Stanford Universityweb.stanford.edu/dept/law/mvn/pdf/1-Volume_2_Part_2_of_2.pdf· · · · · · · · · ·· No. 137, Original · · · · ·· IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED

· · · · · · · · · ·· No. 137, Original·· · · ·· IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES·· · · · ·· VOLUME 2, PART 2 of 2, OF 25 VOLUMES.·· · · · · · · TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL PROCEEDINGS··_______________________________________________________·· · · · · · · · · · · STATE OF MONTANA· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Plaintiff,· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·· V.·· · · · · · · · · · · STATE OF WYOMING·· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and·· · · · · · · · ·· STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Defendants.·_______________________________________________________···· · · · BEFORE THE HONORABLE BARTON H. THOMPSON, JR.· · · · · · · · · · ·· Special Master· · · · · · · · · · Stanford, California···· · · · · James F. Battin United States Courthouse· · · · · · · · ·· 2601 2nd Avenue North· · · · · · · · · Billings, Montana 59101· · · · · · · 1:18, Thursday, October 17, 2013····· · · · · · · · · Vonni R. Bray, RPR, CRR· · · · · · · · · · · · P.O. Box 125· · · · · · · · · · · Laurel, MT 59044· · · · · · · · · · (406) 670-9533 Cell· · · · · · · · · ·· (888) 277-9372 Fax· · · · · · · · · · [email protected]··· · · ·· Proceedings recorded by machine shorthand·· Transcript produced by computer-assisted transcription·

Page 348

· · · · · · · · · · · · APPEARANCES·1··· ··FOR PLAINTIFF STATE OF MONTANA:·2··· ·· · · · · · Mr. John B. Draper, Special Assistant AG·3·· · · · · · Montgomery & Andrews· ·· · · · · · 325 Paseo de Peralta, 87501·4·· · · · · · P.O. Box 2307· ·· · · · · · Santa Fe, NM 87504-2307·5·· · · · · · Telephone: (505) 986-2525 Fax: (505) 982-4289· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]·6··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Jeffrey J. Wechsler, Special Assistant AG·7·· · · · · · Montgomery & Andrews· ·· · · · · · 325 Paseo de Peralta, 87501·8·· · · · · · P.O. Box 2307· ·· · · · · · Santa Fe, NM 87504-2307·9·· · · · · · Telephone: (505) 986-2637 Fax: (505) 982-4289· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Cory Swanson11·· · · · · · Deputy Attorney General· ·· · · · · · 602 Sanders12·· · · · · · P.O. Box 201401· ·· · · · · · Helena, MT 5962413·· · · · · · Telephone: (406) 444-4774 Fax: (406) 444-3549· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]··· ·· · · · · · Ms. Anne Winfield Yates15·· · · · · · DNRC Chief Legal Counsel· ·· · · · · · 1625 Eleventh Avenue16·· · · · · · P.O. Box 201601· ·· · · · · · Helena, MT 59620-160117·· · · · · · Telephone: (406) 444-0503 Fax: (406) 444-2684· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Kevin R. Peterson19·· · · · · · DNRC Legal Counsel· ·· · · · · · 1625 Eleventh Avenue20·· · · · · · P.O. Box 201601· ·· · · · · · Helena MT 59620-160121·· · · · · · Telephone: (406) 444-5785 Fax: (406) 444-2684· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Tim Fox23·· · · · · · MT Attorney General· ·· · · · · · P.O. Box 20140124·· · · · · · Helena, MT 59620-1401· ·· · · · · · Telephone: (406) 444-2026 Fax: (406) 444-354925·

Bray Reporting - (406) 670-9533

Page 349

· · · · · · · · ·· APPEARANCES CONTINUED·1··· ··FOR DEFENDANT STATE OF WYOMING:·2··· ·· · · · · · Mr. James C. Kaste·3·· · · · · · Water & Natural Resources Division· ·· · · · · · Sr. Assistant Attorney General·4·· · · · · · 123 Capitol Building· ·· · · · · · Cheyenne, WY 82002·5·· · · · · · Telephone: (307) 777-3535 Fax: (307) 777-3542· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]·6··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Chris Brown·7·· · · · · · Water & Natural Resources Division· ·· · · · · · Sr. Assistant Attorney General·8·· · · · · · 123 Capitol Building· ·· · · · · · Cheyenne, WY 82002·9·· · · · · · Telephone: (307) 777-3406 Fax: (307) 777-3542· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Andrew J. Kuhlmann11·· · · · · · Water & Natural Resources Division· ·· · · · · · Assistant Attorney General12·· · · · · · 123 Capitol Building· ·· · · · · · Cheyenne, WY 8200213·· · · · · · Telephone: (307) 777-3537 Fax: (307) 777-3542· ·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]··· ·· · · · · · Mr. Peter J. Michael15·· · · · · · WY Attorney General· ·· · · · · · State Capitol Building16·· · · · · · Cheyenne, WY 82001· ·· · · · · · Telephone: (307) 777-7841 Fax: (307) 777-354217··· ··18··· ··FOR DEFENDANT STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA:19··· ·· · · · · · Ms. Jennifer L. Verleger20·· · · · · · Assistant Attorney General· ·· · · · · · 500 North 9th Street21·· · · · · · Bismarck, ND 58501-4509· ·· · · · · · Telephone: (701) 328-3640 Fax: (701) 328-430022·· · · · · · E-mail: [email protected]· ··23··· ··24··· ··25·


Page 350

· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· INDEX·1··· ·· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · VOLUME· ··PAGE·2··· ··Proceedings ................................2· · ··352·3··Mr. Dalby Offered as Expert Witness ........2· · ··386· ··Certificate of the Court Reporter ..........2· · ··465·4··· ···5··· ···6··· ·· · · · · · · · · ·· INDEX TO WITNESSES·7··· ··FOR THE PLAINTIFF:· · · · · · · · · · ··VOLUME· ··PAGE·8··· ··DALE BOOK (CONT.)·9··· ··Cross-Examination Cont. by Mr. Kaste .......2· · ··35210··Examination by the Special Master ..........2· · ··362· ··Redirect Examination by Mr. Draper .........2· · ··36911··Further Examination by the Special Master ..2· · ··372· ··12··· ··CHARLES DALBY13··· ··Direct Examination by Mr. Swanson ..........2· · ··37514··Examination by the Special Master ..........2· · ··421· ··Redirect Examination by Mr. Swanson ........2· · ··42515··Cross-Examination by Mr. Kaste .............2· · ··431· ··Further Redirect by Mr. Swanson ............2· · ··44016··· ··TIMOTHY DAVIS17··· ··Direct Examination by Mr. Wechsler .........2· · ··44418··· ··19··· ··20··· ··21··· ··22··· ··23··· ··24··· ··25·


Page 351

· · · · · · · · · ·· INDEX TO EXHIBITS·1··· ··EXHIBIT· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·VOLUME· ··PAGE·2··· ··· M011· ·Charles Dalby Expert Report and ....2· · ··391·3·· · · · · Resume· ···4··· M115· ·Memo from Chuck Dalby to Larry .....2· · ··415· ·· · · · · Marshall Dated February 24, 1989·5··· ··· M193· ·Memo - Attached Maps - Charts - ....2· · ··419·6·· · · · · Memoranda - 08-08-2006 - Chuck· ·· · · · · Dalby to Rich Moy (MT01408-01432)·7··· ··· M230· ·Water Rights in Montana (April .....2· · ··455·8·· · · · · 2012)· ···9··· W163· ·Email from Chuck Dalby to Sue ......2· · ··426· ·· · · · · Lowry Re: Postpone Phone Call10·· · · · · until 11 (WY28512-28514)· ··11··· W168· ·Email from Chuck Dalby to ..........2· · ··430· ·· · · · · Patrick Tyrrell Re: Draft of12·· · · · · Tongue River Monitoring Support· ·· · · · · Letter (WY30935-30936)13··· ··14··· ··15··· ··16··· ··17··· ··18··· ··19··· ··20··· ··21··· ··22··· ··23··· ··24··· ··25·


Cross Examination Cont. by Mr. KasteDALE BOOK - October 17, 2013

Page 352

· · · · ·· THURSDAY, OCTOBER 17, 2013, 1:18 P.M.·1·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Everyone can be·2·

·seated except Mr. Kaste.·3·

· · · · · · So, Mr. Kaste, you want to continue your·4·

·cross-examination?·5·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Yeah.··Thank you.·6·

· · · · · · · · · ·· DALE BOOK (CONT.),·7·

·having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:·8·

· · · · · · · ·· CROSS-EXAMINATION (Cont.)·9·

·BY MR. KASTE:10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Book, I told you before we left we're11·

·going to move into a little bit of a discussion about12·

·your findings with regard to post-1950 use in Wyoming.13·

·And if I understand right, I think that in your14·

·original assessment, you assumed that the source of15·

·supply for the various rights you were looking at was16·

·the source identified in the permitted right; is that17·

·fair?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Subsequently, you had an opportunity to20·

·review Mr. Fritz's report, take in the information from21·

·that report.··And I believe you agreed with him on22·

·certain of these parcels that you identified, that the23·

·source of supply was either different or that the lands24·

·were not irrigated; correct?25·



Page 353

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, that's correct.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··I just want to show one real fast, if·2·

·that's all right.··I'm going to put on the screen a·3·

·picture from Wyoming Exhibit W-2.··And you've seen that·4·

·picture before; correct?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·I believe I have.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·And is that a picture of the Wilson parcel·7·

·that you identified in your original report?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Just give me a second.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Sure.10·

· · · · · · MR. DRAPER:··Where does that picture appear11·

·in Exhibit W-2?12·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··It is unpaginated, but the13·

·Bates -- and it's towards the end -- the Bates number14·

·for it is WY043217.15·

· · · · · · MR. DRAPER:··Thank you.16·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Yes, sir, the question?17·

·BY MR. KASTE:18·

· · ·· Q.· ·This is the Wilson parcel that you identified19·

·in your original report?20·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·As one of the post-1950 acreages?··That was22·

·the focus of your attention; right?23·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··And this photo was taken25·



Page 354

·July 22nd, 2006?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·That's correct.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··And after reviewing this photo and·3·

·some additional information, this is one of the parcels·4·

·that you changed your assessment of irrigation from·5·

·your original report to your rebuttal; correct?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·And your rebuttal report marked it down as·8·

·zero irrigation?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·And looking at the photo, not really much11·

·dispute about that one; right?12·

· · ·· A.· ·That's correct.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··If I understand right, your14·

·original work to identify parcels that had been15·

·irrigated relied on the metric and aerial photographs;16·

·is that correct?17·

· · ·· A.· ·And the digitized irrigated area coverage18·

·that we were using from the basin plan as we had19·

·enhanced it, or supplemented is the better word.··Those20·

·three sources of information.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·And from those three sources of information,22·

·originally you had determined this parcel was irrigated23·

·in 2006?24·

· · ·· A.· ·I had determined that this permit was within25·



Page 355

·a larger parcel that was classified as irrigated.··So I·1·

·didn't have the specific permit delineation when I did·2·

·that original work.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··But we know that it's fairly not·4·

·irrigated in 2006; right?·5·


· · ·· Q.· ·Now, some of the other post-1950 parcels --·7·

·maybe we ought to do this.··If you'd look at Figure 1·8·

·in your rebuttal report.·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Figure 1 is a map of the Tongue River Basin.11·

·And on that map is representation of each of the12·

·parcels that remain identified as irrigated in your13·

·rebuttal analysis; is that fair?14·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·How many parcels are there?16·

· · ·· A.· ·I obtained a count from tables 2-A and 2-B of17·

·16 if you include the Tongue, the Tongue tributaries,18·

·and Prairie Dog Creek.··I have 16 that I still have19·

·irrigated area for.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·So there are 16 parcels in those drainages21·

·that you've identified where there was post-1950 use in22·

·Wyoming in 2004 and 2006?23·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··And how many acres does that end25·



Page 356

·up adding up to for those 16 parcels?··I think it's on·1·

·table 3, but I'm not sure which one of the numbers I'm·2·

·looking at.·3·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Table 3 of the June report?·4·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Yes.·5·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Yes, 532 acres.·6·

·BY MR. KASTE:·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··And if I remember right, from our·8·

·discussion earlier, you identified 4000 acres in·9·

·Montana with post-1950 water rights?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··That's the Appendix G tabulation.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··One of the things that I think12·

·you and Mr. Fritz have a little bit of a continuing13·

·disagreement on is Kearney Lake water on some of the14·

·parcels that you've identified on Prairie Dog Creek.15·

·You agree with me that in Mr. Fritz's report, most,16·

·except for the Trembath right, the remaining rights17·

·within the Koltiska pumps and Rose and Pilch, Mr. Fritz18·

·has identified those as zero in his report?19·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, that's correct.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·And if I kind of understand your rationale21·

·for not agreeing that those are zero, it's that you22·

·couldn't confirm or deny, I guess, that those parcels23·

·were irrigated with water from Kearney Lake?24·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I think that's a fair characterization.25·



Page 357

· · ·· Q.· ·So where you were not able to make that·1·

·determination with certainty, you assumed that they·2·

·received direct flow water?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·I think it's better stated that my opinion is·4·

·it's likely that there was some direct flow water used·5·

·on those parcels because of reservoir operations.··The·6·

·reservoir operations would occur later in the season.·7·

·And so it's very unlikely that reservoir water was·8·

·actually delivered throughout the entire season on·9·

·those parcels.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·So it's a mixture of -- the irrigation that11·

·occurred on those parcels in 2004 and 2006 is a mixture12·

·of Kearney Lake water and direct flow, and you're not13·

·able to differentiate the exact values?14·

· · ·· A.· ·It's possible.··If the records are sufficient15·

·to conclude the reservoir water was actually released16·

·and delivered to those parcels, and I haven't seen17·

·those records that establish that, then it would be an18·

·issue of how much water from each source.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you know what the natural flow is in20·

·Prairie Dog Creek?21·

· · ·· A.· ·Well, natural flow in Prairie Dog Creek is a22·

·combination of runoff and return flows from irrigation.23·

·As you get lower in the basin, there's more return flow24·

·in the basin.··And that water would all be available25·



Page 358

·for appropriation and diversion.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·One of the things that you relied on in your·2·

·report and forming your opinions is Montana Exhibit 23,·3·

·the Prairie Dog Creek watershed master plan; is that·4·

·correct?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·And you agree with me that in that master·7·

·plan it says that the headwaters of Prairie Dog Creek·8·

·lie at a small spring producing less than 1 cubic feet·9·

·per second of flow?10·

· · ·· A.· ·I'm not familiar with that statement.··I11·

·don't recall that statement.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·You don't recall that statement?··Okay.··If I13·

·understand it, however, in your analysis, or when we14·

·get to the bottom line and you put numbers to the15·

·irrigation on these parcels, you put the full amount as16·

·if it was direct flow rather than Kearney Lake water;17·

·correct?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·So you gave Montana the benefit of the doubt20·

·on that one rather than Wyoming; is that fair?21·

· · ·· A.· ·The -- my conclusion is I didn't have22·

·sufficient information to determine whether, and to23·

·what extent, storage water had been applied on any24·

·specific tracts in Prairie Dog Creek.25·



Page 359

· · ·· Q.· ·Let's look again real quick at Appendix A in·1·

·your rebuttal report.··And, again, that differentiates·2·

·between pre-1950 irrigation in Montana and post-1950;·3·

·correct?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··So let's look at page 1.··There·6·

·are green parcels identified on page 1 that represent·7·

·post-1950 irrigation; correct?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··And I'm curious, can you say whether10·

·those parcels were or were not receiving water on11·

·May 18th, 2004?12·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I can't say that.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··And same question with regard to14·

·July 28th, 2006.15·

· · ·· A.· ·Not with respect to any individual parcel,16·

·no, I can't say that.··I mean, I can conclude from this17·

·set of maps that irrigation has been occurring within18·

·the period of years that I specified, 2005 through19·

·2011.··And most of these parcels showed up with20·

·irrigation in each of those years.··As to whether water21·

·was physically being diverted on any specific day or22·

·not, I can't say.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·But if I understand your answer correctly, in24·

