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THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT

THE UNIVERSITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK

In the Matter ofNEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

v.

CHRISTINE RUBINO

Section 3020-a Education Law Proceeding (File #17,116)

DATE: February 17, 2011

TIME: 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.

LOCATION: NYC Department of Education

Office of Legal Services

49-51 Chambers Street

New York, NY 10007

BEFORE: RANDI LOWITT, ESQ.

HEARING OFFICER

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2-17-11 In the matter of Ms. Rubino

Ubiqus Reporting, Inc. 2-17-11 In the matter of Ms. Rubino

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INDEXAPPEARANCES:

FOR THE COMPLAINANT:JEFFREY GAMILS, ESQ., of CounselNYC Department of EducationOffice of Legal Services49-51 Chambers Street

New York, NY 10007Telephone: (212) 374-6741

FOR THE RESPONDENT:

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INDEXW I T N E S S E S

Name: Page:[None]

E X H I B I T SRESPONDENT DESCRIPTION I.D. IN EV.[None]

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DESCRIPTION I.D. IN EV.[None]

331 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 (The hearing commenced at 10:00 a.m.)3 THE HEARING OFFICER: On the record, please.4 Good morning. We are on the record in the case of Ms.5 Christine Rubino, SED number 17,116. I am present.6 Also present, on my left?

7 MR. JEFFREY GAMILS: For the Department,8 Jeffrey Gamils, G-A-M-I-L-S.9 THE HEARING OFFICER: On my right?

10 MS. CHRISTINE RUBINO: Ms. Christine Rubino.11 THE HEARING OFFICER: And, uh, to my12 understanding, Ms. Rubino, you had asked for and have13 continued to ask for a public hearing. So there is14 somebody else present in the room. Please state your15 name.16 MS. BETSY COMBIER: Yes. Betsy Combier, C-17 O-M-B-I-E-R.18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Now, just some19 matters before we begin. It was made apparent20 yesterday, during the prehearing conference, that Ms.21 Rubino would be seeking other counsel. I received an22 email yesterday afternoon at 3:36 p.m. from Mr. Shawn23 Kelly [phonetic] to Ms. Andrea Chalaka [phonetic], Mr.24 Jeff Gamils, me, and copying Mr. Claude Hersch25 [phonetic], informing us that Ms. Rubino is not being

341 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 represented by NYSUT anymore, effective, I guess, 3:303 yesterday.4 I then received a phone call at 4:105 yesterday afternoon from a gentleman named Mr. Brian6 Glass. Mr. Glass said he had not yet been retained by7 Ms. Rubino, but he expected to be retained by Ms.8 Rubino, and that he could not attend today's hearing9 and he asked for an adjournment. I explained to him

10 that under the circumstances and under all of the11 agreements between the parties to which Ms. Rubino was12 bound, no adjournment would be granted. And we left13 it at that. I subsequently never heard from him. I14 don't know if he has been retained, if he has not been

15 retained. I don't know where we stand in the way of16 Ms. Rubino retaining counsel. Ms. Rubino, would you17 speak?18 MS. RUBINO: May I?19 THE HEARING OFFICER: You may.20 MS. RUBINO: Yesterday, I took the file. I21 had to get the file from Mr. Kelly.22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh.23 MS. RUBINO: I took it and brought it to Mr.24 Glass. I waited outside his office and explained that25 I would be retaining him, but since I'm a single



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351 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 mother, I needed a day to raise the $5,000 fee for his3 services.4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh.5 MS. RUBINO: And that I would speak to him6 today. He was with me when he spoke to you and

7 explained that he had just gotten the thing and I had8 just gotten the packet. So I would like to read it.9 I really haven't been given much time. Once I left

10 Mr. Glass, I went home to my two children and was11 enthralled in homework and bath and bedtime. So I12 could not read that. I would like to have some time13 to read this and go through the documents. I need a14 good hour or two. And Mr. Glass will get his money by15 the end of today or tomorrow, so that he can take on16 the case. So, right now, I have no counsel.17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Mr. Gamils?18 MR. GAMILS: Just for the record, based on19 the prehearing conference that was held yesterday, the20 Department was ordered to produce certain student21 records and some additional discovery. Based on the22 instructions from the Hearing Officer, we waited to do23 that until we go confirmation of who was representing24 Ms. Rubino. I did receive an email from Mr. Kelly at25 approximately 3:36 yesterday.

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361 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's the one I3 referenced?4 MR. GAMILS: Correct. Stating that he was5 no longer representing Ms. Rubino and NYSUT, in fact,6 was no longer representing Ms. Rubino.7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Right.8 MR. GAMILS: I reached out to Mr. Glass. My9 first attempt was by phone but his voice box was full.

