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With Brad Costanzo
Transcript Listen To The Show At:
BaconWrappedBusiness.com/mikef
or Subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher
Copyright 2014 Brad Costanzo
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Brad: All right, welcome back to Bacon Wrapped Business. Today is a special video
episode. If you’re listening to this on the podcast, I want to encourage you to go over to baconwrappedbusiness.com/mikef. I made this one really easy for you guys to spell in case you’re listening and you want to go to it.
If you’re looking on the show notes just go ahead and click view link, because today we’re interviewing Mike Filsaime. We’re going to talk about some incredible strategies that Mike is up to. I’m fortunate enough to know Mike. I’ve followed him for years. We’ve become friends and a mastermind together. If there’s anybody who can deliver the bacon wrap strategies, the sizzling hot advice, it’s Mike. Mike, I’m really excited to have you on the show today. I think the first time we may have met correct me if I’m wrong, maybe it was somebody else. Were you at Kevin Wilke’s Quattro event back in 2008?
Mike: Yeah, way back. Yes. That was a great event, yeah.
Brad: Yeah. I think that Butterfly Marketing had just come out. When did you come out with that?
Mike: Butterfly Marketing came out in January of 2006.
Brad: Okay.
Mike: I did a re-‐release I think in 2008 where we were giving away the course for a trial of our newsletter. We put 15,000 people into a $39 month newsletter by giving away the $2,000 product.
Brad: I love it. To back up a little bit for the folks who don’t know who you are, Mike, you’ve been in the online marketing business since when, about early 2000s or?
Mike: Yeah. I bought my first domain in October 2002. It was this great domain. A lot of people call me all the time looking for it. It was called letsallworkathome.com.
Brad: That’s good.
Mike: Because workathome.com was taken. Letsworkathome.com was taken. They couldn’t fool me. I got letsallworkathome.com. I always chuckle at like when you first buy those domains, everybody has got this funny little first domains like hateyourboss.com and stuff.
Brad: Uh-‐huh (affirmative).
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Mike: That was October of 2002. I bought a product from Frank Kern actually. Frank was my idol for [inaudible 00:02:49] friend. Now I make him do my dishes.
Brad: Exactly. Is that him in the apron back there?
Mike: Yeah. That’s him in the apron back there. March of 2003, things started clicking for me. About six months later, I’m doing about five grand a month. I was working in the car industry. I was the general manager of the second largest Hyundai dealership in United States, Millennium Hyundai. I was also, before that the general sales manager of the ninth largest Toyota dealership in the country.
Brad: You’ve got sales in your blood.
Mike: Yeah. I did that for 14 years. I started making money in 2003. By 2004, I was doing about 18,000 a month. It was more money than I was making in the car business. I’m not going to bore you with that story but came to heads with the general manager of the 13 car franchise. He told me, “You’ve got to make a decision. It’s either that or this.” I really think he thought I was selling on eBay making about 800 bucks a month on [inaudible 00:03:52].
When I told him, “Hey, it’s been a great five years.” He was like, “Really?” He said, “Give me the keys to your demo. Give me the keys to the safe. Give me the keys to the front door.” He walked out like Gordon Gekko on the phone saying, “Tommy, you’re the new general manager of Millennium Hyundai.”
Everybody chased me outside. I’m trying to compose myself and call my wife at the time and tell her to come pick me up because I don’t have a car anymore. She’s like, “What? You mean we have no health insurance?” I’m like, “Don’t worry about that right now.” Everybody is like, “Mike, you know John. Talk to him, don’t worry about it. Everything is going to be okay.” I’m like, excuse my language, I’ll just use the F word.
Brad: Hit it.
Mike: I was like, “F this. F him. F this place. F this business.” I’m crying. I couldn’t control myself. I’m like, I said, “Guys, you don’t get it. I didn’t have the balls to do this myself. I’m so glad that this day happened because now I’m going to … I’m just going to, I’m going to go on my own.” They’re like, “No, talk to him in the morning.” I said, “No, you don’t realize I feel like Mel Gibson and Braveheart.” I feel like …
Brad: Freedom.
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Mike: I was like, “Freedom.” Exactly. The very next month, I went on to do $50,000. Three months later I had an $85,000 day. A year later, I did the million dollar launch with Butterfly Marketing. We did $1.5 million with that launching. As I said, that was 2006, the rest is history.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Yeah. It started out just, read a sales letter one day that, “Hey, you make money online.” It was 2002. Times were very different. I always try to remind people this. I may be wrong on the date. I believe it’s something like this. In 2004, the guys that started YouTube were working for PayPal. In their part-‐time they started YouTube. In 2005, they bought the domain name YouTube. In 2006, Google bought YouTube.
There was no Myspace, Friendster hadn’t come out. There was no social networking. It was impossible for me to know who you were. You couldn’t even get video on without having to download this Videx, Codex. We didn’t even know how, people take for granted Brad how difficult it was to get a picture online.
Brad: I know.
Mike: We didn’t have these types of smart …
Brad: You had to scan them or do something.
Mike: You had to scan them. Or you had a 35 millimeter camera and you had to scan them. Or you had a digital camera that you were at RadioShack trying to say, “How do I get this into my computer?” Because USB hadn’t come out yet. Every computer, there were 30,000 different serial buses.
Then finally you get the picture off and you don’t realize that it’s, back then it was a large file for a dialer. It might have been a 2 Meg photo or something. It could be 36 [inaudible 00:06:39] bytes. The photo would load on your website like this … It would take two minutes for your photo to load. Then you’d have to take it off because you didn’t know what you did wrong. That’s how difficult it was back then. WordPress wasn’t around. It was difficult. It was also fun.
Brad: I feel like one of the guys from the Saturday Night Live skit. In all our day, we didn’t have YouTube. We loved it.
Mike: Yeah exactly. Back then people were doing these things called teleseminars because webinars hadn’t come out yet where they were teaching you about the ability to take credit cards online. No joke. They were saying you no longer have
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to put call or fax to your ordering because it was difficult to take credit cards. PayPal was just starting to make it easy for people. I’m going to shut off my wonder list here. It keeps sending me notifications.
Brad: All the stuff you have to do?
Mike: Yeah. Some of the, the people on my team keep checking off the stuff they’re doing. Yeah, that’s a little back story about me.
Brad: That’s great. I remember yeah, I got into the business in 2000, actually the very January of 2008. I met you briefly at Kevin’s event. I purchased some of your stuff over the years. The first thing I purchased you had a software that allowed you to put your offer on the thank you page.
Mike: For the thank you pages?
Brad: What was that called?
Mike: The software was called HyperJava.
Brad: That’s right.
Mike: The product launch with the training and everything was called Traffic-‐Fusion.
Brad: Traffic-‐Fusion, that’s right.
Mike: Everybody was doing the, “Hey, do a video in your car.” I pulled out of my parking lot, didn’t look. A car, I almost got hit by a car making that video.
Brad: Did you get it on video?
Mike: Yeah it was on video. It’s probably out there somewhere.
Brad: That’s awesome.
Mike: Yeah, Traffic-‐Fusion.
Brad: Yeah. To just enlighten the folks who are listening, one of the things that you’re very much known for is not only just training on information of the how to, the informational products. What to do with video tutorials etcetera. You’ve always created software that makes your life easier. From Traffic-‐Fusion, even Butterfly Marketing was a software component right?
Mike: Yeah.
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Brad: Or a script that allowed you to get other people to sell your products after they list them as an affiliate to help spread the word for a quick explanation. Then throughout the years not only have you had some of the top information products and training out there, now you’ve got, correct me if I’m wrong but Webinar Jam on how to use and how to run really high-‐end webinars, really sophisticated but easy to use webinars using Google Hangouts.
Mike: Mm-‐hmm (affirmative).
Brad: You’ve got DealGuardian, an entire market place. It takes place in a merchant account and affiliate software for people. I’ve seen it. It’s absolutely remarkable. You’ve got the, obviously the genesis products, Traffic Genesis and Video Genesis. I know you’re working on a new one with, I believe it’s Conversion Genesis if I’m not mistaken. I’ve always been really …
Mike: Yeah. We did, with Andy, we did Video Genesis, Genesis Labs. Then Traffic Genesis. Now we’re doing Conversion Genesis. The softwares we put out were Webinar Jam and DealGuardian.
Brad: Yeah. I think that’s great how you give people not only just the tools. You give them the training but also the tools too.
Mike: Yeah. I developed a lot of software over the years. I actually was stronger in software than information products. My first big info product Butterfly Marketing was really wrapped around the software. I developed another market place years back in 2005 to compete with ClickBank that I sold for a pretty good amount of money back in 2013. Just recently sold it because I wanted to move to DealGuardian.
Brad: Which market place was that?
Mike: PayDotCom.
Brad: That’s right.
Mike: Yeah. PayDotCom.com It was a nine letter domain. It always confused people.
Brad: PayDotCom.com.
Mike: Yeah. PayDotCom made me millions over the years. The tough part about selling it was getting a buyer that understood that I wasn’t going to give a non-‐compete because I was going with DealGuardian.
Brad: Sure.
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Mike: I didn’t feel the need. I need too money. I basically found somebody. I said, “Look, it’s a money maker. You don’t have to do anything. You can just wake up every day. It will make you money.” I did small software things like [inaudible 00:10:58] Generator to Power Link Generator back in the day. Then we did the Traffic-‐Fusion product.
We also had things like, when Twitter came out, I tried to compete with TweetDeck with a product called TweetGlide. Basically, the more you tweeted, the more points you would get for free ads. Twitter didn’t have ads. We created an ad platform. The more people you referred, the more they tweeted, the more credits you got. It was one of those Downline Builders if you would inside of a Twitter product. We tried a lot of different things.
