Space Needs-Approved 1 October 24, 2001

SPACE NEEDS COMMITTEE

The Space Needs Committee met at 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday, October 24, 2001, in the First Floor Conference Room “A” of the County Administration Building, 1840 25th Street, Vero Beach, Florida.

Present were Caroline D. Ginn, Chairman; Sandra Bowden, Joe Idlette and Dr.

Ruth Twitchell, Commissioner Ruth Stanbridge’s Appointees; Chuck Mechling (Developer), Frank Coffey (Business) and Bill Glynn, Commissioner John Tippin’s Appointees; W. Kent Barclay (Arts in Public Places), Bill Johnson and Phil Mank, Commissioner Ken Macht’s Appointees; Gene Winne (Financial and The Civic Association of Indian River County), Arthur Jewett (Engineer) and Ital Veron (Architect and Taxpayers’ Association), Commissioner Caroline Ginn’s Appointees; and Ed Netto (General Contractor), Appointed by Consensus of the County Commission.

Absent were Penny Chandler, Charles Sullivan, Sr., and Bill Mills (all excused). Also present were Tom Frame, General Services Director; Bob Keating and Stan

Boling, Community Development Department; Dennis Ragsdale, City of Vero Beach; Michael Busha, Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council (TCRPC); Paul Greene, Interested Citizen; Henry Stephens, Press Journal and Reta Smith, Assistant to the Executive Aide. Call to Order

Chairman Ginn called the meeting to order.

Approval of the Minutes of September 20, 2001

ON MOTION by Mr. Mank, SECONDED by Mr. Veron, the Committee voted unanimously (14-0) to approve the minutes of September 20, 2001, as submitted.

Presentation on Civic Buildings – Michael Busha, Executive Director, Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council (TCRPC) Chairman Ginn introduced Mr. Busha to the Committee members. She mentioned Mr. Busha had asked if the Committee members had seen a well-planned administration building that worked, and Chairman Ginn admitted so far they had not done so. Mr. Busha had recommended Osceola County, and Chairman Ginn suggested scheduling a tour of the Osceola County Administration Building in Kissimmee.

Space Needs-Approved 2 October 24, 2001

ON MOTION by Mr. Glynn, SECONDED by Mr. Jewett, the Committee voted unanimously (14-0) to approve taking a tour of the Osceola County Administration Building in November.

Mr. Coffey noted it had been a year since the Committee had first met, and they had said it would be wrapped up by December, yet they were still continuing to look at other places. Chairman Ginn thought it was important to take this trip because everything else the members had looked at pretty well indicated what should not be done, as opposed to something that had been done right. A discussion followed.

Mr. Busha explained the TCRPC had been working in towns and cities all over the state helping them with redevelopment problems. He asserted he was not here to try and tell anyone where to put the new County Administration Building, but rather to discuss universal designs and how to locate and place civic buildings.

Mr. Busha gave a PowerPoint presentation entitled Civic Presence in Towns and

Cities, and a copy of this is on file in the Commission office. He stressed the importance of locating civic buildings in cities and towns, and described the elements of competitive, convenient and livable cities. Mr. Busha noted recent census numbers had shown the first signs of stabilization and increase in population in most United States cities since the 1940’s. He showed pictures depicting the placement of civic buildings within a public space, around a public space, at the termination of an axis, or all three together. Mr. Busha mentioned that throughout history, up until the 1950’s, civic structures were architecturally the best buildings in town. He suggested some rules of thumb would be to reserve the classical architecture or language, such as columns, arches, pediments or cupolas for civic buildings, while also reserving sites for public art. He showed some examples of different types of architecture for civic buildings. He discussed the merits of having small buildings fronting a plaza versus megabuildings fronting a parking lot. Mr. Busha reviewed the option of dispersing civic buildings in a city or concentrating them at the core, and exhibited examples of each. He talked about how to handle parking, adding the parking lots should be hidden. He illustrated several methods that could be used to make parking lots and parking garages less conspicuous and not detract from the neighborhood.