10 He was not accepting any voicemail messages. I also11 emailed him. I did get a response this morning at12 9:05 stating that Mr. Glass--well, I'll read the email13 as it's--as he wrote it to me. Mr. Gamils, I have not14 been retained on this case. I will be in contact

15 should this occur. And that was at 9:05 this morning.16 So, as of--as of this point in time, the Department17 does not know who is representing Ms. Rubino, and we18 still are in possession of the additional discovery19 documents, the student records, and the handwritten20 notes from Principal Esposito [phonetic].21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Ms. Rubino?22 MS. RUBINO: I also received an email from23 Mr. Glass, telling me what he needs for me to retain24 him. And I sent him an email that I would get to him25 at the end of the day because I'm here.

371 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.3 MS. RUBINO: I definitely need time to look4 over this stuff for myself. I don't know what is5 there because--6 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] What's

7 there is what Mr. Kelly requested yesterday.8 MS. RUBINO: Okay.9 THE HEARING OFFICER: He requested that I--

10 well, he requested copies of the student records. The11 Department said that they would turn over whatever I12 commanded be turned over. But they asked me to do13 what's called an in camera review, which is I review14 the records by myself and make a determination.15 MS. RUBINO: Okay.16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Subsequent to my17 review of the records, I determined that certain18 things be turned over. I notified Mr. Gamils and I19 assume that that's what is there, along with--if I'm20 not mistaken, yesterday you mentioned handwritten21 notes that the principal had made, prior to, I guess,22 putting things down in official form, but that you23 were going to get copies of the handwritten notes.24 And I assume that that's what you have as well.25 MR. GAMILS: That's what they are, yes.

381 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 THE HEARING OFFICER: And that's what you3 are prepared to turn over?4 MR. GAMILS: Correct. And yesterday, before5 Ms. Rubino dismissed Mr. Kelly, we were able to rush6 over a copy of her personnel file.7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. So that was the8 third thing. So that has been handed over?9 MR. GAMILS: Correct.

10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. So, Ms. Rubino,11 I understand that you have not yet retained counsel12 and I understand that you wish to review all the13 records. And there are even more records coming.14 MS. RUBINO: I see.

15 THE HEARING OFFICER: The case, as I told16 Mr. Glass on the phone last night, and I know he17 wasn't representing you, and as Mr. Kelly told you18 yesterday during the course of the prehearing19 conference, the case is properly scheduled. The20 timing is properly met. Nothing has been improperly21 done, relative to the scheduling of this case. And22 that is why today's hearing has not yet and will not23 be adjourned. It is a properly timed, properly24 commenced action. And it will proceed today.25 You will be able to participate in it, to



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391 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 the extent that you wish. The Department has the3 obligation to bring the case forward. So, unless I'm4 speaking out of turn, Mr. Gamils, he'll make an5 opening statement. I assume he has a witness or two6 here for us to hear. He'll question them. You'll

7 have the opportunity to cross-examine them. And8 that's the way the case proceeds. And the next9 hearing date is February 28th. So there is plenty of

10 time, between now and then, if you chose to retain11 counsel. But, as you were told yesterday by me and by12 your former counsel, the timing in this case is not--13 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] Oh, I understand14 the timing and I have respect for the court system.15 But I just feel like I really have not been given a16 fair shot. I need to protect my career. I need to17 build a fair defense. I understand you're ready and18 you're willing to move forward. But because I had to19 hustle yesterday and get Mr. Glass, I'm just not20 ready. I need a little time to read any of the21 documents. I haven't read anything. I left Mr.22 Kelly's office with a stack of papers that was 2023 inches thick. I mean I need at least an hour or so,24 or two. At least let me see what's missing. We're25 still in the discovery process.

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401 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MR. GAMILS: Just for the record, I don't3 have the exact hearing request notice in my possession4 at this time. It's downstairs in my office. I5 believe that Ms. Rubino did request a hearing sometime6 around February 7th of 2010. So she has a--she was7 aware at that--8 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] Of '10?9 MR. GAMILS: 2011, I'm sorry.

10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yeah, I know. I just11 want to make sure you're on the right--12 MR. GAMILS: [Interposing] Correct me if I'm13 incorrect. I believe that is around the date that you14 did sign the request for hearing, February 7th.

15 MS. RUBINO: Down at the union?16 MR. GAMILS: Yes.17 MS. RUBINO: I believe so. So in the papers18 it says that if you need to cancel or postpone to be19 given three weeks. This is not even three weeks at20 this time. So three weeks from February 7th should21 have been February 14th, 21st, 28th. The case should22 have started taking place in March. I was not even23 given three weeks to--24 MR. GAMILS: [Interposing] Well, I believe--25 I'm sorry to interrupt you.

