Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)

8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)

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Transcription of Episode 10 A Brave, New World

Participants:

Adam B. Levine (A.L.) Host

Andreas M. Antonopolous (A.A.) Co-host

Stephan Murph (S.M.) Co-host

Andreas Petersson (A.P.) - Bitcoinupdate.com

!ustice (!) Listener" #peanut $aller%& spea's or ver short time& appears at

*:+,

Adam B. Levine: Hello everod& Adam B. Levine here. /anna /elcome ou to

this special episode o Let0s 1al' Bitcoin. 2ecorded at the ver end o the

conerence& Stephanie Murph and /ere 3oined or this late-ni$ht roundup

Andreas Petersson o itcoinupdate.com. n this episode /e discuss our avourite

thin$s& our thou$hts& our vie/s and our hopes. hope ou en3o this episode as

much as /e en3oed ma'in$ it.

Stephan Murph: 4otta have the hat /hen ou /rap up the part5

A.L.: 6ell& 0m trin$ to portra this anachronisti c vie /here 0ve $ot the

suspenders $oin$ on...

S.M.: noticed that5 li'e that loo'5

A.L.: al/as /ear suspenders" it0s ecause have this idea that 3ournalism is

this dead art rom a past a$e& and i ou replicate the vie& ou can rin$ it ac'.

S.M.: 7ou do& and ou0ve $ot our ad$e on our shirt 3ust li'e an old-school- ou

loo' li'e ou stepped out o the 89;s.

A.P.: 7eah& it0s crao& he0s not& he0s-

S.M.: ?@& /ell /e have an Andreas5 t0s Adam and Stephanie and Andreas notthe Andreas that ou0re used to5


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A.L.: 6e0re 3oined Andreas Petersson rom the Bitcoin 2eport -

A.P.: Actuall& it0s the Bitcoin pdate. 1heitcoinupdate.com.

A.L.: 1heitcoinupdate.com& /hich is the /orld0s onl& and est& 4erman-

lan$ua$e Bitcoin-speciic podcast& and ou $us are /ee'l& ri$ht=

A.P.: actl& es& /e do record /ee'l as ar as it0s possile& and so ar /e0ve

made it /ee'l. 6e started out as a ver small podcast as a se$ment in an

open-source podcast& /here there is a lot o eer ein$ consumed. People li'e me

3ust met on the street and tal'ed aout open-source& and the topic al/as circled

around ou can $uess the Bitcoin. So it /as ta'in$ a hu$e share in this

podcast& so /e decided to ma'e a se$ment dedicated to that& spin it o& and

thin' that0s een a $ood success so ar.

A.L.: 6ell& don0t spea' 4erman& ut hear $ood thin$s. ou $us start doin$

transcripts& 0ll e ale to $ive ou more eedac' on our content& ut as itstands ri$ht no/& $uess /e should proal intro ourselves ri$ht no/.

t0s aout& /hat& ten o0 cloc' at ni$ht on Sunda& the last da o the Bitcoin

estival or the Bitcoin conerence ;8+& and /e are all ehausted.

A.P.: So /e are eelin$ ri$ht eore the han$over= s that correct=

S.M.: thin' this isthe han$over...

A.P.: 7ou have to sleep to have a han$over5

A.L.: So this /as a hell o a thin$& /asn0t it= 'no/ that had prett hi$hepectations $oin$ into it& ecause /as thin'in$ that this is somethin$ that0s

comin$ the time is ri$ht& there0s a lot o people comin$ in rom all over the

/orld ut it 3ust reall le/ me a/a& $otta sa. Andreas so ou /ere here

oth as a - /ant to sa #vendor% ut that0s the /ron$ /ord ou /ere here

displain$ or Mcelium& /hich /as reall one o the most interestin$ pro3ects -

S.M.: He /as one o the ooth aes. >o& 3ust 'iddin$5

A.P.: 7eah& /e had nice ooth aes& and /e /ere the main sponsors o this

conerence and /e tried to present our platorm to the $eneral audience and

$et some eedac' on it& so our main product /ill e the Bitcoincard. At

itcoincard.or$& ou can see an inspirational video that0s sort o a vision o /hat

is $oin$ to come" o course& the irst iteration /e are $oin$ to sho/ is $oin$ to e

a little it& let0s sa& do/n to arth-

S.M.: 6hat are the other products= /as onl a/are o the Bitcoincard.

A.P.: 7eah& so the Bitcoincard is the main product& and to support it /e /ill create

a /hole unch o additional products that ou can use /ith it" so the Mcelium

/allet /ill e on the Pla Store& hopeull ver soon& actuall& and /e /ill have

solutions or merchants to use Bitcoin in a ver eas /a& so ou can sell our

products or itcoin ver easil& and ou don0t have a currenc ris'& and ou0d


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have several conirmations& and /e $uarantee that ou0ll $et the mone ut

that0s a little it ar out in the uture& so ou can0t $et that ri$ht no/. 1he /allet

/ill e& proal& the irst thin$ that /ill e availale or Mcelium.

