AT-Pre-NOS Aspects

Aspect QuotationsTentativeness(Red)

I’m not sure how certain astronomers are about the structure of a star. I know a great deal of nuclear fusion occurs there producing tremendous heat and light.

In addition to collecting data, astronomers may study existing data looking for patterns or anomalies that they may later try to confirm through fieldwork.

Pre-Interview: Nothing

Empirical based(Orange)

Astronomers use their eyes, both unaided and aided by tools such as telescopes to view stars. They may also use pictures taken by cameras on satellites or probes.

Astronomers are people who study data and observations they use in forming theories.

I am sure astronomers do experiments – someone had to experiment to figure out that certain colors of gases represent certain elements for example.

Astronomers collect data about the universe in many ways. Both optical and radio telescopes are used to collect information. This may be done mechanically (computer recording sounds, taking pictures of stars, etc.) or the astronomers may manipulate the equipment. Celestial bodies are studied according to their light colors (spectral patterns) and composition (elements).

A scientific astronomical observation is an accurate, detailed reporting of a celestial observation.

This observation was done methodically and carefully, systematically recorded.

Astronomers are people who study data and observations they use in forming theories.

Pre-Interview: NothingSubjectivity(Gold)

Galileo believed that the earth was not the center of the universe and predicted that the planet Venus would go through phases like the earth’s moon. He pointed his telescope toward Venus, observing as it went through its phases.

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Pre-Interview: NothingCreativity(Green)

No. They are still independent thinkers.

Pre-Interview:Social/culturalembeddedness.(Blue)

In a perfect world, astronomers would pursue their areas of interest or passion. In the real world, astronomers depend on funding. They may direct their research based on the needs/interests of their research institution/university or other (possibly governmental) funding agency.

Pre-Interview:

JW: Okay.. An Astronomer.. What astronomers choose to study and what they learn about the universe may be influenced by a variety of factors. Describe all the factors you think influence the work of astronomers. And.. I don't have any questions, You said "Funding", "Interest" "What ever their Universities want them to do.." what ever. Right

AT: Okay.

JW: "Funding agency" Ya. I mean..

AT:okay.

JW: those are all the things.

AT: that was all I could think of...JW: So, I guess we don't need to ask.. "If several astronomers working independently ask the same question.. will they necessarily come to the same conclusion?" You said "No, See number three."

AT: <laughing>

JW: okay.

AT: I was tired of writing.

JW: I know, I understand.. and, okay. There it is in number three. Fine

AT: Mhhrrm. Okay.

JW: "Does response change if astronomers are working together?" And you say, "No, they are still independent thinkers." What influence……

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So. Okay, so they are still independent thinkers, even though they are now working on a team. Together. Maybe at the same place, maybe not.. But.. They are being funded on the same grant, or something

AT: Mhhrrmm.

JW: And maybe even at the same university.

AT: Okay. I mean, I think they can learn from each other but I still think they make their own-

JW: you still think they make their own

AT: Decisions

JW: okay, So pear preassure is not an influence.AT: Well it wouldn't be for me, if I were an astronomer. But, I'm pretty independent. <laugh>

JW: Notice how I'm not following that.. line of discussion?

AT: <still laughing>

JW: Peer preassure …. Not an a strong influence.. would be a way. Okay fine.

AT: I gues I would hope that it would be more of a collaborative situation than a peer preassure type thing.<pause>

JW: Okay.. uhhh… So you don't think that at sittin' down and shittin' the bull at lunch .. They would influence each other? Or do you think they would still draw their battle lines?

AT: I think it depends on how strongly they felt about the data they had.

Observations and Inferences(Indigo)

Astronomy differs from other sciences since so much about stars, planets, etc. has to be inferred. It is very difficult studying objects so far away. Other science deal with things on our earth, therefore they are easier to study directly.

Pre-Interview: NothingTheories and laws(Violet)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: Nothing

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AT-Pre- SI Aspects

Aspect QuotationsMethods(Dk Red)

Scientific investigation may follow the “scientific method” which includes making predictions (hypothesis), collecting and recording data (making observations, performing an experiment, etc.), analyzing that data and drawing conclusions.Sometimes scientific theories develop from the human imagination. Sometimes discoveries are accidental (serendipity).I think all of these are possible.

