Not Nor the home the workplace 1 Copyright © Oct. 2, 2007; Revised February 3, 2012. Version 1.25 All Rights Reserved. by Mike Bacon Permission to distribute

WOMEN’S ROLES IN THE

CONGREGATION

Not Nor the home the workplace

1

Copyright © Oct. 2, 2007; Revised February 3, 2012. Version 1.25 All Rights Reserved. by Mike Bacon

Permission to distribute this presentation is granted with the provision that the entire document be freely transmitted in its entirety without any deletions or additions.

Should Women Keep Silent?An Advanced Discipleship Session

I. Introduction

Ego. Fickle. Fear. Fences.

We gravitate to the authority when it suits us.

And disregard or trash it when it does not.

It’s about relationships.

Not “religion”.

It’s about a changed heart—”Fruit of the Spirit”

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I. Introduction

POINTS TO CONSIDER

I do not have all the answers.

I will change based upon new information.

Ask yourself..what guides your relationships:

Religion, Fences, or the Fruits of the Spirit?

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I. Introduction

Women’s Roles in the Church are one of several major issues in Christianity today.

WHY?

What are the other issues?

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I. Introduction

Purpose for Today’s Session

Explore and Answer Questions, such as: What roles do women have in the church? Traditional roles?

i.e. Should women remain “silent”?

Should women speak out ?

Should women pray out loud? Should women read scripture in the church? Should women teach men in church?

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I. Introduction

Roadmap for Today’s Journey

I. Introduction

II. Historic Backdrop

III. Women in the Bible

IV. Paul’s Controversial Writings

V. Review and Conclusions

Addendum: Spiritual Gifts

Appendix & Bibliography

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Judaism: Talmud Remember the movie “Yentel” with Barbara Streisand?

“It is a shame for a women to let her voice be heard among men.”

“It is better that the words of the law be burned…than they should be given to a women.” (y. Sotah 3:4)

“If a man gives his daughter a knowledge of the law, it is as though he taught her (sin) lechery) .” (ibid)

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Judaism: Talmud--Today for Orthodox Jews“Female singing voice

Men are not supposed to hear women sing, a prohibition called kol isha (Babylonian Talmud Tractate Berachot 24a). This is derived from Song of Solomon 2:14: "Let me hear your voice, for your voice is sweet and your face is beautiful." The Talmud classifies this as ervah (literally "nakedness"), and it is generally understood that this prohibition applies at all times, similarly to all prohibitions classified as ervah (Rosh Berachot 3:37, Shulkhan Arukh Even ha-Ezer 21:2)[1]”

-Tznius Basics www.davening.net

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II. Historic Backdrop “Historically, Jewish schooling began with the heder for

Jewish male children aged three or four. (The heder, a word meaning ‘room' in Hebrew, was the name of the traditional elementary school as it existed from Talmudic times in the earliest centuries of the Common Era until the formation of the first modern nation-states at which time many Jews strove to modify or abolish the heder.) The heder was previously for males only. According to the Talmud and the Halacha, females do not need education and are explicitly forbidden from some forms of study. Until modern times, most Jewish women received no formal education and were mostly illiterate.” ---Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish Fundamentalism, p24,

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II. Historic Backdrop “Beatings, sexual brutality, cruelty, deprival of rights,

use of a woman as merely a sexual object; you can find all of this there [in the Talmud] … For two thousand years women had a well-defined place in the Jewish religion [Orthodox Judaism]; this place is different from what the rabbinical establishment describes; according to the Halacha, the place of women is in the garbage heap together with cattle and slaves. According to the Jewish religion [Orthodox Judaism] a man buys for himself a slave woman for her entire life simply by providing food and dress and granting to his wife the sexual act.” ---Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish Fundamentalism, p40 quoting Israeli journalist Kadid Leper article of April 18, 1997--- “Woman is a sack full of excrement.”

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Clark’s Commentary:

“The Jews would not suffer a woman to read in the synagogue, though a servant or even a child, had this permission”.

Babylonian Talmud: “All are qualified to be among the seven [who read publicly

from the Torah in the synagogue on the Sabbath], even a minor or a woman; however, the sages ruled that a woman should not read from the Torah out of respect for the congregation.” - Megillah 23a; Tosefta, Megillah 3:11

Greeks & Romans & other pagans did not allow their women to learn publicly.

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Jewish “EDAH” – The “Ten” Edah – Jewish “halachah” (the Walk) requires an Edah, to

have a congregation - a minimum of ten persons must be present.

Boaz gathered ten elders of Bethlehem to witness the legal transaction that gave him possession of the land that belonged to Naomi, and Ruth the Moabitess as his wife.

By the 1st century C.E. every public or official religious gathering required 10 persons. Public or congregational prayer could not be conducted without 10.

Mishnah ruling (See Appendix) 12


Jewish “EDAH” – The “Ten” 10 males not found in ancient sources until at least 500

C.E. Before 500 C.E. women could be counted as part of

the "ten.” Even in 12th century C.E., Jewish scholars such as

Rabbenu Tam acknowledged that women may be included as part of the congregational quorum.

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Jewish Synagogue 1st Century – no women’s section. 4th Century Sardis – no women’ section in a 3,000

person synagogue. 7th Century – women’s section formed due to influence

of Islam.

