Monastic Inter Religious Dialogue | an Interview With Swami a

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13/01/2012 18:40Monastic Interreligious Dialogue | An Interview with Swami Harshananda

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An Interview with Swami Harshananda

Swami Harshananda: Christians often invite me to speak. Some Christian nuns live

near here. They wear the ochre sari.

Mary Margaret Funk: Do you have a problem with Christians wearing the sanyasisrobe?

Swami Harshananda: Hinduism is a configuration of many cults. Vedas are the uni-

fying authority. As long as there is no active proselytizing, we have no quarrel. We

are happy when everyone follows their own internal conversion. We accept all. We

have no barriers mentally. I give lectures. There are tears at my presentations on the

Gita. I cry when I study deeply about Christ and how he gave himself up on the

Cross. Christians and Hindus are in dialogue. Fr. Anthony from the local seminary is

doing his Ph.D dissertation on Hinduism. Hinduism has suffered from historical

problems. Many Indians, after their conversion to Christianity or Islam, follow an

anti-national split. We currently have more problems with Moslems than with

Christians. Fundamentalism allows for no dialogue.

If Christian monastics wear the ochre robe to further Indianization which is to join

our culture, observe our values and harmonize thats ok. But if Christians feelsuperior, misappropriate and accept the reverence given by the Hindu people and

cheat them and fool themselves, then thats an appearance but not authentic. We are

filled with indignation at fraudulent use of the Hindu customs. They must appreciate

the cloth and wear the ochre reverently.

In 1950 at my initiation I was taught three reasons for the ochre color: (1) orange is

the color of fire that is life. At initiation this flame represents the life of a renunciatenever to be extinguished. (2) Ochre is the color of the earth. It reminds me that all ma-

terial things will pass away. Non-attachment is my path. (3) A special color is like a

dog with a tag. This identifies to myself and others that I belong to a way of life with

vows separating me from other ways of life. I live for God and not for the world.

Twenty years ago nuns asked for some help to know the Gayatri Mantra because the

last 405 generations were praying to the God of light. We had a common understand-

ing about that universal mantra.


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The concepts of Redemption are also identical with the earliest Scriptures: Repent,

Render service to God, Repeat the Name of God, Forgiveness.

Mary Margaret Funk: Im writing a book on the eight Classic Thoughts of John Cas-

sian (food, sex, things, anger, dejection, acedia, vain glory and pride). Do you have a

similar list?

Swami Harshananda: The eight Thoughts are the Steps of Yoga. The first two are

moral and ethical. (l) speak truth, not stealingvow poverty, celibacy, not accepting

gifts (austerities); (2) Study of Scriptures / devotion to God. You must do yogas be-

fore practice of meditation. There are prerequisites to meditation. You need to study

Yoga of Patanjali, a brief survey by myself, Swami Harshananda; or the full text Patan-

jali Yoga Sutras by Swami Pradhavananda published here (Ramakrishna Math,Bangalore-560019). These two books are the sources for what you are asking, i.e. sta-

bilize the mind and reach union with God.

But to be specific: about foodAvoid those foods that are intrinsically harmful to the

inner life (meat, alcohol, onions, radishes, garlic). Follow the rules for the unclean.

Avoid food that is contaminated by the bad character of the one who prepares or

serves it. One should avoid harmful vibrations of anothers attitude. They should be

free from indolence and raging passions. You would know that they are ok by their

calmness and harmony with all living beings.

About sexBrahmacharyaFirst you want the mind to move at the level of God. The

Atman transcends the level of sex consciousness. Secondly, we start with young boys

in their studies with a strict code of life. We use the austerities of early rising, pure

body, mind and speech. We use manual labor to assist in the control of the sexual

impulses. Usually the youth of 12-25 years become restless in mind and body withoutstrict discipline. In a ritual we celebrate that we are not the body. The soul passes

through many lifetimes both male and female. Sex consciousness is like a shirtyou

put it on and take it off through spiritual practice. We like to use the image of a lamp

that is dirty or covered with soot. It can be cleansed to see Gods Presence which for-

merly we could not feel because of impurity.

About thingsCommon sense prevails in our attitude about things. Human birth isthe most valuable time to realize God. Even in heaven or hell there is no past or


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future. We must make the best of our time granted for spiritual pursuits. To improve

body, mind, speech is our task during this lifetime. Use food to keep healthy. Know

when to set boundaries, to draw the line. Maintain the body in good condition. For

the serious seekers, especially the renunciate, receive only enough gifts for your spiri-

tual well-being. Never take what is offered. Take half. Never ask. Take only what is

given. Root out greed, things visible and desires of the heart that are invisible regard-ing visible things.

About angerAnger is attachment and desire. There are two causes of anger: (1)

when deprived of something, or (2) when someone seems to have made me suffer.

Passions and prejudices are obstacles in the spiritual journey. Anger is taking me

away from the spiritual path, so I logically need to refrain from anger. Prayer helps.

Say: I cant overcome this without your help. Please take it away. Replace angerwith devotion. Think of anger as an Evil God. I bow my head, but keep at a

distance... It helps to make efforts to prepare for good quality of my practices. Listen

to sound teachings.

