NATIONAL ARCHIVES IRELAND...NATIONAL ARCHIVES IRELAND Reference Code: 2004/21/467 Title: Notes of a meeting between Minister for Foreign Affairs Garret FitzGerald and Secretary of

NATIONAL ARCHIVES

IRELAND

Reference Code: 2004/21/467

Title: Notes of a meeting between Minister for

Foreign Affairs Garret FitzGerald and

Secretary of State for Northern Ireland William

Whitelaw, mainly discussing aspects of the

British government’s Northern Ireland Bill and

the proposed Northern Ireland executive and

assembly elections.

Creation Date(s): 9 June, 1973

Level of description: Item

Extent and medium: 34 pages

Creator(s): Department of the Taoiseach

Access Conditions: Open

Copyright: National Archives, Ireland. May only be

reproduced with the written permission of the

Director of the National Archives.

TSCH/3: Central registry records Department of the Taoiseach

© National Archives, Ireland



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DO' uftUdGttoa. !he. ' . '1l0' V~1U.

'to how it \IOUl4 takw 4At«tdeus. or b4H4!. "i~h_

it would. take tt:J:I/I' cl-.1aiOM. ,O'f ooune, h. add.e«.

1t _,. .Uau1t 'nle millorlt,. (p~J)a __ .~

~. t he - ,3er1\,) 1ttM i*'I(~lltiY. hd .0 ftal

u. f Q this tb Seo ... t&l7 cl a 'k r U. tha"

1t was up to 'the ' •• ot1 •• fait .. ll • th ; Aasellbltr)

'b., attl.. 1 ta .0lI'2l proce4u.I"" \Ill4er 8eo':loa ,e 1) •

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tbat thfQ' $M ut - ." ... t. tlle tIfItJ' the" wUl.

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ha",. '401lU:GWa'td-.• il1;,/bSrl u.pollB" to

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and ootll . oal.7 be re· d ' .. ao '. ~a'l. if it

.. ueroiae4 la .. 00!11·. t1 ........... r.fh.,

Seere'IUF :ot 8ta~e asNH tha'''. »OWl' to

promote lqialattOll as" ,_ ... _ 0$11. '1"

4MleL0D8 but hAt ~W th :I 'he tftl18t.nel

- ttue .ere Dot 41Ylftft _tt .... ) to etch the

JHJt~.t.1' .ftlJpoDdd b7 8a7U18 tha'teftrJt:hSioI

la th. , mh ha4 ... ,...lld.l1t;F ·et Mla8 41vJa1ft,.

-.oad ..... thw .. OOlflOat. al. · • tor U.

bltfnl'tlW ·coal< ~' be thUa built WhU.. it .' ' JA

poftr. •• -.-...,0' tJ,tat. - \ ._ ~fi In.l ...

th.,- Oft ~ -\oonat. u . -'1t1.1al e1haU_

b ·tM~p~ ......... .

~ 1D.. , .. t1ft., Lt tills ... proY14M 'I_

.... ., . 'okllq .. it . all , .. ,eat

.hie vw14. 1Jea~ ~ ... sao-t7 a1IIH

it 1IW1s' be~.,·t. tllqtu tba' tit.

:_t1 .. vtNJ.4 .. I)ot al...,. .... a '. it".",

_!Oft:t,.

the 1a1et .. ·t_ e.n~e4aa tovho 1IWl4

~1_lf.rth4l'ft 1"1-' g4 ' ., v0Ql.4 81sD tb,e n • ...",. ... __ te 1». tH CouacU ot Ir.l;ad,

• .•• 1 •• •



111nat1on,. otllil it.. t.h. QbJ..t ' 1 •• ,

11IIoa tll,. , " tl.... 18. aot ... ;thorl t". w.h.

voal.4 repnnattlt •• ora ill '" " COUIldl .'~ 1nl ..

_ " '. 'to et· · . .,. ... ta1

'tfoUl.4 .. . _ber 'ot "h. ·· :.~1 .... make hie ,ova

4801,.1 __ and, e.1pbta 0_ 4oCQ1l._ta?

Mr. . QoUlel.d sa!4 tlUt.'the mtet..i.s, o~ Sectl.-

12.(t) .. tha\ each ·ea4. 0'1 h~ would

,111 asnemea't., ftla~1aa to hi. Da~t '.

n.oUoaa,. !h8 w..ter. bovwer. 11&14. that theft

would ha ... to " ODe 'l"_o1po1 tl.Vloft:t7 to

t " with .. 'lI. C01Il4 0 .... dealt .. eJ.allt an __ 17 Wit ' 41.1'1' __ ~»l.. _ .e ' . _,~.... •. a .... .., 01 S't-~~' ..... '.. tb6't .Ill tJJle e_ tt w1'44 '" tM Q)d." E:aO_t.1_ lid tM JUr.d,e*w po.W ., 'ht aol.,aJ. Ph"t1' ' __ ,' ;9'_

•• tu· <14., ,- ,.to SA •• .DUI t. .' '. t:_ 5,..... Ir.lan4 aa, a .. ~. 't1a4e .. th. Bill.. b.

pnd4etf a; ', lDo1ltlft ._u ... aua '~.e : :t.a.a.r

,OIl tile .... l4r .... _ h. OM' . , .:1I1l - - b.ne.1t' 'o~

the Beatt .... a lfhQl..!h __ ~- o· ~~'. .. ,_'" '._" .., ¥v_.' ." the tll..nloa tb fftb.r · 1rOUl4, J1ft~ft' ..

~t1ft 8th a OGrpctnt. _11ft ... b\ft, the,

qUft:t1- ea .. .... it _ wh,.thet- the .oui1_

la .. 1qal eat!"". Of 'oou.ra.. tile BeoJr~ 01

at&. _ alsht be; .~ p .... 'to HgQ asn~ ' ,.

- . ca thi. ,poUt :.,. ,414 ut 'thiak tit t • Whit_law

wwl4 Nb to baw .a a~ol...O_c.lud1ng _

'tJ.da , .. 'loa 01 oaU_ti" .... apooaJ.'bW'J',' ih41

8.-.tU7 01 ate;. ea14 that.. ,_

., W01itl



•• M1B18'er .q~ ., IO:.riMraI:ralaa4

~ata .,,"' Si" 'p.*ra to' .i6l' ~_ .. i.

_ bit .. ., th." _" ,a,e,f1lled $8 _.ClUtJ1"",

auttt.nti •• 1a ~:ee,t1_ '(') . He saw no reas-

1th)" the 1)e:paritae~Jt eh0t44 ". ,axeout1.' ao1thoritL ..

.la ,Q4Ut1a to Hdeotthoee n.,a~nt .•• ,

!1Y S .... ~ .t St8M 8&14 he __ theft ..

_ .... r ' mid Br _, WooUt.14 .aa14. tha, t1'.Lt8 ha«

be_ ~"' .'tile, : ... 't1llg of O-tt101a18 __

an ___ haI boa ,81 ..... (the NU_.VD ea

that 00--*1_ wu that Ud.. tr01a14 .-.bl-e f\lacrt1oae

new ueo1e ...... b, o~ In1u4 )U.ld.avl ..

'0 \$ t~fted to .orU1en &-.l_ n.~ .. ,_ ua4e S'eotJ.oa ,,) ... SMfttu7 ot 8.,.

~ .... that 'th. -..la olltaia the ~ to .. "'-, 1'01'1,._, .. , ...... _. , • . •• ~- te u'k ... l' -- ......... 4iItilI ..... ~ ~.".. i!iJ q ., .. -" --1IIIiff '., -- ,q-'-#

~OI! •• b~'. '0 .. __ .xecut,l" _~t1 ..

1a adUt101l teo tb,.1J'> I ... ,.

1t.~ t. the q",*.u_ of oo.lleoifl ••

ftSpQIla1'b1llt7,,,the _.l.te _t4 tbat.lD ,h18

rt .... 8Uloe _. JI.t .t .. ~_to'l :r~. ,oan ... ",0 't11.' le.,tala.tl.-. u.t.~ •• BUl •• '

1fO\'ll4" b1 eft •• , ••• ~_ltnt..a J;n Ma eJ.l

.,a •• tt_~. ,Be eaJ.« that, auch a .. eocllld.

