lesn. · Web viewFrary details that a more challenging test is a fairer test when the spread of grades is greater. He argues that it is a waste of effort, time and resources to pose

NOTE: Dr. Olson’s comments are in RED.

Forum 7: How difficult should a test be?

Frary, in his article, argues that a test, to be useful, should be at least moderately difficult. Restate his argument, briefly, in your own words. Then take a position with respect to classroom assessments. Does his argument apply? If your answer is yes, explain why. If your answer is no, then does any of his argument apply? Explain your position.

Reply by Kathy Courtemanche on February 18, 2010 at 7:43pm

Basically, Frary (1995) asserts that easy questions should be eliminated from tests because almost everyone will get those questions correct anyway. He believes that moderately difficult tests will emphasize the differences BETWEEN students which is useful for ranking them.

Frary (1995) stated he was not discussing tests for measuring the degree of achievement as in criterion-referenced tests, but then went on to say, "What we are concerned about are tests covering fairly diverse topics... Almost any multiple-choice midterm or final examination would be in this category..." Why wouldn't a midterm or final be criterion-referenced? He's confusing me.

I am thankful he is not my professor. I believe his method would be inappropriate and detrimental for classroom assessments. My classroom assessments are to gain criterion-referenced data regarding a student's mastery of the material. I'm not interested in ranking students or elucidating their differences. My goal as an educator is to have every student learn the material we have covered, and be able to demonstrate their mastery. Only presenting the most difficult questions would cause students to become discouraged and possibly give up.

Why wouldn’t you be interested in differentiating among students’ levels of performance in your classes? Isn’t it important to know who has “just” mastered the course competencies and who has achieved beyond what is minimally acceptable? Or who just missed “mastering” the content and who really missed mastering the content? As I mentioned in class, scores kids get on tests do not need to be the grades they get on those tests. In other words, if a kid gets a 75 on a test that 75 could be converted to an “A,” a “B,” a “C,” and so on. Do you really believe that scores on tests truly reflect kid’s level of achievement? After all, the difficulty of a test is under your control. You can make a test as easy or as difficult as you want. If two kids, from two different classrooms with different teachers, both attain a “B” on, say, an English test, does that mean they both attained the same level of achievement?

Reply by Charity Nightingale Horton on February 19, 2010 at 8:21pmI agree Kathy.....I think his views are very inappropriate as well!

Reply by Sharon Creasy on February 21, 2010 at 5:14pm

If the passing mark is moved to the middle, why would this be so bad? It aligns more accurately with grading of EOG's. I think this dilemma is one of the reasons some teachers use total points. I agree that a assessment can begin with a few simpler warm up questions but I do think a test can be rigorous without being impossible. I always liked the bonus question on a test - if you knew it, great - if not - oh well.

I hope to convince you, later, that bonus questions are not appropriate when assessing achievement of learning targets. Teachers do this because they want kids who have not mastered the LTs to pass.

Reply by Brenda Little on February 21, 2010 at 8:17pm

Kathy: I think it goes back to why your are assessing. Sometimes we may need ranking data and other times we are assessing for mastery. I think the students need to understand what is being assessed and often teachers are not good at explaining the goals of each assessment.

Why can’t a test of score of, say 75, represent a minimal level of mastery? And another score of, say, 85 represent achievement well above mastery.

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Frary (1995) makes a case for test difficulty....specifically test items being moderately difficult. He takes you inside the box of assessment only to give you a different (or new) perspective on developing tests in which scores are determined by adding up points for each right answer (i.e.; multiple-choice, short-answer, & problem-solving tests). Frary poses a great question: why develop tests items that you know 90% of the examinees will answer correctly? What real information will you gain about each student’s ability to achieve the curricula aims that have been identified for this unit of study using this method?

Frary goes on to say that to get to the point of a more accurate class rankings, teachers must develop tests with more difficult questions. The result of developing more difficult tests will result in a wider spread of scores which in turn reflects a fairer test. Frary states that the most desirable tests have a few easy questions to encourage students and some really hard questions to help students realize their own capabilities and limitations.

