Session 262 Blagojevich Home Nov 5 2008

7/24/2019 Session 262 Blagojevich Home Nov 5 2008

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DATE: 11/05/2008TIME: 8:58 A.M.ACTIVITY: Rod Blagojevich home line incoming call.

SESSION: 262

SPEAKERS:

BLAGOJEVICH: Rod Blagojevich

HARRIS: John Harris

* * * * *

1 BLAGOJEVICH Hey.

2 HARRIS Hey.

3 BLAGOJEVICH See, one thing, as, as bad as it would4 be, appointin' myself, and I just felt5

that yesterday. Didn't you?

6

HARRIS Mm-hmm.

7

BLAGOJEVICH Did you or no?

8 HARRIS Why? You mean the people?

9 BLAGOJEVICH But the average person I don't think it10 really, it will be the pundits, won't11 it?

12

HARRIS Oh, it'll be the pundits, it won't be13 the average people.

14

BLAGOJEVICH Okay, good. So (stutters) I cannot15

dismiss that real possibility. If they16

fuckin' treat me with fuckin', you know,17

ir-, irrelevance and I don't get18

something good. I, you know, and I'm19

facing what I'm facing. We've always20 got that ace in the hole, don't we?

21HARRIS Right.

22 BLAGOJEVICH Right?

23 HARRIS Right.

24 BLAGOJEVICH You would play that card, wouldn't ya'?

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1 HARRIS If they're, if they're fucking me and2 they're...

3

BLAGOJEVICH Yeah.

4

HARRIS ...not even entertaining a...

BLAGOJEVICH Right.

6 HARRIS ...a reasonable request?

7 BLAGOJEVICH Right.

8 HARRIS You know. The question now is what's a9 reasonable request.

BLAGOJEVICH Right.

11

HARRIS And if, it's a function of how important12

it is to him too.

13

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm.

14 HARRIS You know, if I were him, um, you know, atop cabinet post, I don't, I wouldn't

16 consider it. I wouldn't do it if I were17 him.

18 BLAGOJEVICH I agree with you.

19

HARRIS To be honest with you.

BLAGOJEVICH Because of Rezko.

21

HARRIS Because of Rezko and just because that's22

not how I'm gonna build my team. It's23

like the mayor, when we, whenever we24

filled, you know, top positions in citygovernment?

26 BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm.

27 HARRIS You know, we never let political people28 tell us who to put there. You can have29 deputy commissioners, you can have

assistant commissioners, you can have31 directors. Right? But his philosophy32 was you never let somebody pick your top

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1 guy. In your Cabinet. You know in2 your, in your important Cabinet3

positions.

4

BLAGOJEVICH (Clears throat)

HARRIS And if, you know, if, the, his domestic6 agenda's important. So, HHS is, I'm not7 going to make that a political pick. I8 mean, meaning someone else's politics.9 It's going to be my politics.

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm. I, I, listen, I totally agree11 with you. So beyond Rezko, it's beyond12 Rezko.

13 HARRIS Right.

14

BLAGOJEVICH Yeah. But, I know. On the other hand,that might be your pick, but your pick

16

could be a political guy.

17

HARRIS Yes.

18 BLAGOJEVICH It could be Tommy Thompson.

19 HARRIS Yes.

BLAGOJEVICH The governor of Wisconsin.

21

HARRIS But it's your pick.

22 BLAGOJEVICH Huh?

23

HARRIS Ah, but it's your pick, you know.

24

BLAGOJEVICH Okay, go back to your thought though,okay, so, that one, I agree with. What

26

else?

27 HARRIS So you, you know, you laid it all on the28

battlefield. I gotta find some peace in29 my life. (Chuckles) 'Cause...

BLAGOJEVICH Well not peace I just, I, I, you know.31 I gotta figure out a way to, you know,32 work through this or, you know, be in a33 place where I can get things done. That

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1 kind of thing, right?

2

HARRIS Right, right. And, you know, it may be3

that I, uh, it may be that I'm not able4

to get anything more done here.

