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Human resources ingeophysical exploration
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Human resources and geophysical exploration
Chairmen
D. Mabey
u.s. Geological SurveyWashington
Panel members
J.C. Hollister
Colorado School ofMinesU.S.A.
G.D. Garland
University of TorontoCanada
B.P. Dash
Imperial CollegeEng/and
J.M. Brown
United NationsNew York
D.S. Parasnis
Boliden Mining Co.Sweden
Mr. MabeyI am Don Mabey. George Garland and I are cochairmen of
thispanel discussion on human resources in geophysical
exploration.The panel members are J .C. Hollister, B.P. Dash, J.M.
Brown andD.S. Parasnis. George Garland and I will start the
discussion witha few brief introductory remarks. I will speak from
the aspect ofusers of geophysical talent and George will represent
the institu-tions producing geophysical talent. FollOWing this,
each of theother panel members will make brief statements and the
meetingwill then be thrown open for discussion involving the
audience aswell as the panel members.
Dr. Seigel has asked me to discuss the problems encounteredin
obtaining and retaining an adequate geophysical staff toconduct a
program of laboratory and field investigations. Mydirect experience
in this area has been limited to the problemsencountered by the
United States Geological Survey. Althoughthe problems of the USGS
are not typical of many other users ofgeophysical talent, I assume
that the major ones are, to someextent, similar.
Throughout my experience with the Geological Survey as
thesupervisor of scientific programs, the primary limitations on
ourprograms has been the availability of well qualified
professionalpersonnel. Despite a few short-term flllancial pinches,
adequatefunds have generally been available to expand the
geophysicalphase of our program as qUalified personnel become
available to·us. The primary problem is that there is simply not an
adequatesupply of well trained geophysicists available to meet
theexpanding demand and also that considerable competition existsto
divert the available talent into nonexploration activities.Several
things can be done to facilitate the training of
additionalgeophysicists and the continual upgrading of the talent
that isalready employed in geophysical exploration. Employment
ingeophysical exploration should be made as attractive as
possibleso that the people that are adequately trained will
selectexploration geophysics as a career and will stay with it.
Ouroperations should be continually examined to make certain
thatthe most effective use is being made of the talent that is
available.
What can the users of geophysical talent do to increase
thenumber of students that are graduated from the colleges
anduniversities who are qualified and committed to careers
inexploration geophysics? Organizations engaged in geophysical
exploration should try to obtain more publicity for the
profes-sion of geophysics, particularly among young people of
precollegeage. Most young people select a career without. ever
knowingwhat the possibilities are in geophysical exploration.
Numerousopportunities exist to make the public, particularly these
youngpeople, aware of what exploration geophysics is and what
ageophysicist does, but more often than not I think we ignorethese
opportunities. In the U.S. Geological Survey we have foundthat
programs of part·time employment of senior high school andcollege
students is an effective method in interesting people incareers in
geophysics, particularly if we take the little extra effortinvolved
to make this work exciting for them even though theymay be doing
some very routine tasks. Once the student hasbecome interested in
geophysics, financial support, throughfellowships, scholarships,
research contracts and grants is im-portant to the maintenance of
effective geophysics departments.The quality of instruction in
exploration geophysics can beimproved by involVing the members of
college staffs in researchand exploration programs, either on a
consulting basis or on apart·time employment basis, and outstanding
geophysicistsemployed in industry can be encouraged to spend a
portion oftheir careers in the universities in training
geophysicists.
The task of making a career in geophysics attractive to ayoung
scientist is a real challenge. Salaries must be offered thatwill
attract and retain scientists with the talent that most of usseek
in a geophysicist. Some of us work in organizations with payscales
and promotion policies that are geared primarily todisciplines
other than geophysics. It is a fact that a well trainedgeophysicist
can generally obtain a higher starting salary than acomparably
trained geologist; therefore, pay ',cales that are quiteadequate to
prOVide competent geologists are not adequate toprovide the same
competence in geophysicists. The position ofgeophysics and the
geophysicist in the progrllffi of an organizationis of critical
importance in determining how interesting and howchallenging a
position is and will often influence the perfonnanceof the
geophysicist in his position. Although considerableprogress has
been made in this area in the last few years, manycreative
scientists have left geophysical programs simply ):>ecausethe
excitement and interest which can be a part of everyexploration
geophysics program was being denied \:1il:n.. Today,most mining and
groundwater progr.a.ms provide this desired senseof involvement for
the geophysicist.
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Human resources in geophysical exploration
An important factor that has caused many people to
forsakeexploration geophysics is the probability of numerous moves
andchanges of headquarters. Many of these moves seem
ratherpointless to the individuals involved. Many of the
organizationsinvolved in mining geophysics have minimized this
problem andshown that it is possible to dfwelop sound world-wide
ornation-wide programs while keeping the changes of headquartersto
a minimum.
Careful selection of the location for home offices andresearch
centers can ease recruitment problems. The U.S. Geo-logical Survey
has found, for example, that the people interestedin earthquake
research prefer to be headquartered in the SanFrancisco area of
California, while our exploration programs aremore easily staffed
in Denver. I have found in recent years that anincreasing number of
people applying for employment make thelocation of the job a major
consideration. Another importantaspect of personnel management is
the utilization of seniorpersonnel whose training and experience
has often been outdatedby rapid advances in geophysical technology.
We should recognizean obligation to people that have devoted the
most productiveyears of their lives to an organiz~tion. I believe
that it is morallywrong, and in the long run probably economically
unsound, todischarge, or force into early retirement, senior people
andreplace them with recent graduates who may be better trained
orperhaps obtained at a lower salary. Encouraging personnel
tocontinue their education on the job will help solve this
problem.In other situations, these senior employees can be shifted
intopositions where they can continue to be productive in the
latteryears of their careers.
It is also important that the employers of geophysical
talentrealize that an important part of the reward of top
scientists isrecognition by their peers and that recognition for
geophysicistsis commonly achieved through publication in technical
journals.In noncommercial organizations, such as the U.s.
GeologicalSurvey, publishing is usually encouraged, but in some
commercialorganizations it is actually discouraged. This policy
should beexamined by management. In many situations
publicationpolicies can be liberalized without compromising the
competitiveposition of the company. Encouraging attendance at
scientificmeetings, such as the one that we are attending now, can
also beimportant in keeping scientists happy.
In general, the graduates that we have employed from themajor
schools in recent years have been' adequately trained in
thefundamentals necessary to qualify them for productive careers
ingeophysics. It is unfortunate that more staff members
ofgeophysics departments are not more deeply interested andinvolved
in exploration geophysics so that they will instill anenthusiasm
for exploration geophysics in their students. Manyuniversities are
becoming increasingly oriented towards the moreacademic aspects of
geophysics and as a result the students arenot oriented toward
geophysical exploration. On the other hand,universities that have
top exploration geophysicists on their staffseem to turn out people
that are enthused and interested inexploration geophysics. .