I think its how tests are presented by teachers and perceived by learners – a test is an instrument that shows the teacher what I don’t know. Educators need to move away from this negative connotation. We need to present tests as a teaching strategy that documents where students are on the learning continuum. Once this is established, teachers will know what material needs to be covered in order to develop the full scope of the curricula aim. By developing tests that are challenging (not intimidating); the teacher will gain more knowledge about what the student understands and where additional learning needs to occur. Teachers must keep in mind, however, that test difficulty does not equate to tests that use tricky words, unfair choices, and/or grading boundaries. Tests are not the enemy of learning…unfair interpretations of the tests set the true boundaries.

Brenda, I really like your response. You have read Frary correctly. As you kind of point out, the problem is with teachers not understanding test difficulty. (See my responses to Kathy, above.)

Reply by Charity Nightingale Horton on February 19, 2010 at 8:23pm

I like the "enemy of learning" phrase! It is unfortunate that tests could be, or are, viewed like this.


I agree with you Brenda about the test "perspective". I think it extends to all assessments. If assessments were used more reflectively in teaching instead of pass out the grade and move on, the perspective might change. Really talking about the positive and negative outcomes would empower the assessment instead of its only legacy being the "grade result". We all know that we learn the most from our mistakes but only when we take the time to look at what went wrong and how we can change it. This is the missing step in perceiving assessments as learning opportunities.

Reply by Tammy Essic on February 21, 2010 at 9:19pm

Sharon, you are so right about learning the most from our mistakes. Unfortunately, so many teachers (and I've been guilty before!) show the students their score without ever taking the time to discuss the mistakes.

As some of the authors of the articles you have read for this class have pointed out, giving constructive feedback following assessments is of critical importance. How else are kids to learn from their mistakes?

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Frary (1995) posits that passing levels at the 70% mark are much too high for high school or college multiple-choice assessments covering broad, detailed content. A teacher has control over

a test’s level of difficulty so how can it accurately reflect the student’s comprehensive knowledge of the content being assessed. An appropriate score demonstrating a broad understanding should be in the 50% to 60% range. Frary details that a more challenging test is a fairer test when the spread of grades is greater. He argues that it is a waste of effort, time and resources to pose questions that can be answered correctly 90% of the time other than a couple of moral boosting items.

My college age daughter has had to adjust to a very different passage rate in her undergraduate science classes – organic chemistry for instance. She has had tests where the average grade among 200 students is a 47. A positive outcome of this grading structure is that she has become more focused on doing her personal best and less focused on a number that relates to an alpha outcome. I am not saying that she does not care about her grades - it is just that never knowing what the high grade will be means just doing your best.

I’m not so sure that not knowing your grade is the best approach. In my opinion it would be better to provide students with some guidelines like: 51-60 = C, 61-75 = B, >75 = A. The guidelines, of course would depend upon the test difficulty. Also, it is always possible to

Yes, Frary’s argument applies to the classroom. Time is precious for all of us including students. Spending time on questions that are not assessing understanding or learning by the student is wasteful and a failure to achieve rigor. Next, moving the classroom assessment range closer to standardized testing ranges might create some correlation and understanding by stakeholders of difficulty and below sixty cut scores. Judging question correct response percentage in creating challenging tests would be an ongoing task for teachers but with the use of multiple-choice software and tools, doable.

Reply by Sara Gilliam Crater on February 20, 2010 at 2:44pm

Yes your daughter's personal best should be what she is worried about but if the average is 47, how many does that leave passing the course?

How do we know a pass isn’t 30%? In which case Sharon’s daughter is doing very well, indeed!


The performance of the class determines each grading range. It is such content heavy material they cannot know it all as well as the assessments are intended to be challenging.

