Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 1931

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

592 Do~ J,Sd Hv ,/ymd's, Etc., Bill. [ASSE;\lBLY,] Questim s.

WEDNESDAY, 2 SEPTEl\'IBER, 1931.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. C. Taylor, 1Viw7wr) took the chair at 2.30 p.m.

MORTGAGORS RELIEF BILL. '\sSE}~T.

r.rr. SPE_\KER announced th~ rr:ccipt of a rnessagc fron1 I-ii:; Exrellcncy the Governor, convoying Ills Excollcncy'f3 assent to this I3ill.

QTJESTIO:\'S. CTJOW='f FEES P.IJD TO BARP~~TERS AXO

SOLICITORS.

;\lr. DASII (Jlund'ngburra) asked the A ltorneY-Gcneral-

" 1. VYhat was the aruonHt of fo(s I aid on behalf of the Crtw·n dLiring the la,;t iinancial vcar to barrister aud solicitors, including. the Hon. the Attornr ;·-General'!

"2. (aj For what c J.se, or servi, cs, and (b) to whom were the fees paid, and (cj what amount in this respect was paid to each barri::;ter (including ihc Attoruey-General) or solicitor so concerned?"

The ATTOR:'\EY-GE:\'EHAL (Hon. N. F. :\Iacgroarty, South Brisi,anc) replied-

" 1. and 2. The i11fonnation is bciug obtained.''

:Xt-ABER ov SELECTJO)l"S A":"\D L_\:\"D _:\vxiT_..1 BLs FCd SEL ~snmr, 1925-1930.

:\lr. W. A. HUSSELL (lhlby) asked tbo ~- nctary for Public Lanclo-

" \Vhat was the number of and arc:1 of land made v ·. selection during the car.s 1925-26, ll-2:J-27, 1927-28, 1928-29, and 1929-30, r:

[2 SEPTE~1BER.] Privi!egr. 593

LrnxG ARE.\ IN ScRUB LANDS AXD RECLABIED PEAR LANDS.

Mr. IY. A. RUSSELL (DaliJy) asked the 8ccl't'tnr.' for Public Lands-

.. 1. Has the Landc Department yet r!ccidod upon what is a living area in the :,crub lands and reclaimed pear land~. in the Dalby, Ghinchille, Pelican, and Bnrr11 Bun· a districts?

" 2. If so, on what basi. ~nd evidence was the quc>tion of lidng area; decided?

"3. Is he aware that when it was pointccl out by a deputation that there >Yore fe\\·cr settlers on the land in the Gocndi1. indi clistriet than before the "·r. and as practically the whole income of the people of QLtecnslancl was obtained frm11 the land, it was not onl:v unreason-a ble-lmt aLa a!!ainst the best interests o: the country, that the land should be continually ptit into large and yet larger areas-" this tended to unemployment, a1ocl the impoverishm~nt of the country towns ?j'

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS -(Hon. \Y. A. Deacon, C1lnningham) replied-

•· 1. )~ ( '_1, '· 2. This rnaitcr i~ 0 ~hau~tiYf:lv dls-

CLl '-f'(( by ihE:' Prlekl:v-pPar L1wl dntCrs t:uonghout th0

n!•ar belt 0arlv jn th:.: culTCnt vr.ar. It ~..-as rnbk•d i~1 Pnrlinrncnt ar~d n1ade aYail·hle for the information of hon. DH·Jnlx•r;;:,;, and I ' ould ach·:isc t·hc hon. Jilreby the i~-:lf;rmation cL n be- supplied expedi-tiously?"

Tlw SECRETARY FOR P'PBLIC I::\-f'TTIL:CTIO~ (Hon. R. J\1. Kiug, Log•nll rPplicd-

" _\ 1 'tUrn o'iYino- thj~ infonnation 1" beinrr ~l-l'f'1)Ul"'d. a~cl. as , oon as it is n -,,_{. ·it 'will be submitted."

