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© Nitrochemie 2012 New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 // MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C Beat Vogelsanger, Ruth Sopranetti, Beate Pausch, Marc Müller and Dominik Werfl 1 Patrick Folly 2 Mario Paquet 3 Lucas R Lopez, Lydia Chang 4 1 NITROCHEMIE WIMMIS AG, Switzerland 2 FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE, armasuisse, Thun, Switzerland 3 GENERAL DYNAMICS OTS, Valleyfield, Canada 4 US DoD, ARDEC, Picatinny NJ, USA

New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

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Page 1: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

© Nitrochemie 2012

New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing –

STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 // MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

Beat Vogelsanger, Ruth Sopranetti, Beate Pausch, Marc Müller and Dominik Werfl 1

Patrick Folly 2

Mario Paquet 3

Lucas R Lopez, Lydia Chang 4

1 NITROCHEMIE WIMMIS AG, Switzerland2 FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE, armasuisse, Thun, Switzerland 3 GENERAL DYNAMICS OTS, Valleyfield, Canada4 US DoD, ARDEC, Picatinny NJ, USA

Page 2: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

2

Contents

� Introduction

� History of Standards for NC Testing

� Differences between STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 and MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

� Status of Ratification / Implementation

� Round Robin Test (RRT) on Nitrocellulose Analysis

� Highlights of the new Standards

� Drawbacks / not yet solved Problems

� Summary and Outlook

Page 3: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

3

Introduction – Recent History of Standards for NC Testing

MIL-N-244A(1962)

UK M22 / M23 / M39(1987/89/88)

Other

Standards

MIL-DTL-244B/ECP(2010)

MIL-DTL-244C (2012)

STANAG 4178 Ed. 2(2009)

2007 – 2009

NATO/PfP AC/326 SG/1 CNG + US Industrial

Product Team (IPT) + international NC Experts

55 Persons /// 36 MoD/DoD Agencies,

Institutes, Companies /// 17 Nations

3 Joint Meetings + many Sub-Team Meetings

MIL-DTL-244B(1996)

STANAG 4178 Ed. 1(1991)

Identical

Test-

Procedures

Page 4: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

4

Differences between STANAG 4178 and MIL-DTL-244

Standard STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

Classification of NCs --- ���� (Grades A–F; Types I-III)

Specification for NCs --- (only typical ranges) ����

Testing Procedures NC

Testing Quality Requirements

Alterations for chalked NC

���� (all relevant tests)

����

����

���� (only required tests)

---

---

Requirements Raw Material --- ����

Requirements Prod. Process --- ����

� STANAG 4178 is a compendium of nitrocellulose test procedures

� MIL-DTL-244 is a specification for nitrocellulose that also contains test procedures (but only the ones that are needed for this specification)

Page 5: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

5

�Nitrogen Content- Ferrous Ion Titration - Nitrogen Analyzer - Combustion Calorimetry- (Devarda's Alloy Method) - (Schulze-Tiemann)- (Nitrometer)

�Ether-Alcohol Solubles- Filtration Method- Evaporation Method

�Acetone Insolubles

Stability

Purity

Fibre Quality

Polymeric Properties

Water / Alcohol Cont.

Other Properties

Basic Characterisation

�Fineness

�Fibre Length Distribution

�Water Retention Value

�Drainability

�Agglomerates

�Visual Purity Test

�Ash

�Grit

�Ionic Impurities- Ion Chromatography- Sulphate Content- Residual Acidity - Alkalinity- Calcium by Spectroscopy

�Oil and Grease Content

�(Abel-Type Heat Tests)

�132°°°°C Stability Test- Bergmann-Junk - Bergmann-Junk-Siebert

�134.5°°°°C Heat Test (MV)

�Viscosity

�Molecular Mass Distribut.

