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edigitaltranscription.comVELOCITEACH

EVENT: PODCAST

SERIES: MANAGE THIS

EPISODE: 076

DATE: TUESDAY, MARCH 5, 2019

MODERATOR: NICK WALKER

EXPERTS: ANDY CROWE & BILL YATES

GUEST: LAURA BUTCHER

SOURCE: MANAGE THIS LAURA BUTCHER EDITED.MP3

LENGTH: 39 MINUTES

Table of Contents00:53 … Meet Laura04:21 … Learning and Development05:18 … Working Internationally11:44 … Representing H.Q. Remotely15:56 … Culture Differences17:11 … Inheriting a Position22:30 … Stakeholder Engagement24:56 … Reading a Room28:21 … Empathy and Humility30:47 … Building Trust33:27 … Mistakes to Avoid36:38 … Closing

LAURA BUTCHER: I think, because now my work is largely about

serving clients and building relationships with clients who are

my customers in my work now, I think stakeholder engagement is so

essential.

VELOCITEACH / PODCAST / MANAGE THIS / EPISODE 076

NICK WALKER: Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project

managers for project managers. This is our time to meet and talk

about what really matters to you in the field of project

management. Our desire is to give you some perspective, some

ideas, some real-life examples of what success looks like and how

to get there.

I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me are the two guys who

guide our discussion, Andy Crowe and Bill Yates. And today we

get to talk with someone who truly has a global perspective as a

project manager.

Meet Laura

Laura Butcher is an organization and leadership development

consultant. She began in human resources at GE Appliances and GE

Aircraft Engines; then at NationsBank, where she led teams

following the NationsBank/Bank America merger. After that, she

made the move to London as Delta Air Lines Director of Human

Resources in Europe. Laura is the co-founder and principal of

Blue Key Partners, a consulting practice focused in the areas of

learning and leadership development, including executive

assessment and coaching. Laura, thanks so much for being here

with us on Manage This.

LAURA BUTCHER: Thank you for inviting me.

2


NICK WALKER: We want to talk with you about working with global

customers and engaging with stakeholders around the world. But

first of all, can we just take some time to get to know you a

little bit better? Tell us a little bit about yourself and

what your first experiences were like with GE as you

traveled internationally.

LAURA BUTCHER: So my background in corporate America was with

GE, Bank of America, and Delta Air Lines for about 15 years.

ANDY CROWE: Small companies.

BILL YATES: Yeah.

LAURA BUTCHER: And then began my consulting practice about 12

years ago, largely in the areas of organization development,

leadership development. But my early experiences were in the

human resources function, where I became very passionate about

learning and development. I had experiences supporting many

global joint venture partners with GE Appliances and GE Aircraft

Engines. I did some work with GE Crotonville, which is the

corporate leadership training institute in Crotonville, New York,

where I was part of an adjunct faculty to take some of the GE

Work-Out and Change Acceleration Program training to our

colleagues in Asia and Europe. So I was bitten with the bug of

working internationally in my early days with GE.

3


NICK WALKER: What kind of prompted you? What was it that bit

you about working internationally?

LAURA BUTCHER: I think I always enjoyed the experience of seeing

new places, experiencing new things, eating new cuisines, seeing

sights and the history of places. But I think beyond that I

began to really appreciate working with people who see the world

differently from myself. So I think that’s what I found

particularly engaging about it. So oftentimes the work that

we’re doing in human resources or in training and development is

complex anyway because we’re dealing with human behavior. But

when you add the dimension of culture differences on top of that,

it can be quite interesting work, and fulfilling.

NICK WALKER: What countries did you deal with when you were with

GE?

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, we had joint venture partners in Asia. So

we were establishing a joint venture site with a Korean firm, but

the site was in China. So we had multiple cultures that we were

bringing together there. We also had a joint venture partner in

India, so I traveled to those places, working with our partners

in the learning and development function largely. So a lot of

what GE brings to its partners around the world is its culture

and its reputation for excellence in training and development of

people. And so that was a great foundation for my career to

begin, and it provided me a launching pad to continue to do what

I’m doing now.

