Parliament Explained

A podcast from the UK Parliament

Episode 2 ‘What happens in Parliament’

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Script

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MEERA:Welcome to the second podcast in this series, “Parliament Explained”.

I’m Meera Syal and in this series I’m exploring exactly what happens in Parliament.To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday.This time, we’ll hear about what happens in Parliament on a day-to-day basis. We’ll talk about the sorts of decisions that have to be made here and how that affects us all.

Last time I mentioned some of the basic differences between the House of Commons and the House of Lords. First off, here’s what the public had to say about the House of Commons.

VOX POPS “The Commons is where all the laws are

made, passed and reflected on, and that’s where the power in the country really resides”

“I think that they make up lots of rules” “The House of Commons is our elected

representatives”

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“They debate issues that are raised, they represent us”

“They pass legislation and make laws” “Laws are decided, people argue” “They make a lot of noise” “They drink a lot of coffee, possibly alcohol, I

don’t know!” “They debate, make decisions…on our lives” “Debates usually, I think, on current issues,

issues with other countries, or anything which they feel needs fixing or talking about”

“Debate. I know that they argue a lot. I know that they have a lot to do with the making of laws”

“They’re all sat around debating, trying to change the laws or getting things over the line”

“It’s policy from the Government which goes to the MPs to be debated. MPs actually put forward their own constituents’ problems to Parliament”

<<MUSIC ENDS>>MEERA: We know that the public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent our interests and concerns in the House of Commons. For these elections, the UK is divided up into 650 local areas – called constituencies – with each constituency electing one MP. So there are 650 MPs in the House of Commons.

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MPs split their time between working in Parliament itself, working in the local constituency that elected them and working for their political party.

When the House of Commons is sitting, MPs generally spend their time working at Westminster. Here they can raise issues affecting their constituents, join in with debates and take part in important votes.

AMBER RUDD MP: “The Government takes the welfare of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children extremely seriously. That is why we have pledged more than £2.3 billion in aid in response to the Syria conflict—our largest ever humanitarian response to a single crisis”.

- Response to an Urgent Question on accompanied child refugees, House of Commons Chamber, Thursday 9 February 2017

MEERA:Those who are opposition spokespeople on the front benches will take the lead in questioning and challenging government ministers on national issues.

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EMILY THORNBERRY MP: “Given the response of the Minister’s boss to my earlier questions—perhaps, more honestly, I should say the lack of response—may I ask him to address urgently the issue of the position of UK residents who are foreign nationals and not passport holders but residents?”- Emergency Debate on US immigration policy ,

House of Commons Chamber, Monday 30 January 2017

MEERA:Backbenchers – that is, those MPs who aren’t government ministers or opposition spokespeople – can take advantage of opportunities to raise local cases directly with the relevant minister and press them for action.

Away from the Chamber, it’s also backbenchers from across the parties that serve on Commons investigative select committees which play an important role in scrutinising the Government’s work. We’ll find out more about these committees later in the series.

When they are back in their constituency, MPs 6

often hold a ‘surgery’, where local people can come along to discuss any matters that concern them.

They also attend functions, visit schools and businesses and generally try to meet as many people as possible. This gives MPs a better insight into the issues they discuss when they return to the Commons.

Some MPs will have been chosen as Government ministers; some may be opposition frontbenchers.

Others may have been elected as a deputy speaker or as a chair of a select committee. Despite taking on the extra responsibilities that come with any of these roles, MPs don’t stop working for their constituents. Whatever their role in the Government or the House of Commons, they’ll normally hold regular local surgeries to help their constituents.

What happens in the Commons Chamber today has evolved from a long history of customs and traditions. To learn more, let’s go inside the Chamber itself.

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<<SFX INTERLUDE – SOUNDS OF THE COMMONS>>

MEERA: John Tamlyn is a Doorkeeper in the House of Commons.

JOHN TAMLYN: Our primary purpose is the security and the smooth running of the Chamber of the House and also its committees

MEERA: So John, we’ve all seen snippets of debates in the Commons Chamber in the news. Tell us more!