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Reply by sharon anderson jones on February 19, 2010 at 12:24am

Most teachers say a grade of 70% or better is a passing grade. This grade is based on making a list of course objectives and writing test questions to formulate a test. Teacher made tests can be unreliable and does not guarantee a test will not be too hard or too easy to be valid.

Teacher tests get better with experience making test items. As tests improve the criteria improves and the percentage of passing scores can drop from 70% to 60% for most students. Scores are derived by adding up points for right answers. A good strategy is to add a few easy questions at the beginning to encourage student achievement.

Again, the difficult of a test is under teacher control. Also, most teachers (and most professors) write terrible test items. Writing items to assess high level skill is very difficult. Also, remember the influence of CIV.

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Reply by Cynthia Barber on February 19, 2010 at 5:08pm

In his article Frary asks the question why give students tests filled with easy questions. He asserts that everyone will get them correct and the assessment will therefore not provide useful information about students. Frary advocates that when devising an assessment the teacher should aim to include more moderate to difficult items in order to gain more useful information. His definition of useful information seemingly only includes the development of class rankings, determining the differences between students level of knowledge as displayed on an assessment.

When I give an assessment I am not concerned with ranking my students, especially in elementary school. I am more concerned with whether or not the students have learned the material which I have been required to teach. In developing assessments my goal is to make them fair. I include some easier questions not because I want to give an easy test, but because I want my students to feel some sense of confidence when taking the test. I have seen it over and over again. If a student encounters several difficult items at the beginning of the test, they can become discouraged and give up on the rest of the test. I am not advocating that you lump all “easy” questions at the beginning either, but there must be some balance when writing the tests.

I believe we must be honest with our students and not give them a false impression that a test is going to be easy. We have to educate them in ways to handle difficult test questions by teaching them how to take a test, so they will not be filled with anxiety at the mere mention of the word.


Being fair is the key!

Reply by Kristi Gaddis on February 21, 2010 at 11:20am

Cynthia,

I agree with your statement that tests should be balanced. I think all levels of difficulty should be present. You want to assess what the student knows without creating a sense of dread and anxiety. I think formative assessments can be short and have all levels of difficulty present. I agree!


Cynthia: I agree with the fact that we must be honest with the students. I don't think teachers spend enough time talking about tests and how the outcomes of the test will be used....which leads to anxiety for the students. They never truly understand the purpose of the assessment.

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Reply by Tammy Essic on February 19, 2010 at 5:17pm

In his article, Frary (1995) suggests that traditional grading practices that typically maintain a 70% pass rate are arbitrary and not as effective for ranking students as tests that are more difficult. According to Frary, an average score range of 50% to 60% is optimal for effective testing because more ranking information can be gained. Frary also suggests that test items that can be answered correctly by more than 90% of students should be omitted in most cases because these questions are wasteful and provide little information that is useful.

I would not fully apply his argument to classroom assessments. I agree that studens should be challenged and teachers should have high expectations for students, both during instruction and assessment; however, a classroom teacher should be less concerned with ranking his/her students and more concerned with assessing the depth of understanding that each individual student has. Assessing that depth of understanding should include a range of question types and level of difficulties. An additional concern with applying his argument is the negative impact it would have on most students over time. If students are only able to answer half of the questions correctly on a regular basis, motivation will decrease and doubt in abilities will increase.

I think that Frary’s comment about “ranking” students was just a poor choice of words. He is not concerned with ranking students for the purpose of assigning grades. He wants teachers to be able to differentiate among students’ levels of achievement. Test difficulties and grading practices are separate concerns. (See several of my comments given earlier.) There is no reason why difficult tests (i.e., tests with a lot of ceiling) would not work well in the classroom. In some cases, difficult tests might give some of the (much) higher performing kids a chance to shine.


I agree....students need to feel successful some of the time in order to gain self-esteem and motivation for the next time!


I also agree. I believe Frary's ideas do not work well for classroom assessment.

And we think we have a high drop out rate now!