Pre-Interview:

JW: Okay. So…. <flip flip><mumble> "Some people complain that all Scientific investigations (including astronomy) ….<mummle> Following the same steps or methods.<mummle>.. That's the scientific method as portrayed in most textbooks.

AT: Mhhrrmmm

JW: you may follow a scientific method that includes making hypothesis, collecting data, analyzing the data, and drawing conclusions.. Some times scientific theories develop from human imagination, sometimes discoveries are accidental." I think all of these are possible…. Do you think that.. in general the steps of the scientific method are followed in most scientific investigations. As portrayed in your textbooks.. step 1, step2, step3, step 4, step 5, and bingo we have the answer. Or we..

AT: No ,I think there is a lot more back in forth.. You know, you look at what you have, you analyze it, you change your.. what you thought, you check it again. I think it's not.. a straight forward, linear… progression. It's more a zigzaggy thing..<laugh><pause>

JW: okay that's-

AT: If that makes sense to you

JW: what I wanted to find out. That makes perfect sense.

Consistency(Lt Orange)

The conclusion that blue stars are more common than red stars was based on scientific investigation as long as the stars were counted systematically and accurately.

Pre-Interview: Nothing

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Interpretations(Lime)

This data is open to interpretation, thus various astronomers may draw differing conclusions based on the same evidence.

This data is open to interpretation, thus various astronomers may draw differing conclusions based on the same evidence.”

Pre-Interview: NothingData/evidence(Sky Blue)

I think the term “data” is the same in astronomy as in any other branch of science – records of observations.

Data may be evidence it is used in support of a theory.

Pre-Interview:

JW: Depends.. okay..<flip flip> Number 11, a: "what does the term data mean in astronomy?' I know, it's the guy in Star Trek! But that's..

AT: <small laugh> I love that show…

JW: Ummm. Ya, I do to.. "I think the term data is the same in astronomy as in any other branch of science. Records of observations…" What…. Kinds.. of records of observations?

AT: Drawings.. writings…JW: <mummle>

AT: images.. by which I mean photographs or what ever..

JW: ya, or ccd, or.. what ever…

AT: right, what ever.. ya, video recordings.. audio recordings..

JW: Right… "Is data the same or different from evidence? " "Data may be evidence if it is used to support a theory." I have no question there.. I mean that's pretty obvious.

AT: okay.

JW: Unless you want to add something?

AT: No.

JW: Oh, I do have a question. Does it have to support a theory?

AT: To be evidence?

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JW: mhhrrmmm.<pause>

AT: I guess that's what I think evidence means. Youre using evidence to prove something, or show something, or support soemthing

JW: Evidence.. Okay, so what 's the best way to state this? Evidence is used… to … support… theories. Can it be

AT: So your asking "is it evidence if it's just sitting there all by it'self? I'm saying not, because I think it's data <mummle>

JW: Okay, right. It is data.

AT:<mummler>

JW: does it have to be used to support….. does it have to be used to support an already known theory?

AT: No, you might use it in support of your own.

JW: Ookay. Evidence is used to support theories.. may.. cause new.. theory.. or.. hypothesis.

AT: ,mummle mummle>

Data analysis(Lavender)

Astronomical data analysis involves looking at information that has been collected searching or patterns, anomalies, etc.

The process involves lots of higher level thinking such as analysis, synthesis and evaluation.

Pre-Interview:

JW: Okay, that's what I wanted to get. Alright, Number 12, " What is astronomical data analysis?" "Astronomical data analysis involves looking at information that has been collected, searching for pattern's, anomalies, etc." Okay. Anything you want to add to that?

AT: Mhhh, No.

JW: How does one go about searching for patterns or anomylies?<pause>

AT: Ummm…… You might.. you might look at lots of pieces of information nthat were at about the same place at or time and look for

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things that are alike or different.<pause>An anomaly would be something that just kinda sticks out.. That is so different from everything else that you have seen. So it doesn't make sense, it makes you question it.

