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Re: Neologisms....

Hails Fredrik!

Some convincing suggestions there. We could go for a calque of the

Latinate "corporation", *leikous, mu (or yes, *ga-leikinassus,

although that sounds very much like `lekinessus' "healing", actually

spelt leikinassus' at L 9,15), but I personally would favour a more

internally self-explicable compound. How about something like: *ga-

waurki-hansa "profit company/band/cohort"? `hansa' is a cohort, a

body of men/soldiers in Gothic, but in Middle German was applied to

a group of people joined for business purposes, the Hanse (Hanseatic

League).

"Steam" -- well, weve got `milhma' "cloud". What are the oldestwords for mist and steam in German? We could have a German inspired

*damps, or a English/Dutch/Frisian inspired *staums, ma, or a Norse

+ German inspired *nibls, ma. Or *rauks, mi., whose cognates

mean "smoke" or "steam" (this has wide currency throughout the

Germanic lands). Or as Oscar suggests, Greek via Dutch inspired

*gas, a modern invented word. In fact, Oscar's compound idea would

be good for specific vapours:

wata-rauks, mi., *wata-nibls, ma. water vapour

sunna-stabi-rauks, mi. helium (sun-element-gas), see below...

*in-giba-nibls, ma, *aitra-rauks, mi. toxic vapour

Oscars suggestion, corrected to something along the lines of `midja-

aldeis', sounds good for the Middle Ages, which had feudal social

structures. As for the feudal system itself, Medieval

Latin `feudum', `feodum' is supposed to be of Germanic origin,

swaswe iudans unsar gemelida, but the exact etymology is

problematic.

under FEE, the Oxford English dictionary has:

"a. AF. fee, fie = OF. f, fi, *fiet (app. implied in fiez pl.),

fief, fieu, fiu, Pr. feo, feu, fieu, It. fio (prob. from Fr. or Pr.;

the Langobardic Lat. faderfium is a compound of Teut. fehu FEE n.1),

med.L. feodum, feudum (first cited by Du Cange from a charter of

Charles the Fat, A.D. 884), also fevum, feum, fedium, in Sicily

fegum.

The mutual relation of the various Romanic and med.L. forms is

somewhat obscure. According to some scholars, fief is a vbl. n. f.

fiever to grant in fee, f. fieu, which, as well as the other forms

of the n., descends from feodum or its Teut. source. The ultimateetymology is uncertain. A prevalent view is that the word is f. OHG.

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fehu cattle, property, money (= FEE n.1), + d wealth, property.

This must be rejected, because such an etymology could directly

yield no other sense than that of `movable property', which is very

remote from the sense of feodum as used in early records, viz.

usufruct granted in requital of service (often opposed to alodis,

originally meaning inheritance'); cf. the synonyms, Ger. lehen, OE.

laen (the same word as Eng. loan), and L. beneficium, i.e. something

granted to a subject by the kindness of his lord. A more tenable

theory is that the OF. fiu is an adoption of the Teut. fehu in the

contextual sense of `wages, payment for service'; the Rom. word

certainly had this meaning (see branch II below), and it is

conceivable that the feudal sense is a specific application of it.

The d of the L. forms, feudum, feodum, however, is left unexplained

by this hypothesis; some regard it as a euphonic insertion

(comparing It. chiodo nail from vulgar L. *clo-um from clavum);

others think that it is due to the analogy of allodium; and otherssuppose feudum to be a vbl. n. f. feudare = feum dare; but each of

these views involves serious difficulties. It is not impossible that

two originally distinct words may have been confused. A conjecture

proposed by Prof. Kern, and approved by some German jurists, is that

feodum represents an OHG. *fehd, related to the vb. fehn, which is

recorded only in the sense `to eat, feed upon', but is supposed on

etymological grounds to have had the wider meaning `to take for

one's enjoyment'. This would account fairly well for the sense, but

involves too much hypothesis to be accepted with confidence. It is

curious, if the word be of Teut. formation, that there is no direct

proof of its having existed in any Teut. language, nor is it found

even in the L. text of the Frankish laws."

From the last suggestion, we might get Got.

*fahous, mu. fief

*fahoisks, a. feudal.

For manufacture Ive been toying with the idea of: *handu-taui, -

waurstw "hand-work", *handu-taweins, -waukeins "hand-

making/working". But since the referrence to hands is just an

accident of Latin etymology, how about *ga-smions,

fi. "production, manufacture", from the attested verb `ga-smion'.

"Condition, stipulation", hmm, Im still pondering that one. To me

the word stipulation' implies not so much an agreement (gaqiss,

samaqiss, trausti, triggwa) as a demand (?) or requirement (Got.

aurfts) or a term that must be met. But looking now, I see that

the sense of an agreed term is given in dictionaries. Maybe that's

more of a specialised legal sense? I was thinking of ON kostr',

but then that's more of a term granted, I think, than arequirement. What other old Germanic words can we think of?

