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Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin Mentor: Zachary Meisel, MD

Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

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Page 1: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin

Mentor: Zachary Meisel, MD

Page 2: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Pre-hospital emergency medical services (EMS) provide care for over 20 million patients annually.

Nearly all episodes of EMS care are completed when the provider “hands off” a patient to emergency department (ED) personnel.

Page 3: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

◦Examine attitudes, beliefs among a diverse group of stakeholders and participants ◦Characterize perceptions of barriers to high quality handoffs; to identify variations in these perceptions by thematic factors. ◦Characterize perceptions of relative value of EMS handoffs as it relates to patient safety among a diverse group of stakeholders.

Page 4: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Job description

Salary

Education/training

Page 5: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Perform tests essential for the detection, diagnosis, and treatment of disease.

At times, assigned to aid nurses in the Emergency Department when exceptionally busy.

$26,000 annual salary

Bachelor of Science, majoring in clinical-laboratory science (4 year degree)

Page 6: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Assess injuries, administer emergency medical care, and extricate trapped individuals. Transport injured or sick persons to medical facilities.

$36,000 annual salary

140 hours course (often completed in 3-6

months)

Page 7: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Entirely encompasses EMTs scope of practice.

Paramedics are trained in the use of 30-40 medications, depending on the state.

Set-up IVs and administer advanced airway maintenance intervention.

$55,000 annual salary

1400 – 1800 hours training (2 year degree)

Page 8: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Treat patients, educate patients and the public about various medical conditions, and provide advice and emotional support to patients' family members. RNs record patients' medical histories and symptoms, help perform diagnostic tests and analyze results, operate medical machinery, administer treatment and medications, and help with patient follow-up and rehabilitation.

Mean salary: $72,000

Bachelor's degree, an associate degree, and a diploma from an approved nursing program (2 to 4 years)

Page 9: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Diagnose illnesses and prescribe and administer treatment for people suffering from injury or disease.

Examine patients, obtain medical histories, and order, perform, and interpret diagnostic tests. They counsel patients on diet, hygiene, and preventive healthcare.

Annual salary: $234,000

Undergraduate (4 yrs) + medical school (4 yrs) + residency (3 yrs) + fellowship (2 yrs) = 13 years

Page 10: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

$0

$10,000

$20,000

$30,000

$40,000

$50,000

$60,000

$70,000

$80,000

Medical Tech EMT Paramedic Nurse

Annu

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alar

y Healthcare Personel annual Salaries

Medical Tech $26,000 EMT $36,000 Paramedic $55,000 Nurse $72,000

Page 11: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Medical Tech $26,000 EMT $36,000 Paramedic $55,000 Nurse $72,000 ER Physician $234,000

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$50,000

$100,000

$150,000

$200,000

$250,000

Medical Tech EMT Paramedic Nurse ER Physician

Annu

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y Annual Salaries of Healthcare Personel

Page 12: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Medical Technitians 4 EMT 0.5 Paramedics 2 ER Nurse 4 ER Physician 13

0

2

4

6

8

10

12

14

Medical Technitians EMT Paramedics ER Nurse ER Physician

Year

s of

Initi

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ing

Years of Initial Training of Healthcare Personel

Page 13: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Dispatched to fall incident.

Unresponsive 68 year old male.

Relative – Claims p/t suffers from history high BP

Show altered mental status (signs of stroke)

Hospital choice

Divert + Stroke Center vs Non-Divert hospital

Page 14: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Use of focus groups vs. surveys ◦ How are points of view constructed? ◦ How are points of view expressed?

Page 15: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

7 X 1 hour focus group

transcripts

Focus groups divided by professional category

Participants offered refreshments and $25 gift card.

Page 16: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Annual Meeting of the National Association of EMS Physicians (NAEMSP) ◦ Includes: Physicians, paramedics, nurses,

administrators, educators, and researchers.

Conducted focus groups: EMS medical directors/physicians; Non physician EMS professionals; Nursing personnel.

Page 17: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

EMS Today/JEMS Conference and Expo ◦ Largest national convention for EMS professionals—

with over 4,000 members in attendance.

Conducted Focus Groups: ◦ EMT paramedics-extensive training, broad scope of

practice. ◦ EMT basic/intermediate-limited training, limited

scope of practice ◦ Nursing personnel

Page 18: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Conduct separate groups ◦ To maximize the shared experiences ◦ Known authority gradient (e.g., between medical

directors who supervise paramedics and paramedics themselves)

Utilized sampling model to obtain variety of professionals in genders, races, and training levels.

Moderated by Dr. Zachary Meisel, MD (PI).