Brad: Right. I’ve got a software that I developed. This was, at the time that I developed a product in the dating market, developed a software product for GPS devices to change the voice in your GPS called PIGTones.com
Mike: Really?
Brad: Politically incorrect GPS. Most people aren’t using Garmin and TomTom anymore versus just like the, in the iPhone which is what I use. The software business has always had, been a double-‐edged sword. It’s way quicker and easier to throw up information product and make some quick money. The nice part about software is that if it’s really good, people paying you month after month after month, that nice continuity income.
Mike: Yeah. If you look at Webinar Jam compared to a product launch, it did phenomenal. It made multiple millions in its launch. Usually a launch goes like this. Then it goes like that unless you’re driving advertising to it which you should. Some companies can even do so strong on word of mouth without even doing advertising. The nice thing about things like Webinar Jam is that product does about $125,000 a month. If I went away for a year and just decided I want to go on some Antarctic exploration, I would come back and it wouldn’t change as long as I had my support desk taking care of the customers.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Having a company like that that now you can say now I can go do YouTube advertising and Facebook advertising and Google pay per click and drive traffic to it, that’s where it gets good.
In this day and age, the more and more that you have a software as a service company, usually there is some type of link involved in the sharing of that product. If I were to share something with you, with Screencast or with Jing, I
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give you a link. Then when it’s done it says, “Get a free Jing account.” Or if I share something with you with Dropbox, as you download it, it says, “Would you like to create a free Dropbox account to store this in or download it directly to your computer?”
If you get an invitation to work in my project [inaudible 00:13:45] software. We’re working together. I say, “Hey Brad, join me over here.” Suddenly you get an invite. You’re like, “Wow, Mike and Andy are using this.” Whenever you have a software that does that, sometimes it can propagate itself. It can self-‐perpetuate through the use of different users, add a little bit of social aspects and elements. It saves for people to do so, and even better.
For Webinar Jam, we have a little tracking code in the player [inaudible 00:14:12]. Brad can just go to webinar and unclickable. It says powered by Webinar Jam. We [inaudible 00:14:20] the opportunity when they [blew 00:14:23] a webinar one time in their profile to add the affiliate link to that. Then that takes a little powered by Webinar Jam and makes it a live hot link. If people click that, it goes to Webinar Jam. If you were doing a webinar with 400 people and anybody clicked at the Webinar Jam and bought the product, you get paid your commission.
What’s interesting is we have hundreds and hundreds of webinars every single day, from 30 people to 400. Some people that I’ve never heard of get five times more people than I can. We heard people last week got 5,000 people on a webinar.
Brad: Seriously?
Mike: Yeah. I’m like who is this person? They were in the real estate niche which is fantastic. That’s 5,000 people. The more and more we’re getting online, the more and more the people that learn information from us, many of them have their own websites and their own businesses. It used to not be true. Definitely in personal development in finance and in make money, we find that to be true. Even in health products, I’m finding that people that go on webinars for Chalene Johnson, many of these people are personal experts or they have their own Zumba websites. They’re trying to build their own community.
The bottom line is we’re getting people that go on Webinar Jam as a guest of somebody else, as a guest of Brad Costanzo or a guest of Chalene Johnson or Brandon Bouchard. Then they say, “Brad’s using this. That’s interesting. If it’s good enough for Brad, it’s good enough for me.” Our users are helping us advertise the product just by the use. The more users we get the more, it’s a snowball effect, this fly wheel effect that happens.
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Brad: Right yeah. Ryan Holiday wrote a book called Growth Hacking not too long ago. This was this whole concept about how software and app companies etcetera they’re hacking the growth with traditional marketing.
Mike: Exactly.
Brad: They’re just building in the viral aspects. That’s really, it’s what Butterfly Marketing is all about as well, turn your customers in this case info product buyers into your affiliates.
Mike: Exactly.
Brad: That’s fantastic. A couple of answers you gave me at two different masterminds that we’re in. One day I asked you, “What part of the whole marketing thing do you like the most?” I think you answered the conversion. Most marketers tend to gravitate towards more the conversion side like if you could spend all of your day writing, coming up with hooks and copy and offers versus coming up with traffic strategies etcetera. Did I get that right or is the conversion side of things a little bit more of your passion?
Mike: Yeah. I’m fascinated …
Brad: With why people buy?
Mike: I’m fascinated that human beings move in herds.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Yeah. For instance if, I don’t think we really go down to this granular to the fact that if I have a 29% conversion on an opt-‐in page. You say to me, “Mike, this is something we’ve tested. It increased our conversion. You should try it.” My conversion goes from 29% to 45%. Really what we have there Brad more than anything is a study in human behavior, because it’s not something that helped me close one person. It doesn’t matter if I’m getting 10 visitors a day or 100 visitors a day or 10,000 visitors a day or a million visitors a day, that conversion rate would have stayed at 29% or will compete over here doing better at 45%.
What it means is fundamentally, human beings make decisions the same way and in mass numbers over several days, over several years that we can predict the way humans are going to work. Even across niche, you can tell me, it worked for me in this market. It’s something I did on my podcast. Try it here.
Brad: Yup.
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Mike: For me the fascinating thing about the conversion is really breaking down into the human psyche. That’s why I’m fascinated with books like Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely.
Brad: Dan Ariely.
Mike: His other book yes obviously Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. Books by Joe Sugarman like Triggers. When you can find out what improves conversion based on the way human beings think because we respond to stimuli. As much as people say, “Advertising doesn’t work on me.” It’s like, yeah look at the shirt you’re wearing. It does. We conform to group norms. We want to fit in crowds. We want to do things that others do. We make different choices based on different options we have when the choices are there. That’s why there’s things like price decoys, all these little things that work in the human mind to me is fascinating. I study that more than anything.
Just to give some ideas about the way that the human mind works based on the frame that you put before something when you said. For instance, the simple way to say it is if somebody says, “It’s sunny today but it’s going to rain tomorrow.” People will say, “Yeah, that’s too bad.” We’re framing that with a negative outlook. If I say the same exact thing. When I say, “It’s going to rain tomorrow but it’s sunny today.” That will change your attitude to be like, “Yeah let’s take advantage of today.” Right?
Another example of that is if we take a look at somebody eating and they work out. If you see somebody and if we understand, for the most part, calories in from food intake and calories burnt in exercise are pretty much the same thing without getting too technical.
A lot of people will argue that. They should because calories in and food is a lot different. Let’s just say that they’re the same in through the mouth as they are working out. If I say, “Hey Brad, I just saw you over at Fit. Great work out. I’m going to go over at Hodad’s. I’m going to get a double bacon, cheese burger and fries and some of that orange sauce.” You’re going to be like, “Dude, why would you do that? You just worked out.”
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: There was a certain amount of calories I burnt off and a certain amount of calories I’m going to go put into my body. It’s the same exact math if I say to you, “Brad, I just at Hodad’s man.”
Brad: Now I’m going to go to Fit.
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Mike: “Now I’m going to go to Fit and burn it off.” You’re going to be, “High five brother.” Right?
Brad: That’s a great point.
Mike: At the end of the day, they’re the same amount of math went in in calories in and calories out. If we can sometimes understand that, that’s simply a frame that’s put around something that can change people’s perspective. We can do it with words. We can do it with calories. We can do it with videos. They do it to us at the movie theaters.
Brad: Give me an example of how you’ve used framing. I’m predicting that I know what you might answer. I may be wrong. Give me an example of how you’ve used framing similar to this in your marketing.
Mike: It’s the biggest thing that Andy and I struggle with before we start a product. Excuse me. We for instance for Traffic Genesis, everybody is talking traffic. We didn’t want to be just another traffic product. Here are some of the things you see. Traffic equals money. Imagine you could spend a dollar and make two. People have all heard that before.
We needed to change their thinking by introducing a new frame. It was what’s called a pattern interrupt or an incongruent juxtaposition. It’s getting traffic is easy. First, you’re going to say to me and everybody listening to this podcast if they’re buying traffic or knows anything about traffic then you’re saying, “No, it’s not.” I’d be a fool not to finish my point.
Brad, getting traffic is so easy it’s ridiculous. Getting a thousand visitors is easy. Here’s the experiment. I’m going to give you $1,000. I’m going to take a thousand. Let’s say we have 10,000 people listening on your podcast. We get them a credit from Facebook as well for 1,000. They give us all $1,000 real money. Guess what Facebook is going to give you, me and every single one of those people? $1,000 worth of traffic.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Getting traffic is easy.
Brad: Yeah. You prove that.
Mike: If you give them 10 bucks, they’re going to give you 10 bucks worth of traffic. If you give them 100 bucks they’re going to give you 100 bucks worth of traffic. You prove that. Then what’s the problem? The problem is not getting the traffic, it’s what happens when the traffic comes to your site. We had to create the
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frame that you don’t have a traffic problem, you have a conversion problem because getting the traffic is not hard. What’s tough is spending $1,000 and not making anything.
We now have to figure out, okay, now that I know it’s a conversion problem, you’ve just changed my thinking that if I can get the conversion problem fixed, you’re right, traffic is easy. Facebook will give me as much traffic as I can spend. That’s where it gets beautiful. We Focus Traffic Genesis on a course that we call after the click system. Everything that happens after the click is what makes that dollar turn into two dollars. We didn’t want to focus so much on how to create ad sets and all that stuff because that’s teaching people how to spend that $1,000 which is very easy to do.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Spending $1,000 is as easy as wasting $1,000. We wanted to show people that it’s all about what happens after the click. That was the frame that we created for Traffic Genesis in our first video.
Brad: That’s great. One of the, I was wrong. I love what you said there. It is true because a lot of people think that, “Oh my God traffic is so hard to get.” Yeah, no traffic is hard to get a good positive return on investment for. That’s the challenge, right?
Mike: That’s right.
Brad: Traffic in general, that’s easy.