Well, I suppose it would be difficult for students (and parents) to feel comfortable with a test grade of, say, 40, even if it was pointed out that the test was very difficult. This would take educating students and their parents. It might help if test scores were converted to letter grades (something we’ll talk about later in the course.)


Yes, I can see how this could increase drop out rates as well!


Maybe I am wrong, but I did not interpret Frary's use of "ranking" as ranking the students in an order but of just identifying where they are in their "level of achievement" on the scale of correctness.

Sharon, you got it exactly right. See my comment to Tammy Essic, earlier.

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Frary’s Stance:

Basically, Frary (1995) does not support traditional grading practices which involve accepting test scores of 70% as “passable” levels of achievement. He figures that maximum testing effectiveness occurs when the average score is in the 50%-60% range, and further supports his belief with some fancy mathematical magic.

This article confused me. Or perhaps FRARY is confusing! Is he suggesting it is beneficial to change the grading scale so that 50% and 60% are passing grade, or is he suggesting that teachers make tests harder so that students are achieving within a 50-60% range for his presumed optimal learning range?

Again, as I indicated several times above, grading is a separate issue. What if a test was constructed such that 50% or 60% percent of the items covered all the content that is sufficient to indicate a minimally passable score; and additional items were included to capture the performances of kids who went well beyond what was minimally acceptable?

I absolutely agree that classroom instruction needs to challenge students and high expectations are maintained by teachers and understood by students. However, I can fully understand why teachers and even parents may misunderstand what Frary is suggesting as actually “lowering” expectations. I do not agree with writing a test that sets students up for failure by eliminating the “easy” questions and only addressing more difficult questions. Assessment, like instruction and learning, is a scaffolding process.

Once more, if test scores and grades were kept separate, then a difficult test would NOT be setting kids up for failure.

I think we need to be focusing more on the process of the learning and how we proactively instruct for mastery and less on SCORES, SCORES, and SCORES!

Reply by Tammy Hauser on February 20, 2010 at 5:35pm

Charity,

I think that right now, we concentrate too much on scores. We have sucked the fun right out of school. I have many parents that agree with that also.

Reply by Rebecca Mankins on February 21, 2010 at 3:16pm

I can remember doing fun assignments in elementary and junior high schools. I agree that the fun has been taken out of school because the focus is on performance. So, the question is, what do we do about it?

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Fray (1995) asserts that the passing level for high school students and college classroom tests are too high for most students at 70%. He further states that tests can be shortened in length to limit the number to test questions that are answered correctly by at least 90% of the students. The thought of 70% as a passing score is thought to have begun in elementary school.

Did it occur to anyone that one possible reason why classroom tests scores tend to be high is because the tests are too easy?

Personally, as a test taker I feel more comfortable and confident in a testing environment when there are a few “easy” questions on the test. I think that it begins the cognitive process as the test becomes more difficult. I don’t agree with eliminating the “easier” questions, but perhaps there can be a few less. I feel ready to tackle an assessment when I recognize some answers and feel my stress level decrease. It allows my concentration and focus to increase. So, I do not agree that all of those questions should be eliminated.

I feel that a classroom assessment not only assesses the students’ abilities. I feel that a classroom assessment reflects how well a teacher taught the prescribed objectives. It is as much an examination of how well a teacher taught the material as it is how much a student learned the material.


I agree with you on test anxiety, I love answering those first few questions and saying...Yes I CAN do this. The classroom assessment should be based off how well the teacher covered the material and how much the students retained.

Reply by Charity Nightingale Horton on February 21, 2010 at 11:47am

hhhhmmmm....if we adopted Frary's ideas I don't think I would have survived LAW CLASS!


I agree with your statements about tests measuring how well you taught material. If all of your students do poorly on an assessment it should be cause for reflection--about your teaching and about the assessment itself.

Right on! There are at least three reasons why students might be poorly on a classroom assessment: didn’t learn the material, weren’t taught the material, poor assessment. If all or nearly all the students do poorly on the assessment, then the problem probably does not lie with the students. That leaves teaching and assessment as likely culprits.