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Temple in Jerusalem Women’s section *not* reserved for women Women were allowed in both the Court of Priests and the

Israelite Court and everywhere that men were generally allowed. (Ex 38:8 & I Sam 2:22 & Mishnah – See below)

“However, like men, women offered their sacrifices at the altar in the Priests' Court, passing through the Israelites' Court in order to do so (Tosefta, Arachin 2:1). If, for instance, a woman offered a wave offering such as first fruits, she approached the altar, waved the offering, and placed it beside the altar”

-- (Mishnah, Bikkurim 1:5; 3:6)” – Shmuel, Safari 15


Temple in Jerusalem The outer court of the temple was called the Women's Court.

-- Because normally women did not go beyond it into the more interior courts of the temple.[

Likewise, the Israelites' Court was so named because normally non-priestly men did not go beyond it into the Priests' Court. 1

9]

Women were segregated in the temple only during the Water Drawing Ceremony held during the Feast of Tabernacles, when dancing went on all night. At this celebration, men watched from the Women's Court and women watched from specially erected galleries surrounding the Women's Court.

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http://us.f344.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=5945_9527328_507007_1736_679_0_59119_1264_3552472541&NEXT=1&inc=&num=&Idx=6&Search=&YY=14105&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=up&sort=sender&pos=0&view=a&head=b



Temple in Jerusalem

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Special Note

The plans of the Temple in Jerusalem were taken from 2 internet web sites and used during the break-out session presentation. I believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of the copyrighted material as provided for in Section 107 of the US Copyright Law. Permission from the copyright owner must be obtained for purposes which go beyond this use.

I have chosen not to do so; therefore, it cannot be included in this PDF version

Temple in Jerusalem

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III. WOMEN IN THE BIBLEIIIA. Women in the Old Testament

Faith, Prophetesses, and Proclaimers Deborah prophetess, judge Judges 4: + Hannah woman of faith I Sam. 1:17 Huldah prophetess II Kings 22:13+ Miriam prophesied Ex. 15:20 For I brought thee up from the land of Egypt, And from the house of

servants I have ransomed thee, And I send before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam. –Micah 6:4

Women proclaimed/published Psalm 68:11 Woman prophesied Isa. 8:2-4

/ Isaiah’s wife?

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Only 2 People held the office of Prophet & Judge Samuel…and Deborah: prophetess, judge, made war Judges 4: +

Deborah responded to YHVH’s calling. The Father was Ruler / King—not men or women.

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Only 2 People held the office of Prophet & Judge Samuel…and Deborah: prophetess, judge, made war Judges 4: +

Deborah responded to YHVH’s calling. The Father was Ruler / King—not men or women.

Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule (not God) over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

To whom did Eve and the men of Deborah’s time respond to if it was not God?

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Men are initiators. Women are responders.

--Brad Scott: …male and female created He them.

(A highly recommended 4-CD teaching).

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Men are initiators.

Adam did not intervene when the Serpent approached Eve.

Adam sinned how? Job 31:33 “If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:”

Eve responded to the Serpent’s overtures—not Adam’s.

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Men are initiators. Why did Barak not go without Deborah?

Judges 4:8 And Barak said to her, If you will go with me, then I will go: but if you will not go with me, then I will not.

Where were the men to initiate Godly judgment?

Women are responders. Deborah responded to YHVH.

She encouraged Barak to take the lead.

She chose not to lead in battle…only accompanied Barak.

Judges 4:9 And she said, I will surely go with you: notwithstanding the journey that you take shall not be for your honor; for YHVH shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.24

IIIA. Women in the Old Testament

5 Daughters of Zelophehad Num. 29:1-7

They spoke up before Moses for their property

rights. And God / YHVH heard them!

DID HULDAH KEEP SILENT? Huldah prophetess II Kings 22:13+

Contemporary of Jeremiah. Where was he?

Why did Hilkiah, a priest, come before Huldah? 22:14

And she said to them, So says YHVH the God of Israel,

Tell the man that sent you to me. II Kings 22:15

Huldah states 3 times “Thus says YHVH the God of Israel” & once “says YHVH”. II Kings 22:15,16,18,19 25


Wise woman defense lawyer 2 Sam 20:12-22

spoke & saved lives

15 And they went in and lay siege against him in Abel-beth-maachah, …16 And a wise woman called out of the city, Hear! Hear! Please say to Joab, Come near here and I will speak to you. 18 And she spoke, saying...19 I am of the peaceful, faithful ones of Israel. You are seeking to destroy a city, and a mother in Israel. Why will you swallow up the inheritance of YHVH?

20 And Joab answered and said, Far be it! Far be it from me that I should swallow up or destroy

21…And the woman said to Joab, Behold, his head will be thrown over the wall to you. 22 And the woman came to all the people in her wisdom. (I Cor 12:8) And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri and threw it to Joab…And Joab went back to Jerusalem to the king.

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“Wise woman” was a faithful doer and knew God’s Word…

She did not keep silent!

If she had—what would have happened?

Deut 20:10 When you come near a city to fight against it, then call to it for peace.

11 And it shall be, if it answers peace to you, and shall open to you, then it shall be that all the people found in it shall be forced laborers for you, and shall serve you.

12 And if it shall not make peace with you, and shall make war

with you, then you shall lay siege against it.