I believe that a career in geophysics, both in field
andlaboratory work, can be made attractive to young scientists. It
isa challenge to management as well as educators to interest
youngpeople in careers in geophysics. Once these people have
beentrained, management must realize that top scientific talent can
be
710
recruited and retained only by concerted effort to make the
workinteresting and rewarding both financially and
intellectually.
Dr. GarlandLadies and gentlemen, Mr. Mabey has covered most of
theproblems that one must consider in this problem of
humanresources for the mining geophysics industry and I intend here
tobe very brief, because we have four panelists who can present
thepoints of view of both universities and of the users. The
twopanelists representing the universities, Professor Hollister and
Dr.Dash, come from institutions in which geophysics is recognized
asa discipline in its own right. One of the problems in assessing
theplace of ge.ophysics in universities is that it finds itself in
a greatvariety of homes. In Canada it has been traditional for
geophysicsto be in departments of physics, although in recent years
therehave been separate departments of geophysics and in some
casesit is in a department of geology or even in a department of
miningengineering. But the relation of geophysics to physics has
been avery strong tradition in Canadian universities, and I should
like tomake a few comments from the point of view of one who, in
aphysics department, sees the opportunities presented to
under-graduate students in physics. As Dr. Mabey has said, it
isabsolutely essential that you as users engage in public
relationsand put forth a case to the students. The young graduate
of todayin the field of science is a very sophisticated person, who
islooking for a field that has challenging opportunities before
him.The question of starting salary is normally of secondary
im-portance to this man. The important thing is to convince him
thatthere is a life of real challenge ahead. From our point of view
inthe physics department we see undergraduate students
presentedwith a variety of fields in physics, many of them very
exciting:the study of elementary particles, astrophysics, the study
of thesolid state. Geophysics is simply one of a number of exciting
newfields. Then when we assemble a group of students in a
programthat we think is leading towards a career in geophysics, we
findthat even within this stream there are a great number
ofopportunities presented to the students today, because
environ-mental science is big, it is exciting and it is heavily
supported bygovernments. Even for the students in geophysics, there
are verymany opportunities apart from exploration geophysics as
such.Let us say that the student has decided to go into
explorationgeophysics. You still have another competitor in your
search forpeople and that is the petroleum industry, because the
studentsomewhere has to decide whether he is more interested
inpetroleum exploration or in mining exploration. Of course
youcould argue that to some extent you offer a greater variety
ofproblems, and possibly more opportunity at an earlier level
forindividual initiative, than does the petroleum industry. On
theother hand, the petroleum industry offers several
advantages.
One of the employers of geophysical students which has beenmost
successful in attracting people is Geophysical ServiceIncorporated,
with which I think you are all familiar. They, ofcourse, have
worked very hard at it. I don't know if many peoplehave seen this
book A Cooperative Plan in Geophysical Educationproduced by Dr.
Schrock of M.LT. For many years GSI have hada cooperative program
of taking undergraduate students fromvarious universities in the
United States and Canada, exposingthem to their operations in
Dallas, arranging a training programand employing them for the
summer. There is no question, I
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think, that they have obtained for themselves through this
anextremely good selection of students. I would suggest that
themining geophysics industry has not yet engaged in anything onthe
scale of the GSI program.
I should not like you to feel that the universities, or even
theCanadian government, are completely unaware of this
problem.Those of us who are associated with physics are reading
thesedays this volume, known as The Rose Report. It is the study
ofphysics in Canada, prepared by the Canadian Association
ofPhysicists under contract with the Science Secretariat of the
PrivyCouncil. It is a recommendation of what physicists in
Canada,both in the universities and elsewhere, should be doing.
Onechapter of this volume is devoted to earth science, and I
shouldlike to read one of the recommendations: "The Committee
notesand accepts the statements from mining and petroleum
industriesthat there is a severe shortage of geophysicists. We
recommendthat this can best be met by a moderate healthy growth
ofstudent classes, particularly at the Bachelor level. The
industryitself will have to find ways to make its work interesting
andchallenging to geophysics graduates who now have a wide rangeof
employment opportunities open to them." The problem isstated
clearly to the universities, with the recommendation toseek a
growth in those courses, leading to Bachelor degrees withspecial
emphasis on geophysical exploration.
Dr. DashLadies and gentlemen, I would like to present to you a
briefsummary of the supply and demand of the earth sciencemanpower
of Great Britain. Whether we like it or not, we inBritain today are
dependent on scientists and technologists. Inthe general picture,
the contribution of geophysicists may besmall, but it is certainly
significant.
On the subject of output of geophysical personnel fromBritish
universities, my personal experience lies only withinLondon
University. By and large this could be expanded to theother
universities in the U.K. where geophysics is taught only
atpostgraduate level. Unlike North American universities, we
haveunfortunately no undergraduate courses in geophysics, and
hencethe net turnover at postgraduate level is not as high as one
wouldexpect. The postgraduate course is broadly divided into
threedegree courses, namely Master's degree, Master of Philosophy
andDoctor of Philosophy. For these, we accept geologists,
physicistsand mathematicians. The durations of the M.Sc., M.Phil.
andPh.D. courses are one, two and three calendar years,
respectively.The M.Sc. course is directed towards teaching and
training. Theother two are purely research degrees. The M.Sc.
course consistsof four terms' work. The first term brings the
students up to acommon level - the physicists are taught geology
and thegeologists, mathematical physics. There are also common
coursesin digital data processing, surveying and fundamentals of
elec-tronics. In the second term they are taught the general
principlesof geophysical prospecting. In the third term we tend to
spreadout into the two broad fields of geophysics, that is, applied
andpure, without actually dividing the class into two groups.
Thereason for doing so is to initiate in the students an interest
ineither of the two branches. In the last term, from June
tillSeptember, the students are assigned independent field
orresearch projects of their own choice. Invariably, a person
keenon academic geophysics works on laboratory or theoretical
Mabey and Garland
problems; an applied geophysicist is sent out to industry to
gainexperience in field problems. On completion of the course,
theyare required to write a report or a thesis, and are then
subjectedto written and oral examinations.
Unfortunately at the present stage I have no completestatistics
of the total output of geophysicists from the U.K., withthe
exception of Imperial College. The following table shows theoutput
of geophysicists from Imperial College during the lasteight
years.
Year Ph.D. M.Sc. D.Le.*
1959 2 4 151960 2 4 171961 1 4 151962 2 4 131963 2 3 51964 1
61965 2 8 151966 3 131967 2 18
*Until 1965 M.Sc. was a two-year course. The postgraduate
Diploma ofImperial College (D.LC.) was a one-year course.
The total number of Ph.D.s awarded in geophysics is not
known.However, in the last 15 years there have been 674 Ph.D.
awards inthe U.K. in the geological sciences, which includes earth
science,geology, geophysics and geochemistry.