JW: Okay. " what is involved in doing astronomical data analysis?" " The process involves lots of high level thinking such as analysis, synthesis, and evaluation" So, how is that done?<pause>

AT: ..what do you mean?

JW: ahhh.. okay?

AT: I mean ,you use your brain. You have to do the lower level stuff first, you have to look at what you have, you have to understand or comprehend what you have, before you can anilyze it and see what's alike and different.

JW: How do you find out what is alike and different? How do you make that comparison?

AT: well, I guess if you are looking at stars, you looks fro ones that are the same, or that look different. Freom others..

JW: Okay.

AT: you know, the synthesis part is looking for things that loo kthe same in different places. You know, like maybe you say ' Okay, the stars act this way when they are near.. uh, a nebula.. They move this way.. then you

JW: okay.

AT: find similarities.

JW: okay. Fine. So so, you think.. you think we've got you accurately portrayed from the beginning?

AT: Oh yes.

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AT-Pre additional aspects

Aspect QuotationsAstronomical(Dk blue)

Astronomy is the branch of science that deals with all celestial bodies, including stars and planets.

Pre-Interview:

" What does a star look like, how certain are astronomers about the structure of a star. What specific evidence do you think astronemers used to determin what a star looks like.<pause>You said , "A star looks like a bright disc"….I want to know what you meant by bright and disc

AT: <laugh> Umm…

JW: because then you say, " Our sun is closest to us, so it appears much brighter than other stars." It is not

AT: meaning its not brighter and larger than a lot of other stars…?

JW: Looks like it in the sky.

AT: It looks like it but it's not.

JW: it's not…so…

AT: Disc I just mean round, like a circle.JW: Okkay.. So..

AT: Riighht

JW: Round like

AT: …a circle..

JW: like a circle..

AT: I mean, it doesn't just look like a ball in the sky, it looks like a circle.. It's flat.

JW: Ya.. okay. But what … I guess what I'm asking is "does it have size too it"

AT: well, ya, there are different sizes, some look like little tiny

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pinpoints and some look bigger.

JW: Okay, so round circles from .. from…. <pause> from pinpoints… to.. larger sizes.. <writing something down>Okay.

AT: I guess what I meant was… they don't look like… stars that we draw, with points on them. That's what I was trying to say… they don't..

JW: They don't… <writing what she said down>

AT: They don't have points on them necessarily. <laugh>

JW: <still writing> They … don't look like drawings ... pointy stars.

AT: right

JW: ….Okay

AT: and then the bright-

JW: But, but , they do have a size to them..

AT: Yup, yup… The bright part, I meant, just, you know when you look at the sky it's dark, but then the stars are bright.. They look like… white.

JW: Okay.

That's what I meant ... compared to the dark they're bright.

JW: <writing down> They are ... bright ... relative to . To dark sky.AT: Yes. That's what it is..

JW: Okay. Since you were talking about the sun, we needed to clarify ... compared to the sun, or what was the comparison.

AT: okay.

JW: okay

AT: I mean, with the sun you see colors and stuff, but you don't see …<couldn't hear word> you do see colors in the <think the word is morning> sky, but ... not like ... what the ...what sun. <some words said quietly, couldn't make them out>

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JW: Hrrrmmm…. Hrmm…. Oh okay

AT: okay.

Mathematical(Pink)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingCommunications(Brown)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingCalibration(Tan)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingInstrumentation(Gray 25%)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: Nothing

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Emotions Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingAmateur(Teal)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingTeaching & Learning(Green)

Nothing

Pre-Interview:JW: this discussion. You said that the <laugh> astronomy labs weren't real? What constitutes authenticity?AT: <laugh>

JW: or real -ness, what ever that is.?

AT: well, I guess I think of astronomers as looking through telescopes, and looking at the sky, and that was not what we did at the labs.

JW: What did we do in the labs?