·your opinion, it's more likely than not, say, in the25·



Page 360

·year 2006, many of these parcels identified in green on·1·

·Appendix A were receiving water?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·Would the same be true for 2004?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I believe so.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·Let's look at table 3 in your rebuttal·6·

·report.··If I understand correctly, as we get down to·7·

·the summary portion of this table, we see values for·8·

·the various kinds of depletions that you've identified·9·

·for each of the four years in which you've provided a10·

·quantification; correct?11·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··And for the Wagner and 5-mile13·

·values, what you did in 2001 and 2002 was to average14·

·the amounts that you found in 2004 and 2006; correct?15·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·And the difference in values at Wagner 5-mile17·

·in 2004 and 2006 is a little over 200 acre-feet; right?18·


· · ·· Q.· ·Out of 551 and 757 respectively?20·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··And you did sort of the same process22·

·with regard to the post-1950 acreage.··You averaged the23·

·values from 2004 and 2006 and placed that average into24·

·your table for '01 and '02; correct?25·



Page 361

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And the difference that you found for the·2·

·post-1950 acreage in '04 and '06 was 150ish?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, that's correct.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·Out of respectively 327 and 473 acre-feet;·5·

·correct?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·And the Special Master earlier already asked·8·

·you this question, but this table reflects an annual·9·

·evaluation; correct?··These values represent the year?10·


· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··And your analysis doesn't depend12·

·one way or the other on the date when any particular13·

·call may be made by Montana on Wyoming; correct?14·

· · ·· A.· ·No, this analysis does not; that's correct.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·So is it fair for me to look at table 3 and16·

·comfortably say, I cannot figure out, based on this17·

·table, what amount of water you've identified was used18·

·in Wyoming after any specific date?19·

· · ·· A.· ·I think, based on the analysis that I did and20·

·the types of depletions represented here, if it was21·

·necessary to have that type of information, you could22·

·make some judgments.··For example, reservoir storage23·

·was occurring before the runoff; irrigation depletions24·

·are during the irrigation season.··So there are some25·


Examination by the Special MasterDALE BOOK - October 17, 2013

Page 362

·things you could discern from this.··It's probably too·1·

·simple to say you don't have any information.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·So we could infer, based on what we know·3·

·about when storage occurs, that by July 28th, storage·4·

·is probably over in Wyoming?·5·


· · ·· Q.· ·And if we wanted to, if we picked a·7·

·particular date, we could go to the reservoir, and we·8·

·could ascertain its actual condition and determine·9·

·whether or not it was full or not on that date;10·

·correct?11·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I believe that's right.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·But that wasn't part of your analysis in this13·

·case?14·

· · ·· A.· ·That's correct.··It was not.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·I think that's all I have for you, Mr. Book.16·

·Thank you very much for your time.17·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··So before you actually18·

·finish your cross-examination, Mr. Kaste, I actually19·

·have a couple questions also for the witness and want20·

·to give you an opportunity to ask any other questions21·

·if you wanted to.22·

· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION23·

·BY SPECIAL MASTER:24·

· · ·· Q.· ·So one of the questions I had was -- so for25·



Page 363

·various years, you've relied upon photographs depending·1·

·on the particular region we're talking about, Wyoming·2·

·or Montana, it would be 2005, 2006, 2009, and, I think·3·

·2011.··Is there any indication in the reports to when·4·

·those photos were taken?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·I don't recall if I listed dates.··That·6·

·information is certainly available.··We always have the·7·

·documentation of when photos are taken.··Generally,·8·

·they're taken sometime during the irrigation season·9·

·between May and October.··I don't recall specifically10·

·in this situation whether I actually published dates.11·

·Some of the dates may be -- some of the photos may have12·

·the dates on the figure.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··But right now you don't know what14·

·those dates are?15·

· · ·· A.· ·No, not off the top of my head, I don't.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Then turning to your January report on17·

·page 10, Mr. Kaste asked you about the statement18·

·halfway down on the end of the last bullet, that a flow19·

·of 10 CFS was assumed to be indivertible at the20·

·headgate.··And could you explain to me why you made21·

·that assumption?22·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··It's a fairly large canal.··It's a23·

·fairly large channel with the dam across the canal.24·

·And the typical operations of a diversion of that size,25·



Page 364

·it's unlikely that it would be 100 percent efficient in·1·

·sweeping the stream, is the terminology I use.·2·

· · · · · · So there would be some low flow amount that·3·

·would -- operational waste, if you want to call it·4·

·that, or operational flow at the headgate that would be·5·

·left in the river.··So as I was calculating these down·6·

·to the nearest CFS and accounting for the amount of·7·

·water coming in at the top of the river and the gains·8·

·and the return flows, I also considered that it would·9·

·not be physically possible to divert down to a rate of10·

·zero at the headgate.11·

· · · · · · So 10 is what I would consider to be a12·

·nominal rate of flow in a channel at a diversion dam13·

·like this.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·And, again, so I have a better understanding15·

·of this, is that because you're diverting from the side16·

·of the river and, therefore, inevitably some is going17·

·to go down the main stem of the river?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··It's just -- it would be unusual to19·

·totally dry up a stream of this size, a headgate this20·

·wide.··I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen.··But21·

·typically there will be some operational flow.··And so22·

·that was part of the calculation of the demand.··It was23·

·not to take the river to zero but to take it down to a24·

·very low discharge.25·



Page 365

· · ·· Q.· ·And when would you have zero?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·Well, if you were sweeping the stream, if all·2·

·of the flow in the river was making its way into the·3·

·headgate channel.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·So you could basically be steering the entire·5·

·river into that channel?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, if that's possible.··I didn't do a·7·

·detailed survey of the structure to see whether it was·8·

·physically possible to take it down to zero.··You have·9·

·gates involved and side channels.··And there's some10·

·operational bypass.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then if you look at page 11 -- and this12·

·is the table that Mr. Kaste asked you about earlier13·

·that shows the estimated direct flow demands for14·

·pre-1950 uses in Montana at the state line.··And I had15·

·asked you about this table also.16·

· · · · · · So there is no comparable equivalent to this17·

·table based on the various adjustments that you made in18·

·the pre-1950 acreage in your June report?19·


· · ·· Q.· ·And why did you not do another?21·

· · ·· A.· ·This analysis is based on the level of water22·

·rights, direct flow water rights that are valid for the23·

·state.··And if the acreage from year to year varies or24·

·is less, that doesn't necessarily translate into a25·



Page 366

·reduction in a entitlement to a direct flow water·1·

·right.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·And if somebody were -- if some guy wanted to·3·

·actually look to see what this table would look like·4·

·based on the pre-1950 acreage which you summarize in·5·

·your June report as having been irrigated in a·6·

·particular year -- so this is the table that's on page·7·

·16 -- would one simply use the same calculations you·8·

·did before?··In other words, you would take the water·9·

·duty and multiply them by the number of acres shown?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, that could be done.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Would that be a reasonable thing to do?12·

· · ·· A.· ·It would start to get away a little bit from13·

·the water rights.··The analysis was to evaluate the14·

·pre-1950 acreage and convert that to a water right.15·

·And I was using the duty of water from the Miles City16·

·Decree as the measure of that water right.··Another17·

·alternative would be to go into the tabulations from18·

·the adjudication and extract water rights from that.··I19·

·did not do that.··I used the 1 to 40.20·

· · · · · · So when you start looking at a little less21·

·acreage being irrigated at any year, what you're22·

·starting to do, then, is looking at reductions in water23·

·rights.··And that may not be appropriate.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··And I understood from what you earlier25·



Page 367

·told Mr. Kaste -- and I need to find the correct table,·1·

·which I forgot to mark.··What I am looking for -- and I·2·

·will appreciate anyone's help on this -- is the table·3·

·you were talking about, Mr. Kaste, that actually showed·4·

·the use of water from the -- or the diversions through·5·

·the T & Y Canal.·6·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··I believe it's E10 to the·7·

·original report.·8·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··It was E10?·9·


· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··So I thought I understood earlier, but11·

·now I need to go back to the question of how you came12·

·up with the direct flow demand percentages that are13·

·shown in E13.··These are the ones in the middle14·

·showing, for example, 55 percent in May, 90 percent in15·

·June.16·

· · · · · · So, for example, on the 55 percent direct17·

·flow demand percent, how did you calculate that?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, those are approximations from this19·

·pattern.··So I started out assuming that July and20·

·August were going to be at the total direct flow water21·

·right, and I think that's supported by the data.··There22·

·are several years where diversions actually occurred at23·

·the fall flow rate.··And that would be an August and24·

·July event.··And then if you look at this curve, June25·



Page 368

·and September is slightly less than the peak months of·1·

·July and August.··And then May was down about halfway.·2·

·Actually, May is almost exactly halfway down.··So·3·

·that's the basis for the numbers.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·And, again, for example, on the 55 percent?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·Did you take some type of an average of what·7·

·was being diverted from the T & Y Canal in May and then·8·

·divide it by 187.5?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I did not.··It's based on the approximate10·

·ratios of diversions here from the curve and in the11·

·bottom line averages.··So if you're comparing May to12·

·July, it's about half.··June is about 90 percent.··And13·

·so that's as close as I got with that.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·So when you say you did an estimate based on15·

·the curve, that's the curve in Appendix E10?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then finally, you probably pointed this18·

·out earlier, but if you could just tell me again.··For19·

·the various parcels of land in Wyoming that you discuss20·

·at pages 6 to 11 of your rebuttal report, the June21·

·report, is there a table that actually shows the amount22·

·of acreage for each of those parcels?··Or do you have23·

·to look at the descriptions?24·

· · ·· A.· ·The answer is there is a table.··It's table25·


Redirect Examination by Mr. DraperDALE BOOK - October 17, 2013

Page 369

·2A and 2B.··And so if you look on table 2A on page 25,·1·

·there is a column labeled irrigated SWE revised.··Those·2·

·are in acres.··That's acreage.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Thank you.··I just wanted to make·4·

·sure.·5·

· · · · · · Okay.··Mr. Kaste.·6·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··I don't know if I have any more·7·

·questions of you.··I think we'll have Mr. Muggli here·8·

·who can testify whether or not the T & Y Canal can or·9·

·cannot take the entire river.··And I'm probably the10·

·most appropriate person to ask that question of since11·

·it's his diversion.12·

· · · · · · Thank you.13·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Thank you, Mr. Kaste.14·

· · · · · · So, Mr. Draper, any redirect?15·

· · · · · · MR. DRAPER:··Yes, Your Honor.··Thank you.16·

· · · · · · · · · · REDIRECT EXAMINATION17·

·BY MR. DRAPER:18·

· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Book, the Master was just asking you19·

·about the question of whether you changed your direct20·

·flow determinations, state line direct flow21·

·determinations based on the analysis you did in22·

·connection with your rebuttal report.··Would you23·

·explain why you did not find it necessary to make a24·

·change with regard to the direct flow requirements that25·



Page 370

·you had determined --·1·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··This was a water rights based analysis.·2·

·So my tabulation of the pre-1950 water rights in·3·

·Montana, which is included in table 4, indicated to me·4·

·that the -- first of all, that the acreage for pre-1950·5·

·water rights was higher than the acreage that had been·6·

·documented in the surveys in the 1940s as being·7·

·irrigated at that time and, further, that the acreage·8·

·associated with pre-1950 water rights is larger than·9·

·the acreage that was in the 1914 Miles City Decree,10·

·which is not surprising.··Because that would have11·

·established the rights as of 1914.12·

· · · · · · And so there was intervening years after13·

·that.··When you look at the amount of acreage and the14·

·amount of the direct flow water rights from the15·

·tabulation that I prepared, both of those exceeded the16·

·acreage and the direct flow water rights that I had17·

·assumed in my demand analysis.··At the time I prepared18·

·my demand analysis, it was representative of 195019·

·conditions based on actual conditions on the river.20·

· · · · · · Also, the comparison of actual irrigated area21·

·to water rights -- or permitted irrigated area is22·

·generally less.··That occurs in both states, Wyoming23·

·and Montana, as I described earlier this morning.··If24·

·you compare the water rights in Wyoming with the actual25·



Page 371

·irrigated area, it's something around 70 percent.··And·1·

·the ratios here were approximately 80 percent when I·2·

·compared the actual irrigated area to the permitted·3·

·area under the tabulation of water rights.·4·

· · · · · · That led me to believe -- or conclude that it·5·

·wouldn't be appropriate to start reducing direct flow·6·

·water rights based on some lesser amount of acreage·7·

·being documented from year to year in the field.··The·8·

·situation could be that particular farms have water·9·

·rights for a larger acreage.··And what you will find is10·

·the actual acreage on a given farm in any given year11·

·would be less.··And that's not surprising.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·And isn't it true that the acreage that you13·

·used as a basis for your direct flow analysis is less14·

·than the amounts that have been adjudicated in Montana?15·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Let me just ask you to compare it in your17·

·rebuttal report at page 28 and 29.··You have table 4A.18·

·And if you would compare that tabulation of acreages to19·

·the acreage that's shown in your January report in20·

·Appendix E6 at page 273.··If you compare those two21·

·tables, table 4A in your rebuttal report at page 28 and22·

·29, and Appendix E6 in your original report at page23·

·273.24·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··To compare the numbers, you would add25·


Further Examination by the Special MasterDALE BOOK - October 17, 2013

Page 372

·the T & Y Canal acreage of 9,600 to the bottom line·1·

·total for rights above that of 11,500.··That would give·2·

·you approximately 21,000 acres for water rights.··And·3·

·you can compare that to the figure on E6 of 19,983.·4·

·Those would be the comparable numbers.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what does that tell us about the acreage·6·

·that you used as the basis for your direct flow·7·

·analysis?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·That it's less than the currently documented·9·

·water right acreages for pre-1950 water rights in10·

·Montana.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Thank you.··No further questions.12·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··I have just, like,13·

·two more questions, and I think I'll be finished also.14·

· · · · · · · · · · FURTHER EXAMINATION15·


· · ·· Q.· ·So on all -- regarding the table, again, on17·

·page 11 of your original report, this is, again, the18·

·estimated direct flow demands from the pre-1950 uses in19·

·Montana.20·

· · · · · · So if -- do I understand you correctly that21·

·the purpose of this table is really to estimate the22·

·amount of water that the pre-1950 users can demand23·

·under their permits?24·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.25·



Page 373

· · ·· Q.· ·So if that is true, then why adjust the May·1·

·to June, and September numbers?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Because based on the historic record, and in·3·

·my experience with diversions, the -- less would be·4·

·diverted from -- depending on parts of the season.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·So is it correct that this particular table·6·

·is sort of part what pre-1950 users can demand and part·7·

·what they actually were likely to demand?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·But it's neither one nor the other?10·


· · ·· Q.· ·And then the other question I have with12·

·respect to this particular table -- so it shows the13·

·numbers in cubic feet per second or CFS.··And we14·

·discussed earlier how you actually calculated the15·

·direct flow demands for the pre-1950 acreage upstream16·

·from the T & Y Canal.17·

· · · · · · For the purposes of the direct flow demands18·

·for the T & Y Canal, did you take the 187.5 CFS that19·

·they had a decree for, or did you take a different20·

·number?21·

· · ·· A.· ·I applied the percentages to that as well,22·

·the monthly percentages that I used.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··So for July and August, you would have24·

·taken the 187.5?25·



Page 374

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then for the other months, you would have·2·

·came forward with your percentages?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Thank you.··Those are my questions.·5·

· · · · · · MR. DRAPER:··Nothing further for me, Your·6·

·Honor.·7·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Thank you very much.·8·

· · · · · · So, Mr. Book, you can be excused.·9·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Glad to hear that.10·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Thank you very much.11·

