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Panel DiscussionEcho 360 Transcript

Disclaimer: This recording was difficult to transcribe because it had areas of poor sound quality and also because a majority of the audience was oftentimes coughing over what the speaker was saying. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Female Speaker: And I also wanted to give thanks to the team for all that you do and to Melissa who’s going to be streaming this for us and trying to record this for us as well.

2nd Female Speaker: Okay, team. Again I work with PRLT, Savannah and the rest of the crew. Before I introduce the panelists, or actually before I introduce myself, I just wanted to sit down and introduce the MOOC. If you don’t know what a MOOC is, it’s a Massive Open Online Course that some universities just have out there for anyone to take. They’re free. Most of them—some of them—give credit and some of them don’t. But they are interesting online concepts. So whether you like the idea of Massive Online Concepts or not, it’s definitely something that many colleges are developing so you should educate yourself about what they are.

Our panelists are sitting in front of you and we have our moderator. I’m going to introduce—I’m going to have our moderator introduce himself first. Our moderator is Mr. Corey White (someone cheers and there is laughter) from Esquire from the department of sociology and anthropology. Corey, would you like to introduce yourself?

Corey White: Sure. I’m new to Clemson. We have some students here; thank y’all for coming. After they introduce themselves, which is the most important thing because they are the experts; they’re going to be telling you about their experiences they have done online and what may be done here in Clemson. Because it’s going to be the professors in conjunction with Sally and his department of online learning… what we do at Clemson, making sure we do the best practices that haven’t even been developed yet. I am new here at Clemson; I have taught two semest—or two courses this last spring. As an adjunct lecturer, for the past four years, I have driven back and forth from Washington, 540 miles each week, because I love teaching. I did use the online environment quite a bit, but I did teach full-face classes on Tuesday’s and Thursdays. I have taught fifty classes—almost fifty classes online in the last seven years—almost a thousand students online. I should be probably sick of the E-Learning environment at this point, but I’m not and I’ll tell you later why as you hear from these guys what their experiences are. Okay?

Thank you, Corey. So our panelists have a diverse range of educational experiment—or experience with the online classroom, which is good because experience works differently than anything (hard to understand) from everybody. Denise Anderson is from PRTM. Denise, would you like to introduce yourself?

Denise Anderson: Yes, I am a PRTM faculty member. This is my tenth year and I have been teaching online for I guess five. I don’t teach within a department online; however, I teach the Youth Development Leadership Online Master’s Degree that Bob is in charge of. The first time I taught a class, I either thought that I would hate it or be okay enough with it to continue doing it. And I didn’t hate it, so I’m still doing it (Laughter.) And I think I have gotten better at it. I would probably put myself on the end of the continuum of not being that experienced with online teaching. But we have also started a new online Master’s degree in PRTM as well that I coordinate, that I’m not teaching one of the courses in, but I’m the one responsible for that degree is, the graduate coordinator for our entire department as well. So


I’ve taught an evaluation class online at the graduate level and I’ve just started a programming class online as well, both for (indecipherable.)

2nd female speaker: Bob Barcelona?

Bob Barcelona: Hi. First off, I’ve been in this building, this is a great building. It’s awesome (Laughter.) Like Denise, I also teach a Youth Development Leadership Program. YDL Program is a fully-online master’s degree program. It’s geared primarily to full-time or part-time youth work professions: people that are working after-school programs; or YMCA’s, they could be coaches. But they are working with SKID outside the traditional public education system. So it’s important to really design around the needs of professional bill-earners. We’re also in the process of developing a fully-online degree completion program at the undergraduate level in youth development services for those folks that are working with youth, again, in nontraditional settings that maybe don’t have a bachelor’s degree. We see that there’s a real need there. So we’re actually moving toward full proposal. It’s already gone through the board of trustees and it’s gotten the blessing there, with one more level at CAG. So that’s my experience with online learning. I’ve been in Clemson for five years, taught at the University of New Hampshire for seven years before that. And usually a mix, mostly online classes but sometimes … (couldn’t decipher.)

2nd female speaker: Angela Colistra will be our next panelist. And she comes from such a long department I’ll have to read it (Laughter.) It’s Leadership, Counselor Education, Human and Organizational Development.

Angela Colistra: That’s me (laughing) and I am happy to be here. I am an adjunct professor in the Department of Counseling. And I have been teaching online for the major online university since 2010. I definitely say that I’m a new B.S.’s I’m still learning every day about online teaching. With the major online university, I have taught a number—I have taught the same course—I’ve taught it about fifty times in these past three years (laughter.) So I’ve gotten very comfortable with that platform. I’m taking my first class online in the spring, and I’m going to do it here at Clemson, and I’m going to do it as a hybrid. And so I have been involved with CCIT you know, for the past eight or nine weeks in training here in support, which has been an awesome experience. And I have felt very prepared to, kind of go into the spring semester and help my students be successful in that platform.