Mike: That’s the blessing, is that if now that you know that getting traffic is easy, then you never have to worry about getting traffic. All you’ve got to do is realize you got to focus on the conversion. Andy and I called it the scar, the $100 scar.
Brad: Right.
Mike: $100 scar is I spent $100 on Facebook or Google AdWords. It didn’t work for me. Those people they never come back again. They’ll say, “Well, it just didn’t work for my product. It didn’t work for my niche.” We’ve basically showed that you sent an offer directly to a video sales letter. You didn’t give a freemium. You didn’t get their email address. You didn’t have the proper sequence.
You didn’t have a Tripwire. You didn’t have an upsale process. Your members’ area didn’t monetize. You didn’t do retargeting, all these different things. We called it the no fail traffic system. That if you implement these things, pretty
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much it’s impossible to fail at the prices you can buy traffic for. What do you think it was?
Brad: I thought it was a little tidbit that you shared with me one time about pre-‐framing with the checkbox the upsales on the order form.
Mike: Yeah. That’s a great example.
Brad: I love it.
Mike: That’s one of a thousand. Do you want to tell that one?
Brad: No. Go ahead because this is yours. I love it. I still have not put it on any of my or my clients’ websites yet. That’s coming. This is some bacon wrapped shizzle right here.
Mike: At PayDotCom, people can still witness this today. I don’t know if the new owners changed. When you signed up I gave you an offer after you signed up. Man, I lost a lot of money not doing that. I wanted to keep the site pure and not make a onetime offer after people were opting in. After two and a half years I realized at one point I was getting 975 sign ups a day. I made $97 offer that converted 10%. That meant I was getting 90 sales at $90. Let’s call that 100 sales at $100. It was 10,000 a day.
Brad: Right. It wasn’t just a one click upsale?
Mike: No. It was just an upsale. It was the first up sale. We were doing about $8,700 a day for a good long time with that. It blew my mind. What really killed me was how much money I left on the table by not wanting to make an offer. Changed my perspective about it, always made people offers. People love to buy. They hate to be sold. Just give them an opportunity. That’s where this leads to.
The offer was converting pretty good. I decided to start split testing everything. I tested with video and without video. Here is a little side note. At the end of the video, I tested something that actually had an improvement on conversion. At the end of the video, I just stood there and I kept going …
Brad: Just silent.
Mike: After 30 seconds I said, “Hey, don’t mind me take your time. Take all the time you need.” I’d wait. I would just shake my head, look at my watch and be like, “Come on, you know what to do.” It did that, it increased conversions.
Brad: Are you kidding me?
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Mike: The pressure that they felt that I was watching made them take action. That’s not the real [crosstalk 00:27:35].
Brad: No, that’s great though. It reminds me, if you really want to make somebody, silence, that awkward silence is really what it is. They’ll feel it with something.
Mike: I think they also stayed on the page just to see, how long is he going to do this? Because I took the scrub [inaudible 00:27:51].
Brad: What’s he going to do?
Mike: Yeah. At the end maybe, who knows?
Brad: Still it worked. That’s great.
Mike: I think why it did better. You have a page where people sign up. Then after they sign up, they go, they think they’re going to the members’ area. They get the “Wait, we have a special offer for you.” What I did is at the top of that it always said, “Save 85% on some of our most popular products.” It’s interrupted marketing. People when they sign up for something, they’re expecting to go into the members’ area and stop playing around and building products or getting an affiliate link to promote, not get sold something.
At PayDotCom, right where the sign up button was, where there’s a tick box for the terms of service, I put in another tick box. It simply said, “I’m interested in saving 85%. I’m also interested in saving 85% on some of your most popular products now or in the future.” It was a dummy tick box. They saw the offer either way.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: When they clicked on that, while they were signing up, the next page said, “As you requested, save up to 85%.” Now this wasn’t an interrupt anymore in their … They opted in to see this offer. They saw this page. They said, “This is what I just elected to see. Now you have permission to market to me.” In their mind, actually they’re giving themselves permission to see the offer and buy it. It had a 20% increase on conversion.
Brad: That’s great. What about the folks who did not check it? Did it change what it said at the top or?
Mike: Yeah. We simply didn’t put as per your request.
Brad: It just said say yes. It was before.
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Brad: That’s great. Anybody who’s read Robert Cialdini’s book Influence will understand that’s the principle of commitment and consistency because you get somebody going down that path saying yes. They’re much more likely to say yes in the future. You’re framing up the upsale in a perfect way. That’s where I thought you were going to go with that.
Mike: Yeah. People tend to stay consistent with their initial commitments no matter how small those commitments are. That’s why all these things that we’re seeing with lead boxes, lead pages does where people are called to two-‐stepped opt-‐in. You’re no longer seeing the name and email address on a form when people are asking for something. You’re seeing a big red button that says, “Download free PDF.” All that does is get a commitment.
Once that buyer commits, a live box opens up and says, “Where should we send it?” Now the person is only staying consistent with what they just committed to. People are much more likely to just go click something that says, “Download free report than fill out a form.” Today, gosh man, I see people that on their opt-‐in forms which are okay to have it on your page. I just still recommend going to the two-‐stepped opt-‐in. They ask for first name, last name, email address and sometimes even address and phone number to give something away for free.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: We stopped asking for name years ago. If you look at anything Andy and I have done in the last year and a half, we have not once ever asked anybody for their name, not unless they bought. All of our emails start with hey, because we’ve tested name and email decreases conversions over asking for just email.
Brad: Yeah exactly. The people who are the biggest perpetrators of that. Like you said, they’ll go to a white paper or something, you see this all the time like yeah, you get this white paper on X, Y, Z or sign up for this demo. They ask you for everything. Mother’s maiden name basically. It’s always, it seems to me it’s always the biggest companies like the Fortune 500 companies out there. I run across them all the time. Sometimes they’ll do an AdWords ad to something they’re giving away. They’re asking for the moon. These huge companies they should know better.
Mike: No, they go for the sale too quickly. Even when they’re not asking for the credit card, it makes you feel like this is part of a buying process. This is work. It shouldn’t be. It should just be download. In fact, I think you showed me the best basically bread crumb trail of a commitment and consistency of anything I’ve ever seen.
Brad: What was that?
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Mike: It was the one where you sign up with Google Plus the other day, what was the name of that company?
Brad: Primeloop.
Mike: What is it?
Brad: Primeloop.
Mike: Yeah Primeloop. Guys after you’re done listening to this podcast here, go to primeloop.com. Really the only thing you can do is one call to action on the page. The way they walk you through the sign up process, Brad and I thought that was the neatest, friendliest way to make you want to do business with a company as you are also giving them your information.
Brad: Yeah, it’s so cool. Not to divert too much. You can sign up for free. If you do any retargeting let’s say perfect, a really, really cool strategy. I’m actually going to try to get the CEO on the show because I just, I love what they’re doing. Even at the very end when you’re all done, they have a drawing of a hand. It says place your hand against the screen and feel the high five.
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: Just little stuff like that. I love that. A couple of things I wanted to bring up. First of all, I want to ask you if you’re still using the PayPal strategy that we talked about.
Mike: Yes absolutely.
Brad: I want to go into that. I’ll just frame this up for the way I’d really love the rest of this conversation to go. I want to talk about that. I want to talk about anything else that you have not yet divulged me in private that you’re willing to divulge here that’s really working. What are your favorite techniques, strategies, tactics, anything that’s just really sizzling hot that you’d like to share that people can do because you really always are on the cutting edge of stuff. You see what works. You test it for yourself. You talk to a lot of people. I want to do that.
Then I also want to talk about any opportunities that you see out there that maybe aren’t being exploited as much or that you see the trends moving forward like man, I really think is where the pack is going. Let’s talk about the PayPal strategy because you and I have both had some really
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good experience with this. For anybody marketing online right now, this is a strategy they could be using. We all could have been using this for years. Almost no marketers that I know have been. I saw you and Andy doing it for the first time on your launch I don’t know, six months ago.
Mike: Yeah. This is not a shameless plug. This is a place where they can see it demonstrated. If they go to trafficgenesis.com. There will be a big red button under the video. They can click that at any time. Then see the order page. It will actually show this exact strategy.
Brad: They can also buy trafficgenesis.com.
Mike: Yes they can. I recommend that if they have a product that they’re looking to sell and they want more traffic. I highly recommend it. Basically PayPal has something called Bill Me Later. We got to understand just a couple of things about it.
Brad: They just changed the name, didn’t they, to PayPal Credit?
Mike: I believe so yeah. Now I got to get back and change my images.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: Bill Me Later was a private company years ago. PayPal bought them out. They’re not very good marketers. A lot of these companies are just so big for different reasons that they don’t know how to market some of their other products. In fact, we’re proof of that that we showed if they would teach their vendors how to use it, they could do so much better with it. They try to do it. The people are checking out with a little line that says, “Would you like Bill Me Later?” A little bit more needs to go into that.
Let’s first talk about some of the caveats ahead of time. Number one, it only works for US customers. Number two, people have to qualify for the credit. Number three, it doesn’t work on any type of subscription for a payment plan. It only works on a one-‐time payment purchase. If you are going to do three payments of 399, it’s not going to work on that. If the customer lives in Canada or UK or Australia, not going to work. If they don’t qualify because of their credit, it’s not going to work.
They’re pretty aggressive in approving people. They will approve people up to $10,000, not the price of your product. If your product is 997, when they get approved, it might say something like congratulations, you’ve been approved $3,200 which might also help in your upsale process.
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Brad: Yeah.