M". dtao:ritJlU7 pt __ ill • af.tua,*loawbW\

theft •• flQ .1eplpftYlai;oa ;for oOll.Mttw

'''''''i.b'ill~" 4up1" 'he roYerall OOlltftl 01

th8 WJd.t:tthall 'fn'~.. a. pobt*, out that

lrtll •• __ 'l1ft .... w ia~ ' 6't ' ••

D~at 01 ft'lWlce 414.0' .at to' 61- ... ,,* R.Jt. ~·OO1lhl.ot mU. l\s.4oao ..

.....,.,. A~:". , ... ,. " .ftft ......... ,.., - ... "'.' . ................... , t"", 'D\I. .!it v,~ ~ •• -41" ..... """"'"'Ct U'-w-... ., U ,_ • .....,n'llRA . ..,

: .... / ....



'p:r'OY14.. 'ft1 is ... ,., of Stat. :tdft'.hCl ~O .t. 't"..,l'''GDal poUO," of' puaUeu. 1A _W

.",10. ". c. whloh vWlA l1IIlt th. Oft.

~l,: ... ,'i;,., t1;;. ... U_A 0'" ."'- n.._~_A. At' '4-'--0'. ,'_ta:lIJa, 'RP ~ ,' .... ~~_w. 4 ~ ,.~~. ~ ,~ V~

._H18. Gb ft, ' ..... but t le ' bi ~'

_'1' .. .-4 ~. the 1mp(tnaao. fl1~ th. taCIt that:

wader 'lb •• l~ the 1'U:a1 .... ot Fiaano. woul4M

,\)1. toY' note at-ope:> al ,01 the eXHutt:".

h :v'elv1ll&' expen41 t1U'e'i' hI' ., :n.p~'" lJl

tt-u '9'16 tlat cone,antratloa of 8UOh po'dr' .in, ' ..

~o:t. •• bMu't lv. WOUld :a1l1tat. : p1J18t

tiwaev.lopun: of cou.eti. ... nap=a1bUlt7_

la ~qubUo theft!"". he bellwe4. C:QD8tl,t.tlona1

l>t!'O"9'1:cdona f'.~ <lOU .. ", •• daJlQU1b1Ut'f'

aa4 thi .,..tl , i •• .u .. " 'bl'.'U4 ia ~

" 1t1.d ., ,t ' . lf1th,ollt IJQOl\. .. apeoUl0 ....... ,

but •• couW _, ••• hOw cooll.taOtJ.:.e rMpou1~_

COll14 w01 " Ut th. ,~, lf1:thouta "

.".w. ~.J." ..,.-1.'1, la ..... O'l 'b

'tm1~, r ~~ 1;h. B.a 0'1 tU D ' eat 0' 'bumoe. .0 .~ of 1>.t. ", " ' .....

iht., ... aft. ,m,ol"t.'JO;t.:at<. a.~ ' ate lhat ha , <> bad. pol1tl,oal" , " tD ab S.Jl tie

Ha,POt . the m1nont7 oarmo'l 'be _eoUd. 't.

\ \ aoMpt _" ~ the que!' :mnou.tl.,. ...... ~ . ... o;t the :Depan all'l (J£ .:bumoI v111 h tm1C1data.

... __ pt~on 'tiu ,t th. Cfl1.~ _.tln1a a

ui.OlWIt, th. aoutlw ))er- Ul obarca ,of the

"'~i o-~ :UJa:Ilc. hu .0 a. a . • of tu alJlOr1:t7_ la, tha .. ~auc. .. one -CO\tU a ..

th-. Uioa1-e'tie . _ ,1; obj' t -.0 .. , ~ ~ •• ldA"ri:'t7 b.olttUac- ,..It!oa Q )Qwdu.l that n ... p~_ to'!!. f1w S ... tu'7 01 ·tat • .......

.... / ....



.. 1, .. to tOi)k ~h.r1ttto ' his ;q\lot;l,on,. ~

that there '._ It ,, ', " eh . ~I '.Jt to

p0:8e t11 t o amnMiflf!

llet.n1Jls to aeotion 19.th. ',,18 er:8 14 'that.

'torh1.at~r1Qal reasC)_ - not 'aec.e.ar~ :la

... ~ 0 ee t h. ~~ult 01 preYleu8~nlat~'~'" -

[f ",'h,_ mtllor~t7 .' , eca.~ ft»-,ted u thII ..uor 1.. 01 the •• G'1vU s.nc • • It

th. ,rovtei08S agablat 4UorialnaUQ:nlD

tleotd..a t9 were to be ~~e4, aa 'ldkt"a~

a,.ott1o pl'"Q .ot nOfti. , ~ot a.thoU. to, th .~ ., .m. lnlAut4, publ.lo --..iooa ' 0 ",nu

the .u." i1IbalG ••• the it. woul4 take abOtrt

t'bJ.~1'.an t o _~ abou;'t t: 11" balAftM la tU:

S~4.~ I t.. .. to, iUa 'M~1a 'p~.toa

tteal4. J.:It tao,\ t , . :11 11l to 'pt" h. _"er ritsht. ' Mf.~ t~ tl btul __

_ .. ' _~t, a 1968, 014 .h...s

' bat t b ... Wft'$ v1.1?'tUaJ.l3' nO' C)atbollce, 1D th.

hlo.r 1 ... a. o£ the' ClYU a.mo. 1U the lforth.

<t .... A : ' AA;"' ..', . ~ .. ' a~4""

ut, ~ outo:t Sect;1.'9. V_e~ tbat s.o~1Oa

a. ~1'Q\.stsnt 0~ o.OtQ>.lAlln 1:l a ,ob'" ,£1"',

• a .. quaUt!K p&J"Son ft~ Ute poai.tlon. ae q....u_

1N4 hcwto' ..... "t U("iUIl{1 th1a,. E. badreHntlJ' c-.

, rhll the eamG '~1l1l1. hJ..el1'wl th the Oa~

1th. he ha' oc_;td~n44.u'».n.l¥ t~ 'to

ppcr1at 10 , i 0.' • ~ftO~ .9 1 .. q_1 Ut_

, r.ul.M4 tb,



... 1 4 -

It h. ,414 ' 0 he eO\l.l4 :0. t , .. b rf'oH the ' b\t4emaa.

a.. "' i.Idat.. .tH.aM tha1t1d.a ltecOIl1q

ftO. mon a, "-17 :_ttlw 1,.... ,111 'the North ,a134

ba4 ' . un trOD8Q" w..1th u.. ' .414 .ot: 1ihilIk

that l' .. ,..1'bJ.6 to ... a atvl Oft N~

tll. ialiJcdance 117 ao""all, it iJ.lasa1 t. 40

fM S~ .1 ftta"_ ~ ...... to ..:ol!ti.rtlPGI"t,..'

ftPO" ood1aR1m1bu.. ,ill , .. pri __ ... tor '*' •• '..-.1* all a ,","~ , H1>ort tha't ha4 ;

4ftcWl .., -' speed. ,. 11'7 hUt _ 1.,... a,a4, traa. _1~ .... 'M1A~": t.* hU. , " :: ,ltlM

N bIlo.' _to liU: ea .. U .. tu pr"_. ' •• nu. u. ~, •• tilu ... t ' \tOlD 1fOIIl4 M: . '

Nt _thou~ -tIOt1_19. Ue ~ 'tMt ~b

ettuu_ Of' a'balun ..:L4 ,. JapJ'OftCl. ,A1fta47

iD, the lOver r

u ~ JUPl .... -, ,\k •• woul4 be a._ l .... eU'_

O'Qit. A ,004 deal et _. ~l U'OA trca, the tact

tbal Mt -G'1.ll6h nUont •• ""', ooaS. 'tr<a tu 0. ' 'cUo eo,"! uaS V tli; !le ..... pa to, Bta:llo , lh11b1a

alifAtt 'bla. B ha« __ tGl.4 tha, .........

Oath.aoa,. tor ..,.1e. ,.... h1che , : 01

a.h....-.t ot .1cal,.... ., -,',-• .-.. .1aSag ... pecpl.. 'to SCl aI'W84 to .. 0.,1\01£0

eoIloola to &lU)Ollrase' : •• 00);-1 ...... to appll ~tJl"

,.:1'1" m iB. _~t of ,loultur:. " .

