OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS - LegCo · programme in the Government's promotion of recreation and sport and as part of the youth activities run in Community and Youth Centres. "Tai

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—18th May 1977 891

OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGSWednesday, 18th May 1977

The Council met at half past two o'clock

PRESENT

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT)SIR CRAWFORD MURRAY MACLEHOSE, GBE, KCMG, KCVOTHE HONOURABLE THE CHIEF SECRETARYSIR DENYS TUDOR EMIL ROBERTS, KBE, QC, JPTHE HONOURABLE THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (Acting)MR DAVID HAROLD JORDAN, CMG, MBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Acting)MR GARTH CECIL THORNTON, QCTHE HONOURABLE THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRSMR LI FOOK-KOW, CMG, JPTHE HONOURABLE DAVID AKERS-JONES, JPSECRETARY FOR THE NEW TERRITORIESTHE HONOURABLE LEWIS MERVYN DAVIES, CMG, OBE, JPSECRETARY FOR SECURITYTHE HONOURABLE DAVID WYLIE McDONALD, JPDIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKSTHE HONOURABLE KENNETH WALLIS JOSEPH TOPLEY, CMG, JPDIRECTOR OF EDUCATIONTHE HONOURABLE IAN ROBERT PRICE, CBE, TD, JPCOMMISSIONER FOR LABOURTHE HONOURABLE DAVID GREGORY JEAFFRESON, JPSECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICESTHE HONOURABLE ALAN JAMES SCOTT, JPSECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICETHE HONOURABLE EDWARD HEWITT NICHOLS, OBE, JPDIRECTOR OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIESTHE HONOURABLE THOMAS LEE CHUN-YON, JPDIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARETHE HONOURABLE DEREK JOHN CLAREMONT JONES, JPSECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENTDR THE HONOURABLE THONG KAH-LEONG, JPDIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICESTHE HONOURABLE ERIC PETER HO, JPSECRETARY FOR SOCIAL SERVICESTHE HONOURABLE DAVID RAYMOND BOY, JPSOLICITOR GENERAL (Acting)THE HONOURABLE DONALD LIAO POON-HUAI, OBE, JPSECRETARY FOR HOUSING (Acting)THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM DORWARD, OBE, JPDIRECTOR OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY (Acting)DR THE HONOURABLE CHUNG SZE-YUEN, CBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE LEE QUO-WEI, CBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE OSWALD VICTOR CHEUNG, CBE, QC, JP

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—18th May 1977892

THE HONOURABLE ROGERIO HYNDMAN LOBO, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE PETER GORDON WILLIAMS, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE JAMES WU MAN-HON, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE HILTON CHEONG-LEEN, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE LI FOOK-WO, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE JOHN HENRY BREMRIDGE, OBE, JPDR THE HONOURABLE HARRY FANG SIN-YANG, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE MRS KWAN KO SIU-WAH, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE LO TAK-SHING, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE FRANCIS YUAN-HAO TIEN, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE ALEX WU SHU-CHIH, OBE, JPTHE REV THE HONOURABLE JOYCE MARY BENNETT, JPTHE HONOURABLE CHEN SHOU-LUM, JPDR THE HONOURABLE HENRY HU HUNG-LICK, OBE, JPTHE HONOURABLE LEUNG TAT-SHING, JPTHE REV THE HONOURABLE PATRICK TERENCE McGOVERN, SJ, JPTHE HONOURABLE PETER C. WONG, JPTHE HONOURABLE WONG LAM, JP

ABSENT

THE HONOURABLE MISS LYDIA DUNN, JP

IN ATTENDANCE

THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCILMRS LOLLY TSE CHIU YUEN-CHU

Papers

The following papers were laid pursuant to Standing Order 14(2):—

Subject LN No

Subsidiary Legislation:—

Acetylating Substances (Control) Ordinance.Acetylating Substances (Control) (Amendment) Regulations 1977 ........ 98

Hong Kong Airport (Regulations) Ordinance.Hong Kong Airport (Amendment) Regulations 1977.............................. 99

Road Traffic Ordinance.Road Traffic (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No 2)

Regulations 1977 ..................................................................... 103


Subject LN No

Telecommunication Ordinance.Telecommunication (Cable and Wireless Limited) (Amendment of

Licence) Order 1977 ................................................................104

Country Parks Ordinance 1976.Tai Po Kau Nature Reserve (Special Area) Order 1977....................... 105

Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance.Hawker (Permitted Place) Declaration No 8/1977............................... 106

Sessional Paper 1976-77:—

No 47—Supplementary Provisions approved by the Urban Council during theFourth Quarter of the Fiscal Year 1976-77 (published on 18.5.77)

Oral answers to questions

Martial arts

1. MR CHEONG-LEEN asked:—

Sir, will Government take steps to include genuine martial arts activitieswithin the broad framework of Government's policy to promotephysical recreation, sports and culture?

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS:—Sir, martial arts activities already form part of theprogramme in the Government's promotion of recreation and sport and as part of the youthactivities run in Community and Youth Centres. "Tai Kik" which is the most common andpopular form of martial arts practised in Hong Kong is among the many activities organizedand promoted by the Recreation and Sport Service. During the year 1976-77, a total of 143Tai Kik classes were organized with over 25,000 participants. The Recreation and SportService has recently extended its activities to other forms of martial arts and sinceDecember last year, 11 courses have been organized with over 500 participants. In addition,there are currently over 27 martial arts classes being run in Community and Youth Centresby the Social Welfare Department and voluntary agencies with over 580 participants.