BLAGOJEVICH Right.

6 HARRIS So where uh, where do I go from here to7 get things done for people... and I8 think I can be helpful to Barack. And9 advancing his agenda. After all, much

of his domestic agenda is what we've11 been doing here in Illinois. And what12 he, he's modeled it after.


14

HARRIS So how can I best help him...

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm.

16

HARRIS ...do that.

17 BLAGOJEVICH Mm hmm.

18 HARRIS Those, and maybe you put it that way if,19 if you wanna' let them come back with an

offer.

21

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

22 HARRIS Instead of starting with the, you know,23

let them feel like they're insulting24

you. Ma-, let them make the offer.It's like when you're bidding on a

26

house.

27

BLAGOJEVICH Let me hear it.

28 HARRIS It's kinda' like, how much you want for29

the house. Tell me how much you'll giveme. You know, why low, uh, you know,31 you might shoot low. And if, and if32 they come in low they might insult you.33 So if they come in and say, you know,34 we'll make you assistant secretary of

Labor. Right?

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2

HARRIS Say, oh come on. Fuck that. And then

3

you kinda' shut down the negotiations.

4

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm.

HARRIS And then you say, yeah, okay fine, I'll,6 I'll just keep going through with my7 process.

8 BLAGOJEVICH I think I'd rather be, I'd think I'd9 rather be a senator.

HARRIS Yeah.

11 BLAGOJEVICH Right?

12

HARRIS I'd rather be a senator.

13

BLAGOJEVICH Yeah.

14

HARRIS I'll, I'll just continue with myprocess. And let them come back with a

16 higher bid. Oh fuck, he, he ignored our17 bid. I'm using the term metaphorically.

18 BLAGOJEVICH Let's go back to what, okay. So you19 reject the Department of Health and

Human Services, or any Cabinet position21

like that. An assistant you22 think...oooph, forget that. That's a,23 give me uh, let's go down the pecking24

order. What would be good? Down thepecking order. Uh, Ambassador to the

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U.N.

27

HARRIS No way.

28 BLAGOJEVICH Right? Keep going.

29HARRIS You know, I wouldn't do anyambassadorships. I mean Obama would do

31 amba-, ambassadorships.

32 BLAGOJEVICH He would?

33 HARRIS Yeah, I think he'd do ambassadorships.

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1 BLAGOJEVICH Okay. I'm interested. How about India?2 South Africa? How about India? India's3

vital.

4

HARRIS Yeah, India's vital. I'd say India...

BLAGOJEVICH Is that realistic or would he reject6 that?

7 HARRIS No, that's realistic.

8 BLAGOJEVICH Is it?

9 HARRIS I think so.

BLAGOJEVICH No shit.

11 HARRIS Indonesia is just as good as In-, India.12

In terms of, I mean we could have DCO13

give us a big, do some research on14

trading partners with the U.S.

BLAGOJEVICH Get that quietly. Just trading partners16 with the U.S., right?

17 HARRIS Right.

18 BLAGOJEVICH Indonesia, it, okay, India, you think19 India's not out of the realm of

possibility, huh?

21 HARRIS Well, no, I take that back, 'cause I22 don't know who his Indian donors are.23

You know, in terms of he might uh...

24

BLAGOJEVICH I don't, understand that, but I don'tthink he's gonna' put an Indian there.

26

I don't think he'd put an Indian...

27 HARRIS That would seem to be much more28 professional person, lot of credentials.

29 BLAGOJEVICH That's what I think, it's vital.

HARRIS Vital, big, you know, corporate CEO31 type.

32 BLAGOJEVICH Yeah. However, I'm a corp-, I'm a CEO.

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1 A 58 billion dollar corporation.2 (Clears throat) I don't think it's an3

Indian donor. I don't think you put an4

Indian donor to be ambassador of India,5

who's got conflicting loyalties. Do you6

follow me?