BFnGI.\RY AT YAR\\TX Pos'r OFFICE. Mr. nrXLOP (llncklwrnzlion). without

no!irc. asked the Home Smier for cel'tain information, but I notice that the lettcl'. which was inclur!ed in the question. hqs been deleted and the form of the que,tion altE'recl. The question as jt ap;c·n·s on thr busine-ss ~,hPet i:-' not th _' qn( _.tion of ,,,.hich I ga Ye notice.

0/fr. SPE_\Y{ER: T};, ho-~. n:r-rnlY'r's qu('s-t.ion [L'; it· npp 'l.J·s nn the businrss sheet i::: rwrfcr ~e_vt n0'-irc of tht> (lnP~,tion yr"tcrdn-,~ the hon. n :nbPr n1J.d a L ng (]uotat!on frcrr1 a new-"p8pcr--

::..Tr. BnLCF': It v.~a~ a letter in rLply to the PrPrniC'r.

l\tir. SPEAKER: Order! Anrl t.hcn thr hon. n1ornhrr nsk0rl in the ronc1nding portion of his

594 [ASSEl\IBLY.] Btt9'ncss on Thu:sdays.

PAPERS.

Th~: follo .... in;;- paper:;; -,y0rc laid on the table:-

Re~nhtion "1\;o. 376 um1n and for the .,purposes of" The Primary ~roclucers' ?g';f6'll;~"l~~~, and :\farkctmg Acts,

Order in Council under " The SuprcmC e thP motion. In the motion th0 llrpnt. LcJdcr of the Govcrnm?nt said that lH' UFld0 no apology for :::o dmn, -anothrr indic:1tion of tl10 1nachlne-like, sonllrss chernclrr of the polic. c trrieThn SPCRE'rAEY F JH PrnLic l'W to pn .. 'Yent the 1110t·o~1 fl'o~n going throng-h. The fact :s', aM you. Sir, arc- well n an>, t,hat i.he C~ovcrnrnrnt ·~ 1'0 n ,por· ~blE for ~:'JnC'w~~lling their O\Yn 2-.ddr, "., in Heply.

Anothce reaP,on whv I am opposPd to tho can·vin(::- of ihi~ motion nt this junctnn~ is l•(''"a,1lS0 th:re is a vf'r• jffil)Ortant .and 'alu-ctbk motion st>tncling. in tho nrrmc of thr bon. member for \Yan·cgo, namely--

" Tll·1.t. ]n th0 onin1on of this liouse, le ;:::i:-lttion d1onld hn::tf'HJs, and hm0 paynlf'ni- coutracts gcnc-ra.1l~~."

1~Yf'rv Jn('mbPr of th~ IIousc. jnclnding thr• Attol~nPY-(~encraL has agT('ed at difff•rt'ni tinw ,. to th nc·t-.--,\:-..it~v for rcYie\v of the""' things; aLd p:1rticulnrl:~ is that th" ( ·l.""f:-dnril-lg- a p,•rio· 1 whPn the n1

1 tecedr-rtcc aj Go'Vernment [2 SEPTE:\iBER.] Bus(ne:cs on Tl ursdays. 595

tht" right to initiate discuhion on n-,aU/:rs affecting public intt•rest; and the C'trrying' of a motion of thi · kind, after only two days ha' c h~Pn a.llov.·0d to privatn lllmnlJers. i:s an outrag(' on the 11riJ ·iple of coni rol o[ Parliament by the members thereof, and I ,nn cnt-ircl~, opposed to it at this jui.ct ure. An~· dc·lay that hr.;;; occurred in gcttir1g on with tho bnsinf's~ i'· C'lliirely Hw n .~pon-,1-bilitv of the Govcrnm0Lt. They wero l'C•'IJOnsible for the stonewalling of tlieir own n:otion Ior the aclontion o; th'' Addrcs-. in Reply; and I prot.cst ctgainst the House not hPir '!; aff~n·ded the opportunity of di~ :us .;jng the EJ.Otion \"dJich has been s :i do\Yn in tllc name of the hon. member for \Varrego. Snrely t.hc G-ovcrnrncnt aro y1rep :r,·d to ha.c that di~c"s.-.:cd on one day, at an.\ rat'. To-morrcnv is p1·ivatP n1PrnLers' cla)-·, ces .. sary to have a n),~i-~ing- CharnbE'r to ch...,C'k thi' lcf\islntion pas·c..'d in this Chamber. Tf it is the intention to proceed promptly with Government businos" _. then why not sit on

Monday? \Vith me, the week commences "ith Monday and conclude,; on Friday. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that if you wrre to exprcs:3 ~our private opjniou you ould arlmit that Parliament does not sit on Mon-da~T' so as to 1nc t the convenien-ce of country nH:-mbcrs v;ho de ire to return to their horru '· .during the week end.