MR CHEONG-LEEN:—Sir, is any legislation being contemplated to eliminate thecriminal connection with martial arts activities? And if such is being considered, is there apossibility that such legislation can be introduced during this session?


Oral answers

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS:—I believe this question was asked in this Council inDecember last year. When the Secretary for Security answered the question, he confirmedthat legislation was being drafted. I think this is now in its final stages but whether or notwe will be able to make the current session is something that I have not looked into.

Hong Kong Passports

2. MR F. W. LI asked:—

Sir, (a) how many applications for Hong Kong Passports are outstanding?

(b) what is the average interval between an application for a passport and its issue?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY:—Sir, 2,571 at 30th April. For 85% of applications up to10 working days elapse for the issue of a new passport and up to 6 working days for areplacement passport. The remaining 17% take longer depending on the individualcircumstances of the applicant.

MR F. W. LI:—Sir, what is the average number of applications per month? Is thefigure of 2,571 at the end of April considered normal?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY:—The number, Sir, is about 80,000 per annum. The figuretherefore at 30th April, depending on seasonal travel, is about the norm.

Desalting plant

3. DR CHUNG asked:—

Sir, in accordance with Standing Order 19(6) and with the consent of myabsent Colleague Miss Lydia DUNN, may I with your permission, Sir,ask Question No 3. The question is:—

Will Government state:—

(a) the contribution the desalting plant will make to Hong Kong'swater supply system over the twelve months ending 30thApril 1978?

(b) the extent to which this contribution will reduce theprobability of restrictions having to be imposed if rainfallduring the Summer months is below average?


DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—Sir, the desalter could contribute 10,700 milliongallons to our overall water resources over the twelve months period ending 30th April1978.

If rainfall during the summer is 9% below average, as forecast by the RoyalObservatory, and with the aforementioned contribution from the desalter, restrictions insupply to about 16 hours per day will need to be enforced throughout the dry season.Without the desalter contribution restrictions during the dry season would be more severewith supply being reduced to about 8 hours per day.

DR CHUNG:—Sir, the production of 10,700 million gallons of water over a period of12 months works out to be about 30 million gallons per day. Will the Director of PublicWorks state what is the maximum output of the desalter per day?

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—Sir, the maximum output from each unit of thedesalter would be approximately 6.67 million gallons per day.

DR CHUNG:—Sir, what is the maximum output for all the units of the desalter, thewhole plant?

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—Sir, during the period it would be 10,700 milliongallons. This is because only 3 units are in operation at present, one more would come intooperation in June and two more units would come into operation in September.

MR PETER C. WONG:—Sir, has Government any plans to increase the capacity of thedesalting plant?

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—Yes, Sir, in due course, the intention would be toincrease the present desalter from a 40 million gallons per day output to a 60 milliongallons per day output.

Youth Services

4. MR CHEONG-LEEN asked:—

Sir, will Government sponsor, or support the sponsoring of a Seminar onYouth Services during 1977/78 for the purpose of establishing a morecoherent, more meaningful and more comprehensive dialoguebetween Government and the voluntary agencies which are active inproviding developmental, rehabilitation and preventive socialservices for young people?


Oral answers

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, I would like to assure Mr CHEONG-LEEN thatGovernment is constantly in dialogue with the voluntary sector in all areas of social welfareincluding services for young people. Voluntary agencies through the Council of SocialService are actively involved in the planning and review of social welfare services.

The Council of Social Service regularly organizes seminars on social welfarematters which are of concern to the community. The Government participates in suchseminars by providing papers and speakers and by making contributions to discussions. Ifthe Council of Social Service proposes to hold a seminar on services for young people,Government will no doubt support and participate in the usual manner.

Public light bus————fares

5. MR S. L. CHEN asked:—

Sir, in view of he sporadic increase in fares by public light bus operators,will Government consider enforcing appropriate control over the farestructure of public light buses?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT:—Sir, with the exception of the so-called"Maxicab" services, which operate on fixed routes, schedules and fares, public light busesare a non-franchised form of public transport. They compete with each other and I mightadd also with the large buses and are permitted to vary their routes and frequencies inaccordance with their own estimate of the demand for their services.

The Government has considered the possibility of controlling the fares of this formof transport but, on the advice of the Transport Advisory Committee, it has decided againstdoing so. For to control fares would, in effect, mean denying the competitive nature of thisform of public transport, with its flexible routes and with passengers being given theopportunity of being picked up or set down at any point. The fact is that competition amongPLBs is normally sufficient to ensure a reasonable uniformity of fares. It is only in periodsof very high demand that fare levels can be pushed higher. What this amounts to, however,is no more than the operation of normal market forces and, in that respect, is no differentfrom, say, the fixing of the prices of vegetables or fish.

Furthermore, it would be extremely difficult to devise a scheme for controlling thefares of public light buses while at the same time retaining the flexible nature of theiroperations. Given the nature of the


business, it would not be difficult to devise means to circumvent almost any controls andthey would therefore not be easily enforceable.

DR CHUNG:—Sir, is Government aware that such increases are as much as 200%during some peak periods and these are tantamount to profiteering?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT:—Yes, Sir, the Government is aware that insome circumstances you can have a considerable increase, but this is in a situation ofexceptionally high demand and very rarely happens. To control the fares of all public lightbuses because of a few abuses would not be, in my view, in the public interest.