· · · · · · Mr. Draper, are you ready to call your next12·

·witness?13·

· · · · · · MR. DRAPER:··Yes, Your Honor.··Our next14·

·witness will be Chuck Dalby.··And the examination will15·

·be conducted by Mr. Swanson.16·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Thank you.17·

· · · · · · (Charles Dalby sworn.)18·

· · · · · · THE CLERK:··Please have a seat.··And if you'd19·

·state your name and spell it for the record when you're20·

·seated.21·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··All right.22·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Can you switch back to our23·

·feed, please?24·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I'm sorry.··I was moving my25·


CHARLES DALBY - October 17, 2013Direct Examination by Mr. Swanson

Page 375

·various papers.··Did you spell your name yet?·1·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··No, I haven't.·2·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.·3·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··All right, Your Honor.··We're·4·

·ready.·5·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Thank you very much,·6·

·Mr. Swanson.·7·

· · · · · · So, Mr. Dalby, if you could start out by·8·

·spelling your name.·9·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··I will.··My name is Charles10·

·Elliott Dalby, C-h-a-r-l-e-s E-l-l-i-o-t-t D-a-l-b, as11·

·in boy, y.··I go by the name of Chuck.12·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Thank you very much,13·

·Mr. Dalby, and good afternoon.14·

· · · · · · So, Mr. Swanson.15·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Thank you, Your Honor.16·

· · · · · · · · · · ·· CHARLES DALBY,17·

·having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:18·

· · · · · · · · · ·· DIRECT EXAMINATION19·

·BY MR. SWANSON:20·

· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, what is your current21·

·occupation?22·

· · ·· A.· ·My current occupation is surface water23·

·hydrologist for the State of Montana Department of24·

·Natural Resources and Conservation.25·



Page 376

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you have the same professional address as·1·

·Director Tubbs testified to yesterday?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I do.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·And how long have you been in your position·4·

·of surface water hydrologist?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Twenty-eight years.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what bureau is that within the DNRC?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·I work in the Water Management Bureau of the·8·

·Water Resources Division.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·So who is your boss, your immediate boss?10·

· · ·· A.· ·My immediate supervisor is Paul Azevedo,11·

·A-z-e-v-e-d-o.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then, he would report to Tim Davis as the13·

·Water Resource Division administrator?14·


· · ·· Q.· ·So can you tell us what your duties are as16·

·the surface water hydrologist?17·

· · ·· A.· ·I primarily collect and analyze surface water18·

·hydrology data, prepare that information in a variety19·

·of ways to create what I hope is policy-relevant20·

·science through the department.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can we turn to --22·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··And I'm not admitting this yet,23·

·Your Honor.··I will in a minute.24·

·25·



Page 377

·BY MR. SWANSON:·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·-- but Exhibit Montana 11.··And I just want·2·

·to have you flip to the back of that.··Have you·3·

·prepared a résumé of your professional experience, and·4·

·is that the document we see at the end of M11?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it is.··I have prepared it.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·Is it accurate, to the best of your·7·

·knowledge?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Could you just begin by summarizing your10·

·professional education, postsecondary, please.11·

· · ·· A.· ·Okay.··I have a bachelor of arts degree in12·

·geology from the University of Montana awarded in 197413·

·and a master of science degree in geology with an14·

·emphasis in geophysics awarded in 1986.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·And that's on page 3 of your résumé?16·


· · ·· Q.· ·So how does a -- how does a geology degree18·

·feed into being a hydrologist?19·

· · ·· A.· ·Hydrology is an interdisciplinary science.20·

·Hydrologists come primarily from several fields,21·

·including geology, geography, and forestry.22·

·Hydrologists also come from the engineering profession23·

·where they are typically referred to as water resource24·

·or agricultural engineers.25·



Page 378

· · · · · · My background within my masters degree·1·

·focused heavily on surface processes in geology,·2·

·meaning the production generation and runoff of water·3·

·and the processes which carve and form river channels,·4·

·sediment transport, and river mechanics.·5·

· · · · · · I also specialized in statistical analysis of·6·

·surface water streamflow data and water quality data·7·

·and computer modeling of hydrologic systems.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·And have you -- looks like you finished your·9·

·masters degree in 1986.··Have you done any ongoing10·

·education for, I guess, staying an expert in your field11·

·and learning new techniques or dealing with new12·

·computer systems?13·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I have.··I have had some fairly14·

·extensive training in geographic information systems.15·

·I've also taken a variety of short courses and other16·

·training on the use of specific types of software, such17·

·as the statistical analysis system.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·Have you conducted training or provided19·

·training to other people in this field?20·

· · ·· A.· ·I have.··Every two years I help teach a21·

·graduate level course in -- it's now the University of22·

·Montana Department of Geosciences which deals with23·

·river channel processes and restoration.··In 2008, with24·

·two other nationally recognized experts, I helped25·



Page 379

·conduct a three-day training class through the NWETC,·1·

·Northwest Environmental Training Center, that dealt·2·

·with river channel processes and changes in river·3·

·channel floodplains.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·Thank you.··And then turning to page 4 of·5·

·your résumé, are these a comprehensive list of·6·

·publications and presentations that you've been a part·7·

·of producing and presenting?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it is.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Are there any here that -- maybe a couple10·

·you'd want to point out for us that may be relevant to11·

·this proceeding?12·

· · ·· A.· ·I think if you refer to the bottom of page 5,13·

·MT15232, there are four papers listed there which are14·

·basically peer-reviewed publications.··And they deal --15·

·the first one deals with the significant study of the16·

·entire upper Missouri River basin in Montana.··This is17·

·done cooperatively with the two Montana universities18·

·and the geological survey.··My role in that was to19·

·assist with the study design and perform the20·

·statistical analysis of data.21·

· · · · · · The second publication is work that stems22·

·from my service on a surface water and water quality23·

·technical advisory committee supporting the Federal24·

·Energy Regulatory Commissions 2188 licensing of the 1125·



Page 380

·hydropower projects on the Madison and Missouri River.·1·

· · · · · · Actually, the middle two publications deal·2·

·with that.·3·

· · · · · · And the final is related to in 1994, Ruby·4·

·Reservoir was unintentionally drained.··It sluiced a·5·

·great deal of sediment downstream into a blue ribbon·6·

·trout stream.··And I worked with water users in the·7·

·department to develop a monitoring program and·8·

·ultimately implement a flushing flow program which·9·

·removed the sediments at a time in the spring when the10·

·flows were low in the Ruby but high in the downstream11·

·receiving waters.··And we were able to flush the12·

·sediment through the system without causing further13·

·damage.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·What year was that that --15·

· · ·· A.· ·That was --16·

· · ·· Q.· ·-- that study happened?17·

· · ·· A.· ·That work was done in 1994 and '95.··And the18·

·study was published in 1999.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·So let's go back to a little more of your20·

·work experience.··How long have you worked for DNRC?21·

· · ·· A.· ·I've worked there 28 years.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what were your positions at the DNRC23·

·before your current one, or have you always been a24·

·water hydrologist?··And I'm looking for a simple answer25·



Page 381

·on that one.·1·

· · ·· A.· ·I am in the same position that I started in·2·

·in 1985.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·Have your duties remained the same?··Or can·4·

·you tell us about some of your duties over the years?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Initially, I was hired to work exclusively on·6·

·transboundary water issues, Canadian treaties and·7·

·agreements with Wyoming provinces and to provide·8·

·technical and staff support for the Yellowstone River·9·

·Compact.10·

· · · · · · Over time, as our efforts on the compact met11·

·with limited success and as the department moved into12·

·other major projects, water reservation projects,13·

·issues with large floods in Montana, I was gradually14·

·moved away from those duties and worked on -- let's15·

·see.··From about 1985 to the early '90s, probably about16·

·'93, I worked pretty much exclusively on Canadian and17·

·Yellowstone River Compact.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·Let me ask you a question about that.19·

· · ·· A.· ·Sure.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·So the Canadian one, was that the St.21·

·Mary/Milk project?22·

· · ·· A.· ·It was a significant part of the work, but it23·

·also included agreements on the Poplar River as well24·

·and on Frenchman's Creek.25·



Page 382

· · ·· Q.· ·What province or what provinces were you·1·

·working with?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Saskatchewan and Alberta a little bit.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then after you worked on the·4·

·transboundary issues, what did you do next?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Well, at the same time, I worked in·6·

·Yellowstone Compact issues.··In the early -- oh, I'd·7·

·say around 1994 -- from the period of about 1994 up·8·

·through 2006, I worked primarily on special projects·9·

·that related more to my background as an expert in10·

·sediment transport and river channel processes.··I11·

·first worked on the governor's task force on the Ruby12·

·River project.13·

· · · · · · Then in the years '96 and '97, the upper14·

·Yellowstone basin experienced two large nearly 100-year15·

·floods back to back which created a great deal of16·

·channel damage and confusion.··There was another17·

·governor's task force I participated in as principal18·

·investigator on surface water hydrology and river19·

·channel changes.··That work came to a close in about20·

·2006.21·

· · · · · · And also, I guess in my stead, another22·

·individual, Jim Robinson, because of his familiarity23·

·with the Yellowstone River basin and because he was24·

·working with a group of conservation districts in the25·



Page 383

·basin on a water planning strategy, Jim took over my·1·

·responsibilities on the Yellowstone River Compact.·2·

· · · · · · But as we encountered the water-short years·3·

·of the 2000s, I was gradually brought back into the·4·

·loop.··And by 2006, Yellowstone Compact issues had·5·

·returned to be my primary area for responsibility.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·And we'll talk about that at the end.··I have·7·

·some documents that appear to be associated with that.·8·

· · · · · · So it just sounds like we're about done with·9·

·your experience.··But just, I wanted to ask the10·

·location of the upper Yellowstone project that you11·

·mentioned the flooding; where was the location for12·

·that?13·

· · ·· A.· ·That extended from basically the boundaries14·

·of Park County in Montana, which go from the15·

·Montana/Wyoming state line, Yellowstone Park, near the16·

·town of Corbin, and extend down through Livingston to17·

·Springdale, which is about 30 miles east of Livingston.18·

·It's about 85 miles of river channel.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·So in terms of your past work, is it safe to20·

·say you've done hydrology work, both in a mountainous21·

·setting as far as headwaters as well as in a downstream22·

·flatland setting dealing with the flows that are, I23·

·guess, more of a consumptive area rather than the24·

·headwaters where they gather?··Is that a safe summary?25·



Page 384


· · ·· Q.· ·And has that been primarily in Montana or·2·

·throughout the western United States?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·I'm fairly provincial.··It's been Montana.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·In terms of hydrology, can you tell us what·5·

·that means for someone that's been at DNRC all these·6·

·years?··Are you measuring water physically?··Are you·7·

·doing calculations, analysis, recommendations?··What do·8·

·you do as a hydrologist in all those different·9·

·projects?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Actually, I perform all of those functions.11·

·Although, as I have matured in the position, I spend12·

·less time in the field measuring water than I would13·

·like.··The -- I'd say on a typical project, I work with14·

·the design and implementation of a data collection15·

·program.··And then while technicians or other16·

·hydrologists collect the data, I provide quality17·

·assurance and assist with the analysis and18·

·interpretation in writing a report.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Thank you.··So is this work done in the20·

·normal course of your duties or for this litigation or21·

·perhaps both?22·

· · ·· A.· ·Both.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·And is there a state or national professional24·

·association for hydrologists?25·



Page 385

· · ·· A.· ·There is generally no requirement for·1·

·professional certification or licensing of·2·

·hydrologists.··Montana does not have a requirement.·3·

·Most -- I think all -- I can't think of a single·4·

·western state that does.··However, there is a group of·5·

·individuals called the American Institute of Hydrology·6·

·which does provide a certification program and allows·7·

·one to pay a fee, take an exam, and become a PH.·8·

· · · · · · I guess, because I have an issue with the·9·

·State of Montana not paying professional licensing10·

·fees, I have never taken that step.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then on the bottom of page 3 of your12·

·résumé, it says, 2005 president, Montana section13·

·American Water Resources Association; what were your14·

·duties with that position?15·

· · ·· A.· ·The American Water Resources Association,16·

·national organization, is one of the primary17·

·professional organizations of hydrologists.··And the18·

·Montana section is recognized as one of the premier19·

·sections in the nation, one of the most active.··And in20·

·2005, I was elected and served as the Montana21·

·president.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·And are you a professional engineer?23·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I am not.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·And about what percentage of your25·



Page 386

·professional work time do you spend working on matters·1·

·of hydrology?··Assuming the rest is, I don't know,·2·

·state government bureaucracy perhaps.·3·

· · ·· A.· ·I do pretty fair; about 80 percent of my·4·

·time.·5·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I offer Chuck Dalby·6·

·as an expert witness to testify on matters of surface·7·

·hydrology related to this litigation and the Tongue·8·

·River Basin.·9·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Mr. Kaste?10·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··No objection.11·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Great.··Then I12·

·believe that Mr. Dalby is definitely qualified.··And13·

·you can proceed to question him.14·



· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Dalby, did you prepare an expert report17·

·in this litigation?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I did.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·And is that the Exhibit M11 before you?20·


· · ·· Q.· ·What is the subject and purpose of your22·

·expert report?23·

· · ·· A.· ·The subject is the general basin24·

·characteristics and historic -- I guess I would call it25·



Page 387

·water supply variation in the Tongue River Basin.··And·1·

·the purpose is to generally characterize the hydrology·2·

·of the drainage, where the runoff is generated.··And in·3·

·particular, over the historic period from 1960, which·4·

·is when stream discharge measurements -- stream·5·

·discharge measurement collection was initiated at the·6·

·state line, through 2007 to examine flow frequencies at·7·

·several gauging stations.··And by flow frequencies, I·8·

·mean the percentage of time that a particular flow·9·

·level is equaled or exceeded.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·And so I'm going to ask you without -- I'm11·

·not going to ask you to testify on the subject until we12·

·admit this.··But I want to ask you if you can point out13·

·where you gathered data for this report.··And if you14·

·can refer to somewhere in the report or explain this15·

·demonstrative exhibit, please feel free to do so.16·

· · · · · · Why don't you, for the Court's benefit,17·

·explain what this demonstrative exhibit is next to you?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Okay.··I presume I can stand as long as I19·

·carry the microphone.20·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··As long as the court21·

·reporter can hear you, I'm fine.22·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Get that over there.23·

· · · · · · Can you see?24·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I can see.··Thank you.25·



Page 388


· · ·· Q.· ·And I do have a laser pointer.··Do you want·2·

·the laser pointer?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Oh, this will work.··This is a drainage basin·4·

·map of the Tongue River in Montana.··The basin area is·5·

·around 5400 square miles.··About 30 percent of the·6·

·basin area is located in Wyoming.··However, almost all·7·

·of the surface water runoff in the basin is generated·8·

·in a very small area in the headwaters which generally·9·

·corresponds to this kind of greenish area which10·

·represents the forested portion of the basin.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Dalby, before you start explaining all12·

·that, just tell us what this exhibit is.··And then13·

·we'll talk a little more about your exhibit.··And then14·

·we'll go into actually all the contents.15·

· · · · · · Can you just explain not only what this is16·

·but where you gathered data for your report, please?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Sure.··This basin map, as I indicated, shows18·

·the Tongue River Basin in Montana and Wyoming.··It19·

·also -- the blue triangles show locations of various20·

·USGS stream gauging stations in the basin.··The map was21·

·prepared using GIS methods and through retrieving22·

·drainage boundary information and feature information23·

·from the Montana's Natural Resource Information System,24·

·much of that information produced by the U.S.25·



Page 389

·Geological Survey.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And does this exhibit correspond to Figure 1·2·

·on page 3 of your report?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it does.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·And is it -- does it accurately -- basically·5·

·mirror what's in your report?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it does.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·You can have a seat if you want.·8·

· · · · · · So then, can you just briefly explain how you·9·

·had access to that USGS stream data?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··As part of the U.S. Geological Survey's11·