411 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: That's okay.3 MR. GAMILS: I'm sure the Hearing Officer is4 well aware of the agreement between NYSUT and the5 Department of Education where, after a request of a6 hearing is received, the Department has an obligation

7 to have a prehearing conference within ten to 15 days8 of receiving the request. And, thereafter, the9 hearing is scheduled at the next available date. That

10 timeline was adhered to. The hearing did take place,11 I believe, within the ten to 15 day required time.12 And the--13 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] The prehearing?14 MR. GAMILS: The prehearing, I'm sorry, did15 take place within that ten to 15 day required time.16 And the hearing is scheduled for today, which is the17 next open hearing date to proceed. And the agreement18 also states that hearings must be conducted in a--you19 know, expeditiously. And the Department believes that20 discovery was served, minus the personnel file which21 was served yesterday, and the student records which we22 plan to serve today. The additional discovery was23 served a week prior to the hearing date, which24 fulfills the Department's obligation under their25 agreement.

421 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, discovery is3 ongoing. It's the fact that if something were to come4 up, even tomorrow, you'd still be--5 MR. GAMILS: [Interposing] That's correct.6 But the majority--the majority of discovery was served7 well in advance of this date.8 MS. RUBINO: When, yesterday is well in9 advance?

10 MR. GAMILS: The--I personally submitted the11 evidence. I'm sorry, the discovery to Mr. Kelly on--I12 believe it was, and I can check my email, I believe it13 was last Thursday.14 MS. RUBINO: Okay. So last Thursday day,

15 today is the 17th. That would be--okay. That would16 be the 10th. Okay. So ten days after that is17 supposed to be the prehearing?18 MR. GAMILS: No.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: No.20 MR. GAMILS: Ten days after we receive your21 request for a hearing.22 MS. RUBINO: Okay. So that was the 7th that23 you received my request for a hearing?24 MR. GAMILS: I have to--can I look at25 paperwork?



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431 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 THE HEARING OFFICER: Of course. Off the3 record.4 [Off the record]5 [On the record]6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, I'm sorry. You

7 went to get something.8 MR. GAMILS: Okay. So the information that9 Department is in possession of is that on--Ms. Rubino

10 was served on February 1st, 2011, with the11 specifications. She did request a hearing on February12 3rd, 2011. And the following day, February 4th,13 Claude Hersch emailed this office and assigned the14 case to Ms. Logan, to Mr. Kelly, and to Andrea15 Chalaka, who is a fellow--one of my colleagues in--16 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing]17 Actually, if you're talking about the email I18 received, it's not Claude Hersch per se. The caption19 on the email, just so everybody's clear on it, is NYC20 3020-A.21 MR. GAMILS: Well, I was referring to this22 mail, which I will--23 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] Oh, I24 don't get that one. I'm sorry.25 MR. GAMILS: But that was through our

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441 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 office. So that was when we were aware that she was3 requesting the hearing.4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Fine.5 MR. GAMILS: And that was on February 4th.6 THE HEARING OFFICER: And then, later on7 that day, I received an email from NYSUT mail, NYC8 3020-A, which is the combination email that's between9 the Department and NYSUT when cases are assigned to

10 the Arbitrator. And that's the one I received the11 assignment. That's correct.12 MR. GAMILS: So--13 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] When did you14 receive the assignment?

15 THE HEARING OFFICER: When I received the16 assignment is irrelevant, but I did receive it on17 February 4th.18 MR. GAMILS: And that's when the Department19 was also aware that a hearing was being requested and20 who was it--who it was assigned to.21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh.22 MR. GAMILS: So, counting from the 4th, the23 prehearing conference took place within the required24 ten days.25 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh.

451 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: Is it ten calendar days?3 MR. GAMILS: It's ten calendar days.4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh. It was within5 the ten to 15 days, yesterday.6 MS. RUBINO: So that would have made it to

7 the 14th. And what's the process for starting the8 hearing after ten days?9 MR. GAMILS: A prehearing conference must be

10 held between ten and 15 days. And then it's assigned11 to the next available--12 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] Hearing13 date, which is today.14 MS. RUBINO: I object to this, especially to15 the procedure in which has brought me here. I really16 feel like I have not been given due process17 whatsoever. I know that you have specific calendar18 dates and things that follow. I really do have the19 utmost respect for the court system. I have a brother20 who's in law enforcement. I am not a disrespectful21 person. But I just feel like I have not been given22 any time to this. Also, I did not meet with Mr. Kelly23 until last week. So yesterday was the 16th, seven24 days before that was the 9th. The 9th was the first25 day I sat down with any person about this case, nobody

461 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 else except Mr. Kelly on the 9th.3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh.4 MS. RUBINO: So I definitely object to the5 way in which this is beginning already. I really feel6 violated.7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I note your objection,8 objection being a legal term of art. I note your9 objection. I understand you're--if I were to change

10 your words, your frustration and your aggravation and11 your displeasure. Objection, I don't believe is the12 proper word because there is, in fact, nothing13 factually to object to. The procedures and the timing14 have all been properly met, so I understand the things