REV JOYCE M. BENNETT:—Sir, does not the competitive nature of the public lightbuses increase the chaos on our roads?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT:—Sir, any excess traffic increases the chaos onthe roads. An excess number of private cars could do exactly the same. The fact is thatGovernment has licensed almost 4,500 public light buses now and there is no way of de-licensing them. They are allowed to operate and they operate, in our view, in a way whichmakes a considerable contribution to public transport in Hong Kong.

Pharmacy Course

6. DR FANG asked:—

Sir, what is the present position on the earlier proposal to establish apharmacy course locally either in one of the Universities or in thePolytechnic?

SECRETARY FOR SOCIAL SERVICES:—Sir, Government is considering in conjunctionwith the Director of the Polytechnic the possibility of establishing a health services divisionwithin the Polytechnic that would take over responsibility for providing para-medicaltraining in Hong Kong. With this in view the Polytechnic has commenced recruitment of asuitable expert to plan the requirements for a new health services division. The Director ofMedical and Health Services is also working on our requirement for pharmacists over thenext 10 years. Government intends to seek the views of the Medical Development AdvisoryCommittee as well as those of the University and Polytechnic Grants Committee on the bestway of meeting this requirement before coming to any final decision in the matter.


Oral answers

DR FANG:—Sir, is this course arranged to be held at the Polytechnic, a degree courseor a diploma course?

SECRETARY FOR SOCIAL SERVICES:—Sir, I don't think we can assume that the coursewill, in fact, be at the Polytechnic although the present indication is that it would appear tobe the most appropriate institution for the conducting of this course. So, I must beg to deferfrom answering the hypothetical question which Dr FANG asks in the second part of thesupplementary.

Crime in Public Housing Estates

7. MISS KO asked:—

Sir, (a) does Government consider that the incidence of crime inpublic housing estates and playgrounds in these areas hasbeen sufficiently contained, and

(b) if not, would Government further strengthen the policepresence and introduce other additional measures to fightcrime in these areas?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY:—No, Sir. Crime will only be considered to be sufficientlycontained in an area when it has been eradicated.

While there will be no let up in the fight against crime, either in housing estates andplaygrounds or elsewhere, I must reiterate what I said in reply to a question from Miss KO

in this Council on 28th April, that it is necessary to concentrate our efforts on the areas ofgreatest need. Action by the police and by members of the public has resulted in asignificant reduction in the amount of crime committed in housing estates and playgrounds.The number of crimes reported in public housing estates in the first quarter of 1977 was2,350 compared with a quarterly average of 3,190 for 1976, a 26 per cent drop. Theprovision of 20 Neighbourhood Policing Units and 33 Reporting Centres in Estates hascontributed to this improvement.

MISS KO:—Sir, does Government do everything possible to ensure the safety fromcriminals of children and young people while they are on the way to or returning fromyouth activities and study-rooms especially in the evening?


SECRETARY FOR SECURITY:—I very much hope so, yes, Sir. The duty of the districtpolice commander is quite clear. It is to maintain law and order in his district and he appliesa very large police force within his organization as flexibly as he can to achieve thatoutcome.

China Engineers Building

8. DR HU asked:—

Sir, in view of the order issued to demolish the China Engineers Building, isGovernment considering any form of assistance to the tenants?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT:—Sir, when a dangerous industrial building hasto be closed, the primary responsibility for assisting tenants must lie with the landlord. Thisis because the building is owned by him and he has contracted to accommodate the tenantsin it in return for their payment of rent. So, in this sort of case, the Government's chiefconcern must be to see that the landlord fulfils his responsibilities to his tenants. It is notright that the Government should relieve him of those responsibilities, at the expense of thetaxpayers, and, by so doing, to encourage others to evade similar responsibilities in thefuture.

In the case of the closure of the China Engineers Building, the landlord has offeredall the displaced tenants assistance in removing their factory equipment and in providingtemporary storage for such equipment. He has also assisted the tenants to find alternativeaccommodation to enable them to restart their operations. While the Government has kept aclose watch on the situation from the beginning, it has quite properly confined its assistanceto advising on the availability of other industrial premises in the East Kowloon area, inoffering mediation between employers and employees, and in providing advice regardingalternative jobs to those workers wishing to seek them.

Child Care Centres Regulations


Sir, has progress on the implementation of the Child Care Centres Regulations so farbeen satisfactory?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, as far as child care centres run by welfareorganizations are concerned, progress has been satisfactory. All the 100 child care centresin this category have applied for registration under the Child Care Centres Ordinance. It isexpected that about


[DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE] Oral answers

81 of these centres will have completed registration before the end of May 1977. The othersare actively making alterations to their premises with financial help from the Lotteries Fundto meet the requirements of Public Works and Fire Services Departments. However,progress has not been too satisfactory in the registration of private child care centres. Out ofthe 90 such centres which have applied for registration, only 30 of them will be able tocomplete registration before the end of this month. 31 centres being grossly unsuitable andbasically unregistrable have been asked to close. The others are still making improvementsto their premises to comply with the requirements of the Ordinance.

MISS KO:—Sir, will Government in the near future review the Child Care CentresRegulations and, if necessary, make appropriate revisions?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, perhaps I should mention that the regulationsare being implemented in three stages. Stage 1 requires that the centres must be safe,structurally and in relation to fire precautions, and that the children must be provided withadequate food and supervision. The need for a review of the regulations was discussed bythe Social Welfare Advisory Committee at one of its recent meetings. It was recommendedthat during the current financial year, the Department in conjunction with the Day NurseriesCommittee of the Hong Kong Council of Social Service should review the situation in thelight of experience gained during stage 1, and this will be carried out.