·mission to make their data available to agencies and12·

·the public, they maintain a national water information13·

·system database which is online, on Internet, and14·

·provides fairly easy access to all of their streamflow15·

·data.··And that's where I retrieved the information.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·And in your experience, how accurate is that17·

·streamflow data?18·

· · ·· A.· ·It is very -- it is very accurate.··It is19·

·considered by most to -- you know, in the academic and20·

·consulting world, to sort of be the benchmark21·

·observations against which other measurements are22·

·compared.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·So after you gathered the data, did you do24·

·any calculations with it?··And I know we'll go into25·



Page 390

·more detail later.··But can you just briefly highlight·1·

·the calculations you performed with the data?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I did.··For the gauging station the·3·

·Tongue River near the state line and the gauging·4·

·station Tongue River below the dam, I retrieved that·5·

·information in mean daily discharge, converted that to·6·

·monthly values, and then prepared, by month, flow·7·

·frequency curves above and below the dam or for the·8·

·station near the state line and below the dam.·9·

· · · · · · And this allows one to characterize how10·

·frequently flows were within a certain range, both at11·

·the state line and at the dam.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·And did you do any calculations with the13·

·reservoir capacity in that flow?14·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I did.··I computed what's referred to15·

·as -- it's a simple index of residence, time, and16·

·reservoir, the capacity inflow ratio.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·So are those calculations ones that you18·

·created, or are these ones that are commonly used in19·

·the hydrology field?20·

· · ·· A.· ·They're commonly used in hydrology.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·So regarding the scope of this report, did22·

·you reach any conclusions or offer opinions on23·

·groundwater activity?24·

· · ·· A.· ·No.25·



Page 391

· · ·· Q.· ·Did you reach any conclusions or offer any·1·

·opinions on reservoir operations?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·No.·3·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··It just suddenly got louder.·4·

· · · · · · THE CLERK:··I'm sorry.·5·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··That's good.·6·


· · ·· Q.· ·And did you have anyone assist you with·8·

·preparing this report?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·I did have assist -- I did have assistance10·

·with preparing Figure 1, the GIS map.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what assisted you?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Troy Blandford, who is a GIS remote sensing13·

·specialist within the Department of Natural Resources.14·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I move the15·

·admission of Montana Exhibit 11 expert report of Chuck16·

·Dalby.17·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··No objection.18·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··So Exhibit M11, the19·

·expert report of Charles E. Dalby, is admitted.20·

· · · · · · · · · · · (Exhibit M011 admitted.)21·


· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, since you submitted this23·

·report, have you identified any errors in the report24·

·that you wish to correct?25·



Page 392

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··On page 7, near the top, there are some·1·

·discharge values which I believe we tried to correct·2·

·earlier, but they -- it didn't stick.··And I don't have·3·

·the information with me as to what those numbers should·4·

·actually be.··I don't know if you have them.·5·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··And, Your Honor, just to·6·

·clarify, I think at one point, Montana provided a·7·

·corrected page, Montana Bates numbered 15215.··We don't·8·

·know if it's actually in the record.··So I'm just going·9·

·to offer this corrected page to Mr. Dalby so he can10·

·provide the corrected values.11·


· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, looking at the first full13·

·paragraph at the top of that page, looking at the end14·

·of the second line, words, "Was in the range of15·

·approximately 140 CFS to 280 CFS."··Do you have a16·

·correction on those numbers you'd like to offer?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I do.··The second number, 280 CFS,18·

·should be changed to 1370 CFS.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then the last line of that sentence,20·

·where it says, "Range of approximately 100 CFS to 28021·

·CFS," do you have a correction on those numbers?22·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··That should be -- the 170 CFS should be23·

·changed to 280 CFS.··And the second number, 280 CFS,24·

·should be changed to 1200 CFS.25·



Page 393

· · ·· Q.· ·And then look at the bottom paragraph in·1·

·that -- on that page.··Would it negate your conclusions·2·

·or data in your report if the original capacity of the·3·

·Tongue River Reservoir was -- hang on.··I'm on the·4·

·wrong page.··If it was proven to be something other·5·

·than 68,000 acre-feet?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·It would depend on what the change in·7·

·reservoir capacity was.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·I apologize.··Let's go back to page 1 of your·9·

·report.··Page 1 of your report, the bottom sentence of10·

·that page.··You say the capacity of approximately11·

·68,000 acre-feet.··Would it negate your conclusions if12·

·that capacity were proven to be 69,000 or 72,50013·

·acre-feet?14·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Mr. Swanson, can you15·

·rephrase that question?16·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Yes, Your Honor.17·


· · ·· Q.· ·So the bottom of page 1, you list the19·

·original capacity of the reservoir as approximately20·

·68,000 acre-feet.··If, in the course of the trial, that21·

·capacity were proven to be 69,000 acre-feet, would that22·

·negate or change your conclusions in this report?23·

· · ·· A.· ·No, it would not.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·If that capacity were proven to be 72,50025·



Page 394

·acre-feet, would it negate or change the conclusions in·1·

·your report?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·No.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·So let's begin on page 1, if we could, with·4·

·the physical setting.··And can you describe for us the·5·

·physical setting of the Tongue River Basin?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··The Tongue River Basin drains a·7·

·forested, humid in the upper headwaters watershed that·8·

·flows into Montana, where it is largely semi-arid.··The·9·

·length of the channel is roughly 300 miles.··If you10·

·look at the distribution of drainage area, about11·

·70 percent of it lies in Montana.··And the other12·

·30 percent is in Wyoming.13·

· · · · · · It is an important 30 percent because -- and14·

·it's even actually a smaller portion than 30 percent.15·

·It's probably on the order of maybe 10 or 15 percent of16·

·the drainage area supplies over 90 percent of the17·

·runoff, which arrives at the state line and, in fact,18·

·at that downstream location in Miles City.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·And how do you determine that number of20·

·90 percent of the runoff from Wyoming?21·

· · ·· A.· ·If -- if one takes the streamflow records at22·

·the state line and streamflow records for a comparable23·

·period on the Tongue River at Miles City and compares24·

·on an average annual basis the loss or accretion of25·



Page 395

·streamflow between those locations, one finds out that·1·

·very little runoff is actually produced in Montana.·2·

· · · · · · And I guess, supporting that observation, if·3·

·you go to the three principal tributaries in Montana·4·

·which enter the Tongue River -- let's see, Pumpkin·5·

·Creek, Otter Creek, and Hanging Woman Creek -- and in·6·

·an average year they generate very little surface flow·7·

·to the main stem Tongue, it's probably certainly less·8·

·than 5 percent.·9·

· · · · · · So I guess the point is almost all the runoff10·

·that drives the hydrologic system in the Tongue River11·

·originates in the headwaters of Wyoming.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what is that water from?··What's the13·

·source of that water?14·

· · ·· A.· ·It's accumulated snowpack.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·So when does the basin realize that runoff?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Generally, it occurs during a period from17·

·about mid-April through the end of June.··That's the18·

·typical window within which the snowmelt pulse comes19·

·off.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·And so just a moment ago, you mentioned the21·

·tributary inflow is very low in Montana.··I'm going to22·

·refer you to that first paragraph on page 1.··Second23·

·sentence, it begins with tributary inflow.··Do you see24·

·that sentence I've indicated?25·



Page 396

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you just read that sentence for us,·2·

·please?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·"Tributary inflow between the state line and·4·

·Tongue River Miles City is small during the April,·5·

·September irrigation season and amounts to less than·6·

·5000 acre-feet in a median runoff year and less than·7·

·3000 acre-feet in a dry year, 25th percentile."·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·When you measured that -- well, first, did·9·

·you measure that to reach that conclusion?10·

· · ·· A.· ·I analyzed the data to reach that conclusion.11·

·I did not measure the streamflow.··That was U.S.12·

·Geological Survey.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·I apologize.··That was poor choice of words.14·

· · · · · · So when you analyzed the data, were you15·

·looking at those three major tributaries you just16·

·mentioned?17·


· · ·· Q.· ·Then when you say in a dry year,19·

·25th percentile, just explain what you mean by that.20·

· · ·· A.· ·Meaning that 75 -- that if you looked at the21·

·entire period of record, 75 percent of the April22·

·through September seasons would have had flow greater23·

·than that.··So the 25th percentile is not an extremely24·

·dry year but a fairly dry year.25·



Page 397

· · ·· Q.· ·And in the last sentence of that paragraph,·1·

·when you say, "As a result of this and consumptive·2·

·uses, the gain and streamflow is small, less than·3·

·5 percent on an average annual basis," what do you mean·4·

·by "and consumptive uses"?··Are you accounting for the·5·

·use of water out of the Tongue for purposes of Montana?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·That's just a general statement.··I did not·7·

·account for any consumptive use.··But that is one of·8·

·the factors that, you know, certainly controls how much·9·

·water ultimately reaches Miles City.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·So what are the measurement points there?··I11·

·assume one of them is the state line?12·


· · ·· Q.· ·What's the other end?14·

· · ·· A.· ·It would be the Tongue River at Miles City.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you tell us the number on that USGS16·

·gauge?17·

· · ·· A.· ·6308500.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·And I'm looking at the map.··It looks like19·

·that's below where Pumpkin Creek comes in; is that20·

·correct?21·


· · ·· Q.· ·So that's below the T & Y diversion as well?23·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·So here's the question:··Is the Tongue River25·



Page 398

·a gathering stream or a losing stream in Montana?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·I think, in general, and -- well, the Tongue·2·

·River, I think, can be characterized typically in·3·

·Montana in -- certainly in dry years and in average·4·

·years as well, has basically a losing stream.··Which·5·

·means that if you compare the streamflow at the state·6·

·line with the streamflow of Miles City on an annual·7·

·basis, you know, the average total amount of runoff at·8·

·both locations, when you take the difference between·9·

·those, you find out that the discharge at Miles City is10·

·typically much -- significantly less than at the state11·

·line, which means that ultimately it flows through the12·

·system.··It is losing some amount of water to13·

·groundwater.14·

· · · · · · Now, I should qualify that because within any15·

·stream system, depending on the antecedent moisture16·

·conditions and the runoff that year, a -- you know, at17·

·a much finer time scale, daily, weekly, monthly, a18·

·given segment of the stream can, under one flow19·

·condition, be gaining.··And under another flow20·

·condition, be losing.··But if we look at the Tongue21·

·River on average and over an extended period of time,22·

·it's really only the exceptionally wet years that23·

·produce a net gain in streamflow between the state line24·

·and Miles City.25·



Page 399

· · ·· Q.· ·And can that change by season as well?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·It can.·2·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I think I'll go·3·

·until about ten to 3:00, and then would that be a good·4·

·time for a break?·5·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Yes, recognizing that when·6·

·we come back, then we'll be back for about an hour and·7·

·40 minutes.·8·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Shall I keep going until you·9·

·tell me to stop?10·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I would probably keep going11·

·until about 3:00.12·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··All right.··We'll do that.13·


· · ·· Q.· ·And then on page 2 of your report, you15·

·mentioned the capacity inflow ratio of a storage16·

·project.··Can you just explain what that means?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··It is the ratio of the amount of water18·

·that can be stored in a reservoir, essentially, its19·

·capacity, to the average annual inflow of water to the20·

·reservoir.··So it's a measure of the residence time in21·

·the reservoir, how long the water will stay in the22·

·reservoir on an annual basis.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, this is one where if you look at the24·

·numerator for your ratio and, let's say, it changes25·



Page 400

·from 68,000 to 72,500 acre-feet, would you see a slight·1·

·change in that ratio based on the numerator changing?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·You would.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·And would it go up or down from the .25·4·

·number?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Let's see.··It would -- it would go up.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·Any idea how far up it would go?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·It's -- I haven't made the calculation.··But·8·

·I think that change in contents is around 7 or·9·

·8 percent.··If I had a calculator, I just --10·

· · ·· Q.· ·It's fine.··Is the point --11·

· · ·· A.· ·But, you know, it's a small change.··And12·

·these numbers are meant to be generally illustrative of13·

·the concept and of, you know, the relative size of the14·

·Tongue River project to the amount of inflow that's15·

·generated.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·So what conclusions do you draw from that,17·

·the fact it's a .25 or thereabouts ratio?18·

· · ·· A.· ·You know, having a capacity inflow ratio of19·

·.25 means that in an average runoff year, the reservoir20·

·will transit roughly four volumes of water in -- over a21·

·one-year period.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·And when's the majority of that water coming23·

·in the year?24·

· · ·· A.· ·Most of it comes between April and June with25·



Page 401

·the snowmelt pulse.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you turn to page 14 of your report,·2·

·Figure 5?··Can you tell us what that is?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·This type of statistical construct is called·4·

·a flow duration hydrograph.··On the left axis, it shows·5·

·the mean daily discharge.··On the horizontal -- or on·6·

·the left vertical, on the horizontal axis, it lists the·7·

·months of year in calendar-year sequence.·8·

· · · · · · This graph, because of the very wide range of·9·

·streamflow in the basin, three orders of magnitude has10·

·to be plotted on log rhythmic graph paper to get11·

·everything on one sheet.12·

· · · · · · So it is a little confusing to read.··And I13·

·also included, in tabular format, the information14·

·contained on that graph.··So when we discuss particular15·

·flow statistics, it's probably easier to do that from16·

·the table.17·

· · · · · · But figure -- both Figure 5 and 6 -- Figure18·

·5, which is the Tongue River at the state line; and19·

·Figure 6, which is the Tongue River below the dam -- if20·

·you just visually compare those two graphs, it gives21·

·you an idea of the effects of flow regulation that the22·

·Tongue River project has.··It generally, like many23·

·storage projects, tends to reduce the high flows and24·

·enhance the lower flows.25·



Page 402

· · ·· Q.· ·So when we look at this graph, and I look at·1·

·beginning in April, we see the lines go up fairly·2·

·steeply.··And then beginning in June, they start going·3·

·down and continue down in July.··I guess the question·4·

·is -- 'cause I can hear counsel from Wyoming say that·5·

·ratio means you can fill this reservoir four times in a·6·

·year.·7·

· · · · · · I guess my question would be:··If you're·8·

·going to fill this reservoir, when are you going to·9·

·fill it?··Can you fill it twice with these steep lines?10·

·Three times?··Or four times?··And when I ask you this,11·

·I'm not asking you about how to operate the reservoir.12·

·I'm just asking about when is the water available?13·

· · ·· A.· ·Well, one needs to fill the reservoir when14·

·the water is available, and most water is available15·

·during the spring snowmelt.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·So can you fill the reservoir in July?··I17·

·mean, do you think there's enough water -- based on18·

·your hydrology experience, is there enough water coming19·

·through that basin to fill the reservoir in July?20·

·Assuming it's, I don't know, one quarter full.··And21·

·again, I'm not asking you to operate a reservoir.··I'm22·

·just asking you to talk about how much water is23·

·available.24·

· · ·· A.· ·I guess the question as asked does not25·



Page 403

·account for some things that one would need to know,·1·

·you know, such as your capacity, what your storage·2·

·contents were going into July.··I think it's very·3·

·unlikely.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·So let's posit the condition as this:··The·5·

·reservoir was full at some point in the season and was·6·

·drawn down to somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to·7·

·20,000 acre-feet.··And beginning, say, July 1st or·8·

·July 15th, there's a desire to fill the reservoir to·9·

·72,000 acre-feet.··Is there enough water coming down10·

·that river from Wyoming to do it?11·

· · ·· A.· ·No.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·Does it make it more difficult if in July the13·

·people that are downstream of that dam are asking for,14·

·say, 200 to 300 CFS of water to satisfy their irrigated15·

·rights?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, that would be another constraint.··One17·

·would need to pass water through the reservoir and not18·

·store it.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·I wonder if you could turn to page 6 on20·