Wise woman was quite the “DEFENSE ATTORNEY”!

Where were the men—the warriors—to speak up???27


Some Questions:

1. Can a woman be a priest in the Torah? (no)

2. Is a prophet the same office as a priest? (no)

3. Is there any prohibition against women prophets

or judges in the Torah? (no)

4. Is there any prohibition against women in

leadership (i.e. prophets) or teaching? (no)

5. Does the Torah prohibit women from speaking

up in the Congregation of Israel? (no)

6. Were women prohibited from the Temple? (no)

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IIIA. Women in Old Testament

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Deut 4:2 & 12:32 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. 29

IIIB. Women in the New Testament

Paul in Red Anna prophetess Luke 2:36

Proclaimed Christ as the Messiah Chloe home church? I Cor. 1:11 Euodia & Syntyche laborers with Paul Phil 4:2-3 Joanna & Susanna patrons Luke 8:3 Junia apostle?! Rom. 16:7 Lydia home church? Acts 16:13-14, 39-40 Mary mother of Jesus / faith, truth, integrity

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Paul in Red Phillips 4 daughters prophesied Acts 21:7-9 Phoebe a “minister” Rom 16:1

minister is word Paul uses for himself in Col 1:23 Priscilla Paul’s helpers Rom 16: 3-5 Trphanena, Trphosa, Persis

“laborers in the Lord” Rom 16:6 Stephanas a “minister” I Cor 16:15-16 Many women ministered to Christ Mark 15:40+ Handmaidens prophesy Acts 2:18

“On my handmaidens in those days…they shall prophesy…”

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Handmaidens prophesy Acts 2:18

“On my handmaidens in those days…they shall prophesy…”

Deborah’s example as a prophetess:

Did she lead by her speaking skills and intellect or Godly inspiration?

If it were only Deborah’s speaking skills and intellect—would that not qualify other women for that role?

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What does Prophesy mean?

Is it inspired preaching, foretelling the future? “….In preaching, the intellect, training. skill, background

and education are involved and inspired by the Holy Spirit. The sermon may be written down ahead of time or given on the spot, but it comes from the inspired intellect.

“Prophecy….means that the person is bringing the words the Lord [YWVH) gives directly {words of warning, words of instruction, words of encouragement, or words of prediction}; it is from the Spirit, not the intellect.”

- Wayne A. Grudem

The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament. p121


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Logical Conclusions We May Reach Women were Apostles(?), Counselors (Wise) ,

Judges, Helpers (assistants), Home Owners, Leaders, Patrons (financial supporters), Prophetesses and…Ministers! (Gr. “diakonos”)

They all spoke in various situations. They did not keep silence. There was no shame to them speaking. God and Jesus did *not* criticize, correct, or label

sinful any of these women.

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Let’s explore some of Paul’s other notable statements about women

speaking.

35


What does Paul say?

Paul does not say men only….

“for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;…7 But to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for good and profit (AMP)…11 and all these work the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally as he intends.” 1Cor 12:8 (ASU).

36


What does Paul say?


1 Cor 11:4-5 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

5 But every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Consider: One does not prophesy in private.

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What does Paul say?


Both men and women may pray in public. 1 Timothy 2:8 “I desire therefore that the men pray in

every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9 “In like manner, (i.e. women may pray) that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment;”

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What does Paul say?


Both men and women may pray in public. 1 Timothy 2:8 “I desire therefore that the men pray in

every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9 “In like manner, (i.e. women may pray) that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment;”

Do we assume that all men are wrathful and disputing? No Should we conclude that women should not pray? No

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What does Paul say?

There are NO masculine pronouns by Paul for the elder, or deacon or overseer roles that would limit these roles to males. – Payne, Phillip B. 2009. Man and Woman, One in Christ: An

Exegetical and Theological Study of Paul's Letters.

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What does Paul say?

Women may teach women. Titus 2:3-4 “The aged women likewise …teachers of good

things; 4 that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

BUT….Where Do you See Women teaching Women

in today’s Church’s?

In Bible Studies at Church? No In Bible Studies at Home? No In Church Classes at Church or in the Home? No

Why Not?

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Women may teach women.

Joyce Meyer’s Story Holding Home Bible Studies---people began to drift

away when her husband conducted the study. Her audience seen on TV today…primarily women…

with a number of men seen. Do older women in your fellowship / congregation teach

women apart from men? Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love

their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

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What does Paul say?

Let’s go back for a refresher…

Paul in Red Junia apostle?! Rom. 16:7 Lydia home church? Acts 16:13-14, 39-40 Phoebe a “minister” Rom 16:1

(Same word Paul uses for himself in Col 1:23) Priscilla Paul’s helpers Rom 16: 3-5 Stephanas a “minister” I Cor 16:15-16

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Logical Conclusions We May Reach (thus far) Women were Apostles?(!), Counselors (Wise) ,

Judges, Helpers (assistants), Home Owners, Leaders, Patrons (financial supporters), Prophetesses and…Ministers (Gr. “diakonos”)

They all spoke in various situations, including prophesying.

They did not keep silence. There was no shame to them speaking. God and Jesus did *not* criticize, correct, or label

sinful any of these women.44


Logical Conclusions We May Reach (thus far) Paul allows women to speak, accounts them as

ministers (servants)

…and he further states…

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” -- Gal 3:28

I.E. Paul writes….of Equal Opportunity

ALL – Men AND Women MAY SPEAK.