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I agree whole heartedly with Rebecca M. Assessments give feedback on the students' performances as well as the teacher's effectiveness. Again, my ideology is based on criterion-referenced feedback. The norm-referenced information we get back from EOG's does not give enough information on what each student knew and didn't know when all was said and done.

Actually, as we’ll see in our readings, assessments—scores on assessments, that is—do not provide adequate feedback for students. Constructive and critical feedback, not scores, is what is needed.

Right now, I'm not a big fan of Frary.

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Reply by Tiffany Smith on February 20, 2010 at 2:13pm

Frary, in his article argues that in order to be a useful assessment, students must be given a difficult test in order to get the most accurate information regarding ranking students in regards to the content assessed on the assessment. Frary argues that items that can be answered by over 90% of students should be used in rare circumstances. Using easy questions encourages students especially at the beginning of the test, but also using difficult questions to challege other students to learn their stregths and weaknesses.

Frary states that when you have 90 percent of students answering the questions correctly, you generate (90X10) 900 bits of information, but when you have 50 percent of the students answering correctly, you generate (50X50) 2500 bits of information. With more bits of information, you are better able to make decisions about rank of class memebers based on the content of the test.

Frary states that the ideal assessment would be an assessment where the average score is 50% because that would lead to the greatest amount of information revealed through the assessment.

I, however, feel that if the average score on classroom assessments is 50%, then I have a problem proving that my students are learning in my classroom. If students are only able to answer half of the content questions correctly then are the students really proficient in the content that was assessed?

It depends on the difficulty of the assessment. You could write an assessment where half the items measured most of what you considered essential for establishing minimal competency. The other half could be written to assess attainment of LTs beyond minimal competency

l also argue that if the average is 95%, then one must question if the assessment is really assessing the content that was taught and if it was comprehensive enough to assess all aspects of the content taught.

I believe that a test should measure the content that was taught, but I do not think that an average of 50% is feasible. We have discussed students wanting to come to school and be successful. We talked aobut retaining children and the fact that retention increases the likelyhood of future drop out. I know that if I scored on average a 50% on assessments, that I would not like school very much and would not want to continue. I fear that with this average passing score being 50% or lower, that we are affecting the student's future success and self-esteem.

While I agree that it may be difficult, I also think that students can be educated about assessment. It may not be too difficult to get them to understand that a score in the 40% to 60% range converts to a “C.”


I agree with the mentality of 50 percent passing rate...I would not want to come to school if I failed all the time. I do not understand why colleges use a different scale (10 point)? Shouldn't we just all be on the same page?

Why does 50% HAVE to denote failure? You are locked in an unsupportable mindset.


I wish that Frary took it one step further and explain what he think should happen for gardes for that students that scores 50%. Does he mean that we should grade on a curve? If that is what he means - then I am good with it.

In a sense he IS saying something like that. Not a curve, but some kind of equating procedure that converts a 50% on a test to an achievement score of, 70. This is not rocket science. It is easy to do. If fact, this is what the state does with EOG and EOC raw scores.

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Frary (1995) thinks that all easy questions should not be asked on the test because the students should already know them and that would be a waste of paper. He also thinks that the passing score of 70 is way too high. He wants the average degree of difficulty around 50 percent instead of 70 percent. He feels that it would make it a more valid test. I wonder if Frary ever taught in the public education setting with real students.

See several of my comments given earlier.

I agree with some of what he is saying about having the entire exam full of simple questions but there has to be a mix of difficulty or the motivation will decrease. I usually try to ask more simple questions near the beginning and then progress to harder ones toward the end. I feel that the students respond to this well and it helps them stay motivated. I agree with Frary’s mentality concerning rigor in classroom assessments but I do not know how it would play out in a true classroom setting. It seems that we should be focused on helping our students be the best they can be instead of trying to “rank” them.