·your -- in your report on the section of mean21·

·discharges.··Can you just explain the calculations you22·

·conducted in the -- I'm looking at the second section23·

·there, annual and monthly variations and streamflow.24·

·And you mention Figure 3, which feel free to refer to25·



Page 404

·that if you need to.·1·

· · ·· A.· ·I am referring to Figure 3, which, on the·2·

·vertical axis shows mean annual discharge, and on the·3·

·horizontal axis shows years extending from 1940 up·4·

·through 2007.··The top line is -- or the bottom line,·5·

·the green dashed line, represents annual discharge of·6·

·the Tongue River at Dayton, Wyoming.··The second line,·7·

·the dark dashed line, is the Tongue River at the state·8·

·line.··And then the third line with triangles that·9·

·nearly overlaps the dashed line, is the Tongue River at10·

·Tongue River Dam.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·So why did you choose Dayton, Wyoming, as12·

·your location for one of your data points?13·

· · ·· A.· ·Dayton, Wyoming, is located closer to the14·

·headwaters in Wyoming.··There is minimum development,15·

·irrigation development or consumptive use above the16·

·station; there is some.··And it also has one of the17·

·longer records of stream discharge in the basin.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·And so what is the gap between the Dayton19·

·line, which is green, and the state line gauge, which20·

·is the black dashed line?··What I mean by that is21·

·there's a gap between those two lines, which means22·

·what?··More water is coming from somewhere else?23·

· · ·· A.· ·Yeah.··That's correct.··That represents the24·

·amount of streamflow that would be accumulated between25·



Page 405

·the station at Dayton and -- which is on the -- I'll·1·

·just point this out -- which is located here on the·2·

·north fork of the Tongue River, which does provide·3·

·significant streamflow to the main Tongue.··But in·4·

·addition, the Goose Creek drainage and Prairie Dog·5·

·Creek drainage would also -- I don't recall if Prairie·6·

·Dog Creek enters the Tongue above or below the state·7·

·line.·8·

· · · · · · But nonetheless, those streams also·9·

·contribute streamflow to the state line.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·So when we look at this Figure 3, I guess in11·

·the drought years, the early 2000s, what is this --12·

·what do you -- what conclusions do you draw from this?13·

· · ·· A.· ·I think the -- if one just looks at the graph14·

·and the general patterns over time, what one finds out15·

·is that in wetter years, the -- you know, the gap16·

·between the state line average annual discharge and the17·

·Dayton discharge is much broader.··And as one enters a18·

·period of dry years, such as in the 2000s, there is --19·

·that gap becomes much narrower.··And it indicates two20·

·things:··It indicates that less -- for whatever21·

·reasons, less runoff is being generated in the basin.22·

·And when you consider that in those low flow years the23·

·capacity inflow ratio changes and becomes very high,24·

·for example, in, I think it was 2002, in which the25·



Page 406

·annual runoff was 99,000 acre-feet relative to a·1·

·project contents of -- excuse me, 79,000 acre-feet,·2·

·there's only about 20,000 acre-feet of water in the·3·

·system to meet all of the other needs and uses of·4·

·water.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·So given that fact, does it surprise you if·6·

·in the early 2000s, there were years when the Tongue·7·

·River Reservoir did not fill?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·No.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Would it surprise you if it did fill, based10·

·on simply the issue of water available for that11·

·capacity?12·

· · ·· A.· ·It would.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·I wonder if on page 6, the next section,14·

·monthly streamflow statistics, can you just summarize15·

·the calculations and the results of this section,16·

·please?17·

· · ·· A.· ·For the period of October 1st, 1960, through18·

·October 1st, 2007, I retrieved mean daily discharge19·

·data and converted that to monthly streamflow.··I used20·

·the monthly streamflow data to develop the flow21·

·duration hydrograph.··And then I also used the daily22·

·streamflow data to characterize what typical October23·

·through March -- what the typical range of discharge24·

·was during that time period and what the, sort of,25·



Page 407

·average or median value would be.··And I did that for·1·

·October 1st -- well, 1960 to 2007.·2·

· · · · · · And then I did it for a separate period of·3·

·time that focuses more on, I think, from about 1939·4·

·through about 1955, which captures more of the time·5·

·period during which the compact was being negotiated·6·

·and ratified.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·So, then, looking at page 7, as it carries·8·

·over, in terms of the monthly streamflow variation,·9·

·what -- let's look at just the winter months of these10·

·three different periods.··I believe that's -- I'm11·

·looking at the first full paragraph under the heading12·

·monthly streamflow variation under page 7 -- page 7 of13·

·the...14·

· · · · · · So I'm indicating a sentence in the paragraph15·

·over the period January 1, 1986, to January 1, 1990.16·

·What was the average flow in the winter months?17·

· · ·· A.· ·For that time period, the average flow was18·

·approximately 200 CFS for October through March.··And19·

·that's at the state line.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what was the rate below the reservoir21·

·dam?22·

· · ·· A.· ·For the time period January 1st, 1986, to23·

·January 1st, 1990, the average flow between October and24·

·March was approximately 170 CFS.25·



Page 408

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··So we're at 170 in the winter below·1·

·the dam for that era.··Can you give us the number for·2·

·the 1939 to 1955 period of time?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··During 1939 to 1959 and -- this is --·4·

·data is only available for the Tongue River at the dam·5·

·because discharge measurement did not start until 1960·6·

·at the state line.··So this is just available for the·7·

·dam.··The mean daily discharge range from approximately·8·

·400 CFS to 50 CFS.··And through the October through·9·

·March period was -- averaged about 250.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·So winter months it would average 250.··And11·

·then when it says the 400 CFS to 50 CFS, is that just12·

·for in the winter, or is that all year?13·

· · ·· A.· ·No, that also applies to that period.··Let's14·

·see, October through March.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then why did you exclude the years 194016·

·to 1943?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Those were early years of project operation.18·

·And I believe that they were kind of feeling their way19·

·as they went.··And there may have also been some20·

·operational considerations.··And when I looked at that21·

·data, I felt it did not represent, you know, what would22·

·be typical operations of the reservoir.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then can you give us the winter flow24·

·average for the era 1999 to 2007?25·



Page 409

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··At the state line, discharge ranged·1·

·from 4700 CFS to 5 CFS and averaged approximately 160·2·

·CFS in the October through March period.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·So comparing those two eras, the 1999 to 2007·4·

·era compared to the 1939-1955 era, it looks like the·5·

·more recent era is just under half of what it was in·6·

·the first period when the dam was operating; is that·7·

·accurate?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Excuse me.··What was just under half?·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·It looks like the 1999 to 2007 flow rate is10·

·just under half the 1939 to 1955 flow rate for winter11·

·months.12·


· · ·· Q.· ·Now, are you aware of a 1978 flood that14·

·caused damage to the Tongue River Reservoir?15·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·And do you know whether that damage caused17·

·the reservoir to store less water than it would have18·

·otherwise?19·

· · ·· A.· ·It -- the flood created -- or caused serious20·

·damage to the spillway which did place it under dam21·

·safety operational constraints, such that the pool22·

·level had to be regulated to try not to exceed a23·

·certain level.··I'm not familiar with the details of24·

·that.25·



Page 410

· · ·· Q.· ·And do you recall whether that dam was·1·

·repaired in the late '90s?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·The project rehabilitation and enlargement, I·3·

·believe, was completed by 1999.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·So I guess my point is that later data set,·5·

·1999 to 2007, we wouldn't be looking at a data set·6·

·where they were storing less because of a dam safety·7·

·issue?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·No.·9·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Mr. Swanson, I wonder if10·

·this would be a good time for a break?11·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··I think it would be, Your12·

·Honor.··I've got about four more questions on the13·

·report.··And then I have some questions on his14·

·background and DNRC.··And I have about five exhibits to15·

·admit.··So probably half hour at the most.16·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Why don't we actually do the17·

·four questions on the expert report and finish that up.18·



· · ·· Q.· ·So going back to the 1940s, are you aware of21·

·how the Tongue River Water Users' Association marketed22·

·its water and stored water in the 1940s?··In other23·

·words, did you evaluate their practices for the purpose24·

·of this report?25·



Page 411

· · ·· A.· ·No.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And the other thing I found interesting about·2·

·these three paragraphs is it shows a decreased winter·3·

·flow across the state line from Wyoming as these·4·

·periods go forward from 1986 to 1990, that period, to·5·

·then 1997 to 2007.··Are you aware of any data that·6·

·disputes that trend?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I'm not.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·Did you determine the cause of the decline in·9·

·winter flows from Wyoming?10·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I did not.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Did you investigate whether additional winter12·

·storage in Wyoming was contributing to the decline in13·

·the state line flows?14·

· · ·· A.· ·No.15·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··That's all I have on that16·

·report, Your Honor.··The rest of it would be some of17·

·his experience as a percipient witness and some18·

·foundation for documents.19·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··That sounds good.20·

·Actually, I have just one quick question on the report21·

·just to make sure I totally understand it.22·

· · · · · · On figures 5 and 6, which are the hydrographs23·

·for the various percentages, I assume what that shows24·

·is that -- for example, with the 40 percent line, is25·



Page 412

·that the mean daily discharge where for 40 percent of·1·

·the years studied, it would be at that number or·2·

·higher?·3·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··That's correct.·4·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.·5·

· · · · · · Why don't we take a 15-minute break.··So·6·

·we'll come back at 20 minutes after 3:00.·7·

· · · · · · · · · · · (Recess taken 3:06 to 3:22·8·

· · · · · · · · · · · p.m., October 17, 2013)·9·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Everyone can be10·

·seated.··So welcome back.11·

· · · · · · Mr. Dalby, and, Mr. Swanson.12·



· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Dalby, you are still under oath; I think15·

·you're aware of that?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·I'm just going to ask you to turn -- there's18·

·a file of exhibits in folders there.··And I'm asking19·

·you turn to a couple of those.··First one is Exhibit20·

·Montana 115; do you recognize this document?21·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I do.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·Without going into the contents of it, can23·

·you just describe what it is?24·

· · ·· A.· ·It is a brief memo to Larry Marshall, who was25·



Page 413

·a project manager working on the Tongue River project,·1·

·that points out a couple of aspects of the Yellowstone·2·

·Compact.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·Just describe it and the title and the date,·4·

·please.·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Okay.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·The title and the date, please.·7·

· · ·· A.· ·It is Yellowstone Compact Status Tongue·8·

·River.··And it is a memo from Chuck Dalby to Larry·9·

·Marshall, dated February 24th, 1989.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·And it looks like your name is handwritten11·

·there on the memo.··Is that your handwriting?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it is.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·So did you prepare this document?14·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.15·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I'd move admission16·

·of Montana Exhibit 115.17·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··I guess I have an objection.··At18·

·this point there hasn't been a demonstration of the19·

·document's relevance to any of the issues in the case.20·

·And it's not apparent to me on the face of the thing21·

·why it is relevant.22·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, may I ask him a23·

·question, then, to establish relevance?24·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Go ahead.25·



Page 414


· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, I'm just looking at the·2·

·November -- the third paragraph that begins at the·3·

·November 1988 annual meeting.··Can you just read that·4·

·very first sentence?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·"At the November 1988 meeting Yellowstone·6·

·Compact Commission authorized the preparation of a·7·

·framework report.··This report will review the status·8·

·of all Yellowstone Compact issues and be presented at·9·

·the 1989 annual meeting in November."10·

· · ·· Q.· ·And did you attend that meeting?11·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I did.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·And in preparing this document and at the13·

·meeting, were you aware of ongoing disputes between the14·

·two states regarding water supply in the Tongue River15·

·associated with the Yellowstone Compact?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I was.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·So it's fair to say that even going back as18·

·far as 1988, the compact commission was discussing this19·

·and you were aware of those discussions?20·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.21·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··If the exhibit is being offered22·

·for that purpose, I withdraw my objection.··I23·

·understand where we're going now.··Thank you.24·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Thank you, Mr. Kaste.25·



Page 415

· · · · · · So Exhibit M115 is admitted into evidence.·1·

· · · · · · · · · · · (Exhibit M115 admitted.)·2·


· · ·· Q.· ·And I'm not going to ask you to testify at·4·

·great length about this because I know it's probably·5·

·beyond what you did as a hydrologist.··But I'm·6·

·interested in the additional sentence, it's in the·7·

·third paragraph, Wyoming's position is that...·8·

· · · · · · Do you see that?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Could you just read that sentence for us?11·

· · ·· A.· ·"Wyoming's position is that the Northern12·

·Cheyenne reserved right, although pre-1950, should be13·

·taken out of Montana's share of compact of post-195014·

·water."15·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, how did you understand that that was16·

·Wyoming's position?··Had you heard that from someone in17·

·Wyoming?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··There --19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Just briefly, related to this meeting.··Did20·

·you hear that at this meeting?21·

· · ·· A.· ·I can't be certain that I -- that I heard it22·

·at this particular meeting.··But it was a position23·

·established through and repeated by several successive24·

·Wyoming state engineers.25·



Page 416

· · ·· Q.· ·What I'm asking specifically is did you hear·1·

·at this meeting or a related meeting that position·2·

·communicated from Wyoming?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··We'll move to the next exhibit,·5·

·which is Montana 193.·6·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··On this one, Your Honor, pages·7·

·14 through 17 of the document, which would be Bates·8·

·Nos. Montana 01421 to 01424 are -- appear to be an·9·

·article about coalbed methane development in the Powder10·

·River that's not relevant to our discussion.··And11·

·Montana's fine with excluding those from the exhibit12·

·based on -- and I've notified Wyoming, and they agree13·

·to that.14·

· · · · · · Based on the possibility of the scientific15·

·literature ruling we had at the pretrial conference,16·

·Mr. Dalby did not rely on this information for the rest17·

·of the content within this exhibit.··I was just18·

·informing you in advance.19·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Appreciate that.20·


· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··Mr. Dalby, can you describe the22·

·document that you see that's M193?··Just tell us what23·

·that first page is for purposes of identification.24·

· · ·· A.· ·It is a memo from Chuck Dalby to Rich Moy25·



Page 417

·dated August 8th, 2006.··And the subject is streamflow·1·

·conditions in the Powder and Tongue Basins.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·Did you prepare this memo to Mr. Moy?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then can you flip to another page -- it's·5·

·actually another memo about 15 pages in -- correction.·6·

·It's the 18th page of this exhibit.··And the number on·7·

·the bottom is MT-01425.·8·

· · · · · · Do you have that page in front of you?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you identify what this memo is?11·

· · ·· A.· ·This is a similar memo from myself to Jack12·

·Stults, division administrator.··It is dated about a13·

·month earlier than the memo to Rich Moy, July 7, 2006.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·And did you prepare this memo?15·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you recognize whose handwritten notes are17·

·on this in blue ink?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··Those are mine.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then there are a number of additional20·

·pages that appear to be figures, tables, graphs; do you21·

·know who prepared those pages?22·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I did.23·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I move admission of24·

·Exhibit Montana 193.25·



Page 418

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··No objection.··But what we should·1·

·do -- I apologize -- over the weekend, if we can, is·2·

·where there are exhibits that are really fairly·3·

·multiple exhibits, I think each side should strive to·4·

·separate those suckers out so we can do them one at a·5·

·time.··I mean, obviously these memorandum are separated·6·

·by month, and it seems clear that the first memorandum·7·

·didn't attach the second.··And like I said, I apologize·8·

·about our exhibit list.··We'll try to do that with ours·9·

·to ensure, and we'll let Montana know if we're going to10·

·be creating, instead of W1 and 1A and B and C to ferret11·

·that kind of copying out.12·

· · · · · · But I have no objections to either memo in13·

·this exhibit.14·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··So as I understand15·

·your point, Mr. Kaste, it is that this appears to not16·

·be one cover memo with a variety of documents that have17·

·always been attached to it, but instead several18·

·documents that are stapled together and labeled as one19·

·exhibit.··And I think you are correct that to the20·

·degree that there are exhibits of this nature that pull21·

·together multiple documents, it would be valuable to22·

·have them separated.··Also for ease of reference.23·

· · · · · · The only exception I'll make is that if24·

·there's a couple of cases where there's a document25·



Page 419

·that's really two documents that are closely related·1·

·and they just happen to be stapled together, rather·2·

·than trying to renumber exhibits at this point, I think·3·

·it would be fine to go ahead and keep those as one·4·

·exhibit if people are going to admit them at the same·5·

·time and they are similar.··But certainly to the degree·6·

·that there's three or four different documents·7·

·together, it would be useful to separate those out.·8·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Thank you.·9·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Yes, Your Honor.··And if you go10·