Mr. Busha told the Committee that whatever site they decided on for the new

building, the streets leading up to it should be pedestrian friendly and encourage people

Space Needs-Approved 3 October 24, 2001

to walk. He commented there were some pretty important streets around the existing site, and Aviation Boulevard seemed to him to be a connection that could be made and it would actually help the downtown draw traffic in from a different direction.

Mr. Busha mentioned location by the numbers, adding it was important to be

within a reasonable proximity of the population. He noted within a 5-mile radius there were 71,000 people or 62% of the total population of the County. He stated there were over 2,000 employees of the City of Vero Beach and Indian River County who were within a 5 minute walk of the present location, and those people ate out and ran errands and should be some place convenient to where they worked. He cautioned a lot of cities and towns were struggling, and removing all those employees from the equation wouldn’t help the City of Vero Beach.

Mr. Veron declared in some instances when a major structure, such as a civic

building, was placed away from an existing urban center it could set the beginning of urban sprawl, and he asked Mr. Busha to comment.

Mr. Busha agreed it was a chicken and egg type of thing, and usually what came

first were the buildings, then the big roads to get out to them and then other offices locating around them. He felt the City of Vero Beach had something very valuable because there was an authentic town that would be even more special in the future. He thought removing one of its major buildings and putting it out in the middle of nowhere would have a major impact and recommended the Administration Building should stay in the City.

Mr. Coffey asked Mr. Busha about the cost of a single building versus multiple

buildings. Mr. Busha suggested it should be judged on the basis of what the contribution would be to the neighborhood, rather than parking lots everywhere, if the buildings actually improved the surrounding areas. He thought the cost of what it would cost to build multiple buildings would be recovered in the long run if they added value to surrounding properties, rather than taking away from them

Mr. Busha promised to provide Chairman Ginn with a copy of his presentation so

the members could use it in their deliberations. He agreed to attend another meeting to show how 17th, 18th and 20th Avenues could connect the Administration Building to beautify the location, if it was decided to stay on the property owned by the County.

Mr. Glynn wanted to make a motion to narrow things down to certain sites, however Chairman Ginn emphasized it was necessary to get through more of the process before making any motions. She perceived the Committee had been criticized in the newspapers for not looking at everything and not thinking outside the box.

The Committee members thanked Mr. Busha for his presentation and gave him a

Space Needs-Approved 4 October 24, 2001

big hand for his efforts.

Presentation by Dennis Ragsdale, Planning Director, City of Vero Beach Mr. Ragsdale passed out information regarding ownership and use data around the Twin Pairs property that was presented to the Committee at the last meeting, and this is on file in the Commission office. He showed a concept design of what might be possible, specifying the site could easily accommodate 240,000 square feet with a courtyard in between the buildings. He suggested if the Courthouse parking garage were extended, the first floor of the garage could be used for County offices and overflow from the Courthouse or other professional offices. He discussed a possible enhancement program for the Twin Pairs that the City was working on, which would likely take in another block for the County project.

Mr. Ragsdale exhibited a graphic of the Maxwell site, and illustrated how it could be a workable location for a new Administration Building. He mentioned there could be a chance of slight contamination at the site, although he had not been able to find any documentation in this regard. He iterated the City of Vero Beach was very interested in keeping a new Administration Building downtown, and his staff would be happy to work on design or obtaining more data for any of the sites that had been discussed.

The Committee gave Mr. Ragsdale a hand for his presentation. Presentation by Ital Veron Mr. Veron recalled the County Administrator had reduced the projected staffing levels for 2020 from 507 to 450. He reviewed his memorandum dated October 8, 2001, on file in the Commission office, which outlined potential further reductions in the County Attorney’s office, the Board of County Commission (BCC) office and the offices of the Constitutionals, to bring the projection down to 419 people. He advised one position meant approximately $35,000 in additional funding for the new building, figuring $104 per square foot and allowing 350 square feet per person.