Mr. ANN AND : Wh.J do ;; ou go home?

2"r. DG~lLOP: If the liouso sits on }.1onday, thon I will not go horne. \'VithoGt he ing- egotistical, I think I cm claim that I g-ive more attention to the bur.incos of this House than anv other hon. member. It is n1can at this jllncturd to clm·1_. dc;".'Jl on pri-Yah: mon1b0rs' bv~ine·'~.

.Mr. BRAXD: The hon. mc,1ber for Kcppcl rnn attend to your business.

:\fr. DU:'-JLOP: The hon. memb·r fnr ButTnnl nutkes an interjection in th,-· hope of getting a. reply, but I am not going to be a second hon. member for \Yarrcgo. (Laugh-h\r.) The GoYernment are not anxious to debate the motions standing in the n.J,mes of the hon. member for Gregor:: and the hem. member fu \Vanego. The Government have-a majority. and they c>n,n hit the Opposition on the head with the 2'\ationalist hammer an) tin1c bT, a~Jplying the; " ~ag.·' I nnp:'n \\'as introduced hv tho then Pr0micr. :VIr. :\IcCormack. That. ;., as after a laps0 of

596 o_f Govern;n.?nt r~~SSE:\IBLY.] Business on Thu·sdays.

crisis. ..J..r. }lcConnack, in the course of his speech in 1927, said-

" \Yhcn we were in opposition-as all Oppo.,itions do-,Ye had to find business for pl'iv ..tte rn0n1bcrs' day; and on very manv occasions wo found it difiicult to keep. the business paper full."

~'Thnt v, q:; the confession of the late Prcrnicr. I think that to-dav the Opposition find it very -difficult to p{it any coE·-tructivo idP~.s beforP this 11ott~c \·r c uro, therefore, ;,vise -in 'U!Jportlng the 1notion to give prec~dcnre to Government businrs:; on Thursdays inste Lc1 of wa::-ting our tirne on such matters as that conl~inod in the motion submitted by the hon. mcmbrr for Grogory.

;;Ir. l\lGLLAK (Flind1rs) [3.4]: The Go-Ye·· nmc:nt do not v,.1nt conJtructivc idc"'~s, h0nc:, tho motion. The hon. member for Wide Btty talked about wasting time; but no pnriy has '"astcd n1orc time or expcndi-tu; c in the printing of " liansard " and in other dirPntions than the Government at a time \vhon eycryono is preaching econorny. Much of ,.~hac has been ·:1id bv hon. mem-bers opposit0 this se"ion could have been left unsaid. One rr ~.son why I am opposed to th" cutting out of private members' day iJ that the :more tirno occupied on this question bY the Opposition the better it will be for QqL,~nsiand, because the Government ''-ill h Ye le" time for legislation, ancl les> dama;;e Lan be dow3 to the State. That is th real re tson I am opposed to the 1notion. ..:\nGL·her rc2....son v;,:hy I mn opposed io it i~ tl1at the Opposition have rights, and the Government haYG shown a paltry spirit in attempting to filch away those righbJ fron1 us.

S omc of the meet important Bills I'YCl' pas,·,:d in this ParlianH~nt were initiated in the oarh· de·· of the Labour movement on pri, 'ltr> n1·~nlb rf'' day. That is another reason wh~, rriYf-de rncmbcn~' day should not

s.u ppr03scd :::o unreaFona bly as the propose.