~ lJJ4, ftU,',.', . othu ~,' ,' __ ,. 1hIto , "" ""', " ...., \ \ Oatholl..p~.lft4 t ,o ,, 1.0 ' 1A.a ~ t ' •

1'n>1_1ou ath_ tbaD ,.t:ftF .. ' tTivU \6ento.,.

!be Rllli •• w.-t.a tha.t 8om. oaNti4a • .t&b.t

-' •• 1 mt.1a1date4. bu ' the . ma17 c4\a.t •

• '.' .,1, •....



-t5-'

414 ·ot ag... . .• M14 that !lh' -. 1. .' ... )\ ~

18tro .'t b1e. = .t:0a4. ' that 'Jl. ~ ...... , ba4 v. ......... .... thIt.. r of Ulooal, _t~1t1 •• and tb.-. . lJoe." •

.. ' or'f:w1Q\ell'. U ., - r Stl1t,o~ th. tabltGtatet

t an1.n.terim a'ta.:tt . •• ;ton. he t ",...t

10*_ b DJ' c"ria U1 Pl.&4pa OD ,~ ,ob d.1at rlw"t1cc

aLob. he CQuU not qp bacJk' O!i., keel ~"

1:a lOQal uthorlty '.plo,..t : o O· thoU.oa ....

fo~. a .• g. for ooJ'tain poa. !of

t,.. OathoUc8. B...4. th&, h. WG\ll4 h--u. ap1:a $ho:rtl,."'that ... ~ aclvooat4t" sa tJ)J.a tiaW,>

....... f) ·Bua.,

, '. ' - . Ur 8&14 could ri. - t 1 t .u' ... r , •• ' ut JO to'S, pe ....

Ba'1I~t:l1" . -hf) Idllol"it7 _", IIOt "-'17 p~ to - 0 !J>t __ a pac.' ot~. G1Y'.tl ' ...s.."

0'1 au..ch ·a __ , :diapantyat t · · top .... ·ft17

haN toeooept.. ae :lU1ete4that "."

would. haw· to be ' .. ovv 'th. next 'two tor tbee

.,..an to, 4._*,10p aue ' ...., balu t ,lI! l'I:l1a 'I!IIM.1

_11 iavolft b~_ people in trMoutute tta

.... 10.'. .. SeonUx7 0'1 ' .. '. . ~

.......-;·.·.A . ·eaa ""!At.~ ..... 'ftAft 1, ~~.k~''W 1J'I~ . A;'. - '....-0 ,.,-.... , . :r- _ ..... ~

> .. ,,_ ad.-cl h ... a'ti'aIWJof w.. _'t, -u. ..... tluit 11 a ••• npaf la ..... Jl'orih •• ,.tan. ~ .0144 be MO • ...,. •• ~ 01

'la_ aai4 th., VO\1ld: ... "t, .. k_~

,..1b1. but oould. llO'\ ~t' .,..1'-' .tIlprO'l1Qg eo eOO-Il. 1th_t I'8Urlq people.

ft.. 1(18I.t_ uc.p:t:ea ·tlU. .. 8&14 he bel1uve4

ty m..n.ta'bl1J.t r tor' .oh DJ! :tuN. nt1 ... c\It

... • 1 ......



' .~ 'be tacetl.oa ftIll ..., U uo_8lLl"1.. l e

h1MelL eo1ll4 I." 110 tJoltttlOUeb.ori of .. tit U

. 'otton la ao~ taka _p141,. 1.a thte area., the .... 1_

euort 1n the orth 'nU bftak 40.,.~· 'ial7

ore:.". ~_ t o neltt1:M the: : uu.t,ow'e pOlat aDd,

ea14, tha-t he WOUld ... lIbat 00\l14 \e 40118.

!U l!u'ateter cou14 J'.UR!.M' ~'. :reu 'Ior tlMJ i

prOri.loa Ilb_11thll ,o •• ,U.Wt7ot 'a •• _the (SMUoD,

2' ). • S~ilI7 '0'1 t&~ • .t.a1t!al17 at .-'."~

•• potat f __ 1UD1.'tr"a - uQ aJI4~ "--as ,ha" 11 ...... Nt~ to the oath .. tout iD ~" 4 toJ-

. , 'tier. Of the ~1...4 .. · ' ~ h •• 01al4 Ub

t 'o tat. mu crecU.t tor 1dJsJOit1t1oaoa tcM., 'R.

"abolJ. . '-et tbe 1u t • ou. o~ th , · iTU et't':loe.

lOCal, oO'UJ);Cila t c·.. .. t M4ooUl4: Aot 40' 1dlOh. _H •

.• oat.h Ht on 1ft Sohedule 4

.. ':, Jt&1 the . ea1 a! · · t,~ o~ ltt., ' ~.1ns the valOD1.t

cad " .,:t.ae.' the 'tfrd.ela • putlou.lAr17 ' r.. ' ~ ..

aa 'bea ea . :tng t'hfq' lfOU.1d no. lb. • power ld;tlt

p ... o_ wh __ ~;~~.';, ,' .a t. mat lot)" tbl-. ' 1" ~/ •

Oo_'J. tu-t1... thia1o,a:th woul4 prav14. "",den.. t ,t

all ".hot .~ ".'1 •• 11a4. ___ toqp11014 t11.

1&_ of .o:ftbao Ir~lc4 Q ,:p~ ;req~ .. ' :t

"or .. _t1 .. --'uahiP.I

,.. ' 1 - .1" ,.11'1t*1; , t ~ .' ' tlo\ q\l1d'ftl.lJJtet at

all with the oat h 1ft Soh~.4 t h.., .. 00lt0 ....

with " pt'OVi,sloa t . 1ntroUq<t _the, nt:.uea to la . '.,t1Orl "( .2) . •• S'tOlNlt~ e:fS' .. ~

_pn8.-'lWfPri ". that f!JIq b. . oa'th ,' 0Ql4 _

o,Ollt • .,ht.,* Ho 'thG ,1;: thld. ~ h atop,...:11,

ft_ ' ne,. !.It. f6.Jlb'ter ~ that thle

pBl"'O:1cular nb-8.ru_ should; '- :4, let.t -.

,. •• /., • . it.



the $c:reta:q G~ ~t4_ ea..td he ' 1111 e., wha'tc oould

.. .Ott.. in tltis ott e.,

~h tun1e1u.r 8&14 that he .. ,.ono.m" to fin4 the"

'Wdno 1"6t~.ne. to th:e ' ' pea 0'~t10Jl OD

B~ ,_t. i.Jl, the I1U $14.' , ' • ~ 00411.14

"t.~ to s_tira 2'(':5). f()Uowb&& theprlaolPlW

01 t hat eoanu'tioa, tla thatChf.a,

. ~ H'l~t.. 'to,.. •• -..to • •

• _l't1oJte ~ th.~_t:1_ .... dOld ••. tftt

the pb1ti •• proY!$1OU of th., OOJlYi , tt_. fh "

S.aftt , of state _4 that 1.1-. ..... to 844 up

all the ~f: •• ~ ,o~ tu ' 111 ,~ 41aor1ldAaU._

aniS tit · 1JlI' rttl~t ,qt ' . wo 11.fl4 ft1J'I

aubstaot1:al ~" (IJ'f l~~iBltt.~ R~. lM1J.e9"

tht alt h ~ tb

wi't1:W1 in , 0 theUl, they , e" .. ' Ut a. , oh. !.I'

·'he H11'dster pQinta4 01U 'hattba Wh1ta P6per ).aA,

'Vlrtual ll' ,p~" that ~ Pl"OYiB1oft8 o:t 'he

QorwClUo 'wovl4, btt wltt_ J1i.to 'the- MU.

'."-17 of: 'tt. n;~ .... _'h. ~'1"

ap1Ut 41aorllli,aatloa Ut both publ.to pri: , _

. ... ton lMt the lUII1.te ,.lat 0\11, tila"M:t~

a;pi_'~"l_ .. r • .a. " .•• ''''ot; •• ~_H ' '" la ••

~,._ OOJlftllU. 1dl1Oh vu. .I'ittt illolu4;e4 ia

the l'W.l an4 b , aaj,d that he hal. tea 'hat th.