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Yes, 'andwairs' is "present", which might include "modern",

although I suppose the New Testament examples tend to contrast

present unpleasantness with future relief, whereas the English

word "modern" contrasts the present with the past. Maybe 'niujis'

would be a better fit in some contexts? Another possibility, 'nu'

used as an indeclinable adjective (albeit matching Greek NUN), as at

2Tim 4,10 'frijonds o nu ald' "loving the present age".

Your suggestion *andwaibjan, which sounds as if it could literally

mean "unwind", makes a plausible calque for "develop", "entwickeln",

etc. I would suggest that for the intransitive form, the reflexive

pronoun would normally follow the verb, thus: *andwaibjan sik. This

is the rule where the reflexive pronoun completes the sense of the

verb (where the verb would have a different meaning without it) or

where it just serves to make a verb intransitive, gafalh sik `hid(himself)'. The exceptional word order of 2Cor 12,10 'mis

galeikai' I suspect might be due to exceptional emphasis: "me, I

take pleasure in illnesses [unlike other apostles who brag about

more normal things like visions and revelations]". But reflexive

pronouns may come before the verb where they have a full meaning of

their own independent of the verb, corresponding to

English "themselves", etc. Even there though, they can follow the

verb if not emphatic: gawasida sik "dressed (clothed themselves)",

ataugidedum sik "appeared (showed themselves)". Compare:

ni uslaubjandein faur mel sik gahaban "not allowing himself to be

captured prematurely"

ungahabandans sik "without self-restraint, (morally) incontinent"

In the first example, 'gahaban' has its ordinary meaning, and 'sik'

is just reflexive. In the 2nd, 'sik' alters the meaning.

Other words meaning to grow: liudan, keinan, wahsjan.

element. Your *grundu-stoma seems a fair suggestion, as far as I

can see. Cf. also: uf stabim is fairhvaus "under the elements of

this world". Greek hUPO TA STOXEIA "under the letters" (which might

be what inspired this translation) or "under the elements", or

anything arranged in sequence. A Gothic marginal gloss

explains 'stabim' as 'tugglam', dat.pl. of *tuggl,

neuter--cognate with OE tungol "heavenly body", ON tungl "moon".

I can think of a few on you list for which Gothic words are attested

already:

form. laudi, fjo, hiwi, nja., farw, na?, galeiki, njaoppress. (persecute) wrikan, sv. V., wrakjan, wv. 1.; (oppress as

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troubles) ana-praggan, sv. VII.; (oppress, burden) kaurjan, wv. 1.;

(burden, weigh down with) af-hlaan, sv. VI.

oppression. (persecution) wraka, wrakja, sf., wrekei, wf.

discover. finan, III. (A Gothic word formed in a similar way to

the German 'entdecken' is 'andhuljan', which Wright glosses

as "uncover, disclose, reveal, open".)

Some more suggestions:

*boka-leisei, fin. literature.

*ga-maini-hansa, fo. collective.

*faihu-fasteis, mja. economist.

*faihu-leisei, fin. finance, economics.

*stoma-stafs (b), mi. chemical element.

*tuggla-fasteis, mja. astronomer.

*tuggla-leisei, fin. astronomy.*wisti-fasteis, mja. physicist.

*wisti-leisei, fin. physics.

*wisti-stafs (b), mi. elementary particle.

*wokra-hansa, fo. banking company.

Now you can write:

Skohsl Aiwropa hvotei, skohsl gamainduiskeins. Ainhvarjizuh

Aiwropos reike in weiha triggwa gagahaftida sik du usdreiban

unhulon o: Rumos papa, Russalandis kaisar, Maitairnih jah Gizo,

uswaltjands ana Fragkam, sahsiskai wardiferjans. Hvar ist sa

andstandanda hiuhma, ammei fram aim waldufni habandam andastajam

seinaim, ni gasakada bi, atei gamainduisks sijai?

Llama Nom

Re: Neologisms....

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Fredrik" wrote:

>

> My neologisms that you havent commented I guess you find quite

> awright...is that really so??????????

Yes, I liked ainfaljan, aihtilaus, etc. They seem very logical.

