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Wedding venue turns away same-sex coupleUPDATED 6:14 PM CDT Aug 06, 2013
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GRIMES, Iowa — After the Hotel Pattee closed, an Iowa couple scrambled to find a new place fortheir wedding. They thought Gortz Haus in Grimes was the place, until they said the owners foundout they were a same-sex couple.
"It's not from an angry place," said Betty Odgaard, owner of GortzHaus.
Odgaard said she is a Mennonite. She said telling Lee and Jared theywould not be able to wed at the business she and her husband operatewas a stand on religious principles.
"That decision is based on our religious beliefs. We want to honor that.We want people to know that is our stand that comes from our faith,our convictions. I think we should just stand by that no matter what,"said Odgaard.
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Lee Stafford said he is not convinced the decision is based on religion.
"The fact is he discriminated against us based on our sexual orientation. Iowa code says if you havea public accommodation, you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation," said Stafford.
After the Hotel Pattee suddenly closed, Lee and Jared were one of the couples left suddenly withouta place to hold their wedding.
Stafford said that after finding Gortz Haus, he took his fiance on a tour and thought everything wasgoing well.
"At the end of the tour, he asked us if this was going to be for a gay wedding and I said, 'Yes it is.'He said, 'I can't take your money and I don't do things for free,'" said Stafford.
Word of the story has spread fast on social media.
Odgaard said she has received hateful, hurtful and threatening emails.
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Kathy Bever • 2 months ago
Your lifestyle apparently conflicts with HER religious beliefs. That doesn't meanthat she discriminated against you. She stood up for what her beliefs are. Time tofind some place else. Move on! And if you realize that people are not going to beaccepting of YOUR belief, then you choose to pursue a case with the civil rightsthen to me it just says attention. Get on with your life, it's too short. You won'tchange your viewpoint why do you expect her to change hers?
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Andrew Fuller • 2 months ago Kathy Bever
It is frustrating to me to see so many comments of this variety. Her religiousbeliefs are her religious beliefs and while I believe they are wrong, she is freeto believe as she does. Regardless of whether you agree with her choice,there are CIVIL LAWS in place and turning away this couple was a violationof those laws. It doesn't matter if she doesn't agree with their right to marry.
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago Andrew Fuller
But it does. Her rights allow her to not be forced to violate herreligious beliefs.
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Andy Gray • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
She has the right to choose not to operate a business underthe laws of Iowa. This is no different than if she believed thatGod wouldn't allow her to marry interracial couples, or servefood to black people, etc.
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Michaela Daniels • 2 months ago Andy Gray
maybe put up an old bar sign.."we reserve the right to refuseservice to anyone". then just say "no" and not give a reason.
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Alicia VanCannon • 2 months ago Andy Gray
That's true. And the state of Iowa also has the option to shut
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10/17/13 10:14 PMWedding venue turns away same-sex couple | Local News - KCCI Home
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That's true. And the state of Iowa also has the option to shutthem down. Oh well!
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Tman113 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
How is violating her religious beliefs if they get married? Theyaren't forcing her to get married or marry a woman.
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago Tman113
Forcing her to support something that is against her religion.No where did anyone say that her rights were being violatedby them getting married, but her being forced to offer herprivate business for the ceremony would.
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Tman113 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
She's not "supporting them". She is being paid money forthem to have their wedding there.
It's not a "private" business. Her place of business is open toeveryone in that community, not just people that she likes orthat believe in her same religion.
There are laws that protect people from the discriminationthat she is practicing. She is breaking those laws plain andsimple.
If she wants a "private" business, she should close her doorsand open a church, country club or some other "membersonly" facility. She wants access to all of the public but wantsto pick and choose which "public" she lets in. That's what iswrong with her thinking and yours.
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Average Redneck Girl • 2 months ago Tman113
This couple does not "have to use" her business. There areplenty of other options. Just sayin'. If I want to buy a newFord at a Chevy dealer. can I force them to order a Ford forme? Would that be discrimination since I am so in love with aFord and I gotta have one????
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Alpha 50327 • 2 months ago Average Redneck Girl
The Chevy dealer doesn't have to order you a Ford becausethey aren't in the business of selling Fords. If she's in thebusiness (which means they run the building, incorporated asa business, and paying taxes and getting tax deductions as abusiness) of hosting events for the public, then they can'tdiscriminate against that public. She can't refuse gays anymore than she could refuse Jews who wanted to hold a barmitzvah. The key here is how she's running the place. If it'sincorporated and run as a business, you can't discriminate.That's the price you pay for getting to write off yourexpenses. If she's a private party who rents out her house to
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expenses. If she's a private party who rents out her house tofriends and neighbors and members of her church, she cando what ever she wants. She'll have to report that income aspersonal income, but she's free to exercise her beliefs thatway.
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Sarah • 2 months ago Alpha 50327
She is not in the business of gay weddings so why should shebe made to.
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cot1tk • 2 months ago Alpha 50327
What if a group of white supremacists wanted to hold theirannual banquet there? Would she have the right to declinethat?