Fortunately during the past few years the demand
forgeophysicists has always exceeded the supply, the
variouschannels of employment being with industry, government
organi-zations and universities. In numerical terms, out of the
above 674Ph.D.s, 26% joined the Government Geological Survey, 27%
wentinto industry, 22% stayed on at university, 18% were lost in
the'brain-drain', and the remaining 7% were overseas sWdents
whoreturned home after completing their studies.
Geophysicistsaccounted for only 2% of the 22:% who stayed on at
university. Itis logical to assume that most elect to work in
industry, whereobviously they expect higher salaries. To meet the
increasingdemand from industry it is perhaps possible to train
moregeophysicists each year. Yet considering the number who stay
onto teach, it is certainly insufficient for the university to make
anyexpansion in teaching.
Obviously the figures in this survey can not claim to be
exact,but it is difficult to see how they can be so far out as to
vitiatethe conclusions drawn. .
Another serious problem is the 'brain-drain'. For the past
fewyears Imperial College has been losing on average 60% of
itsgeophysicists to industry in North America. The following
tablewill show the trend:
Year % lost to North America
1962 701963 251964 50*1965 631966 501967 80*
*Also to Australia.
711
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Human resources in geophysical exploration
Admittedly the answer to the short supply of trainedpersonnel
depends on the growth of the .teaching department
ofthe':university. The university can provide teachers by
enlargingthe student-teacher ratio, but can not persuade students
to studyunless sufficient funds are available for their
maintenance.Furthermore, the training and research program in
geophysics cannot be carried out without ample funds. The only
fund-givingauthority in Britain is the Natural Environment Research
Council.The Geophysics Department of Imperial College gets a
maximumof six studentships a year. In addition there are two
studentshipsfrom the industry. A total of eight in one year is
certainlyinsufficien t when one envisages a turnover of 20 or more
peryear. As far as the teaching and training program is concerned
thefunds available fall very much below the mark. Geophysical
fieldtraining is expensive as a result of costly equipment basic to
anytrip. How then is it possible to bridge this gap? My
seriouscontention is that since industry is taking most of our
students,they should help us in enlarging our efficiency.
Assistance couldtake the form of studentships, research grants and
even donationof equipment. This type of assistance from industry is
notunknown in the U.S.A. Oil companies are known to cooperatewith
universities, giving them modem expensive geophysicalinstruments
and recurrent monetary grants. We occasionally getsimilar gifts of
instruments from the few oil companies in theU.K. With a great deal
of perseverence they can be brought intosome sort of working order,
but regrettably much time on fieldtrips is spent in repairing these
instruments.
We are pleased to see that there is a good deal of
cooperation,in the form of exchange of students, through personal
contactsbetween individual American, Canadian and British
universities. Itis most unfortunate that while North American
industries takethe maximum number of qualified geophysicists from
GreatBritain, they have not as yet cooperated with British
universitieson the same basis as with American universities, a
policy which isou tlined above. There is hardly any instance where
we havereceived anything in return, except perhaps in the form
ofsummer joqs. This is, however, meagre return for what they
drawfrom us. I sincerely feel that they should establish a
definitenumber of studentships in various universities, from which
theycan draw their manpower, instead of haVing their
geophysiciststrai,ned at our expense,both financially and socially.
Withadditional funds from them we could train more
studentsproperly, thus benefitting both the university and the
respectiveindustries.
Mr. BrownThe United Nations has difficulty in obtaining
geophysicists forits mineral exploration programs. The objectives
of these projectsrequire experienced men with a sufficiently strong
background ingeology to be able to orient their work to the
location of ore.Too often we find that the geophysicist whose basic
training hasbeen that of a physicist, has difficulty in recognizing
thegeological objectives. To overcome this the United Nations
triesto station on a regional basis in the developing areas
experiencedgeophysicists who have a strong geological background,
andemploy younger men to undertake the actual' geophysical
fieldoperations. This is a compromise but at the moment it appears
tobe the best we can do with the people who are available to
us.
With respect to the formal training of geophysicists, I
think
712
that their curriculum should include more reading of geologythan
would appear to be included at present - not at the expenseof
training in mathematics and physics but in addition to this.This
type of training is, of course, for those who wish to beengaged in
a search for raw materials rather than on purelyacademic pursuits.
(I have found it possible for geophysicists todiscuss applied
geophysics at length and never mention the word'geology'.)
This lack of geological experience is reflected in that
whenlooking for managers of exploration programs the United
Nationsonly rarely considers a geophysicist for such a post. This
is anarrow but functional point of view. Usually geophysicists
workwithin the framework of an operation designed by a geologist
ormining engineer. This is unfortunate - too few geologists
andmining engineers appreciate what could be done by the
intelligentapplication of geophysical techniques.
The difficulty in obtaining suitably experienced and orientat-ed
geophysicists could perhaps be overcome, in part, by institu-tions
such as the universities seconding their people to theUnited
Nations. This would render assistance to the developingcountries
and at the same time the individual would gainexperience which
would be to his advantage.
The United Nations is increasingly making use of
academicprofessionals to examine the conduct of operations and to
adviseon the application of techniques or the introduction of
newtechniques in mineral exploration.
Dr. HollisterLadies and gentlemen, fellow geophysicists. As I
remarked tosome of my colleagues this morning, we have been in
business atthe same stand for a great many years, hence it might be
properto make a few remarks on the background of geophysics at
theColorado School of Mines. I am well aware of the problems
thatthe preceding speakers have enunciated, such as the difficulty
ofobtaining young people and interesting them in
geophysics,particularly exploration geophysics. Geophysics as first
taught inthe United States, that is, applied geophysics, was a
course byC.A. Heiland in 1926 on the Torsion Balance at the
ColoradoSchool of Mines. Between that time and 1950 graduates at
theSchool got degrees in geology with what we call
geophysicsoptions, and they numbered some 200. In 1950 the degree
ofGeophysical Engineer was established at the School and about400
young men left School with that particular degree. We havejust made
a degree change at the School and we are now offeringthe four-year
B.S. in geophysics and the first graduates carryingthat degree will
be the class of 1970. The engineering degree willrequire a fifth
year.
Regarding our curriculum, I'll just read a few of the
roughpercentages required in the various disciplines. Some 15 per
centof the young man's effort is in the humanities, roughly 40
percent is in physics, mathematics and chemistry. We try to
carryour physics through electric circuits, electronics and
extendedmedia. Mathematics goes through potential theory,
complexvariables and operational calculus. Chemistry progresses
throughphysical chemistry. It seems rather surprising to people in
thepetroleum industry that we require physical chemistry, but
Idon't think it comes as a surprise to the mining people that
wefeel this is important. Basic engineering, 9 per cent,
extendingthrough mechanics. Geology, through stratigraphy and
sedimenta-
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tion, accounts for 17 per cent. In geophysics,
explorationgeophysics primarily, (although the lads have a course
in roundearth physics), some 13 per cent. The rest is made up of
freeelectives, plus physical education and military studies for the
firsttwo years. These details are naturally of interest only
toindividuals in a university or a department within a college
whoare involved in the curriculum. We do feel that the
importantthing is, since the man's education really begins after
his formalacademic experience, to teach the boys how to learn and
how tothink. We try to give them a basis in root principles, root
ideasrather than the how to do it of today; it's the how to
understandit of tomorrow that counts.
