Mystery of the 358 Win

6/18/2015 Mysteryofthe.358Winchester

http://www.chuckhawks.com/358Win_mystery.htm 1/11

TheMysteryofthe.358Winchester

ByRickRyals

Ihavereadseveralarticlesaboutthe.358Winchester,includingChuckHawks'articleontheRifleCartridgePageofGunsandShootingOnline.BasedonwhatIhaveread,everyonewhohasusedthecartridgehashadnothingbuthighpraiseforit.Fromallaccountsitskillingpowerisoutstanding,farinexcessofwhatwouldbeexpectedfromitsmodestcasesizeoritspaperballistics.Itsrecoilismodestforthelevelofpoweritprovides.Theexpansionratiofor.35calibercartridgesisidealforshorterbarreledrifles.Thismeansthatthe.358canrealizeitsfullpotentialina20to22inchbarrelratherthanthe26inchbarrelneededformostmagnumcartridges.Thehugemysteryaboutthe.358Winchesterisitsincrediblelackofpopularity.

IhaveconsideredthevariousreasonsgivenforitsunpopularityandforeachreasonofferedIcannameothercartridgesforwhichthesamecouldbesaid,yetthesearepopularcartridges.IwouldliketolookateachofthereasonsIhavereadforitsfailureinthemarketplace,anddiscusstheirmerit.

HEAVYRECOIL

Heavyrecoilhaslongbeencitedforthefailureofsuchcartridgesasthe.358Winchesterandthe.350RemingtonMagnum.However,thereareothercartridgesthatrecoiljustasmuchormoreandwhichsellextremelywell.Thevarious.300magnumsareprimeexamples.Heavyrecoilissometimescitedasadisadvantageindiscussionsofthe.300's,butitcertainlyhasnothinderedtheirpopularity.

The.300WinchesterMagnumwitha180grainbulletat2960fpsdelivers25.9footpoundsofrecoilfroman8.5poundrifle.Asacomparison,the.358Winchesterwitha250grainbulletat2300fpsdelivers25.4footpoundsofrecoilfroma7.5pound



rifle.Soweseethatevenwithaonepoundlighterrifle,the.358recoilsslightlylessthana.300magnum.

Let'salsocomparethe.358withtheotherendofthespectrum.The.4570isanotherverypopularcartridge.A300grainbulletlaunchedat1800fpsfroman8poundriflegenerates22.5footpoundsofrecoil.The405grainbulletat1330fpsgeneratesaround22.8footpounds.Thesearethestandardlowpressureloads.Withhotterloadsformodernhighstrengthrifles,the.4570willpusha350grainbulletat2100fps,providing36.4footpoundsofrecoilfroman8poundrifle.Eventhelight.4570loadsareinthevicinityofthe.358recoil,whiletheheavyloadsfarexceedit.

Weseethattherearepopularcartridgesthatgeneraterecoilequaltoorexceedingthatofthe.358Winchester.Recoilalonedoesnotkeepacartridgefrombecomingpopular.

LOWVELOCITY

Thisisanothercriticismofthe.358Winchester.Let'sseehowitcomparesherewithotherpopularcartridges.Withmaximumpowderchargesthe.358canprovidethefollowingvelocitiesfromvariousbulletweights:

.358Winchester,180grainbulletat27002800fps.358Winchester,200grainbulletat25002600fps.358Winchester,225grainbulletat24002500fps.358Winchester,250grainbulletat22002300fps

Thesearetypicalvelocitiesforthevariousbulletweightsandsuchloadsarelistedinseveralreloadingmanualswithavarietyofpowders.The.358WinchesterSuperXfactoryloaddrivesa200grainSilvertipbulletataMVof2490fps.Howdoesthiscomparewiththevelocitiesofothercartridges?