4


Learning and Development

ANDY CROWE: Laura, it’s funny, I got asked about a decade ago by

somebody what my opinion was on the state of L&D. And when I

heard that, I thought, L&D? What is that? And I’m thinking, is

this – I could not get past the fact that I’m used to thinking of

it as labor and delivery, not learning and development. It was

just funny, you know, you hear this, these terms put around. But

why are you passionate about that? Why is that a particular

passion for you?

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, I always have believed that great leaders

are great learners, people who are constantly challenging

themselves to explore new things, to push themselves out of their

comfort zone. And so I think that’s a principle on which my

career, my interests have expanded.

ANDY CROWE: You know, I’ve seen great leaders are almost always

great readers, so that ties in with what you’re saying.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes, yes, absolutely.

BILL YATES: True, great leaders.

International Perspectives

5


NICK WALKER: There’s got to be a learning curve, though, when it

comes to working with people internationally. Did you find it

initially challenging?

LAURA BUTCHER: Oh, I found several occasions, and I continue to

find occasions where it’s challenging. I’ve had the great

fortune this past year to continue to work outside of the U.S.

with clients both in Europe and in Asia. And it’s always

challenging. It’s always challenging not to fall into the trap

of seeing things from your perspective only. And I think that’s

something that I have to challenge myself to step back and say,

you know, what am I presuming about this situation that I ought

to be questioning, rather than assuming?

BILL YATES: Laura, one of the experiences that you’ve had that’s

really unique is you’ve also lived and worked outside of the

nation that you were born in, in our case the U.S. When you were

working for Delta Air Lines – another small company – you had the

opportunity to move; and you served as the director of human

resources for Europe, and you were based out of London.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes, yes.

BILL YATES: So you moved to London.

LAURA BUTCHER: Exactly.

6


BILL YATES: That had to be an exciting, but intimidating,

opportunity for you.

LAURA BUTCHER: So I did the triple challenge, I guess. I

changed jobs and changed companies. So when I moved to Delta Air

Lines my first assignment with Delta was in the U.K. I moved

homes, so I left a comfortable place in the United States for the

unknown of moving house and all of those things. And then I had

a child, all at the same time.

BILL YATES: Oh, wow.

LAURA BUTCHER: So those things are not customarily happening all

at the same time for someone.

ANDY CROWE: Because anything worth doing’s worth

overdoing; right?

LAURA BUTCHER: Exactly. Exactly. Right?

BILL YATES: So there were a bunch of obstacles, I mean, this is

an amazing opportunity. But one of the obstacles that I wanted

to ask you about, because I know we have listeners who have these

kind of opportunities, how did you overcome being the American in

another nation? So in this case in the U.K.

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, in the U.K. I always have a funny saying

that we’re two countries divided by a common language; right?

7


ANDY CROWE: Common language, yes.

BILL YATES: Yes.

LAURA BUTCHER: So again, the assumption that, simply because we

both are speaking English, that we’re communicating effectively

is not necessarily a good assumption. The other thing is just

being able to adapt your style and approach to be more like that

of the people that you’re interacting with. So understanding

that the sense of humor can be different, that the use of

language can be different. People can be far more direct or

indirect. The way people view authority in the organization and

how decisions get made and how influence is managed, all of those

things have a cultural dimension to them. So even understanding

between the U.S. and U.K. what those differences look and feel

like.

You know, I also in that role had responsibility for supporting

13 countries ranging from Russia, Turkey, India, Greece, to the

U.K. So we had a range of cultures within that, and experiences

of the staff and teammates that I work with. So that was – it

was just a great personal and professional experience because it

added that dimension of culture on top of the professional

function that I supported.

NICK WALKER: I’m wondering if you can think of any examples of

maybe communication difficulties. Anything off the top of

your head?

8


LAURA BUTCHER: I can certainly think of times when I had to

almost rise up out of myself and look at the situation as if I

were watching it as a movie. I found myself one time, we were

having to restructure teams in various countries to downsize or

to outsource certain functions. And one of those occasions

happened to be in Greece. So I found myself on the four-hour

flight from London to Athens to meet with the Labor Minister of

Greece. And I’m thinking on the flight, I could never have

predicted that this would be where I would be, you know, a year

ago. And I’m not quite certain what will happen when I get here.

And so the saying “It’s all Greek to me,” that was exactly what

this experience was like because the meeting took place, and all

that was spoken in the meeting was in Greek, and I had to work

through translators. And of course the emotion level just in a

normal conversation with people of Greek origin tends to be a

little heightened from our own here in the U.S. And so all of

those cues were sending off so many things in my mind, and me

trying to understand, what’s my role here? How do I influence

the outcome when I’m not working within an element that I’m

comfortable? So it was really an interesting experience.

ANDY CROWE: You touched on something that made me think. When

you said there are many times I have to rise up out of my own

situation and look at it, that is one of my favorite tools to

use, not just in cultural situations, but any time I’m in maybe a

crisis, some problem that’s really weighing on me, is to stop and

think, okay, if I were a consultant, or if I were a friend, what

9


advice would I give a person in this situation. And it helps to

– I don’t know what it is about that, if it just breaks that

cycle of anxiety or stress or whatever. But it’s a helpful

technique you kind of touched on there.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. Well, I think it helps to step out of your

own position.

ANDY CROWE: But that’s hard.

LAURA BUTCHER: Oh, it’s so hard. It’s so hard.

ANDY CROWE: You make it sound easy.

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, we get very invested in our positions.

ANDY CROWE: I do.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. We like to be right. We like to have the

answer. We like to be seen as the expert. And I think it takes

a degree of humility to step back and say...

ANDY CROWE: Ego gets in the way.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yeah. I don’t always know the answer, or I

shouldn’t presume I know the answer.

Representing H.Q. Remotely

10


BILL YATES: Right. That brings me right to another obstacle

that I’m assuming you had to overcome. So Delta is based in the

U.S. You were sent – there you are in London. You’re working

with all these other nations then out of London. But you’re

still the one sent from HQ. Now, I can relate to that a bit

where I was kind of the person sent out to the remote location.

So how did you overcome that obstacle? Because sometimes those

people are seen as the snitch or the insider or the one who’s

going to be toeing the company line. So how did you overcome

some of that?

LAURA BUTCHER: Yeah, I think it’s not uncommon for the finance

leader and the human resources leader in multinational companies,

for those two leadership roles to often be people who’ve been

deployed from headquarters or from the home country, if you will,

into those field assignments, whether those are even in the U.S.

You’ll oftentimes see that the HR person, the finance person or

leaders are from the headquarters organization. And I think

that’s largely because finance is the steward of the fiscal

elements of the organization, and human resources often is the

steward of the culture or the values of the organization and

ambassadors to take that out and to ensure there’s some

orientation to that in all the locations.

So I think that that’s, in sophisticated multinational companies,

that’s probably not uncommon to have people deployed from

headquarters. But I do think that part of building trust in

those roles is to acknowledge when headquarters doesn’t have it

11


right, necessarily, or to help translate what headquarters is

trying to accomplish. And maybe they’re not going about it in a

way that’s completely aligned with how the region or the field

organization might choose to implement. But providing a

feedback, a conduit of information and feedback from the region

to headquarters, if you have strong relationships back at

headquarters, you can often elevate issues that wouldn’t

otherwise get attention at headquarters. So when you can take on

something that’s important to the people that you’re supporting

in that region and be successful in influencing an outcome that’s

favorable in their view or that recognizes how they might be

different from headquarters...

BILL YATES: Your stock goes up.

LAURA BUTCHER: Your stock goes up.

ANDY CROWE: But you know what, those two functions that you

named are both kind of intimidating, too, to a lot of people. A

lot of people, their stomachs tighten up when they see somebody

come in from finance or they see somebody come in from HR because

those two a lot of times are imposing some kind of compliance or

trying to bring people into compliance in some areas – fiscal

compliance, fiscal oversight, HR compliance. And it’s

intimidating.

You know, one of the things you see in corporations around the

world all the time is they’re either going from a centralized

12


model where headquarters is very strong and in control and sort

of distributing out that compliance, or the power is swinging out

to the markets, and the markets are coming back, and they’re

making their own decisions, and there’s a little bit of

independence. And there’s a constant expansion contraction about

that, and it’s really funny. You hear all the markets say,

“Headquarters is out of touch. They don’t know what’s going on.

They’re coming down with all these rules. We’re the ones making

the money. Leave us alone to run our business.” Up to a point.

Then all of a sudden the chains come on and the walls clamp down;

right.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes, because there is no one right answer

to that.

ANDY CROWE: No, it changes.

LAURA BUTCHER: Centralized or decentralized. And I think that

organizations course correct over time because they find they’ve

pushed the boundary too far in terms of autonomy of the regions,

or they’ve pushed the boundary too far in terms of centralization

functions.

ANDY CROWE: The healthy ones course correct.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yeah, right, right.

13


ANDY CROWE: But that’s the job of leadership is to constantly be

monitoring that and feeling which way it’s going, and is it

headed the right direction, or is it too much the Wild West.

LAURA BUTCHER: Exactly.

Culture Differences

NICK WALKER: And that’s got to be an especial challenge when

you’re dealing with different cultures. You said as the HR

person you were sort of the keeper of the culture. But when

you’re dealing with a different culture, did you ever run into a

situation where they said, “You know, we just don’t do it that

way. We do things differently here.”

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. I have certainly experienced situations

where there was a policy or a practice that was being emanated

from headquarters that this is something we want to have

implemented throughout all of our operation, which culturally

wasn’t well suited in some cases. I’ll go back to the example

that I shared about the outsourcing and my experience in Greece.

Well, outsourcing was a customary practice in a lot of

corporations for certain noncritical functions. But in some

countries, that procedure and that process is culturally counter

to what people believe about how organizations, you know, what

role organizations and companies play in one’s life or

livelihood. So those experiences, yes, you see the clash

very clearly.

14


Inheriting a Position

BILL YATES: When you look back over your experience, Laura, with

Delta Air Lines in London, based in London, I know you’ve got a

lot of lessons learned. One of the ones that you and I talked

about was the fact that you were walking into a situation and

inheriting. It wasn’t a new position; you were inheriting a

position. There are so many of our project managers that can

relate to that. There are leaders who are stepping in and

replacing a leader who was there before.

ANDY CROWE: Always really fun to jump on a horse midstream.

BILL YATES: Right, try to figure things out.

LAURA BUTCHER: What direction are we going. Right, exactly.

BILL YATES: You brought out such a great point of, boy, it’s

good to know what you’re stepping into. It’s good to know the

history. Talk a bit about that.

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, I’ve had an experience of having a number

of jobs, some of which I followed people who have been perceived

as less than effective. And sometimes you follow people who have

been perceived...

ANDY CROWE: They’re legendary.

15


LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. They’ve already put the plaque with their

picture on the wall and – yes. So understanding the context in

which you’re taking on a new assignment, whether it be a new role

formally in the organization, or a new project or program that

you’re taking ownership for, I think is particularly important

because how you approach those early days in those new

assignments can vary dramatically in terms of things you can do

to be more effective and more likely to be successful, and things

that you can do that actually are obstacles to your success.

BILL YATES: So how do you do that homework? What’s appropriate

to ask or dig into?

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, certainly from the person that you’re

working for, to understand what is the history of this role in

the organization? What’s the reputation of this role? How do

people view the work that this role is responsible for? And then

learning a great deal about your predecessor. What was working

well that your predecessor was doing? What were things that

people still see opportunity for improvement? Those might be the

early places that you want to focus on. And certainly to be

respectful of things that are working well because I think so

often people jump into jobs, and they’re trying to make a

difference so quickly that they don’t take stock of things that

are important to other people that be maintained, or some

consistency that people want to feel so that not everything is

changing all at once, but that you’re being very selective and

16


intentional about the things you’re choosing to change and the

sequence of those.

BILL YATES: Humans fear change. Great point. The team that

you’re inheriting, they fear change. Their leader has changed.

So be aware that don’t try to change everything at once.

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, that’s, you know, taking away uncertainty

from people. I think when people feel uncertain, people tend to

stop what they’re doing, and that slows the organization down.

So if you can remove uncertainty for people to say, you know,

what we’re doing here is very, very important, and we need to

keep our foot on the gas. Move forward and don’t let the change

of my coming into this role be an impediment to us continuing to

make progress on that.

ANDY CROWE: There’s a cynical old truism that, if you’re new in

a role, the first person you can blame is the guy or the girl who

just left. And then the second one you blame is the vendor.

BILL YATES: Right.

LAURA BUTCHER: You do have that honeymoon period, though, I

think, where you can ask a lot of questions. You can not feel

like you have to have all the answers. You can demonstrate that

you are a good listener and that you care about what other

people, what motivates other people, what needs they have, how

you can be responsive to them.

17


ANDY CROWE: I’ve seen so many people struggle coming into that

honeymoon period, though, when they’ve got it all teed up,

everything’s laid out beautifully for them, and they struggle to

get traction. And I’ve watched it happen over and over. Some

people do, I mean, the successful ones do, the ones who are going

to move on in their career. But there is a significant

percentage of people who walk into a new situation, and I don’t

know if they’re suffering from imposter syndrome or they truly

freeze up and don’t know what to do, but instead of walking in

and saying, okay, I’ve got a plan, and here we go.

And so one of the things that Bill and I work on is coming up

with a 90-day plan for somebody when they start to try and at

least illuminate, okay, here’s what success could look like, you

know, here’s a series of steps. Because it can be intimidating.

Somebody walks into a new position halfway through a project or

halfway through or even at the beginning, and they don’t know

what to do. I don’t know if that’s it. I don’t know what it is.

Something goes wrong in there and disrupts that.

LAURA BUTCHER: I think the idea of having a structured plan to

orient someone to a new role. And if that’s not provided by your

manager, you need to create it yourself.

ANDY CROWE: Do it yourself.

BILL YATES: Yeah.

18


ANDY CROWE: It’s almost negligent to just bring somebody into a

position, drop them and leave them and say, well, figure it out.

Some people will. You know, the really smart ones, the really

successful, driven, Type A people will. But a lot of people

don’t know, I mean, they don’t even know what success looks like,

so at least give them some vision.

Stakeholder Engagement

NICK WALKER: I want to draw on your experience a little bit.

You’ve been in human resources. You’re a consultant now. You

are able to sort of bring a broad perspective to some of the

issues facing project managers these days. One of those issues

is face-to-face engagement, stakeholder engagement that we’re

seeing so much more of these days. What advice would you give to

folks who maybe are seeing more of this in their job descriptions

that maybe they haven’t before?

LAURA BUTCHER: I think, because now my work is largely about

serving clients and building relationships with clients who are

my customers in my work now, I think stakeholder engagement is so

essential as a practice, and to have strong skills in that area;

to understand people’s goals, to understand your clients’ or

customers’ goals, to understand their needs, to understand their

motivations, their personal aspirations. So the more you can

understand all of that is context, the better you can support

them in achieving those things. And if your client can achieve

what they’re after, you will achieve what you’re after. So I

19


believe that that’s a mutually complementary situation. So

stakeholder engagement to me is essential to success as

a consultant.

BILL YATES: One of the things that I should let our listeners

know, too, is I’ve seen Laura perform firsthand. As an

organization, we partnered with Laura’s organization on past

projects. And that’s one reason she’s in here, because she’s

phenomenal at stakeholder engagement.

ANDY CROWE: All right. I want you to elaborate on that because

you had some high praise, and Bill and I can be tough critics.

And so you had some high praise about that engagement when you

came back.

BILL YATES: Yeah. I’d come back to the office, and I’d say,

okay, Laura’s got it going on. I see the depth of relationship

that she has with the key decision makers at this customer. This

is a very large, large organization, and those that we were

working with were in very high positions. And there was a level

of trust and familiarity. There was a depth to that relationship

that I could tell had been cultivated for a long time. So we

hold you in high regard. You do really well at that.

LAURA BUTCHER: Thank you, thank you. And likewise, likewise.

It’s mutual.

Reading a Room

20


ANDY CROWE: Yeah. And Bill specifically commented on your

ability to read a room and to read individuals in the room.

BILL YATES: Oh, she’s phenomenal.

ANDY CROWE: So I want to go ahead and put you on the spot

about that.

BILL YATES: Yeah.

ANDY CROWE: Any advice you can give people related to – is that

just intuition? Is it just something you’re born with? Is it

something you’ve cultivated and you have a strategy for?

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, I think doing your homework is really

important. You know, to step into a meeting without

understanding who’s going to be in the room and what are they

likely to – what’s likely their view about this, and even asking

directly what is your view about this before you get into

the meeting.

ANDY CROWE: I love that. Yeah, because who knows, you read

something about me online, that may tell you next to nothing

about who I am and what I’m like.

LAURA BUTCHER: Right, or how this topic is either important to

you or not important to you, or in what way. So doing your

homework and asking a lot of questions to get a sense of what are

21


the dynamics that are going on around this topic, the meeting

that I’m leading or the meeting that I’m attending and that kind

of thing.

ANDY CROWE: So that’s a methodical approach. So it’s not

intuition at all. It’s a left brain logical flow chart? What?

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, it’s probably a combination of the two. I

tend to be more structured in my approach to the work that I do.

ANDY CROWE: So do I, yeah.

LAURA BUTCHER: So that’s more my comfort zone. So to take a

more logical kind of fact-based planful approach would be more my

natural tendency. I have worked with others who I observe their

strengths to be in far more intuitive understanding of what’s

going on in the room. And so when you can find a partner who has

that strength to marry up with my more planful approach, that’s a

powerful combination.

ANDY CROWE: So I did that formally. My wife is very intuitive,

and kind of frighteningly intuitive about people. She reads

people really, really well. And our son has an interesting

mixture because he can also read people really well. He’s

probably more like her than he is like me because I don’t. I

take it at face value. If you tell me something, I’m just going

to assume that you’re telling me the truth and that there’s no

hidden agenda. She’s not that way. She can read people really

22


well. I mean, it’s almost like one of the X-Men or something. So

it’s an interesting talent I don’t have.

LAURA BUTCHER: Superpower.

ANDY CROWE: No, it is. We call that her superpower. And I

admire it. I don’t have it. It’s just an interesting thing.

I’m probably more like you, taking a more studious approach and a

more analytical approach.

BILL YATES: Well, I’ve seen the right brain of Laura in action,

too. She does read a room extremely well. She’s done her

homework. But then she’s picking up on body language, tone of

voice, even positioning, where people are standing or sitting in

a room. We were working, in some of our experience, we were

working with a number of cohorts. And there were other vendors,

there were other providers of training who were there that had

particular specialties. And just seeing how she – she was

the orchestrator.

So she was reading the room, making sure that the right voices

were being heard at the right time, and not letting anyone take

over the room that would be to the detriment of the goals of the

course. And so there’s some right brain in there, too.

Empathy and Humility

23


But I know, you know, there are two keywords that, Laura, you

shared with me. One of the things that I think you’ve shared one

of your keys to success is being able to demonstrate empathy and

humility. And just elaborate on that a bit.

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, I think being able to have the perspective

of others and to see their point of view. Again, I think largely

we are often in selling mode. We’re selling our ideas. We’re

selling our solutions. We’re selling our credibility and

expertise. And sometimes that gets in the way of actually

finding the best solution or finding a solution that everyone can

support. So being able to step outside again and look at the

situation more broadly, to see things from other people’s point

of view I think has been very important to my success, to the

fulfillment that I receive out of the work that I do, and

hopefully to my clients’ and customers’ success.

ANDY CROWE: That’s an incredibly refined skill, though, because

today, you know, in the climate we’re in, if somebody disagrees

with you, then the first thing you do is project negative motives

on them. They’re a bad person. They’re part of a bad political

movement, whatever it is. There’s no subtlety of trying to look

at things from their perspective. And I’ve used this a long time

ago. I had a person that I had a lot of conflict with this guy.

And we constantly were locking horns over one thing or another.

And I started finally saying, okay, here’s what I believe your

argument is, or your position is. Am I correct? And I would go

24


through it with him until we got it right. But a lot of times

when I’d turn around and say, tell me what you think mine is, and

it would be, well, you just don’t like me, or you just – you

know, it would be something like that. It’s hard to step out of

your own story and look at it objectively. I mean, again, that’s

an incredible skill to cultivate.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. And it takes a tremendous amount of trust

to be able to have that kind of conversation with people. So

again, I think it does comes back to how have you established

trusting relationships with the people that you’re working with

so that you can disagree, but still work productively together

and seek solutions that everyone can support.

Building Trust

BILL YATES: I wanted to ask a follow-up question on that, Laura,

building trust, icebreaking. What advice do you have for project

managers who are moving into this customer-facing role or some

other level of higher exposure they have with clients, key

decision makers. They’re looking for advice. How can I break

the ice? How can I build that trust? What are some tips you’d

give them?

LAURA BUTCHER: Well, I think, again, do your homework. So know

the audience that you’re interacting with, whether that be an

executive sponsor for your project or program. It could be an

external customer or another third party that you need to partner

25


with to achieve the goals of your project or program. But know

your audience and be ready to adapt your style to that audience

or that culture. So I talk about culture in terms of

international experiences or experiences working in other parts

of the world. But culture differences exist within all

organizations. And so even within your own organization, whether

it’s a field or a headquarters location, or it might be marketing

or engineering, they have different cultural norms that exist

within the organization. So understand...

ANDY CROWE: Goodness, IT does.

LAURA BUTCHER: Oh, yes, yes, our friends in IT, and human

resources, for that matter. So, yeah. So understanding your

audience and being able to adapt to work within the norms of that

organization.

NICK WALKER: And as a project manager, project managers are

sometimes caught in the middle. You’re that middle person

between the sponsor, the team members, the contractors, all the

stakeholders. And you’re probably dealing with different

cultures, different personalities. What are the particular

challenges of being able to empathize with all of those?

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. And I haven’t mentioned communications, but

communications and information sharing, perspective sharing, is

essential. So when you’ve got subcontractors and contractors and

clients, and you’re working to try to align these resources

26


toward a common goal, communication is essential, effective

communication. But again, framing communication in a way that

it’s easily digestible and acceptable by the audience. So

understanding their communication style and being able to adapt

your style to work for them builds credibility, and it builds

trust and confidence among the team that there’s a clear

direction, and that there is alignment.

Mistakes to Avoid

BILL YATES: Have you seen, Laura, along that line, because this

is such a common role where we’re kind of the guy, the gal in the

middle, you know, we are that person in the middle as a project

manager. Have you seen, do you have any quick advice for, okay,

please don’t do this? Any mistakes you’ve seen that you just

kind of want to shine a light on?

LAURA BUTCHER: I guess one thing that I’ve experienced, or maybe

it’s been even the party where this happened to, as opposed to

the person leading the project, is where we make certain partners

feel less than equal on the team.

BILL YATES: Play favorites.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes. And so by minimizing their role or not

shining the light on the things that they’ve done well, sometimes

we get less than what they’re capable of contributing to the

project or program. And so I think that helping to establish a

27


climate whereby there’s a high degree of respect, you know,

irrespective of the role that one might be playing on the team,

is important to get the best out of every person on the team.

ANDY CROWE: It’s such a tough gig, too, being a project manager,

because you’ve got to advocate for the team at the right times.

You’ve got to advocate for the customer or senior management at

right times. You have to advocate for the project all the time.

But you don’t over-advocate for the project. You don’t want to

do that to the detriment of other goals the organization has.

And it is a constant adjusting of levers as a PM. It’s just a

tough, tough job.

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes.

BILL YATES: Every day is a new day.

LAURA BUTCHER: Things are changing around you. You know, the

project isn’t operating in isolation. It’s part of a bigger

system. It’s part of the bigger organization. And priorities

change in the organization. So not to get overly wed to the

project or program because it will evolve. It will change.

ANDY CROWE: When I was early in my PM career, I thought as a

leader that I was supposed to constantly advocate for the team

and protect the team at all costs, and that that was my role.

And I missed a lot of things because I was solely focused on

that. I missed other things going on in the organization. I

28


missed things going on with the project because I constantly

wanted to protect my team.

BILL YATES: Andy, if management came to you and said, “I’m going

to need that resource off of your team now, I’ve got something

more important to put him on,” how did you react to that?

ANDY CROWE: See, but that’s exactly right. I would have reacted

very negatively, but that’s a shortsighted view because the

organization has other priorities other than my team and my

project. And so you learn that as you get – I guess as you get

experience. Maybe some people are born with knowing that.

I wasn’t.

LAURA BUTCHER: And I think that as a project or program manager

you bring a lot of value when you can help to connect the work

that you’re doing with other things that are going on in

the organization. Your credibility is enhanced tremendously when

you can see the bigger picture and where your project or program

fits within that.

ANDY CROWE: And you look up, you look out, you understand the

organization strategy as best you can and how your project

relates to it, absolutely.

Closing

29


NICK WALKER: Well, Laura Butcher, thank you so much for taking

the time to share your expertise with us. How can folks get in

touch with you, if they’re interested in your

consulting services?

LAURA BUTCHER: Yes, well, we have a website at

www.bluekeypartners.com. So you can find more information about

the work that we do in leadership development and learning design

there. And of course I have a LinkedIn profile. So that’s a

great way to get in touch with me directly.

NICK WALKER: And before you go, we always like to have a little

present for our guests. This Manage This coffee mug is yours.

LAURA BUTCHER: Perfect. I love coffee, as you can see. So I’ll

put that to good use, thank you.

NICK WALKER: Thanks again, Laura.

LAURA BUTCHER: Thank you very much for the opportunity.

NICK WALKER: Well, thank you so much again, Laura. Now a word

to our listeners. If you’re looking for the credits you need to

renew your project management certifications, we are a source of

those valuable Professional Development Units. And you’ve

already earned those PDUs just for listening to this podcast.

It’s easy to claim them. Go to Velociteach.com and choose Manage

30

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This Podcast from the top of the page. Click the button that

says Claim PDUs and click through the steps.

That’s it for us here on Manage This. We hope you’ll tune back

in on March 19th for our next podcast. In the meantime, we’d

love to have you visit us at Velociteach.com/managethis to

subscribe to this podcast, to see a transcript of the show, or to

contact us. And tweet us at @manage_this if you have any

questions about our podcasts or about project

management certifications.

That’s all for this episode. Thanks for joining us. Until next

time, keep calm and Manage This.

31

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Manage This Podcast - velociteach.com€¦ · Web viewNow a word to our listeners. If you’re looking for the credits you need to renew your project management certifications,