AT: we measured a lot of things. I remember doing lots of measurement

JW: Oh, well, astronomers would never do that. <laugh>

AT: wellya, they would..<laugh> we looked at some gasses, at the colors of some gasses.. that I guess an astronomer would do. Try to figure out what a star is made of.. and..

JW: well, some scientists, anyway.

AT: Somebody.. Ya.. <mummle> more like chemistry.

JW: Ya, probably.

AT:Ya. Uhhmmm… Mhhh.

JW: actually, we rely on the chemists to tell us those lines.

AT: Oh, okay, ya

JW: We just assume they've got it right.. or some atomic physicists.

AT: okay. I remember doing that.

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JW: Okay.

AT:I don't remember what else.. I just thought astronomers looked at stars, I didn't think about all those other things that go into it.

JW: So all the way through astronomy 710, 720, you just thought it was kinda fakey?

AT: Ya, it was just to have us have ... something to do to -

JW: Is fakey a good word? Something, say, something to do in lab.

AT: mhhrmm not authentic

JW: Killing time.

AT: Well, no it's higher education is jumping through hoops and you have to

JW: so these are little hoops?

AT: Uhh0huh

JW: How would you compare that to what your doing this summer?

AT: Now, what I am doing this summer is real ,because I really got to look through the telescope, and I got to really take the pictures And then I'm making the measurements on the data I collected.

JW: okay. Anything else that might make it real?<pause>I mean, if that is where we stopped, would that be enough to make it real?

AT: Well, I understand more about the measurements.. I just made them to turn them in.. I didn't really understand them ,or know what they were for.

JW: okay, so you feel that you now understand.. you took the pictures , you feel you understand what all the data was about.. from those pictures. Because you did it all.

AT: yes.

JW: does making a poster presentation and/or presenting it to the

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naval observatory…would that make it any more real, or does that not matter much?

AT: I don't think it makes it more real

JW: So, if you didn't do that part, you would think it was real enough?

AT: Ya, because weather some one else knows that I know it doesn't really matter to me or not. I know that I know it

JW: That's a personal thing

AT:I know that I underastand it. I mean when I listened to that astronomer last week , and I actually could understand the little charts he was drawing. Yes.

JW: ohhh, <mummle>

AT: it let me know that -

JW: that's JO for those interpreting.<laugh>

AT: I have assimilated some of this information that I didn't think I was understanding. So that, That helped me know, I don't think spouting things off to astronomer's would help me know.

JW: So, so when a working, practicing astronomer came in, and talked to you about their binary star work, and you understood the jargon..

AT: mhhrrmm.

JW: … You felt.. at that time that you had an authentic experience?

AT: Yes.

JW: Was it authentic before that? Or were you still

AT: I think I was getting there…

JW: okay

AT: but that's was just really confirming

JW: Okay, so that's where you think it became authentic.

13

AT: mhhrmm.

JW: And doing this presentation..

AT: It's just something I have to do.

JW: Okay. Fine. Okay.

AT: 'Cause I don't care if the big astronomers I understand it or not, their opinion doesn't really matter to me.

JW: ..okay.

AT:<laugh>

JW: well, you just stay home!

AT:<laughing>

JW: no no, you go..

AT: You asked what I thought.

JW: and fine and you told me.. Tape off! <laughing> I'm just kidding that's just fine. That's interresitng.. so..<pause> for a student in your class, where do you think authenticity comes from? Because that's something I'm actually trying to get at.

AT: Mhhrmmm.. <pause>

JW: Some how, I've had this illusion that this is like fantasy football, or fantasy baseball.

AT: Uhuh, mhhrrmm.

JW: That.. it pays ya money, and your gonna play baseball in.. Fort Lauderdale, with the Braves or the Cardinals or somebody.. your gonna really be… for a week.. on the atlanta braves team <pause> And I think there is some element of that in what I do.

AT :Oh ya.

JW: it pays you money, and you do.. and you get on the astronomy team for a summer.

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AT: right, I wasn't playing at astronomy, I was doing astronomy.

JW: What would be playing at astronomy?

AT: Those labs.<laughing>

JW: Thank you!