·to the second memo -- there are, in fact, other copies11·

·of this.··Wyoming has it, and we have it.··But this was12·

·the only grouping that had it with the additional13·

·charts and tables which I don't intend to talk about.14·

·But it seemed to me a more complete document regarding15·

·what the original had been.··And so for that reason, I16·

·felt it was actually the best representation of the17·

·accurate document that had been produced at the time.18·

·And that's why I chose to use it.19·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I understand.··So then20·

·Exhibit M193 is admitted with the exceptions of pages21·

·MT01421 through 01424.22·



· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Dalby, if you could go to that second25·



Page 420

·memo, the July 7, 2006, memo to Jack Stults, and it·1·

·appears you're discussing concerns about streamflow.·2·

·But I wonder if you could read the last sentence of the·3·

·second paragraph.·4·

· · ·· A.· ·Second memo, last sentence in second·5·

·paragraph?·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·Yes, begins water supply for main stem.·7·

· · ·· A.· ·"Water supply for main stem water users is·8·

·likely to remain favorable through the 2006·9·

·July-September irrigation season."10·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then if you could go to the front memo to11·

·Mr. Moy, and that appears to be one month and one day12·

·later.··And I'm looking at the very bottom paragraph of13·

·that memo.··And can you compare that statement to the14·

·2000 -- to the July memo?··It appears things have15·

·gotten worse.16·


· · ·· Q.· ·Can you just read that last paragraph for us?18·

· · ·· A.· ·"From the assembled information, it is clear19·

·that August 2006 streamflow will be low in the Tongue20·

·and Powder River Basins.··While there have previously21·

·been similar periods of low flow in the 1930s, it is22·

·possible that new records will be set."23·

· · ·· Q.· ·So what happened?··It just -- it got bad24·

·after the July memo?··Can you maybe tell us what25·


Examination by the Special MasterCHUCK DALBY - October 17, 2013

Page 421

·happened here?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·Well, in a nutshell, that's it.··I made what·2·

·I thought were worse case assumptions regarding inflows·3·

·and outflows from the Tongue project.··And on that·4·

·basis concluded that water supply conditions would be·5·

·favorable in Montana.··And my recollection is that a·6·

·couple of days after I issued that memo, the state line·7·

·flow initiated what amounted to a precipitous drop and·8·

·reached 10 CFS, which is not the lowest flow of record,·9·

·but very close.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·So it's -- I just want to ask you that --11·

·whether there were errors in the first one or whether12·

·conditions just changed after that memo.··It appears13·

·conditions changed; is that correct?14·

· · ·· A.· ·Conditions did change.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then if you could look at the next folder16·

·there, which is actually marked Exhibit Wyoming 163.17·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Actually, if you don't mind,18·

·before we go on to the next exhibit, I just have one19·

·question here.20·

· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION21·


· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, do you have responsibility for23·

·making these types of projections for Montana?24·

· · ·· A.· ·In the -- in this context, in the Yellowstone25·



Page 422

·River Basin, yes.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·So what type of information do you normally·2·

·use in making those sort of projections?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·In this case, I simply looked at the·4·

·available streamflow information and made an assumption·5·

·about what the, sort of, worst case inflow level would·6·

·be, which I think was around 70 CFS, and also looked at·7·

·the project contents.··And then based on that inflow·8·

·estimate assumed a similar, kind of, worst case outflow·9·

·for the project, which was fairly high, so that we10·

·would have very low inflow but large outflow, having11·

·good potential to draw the reservoir down.··And on that12·

·basis, concluded that for the next couple months, we13·

·should be okay.14·

· · · · · · And it turned out that the project inflow was15·

·significantly lower than that 70 CFS.··It reached a low16·

·of about 10 CFS.17·

· · · · · · I should also point out that the -- there is18·

·operational forecasting in support of Tongue River19·

·Reservoir operations that the Tongue River Water Users'20·

·and State Water Projects Bureau receive from NRCS,21·

·Natural Resources Conservation Service.··And they22·

·incorporate that information into project management23·

·and operations.··I'm not directly involved in this.··My24·

·role is more monitoring water supply conditions in25·



Page 423

·Montana and the amount of water produced at the state·1·

·line by Wyoming.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·And for purposes of being able to project·3·

·what water is likely to be at the state line, do you·4·

·get information from Wyoming on that?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··It's not directly provided by Wyoming.·6·

·But I use information that the Wyoming State Engineer's·7·

·Office and U.S. Geological Survey collect which·8·

·facilitate that analysis.··We do have a spring·9·

·technical committee meeting of the Yellowstone Compact10·

·Commission at which both states are provided with11·

·forecasts of runoff for the upcoming season.··And we do12·

·have discussion between the two states, I think, to,13·

·you know, have some indication of how projects are14·

·likely to be operated in the upcoming season.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·And just one final question on this.··So my16·

·experience is primarily in California.··And so a lot of17·

·our water comes from the snowpack in the Sierra.··So18·

·I'm very used to the types of projections that are made19·

·based on the snowpack in the Sierra, which, of course,20·

·can vary depending on whether or not it's a late melt21·

·or an early melt but still, nonetheless, gives you a22·

·fair amount of accuracy.23·

· · · · · · Does the snowpack in the Wyoming mountain24·

·ranges that feed the Tongue River, do they provide you25·



Page 424

·with a fair amount of accuracy?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·I have never gone back and systematically·2·

·compared those forecasts.··The NRCS does not do that as·3·

·a routine matter either.··But my experience is the·4·

·volumetric forecast over a multiple period of months·5·

·may be reasonably accurate, plus or minus 20 or·6·

·30 percent.·7·

· · · · · · But it's a fairly broad forecast period that,·8·

·you know, within that window, when most of the runoff·9·

·occurs, how it's distributed between the months can10·

·vary significantly.··It's not simply just an even11·

·declining hydrograph.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Thank you very much.13·

· · · · · · Mr. Swanson?14·


· · · · · · So the next document is Wyoming 163.··Your16·

·Honor, we're going to provide this to you.··I don't17·

·know that you have it there.18·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I actually have copies of19·

·163 and 168.··Thanks.··In the future I'll get them20·

·ahead of time since I actually know about them.··And21·

·we'll ultimately get this to be smooth and efficient.22·

·We're all learning.23·

·24·

·25·


Redirect Examination by Mr. SwansonCHUCK DALBY - October 17, 2013

Page 425

· · · · · · · · · · REDIRECT EXAMINATION·1·


· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Dalby, can you just identify what this·3·

·document is, Wyoming 163?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·This is a series of e-mail communications·5·

·between myself and Sue Lowry from the Wyoming State·6·

·Engineer's Office.··And it attaches a brief conceptual·7·

·scope for a joint study, cooperative study between·8·

·Montana and Wyoming of water use in the Yellowstone·9·

·Basin.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·What's the date on the last message on that11·

·string of e-mails, the top one on page 1?12·

· · ·· A.· ·November 29th, 2006.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Is that your work e-mail address?14·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it is.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·So did you produce this document or at least16·

·the e-mail portions of the document addressed to you?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·And where did this page 3 come from?··Who19·

·produced that page?20·

· · ·· A.· ·I produced that in cooperation with Jim21·

·Robinson, who was also working on the compact at that22·

·time.23·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I move admission of24·

·Exhibit Wyoming 163.25·



Page 426

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··No objection.·1·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··So actually, I have a·2·

·question, though.··My document looks very different·3·

·than the document you've put up on the screen.··So my·4·

·document basically, at the very top, and it's labeled·5·

·M163, says questions for Montana at 6/10 meeting.·6·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··It's Wyoming 163.··I apologize.·7·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I'm sorry.··My fault.··Okay.·8·

·These are Montana.··Okay.··Thank you.·9·

· · · · · · And so, again, my understanding, Mr. Kaste,10·

·no objection?11·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··That's correct.12·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··So Exhibit W163 is13·

·then admitted into evidence.14·

· · · · · · · · · · · (Exhibit W163 admitted.)15·


· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, I guess the thing I just want17·

·to ask you about is did you continue to have a18·

·cooperative relationship with Wyoming working on these19·

·water issues even after Montana had initiated four or20·

·more years of call?21·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.22·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Assumes facts not in evidence.23·

·How about that?24·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I think that's a fair25·



Page 427

·objection.·1·

· · · · · · Rephrase the question.·2·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··It was funny, though.··If I·3·

·hadn't looked at him, I don't think he would have·4·

·noticed.·5·


· · ·· Q.· ·Did you continue to have a cooperative·7·

·working relationship with Wyoming water officials even·8·

·after many years of disputes over water on the Tongue·9·

·River?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·And this page 3, the joint water use study,12·

·was that something you anticipated working together13·

·with Wyoming to carry out?14·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, we did.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·Was this study ever conducted?16·

· · ·· A.· ·No.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you briefly explain why?18·

· · ·· A.· ·We had, I guess, struggled historically with19·

·administration of the Yellowstone River Compact.··And20·

·each state had a number of disagreements over various21·

·matters of interpretation.··We kind of had our ups and22·

·downs over the years.··And by the early 2000s, we had23·

·hit a series of water short years that were, you know,24·

·comparable to the 1930s.25·



Page 428

· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, I'm sorry.··Just to go back·1·

·to -- just briefly, why didn't the states complete this·2·

·study that you and Sue Lowry contemplated or kind of·3·

·laid out the framework for at the end of 2006?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·At the same time that we were developing this·5·

·cooperative study, we were also looking at the low·6·

·flows of the 2000s.··And the fact that Wyoming had been·7·

·unresponsive to our two calls --·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, when you say two calls, do you really·9·

·mean four or more calls?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.11·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Objection.12·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I think that is fair,13·

·Mr. Swanson.14·


· · ·· Q.· ·So, Mr. Dalby, can we just focus on, is it16·

·true that this joint study was interrupted by the fact17·

·that litigation began in this case?18·


· · ·· Q.· ·And when you say two calls from Montana to20·

·Wyoming, do you mean two formal call letters from --21·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Leading.··Can he just ask the22·

·witness what he means rather than feeding him the23·

·information?24·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I think that's a fair25·



Page 429

·objection.·1·


· · ·· Q.· ·Can you explain what you mean when you say·3·

·two calls from Montana to Wyoming?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··The department, in 2004 and 2006, wrote·5·

·letters to the Wyoming state engineer and compact·6·

·commissioner making calls on Wyoming to release water·7·

·from storage and to administer post-50 water within the·8·

·state.·9·

· · · · · · We were uncertain that we needed to do that.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·And that's fine.··Just in terms of the11·

·question, though, are you testifying that Montana never12·

·made any other calls in other ways beyond the letters?13·

· · ·· A.· ·No.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·You're not testifying to that?15·

· · ·· A.· ·No.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Thank you.··And now we'll move to Exhibit17·

·Wyoming 168.··Can you just briefly identify what this18·

·document is?19·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··This is a series of e-mail20·

·communications between myself, Sue Lowry, and Pat21·

·Tyrrell, the Wyoming compact commissioner.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you tell us the date on that?23·

· · ·· A.· ·December 8th, 2006.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·That's also your work e-mail address?25·



Page 430

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it is.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·So this document, at least in part, came from·2·

·you; is that correct?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it did.·4·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I move admission of·5·

·Exhibit Wyoming 168.·6·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Mr. Kaste?·7·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··No objection.·8·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Then Exhibit Wyoming·9·

·168 is admitted into evidence.10·

· · · · · · · · · · · (Exhibit W168 admitted.)11·


· · ·· Q.· ·And so, Mr. Dalby, I just want to ask, is13·

·this a different project than the joint water use14·

·study?··In other words, are the two states cooperating15·

·on an additional project beyond the one that was shown16·

·in the Wyoming 163?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·And do you know if this federal funding19·

·project that was contemplated here was ever carried20·

·out?21·

· · ·· A.· ·We -- the Yellowstone Compact Commission on22·

·several occasions supported the continuing resolution23·

·and earmark in Congress to maintain the streamflow and24·

·water quality monitoring network to evaluate the25·


CHARLES DALBY - October 17, 2013Cross-Examination by Mr. Kaste

Page 431

·effects of coalbed methane development.··We tried twice·1·

·with the Montana delegation and were unsuccessful both·2·

·times.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·But is it true that the reason it failed was·4·

·due to lack of funding, not because of this lawsuit?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··Yes.·6·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, could I have one·7·

·minute to confer with my counsel?··I may be done.·8·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··You certainly may.·9·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Your Honor, I have no further10·

·questions.··I may need to do redirect after Mr. Kaste.11·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Thank you very much,12·

·Mr. Swanson.13·

· · · · · · So, Mr. Kaste, cross-examination.14·

· · · · · · · · · ·· CROSS-EXAMINATION15·

·BY MR. KASTE:16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Thank you.··Good afternoon, Mr. Dalby.··You17·

·and I have never met before today; correct?18·


· · ·· Q.· ·In fact, when you had your deposition taken,20·

·that was taken by Mr. Williams, who used to work at the21·

·Attorney General's office; is that right?22·


· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Williams asked you a number of questions24·

·during the course of your deposition; you recall that?25·



Page 432

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I do.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And you were under oath at that time;·2·

·correct?·3·


· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··I'm going to ask you a series of·5·

·questions.··Are you personally aware of any call that·6·

·was made on Wyoming in 2003?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·No.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Are you personally aware of any call·9·

·that was made on Wyoming in 2002?10·

· · ·· A.· ·No.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·2001?12·

· · ·· A.· ·No.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·1987, '88, or '89?14·

· · ·· A.· ·May I ask you to define "call"?15·

· · ·· Q.· ·A request that Wyoming regulate its water16·

·users for the benefit of Montana.··I can tell you what17·

·your previous answer was.18·

· · ·· A.· ·Well, I'm pretty sure it's no.··I'm not19·

·aware.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·You talked a little bit with Mr. Swanson21·

·about some of the -- I think he described it as22·

·disputes between Wyoming and Montana over the years23·

·with regard to the Yellowstone River Compact; do you24·

·remember that?25·



Page 433

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And isn't it fair to say that prior to the·2·

·2000s, the disputes between Montana and Wyoming largely·3·

·focused on the application of Article 5C?·4·


· · ·· Q.· ·Thank you.··Let's talk real quick about your·6·

·report.··I'm looking at page 1 of your report, which I·7·

·understand is Exhibit M11.·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··The very last sentence talks10·

·about your understanding of the original capacity of11·

·the Tongue River Reservoir, and you report it to be12·

·68,000 acre-feet; correct?13·


· · ·· Q.· ·Where did you obtain that information?15·

· · ·· A.· ·I don't recall.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Have you seen documents over the years17·

·through the course of your employment that relay the18·

·original capacity of the Tongue River Reservoir?19·

· · ·· A.· ·Pardon?··The last two words?20·

· · ·· Q.· ·The original capacity of the Tongue River21·

·Reservoir, were the last.22·

· · ·· A.· ·No, something that relate?23·

· · ·· Q.· ·Relay.··I'm sorry.24·

· · ·· A.· ·Oh, relay.··There are, I think, several25·



Page 434

·documents that, you know, give the contents and the·1·

·capacity of the reservoir.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·To your knowledge, are they generally in the·3·

·68 to 69,000 acre-foot range?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·I think some of them exceed 70,000 acre-feet.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·Could you recall one specifically today?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·I believe that there was some work done on·7·

·reservoir capacity and sedimentation in the 1940s.··I'm·8·

·not intimately familiar with that work.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Have you had a chance on various10·

·occasions to review reports of the Yellowstone River11·

·Compact Commission?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Is it typically reported in those reports at14·