:Ylr. POLLOCK (Gregon;) [3.5]: One of the r• .1sons v:hy I obj crt to the passing of thi ~. 1nction to~dav is, not only because we have not yet had an opportunit,,~ of discussing tho motion •tanding in thJ namG of the hon. member for vVarrego, but berauso there is an arnendn1cnt to n resolution moYcd b~· rne, which is still on the sl.eet for private mem-bers' day. ::tnd unckcided. That amendment was moYerl bv the Secrctarv for Labour and Industry, and is one on wh.ich I should have liked to hrrYe had some discussion. 'rhe Minister's amendment reads-

,, That. in the opinion of this House, a policy of sccnring co-operation a1nongst citizens of all politica.l parties to work for the common good presents the best mlution of our ·•::ute national dHfieul-tip::;,"

We on this side have no objection to v;ork-ing with members of the Government Party for the common r:rood. We disagree as to just what would be for the common good, and, hrrd that motion boon gone on with, I had proposed to pnt in concrete terms just what the Opposition believed would be the right mc·"1snres for the co..::nmon good. rrhe extf'nsion of private lnembers' day for another fe, · dav;; 'vould give ns an oppcrtunity of sloowing the Govern-ment that we will work with them for the restoration of such things as the

[Jir. Clayton.

station hands' award and the n1etallifc·rou~ mining awardc.. \Ve are generally prepared to do everything to help the Government to build up the conditions they have broken do"IYTI, bccawo -~ in that "':\'ay ·we believe \Ve shall be working for the co1nn1on good. Is it 1:0t po.-c,ible tlmt. if the private mem-bers' dav were extended, we would be able to g·et together, if bon. members opposite "\Yere prepared to work in with us, and arrive at some basis of agrocrnent for tho good of a 11 our people? I am of opinion that the re3olubon and an1cnd1nent have not yet bcr 'l half di· em sed. If the Govcm-mcnt an~ e,enuinelv sincere in working for the common good of all people in this State, we can help them very greatly; but we rcfme to be led into the position of being accomplices of the Government in somethin_; ·dtich is not for the common good. The Opposition have few privileges, if any. They arc in the position of being forced to initiate discussion on whateYcr legislation tbey think is nocC's'1rY within two half days, which is actuallv within six honrs. 'Chore are, it is trne. fortv-six members on tbe Government side of the House and only twenty-six on this side: but thrtt noes not alter the fact that we ropre:-oent a Yer:v considerable section of the people: and, while "·e probably repre-seiJt ntanv more 110\V than \VC did on last on tlF' n~ rt of the Governr:n0nt t>~ con?idr-r n~"' interests of the people ,-ho 0le~ot0d thP LB honr Party-n ycr:v considerable pflrb 1r this Home-and of thoeo ,,_-ho voted for th · GoY ern nu nt und0r a misapprehension.

There is very little more that I want to c "'' exc0pt to ·a,lcl that thron.g-]1out Qne

Precedence of Government [2 SEPTE}fBER.] 597

a re being instructed if they have more lnnch tho,~,n they rcquiT(', to varccl it np :-:o that other children \Yho have not sufficient wili be able to get something- to e:it. The ~"cretary for Public Instruction kn·nvil th"t v·hat I arn sa., ing is truP. BYcry· .. ·,,hero people arc on the edge of starvation. I>coplc on the dolo with famjlies' can 'cc nothing ahead of them. There is no hope for them. Indications show that the Government do not 1ntend to provide any lcgi ··lation-thcro \\'as none prorniscd in the GoYcrnol''s Spf'c-ch·~to improve their lot; and this clu:v of day>-tlri, private rncrnbers' day-is the onlv da UllOn v;l1ich we can bring fcrp, ard find discuss Ulattcr ,, and let the public know just ho·,· far lhc Govnrnn1ent are faiEng in thcjr duty. (me of the main principles of repre: cntativc f],"OYCi'rHnPnt is this': that a Government is Plected to s,-:>rvc a certain timP whateYc'r that time may be--in tho case of Queensland 1' 1s three vcars-nnd the debates in Pallia· 1'1cnt rrrc ~for the purpose of giving the pL·oplc an Jn',_:>lligcnt gl~idc as to hov~ thcv .hall voting totally blind to the misc!'Y and suffering that i'' going on throughout thl' State.