So and my training, I am a … professional counselor. So I am new to academia as well and I just can claim my PhD as of last year. So I’m very excited to be here.

2nd female speaker: Thank you. Our next candidate is Susan Clay.

Susan Clay: I’m more of a newbie than Angela. I’ve used a lot of tools in distance education and I’ve… for study abroad. And I did get to experience probably the … within the 8-week Distance Ed. workshop last year, which was really cool, probably more so from giving it perspective, perhaps… than what it was…instructor… it was really interesting to see. Oh, okay. Everything’s… campus. That was really interesting. So I’m just eager to keep… (Could not decipher.)

2nd female speaker: Our last but not least talent is Kyle Anderson (laughter) from our Accountancy Department.


Kyle Anderson: Alright, one of the really neat things: In 1984 I graduated from the first graduating class in the Masters of Accountancy. And come full circle, I am now a faculty member there, teaching in the School of Accountancy and having a great time. I entered public accounting when everything was on paper: only the secretary had a computer. So I got very involved with technology early on and as Barbara and I discussed, we both jumped ship and went out into the world of accounting and said, you know, “Computers are cheap. Software’s cheap. We’re going to help you on our major systems.” So back in ’90, all my friends had thought I’d lost my mind with this new crazy idea. So professional background: still involved in the profession. I travel to speak to CPA’s right now in ten states on embracing new technology in their business—paperless, remote access, Skype, all that nonsense.

So that’s my professional life, which is, as I said, continues on. But I entered into full-time teaching in 1992 at (?) College. And I did the traditional chalk and have the students come up and pretend (?). And in 1997, I had the opportunity to bring my classes into the computer lab. So I taught accounting in computer labs since 1997 and it’s a … event. I’ve raised all types of technology and I’ve tried to encourage that student to get involved and interact within the course itself. … Linda likes to talk about the sage on the stage disappearing. I’d like to be disappearing as the sage on the stage: we don’t have to be there for them to get the answers anymore. It’s a whole new paradigm of education. It’s really exciting. I’ve used … a lot of technology to pull for online classes.

Speaker: Thank you. Thank you, panel. Corey, you have our questions up, and I will turn this over to you.

Corey White: Before we get started, I’d like to lay a foundation before we get started. I’m not going to ask you to move around or do anything uncomfortable, but I do want you to have a certain mindset as you listen to the panelists. I’m going to be asking some different questions for all of them at first, first an introductory question, and as I ask different questions, it’ll be for which of them wants to that one. But before you listen to any of the questions and the answers, I want you to ask yourself and think for a minute: what would a chair look like if our knees bent the other way? Think for a second. You know what a chair looks like: it comes in all shapes and sizes. But this was built knowing the human body. What would a chair look like if our knees bent the other way?

Teaching is what we do. It’s substitute. These are the experts in their fields. But now we’ve become trailblazers of sorts. And that’s what they are. They’re being asked to lead in a trail that doesn’t exist. And there are two responsibilities when they do that. One is, “Hmmm. What should it look like? If learning is going to be different than it’s always been before, what should it look like? And you really don’t have the answers but you kind of know, based on what learning is, based on what the human body is, what the chair should look like. But it’s not a finite science. It’s something they’re walking through, learning as they go, knowing what works from the past, and trying to apply it in this online environment so that it makes sense, it’s feasible, it’s accessible, and it’s productive. Because if it’s not those things, it’s going to fail… the responsibilities of a trailblazer. Because that’s what we have been, like it or not, forced into. We’re lost; we’re in the wilderness; everybody wants to know which way to go. We’ve been pushed out by the crowd to go teach online. Some of us said, “Sure, I think I know which way to go.” But some of us have not been pushed in that direction.

There’s two responsibilities of a trailblazer. One is to go in a safe, responsible, productive manner so that everybody stays on board, so that everybody benefits, and the group is taken care of. But two, and I think sometimes the most important: you can tell that I’ve started hiking this summer (probably referring to the


slides, but we can’t see them.) and spending a lot of time on hiking trails throughout the upstate. The second part, when you’re walking along the trail, you can see what’s called blazes. That’s why I’m calling them trailblazers. It’s not just the person who goes down this road, going through the unknown. But they’re blazing the trail and marking it so that those who walk behind him have some kind of framework to follow. Make changes along the way, surely. But at least have some direction or path to go on. And thank goodness for those trailblazers who mark the trail for us so that when we go forward in the next generation of teachers—you guys—you’ll have some kind of framework to go on.

Think that through as you listen to the answers. What would a chair look like if the knees bent the other way? And what should online learning look like since we’ve never seen it done before over the last couple decades?

First question, I really want everybody… I’ve talked to Jan and Suzanne about it: What are some of the challenges in online teaching? That are just some challenged that you’ve experienced, everybody, what are some challenges that you’ve experienced in online teaching?