A.L.: So /e0re $onna have Ale - the visionar ehind that product on& as soon

as he $ets ac' to Mosco/. spent m entire DdaE esterda asicall oo'in$our net our /ee's0 /orth o $uests& and -

S.M.: 6o/& hi$h ive5 Loo' at ou5

A.L.: 6ell& Stephanie& mean 4od& ou recorded li'e iteen intervie/s...

S.M.: ?h no& it0s more li'e thirt at this point5 6e0re $onna have content or

months& i /e /ant it. 6e mi$ht have to release a /hole podcast that0s 3ust

intervie/s& or somethin$ li'e that.

A.L..: 6ell a$ain& the onus content thin$ 3ust has to happen& ecause there0s so

much content comin$ out o this. 6e haven0t reall tal'ed aout speciics&

esides the Mcelium card& ut the people /ho are presentin$ ideas here one o

the $us /ho $ave a presentation that reall& reall li'ed his name is !ohn

Li$ht& /e0re $onna have him on the sho/ his concept is& he0s reall ocused on

cloud identit mana$ement& /ith the idea that Faceoo' and these other

platorms are essentiall data silos that ta'e our data and turn the customer into

the product. thin' that0s 'ind o ovious i ou loo' at the sstem and sa #?@&

/ell& ho/ are the ma'in$ mone=% - /ell& oviousl& that0s ho/ it is. So his idea

/ith this tal' on personal clouds is to unctionall ta'e that concept o #here0s

our identit& here0s all this data aout ou that $oes in the cloud% - it0s all

encrpted& and ou have complete control over /ho $ets to see /hat and ou

essentiall open channels to various people& and it0s almost li'e /hen ou

#riend% someod in this sstem& ou0re si$nin$ a contract /ith them& sain$ #0d

li'e to share this inormation /ith ou%& and ou can set reall rich parameters on

it& too& so mae some people ou onl /ant to e ale to see particular

inormation rom durin$ 9:;; G:;; it $ives ou complete $ranular control to e

ale to do that.

A.P.: sn0t that eactl the idea ehind iaspora=

A.L.: 7es& thin' that /as the idea-

S.M.: 4oo$leI has some o those eatures too& ut not reall all...

A.L.: 4oo$leI& eah so the other thin$ that0s reall interestin$ aout this is that

4oo$leI has this concept& ri$ht& ecept that 4oo$le does o/n all our data& so

there0s that part. But the other part is that ou have to e oursel& ri$ht= So

ou0re Stephanie Murph& no matter /hat it is& no matter /hich #circle% ou0re

tal'in$ to& it0s 3ust that dierent circles see dierent aspects o ou /hereas

/ith this& ou can actuall maintain multiple identities& and use appliation-

speciic identities in certain scenarios /here the0re advanta$eous& so ou can

have one that has a real name associated /ith it that is our real name& and ithas our medical records in it& and so ou $o to the doctor& and instead o them


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havin$ our medical records or the rest o our lie& instead ou can sa #?@&

here are m medical records& and ou can have them or si das& and then ater

that the0re no lon$er reall relevant to ou.%

A.P.: So i ou are usin$ this as a tool& 0m $uessin$ that0s 'ind o missin$ the

point& ecause i ou0re usin$ one tool to mana$e all these identities& the arestill lin'ed phsicall& ecause the are on one machine to$ether.

A.L.: 6ell& no& actuall& /e0re $onna have !ohn on the sho/ prett Juic'. He0s

actuall local to me& he0s onl aout ort miles a/a rom /here record" 0m

sure he can $o into it in more detail than can& ut no& it0s reall ha& no/ 0ve

or$otten /hat ou actuall as'ed me5

A.P.: ou are usin$ all these identities rom one particular pro$ram& the are

actuall phsicall lin'ed to our computer at the same time& so the0re not

encrpted in separate-

A.L.: 1he are encrpted. verthin$0s encrpted& and /hat happens is that

essentiall ou0ve $ot all our data stored encrpted on our machine& and

there0s a ac'up that lives in the cloud& and that ac'up snchronises /ith

everthin$ else. So it0s li'e /hen ou /or' /ith 4oo$le do a lot o thin$s /ith

4oo$le rive& and /hen /or' /ith that& it stas in the cloud" it starts in the

cloud& uild it in the cloud& it stas in the cloud and then can access it& so

don0t actuall have a local cop most o the time& /hereas /ith this ou do have

a local cop. So an/a& that /as one o the interestin$ thin$s that came out o

this. Andreas& /hat /as our avourite thin$ at the conerence=

A.P.: thin' /hat /as most impressed /ith /as the amount o ne/ innovation

$oin$ on" so ri$ht eore the conerence& /as reall pumped& and said #/o/& 0m

so ecited& this is $oin$ to e 0m loo'in$ or/ard to this and this pro3ect% -

li'ed most& actuall& the Lamassu B1C& the Bitcoin A1M. thin' the have a real

practical solution to all these 'ind o prolems.

S.M.: sa/ those $us& the live near me in >e/ Hampshire.

A.P.: 7eah& eah& thin' the have a reall convincin$ stor to rin$ this to the

mar'et& and o course& on the technical side or me& this /as the onl tal'

attended it /as aout H /allets& hierarchical deterministic /allets. 1his DisE$oin$ to ma'e Bitcoin reall more usale once this /as implemented in the /allet

sot/are& so 0m loo'in$ or/ard to it.