. Mr. BRA:\'D (!Jurrum) [3.12]: It would Le .JU~t as well at this jun.cturp- to point CJU~ rh:tt, nobnthstanding the fa t that private lli.cmbers' ct·:y rnay be done> awav ,-vith, it Ynll not Lurke discn ·sion on thOse thin;·s that the Leader of tho Opposition and tho;c s1ttln0' Uchind hin1 de .Jrc to di~~uss in thi .... House. There will be quite a numl:wr of c·pportun·itjcs prc~cnting thcn1~dYcs before this ·ccs;on clo"cs to enable the Iron. member fm· \',' arrego to place hdoro this House the c1u~s: ion tha.t he propose•,, to raise uncle" thi~ pl:lYllcgc .. I · ~,TmpathiEF to a great ext0nt With the Jr~n. member for \Yarrego. 'Cn-cloubtedly !m Leader· has right!. intimated to the House that the questiOn Prono:;cC: to l-e raised by the hocrt. mernbcr is ~£ n1uch n1or!~ constrncti,:c \Yorih and Yaluc than that l"' hi~·b 1 \ e haye been djscu•sing under the motion submrtled by the hon. member for Gr2gory, \vhich :vas purely political propa~ ganda nnri subnnttcd for the sole reasoD of nnbarras'slng the Government.

. '1r. IIA::\fLO~ (Ithaca) [3.14]: It is neariv trme .hon. members realised the importam.'e of pnvato members' day. The hon. member \Yho has just spoken is entirelv wronO' vvhPn ~o says priyate rnc1nbers a·re inoYide~l later m the .se-,sion with the same opportunitic' and pnvdeges that they haye on prin,t" 1ncmbers~ day. A. motion on private mem-bers' day not only gives hon. members the right to discuss the matter but it gives this Chamber the right to' haYe a vote on any matter initiated by a private member. RPading- hack last eck oYer "Hancard" for 1896-7, I find that a motion in regard to the toll charged for CI'O'sing Yictoria Bridge was initiated in this f'hambor by a private member. It was discussed and voted upon by this House, and in 1896 the same resolution was discussed and voted upon in the Legislative Council. That is the privileg-e which is being taken from private members by thi,;

motion. Nobody disputes th-' fact th •t. on the Financial Statement and the Acldrcw· in RPpl,., I can vo1cc rn:; opinions on a very "·idc: ~range of subjc.·c·ts: but private lnrnl-bor/ clay is the only oc. "sion on whicL private n1cn1bcr have th{:: rig-ht to initiate discussion , nd take a '·ote. \Ye had that illustrated in ilw case o: the motion of the hon. member for Hockhampton. His resolu-tion was put to the Chamber and private rnen1bors had a right to vote upcn it. I-Iad that motion been carried, while it v 's not binding on the Govcrn~-11cnt~ it would havC' been an intimation to the Govcrnrnent as to how the House loo!n wh:,' I object to the reso-lution of the Dcputv Premier. I h 1ievc that) in the int0rcsu of Pilrli,'tnent itself, more consjdoration should be gi \en to the opinions of priT ate ITlCnlUc,rs. It \vould the Govennncnt to giYc priYat'-~ me(nbers right throughout. the ~c _:si on to initiate and have a voic tHkcn upon rc·

598 Pre 'C 1• n~e of Govern.'Hcnt [ASSK\IBLY.] Bnsincss on 'f'hursdaJ'·

do uot wi: 1.1 to take up the tin1P c.f tlw llousc, and I thcreforf' brg to nloYc the following amcndrucut:-

'· Add to the mot:on the words-' provided that this shall not op.:ratL' until the n1otions and fLinendn1cnt already on the bueiness sheet arc disposed of.' "

That will ::;iv__ an opportunity of haYing· a YOtc on the resolution already on the busi-nos~ sheet.. V\" e shall b,,. prepared then to a· c;i~t th Govcrnn1ent in connection ·with their business. It is only fair thttt the Go-v·ernrnent should ac< ,•pt the arnendrnent, seeing that the obj·'·Ct is to dispose of the private memben;' businc3s on the busine'·'3 (.hec)t. There i.~ ono rojolution which ha-; Hot lJcon n.ovcd; and the arllllldnreJJt will an opportunit.y fo1· the rnotioH to b( rnovcd and the rnattoi' to bP di~cussed fro:11 beginning to end. I hope the Govern-ment will ac'ocpt th amendment.