JOHN (direct transcription): The Chamber is where the Government makes very important announcements and decisions. It is a very historic place. It was conceived as a debating Chamber. The historic layout of the Chamber is that Members face each other. From time to time, Members disagree, the Chamber can get very crowded, which accounts for why

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the noise level can be raised somewhat sometimes.

<<CLIP OF LOUD MURMER IN CHAMBER AND MR SPEAKER CALLING ORDER>>

JOHN:The House of Commons Chamber is rectangular in shape, and at its head is the Speaker's chair, where the Speaker sits to preside over debates. The Government traditionally sits on the benches to the right of the Speaker with the front bench reserved for government ministers, and on the other side, to the left of the Speaker, are the opposition benches.

MEERA: Now as we learned earlier, there are 650 MPs. Watching on TV it doesn’t look like there’s room for everyone, so is it a free-for-all for seats?JOHN: Not quite! But unless you’re a frontbencher, whose seats are reserved, an MP has to use what’s called a ‘prayer card’ to reserve a seat for

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the day. By writing their name on a card and slotting it into the prayer card holder on the back of a seat they can reserve their seat for the day, so long as they turn up for prayers at the beginning of the day’s sitting.

Any minister, including the Prime Minister, that is making a speech to the House or replying to questions from other Members, stands at what's called the despatch box, which sits on the Table of the House in front of the Government benches.

A similar despatch box on the other side of the Table is used by Opposition frontbenchers.

The Speaker’s role is to keep order in the House of Commons, particularly during very rowdy and busy debates.

<<AUDIO OF SPEAKER CALLING “ORDER” FOLLOWED BY AN EFFORT TO MOVE

PROCEEDINGS ALONG>>

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MEERA: And there are other important spaces in and around the Chamber that we don’t see on the news...

JOHN: Absolutely. Like the division lobbies that run parallel to the Chamber on either side.

<<AUDIO OF DIVISION BELL RINGING>>When a vote takes place, the House literally divides which is why a vote in Parliament is called a division.

To vote, MPs must walk through one of two division lobbies - The Aye Lobby, which runs behind the Government side of the Chamber, or the No Lobby which is on the opposition side.

MEERA: We’ll learn more about divisions in our next episode.

JOHN:

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Up above the Speaker’s chair we have the press gallery, which is where the media sit along with Hansard, the official reporters of Parliament who record everything that is said and done in each Chamber and committee. You can read Hansard’s daily reports online on the UK Parliament website or watch the proceedings online through www.parliamentlive.tv.

The gallery at the opposite end to the Speaker is where the public sit. A very important element of parliamentary business is that it doesn't just sit, it's seen to sit, so Parliament is transparent and accountable to the public. You get a sense of the power of the Commons Chamber just standing in it; how the decisions that are taken in this place affect everybody's lives. So the stakes are always high.

<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA:Now let’s hear a bit more about what typically happens in the Commons Chamber from Lynn Hobson and Gary Hart, Regional Outreach Officers for the Houses of Parliament.

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LYNN HOBSON:We start with the Speaker’s procession through the Commons. After he arrives, the doors are shut for prayers and that's the only time when just MPs are allowed in. After prayers are over, the doors open, the journalists come in and the public gallery fills up. This is followed by ministerial Question Time.

GARY HART:Ministers come to the Commons almost every day to answer questions from MPs about their department’s activities. Ministers from different departments take it in turns, so on one day it might be Home Office questions, the next it could be Foreign Office questions or Education or Defence. This interrogation of ministers is something that takes place every day, Monday to Thursday.

JULIE COOPER MP:“My focus now is to make sure that the people in my constituency are not worse off

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post-Brexit….given that we benefitted from EU funding to the tune of 5 million pounds per year whilst we were in the EU, I seek a guarantee from the minister today that the Government has a plan to ensure that those resources come to my constituency post-Brexit”

- Oral Question to the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, House of Commons Chamber, Thursday 1 December 2016

LYNN: MPs submit questions in advance so that the Minister can prepare an answer but then each MP can ask a follow-up question on the same topic - one the Minister hasn’t been given notice of. At the end of the questions session MPs can often ask a few spontaneous Topical questions, which can be on any subject within the minister’s responsibility.

MEERA: We then move on to Ministerial Statements and Urgent Questions...