S.M.: 6hat does that mean=

A.P.: H /allets asicall means that ou don0t have to ac'up our /allet ever

time ou send a transaction - ecause ri$ht no/& i ou are usin$ Bitcoin-Jt& the

/a it /or's is ou have a 'e pool& and that 'e pool $ets depleted i ou do a

lot o transactions so then our ac'up $ets invalid& ecause our ne/ 'es are

not in this ac'up anmore.

A.L.: So /hat ou0re sain$ is& i use G; let0s sa the uer is G; -


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A.P.: 7eah& eactl.

A.L.: ?@& so the uer is G;=

A.P.: 1he uer is 8;; deault.

A.L.: 1he uer is 8;;. ?@& so i the uer0s 8;;& ou0re sain$ that et/een thetime /hen ac'up m /allet& i then $enerate a hundred more addresses& then

ater that point& those are no lon$er actuall recoverale unless ou reresh the

ac'up.

A.P.: 7eah& and ou have to e a/are that ou are also $eneratin$ addresses

/hen sendin$ mone and /hen receivin$ mone& ecause ou have to $enerate

the chan$e addresses.

A.L.: So it0s transactions& almost=

A.P.: 7eah& it0s transactions.

A.L.: ?h& reall& so then there0s onl a uer o one hundred transactions

et/een ac'ups=

A.P.: 7eah& ac' and orth actuall& ecause ou0re $eneratin$ addresses /hen

ou0re receivin$ somethin$& i ou0re activel doin$ that& ut ou are

automaticall $eneratin$ ne/ addresses /hen ou are receivin$ chan$e.

A.L.: thin' need to reresh m ac'up5

A.P.: 7eah& asolutel& asolutel. So Bitcoin-Jt needs re$ular ac'ups& actuall&all the time. So H /allets& once that0s implemented& ou can ac'up 3ust one

seed and the /a it /or's is it $enerates ne/ pulic 'es and ne/ private 'es&

and it can actuall do anc tric's li'e creatin$ a ne/ seed rom the master seed&

that is& or one department o a compan& and each department can use its o/n

private seed and the C? o the compan can use the master seed to spend all

departments0 inances. Somethin$ li'e that& so ou can ima$ine that.

A.L.: 6hat does the H stand or=

A.P.: Hierarchical deterministic& so deterministic /allet means ou have a seed

and all the 'es are $enerated rom that" and hierarchical means that ou cancreate a tree structure& then $enerate a unch o private 'es and associated

pulic 'es. So the most common use 'es /ill e #0m a shop& /ant to accept

itcoin% - and then put m master pulic 'e into a pulic sot/are that0s

runnin$ some/here on the net& that doesn0t need to e ver secure& ecause

nood can access our unds& ut ou can $enerate a ne/ address or each

customer& or eample& /ithout an troule& on this remote machine /hich is not

ver secure and then ou0re receivin$ the mone and spendin$ them let0s sa&

rom our paper ac'up& or /hatever. Peter 6uille& the core developer& is /or'in$

on that& and a lot o pro$rams hard/are vendors also& and hopeull also the

Bitcoincard /ill pic' that up that0s not a promise& ut hope -


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A.L.: Li'e sa& /e0re tal'in$ ver late at ni$ht& so ta'e everthin$ at ace-value

here. So Stephanie& ou0re here /ith a ton o dierent pro3ects& and ou0ve een

$eneratin$ incredile content. 7ou said that ou did thirt intervie/s /ho do

ou thin' /as our avourite intervie/= (!.". groans) 'no/& it0s li'e as'in$ ou

to pic' our DavouriteE children /ith the people here. ?@& let0s 3ust do a top three.

S.M.: 7eah& ?@. 4avin tal'ed to 4avin& that /as reall cool. sort o had an

#in%& ecause 'ne/ him& ecause he /as riends ?@& so 0m involved /ith this

radio sho/ called Free 1al' Live& /e actuall roadcasted toni$ht& here rom the

conerence& and an and Mar'& the main hosts o Free 1al' Live& had met 4avin

ac' in ;8;& or somethin$ li'e that& to have lunch /ith him and tal' aout

itcoins and thin' he prett much convinced them to $et on oard& so 'inda

'ne/ him that /a& and he also lives in the to/n /here /ent to colle$e& so /e

tal'ed aout that stu a little it& ut /e also tal'ed aout a lot o other stu. He

said he0s mostl a liertarian& and that /as cool. al/as li'e it /hen $et people

to admit the0re liertarians& ecause am.

A.P.: ?n the Bitcoin conerence& ou 'ind o have to sa that. $ot in some heav

discussions& actuall& ecause /ould not sa 0m this lael or that lael& ut 0m

certainl not strai$ht-out liertarian.

A.L.: 6e actuall tal'ed aout this on Free 1al' Live /hen /as on or m rie

period o time-

S.M.: 0m not reerrin$ to& li'e& the Liertarian part& or an political part& or

anthin$ li'e that" 3ust someod /ho values human reedom& asicall.

A.L.: 7eah& the laels do $et conusin$.