7 HARRIS Mm-hmm.

8 BLAGOJEVICH Huh?

9 HARRIS Right.

10 BLAGOJEVICH John Kenneth Galbraith used to be11 ambassador to In-, India. I mean, who's12 there now? You see what I'm saying.13 You gotta look and see who's been, who's14 done those. So you think that's out of15

the realm of possibility or not? Too16

high?

17

HARRIS Too important a trading partner.

18 BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm. Let's not, li-, listen, uh, uh,19 let's not, uh, I hear what you're20 saying.

21 HARRIS Yeah.

22 BLAGOJEVICH On the other hand, Bill Daley was23

commerce secretary. What the fuck were24 hi-, were his credentials? Ron Brown25 was commerce secretary. The commerce26

secretary is much bigger than ambassador27

to India. Right?

28

HARRIS Mm-hmm.

29

BLAGOJEVICH Right or wrong?

30 HARRIS Right. No, I think the commerce31

secretary is a huge job.

32 BLAGOJEVICH Right. So I'm the governor of a 5833 billion dollar corporation. Why can't I34 be ambassador to India?

35 (PAUSE)

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1 BLAGOJEVICH What do you got? Because that Senate2 seat doesn't mean that much to him.

3

HARRIS Yeah, just India's just such a vital,4

vital...

BLAGOJEVICH What's more important? Commerce6 secretary or ambassador to India?

7 HARRIS Commerce secretary.

8 BLAGOJEVICH Okay. I think I've got a bigger resume9 than Bill Daley had before he went,

became commerce secretary.

11 HARRIS Yeah, but that wasn't about Bill Daley.12 That was about Rich Daley.

13

BLAGOJEVICH Okay. Fair enough. That's my point.

14

HARRIS Yeah.

BLAGOJEVICH This is about the governor of his home16 state and a U.S. senator. Alright,17 anyway...

18 HARRIS Mm-hmm.

19 BLAGOJEVICH What do you think? Unreachable or, youknow, not necessarily unreachable, but

21

hard to get. What category?

22 HARRIS Hard, hard to get. I'd put it, you23

know, in the, you know, right of hard,24

but not unreas-, not im-, notimpossible.

26

BLAGOJEVICH Not like uh...

27 HARRIS Not like U.N. ambassador.

28BLAGOJEVICH Correct or DH, Health and Human29 Services.

HARRIS ...(UI) right.

31 BLAGOJEVICH Germany, England, France...Canada.

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1 HARRIS All those easier than India.

2

BLAGOJEVICH Okay.

3

(PAUSE)

4

HARRIS Yeah it's, it's the, it's the, it's the,5 it's the Rezko issue. Less so... I6 think your qualifications are there.7 For example, let me, let me illustrate8 that point. By saying, you could be a9 fine secretary of Veteran's Affairs,

10 right?


12 HARRIS Probably better than Tammy could be.

13

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm.

14

HARRIS Right?

15

BLAGOJEVICH Mm-hmm.

16 HARRIS But he'd rather have Tammy in that spot17 than you.

18 BLAGOJEVICH Sure.

19 HARRIS So it's not just, you know, a question20

of your abilities...

21 (PAUSE)

22

BLAGOJEVICH What about the private sector? How23

important would that be? Can he put24

something together there?

25

HARRIS Help you get something in the private26 sector?

27BLAGOJEVICH Something big.

28 (PAUSE)

29 HARRIS I don't, I don't see how...

30 BLAGOJEVICH No?

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1 HARRIS ...he gets a board of directors. I mean2 he can probably get you on a board...or3

boards. You know, have influence there.

4

* * * * *

HARRIS ...uh...how about these foundations6 that, you know, let's, I don't know,7 Family U.S.A., let's say, right?


9 HARRIS That's um, you know, umm, I don't knowall the names of these groups that

11 support of our agenda.

12 BLAGOJEVICH Like the Kaiser Foundation, places like13 that. Families U.S. ...

14

HARRIS The Kaiser Foundation, right, say hey, Ithink you ought to make the governor the

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president of the Kaiser Foundation.17

Right?