~ Co .... t ,1_ ~ ~ #1 't 11Jt o th.

Bill u · •• ~t. ,Ab ).b11 • ., Hr'. ooati.14

"f-.rea to aatl7 tten ianl.v · rt ,tea

WIdoh 'Or.' :8ot tranat.~ _t1.nUJJ4er tit.ltll

... , .. / ...



·an« Ch. S.or.~· o:t S'at. ooat~ tha, .. _ ~

.' he:h: all. r18hts qttes;ioJU!l lltlnd.

to rosen-fAior %(J$t'ed , t tr • . • ~ • .a ,to

.10Ok. 1nto thiatuestttm ea ride 4: b;y th. JUa:la'er..

'.f'~ agau to .",:ton 2,{,), th. rU,rd.t.P

.%pr ••• " .e~nctU'V;bout the 11111 . t10a .1'

antl-d.1se X"im1nat1cm proTtele118 1apU~ 111 th .

phras... ttnatJ.o 1 eeou:r1 t:r. " 'b110 ea1.t.,.- anA

ftpubllc or4 .... '. it · _ wo:rr.t.a . ·.ut ... pQ*8t:lde

~uatifiea11QQot housu rwt be' .. allooate4 to

. · .. thc11ca. as a %"eaul.t pedtapa.t itl ffpv.\l10

o-r4 _ lWi e:t.1on of dl$ol"!m1n ' t ·l ' .... YW!I'

are_ re;fe:rra to in the lJaitlag """'.tllO.'. w:r.. t:ho •• t h$;t hall eau': •• t ...

minQri tJ " .. ,. W()odf':t el4 I C'Alt hat ._

eou:14 "' t •• ,,,

be10r It O l"t.. •

would '. it ah lp 'but " · .,1e! ftct . 1'.~O .•

·to C-.tb,011cs who hdalr.a4" euttftilCl ....

U_~atlOll 111 the-a.." ft' - »~.elI'

tb;O(Ht th4.tth.e7r. ':o.·t -on " nle4ovt . 8: .ea14

tb t . ~. ·.«r. eeJ"1ous . _ ound fOr! ch aMo_m aM

en. 1t "a remarketl. 1>1 ~.. _ .1. t h t houal1J"g

n$e,~ .. 1·.&t1._ w:riCd. ~tb wqe ~ inlet ex- sald. "bat

:1 t .4 pr . Uy b.en 1 7" ' ,ha ld.horit7.

t a _, t "at · he diet lllotl0 b w V.I! ""1onal-.... ear.t.. t¥ and 10""_ INlan488Wl"1 t,. :1 f11olt.. ta

tu l1!ll:tiJ); , »iu'M ... , .la ,'"~iOll , . sooAOJ.18 .. , Dut he et........ that. th. ~b '. -aa .". ao.' wl'l7as on' . " -. pr ' 1_ tor' tal!'lJaorl't,.-

!he Seoret.1U"1 of i ta" reapond_ by .~ tha'

heao.apt. "he ~\erfa · 01.ate ani w\ll.4

100lt u to th.llatt ... iu.'nh.l'.

.., .. / •....•.



lE! 'fhe IUJI.bt l' querte4 the ,. _it)' tu lI'dt 1lljJ

EZ::::iiL bl t le · otmt.tEU:· o.oQ.t1tt:2.ee1. 1ft tit. 1'111.

_F.OOlUi.,ltl ' If. tba~ tt new 00 . '1tuol88 yeft

to be ltta'blu hed , th1e

h l.~ a 1 ilp1».. HNt ' 1!¥ of Scat. e.a! A

that he· . -el.i eve t'h t tla: r e . 0'Ul4 ' • t o be aaot1lft',

. leoto:ral Bill bfl"oH lon~ . 'Od.r n. F*8.t . t e

,.... r d l!'C of "" onh trn I r e1 4 . S

8' tho;:r1 ti:es. ~ !nol.ude4 ~\,,~ 1)' '. GCept ,·

.. tt- r , 0 t t t $ , ~e rtmfn ter 1> ""Uament It'O\ll.i

y. t o ,look a 't the quest!" • . 111 . e Ilaive •• ther

t e7 11k\td 1 t or not . t~ . ontnv.w1DJ.

ttlft of ' l1Qb. COlt t1 tq' bCUl\dar1 .... th.

whole qU 8t 1on or 4e\t"Ol "t lOll WO\l14 be 4~ up

in the cont~ ... l' ,e - , t t • repOrt

· t u

couU be compl1oat e4 by 1 '

,. the tiftt

... " J:1ll cd tlU..

const! ",ue.ncr bo'Ul1d.ar..i. <, . •. Mint ' t '!l" ftMeJJte4

,t t be Bounda17 0'0 ' iae101l rvte;rrd to 1rl the

:Bill 1n 'colmeetioa with tlle W .. t1!l1nM·, . ... eOdUt'l'eno:l ••

iva t he atd1 t ,

int e this ,qu •• t1oa. of' oOruJ,ttW.ncl • ~.r'b.

~ tJ 1>17 ' that ordJ' ' d11r ,o liJi.· 1ft the K.ll

. oUI" b-e tt.eH$ ~r tfrr 'ibis tAU' e. R ....

om1£J4,m .4 1II1&,t -.. ".et ibt .. oorut$1_.0ta

Wft being , te4 la "otaUt t o ~ n._t .• fhe e .. r_ta17 ot S.,. ;aai4 .... , b. • .-1 In. to

... how 1t WOIItld VO* §At . fbe7 WO\ll4 'tt. ~

at ... :reau1'. ot IJotll t11. 1 · ' :1 el.aott... u4

tit. A .... \117 el •• t.t .. _ La th1an*P-Ht. 11 ~

., .. / ...



- 20, ...

wo-uld b t ' 8 "et be ' use b .tttfJ" '

t'or the , 1,ect1011, of od.) .. cid '8.,

od t. ha4 , t la . t the end of he. OWftt in

~1()tl8 1 - ~.-tJ.o.n ' . 1n4 . • b-e

gla t.o Gee tbe;t th Y don. well

iD »e!'17 - .• . how t , '7 v0Ul4 .. b , 1ft

ill 'bol41at; the h~llainO. th.n. 11 .. peat

Wit' machot t. &aid. h ' h . op

$11$. of oou't'1tu,.m.c1u in th _

~_~ liorthe Ir ~ e_tat but G!W::~

" t ' thai' th. ,~

'th. pow .... toleok at .h8 qWl." .' ud· 'tu SeO'tr_taI';y

-t ; t:t. 1:00 - JAto thU . tt,Oft.

GathcllC-B wuld ,lJke doapemtel.;v

of ;pro . polio " in their 14:. ·Pflmta.

et

th ntwD

~t th1 pOint , th Seoretar.y Gt at te 1nt

to eay that 1n Genfilml b " d.e· too to

d1 . _ 4; t 118 o·f the ; .. ' .. 1 . ,. « of po11cJ' u the

,on · hut h. voul,4 q QCJuutmd it 1t tout

tlw.t El

t be '

.I1n1mrt " Nq •• t, .

it:

01 1fto t10a fl,f up - .rte o'f the 11. fb. •

.er: t:a:17 of g , , r !l3 ~NEfd

he dl: , abt wleb Pel.,. to - tb· , h _ .. :a

ft- 'fIY of ,Jut . hltD aov.~ . '. e li1rdst ..

• tha • .-toed , It

... ord him that the" wow. neo , h . 'QQl4 ' 1; Y'

elari.f1·t1Gn '"vel7 helpftllr¥ * ,0 this the



- 21 -

Secr etary of s tate replied th.a.t he was not I!ltUre!

(He implied that t h e use 0·:( the te.ftl "very help1Ul!t

migh t not be t oo h elpful in re:Lation to Mr . Pai s ley) .

OO.nt1nuing on t he question of polio., the Mia1st.er

wondered whether ~lr Whi tela.w had any 8u{?;8estiona

a.. t o .h Otf loca.l pollc1ng could be reint roduoed .•

The Sec.r et'ary of s t ate said they were exa.m1ning

t h e situation to s ee how .it developed "on t ,he gro:un4" .