We have known the generosity of the various
industrialorganizations, of our own legislative committee of the
state, andcertain federal facilities who have helped us build our
equipmentand apparatuS" inventory to something rather in excess of
half amillion dollars.
We have laboratory space of 6500 square feet and office
andclassroom space of 5000 square feet. The student population
inthe department numbers approximately 29 juniors, 27 seniorsand 35
graduate students, about half of whom are Ph.D.candidates. Roughly
40 per cent of the undergraduates, or thosegraduating with the
engineering degree, will go into exploration. Imust say that the
majority of these do go into exploration forpetroleum simply
because the demand is terrific and I'm sorry tosay the starting
salaries are quite exaggerated. When an averageyoung man after four
years is offered 850 bucks a month it seemsa little out of order.
We do our level best at every suitableopportunity to point out to
the boys that if they work hard for along time they may begin to
earn that salary and not to go awaythinking they are worth it. Some
40 per cent of the boys go on tograduate school and we often
recommend that they go elsewhereto get a different point of view
for their graduate work, althoughsome of them still insist on
staying on at Mines. The remaining 20per cent go into the armed
services.
Our teaching staff is presently 7 1/2 full-time people. I amsure
that Dr. J .E. White of Marathon Oil and SEG's new presidentwould
not like to be referred to as half a man - he is certainlynot. But
he does come out to the school and gives us the benefitof his
industrial experience. I was quite surprised when I wasonce asked
how much of the experience of the staff is inthe academic field and
how much perhaps in industry andgovernment. So I made a quick
calculation and found that wehave 78 man years in teaching and 78
man years in industrial andgovernmental experience. For 7 people,
or 7 1/2 people, thatmakes 20 man years apiece. The majority of
those are made upby two colleagues of my own age and myself. The
other fellowsare young, active, full of what it takes.
Now the cost of operating any organization is very high.The cost
of education is probably one of the most rapidly risingin any field
I know. It is an inflationary business. Some years agoCollege Life
Insurance Company made estimates of the increasedcosts over the
years beginning with 1950 through 1980. At thetime it was put out
we had a substantiated history to 1960. As of'67 the cost per year
is something like $1750 per student for theinstitutional operation.
Add the cost of living of $1200 and wehave roughly $11,800
four-year cost per student. As I look at thechart, it shows that
the cost as indicated is $12,000 so I thinkthat their
statisticians, or prophets, are very accurate.
Mabey and Garland
How do we pay for this? The student, or few students, canafford
that much, that is $3000 per year throughout the fouryear period.
Much of that money must come from the institutionitself and
certainly at the Colorado School of Mines at least twothirds of the
out-of-state student's institutional costs have beenpaid for by the
State of Colorado. The in-state student paysperhaps a tenth of that
cost.
How can we increase the number of young men entering theearth
sciences? We make an effort to travel to the high schools,and have
a continuing program of introduction of the severaldisciplines
within the minerals field that the School of Mines isactive in. We
invite groups of high school students from not justthe neighboring
cities but from all over the state to come to theSchool and spend
as much time as they can there. We can takethem around and
introduce them to various departments. We tryto show them what we
do and interest them, naturally, in ourdepartment, in geophysics.
If a man likes math, physics and theoutdoors he's ideal for a
career in exploration geophysics.
The Society of Exploration Geophysicists, as a good many ofus I
think know, has produced what is called Careers inGeophysics. A new
edition of that is coming out today, or verysoon. It is aimed not
so much at the high school student as atthe college student who as
yet has not decided his ultimateprofessional discipline. I think
the dissemination of information,both for the young college man and
for the high school student,should be encouraged.
One final remark - the idea of continuing education,
ofmaintaining a competence among our own profession by
furthereducation and a somewhat formal education is an excellent
idea.The Seminar that Stan Ward is going to run, I believe in
thespring, at the University of California, and the Data
ProcessingCourse, a short course that we at Mines have been giving
for thelast several years, are examples of the sort of
continuingedification that I certainly feel is vital to our
profession.
Sorry if I have run over my time, gentlemen. It is
anoccupational malady. I thank you.
Dr. ParasnisLadies and gentlemen, at this stage of the
discussion I would liketo make a few preliminary remarks. I am
speaking with abackground of experience in Sweden but perhaps this
would beof interest to other countries where conditions are
similar, likeCanada. I mean similar in connection with prospecting.
Thepeople we need in our exploration department, as far
asgeophysics is concerned, could be divided here in two
differenttypes. One is the field operator, the other is the
geophysicist.Now, the situation at present in Sweden is that we
have a dearthof geophysically trained people. The consequence is
that we haveto train people ourselves. In the case of field
operators, we atBoliden Mines recruit people directly out of
school, that is, thosewho have gone through basic school. They come
out of schoolabout 16 or 17 years of age and we train them by
special.coursesand tests and so on. These people have sufficient
background andsufficient schooling, and easily pick up such things
as observationtechnique, maintenance of instruments, minor repairs
toinstruments and so on.
Our real need in the mining industry is perhaps for the classof
people that must be hired to supervise the field operators andthis
is the geophysical interpreter. The data the operators are
713
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Human resources in geophysical exploration
getting must be accurate and in many cases, of course,
thedata-collection stage must be supervised closely to get
everythingstraight. It is here that we feel the lack of
sufficiently trainedpeople.
I would say that what we really need are geophysicists on
theBachelor level, that is, with a degree corresponding to a B.S.
orB.Sc. I find it very hard to imagine that the mining industry,
forinstance, could absorb geophysics Ph.D.s at a significantly
higherrate than it is doing at present. And in this respect I think
thatthe program which Professor Hollister outlined here seems to be
avery good program that meets the needs of the mining industryand
perhaps also of the oil industry.
Now, in respect of the subjects covered in such a program,
Ithink that this program is near-ideal for our needs. Inclusion
ofelectrochemistry is a happy inclusion since this is a subject
whichis becoming important for mining geophysics. Questions like
theinterpretation of SP and IP anomalies imply a fair knowledge
ofelectrochemistry. But I also think that geophysics students at
thebachelor level should have a good basic training in
electronics.
The situation in Sweden, as far as the construction ofelectronic
instruments in geophysics is concerned, is that we have
employed a number of electronic engineers to construct
ourequipment or to modify equipment bought from
commercialmanufacturers. I might add that equipment bought
ready-madeusually falls far short of our requirements of
portability, ease ofoperation, weight, size, water-proofness, etc.
However, it isdifficult to keep all electronic engineers satisfied
in the sense ofgiving them challenging work all the time (from the
electronicpoint of view) so that after a time some tend to leave to
seek jobsin a proper electronic industry like TV. If we had a
geophysicallytrained bachelor who has undergone courses in basic
electronics,he could also be used for the construction of simple
equipment,for servicing it and so on, whenever there is temporary
shortageof specialists.