15 that are bothering you. But, as I said, the16 procedures and the timing have all been properly met.17 Prior to dismissing your prior counsel, you18 had met. You had, well, spoken. You then had your19 prehearing conference, again, all within the20 timeframes required. And the next hearing date is21 today. And that was put on the record and made clear22 yesterday. So, again, while I note your unhappiness23 with it or your dissatisfaction with it, that is--it24 just exists.25 MS. RUBINO: Okay. I understand that the



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471 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 hearing is going to go on and I'm respectful of that.3 But I do need to be given some time to look through4 all these papers. At least--I mean and then you just5 gave me more. I couldn't even give this to my lawyer.6 I can't get this to my lawyer, so, therefore--

7 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] Unless8 you have a lawyer, you mean a respective lawyer. I9 want to be clear, for the record, you have not

10 retained counsel.11 MS. RUBINO: Well, I have to send him the12 money.13 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand that.14 MS. RUBINO: That's all I have to do.15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Just to be clear, we16 are not here at a hearing, you haven't already17 retained counsel and your counsel not being present.18 We are here at a hearing. You're hoping to retain19 counsel and intending to, but having not done so yet.20 I just want to be clear for the record. Is that21 correct?22 MS. RUBINO: Yes.23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, fine.24 MS. RUBINO: That is correct. But--25 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] Mr.

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481 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 Gamils, do you want to--3 MR. GAMILS: [Interposing] Can I speak for4 one second? Just to let Ms. Rubino know, today--the5 student records that we served today, we will not be6 calling any students today.7 MS. RUBINO: Uh-huh.8 MR. GAMILS: So we don't feel that that9 prejudices Ms. Rubino or respective counsel in any

10 way, since those were served today. The witnesses11 that we do intend to call today are Principal12 Esposito, David Sanitori [phonetic], and Investigator13 Kioti [phonetic], from SCI.14 MS. RUBINO: Okay. I object to this because

15 I'm unqualified to cross-examine them. I'm not a16 lawyer. I can't do that. I couldn't get Mr. Glass17 the retainer because I had to appear today here. If I18 wasn't here today, I would have went to the bank,19 deposited a check, and sent Mr. Glass the retainer20 Federal Express or brought it directly to Mr. Glass so21 that I did obtain his counsel. But I'm here and did22 not get a postponement. I cannot go to the bank and23 send him my money so he gives you the word that I'm24 here. I can't be in two places at once. If this was25 going to take place on Monday, I could have gotten him

491 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 the money and Friday he could have looked at the3 events. But I can't. I'm here. You told me I have4 to come here and I'm doing exactly what you're telling5 me to do.6 THE HEARING OFFICER: And I appreciate the

7 fact that you were respectful enough to appear,8 because that doesn't always happen.9 MS. RUBINO: Of course. I don't want to do

10 anything disrespectful.11 THE HEARING OFFICER: So I appreciate the12 fact that you are here.13 MR. GAMILS: I don't think it's appropriate14 for the Department to make any type of comment on Ms.15 Rubino's statements. All we're going to say is that16 we believe that she was well aware that this hearing17 was commencing by February 3rd. She had requested the18 hearing. She has spoken to counsel previously. She19 was adequately represented yesterday. The Hearing20 Officer made a representation that the hearing was21 commencing today. She still chose to fire her counsel22 and she has come today without counsel. Department is23 ready to proceed and, at that point, we will rest24 making any comments regarding her statements. I'm25 just going to ask to explain to Ms. Rubino that you--

501 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 all the decisions that are going to be made are going3 to be made by the Hearing Officer.4 MS. RUBINO: Yeah, of course.5 MR. GAMILS: And I'm just going to ask you6 to direct your comments to the Hearing Officer.7 MS. RUBINO: Okay.8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Right, I understand.9 MR. GAMILS: You just--I just feel like

10 you're putting me on the spot and I don't have the11 answers.12 MS. RUBINO: I'm sorry. I don't mean to put13 you on the spot.14 THE HEARING OFFICER: It's okay. It's all

15 right. I understand.16 MS. RUBINO: I don't know who to look at.17 I'm sorry.18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Feel free to either19 look at--20 MR. GAMILS: [Interposing] That wasn't a21 criticism.22 THE HEARING OFFICER: No.23 MS. RUBINO: No, I didn't take it as24 criticism.25 THE HEARING OFFICER: He--



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511 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] I understand.3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Conversely, he's not4 supposed to sit here and speak directly to you.5 MS. RUBINO: Okay.6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Because even if you

7 were to make an objection, or if your attorney were to8 make an objection, he wouldn't be answering your9 attorney.