On po110e reform in gan.ral, be was in r ather a

olel't s tiek a.t 1ea.8t until the A8sebl1 el.ot1ol'UJ

wereollt of the way . Th-e po11c~ tSBUe was, becom.1ng

qu1te Et big one ;for Pai s ley who had l'eferr.d to th.

t act, t hat the R. U. OII were, not now being' pa1ddangeJ"

money. ,1th th'8 aid ot the milit aq ,ollce, he th~t

t he RUO '\'I'. ,re getting back to l",gu.lar po11ctilg Ut

Q'ertaiD areas (i.eluding som. ~$ o~ AndersOtietQWl1>

but it would be d1s1ngenuousot him to say that t his

was happening everywhere . The M.1n1st,ersaid that:

proper p OliCing was not t aking plaoe where i't should

be occurring a nd the Secretar,y of s t at e 8t,~eed

t h e. t in s.r eas such as: :Bal1~h1'the s i t ua ti:QD.

was not &ood. It was better on t he :fringes 01: the

Bogs1de but t h e:re was apparent ly nG progress in the

Oreggan.. The r eal pro-blem" however , was in Bel:f'a'st

where the' sectar1.an areas were e-rowded tog$the1:' tI

For the prt.s.nt he musii ,t1ok SQ~ldlf wl th the l't .u. a. "lmt 11 he ha.4 iQore :rX"$cetiomOf 111~oilUvre" • He sa:i4

that t hey' had t oinv.olve, the new ~Ocal oouno11.a with

police eonun1t tee8 Ut t h.1r ()'WR areas .

This whole prolt~em was despe:mtel.7 d1:ttiaul. t,.. a. th.

poll,clog qu •• t1:s,nlGS "an ar t iole of f a i th"



with both c(J_ul:~'~le8., 1..1. aaol.u.'b.tca ccUlA 'be . ,

f6uU :in J1i$llta.et. h.owilVO:V t 1 ii ~4 'b. :fll>un4

elaewhe"1f H~Q ~P$B:t;~ that •• was on a ho<tk . ,

for th:e momen.t" a.$ be hoped the P~a,*HJr wmUd.

r+l~Qgni$e 1 1nl'!; at the $ame time they were mak:1.Dg

as muGh $;f:t'ort as peas! 'b1e t Cl) rea:ta:re looal

;poliaing with ~he help o-f the nlltlU4 y poliea.

He quoted ~ well...J.mown :phraae sa.y1ngl'the R .. U' ",d'.,

ia the 'beat polioe toreewe MTe got It and claimed

tha.t t11&1 had done 'W'·ellrecentl,y 1O The d~tellt1on

ra;ta.,ras l.1emarkable, oharg~shad bean brQ~t ~n$t

694 people aIrDdy t~y.ar and thl1lrehad be(i;\ll

COii$j.d~abl.~4et~.q ·tj,._ 0.:£ ~$4ent ~4~aJ! Ha

Dletj.cm~ t .hat tb~ee{j)ut Qt :t~ ;r~Qe~t )'IlU'dtal's

(he Wf3,$ ;r-.Uabl.v jJrrt.)ft'i~j) \ ... _1'$ not seciia:t'ian

but 1nte...-faotltmal.

In :eer,11 to tha 1Vi1ni$teJ't s enq\UJ.7 about a repori

that d:~ ~an(lern~ a _ttn~ with the TJ .. ll •. l .• , th$

$eQr&tarytiit ata~~ call..,. ttU$ .. ~o,. ln~.s111$\i:u!!lt ~

He gai d a. raeket 'bad; 'beliXl. €£Qing ou.ld.'ke the

1.R. A." the U. D.A.. were gat'tUlg l'¥.uana,- frcmtop

people, some Q:f them had 'been doing too lfell

on 1 t and t'lere probably trying tQo()Ver 'their

traeke. Nobody was qw..t~ /!lUI'.e what 1$ gOing on

blitt he. lWl:t' . \;]hi telaw. we.{:l cu~rt~ ).'lot go1n.gto detaj.a

b.toreth~ l~$emb~y ele:ctiena. It

W'o'Ul.a 'be very fool:iallc;t him to deta.in a

ea.'I1<i1i4ate nGt4 ~y .ide4~ th$ $l.ectLons. "fit U~».A " l'Gp Ol't was nQ1; 10 be takew.n t o().e~loU$l.7 :I

it wa. a ~l\"$ :i1'!;t~~l ma'trt~~.



Retum1ng to the qUQoat1on of p011ae proteotion"

theS$:cretary of State aekedwhat did people

really want : would the" besatisf1'ed wi t .h the

change o~ 'm1form? Ue ~ked tha.t Superintendent

Lagan in D'erry. a Oatholic. was highly popular

amollg his Ol'tn community but one Begs1de resident

had put it ~ "tfe love to see h.1m in the Bogs1de -

but in ciVilian clothes f not 1n his un1fo:tla" .

The Minister said that changes mU$t berna4e :b1

th. pol1.oe force., This eQlild. involvctohana1nB the

name as well as theunJ.forll,. and. bre.ald.ng :it

up in 0 a nUX1lbe~o:f l<J·aal forQ.a.. Re then DrQUght

up the qu.est1on o:t complaJ.1li:. that the U .D •. R. ha4

h"ll ()U'tside pol11ng atat,i:ene in Oatbo110 area.

4urlna the local .~eotlou, and 1t we sa14 that

th$ local pe"pl. wcml4 have p •• 1terre4 the Br1 t 1a iu:'I'I.rY . The Searetary ot state said that, this, va$ a

perfeotly :tau oom)la1nt Which he would look 1nt,o.

He 'WQul.d also beeona1der1..ng further the whole queetlon

o~ polioe reform.

The Minie t ·er referred to repo~ts in Irish newspape::r8

dur1nS the week to the effeot toot aompensatloil 1.fi)uld

be: forthoomine for damage re ulting from 'the

o:rater1ng of border roa.C!f:J . In this context. Mr. White

said that the poa1tl·on, so tar as he was aware, wait

that the people, in the South shoaldeen4 th.l~

Claims to the Mirrlstl"Y ef 'Home· Aft'a1rs HI tu North or apply to th. eouris th.re . The S.,ret:ary

o:t State said h e ~ul.d 10Qk int o this qu •• "Oftot

e:ompensat1oft Ybloh the tti:n1etar aaid hadeause4 much

iXT'ltat 101\ in Bo'M.er ·u ·ea$ .

. ... / ...



~e Seora--tary of state them sal4 that the lb'1t1eh

Government were extremely gr&.t81\11 t-or the Border

cooperatJ.rm which haA betm reoeived and he ·woul.d like

to uprea., on. their-behalf, tAanke to the ,1l"1.eh

Pru. 1'Un1ster 'tor what had be_ 40ne lnth1e • ___ '.

'rh. IUal.t.er aO'knowl, ... .c flr. wtd.t.lav". HlD&rke

()Atldspo:!A1i ·and. then 1'ittene4 to the 'itua:t.loa

111 the eroiJem&gl.en area", whex-t l' was not olear

vhnlu.r the tJ-01(sle an •• · cm. the north.m or on the'

SOll'tham 81a.. 1:h.S ..... &17or State atdi that

there had be. trtmendou8 1Wlp~_:t 11\ th.

DOh.g$l.h~ area lJUta·ro&antagl.en was reall,.-.

dev1l." * so ma.uy solUera had bea. killed in that

area that the queat1.m'1 _a being ask." vb.the.

the%'e was much pain" 1Z1 Bending them. there it

they dJ'e go1D.g to be blGWU up. There fte also

still a problem 1n th. L1t1o'rciarea but it was

mtiCJh bet-t*r.. He. said that ·ooopent1on in these

areafJdependd ver"ll ltlUch onrel.at1o:ns between ,,~.

chap. on the ~un4.. . .:ra, aom80as ••• th.r. _"

,"tt.·r reJ.atj.. .. D8 thaJ11a oth._ an4 th18 we an.

a.p •• t , et a e:1tll8t:iQa that oO:Uld llGt 1>49$81i3"

eoht"lled troll the top. H •• ·aid hi8 people woUld

han tG go bull to the knty on •• .• OH an. he &f\lA .. td

to the Mlni:8t." that, h. 1I1iht418011.8 th. qu .. 11oa

0Jl ht.aid. 1d. th th. Mini.t.- tor n.ten •• '..1'he

probl.. 1ft th·. anaar ._ •• me4 ooull b., tollOYd

up through th. U8W chamtel. for vhteh 'bh.e,.

were TfIq grat.tu1, So far ae their 11" w19.

oGllc$;l"ne4., e. majol"' que.tl0Dwas that of landminee

tram which wires we·re ea1dto lead acro88tb.