This, I hope, will give you a general idea of the sort of
peoplewe need. Concerning Dr. Dash's remark that industry is
notpaying anything for the universities to produce geophysicists,
thisis not the whole story because, of course, industry is paying
itsshare in taxes. In Sweden, where all university training
isstate-managed, industry taxes imply a significant contribution
toall education. Industry also employs summer trainees andappren
tices.
DiscussionDr. Garland. Thank you Dr. Parasnis.
The problem is obviously a very com-plicated one. Dr. Dash has
pointed outthat an institution in one country may beproducing a
large number of people whogo to work in a different country;
un-fortunately the taxes paid by theiremployer may not come back to
theinstitute which is training the men. Mr.Brown has asked for a
30-year-old physi-cist with 20 years of experience in geo-logy. Dr.
Hollister has told of some of theproblems his institute has in both
financ-ing the program of education and con-tinuing to attract
people. I think at thispoint it would be appropriate to open
themeeting to comments on any phase ofthis subject from anyone in
the audience.
Dr. K. C Dunham, Institute of Geo-logical Sciences, London. Mr.
Chairman, Ithink this must be a unique discussion. Itis probably
the first time that the prob-lem of the shortage of geophysicists
hasbeen discussed internationally.
I have one or two rather widelydifferent points. The first one
arises fromDr. Tuzo Wilson's remarks. Like him, Ifeel strongly that
geophysics is nowreaching a very exciting stage, especiallyon what
you might call the academic, orthe purely scientific side. It is
goingthrough a period of breakthrough whichis not unlike what
happened to otherbranches of science some time back. Now
714
ever since the end of World War II itseemed to .me that the most
glamorousvariety of science has been nuclearphysics. It has grown
up and the nuclearphysicist has continued to work either
inuniversities or in the few governmentestablishments which can
afford the veryexpensive machines. The man trained innuclear
physics, certainly in our experi-ence in the United Kingdom, has
had verylittle impact on industry. Of course,nothing goes on
forever and I don't knowwhether Professor Garland, for
example,would agree with me in saying that thereis a suspicion that
the end of the greatdevelopment in nuclear physics is in sight.One
of my rather cynical friends in thehigher reaches of this subject
remarked tome the other day that if they could solveone more
equation the whole thing willbe finished. I don't know which
equationhe was referring to. It does look to us inBritain as though
there is going to be abig shift in emphasis in physics. This
ispartly being taken up in solid state work,but I wonder whether
there is not anopportunity to be exploitive in favour ofgeophysics.
I would be most interested tohear comments on how this appears
toyou in other countries.
The second point concerns the back-ground of people who are
barely able tobecome effective geophysicists. Lookingat the British
people, we do not produceenough youngsters who are well
qualified
in mathematics and who will be interest-ed to go into. the
problem of physics. Orindeed enough people well qualified
inmathematics who will go into geology,because increasingly the use
of thesemore sophisticated statistical techniquesbecomes necessary
on the geological sideas well as the geophysical. I am not surethat
one of the problems is not to dosomething about raising the
standard ofmathematics in the high schools. I thinkit has risen to
some extent since WorldWar II, but I am sure that it has not
risensufficiently yet.
Speaking finally as an employer ofgeophysicists, like Dr. Mabey,
I am notable to obtain sufficient men with theright qualifications
and training, and thisof course, is due partly to our consider-able
exports to this side of the Atlantic.The fact does remain that as
far as oursmall country is concerned, we need toproduce more
geophysicists. I believe inurging this strongly upon our
universitygrants committee, but I think it is unlike-ly they will
be willing to encourage thegrowth of geophysics in Britain at a
timewhen they are not going to be veryencouraging to the
universities in general.
Dr. Garland. If I could make onecomment in reply to Dr. Dunham,
Ishould like to point out an article in theNew Scientist, December
1966, entitled"Crucial Decade for Basic Science". Itpoints out the
tremendously rapidly in-
-
creasing cost of basic research in nuclearphysics and space
research, and asks"ought the scientists to allow themselvesto be
carried away by their own enthu-siasms to the detriment of
underprivileg-ed humanity which needs their brains? ".The author is
urging a return to, if youwill pardon the expression,
'usefulscience', with perhaps less emphasis onthe very expensive
aspect of basic re-search.
Dr. S.A. Vincenz, St. Louis Univer-sity. I am very much
interested in Dr.Dash's remarks about the brain-drainfrom the
United Kingdom. I would justlike to make a few remarks about one
ofthe American schools, since I am one ofthe current exports from
the U.K. We atSt. Louis University, in training explora-tion
geophysicists in the undergraduateschool, have experienced
deterioration inthe number of B.S.s that have beenproduced. On the
other hand, the numberof graduate students is increasing all
thetime. Since I have been at St. Louis theaverage number of
undergraduates hasbeen about three every year. We have fiveseniors
this year. Two years ago we had18 graduate students. Of course,
theywere not all solid-earth geophysicists, halfof them being
meteorologists. This year Ithink we have about 60, most of them
arePh.D. students, working in one or anotherfederally supported
research project. Iwould say about 50% or more are fromoutside of
the United States: from Arabcoun tries, from India, from
LatinAmerica, and most of them remain in theUnited States. They get
jobs, usually inthe oil industry, or in the universities,very few
of them with the mining in-dustry. Professor Garland has
mentionedthat it is the challenge that is veryimportant, and that
appeals to thestudent. He does not want to makemoney really. Of
course he does want toget a good job. He is really interested
indoing research to open new vistas. I thinkthat the mining
industry, or any industry,interested in geophysics should try
torealize that it must open up some pos-sibilities for these
students to use theirbrains. In this sense, Dr. Dash's remarks,
Ithink, are very good.
Dr. EM McNatt, Standard Oil Com-pany, New Jersey. I would first
like tomake a comment on the question of howto attract people into
geophysics, and
second to ask a question. I think Mr.Brown presents a very real
and difficultproblem, because a geophysicist is expect-ed to be a
physicist and a geologist, amathematician, and sometimes a
chemist.If I were a young man, I think this wouldbe a little
discouraging because anyoneof these fields is difficult enough in
itself.It is a very real attitude that a geologist isexpected to be
a geologist, but a geo-physicist is expected to be all things to
allpeople, and I think this is a difficultsituation. What is the
magnitude of theproblem we are talking about? Howmany geophysicists
are needed? Doesanyone have the answer to that?
Dr. Hollister. May I reply in answer tothat? An estimate was
made about a yearago by one of the major oil companies fortheir
needs. They said, "We will be ableto hire one of the ten
geophysicists thatwe will need who is trained in geophysics.We will
get one more, perhaps, frommathematics or physics, we will get
onemore from the engineering (electricalengineering) area. The rest
will comelargely from geology and have to betrained by us in
geophysics".