MR LOBO:—May I know, Sir, the number of children involved in the centres whichare not going to be able to be registered and those who are not completed before thelegislation comes into effect, and if the Social Welfare Department has made arrangementsto look after these children?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, I shall reply to this in my answer to Miss KO'snext question.

Child Care Centres


Sir, are there provisions to cope with the problems of children beingdisplaced by the closure of these child care centres


which fail to comply with the required operational standards by 1stJune this year?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, during the current financial year welfareagencies will be setting up new child care centres with the support of the Lotteries Fundand Government subvention to provide 1,100 new places, making a total of 11,000 placesproviding child care service. In addition, welfare agencies are being encouraged to set upmore centres as accommodation in new housing estates becomes available. This will tosome extent meet the demand for service created by the closure of the unregistrable centres,which are usually rather small centres, each catering for an average of 10 children.

In the meantime, I have been in discussion with the Hong Kong Council of SocialService on a proposal to invite voluntary organizations to establish non-profit making andself-supporting nurseries in both private and public housing accommodation to cater forchildren of working mothers who are able and willing to pay an economic fee for theservice. Although no subvention should be required for such nurseries, consideration isbeing given to assist these projects with grants from the Lotteries Fund towards their initialcapital outlay on the ground that while no subsidy on recurrent expenditure is justified,there is a social reason for us to assist in the setting up of a good child care service forworking mothers.

In the private sector, many enquiries and requests for advice are being made to myChild Care Centres Inspectorate on the establishment of new nurseries and play groupswhich will meet the standard required by the Ordinance. No doubt, a number of these newcentres will be in operation to replace the substandard ones which will have to close. Ifurther understand from the Inspectorate that many parents, instead of sending theirchildren to substandard nurseries, are now using kindergartens or the services of child-minders and baby-sitters. All these developments will help to ease the demand created bythe closure of the unregistrable child care centres.

Sir, I would like to assure my Friend, Miss KO, that when we take action against anyof the centres which must be closed down, our social workers will look into the individualcases of children involved and discuss with the parents about the need for placement oftheir children. In cases where no satisfactory arrangement can be made by their parents andwhere a child is in need of care or protection, temporary institutional care will be providedand in this regard, my Department will have the co-operation and support of the voluntaryorganizations providing child welfare services.


Oral answers

REV JOYCE M. BENNETT:—Sir, has the Director of Social Welfare had any contactwith the Education Department in connection with the greater demands for kindergartensbecause of the closing of these child care centres?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, there is a Working Party on Pre-schoolEducation set up consisting of representatives of Education Department and the SocialWelfare Department. They are in the process of discussing this matter.

Water wastage

11. MR LEUNG asked:—

Sir, (a) does Government consider the existing controls over waterwastage adequate, and

(b) if not, would Government consider introducing more effectivemeasures?

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—Sir, the control of waste in the water distributionsystem is the responsibility of the Waterworks Waste Detection Unit. This unit conductsprogrammed tests throughout the whole of the system, area by area, to assess flows and todetect leakage. These measures are considered to be adequate.

The control of wastage arising from careless use or misuse of water by the public isprimarily a matter of education, as such wastage is very much in the consumer's hands.Honourable Members will be aware that the Director of Water Supplies addressed the newsmedia last week, seeking the public's co-operation in conserving water and indicatingeveryday means by which consumption may be reduced. Approaches have been made toKaifongs, Mutual Aid Committees and Village Representatives as well as Governmentbodies, such as the Housing and Home Affairs Departments, enlisting their aid to obtainvoluntary co-operation in avoiding wastage. This is part of an overall campaign to conservewater, which will shortly be intensified.

As far as enforcement is concerned, action will be taken against offenders under theprovisions of the Waterworks Ordinance. The staff of the Water Supplies Department hasbeen alerted to the need for greater vigilance and the public's assistance has also beenrequested in bringing to the department's notice any instances of wastage. This willsupplement the activities of the Waterworks Prosecution Unit in the


detection of illegal users. The Prosecution Unit's activities have increased as a result of therecent secondment to it of additional staff. For the present these controls are considered tobe adequate although they are kept under continuous review.

MR CHEUNG:—Sir, what are the existing controls over leakage from pipes anddistribution mains as distinct from wastage for careless use or misuse of water?

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—The Waste Detection Unit carries out these tests atthe moment during the night, checking on the flows in the system and determining leakageby checking with past records. As for wastage, it is rather difficult to determine itsproportion. This can only be assessed by inspection of the system and getting reports fromthe public and from other parts of the Waterworks Unit.

Continuous Broadcasting Service

12. MR CHEUNG asked:—

Sir, will Government consider establishing a continuous service broadcastingweather forecasts, warnings of torrential rain, typhoons, fog, flooding,landslides, fires and other actual or impending dangers, roadconditions, traffic blocks and other information of which timelydissemination is essential?

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS:— Sir, I understand that the Director, RoyalObservatory will be conducting test broadcasts to determine the technical feasibility of aseparate and continuous broadcast of time signals and meteorological information with aview to introducing an experimental weather broadcasting service later this year. It is notpossible to say at the present time whether this service should be put on a permanent basisand whether it can cover the scope envisaged in Mr CHEUNG's question until Governmenthas had an opportunity to assess whether this experimental service will attract significantaudiences and whether it might duplicate some of the services now provided by RTHK.

MR CHEUNG:— Sir, as time signals and meteorological information has beenbroadcast by Radio Hong Kong for a great number of years, what precisely are these testbroadcasts the Director of Royal Observatory is about to embark on?