·69,400 acre-feet?15·

· · ·· A.· ·I don't recall.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··We have the reports.··We can look at17·

·them.18·

· · · · · · I think you said at one point in your19·

·testimony that it was your opinion that the Tongue20·

·River Reservoir in Montana is a losing stream; correct?21·

· · ·· A.· ·The stream system is on average a losing22·

·system.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·Have you had an opportunity to review the24·

·expert report prepared by Mr. Dale Book in this case?25·



Page 435

· · ·· A.· ·I have, but not recently.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Do you recall that he reports, on page·2·

·10 of his report, that he calculated a value for stream·3·

·gain, and he calculated that value from a review of·4·

·wintertime gauge records at Miles City and the·5·

·reservoir outlet and found there was a constant gain of·6·

·15 CFS for the entire reach?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·I'm not.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·You don't remember that from his report?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·No.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Sounds like you disagree with it, however?11·

· · ·· A.· ·I think on face value it appears to be an12·

·inconsistency.··But one has to recognize that the13·

·information I presented on losing-gaining stream was14·

·based on annual discharge.··And it is possible for, you15·

·know, on balance over an entire year for a stream to be16·

·either losing or gaining but have a several-month17·

·period in there which is a trend in the opposite18·

·direction.··So I don't think those results are19·

·necessarily in conflict.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··I think at one point in your21·

·testimony you said -- as you were discussing when water22·

·was available for the Tongue River Reservoir, you said23·

·you should store water when it's available; correct?24·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.25·



Page 436

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··And I understand --·1·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Objection.··He's misstating his·2·

·testimony.·3·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··He's already agreed.·4·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··I think at this stage, I·5·

·think given that the witness has already answered, I'm·6·

·going to let this stay on the record.·7·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Can I hear the question again·8·

·that was just asked?·9·

· · · · · · · · · · · (The record was read as10·

· · · · · · · · · · · requested.)11·

·BY MR. KASTE:12·

· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··Mr. Dalby, I'm looking at Figure13·

·5 of your report.··And I don't pretend to understand14·

·very much of it.··But I get a sense that it does show15·

·flows for the Tongue River at the state line during the16·

·months between October and March -- it shows for the17·

·whole year; right?18·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··So we agree that there are flows into20·

·the Tongue River Reservoir from the state line between21·

·the months of October and April; correct?22·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·And physically, those could be available to24·

·store during the months of October through March or25·



Page 437

·April; correct?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·Define physically available for storage.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·You shut the gate, that water will stay in·3·

·the reservoir; right?·4·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Now, I will grant you it's not the·6·

·same quantity of water that we find in May, June, and·7·

·July; correct?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·But there's some there; right?10·

· · · · · · THE REPORTER:··Did you answer?11·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··He did not.12·

·BY MR. KASTE:13·

· · ·· Q.· ·You talked about damage to the spillway14·

·occurring in 1978?15·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then ultimately being rehab -- the17·

·rehabilitation occurred in 1999; correct?18·

· · ·· A.· ·I believe it was completed in '99.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·And do I understand right that from 197820·

·through the period of the rehabilitation or completion21·

·of the rehabilitation project, the dam was, for safety22·

·reasons, unable to operate at its full original23·

·capacity?24·




Page 438

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you look with me at Figure 3 of your·1·

·report?··Now, if I understand right, this figure helps·2·

·to differentiate the flows that are attributable from·3·

·the main stem of the Tongue in Wyoming to the flows·4·

·that are attributable from the Little Goose, Big Goose,·5·

·and Prairie Dog drainages; is that fair?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·No.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·No?··The gauge that you're referencing with·8·

·the green dots is at Dayton; right?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·So that picks up the tributaries to the main11·

·stem of the Tongue that are upstream of the town of12·

·Dayton; correct?13·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then the down of the Dayton gauge would15·

·not record any flows from Big Goose, Little Goose or16·

·Prairie Dog?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Right.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·So there's this variation between the total19·

·and the green line, which is the recording at Dayton;20·

·fair?21·


· · ·· Q.· ·All right.··And we talked about the years in23·

·the 2000s when you see the flows overall are low and24·

·that difference between the flows at Dayton and overall25·



Page 439

·has narrowed; did I understand that's what you're·1·

·conveying?·2·


· · ·· Q.· ·Did you go check the other gauges in Wyoming·4·

·for purposes of your analysis to determine whether·5·

·Wyoming was having a bad water year during these·6·

·periods of time?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I did not.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·So this could reflect simply poor water·9·

·conditions all throughout the Big Horns; correct?10·

· · ·· A.· ·I'm sure that's a factor.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·And I assume you understand that on the Big12·

·Goose, Little Goose, and Prairie Dog Creeks there's a13·

·substantial amount of pre-1950 irrigation that occurs14·

·on those drainages; right?15·

· · ·· A.· ·I believe so.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·I guess, finally, with regard to the water17·

·studies that had been discussed among folks from18·

·Wyoming and Montana in mid-2000s, they never happened;19·

·right?20·

· · ·· A.· ·No, they did not.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·What happened instead was this lawsuit;22·

·correct?23·


· · ·· Q.· ·Who filed this lawsuit?25·


CHARLES DALBY - October 17, 2013Further Redirect Examination by Mr. Swanson

Page 440

· · ·· A.· ·I believe the Montana Attorney General.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·I believe you're correct.··Thank you very·2·

·much.·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Thank you.·4·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Thank you, Mr. Kaste.·5·

· · · · · · Mr. Swanson, any redirect?·6·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··Yes, Your Honor.·7·

· · · · · · · · FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION·8·


· · ·· Q.· ·Mr. Dalby, are you the best source to know --10·

·let me rephrase that.11·

· · · · · · Who is the best source to know what calls or12·

·operations, requests for water Montana would have made13·

·in 1987, '88, '89, 2000, 2001, 2002?··Are you the best14·

·source for that information?15·

· · ·· A.· ·No, I'm not.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·And are you the best source of information17·

·over what exactly was at dispute in the compact18·

·interpretation from -- in the 1980s and 1990s?19·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·I'm sorry?··You are the best source to know21·

·that dispute?22·

· · ·· A.· ·I -- I think there are a number of23·

·individuals.··I certainly have the longest track record24·

·of available individuals, I think, in this room, of25·



Page 441

·those disputes.··So I would include me in the group of·1·

·best people.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·I guess specifically I'm asking -- no, I'm·3·

·not.··I'm going to skip that.·4·

· · · · · · So in looking at the original capacity of the·5·

·Tongue River Reservoir, who would be the best source to·6·

·know about the operations and capacity of the Tongue·7·

·River Reservoir?··Would you be, or would somebody else·8·

·within DNRC?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Someone else.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Who would that be?11·

· · ·· A.· ·That would be the State Water Projects Bureau12·

·Chief, Kevin Smith.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·So you never conducted any independent14·

·analysis on the original capacity of the Tongue River15·

·Reservoir?16·

· · ·· A.· ·No.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·Is it possible that 68,000 is a typo instead18·

·of 69,000?19·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Can I just clarify?··The20·

·68,000, as that number is stated in this report?21·


· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··The question, is that a23·

·typo?24·




Page 442

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··No, not in my report it's not a·1·

·typo.·2·


· · ·· Q.· ·But in terms of looking at the final answer·4·

·on how to operate the Tongue River Reservoir and those·5·

·matters, it's your testimony that Kevin Smith would be·6·

·the best source for that information?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, he has those responsibilities.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then Mr. Kaste pointed out -- or he·9·

·stated a statement that your testimony was the10·

·reservoir should store water when it's available.··But11·

·did you actually offer any expert opinion on the12·

·operation of the Tongue Reservoir with this report?13·

· · ·· A.· ·No.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·And were you specifically focused on when the15·

·water is available in terms of the hydrograph that we16·

·looked at in Figure 5?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Would you clarify that?··Specifically focused18·

·on --19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Well, when we discussed the spring runoff and20·

·we looked at Figure 5, were you testifying specifically21·

·to when the runoff comes from Wyoming?22·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then, again, the idea of when the24·

·reservoir should store, would you agree Kevin Smith25·



Page 443

·would be the best source for that?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, he is.·2·

· · · · · · MR. SWANSON:··I have no further questions,·3·

·Your Honor.·4·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Thank you very much,·5·

·Mr. Swanson.·6·

· · · · · · Mr. Dalby, you are excused.·7·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Thank you, Your Honor.·8·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··You're welcome.··So we still·9·

·have at least 20 minutes today.··So I'd like to move on10·

·to the next witness and see how far we get.11·

· · · · · · MR. DRAPER:··Thank you, Your Honor.··We would12·

·call our next witness, Tim Davis.··Mr. Wechsler will do13·

·the examination.14·

· · · · · · (Tim Davis sworn.)15·

· · · · · · THE CLERK:··State your name and spell it for16·

·the court reporter.17·

· · · · · · MR. WECHSLER:··Your Honor, before the18·

·examination, may I approach and give the witness a19·

·stack of exhibits?20·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··That would be fine.21·

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Timothy Kane Davis,22·

·T-i-m-o-t-h-y K-a-n-e D-a-v-i-s.23·

· · · · · · MR. WECHSLER:··And before I start the24·

·examination, Your Honor, you invited the States to give25·


TIMOTHY DAVIS - October 17, 2013Direct Examination by Mr. Wechsler

Page 444

·a brief introduction to let you know when there's a new·1·

·phase of witnesses.··So with your permission, I'll do·2·

·that now.·3·

· · · · · · The next three witnesses -- Mr. Davis,·4·

·followed by Ms. Millie Heffner, and then Mr. Mike·5·

·Roberts -- are all DNRC employees.··Wyoming has raised·6·

·the issue about the regulation and administration of·7·

·water in the state of Montana.··So we're presenting·8·

·these witnesses to describe and provide an introduction·9·

·to you about how that water administration occurs.10·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Thank you.11·

· · · · · · · · · · ·· TIMOTHY DAVIS,12·

·having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:13·

· · · · · · · · · ·· DIRECT EXAMINATION14·

·BY MR. WECHSLER:15·

· · ·· Q.· ·Good afternoon, Mr. Davis.16·

· · ·· A.· ·Good afternoon.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·What is your current business address?18·

· · ·· A.· ·It's 1424 9th Avenue, Helena, Montana.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·By whom are you employed?20·

· · ·· A.· ·I'm with the Montana Department of Natural21·

·Resources and Conservation.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·In what capacity?23·

· · ·· A.· ·I'm the Water Resource and Commission24·

·administrator at the department.25·



Page 445

· · ·· Q.· ·I'll ask you in a moment about your·1·

·responsibilities in that position.··But before we get·2·

·there, I'd like to know a little bit about your·3·

·background.··So let's start with your educational·4·

·background.·5·

· · ·· A.· ·I have a bachelor of science in history from·6·

·Willamette University.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·And when did you get that degree?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·In 1994.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Following getting that degree in 1994, what's10·

·your professional -- if you could summarize your11·

·professional experience.12·

· · ·· A.· ·Since 1994, I've worked on water, land, and13·

·other natural resource management issues for a variety14·

·of primarily non-profit organizations, the last one15·

·being the Montana Smart Growth Coalition where I worked16·

·for more than 10 years prior to coming to the state of17·

·Montana.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·And you came to the state of Montana in what19·

·year?20·

· · ·· A.· ·2010.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·In your capacity as the administrator of the22·

·Water Resources Division, what are your23·

·responsibilities?24·

· · ·· A.· ·I am responsible for implementing and25·



Page 446

·carrying out the provisions of the Water Use Act or·1·

·overseeing the division's five bureaus, eight regional·2·

·offices, as well as developing and implementing new·3·

·state water policy.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·Is it fair to say that you are the chief·5·

·water official of the State of Montana?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·It is.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·Other states call that position the state·8·

·engineer?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·They do.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·But in Montana it's the administrator of the11·

·Water Resources Division?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you generally describe the subject areas14·

·you cover as the administrator of the Water Resources15·

·Division?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Water rights regulation, water adjudication,17·

·water planning, water operations, water management,18·

·flood plain and dam safety programs, as well as19·

·managing the State Water Projects.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, in carrying out your responsibilities,21·

·is it necessary to understand the rules and regulations22·

·and laws governing water in the State of Montana?23·

· · ·· A.· ·It is.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, I'm going to ask you about water25·



Page 447

·administration and regulation in Montana.··I do want to·1·

·be clear that when I'm asking you those questions, it's·2·

·really in your capacity as the administrator.··And I·3·

·don't intend to be asking you any legal questions.·4·

· · · · · · So let's talk first about the Water Resources·5·

·Division.··Generally, what are the responsibilities of·6·

·the Water Resources Division?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·Maintain a centralized database of all the·8·

·water rights in Montana; to review and process new·9·

·applications for water rights; to process changes to10·

·existing water rights; to assist the water court in the11·

·adjudication of pre-1973 water rights; enforce against12·

·illegal water uses; the -- also to manage state water13·

·projects, dams, and canals; to carry out state water14·

·planning; to oversee the state's dam safety flood plain15·

·programs, as well as other duties.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·And, again, as the administrator you oversee17·

·all of those aspects of the Water Resources Division?18·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·I'd like to get you to turn to what is before20·

·you and marked as Exhibit M232, which I believe has21·

·been previously admitted in this proceeding.··Do you22·

·have that before you?23·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·Have you ever seen this document before?25·



Page 448

· · ·· A.· ·I have.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And if you could briefly describe what it is.·2·

· · ·· A.· ·It's an organizational chart of the·3·

·Department of Natural Resources and Conservation in·4·

·Montana.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·Looking at the first page at the top, it says·6·

·the citizens of Montana, it's marked at the bottom·7·

·right-hand corner with the Bates No. MT22930.·8·

· · · · · · Can you point to the place on this particular·9·

·chart where you are?··Or if you could just describe it?10·

· · ·· A.· ·I was looking at the squiggle mark on the11·

·screen, and I wasn't sure how to navigate it.··I report12·

·directly to the director of the Department of Natural13·

·Resources and Conservation.··And I would fit in14·

·approximately there at the top of the Water Resources15·

·Division.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Very well.··Let's turn to the next page.··And17·

·this page is marked MT22931 on Montana Exhibit M232.18·

· · · · · · What is that page?19·

· · ·· A.· ·That is the overall organization chart for20·

·the Water Resources Division.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·I see at the top there, it says, Tim Davis,22·

·administrator; that is you?23·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, generally this describes five bureaus of25·



Page 449

·the Water Resources Division; correct?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·Correct.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·And then it also has a number of regions.··I·3·

·think we'll have a chance to look at each one of the·4·

·bureaus.··But I'd like you to please describe what the·5·

·regions are.·6·

· · ·· A.· ·The regional offices are really the arms of·7·

·the -- they're the offices that represent the division·8·

·across the state; there are eight of them spread across·9·

·the state.··They process water right applications.10·

·They examine pre-1973 water rights claims.··They11·

·investigate water rights complaints.··And they assist12·

·the dam safety, flood plain, and state water projects13·

·in carrying out their duties.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·Are they also available there for water users15·

·in the particular regions?16·

· · ·· A.· ·They are.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·What region has responsibility over the18·

·Tongue River in Montana?19·

· · ·· A.· ·The Billings regional office.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·I see here the regional manager, when this21·

·chart was drafted up in -- well, do you know when this22·

·chart was drafted?23·

· · ·· A.· ·I believe this chart was updated in September24·

·of this year.25·



Page 450

· · ·· Q.· ·And it shows that Ms. Kim Overcast is the·1·

·regional manager.··Is Ms. Overcast still the regional·2·

·manager?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·She is.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·When did Ms. Overcast become the regional·5·

·manager in Billings?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·In 2010.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·Prior to Ms. Overcast, who was the regional·8·

·manager?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Keith Kerbel.10·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you know how long Mr. Kerbel was the11·

·regional manager?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Not specifically.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Quite a while?14·