A.P.: thin' laels are dan$erous. Laels put ou into corners& and limit ou in

our ima$ination.

S.M.: But /hat do ou call oursel& to succinctl descrie our vie/s=

A.L.: $o /ith sociall conservative & and (laughter from !.". and A.P.)0m sorr&

$o /ith iscall conservative and sociall lieral.

S.M.: (laughing)1he complete opposite Do /hat descries ouE5

A.L.: 7eah& eah& it0s ver late.

A.P.: $o /ith >oam Choms'.

A.L.: >oam Choms'& ?@& sure& 0ll u that. (#o !.".) So that /as numer one or

ou& do ou have an others=

S.M.: 7eah& ?@& let me thin' /ho else intervie/ed oh m $od...

A.L.: Puttin$ ou on the spot& here...

S.M.: Some o m intervie/s /ere Juite short - /ould0ve li'ed more time to tal'to the people& ut that0s ine& $uess $ot some names. tal'ed to Mi'e Hearn


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people /ho had 3ust surrounded him& moed him& and it lasted or& li'e& a hal

hour. 1here /ere people /ith cameras& holdin$ DthemE up" it /as li'e it /as a

celerit& and it0s li'e& #/o/& this is such a contrar thin$.% 6e0re in this real-

/orld place& ut it0s so notthe real /orld& /e0ve ta'en it over and it0s 3ust people

li'e us.

A.P.: 2eerrin$ to that sel-selection ou previousl mentioned& thin' that0s a

ver hard path to actuall ollo/" ou have to 'no/ a lot aout a numer o

topics to e reall enthusiastic aout Bitcoin& and most people $ive up hal/a

and sa #/ell& that0s DaE cra


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A.L.: So& /hile /as here& /e sa/ at least three documentaries ein$ shot

dierent $roups. don0t 'no/ i anone else has seen it& ut there0s a

documentar aout competitive Scrale plaers called 6ord 6ars that came out

a couple ears a$o& has anod seen this= >o=

S.M.: am not nerd enou$h or that& ut it sounds a/esome.

A.L.: 6e /ent throu$h a period o time& m /ie and /ho is our en$ineer -

S.M.: She0s noddin$5

A.L.: - /here /e /ere /atchin$ a lot o documentaries& ecause /atchin$

anthin$ else /as a little it stupid& it seemed at the time a$ain& it0s one o

those thin$s /here the su3ect almost doesn0t matter. 6hat matters is that the

people have the passion& and the have the appreciation o it& and ou $et

enou$h o those people to$ether& then ou can do reall insane thin$s. And

a$ain& tin$ it ac' to Bitcoin rin$ this up ecause the $u /ho made thatdocumentar is no/ ma'in$ a documentar tal'in$ aout& essentiall& the an'

o international settlement and all o the various /as that it is inluencin$ -

thin' he said the title is #6ho 6ants 1o Be A 1rillionaire%& or somethin$ li'e that

and it0s aout Bitcoin& and the Bitcoin is the continuit that ties it all to$ether

ou 'no/& ties to$ether ho/ these decisions are made on a $loal scale. 1hat

/as one o them& there /ere a couple o others this one called somethin$ aout

the #revolution%& those $us /ere around a lot 21 /as here& etensivel doin$

intervie/s-

S.M.: 7eah& the $ot Andreas Antonopolous on camera and he said he didn0t

pimp the podcast5

A.L.: ?h& he didn0t pimp the podcast5 6ell& that0s ?@& the $ot me on& and all did

/as pimp the podcast5

S.M.: A/esome& ?@& $ood& 0m $lad5 So there0s a lot o 1.

A.L.: 1here0s a lot o 1.

A.P.: And the rise and rise o Bitcoin that /ill e interestin$ too. So there are

4erman $us doin$ a $reat Bitcoin documentar as /ell. 1he are $oin$ across

thin' the couldn0t attend the conerence ecause o their lac'in$ donations& somae i ou0re here& ou should $et to theitcoindocumentar.or$ the are

$reat $us& ou should support them.

A.L.: 7es& /hat /as the 2L a$ain=

A.P.: thin' it /as theitcoindocumentar.or$.

A.L.: theitcoindocumentar.or$. ?@& $reat& /e0ll have to chec' that out. id ou

$us /atch the 'enote=

S.M.: >o.

A.P.: >o.


10/21

S.M.: /as at the ooth that /as /or'in$ at /ith these non-proit or$anisations&

and it /as pac'ed durin$ the /hole 'enote& couldn0t $et a/a.

A.L.: So& /atched the 'enote& and it /as painul and understand /h it too'

me a /hile to $et it understand /h the oundation chose to eature the

6in'levoss t/ins as the 'enote spea'ers& even thou$h the didn0t deliver a ver$ood speech an real standard& ut it0s ecause the rin$ to the mainstream

press almost a sense o le$itimac& ecause or some reason& havin$ a lot o

mone& re$ardless o ho/ ou $ot that mone& is a source o ein$ #ri$ht% in our

particular culture. don0t a$ree /ith that& and thin' that& rom the perspective o

it ein$ a 'enote speech& it /as a ver poor choice& ut rom an optics

perspective loo'in$ at it throu$h the lens o the mainstream media once ou

start readin$ the covera$e& read a stor on C->1 and some/here else too and

the Juoted mae t/o sentences rom the tal'& ut it /as all aout the act that

these people /ere investin$ mone into it.

>o/& that ein$ said& the /a the0re investin$ mone into it is one o the ver

e/ /as that le$itimatel consider hoardin$ ecause their /hole strate$ /as

to u itcoins& stic' them onto lash drives& and put them into distriuted an's0

sae deposits around the countr" /hich is $reat and all& ut it ma'es it

impossile or ou to ever spend it& so there0s not even reall the chance o that

happenin$& and thin' that that0s a little it dum.

S.M.: 6ell& on the other hand& it drives the price o itcoins up -

A.P.: consider that le$itimate& ecause ri$ht no/ sure& ou can u our pi


11/21

S.M.: thin' people reall $ripe aout that. But ultimatel& i it0s someod

itcoins& /hatever the /anna do /ith them" 0m not here to tell them /hat to do.

A.L.: 6ell& the had to u the itcoins rom someod& so $uess /hatever their

investment meant actuall /ent ac' into someod0s poc'ets /ho /as holdin$

itcoins eore.

S.M: 7eah& and someod had to a$ree to sell them& so the0ve named their price

and the $ot it that /as a voluntar transaction& so 0m not aout to $et in the

middle o that -

A.L.: Fair enou$h.

S.M.: ?ne thin$ heard aout their speech /as that the said #it0s time to come

to the eds and tr to $et them to re$ulate Bitcoin%.

A.L.: 6ell& that /as a i$ thin$ here& there /ere a lot o people representin$ the

it0s not reall liertarian& it0s almost li'e anarcho-capitalist vie/point o

re$ulation& /hich is #$et the hell out%.

S.M.: 7eah& that0s me. a$ree.

A.L.: And then there0s the other camp& that0s li'e #this is $onna happen one /a

or another& /ith or /ithout us& so it0s etter i /e0re in a conversation than not%.

But Stephanie& 0m curious DaoutE /hat ou thin' to a certain etent& isn0t

participatin$ in the sstem le$itimisin$= Sain$ that #es& re$ulators& ou have

authorit over this% - is that a positive thin$& or is that a ne$ative thin$& or do ou

thin' that it0s -

S.M.: ?h& ne$ative - the onl thin$ the could possil do to help Bitcoin is to $et

out o it& and can 'inda understand& or relate& to these companies /ho DhaveE

invested a lot into Bitcoin start-up usinesses& or /hatever& and the0re

uncertain& and the0re araid& ecause /hat the0re araid o is that there0s $onna

e some 'ind o ne/ re$ulation that comes do/n that0s reall $onna hurt their

usiness& that the0re $onna have no sa over and that suc's /hen ou0ve

invested a lot o time into a start-up. So $et /h the /ant it to happen& and

the /ant to have a sa in it& and the /ant some clarit aout /hat0s $onna e

reJuired o them& ecause the see it as inevitale& ut a$ain& thin' the0re

missin$ the point that the est thin$ that the eds could do is step out o the /a.

And ho/ are the actuall $oin$ to even re$ulate Bitcoin unctionall= t0s one o

those thin$s that 3ust lends itsel to decentrali


12/21

and sas #?@& /ell& i it0s le$al& then sure& /e0re $onna provide this service%& and

ran'l oselete Bitnstant& ecause Bitnstant or BitPa or reall an o these

thin$s& the0re reall all /or'around companies ased on the idea that the le$ac

sstem /on0t interace /ith us& so thereore /e0re $onna create this sstem

/here ou 3ump throu$h all these hoops -

S.M.: 6ell& it /ould enrich the entrenched interest& and the i$ usinesses& and it

/ould empoverish the Bitcoin startups and the small $us& and a$ain& thin'

these Bitcoin startups /ho are as'in$ or re$ulation are 'inda missin$ the point

that the came aout and the sprun$ up in an environment that /as totall ree&

and the less ree it $ets& the more diicult it0s $oin$ to e or ne/ Bitcoin startups

to come out& and or ran'l technolo$ to push or/ard& and ne/

technolo$ies to come out.

A.P.: a$ree& eah& and thin' that it0s a ver valuale thin$ to have Bitcoin as a

standalone currenc that0s not even reco$nised as a currenc& so it0s 3ust DthatE

/e are sendin$ these unn internet to'ens& and on top o that ou can do all

'inds o innovative ne/ services& and thin' that0s reall $oin$ to provide a value

or humanit. t0s unn to sa it li'e that.

S.M.: o ou /anna tal' aout other themes at the conerence& anthin$ li'e

that=

A.L.: 7eah& did ou identi an=

S.M.: 7eah& $uess one thin$ that came out to me /as it0s een a /hile& at least

in the S& since there0s een a period o real economic prosperit and

deinitel $ot this sense o& almost reminiscent o the dot com era& and in act

Bitcoin has een compared this /ee'end to the internet in 899" /e0re at the

leedin$ ed$e o technolo$& /e0re the irst adopters& and /e0re $onna all ma'e

an' out o this& or ecome reall successul& or e reall amous& or /hatever

and people /ere partin$ alreadyecause o that& and asicall epectin$ this to

happen. So /hen see that& share in that 3uilation& totall& and thin' this is

hu$e it0s a hu$e deal& oviousl. 0m also a little cautious& ecause 'no/ not all

o these itcoin startups are $onna succeed some startups do ail -

A.L.: !omestartups do ail& haha. Most startups do ail.

S.M.: Most startups do ail& 9;5

A.P.: A G; chance o echan$es ailin$.

A.L.: G;= >o/ that0s a a'e numer. 1he cited that numer& it /as #+ o

echan$es ail and ta'e mone /ith them%& ut there0s a + mar$in o error.

S.M.: So it could e an/here rom ;-K;=

A.L.: actl& ;-K;5

A.P.: have some practical eperience /ith that. A lot o m mone $ot lo/na/a.


13/21

A.L.: ?h& that0s too ad& /here /ere ou in=

A.P.: ?h& /ell& 'ind o& all o them= thin' it0s m 3o to 'no/ the itcoin space&

tr all the thin$s. So $ot shut do/n all the thin$s& o course. >ot all the

mone& o course. 1he most recent one /as Bitcoin.com that /as run a

4erman $u& ut thin' there is a decent chance that some da mi$ht $et someo m iat mone that /as tied up ac'.

S.M.: hope so.

A.P.: 7eah& hope so too5

S.M.: 1here0s a lot o ris' in this space& and /hen ou see the i$ successes and

ou see the i$ ooms& it0s eas to or$et aout the ris' that0s there& and to 'eep

a perspective" it0s eas to $et super-ecited and sa #oh eah& /e0re $uaranteed

to succeed%& ut that0s not the realit a lot can happen and that0s ?@& ecause

ultimatel /e0re in a process o $ro/th" /e0re in a process o i$urin$ out /hatthe mar'et actuall /ants& in terms o Bitcoin& and /hat 'inds o ne/

technolo$ies can e rou$ht to the ore and that0s ?@& that0s all the process o

$ro/th. 1here0s a little it o creative destruction in there and it0s unortunate

/hen that happens not-creativel& ecause o re$ulators& and that0s /hat /e0ve

seen a lot o the time. But there0s also hac'ers& there0s thets" people have to

learn thin$s aout securit /ith itcoins the hard /a& and that does happen& too.

1hat0s a le$itimate thin$. So don0t 'no/& $uess it0s $reat to have parties /here

there are ree drin's" love that to happen& it0s $reat to see people /al'in$

around in suits ou 'no/& oun$& attractive $us& and there0s a loto $us here

ut /e do have to 'eep thin$s in perspective a little it& too& ecause /e don0t/ant to e in a ule and not 'no/ it& and nood has an clue.

A.P.: thin' /e0re not in a ule thin' the potential is hu$e& /e0re $oin$ to

see a lot more.

A.L.: Are /e tal'in$ aout a price ule& or are /e talin$ aout a realit ule=

S.M.: 0m 'inda tal'in$ aout oth& mean& 0cause the price relects the realit

and the attitude aout Bitcoin to a certain etent-

A.L.: >ot here& it doesn0t didn0t hear one person tal'in$ aout the price& this

entire conerence. id ou=

S.M.: >o& not reall& actuall& ecept at the Lamassu machine-

A.L.: ?h& ri$ht& ri$ht& /here the0re doin$ echan$es. 7eah& o course& ut outside

o that& it /asn0t li'e people /ere $oin$ around& $oin$ #oh man& can ou elieve

it0s up to N8G& this is so antastic& /e0re all $onna e rich5% - mean no& nood

reall cares aout that& /e0re all tal'in$ aout the companies that are ein$ uilt

around it to ma'e it etter& and to ma'e it easier& and to ma'e it cleaner.

S.M.: 6ell& $uess /hat /as reerrin$ to /hen said #ule% /as 3ust the

amount o venture capital mone that0s lo/in$ into Bitcoin startups ri$ht no/


14/21

some o that is not $onna succeed& some o those companies are $onna $o ust

or /hatever reason& ri$ht=

A.L.: But a$ain& to that point& the /hole venture model /hen it comes to this-

S.M.: -eah& it uilds in ris'-

A.L.: -/ell eah& it uilds in a hugeamount o ailure" the standard model or this

tpe o compan is: ou /ould ma'e siteen investments& iteen o them are

supposed to ail& and the one that succeeds is the one that ma'es ou crae/ 7or'Stoc' chan$e& and thin' /e are /a& /a& ar apart rom havin$ that in the

Bitcoin space& so there is no mass appeal spi'e /hen everone0s thro/in$ mone

at the Bitcoin stoc's.

A.L.: And the other thin$& o course& that0s dierent rom the dot com era is that

the moneti


15/21

A.L.: ?@& ut that0s m point& that that0s dierent. 7ou can speculate on it ou

couldn0t speculate on the internet companies until the /ere on the stoc'

echan$e& ut ecause Bitcoin is mone& it0s loatin$ value& relativel spea'in$.

A.P. And it0s an 1F on the /hole Bitcoin space.

A.L.: 7eah& that0s eactl ri$ht. 1hat& o course& is the other thin$& is that i ou0re

loo'in$ at this rom a ris' perspective& solel& uin$ itcoin is such a saer

investment& ecause i ou0re investin$ in companies& and Bitcoin ails& all the

Bitcoin companies ail" ut i ou0re investin$ in Bitcoin& it doesn0t matter i the

Bitcoin companies ail& it 3ust matters i there0s adoption overall& and ou still

have that eponential multiplier eect that 'ic's in. A$ain& it0s 3ust one o those

thin$s /here ecause o /hat is is and ho/ it operates& it rea's a lot o the rules

ecause the monetiearl ever sin$le person that tal'ed

to and reall& to/ards the end o it& realised that /as missin$ out not


16/21

introducin$ msel to ever sin$le person that sa/ ecause everod has a

pro3ect& even the people /ho /ere here as attendees /ere unctionall not

attendees& the should0ve een spea'ers.

A.P.: Asolutel& eah. So people came to our ooth" almost everone could ma'e

a speech o their o/n aout /hat the are doin$ in the Bitcoin space& and thin'there /ere onl one or t/o people /ho 3ust said #/ell& 0m interested in the /hole

thin$%& ut a hundred people-

S.M.: thin' that0s it& it attracts curious& active-minded people& and the all

then& as a result& once the understand enou$h /ant to have their o/n pro3ects&

and the do& ecause nothin$0s stoppin$ them& ecause it0s so eas to 3ust start

one o our o/n.

A.L.: And there0s so much to do5 7ou can loo' at this rom so man dierent

an$les& and everod loo's at it and sees somethin$ a little it dierent&

ecause comin$ rom our o/n contet& ou0re ale to 3ust appl it to /hateverthe hec' ou0re alread doin$ and see the /as it ma'es it easier& or etter& or

more eicient" it 3ust chan$es thin$s& and it0s reall po/erul.

S.M.: Another thin$ this is $onna e 'ind o meta& ecause /e0re doin$ a

podcast aout the podcast& ut 3ust to toot our o/n horn a little it /as

stunned at the numer o people - /e0ve onl een podcastin$ or a month&

Adam -

A.L.: 7eah& 3ust a month.

S.M.: -and /as stunned at the numer o people /ho a) had heard o our sho/&) had listened to our sho/& c) reco$nised me /ithout me 'no/in$ /ho the

/ere5 id ou have the same eperience=

A.L.: 7eah& did.

A.P.: thin' our podcast /as /a overdue. ?viousl& ecause o m accent&

/on0t do an n$lish podcast all the time. 6e /ere as'ed multiple times& #s/itch

to n$lish5 7ou /ill $et such an audience5 1here is no n$lish podcast& /hat0s

$oin$ on=% - and ou /ere 3ust ri$ht or the time.

A.L.: 1han' ou or sain$ that& Andreas. ?ne o the most un eperiences that had here /as ein$ ale to meet all these people /ho& 0ve een readin$ their

stu or ears& and have no idea /hat the loo' li'e otentimes didn0t 'no/

their real name ut 1/itter /as such a tool or i$urin$ out /ho people /ere&

coordinatin$ /ith that& and then schedulin$ the meetup. $ot to meet one o m

personal heroes& !ere Paul& /ho $oes Snea' online he0s the $u /ho did a

tal' at CCC ac' in ;8;& thin' it /as-

S.M.: 6hat0s CCC=

A.L.: CCC is the Chaos Communication Con$ress.

S.M.: t0s C.


17/21

A.L.: An/as& it0s a 4erman earl seminar that0s asicall on inormation

securit and stu li'e that. t0s 'inda $ee'& it0s actuall super reall-technical

$ee'& and 0m not that technical& as ar as ein$ ale to loo' at code and sa

#?@& /ell see /hat that does%& ut li'e to hear people /ho 'no/ /hat it does

tal' aout it& ecause that helps me e ale to understand it don0t understand

eactl ho/ it /or's& ut it0s li'e a dollar" ou don0t need to understand ho/ adollar /or's in order to 'no/ that it0s useul& in order to 'no/ its purpose. So that

side o it /as reall ecitin$& $ettin$ to tal' to these people and then on the

other side o it& havin$ people come up to me and sa #0m here ecause o ou&

came to this sho/ ecause o our sho/ and the ideas that it spar'ed in m

head% - ecause that0s li'e m dream. M dream is to help people have ideas

aout this& ecause have so man ideas aout this& and 'no/ that 0m not the

onl one& and that0s ver ecitin$ to me.ist.

So& other people /ho /e met... actuall& 0m not even $onna tr to list them&

there0s too man to list.

S.M.: 7eah& there are too man too list.

A.L.: 1oo man& don0t /anna leave anod o.

S.M.: So man o them /ere reall amae/ 7or'& too& 0m indin$ that /anna $o to that& so /e can hit

that to$ether. 1hat0ll e un.

S.M.: Cool.

A.A.: From 8stto +rd>ovemer& there /ill e the unsstem.net& thin' the ocus

/ill e more political aspects o Bitcoin& and anarchism& + printin$& and-

A.L.: 6ell& the + printin$ 0m interested in& ut it0s the technolo$& thin'& andthe pro3ects that are ased around DBitcoinE the politics& honestl& eel li'e the


18/21

more /e ocus on that& the less useul it is ecause it dra/s such ne$ative

attention to the /hole thin$.

A.A.: 7eah& that0s true. /ould li'e more usiness-oriented stu& ut /ho 'no/s&

it0s $oin$ to e a lon$ time until >ovemer& /e0ll see ho/ that develops.

A.L.: 6ell& a$ain& there are other sho/s& there are other conerences that are

$onna e startin$ up eore that& so thin' there0s at least one or t/o eore

ienna. So the Bitcoin conerence ecosstem& this /as reall a proo o concept

that no/ is the time& and the people are here& and the collaorations are here

m $od& the collaorations. $ave a tal' on content monetis there& ri$ht=

A.L.: 1he do use F2>s no/& ut the0re loo'in$ to osolete themselves a$ain&

can0t $et into too man details& ut there0s a lot o movement in this space ri$ht

no/& and thin' /e0re seein$ the end o these proprietar tippin$ services& or

these proprietar don0t /anna name names& ut the realit is& platorms that

tr to intercept the value tr to sa #he& come and have a /allet on our

platorm% - thin' those are $oin$ the /a o the dinosaurs& ecause the0re 3ust

totall unnecessar.

A.P.: 6ell& Flattr in particular& thin' that has a use in Bitcoin. 6hen /e startedout tal'in$ aout Bitcoin& a lot o people said #uild a Bitcoin Flattr replacement%&


19/21

ecause it0s actuall ver re/ardin$ or podcasters to have monthl donations in

a re$ular /a& and or the users it0s li'e the are allocatin$ their cultural ud$et&

so the sa #?@& /ant the ied amount%& and then the are spreadin$ this

amount each month& so the don0t have to ta'e care o all the divisions and

microtransactions and so on. So the 3ust have to have such (unintelligible),some

o them aare removed and some o them are (unintelligible). thin' that0s auseul service& even /ith Bitcoin& ecause ou don0t /ant to send out li'e a

hundred dierent donations to all the tin thin$s ou0re listenin$ and all loc's

ou0re readin$.

S.M.: 7eah& /as $onna sa& is it too earl to start a travel und= the listeners

en3oed our covera$e o this conerence& the could send us to other

conerences& somethin$ li'e that.

A.L.: thin' that0s deinitel somethin$ /e should e tal'in$ aout. But the $ood

ne/s is that in addition to havin$ listener support& it loo's li'e /e0re $onna e

ale to have sponor support& ecause a$ain& that /as the other thin$ here this

is the start o somethin$ i$& and it0s the start o somethin$ i$ or Bitcoin& ut

/e0re ridin$ the /ave here. n the press room& one o the other outits that /as

there is called B1C!ournal. 1he don0t eist et& the start eistin$ net /ee'. So

there0s competition movin$ into the space& ut at the same time& 3ust ecause /e

have a month0s headstart& it0s such an advanta$e. t0s crae/ Hampshire time& so-

S.M.: 0m on 6est Coast 1ime even /hen 0m on the east coast. sta up late.

A.L.: Have ou ad3usted et Andreas=

A.P.: thin' /ill 3ust s'ip a e/ ni$hts& mae& that /ill e ine.


20/21

A.L.: 6ell& $reat& this /as the most un 0ve had in a lot o ears. And 0ve covered

a lot o conerences eore" /e0re doin$ this at the San !ose Convention Centre.

covered 4C& 4ame evelopers0 Convention here or a numer o ears& and

there /ere eponentiall less people here& and it /as eponentiall more

interestin$ than 0ve ever seen it eore.

So that0s aout it or this episode o Let0s 1al' Bitcoin.

S.M.: 7our poor voice& Adam& it sounds li'e ra$& so tired5

A.L.: have een tal'in$ non-stop or das. t0s crao/ ou0ve spoiled it. 7eah& asolutel a$ree. And ou should come to our

ooth& Mcelium.

!.: 7ou have to have ne/ users /ho don0t 'no/ that secret& so that there /ill ean audience or the spea'ers& ut the real secret is #don0t $o to the tal's%. 1al' to

people. Meet people.

A.L.: cau$ht our panel& Stephanie& cau$ht !ohn Li$ht0s tal'& cau$ht the alt

coin tal' or the alt coin panel& /hich /as prett interestin$" it had some reall

interestin$ characters on it. And then $ave m tal' on content moneti


21/21

male to adamOletstal'itcoin.com. Content or this episode /as provided

Stephanie Murph& Andreas Petersson& and listener !ustice. Music or this episode

/as provided !ared 2uens. For lin's to his /or'& visit

letstal'itcoin.commusic. 6e0ve $ot lots o content comin$ up& ut can0t or the

lie o me tell ou /hat0ll e out net so 0ve decided to stop ma'in$ $uesses here

until /e $et the editorial calendar up and unctional. 1han's so much or oursupport. ou0d li'e to donate to the sho/& please visit ///.letstal'itcoin.com.

See ou net time.

(%nstrumental continues for t$o minutes till end.)
mailto:[email protected]://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/mailto:[email protected]://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/

Documents

Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)