Superimposition

30/9/2015 Superimposition

http://esotericastrologer.org/?articles=superimposition2 3/15

by Michael D. Robbins Leave a comment

Superimposiꬅon

(Michael Robbins and Phillip Lindsay)

MR: I believe it is profitable to bring the Sun to the natal ascendant. AABwith a 9 degree Leo natal ascendant should have the Sun advanced to thesame degree, and all planets and points advanced to their respectivedegrees. The Sun sign is a subset of the Ascendant.

PL: OK, I was interested to get this feedback re the presentation of suchcharts. It means then that the outer life can be seen on the inner wheel anthe inner life on the outer wheel.

MR: Unless I am missing something, where we put these wheels on papermakes very little difference. In the Solar Fire format, the natal chart usuallyhas its house cusp degree numbers on the outer wheel, but its planetarypositions on the inner wheel. The solar chart would then, in terms ofappearance, be the outer wheel, or the second circle. I think the importantthing is to consider the natal chart as the subjectively inner wheel.

To the best of my recollection, others when approaching one type ofsuperimposition, simply contrast the natal chart with solar chart using equalhouses, and there is much to be learned thereby. For instance, if my 10degree Aries Sun were at the cusp of the first house, then my Venus in 12Taurus would be in the second house (as contrasted with the 11th houseposition in the natal chart), and my Saturn and Uranus (8+ Gemini and 1+Gemini respectively) would be almost into the third house, etc.(in contrastwith the 11th house position in the natal). SP says that such a solar chartrepresents the personality life in a way which the natal chart does not(though of course he recognizes that the natal chart also has much to sayabout the personality). Of course it would be best to let him speak forhimself in these matters.

The kind of superimposition we are now attempting is something different,and more strange in a way. It has to be researched to make sure we arereally learning something, and not just imposing our expectations on a newchart form.

PL: One major question I have is how relevant are the planetary positions

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after they are all advanced by the same arc as the Sun to the Ascendant?What reasoning can we apply to their significance? For instance in the AABcharts, inner chart (IC) Jupiter is conjunct outer chart (OC) Pluto. ICNeptune conjunct OC Sun.

MR: Certainly the aspects are significant, as probably, also the housepositions. Research will tell whether the sign position means anything.Really, we are looking for geometrical alignments rather than qualitativechanges. But still, these qualitative changes could be considered and theirindications fathomed–as long as we do not read too much in.

PL: If we are to gain some sort of interpretation about the inner and outerlives, the symbolism is certainly apt, but what is the reasoning andrationalisation behind doing such a thing? Unless we have a true occultunderstanding as to why it is relevant, then our understanding will only bemystical at best. Do you know what I am getting at here?

MR: I get it. Perhaps the greatest symbolism is the alignment of thepersonality (Sun) with the soul (indicated at least somewhat by the Asc.) Ifthese two are in alignment (as eventually they must be) what else much be*done* to help bring this about. Maybe other planetary connections causedby the revolution of the wheel by the appropriate arc will tell us of energymanipulations towards which we must strive, or which would appear oncethe Sun and Asc. were in alignment.

PL: My understanding of moving the Sun to the Ascendant is about lookingat the potential of fusion of soul and personality.

MR: Yes, I think so.

PL: So are we to regard all the other planetary arc movements in a similarsymbolical manner? For such an important revelation of being shown theinner and outer lives, how can such a thing be so? Is there some deeperastronomical or other reason behind the symbology?

MR: I think it’s worth a look, for the reason offered above. I don’t think weare going to find the reason in astronomy, unless its some kind of “innerastronomy” represented in rotations and alignments of vehicles. How mustthe personality vehicles “turn” in relation to the turning or rotary motion ofthe causal body. All these vehicles are, after all, turning, which reflectsastronomical cycles. But we are venturing into the unseen here–yet I feelthe key is there to be found.

PL: Another question also arises – is this the type of superimposition towhich DK was referring?



MR: We are going at superimposition in a rather technical way. However,what about superimposing one *quality* upon another *quality*, in anhierarchical manner. What happens if I superimpose love on greed? Orluminous intelligence upon anxiety? In a way, all higher qualities are to besuperimposed hierarchically upon lower qualities. The higher then order andcommand the lower and alter their expression. So I think there is a king ofpsychospiritual superimposition of the meaning of a superior chart upon themeaning and tendencies of a lower chart, with the purpose of correcting ormodifying the expression of the lower.