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GARY: If something important has happened – perhaps the Prime Minister needs to report back on a big international conference, for instance - then he or she will come to the Commons to make a statement about it. If a minister doesn’t offer to make a statement about an important event, MPs can ask the Speaker to require them to come that day and respond to an Urgent Question on the matter.

LYNN: Then we get into the main business of the day, which could be, perhaps, a debate on proposed legislation that’s been introduced. On another day, it might be what’s called an Opposition day, where one of the opposition parties gets to choose the subject to be debated in the Chamber. There are also regular days allocated for debates chosen by backbenchers - so a great variety of topics are debated in a typical week. At the end of the debate there will often be a division – a vote to decide for or against the proposal being discussed.

GARY:

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After that, an MP might present a petition on behalf of their constituents - any member of the public can ask their MP to do that. And then the last thing that happens in the Commons on any given day is an adjournment debate. These short half-hour debates are an opportunity for an MP to raise a particular issue – perhaps a local constituent’s case – directly with a minister from the relevant department who has to listen and respond to all the points made. It can be a good way of highlighting a problem because it means the minister and their officials have to look into the issue properly in order to prepare for the debate.

MEERA: So it’s clearly a busy place with a lot more going on than you might realise. We went through that quite quickly, so here’s a quick summary of a typical day in the House of Commons Chamber.

<<MUSIC BEGINS>><<ALARM CLOCK FX>>

SCRIPTED VOX POPS:1) “First are prayers – when MPs can reserve their seat for the day”

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2) “Then the doors open and in come the journalists and the public”3) “Business starts with Question Time for ministers from Government departments, with a different department appearing each day. Ministers have to be on their toes for those spontaneous Topical Questions”4) “Then it’s time for any ministerial Statements or Urgent Questions on significant events”5) “The main business of the day might be a debate on a Government Bill, or on a subject chosen by the Opposition frontbench or by backbenchers”6) “The day’s business ends with an adjournment debate, where an MP will raise a particular issue, to which the Government must send a minister to listen and respond”

<<MUSIC ENDS, INTERLUDE>>MEERA: We’re going to spend the rest of this episode talking about the other half of this “bicameral”, or two Chamber, system… and that’s the House of Lords. First let’s hear what people think of when they think of the House of Lords …

VOX POPS:17

“Really old posh men. Not really sure what they do”

“I can understand why people are dubious about it given that it’s not elected by the people”

“I used to think of it being very privileged when it was hereditary Peers mostly…”

“They can overrule certain things in Parliament so it can take the power away from what we’re trying to say”

“They back up the House of Commons don’t they”

“I think it’s a hereditary institution that costs us an absolute fortune”

“Wealthy, posh. I’m from the north of England, I come from a working class background. I don’t necessarily feel connected to it in any way”

“It’s important that we have a body there within our (Parliament) that is working for the people and putting their voice forward”

“They’re unelected people costing the country. Why should they dictate the law”

“They can advise the Government on what to do”

“It’s where laws are made, it’s kind of the second step”

“Sort of like the House of Commons except the seats are a different colour and the

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people are older and mainly men, and they’re not elected”

MEERA: To tell us more about the House of Lords, we spoke again to Lynn Hobson and Gary Hart, Regional Outreach Officers for the Houses of Parliament.

GARY:The House of Lords is the second Chamber of Parliament, and complements the work of the Commons. Together they scrutinise and challenge the work of the Government and share the task of making and shaping all legislation.

Members of the House of Lords come from all walks of life. They have different social, political and professional backgrounds and bring their specialist knowledge and independent experience from their careers outside the House.

LYNN: Contrary to what we heard just now, the majority of members, approximately 84%, are appointed for life by the Queen on the advice of the Prime Minister. The other main route into the Lords is to

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be recommended by an independent body called the House of Lords Appointments Commission, and these appointments tend to be for experts in their field, generally non-political in nature. While there are members of the House that have a political background, others have worked as doctors, soldiers, technology experts, business people, nurses, scientists, writers, judges, lawyers and police officers. Many members are also involved with charitable, voluntary and civil society organisations. This is important because it allows members of the Lords to contribute their professional experience and first-hand expertise to debates, committee work and bills.