Oral answers

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS:—I mentioned, Sir, that they were technical tests andthey are aimed to check installation and functioning of the equipment. Because of a widecoverage the equipment will have to be moved from the Royal Observatory to Tate's Cairnand also they are aimed to measure signal strength as well as to establish physical receptionarea of the transmission.

MR CHEUNG:—Sir, would resources be made available to the Observatory formaking these test broadcasts and the Director's report on the feasibility evaluated with someexpedition and then broadcast to the public?

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS:—Sir, on the first part of the question I understandthat the Director is able to conduct the experiment without any extra resources, in otherwords, he can do so with his existing resources. As regards the second part, I will certainlyurge my Colleagues in the Government Secretariat to process the report when it is received.(laughter)

Government business

Motions

LEGAL AID ORDINANCE

THE CHIEF SECRETARY moved the following motion:—

Under subsection (2) of section 7 of the Legal Aid Ordinance, that theamounts of disposable income and disposable capital specified insubsection (1) of that section be amended, with effect from 1st June1977, by substituting:—(i) for "seven hundred dollars", "one thousand dollars"; and(ii) for "four thousand dollars", "ten thousand dollars".

He said:—Sir, I move the motion standing in my name of the Order Paper.

When the Legal Aid Ordinance was enacted in 1966, legal aid was made available incivil cases to persons whose disposable income did not exceed $500 a month and whosecapital resources did not exceed $3,000.


These limits were raised in 1972 to $700 a month and $4,000. Between then andSeptember 1976, the index of nominal average daily wages showed an increase of about40%.

Consequently, it is likely that a smaller proportion of the population qualifies forcivil legal aid than in 1972, in spite of the more generous methods of assessing disposableincome and capital which were introduced in 1973 and 1974.

The growth in the numbers of legal aid certificates issued in civil cases has beensubstantial, from 411 in 1967, to 1,376 in 1971 and 2,302 last year.

These figures show that members of the public have become increasingly aware ofthe availability of civil legal aid and of the benefits which it can bring.

This Resolution proposes to raise the limits of disposable income and capital to$1,000 a month and $10,000 respectively. These changes should ensure that more personswill become eligible for civil legal aid than at any time since the inception of the scheme in1966. It is thought that about 60% of the population (including dependants) would qualify,though this can be no more than a rough estimate.

Legal aid in civil cases is an important social service and I am sure that Memberswill agree that it is important that its benefits should be available to a larger proportion ofthe population than at present.

Question put and agreed to.

FACTORIES AND INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS ORDINANCE

THE COMMISSIONER FOR LABOUR moved the following motion:—

That the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Protection of Eyes)Regulations 1977, made by the Commissioner for Labour on the 4thMay 1977, be approved.

He said:—Sir, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper for theapproval of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Protection of Eyes) Regulations1977. These regulations were made by me on 4th May 1977 and have been submitted toYour Excellency in accordance with the provisions of section 7(3) of the principalordinance.


[THE COMMISSIONER FOR LABOUR] Motions

As I mentioned in this Council on 10th November 1976, the protective ring ofoccupational safety regulations is now nearly completed, but among items outstanding isthe important area of protection of the eyes of workers. Unfortunately, accidents to eyes areall too frequent, and in recent years the number of workers who have received eye injuriesin the course of their employment has risen annually by about 12% from 600 in 1973 to 836in 1976. Fortunately none of these were fatal. However, any eye injury, even a trivial one, ishighly unpleasant, and severe injury to both eyes can result in a 100% loss of earningcapacity. It was with these factors in mind that I decided to make these regulations, adaptedfrom the United Kingdom's Protection of Eyes Regulations 1974, requiring employers toprovide suitable protection for the eyes of workers in certain industrial processes known tobe particularly dangerous to the eyes.

The main provisions include the following:—

(i) Regulations 5 and 6 require a proprietor of an industrial undertaking whereany of the processes specified in the schedule are carried out to provideapproved eye protectors, approved eye shields or approved fixed shields notonly for the use of every person employed in any of the specified processes,but also for use by any other person who may be exposed to a risk of injury tohis eyes from that process.

(ii) Regulation 7 requires the proprietor of an industrial undertaking to maintainin good condition the protective equipment which he provides, to makearrangement for its storage, and to take reasonable steps to ensure that thosefor whom the protective equipment is supplied make full and proper use of it.

(iii) Regulation 8 requires an employee who has been provided with protectiveequipment to make full and proper use of it and to report to the proprietor theloss or destruction of, or damage or defect to, such equipment.

(iv) Regulation 3(2) permits the Commissioner for Labour to exempt anyindustrial undertaking from these regulations if he is satisfied that therequirements in respect of which the exemption is granted are not necessaryor are not reasonably practicable.

(v) Regulation 9 provides for penalties. A proprietor of an industrial undertakingwho commits an offence under Regulations 5, 6 or 7 is liable to a fine up to amaximum of $5,000.


If any other person contravenes the provisions of these regulations, he willon conviction be liable to a fine of up to $2,000.

On 24th August 1976 the Labour Advisory Board unanimously endorsed theproposal to make these regulations and subsequently the four main employers associationsalso supported this move.

In the very near future under Regulation 4(1) I propose to prescribe by notice in theGazette approved specifications in respect of eye protectors, shields and fixed shields forthe purpose of these regulations which, other than Part 1, will not come into operation untilthe expiry of a period of 90 days from the date of publication of such notice in the Gazette.