Berdel'.

Th. Minister sai.cl tha1 repre.eI'ltat:1011s, had been

.. ' .. / .. .. '.



received :from looel minority politicians in the

Oroeamagl$ll area reg,ard1ng intimid.ation n the eourse

o~ loeal. el&etions althougtl. other report$ a1l8SQ8'ted

volun-ta,l"l absenteeism. Mr. l'ih1te trugB •• te4, that the

people in the area ndght be just aga.innt any govel."llla.nt,.

It was knoWll to the Army tl4 the wor,s,t a:I'\ea. Tbe

. 1n.1ster referred to reports abu.t roadblocks being

.ttt up. l'iIr. White said that he undsretood that on

th. Nortb.C'lrtl$lde a Q~refUlly arranged road bloOk with

pho"bof aphera present had been established to~'

twent y minutes be:tw~.n pat~o18 . ft1~, SeCl"$tary of Sta,ta

$a1d that the 't'ihol~ q'UEJ1lt1on. would be ~ther e:mmined,

on the line$; which he lilent1ol1eti, to see what oou.ld

be done.

The Minister then raised. the1Ylstter 0'1 the reoe:nt

oroaSing of the liJorie:r n.ar Olones by a Briti"h Army

unit. JIe sai4 that he had been wakened. a.t 4 a~m. .. and

folJ.owing consultat;L,ol'l with the1niaii.er for Justie_

an-dth e British Aml>assadt):r, taIld inability t o, gert in

toueh again with the Mild.eter :tor Justioe, hfit ha4

telephoned ,he looal pC;Jll,ce au.t hOJf1 tiN ill 0101'1.8.

On the bas1.o'f the ""."LOft ot the 1nt:t14ent given by

the <>tt10.~ in oh~g., of the British un1t he, ha' 1n41eated: the, td.sb~ Qf thelltomelltar1.l.y l'inconta,o'iabi.

Minister for Ju .,t .i.Q"e, to relea.se the man. SUbaeq;u'$»'t17 ..

irl'tonmt1ou reeetved did not cO'ftt1rm that .-el""U.on ·et·

the incide.nt. We :ou1<1 t1nd1 t ditfloul t to arrange

Quoll. a releas-e 11'1 tut~in vi . ~ of the !noonst.tency

ot the vers i()n given by thtt Bri. t 1sh Ilutho,ri tie.s

oonoerned. !rhe 8'6'o,ratary Qf s tate sa.id that he had

sot ''hot under the ool.le.r'l'f when he read a.bout the

incident on his arr1 va l in Belfast. :But he understood



-26-

t .ha.t the Ul'lit a d. j ust rea d lts map ~'lrong .

Tbe ~ 1n1ste:t' said that the sto;ry given just d1«n t t

add up • The tuli t first w_n"t through the Re.publiC)

to a man I s: hous e on th~ lJord&r. In j.Ja.c1i.. the

Border 'r'Iln.$ thl"'OUgh t his aQuae . This maA bd

been in troubl:e in the North before and the un! t

had t~iea t() get int o ht·s house by means of Si road

in the R·apublio. They then went on tD 010l'l$$ but

the· stGt')" tb$Y gave ()f this route was lloteapatibl..

with the te.ct that they had sone to th.e hGUIUt, 'on the

:.Border" The Seoretary of State aid that he would

bave this matter taken up with the. Batt alion

Commander, if th& faots were sent on to him.

Mr " White said he assumed that the usual. forma.l

report WGlUd have been sent in by the Oommander "

The rU.n1st.r pOinted out . ho~ever, t hat the Army

O;ffioer t setQI'Y did not hang· together . There lla.S

no t'e.ier$nee 1n it t () oall1ng a t the houeeOfl the

Borde%'. Moreove,r the unit ola1medto have been

On a road block patroL but had with them. only

one lieWt torCh and no oth$l' a.pprop:rilate ,eqUipment

tor suoh a. duty. a$ message' Irom the Mlnister' tor

Justioe was: "If you get a sa.'ti&ftiWtor~ .xplanatl.on,

release the men·t• 8.1.11O'e he had p,ase.e , on thi,

.1nst1"Uo,tlon to relea.se, hEl n&w felt that he 84, h.~n

nha4u .. Be oould arl!'e.nge for a t'sport to b&eent to

th~ Brl tiah side . Thfl 8e'o~etary of State prODl1$&d

to talk to the G.O.O . o.n,d ttfr . Vhite of the F.O .. O~

$.lso proraiead aotion to as-eertain the true t ao:ts ..

p,o,'tI.Vgt;Ly The M1nisterexpressed ooncern about the J.1mltat1on

of facilities for postal voting .for the Assembly.

Re8pond.ing, the Secre'tary of S"toate firs t of all

.' ... / . .. .



- 27-

atated that la. owtaitt story oanoern1ng th.~ all>8ged

eJ'fcrt 01 th() Lord Chief Ju.'a"t±o'$ to vote by post 11\

the looal e19~t1Qt1s waa a 'fabl"1$a.t1on., He 8a14 that

pr otica~ problem behi.nd the :t"Ulee 'f'or

;postal. vcrting .. The problem waatt.tat the looal

eleotiGns and the Assembly wer~ .80010.$6 toge.ther

th-at the el~otora1maehine':ry was not av; lIable t o

enable' se .. ar a te postal voting l iets t o be set, up.

~h.refo:re" they had to stlY': nIf you 1'. o.;nt t Et Assembly

postal rotE! , you. must a- ply :'\lee 01' a post 1 vot,~ in

the l oca l el$ctionsif . ( Those iho h E;'A. used the postal

voting i ll tJrJ.s Border Poll w(ll'e lliu 't olilat:LoaI1y 1ncl~ded

in the l i.s t fOO;" the two l a:tar polle!).. They had pab11e1sed

this reqUirem..,nt ~md ·lould lik to help bv.t there 't'las

thiB pr a ot:1.cal p.,.:;;lem a bout the l ack of la fUll electoral

lllaQh1nery. fIe $ id that they had not :receiveci a great

mMfJUl~f) of. cemplt:.m 't.a. ~he: Min1stet" ~aid that W$

had 'been gettin8 oompla int s fro.m (1) thoce who

dJ-bft know about the r equirements at all and (2) t hos.

who , a s a. result of .1oo-a lelections l lri shed to obtain,

becau.s e of int imidation at the loealeleo-t1one , p~s;al.

vot·es for the Assem'bJ.y .> Th1o;i si tuat10n was most , a.eute

in plaoes lik.e Oroa'~nnal;len and Andersonst 01fn whiire

the :Pr~voi! had int 1m1da.'ted. and stoppoo poopla ~1ng to

th$ polls . There were eompla1nta t hat the Army didn.' t

come out t o protaot yotera in the And rsonstown al'ea. .

The Secretary of St ate ex})reased doubt about this ~attel"

c,_plaint but said t ha t he 'I,'lfould $tep up rmy l'r ,otect ion

for' the Assembly elcections ., El ji.1:i.nister" emphasising

the point , drew att enl.oion t o the Imf vote in

AndEtrsCD atown . lie a lso referred -to. the taking o.f

photographs by :British sol ider,s outs1de two PQll1ng

s.tat 1o:n a • Th$Seoretary of a tat$srd(1 that th~re

.' .. / .. .



.bad been one photographer involYec!. &elongUl.g

to t-l1eTh1.rd P'araa ., and the ae1d.8tlt took

p,laoa in . 'the Ardop$ t6 :heeamera had berm.

r~Ocv.1l fl'Gl11 h1ln. ana. 'ihe t;ila. destroyed.