The House of Lords Act 1999 removed the right of hereditary peers to sit and vote in the House. So members can’t simply inherit a seat any more. During the passage of the legislation an amendment was accepted, enabling 90 hereditary peers to remain until further reform is agreed. So nowadays only around 10% of members are hereditary.

GARY:

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The House of Lords is characterised by its independent thinking and a commitment to considering public policy in depth.

This independence partly arises from the fact that no party holds a majority in the Lords. A significant number of members, the crossbenchers, are non-party political - about 22% - and those members who do belong to political parties aren’t subject to the same degree of discipline as in the House of Commons – so they don’t necessarily vote along party lines.

MEERA:Let’s now go into the House of Lords Chamber, and find out a bit more about this fascinating place, with the help of JAMES MCNAUGHT, a Doorkeeper in the House of Lords.

JAMES MCNAUGHT: It's in the Chamber that members of the House of Lords discuss current issues, consider new laws, and hold government ministers to account through questioning and debate. And despite the gold leaf, it's very much a working Chamber.The House of Lords Chamber is rectangular with the royal throne at its head instead of a

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Speaker’s Chair. That’s where the Monarch sits when they read out the Government’s plan for the year during the State Opening of Parliament. The Lord Speaker actually sits in front of the Royal Throne, facing the table where the clerks sit, in the centre of the Chamber. The clerks are the administrators who advise members on procedure.

MEERA: And like in the Commons Chamber, there’s a despatch box in the Lords Chamber too isn’t there?

JAMES:That’s right, Government ministers speak from the despatch box. And also like the Commons, the Government benches are to the Lord Speaker’s right.Further along the benches on the right though, seats are reserved for the Bishops. Sitting opposite the Government benches are the Opposition and other parties including the Lib Dems, UKIP and the Greens. Benches run across the Chamber for the Crossbench peers - they are

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an independent group sitting between the Government and opposition. This large independent presence is in part why no one party has an overall majority in the House of Lords. Because there’s no majority, the Government of the day has to try and get a consensus and compromise as they’re not guaranteed to get their own way.

MEERA: It's actually away from the Chambers, in the committee rooms, that a lot of the most important work of the House of Lords is done. We’ll learn more about the work of committees in a later episode. But what are the other important parts of the Chamber it's useful to know about?

JAMES: Members of the public can sit in the gallery of the Lords Chamber and watch the proceedings. Anyone can come and observe, for free, without a ticket. The Lords also has its own division lobbies - one for the ‘contents’, which means you're happy with the argument and the other for ‘not contents’, meaning you disagree.

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<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA:Lord Fowler is the current Lord Speaker, and the first man to hold the role. The Lord Speaker plays a key role in the administration of the House of Lords including overseeing proceedings in the Lords Chamber. Let’s bring back GARY HART and LYNN HOBSON, Regional Outreach Officers, to talk us through a typical day for the Lord Speaker, and give us some insight into the work he does.

LORD FOWLER:"The question is that this Bill be now read a first time. As many of that opinion will say ‘content’. [cries of “Content”]. The contrary not content [silence]. The ‘contents’ have it"

- First Reading of the Health Service Medical Supplies (Costs) Bill, House of Lords Chamber, Wednesday 7 December 2016

GARY:

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In any one morning, the Lord Speaker might have meetings with party leaders and whips in the Lords, individual members who come in to talk to him, visiting schoolchildren, various interest groups and more. As the ceremonial head of the upper house, he’ll also receive foreign ambassadors, Speakers of other Parliaments, and visiting heads of state.

After their morning meetings, the Lord Speaker chairs proceedings in the Chamber, where they sit on the Woolsack. The Woolsack is a large square cushion of wool covered in red cloth and is stuffed with wool brought from around the Commonwealth.

LYNN:The Lord Speaker is always in the House when Oral Questions take place and this is the liveliest part of the day in the Chamber. The Lord Speaker’s role isn’t to keep order as Mr Speaker does in the Commons. Instead, at oral questions the members of the Lords themselves make sure that each party has the opportunity to question the minister in turn.