These prescribed specifications will be by reference to standards approvedelsewhere, British and American to begin with followed possibly later by others. Thesespecifications will enable a proprietor of an industrial undertaking to ascertain easily thatthe eye protector that he purchases is up to the standard approved by the Commissioner forLabour.

MR JAMES WU:—Sir, I have pleasure in supporting the motion before Council.Indeed, I feel that considering the importance of eyesight and the harm that could be easilybe done to it in a hazardous trade or work-place, the introduction of these regulations islong overdue.

I also feel that the message of the Regulations should be brought to the shop-floorfor the constant attention and reminder of both the management and in particular, theworkers, by the use of colourful posters. Experience has shown that all too often, workersdo not bother to use or wear protective gears because they are not accustomed to them,thereby resulting in tragic accidents that could never be remedied.

As the Commissioner of Labour said, there would be 90 days before theseRegulations are brought into force after being gazetted. I sincerely hope that this timewould be put to good use in publicity and education to bring awareness to the shop-floor.

COMMISSIONER FOR LABOUR:—Sir, I thank Mr James WU for the support of themotion. I confirm there will be adequate publicity given to these new regulations, that thefactory inspectorate during visits to


[THE COMMISSIONER FOR LABOUR] Motions

industrial undertakings will draw attention to the standards gazetted and will also offeradvice and assistance.


First reading of bills

ESTATE DUTY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

INLAND REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

RATING (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

STAMP (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

PRISONS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) (NO 2) BILL 1977

SUMMARY OFFENCES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

AGRICULTURAL PESTICIDES BILL 1977

Second reading of bills

ESTATE DUTY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the second reading of:—"A bill to amend theEstate Duty Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the main purpose of the bill is to implement the proposals describedin paragraph 221 of the Budget Speech.

Clause 3 of the bill amends section 13 of the principal Ordinance by raising themaximum allowance for funeral expenses of $10,000. Clauses 2, 4 and 5 makeconsequential amendments.

Clause 6 of the bill adds a new Thirteenth Schedule setting out the rates of dutyapplicable to the estate of persons dying on or after the commencement of this bill, ifenacted.

These amendments have the effect of increasing the exemption limit for Estate Dutyfrom $300,000 to $400,000 and of increasing the maximum allowance for funeral expensesfrom $5,000 to $10,000 with abolition of the overriding limit, which now applies, of 2

21 %

of the value of the free estate.


The cost to the revenue of these amendments in 1977-78 is about $1.5 million.

Motion made. That the debate on the second reading of the bill be adjourned—THE

FINANCIAL SECRETARY.


INLAND REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the second reading of:—"A bill to amend theInland Revenue Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the main purpose of the bill is to implement the proposal inparagraphs 211 to 214 of the Budget Speech as modified in the Financial Secretary's speechwinding up the Debate.

Clause 2 of the bill amends Section 42B of the principal Ordinance by providing forfirstly a new supplementary allowance of $2,500 for a single person and a newsupplementary allowance of $5,000 for a married person; secondly, a progressive reductionof the supplementary allowances by 15% of the amount by which the taxpayer's incomeexceeds the supplemented basic allowance until the supplementary allowances areeliminated, and thirdly an increase in child allowances from $3,000 to $4,000 for the firstchild, from $2,500 to $3,000 for the second child and from $1,500 to $2,000 for the thirdchild.

These amendments have the effect of removing some 50,000 small taxpayers fromthe tax net and keeping out a further 10,000 who would otherwise become liable forprovisional tax for the year of assessment 1977-78, and of giving some relief to salaries andpersonal assessment taxpayers in the lower and middle income ranges.

The new supplementary allowances and increased child allowances will apply for allfinal salaries tax and personal assessments for the year of assessment 1976-77 and forassessments in respect of subsequent years of assessment. The cost to revenue for theseamendments is estimated at $74 million for 1977-78.

The opportunity is taken also to increase the size of the Inland Revenue Board ofReview from 60 to 75 to provide a larger membership to cope with increased commitments.Clause 3 of the bill provides for this increase.


Inland Revenue (Amendment) Bill————second reading




RATING (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the second reading of:—"A bill to amend theRating Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the purpose of the bill is to implement the proposal described inparagraphs 202 and 203 of the Budget Speech providing for temporary relief to cushion theimpact of the increased rates payable in 1977-78, where these rates would otherwise besubstantially higher than those payable in 1976-77.

Clause 2 of the bill adds a new section to the principal Ordinance to provide that,for the years 1977-78 and 1978-79, the rates payable for any tenement shall not be morethan one-third higher than the rates payable in the immediately preceding year. For the year1979-80 and subsequent years, this relief is available only where the rent of the tenement iscontrolled under Part I of the Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance.

Provision is made for the Commissioner for Rating and Valuation to ascertain therates that would have been payable in the preceding year in cases where an existingtenement had not been separately valued in the valuation list in force on 31st March 1977.There is also provision for refunds in cases of over-payment.

All the provisions of the bill have become effective since 1st April 1977 as a resultof an Order made by Your Excellency under the Public Revenue Protection Ordinance.Although the relief is based on the total rates payable, the loss of revenue is to be brone bythe general rate. The estimated cost to revenue is $46 million in the year 1977-78.





STAMP (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the second reading of:—"A bill to amend theStamp Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the main purpose of the bill is to implement the proposals describedin paragraphs 217 to 220 of the Budget Speech.

First the bill provides for exemption from stamp duty of instruments in respect ofservice agreements with corporate bodies, compradore notes, letters of allotment andassignments of letters patent and trade marks. These exemptions are to apply to instrumentswhich would otherwise have become liable to duty on or after 1st April 1977.