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Tman113 • 2 months ago cot1tk
If there are laws in Iowa that protect white supremacists andshe declined them, she would be breaking the laws.
But in Iowa, there ARE laws protecting people based onsexual orientation. She violated those laws.
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btsc • 2 months ago cot1tk
White Supremacists are not protected from discrimination. Ifshe denied them use because they were white then theywould be protected from discrimination; if she denied themservice because they were part of a hate group then it wouldnot have been illegal under the laws of Iowa.
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David James Sheets • 2 months ago cot1tk
Absolutely, albeit comparing a gay couple to the Klan is astretch (on a good day).
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kouzes • 2 months ago cot1tk
Yes
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Andy Gray • 2 months ago Alpha 50327
I'm not sure it matters whether it's incorporated or not. If it'sgenerally open to the public, and operates under theprotection of IA's laws, then it has to obey all of them and notjust the ones they like or their god approves of.
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Kevin Usmc Spacemen • 2 months ago Andy Gray
1. God - 2. Family - 3. Country; In that Exact order - you don'thave to like my order, but I can post it publicly as many times
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as I wish. In this country the Odgaard family does not have tosupport anyone or any group they do not wish to. It is realsimple for any and all haters, if you don't like it go somewhereelse to get your piece of paper signed so you can get yourend of year tax break
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Cantfixstupid • 2 months ago Alpha 50327
Your theory on incorporate business is a bit miscue. You haveno facts supporting your statements besides.... they cantdiscriminate. Well..... duh! An incorporated business is a legalentity has been authorized by a state or other politicalauthority to operate according to the entity's approvedarticles of incorporation or charter. Incorporated entities sharebasic attributes: an exclusive name, continued andindependent existence from shareholders or members, paid-in capital, and limited liability. Your "just does" theory doesnot apply.
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Kevin Usmc Spacemen • 2 months ago Average Redneck Girl
This analogy was right on the money and at the top of thestack - Liked this one alot :o)
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Alicia VanCannon • 2 months ago Average Redneck Girl
LOL duh. Not a great example. Not sure you understanddiscrimination laws.
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Cantfixstupid • 2 months ago Alicia VanCannon
Do you?
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Michaela Daniels • 2 months ago Tman113
give me a break! just because you accept money doesn'tmean you are a 'public' business! a hotel can refuse to rentyou a room...even though you have money. and they are a'private establishment'. but - you may be giving them a legalloophole here. maybe they can be a private business andserve 'member's only' and state in their membership theyfollow religious teachings and "if you are not happy with that,you do not have to become a member". then they sign awaytheir right, or they move on.
this is about one thing only: the continued assualt onchristianity and standing up for morals that have been aroundfor CENTURIES. making noise to advance an agenda - pureand simple. if this was just about "love" and their desire tomarry - they'd just find another place to marry.
STOP shoving your lifestyle down our throats!
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Tman113 • 2 months ago Michaela Daniels
The fact that you own a business and it is open to the publicmakes it a public business. Please read the laws in Iowa tosee that you are incorrect about what a private vs. publicbusiness is. You will see that this woman violated the law.
If she ran a Christian church or a private club this wouldn't bean issue. She has the privilege of access to ALL of Iowa'scitizens. And because she has that privilege she has to tofollow their laws. What if she refused services to other peopleshe deems sinners? Is she the judge of who is a sinner andwho isn't? What if she refused to serve Jewish people ormuslims? Or black people?
As far as an "assault on Christianity" how do two men gettingmarried at a public venue assault Christianity? I'd make theargument that people judging them and people taking awaytheir rights are more of an assault on Christian morals andteachings. Christ told us not to judge but to love and accepteveryone.
These men and LGBT people fighting for their rights aren'tforcing their lifestyles down your throat. They're not askingyou to be a lesbian. It is you that are forcing your Christianlifestyle down their throat by telling them they can't getmarried. They're asking you to stop that and thankfully thecourts and the laws agree with them.
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David James Sheets • 2 months ago Tman113
"Her place of business is open to everyone in thatcommunity" Open to everyone she wishes to do businesswith. I don't need a reason not to do business with someone.Period.
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Tman113 • 2 months ago David James Sheets
You are incorrect sir. There are laws in Iowa that protectpeople from discrimination based on sexual orientation. Shecannot just do businesses with people she "wishes" if she isrunning a business of public accommodation, which she is.
She needs to change her businesses model to a "membersonly" country club or church if she wants to be selectiveabout who she does business with. She doesn't do sobecause it would limit her customer base.
Many on this thread are ignorant of the laws and reasons forthem, when it comes to running a business that is open to thepublic. If you're going to run a business you need to educateyourself on the laws in your community.
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David James Sheets • 2 months ago Tman113
I'm very well versed in what the law is and is not. But it is not
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I'm very well versed in what the law is and is not. But it is notenough to be "legal", one must also be "right." Legal or illegalit is WRONG to compell a person, using the law or otherwise,to do business with people they do not wish to do businesswith. And one's rights are not decided by the law - the lawonly sets the boundaries for the government to act, andfurthermore it is up to the people occupying positions ingovernment to decide IF they are going to act. Blindobedience to the law enables anyone to use the law as asword to make people do what said people would notordinarily do. The solution is for the couple to take theirbusiness elsewhere. If you do not like the wedding venue'spolicy, use economics, not the coercion of the law, to putthem out of business. As for the law itself, it must beapproached in a manner that maximizes everyone's freedom,including the business owners.