.308Winchester,150grainbulletat2820fps



.300WinchesterMagnum,150grainbulletat3290fps



.300WinchesterMagnum,180grainbulletat2960fps.338WinchesterMagnum,200grainbulletat2950fps.338WinchesterMagnum,250grainbulletat2660fps.4570Government,300grainbulletat1810fps.4570Government,350grainbulletat2100fps.4570Government,405grainbulletat1330fps

The.358runsanywherefrom100to300fpsbehindthevelocitiesofthe.308Winchester,approximately600fpsbehindthe.300WinchesterMagnumand250to350fpsbehindthe.338WinchesterMagnum.Itisaround900fpsfasterthanthelowpressure.4570loadsandabout200fpsfasterthatthehighpressure350grainload.

Thesecomparisonsareforbulletsofcomparablesectionaldensityand/orintendedusage.Whilethe.358comesinsecondplacetothehighintensitysmallerboresandmagnums,itclearlyoutdistancestheincreasinglypopular.4570bigboreinthevelocityrace.

WheneverIhaveconsideredthe.358'sunpopularityIhavelongbelieveditduetoitsmoderatevelocity,butthenInoticedthe.4570anditsincreasingpopularityinrecentyears.Howdoweexplainthis,consideringthatthevelocityofthatoldcartridgeisanemiccomparedtothe.358?Itisamysterytome.

Sincevelocityaffectsbothtrajectoryandenergy,let'slookatthemnext.

TRAJECTORY

Shortrangetrajectoryisanotherreasonproposedforthe.358'sunpopularity.Let'scompareitstrajectorywithotherpopularcartridgestoseeifthiscriticismisvalid.Tosimplifythings,wewillcomparethemaximumpointblankrangeofvariouscartridgestoseehowthe.358stacksup.

.308Winchester,150grainat2820fpsMPBR264yards.308Winchester,165grainat2700fpsMPBR260yards.308Winchester,180grainat2620fpsMPBR250yards



.300WinchesterMagnum,150grainat3290fpsMPBR300yards.300WinchesterMagnum,180grainat2960fpsMPBR284yards.338WinchesterMagnum,200grainat2950fpsMPBR289yards.338WinchesterMagnum,250grainat2660fpsMPBR265yards.358Winchester,180grainat2700fpsMPBR255yards.358Winchester,200grainat2500fpsMPBR237yards.358Winchester,250grainat2300fpsMPBR227yards.4570Government,300grainat1810fpsMPBR164yards.4570Government,405grainat1330fpsMPBR130yards

Withbulletweightsfordeersizedgame,the.358doesn'tdonearlyasbadasitsreputationwouldleadyoutobelieve.Using180grainbullets,anumberofreloadingmanualsshowloadsthatmeetorexceed2700fps.ThiswillprovideaMPBRofaround255yards,whichiscomparabletothe.308witha150or165grainbullet.The.308isnotusuallyconsideredashortrangecartridge.Notealsothatthisisonly30yardsshyoftheMPBRofthe.300WinchesterMagnumwith180grainbullets.

Nextuparebulletweightssuitableforacombinationofgame.Forthe.358thisincludes200to225grainbullets.A200grainbulletcanbeloadedinexcessof2500fps,foraMPBRof237yards.Thisisabout23yardsbehindthe.308with165grainbulletsand47yardsbehindthe.300WinchesterMagnumwith180grainbullets.

Finally,let'slookatbulletweightsforthelargestNorthAmericangame.The.358willpush250grainbulletsaround2300fpsforaMPBRof227yards.The.338WinchesterMagnumpushesa250grainbulletat2660fpsforaMPBRof265yards.Weseethatthe.338hasa38yardadvantage.

Themagnumfanwillsay,"See,mymagnumhasamuchflattertrajectory."Sowhatdoesthisbuyus?Inotherwords,whatadvantagedowegainfromtheextraweight,barrellength,recoil,andmuzzleblastofamagnumoverourlittle.358?About50



yardsadvantageinmaximumpointblankrangewiththe.300magnum.Witha.338magnumtheadvantagedropstoabout40yards.