Secondly, as a further earnest of the Government's intention to promote homeownership, the bill amends the schedule of the principal ordinance by raising the platformsthat govern the application of concessionary rates of duty on conveyances of low valueproperties from $75,000 and $150,000 to $100,000 and $175,000 respectively.

Thirdly, these new platforms are similarly extended to Head 53(1), in respect ofvoluntary dispositions inter vivos.

All the provisions of the bill as set out have been effective since 1st April 1977 as aresult of an order made by Your Excellency under the Public Revenue Protection Ordinance.The estimated cost to revenue is $15 million for 1977-78.




PRISONS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

THE SECRETARY FOR SECURITY moved the second reading of:—"A bill to amend thePrisons Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the principal objective of the amendments in this bill is to update andstreamline the disciplinary procedures applicable to all persons, both uniformed and civilian,employed in the Prisons Department, bearing in mind the very rapid expansion in theService over the last few years.


[THE SECRETARY FOR SECURITY] Prisons (Amendment) Bill———— second reading

The explanatory memorandum sets out the reasons for the bill, but I have somepoints by way of further elaboration:—

(1) The chief effect of the amendments is to give the Commissioner greaterpowers of punishment than he possesses, but this is to be balanced by acomprehensive appeal and review system proposed in new Rules.

(2) The Commissioner exclusively is given a new power, namely, that ofdismissal of Assistant Officers. This proposal places responsibility at theright level and—given the expansion in the Prisons and other uniformedservices—is desirable for administrative efficiency.

(3) The revised procedures make a distinction between the more senior officersof the Department, that is Superintendent and above, for whom thedisciplinary procedures of Colonial Regulations apply, and the officers belowthis rank, who are to be dealt with in accordance with the Ordinance andRules.

(4) Provision is also made for interdiction of an officer on full pay duringdepartmental investigation of his conduct or of alleged disciplinary offences;and also when criminal proceedings are contemplated against him.

In the light of the experience gained in the last two years in the Fire ServicesDepartment, for which similar procedures are in operation, I believe that the revisedprocedures and powers included in this draft bill will provide fair but effective machineryfor dealing with disciplinary cases of all those employed in the Prisons Department. Icommend them.


SECRETARY FOR SECURITY.


COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) (NO 2) BILL 1977

THE SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES moved the second reading of:—"A bill toamend the Companies Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the bill introduces two provisions, both of which the Companies LawRevision Committee recommended in its Second


Report. First, the bill gives statutory backing to a scheme the Registrar of Companies hasbeen operating administratively, whereby applicants can have the company names theypropose to adopt reserved for three months. The main object of this arrangement is to givethem some protection while they are going through the formalities leading to formalregistration as companies under the Companies Ordinance.

Second, it empowers the Registrar of Companies to order a company to change itsname if, by mistake, it has been registered in a name which contravenes any statutoryprovision regarding business names.


SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES.


SUMMARY OFFENCES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL moved the second reading of:—"A bill to amend theSummary Offences Ordinance."

He said:—Sir, the maximum penalty, under the Summary Offences Ordinance, fortouting in a public place is, at present, a fine of $1,000. There is no provision for imposingmore severe fines or imprisonment on persistent offenders for second or subsequentoffences. It is considered that such provision is desirable to assist in combating this socialnuisance.

The maximum penalty for touting at the Airport has recently been raised by anamendment to the Hong Kong Airport Regulations, from a fine of $500 to a fine of $1,000for a first offence and $2,000 or imprisonment for 6 months for a second or subsequentoffence.

This bill, if passed, will provide similar penalties in respect of touting generally.


SOLICITOR GENERAL.


AGRICULTURAL PESTICIDES BILL 1977

THE DIRECTOR OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES moved the second reading of:—"Abill to provide for the registration and control of agricultural pesticides and for mattersconnected therewith."


[THE DIRECTOR OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES] Agricultural Pesticides Bill————second reading

He said:—Sir, the bill replaces the present controls on agricultural pesticides whichare administered under the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance and the Import and ExportRegulations and which experience has shown to be inadequate.

Firstly the bill provides for a system of registration for agricultural pesticidesimported, sold or supplied for local use. Under the bill the Director of Agriculture andFisheries will maintain a register of agricultural pesticides in two parts. Part I of the registerwill list agricultural pesticides of low toxicity which have been registered unconditionally.Part II will list those which have been registered subject to conditions imposed by theDirector because of their greater toxicity. Extremely toxic pesticides, such as parathion andmevinphos, will be prohibited from import or use other than in exceptional circumstancesand with stringent safeguards, the conditions of which will be laid down in a special permitissued by the Director.

Secondly, the bill introduces a system of licensing importers and suppliers ofagricultural pesticides. Licences will not be required, however, by farmers, horticulturists orhouseholders who lend, exchange, or supply registered pesticides to each other on a non-commercial basis, or possess them for their own use. Licensees will be required to complywith conditions laid down by the Director as regards conditions for storage, transport,packaging and labelling. In particular licences will specify that pesticides may only be soldin approved containers which are properly labelled regarding contents, concentration andinstructions for safe and effective use. This condition is necessary to protect the publicagainst accidents as all too often at present pesticides are sold in second-hand containerssuch as beer and soy sauce bottles. At the same time the user will be protected againstdilution, adulteration and misleading information. Control of handling to which licenseeswill also be subject will prevent pesticides being stored or sold where there is a risk ofcontamination of foodstuffs.