�Total Volatile Content- Oven Method - Moisture Analyzer

�Water Content- Karl-Fischer Titration - Karl-Fischer Oven

�Alcohol and / or Water- Gas Chromatography - NIR Spectroscopy

�Temperature of Ignition

�Heat of Explosion

Test Methods of STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 and MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

Page 6: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

6

STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 Ratification Status

USA

CanadaUK

Spain

Nether-lands

Denmark

Latvia

Czech Rep.

BulgariaFrance

Slovenia

� STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 is currently in NATO ratification

� 11 nations including US, UK and France have already ratified

� a total of 14 nations (50% of the 28 NATO nations) need to ratify

� many nations have already implemented the new testing procedures

Switzerland is custodian nation

Page 7: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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MIL-DTL-244 B / C Status of Implementation

� MIL-DTL-244 B with ECP # R10C3001 (2010)

� ECP = Engineering Change Proposal

� Officially implemented

� Currently used by the US ARMY, NAVY and Air Force

� MIL-DTL-244 C (2012)

� Approved by the Nitrocellulose Configuration Manager (PM-CAS)

� ARDEC standardization group is working on the document to ensure

spec language complies with DoD requirements

� Not yet implemented !

Test procedures of MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP, MIL-DTL-244 C and STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 are identical

Page 8: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Round Robin Test (RRT) on Nitrocellulose Analysis

� Mandate: NATO/PfP AC/326 SG1 CNG

� Organiser: US ARDEC, GD-OTS Valleyfield, Nitrochemie Wimmis

� Goals:

� Implementation of new methods (STANAG 4178 Ed.2 / MIL-DTL-244B/ECP)

� To improve performance / get confidence in new testing methods

� To obtain an idea about typical variations between labs

� In the long term: To trigger communication within the NC community and to further improve testing methods

� Samples: 6 samples; each 2 samples Grade A, B, C

� 3 samples with known results (to adjust procedures / gain confidence)

� 3 samples with unknown results (for RRT).

� Tests for RRT: N-Content, EA-Solubility, Acetone Insolubles, 134.5°°°°C Heat Test, 132°°°°C Stability Test (Bergmann-Junk), Fineness, Viscosity

� If you are interested to participate, please inform the organisers

Page 9: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

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© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Some Highlights of the new Standards

� Ionic Impurities – Ion Chromatography Method:

� Modern method to assess numerous different ionic impurities simultaneously

� Polymeric Properties – Gel Permeation Chromatography GPC:

� Modern method to assess the distribution of degree of

polymerisation (conventional viscosity only results

indirect measure for average degree of polymerisation)

� Tests for Fibre Quality:

� Different test method to investigate the fibre properties

� A new method to assess the fraction of the NC which is

present as agglomerates

� Several indirect methods to estimate the amount of cutting / grinding / refining the NC had undergone

� A new direct method to determine the real fibrelength distribution of the NC

Page 10: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

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© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Highlight 1: Ion Chromatography Method

IC of Nitrocellulose A - Cations

0 5 10 15 20 25

Retention Time [Min]

IC of Nitrocellulose A - Anions

0 2 4 6 8 10

Retention Time [Min]

� New method; procedure has been supplied by USA

� Can be used to assess numerous different ionic impurities

� Principle: Extraction of the ions from the NC with boiling

water, followed by analysis with ion chromatography

� Recommended method in STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 !Chromatograms provided by

F- = 4 ppm

Cl- = 15 ppm

NO2- = 44 ppm

NO3- = 109 ppm

SO42- = 18 ppm Na+ =

195 ppm

Mg2+ = 13 ppm

K+ = 18 ppm

Ca2+ = 116 ppm

Page 11: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Highlight 2: Gel Permeation Chromatography

� GPC →→→→ Distribution of Degree of Polymerisation / Molecular Mass

� Viscosity →→→→ AverageDegree of Polymerisation

Degree of Polymerisation =

Length of NC Polymer Chain

Typical Value: n = 500 – 1'400

(= Molecular Mass of 300'000 – 800'000 Daltons; may be lower or higher for specific NC qualities)

n

O

CH2 ONO2

H

H

ONO2

ONO2

H

H

OH

OO

H

ONO2

H

CH2 ONO2

H

ONO2

H

H

Page 12: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Highlight 3: New Methods for Fibre Length Determination