10 MS. RUBINO: Okay.11 THE HEARING OFFICER: He would be answering12 to me, even if I said nothing.13 MS. RUBINO: Okay.14 THE HEARING OFFICER: So go ahead. You had15 something else you wanted to add?16 MS. RUBINO: Right. I did not fire the17 attorney because I let him know that I was going to18 seek counsel, which was the same day as this firing.19 You know, Mr. Kelly did not tell me if you can't get20 Mr. Glass then we can't help you. He just said you're21 going to retain Mr. Glass. I'm going to call Mr.22 Glass and see if he's going to get involved. Mr.23 Glass must have been in arbitration or some other24 process. So I went to Mr. Kelly's office, picked up25 these files, and then I hustled across town to 31st

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521 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 Street so that I can see if I could leave them with3 Mr. Glass' secretary.4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, I can only5 assume, Ms. Rubino, that you must have signed forms6 that released--7 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] I did.8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Because if you9 hadn't signed forms, first of all, I don't believe

10 that Mr. Kelly would have sent the email that he did,11 saying that they no longer--the office no longer12 represents you.13 MS. RUBINO: I know I did sign the papers.14 THE HEARING OFFICER: And so for you to say

15 I didn't fire him, whether you call it firing or16 release or dismissal or simply saying I don't want17 your services anymore, you chose, by signing forms18 yesterday, to release them of their obligation.19 MS. RUBINO: Yes, I understand that. But I20 didn't realize by signing them and not securing Mr.21 Glass that it would lead to a situation that I'm in22 right now. If I had known that, I would not have23 signed the papers and came to the hearing with Mr.24 Kelly.25 THE HEARING OFFICER: But, just to be clear,

531 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 yesterday when you were here and Mr. Kelly said you3 were seeking alternate counsel--4 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] Yes.5 THE HEARING OFFICER: He told you, and I6 told you--

7 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] That it would go8 on.9 THE HEARING OFFICER: --that it would go on

10 today.11 MS. RUBINO: Yes, I know that.12 THE HEARING OFFICER: We're--I just want to13 make sure we're--I mean it is on the record yesterday,14 but I want to make sure we're clear about that. You15 were not blindsided into thinking that you had an16 unlimited quantity of time.17 MS. RUBINO: No, but I thought at least18 somewhere in these documents that I received it says19 that the hearing will be scheduled three weeks or20 something that you could cancel in three weeks. But I21 did not know the hearing was today until last22 Wednesday or this week, when Mr. Kelly told me on23 Monday that the prehearing would be Wednesday and that24 the hearing would be Thursday.25 THE HEARING OFFICER: Right.

541 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: So that's on Monday I got the3 message from him about that. I--4 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] And it5 happens that way. And there are other times when you6 would have your prehearing conference and the hearing7 might not happen for months, depending on the8 scheduling of the prior cases.9 MS. RUBINO: I completely understand.

10 THE HEARING OFFICER: But the way the11 obligation is, whoever's next up at bat when the12 batter's box is open has to step in. There's no pinch13 hitters. And the batter's box isn't left empty. I14 mean, to use a sports analogy. Okay? That's just the

15 way it is. The case that preceded you settled. Okay?16 And that's just the way it is. It left today open as17 our first available hearing date. That's the date18 you're obligated to proceed.19 Now, having said that, and noting the time,20 I would tell Mr. Gamils that he can either open at21 this point, and then we can break for lunch so that22 Ms. Rubino has the opportunity to review the files23 that she has in her possession but says that she has24 not had the time to review. Or, in the alternative,25 we can simply break now and you can open and then jump



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551 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 right into your first witness this afternoon. I3 would--I would give you the opportunity, in either.4 MR. GAMILS: I would like to open now and5 call the first witness after lunch. I think that6 would be most effective use of time.

7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.8 MS. RUBINO: I object to this. I can't go9 along with--I feel--I know you don't want to hear it.

10 But I just feel like I really would like to look at11 all these papers. I would like to look at this12 because this is new stuff. And I don't know exactly13 what is missing from this verified bill of14 particulars. I don't know what's missing. How do I15 know? I didn't even get a chance to scan through the16 documents. There could be things that are going to be17 relevant to my case in here, that are not here and not18 here. I do not know.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, discovery is a20 continuing obligation.21 MS. RUBINO: Absolutely.22 THE HEARING OFFICER: And should you and/or23 your attorney, should you retain one in the future,24 have questions about documents or find that you are25 not in receipt of certain things--I understand from

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561 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 yesterday's prehearing conference Mr. Gamils asserted3 that the things that were pressing were provided. But4 if you have questions about that, certainly then you5 and/or an attorney, should you retain one, are6 permitted to reach out because discovery is7 continuing. Should something come up today, should8 somebody say yeah, I made a note of it and it's9 sitting on my desk, it would be within your rights to

10 say may I have a copy of that. And Mr. Gamils would,11 then, get it and provide it to you because discovery12 is continuing. It doesn't cease, of course.13 MR. GAMILS: The Department would like to14 mark specifications as--

15 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] I did,16 yesterday.17 MR. GAMILS: Was that done? I'm sorry.18 THE HEARING OFFICER: It's all right.19 Yesterday, we did mark three things. We marked as20 Hearing Officer 1 my letter from NYSUT, specifically21 from the state, naming me as Hearing Officer. And22 marked as Respondent 1, the combined demand for23 verified bill of particulars and discovery demands.24 And we marked as Department 1 the specifications. I25 could say--I say we, that's almost the royal we. I

571 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 marked Department 1 and all those documents. And3 Department 1 is the specifications. So those are the4 three markings I made yesterday.5 MS. RUBINO: I have a question.6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes.