Mike: All we did is when we introduced the price, we told people about this. Here’s the funny thing, when people, a lot of my friends that saw this on my checkout said, “Hey Mike, I notice that you have a Bill Me Later at 997. Then you had a 9.97 price, what was the difference in technology between the two?” Basically I said, “The text.” Both of them goes to PayPal. One had text that explained that you could go use the Bill Me Later option. The other one was basically just a way for somebody to ahead of time say, “No, I’m not interested.” When they got to PayPal, they still saw the option for Bill Me Later. It was a [crosstalk 00:37:10] process.
Brad: You’re pre-‐framing, you’re framing them.
Mike: Exactly.
Brad: You’re letting them know. I don’t know if you just went over this or not. For folks who don’t know the Bill Me Later or the PayPal Credit allows you, if I’m buying something for $500, I have no payments and no interest on that $500 for six months as long as I make a payment, as long as I paid in full within six months.
Mike: I’m going to go to trafficgenesis.com. I’m actually going to read the way we wrote that.
Brad: Cool. More importantly, the customer is not paying anything right now. They literally pay zero. You as the merchant gets paid immediately just like as a PayPal account.
Mike: Exactly. I’m going to explain that in just a second. I want to make sure that that music doesn’t come on. We basically say option one Bill Me Later, six months no payments and zero interest, zero dollars you pay nothing today. With this $997 Bill Me Later option, you get complete and full access to traffic genesis today plus all the VIP bonuses for the live event bonus. You pay nothing today. You have no payments and zero interest for six months. See terms at PayPal during checkout process. Of course, the 30 day guarantees applies as well. We get paid by PayPal today. You have six months to pay it off, interest free.
Then it says, important note, “To access the Bill Me Later option during checkout, you may need to log in to your PayPal account or create one. Here’s a video that explains. Then on that page, we had a little video maybe 45 seconds that says, “You’ll notice when you get to PayPal, here’s where you normally pay with your PayPal balance. Instead click here where it says Bill Me Later. Confirm your social security button, hit submit and within three seconds you’ll have an answer.” It was that simple.
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Brad: Yeah.
Mike: We also Brad put it in the sales video, in the video sales letter. We said, “Here’s how you can get started today. One option is” We led with the Bill Me Later. “Unfortunately, it’s for US residents only. Don’t yell at us at our help desk. That’s PayPal’s rules.org. Ya-‐da, ya-‐da. We explained that. Then we went through our normal pricing and the payment plan. Then recapped later. Why not take the Bill Me Later?
Brad: Here’s another question people have. You just touched on it. How do you get paid?
Mike: It makes no difference to you as a seller. In fact, unfortunately, you will not even know and PayPal does not share the data with you who is a Bill Me Later customer.
Brad: Right. You just get deposits in your PayPal account. That’s it.
Mike: Exactly. Basically what’s happening in the background is instantly when the customer applies to that bill me later, they’re given a line of credit, let’s say $6,000. It’s sitting in there as a third layer. Layer number one, my PayPal balance that has $16 in it. Layer number two my credit card. Now layer number three, my line of credit with zero interest and no payments for six months. They basically when they make a purchase, they transfer that money into their PayPal balance as real money.
Brad: Yup.
Mike: Then that money goes from their PayPal balance to you and you get paid real money today.
Brad: Right.
Mike: If that guy doesn’t make payments, it doesn’t matter. This is a separate risk department. PayPal will never even come to you and be like, “You put too many Bill Me Laters.” No, no, they want that. They manage the risk by looking at your credit. If they lose money, that’s in the risk. It’s very similar to you going to BestBuy or a furniture store and at checkout that you say, “Our budget was really $700. Man, I really like that living room set. It’s $3,200. We’re going to live in the house forever. After seeing that, I can’t not have that. Maybe we’ll come back in a couple of months.”
The lady says, “Hey, did you know that you can fill out a Capital One agreement?” “No, we don’t have the cash.” “No, actually believe me, here’s how
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it works. All you have to fill are these five lines of information. We get an answer in 30 seconds. You don’t even have to get a credit card or wait for anything. They pay us. You’d be able to go home with this furniture today. You have no payments or no interest for six months.” It’s the same type of way I feel like buying the furniture right now. I sold myself.
Brad: Right.
Mike: That’s what you can do with your customers at checkout. What you should do with your customers at checkout even for 47 and $97 products.
Brad: Right. For the $47 you can’t do Bill Me Later.
Mike: I think yeah you’re right.
Brad: It’s $99 and up.
Mike: 99 I apologize.
Brad: Single payment only. Here’s what I think is cool. First of all, the results on this because I remember us texting back and forth when I was like, “Dude, how is that going?” Because this was new for you. You said, normally you would offer the full price at about $997. Then three payments of …
Mike: 377.
Brad: 377. Explain the results that you got on that, because I had very similar ones.
Mike: Normally, 30% of the people pay in full and 70% of the people will pay the payment plan. In this case we had 65% of the people pay in full. We had more than double of the people pay in full. It was not only increasing conversions. We can only assume.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: Because you can get the product for free today.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: Not pay any payments or interests for six months. It has to increase conversions. We were getting more money up front. Here’s the thing, our pay in full refunds were drastically lower than our multi-‐pay plans. We don’t know which one of those were bill me later not because we don’t know. We only know that our pay
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in full refunds in proportion to our payment plan refunds are normally the same. In this case they were half.
Brad: Right. The bottom line for this is that if you’re using PayPal right now, you don’t have to do anything technically advanced in order to implement this. All you simply did, you were giving them the ability to purchase with PayPal anyway. You just brought attention to it. You just said, “Hey guys, by the way, PayPal doesn’t do a good job of explaining how great this is for you. Let me explain it for them.”
Mike: I didn’t invent it. I didn’t even pioneer it. I might have been a tipping out as we’re going out and talking to more people about it. I simply heard from Russell Brunson that told me that, “Hey dude, here’s something I’m going to test. I heard about this girl that was doing a webinar. Her conversions were horrible. She did a webinar and sold one. Then she basically just pitched the Bill Me Later. She had a 15% conversion for her $1,000 product.”
I was like same questions, “What do I have to do in my technology?” Then when I researched. I was like, “I simply just have to tell people that the button is thee and explain to them what it means. That it really means yes, you get full access today. You don’t have to pay anything today. I get paid today and you don’t have to pay anything for six months. You don’t get charged any interest as long as you pay it off in six months.”
Brad: Right. That’s the key.
Mike: The interest goes back to day one on six months and a day. That’s why we used special wording. We’re not fooling anybody. It’s six months, no payment, zero interest.
Brad: This paid off?
Mike: Then PayPal forces them to check all those terms of service when they’re there. We just don’t want to contradict that.
Brad: Right. You can take this. If you’re listening to this and you’re not selling information products online. You’re not selling products online. You’re not selling anything over $100. Maybe you’re in the service business, this is what I thought was really cool as well. If you’re selling a service, maybe you do, keep it in the marketing side.
Maybe you’re an agency, maybe you do SEO for people or pay per click management or you are a personal trainer or selling packages of things. It really doesn’t matter. As long as if you take payments with PayPal now or you decide to, you could sell a package deal instead of a monthly or whatever and just let
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people know. Listen, you want to defer the payments on this? Why don’t you repay with PayPal, simply use it like this and you could increase your business that way. I thought that was really amazing for anybody who does coaching, who does SEO.
Mike: Coaching, call centers.
Brad: Call centers.
Mike: We knew some people, I think you were trying it as well, having a call center, let the customer know that they could go, see if they’re approved and then send you guys a PayPal transfer.
Brad: Walk right through it with them.
Mike: While on the phone.
Brad: Yeah. While they’re on the phone to say yeah, listening just click that button. Then go to the process. They’re doing it on PayPal. Oh my God, you’re approved. That’s fantastic. There’s just so much that can be done with that. That is really about as bacon wrapped as it gets.
Mike: Thanks man.
Brad: I remember when you discussed that at the mastermind this summer. I was like, “Dude, we have to do this in this podcast, on this and share it.” It’s been, we keep on putting it off. I’m glad we got to that. What else if anything, do you have another … Here’s who I want to address because we are primarily online digital marketers. I asked you the other night who your typical client is who buys your information products. You said these are experts and people who have information to share with the world. Obviously you get a wide suave on this. The sweet spot for you are people who, they’re selling their expertise, right?
Mike: Yeah, not money motivated. They understand money is a byproduct of the value.
Brad: More mission motivated, right?
Mike: Yeah. I use this, maybe it’s overly strong. I say because I met somebody at a seminar that did this. I’m going to put on my over 40 glasses. I’m trying to say it as good as I can but you’re just getting so blurry. I’m getting such a headache. There might be a little reflection on there. I have to. I apologize.
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Brad: That’s all good.
Mike: Basically the customer that we serve is a typical customer that would be at an event. You say, “What do you do?” They hold up their book. They say, “I have a book on what types of foods that you can eat that can stop you from getting cancer in your system.” You’re like, “Nobody can stop.” They’re like, “No, seriously it’s about the body getting acidic. It’s the foods that you eat and blah, blah, blah.
It’s really, really important to me because I’m only selling about $300 a month. I want to get the word out there because I had a family member that died because they didn’t eat right. It led me to research all this. She could have been saved had she had the information in my book. I don’t want anyone to ever lose their family member, Mom, Dad, sister, brother or kid when this information is out there. I need you to help me get this information out there. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.”
That’s our avatar. It’s a customer like that that feels that they have a message to share with the world. Their message is great. Their marketing is not as good as their message. We want to show them that their marketing can be as good as their message.
We tend to stay away from the customer that asks a question like, “Brad, if you were going to start all over, what’s the fastest way do you think a guy can get started to make money online?” Because they’re not asking the right question, you and I know that.
The question is what value do I provide? What is my expertise in the world and understanding that our income it’s a formula. It’s directly proportional to these two things. The number of people that we serve multiplied by the value that we provide. That’s it. How much value we’re providing and how many people we’re reaching. With the internet we could reach people outside our local community like never before.