200

800

�� �� SR

400

600

mL

10

30

50

70

90

L = 357 µm

The Fibre Length of NC is a process relevant property as it reveals the amount

of cutting / grinding / refining the NC had undergone during manufacture

Indirect Methods

���� Water Retention

Value WRV

Direct Method

���� Fibre Length /

Shape Analyzer���� Fineness ���� Drainability

Ca-

mera

Light

Source

→→→→ NC settling

volume

→→→→ NC average

fibre length and

distribution

250

30

70

90

50

130

230

250 mL

210

190

170

150

110

10g dry NC+ water

- shaking

- settling 1h

settling volume

→→→→ Water retention

value = water content

of centrifuged NC

wet NC

centri-fuging

3000 g

→→→→ Drainability = rate

of dewatering of pulp

NC pulp

small Ø

large Ø

Page 13: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Highlight 3: Fibre Quality Analyzer – Principle of Operation

CCD

Camera

Pulsed

Light

Source

Sample

Dispersing

Unit

Cuvette

Sample Flow

- Instrument Control

- Data Acquisition

- Image Analysis

- Output of Result

Example Picture

Page 14: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

14

Highlight 3: Fibre Quality Analyzer – Image Analysis

Agglomerates can be

eliminated from analysis

Image analysis using the "Skeletonising Method":

Fibre length is determined as longest direct way

between two endpoints of the particle (fibre)

Page 15: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

15

Highlight 3: Fibre Quality Analyzer – Repeatability

� Excellent Repeatability (replicate analysis)

� Significant difference between two different NC samples found (as expected)

0.0

2.5

5.0

7.5

10.0

12.5

15.0

17.5

20.0

22.5

25.0

27.5

30.0

32.5

35.0

37.5

40.0

42.5

45.0

47.5

50.0

52.5

55.0

57.5

60.0

62.5

65.0

67.5

70.0

72.5

75.0

77.5

80.0

82.5

85.0

87.5

90.0

92.5

95.0

97.5

100.0

Ve

rte

ilu

ng

ssu

mm

e Q

1 / %

0.0

0.2

0.4

0.6

0.8

1.0

1.2

1.4

1.6

1.8

2.0

2.2

2.4

2.6

2.8

3.0

3.2

3.4

3.6

3.8

4.0

4.2

4.4

4.6

4.8

5.0

5.2

5.4

5.6

5.8

6.0

Ve

rte

ilu

ng

sd

ich

te q

1*

2 4 6 8 10 20 40 60 80 100 200 400 600 800 1000 2000 4000 6000

Faserlänge / µm

Param. 1

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

NirtoChemie Faser M2

Param. 2

M2 d

M2 d

M2 d

M2 d

M2 d

M2 d

M2 d

M2 c

M2 c

M2 c

M2 c

M2 c

M2 c

M2 c

M2 c

M2 b US

M2 b

M2 b

x(10 %)

µm

11,17

11,51

12,82

11,32

11,42

11,66

12,90

12,24

11,72

12,49

11,30

12,00

11,80

12,51

12,67

11,08

11,11

11,16

x(50 %)

µm

148,55

148,43

152,23

148,92

147,85

147,89

150,43

151,99

152,95

150,72

148,50

148,84

148,34

150,54

153,97

145,27

147,53

147,28

x(90 %)