Whatdoesthismeanintherealworld?Sincethevastmajorityofgameisharvestedat200yardsorless,itmeansverylittle.Ifyoureallyplanonhuntingatrangesexceeding200to250yardsyoushouldhavearangefinder.Youshouldalsoshootyourrifleattheselongerrangestodeterminewhereitactuallyhitsatvariousranges.Ifyoudothisyoucanaccuratelydeterminethedistancetothetarget(oranimal),andyouwillknowwheretoholdforafirstshothit.Sincethismethodcanbeusedwhetheryouusea.358ora.300magnum,thesupposed40to50yardadvantagevirtuallydisappears.Ifyouarenotwillingtodothis,youhavenobusinessshootingatliveanimalspast200250yardsanyway.

Iwouldalsoliketolookatthetrajectoryissuefromanotherperspective.The.358hasamuchflattertrajectorythanthevenerable.4570,butthatcartridgeenjoysgreatpopularity.Infact,the.358hasclosetoa100yardadvantageinMPBRovertheoldbigbore.Butapparentlythe.358doesnothavethehistoricalromanceoftheoldbigbore.Itistrulyoneoftheunsungbluecollarworkersintheworldofcartridges.Itsimplydoesthejobanddoesitverywellwithaminimumoffuss.Meanwhile,everyoneisoohingandaahingoverthesexymagnumsorplayingOldWestBuffaloHunterwithbigbores.

ENERGY

Hereisacomparisonoftheenergyfiguresforvariouscartridges:

.308Winchester,150grainat2820fps2648footpoundsmuzzleenergy.308Winchester,165grainat2700fps2679footpoundsmuzzleenergy.308Winchester,180grainat2620fps2743footpoundsmuzzleenergy.300WinchesterMagnum,150grainat3290fps3606footpoundsmuzzleenergy.300WinchesterMagnum,180grainat2960fps3503footpoundsmuzzleenergy.338WinchesterMagnum,200grainat2950fps3890footpoundsmuzzleenergy



.338WinchesterMagnum,250grainat2660fps3899footpoundsmuzzleenergy.358Winchester,180grainat2700fps2914footpoundsmuzzleenergy.358Winchester,200grainat2500fps2776footpoundsmuzzleenergy.358Winchester,250grainat2300fps2936footpoundsmuzzleenergy.4570Government,300grainat1810fps2183footpoundsmuzzleenergy.4570Government,350grainat2100fps3428footpoundsmuzzleenergy.4570Government,405grainat1330fps1591footpoundsmuzzleenergy

The.358hasa200300ft.lb.advantageoverthe.308.Ithasa600700ft.lb.deficittothe.300magnumand9001000ft.lb.deficittothe.338magnum.Ithasa6001300ft.lb.advantageoverthelowpressure.4570loads,anda500ft.lb.deficittothehighpressure.4570load.

The.358'senergylevelfallsamazinglyclosetothemiddleofthepackcomparedtotheseothercartridges.Allofthesearefinehuntingcartridges,eachcapableofprovidingaquickandhumanekillwithintheirrangelimitations.Comparethe.358'senergyandvelocitytothe405grain4570load.Yetthis405grainloadwasusedtokillbisonbythethousandsby19thCenturyhunters.

Infact,the.358'senergylevelisveryclosetothe3006,whileitthrowsmediumboreslugsatmoderatevelocities.2400fpshaslongbeenadvocatedasanidealvelocityforpenetrationwithmediumtolargeboreAfricancartridges.Sowhiletheenergyproducedbythe.358fallsbelowthatofthelargecasedmagnums,itsboresizeandvelocitywiththeheavierbulletsgivesitkillingpowerfarinexcessofitspaperballistics.

Keepinmindthattheenergyadvantageofthesmallboremagnumsisduetotheirhighvelocity.Whilethereareafewhighvelocitycartridgesintendedfordangerousgame,thegreatmajorityofthesecartridgesfallintothemediumvelocity,heavybulletcategory.Thefactthatthe.358alsocombinesthesedesirabletraitsshouldmakeusstopandthink.