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Basically, Frary’s position on test difficulty is that if 99 of 100 examinees got a question correct, the outcome provides 99 bits of information. However, if only 90 answer correctly, 900 bits are generated. However, if 50 students answer correctly and 50 answer incorrectly, then 2500 bits

are generated. He also says that questions that only half students can answer correctly are the best for generating ranking information. When examiners limit the use of test items that are answered correctly by more than 90 percent of examinees, they also prevent waste.

I think that this argument applies to classroom assessments. If there are too many easy questions, then what are we truly teaching students? I think that we need to be careful, though. I don’t think we should use classroom assessments for any kind of ranking. I think that assessments need to be a true measurement of what students know. If we do this by taking off the majority of easy questions, then so be it. I don’t think that Frary is saying that we should take off every easy question, just the majority. Students need to feel successful.

The only argument I would have to Frary is EC students. EC students are expected to pass EOG tests that are on their grade level material. For some students with a low average IQ, I am not sure they could pass such a test.

See my earlier comments given in reply to several or the posts. Setting passing cut points can be done on difficult tests just as easily as it is done on easy tests. There is nothing scared about a raw score of 70 or 80 percent correct.


We are getting close to the year that, according to NCLB, that all students should be performing on grade level. Unfortunately, I'm afraid we will also see a huge increase in the drop out rate.

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Frary (1995) does not like the concept of curving grades to get them to the 70% “passable” standard. He feels the tests that produce the below normal standard results are on target. Frary thinks the easy questions pad the grades and are not necessary because 90% of the students will answer them correctly. He feels the Bloom’s level 1 questions are a waste of clerical time and supplies.

I do agree with Frary’s view on test length, which is the typical test should be shorten. I also feel that his concept of assessment would be fine to administer in advanced college courses and possibly AP high school courses. I do not feel this test item selection method is appropriate for typical high school classrooms. Some students might not understand the basic foundations of a concept, and if the test does address the basics how will the teacher know where the breakdown is occurring. The lower level students might completely give up before completing half of a test. We must remember that we are educating ALL students at the high school level. I understand the rationale behind his argument; I just think it is better suited for high adept and motivated classes.

I believe that every level of Bloom’s Taxonomy should be present with a prominent amount of level 2 questions.

If I read your reply correctly, you see to say that students who fail to display minimal competency in the content domain should still be given a test where they can attain a passing score! No wonder grades are meaningless.


Kristi- I agree that most tests should be shortened. Right now the EOG is as much about stamina as it is about content knowledge and reading ability.


I appreciate your correlation to Bloom - a good way to view the topic. We are asked to accomplish differentiation by student ability - I see your point about Frary not taking that into account.

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Reply by Pamela Cowell on February 21, 2010 at 7:23pm

Frary (1995) states in his article that a 70% passing score is too high for high school and college students. He goes on to say that easy questions should be left off tests because most students would know those answers. Frary states that tests should contain only difficult questions. These tests will yield lower averages, but we should not be alarmed because questions that only half can answer correctly, is better for ranking purposes.

I feel teaching and learning should focus on mastering skills and concepts needed to understand the content. Tests should include easy and difficult questions so that teachers can gauge what students know and where the gaps are. We should not focus so much on ranking, but whether our students are competent and knowledgeable individuals who understand the learning process.

Maybe Frary is right. We have been programmed to believe that 70% or better is proficient. If our teaching is rigorous and we want to see if our students can think critically about what was taught, then a test of difficult questions might assess that. If the majority of the students can answer half the questions correctly, then I would assume that learning did take place.

Agreed, we should all be teaching for mastery. But this is not inconsistent with assessing degree of competency. If some kids fail to meet mastery, wouldn’t it be great if we had an accurate measure of how far below mastery they are? By the same token, among those who do show mastery, wouldn’t it be great to know how far above mastery they are?