:i\h. FOLEY (L< iehT trr!i) [3.20]: 1 Jc"ire t~) scc:onJ. thr- anH H2rncnt. Likt• ~.Lhf'r hon. rnernbors, I stro11gly ohjC>ct to the \vhittling a 1.;,dy •f the priviiog·r·R fJf rnernb:'l's of thi~ Iloube. I I'f'C:1gnisc• that it ha~ bcpn the (·u·tmn for thP UoY'·rnnlf'nt of the day to have control over businc ,s, and at a c0r~l.1in tir_:_c 'l'Pstrict the u~c of urivatc rnornbers' day; Jut I think this is the earliest poria 1 on rt ~'or· 1 at "~vhlch a. GoYonnneHt has

d to Ltke- a way th:- right of priYatc io di~cns:: mattr·r.·, on what is

known as priYah-. ll:h'rnUcrs' day. \Vc have hu.d only two d1vs for SlLh di:-cussions this ~P:,:J]on; · arHl the ~cnl:: opportunit.;· th·tt \·ill ocrn1· a~nin this scs~ion of debating 1nattcrs such a~ tl1o·,e dealt 1 ·ith in private mPm-bPrs' bu :nL'' will b0 the dch'1tcs on the FinaL~1al St1,tt>rr;c·nt and the Edtinu.tcs. The GoYf'rl1L10nt shoE1d allo\v private n1mnbcrs' day to continue for a fpw rnorc \Yeeks at Jc'a:c.:, sheet in thP narnc_, of pri\ clh; l1iL'll1bL'l'S Call be d1:--Cll ,.:;ed during- the course of the s~;Rsion. The nLttcf.:;; can Le di~cussed, fer insb:lllCC', dtuing I he debate on the Financial Statement.

~lr. 1-I.1 ::\LO~: Can \Ye take a vote?

T,c SECRET.'.R': FOR PUBLIC IN-8TH CCTION: Y O',; vou can take a vote on the Estimates.

:Ylr. H.1KLOK : Thee hon. gentleman know:, ihat that is quite roug.

The SECRETAUY FOR PUBLIC I:\'-~oTRCCTIOK: You c"n tako a sort of YOte, at '"n~~ raic. If hon. membora opposite desire ·to yrnhlatc; their yie'.' s, they will have an ample opportunity of so doi111r,. Here we haYe the hon. member for Flinders open!:· ~tating that his aYO\YC'd object in speaking ._. ,ralnst the rnotion is to block Go\'Crnmen ... bJ.~.5inL·,S.

:\fr. M r;LLAN: The bad busine.,s of the Go,·e;'nlncnt.

The SECRETARY :FOR PUBLIC Il\-STlH.ICTIO:\': 'Ihc GovernmPnt are quite prcp:

Pr,'cedencc uf Government [2 SEPTE}IBER.] 389

amendment moved by the Secretary for Labour uncl Industry, apparently actmg for and on beh Jf of the UoYcrnment, means anything at all, it rnyans. the. co-OJ?eration o£ all political parties m chccussmg the proLlcm. affecting· the pcopl< at the present time, After an ,,mcndmcnt hkc that rs nto\·ccl it is absurd for the Deputy Premier to hiut that he w'i!l apply the "gag," by savirw in cficct. "\Vc do not iutend to aliow· the Oppo ition to discuss anv matters that dH':; cue to initiate."

The SECHET.\RY FOR Prm.r· I::-.::~TR1~:c 'l'JO~ : J'\ot alicr the statement made by the hon. member for Flinders.