Brad: I remember when I first started my very first info product, my first two sales, one was from France, the other one was from the Netherlands. My first sales I was like multinational. I was global baby. That always was thrilling. There are so many opportunities out there for people.
Mike: Is it a product of marijuana. I’m just curious, Netherlands, they are always so interested in it.
Brad: No. It should have been. It was magic tricks and all things.
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Mike: That’s right. Yeah, you told me about those.
Brad: Yeah. It’s funny. I never felt like I was an expert at anything. I knew how to do little cheesy bar tricks. I figured what, I’m going to use this as a marketing laboratory and figure out if I can show guys how to use bar tricks to break ice at bars and have fun with it. Lo and behold, yeah there’s a guy named Sebastian Routier, I’ll never forget.
Mike: Yeah. You never, you always talk about that. I remember the first person I sold the car to.
Brad: Really?
Mike: I don’t even remember anything about the second customer. I remember my first customer that bought my product online, we never remember the second. That’s a whole nother walk down why we remember things. It usually has to do with the amount of adrenalin that’s going through our body. It creates such a tattoo on our brains. That’s why the first is so important. That’s why people put the first dollars up at the pizza place and the bagel stores [crosstalk 00:50:41].
Brad: That’s right. That was my first. Let’s say you’ve got, let’s say that I am somebody who I’ve got an information product. I’ve got it out there. I’m frustrated because I put my heart and soul into this whether it’s, maybe it’s a book and maybe it’s a video series. I went through the tutorials, I put something together and I’m proud of it. It’s valuable.
I’m frustrated because I’m toying with, I’m balancing that, I can’t really buy profitable traffic until I get my conversion up. I can’t get my conversion up without testing with traffic. It’s that doubled-‐edged sword. A lot of the people whether they’re coaching students of mine or friends. I’ve even dealt with it in the past, the chicken or the egg, I can’t get conversion unless I drag traffic. I’ll go broke driving traffic until my conversion is high. What do you tell people who are facing those situations? They’ve got a good product. They just don’t know exactly the first thing they should do to really dial that in. Is there an easy answer or is it just little by little, test by test?
Mike: I wish there was an easy answer.
Brad: Mm-‐hmm (affirmative).
Mike: In some cases I can tell you that you can go out there and you can hire somebody to do your copywriting and hire somebody to do your finals for you. The second one, getting people to do your finals for you is more difficult than, it gets more difficult as time goes on because all those people aren’t available there for you
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to continue to do that. You might have to hire somebody else and they’re not as good. Or you may pay for something and it didn’t convert.
Brad: Right.
Mike: The second issue going back to the first thing about hiring a copywriter is that I believe what makes a good copywriter good is somebody with good marketing skills that can explain it to the copywriter, because I’ve seen a lot of times good copywriters not be able to convert people’s products because they don’t know how to explain the product. I find some great copywriters and great marketers simply hire another copywriter because they don’t have the time to do the copy. They have enough information to tell the copywriter what to do. This is where the bad news comes from. This is my perspective.
I think at the end of the day we may call ourselves a guy that is going to teach people how to meet people at bars and meet women at bars with magic tricks. At the end of the day we may think that we’re an author that wrote a book on how to cure cancer or we’re a software developer or we’re in the health niche or we’re in the finance niche. I disagree. I think the first hat that we have to wear is being a marketer.
Brad: Right.
Mike: I think if you’re passionate about it even better but you must become the student of it. You must read those books like Predictably Irrational. Read a copywriting book, take a copywriting course, start understanding what the numbers mean and conversions, because I think when you understand that there’s a formula and a template to selling something.
Once you learn that skill, you can just fill in the blanks every single time, you shouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel again or not understand the purpose of a headline. If we ask 10 different people what the purpose of a headline in a marketing, we should get the same answers 10 times. We don’t. For me, my thing is become a student of what makes people buy.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Going back to where we started, human beings we’re nothing but organic matter, carbon based life forms that respond to stimuli.
Brad: Mm-‐hmm (affirmative).
Mike: The same way cats will hiss under the same circumstances and dogs will bark.
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Brad: People will buy.
Mike: Yeah. There are certain things that people will do under certain stimuli. I’m saying this obviously in the sense of we do this for the good because we see it happen in politics and all these studies. They go to the people in politics and the president and they say, “The polls are saying this.” They use that data to manipulate people. Everybody is going, in the back of their mind is always going to say it’s for a greater good.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: I believe when you’re helping people with cancer or helping people in relationships, for the most part, if you know deep down in your heart, you put a lot of work into your product, it’s going to serve a better value for the people than the amount of money that they’re going to pay for, then you need to do everything in your job to convince those people.
I don’t call it manipulation. I don’t call it using tactics and trainings. I call it giving people all the information they need to make an informed decision. When you know how to craft your words and position and frame and make those things better, everything is easy. You really can’t fail. That’s why guys like you and me have been able to have product hit, after product hit, after product hit. Sometimes those things are unconsciously competent to us.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: They come as they say second nature. It’s even difficult sometimes for us to go back and say, “I don’t know why that worked. I’d like to deconstruct my brain, find out why I was in such a zone that day that made that sales letter convert better than some of my others. At the end of the day, there is a formula to telling your message online. Guys like John Benson have really good products that teach …
Brad: How to break it down into that formulaic thing.
Mike: Exactly.
Brad: When it comes to copywriting, I struggled with this for years because I consider myself a really good copywriter. Like a lot of copywriters I’ve got a love/hate relationship with it. It’s blank paper, stare at it especially if I have to sell my own product, it’s the last thing I want to do. It’s like giving birth, it hurts. It’s painful. I can improve anybody else’s copy. I love that. If you give me your copy and say, “Hey buddy …”
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Mike: That’s how Andy and I work.
Brad: Right. Tell me how to improve this. I forget who told me this several years ago. When I started applying it to the copy process. Actually it can apply to a lot of processes, things got a lot easier. A lot of people have heard of the 80/20 rule. What’s the 20% that gets 80% of the result?
Mike: Right.
Brad: This is the same thing but it’s the 10/80/10 rule. Have we ever talked about this or have you heard about it?
Mike: I’ve heard you said it yeah.
Brad: 10/80/10, especially when it applies to copy. I’m going to do the first 10%. I’m going to outline all right, here’s what we’re selling. Here’s the hook or the general story that I want to tell. Here are the benefits. Here are what it does for you and the author. I don’t have to worry about scripting the whole thing out. I don’t have to make it flow. I don’t have to make it in a flowery language and use an LP and do anything like that.
Mike: Not yet no.
Brad: I come up with this skeleton. Now I can hire a copywriter and say, “Look, number one you’re not starting with a blank page. Fill in the other 80%.
Mike: Because a copywriter doesn’t know anything about health or finances or forex or a flower shop.
Brad: Right.
Mike: He doesn’t. He knows how to make something, give them the ice, they’ll find the sculpture underneath. You’ve got the give them the block of ice.
Brad: Bingo. Then that final 10% is yours. You get to go in and polish it. By letting somebody else do the other 80% it puts you in the position of uncritiquing and improving your copy not mine, because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve written, I’ve just gotten in the zone. I’ve been sitting there typing. I’ve come up with what I think is great. Then I read it the next day. I just delete the whole file because I’m like [crosstalk 00:58:24].
Mike: Yeah. That’s a horrible feeling. Don’t worry. Andy wrote five sales letters for traffic genesis.
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Brad: Really?
Mike: Five before we got yeah, before we got to it. That’s him or me being harsh. In fact he just wrote a letter the other day. We’re doing a short letter for our video genesis. He said, “Mike, please do me a favor and go and do a second pass.” His exact words to me the next day were, “Jesus, Lord Jesus, effing, Christ and all that.” I was like, “What?” He was like, “My God Mike, this is brilliant.” I just kept trying to say, I was the 80 guy in this scenario. I was like, “I just went in and polished.” He goes, “Why do you think that is Mike? Why do you think when you do it, I can do this for you and you do it and you could do it for me?”
There’s two things that happen, number one, when you’re writing copy and every single person listening that’s ever written something or tried to write a to-‐do-‐list or brainstorm or do a mind math, Brad I know this has happened to you. You’re starting to write and you know the three paragraphs ahead of what you want to say.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Sometimes it’s so important you have to stop and go write and leave it there and then go back.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: Then you get into that what was that thing I wanted to say about what happens with the Bill Me Later? I knew I should have wrote it down then, because, now you have this fear that this is happening. Your copier is a brain dump. You’re putting all this stuff out of your head. That’s why you delete it the next day because it doesn’t have that structure.
Brad: Yup.
Mike: What happens is it gets exhausting. To go back and write a PS, sometimes takes three days. I don’t want to look at that page again. Can I just call it done? You look at it and you know it’s not done. That’s why for me or vice versa anybody that can go in and can easily say, “I see what he wrote here. What he’s trying to say is this.” You’re run on and your sentence is run on, coma, coma, coma, this one long paragraph. I think that’s what it is. There’s something called in copywriting jumping on the table.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: What that means is you and I right now are in the middle having a conversation. Imagine I just jumped on this table and I started talking about something else.
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Here’s what Video Genesis [inaudible 01:00:36]. It’s like, whether or not you were finished with that last paragraph. We don’t talk to each other like that. What that means is that every single time we look at one paragraph to another, we can never jump on the table. We have to assume that we’re having a conversation with a person.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Almost imagine that you’re reading that and talking to somebody. What you start realizing is that those transitions start having things where you go, you may be wondering why I said that. Let me explain. This is what I basically told Andy. I want to go in. I want to romance the transition. He says, “I love that.” That’s what copy sometimes is missing is that romance and the transitions. It just suddenly says, “Here’s what you get.”