This is perhaps an exaggerated pointof view. I realize that each
one of our ladswho are undergraduates has at least fouror five
offers. In other words, perhaps weare training abou t one fifth of
thenumber of geophysicists that are neededto carry on a continuity
of personnelwithin an organization. But, I must saythis, that part
of this shortage is due tothe shortsightedness of management of
afew companies, who indulged one time inthe midfifties and early
sixties in awholesale termination of explorationpersonnel without
making the effort ofshifting them from one area to another intheir
own organization. Because of thefew, the whole industry is badly in
neednow of personnel. Young men capable ofbeing good
explorationists are capable ofgetting good scientific positions in
otherfields, and they were certainly discourag-ed by the fact I
mentioned.
Mr. J. Affleck, Gulf Oil Corporation,Pittsburgh. I am one of the
members ofthe brain-drain if you can call it that.Professor
Hollister mentioned what theoil industry did in the fifties. I
think ourindustry learned a lesson from this whole-sale layoff. I
myself doubt it would
Mabey and Garland
happen again, because I am sure wewould have to agree that we
find our-selves with a gap in our age group - thereis a big hole.
We have people elderly, suchas myself, and then kids coming
along,and we don't have any replacements inthe next echelon. So I
think we areconscious of that and we are not verylikely to make
that mistake again. Theother point that you made was theshortage of
geophysicists. We think thatthe supply is about 10 % of the
demandright now in the oil industry. We havestarted a training
program in which weare picking up engineers, mathematiciansand
others and we are doing the educa-tion to make geophysicists of
theseothers. How successful we will be I don'tknow.
A last comment on Dr. Dash's re-marks is perhaps that there is a
law calledThe Law of Supply and Demand and thereason for the
brain-drain is becausepeople like money. They come to thisside
because they are rewarded for en-deavour. But it isn't one way,
because wesend geophysicists and geologists back.Some of us at
least are trying some oiland gas in the North Sea, as one
example.It is going to help the industry; it is goingto help the
world.
Dr. Garland. I should like to pointout that Dr. Hollister and
Mr. Affleck, incommenting on the demand for geo-physicists, have
used figures from the oilindustry, not from the mining industry,and
I think this is typical of the situation.The oil industry has been
very muchmore articulate about their needs. Theyhave maintained
closer liaison with theuniversities. We do not even know whatthe
real needs of the mining industry are.
Dr. Parasnis. I don't think I have seenany statistics concerning
the needs of themining industry in the world as a whole,but a few
years ago we made statistics atBoliden regarding the needs of
miningindustry in Sweden. At that time weconsidered that every
major mining com-pany ought to have at least two geophysi-cists
and, on this basis, we have calculatedthat the needs of Sweden
would besatisified by approximately 30 geo-physicists.
Dr. Dunham. Is it possible for someorganizations to collect this
information,for example, the Society of Exploration
715
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Human resources in geophysical exploration
Geophysicists? It did seem to me thatthe AGI did a very useful
job as faras it went in finding out what thestatistics of
employment in geology andgeophysics were in general. I am not
amember of SEG. I'm just asking anyonewho knows about it whether
this ispossible.
Professor Hollister. Certainly, I thinkthe SEG, particularly
through theirMining Committee, of which I believeRalph Holmer is
currently the head,would be not only interested, but willingto
help. The Society, I am convinced, willgladly put out any of the
funds necessaryto make such a survey. Regarding Mr.Affleck's
remarks, I was not referring toGulfs estimate of its needs, but
actuallyPan American's, and it came out identic-ally. Apparently
the oil companies havespent some time doing exactly the jobthat
perhaps the SEG could do for themining industry. Perhaps some of
thelarger companies might pool their re-sources both in Canada and
the U.S. tocarry forth such a survey. I will be veryhappy to ask
Ralph Holmer if SEG canhelp.
Dr. Dunham I don't know, sir,to what extent that covers Europe,
and ofcourse it is almost certain that it doesn'tcover the Eastern
world, but at least thiswould be an important start. I thinkperhaps
that some of us in Europe mighttry to do something from that
end.
Mr. Jon Baird, Seigel Associates,Toronto. It appears to me that
this so-called 'shortage' of 'geophysicists withinthe Canadian
mining industry can't betoo acute, or we would have heardsomething
from some Canadian miningcompany already. We would have hadsome of
these statistics prepared. How-ever, presuming that there is a
shortage, itis not surprising to me that there is one,because I
really don't feel that we aregearing ourselves towards producing
ex-ploration mining geophysicists. There hasbeen very little
cooperation between thecompanies and the universities. It strikesme
that we have one role in this business,and that is to find mines.
When I thinkback to my university career, whichended not too long
ago, this was neverreally impressed upon me. I took geologycourses
and I took physics courses, and Itook some geophysics courses, but
when Ithink back, we should have had a 'beer
716
and bull' session once a week on mines inCanada, or in the
world. As has beenpointed out, an exploration geophysicistrequires
certain talents and certain abili-ties, which can only be brought
to thefore by a discussion on a common goal,not learning magnetics
or paleontology oranything else. It seems to me that ifCanadian
youth were pre'sented with theidea of going out and finding mines
theywould grasp it. I think so many Canadiansfeel as I do, that our
natural resources area great part of the future, that it can
bepresented in such a way that people willbecome interested. But I
don't thinkCanadian mining companies or univer-sities are
interested in producing explora-tion geophysicists.
Dr. Garland. Thank you Mr. Baird.That is a very interesting
comment fromone who found a mine in spite of hiseducation. But I
think that there is apoint that Mr. Baird and Dr. Parasnis
haveemphasized, of the need for people at theBachelor's level. In
the departments ofpure science in the university there istremendous
pressure for the goodstudents to go on to graduate work. Ithink
myself that one way of filling theneed is to encourage the
faculties ofengineering to develop their courses inexploration. In
engineering you will havestudents that have a professional
interestand a very definite goal, and who do wantto go out at the
Bachelor level and do thiskind of work, yet in Canada we have
onlyone university in which there is consider-able emphasis on
geophysics in the En-gineering faculty.
Professor Hollister. I might commentthat we are an engineering
school andcertainly we will welcome all the youngmen from Canada to
come to theColorado School of Mines.
Prof W Slawson, Dept. of Geo-physics, University of British
Columbia.We have at our university, five streamsthrough which a
student may obtain aBachelor's degree with some connectionwith
geophysics. Two of these streams arewithin the Faculty of Applied
Science,and three are in the Faculty of Science.Two of the three in
the Faculty ofScience prepare the students primarily forgraduate
work. These are what we callour honour programs. These students
dogo on to graduate work, and they arestimulated to graduate work
by the
breakthrough Dr. Dunham was talkingabout. They are interested in
the pictureof the earth as a whole and these studentsin the honour
program seem to havevery little interest in exploration.
Thestudents who go through the otherstreams in the Faculty of
Science are inthe majors program. It is not equivalentto the majors
program as known in theUnited States, but it does prepare
thestudents for the exploration industry. Wehave had the programs
in existence foronly three years, and last year was thefirst year
we turned out very manygraduates. In the total five streams Ithink
we had about a dozen students, andthere will be about the same this
year. Inthe majors program, which consisted ofsix to eight students
last year, most ofthese did end up eventually in explora-tion.