::\lr. W. FORGA:'--1 SMITH : It has b(en shtted h,· the Deputy Premier that hm1. rncrnbcr::; · arc nhntys given an opportu11ity dnrirq· the session to di~cuss the rnatters alreaclv on tho business 'h( ~~t. That is tru.~: but th~ :\lini•tcr c 1nw:>t quote any precedent for private nrcnrbcrs' bu ,inoss boing cut out entirclv aftet onlv two afternoons have l;ecn do·,·ote~l to it. The qnotation by the hon. HlOnlL •r for \Vido Bav indicatt·'· that in tho v d. It is a n1~1tter of grayc regret thrrt tlw CoYormnent take up the attitude that the business of Parlintn"nt' mu"t be roHcluetr'd in. a rnachinc-like>, s.onl]P~S fashicn. It is al ;o a mrrttcr of regret that the Covern-lnf'nt d' , irr- to burkc r1i~rns:::1on on n1a 1-tc:rs of urgc>nt public importan< ~.

:ur. COOPER (BI'I m rr) [3.31]: The chiPf coni• nrion o£ the Secretar•· for Public Instruction and th8 hon. mcrnbcr for Burrum '·as that nr"!tters rrll'ea.d;'",~ appearing on tho businr''3 sheet in the name of private mem-b r•, could be discussed at other timEo. The Serretnr:v for Public Instmction particularly rf'ft1Tt:d 1'.1 Cornrnittce of Supp l:v a>; an occasion when thc"e matters could be dis-cu'-::-;cd and he CY011 went so far af; to

that a vote mivht be taken also. I wonld like to draw his attention to a rnling ~ri en by you, 1\Ir. Speaker, on 25th October, 1929. On that occa,·ion the hon. m mbor for Leichhardt vus addressing tho f'ham!'er. and said-

" .:\n atternpt \Vas made along those 1inc in the ngrccnH•nt 1naclc with l\Ir. s:_)igh."

Thc'n follo'vYCcl this-'' The SPEAKER: Order; The hon.

nwn1ber cannot introduce that subject. .. ?I'Ir. FOLEY: It is beariug O_l the

.. The s_l.t._\KER : T!tc hon. llleinber can~ not introduce ihat subject.

· :vrr. Foi ... EY: I do not ,,_·ant to create .1 L ~a'' L but I \.YHnt ro refer to a section of th0 a~prceincnt.

'·The ~~~'EAKER: Order: The hon. IllClnber cannvt rpfpr ro the agree:rnont.''

l.,,::;.U:~r 011 the sarnc da;-7 , "\Yhen. the ho~l. 1DC1Hber f.or Bowcn \Vas adtlre"sing the Chamber, he attempt< ,j •aleJ to refer to th~ ~lPigh a·~recrncni, but wa:-5 rulect out of order b"·- ~out 'If. Subscquenlly when ihc ~ C'retarv for 2\l1ncs ati.X', Jptcd to addrc:>s ll:rnsclf ·to the L!bjcct 1 yuuJ =..\1r. Spcal;;:er1 ,,id-

;, I t LYe a1re;;Jv rnled that rcfe.i.OllCt: to the S!cigh agreclnt ''t is entirely out of order, and l Lcpe the hdn. geutlc1nan \rill 'not r _·fer to that 111attcr at this juncture."

TllL reason for your 1 uli..tg~ .0-lr. Spc'kcr, '' ,,, ihat on t l,c- business sheet for the 25th Ol·tob(;r was this rnotion in the 11arr1e of the hen. 111C'n1bcr for Bowen, a priYate Illi'IllbC'r--

·' 'J'hnr all papel' relutillg to il~c con~ tract cntcrt:•d juto b\ the }lines J)epart-r;,ent '.- ith :.\fr. IL. C. Sleigh Gf 1 1el· bourn . b_ laid 011 the bble of the IIott•O."

that H1otion 'as 011 tlw bus1ncs:. iu the ru1n1e of tho ho11. nw1nbPr fo1·

bowen, no refc~·q1ce what·ever to the Sleigh r·"nL c•·uld b,; nwdc during the debates. Or1 ruling 1L v du1d not be possible for thn hon. rnc1~lh::r for \\~arrego to rcfc r to the su:,j ,•et matt:r of his motion during the {.L.'bat _'s rh is :.'C'S ion.