And I even learnt a new English word "gradate". Till now Ive only

known been familiar with the noun "gradation". I would just say

that 'usdaudei' already exists with the meaning "diligence", inother words, the quality of making an effort, taking pains/care over

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post?postID=KgdAkNXC_BdANoW4Kun50paKyQkyr1OgqcpZ3cygwcsW58TY88CKImdpH9l4k5Ecnl_L4hMlj2ygsMPhjH-phttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/post?postID=KgdAkNXC_BdANoW4Kun50paKyQkyr1OgqcpZ3cygwcsW58TY88CKImdpH9l4k5Ecnl_L4hMlj2ygsMPhjH-p

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something. In modern English, the usual meaning of "industry" is a

sector of the economy, especially production, but people now also

talk about "the service industry" (shops, etc.), the airline

industry (transport)--so any field of official paid (and taxed)

employment. In slighly more old-fashioned language, "industry" can

also be a personal quality, and it's still normal to use the

adjective "industrious", meaning "hard working", something pretty

close to "diligent". How about:

us-daudei, fin. diligence, zeal, "industry" in the sense of making

an effort and being hard working.

*ga-smions, fi. production, manufacturing industry.

? "industry" where it means a "sphere of employment, a sector of

the economy". Not sure about this last one. *waurstw-, *tawja-kuni, nja.? *ga-waurki-asts, fi.? Or something with -fera, -

gawi "zone, area" used in a metaphorical way. Or *ga-waurki-

kreitus "profit-sphere", or *tawja-kreitus "work/job/task-sphere"?

At least that's bizarre enough that it won't get confused with more

basic concepts.

Also, you might want to consider the declension of "guild". The OED

says:

"Several distinct formations from the same Teut. root have here

coalesced. (1) The forms within initial g, y prob. represent mainly

OE. gild, gyld, (ield) str. neut., recorded only twice in this

sense, but frequent in the senses `payment, compensation, offering,

sacrifice, worship, idol'; corresp. to OFris. geld, ield money, OS.

geld payment, sacrifice, reward, OHG. gelt payment, offering,

tribute, money (Du., G. geld, money), ON. giald payment, Goth. gild

tribute:OTeut. *geldom. (2) OE. had also gegyld str. neut., where

the prefix ge- (see Y- prefix) expresses the notion of combined or

collective action. This has not been found later than OE., but as

the prefix ge- regularly disappeared in substantives (cf. reeve) its

representative in the 14th c. would coincide with that of the simple

gyld. (3) The pronunciation with (g) must be due to adoption of, or

influence from, the ON. gildi str. neut. guild, guild-feast,

banquet, also payment, value (Sw. gille, Da. gilde guild):OTeut.

*gildjom.

In continental Teut. the sense of `guild' was expressed by a

fourth formation from the same root, repr. OTeut. type *gildjn- wk.

fem., and occurring as MLG., MDu. gilde fem. and neut. (Du. gild),

whence mod.G. gilde; in Carolingian Latin the word appears as

geldonia, gildonia, explained by confraternitas; the later med.Lat.form is gilda; OF. had gilde, ghelde, gheude, jode, etc., in the

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senses guild, band of foot-soldiers.'

The root *geld- in these derivatives is prob. to be taken in the

sense to pay, contribute', so that the n. would primarily mean an

association of persons contributing money for some common object.

As, however, the root also means `to sacrifice, worship', some have

supposed that guilds were so called as being combinations for

religious purposes, heathen or Christian.

The sense `member of a guild, guild-brother', was expressed by OE.

gylda and gegylda, MLG. gilde wk. masc.; the Teut. word appears in

med.L. as gild (also congild, congilda), and in OF. gelde, geldon

(with many variants), one of a company (gelde) of foot-soldiers."

Which leaves us a few possibilities for Gothic, such as:

*ga-gild, na. (as in OE, medieval Latin)

*ga-gild(a?), fo.? (medieval Latin)*(ga)gildi, nja. (as in ON)

*gildjo, fon. (as in continental Germanic)

And for a guild member: ga-gilda (male), ga-gildo (female).

>

> > If you look at the examples, 'finan' seems to be more

restricted

> > than English "find". 'finan' has the sense of discovering

> > information, coming to know, or learning (finding out) a

> > fact. 'fan' and 'ufkunnaida' both translate Greek 'egnw' "came

to

> > know, learnt, discovered (information)". The more general sense

> > of "find" (e.g. find an object or encounter a person, also

discover

> > someone to be something) is covered by 'bi-gitan'.

> In the texte the sentence was to discover America...is it ok with

> finthan there?

Oh, in that case, I would go with 'bigitan'. 'finan' is discover

only in the sense of learning information, e.g. if you "discovered

*that* America extists", that is if someone tells you about it or

you read about it. But for physically finding the continent itself,

I would expect 'bigitan'.

By the way, a much rarer sense of English "discover" appears in

Chess terminology: "discovered check", where a piece moves out ofthe way, allowing another piece that was behind it to put the enemy

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king in check. This is more like "uncover, reveal", 'and-huljan'.

> > > I guess that it doesn't takes a

> > genius to understand what I'm tryin to do...at least Llama Nom

have

> > figured it out :)

> >

> >

> > Yes, even me!

> >

> I hope you didnt missunderstood me!

No, just teasing ;)

LN