(Someone clears his throat.) Male Speaker: Are you calling on me? (Laughter)

Corey White: Sure, sure! You don’t have to raise your hand; I’m not teaching. You don’t have to raise your hand. We’re not in that environment (Laughter.)

Male Speaker: I think one of the things for me is I come to Clemson after having taught for seven years in a traditional, sort of campus-based program. And my teaching approach is kind of what we might like to all think of as best practices of teaching. So it’s not sitting on the stage, it’s really a lot of student engagement, active learning, and hands-on learning… some mixture of a little bit of lecture but a lot of small group and student engagement kinds of activities. So one of the big challenges I had I think when I came to Clemson was like, okay, take that approach and put it into an online learning environment where real students come from all over the world. Brazil. Ireland. Canada. All over the country. And we’re all in the same online environment, but we’re spread out geographically. So how do you replicate some of those active learning principals that we do in the classroom, online? So that was one of the initial challenges that I had to get through and I know we’re talking more a little bit later about solutions. But one of the things that I found about online learning is that in many ways it can be more engaging and more active in terms of learning than perhaps the traditional classroom.

Corey White: Anyone else? Some challenges, maybe not the biggest, but what are some challenges that you face in online learning? (Directed toward a particular person.)

Denise Anderson: I think that personal connection can be difficult. Because you know, you don’t really see them, you know, you can’t see them and put your hand on their shoulder, whatever the case happens to be. In PRTM, I’m used to that environment where I work very closely with the students. You know, you don’t get to see their interaction. And that was my biggest concern going in anyway. And it remains a challenge to some extent but I am finding that probably because you have so much more interaction with them, in that they don’t have as much trouble with e-mailing or calling, that I don’t miss it as much as what I would have thought that I would. That I am able to develop similar relationships with them, even though they never show up in my office. But you know, it is something that can be frustrating at times.

Corey White: Anyone else?


Kyle Anderson: Well I was told that I was going to teach an online class (Laughter.) A computer lady that had done this all these years said, “It’ll be easy for you.” And so I started to check with my friends and they said, “It’s a nightmare. You’re invaded with e-mails. You’re going to answer the same questions over and over.” That was my biggest fear, that I’m just going to be stuck in oblivion of paperwork. And one of my favorite authors said, “Well I just record and post all my lectures through screen capture and it really helps.” So I thought, this is great. So I started recording all of my traditional classes and for my first online class, I had a complete catalog of a full semester of courses. So I thought, “Okay, that is what we’re going to do with these redundant questions.” And it did, it really did. But then it came down to, “How am I really going to connect with these guys?” And I always say, “Don’t try something online until you try it in your live class, so then you can see how they really react.” And so I started using Skype. I said, “If you have a question, you’ve got to be a part of Skype in this course.” I made it a requirement. So they’d call me up on Skype and we’d share screens and all of a sudden, I found that connection was there. It was great! I had this true connection.

The other thing was a real challenge to connect. I said, “Call me.” If I don’t want to talk to you, I won’t. But you can leave a message and I’ll call you back. So we had Skype, cell phone access, and unconditional(?) hours, and last but not least, I started completing little podcasts. One guy said that, well, you could put together a little two-page summary. No, I can put together a well-spoken five minute summary so that you can hear me through the material. So those were my biggest challenges and really that’s what’s made online fine.

Female Speaker: Um, I would agree with all the challenges that Denise, Bob, and Kyle have brought up. But another thing to bring up is keeping up with technology ( laughter.) It is an ever-changing platform, and just when you’ve caught up, the next-best thing about it is available to learn how to adapt and use. And learning how I go about doing that, not only am I going to teach about it in the class that I teach, but all of a sudden I have to trouble-shoot it before I’ve seen it and I become IT ( laughter,) which is something that I am not meant to do. So I have learned to do one thing at a time, not to bombard myself or my students, with this new technology… even though you want to get your hands dirty! This is great! Slow down; take things one at a time.

Male Speaker: And you get excited about technology; there’s so many things out there! How do I use all these new things?

Female Speaker: One of my biggest challenges is that I’m kind of a perfectionist. And so it’s hard to kind of make myself get flexible about setting all the stuff up online or setting all the stuff up on the blog and making everything perfect and all of a sudden they can’t understand what I write. Or oh, it doesn’t work that way. Okay, gotta change it at the last minute or make changes during the course. I had to become a lot more flexible and say, “It’s okay.” The most important thing is function and that it works for the students, not that it looks all pretty and perfect (laughter.) So that was one big thing, learning to be flexible and not trying to take that too hard. And also separating any tech problems and saying, “Okay, turn it in next week.” Or saying, “Okay, everyone bring their USB and let’s work at my apartment.”

Corey White: Another thing. We’ve all been talking about our challenges, have you, while been thinking about some of your challenges, anticipated any of the challenges that your students may be facing?


Kyle Anderson: In general, students come from high school, and they typically take tests on paper and they have paper books. They’re not prepared for online classes. And even on my Facebook page, I have five monitors. Just like when I research books and I have four or five open, and now I have five computer screens open. So for them one of the biggest challenges is to overcome this technology issue. And students sometimes will complain about it while others will like it, I devote part of each class or some aspect of this class to, “How do you make this course work for you?” And I say, “If you don’t have two monitors, you’re just slapping yourself around.” Make use of this stuff. So I actually blended it in to the class focus.

Bob Barcelona: You’ll have students that range from right out of undergraduate at twenty-five all the way up to fifty or sixty and everything in between. So you’ll have students in whole different ranges of technology. And you’ll have to remember that. I got really into virtual worlds several years ago, and I tried to redesign our research design around the virtual world. And it was great for some of our students, but I had some students who couldn’t get past the avatar thing. This is a video representation of me and it’s a little goofy and I’m uncomfortable with it. It sort of distracted them. I saw the potential for it, but don’t think they were ready for it, so I put away the technology that they weren’t ready for.

Female Speaker: Can I ask a question?

Kyle Anderson: Yea, sure, go ahead.

Female Speaker: Do most of you guys feel pretty comfortable if students come to you with tech-related questions? Are there any that you’re like, “I have no idea. I’ll have to find someone who does.” Because if you didn’t know, you can go to [email protected], because we have these awesome CCIT people (laughter, she works for CCIT.) And they can probably answer your question right away instead of leading you on and saying, “I might be able to help you.” Or do you feel, “You know what? That’s something I really need to learn, so let’s learn this together.”

Female Speaker: I think if you’re teaching the first class of a degree, some of that information is really important. By the time I get some of those students, they’ve worked through most of those bugs. I don’t feel prepared to help them with that unless it’s their microphone won’t work or their camera won’t work. Well maybe someone would tell me, no, you should know how to do that. But there’s experts for that. I have plenty of other things to do with my time than think about all that. Because I have very few students with problems in technology, unless it’s a storm that knocked out their connection. Other than that, at his point, these guys are so prepared at orientation that I don’t run into any problems, thank goodness.

Hope Carroll: Okay.

Corey White: Any questions here before we move on?

Hope Carroll (woman who referenced CCIT): Hope Carroll, I work for CCIT, by the way, also IT! (laughter)

Corey White: Eyes among us, eyes among us. (laughter)

Female Speaker: A lot of stuff on Blackboard, a lot of stuff on Google. So for all the extra stuff like Blogster, Voicethread, whatever extra stuff that we’re using, I try to trouble-shoot how I can. It helped me

mailto:[email protected]


learn even better. It helped me learn even better, “Oh, okay. What’s the reason for this problem?” Otherwise, I call CCIT for things like Blackboard. (She’s difficult to hear, talks quickly and quietly.) So Blackboard, blog, that sort of thing.

Hope Carroll: So what if you get a student that says, “Blogster, I’ve never heard of that.” Do you say, “Okay, I think this is what’s going to fit. This is a really good tool for what I’m going to teach them. Do you give them a mini-training lesson?”

Female Speaker: There is a little tutorial on Blackboard that they can play with and we also have them do a sample assignment. So that helps them, gives a couple weeks for them, really just setting up a dead webpage. Getting as comfortable and doing as much as they want to do. They can go as crazy with it if they want and we’ll do some trouble-shooting—actually Kelly helped me with trouble-shooting. And yea, they keep on playing with it.

Female Speaker 2: Some of these minors, you say… give them a few weeks to figure it out. Our classes are six weeks long. We don’t have two weeks for them to figure stuff out (laughing.) so we have to be sprinting the whole way.

Kyle Anderson: What I do is computer issue, CCIT, a software program, if I can’t answer it. What I do is create a short video and I say, “Here’s how you use it,” and you can watch it on a cell phone. Because my fear is to receive six hundred videos about this one question.

Female Speaker: Yea. And a lot of times it’s the same thing. You find that there is a common thread for the same problem and once you figure it out, you can get ahead of it.

Kyle Anderson: You’re creating a new video when you figure out that problem.

Corey White: My students would tell you that I’m a stickler for instructions. If you don’t follow instructions, it’s going to cost you. In that vein, what advice would you give students or instructors if you’re first teaching or taking a new online class?

Female Speaker 2: I think from a faculty-perspective, you have got to be organized. I have followed faculty who are not and it drives the students crazy. One, they’re adult learners and they expect it. And they’re paying a lot of money for you to be organized because in six weeks, if you’re not organized, you’re simply not going to get much done. I find it makes my life a lot easier and it makes the students’ life a lot easier. Regardless of what technology that you use, organization has to be there, or you’re not going to get much accomplished. And from a student perspective being organized is important as well, but it’s probably more important for me. I had an online class over the summer I had 28 students and if I hadn’t been organized, I’d probably still be doing links with them or something and we wouldn’t have got through it all.

Corey White: Yea, especially in an accelerated program, a six-week program. You’re teaching across a fifteen- or sixteen-week semester, and maybe it’s possible to prep a course from week to week. But, when you’re talking an intense six-week wide, with professional master’s students, especially our students that are working professionals and have families. You have to have that ready to go. You have to have everything up there for them. One of the things for students is, don’t underestimate the time it takes. Not


only the time it takes to do the assignments that we give you, but also the time to get speed on the technology we give you. It’s not like a paper where you can kind of wait until the last minute and whip it out on Microsoft Word. There is a learning curve on any of the technology that we give you to use. To me, that’s part of the learning process, being able to problem-solve. I know for our students, I also like to show them how they can use the technology in their own professional lives. So, Wikis, collaboration, team projects, whatever. They’re doing it in my class, but I want to see them use it in their lives outside.

Female Speaker: I think my advice for students would be to set that quiet time aside at home. Don’t expect that if you’re sitting in an online classroom, you can do it in a loud house, you can do it. You need a quiet, non-interrupted space. Just because you’re home doesn’t mean you’re available; you’re in online class. Set that boundary in the beginning for your roommates or your family or whatever. Because you really do need to be able to multitask with the technology and with the assignment, and to be able to juggle those two venues while you’re learning. It’s like what Bob said, there’s a learning curve on both ends of the spectrum. And I would also tell students to be able to connect with other students in the classroom. Reach out to them in the chat rooms and get phone numbers and e-mails so that when you go out and do your work, you often might run into a problem and no one will be available to you. It’s not like in a normal class where you can just ask someone in the room. You have to invest a lot of time, like faculty, if you’ve even taught the class before, you still have to put a lot of work into it as you’re bringing in that new technology. I guess prepare for that investment of time as you’re bringing in new technology.

Kyle Anderson: My favorite comment I got from a student I guess facing the faculty knowing that they’d have to repeat this online class because they weren’t going to make it through… but their comment was, “I wouldn’t have taken this class if I had realized that there was so much computer stuff and deadlines.” (Laughter.) I memorized it, I was like, “I wouldn’t have taken this class if I had realized that there was so much computer stuff and deadlines.” (More laughter.)

I set deadlines extremely early in the class. I’ll open up lessons, you’re looking up six lessons, mine were eight a lot. I’ll open them up for two weeks but not more than that. And I say, if you miss a deadline, it’s a zero. That goes from day one because by then they’re already so far behind. In my first video I explained, “You’ve got to jump on board right now. You can’t do this at the last minute.” We’ve all gotten e-mails fifteen minutes before the deadline, “I’m having computer problems.”

Corey White: I had a deadline at 11:54. It’s directly proportionate to … (?) I would give different advice at different stages, depending on the class and how it’s going. The first advice I would give every student whether online or in the class is, “Read the textbook.” If you’re using the textbook in a class, read the textbook. I can’t tell you how many students have called or e-mailed or instant messaged me, “This homework assignment blah-blah-blah-blah-blah.” And I’m like, “Page 178. Second column, half-way down the line.” And they’re like, “How did you know?” And I said, “I read the textbook.” And they’re like, “Oh! It’s in the book!”

Female Speaker: And the syllabus!

Corey White: Yes! Read it! I know a professor that responds, “RTS.” Read the syllabus. I’m not answering the stuff anymore.


…(Coughs) give in to student-to-student conduct because there is so much communication that needs to happen for good learning. I had a student call me on the phone because it was a dire emergency. And we’re talking basic computer skills. And she couldn’t find the “x” in the module buttons. And I kept saying, it’s right here. And she’s kept saying, “I can’t find it; I can’t see it.” And I kept saying, “Well, scroll down.” And her question, “What is scroll?” That was an “ah-ha!” moment for me. In 2011, everyone knows what “scroll down” means. And if you’ve never had to think of what scroll down means, try that on for size. What does scroll down mean? And I was saying, do you see this line over here? “Well, where?” Those little things when you’re giving instructions about different things your course, because it makes so much sense to you; it’s second-nature. It’s new to them. We don’t know what technological skills or discipline skills they come with. They don’t have that course in high school. But I’ll still never forget that question, “What does ‘scroll down’ mean?”

How do you facilitate a learning aid—communication and support between your students? What do you use, how do you do that?

Susan?

Susan Clays: … (Always speaks quietly and quickly.) I use blogs a lot. Some students are like, “Yea, that’s not very interesting (laughter,) but if they read carefully, they usually are interested… But yea, that can be a big …

Corey White: Anyone else?

Female Speaker: There should be requirements on how they respond, you know, like two out of four days of the week. Specific requirements on responses and use those as a communication point in the class. Specific instructions, not just … reading. (?) Things like that. When I respond to students, I use their name. I don’t just say, “Class.” I say their name; I comment on what they post and how it ties into what we’re saying. I think students like that! They like to be acknowledged by the instructor and that is how you do that in an online classroom. Use your emoticons! Like say, “This is great, dah-dah-dah!” (Laughter.) It kind of gives them the non-verbal behind what you are saying and promotes their learning and engagement in that discussion forum. And then I encourage them to help each other trouble-shoot. And I say, “Use this forum if you have any questions.” Use each other for this question to help each other out. I use learning teams or learning groups as well. I give them items that are small and they have to work together.

Female Speaker 2: … to facilitate their ability to talk to each other and setting up groups in Blackboard on workspaces for them to be in and work together. Even just little things; encourage them to sign on early each week to chat and get to know more about each other. Encourage them to post biographies and their picture so that they know what each other looks like. And I think things like that I have found makes us all close in PRTM as well. We never meet each other in person until graduation, but I think you get a sense in listening to them speak, most students start talking about meeting outside of class, they develop really personal relationships and I think that does show up in their work as well. I think that making a quote-unquote “real” classroom is really important as well.


Bob Barcelona: I think it is a great… (?) For us, I think it’s great synchronous and asynchronous. We use Adobe connect quite a bit as our primary tool. A lot of people use Blackboard and have some discussion boards and post their PowerPoint’s but we also get on Adobe Connect Tuesday nights and we all meet on there, so we’re online live with them. I’m there; we’re there; we’re all there together. I’ll create Adobe Connect groups and they can get on there whenever they want. Wikis. Facebook. Try to layer it, as many communication things as possible. One of the things we don’t have the luxury with an online class is that there’s babble. Sometimes they’ll say things that run into each other, and sometimes they’ll run into us, so we’ll duck and run (laughter.) But you have to find those spaces. How do you find room for people to have a formal setting or show face and pop in and say, “Hey, Bob’s online right now.”

Kyle Anderson: As you could imagine, not everyone wants to take accounting. I understand that a lot of students don’t. I put in rules about what they can do. They have to reply to at least two. Why do you want to take accounting or why do you just not want to take accounting? And how did you survive the first, (because I teach the second)? And that opens up a huge door of communication. I get points for connecting in Skype and posting their profile picture. I am amazed at some of the things they say, for why they want to take it or why they don’t want to. That’s worked out well.

Female Speaker: We find that students, when they’re physically separated and they have to do that final project in the graduate program, they’re not bumping into each other. I’m not sure if I’m that’s the best way to put it. They don’t have that same culture around them that they know, “Oh, you’re supposed to do this to submit this to the grad school.” Things that make that experience personal at the graduate student level. You can miss out on these things if you’re doing it online. But getting those types of things that really help…

Male Speaker: A question for Bob. When you have your students geographically dispersed, how does the synchronous portion work? How do you maintain the convenience of the online format while incorporating the synchronous component?

Bob Barcelona: That’s a good question. We haven’t had to deal with that too much because the time zones were fairly workable. So Brazil for example, a student in Canada, a student in Ireland. He’d be online a little bit later I guess it was for him.

Female Speaker: 5 AM or something?

Bob Barcelona: No, not quite that bad. He’d be on at about eleven PM, but he didn’t mind that. So, I think if we had a student from say, South Africa. Or if we had a student from China. But I think we’d have to rethink that policy a little bit. I think the synchronous component really works in terms of building community. We do all sorts of team-building things and getting to know each other. There are no electives. They take twelve courses ... (?) sequence. By the end, a second-year program, of the reports we got from our students: We got them on campus; these two guys, they’re like twins, Chris and Chris. One is from Canada and the other from Rosenberg, South Carolina. One of these guys, Chris Tompkins says, about Chris Harrison, “Boy, Chris is one of my best friends and I’ve only seen him twice! ( Laughter)” They just spend so much time together online.


Female Speaker: One of the benefits of online learning, I think one of the things that we hang our hat on so often is the convenience and flexibility of the format. But I think as we get to 2013 and beyond, we really need to be thinking of ideas for how the online environment can be truly transformative. Where we’re not worried about replicating a traditional classroom. What are some strategies of things that are transformative, things with pedagogy? We come from a traditional background. A lot of what we do is just replicating what’s already been done. I think it’s a challenging question, so…

Kyle Anderson: If you want to be an accountant, a certified public accountant, I have to do certain things like a passing exam. So my profession lends itself to distance learning. Sometimes there’s this much room between (a small amount) self-study and distance learning. … That’s the easy part for me, the content and the delivery. It’s a whole new paradigm on how students can learn it 24/7, get answers 24/7. So for me that’s the easy part. The hard part is building a community, getting them to think, “I’ll Skype my buddy or I’ll shoot him an e-mail.” That’s the part that I think is going to change, getting them to move the classroom into cyberspace.

Corey White: Dr. Anderson?

Denise Anderson: I’ve got a couple of questions. The first one is about the amount of time you expect a student to put into an online classroom. We know that in a 3-hour class, a student will spend three hours online, and three hours at home. Period. What do you expect your students to put into time, and what do you think they’re actually putting in?

Female Speaker: You know, this might be the completely wrong answer. But I’ve never really put much time into thinking how much time they put into my course. Some students are more efficient than others. I just want them to put in however long it takes them to reach a learning outcome. It might take some people ten; it might take them twenty-five. How much time do I think they’re putting in? It’s a hard question, but I get the sense… that’s a hard question! (Laughter, good natured.) Maybe ten?

Male Speaker: It’s fifteen-to-seventeen, that’s what we recommend on the syllabus. One of the things that online classes are good at is getting students to be time-efficient. So one of the great things about technology is that it allows us to have a peak of what they’re doing. So for example, if they’re working on an integrated Wiki program, I just have to look at their edits and see how much time they have spent and how many times they’ve been on. I get to peak into their work process that I’d never get to do in a face-to-face classroom. I’m sure the best students are putting in fifteen-to-seventeen hours or more. Some are doing less.

Female Speaker: That’s an accelerated course.

Hope Carroll: I think you should do that. I’m a student in an online course and I have been told by my professors, be prepared to put in at least nine hours in every week. And as a full-time working mom, I need to know that. And I think a lot of graduate students are online…

Kyle Anderson: We get this all the time. “I work full-time; you can’t expect me to work this hard.” I reply, you need to put in the time it takes to master this material. Here’s your hoops; here’s your outcome. If you can put in five hours, I admire you. But it’s probably going to take you ten-to-fifteen and other students even longer. They keep coming up to us, and what are you here? I graduated in ’79 and my


professors didn’t necessarily expect me to read over what they taught me; they wanted me to remember how they taught me how to learn it. That’s what we’re trying to do here, teaching online, teaching them how to learn. That new paradigm of education.

Hope Carroll: There are a lot of people out there doing webinars, using Skype, communicating online… these are things they’re going to have to use in the real world.

Next question. Oh, one more!

Male Speaker: Just a quick one. How do you address, as you talk about students collaborating and working together? How do you address integrity, assuming they are working on an accounting problem and presumably there’s one answer?

Kyle Anderson: When they’re doing homework, they can use any source that’s available to them. Technology is great. I can make a test and have sixty different versions, multiple choice questions. When I’m giving a test, my rule is you can’t walk, talk, or breathe. If they’re going to cheat, you’re not going to stop that small percentage. But they’re going to have to cheat fairly diligently (laughter.) And that’s going to wear thin five weeks into the course.

… (?)

Female Speaker: Locked-down browsers.

Female Speaker 2: Locked-down browser in an online environment… a locked-down browser is much better in a face-to-face environment.

Male Speaker: There have been times when I have been grading and I have thought, “Hmmm. These are two people who think very, very similarly about very subjective things.” But what I’ll do is give quizzes and randomize questions at different times. If they’re cheating, it’s going to take much longer than actually acquiring that knowledge. On an essay question, if it sounds too good to be true and very similar, I’ll call them up and say, “Hey. I’m really interested. Tell me more.” Sometimes they can respond with what they said. But if you say, “Hey. I’m really interested. Tell me more.” and they don’t come up with the right answer, then maybe it’s time to talk.

A couple more questions. I didn’t think I would, but I think I’m going to take a vote on this. I think sometimes e-learning takes flexibility and understanding. I do that because I’m an ex-cop, I’m an ex-marine. I’m nothing now, but when I first started teaching, I had a lot of military in my classes. I’m going to ask you what role you think flexibility should play? … (?) I had a kid who was in Afghanistan in the middle of a war zone taking one of my classes. I probably wasn’t as flexible in the beginning as I should have been. I went into the course after some e-mails, correspondences that we would have. And I knew he was putting a lot of work into my class. It humbled me to tears when they had to move their base really quickly. In the military, it’s called a “hump,” and you pack up everything you own and you take off. Even the little technology center where they can have access to internet. This kid humped everything he owned for eleven miles to take one of my quizzes. And it moved me to tears. So I embraced some level of flexibility in my online class. What do you think?


Female Speaker: I think it depends on knowing your audience is part of that. You’ll probably get a different answer for an online class for an undergraduate who’s taking it at home over the summer, or someone who’s here on campus, or undergraduates that all have jobs and may have families as well. They’re bringing in so much practical experience because they are working. The reality is that… their jobs come first. The standard of flexibility that I offer… I have pretty good boundaries in general. I used to think I would treat all my students okay, but I am pretty flexible. The nice thing is that online teaching for me gives me flexibility, so I try to give them the same opportunity. But again, with it being only six weeks, I can only be so flexible.

Kyle Anderson: My flexibility comes in with a variety of resources. I have a bunch of different … (?) A big variety, pick out what you like because you can be overwhelmed by all this new stuff. Deadlines… when I get a phone call or a message, I can go into my system and see that my student worked two, three, four times before the deadline and I might give them an extension of a day or two. But I can also see if a student always logs in four hours before the deadline every week and they’re just not putting in effort. I keep track to see if they’re actually participating; every course gives you that option.

Hope Carroll: I can tell you from personal experience that I had a baby at the end of the semester. And I had a final lit. review that was due and my professor knew that I was pregnant and when I was due. As a student, I think it’s the professor’s responsibility to make arrangements for you if something is coming up. I got an incomplete. But if you have a good professor, an online teacher, he would kind of remind him along the way. And the halfway through the next semester I finally turned it in. And he changed my grade.

Kyle Anderson: He gave you an incomplete due to a C-section (laughter.)

Bob Barcelona: It’s important to develop that relationship with students at the very beginning. Knowing their names, and knowing the context of their lives. You know, sometimes you know a little too much (laughter.) But it does allow more flexibility. Another thing, I think when it comes to transforming learning environments. That’s a good question. I do think it relies somewhat on flexibility, but I could redo my reading packets, at the end of every class, based on the resources that all students share. In our synchronous readings, just the other night, we were having a good conversation about divergent systems and reworking systems. And immediately I get reveling’s to Ted Talks and all this neat stuff, a research study on something that I’ve never heard of in this area. I’m able to look through these things and say, “This is some really great stuff.” Some stuff that I maybe would have never heard of. Students are sharing resources constantly. We should consider a sort of inductive, instructor, top-down sort of sharing environment. Anything else that works for you?

Corey White: I know one thing I do that my students protest. I have them do an introduction where I have them tell me who they are. And I do: I read that stuff really carefully. I want to know exactly who they are, their pets, what their mother-in-law is like. What’s the problem in that? I want to get to know my students very well. A number of students really like that interpersonal connection. You’re going to get that occasional, “I think I’m pregnant; I can’t come to class.” Those kinds of things happen. But when we talk about the biggest challenge, it’s easiest to think of it for us, the faculty, or for the students. But what about everyone, the administrative staff, the institution, everybody who comes together? This is a trail out of the forest and the woods are leading out into the wilderness. What’s the biggest challenge that you’ve dealt with or that you’ve perceived?


Female Speaker: I think one of the biggest challenges is convincing people that the online degree is worth the agreement. I don’t think I have to say anything else about that. (Sounds of agreement.)

Corey White: My students complain about the work, “Oh my god, it’s so much.” It is a lot of work.

Bob Barcelona: In 2006 this program was built and it was innovative and it was on the edge. And now in 2012, I would say that it isn’t…Other people are realizing that they can do this too. What makes our program different from say, Texas Tech or North Carolina State? Before, we got the market because we were the only game in town. But now, what sets us apart, what gives us the edge?

Kyle Anderson: When I entered in public accounting, you either survived or you get fired. When I started teaching in college, I was expected to wash out a third of my class. I hated being a gate-keeper, but what I’ve noticed is now that I’ve implemented technology, I’ve seen that third decrease every year. And when I jumped into the online homework system with multiple, staggered due dates, last spring I had a total of five percent D-effort. It pulls up those marginal students that are low-C, low-B, to solid students. The reason why students mess up is they don’t get started soon enough. It’s like I’ve found in my traditional classes, once they get used to technology, we’re going to see retention rates skyrocketing.

Susan Clay: To what extent is that indicative of certain students being the ones who kind of jump on the bandwagon and get responsible faster, as opposed to… (?)

Kyle Anderson: It’s like learning French. If I had crammed for your final exam every time, I can get through your test. But if I practice French two or three days a week, I’m learning French. And that’s how I’ve structured my class; it forces them to keep on. If I practice French four times this week versus someone else who practices two hours before your test.

Corey White: Alright, wrapping it up here. You’ve had an hour and half to think about it. What would a chair look like if the knees bent the other way? We’re going to challenge everyone: the faculty, the students, administrators, everyone. If you go to Disney world and you’re tired and your feet ache and your back hurts and your kids, oh my God. Some trails in Cesar’s Head, I think they never end (laughter). If you’re going around at Disney World on trails, you’ll find things that aren’t chairs, they’re little notches in a tree, that have been wiped because you have found people who have been sitting there because they need to sit. In the online learning environment, people need to learn. I challenge you to look for those little nooks and crannies in whatever medium, or online environment, or assignment or quiz that doesn’t look like a chair, but is an opportunity to teach and learn, because I learn as much from my students as I think they do from me. So look for those little places that don’t really look like a chair or a learning opportunity, but really are.

Thank you all for coming! Thank you panelists for sharing.

Female Speaker: And thank you Corey!

Documents

media.clemson.edumedia.clemson.edu/ccit/CRLT/media/distance_ed/ndlw/P… · Web viewIt’s already gone through the board of trustees and ... I travel to speak to CPA’s right