~~. Paldy Devl1n W'h(\) had. _4., the oomp:laat

was ·.at1$tle4 U thi.. ~·aari·.· fil. lUal .• '_

,yesa • . 'i,O'l' _.S _it._1 •.• , the A._.-b17 ,..tal

vet. t01." pe&,l., a a".~l.a ·aDd AlI4e~.enat ....

WO'U.li thtlS· •• e:t&l7 oif Sta". look at VA. pG.at 'C1.a

i.»;, ,... t~, tu"t .. ? lIIr. Whl te:law in re:pl;¥'

.Q.t.d that l!1e weul.t.

Be1or. p.r_.e~ t ie a genen.ld.180'U.Ssl0110f th.

poUtiQa). $1tU\1 • . th. muet:el:' F"",," to

H p-re •• ~t'at·1~1ta. he had ro.oe1.ve4 'Qoncem;a:q the

tUl't:titlff up 01 a o~ t y "."Ql:opmen't off:l0.

in 't'll. Nort:h-weet area around. Der.t7 .. (fh" ••

repre1tentat1ol1s .ba4 come fl".(b the D,eputment o.f

P'lyQhtatry U IT,,.G.D .. thr~ugh Dr.I-vol" Bro~.,

fhe S:eCH·tary ",·f State said that he W'aSaware

of 'he Pl'\\)}iu,sal an~ was &1.0 conceme" aboui

the neea for 'dmJIlar h$1,11'1 lnumt.al.la .he,..

lb.l" I. ~R.A ... ha4 laSad .-08:4. He prDlll: ... a to

look. ate tbpo8,81blli q o~tur-th.r1n& 'the ••

two pHP08e.l fl.

The HUd...'." ..at. Mr'. WhlteUw by h. 'till" lb.:.

altuat;1oft .... vol.,iltg la th. It&nk '. "'ill , ••

VUonl.t 814. u.ct Vi "11 the SDU,. •• ,'" .. .,

0:1 State aat4 that h. tlurlupt .* IDLP ba«

40ae - .,'0117 ".11 U ill tbe l..,oal ,elM"1.... a. beU .. w4: \h$.t tb., hd d$ne· ' ... ., bl"tu _11 all

the,. haf. hop.' u.a .M'81l allghtlJ' be.'''.'''. they

should 40 ",enbe·t'ter in the Aasembl1 1fl 'eot1Qn.



.... 29 -

One mi e;ht wonder' whether tbie was good or not"

to the, extent that the support, they wou1d rece1ve

YOuld beat thGUp !lS. of tb. Alliance.. Untortuate11.

the Union:1.S'til had gi.ven their' second erul lat ••

:pre.tere.eea t.Q th. h8rcl-Uaaou4idatea x-ath •• taan

to the A1l1anee'. ~h. a.thoUclIf II1p't 'well take ut.:

.f t ht,.. parlle1lllarl1" thos. who ba4 gt..,.n tn.tr

.. OOM PJl.:terenc. .. to 'the All1SJ1te 1Il th. looel.

14",,,10118. _4 might wt,. oalV ror th.il" own.

o.~ta1a terutenc1e,$ 1A that 411'eO:1.£e o,cnll..du. ....

al,;pea41 , As to the 10:.1.,. O_poettlOll 0:1 the

' ••• b17, he thousht tb" •• S1)L) wodel •• ,

'lr0JA 10tcl'.eata_ ft- JI1a1d,er :remarke4 ~hat

t :hey had \e. 'talid.ng ne.r-oJt't1m1wt1caUr ot' f8

to 25" !the Seuetary ot: Sta.t(t said. he- was

plepare4 to go as tu as t ~ to t5 ae 9. reasonabl..

:figure ftJ;;t the Sl)L!". -l'he Alliance would eet . .,

p.rhaps. 10 aeate. this mi,ght g1ve anything 'tJrOJa

25 to 28 to a SllU-.Ul1ance ~1ng" 1!he o;ft'ic1al

l1uo1U.ste were ~.ote4 to get 25 -to ,0 .eat ••

_. w.aa atra14 that th. ,jte.181.""'O~8poUJ woult

P'IlU1te A _8aid·.ra'bl. 11l.Ul_1"lI •• K1l11et.r

que.r1.d.tltl latt.r poae1'blUt7 ·...11&14 ~t

th.y ha4 not 'done tbAt 011 111 th., 1.calel •• tlOQ

to wh10h lttr. Whit_law napo.clM that, th., .0-0&11_4 ca,"tied

l]n.lcm1ataweN them •• l .... ",a .... !'1l1lisM bUG"'.

As ,fo~ the A8 •• ltl,J ea.n414atu. 'F_lb •. !' ._

not BUret wheH ,... 'tf6:J' •••• ,tte· 'the 1nel.,t.n-04tQI1

a lotalt7 pl.qe. Re ,414 not ihtrlk the pl.aa. aeant "err lTl\lCh.. SOJ!le wh'G ha4tak·g the pld&'*

haA al.ready shown theuelves untru.etvol"th7. lA

his view ,. the _JorcoJ1cen w.s: that the SDLP

must not sttOD to tb. hook ot "we won't ·e8"_ wlth laulldler-. !his also appuet to the

, ..... / ... "



All!.anee Party., Et'tQrta!l1US't be made to get 'ha

away .bom perSOnal.l tr ;POSit·tons. R. _ • . soaa to have a private wol'4 1fi th a._noy .F1 t't GJl th.iabut

he We,8t\ot :sur. whethe. ~G.!'l7 oan ~olltrol th.othen1f •

As recar<lethe il\t8~t 188\1f. there was q

lfUl\eatt7 1Dl,roV'tment" Ut *""r1 tv which Muld "

'otroyed. it tbe final 200 tteft l.·t · out. In

hie view. this would 'be a o.,le'\·. dU •• ' •••

Mzt. Whit_law au~er1i· •• to tht Minister tha:t

.~t·orts might be . ade t:okeep the SDLP oft the

1nternrae.nt question until a:tts'r the' Aseembl,e·lec1;ions ..

It shoUld be possible to oonvinoe them then abOut

the d1eaatx-ous results that oouldoceur, 1t internment

were oompl.e1:el,y ended. 'Tb. El M1n1Bterremarked that

some wtnlldnot need conv1nc1ng. 'He saw the

uapopularit,y- of FaUlkneras the major .tumbling

Dl<:>Qk in pow.~$.har1nB,., Hatred ,of Fa\llJm.e.Jt was

such that 1 t woul be 41ft1oul t .0 t1ll4 peop1. 1.

,either ths SDLP oz- the Allianoe to work 'With bJ.lI.

'lh!. wu al'a.alproblem ••• peo1a.ll7 Gia4. F,a'.llmer

.... _4 to he· the onlJ' Unionist laadel" whQ ooul.d

~U7 hi$ ,~J' 'bald»« th. n.ey clc:matlmtlon.

j'tbJ. Wh1t.,la. acre'" that he .. 1n .1fec~ th_ onlJ' p.".,,_ who co:ud keep that "l1lOtle7ore.'W" to..-tht-r.

H·e wat 411 to' 8a1 thilt what h. (M"t". Whit.law).

wCU14 be. trJ1;ng toe&y d.Ur1rlg the' aoure-e or tb.'

elec'ion was' (1) that alleptlollS to the en.et

that th:. U .1:. Go"Vernment is trying to toro. the

North .into the South W~. quite r:1.dloul.ous, and

(:2) that it wereaoh 'the ' ;Oth March . 1974,. w1.thout

get.tin.g eo proper working ixacuiive and A.es_hl7 f

'the As.sembly will be d1.&801ve4and people 1n the

UIli te4 K1ngct0ll will aat 1h.:s.r Govermaeat to

10.011: ap1n at t h eir pol1cl' 1n tu .orill -h. wout



2he MWetel' remarkel that the met •• age lftightaleo

«et Qvel" too well t t) the ~1s1onals. 'rh.;

~h,cJ:-.tary: C!l Stet. said thatth1: was a good ,oat and he had been posed aqu: •• t1on about 1t Oh the

B.:B.,O. T. V. programme DU wh1Ch be appeared the

previQus evening . H,e had re:p1.ied that there wo\\1d.

be absol,u.telyn$ ohange in the r ,.solve 0"£ th.