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: It’s like I wouldn’t talk to you about that. I would say something more along the lines of so you can see why I’m so confident and not only what it’s done for me but in what it’s done for my customers. If you’ll please let me explain to you what you’re going to get in video genesis. It’s just those little things.
Brad: Yeah. It’s more authentic. It’s more conversational the way you would really talk to somebody in person. It’s funny. I was listening, you know who Porter Stansberry is?
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: Potter, for those of you who don’t know runs one of the largest financial newsletters. It’s a nine figure, eight figure business and probably I think a nine figure business. He’s one of the best copywriters out there. He was speaking about the first letter he ever wrote back in the ‘90s. It was the railroad letter which set his business on fire. The railroad letter simply means that was the hook that he was using.
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: He sat down across the table from Michael Masters and his mentor at the time, who is also a copywriting and direct marketing legend. He says, “I wrote 18 version of this letter, 18. They’re almost totally separate. Not just 18, little biddy revisions, 18 versions.”
He goes, “Every single one, I’d sit down with Michael. We’d take turns reading a paragraph to each other and simply saying is it, you’re familiar with the curb
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method, is it confusing? Is it uninteresting or is it boring? Then just marking them off, marking them off, confusing, uninteresting or boring? It does show you the amount of effort that can go into writing one of these things and the degree of detail that goes into every single sentence.
Mike: Yeah. They have a great book called Copy Logic. I found myself making the mistakes of one of the things that they said in there. It’s like, I can say something that is three times more expensive. They have a problem hearing something as three times less the price.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: I notice that I would write that a lot, it’s, I’m going to show you how you can get it for three times less. They were like, “You can’t multiply something and get less.”
Brad: You’re saying that that doesn’t register with people’s heads?
Mike: Right yeah.
Brad: It doesn’t impact them?
Mike: Yeah. They would say just change it to one third the price or something along one tenth the price that type of stuff rather than saying 10 times less, because the mind might just see something different and just confuse them. Like you just said, it’s confusing.
Brad: It may make it three times more. It may subconsciously implant.
Mike: Right, if they’re scheming yeah.
Brad: Right, absolutely. What do you think is, what’s at least one maybe more but one opportunity out there that, do you think people, we all could be exploiting and maybe aren’t, do you see any trends that are going forward that, like oh man, this is hot that you don’t mind giving up?
Mike: I don’t have any secrets right now that I haven’t shared.
Brad: Right.
Mike: Not just on this call but with everything. I haven’t been holding back. Andy and I tend to share everything we have, because we believe that there’s just too much opportunity on the internet. I’ll tell you where I think things are going and what I like seeing. With companies like Stripe and Braintree and PayPal.
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Brad: All these payment processors for those who don’t know.
Mike: Yeah Apple Pay and Google Wallet, I would definitely tell people to pay attention to that and make sure that they’ve got an ear and down close to the ground floor and keeping an eye on updates with their Infusionsofts and Office Autopilots pilots and their shopping carts because in my opinion, I know people do very well with app businesses. I know content and videos get watched very highly on mobile devices.
Brad: Right.
Mike: We’re seeing more purchases happen on iPads. Not quite as much as they should be for the amount of content that’s being used. It’s [crosstalk 01:05:14].
Brad: It’s because of the lack of ease of payment.
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: Nobody wants to pull their credit card.
Mike: I’ll just say wait till I get home. I do make purchases all day long for one click, Remove Ads, just bought a cool app the other day Remove Ads. Do you want to know why I did it? Just because they gave me an option. It was 99 cents. It didn’t make it hard for me. You click the button.
Brad: It was a mobile app?
Mike: Yeah, on a mobile app. All I had to do is click Apple’s button to do it.
Brad: Yup. The ease of purchasing.
Mike: It was going to send me a free box of chocolate every month for 10 years. Let’s assume I love chocolate.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: I still wouldn’t have done it if I had to fill out a form.
Brad: Right.
Mike: I just wouldn’t. The pain of filling out forms is tough. I think we’re getting beyond that. Brad, I think that’s a year away from every merchant account starting to find a way that’s going to be working with Google Wallet and Apple Pay, PayPal is going to compete. I believe that they’re going to give this the ability to API a
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button that’s tied into a premade account without having to log in, the way Apple is doing Apple Pay. The way you can go up and you can scan something at the register.
I think that’s going to be great for commerce because people will, be on their iPhones and their Android devices and their iPads. They’ll see something. They know that they can want to click to something that’s hard coded into their device like Facebook Connect is now into their iPhones. That will be a beautiful day for us. I think people that are ready to exploit that the fastest, everybody will eventually catch on. I think that’s something that I want to make sure my Add to Cart buttons don’t stay unchanged for three years. That’s going to be one of the first things I’m going to change.
Brad: Right, I agree. It’s probably not too long from now we’ll be having another conversation saying, “Hey, remember when you had to pull out your credit card to buy something online or you had to fill in that data? It wasn’t just a thumb print. It wasn’t a retinal scan. It wasn’t take a picture of this or just hit theory and say yes I confirm, bye.
Mike: Yeah. Check your voice.
Brad: That’s great. That’s exactly what I was hoping to get is something like that. Those are definitely some opportunities that we’re on the cusp. The technology is there. We can do this now, between Amazon, between Apple, ClickBank between, there’s another company I just came across called …
Mike: [Crosstalk 01:07:45]?
Brad: I met one of the guys Atpay, A-‐T-‐P-‐A-‐Y.
Mike: I haven’t heard of them. I got to check them out.
Brad: Yeah. What they allow you to do is all via email. Let’s say somebody purchases something from you once, it could be a dollar. Now it’s on file. By the way, they integrate with everybody’s current merchant account. They integrate with everybody else.
Mike: Nice.
Brad: Now what will happen is you’ll send me an email. In that email it says, “Hey Brad, we’ve got a special on this. You can get this new t-‐shirt we’ve got whatever for $10. We have all the information we need simply press this link in your button in the email in order to purchase it.” You click that. If you’re on mobile, what it does is it cues up a new email to Atpay, the subject line of what you’re
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purchasing. Then it says, “We have all the information we need from your prior history, simply click send and you will complete your purchase for $10.”
Mike: That’s incredible. There’s another company Braintree is doing that. Braintree is a company that is also and Venmo which is the competitor to PayPal payments through Twitter type of stuff. They have, if you go to their site and see their parent company, they’ve got three awesome technologies that some are for fraud detection but others are for these easy payments going through checkout. It’s coming, those days are coming. That’s great.
I did think of one thing real quick, it’s no secret. It’s something I think the new, what if, the way Facebook has been talking about marketing over the last two years, I think what you’re going to now see is people talking about YouTube advertising. Marketers have been the last people to get on YouTube.
Brad: Right.
Mike: I see maybe three marketers I know that I’ve actually seen ads where I see a thousand marketers I know on Facebook. I’ve learned some pretty interesting stuff on YouTube advertising that it’s pay per click, not pay per impression. No, I’m sorry, it’s pay per impression, not pay per click on the ad. The impression only goes on.
Let’s say you have a video that’s a minute and 30 seconds long, you don’t pay for that video until after it hits the one minute mark. You could do all this branding, even get a click to your website. If they click and the video stops. If they don’t go through a certain point in the video you don’t pay. It’s possible to get more clicks than even impressions. There’s a great guy people can look up if they just Google. His name is Tommie Powers. It’s spelled T-‐O-‐M-‐M-‐I-‐E. This guy spoke at my event and made me just feel like an idiot for not advertising on YouTube.
Brad: Yeah. You’re right. That is one of those areas that a lot of marketers that I know are underutilizing. It seems like the only advertisements I see these days. It is so funny, I’m watching a YouTube video. Then you see a Fortune 500 main street advertising commercial. All they’re doing is repurposing their TV ad. They’re sticking it on YouTube. It’s not addressing the state of mind that I’m in. I’m sitting there waiting for the skip ad. Hurry up. This doesn’t grab my attention at all.
Mike: Have you seen Ryan’s for Traffic and Conversion?
Brad: No. I haven’t seen it.
Mike: Just to his site. Then he’ll start retargeting. You’ll not be able to watch a YouTube video without him. He’s got four of them.
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Brad: Nice.
Mike: One of them that’s really cool is the first one goes, “Hey wait, it’s Ryan Deiss. I know you’re getting ready to hit that skip ad button. Let me just tell you something.” He addresses that. I don’t know if it’s in their terms of service or not. I think it’s interesting.
Brad: That’s exactly what I was talking to somebody else recently about is this is how I would do it. I have a [crosstalk 01:11:23].
Mike: Yeah. You’re interrupting their videos. Address that fact.
Brad: Right.
Mike: “Hey, wait, I know you want to get to your video. Give me just a couple of seconds before you hit that skip ad video.” Then he’s got another one that says this, it’s great. He’s branding the event without having to pay for it because this ad is a minute, is over a minute. He doesn’t pay for the ad. Basically he just looks at it run. This is what it does. It goes, “Are you interested in getting more customers, the latest in traffic and social media? Would you like to learn how to do better video marketing?” All these different things.
He says, “If that’s for you then click this video now. If not, then click skip ad.” It’s like 10 seconds at an hour saying skip ad. If they do that he didn’t pay. He’s advertising it in the local Southern California area. He’s branding his event, at least getting it into people’s mind. Maybe by the 15th time they’re doing it, he didn’t have to pay for the 14 other times to get in their head.
Brad: That’s crazy cool. I could do that with Bacon Wrapped Business, right?
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: I could just …
Mike: Can I give you an example of what I could do with Webinar Jam?
Brad: Mm-‐hmm (affirmative).
Mike: I could go in and I could say, “How many videos are there with GoToWebinar, in the title, the description or the metatext?” It turns out there’s 110,000.
Brad: Dude, I see where you’re going.