Unfortunately for the mining in-dustry, many of them were lured
toCalgary by the oil industry. Dr. Mabeysuggested summer employment
as in-teresting students into the fields of geo-physics. Several
years ago, the oil com-panies came to us on one of
theirrecruiting'trips and they very graciouslytook several of us
out to lunch and theyasked, "Why aren't we getting ourstudents into
geophysics? " We said, "Thetrouble is that our students come
backfrom the summer jug hustling on theprairies and say that oil
geophysics is notfor me". The oil companies asked, "Whatcan we do
about this?" and we said,"Well, get these students into Calgary,
letthem see your interpretation offices, letthem see what goes on
in the inside of thecompany and not on the fringes." Thestudents
have been doing just this, theyhave been working in the office in
Cal-gary, and come the spring when theygraduate they go back to
work in Calgary.
T he mining industry in BritishColumbia has gone to almost the
otherextreme. First of all they don't com-municate with us at the
university verymuch. The students that come back froma summer in
the field say, "I went towork in June and I was handed tenthousand
dollars worth of IP equipmentwhich I had never seen before and
Ididn't really know anything about, but Iwas a college student, so
therefore I wasexpected to know everything about it andthey said to
go forth and use this equip-ment." And so they were frustrated
bybeing given too much all at once. If they
-
had, instead of working on their own,been able to work with
somebody whohad some experience, I think they wouldhave ended up in
a much different posi-tion.
I have been polling our students that Ifmd around the corridors
here, as to howour programs have prepared them withwhat they need
when they get out intoindustry. The comment which I havereceived
is, "Let's drop some of thegeology and put more mathematics
intoyour programs. Not the theoreticalmathematics such as they get
in themathematics department of our Univer-sity, but applied
mathematics, usefulmathematics such as the kind whichinvolves time
series analysis and so on."
Mr. Baird. My question is that if youare trying to recruit
somebody to go andfmd a mine, why don't you teach him inthe first
year the most practical parts ofactual mine-fmding? I don't mean
howto push buttons on an IP unit, but thefact that IP is used in
mineral explora-tion. The fact that EM is used. I quiteagree with
the theoretical approach, it isvery important, but as you said it
is onlyin fourth year that you really find outthat things like IP
or EM exist. You mayhave spent a couple of summers doingmineral
exploration using a given machinewhich has been presented to you
and youlearn to use on your own, but you don'tsee the over-all
spectrum of how minesare found.
Mr. Brown. May I make a remarkhere? In discussions with the
UnitedNations teams allover the world involvedin exploration there
is a general belief.that there are very, very few
geophysicistscapable of deciding answers through geo-physics. In
the younger techniques thereis a lack of philosophy with respect
tofmding exploitable materials on the partof geophysicists.
Prof D.H Hall, Dept. of Geology,University of Manitoba. I would
like tomake one remark about a very fruitfulcontact that was made
between industryand universities in Canada. Two or threeyears ago
the Society of ExplorationGeophysicists held a week-long seminarto
which they invited geophysics profes-sors and showed us· completely
throughall phases of their work and invited usinto the secret
rooms. Everything wasopened up beautifully and dUring that
conference we had a discussion about thevery problem we are
talking about today.One of the results of that was a programthat
has been carried out by at least oneof the companies, of taking
students in towork during the summer and providingthem with
information and material forresearch. This has been very beneficial
forus and very good for the industry too.Perhaps people on the
panel can tell us ofother examples where something like thismight
be done again.
I think one of the problems is gettingdown to the high school
students. One ofthe things we have found is that studentscome to
the university with no feelingthat exploration or even study of
theearth is an important part of science.They don't come realizing
that this is anexciting area of human life. In Denverthere is an
excellent program in theschools for teaching earth sciences andsome
parts of the book are almost asgood as some of the things we see in
theuniversity text books. I would like to askDr. Hollister if there
has been any appre-ciable impact on the high school popula-tion in
the United States from the highschools earth sciences courses.
Dr. Hollister. I think it is a bit tooearly to judge the full
impact. The organi-zation I think you are referring to wascommenced
by the AGI in Boulder. Theyproduce an excellent volume for
thesecondary schools, which is broader thanexploration geophysics.
There is a sectionon physics, chemistry, applied geophysicsand
solid earth pure geophysics. I thinkthat in a very few years it
will have a largeimpact on young people and give themthe idea of
the excitement of the study ofthe earth. One of the difficulties
now isthat the secondary school teachers whoare involved with this
program are havingtheir troubles in getting the programunder
way.
Dr. Mabey. I would like to raise onequestion here. A number of
the mll-joruniversities in the United States who haverather large
geology departments do nothave well qualified teachers in
geo-physical exploration. I know some ofthese are very actively
recruiting now. Isthe shortage of people to teach geo-physics at
the university level a majorproblem in increasing the supply
ofpeople graduated from the universitieswho are interested and
qualified to work
Mabey and Garland
in the field of exploration geophysics?Do you have any ideas on
that ProfessorHollister?
Dr. Hollister. I would certainly saythat the universities and
colleges have adifficult time in interesting people inteaching.
Often we will find a man who isa first-rate geophysicist in
explorationwho really feels he is incapable of being ateacher. On
the other hand,Jwe are verydelighted when we can interest
someonefrom industry to come to the schools.The demand is steady
and unfIlled forteachers of geophysics in universities. Ihave
letters weekly asking if we don'tknow of a young man who wants to
teachand it is very difficult to find someone.
Dr. Vincenz. There are psychologicalfactors which we should take
into ac-count. I think sometimes we are forget-ting there is a
prob~em of temperamentand a problem of fashion. Some studentsare
temperamentally suited to be explora-tionists, and the right moment
to catchthem is when they have just got their B.S.and they are not
married to any partic-ular field. But the moment they havepassed
that temperamental period of theirlives they settle and don't want
to leave.It was mentioned here that studentscomplain that they
haven't had enoughapplied mathematics. This is absolutelytrue. I
have a student who is proceedingto a Ph.D. degree who hasn't yet
decidedwhat he wants to do. I suggested to himto go into the field
of instrumentation.He said that he would like to do sometheoretical
work.
Dr. H. Rychborst, Dept. of Energy,Mines and Resources, Ottawa. I
wouldlike to point out the situation in theNetherlands. I have been
here for about 6months. We have four universities pro-ducing about
14 or 15 geologists orengineers a year, 70% of them going toforeign
countries. The government doesnot see this as a brain-drain, they
see it asa healthy feature. We have dropped geolo-gy in all of our
courses and addedmathematics and physics. The situationis that as
long as we cannot see what theindustry demands will be for the next
tenyears, since it takes at least ten years toeducate a Ph.D., we
can't solve theproblem of shortages in geologists orgeophysicists
or engineers.