· · ·· A.· ·For, I believe, over a decade.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·Are you aware that Mr. Kerbel was listed as a16·

·witness for the State of Montana in this proceeding?17·

· · ·· A.· ·I am.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·Moving to the next page, which is labeled at19·

·the bottom MT22932.··And at the top, it says, Water20·

·Management Bureau.··Can you please describe what the21·

·Water Management Bureau does?22·

· · ·· A.· ·The Water Management Bureau is responsible23·

·for state water planning, conducting a state water plan24·

·every 20 years, for providing hydrologic data to water25·



Page 451

·users and watershed groups across the state, for·1·

·conducting trainings to water users as well as to water·2·

·commissioners.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·As we look down the list here, I note first·4·

·Mr. Russ Levens; do you see that?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·I believe he's been listed as a witness by·7·

·Wyoming; are you aware of that?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·I am.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·As you continue down, there's a Mr. Mike10·

·Roberts; do you see that?11·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you know what Mr. Roberts'13·

·responsibilities are?14·

· · ·· A.· ·He is a surface water hydrologist for the15·

·division.··He is also responsible for training water16·

·commissioners.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·Are you aware that Mr. Roberts will be18·

·testifying in this proceeding?19·

· · ·· A.· ·I am.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·Over to the right, we see Mr. Dalby, who we21·

·just heard from.22·

· · ·· A.· ·I see that.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, turning to the next page, labeled at the24·

·bottom MT22933 and at the top listed Water Operations25·



Page 452

·Bureau, can you please describe the Water Operations·1·

·Bureau and its responsibility?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·The Water Operations Bureau is responsible·3·

·for carrying out the state's dam safety and flood plain·4·

·programs, as well as the Board of Water Well·5·

·Contractors are administratively attached to the·6·

·bureau.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·Moving on to the next page.··At the top it·8·

·indicates the Water Projects Bureau.··Can you please·9·

·describe the Water Projects Bureau?10·

· · ·· A.· ·The Water Projects Bureau manages the11·

·state-owned reservoirs and canals.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·I believe I heard you say that the dam safety13·

·is actually covered by the Water Operations Bureau?14·

· · ·· A.· ·That's right.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you see Mr. Smith here listed at the top?16·

·Are you aware that Mr. Smith will be one of Montana's17·

·witnesses?18·

· · ·· A.· ·I am.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Moving to the next page there, indicates the20·

·Water Rights Bureau.··And could you please describe the21·

·Water Rights Bureau?22·

· · ·· A.· ·The Water Rights Bureau both processes new23·

·applications for water rights.··They also oversee24·

·changes to existing water rights.··And they maintain25·



Page 453

·the centralized database of all water rights in the·1·

·state of Montana.·2·

· · ·· Q.· ·So in the intro, before I started asking you·3·

·questions, I mentioned that Ms. Millie Heffner would be·4·

·a witness.··Do you see Ms. Heffner's name here on the·5·

·Water Rights Bureau?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·And last is the Adjudication Bureau.··Can you·8·

·please describe the Adjudication Bureau?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·The Adjudication Bureau serves as an arm of10·

·the Montana Water Court, primarily examining pre-197311·

·water rights for the adjudication process but also12·

·providing assistance to the water court and resolving13·

·issue remarks that are put on to water rights claims14·

·through the adjudication process and providing15·

·assistance for district courts when they are16·

·distributing and enforcing decrees.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·We'll get to this a little bit more in detail18·

·when we're discussing adjudications and the process in19·

·Montana.20·

· · · · · · Could you give us a little introduction into21·

·what an issue remark is?22·

· · ·· A.· ·When the department is reviewing pre-197323·

·water rights claims, if we find that there are24·

·discrepancies with the claim that doesn't comply with25·



Page 454

·the -- what are known as the Montana Supreme Court·1·

·rules for claims examination, we put those issue·2·

·remarks, we note that discrepancy on the water right·3·

·itself.··And the issue remark needs to be resolved·4·

·before a decree can be final.·5·

· · ·· Q.· ·And we'll talk about how those issues are·6·

·resolved when we talk about the adjudication.·7·

· · · · · · So I'd like you to look now, please, at·8·

·what's been previously marked as Montana Exhibit M230,·9·

·which should be before you.10·

· · ·· A.· ·I have it.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you please describe this document?12·

· · ·· A.· ·This is a document that the State of Montana13·

·updates, I believe, annually in order to provide public14·

·education on water rights to citizens as well as15·

·legislators in the state.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·If I could get you to turn to page number 1,17·

·little i, which is marked in the bottom right-hand18·

·corner as MT22730; do you have that?19·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·And this indicates that this is a compilation21·

·from two previous citizen guides; do you see that?22·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·Is that your understanding?24·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.25·



Page 455

· · ·· Q.· ·And was the Montana DNRC one of the authors·1·

·of this publication?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·Turning to the front page of that document,·4·

·and it indicates at the bottom under the picture, this·5·

·document has been updated to reflect Montana's statute·6·

·and rules as of April 2012; did I read that correctly?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·Were you the administrator of the Water·9·

·Resources Division in 2012?10·

· · ·· A.· ·I was.11·

· · · · · · MR. WECHSLER:··Your Honor, at this point,12·

·we'd move the admission of Montana M230.13·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··Relevance.··I have no idea what14·

·it has to do with their breach of contract claim.15·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··So just to be clear, this16·

·was one that we did not admit earlier?17·

· · · · · · MR. WECHSLER:··This was not a document, Your18·

·Honor, that was admitted.··And if you'd like, I'd be19·

·happy to respond to Mr. Kaste's --20·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··No, it's okay.··I'm going to21·

·admit this.22·


·BY MR. WECHSLER:24·

· · ·· Q.· ·If I could get you, please, to turn to page25·



Page 456

·1 -- well, first, I understand that you actually·1·

·brought a hard copy of this document.··If you could·2·

·just show the Special Master what this looks like in·3·

·published form.·4·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Thank you.·5·

·BY MR. WECHSLER:·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·Are these made available to Montana water·7·

·users?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·They are.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you regularly give them out?10·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·About how many a year would you estimate?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Several hundred.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Turning to page 1 of this document.··At the14·

·top it indicates background of water rights in Montana.15·

· · ·· A.· ·I see it.16·

· · ·· Q.· ·Midway down, after the block, indented17·

·quotes, it says, "Water rights in Montana are guided by18·

·the prior appropriation doctrine that is first in time19·

·is first in right"; do you see that?20·

· · ·· A.· ·I do.21·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you understand that Montana water rights22·

·are guided by the prior appropriation doctrine?23·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·What do you understand that doctrine to be25·



Page 457

·about?·1·

· · ·· A.· ·As the document indicates, it's usually·2·

·described as the first in time is first in right.··And·3·

·a priority date for a water right is established when·4·

·water either is put to use or a water right is filed.·5·

·And that a more senior priority date, a senior water·6·

·right, has priority over junior water rights when·7·

·receiving their water.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·In your experience as administrator of the·9·

·Water Resources Division, are there any aspects of10·

·Montana regulation or administration that are not11·

·consistent with the doctrine of appropriation?12·

· · ·· A.· ·No.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·And in your role as the top water official of14·

·Montana, do you have the opportunity to interact with15·

·other top water officials from other states?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·Can you give an example of where that18·

·happens?19·

· · ·· A.· ·I've represented the State of Montana for20·

·several years on the Western States Water Council,21·

·which is a body made up of -- aligned with the Western22·

·Governors' Association, made up of water officials from23·

·a variety of western states.24·

· · ·· Q.· ·At those meetings, do you have the25·



Page 458

·opportunity to discuss water regulation and·1·

·administration in other states?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·And have you had a chance to generally·4·

·understand some of the practices -- other prior·5·

·appropriation states?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, generally.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·And based on this understanding, is it your·8·

·experience that all prior appropriation states have the·9·

·exact same rules for water regulation administration?10·

· · ·· A.· ·No.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Would you say there's a fair amount of12·

·variety?13·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·Now, do you have some familiarity with the15·

·Yellowstone River Compact?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·And have you read the compact itself?18·

· · ·· A.· ·I have.19·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you have any responsibilities with regard20·

·to the compact?21·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I'm currently Montana's commissioner on22·

·the Yellowstone River Compact Commission.23·

· · ·· Q.· ·How long have you had that position?24·

· · ·· A.· ·A matter of months.25·



Page 459

· · ·· Q.· ·And when do you understand the Yellowstone·1·

·River Compact to have been entered?·2·

· · ·· A.· ·1950.·3·

· · ·· Q.· ·So what I want to ask you about is I·4·

·understand there's a division date in the way Montana·5·

·administered water based on an act that occurred in·6·

·1973.··So I want to ask you about the way water was·7·

·regulated and administered prior to 1973.··And then·8·

·we'll move on, and we'll talk about how it occurred·9·

·after 1973.10·

· · · · · · First, as I do that, in this case there's a11·

·number of -- there's language that is inconsistent12·

·between the way Wyoming uses it and the way Montana13·

·uses it.··So I want to make clear the way you14·

·understand certain words.··So, for example, the term15·

·"regulate water," what do you understand that term to16·

·mean?17·

· · ·· A.· ·In Montana, to regulate water is a permitting18·

·or change of -- it's permitting of new appropriation of19·

·water rights or a change of an existing water right.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you have an understanding of how they use21·

·that term in Wyoming?22·

· · ·· A.· ·I believe they use it for -- Wyoming uses it23·

·for water distribution and enforcement purposes by24·

·priority.25·



Page 460

· · ·· Q.· ·So turning to the other term that I·1·

·mentioned, "water administration."··How do you·2·

·understand the term "water administration"?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·In Montana, we use the term water·4·

·administration to define water distribution and·5·

·enforcement by priority.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··So at the time of the compact in 1950,·7·

·and, in fact, prior to 1973, generally how was a water·8·

·right established in Montana?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·Typically a water right was established by10·

·putting the water to a beneficial use.··But you could11·

·also file a -- what's known as a use right.··You could12·

·also establish a filed right by filing with -- filing13·

·your water right with the clerk of a district court.14·

· · ·· Q.· ·So the distinction between those two rights15·

·was whether or not you went to the district court and16·

·actually filed papers on that right?17·

· · ·· A.· ·Generally, yes.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·And prior to 1973, who was responsible for19·

·regulating water rights?20·

· · ·· A.· ·Do you -- by regulating, do you mean21·

·administering?22·

· · ·· Q.· ·I don't.··I mean permitting as you've23·

·described it.24·

· · ·· A.· ·There was no entity that was responsible for25·



Page 461

·permitting water rights prior to 1973 in Montana.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·No central agency; it simply was filed with·2·

·the various district courts?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Or put to use prior.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·And so prior to -- turning now to water·5·

·administration, meaning distribution, was there a·6·

·process in place for a water user to make a call?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·8·

· · ·· Q.· ·And what was that process?·9·

· · ·· A.· ·It was an informal process -- initially an10·

·informal process communication between two water users.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you have before you Exhibit M243?12·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.13·

· · ·· Q.· ·Well, actually, before we go to M243, let me14·

·just ask you is -- prior to 1950, was a written call15·

·required?16·

· · ·· A.· ·No.17·

· · ·· Q.· ·And could you simply make an informal call on18·

·your neighbor?19·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·Did it have to take any particular form?21·

· · ·· A.· ·No.22·

· · ·· Q.· ·Did it have to be from any particular person23·

·to any other particular person?24·

· · ·· A.· ·No.25·



Page 462

· · ·· Q.· ·Okay.··Now, turning to Exhibit M243, which I·1·

·believe has previously been admitted.·2·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Yes.·3·

·BY MR. WECHSLER:·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you recognize this document?·5·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·6·

· · ·· Q.· ·What is this?·7·

· · ·· A.· ·This is the Miles -- what's commonly known as·8·

·the Miles City Decree.·9·

· · ·· Q.· ·And so prior to 1973, was it possible to do10·

·an adjudication?11·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.12·

· · ·· Q.· ·And, in fact, this is an example of an13·

·adjudication that was done prior to 19 --14·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.15·

· · ·· Q.· ·How were those adjudications done?16·

· · ·· A.· ·Typically a -- if a water user wanted to have17·

·an adjudication conducted on a basin or a reach, stream18·

·or a reach prior to 1973, they would have had to sue19·

·the other water users within the reach.20·

· · ·· Q.· ·And, in fact, if you look at the caption of21·

·this case, you see here that this is the Miles City22·

·Canal and Irrigating Company versus -- and there's a23·

·whole number of other water users listed there;24·

·correct?25·



Page 463

· · ·· A.· ·Right.·1·

· · ·· Q.· ·And this is the judgment and decree in that·2·

·case?·3·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·4·

· · ·· Q.· ·So now we're talking prior to 1973.··Are you·5·

·familiar with the term "water commissioner"?·6·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.·7·

· · ·· Q.· ·What is a water commissioner?·8·

· · ·· A.· ·A water commissioner is appointed by a·9·

·district court judge in Montana in order to distribute10·

·water according to priority.11·

· · ·· Q.· ·How would a -- prior to 1973, how would a12·

·water commissioner have been appointed?13·

· · ·· A.· ·They would have been appointed that if a14·

·decree -- similar like this decree, like the Miles City15·

·Decree had been established, a commissioner then could16·

·be appointed by the district court to administer water17·

·according to the priority.18·

· · ·· Q.· ·Do you know if there were any water19·

·commissioners that were appointed prior to 1973?20·

· · ·· A.· ·Yes.21·

· · · · · · MR. WECHSLER:··Your Honor, I'm trying to be22·

·mindful of time.··I'm ready to move on to post-197323·

·water rights, which I'm happy to do.··But if you'd24·

·like, I could break here as well.25·



Page 464

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··So let me just ask whether·1·

·or not people are going to be moving boxes this·2·

·afternoon, which is highly relevant here.·3·

· · · · · · MR. KASTE:··I believe we are; is that right?·4·

· · · · · · SPECIAL MASTER:··Okay.··Then I think this is·5·

·a very appropriate place to break.··And so, Mr. Davis,·6·

·I'm sorry to have to ask you to come back again on·7·

·Monday, but that's exactly what I'm going to do.·8·

· · · · · · And so we will be in recess until 9:00 a.m.·9·

·on Monday morning when we will be in the Powder River10·

·courtroom.··I'm sorry.··I'm confusing my various11·

·rivers.··So in the Big Horn courtroom.··And so, as I12·

·said, we're in recess.13·

· · · · · · · · · · · (Trial Proceedings recessed at14·

· · · · · · · · · · · 4:32 p.m., October 17, 2013.)15·

·16·

·17·

·18·

·19·

·20·

·21·

·22·

·23·

·24·

·25·


Page 465

· · · · · · · · ·· REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE·1··· ·· · · · · · I, Vonni R. Bray, a Certified Realtime·2··· ··Reporter, certify that the foregoing transcript,·3··· ··consisting of 118, is a true and correct record of the·4··· ··proceedings given at the time and place hereinbefore·5··· ··mentioned; that the proceedings were reported by me in·6··· ··machine shorthand and thereafter reduced to typewriting·7··· ··using computer-assisted transcription.·8··· ·· · · · · · I further certify that I am not attorney for,·9··· ··nor employed by, nor related to any of the parties or10··· ··attorneys to this action, nor financially interested in11··· ··this action.12··· ·· · · · · · IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have set my hand at13··· ··Laurel, Montana, this 10th day of February, 2014.14··· ··15··· ··16··· ·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· ______________________________17·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· Vonni R. Bray, RPR, CRR· ·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· P.O. Box 12518·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· Laurel, MT 59044· ·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· (406) 670-9533 - Cell19·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· (888) 277-9372 - Fax· ·· · · · · · · · · · · · ·· [email protected]··· ··21··· ··22··· ··23··· ··24··· ··25·


Documents

Stanford Universityweb.stanford.edu/dept/law/mvn/pdf/1-Volume_2_Part_2_of_2.pdf· · · · · · · · · ·· No. 137, Original · · · · ·· IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED