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Michael Moore’s Post in the Indie Scientologist group on Facebook
October 26, 2012
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Michael Moore
From various posts I have just read on Inde Scientologist it seems to me that some people still have a gross misunderstanding of what APIS (formerly IFA) is and does.
APIS is a legally registered not for profit association in the state of Delaware, USA. It was set up for the express purposes of ensuring the survival of the philosophy and technology as original issued by LRH.
It is not a war vehicle and is not here to oppterm against David Miscavige or the Church of Scientology International. APIS has been in existence for ten years and has already run the gauntlet of concerted attacks by Miscavige and his OSA minions even at my front door and at my then job, long before many of the people currently on Inde Scientologist, or indeed the group itself, have been in the field, and has come out the other side stronger and bigger than ever before. All were effectively handled and we grew stronger and expanded as a result.
LRH Quote:“EVERY TIME YOU CLOSE TERMINALS WITH ENTHETA, YOU ARE BEING ASKED TO DUPLICATE – WHAT? ENTHETA.”“WHAT DO YOU DO WITH AN ENTHETA LINE?IGNORE IT.DON’T EVEN BOTHER TO CUT.”
We have found by experience that what LRH says in the above quote is spot on and have made great strides by following that principle.
APIS is not here for the purpose of attacking Miscavige, although we have a 10 year history of accurately pointing out his deficiencies and gross overts.
LRH and experience has taught us that the best activity we can perform is to promote the hell out of the technology of LRH. To work to expand scientology so more people can be educated into life and move up the bridge. It is not here to form an army to ‘bring down’ Miscavige. Miscavige is his own worse enemy and by the very basic principles of life, will eventually bring himself down. He needs no help from us.
With entheta the trick is not to contribute to the entheta by action or agreement, but to out perform it with theta. Creating more auditors, more supervisors, more groups that actually clear people and make OTs. That is the best attack on entheta one can make.
That is what APIS is about and has been about since its inception.
I hope this clears up any misconceptions that may abound.
Like · · Unfollow Post · Friday at 5:19pm
Seen by 95
Ronnie Bell, Scott Campbell, Tim Swanson and 3 others like
Lana Mitchell Thank you Michael. Thank you for all you are doing. You got my vote!
Friday at 5:23pm · Like · 1
Lana Mitchell PS -- I just read the LONG thread on FB where much angst and upset is displayed. I can say -- down under -- where there are only a handful of us renegades -- Michael Moore does a brilliant job. I am not going to get involved in warfare within the ranks. I respect and care for Steve Hall, Chris Black, Roy Selby, Michael Moore and many others. And for an Aussie such as myself to not get involved in some self righteousness (everyone else wrongness) is sometimes a test. But I do believe that we are on the right road -- the problem is generally that many of us don't have the same maps or directions -- and communication is often lacking, simply because the enemy is looking over our shoulder constantly. What is important is that we are all heading for the same mountain -- which I do believe we are doing, in our own individual ways. It is MORE communication, not less, that will make the journey an easier one for everyone. This is, after all, the game which everyone wins.
Friday at 6:29pm · Edited · Like · 5
Michael Moore Thanks Lana, It is great to have you up there in the green hills of NSW and getting a such a powerful group together. Australia may have been slow to start but now we will see it take off like a rocket, as LRH would say.
Friday at 6:23pm · Like · 2
Steve Hall This write up is full of the exact enemy lines the CoS tries to constantly foist off on splinter groups. Not here to form an army to "bring down" Miscavige. That's your problem you are literally working for the Church and forwarding their lines. If you trace back where you got the idea it will go back directly to an OSA operative. That IS their handling. Maybe the problem is you know nothing about ethics. This isn't about Miscavige, it's about the people he is torturing. Your priorities are bozo. Keep throwing up this stuff into our group and I will keep shooting it down. It's garbage. These are 100% your justifications for out ethics. To wit: How many auditors, supervisors and groups and OTs have you actually made in 25 years? There is no misunderstanding about your group. It IS out ethics. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DYING IN THE CHURCH. And you write them off as not worth your effort. That is disgusting. Like I said, why don't you join the human race.
"You aren't a war vehical" enemy line implying the Indie Scn is. "You aren't out to 'bring down' Miscavige = enemy line to diverting attention off the real point — helping those he is harming. "...run the gauntlet of concerted attacks by Miscavige and his OSA minions even at my front door and at my then job, long before many of the people currently on Inde Scientologist, or indeed the group itself, have been in the field" = you think you are entitled because OSA came to your front door?"come out the other side stronger and bigger than ever before..." really? How big are you that no one in the world even knows you exist? Then you put a completely non-sequitur LRH quote about entheta. Hey man, people are being KILLED. Do you understand DEAD PEOPLE? You brush that off as "entheta." You are WAY more out ethics than even I supposed. WOW."We have... made great strides by following that principle" = as measured in what, the number of dead Clears and OTs who died in the last 25 years due to Miscavige out tech and abuse? "We have a 10 year history of accurately pointing out his deficiencies and gross overts" — pointing out to who, each other? Who in the world ever even heard of you? Not the media. Not the St Petersburg Times. Not CNN. Not the BBC. Not the New York Times. Not Us Weekly. Not CBS. Not ABC. Not Nightline.You are "promoting the hell out of the technology of LRH" for the last 25 years? Last time I checked the PR of LRH and the technology were at an all time low until the Indies came along by Gallup Poll.Miscavige is not his own worst enemy. While you've been whistling past the grave yard, he has stolen $1.5 billion from parisioners, and his personal worth is over $50 million dollars... on Sea Org pay. He DOES need help from all of us to go down. This is a moronic statement.You don't know anything about handling entheta. You are spreading it into this group. And for
everyone else, "entheta" is not getting angry at someone, entheta is a mixing truth with lies. You let people die. You did nothing because that it's all just entheta? That is a huge generality.
Friday at 6:43pm · Edited · Like · 3
Michael Moore Steve, Your criticalness and ability to distort is amazing. Yes, our work on making Clears and OTs is an osa line. Geeze. Grow up Steve.
Friday at 6:45pm · Edited · Like
Steve Hall No, I never said that one time you alter-ising machine. I said the optimum solution is to do BOTH. You have to do BOTH. You can just hobby horse on one post if you like, but you are letting people drown. That is not okay.
Friday at 6:44pm · Like
Steve Hall We are not just "attacking miscavage" thanks for another enemy line. Marty for example audits EVERY DAY. I, am running out a group engram and I'm actually using the tech to do it which you apparently know NOTHING about.
Friday at 6:45pm · Like · 1
Steve Hall How many people have I gotten in session running out that group engram? Oh, I have 2.2 million hits so far. You do the math.
Friday at 6:47pm · Like
Steve Hall There's 185 people on line right now. Running out the 3rd dynamic engram.
Friday at 6:48pm · Like
Michael Moore I never once was critical of your work or website, in fact I praised it and the work you are doing. unfortunatel it seems you are unable to get past your vindictive and vicous hyper-criticalness of I and APIS.
Friday at 6:54pm · Edited · Like
Steve Hall Group Dianetics is a tech. I studied it. I am applying it. I got everyone into session and I was the first one to do so. If each person visited my website 50 times, that's still 44,000 people I have audited in 4 years. Let that sink into your brain dead head.
You have the audacity to come into our group and suggest we are just an attacking Miscavige. No, jack ass. I'm auditing more people than you've ever done in your life all added together. We are using the tech. We are auditing. AND we are exposing Miscavige.
Friday at 6:53pm · Like
Steve Hall No, you just finished writing on this thread which YOU started a bunch of false BS about Indie Scientology. I am a Class IV auditor and one of the best group auditors anyone ever heard of. And you are going to say what we are doing is just messing with entheta?
Friday at 6:56pm · Like
Betsy Reppen Michael, Moore, Steve Hall is right, here is some hard cold reality. I would have a 2 years younger old son/daughter (then my current) had I not been order to abort it (Miscaviges order), this caused me 16 yrs of hard core grief that only went away once I confessed to my only child what I had done, that she could have had a brother or sister, she forgave me. My mother-in-law, Claire Reppen died of cancer after a huge injustice commited on her by Miscavige, sending an old woman to the RPF, her crime was protesting against the 3 swing FN. The treatment of her was horrific and IMO contributed to her death - see this posting in which we supplied the KR whilst we were still under the radar. http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/14/claire-reppen-1933-%e2%80%93-2001-%e2%80%93-fly-in-peace/ The UC C/S whom we were all close also died of cancer, LRH says cancer has to do with 2D losses, she had 2 small children whom she not allowed to see or raise while on the RPF, where she shouldn't have been in the 1st place. You can see our declarations for more specifics. These are cases that hit close to home for us but that is just us, there are so many more cases it's unbelievable, so yes Miscavige has to be taken down for the sake of humanity and we need to contribute to that cause while still delivering.
Friday at 7:09pm · Edited · Like · 3
Michael Moore No I am saying that your comments ABOUT and Addressed to ME are entheta. Seems you have an a=a=a problem also and did not differantiate. Again I have never denigrated your work as you are doing about APIS and deteriorating into name calling.
Friday at 6:59pm · Like
Michael Moore Betsy, I am sorry to hear that. There is absolutely no excuse for that or any of the other crimes perpertrated by miscaviage. But I have NEVER dismissed ANY of the crimes including deaths as Steve is so quick to accuse me of. He simply has not duplicated what I said but resorts to name calling and vicous attacks instead.
But regardless of that APIS WILL continue and will continue to get auditing and training done and hold the line on standard tech. We will simply expand. Steve's attack is no different to the osa attacks we used to get some years ago. We will simply employ the same tactic we did then.
We will continue to flourish and prosper and expand.
Friday at 7:03pm · Edited · Like · 2
Steve Hall Michael, you are unwittingly forwarding David Miscavige's own pet enemy lines as your own that they fed you years ago. Read what Betsy Reppen just wrote. You just said all this was "entheta." There are hundreds more examples like what she just gave. Real people who lived and died while you were "promoting the hell out of the tech." This is are literally delusional.
Friday at 7:03pm · Like · 3
Steve Hall You call this flourishing and prospering? You don't even have your own facebook group. You are using ours! Wake up.
Friday at 7:04pm · Like
Michael Moore Rather than continue arguing and being abused. I have work to do. APIS work that is.
Friday at 7:05pm · Like
Steve Hall Learn what an enemy line is and how they work. You are the one spreading Enemy Lines into our group and then saying you are being "abused" when I call you out on it. It's a joke. But it's not funny.
Friday at 7:08pm · Like
Steve Hall Suggestion: anyone reading this amazing thread, go back and read the initial post and just count the number of Outpoints and also the number of Enemy Lines. From HCO PL 9 June 75, THE ENEMY LINE,
“When there is a concerted short or long-term campaign going on against someone or something from a single or multiple source, there has been a black PR agreement as to what to say about that someone or something.
“Some worked-out and agreed-upon entheta is concocted.
“The enemy’s PRs, media outlets and front groups are given exact statements to make.
“There is a maxim in PR or advertising that A MESSAGE MUST BE REPEATED OVER AND OVER TO IMPINGE ON GIVEN PUBLIC.” - LRH
Example, he says they are not just there to "op term" — implying that's what we're doing, just snapping terminals and arguing. He's literally just spewing enemy lines into this group.
Friday at 7:24pm · Edited · Like · 1
Steve Hall The way this works with a splinter group is OSA places someone in his group or as his BFF and that person continually repeats the carefully-worked-out enemy lines to him until he comes into agreement. Then he goes around and repeats the same lines and they spread. If Miscavige paid two PIs $35K a month for 25 years to watch Pat Broeker, if they paid Dave Lublow and another guy 20 years to infiltrate Mark Fisher, you think David Miscavige is not going to bother getting someone in his group? Evidence that he was successful is here he is mouthing OSA's exact enemy lines. Those are the lines. OSA wants nice QUIET people who won't cause any trouble.
Friday at 7:29pm · Like · 1
Scott Campbell Hi Steve and Michael. I've read all of these recent posts and comments and would like to recommend one thing. That we all read and apply HCO PL 29 Apr. 1965 "Ethics, review" in a new unit of time.
I mean, lets face it. we've all at some point felt like we've been shot from cannons into outer space when someone applied too steep of an ethics gradient to us. How about we tone down the ad hominem attacks and apply the levels of ethics actions as needed per the policy.
Does anyone disagree that this is the correct policy to apply?
Friday at 7:46pm · Like · 6
Ingrid Smith I agree Scott-I have my thoughts on the area that is being addressed: I have done countless PTS handles over decades and I can assure you most people are, as LRH stated"neither calm nor brave" on the subject of evil and suppression. I was amazed the crazy suppression people feel they have to live with.Once I get them to identify the SP or CI, now I have a whole scene of getting them to DO something about it. Hubbard made suppression as transparent as anyone could have and yet look what happened to the Church. The confront of evil is the hardest area for people.I;m not just looking at our scene as Scientologists,but what has gone on for eons-whole civilizations come and gone, because no one did anything, except for a few.Hubbard wrote a fascinating article in '69 "Cultural Destruction" ( you can google it-add L Ron hubbard) He predicted whtat will happen to the West if certain suppression isn't handled.
Friday at 9:40pm · Like · 5
Betsy Reppen Wise words all the way around, I appreciate you not only as a standard in tech auditor but on your ability to provide a very exterior point of view that puts the perspective on the big picture.
Friday at 9:58pm · Like · 3
Ingrid Smith What I found is when I handled people on their PTSness fully,they were alot happier and wanted to do the entire Bridge. I don't like the SP winning and he can win when people go into apathy. Another interesting PL Ron wrote was "Enrollment in a suppressive group" in which he states that a member of a suppressive group will be denied upper-level data until that group is completely abolished and dispersed-So he expected action. I think that there
is a gradient,but people can speed that gradient up and will win alot more in life-getting auditing or training puts muscle on one especially when it's done right. This a huge subject and I could go on and on and thank god there are people ready to help with that. And thank God, while some of us are getting our acts together there are some really balsy souls.
Friday at 9:58pm · Like · 2
Scott Campbell Thanks for the reference to that great article, Ingrid! Wow, LRH knew exactly what is being done to our culture.
Friday at 10:02pm · Like
Sinar Parman Michael Moore, thanks for the ref on dealing with entheta. However, perhaps you might consider that David Miscavige is not only entheta, which seems to be very mild description, but the biggest suppressive on this planet? Perhaps the quote does not apply to this circumstance.
What is the reference on dealing with suppressives? Ignoring an SP while he is damaging one's religion and it's founder; ones friends still under his influence, and others who are outside his influence who live in IOB, Texas and other places doesn't seem right.
Saturday at 8:36am · Like · 6
Scott Campbell Sinar Parman and Ingrid Smith, You guys are right on the money. There are orders of magnitude of overts. Entheta can be ignored. Suppression cannot. There is a difference.
Saturday at 4:17pm · Like · 2
Michael Hobson Michael Moore 'scuse me Michael, but your LRH quote is not a proper citation. Where *exactly* does it come from, please ?
Also "Close Terminals" is almost certainly an M/U for anyone without 100 years or so of Tech training. I'm certainly unsure what exactly it means. I'd also like a look a the surrounding context you lifted this quoted from.
Michael HobsonIndependent ScientologistIndie 500 #99
Saturday at 7:22pm · Edited · Like
Ian Waxler Michael Moore: Your accomplishments in the Indie field were here way before ANY FB groups for Scn and they stand on their own.
Saturday at 8:15pm · Like · 1
Steve Hall Sinar, Scott, Michael, You guys are correct. Of course the quote does not apply to our scene. It's like walking by a woman being raped and beaten in the street. Someone goes to help, but Michael Moore stops them and says, "Hang on, that's just entheta. The best thing is just to ignore it. We've made great strides doing just that." Only a totally delusional, delusional, delusional, delusional, delusional, delusional, delusional, delusional, delusional OSA tool would dare spout such straight up enemy lines in OUR midst. It strikes at the very CORE value of what Independent Scientology IS. He then says, he was an "Indie before it was cool" the hell he was. Not every person in Independent Scientology has to attack Miscavige, because people can specialize. But they better damn well support, IN FULL, the concept that beating the living snot out of this maggot is the only way to go WHILE we also reopen the Bridge for the millions. That IS what we are doing.
It's brass knuckles in one hand and an e-meter in the other. The brass knuckles are reserved for Miscavige and his supporters only. But if someone starts forwarding Miscavige propaganda, they too can have a taste of brass.
If someone doesn't like getting their nose rubbed into their own shit, then my advice is don't
walk into our home and take a shit on the living room floor.
Independent Scientology did NOT exist before. It did NOT exist in the 1980s. It is unlike any previous group by miles. That's why they failed and we are winning. WE got it right because we are putting in Ethics with ferocity while ALSO putting in Tech = straight Scientology. In fact what could be more basic than "if ethics is out, tech won't go in."
Anyone saying "it's best not to attack"... bla bla bla — is a perversion of everything WE represent. They need to decide who their friends are. And if it's not us, GET OUT. They are taking on the color of an enemy.
And if they don't like being publicly reprimanded, then they shouldn't have posted a direct attack on our most important ideals.
How many people in this group have directly suggested that all we are doing — me, Marty, Mike Rinder, Michael Laws, Karen, Sinar, Michael Hobson, Scott and Karry, every single active Indie, every single person who has posted a resignation or a declaration of independence, every single person who has posted on our many websites and blogs, every person who has lent their support, every single person who has rallied to our cause... is just "closing terminals with entheta." I got two words for that person: one starts with a F and the other starts with a Y with about nineteen exclamations after.
Saturday at 8:15pm · Like · 3
Steve Hall Ian Waxler, past accomplishments haven't a damn thing to do with this. That's just a red herring. There are plenty of people with great past accomplishments who currently work for OSA. I'm seeing zero ethics change from you.
Saturday at 8:17pm · Like
Ian Waxler Anyone who has seen the groups set up and MAINTAINED must be very impressed, (as was I going over the beautiful tribute in the FRIENDS OF LRH site..it toook my breath away...and I am so grateful you did this for those of us who dearly loved LRH.. )
Saturday at 8:18pm · Like
Ian Waxler Steve Hall.. RATHER than taking pot shots at anyone who's program you disagree with, why not put up some positive ideas? If you feel ou can "set the world on fire" with your plans... well, we are "all ears"...
Saturday at 8:23pm · Like
Betsy Reppen Ian Waxler, I'm surprised by your comment, what do you think Scientology cult website and iscientology site is all about? Do they fit into your positive ideas?
Saturday at 8:29pm · Like · 1
Steve Hall I originally said these guys were chock full of disagreements. You can't hear Ian because your ears and eyes are plugged.
Saturday at 8:34pm · Like · 1
Ian Waxler Thanks for all the eval/inval.. feels like I am back in the SO again...
Saturday at 8:46pm · Like
Steve Hall Good bye Ian. You don't belong here.
Saturday at 8:48pm · Like
Betsy Reppen Ian Waxler, my asking you a question contained no eval/inval whatsoever but asked you a question that you have not answered and I guess you don't intend too, sorry dude.
Saturday at 8:50pm · Like
Lana Mitchell OK -- I think there needs to be a little clarification on some of the angst that has been occurring on this, and on other threads.
Saturday at 9:00pm · Like
Steve Hall Lana read my post about 9 or 10 or above this one that starts out "Sinar, Scott, Michael"
Saturday at 9:03pm · Like · 1
Lana Mitchell To clarify a few things -- some years ago (we are talking about early 2000's) there was a datum at Int that the reason why the Freezone was not being shut down or attacked by Corp Scn was because they were bought off. In exchange for them just being quiet, not causing trouble, or attacking, the Church left them alone. It is THIS datum, regarding agreements between Corp Scn and the Freezone, (note we are talking about at least 10 years ago -- but more like 20 years ago), that has Steve fired up about the current enemy line that Independents in the field should not be in a war against DM. It is a Corp Scn line and is what is called an "op" as it was run into the Freezone and used to control them (to that degree). It is THIS point, that is causing the current angst -- as the same lines from 10 - 20 years ago, are surfacing again now, in a way to try and make it seem like all Indi's are doing is attacking, and not caring about delivery. Both Ethics has to go in, as well as Tech delivery. They both have to occur.
Saturday at 9:06pm · Edited · Like · 2
Lana Mitchell The 3P here, as usual, is OSA. But this one has been very covert and those who have been forwarding the lines may very well have had absolutely no idea about the earlier beginnings. I don't know. Hope this blows some charge for people. Bottom line is -- there is a grossly corrupt Church which has to have ethics put in, and concurrently there is delivery (STANDARD - NOT SQUIRREL) that has to occur.
Saturday at 9:08pm · Like
Betsy Reppen "there was a datum at Int that the reason why the Freezone was not being shut down or attacked by Corp Scn was because they were bought off." So how about some of you freezoner's speak up here and now denying that you weren't bought off and this is an enemy line?
Saturday at 9:16pm · Like
Steve Hall Lana is correct. I quoted the LRH Policy on how it works earlier in this thread or in another. OSA cooks up an "enemy line." They get people close to the target to repeat the line to them over and over until the target accepts the line. The line is designed to persuade the target to be SILENT on the subject of Church crimes.
Aaron Mason, from OSA Int briefed me on the Freezone in 2001. He was chuckling when he told me about how duped (under control) the Freezone was because they had accepted the tacit agreement, "Shut up and we'll allow you to practice Scientology quietly." However, what the Freezone didn't know was OSA had people encouaging them to squirrel on the theory that the more squirreling, the more losses and they'd eventually collapse.
Saturday at 9:17pm · Like · 1
David LaCroix Her's some clarification Lana. Steve Hall has delivered an SRA to Michael Moore and Ian Waxler. They obviously don't have a clue what "Command Intention" is from the new ersatz Int.(indie) Management.
Saturday at 9:18pm · Like
Michael Moore I was here fighting OSA and the church long before you turned up Steve with your vitriol and invalidationof what I have or have not done and your attempt to unmock APIS.
Regardless of how much you attack the wrong target (us) we will continue to expand and continue to do our job of forwarding the purposes and goals of APIS.
Saturday at 9:25pm · Edited · Like
Lana Mitchell There are a series of OSA Network Orders, which lay out the basic intelligence procedures that OSA is to follow. Those OSA Network orders detail how to undermine and how to control outside groups. I have studied all of these references and can tell you that without question, OSA has had the Freezone in their pocket and bought off for some 10 - 20 years. Now I don't know who the persons were that were originally approached and did the deal -- and I don't know if those persons are still today, in executive positions in the Freezone -- and possibly there are no persons existing from that time period. What IS interesting however, is that the same lines from OSA, are being forwarded -- probably unknowingly -- across the Indi field. This is what is called a dup. Someone, is forwarding the enemy lines of OSA, without even realising they are.
Saturday at 9:24pm · Like · 3
Steve Hall David, I'm not management. I'm just someone who knows what an enemy line is and who is not afraid to expose them for what they are.
Saturday at 9:24pm · Like · 3
Haydn James Lana Mitchell, you are right. It is a matter of fact that back in the 80s the C of S extensively infiltrated the Freezone and harassed their members because they saw them as a threat. Then after David Mayo took the money and quit there was far more than just a tacit agreement made. Some legally binding agreements were made between the C of S and certain members of the Freezone that they were free to practice Scientology but there were of course conditions. And of course, a culture of "you leave us alone we'll leave you alone" has remained firmly in place for the last twenty odd years. With the rise of the Indie movement things have changed and of course OSA agents are buzzing around and I'm sure renewing the old lines.
Saturday at 9:25pm · Like · 4
Betsy Reppen Ingrid Smith's posting of this reference has even more significance in light of this posting Lana Mitchell, "Hubbard wrote a fascinating article in '69 "Cultural Destruction" ( you can google it-add L Ron hubbard) He predicted what will happen to the West if certain suppression isn't handled". OSA seems to be very hatted in cultural destruction of us all. This feed is so enlightening to those unknowing of how covert OSA is.
Saturday at 9:27pm · Like · 2
Michael Moore No david, it was not a SRA. It was a blatent out and out attack on APIS and myself including practically accusing us of murder. A real about face from the Steve Hall I used to know. I have never denigrated Steve or done anything other than acknowledge him and his abilities.
Saturday at 9:27pm · Like
Michael Moore The visious attack osa made on us when we first started the association is something we have not exposed very much off as it does no good to publicly bandy that stuff
around. Suffice to say we have previously had to confront far worse than Steve Hall.
I see no fruitful products in continuing to engage in this tomfoolery. Wed have more important things to do than fight. You Steve can have the last word which I am sure you will. I have some productive work to do.
Over to you Steve
Saturday at 9:32pm · Like
Steve Hall Either a person will get their ethics in or they will not. If they won't, it is often because the out ethics runs too deep for them to confront. The Freezone has been suckling on the OSA teat for 25 years. You are a product of that think. The difference between Independent Scientology and all the rest is we refused to make any deals with OSA. OSA bought Mayo's silence with money. They bought the Freezone's silence by letting them continue to practice. The Freezone is a degraded group because they sold out.
Saturday at 9:46pm · Like · 2
Scott Campbell I'd like to know one thing before this continues Michael Moore, In what way has OSA attacked you?