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This is an example of the more consultative and consensual approach taken in the Lords. Later in the day a foreign ambassador might come and see them or a foreign Speaker. In the evening, there may be two or three receptions to attend. The Lord Speaker also has a ceremonial role. For example, when the Burmese political leader, The National League for Democracy, Aung San Suu Kyi, came to address parliamentarians, the Lord Speaker was able to give her a vote of thanks and make a speech of welcome.

It's a very, very full day, and the Lord Speaker very rarely leaves the House of Lords before - let's say nine, half past nine in the evening.

GARY: So the majority of the Lord Speaker’s day is spent having conversations with people of one sort or another. Talking to the public at large or groups of schoolchildren in particular is valuable, because it means that they are in touch with the wider community. This way the Lord Speaker learns how current legislation is actually affecting people’s lives and work and to some extent that can be fed back,

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because during their day the Lord Speaker tends to meet all the political leaders in the House of Lords. So they’re constantly exchanging views with them and hearing what they have to say.

What can really strike you about the House of Lords is the extraordinary expertise of its individual members. The House of Lords is mostly concerned with issues, rather than party political matters, and this is shown when members from all the political parties work together and get that consensus to achieve a particular outcome. So they’re driven by the content of Bills, rather than having to vote according to a party political agenda.

Because of this expertise, the lack of a Government majority, and the independence of members, the Lords can come together to focus on issues, rather than party politics, and keep the interests of the public / wider community at heart.

<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA: So it seems a lot of what people think they know about the House of Lords isn’t actually true. Let’s

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hear from some of the same people we asked for their views earlier and see what they think now…

VOX POPS: “I guess if they’re experts in particular fields

then if they’re all coming together on a subject you’d get the best possible advice”

“It’s been an institution that’s developed over a long period of time so I think it has value”

“One day they could do something I agree with then I probably wouldn’t complain…”

“They’re given a Lordship on the merits of what they’ve done”

“I think it’s a good idea that there is this second level and I think the fact that they’re not necessarily assigned to a political party would help”

“Very learned people, very clever people, who’ve been put there because they’ve got lots of experience”

“I think there is definite value in having people who aren’t voted in, necessarily, because you’re able to get real experts in their field into the House of Lords”

“They’re the voice of the people”

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“It isn’t just the MPs making the decisions, there’s other people helping them out and pushing back on these things, which is great”

“It’s important to have people who haven’t got a political agenda to push and aren’t trying to further their own career, so yeah maybe it’s a good thing”

MEERA: We’ve covered a lot of detail today but before we go, let’s sum up why the House of Lords is important.

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VOX POPS:●“The Lords Chamber is there to benefit the

wider community”●“It's not elected so there's no reason for

members to have a political agenda”●“If the Lords Chamber DID become part or

wholly elected, it might make it harder for them to put party politics aside”

●“Having a second Chamber means closer scrutiny of the Government”

●“It also means the Government is accountable for its decisions”

● “If the Lords Chamber was electable, maybe that mix would be different?”

● “I still don’t see why they have a job for life - we can vote MPs out if we don’t think they’re doing a good job”

●“There's a wide mix of expertise and political views in the Lords Chamber”

MEERA: Plenty to think about there. That’s it for this episode of “Parliament Explained”. I hope you’ve enjoyed the programme. If you want to find out more about Parliament and the Government, why not have a look at the information online at www.parliament.uk?

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You can follow proceedings in the House of Commons and the House of Lords live on www.parliamentlive.tv, on Facebook at www.facebook.com/ukhouseofcommons and www.facebook.com/ukhouseoflords, and on Twitter @HouseOfCommons and @UKHouseOfLords. And if you have a specific question about the work, history or membership of Parliament, you can pick up the phone. The House of Commons Enquiry Service can be reached for free on 0800 112 4272. The House of Lords Enquiry Service is on 0800 223 0855 – also free. Callers with a text phone can talk through Text Relay by calling 18001 followed by either of those full numbers.If you’d like to hear some parliamentary debate, you can hear the Prime Minister’s Question Time Podcast by searching for UK Parliament on SoundCloud.Next time, I’ll be demystifying the debates and question sessions that take place in Parliament, to make sure that the Government answer for their decisions and are seen to be held to account.To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe the programme on your podcast

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app so that it downloads automatically every Monday.Until next time, I’m Meera Syal...

<<MUSIC ENDS>>

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