7 MS. RUBINO: If discovery is ongoing, how8 could we be ready to call witness if I have not even9 had a chance to see who the witnesses are.

10 THE HEARING OFFICER: A witness list was11 provided?12 MR. GAMILS: A witness list was provided on13 Thursday, last Thursday.14 MS. RUBINO: I just got this yesterday.15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Rubino, I16 understand. It's all right. You don't have to17 apologize. You are being very respectful, I18 appreciate that. And I appreciate and understand your19 confusion. The fact that you are only just in20 possession of it as of yesterday does not mean that it21 didn't exist within the--22 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] Of course not.23 THE HEARING OFFICER: --within the--within24 the possession of your, at that time, designated25 representative. Okay? At the time, the designated

581 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 representative was NYSUT counsel's office. At the3 time that you signed the forms, at the time that the4 documents were delivered, it was all properly done. I5 understood from Mr. Gamils, and I understood, I6 thought from Mr. Kelly, although I might not have7 understood it, that a witness list was, in fact,8 presented. Which means that although you didn't9 personally look at it, it still existed.

10 MS. RUBINO: Yes, of course.11 THE HEARING OFFICER: It's like the tree12 falls in the forest concept. Yeah, it's kind of that13 tree falls in the forest concept. We may not be14 there, but I'll bet you if we went and looked at it

15 then we'll find it on the ground.16 MR. GAMILS: Just for the record, I believe17 that Mr. Kelly referenced it yesterday during the18 prehearing conference.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: I thought so as well.20 That's what I was--you know, and we don't have the21 transcript from yesterday in front of us. So I'm22 trying to do this, again, off of my recollection23 without miss--without misspeaking. So I understand24 that you personally are only just in receipt of it.25 But the folks who represented you, the conceptual



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591 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 representatives of you, were in receipt of everything3 in the timely fashion that it needed to be. And the4 fact that you personally hadn't look at it, while5 unfortunate, doesnt change the fact that every6 obligation was met.

7 MS. RUBINO: Okay. So what is the protocol8 for people who do change their lawyer right at the9 prehearing? What's protocol? Is there a certain

10 amount of time? Are you given any time to now change11 counsel or are you just stuck? Oh, well, you fired12 this person, now because you got a person at the last13 minute it's, oh, well, your fault? If I--is there a14 rule or a guideline or something to go by?15 THE HEARING OFFICER: You stated in a--in a16 somewhat emotional fashion, and while I understand17 that because we're talking about you, there's no18 fault. I want to make this very clear to you. I am19 not sitting here casting a judgment based on what you20 did yesterday.21 MS. RUBINO: Okay.22 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm not finding fault23 with you for what you did yesterday. I would venture24 a guess, although I don't want to put words in his25 mouth, that Mr. Gamils is not sitting there finding

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601 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 fault, that the Department is not finding fault, to3 use your word.4 MS. RUBINO: Okay.5 THE HEARING OFFICER: This is a process that6 has its strictures and its obligations and its7 timeline, if you will, and its orderliness. It's more8 of a mathematical calculation than a prosaic piece.9 Two plus two will equal four. Okay? And whether I

10 like it or not or whether I'm frustrated by it or I11 feel that it's unfair, two plus two will always equal12 four. Whether I think that the sky is light blue,13 dark blue, pale blue, or whatever, is more of my14 opinion. But there's no opinion in this. This is

15 factual.16 MS. RUBINO: Okay.17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Which is why, as I18 say, I understand what you're saying and I understand19 the words you're using. But I want you to understand20 I'm not being dismissive of your emotions. I am just21 sort of like--who is it--Joe Friday in Dragnet. The22 one who used to always say just the facts, ma'am, just23 the facts. It was a very old police show. And, at24 the outset, he would walk in and people would start25 telling him things and he would say just the facts,

611 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 ma'am, just the facts. That's what I--that's what3 happens here. That's what happens in the world of the4 orderliness of things, the facts. I don't know if5 that answers your question. Somehow I suspect it6 didn't.