As one example, what happens if I superimpose (qualitatively) my CancerAsc. on my Aries Sun. Do I not become more sensitive, and more caringabout repercussions. Do I not “push forward” (Aries) with “consideration”Cancer–etc.

I would suggest that as a mental psychological discipline, we simplyexperiment with qualitative superimposition.

Probably, technical, geometrical superimpostion implies a qualitativesuperimposition. Always in superimposition there should behierarchicalization–I think.

MR: I believe the birth chart should always be considered an “inner wheel”.The Sun sign chart (advanced by the arc separating the natal Ascendantfrom the natal Sun, should be considered an outer and secondary wheel, asit is built up around the Sun sign, and therefore refers (initially) to thepersonality. One can also simply consider the Sunsign degree as anAscendant, and find other houses by an equal house system numberingfrom the Sun sign as Ascendant.

PL: When you say ‘built up around the Sun sign’ does that mean then that itequates with point 6. in EA513?

MR: Yes, in a way. Any Suncentered chart is built up around the Sun. This“built up” terminology could indicate simply a solar chart (sunrise chart) ORit could mean that the Sun and its exoteric rulers would simply beconsidered the most important factor in an ordinary chart. The Rising Signwould then be emphasized in a more personal or material sense (as itseems to function in the life of a child–physically)

PL: This is what I am addressing in my ‘reply # 3’ because there seems tobe some confusion about this. Point 6 is talking about ‘adequate for ordinaryhumanity’. If it does relate to point 6, then what does the horoscope forPoint 7 look like? Just with the rising sign which dictates where the sun and



other planets fall by sign and house?

MR: Yes, I believe so. Just an ordinary chart, with the Asc. and its esotericruler emphasized over the Sun and its orthodox ruler. As well, in such achart, if one wanted to emphasize soul indications over personal indications,one could take the obvious step of contrasting the esoteric and exotericrulers of the houses–their signs and aspects. Probably illuminatingindications could be gathered in the ordinary natal chart by contrasting thesign ruler of every planetary position. For instance, if my Mars were inCancer, I might contrast the Moon (its sign, house and aspects) withNeptune (its sign house and aspects). This might show subtle spiritualreinforcements to the Mars position as compared with the more ordinaryassociations.

PL: A. As given in EA5132 – horoscopes “built around the Sun sign” and“built up around the rising sign”.B. As given in EA5960 – Conception chart and birth chart.C. As given in TWM 239 – physical, astral and mental charts:”geometry ofthe individual”. Similar to Point B.

PL: Point A: In EA513 : “6. The horoscope, built around the Sun sign, isadequate for ordinary humanity. The exoteric planets rule and the man liveswithin the limitations of the twelve houses.”

When DK says “The horoscope built around the Sun sign” – does he meanjust an ordinary horoscope? I think we have always assumed that. Is thereanything to be read into “built around the Sun sign” ? Or is he just speakingfiguratively, i.e. that the focus is just on the Sun and exoteric rulers?

MR: As stated in the previous email, solar charts can be used (sun degreeequals Asc. degree); or the ordinary horoscope can be interpreted withspecial attention to the sun degree, sign, house, and aspects, as well as theorthodox ruler of sun–its degree, sign, house and aspects. So he couldmean the solar chart, and also be speaking, as you say, “figuratively”

PL: In EA5132: “7. The horoscope built up around the rising sign, with theesoteric planets ruling, will convey the destiny of the disciple. As I told you,the disciple will later be responding to the influences of the twelve arms ofthe three Crosses as they pour their influences through the esotericplanetary rulers via the twelve houses.”

When DK says “The horoscope built up around the rising sign”, is he talkingfiguratively, i.e. the focus is on the rising sign and esoteric rulers? Or is hetalking about the Sun/Asc arc? Is there anything else to be read into “built



up around the rising sign”?

MR: For me, at this time, I would take the Asc. as the dominating energy (inthe highest place–hierarchically), and subordinate all other energies to it. Itwould then be the central focus, and in a way, would be (figuratively)superimposed upon all other energies in the horoscope.

PL: If he is talking about the Sun/Asc arc, then would that mean we go backand approach point 6 in a different light?

MR: It seems that the use of the Sun/Asc arc is only useful if working with abiwheel configuration. I cannot see the value of interpreting the natal chartby adding the Sun/Asc arc to all factors in the natal chart and treating thisnew chart as if it were an independent chart. I can see the value of arcadding only in relation to the original natal chart (unless we were focussingon internal charts–another matter).

PL: EA512: “8. The Sun sign, governed by the ruling esoteric planets andthe rising sign governed also by the esoteric planets, can both be used incasting the horoscope of the initiate; when superimposed upon each other,the outer life of the initiate in the three worlds and the inner life ofsubjective realisation will appear. This mode of superimposition will be afeature of the new astrology.”

What does this actually mean? Are we on the right track by simply movingthe Sun to Ascendant position?

MR: No easy answer here.1. The simplest way is to compare and contrast the degree, sign, house andaspects of the esoteric ruler of the Asc. with the degree, sign, house andaspects of the esoteric ruler of the Sun sign. As well the Sun and Asc (pureand simple) should be compared and contrasted–as well as the raystransmitted through their signs.

2. However, what about “planet(s)”–in the plural? Because the “outer life ofthe initiate in the three worlds” is mentioned, it looks like the houseposition is very important. House position can also tell much about the innerlife, as anyone will realize when the *esoteric* meanings of the houses areused.

3. One can simply by arc move the Sun to the Asc, but then the rulers allchange, don’t they? This gets back to your question of whether the newsign position of the arcmoved planets counts for anything. Moreover, withthe change in sign of the Sun (as it is arcmoved to the natal Asc), theesoteric ruler of the Asc and the new Sun position become the *same*–not



very good for contrasting.

4. Arcmovement I think is good for showing possible soulpersonalityalignments which can be worked upon and finally achieved. I think it maygive *a* formula for soulpersonality alignment–not *the* formula.

5. If we want to retain the Sun in its original position and all planets in theiroriginal positions, and still have *two* charts to compare and contrast (andthus to superimpose–the greater upon the lesser), then we could againproduce a solar chart. Make the Sun position house number one and createequal houses.

Then, go house by house and position by position always using *esoteric*planets. In my own case, the higher order chart at the first house wouldshow the Neptune esoteric ruler of the Asc. in the third house almostconjunct the IC.

This would be superimposed upon the esoteric ruler of my solarAries Asc–Mercury–and Mercury would be slightly in the 12th H, just four degrees fromthe Asc.

Perhaps then, I could also look for the esoteric ruler of the Neptune sign(Libra), which would be Uranus in Gemini in the 11th, and the esoteric rulerof Mercury in Aries, which is Mercury itself in the 12th of the SolarAsc.chart.

I could then go from house to house doing the same, comparing,contrasting and basically superimposing (or making more important) theesoteric rulers and positions of the natal chart upon the esoteric rulers andpositions of the solar chart.

The advantage of this system would be that the signs would remain as theyactually are. House cusps, house cusp rulers and the position of house cusprulers would all change.

I wonder, when using a solar chart, whether a person should be a*personality*. If the person were not yet a personality, much might belearned by putting the Moon as the first house cusp–I think as Zach hassuggested.

PL: Point 8. seems to be talking about combining the horoscopes of points6. and 7.

If DK is talking about advancing the Sun to the Ascendant in point 7., thenpoints 6, 7 & 8 are respectively: ordinary birth chart, Sun to Asc chart, and



the combination of both? This seems to be critical in understanding thesequence of points given.

MR: When the horoscope is built up around the Rising Sign, I think it is theordinary natal chart, using esoteric rulers.

I suggest the following:1. Point 6 could be, a): the ordinary birth chart emphasizing the exotericrulers, and especially the exoteric ruler of the Sun as well as the Sundegree, sign, house position and aspects; b) the solar chart alone (Sun asthe Asc) using exoteric rulers of all houses. Obviously, the position of theserulers would be different (almost always) than the exoteric rulers of thenatal house cusps.

2. Point 7 could be the normal astrological chart, interpreted by means ofanalyzing the degrees, signs, house positions and aspects of the esoterirulers.

3. Point 8 could be: a) the use of the natal chart with esoteric rulers ofhouse cusps and planetary sign positions, contrasted with the solar chart,also with esoteric rulers of house cusps and planetary sign positions; or, b)a biwheel with the Sun advanced to the Asc. degree and all planetsadvanced by the same arc. I do not, however, think that this is what theTibetan means for us to do in point 8 (as revelatory as this technique maybe). The rulership system is thrown off if we advance the Sun to the Ascand all planets by the Sun/Asc arc. What may be revealed are newalignments (as I have suggested in this document and the two earlier oneswritten today). I think it is very valuable to work in this way, but I am notsure DK means this in point 8.

This gets back to Phillip’s original question about the validity of the newsign positions created by arcadvancement. We would have to very carefulhere. Obviously, the individual was not born with these arcadvancedpositions. Does he have them or not? Qualitatively, I would say “No”.However any strong and tight aspects caused by arcadvancement mightshow desirable relationships between faculties (i.e.,planets) within thehuman energy system. Just as we all strive to make the Sun a subset of theAsc., so we might strive to make a certain planet in the Sunadvanced charta subset of a natal planet.

As I have said before, however, it is possible to superimpose qualitativelywithout the technical arcgeometry.

PL: EA512: “9. When the Sun sign, with the exoteric rulers, is worked out in



a chart, the rising sign with the esoteric rulers is also worked out and thetwo are superimposed upon each other, the problem of the disciple in anyone incarnation will appear.”

This seems to be employing the same techniques as point 8. except thefocus is on different rulerships.

MR: I agree.

PL: Point B:If in Point A the inner/outer charts are the birth and Sun to Asc charts, howis that read differently from the conception and birth charts being the innerand outer charts?

MR: When dealing with the contrast between the conception chart and birthchart (forgetting the animation chart for the moment), I would prefer tokeep them distinct.

Yes, something might be learned by bringing the natal chart Sun (the natalchart now being the *inferior chart*) to the conception Asc. and advancingall planets accordingly, but the technique seems rather too complicated, ortoo technical.

I would simply go house by house–checking:1. the esoteric ruler of all houses in the conception chart with the esotericrulers of all houses of the natal chart. This would be for initiates of the firstthree degrees, and especially for those of the second and third degree.

2. the esoteric ruler of all houses in the conception chart with the*exoteric* rulers of all houses of the natal chart. This would be for aspirantsand disciples.

3. Perhaps the exoteric rulers of the conception chart houses could be usedfor average man–but it still remains to be shown how much the averageman responds to his conception chart (which, according to theory) is aUranian chart. The birth chart with exoteric rulers would be far moreuseable for the average man, I think.

4. One other interesting possibility would be to forget the Sun signaltogether when dealing with conception/natal comparisons, and advancethe natal Asc. to the conception Asc. It is my opinion that a *higher order*of souldirective would be shown by the conception Asc. than is shown atthe natal Asc.

Of course, one must make sure that one has a legitmate conception chart;



one that is rectified against life events (perhaps life events of a morepsychological nature–though outer events, too, seem to show in theconception and animation charts.

I recommend Niklas’ thoughts on these matters, as he has investigated thesubject more than I.

In my own case, for instance, I am working with a Leo Asc. in theconception chart, and also a Leo Asc in the animation chart. The birth chartshows a Cancer Asc (which is correct as far as my physical birth isconcerned).

I must ask myself about the spiritual importance of that Leo conceptionAsc. Is it hierarchically superior to my Cancer Asc.? In many ways, I wouldsay “Yes”. All my major work has been on theories of *Identity*–the raybooks and also the Infinitization of Selfhood. Even my work in astrology isabout *Identity*. Further, the astrological operas have a lot of connectionwith the stage and Leo.

But it is for everyone to decide whether there is any value in conceptioncharts, and whether they learn something interiorly about themselves fromtheir use. Then each person might ask, how would my life be different if mynatal chart were subordinated to my conception chart. This would be apsychospiritual superimposition, and would have, I think, as much validityas the more technical methods upon which we are now working–not todiscount the possible revelatory nature of the latter.

There are many implications when considering the Sun, Moon Asc.relationships which produce the conception chart. The Moon position of thenatal chart becomes all important in determining the Asc. of the conceptionchart.

What is most important is not to get lost in technique. The new astrology isan intuitive astrology, using the various techniques as springboards forinsight. I fear getting lost in the trees–I want to see the forest as a whole.

Still, experimentation is needed. I suggest that if we want to know thevalue of any of these techniques, we study our own charts and share anypsychospiritual revelations that may have come with the group. If therevelation could have been seen in an easier way, then the Law of Economyis against the great labor required to produce these additional charts. If,however, new insights appear (which did not appear in any other way) theywe know that our labors have been worthwhile.

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Superimposition