18 BLAGOJEVICH Yeah.

19 HARRIS It has a board and it's gonna keepeverything going, right?


22 HARRIS It's like when Elizabeth Dole was head23 of the Red Cross.

24

BLAGOJEVICH That's what, that's, that's somethinglike that. Right.

26

HARRIS Something like that.

27 BLAGOJEVICH Right. How do we do homework on that?

28HARRIS We'll start, start looking at all these29 foundations.

BLAGOJEVICH Do it right away, will ya'?

31 HARRIS Yeah.

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1 BLAGOJEVICH See what they pay?

2

HARRIS

That's, that to me is...

3

BLAGOJEVICH

That'd be...

4

HARRIS ...probably their, the middle of roadkind of, it's, it's more philosophical

6 than, you know, I want somebody at the7 head of this organization and yeah,8 yeah, I helped. I recommended him,9 whatever. It doesn't have to be, I gave

it to him. It's I recommended him.11 He's got a buffer there. Because he can12 impress upon the board.

13 BLAGOJEVICH And then I can be out there advocating14 like health care, things like that.

HARRIS

Right. Right.

16

BLAGOJEVICH

Look into that.

17 HARRIS In terms of political comeback, you18 know, just like Elizabeth Dole.

19 BLAGOJEVICH Well that's exactly right. The RedCross is great. (Chuckles) Can you get

21 that?

22

HARRIS I mean, it's gotta be a group that is23 dependent on Obama. You know, heavy24 federal reliance.

BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

26

HARRIS The Red Cross is not so. They got their27

own, you know, 100 year...


29HARRIS

...reputation, that I don't think apresident can influence.

31 BLAGOJEVICH You're thinking right here. Look into32 all of those. Give me some that would33 be, what's Families USA. What is that?

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1 HARRIS Yeah, I, I don't know, I don't know who2 they are or what they are and that kinda3

stuff and, but I'm sure the CEO4

positions, pay, right, of thosefoundations.

6

BLAGOJEVICH Should I have Greenlee look this up or7 you wanna' do it?

8 HARRIS I was going to go to Greenlee's people9 since they know all these foundations

so... If you want to talk to him about11 it...

12 BLAGOJEVICH But I don't want this spreading around.

13 HARRIS No, no, I'll just, we'll do it quietly.

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BLAGOJEVICH Well who does it? I don't want somestaffer looking it up.

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HARRIS It's going to be a staffer.

17 BLAGOJEVICH No. Why can't it just be you or18 Greenlee?

19 HARRIS Oh wh-, what am I going to find outabout?

21 BLAGOJEVICH You...

22 HARRIS Okay, I'll go on the Internet and find23 out Family USA. I mean, that's how I'll24

do it.

BLAGOJEVICH So you're saying you don't know how to26

do it 'cause I wouldn't know either.

27

HARRIS Right. I don't know how to do it.

28 BLAGOJEVICH Okay.

29 HARRIS I mean, I don't wanna deny you...

BLAGOJEVICH No, I hear you.

31 HARRIS ...the research.

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1 BLAGOJEVICH Okay fine. That's good. You can't do2 it. I get it. 'Cause I can't either.3

So, can Greenlee do it? Maybe Greenlee4

can do it.

5

HARRIS Maybe Greenlee can.

6 BLAGOJEVICH Yeah, I'll ask him.

7 HARRIS At least he knows the names of the8 foundations to start with.

9 BLAGOJEVICH Does he or no? You don't even know10 those.

11 HARRIS I don't even know the names of 'em.

12 BLAGOJEVICH Yeah, right.

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HARRIS I know Family USA, Kaiser Foundation and14

Red Cross.

15

BLAGOJEVICH Can you uh, call, get him on the phone16 and conference him in?

17 HARRIS Yeah, I'll call you right back.

18 BLAGOJEVICH Yeah, alright, bye.

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Documents

Session 262 Blagojevich Home Nov 5 2008