A discussion followed about whether or not the County Commissioners each needed a personal secretary.

Mr. Coffey commented one of the problems he saw was the County Administrator

not being in a position to control the Constitutional Officers, as far as their needs were concerned. He didn’t think the Administrator would take any position other than the Constitutionals would be provided whatever space they thought they needed. He felt it would be very difficult to come to a different number than what the County Administrator and his assistant had recommended.

Space Needs-Approved 5 October 24, 2001

A discussion ensued about how many square feet per person would be needed.

Presentation by Frank Coffey Mr. Coffey said he would like to begin with a plea once again for the Committee to come to grips as to how many people were going to be designed for and how many square feet would be needed. He referred to his Possible Outline for Presentation to the County Commissioners and Public Workshop, a copy of which is on file in the Commission office. He perceived a presentation would be made to the BCC, and hoped they would support a workshop for input from the public. He also visualized at least two or three members of the Space Needs Committee would participate in the presentations. He acknowledged this was just a “bare bones” outline, but he felt it was a start in the right direction, and asked the members to think about it for the next meeting. Mr. Veron suggested adding an implementation plan of where things were to go from here. Mr. Coffey agreed that might go under the Recommendations section. He noted he had filled out his sheets from the last meeting, on file in the Commission office, and he and Chairman Ginn shared their comments. She asked the other Committee members to fill out their sheets with their suggestions and turn them in. Chairman Ginn announced Mr. Victor Knight, who had been scheduled to speak today, could not be present at this time. Presentation by Paul Greene Mr. Greene related he was offering a 15-acre site at the Whisper Lakes Golf Driving Range on the corner of 53rd Street and U.S. #1, plus 4 acres of water retention on the adjacent Grand Harbor property. He specified it was large enough for either a village or single building close to what he thought was eventually going to be the area of the majority of the County populace.

A discussion ensued about whether or not 53rd Street could be extended. Mr. Greene

detailed he thought $4.00 per square foot was a fair market value for the property, which would be about $2.6 million for 15 acres. The Committee thanked Mr. Greene for his presentation. Old Business

Space Needs-Approved 6 October 24, 2001

Chairman Ginn recalled Mr. Veron wanted to make a motion and she asked the Committee to be careful about their motions at this point in time, because we were not done with the full process. She felt it was important to make sure everything had been examined. Mr. Veron submitted two sheets of paper to the secretary, outlining all of the reasons why it would not be feasible to further consider the Vero Mall as an option for the proposed County Administration Building, and these are on file in the Commission office. He proceeded to read aloud from the list.

ON MOTION by Mr. Veron, SECONDED by Mr. Coffey, to recommend against further consideration of the Vero Mall as an option for the proposed County Administration Building.

Mr. Barclay noted the idea of locating a new Administration Building at the Vero Mall

site seemed to be very popular among the people of the County. He wondered if it was necessary for the Committee to create another stir within the community right now, and thought it would be better to wait until later and take all the properties into consideration. Chairman Ginn commented if the Vero Mall could be redeveloped as commercial property it would be its highest and best use. She said she would leave it up to the Committee to decide if the motion was premature or not. She acknowledged that a previous motion not to renovate the present Administration Building had created a storm, but she felt no one realized the amount of work that had been done by the Committee. Chairman Ginn said she would make it her business next week to talk to the Editorial Editor at the Press Journal to show him what the Committee had looked at so far. Mr. Veron withdrew his motion and Mr. Coffey withdrew his second. A discussion followed about the article on space needs that had appeared in the Press Journal. Mr. Coffey suggested Chairman Ginn give an update at the next BCC meeting on what the Space Needs Committee had been working on. New Business – Meeting Dates Chairman Ginn set Wednesday, November 28th for the Osceola trip. She suggested skipping December’s meeting and reconvening at 1:30 p.m. on January 9, 2002. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:50 p.m.