RIFLEAVAILABILITY



Thiscriticismofthe.358,unfortunately,istrue.Atthetimeofthiswriting,onlytheBrowningBLRleveractionandtheRugerM77HawkeyeandFrontierboltactionriflesarechamberedforthe.358.IfyoulikeleveractionstheBLRisanexcellentchoice.Itisastrong,welldesignedaction.Itisalsolightandcompact,whichcapitalizesononeofthemajorvirtuesofthecartridge.Ithasbeenavailableforseveralyearswithbluedmetalandwalnutstock,andBrowninghasrecentlyintroducedastainlesssteelversionwithagreylaminatestock.Thisgivesyouthechoiceoftraditionalbeautyorgreaterweatherresistance.JonWolfehaswrittenanexcellentreviewofthisriflethatcanbefoundontheProductReviewPageofGunsandShootingOnline.

Ifyouwantaboltaction,thenewRugerHawkeyewouldseemtobethewaytogo,asitisamorepracticalgeneralpurposehuntingriflethanthe"scout"styleFrontier.(Thelatterwouldbeagoodchoiceasa"guiderifle"typearmcarriedforprotection,though.)TheRugerM77actionisanexcellentone,offeringpushfeedandtheusualcommercialMauser98featuresthathavemadethattypeofactionsowellregarded.

Ifyoudon'tliketheBLRortheRugerM77youwilleitherneedtofindyour.358ontheusedmarket,orderasemicustomriflefromacompanylikeNewUltraLightArms,ororderabarreledactionfromacompanyliketheMontanaRifleCompanyandputitinastock.Or,youcouldchoosetohaveanexistingriflerebarreledto.358Win.

Itturnsoutthat.358Winchesterisararecaliberinvirtuallyalloftheriflesthatwereoncechamberedforit(Win.M70,Win.M88,SavageM99).Becauseofthis,inadditiontothedifficultyoffindingaused.358rifle,theydemandpremiumpricesthattypicallyexceed$1000.Asemicustomrifle,suchasNewUltraLightArmsbuilds,isgoingtosetyoubackmorethantwogrand.

AbarreledactionfromtheMontanaRifleCompanyrunsaround$900.AfinishedstockfromBoyd'sisaround$150.Thesearenotbadbuttheydorequiresomeminorinletting,andthewoodtometalfitisnotperfect.AhigherqualitystockisavailablefromAccurateInnovations.Theycanprovidefinishedstocksinsemifancyclarowalnutfor$355,



orabrownorgraylaminatefor$325.(SeeChuckHawks'reviewofAccurateInnovationsstocksontheRifleInformationPage.)Thisoptionwillgiveyouacomplete,semicustomrifleforaround$1050to$1250.

Ifyouhaveanexistingshortactionriflethatyoucanspare,arebarreljobisapossiblealternative.AbarrelmanufacturerlikeE.R.Shawcaninstallanewbarrelonyourrifleforlessthan$300.Withthisoptionyouwilllikelyhavetoreinletthebarrelchannelofyourstocktofitthenewbarrel.

Thisseemstobeoneofthoseselfperpetuatingproblems.Duetothe.358'sunpopularityitisunlikelythatmostgunmakerswillchamberitintheirrifles.However,itslackofavailabilityinavarietyofriflesinturncontributestoitsunpopularity.WecanonlyhopethattheBLRandtheRugerboltactionswillsellwellenoughin.358forothermanufacturerstotakenotice.

CARTRIDGESELECTION

Thisisrelatedtotherifleavailabilityproblem.Thishasbeenanegativefactorforthe.358fromthebeginning.AsfarasIamaware,Winchesterhasbeentheonlymajorammunitionfactorytoload.358cartridges.TheavailabilityofavarietyofloadingsfromsmallercompanieslikeStarsandStripesisapositivesign.However,suchcompaniesarenotwidelyknowntotheaverageshooter.UntilIreadaboutStarsandStripesonGunsandShootingOnline,Iwasunawareoftheirexistence.

Becauseofthelimitedselectionoffactoryammunition,the.358haslongbeenahandloaders'cartridge.Thehandloaderhasawideselectionofbulletsavailablefrom180to250grains.Withthisrangeofbulletweightsonecanloadforanythingfrompronghorntoelkandmoose.

180grainbulletscanbeloadedto2700fpswithawidevarietyofpowders,andthereareafewpowdersshowntoprovide2800fps.Thiswouldbearelativelyflatshootingloadforpronghornordeeroutto300yards.