45


12 Points of Paul’s controversial writings about women in:

I Corinthians 14:34-35

I Timothy 2:11-12

Ephesians 5:21

I Cor 11:3

46


Ask 5 W’s: Who, What, Why, When, Where

Who is he writing to?

Gentiles What are the questions he is addressing?

We don’t know! We only have his response. What is the context (historic, cultural, and

scriptural) of his writings?

Many do not know—but we will explore this! Why is Paul writing?

Communicate, correct, encourage, inspire.

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Ask 5 W’s: Who, What, Why, When, Where

Why is he writing – to present new “doctrine” apart from the Torah?

No. When is he writing?

At the time of pagan influences Where are locations he is writing to?

Corinthians in Greece and

Timothy at Ephesus in Asia Minor

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Most people begin with Paul and not the other Apostles

who are easier to understand.

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.”– 2 Peter 3:16

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REVIEW

Adding to the word – Are we allowed? Is Paul?

Isa 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

Deut 4:2 & 2:32 “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”

Pro 30:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor. 14:34-35

1Cor 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law.”

1 Cor 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor. 14:34-35 Context

1. Context: Look at what Problems Paul

addresses: 1:12 - gaining followers after men 2:11 - spiritual things discerned by spiritual

mind 3:4 - following men indicates carnality 4:21 - Paul has to return with a rod or in love 5:1 - fornication 6:1 - inability to resolve issues among

themselves 7:2, 13 - intimacy and marriage issues

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor. 14:34-35 Context

9:1 - Paul established his authority 10:13 - temptation 11:14 - hair, covering / eating etiquette 12:1 - spiritual gifts 13:1 - you need love! 14:40 - decently and in order, women keep

silence! 15:12 - heresy 16:2 - collections for the needy

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35Silence?

2. Women keep silence! 1 Cor 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the

churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law.”

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35Silence

What is the definition of “Silence” & “speak”? I Cor 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the

churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak…35 a shame for women to speak in the church.

Silence = No speaking? Sing? No. (Recall Talmud Tractate Berachot 24a). Praise. No? Fellowship Conversation? No?

If “no”---do we already have a difference of opinion by taking the literal definitions?

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35What Law?

2. Women keep silence! But to what law? The generic Greek Word Law (Nomos) may mean

any law. Paul uses the words “IT IS WRITTEN” to refer

specifically to the Torah.

I Cor 3:19, 4:6. 9:8-0, 10:7, 14:21, 15:45 and others But NOT in 14:34 Paul’s statement is NOT backed up by any

Scripture reference in the Torah. If so…where is it?

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Clark’s Commentary: “This was a Jewish ordinance; (Note: a Jewish ordinance is not Scripture) women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that “a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff.”

Babylonian TALMUD? Out of respect to the congregation, a woman should not read the law publicly (b.Meg 23 as noted previously).

Corinthian law, tradition, regulation, etc?

– we just don’t know. Nomos may also refer to the ORAL Law – Talmud –

in any of Paul’s writings. 57


“Gordon Fee [author, The First Epistle to the Corinthians, 1987], an expert in patristic literature and a highly respected text-critical scholar, suggests that the glossator of these verses was a Jewish Christian who didn’t know the difference between the law of Moses and some dictum of R. Akiba’s disciples in the second century, known to be extremely disparaging towards women in general”. – Todd Derstine.

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35Where in the Torah / Law?

Compare arguments:

“Christians” do not refer to the OT / Torah when

quoting Paul about the NT “Law”.

“Messianics” / “COGs” / Other Torah keepers do

not refer to the Torah when referring to

women keeping silence.

What does this tell you about the ignorance of many?

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35 Where in the Torah / Law?

3. NOT Found in the Torah. Some say the law is Gen 3:16

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shall bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35 Where in the Torah / Law?

3. NOT Found in the Torah. Some say the law is Gen 3:16

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shall bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”

But Genesis 3:16 is not a law.

It is a consequence–a result of sin–a curse.

Many do not know what a law is—even today!

And where does Gen. 3:16 state “keep silence”?

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35 “Desire”

3. Definition of Desire. Hebrew word Desire (H6889) used only 3 times.

What does desire mean?

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3. Definition of Desire. Hebrew word Desire (H6889) used only 3 times.

What does desire mean?

Hebrew verbal root of desire means:

-> “To move aggressively towards a goal, as moving water rushing toward the ocean”. – Brad Scott

-> “Desire, craving, longing, in the original sense of stretching out after – abundance, overflowing.

– Zodhiates Complete Word Study Concordance

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Hebrew word Desire (H6889) used only 3 times.

1. Gen. 3:16 “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly

multiply your sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow you

shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be

to your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

2. Gen 4:6-7 “And the LORD said unto Cain, Why are you wroth? and why is you countenance fallen? 7 “If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And unto you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.”

3. Song. 7:10 “I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.”

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35

4. Paul Contradicts Himself if strict / literal definition of silence applies to women.

1. Paul’s writing of women speaking up & prophesying,

(Scriptural New Testament examples as given

above).

2. Paul’s mention of women’s functions /

responsibilities. (Examples as given above).

How do we explain these apparent contradictions when women are told to keep silent?