Saturday at 9:57pm · Like · 1
Michael Moore It was primarily in the early days of APIS/IFA. Then it was very overt including legal as well as 'unofficial' attacks. I am not goign to go into details on FB. Later, as they went down tone through not being successful, it become more covert and I believe most osa attacks on ex church people and scientologists in the field these days are largely very covert.
Saturday at 10:40pm · Like
Michael Hobson Michael Moore: legal *threats* or actual lawsuit(s)?
Lawsuits are public record. This is the first I've ever heard of any Co$/OSA lawsuits against IFA. Yes, we need specifics. What Co$ entity versus IFA in which court and when, with case numbers so we can look up the case records.
Please, Michael. Post the specifics. It's a simple matter of PR Series 18 How to Handle A Black PR campaign. If you think you are on the receiving end of one, then your documents versus someone else's lies is the way to go.
Michael HobsonIndependent ScientologistIndie 500 #99
Saturday at 10:58pm · Edited · Like
Michael Moore This was some 8-9 years ago and in Australia, NOT the US. And it was HANDLED Legally. As I said I am not going to go into specifics here.
Saturday at 11:22pm · Like
Steve Hall Is Friends of LRH your website? That's a good website.
Saturday at 11:23pm · Like
Michael Moore No not mine, I know the owners of the site and have assisted them in the past. but they want to keep their identity confidential as have family in the church. Yes, I agree, it is an excellent site and clearly outlines the differences between the church perversion of the tech
and the real tech. All our sites can be seen on the links on the left of the main website towasrds the bottom.
Saturday at 11:26pm · Like
Karry Campbell Thanks Michael Moore. I'll answer your email tomorrow. Have to go to bed now.
Yesterday at 12:51am · Like
Richard Lloyd-Roberts This is a very charged conversation. As the Indie group grows we are of course going to butt heads. Looking in from the outside I see the points than Michael and Steve make. I like solutions. We discuss, we learn, we grow. We are forming a more cohesive group and we are experiencing growing pains. What would LRH want. I think that hats are starting to be worn. You are taking them on due to natural selection. I see a lot of knee jerk reactions that just create low ARC. Been subject to it myself. But thats growth. Michael thanks for preserving the tech and steve thanks for being the EO.
Yesterday at 9:00am · Edited · Like · 1
Scott Campbell Richard Lloyd-Roberts, The Policy that applies here is HCO PL 6 Dec. 1970 "THIRD DYNAMIC DE-ABBERATION" In which LRH states, "As the universe is full of beings and one lives with them whether he likes it or not, it would be to anyone'sinterest to be able to have functioning groups.The only way a group jams up and (a) becomes difficult to live in and (b) impossible to fully separate fromis by random and counter purposes.If one thinks he can go off and be alone anywhere in this universe he is dreaming.The first impulse of a hostile being is "to leave" a decent group. What a weird one.The only reason he gets in jams is his inability to tolerate or handle others.There's no road out for such a being except through.Thus all we can do to survive even on the first dynamic is to know how to handle and be part of
the third orfourth dynamic and clean it up."
Yesterday at 9:39am · Like · 3
Betsy Reppen Richard Lloyd-Roberts, feel like I'm talking to royalty with that name, lol, but yes at times it was really hard to hang in there with the shots being fired but in the end my ARC has increased 10 fold for so many involved that I otherwise would not have known, such is the nature of freedom of speech, it hurts at times to hear it but in the end I learned a lot. If any OSA bots lurking eat your heart out.
Yesterday at 10:14am · Like · 3
Richard Lloyd-Roberts There is nothing that will drive the church more crazy than us succeeding with the true Lrh tech. In light of them denying the bridge to millions due to their out tech and sending the public to the poor house for of policy crap like empty buildings. Both Steve an Michael have their rightful place in this part of history. Steve takes down the OSA bots and Michael makes sure that the tech is there. We should be thankful for both. Imagine if Michael had not kept original LRH. DM could have wiped out that forever. If Steve Marty et al had not fought OSA and DM we would all still be hiding in our closets. Thanks to both.
Yesterday at 1:35pm via mobile · Like · 2
Richard Lloyd-Roberts Oh btw micheal I think you should tell on how OSA came after you. The productive part is us learning how they operate.
Yesterday at 1:56pm via mobile · Like · 2
Karry Campbell Richard Lloyd-Roberts, Very astute observations. I second that. We can all learn from what Michael Moore had to go through.
Yesterday at 2:58pm · Like · 1