AT:<laughing>

JW: I think I'll burn that book now.

AT:<laghing> it's horrid! How are you supposed to do an astronomy lab during the day? You can't go look at the stars… you know, astronomy labs need to be scheduled at night, at HLCL where you actually do stuff.

JW: All 1000 students who are en

AT: well, ya, it's not practical

JW: That becomes an issue. Besides parking. There's not enough restroom face

AT: right,, it's not practical.

JW: I know what it's like to have 1500 people in that compound at one time..

AT: ewwww

JW: Persead meteor shower back in 1993. They were expecting a big storm ,and CNN played it up like..and we had a stampede of people.

AT: Ya.

JW: we had no portapoties. It was a nightmare. Because people were sitting out on their blankets, drinking sodas and lemonade.. and then… there was a huge line.. for one facility.

AT: oh my goodness.

JW: But people enjoyed it nonetheless. And you couldn't walk I nthe yard…

AT:<laughing>

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JW: I mean " excuse me, sorry, sorry, coming through"

AT: wow.

JW: So that's a practical issue. But doing those labs is playing astronomy?

AT: Yes....JW: So, you wouldn't say your kids have to have some astronomer come in, or meet with them, or what ever, and find out that they are using similar language or did similar things

AT: It might help.. uhh..you never know what will make it real for different people.

JW: right. That's what made it real for you.

AT: Right. And, you knoe, learning is induvidual.

JW: So it could be making poster presentations to big shot astronomers, if you will. Could make it real for some one else in the astronomy class.

AT: exactally.

JW: but to you it doesn't matter.

AT: no.

JW: to you , it's real already.

AT: right, so that's why

JW: And the moment happened when J was talking, and you realized that he's doing and saying the very same things that we've done.

AT:yes.

JW: I was an astronomer for some level, for the summer.

AT: And that's why you have to try and provide all those different

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kinds of experiences and what ever, because you never know what's gonna make it click for a child or an adult.. I mean you can't predict. It's not that exact.

JW: No ,you can't

AT: I mean , we're people, we all come at things different ways.

JW: That's curious that that is when it happened for you. Because that was serensomething that I had him come in. I saw him printing off a binary star.. picture.

AT: I had wondered if you had planned it.

JW: No. It was unplanned.. I saw him the day before printing off.. Well, maybe not the day before your class,

AT: uhuh

JW: two days before.. Standing in the hall wall, and I walked by and said "Oh, there's a binary star." And he goes "ya." And I said, "well what are you doing with them?" And he said "I'm measuring position angles and separations, We just discovered them" And I went, "Bingo! Opportunity! Strike!"

AT: uh-huh.

JW: And asked if he would come in and talk about that. Because I knew that was not the work he was originally doing. Or, I didn't think it was.

AT: Well, you said he was doing parallax.

JW: Right. And this just sorta came out of that. But he still had to make all those same calibrations, to do parallax calibrations. So, that was an unplanned, " I think I'll take advantage of this opportunity because it presented itself."

AT: and it was very helpful too me.

JW: Right.

AT: And you may interview every one else in the class, and find out that "well, that was a waste of my morning"

JW: No, I don't think so, I think…. Just from lsitenined to C, and a

17

couple of others.. They seemed.. It was interesting that he was saying things like, "well, ya know, I have to determin the orientation of the camera and the telescope relative to the sky, because it's just kinda stuck on there, in some orientation. So, I have to turn the telescope drive off, and let it trail from east to west, and then turn it back on again, or what ever he said to that effect. I could kinda see in peoples faces at that moment like "Hey, we did that."

AT: Yes, and how he was talking about the pixels of a chip, and it was like.. "Oh."

JW: Ya, it was talking about measuring x and y pixels… And I could see on people's faces.

AT: Mhhrrmm.

JW: even though I didn't capture that on film very well.. It's hard.

AT: Yeah, it is.

JW: I could just kinda see it on their faces, like "oh, I kinda understand what he's talking about. Maybe not every detail, but, I'm following this."

AT: Yeah, if you had brought him in at the beginning before we did any of that work..