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REVIEW: Paul cannot add to the Torah.

Deut 4:2 & 2:32 “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the YHWH your God which I command you.”

Pro 30:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”

The command for women to keep silent is not found in the “Torah” / the Law / the Old Testament.

66


5. Context of verses 34 and 35. Paul is addressing prophets in 26-33 and 36-40. Verses 34-35 breaks the flows of his letter when he

mentions women keeping silent.

I Cor 14:34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law.”

1 Cor 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

67


6. Scribal “errors” appear to be an answer to resolve some apparent contradictions:

I Cor 14:34-35 inserted at the end of verse 40.

A margin note is inserted & later moved.

► Codex Vaticanus (300-400 A.D) indicates verses

interpolated into the text. (codex=papyrus book)

► Codex Fuldensis (546 A.D.) placed verses 34-40 in

the margin.

Apostle John aware of future possible text alterations: Rev 22:18-10…If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add

unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy….

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Other examples of scribal “errors” include: Rom 16:3 Priscilla’s name reversed with husband. Rom 16:7 Relatives is substituted for apostles.

“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles…”

Acts 17:4 “prominent women” changed to men. I John 5:7-8 “the Father, the Son, and the Holy

Spirit” later inserted.

Do we see men’s bias in these translations?69


7-1. Greek Translation of woman (can create misunderstandings) Greek: one word for wife - gune (goo-nay). translated

either wife or woman.

Two meanings! (same as aner: man or husband)

1. Translated wives: Matt 19:8, Eph 5:25, I Pet 3:1.

2. Translated woman: I Cor 11 (all verses).

Need to rely on context to determine meaning: 1Tim 3:2 “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband

of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;”

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7-2 Is their an element of truth in verse 35 for a “wife” As long as the wife looks to someone other than her

husband for spiritual guidance, would he be relieved of the weight of his responsibility as the leader of the home? Is that why Paul says "let them ask their own husbands at home.“?

Could the husband's authority / leadership be publicly questioned if he does not know the answer, or did not ask the question himself?

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Paul’s Writings – I Tim 2:11-12

More Silence in Letter to Timothy 1 Tim 2:11 “Let the woman learn in silence with all

subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

An “…analysis of grammatical constructions interpreting 1 Tim 2.12….conveys, ‘I am not permitting a woman to teach and [in combination with this] to assume authority over a man’.

– Phillip Payne. 2008 "1 Tim 2.12 and the Use of ουδε to…”

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Paul’s Writings – I Cor 14:34-35and I Tim 2:11

Where / Who is Paul Writing to?

8. We need to know and understand the

Cultural / Etiquette / Sociological Context of the times.

We do not have the questions and issues Paul was answering – only his responses – otherwise Paul is contradicting himself in Scripture!

Were women/wives pestering their husbands? Were they being disruptive (for unstated reasons) at

church services? Were there different types of church services?

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Paul’s Writings – I Tim 2:11-12CULTURAL CONTEXT EXAMPLE 1

1. Is it Biblically permissible for a man to wear women’s clothing?

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What would you tell the Scottish bagpipe players who wear “kilts”?

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What would you tell the Scottish bagpipe players who wear “kilts”?

(hey…they look and walk like skirts! )

Can we see it depends on context--

Cultural and Historic?

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2. Is it *also* mandatory to kiss each other today?

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2. Is it *also* mandatory to kiss each other today? All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with a

holy kiss. –1 Cor 16:20 Greet one another with a holy kiss. –2 Cor 13:12 Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss. –1 Thess 5:26 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. –1 Pet 5:14

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2. Is it *also* mandatory to kiss each other today? All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with a

holy kiss. –1 Cor 16:20 Greet one another with a holy kiss. –2 Cor 13:12 Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss. –1 Thess 5:26 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. –1 Pet 5:14

Are Christians and Messianics following these “commands“ by both Paul and Peter?

Is kissing each other required in the Torah? (no)

Can we agree it can depend on context--

Cultural and Historic?79

Paul’s Writings – I Tim 2:11-12WHERE?: HISTORIC CONTEXT

9. Context: EPHESUS - Historic and Cultural 1 Tim 1:3 “As I besought thee (Timothy) to abide still at

Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou might charge some that they teach no other doctrine,”

1 Tim 1:4 “Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.”

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9. Context: EPHESUS - Historic and Cultural

What and Where was Ephesus?

> A large and noted City in Asia Minor (Turkey today)

> Ephesus: 50 A.D. Population: 250,000

100 A.D. 400,000 – 500,000

Noted for:

> Library - One of ancient world’s largest .

> Temple of Artemis / Diana – The Goddess of Fertility:

Goddess of the Protector of Women at childbirth

> Banking Center – Major

> One of the most noted ancient wonders of the world.

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Temple of Artemis also called the Temple of Diana

Special Note

The photo of the Temple of Diana was taken from an internet web site and used during the break-out session presentation. I believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of the copyrighted material as provided for in Section 107 of the US Copyright Law. Permission from the copyright owner must be obtained for purposes which go beyond this use.

I have chosen not to do so; therefore, it cannot be included on PDF version.

Visit this web site for another artist’s depiction of the temple: http://www.crystalinks.com/templeofartemis.html

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What was the Temple of Artemis / Diana?