7 MS. RUBINO: I'm going to just--I know that8 you're saying that I'm using the word object in the9 wrong way.

10 THE HEARING OFFICER: It's all right.11 MS. RUBINO: But I'm not--12 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] Feel13 free to.14 MS. RUBINO: I'm not--I'm not frustrated. I15 really am not frustrated. I just am greatly feel like16 my due process or whatever. I know you have specific17 dates and you upheld them and, like you said, you were18 the next batter to come up to the plate. But I was19 not aware of all those things. And I was not aware20 that I was going to feel uncomfortable with Mr. Kelly21 and that I would need to dismiss him go find outside22 counsel. I know there's a certain amount of days that23 you're following, but I needed--I was not feeling24 comfortable with him. I did not want to move forward25 with him. And that made me seek outside counsel.

621 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 So I just want you to be aware that I'm not3 frustrated. I am more of I feel like I'm being4 persecuted, basically, because I made a change in5 attorneys. And I feel like I'm being punished for it6 by having to be my own counsel at this meeting. I'm a7 teacher. I'm a math specialist. I'm not good at8 asking people questions and witnesses. I don't know9 who's on the agenda for today and what's going to be

10 and do I have to answer questions. I'm just confused11 about the whole entire process. I really would feel12 better if I had counsel here.13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Off the record for a14 moment.

15 [Off the record]16 [On the record]17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Back on the record.18 Are we on the record?19 COURT REPORTER: Uh-huh.20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Oh, okay. I have been21 reviewing in my mind the conversation we had over the22 past hour or so. And while acknowledging that there23 is no obligation at all, anywhere, for me to do so, I24 am going to grant Ms. Rubino's request for an25 adjournment for today.



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631 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 Please be clear, on the record, that if3 State Education does not cover my fee--obviously, I am4 not going to let the DOE cover it because the DOE is5 not asking for the adjournment--and it will be your6 responsibility to cover my fee, Ms. Rubino. Do you

7 understand that? If the State Education Department8 does not cover my fee--but I'm going to submit it to9 them because we have been working this and that's the

10 way it goes.11 Um, but I do not want to disadvantage you,12 especially when it comes to questioning witnesses,13 with not having counsel present. Acknowledging the14 fact that although you were told, yesterday, that the15 hearing would go forward today, you were not able to16 retain counsel as expeditiously as you might have17 wished. Also acknowledging the fact that you have18 some witnesses here today. And while I can't speak to19 all of them and I have no idea what they would have20 testified to, my suspicion--and you can jump in if I'm21 wrong--is that the principal's testimony would have22 been that she was the one who contacted SCI.23 MR. GAMILS: Um.24 THE HEARING OFFICER: Ish?25 MR. GAMILS: Ish.

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641 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 THE HEARING OFFICER: Ish? I don't know how3 much more there is. But it's if a certification from4 her is what you would wish to do, so that she does not5 have to be produced again and taken out of the6 building again since she was fully prepared to testify7 today, I will entertain a certification, a copy of8 which we will give to whoever ultimately represents9 Ms. Rubino. And I will review it. There may not be

10 any need for the principal to come back. I will11 determine if there's need for any further--I mean I12 understand what Respondent's counsel might say. But13 in the event that it is that simple, if you will--I'm14 not trying to minimize it. I would entertain a

15 certification, if that's what you would wish.16 MR. GAMILS: I appreciate that. Just for17 the--to respond, the principal's testimony is quite18 essential.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, that's fine.20 MR. GAMILS: The Department believes in this21 case. She will be coming back.22 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's fine.23 MR. GAMILS: And, for the record, Department24 will make--take no position on your decision. But we25 will say, and for the record, that we are prepared to

651 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 go forward today. We do have three witnesses prepared3 to testify today.4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Noted.5 MR. GAMILS: And Department is not6 requesting an adjournment.

7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Again, noted on and8 understood on all of that. That's where we began this9 morning, with the Department ready to go forward and

10 with my reminding Ms. Rubino that, as of yesterday,11 the obligation was for her to go forward. That being12 said, I will grant an adjournment today. I will--Ms.13 Rubino, and just to confirm, I want to make sure I14 have your address so that I can confirm all this in a15 letter. Are you at 1864 Ryder Street, Brooklyn?16 MS. RUBINO: Yes.17 THE HEARING OFFICER: 12234?18 MS. RUBINO: 11234.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm sorry. 112--yeah,20 you're right. 12 is Albany and Im looking at their21 letterhead. 11234? Is there an apartment number, a22 floor number, or anything else? That's sufficient?23 MS. RUBINO: Uh-huh.24 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will be confirming25 this in a letter to you. And I will, in the letter,

661 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 also be asking you that if you should retain counsel3 to please have counsel notify me and notify Mr. Gamils4 that counsel has been retained, whether it is Mr.5 Glass or anybody else you chose.6 MS. RUBINO: Okay.7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I also want to make it8 very clear to you now, our next hearing date--my next9 hearing date on this hearing is February 28th. We

10 will go forward on February 28th.11 MS. RUBINO: Okay, ma'am.12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Whether you are13 represented by counsel or not--14 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] Okay. I

15 understand that.16 THE HEARING OFFICER: --we will go forward.17 There will be witnesses. There will be opening18 statements.19 MS. RUBINO: Okay.20 THE HEARING OFFICER: I got that backwards.21 MS. RUBINO: I appreciate it.22 THE HEARING OFFICER: There will be opening23 statements and then there will be witnesses and there24 will be testimony. And that is what is going to25 happen.