µm

459,03

465,82

467,88

461,54

458,59

457,23

465,92

469,29

467,48

455,08

454,53

457,28

458,66

457,00

471,94

454,70

456,91

453,42

opt. Konzentration

%

0,18

0,18

0,18

0,18

0,19

0,19

0,19

0,11

0,11

0,11

0,11

0,11

0,11

0,12

0,12

0,15

0,16

0,17

Partikel in QICPIC-Ausw ertung

111138

111934

112159

915304

944728

944292

952901

67838

68684

70457

563775

567366

573572

571649

587504

795358

816595

854051

Ausw .Mode

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

LEFI

Sympatec GmbH Büro Augsburg

Sample M2- 4 replicates- each replicate measured 3 to 8 times

- Number of fibres measured:>500’000 fibres (= 30s with 400 frames/s)

or ≈≈≈≈ 70’000 fibres(= 60s with 25 frames/s)

Sample M6- 2 replicates- each measured 3 times

Fibre Length:

(number of pixels)1 2 3 4

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Highlight 3: Fibre Quality Analyzer – Refining Process

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

80

90

100

0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000

Fibre Length [µm]

Cu

mu

lati

ve F

ibre

Len

gth

Ll

[%

]

NC 01 I 196-10

Cut 1 _ 1 h

Cut 1 _ 2 h

Cut 1 _ 3 h

Cut 1 _ 3.7 h

Cut 2 _ 1 h

Cut 2 _ 2 h

Cut 2 _ 3 h

Cut 2 _ 3.7 h

Cut 3 _ 1 h

Cut 3 _ 2 h

Cut 3 _ 2.8 h

Finished Lot

Progress of the refining

process can be tracked

almost in real-time

Page 17: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

New Standards for NC Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244 B/ECP / C

© Nitrochemie 20122012 NC Symp Spiez _ Pres Vogelsanger et al 1 _ Standards for NC Testing.ppt Vob

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Highlight 3: Fibre Quality Analyzer – Different Instruments

Normalized Cumulative Lenght-Weighted Fiber Length Distribution for Sample M2

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

80

90

100

0 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800Fiber Length (µm)

% C

um

ula

tiv

e F

ibe

r L

en

gth

Downside of method:

Result strongly depends

on instrument type and

chosen resolution

This because higher

optical resolution means

that also smaller fibres

("fines") are recognised

and included in the data

analysis)

Instrument 3:

Fibres ≥≥≥≥ 42 µmLl = 268 ±±±±4 µm

Instrument 2:

Fibres ≥≥≥≥ 36 µmLl = 273 ±±±±4 µm

Instrument 2:

Fibres ≥≥≥≥ 12 µmLl = 218 ±±±±7 µm

Instrument 1:

Fibres ≥≥≥≥ 5 µmLl = 198 ±±±±4 µm

Page 18: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

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Drawbacks / not yet solved Problems

� General:

� Many NC tests are still "old-fashioned" wet-chemistry methods(time-consuming, difficult to automatise, yield little information)

� No test for characterisation of NC processability available

� Nitrogen Content of NC (Mean Value):

� Existing test methods are complex and error-prone

� Distribution of Nitrogen Content of NC:

� No method for direct determination available

� Is determined indirectly via solubility of NC in solvents

� Polymeric Properties:

� GPC method is not (yet) reproducible enough for routine testing

� Falling sphere viscosity method is not suitable for low-viscosity NC

� Fibre Quality – Agglomerate Content:

� Actual method is not suitable for low agglomerate contents

Page 19: New Standards for Nitrocellulose Testing – STANAG 4178 Ed

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Drawback 1: Assessment of Average Nitrogen Content of NC

� All existing test methods for average N-content are complex + error-prone

� Ferrous Ion Titration (FS/FAS) is reference method, but:

� Many labs have reported problems with this method

� Performance / results of FS/FAS depend strongly on several experimental parameters →→→→ method is not robust

� Not tolerable (and difficult to recognise) systematic

deviations may appear together with excellent precision

� Exactly following the operating procedure as described in the

standards (MIL/ STANAG) does not guarantee correct results !