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► One of 7 Wonders of the World

► 3 times the size of the Parthenon

► 127- 60 foot high columns

► 260’ wide x 430’ long

► Destroyed 356 B.C. Rebuilt 3 times

► Important banking center


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"I have seen the walls and Hanging Gardens of ancient Babylon, the statue of Olympian Zeus, the Colossus of Rhodes, the mighty work of the high Pyramids and the tomb of Mausolus. But when I saw the temple at Ephesus rising to the clouds, all these other wonders were put in the shade.” - Philon of Byzantium http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/ephesus.htm



Acts 19:26 “… that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: 27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at naught; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worships. 28 And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.”

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Act 19:34 “But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. 35 And when the town clerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knows not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshiper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter?”

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Paul’s Writings – I Tim 2:11-12Ephesus: What is Spiritual Context?

10. Four Ephesian Gnostic Beliefs / Doctrines

“Gnosticism (from Greek “gnosis” = knowledge) refers to a diverse, syncretistic religious movement consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect spirit, the demiurge, who is frequently identified with the Abrahamic God”. –Wikepedia

wow!

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10. Four (4) Ephesian Gnostic Beliefs / Doctrines

1. Eve created before Adam and received special

knowledge.

2. Artemis means “SAFE” - provided help to women

to get safely through childbirth.

3. Female “Mediators” (called Authenia from the

Greek word Authenteo) passed special

knowledge to men during sexual rites.

4. Adhere to genealogies back to Creation.

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10. Four Ephesian Gnostic Beliefs / Doctrines

Hmmmm…Interesting stuff…

but what does this have to do with Timothy?

Now….”the REST of the story.”(Paul Harvey)

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10-1. Four Ephesian Gnostic Beliefs

#1. Eve was created before Adam and received

special knowledge.

1 Tim 2:11 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”


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1 Tim 2:13 “For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

“Women will come safely through childbirth…” – Phillips Bible.


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Ask yourself…

What does Paul mean when he says child bearing

is a condition of women being saved!?

Does this make any sense?

Is that what Christians really believe?

Where is the hope of those that believe in Jesus /

Yeshua…but are childless?


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#2. Artemis means “SAFE” – goddess provided

help to women to get safely through

childbirth. Paul is addressing paganism!

1 Tim 2:13 “For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

“Women will come safely through childbirth…” – Phillips Bible.


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#3. Female “Mediators” (called Authenia from

the Greek word Authenteo) passed this

special knowledge on to men during sexual

rites.

1 Tim 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

Timothy already knew who the one mediator was

– didn’t he?!

So why…

and for whose benefit was the letter written?


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#4. Adhere to genealogies back to Creation.

1Tim 1:3 “As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou might charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.”

DO WE NOW UNDERSTAND THE HISTORIC AND

CULTURAL CONTEXT?

Paul’s Writings – Eph 5:21

11. Submitting Yourselves (Mistranslation) Eph 5:21 “Submitting yourselves one to another in the

fear of God.”

Correct Translation should read:

Submitting yourselves in the fear of God, or

Submitting one to another in the fear of God

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Paul’s Writings – Eph 5:21

11. Submitting Yourselves (Mistranslation) Eph 5:21 “Submitting yourselves one to another in the

fear of God.”

Correct Translation should read:

Submitting yourselves in the fear of God, or

Submitting one to another in the fear of God

Key points

> It is mutual submission – “as unto the Lord”.

> Submission is NOT subordination or subservience, or inferiority or weakness, or less ability, or less worth.

> Neither sex is “superior” to the other.98

Paul’s Writings – I Cor 11:3

12. Headship represents the giver (source) of life – not rulership, or service to another – not authority.

> I Corinthians 11:3

“But I would have you know, that the head (meaning source) of every man is Christ; and the head (meaning source) of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”

“The majority view in recent scholarship has shifted to understand head in this passage to mean “source” rather than “authority”, including many who argue that Paul believed men should have authority over women in social relationships.” – Phillip B. Payne, Priscilla Papers

99

V. CONCLUSIONS

1. Women may teach women. (Generally non-issue).

2. Women may be asked to pray.

3. Women do not usurp men when:

A. Male pastor / Church Board asks a woman to

teach, and she responds. (No authority given)

Trained / educated / gifted in a particular field where

no men have the similar gift / knowledge.

(e.g. Hebrew, counseling, special research / study).

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V. CONCLUSIONS

3. Women do not usurp men when:

B. Men do not object being taught by women. C. Women are not continually teaching.

4. Women and men are not to confuse

congregational leadership with home leadership and the workplace. (Different circumstances).

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V. CONCLUSIONS

5. Recognize it is a controversial issue.

If women teaching is an issue which would

divide a congregation….

– then women should not teach

(in my opinion).

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V. CONCLUSIONS

5. Recognize it is a controversial issue.

If women teaching is an issue which would

divide a congregation….

– then women should not teach

(in my opinion).

Is power & self-will typically involved in divisions?

Bear the Holy Spirit’s 12 fruits: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering

(i.e. patience in pain), gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

–Gal. 5:22-23

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V. CONCLUSIONS

6. Should women pastor? YOU decide.

How did Deborah demonstrate leadership?

…By her intellect or Godly inspiration?

…By refusing to let Barak lead?

Judges and Prophets were not “Kings” (i.e. rulers).