220or225grainbulletscanbeloadedtobetween2400and2500fpswithseveralpowders.These



bulletswouldbesuitablefordeersizedgameonupthroughelkandmoose.

Witha250grainbulletloadedto2300fps,youcouldeventakeonthebigbearsofthenorth.ThenewsuperbulletsliketheBarnesTSXprovideanotheralternative.TheBarnes225grainTSXloadedto24002500fpsmightmaketheultimateallaroundlargegameloadforNorthAmericanhuntingwiththe.358.

WOODSCARTRIDGE

Ibelievethisperceptionhasdonemoretodamagethe.358'spotentialpopularitythananythingelse.Manywritershavetriedtoburyitwiththeepitaph,"It'safinelittlewoodscartridge."Whileitcancertainlybeusedasawoodscartridge,the.358isclearly,byanymeasure,morethanawoodscartridge.The.338or.375magnumscouldalsobeusedaswoodscartridges,butnoonewouldtrytolimittheirusetosuch.

Thisisnottosuggestthatthe.358isinthesameclassasthesecartridges.However,callingita"woodscartridge"suggeststhatitisintheclassofthe.32Specialorthe.35Remington.Whilethesearebothexcellentdeercartridges,attemptingtoincludethe.358Winchesterintheirclassdoesitagreatinjustice.The.358isclearlyamuchmorepowerfulcartridge,capableoftakingamuchwidervarietyofgame,especiallylargergame,atlongerranges.Itiswithin100fpsofthe.35WhelenwithallbulletweightsandIhaveneverseenthatreferredtoasa"woodscartridge."

Gunwritershavethepoweroflifeanddeathoverriflecartridges.Theyhaveoftenwieldedthispowertocrippleenormouslyusefulcartridges,andthe.358Winchesterhasbeenoneoftheirvictims.Ithasbeendepictedoverandover,bothinmagazinesandreloadingmanuals,asashortrangewoodscartridge.Thisperception,morethananythingelse,mayexplainthemysteryofthe.358'sunpopularity.

CONCLUSION

Thelargecasemagnumstypicallyhavetheadvantagesoffastervelocity,flattertrajectoryandhigherenergythanstandardcartridges.The



magnumshavebeenusedbymanyfolktotakeavarietyofgame.Itwouldbeirrationaltoargueagainsttheireffectiveness.

Theirdownsideisthattheyrequirelongerbarreled,heavierriflesandgenerateenormousrecoilandmuzzleblast.Sincemanyinstallmuzzlebrakestotametheirheavyrecoil,themuzzleblastcanbecomeliterallydeafening.Manyhuntersdonotmindcarryinglong,heavyriflesandcanendureheavyrecoilandmuzzleblast.Forthemthemagnumsmaybeagreatchoice.However,formanyofusashorter,lighterrifleisawelcomething.

The.358canbebuiltasashort,handyrifle,unlikethe.300and.338magnums.Yetthecartridgeispowerfulenoughforthelargestanimalsonthiscontinent,whilenotbeingtoomuchfordeer.Infact,the.358fitsneatlybetweenthestandard.30calibersandthegrandold.4570andoffersthebestofbothworlds.Itprovideskillingpowersimilartotheclassicbigboreandatthesametimehasatrajectorythatisclosetothe.308and.3006.Itwillprovideamaximumpointblankrangeof230to260yards,whichwouldbealongshotforme(andthegreatmajorityofhunters)underfieldconditions.

Ibelieveitisanoutstandingblendofboresize,killingpower,reasonabletrajectoryandmoderaterecoilthatcanbehadinacompactallaroundrifleforNorthAmericanhunting.ToquoteafamousAlaskanguide,HalWaugh,the.358Winchesterisoneofthe"finestlittlebigguns"evertocomealong.Thegreatmysterytomeiswhysofewseemtoagree.

Note:Anarticleaboutthe.358Win.aswellascomparisonsinvolvingthe.358Win.canbefoundontheRifleCartridgePage.

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Copyright2006,2013byRickRyalsand/orchuckhawks.com.Allrightsreserved.

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Mystery of the 358 Win