Dr. Parasnis. I should like to make a
717
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Human resources in geophysical exploration
comment concerning the extent ofmathematics that exploration
geophysi-cists should have in their training. Profes-sor Hollister
has sketched a course inwhich the students are to learn up
todifferential and integral calculus. Thisknowledge is
indispensable. However,concerning subjects such as
informationtheory, filter theory, Fourier transforms,etc., I would
say that in routine inter-pretations in mining exploration we donot
as a rule require this high level ofmathematics, because most
routine deci-sions we make concern the placing ofdrill holes on the
basis of clearly definedanomalies. On the other hand, I thinkthat
the mathematics and physics trainingof geologists who are handling
geo-physical data is far behind the times. Inthe first place, they
have no idea abouthow to manipulate physical ideas andphysical
magnitudes and secondly, theyare usually incompetent to treat the
dataquantitatively because their mathematicsare insufficient.
Geologists ought to bedefinitely more conversant with physicsand
mathematics than they are.
Subjects such as information theory,Fourier transforms, etc.,
have their placein advanced interpretation, also in
mininggeophysics, but I believe that the type ofmathematical
training needed for makingroutine decisions by exploration
geo-physicists is the sort of training necessary,say, for solving
problems such as those inthe book by Eve and Keys.
Dr. J.M. Harrison, Dept. of Energy,Mines and Resources, Ottawa.
Thereare two points I would like to make,one of which is an
emphasis of whathas been said earlier by Professor Hollisterand
Professor Vincenz that explorationgeophysics, or geology, or
explorationearth science is a state of mind asmuch as anything
else. Mr. Baird isextremely fortunate that he has thatparticular
state of mind that he enjoysmine-finding. I know lots of
earthscientists who are making substantial con-tributions who
couldn't care less aboutfinding mines, nevertheless the work theydo
is important towards that end andcan't be discouraged.
The second point is the shortage.Although we are all worried
about theshortage, I wonder how real or how acuteit is. If there
are 100 jobs available and 95people applying, each applicant is
going
718
to get about five or six offers. If there are100 jobs available
and 105 applying, thestudent is going to have to make
theapplications. It may be a fairly smalldifference in numbers that
will make anextremely large apparent difference in thesituation.
The other aspect of this is themaking of silk purses out of sows'
ears:that is, people trained in other disciplinescan become geoph)
sicists. I was at ameeting two weeks ago at which theastronomers
were complaining theycouldn't get enough astronomers,
themathematicians were in a terrible state,physicists couldn't get
enough of theright kind of people. My friends in thesocial science
field made precisely thesame complaints. Obviously there are
justnot enough trained people available to dothe work we want done,
no matter whatfield you wish to go into. At the momentat least, it
is a matter of competition.Earth sciences has an opportunity,
asProfessor Dunham mentioned, to makethe picture extremely
attractive tothe student. We have to sell the ideathrough the
exciting new ideas, tech-niques, the Holy Grail concept, for
theseimaginative and very idealistic youngstudents of today. We
must providethe proper image, and one way not todo this is to turn
a good, excitableand exciting young student onto routinesurvey
work. I support the point madeby Professor Slawson about gettinga
lad into the interpretative field,where he can use his brains and
seewhat all this is for. This is how weattract these men; not by
sendingthem in the bush fighting flies andmaking monotonous
readings day afterday.
Mr. Affleck. I would like to speak onthe point that Professors
Hollister andHall discussed, encouraging high schoolstudents into
earth sciences. Some yearsago, we in Pittsburgh tried a little
experi-ment, through the Pittsburgh GeologicalSociety, by making a
series of five televi-sion tapes, half hour each, on earthsciences.
They were directed at highschool teachers, hoping to get them
in-terested in earth sciences. After thesetapes were used three
times, they wereconverted to 16 millimetre mm withsound track by
the Pennsylvania Geo-logical Survey. These films are
availablethrough the Pennsylvania GeologicalSurvey to anyone that
wants them.
Dr. McNatt. I would just like tosecond this idea that the real
place tostart is in the high schools. I will startwith Professor
Hollister's remark thatpeople come to engineering schoolsbecause
they want to be engineers. But Isuspect that very few people, very
fewyoungsters in the world are even aware ofwhat exploration is all
about, either inthe mining or the petroleum industry. Iwas struck
the other day by a movie mycompany made. It wasn't about
geo-physics, it was about oil in general as asource of energy, but
the professionalpeople who made this picked up a gooddeal of
geophysics along the way and itmade a .pretty interesting and
glamorousfilm.
It seems to me it would be anexcellent idea for the mining
industry andthe petroleum industry to put out morethan one
professional film which wouldtalk about exploration.
Professor Hollister. I believe there is afilm that is being put
together nowcovering the exploration end of mining.The film that
was made by SEG a numberof years ago, called, I believe, The
Earth-quake Makers, dealt primarily with thepetroleum aspect of
exploration, al-though it did indicate a wide use ofairborne
magnetics and airborne EM. Ithink it was quite a successful film.
Wehave used it a good many times to showour own freshmen who are
undecidedwhat particular discipline of engineeringthey wish to
enter.
Mr. Joe Anzman, U.S. Bureau of Re-clamation, Denver. I just
recently joinedthe Bureau; the seven years previous I waswith a
mining company, so I'll speakfrom the mining standpoint. Much
hasbeen said about getting people into ex-ploration. This is
important. No oneseems to say anything about keepingthem there once
you get them. Dr.Harrison and Mr. Baird made commentswhich most
closely agreed with my ownfeelings. Exploration is very obviously
apoint of view. A sound explorationist isby nature, in mining at
least, an indi-vidual, a cantankerous type who can takedata and
numbers which are the results ofhis surveys and can relate these to
geo-logy, and then can relate this geology tothe geologist in terms
that he can under-stand. It's a man who can think inde-pendently
about what he sees and he isalso a man who can stand up on his
hind
-
legs when necessary and argue loud andclear for his beliefs as
far as the explora-tion end of things go. I think perhaps, inmining
at least, that a great deal has beenlost because we don't take
these at-tributes and consider them as attributes.
It is the research geophysicist who islooked on as the leader.
Perhaps it shouldbe the field geophysicist, who is going tofind the
orebodies. Otherwise, he will gointo nuclear physics, or some other
field
where he can use his discipline where hecan be regarded as an
individual, and as aperson who is doing effective work.
Dr. Garland. Are there any othercomments? The remarks made here
thismorning will of course appear in theProceedings, and if we
haven't come toany very definite conclusions, perhaps itis because
we had an impossible task.However, we have agreed to ask the
Mabey and Garland
Mining Committee of SEG to producefigures on precisely what the
needs inexploration as applied to the miningindustry, are. Once we
see those figurespresumably we can take more action onthe
question.
Mr. Mabey. In closing I would like tothank the members of the
panel and all ofyou in the audience who contributed tothe
discussion this morning.
719
Human resources and geophysical exploration; Mabey and
Garland
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