Were women in the Torah designated as priests?

Did Christ call women as any of the first 12?

Does Christ hold the man as the lead servant

/ source of a family?

…Is a pastor a similar leader?

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V. CONCLUSIONS

6. Should women pastor? YOU decide.

Why would a woman wish to “pastor”?

…there are already 30,000 Christian denominations!

…Consider…why would a women wish to repeat

what men are already doing?

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V. CONCLUSIONS

7. The Gifts of the Spirit are for men as well as women (see addendum).

Pursue the Fruits and then the Gifts of the Spirit to demonstrate God’s grace (favor) and choice of you as a leader in His walk.—not just your desire, intellect, and will.

Gal 5 & I Cor 12

106

.

Why do many wish to be teachers?

“My brothers do not be many teachers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment”.

James 3:1

“Are all apostles? All prophets? All teachers? All workers of power? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak languages? Do all interpret?”

1 Cor 12:29-30

Women…Run your race…

but why run to compete directly with men?

ADDENDUM: Spiritual Gifts

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. ADDENDUM: Spiritual Gifts

108

Deborah’s Example

1. YHVH called her and gave her the Gift of Prophecy.

2. She did not “compete” with men.

3. She encouraged men to fulfill their roles.

Where are the Gift’s today for the

Torah Pursuant and believers in Yeshua, today?

Women: Pursue the gifts and be set apart by YHVH.

.

Are there other gifts and responsibilities?“Are all apostles? All prophets? All teachers? All workers

of power? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak languages? Do all interpret?”

1 Cor 12:29-30


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.

Paul writes….

But earnestly desire the higher gifts1 Cor 12:31

Follow after love; yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts…I Cor 14:1

What other Roles may Women possibly have?

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diverse

kinds of tongues (real languages) 1 Cor 12:28 (Gifts Chapter)


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111

The Gifts are for Today!See I Cor 12 and may include….

Cleanse the Lepers

Heal the Sick

Raise the Dead(Matt 10:8)

Prophesy…(why not GOOD Things?)(Luke 9:54-56 and Acts 2:17)

and

(the Prophet Daniel in Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews X.xi.7)

and

(above women)


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“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and

greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father.”

John 14:12 Mark 11:23-26 Mark 16:17-18

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom

he has sent.” John 6:29


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“but the people that do know (not ‘know about’)

their God shall be strong, and do.”Dan 11:32

Let’s prepare to do.

WOMEN’S ROLES IN THE

CONGREGATION

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Should Women Keep Silent?An Advanced Discipleship Session

Q & A

AppendixJosephus: Antiquities of the Jews

X.xi.7

“…for he (Daniel) did not only prophesy of future events, as did the other prophets, but he also determined the time of their accomplishment. And while prophets used to foretell misfortunes, and on that account were disagreeable both to the kings and to the multitude, Daniel was to them a prophet of good things, and this to such a degree, that by the agreeable nature of his predictions, he procured the goodwill of all men; and by the accomplishment of them, he procured the belief of their truth, and the opinion of [a sort of] divinity for himself, among the multitude.”

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AppendixWomen in the Old Testament

Counseled / Instructed Husbands Abigail acted wisely – initiated I Sam 25:3+ Esther courageous leadership Esth 4:16

"I will go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: (Heb =dath) and if I perish, I perish."

Sarah counseled Gen 3:16 Manoah’s wife / Samson’s mother Jud 13:2+

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AppendixThe Ten

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Mishnah states the ruling: If there are less that ten present, the congregation may not

recite the Shema with its benedictions, nor may one go before the ark [to lead the prescribed congregational prayers], nor may priests lift up their hands [in pronouncing the priestly blessing],[3] nor may one read the portion of the Torah or the Prophets, nor may one observe the stations [when burying the dead][4] or say the mourners' benediction or the mourners' consolation, or the benediction over newlyweds, nor may one mention the name of God in the invitation to recite the blessing after the meal. Also [the redemption value of dedicated] immovable property [is assessed] by nine and a priest, and, similarly, [the valuation vow [5] of] a person.

–Mishnah (Megillah 4:3)

BibliographyWomen’s Roles in the Church by Mike Bacon, first presented at a break-out session at the

Feast of Tabernacles at Lake Murray State Park, Oklahoma, Oct 2, 2007. Version 1.0.

The core of this presentation was derived from a paper by Jim Rector, minister, entitled “Let

Your Women Keep Silence!” which may be found on his web site at

www.thehigherlife.com/cs/cs_pub_display.asp?File=women_silence.htm

This presentation is further augmented by the below additional resources and references:

Unless otherwise noted – all references are from internet sites (which are subject to

change) . Just cut and paste the below words and look up the web site using “Google”! Baugh, S.M., Ph.D. The Apostle Among the Amazons: A Review Article. Carson, D.. A., Ph.D. "Silent in the Churches": On the Role of Women in 1 Corinthians

14:33b-36 Choung, James. Can Women Teach? An Exegesis of 1 Tim 2:11-15 and 1 Corinthians 14:33-

40. Currier, John H. Pastor, Women in Leadership. Derstine, Todd. 2010. I Cor 14:34-35. Were These Verses Part of Paul’s Original Letter to the

Corinthians? www.americaspropheticdestiny.com Erhman, Bart. 2006. Misquoting Jesus. 234 pages. Fulle, Daniel P. Paul and Women's Ordination. Hughs, R. Kent Hughes and Bryan Chapell . Living Out God’s Order: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 found

on the internet from the book the Preaching the Word series, From 1&2 Timothy and Titus: To Guard the Deposit .