There will be no material changes from present import, export or trans-shipmentarrangements although it is anticipated that the possession of a licence to import registeredpoisons will in practice facilitate import procedures.

The bill applies to pesticides in liquid or powder form but not to aerosols nor tocertain other finished products impregnated with pesticides, such as mosquito coils andinsecticidal plastic strips, which will


continue to be controlled under the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance where appropriate.

It is anticipated that this new bill will go a considerable way to filling the lacunaepresent in current legislation and to bring relevant law into a more coherent andunderstandable whole.


DIRECTOR OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES.


LEGAL PRACTITIONERS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

Resumption of debate on second reading (4th May 1977)

Question proposed.


Bill read the second time.

Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order43(1).

INDUSTRIAL AND REFORMATORY SCHOOLS (AMENDMENT)

BILL 1977

Resumption of debate on second reading (4th May 1977)

Question proposed.


Bill read the second time.

Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order43(1).

Committee stage of bills

Council went into Committee.

LEGAL PRACTITIONERS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1977

Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.


INDUSTRIAL AND REFORMATORY SCHOOLS (AMENDMENT)BILL 1977

Clauses 1 to 10 were agreed to.

Clause 11

THE DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:—Sir, I move that Clause 11 be amended as setout in the paper before honourable Members.

The proposed amendment is to ensure that under section 28 of the ordinance anincorrigible youthful offender is not transferred from a reformatory school to a detentioncentre or training centre without a report to the court from the Commissioner for Prisons onthe offender's suitability for detention in a training centre or a detention centre. It is alsoproposed that the youthful offender be remanded in the custody of the Commissioner forPrisons for the assessment of his suitability for this purpose.

Proposed amendment

Clause

11 That clause 11 be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting thefollowing—

"(b) by inserting after subsection (3) the following newsubsections—

"(3A) An order under subsection (1) for thedetention of a youthful offender in a detention centreshall take effect as if it had been made under theDetention Centres Ordinance.

(3B) A court or magistrate shall not make anorder under subsection (1) for the detention of ayouthful offender in training centre or detention centreunless the Commissioner of Prisons has informed thecourt or magistrate that in his opinion the youthfuloffender is suitable for detention in a training centre ora detention centre and that a place is available for himin a training centre or a detention centre.


(3C) On an application made undersubsection (1) a court or magistrate shall remand theyouthful offender who is the subject of the applicationin the custody of the Commissioner of Prisons for suchperiod, not exceeding 3 weeks, as the court thinksnecessary to enable the Commissioner to form anopinion as to whether or not the youthful offender issuitable for detention in a training centre or in adetention centre.".".

The amendment was agreed to.

Clause 11, as amended, was agreed to.

Clauses 12 and 13 were agreed to.

Council then resumed.

Third reading of bills

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the

Legal Practitioners (Amendment) Bill 1977

had passed through Committee without amendment and that the

Industrial and Reformatory Schools (Amendment) Bill 1977

had passed through Committee with amendment and moved the third reading of each of thebills.

Question put on each bill and agreed to.

Bills read the third time and passed.

Valedictory to Mr Price

HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT:—Honourable Members, Mr PRICE will shortly beleaving us on retirement and this is the last sitting of this Council he will appear. He leavesafter 3 years membership of this Council and 12 years of service with the LabourDepartment. His contribution towards advancing of labour legislation and in improving thewelfare of the labour force has been so great that a short speech


[HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT] Valedictory to Mr Price

cannot possibly comprise an adequate tribute. Whether the field is industrial training,industrial safety, conditions of employment or labour relations Mr PRICE has made adecisive personal contribution, and will leave Hong Kong a better place than he found it.These wideranging and carfully thought-out reforms that he has introduced could not havebeen achieved without his expert knowledge, quiet determination and complete dedication.

We wish him and his wife a very happy retirement.

DR CHUNG:—Sir, my Unofficial Colleagues and I would like to associate ourselveswith Your Excellency's remarks on the valuable contributions given by Mr PRICE to thiscommunity for the past 12 years.

When he came to Hong Kong from Malaysia in 1965, he brought with him a wealthof knowledge and experience in the specialist field of workmen's welfare and benefits. Hisexpertise in this field was particularly useful to us in Hong Kong during the past ten yearswhen much emphasis has been put in the advancement of our labour legislation.

During these many years he has helped to formulate and implement what I think mayreasonably be described as "fair employment practices". If some of these legislation maynot have been universally well received outside this Council, this is understandable, aslabour legislation by its nature is controversial.

Mr PRICE has also been instrumental in placing before this Council a great volume ofsubsidiary legislation, with the laudable aim of ensuring that the conditions of employmentand working environment of our work force, particularly the industrial workers, are madeboth adequate and reasonably safe. In addition to the results of his efforts which have comebefore this Council, all of us are aware that his department has done much to ensure thatmatters relating to industrial relations, workmen's compensation and other types of labourbenefits are expeditiously resolved.

My Unofficial Colleagues and I wish to pay a tribute to Mr PRICE for his veryintensive personal efforts in bringing about all these significant improvements in conditionsof employment for the almost two million wage and salary earners of this community. Wealso wish him and Mrs PRICE many many more years of health and happiness.


Adjournment and next sitting

HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT:—In accordance with Standing Orders I nowadjourn the Council until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday the 1st of June.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-five minutes to four o'clock.

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Documents

OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS - LegCo · programme in the Government's promotion of recreation and sport and as part of the youth activities run in Community and Youth Centres. "Tai