JW: sure.

AT: it wouldn't have been meaningful. Other than that.. okay.. here's an over view of what people do, measuring binary stars.

JW: But we just jumped in and did it.

AT: Right.

JW: And I told you some of the reasons for doing that. I don't, I personally don't believe that…. You can tell your kids to go out and do something … or teachers… to do an investigation and just figure it out for yourself. It doesn't happen.

AT: No.

JW: it took many years to figure out the best techniques to do things, and if you want to participate at some reasonable level, you have to know what those are. And letting you try to figure it out for yourself,

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might not happen in a lifetime.

AT: mhrrmm

JW: And I'm not sure that, you know, you would have figured out that you needed an east west calibration until the summer was over, and then it's too late to do it, And you may never figure out how to do that.

AT: Mhrmmm.

JW: left to your own devices.. So I'm not for… just turning people totally loose.

AT: Ya, they need some guidance.

JW: They need some guided inquiry for a while.

AT:mhrmm

JW: but, now, if you start asking your own questions.. and you have some basis for calibrating your or standards or.. what ever… then you can run on your own

AT: That makes sense to me.

JW: But I thought it was neat that he was talking about exactally the same thing.

AT: it was.

JW: And he was doing it in exactly the same way. Just with a bigger telescope.

AT: It's hard to get to that point in a classroom because the children lack a lot of concepts, that they need as background to even do the thinking about manipulating them.

JW: sure. And I was gonna say, I just don't think that letting them loose works.

AT: They don't.

JW: I don't think.. When I saw you guys were confused, I didn't just totally let you figure it out, I tried to jump in and say something ... whether you liked it or not.

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AT: <laughing> .. Well, thanks.

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Selection Effects(Aqua)

Nothing

Pre-Interview:

JW:" an astronomer notices that with their unaided eye they can see more blue stars in the night sky than red stars." Okay.. "Using the telescope, they find more blue stars than red stars" Two different ways of doing things.. "Do you consider the person's investigation to be scientific? Explain why or why not."… "The conclusion that blue stars are more common than red stars was based on a scientific investigation so long as the stars were counted systematically and accurately." Okay. Then your question, "was the sky observed at different times of the year? Different stars are present during the various seasons."

AT: Because I thought that would affect the count of the various stars.

JW: Okay.

AT: Depending on which stars were up there.

JW: Uhhmm….. this.. is.. a …. Selection… effect…. Question. Okay. So, maybe in the spring there might be more blue stars than in the fall.

AT: yeah.

JW: and in the summer there might be red stars… more of them.. Than blue stars.

AT: and if you went to the southern hemisphere it might look different than if you… were in the northern hemisphere.

JW: so.. So far as it goes, it's scientific.

AT: right

JW: it is not conclusive.

AT: No, because they aren't.. They're not looking at everything. They can't see all the stars at one time.<pause>

Scientific Nothing

21

Pre-Interview:

JW: so, just going out to look through real telescopes is real astronomy? So would you.. would you say that the little observing lab we did.. were you just sketched some binary stars was real and authentic?

AT: yes.

JW: okay.

AT: 'cause I actually looked at them, and I reported what I saw. You could go and make measurements and do all that other stuff if you wanted, later

JW: Was that a scientific observation?

AT:well, I think I put in the journal that we were using scientific instruments, but we weren't being very systematic or very methodic.

JW: So you weren't being scienticfic

AT: No we really weren't, we were just kinda playing.

JW: so just using scientific instruments is not being scientists?

AT: well ,you have to do the thinking part with it.. <laugh> not just play

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Experiments andObservations

Nothing

Pre-Interview:

AT: Well… I haven't ever really read about what ever experiments they did ... I'm ... surmising-

JW: So, you have never ever heard of an astronomical experiment.

AT: I'm surmising that they do experiments. And I’m ... I thought up something that I thought some one

JW:<writing down> Surmizing.. two Mm's?

AT: no ,one<long pause>

JW: You've never actually heard of an astronomical experiment? Oh, hey jenny. ...Jw: okay fine… <continues writing down> Surmising they do experiments …you've never…… heard of one?