118

Bibliography Huie, Brian. 2005, Mar 1. The Role of Women. Kaiser, Walter C. Kaiser, Jr. Correcting Caricatures: The Biblical Teaching on Women. Kroeger, Richard Clark and Catherine Clark Kroeger. I Suffer Not A Woman: Rethinking 1 Timothy

2:11-15 in Light of Ancient Evidence by Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992. 253 pp. Kurinsky, Samuel. Jewish Women Through The Ages. Fact Paper 36. McDonnell, Dianne D. McDonnell. A Church with Women. _____________________________. A Church Without Women. _____________________________. Head and Headship: Men, Women and

Marriage. _____________________________. I suffer not a woman to teach - Let your women keep silent. _____________________________. Let the women keep silent in the churches –

What did Paul mean? _____________________________. Junia, A Woman Apostle. _____________________________. Paul and Women Teachers: Understanding

1Timothy, Chapters 1 & 2. _____________________________. Phoebe, Traveling Through Time. _____________________________. Requirements for a Ministry: Can a Women

be a Minister? _____________________________. Understanding Paul and Obeying Jesus.

119

Bibliography McDonnell, Gary. A Church with Love. Moderndirections.com. The Genesis of Judeo-Christian Anti-Woman Views: Women

and the Bible. Morgan, Howard Morgan. D. Min. Women in Ministry. Mullican, Lenore Lindsey. Women in Leadership. Nelte, Frank. Mistranslations Which Create a Wrong Understanding: Ephesians 5:21 Payne, Phillip B. 2009. Man and Woman, One in Christ: An Exegetical and

Theological Study of Paul's Letters. ______________. 2008. April. 1 Tim 2.12 and the Use of ουδε to Combine Two

Elements to Express a Single Idea“. New Testament Studies 54:2 ; p235-253. ______________. 2006. Wild Hair and Gender Equality in I Cor. 11:2-16. Priscella Papers. Vol. 20, No. 3, p9+

______________. 2004. "The Text-Critical Function of the Umlauts in Vaticanus, with Special Attention to 1 Corinthians 14.34-35: A Response to J. Edward Miller" Journal for the Study of the New Testament 27.1 p105-112.

http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/Payne-2004.pdf ______________. 1998. MS. 88 As Evidence for a Text without 1 Cor 14:34-5. New

Testament Studies. Vol 44. p152-158. Rector, Jim. “Let Your Women Keep Silence!”

www.thehigherlife.com/cs/cs_pub_display.asp?File=women_silence.htm 120

Bibliography _____________________________. Women in the New Testament Church Did

What? Safari, Shmuel. The Place of Women in First-century Synagogues. _____________. The Role of Women in the Temple, Jerusalem Perspective 2

(Jul./Aug. 1989), 5-6. Schenk, Christine. Jesus and Women. Scholer, David H. The Evangelical Debate over Biblical “Headship” . Scott, Brad. …male & female created He them. 4-CD set. No Date. Tetlow, Elisabeth M . The Status of Women in Greek, Roman and Jewish Society

from an internet site quoting from Women and Ministry in the New Testament,

Paulist Press, 1980 pp 5 – 29. United Church of God, 2005, Dec. The Biblical Role of Women: Doctrinal Study

Paper. Went, Jonathan. Difficult Sayings Archives. First available on July 28, 2005.

Female Bishops? (1 Timothy 3:1). ______________. Difficult Sayings Archives. First available on March 10, 2005 .

Junia, A Female Apostle? (Romans 16:7).

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Versions

1.0 Presented at the Season of Our Joy Feast of Sukkot . 10/2/2007 1.1 Presented to a Sighted Moon calendar keeping group the day after the

2011 Season of Our Joy Feast ended at the Camp Windermere, MO: 10/1/10 1.2 Corrected typos, added Codex Fuldensis and Codex Vaticanus, Derstine

and Payne material, Scott material on initiators and responders, Luke 9:54-56 and Josephus reference in the Addendum, created Appendix of Women who Counseled Husbands, moved The Ten to the Appendix, added Josephus quote in the Appendix, plus Derstine, Payne, and Scott references to Bibliography: 11/4/10

1.21 Added Micah 6:4; United Church of God to Bibliography: 11/23/10 1.22 Added Frank Nelte to Bibliography: 2/13/11 1.23 Added p2-5, Brian Huie to Bibliography, p9 on female singing voice;

p43 and 44 on women teaching women, p102, points 3 B & C ; p105 and 106 on women being a pastor; deleted page on Paul and I Corinthians. 7/17/11

1.24 Added Dr Shahak quotes p 10.-11 9/10/11 1.25 Deleted Introduction first page (p2), corrected slide 55 (now 54) by

removing reference to “what law”, correctly retitled points 1, 2 and 3 of Paul’s writings, and slightly modified introduction comments. 2/3/12

122

Documents

Not Nor the home the workplace 1 Copyright © Oct. 2, 2007; Revised February 3, 2012. Version 1.25 All Rights Reserved. by Mike Bacon Permission to distribute