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Mike: Now every single time somebody is looking for a GoToWebinar review, GoToWebinar instructions, I can cater a video for that. How to use GoToWebinar. It’s like are you looking to use go-‐to webinar? Do you realize GoToWebinar’s technology is old and outdated? In fact you’re paying $499 a month and you could only get a thousand people on, what if there was a better, less complicated way? I say Webinar Jam, Webinar Jam.
Brad: That’s cool.
Mike: Even if they click, I didn’t pay for that ad, I’m getting in their head, I’m getting in their head and one day they’ll be like, “This is ridiculous. What was that company Webinar Jam I heard that competes?” Even if I do pay for it, it’s great. I’m going to every single person that’s either thinking about buying them or is using them. I can tell them they’re paying too much and not getting enough. I can take their customers away from even free training videos GoToWebinar may have put out there.
Brad: That’s hilarious. You’re trying to get trained on GoToWebinar? Because it’s very confusing.
Mike: You know why we don’t have training videos? Because our product is so easy.
Brad: That’s awesome.
Mike: It’s right out of the box.
Brad: I was also thinking it’d be funny to do your video comes up. Let’s just say you’re advertising Webinar Jam I don’t know. You’ve got cats. Just put the camera on your cats for a second doing some cute stuff because a lot of people go to YouTube for cat videos or just different stuff. Then you pop-‐in. Hey, listen. I know you’re waiting to go to the video. I thought I’d show you this cute little cats while I tell you about Webinar Jam. They may have been watching cat videos as it is. Just understanding why people are on YouTube, what kind of stuff are they going for. Tommie, you know what? I was at your event but I didn’t get to be at the entire thing. Tommie is your, he’s your go-‐to YouTube advertising expert right?
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: I would love an introduction and love to interview him on the show.
Mike: Yes. I’ll get that done.
Brad: Because that’s such a cool topic. I know I’d like to know about as well.
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Mike: Let me do that now. I always promise these things. Then I always forget.
Brad: I know where you live.
Mike: Tommie/Brad Costanzo.
Brad: Nice.
Mike: Hey guys, you should meet.
Brad: There you go.
Mike: Brad Costanzo, this is Tommie. Sorry guys that you got to watch me do this.
Brad: I don’t think they mind. That’s great. I just got the text from you.
Mike: This is Brad. All right, I’ll let you guys take it from there. It’s done a deal.
Brad: That’s cool. Two other cool things that you’ve got going on, because this is what, I want to start letting people understand some more of the resources that you provide them. This is the plug Mike part. I want to do this in a way that, this is really heartfelt because you come bringing not only the knowledge but the tools. Yes, if you’re using webinars or thought about doing it, GoToWebinar is expensive, Webinar Jam uses Google Hangouts. That’s an incredible way to just start hosting your own events.
Give me an example of, for somebody who is trying to start to build their brands, trying to get their message out there, talk to individuals in their market place and give them good content without being highly tech savvy, without having to spend a bunch, how can they use Webinar Jam is just one example? Tell me about somebody who’s used it and grown their brand with it.
Mike: First, thanks for letting us talk about it. Webinar Jam came because it needed to solve a problem. A lot of the software that I did usually solved a problem in my business. We were going to be doing what we call [inaudible 01:16:18] for video genesis. We had 6,000 people register. That may sound like crazy. When you’re in a height of a launch and you’ve got every affiliate registering plus the 70,000 leads that our affiliate centers during the prelaunch we’re inviting to a webinar. They’re highly engaged.
Let’s say only 5% of those people registered. We had 3,000 just from there. Then all the other four. We had a problem with that. We’re going to have 6,000 register for a technology that the max they give you is 1,000 people. Great, everybody at that point was saying, why don’t you guys do a Google Hangout?
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Brad: Yeah.
Mike: We didn’t know much about Hangouts and everybody does always that stupid thing where they try to invite everybody to be a tile underneath a video. You don’t quite understand. What’s the difference between the guy that’s in it and the people that are watching it? You can figure that out in an hour.
The problem that we had was we can do the Hangout. We can’t push an Add to Cart button. There was no chat. We didn’t have a registration page to get the people to register. After they registered, where would they see it, would they watch it on YouTube or did we have to get a separate page for them?
After we get a separate page, number one, where are they registering to? Do I actually have to go in and manually send reminders. It starts in 15 minutes. It’s starting now. There was no front end marketing machine for Hangouts.
I saw an awesome opportunity to basically disrupt GoToWebinar. We could do something for $297 a year that they’re charging $6,000 a year. We can have unlimited people and what we call the Obama phenomena. President Obama, Arianna Huffington and Oprah have not been able to break it. I’m pretty sure you’ll have … It’s powered by Google. They can serve the world. When we say unlimited people, we basically mean everybody in the planet can attend. We also have better marketing landing pages. The GoToWebinar pages are embarrassing.
Brad: Have you seen? They literally just revamped their entire site in the past week. Do you have a GoTo account?
Mike: Yes. Yes we do.
Brad: You should log in at some point. The inside looks better. They give you one new log in registration page. It is so bad on so many levels what they do. It’s mindboggling. This happened this week.
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: I’m blown away.
Mike: All we’ve got to do is we just go to …
Brad: By the way, if GoToWebinar wants to sponsor Bacon Wrapped Business. I take that back completely.
Mike: Do they really?
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Brad: No. I said if they do.
Mike: If they want to, okay.
Brad: I’ll edit this out.
Mike: Yeah. I’ll become your official sponsor like Corn Nuts does for the UFC.
Brad: There we go, yeah.
Mike: They probably regret that every day like what, why did we give it to them just because they paid more than we do?
Brad: I know, right?
Mike: Yeah. The bottom line is GoToWebinar was a good solution for its time. It really is old, outdated, we call it horse and buggy technology in a [far edge 01:19:26]. Google Hangouts is great. If you want to get people on, if you’re a marketer it’s not going to work. You can’t push buttons. You can’t do chat, you can’t bend people, all the things that you would want in a perfect solution.
We took the two solutions and we jammed them together and created Webinar Jam. I can say this, if I didn’t even own the company, you’re a fool to be using GoToWebinar when there’s Webinar Jam. It will out convert landing page visitor to the site down to the shopping cart by the end of the campaign better than GoToWebinar. It’s more affordable.
Brad: I can’t ask for much more than that. That’s one of your flagship products. Obviously you’ve got your training. I’ve talked about you’ve got, how to use video in your marketing, with Video Genesis. You’ve got Traffic Genesis. You’re coming out very soon with Conversion Genesis. What I’m going to do, I’m going to put a link so people can come get information on this. If they want to follow you, if they want to get on your newsletter which I highly recommend.
By the way, what you guys have been doing with your newsletter lately, I know Laura is writing some of the stuff from Traffic Genesis. You probably are. I can always tell Andy’s work. You guys send those out. Your free newsletter dude is more valuable than most people’s paid newsletters. They’re so jam packed with actionable stuff. Like you said, you and Andy Jenkins who is your partner don’t seem like you pull any punches. You give a lot of secrets away for free.
Mike: Yeah. We enjoy giving content and we think that’s why we have a lot of raving fans. We do argue about it. I don’t mean that we have different opinions about it. We question ourselves I should say. We sit down sometimes. We say, “Are we
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giving away too much information?” Even when we give a freemium, some people just give a downloadable report. It immediately gets them to the upsale or the offer. We give a 29 minute training video. It could be affecting our conversions. People love us. We actually do start saying are we treating our free content as if they paid for it?
Brad: Right.
Mike: There may not be anything wrong with it. It does beg the question.
Brad: You have to be careful because as a marketer who is there to … You make a living by selling your intellectual property, it’s like are you quenching people’s thirst before they have a chance to buy, if somebody is starving in the desert and you give them one of these portable tanks that they drive around with water.
Mike: I’ll tell you though, what’s interesting is we tested it, right?
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: We had something that said there were five laws to a successful webinar. No, actually we tell them that after they opt-‐in. When they come to the landing page, it said, “This one trick whatever, this one tactic doubled our webinar registrations.” When they got to the next page, it said, “Hi, it’s Mike Filsaime and Andy Jenkins.” You know there are five laws to a successful webinar. We’re going to go over law number one. The law of your registration page. We went through the training.
At the end, we said, “That was just one of five laws. If you want to get the other four laws, click below this video. You can learn about the other four laws.” The other four laws was just a $7 tripwire. You’ve got to watch a 30 minute training video on law number one.
Then what we did is we said you know what? We’re going to give them the freemium. Then the page that makes the profits. Then the very next page said, “Hi, this is Mike Filsaime and Andy Jenkins. We’ve just sent you a video about the first law of successful registrations. Check your email in 20 minutes. We want to let you know that there are four others.” We immediately went to the sale. We actually saw a slightly lower increase in the sale of that tripwire even though it was only $7 even though so many people saw it.
Brad: Hmm.
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Mike: Our other one, we had a lot of bounce rate, people don’t watch 29 minute videos. For damn hell, the people that saw that video, they said to themselves, “This shit was so good.”
Brad: I got to give them the money.
Mike: “I have got to learn the other four.” Then they say there was only $7. It was a $7 trip wire. That conversion rate Brad I’m telling you was, I’m not even kidding, with something like 26% of the people that eventually made it to that page even though we were losing about 50% of the people.
Brad: Wow.
Mike: Its overall conversion was about 13%. We had about an 11% conversion if they just saw the page. Even factoring all the laws, we still had a higher conversion rate eventually because the training was so indoctrinating.
Brad: Recapping that, they came to the page. It was a, just watch the video first, no opt-‐in or was it opt-‐in to watch the video?
Mike: The first time, it was watch, they opted in, watched the training video.
Brad: The training video is 30 minutes on the first law of the webinar, the registration page?
Mike: Yeah.
Brad: Then the action, this is the winning one, the action right after that was to do what? To go to the tripwire?