Bntiah G·oYerz'l..ment Md people to do their dutY' 1l'l

respeet 0 '£ Northern I reJ.and ,. no matt.r what the

81 tuat 1on, t.ft)ul4 be OIl the'Oth March. 19'74 .

How.v,er. t here waG a .gl*eat 488.1 :e:t' anXiety abeuti

the movement !Q'! pU.bliC opinion a. lJritaln. Ht.

at t\tntloa had been drawn to an dvertie_ent in

the Ne. s te:te8tn8A th1s we_ caJ:Ung ~0r Br1ti$A

w1 thd"awal tromNor-them Ir • . l.and ani hi,It ,eopl .•

were aaal:78.1ng t he 'backgrood to I t , 1nolwU:q

the att11iattona ·af the· aut hors . The ,M1nieter

et1-U Ull"8Sed Qonoern about the a-tatemet ona

'OthMarohdateline., t o whlOh the Seoret&.ry '0'1

Sta te "spode4 by sayUla that "". have: BOt ·to

OClieen't.re.te the minds of the hot •• tants to sban

'POwer . '~e,1 2m18t not be allowed just to '11'11 'thttre

and dralf their pa.y".; 'rhe M1ni$ter again wondered

whether the SDU' wGuldaha re power vi th Fa.ul.ber all

Ob1e.:t ikeeut1. ve. '.Phe le,lt- win8 of the SllLP were

tlirta,g with a PaJ.sley/Oraig ooalition ..

Hr t WbJ. tela. responded "I would re'ally l1k . to a"lt

them What do they think thl.. wou.1.4 IU'8l'l". He sai4

tha;t Pat,a:te" POS8f1Ju...a.nextraord1nar7 tapa.tt1 t y

tor leapiJ'1g: a)()ut tb.Whole area of poUoJ.doina

eveqthins p08s1blft to ,un p.wer. a. cO\1lc1 , ••

., . 'it/ •• -.



nO m.eaningfUl 0'0al1 t1Qn of' t h1.s kind. The

Minister said t hat . leaving' Paisley aaide , ther.

was a eartain at tra,otion for some Ropubl1aana Ut

t b& Tayl,or .... Ol'a i g oonaept of U~8ter national! ••

If a coalit ion of t his kind developed., the

minority Qould beoomfJl'lost g4s within :a1"1ght-w1ng

Protestant State. He wae a.fraid that SOtn8 4c!utl

of this kind might be proPOfJe4 •. 1n~ olving the

4eparifure of the :ar1 t:1ah ~,. lbQ Seoreta17 of

Statesa.1d t hat 1t a "r()po8.d ~x$outiv. e-oa11t101l

prop-Ose' the vi h4rawalof the llri't1sh An!y,

he WQuld. not give, hie ~Ga$eat to the' fQ-l'II&ti-cm.

0'1 such an h.out! VG. The M1n1a·t.r ., at tbe MM'

time"wQnderfld wheth, .. such a coallt1:oJl could; ~.

the MU atld tb.G Seore-tM7 ot State 1S$.14 that

Br! tieh p-ubUo opinion would respond to tb&., bT

$8,Yina "let them get on with 1tft . The .'.101dng

point " ae h·e saw It, was f1:nanoe and what the,

wOUld hav~ t o ,lace was th. w1 thd~awalot :sri t1eh

money . The P>!1n1ster ~"t.d that the b'1t1d:

public might be pr.par$d t o pa, for such a solut1on

1~ the ,tu:m:y oou.ldbe· withdrawa. The S.O""8.1'"J'

of s ta te agreed that 1n such an eventuall ty the

minorit y oould get ato a dangerous 81tutlon.

Be said to, th. M1nlst.~l tt!rb.ere ~s nobody

betier than you to t1tren hem against: .uoh G

eventuality. I cannot: do it".. I~ h$ lXl&4e th.

at'b.pt. 80$$' would react 01' "oooltinga snOGlf"

at the ~ tiC Gov.:r~t.. The M.i,n1st.aa.14

that, 0J1 the W'bole . he&14 not t h1.nk th •

...,..tu,a11 t7 would ar1.·. fJino:. the ottla1al

t1aiouete')).flu14 gamtlllOu :s.ats to· pr*".t

the· pO •• 1b11ity" M:r,. Whlt,elaw etlree •• 4, ho"...,.r •

•.• • ,1. ,.



that t he 3DLP must be enoouraged, to gO 1nt(tan

E::iuJoutive w1 t h FauJ.kn~l". l{~ was awa:ret,hat ,,. ..

would 'ba, pl"$pared t ,Q dG, $0 . (La"~ell' h e sugefJted

Aust in. Qurri~as.on~)", Re agre&d with the M1:n.ist.r

that t here might hE.rve to be ,$. ftpaoka,ge deal ~t to

be wo:rkecl ou t iol.lowUlg thft Assembly ~l$(),tloM.

,.11owihg the to~ se.at_. 1nla'" e$n •• n&~l_.

Hr .. Whit.law $a1d that h6 4tnv1eage4 th. A88.b17

b&lftgoall.e" into .... ~ea •• _ 'tJae ,Ut 4ugqt ,.

elect a p'J' •• itl1nS ott!._. :tol1ow1n", lddOti it

wont! djOltftl to perm"tth. -.e._TJ n • .,t1.at,lo.

'to ~'On:t'ftitt. for the fofts/tieo( tbe :S ••• 't'!"iJ.

Hitt a'0l11d aot 8"'8 the Al'Js'. b11r 1t8eUag ,.1 .... _ ...

the U 'Oh. t 'tol'llont eh_'." bu't he ,~opoae4 that

they el\G'Ultl all td, t lac1!t~ 1J.ke' ~a'th.e -'1' e...t:

a ,ub1'. mEtfJtiag ?ath8tt''thaaaero8a th. tlO't:>Jii

tr&m ~3,(th crth:4r.theMiBiner fmqld.~' .7 th,.

sthould ha". to M ,et itl St~moni:l . Weft there no ..

'Other p~aoee in ~h1ch 18 l*ttpleoould me.t

t oge'bn:er? tJln.:torttmatel" Mr . Wh1 t • . law replied t

the UniOltlsts would ob,.,,'t it th_,. me'anphere

e,~s~ , at1d there 00'0,1. t. •• eour.1ty p,robl$lns ...

A ttke .a: ot thetQ,raal _ .. atOll.. ap-e __ ' was

ruohe4 '0Jl tbfl11n4: to tu.' w1 tit the Plie.. . ftle

$.ecre'tax'Y ct statel:~p_t .. & his ooneen aboQt

reaet1sn !nth. Prote.tent eo~ty sa th.lo""th

ant poes1bl.e f!ttnh.re~l.o1 tat10n '\7 Pal.'lAy ot

kOn.d.~/DUibltncf)nt_~t.,. tat_the lol.l6'W'1Jlg

statement. WB.8 1uuedon our side,. fQll0~



consultat ion with l\!r . K.D . MoDowall f ~lead ott the

lif0rthern IreLand Otfice I llformat1.Qll fl.n1ce,eu

!bere l::as a general exchan«_ ofvi·eW8

.<.m matters of eommo;a tn'te-reet zoel:atlllg

to Norihe·I'l1 I;telan4. t~l:er!uillil·ter sought

aad 1."Q.o611 vet! olar1t1cat:1ea ~11 !8. nube. .or tea.tu.rttt<l>f the NO"Fth.ra Ireland C,flneUtu"oa

lUl l .. i'he SteX'Elta;r:y ef State.lq)~ •••• " ~h.

thwe of the Bri t1 eh Goyel'!lUl~t tor ta. 1.m.proveu(t(l-operatlo11 b .• ing ftoe1ve4Q11 tht

Border.

Documents

NATIONAL ARCHIVES IRELAND...NATIONAL ARCHIVES IRELAND Reference Code: 2004/21/467 Title: Notes of a meeting between Minister for Foreign Affairs Garret FitzGerald and Secretary of