About dejectionWe feel dejected when we feel our limitations. The method to reduce

and overcome dejection is to reduce desires and wants that make us need-centered

or even greed-centered. Cultivate contentment. We have that marvelous teaching

about Karma. Its the unseen hand that deals the cards about human efforts. Blame

ourself and not God. Say to yourself: In a previous lifetime I made other people or

things suffer. Let me reform. As I sow, so will I reap. Let me remedy a past mistake.

Dejection is ego. You need to cultivate no achievement attitude. Be humble. Never

look at persons as lower than yourself, but those who are more evolved and provide

you with aspirations. If you are thinking about worldly matters, look at the poor. If

you are looking at spiritual matters, study the great saints. But know that many high

saints have ended up in oblivion. Humility is essential. Vivekananda named the Ra-makrishna Society after his Master, not himself. Humility attributes the good we see

in ourselves to the Glory of God and the mistakes to ourselves.

Regarding the Three RenunciationsIn the yogas you dedicate all to God. Sanyasis is to

give up all for the sake of God-Realization. A householder sees everything with an

attitude that all is from God. Monastics give up all attachment to things and only use

whatever helps us go to God. To renounce everything is a synasis. We have a ritual

fire that demonstrates that only with God is our life present. All previous past con-


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nections are disconnected.

About acediaWe feel that everyone comes to the stage of acedia. It is like climbing a

mountain you go up and then come down for a while, but ultimately you are mak-

ing progress. This down feeling is a natural sequence for climbers. You feel deject-

ed compared to the highest level; but look at the point of origin and take comfort thatyou have come a long way. In both Buddhist and Hindu cultures manual labor has

been removed from the monks so that they can perform spiritual austerities. With the

cast system there is an incentive for a lower cast person to want to do the monks la-

bor out of reverence. This has not been helpful to the monastic life over the years.

One practice I recommend for someone experiencing acedia is to keep company with

holy people: Satsang. Repeat the Name of God. The vibrations will heal you.

About vainglory and prideStudy the Bhagavad Gita ch. 2: 54-72 on the characteristics

of the Perfect. Pride is the absence of humility. The characteristics of humility are: no

boasting, never appear greater than you are. Monks can cheat, but they only cheat

themselves and also society that counts on them to be monks. We see many fraudu-

lent monks go to the USA to get quick disciples. A humble monk would never make

any comments on their stage in the spiritual life. If anything, they would try to hide

their greatness.

Regarding Pure PrayerWe are not able to realize God by self-effort. Prayer in the life

of an honest seeker will reveal God. Thou and Thine. Less of world and more of God.

The interior practice of prayer helps the self-will to diminish. Images will fall off. God

reveals Himself. Without any worry on the part of the individual, images fall off,

only light remains. To empty the mind is not for the spiritually uninvolved. Thoughts

enter uninvited. One must prepare for meditation by following the thought system in

the Scriptures. Only the guru would know if I am qualified and ready to meditate.

Regarding being a sinnerHinduism speaks to the lost. It doesnt call the individual

a sinner. Seeking is not an accurate term either, because God is not lost, nor is the

individual. Uncovering the veil, clean the lamp, wipe the mirror are better

images. We would say that the person is ignorant. If we think of being a sinner, it

might be a negative concept that makes one weak and perpetuates the attitude.

Mary Margaret Funk: Can gurus read hearts today?


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Swami Harshananda: An extraordinary SadGuru could read hearts and transmit by

a glance, a touch or a word. Ordinary gurus can size up an individual and see how

they are fit for the spiritual life. Their measure of perception is according to the puri-

ty of their life. Any pure heart and mind can get this insight. Once a swami asked a

disciple about his mantra. The disciple said: You tell me. The Swami (a friend ofmine) went away and prayed. He came back and gave him a mantra. The disciple re-

ported and showed great progress in the spiritual life. So an ordinary guru can pray

and be quite effective in reading hearts. Hinduism is not Poly-theism but has many

internal paths with various forms.

Mary Margaret Funk: What is the motivation for celibacy?

Swami Harshananda: All walks of life require celibacy. The Hindu belief is that hu-

man energy is one. The spiritual path requires all manifestations of energies to be di-

rected toward God Realization. We believe that celibacy is best imaged like a river

that sometimes needs a dam to channel water toward one direction. We channel ener-

gies sublimate lower energies to a higher life. We dont think much of whether it is

male or female energies since we are probably both and have been both several times

in a previous life.

Mary Margaret Funk: Do you have a practice of manifestation of thoughts?

Swami Harshananda: It is best to manifest thoughts to someone highly evolved. But

only manifest thoughts with someone on the same path, e.g. Bhakhti.

Mary Margaret Funk: Thank you for your time. I will study the Patanjali and those

chapters in the Bagavad Gita you suggested. It seems that the wisdom stored in theHindu tradition can be quite helpful to all of us.

Swami Harshananda: Yes, this kind of writing is necessary for the second generation

of Hindu immigrants that come to the USA. The parents cant explain their faith that

they learned by living in this culture but is not exported to their new environment.

Basic training was in the home and is now lost. Ive enjoyed this interview.

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Monastic Inter Religious Dialogue | an Interview With Swami a