Mike: No, no, that was the losing one to go to the trip wire, yeah [crosstalk 01:24:48]
Brad: The winning one right after they watch the 30 minute video, it did what?
Mike: Yeah. I’ll recap it real quick. Both promises were the same.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: The first one we did and then ended up being the winner, the first one we did was they opted in and then we said, “Hey, thanks for opting in. We’re going to give you exactly what we asked for. Here is a 30 minute training on the first law of a successful webinar. It’s increasing registrations. Then at the end of that, we said, “If you like this, there are four more laws. Click the button below this video to find out about them.”
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That went to a third page which was a $7 tripwire that explained what the other four laws were. We lost a lot of people getting to that page because a lot of people bounced out of the other video, bookmarked the page, got distracted and never made it there. When they finally made it there, 26% of those people bought.
Brad: Because on that second page it was another video or that was just a sales page?
Mike: It was just a sales letter $7 sales letter tripwire.
Brad: Wow.
Mike: Ryan Deiss and Frank Kern use a lot.
Brad: That’s really cool.
Mike: We tested against that. We said, “Let’s see what happens if we don’t give them the training.” The test that failed was they opted in, they got a short video that said, “Hey, what you just asked for will be in your inbox in 20 minutes.”
Brad: By the way, let me sell you this.
Mike: Yeah. Let me sell you about the other four laws when you don’t even know about the first law that’s in your inbox.
Brad: That would deliver the value first, yeah.
Mike: We were so convinced that that would do better because so many people were going to … Honestly what caused that test was the breakage of the first video, only 58% of the people that were going through that process were finally seeing the tripwire.
We were like, “How can we get more people to see the trip wire?” “You know what? Let’s just show them the trip wire and tell them to watch that video later.” We got more people to see it but they weren’t indoctrinated. They didn’t love us. Your training is great us and all that stuff, went out the window. In fact it turned into bait-‐and-‐switch almost like, “You just told me you’re going to get something and now you’re selling me something.”
Brad: So many people make that [mistake 01:26:42].
Mike: It turns out the training did a better job.
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Brad: Yeah. That’s cool. I love that. One other thing I want to plug for you because I say this not for commercial reasons though I think that’s always part of it. You’ve got another system called DealGuardian. DealGuardian is a … If you as the listener are selling anything online, information products or whatever. You’ve been frustrated with, whether it’s with ClickBank or PayPal or doing it on your own, setting up, God forbid you use Infusionsoft or set up some stuff that is highly complicated. The tech side is a pain, go to the dealguardian.com.
Mike: DealGuardian is a better ClickBank. If they’ve heard of JVZoo it’s very similar to that. The difference is we do all the processing like ClickBank. We also do Adaptive Payments which means you and your affiliate can get paid instantly if the customer pays with PayPal and you choose to take that option.
Brad: Just internally when we were over, on that exact computer you’re talking on now, we were going through, you, me and Larry were going through some of the different developments. It is really intuitive and cool, covers a lot of the things. Because you’re a smaller company than a ClickBank or otherwise, you can make those changes. You’re marketing. You’re making these changes for you because you’re selling your stuff on DealGuardian as it is.
Mike: Yeah. We process $11 million just in the last year with DealGuardian, over 8 million of that was our own products.
Brad: Right.
Mike: It works for us. It’s robust. We wouldn’t use it, honestly we wouldn’t use it if it didn’t work for us.
Brad: Right. You’ve got some major change, you don’t have to go through all of them. You’ve got some major …
Mike: We’re going to compete with Infusionsoft in about 90 days yeah. We’re bringing a full CRM, an email marketing system and allowing people the option to bring their own merchant account or let us process. They’ll have more choices. We’re going to be an easier, more affordable Infusionsoft. Infusionsoft, if anybody on your team is a Bacon Wrapped Business marketer lover, you’re listening to this, just be aware what we did to GoToWebinar. We’re coming [crosstalk 01:28:55].
Brad: Yeah, that’s right. I look forward to seeing it because I know I’ve dealt with Infusionsoft enough, got to love them.
Mike: They want to sponsor you for your next [crosstalk 01:29:05].
Brad: Exactly. Once more if you’ve got money I will edit this out.
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Mike: Shamelessly.
Brad: I am.
Mike: Throw the money I’m shameless.
Brad: Exactly. Mike, this is awesome. I really appreciate you being on the show here. We’ve done an hour and a half.
Mike: Have we been on for over an hour and a half?
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: I didn’t pay attention. I just saw there as 53 minutes past the hour.
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: I was like, I forgot we started late. I thought we were on for like 45 minutes, oh my goodness.
Brad: This has been awesome. You’ve lived up to the show’s name. You dropped some bacon wrapped strategies which is what it’s all about.
Mike: [Crosstalk 01:29:42] pans in there man.
Brad: You like that?
Mike: You should have more pans.
Brad: I do need more pans. This is sizzling hot. Mike, it’s so greasy.
Mike: It’s so greasy.
Brad: It’s so greasy Mike. I don’t think …
Mike: Grease shoots there a little bit.
Brad: I should have the grease show. I should talk about all of the scummy, unethical crap that’s going on out there.
Mike: Yeah. We’ll call that microwave strategies.
Brad: Turkey baking.
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Mike: Yeah. Turkey, if I’m going to eat bacon I want the real deal. In fact I want to take the grease left over from yesterday’s bacon that’s white. I want to reheat it and deep fry my next bacon in that bacon fat. That’s why I want to do bacon wrapped marketing.
Brad: Dude, that’s genius. You’re making me hungry now. Dude, I appreciate.
Mike: One day that will be a testimonial on your video page. I’ll be going through your site. I love this interview. It will just be me talking about how to make bacon recipe.
Brad: Mike bacon recipe. Brother, I appreciate your time. This has been awesome. Every single person on here, if you’re listening to the audio, once more, there’s a video version of this at baconwrappedbusiness/mikef. It’s Mike Filsaime. It’d be easier just to go to Mike .F. for it if you’re listening to this. You’ll get all the show notes, all the links, all the ways that you can purchase anything that Mike has to offer. I can tell you right now he makes marketing a lot easier. You’re one of us. You know what we go through. You’ve created a lot of the stuff for your own purposes. I’ve enjoyed watching your rise in the past eight years that I’ve been doing this. I can’t believe it’s been that long.
For my show listeners, I highly encourage you to get on my newsletter, subscribe to the show on iTunes if you’re not. Every once in a while I get people who are listening to one show. They think, this is great. I wish I knew how to get updated more often. There’s two ways. Number one is subscribe to the newsletter. You can always do that on baconwrappedbusiness.com. There’s an ample way …
Mike: Just subscribe, it makes you feel good [crosstalk 01:31:54].
Brad: Where is that from?
Mike: Basically, I’m sorry to interrupt your closing. Yes guys, subscribe, make sure to subscribe because there’s only going to be great stuff like this because I know the people that Brad knows in the industry. I know his connections, the people that he doesn’t know. They’re only going to be better than me. I can promise. I’ll probably be back just to keep the bar low. If you’re the listeners, you hear me say that. There’s this guy named Putty Pie.
Brad: Putty Pie, that’s who it was yeah.
Mike: He’s on, they just did a party on him on South Park. It’s called hashtag rehash, basically Cartman goes around rehashing other people’s commentary. It’s a whole show about that. Kids don’t even play video games anymore. They just
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watch other people play video games. I didn’t even know about this guy called Putty Pie and all this stupid stuff he does.
Brad: You looked him up after the show didn’t you? Because I did too.
Mike: I did. I looked him up. I literally said, “How can he be the number one channel on YouTube besides YouTube’s video channels and stuff.”
Brad: Yeah.
Mike: Then I realized where Cartman got all this stuff, the fast cuts, he was like, “Hey bro, make sure to subscribe.” Cartman is like, “Because subscribing makes you feel good.” Then he [crosstalk 01:33:03].
Brad: That’s where it was from. Putty Pie, I felt stupid or what? I got halfway through one of those videos. I’m like, “Oh my God.”
Mike: Don’t do anything he does please.
Brad: No, no, lightening in a bottle but …
Mike: Fast cuts.
Brad: Absolutely. That being said, you can also subscribe on iTunes if you’re listening. Hit that subscribe button because this will just be automatically sent to your phone. You can listen to this drivel as much as you want, drivel while you drive. That’s my next podcast. Drivel while you drive.
Mike: With some giblets.
Brad: Yeah. If you have any questions for me, if you’d like to share your own bacon wrapped strategies, if you’ve got a business and you’d like to understand how to potentially grow it, if you’re stuck, if you’re plateaued just getting started or you want to give me money just because you want my brain power on your business, send an email to [email protected]. I will read it. I also read those iTunes reviews by the way. ITunes reviews make me feel good.
Mike: You’ve got to do it now.
Brad: I know. Damn it. What’s funny is we’ve probably watched because it’s about 5:00 here now. My view is …
Mike: You’re starting to see the difference in the lighting?
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Brad: Yeah. Mine is definitely a lot darker now.
Mike: Yeah. I was going to say that. It was completely bright when you started. I’ve literally seen by the minute get darker behind you. Mine was so bright because I was at this window.
Brad: Now it’s normal.
Mike: Now I look normal.
Brad: Yeah that’s awesome. I appreciate your time Mike. Look forward to seeing you again here real soon.
Mike: I appreciate being here.
Brad: Everybody else, thanks for subscribing. Thanks for feedback. Go check out what Mike has to offer. I guarantee you’ll make more money. Till next time, got a problem wrap it in bacon. Bye-‐bye, because bacon makes you feel good.
Mike: Bacon makes you feel good. They’re going to write it on my business card.
Brad: That’s awesome.
Mike: We’ll throw in bacon. Take it easy guys.
Brad: Bye-‐bye.
Mike: Subscribe.
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