� For example, STANAG 4178 Ed.2 / MIL-DTL-244B/ECP:

� Allows to use from 50 mL to 125 mL of sulphuric acid

� Does not specify the temperature of the acid (as long as below 25°°°°C)

� Specifies titrant temperature to not exceed 25°°°°C for >30 s and to not

exceed 35°°°°C for >10 s and to not exceed 40°°°°C at all

� However, changes within this range already markedly alter the result !!!

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Drawback 1: Average Nitrogen Content of NC – FAS Method

Adding cold

sulphuric acid to NC

→→→→ no bubbles

→→→→ no "loss of

nitrogen"

Adding 22°°°°C warm

sulphuric acid to NC

→→→→ micro-bubbles of

NO →→→→ "loss of

nitrogen"

12.65

12.71

12.76

12.7812.7812.78

12.7812.78

12.7912.78

12.79

12.62

12.64

12.66

12.68

12.70

12.72

12.74

12.76

12.78

12.80

12.82

Nit

rog

en

Co

nte

nt

[%

]

n = 28

n = 8

50 mL H2SO4 22°°°°Cmax. titration T 30°°°°C

���� N = 12.65%

n = 2 - 3

150 mL H2SO4 0°°°°C

���� N = 12.79%

These effects seen

for NC (bubbles

→→→→ strong sensitivity

on H2SO4 volume

and T as well as

on titration T) are

almost negligible for

KNO3 calibration

standard !!!50 mL H2SO4 0°°°°C

max. titration T 30°°°°C

���� N = 12.71%

50 mL H2SO4 0°°°°Cmax. titration T 20°°°°C

���� N = 12.76%

75 mL H2SO4 0°°°°C

���� N = 12.78%

n = 2

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Drawback 2: No Method for Distribution of Nitrogen Content

9999 10101010 11111111 12121212 13131313 14141414

Nitrogen Content of NC [%]Nitrogen Content of NC [%]Nitrogen Content of NC [%]Nitrogen Content of NC [%]

N-Content 10% – 12.8%

→→→→ Soluble in both Acetone and Ether-Alcohol

N-Content < 9.5%

→→→→ Insoluble in both Acetone and

Ether-Alcohol

N-Content > 13.0%

→ Soluble in Acetone

but insoluble in Ether-Alcohol

� No standardised method for direct determination of the distribution of

nitrogen content of NC (→→→→ quality of nitration) is available

� Solubility of the NC in Ether-Alcohol and Acetone gives only crude indi-

cation regarding N-content distribution but is the only available method

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Summary

� The new standards STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 and MIL-DTL-244B/ECP /

MIL-DTL- 244C provide for the first time in history an internationally accepted set of NC testing methods

� STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 is currently in NATO ratification (11 nations including US, UK and France have already ratified; a total of 14 is needed)

� MIL-DTL-244B/ECP is currently used in US ARMY, NAVY and Air Force;

MIL-DTL-244C will be implemented by US when ARDEC Standardization Group complete the review

� The new test methods are already implemented in many nations

� An international Round Robin Test will be organised to support further implementation of the new methods

� Test methods in these standards are

neither perfect nor complete; furtherwork is necessary to improve the

actual methods as well as to developnew / better tests

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Outlook

� Ratification / approval / implementation

of STANAG 4178 Ed. 2 / MIL-DTL-244C needs to be completed

� Tests which are new in these standards or known to produce problems should be carefully examined and, if

necessary, further improved (e.g. Nitrogen Content, Ion Chromatography,

Gel Permeation Chromatography* and Fibre Length Distribution)

� New / improved test methods should be developed and included:

� Test methods that better characterise the Processability of NC

� Better test methods for Nitrogen Content Distribution* to replace Ether-Alcohol / Acetone Solubility (e.g. chromatographic method)

� New method suitable for low Agglomerate* contents

� Modern spectroscopic methods such as IR / Near IR* / Raman Spectroscopy with multivariate analysis to predict important properties

such as moisture content, nitrogen content, solubility, viscosity, etc.

* Presentations on these issues will be given in the 5th NC Symposium

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Thanks very much for your attention !