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Sarah • 2 months ago Tman113
It would violate her beliefs if they would force her to provide aservice she doesn't believe in.. a gay wedding
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Tman113 • 2 months ago Sarah
What if she didn't believe in a jewish wedding or an interracialwedding? Would that be okay?
She owns a business that is open to the public. She has tofollow the laws in Iowa and provide that service to ALL of thepublic. Not just to people that she "believes" in.
When you open a business that is open to the public, you areresponsible for knowing the laws in your state as they relateto your business.
If she is that strongly religious that she has to judge each andevery client, she should be running a church or country clubnot a public business.
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Sarah • 2 months ago Tman113
She needs to state the services she provides "Christian " andstick to it. I sure would not give my money to someone whodidn't support me, I would look else where as the gay coupleshould do.
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Tman113 • 2 months ago Sarah
She needs to follow the law. She broke the law by not servingthem. If she is open to the public, she can't offer services toonly one religion. She would have to designate herself as achurch or private entity. She doesn't do this because it wouldseverely limit her customer base. She wants to have it bothways. Access to the public but only those that she likes.
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They shouldn't have had to look elsewhere. What if gaycouples faced this treatment at EVERY venue in Iowa? They'dhave no options.
And would people be so accepting of her breaking the law ifshe refused a jewish or interracial couple?
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Sarah • 2 months ago Tman113
How is her business not a private entity now? The fact is gayswont face that everywhere they go, Many have opened theirarms to them. And there are Jewish day care centers herethat cater to the Jewish faith and she could do the same.
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Tman113 • 2 months ago Sarah
There are specific parameters in the law in Iowa (andnationwide) that define the differences between public andprivate businesses. You can learn about them on their website. Do a search for Iowa non-discrimination laws to learnmore about it.
To answer your question, a private business would have tohave a "members only" policy or it would have to be a churchor religious institution. Her business does not fall into either ofthose categories.
And if there were no non-discrimination laws it would be veryhard for minorities and oppressed groups to find services inour country. Just look at the history of civil rights and see theway black people were refused access to dining, waterfountains and even rest rooms.
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David James Sheets • 2 months ago Tman113
"And if there were no non-discrimination laws it would be veryhard for minorities and oppressed groups to find services inour country." Yes, appartheit in the South (I use that term onpurpose) was wrong. But outside the government itself, it wasthe business owner's right to discriminate. It is the businessowner's right to allow smoking or not. Yet we have trampledthose rights in the name of greater goods (integration, health,etc.). We need to redraw lines and enshrine the idea that aproperty owner is god on their property, and if you find theirbehavior odious, put them out a business using freeenterprise, not the heavy hand of the government.
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Sarah • 2 months ago Tman113
Well then her and others like her will need to change with thetimes and find a way to keep faithful to their deeply heldbeliefs by making the business a "members only" place or betitled as a church or religious institution.
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David James Sheets • 2 months ago Tman113
"She owns a business that is open to the public" It is open towhom she wishes to do business.
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Margaret Hultz • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
It is her right to believe in whatever she wants, but if sheopens a business, she has to follow the law. We all do, shedoesn't have any special rights that allow her to discriminate.Close your business, or follow the law. It's your choice!
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turkey86 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
It doesn't violate anything. She's not doing the dirty with them
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago turkey86
Now I can see why you chose the moniker turkey. Sexualactivity has nothing to do with this debate.
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turkey86 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
Are you really this stupid? The reason they can't get marriedthere IS THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago turkey86
Which has nothing to do with sexual activity. Where does itsay that she has to do 'the dirty' with them for her beliefs tonot coincide with their lifestyle?
It's too bad you don't have the balls to use your own nameand hide behind a moniker so you can go into the publicdomain and resort to name calling. Very telling.
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turkey86 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
Where am I naming calling? And are you really threatening mevia a comment section on KCCI? Big balls you got, buddy.
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago turkey86
And I quote "Are you really this stupid". Now produceanything remotely close to a threat. Please. We will all waitpatiently, turkey.
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turkey86 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
That's an honest question, not an insult.
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago turkey86
Oh, in that case, are you really that stupid to believe yourcrap?
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turkey86 • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
That the woman is not allowing them to marry based on theirsexual orientation. Yes, I believe it.
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Tim Sipma • 2 months ago turkey86
That woman is not blocking them from getting married. She isblocking them from getting married at her establishment. Noone has the right to get married anywhere they choose.
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Alicia VanCannon • 2 months ago Tim Sipma
Um...did you see the update? Know your laws! Legal expertssaid the stand likely violates Iowa Code, specifically chapter216.7.
Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/centr...
6
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G.i. Joe • 2 months ago turkey86
comes from the guy who hides his face and identity LOL
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