Page 19: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Explore how the handoff usually occurs. Examine positive or negative experiences

associated with handoff. Determine important components to

communicate/know in handoffs. Understand barriers to high quality handoff Evaluate the role of trust/perceived trust in

handoffs Assess global and relative value of handoff

process as compared to other key aspects of emergency care.

Page 20: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them
Page 21: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them
Page 22: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them
Page 23: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Roma

Page 24: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them
Page 25: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

To obtain inter-rater reliability

Page 26: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Attitudes/judgments towards me Receptiveness Mannerisms/personality/professionalism Relationships/familiarity/socializing Competence

Page 27: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Structural Aspects Who? Where? When? How? How long?

Attitudes and beliefs

Process outcomes • Time to

Antibiotics • Door to

Balloon • tPA window

for stroke

Patient outcomes

• Training • Local

culture • Trust • Perceived

Trust Patient

Factors • Race • Age • Gender • Acuity

Page 28: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them
Page 29: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

[paramedic referring to a specific hospital]

◦ “… I am pretty capable of convincing patients to not

make me take them to [Hospital X] because I don’t want to deal with the nursing staff there.”

◦ “There’s a hospital near me that I will not go to

because of the attitude unless it’s a trauma that you have to go there.”

Page 30: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

◦ “I now feel much better knowing that they trust my

treatment, knowing that they trust my assessments and things of that sort and being able to handle…like it’s a lot easier going in there.”

Page 31: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

The role of EMT’s in healthcare “And that we are not glorified taxi drivers.”

“Because I think there’s so many people that don’t

understand EMS that work in the hospital setting, and … having somebody that understands EMS and doesn’t just look at us as ambulance drivers that brought the patient, and realize what we can do in the field, to be able to interact on that level I think would really help as far as being able to relay information.”

Page 32: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Mod: So how often does that happen where you get to talk to even a doctor when you bring the patient in?

R: Not often enough.

R: Not often. You talk to a nurse more than anything. And

sometimes you don’t even get a nurse. Sometimes you get a…

R: Nursing assistant?…

R: Or yeah, an ER tech. Now pretty much an ER tech is our level…

R: The same level [as EMTs] and it’s not even worth it like to sign off because you’re not even really passing it to a person of higher authority.

Page 33: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

◦ “Sick is sick. You’re a hospital. It doesn’t say at the

front door “We only take traumas only. Sick people go next door.” ◦ [referring to Trauma cases] “They’re the ones you had

your business for.”

Page 34: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

◦ I came in with this lady, she was pretty bad, in her

eighties. And I came in and of course they [hospital] were on diversion… But so I walked in and they had no idea I was coming in and they just looked at me like a deer in the headlights, like “What are we supposed to do with the patient ?” They didn’t have anywhere to put it or… And I was just like “Help please!” And the doctor was very rude . She was just like “Why do you keep on coming here with these sick patients? We’re on divert.” I mean the hospital was like two blocks from her house so I really didn’t have a choice. And it didn’t make for a very good experience and the nursing staff was very nasty. They just kept on telling me “Don’t come back. Don’t come back again. Don’t come back.”

Page 35: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them when they rush right up to CAT scan when they find something. And they come “Well oh, it was something.” Maybe next time you should listen to the paramedic, you know. [In response to hospital disrespect targeting EMS] Mod: So you think that some of that is personality trait or… And that’s when they have a personality… And I do a little

planning or games and ok, well now you’re getting the next fifteen patients ‘cause you ticked me off with this one. And that’s not the right thing to do, but unfortunately I think in all walks of life you have all… Depending on personalities…

Page 36: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Structural Aspects Who? Where? When? How? How long?

Attitudes and beliefs

Process outcomes • Time to

Antibiotics • Door to

Balloon • tPA window

for stroke

Patient outcomes

• Training • Local

culture • Trust • Perceived

Trust Patient

Factors • Race • Age • Gender • Acuity

Page 37: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Study is first evaluation of the pre-hospital to hospital transition of care.

Goal: inform local and large scale efforts to improve the process.

Next step: trials of quality improvement informed by the results of these studies.

Page 38: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Personality, professionalism, and mannerisms can drive patient outcomes.

Poor standardization of the healthcare system.

Modes of deriving statistical significance from qualitative data.

Page 39: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Job Descriptions: BLS.gov

Salaries: specified to the Philadelphia region – indeed.com

Hypothetical: Egor’s experiences in EMS

Page 40: Roma Bhatia and Egor Buharin · Mod: What do you guys do if there are…if you feel like you’re talking past each other . I just reiterate why, my point, and then I laugh at them

Dr. Zachary Meisel

Joanne Levy Lissy Madden Meagan Pellegrino Hoag Levins Renee Zawacki

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