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671 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: Okay. I understand that.3 THE HEARING OFFICER: There is plenty of4 time between now and then.5 MS. RUBINO: Yes.6 THE HEARING OFFICER: And so there will be

7 no third bite at the apple.8 MS. RUBINO: No, okay.9 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay? To change from

10 sports analogies to anything else. Is there anything?11 MS. RUBINO: What time on the 28th?12 THE HEARING OFFICER: 10:00.13 MS. RUBINO: Okay.14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Gamils, is there15 anything?16 MS. COMBIER: Could I just--17 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] No.18 MS. COMBIER: Okay.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: No. You have no20 standing to speak in this proceeding. If we go off21 the record and you wish to say something, Ms. Combier,22 you may. But you have no standing to speak in this23 proceeding, unless Ms. Rubino tells me your24 representing her, in which case it's fair to go25 forward because she has representation.

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681 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. COMBIER: No.3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Good.4 MS. COMBIER: Sorry.5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Anything, Mr. Gamils?6 MR. GAMILS: Nothing from the Department.7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. And, Ms.8 Rubino, I just would like you to affirmatively say you9 are clear on everything I have said today, including

10 the fact that we are going forward in the future,11 including the fact that I am sending you a letter12 confirming what's in here. I would ask, again, that13 if you retain counsel, that counsel be--14 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] Call you?

15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, can send me an16 email. I will give you my email address in the letter17 that I send. I will copy Mr. Gamils on that letter.18 Partly so that we can make sure that I, then, send all19 that information to the court reporting service20 because copies of the transcripts will then be emailed21 to whoever it is who represents you, so that that22 person is as up to speed as can be.23 MS. RUBINO: Okay.24 THE HEARING OFFICER: But I also make no25 representation that your attorney will have copies of

691 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 these transcripts prior to the 28th, because I don't3 know that we will. They get done in the course that4 they get done.5 MS. RUBINO: Oh, these transcripts? Okay.6 THE HEARING OFFICER: They get done in the

7 course that they get done. I'm sorry, Mr. Gamils.8 You had something?9 MR. GAMILS: I just wanted to say, on the

10 record, that I will provide Ms. Rubino my business11 card.12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Uh-huh.13 MR. GAMILS: That she can give to whatever14 attorney she does retain.15 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's fine.16 MR. GAMILS: If she does do so, so that that17 attorney is able to contact the Department and arrange18 for any issues or concerns that there may be.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's fine. As I20 said, in my letter, in the body of my letter, I will21 give my email address. I will reference your name. I22 will reference your office number. I will reference23 your email address as well, just so that there is no24 confusion. And I will send that letter out within the25 next few days. You will have it.

701 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: Would you like me to give you3 Mr. Glass' email? Or it doesn't matter.4 THE HEARING OFFICER: I had--I asked for it5 yesterday and I do have it. But the fact of the6 matter is Mr. Glass is nobody at this point.7 MS. RUBINO: Okay.8 THE HEARING OFFICER: He's probably a very9 nice gentleman.

10 MS. RUBINO: Okay.11 THE HEARING OFFICER: But until such time as12 you--13 MS. RUBINO: [Interposing] He has to let you14 know that--

15 THE HEARING OFFICER: [Interposing] No, he16 has to have you sign a form and then he has to let me17 know.18 MS. RUBINO: Okay.19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay? He is not20 representing you until he is representing you, until21 you sign on with him as an attorney.22 MS. RUBINO: Okay.23 THE HEARING OFFICER: And so, until such24 time, all he is is just somebody whose business card25 you're carrying around in your wallet.



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711 CHRISTINE RUBINO - 02/17/112 MS. RUBINO: Okay, okay.3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes?4 MR. GAMILS: Nothing from the Department.5 MS. RUBINO: May I please--6 MR. GAMILS: [Interposing] I will provide--I

7 have to get it from my office. I will get it to you8 before you walk out.9 THE HEARING OFFICER: Then we are off the

10 record.11 (The hearing adjourned at 12:00 p.m.)

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72C E R T I F I C A T E

I, Brandi Dean, do hereby certify that the foregoingtypewritten transcript of proceedings in the matter of NewYork City Department of Education v. Christine Rubino,File No. 17,116, was prepared using the requiredtranscription equipment and is a true and accurate recordof the proceedings.Signature: _______________________________Date: February 21, 2011

73Student Index

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Documents

Ms._Rubino-1