Plato on JusticePlato on Justice

Historical BackgroundHistorical Background

Historical BackgroundHistorical Background

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government

TyrannyTyranny

Historical BackgroundHistorical Background

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government

TyrannyTyranny

OligarchyOligarchy

Historical BackgroundHistorical Background

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government

TyrannyTyranny

OligarchyOligarchy

DemocracyDemocracy

Historical BackgroundHistorical Background

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government Characteristic FaultCharacteristic Fault

TyrannyTyranny

OligarchyOligarchy

DemocracyDemocracy

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government Characteristic FaultCharacteristic Fault

TyrannyTyranny SelfishnessSelfishness

OligarchyOligarchy

DemocracyDemocracy

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government Characteristic FaultCharacteristic Fault

TyrannyTyranny SelfishnessSelfishness

OligarchyOligarchy Group-interestGroup-interest

DemocracyDemocracy

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government Characteristic FaultCharacteristic Fault

TyrannyTyranny SelfishnessSelfishness

OligarchyOligarchy Group-interestGroup-interest

SpartaSparta

DemocracyDemocracy

DiagnosisDiagnosis

SpartaSparta

Fear of serfs led to unityFear of serfs led to unity Extreme militarizationExtreme militarization Communal livingCommunal living IndoctrinationIndoctrination

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government Characteristic FaultCharacteristic Fault

TyrannyTyranny SelfishnessSelfishness

OligarchyOligarchy Group-interestGroup-interest

SpartaSparta

DemocracyDemocracy Dilettantism & Dilettantism & BusybodinessBusybodiness

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Types of GovernmentTypes of Government Characteristic FaultCharacteristic Fault

TyrannyTyranny SelfishnessSelfishness

OligarchyOligarchy Group-interestGroup-interest

SpartaSparta

DemocracyDemocracy Dilettantism & Dilettantism & BusybodinessBusybodiness

AthensAthens

DiagnosisDiagnosis

SpartaSparta

Fear of serfs led to unityFear of serfs led to unity Extreme militarizationExtreme militarization Communal livingCommunal living IndoctrinationIndoctrination

AthensAthens

assignment of some offices assignment of some offices by lotby lot

Elections led to Elections led to demagoguerydemagoguery

Partisanship Partisanship Social disorderSocial disorder

DiagnosisDiagnosis

Failings are all plausibly kinds of injustice. Failings are all plausibly kinds of injustice.

Selfishness Selfishness Obviously unjust (by tradition), Obviously unjust (by tradition), Group-interest Group-interest A type of selfishness, A type of selfishness, Dilettantism Dilettantism Doing what you’re not cut out for. Doing what you’re not cut out for.

Being where you shouldn’t be and Being where you shouldn’t be and stopping stopping those who are better those who are better qualified from doing their qualified from doing their thing.thing.

BusybodinessBusybodiness Making your opinion count where it Making your opinion count where it isn’t isn’t qualified to function well qualified to function well

Putting your opinion where it has no Putting your opinion where it has no business business being.being.

What do they say Justice is?What do they say Justice is?

Cephalus and PolemarchusCephalus and Polemarchus

Justice is the art of returning good for good and evil for evil.Justice is the art of returning good for good and evil for evil.

What do they say Justice is?What do they say Justice is?

Cephalus and PolemarchusCephalus and Polemarchus

Justice is the art of returning good for good and evil for evil.Justice is the art of returning good for good and evil for evil.

the idea that the mere ability is itself justice.the idea that the mere ability is itself justice.

But: An ability is morally neutral and it can be used for J or But: An ability is morally neutral and it can be used for J or injustice.injustice.

the rule of tit-for-tat as a guide to justice. the rule of tit-for-tat as a guide to justice.

But: Tit-for-tat is only a guide to interpersonal relations But: Tit-for-tat is only a guide to interpersonal relations

What do they say Justice is?What do they say Justice is?

ThrasymachusThrasymachus

Justice is the interest of the strong.Justice is the interest of the strong.

What do they say Justice is?What do they say Justice is?

ThrasymachusThrasymachus

Justice is the interest of the strong.Justice is the interest of the strong.

The ruler or the state operates in its own interest.The ruler or the state operates in its own interest.

But: Plato argues that the proper role of a ruler is to aid the But: Plato argues that the proper role of a ruler is to aid the ruledruled

If J. is whatever you can get away with, then that applies to If J. is whatever you can get away with, then that applies to

everyone. The wise man therefore does the conventionally everyone. The wise man therefore does the conventionally ‘unjust’ thing‘unjust’ thing

But: Plato thinks he can prove that the wise man is just But: Plato thinks he can prove that the wise man is just because he will get a better outcome. (See because he will get a better outcome. (See Gorgias.Gorgias.))

The Three-part SoulThe Three-part Soul

RationalRational

reasoningreasoning

Appetitive Appetitive to do with desires and lower passionsto do with desires and lower passions

SpiritedSpirited

think of it as ‘honour’think of it as ‘honour’

The Three-part StateThe Three-part State

Soul PartSoul Part State SectorState Sector CitizensCitizens

RationalRational GovernmentGovernment GuardiansGuardians

Appetitive Appetitive EconomyEconomy WorkersWorkers

SpiritedSpirited MilitaryMilitarySoldiersSoldiers

The Three-part StateThe Three-part State

EconomyEconomy Suitable for those whose appetitive souls are strongestSuitable for those whose appetitive souls are strongest Specialisation is good for the state.Specialisation is good for the state.

The Three-part StateThe Three-part State

EconomyEconomy Suitable for those whose appetitive souls are strongestSuitable for those whose appetitive souls are strongest Specialisation is good for the state.Specialisation is good for the state.

MilitaryMilitary The spirited folkThe spirited folk A professional army is requiredA professional army is required

The Three-part StateThe Three-part State

EconomyEconomy Suitable for those whose appetitive souls are strongestSuitable for those whose appetitive souls are strongest Specialisation is good for the state.Specialisation is good for the state.

MilitaryMilitary The spirited folkThe spirited folk A professional army is requiredA professional army is required

GovernmentGovernment Choose those whose rational souls are strongestChoose those whose rational souls are strongest A mandarinateA mandarinate A Philosopher-KingA Philosopher-King

JusticeJustice

The proper rule for men to followThe proper rule for men to follow: :

A place for everyone and everyone in their placeA place for everyone and everyone in their place

CritiqueCritique

The proper rule for men to followThe proper rule for men to follow: :

A place for everyone and everyone in their placeA place for everyone and everyone in their place

Is a travesty of our idea of what justice really is.Is a travesty of our idea of what justice really is.

CritiqueCritique

Rigidity of class systemRigidity of class systemSuppression of individualitySuppression of individuality

Nor should the mind of anybody be habituated to letting him Nor should the mind of anybody be habituated to letting him do anything at all on his own initiative, neither out of zeal, do anything at all on his own initiative, neither out of zeal, nor even playfully. … And even in the smallest matters he nor even playfully. … And even in the smallest matters he should stand under leadership. For example, he should get should stand under leadership. For example, he should get up or move, or wash, or take his meals … only if he has been up or move, or wash, or take his meals … only if he has been told to do so.told to do so.

IndoctrinationIndoctrinationCommunity of women Community of women Deceit as a state policyDeceit as a state policyEtc.Etc.

CritiqueCritique

The ideal State looks like The ideal State looks like an even more totalitarian an even more totalitarian version of Spartaversion of Sparta

CritiqueCritique

It seems Plato had no time It seems Plato had no time for the vision of Athensfor the vision of Athens