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Reply by Jennifer Sherman on February 21, 2010 at 7:42pm

Frary’s argument is basically why waste time testing on information that ninety percent of the students know. This type of testing does not lend itself to any type of growth or learning and does not apply any type of higher order thinking that can be assessed. Frary’s philosophy would be equivalent to me giving my students a test on addition of two plus two, zero plus one or one times five. I agree with him. Why would a teacher waste their time on such an assessment or questions? This goes back to the class discussion on standard error. When a teacher places a question on a test that is for a bonus, extra credit or just to make sure everyone gets it right, similar to the question “what day of the week is it”?

I believe that the questions on a test should be meaningful and relevant. I also believe that the questions should be open-ended. Open ended questions provide more insight on student understanding. I think the seventy percent passing score is too low, whereas Frary feels it's too high. It amazes me how the state wants to raise the standards of education but they don’t raise the passing score. What would happen if we incorporated the college philosophy of, if you get one C you will be on academic probation? I think the bar needs to be set to that in our school system. Passing should be an overall average of B or better to get promoted to the next grade. The state accepts three F’s out of four as passing for the year, and then wants to ask why the students are not showing growth and learning. This is why students don’t put forth much effort. I had a student that received an F his first quarter, an A the second quarter and an F for third and fourth quarter. He passed his grade. His previous report cards were identical to the grades he received in 6th grade. He told me that he knew he only had to pass one quarter to pass his grade. He was right, he had played the game and he knew how to win. He knew he would be promoted with one passing grade for the quarter in each class. He said that he selects which quarter to get his “A”. There are many students with this mindset. I also believe that students should not be allowed to participate in any school activities if they have more than one C, especially sports!

Anyway, I personally create my own test. I provide the students with a study guide that I develop; on what I want them know, study, and understand. This study guide consists of the most important concepts of the skill that I have taught and examples of each type of problem that will be on the test. What the student’s don’t know, until the test, is that the study guide is the test. I only do this with a few of my test. The students begin to catch on, which is good. I then give the same type of problems on the test from the study guide but with different numbers and sequences. My test questions are for the most part open-ended, because I teach math. Students get credit for each step of the process in solving the math problem. If they get the answer right and the steps are incorrect, I take points off as well as vice versa. I’m not just checking for the answer. Then there are the questions I want the students to answer mentally. This type of assessment is assessing the student’s capability to solve problems without paper and pencil or calculators. After the answer, I ask the students to explain their thinking process, out loud to the class.

Jennifer, If you read some of my earlier comments to posts, you will see that whether or not students get As, Bs, etc. is under the control of the test maker. You can change the cut points any way you like and some teachers will just adjust the difficulty of their tests.

I don’t believe in playing tricks on students…it is NOT educationally defensible. There are serious negative consequences of keeping kids out of sports because of low grades. We can talk about these another time, if you like.

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Reply by sharon anderson jones on February 21, 2010 at 8:53pm

I agree we must be honest about our intentions as teachers about testing. We must know and understand this process of testing. We must we careful to develop good tests. We must also keep parents and students informed of the process. Testing must be used to increase student achievement not decrease it.

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Reply by MaryJo Wharton on February 21, 2010 at 8:58pm

Frary (1995) argues for more difficult tests and that for high school and college level classes easy questions should be removed for the purpose of ranking. He argues that a 70% passing level is much too high for a large majority of high school or college-level classroom tests. He is concerned only with tests that cover fairly diverse topics on which scores are determined by adding up points for each right answer.

In taking a test, I do believe it should include a few basic questions. I feel that those do improve confidence and tests for other variables that may affect test reliability. I do agree to the extent of using these tests on a college level. I feel that at this stage, the professor is no longer testing for mastery skill but are testing very diverse topics. Many of introductory college level courses ask students to think outside the box.

This to me sounds so much like the bell curving system which was used in my undergraduate level degree. Student’s scores were plotted on a continuum 0 to 100, and where ever the average score sat, that was the new C, even if it was 47%. If the highest score was a 78%; that would be the A.

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lesn. · Web viewFrary details that a more challenging test is a fairer test when the spread of grades is greater. He argues that it is a waste of effort, time and resources to pose