AT: I mean, we did labs when I took astronomy classes, but I don't.. I've never really thought that those were things that astronomers really do.. I thought. .those were just things we did …to have an.. Astronomy lab.<pause>

JW: Well that's interesting.

AT: Ya.

JW: so labs… you.. did.. in.. 7010, or 7020?

AT: I took them both.

JW:7010/7020… <pause> were not..<pause> I can get this off the tapeAT: Ya.

JW: were not things…. <mumbles to self><long pause>Okay.. tHat's an interesting statement.

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AT: <laugh>

JW: what types of Activities do Astronomers do to learn about the universe? Be specific about how they go about their work Okay. So "Astronomers collect date about the universe in many ways.. both optical and radio telescopes are used to collect information.. this may be done mechanically, with computer recording sounds, taking pictures of stars, etc.." What did you mean by a "computer recording sound?"

AT: That the radio telescopes-

JW: computer recording sounds

AT: you know, how they hear those little "blip blip" things like the.. <garble>

JW: with the radio….<pause>

AT: well, maybe they're not sounds. Maybe they are recorded or something else…

JW: Computer recording sounds.. from.. radio telescopes..

AT: I gues I thought.. you know.. radio.. sound.. you know..

JW:So.. radio.. telescopes… hear sound?

AT: I don't really know.. that would be my guess.

JW:okay

AT:I know, when I watch Contact, Jody puts on Headphones to listen. So that made me think she was hearing something.<pasue> She wasn't looking into Anything , she was listening.

JW: Okay.. So.. let me just clarify.. so ,there are just sounds coming

AT: From the stars

JW:from the stars.

AT: ..from the stars.. through space.. Ya. . I mean, they even got that blind guy that they got too listen , because he could hear better..<garble><pause>

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JW: Mmmmk. I just wanted to be sure what.

AT:I mean, I may be totally wrong in that, but, that's what I think they were doing. <laugh><static on tape>

JW: I just wanted to be sure what you were saying

AT: okay.

JW: That's what I thought you meant, but..

AT: okay...JW: Seven. "Write a definition of an scientific astronomical observation. "A scientific astronomical observation is an accurate, detailed reporting of an a celestial observation." True…. I am curious what you mean by "accurate, detailed".

AT: Ummm …… I guess, Trying to report what you actually saw, rather than ... interpreting it.

JW: okay.

AT: trying to say… it was.. you know..this many degrees above the horizon , and…

JW: record…. What is.. actually…. Seen. .. Not…. Interpret… <couldn't understand word> doesn't matter if I can spell.

AT: <laugh>

JW: Not interpretations but… that's…<pause>Okay… Then that explains your .. statements about Galileo.. "Galileo did not believe the earth was the center of the universe, and predicted that the planet Venus would go through phases like the Earth's moon. Pointing his telescope toward Venus, observing as it went through it's phases"

AT: Well, I'm guessing that he drew what he saw when he looked

JW: He drew..which is true, I suppse.

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AT: I mean, not just trying to remember what he saw.. he tried to , record it.. and that would be the best way he has at that time.. To draw it.

JW:<mummle..> ..amazingly enough

AT: Well, Ya. If you tried to draw what you see

JW: There are people who can draw planets.. Pencil.. So well,

AT: Uhuh.

JW: .. better than photographs… at least from the ground

AT: Well… a lot of times the human eye can se things that a camera can't see.

JW: Right. And Hubble can'tbe looking at every planet every second

AT: Right.

JW: So ,all these ground based amature astronomers who like to just sketch planets

AT: Mhhrrmm.

JW: can make a contribution

AT: That makes sense.

JW: you got any good artists who would like to be astronomers in your classes?

AT: <laugh>

JW: There ya go

AT: Really. There is a need for that?

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Culture of science

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingMotivation Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingErrors Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingHuman errors(Sky blue)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingConfirmation(Plum)

Nothing

Pre-Interview: NothingTeam work Nothing

Pre-Interview: Nothing

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