The S,r,, n)_ TARY roR PrnLIC' L.\S'l'Ru~.. rro~ : y-our sta tcrncnt is ridicuions.

:\h·. COOi'EE: I call attention, :Mr. ~poE!krl', to the> st~ttcn.wnt 1nade by the ;-)c.-cr-_•:.'ll'V for Public In cli ::-'!l:-;s the subject matter on the businc,.;;; sheet during the eh hates this S• , io11. One rea -on \\ hv I tlid not ~peak on the 1notion moved bv the hon. member for Rockhampton for i:Je clc Ul'O of the parJiamPntary bar at 3 p.m. was that I clicl not want to block other irnport.1nt matters fron1 ben1g drs~ cussed. I would have liked to have a word on that question, and so would other hon. membd's. \Y c would have Irked to ~ive the hon. mernb0r for TomYong an oppor· tunitv to stand up to his principles, irre, spect,ive of what the mover of the motion n1ight haYe said.

TiL~ SPEAI~JCH.: Order!

Jlr. Cooper.]

600 Pre~ec'en 'C of Ovvernno mt [AS'lElVIBLY.] Busin-·ss on Thursdays.

::llr. COOPEH: We did not cxerci·e our rights on that occ:-'sion because \YO d0sir0d to g-et to other matters of importance. such as the motion standing in the name of the hon. tncmbcr for Y\..,..arreg.:J, ber:aur.e 1ve know th .t. according to ycur ruling, \\·e could not in other debates refer to the subject a' it was ~lready do\Yn for discu:::sion.

i\Tr. HYNRS IT0 .. ,.""'' ili!) [3.35]: I snp-11ort tbo arncndrneLt. 1-I:v chief rca~on for objc\:tiPg to tho n1otlon if\ that it takc9 a\va.v o privilege to 'vhich c-.-~ry hon. member of this liouso is entitled. It is a priYilc~fC \Yhich has been exercised to a great extent in the past; and this ··. ftetnoon rcfcronc: has be'-n made to so:ne of the hmnane rtnd bendlcial joFislation ""·hich was initiated b:v 11rivate rnembcrs. In view of the very few privileges ,,-hich mombce,; of the Oppoil'ition have h •d :lncc the rrclv(11Jt of tl1c prc::ent GoYernment, we v;ould be fooli::;h to uJlow this motion fo ::....> tht·__.ugh \;iUwut vc;:.._·i:ng our prot: :t.

I ccrtainlv think that son1e action should he taken b_; the Government to g-iYe ' l-o the n1o~ion .tJ.nding in the nanlC of hon. rno.u1bcr for \Varrcgo. lt i:-; (_ entiat that lekiRlntion eho,.Jd be el'flCtPd to prutPct the public avaiu~t the inequitable ronditions lH.~ing inl[W;-;Pd und.t'r rent~purcha~c: ( f hornes, cash order s'ystcrns, and time T>aynicnt C'Oil-tl";J.'ts gcn0rally. It i·,: a rnatt.cr wlA;·.h is cf v~lal coneern to all hon. n1en1ber:~. ~~nd •·,Tc have had rh• statement of th• Deputy Leader of dw UovernnH:nt that it ·would be a very good thing if a discu ,ion of that nature could be d, nnd I ask 'vhy he cannot sit even this Friday, and le:; the irnportant rnotion, notiL' of \Yhich ha< been gjvcn b~, tho hall. 1ncn:.Ler for \Y urrego, bo discussed.

~J: SPEAKER: Order!

.. .tr. DCXLOP: I an1 supporting the

Prec€den~e of Go1:~rnment [2 SEPTEMBER.] Business on rp;·~ursd_~y8. 601

A,.,cmbly ns far as I can recollect, and I h promptly of the Bill aftp,· it hctd been put through its preliminary >tages. 1 mention this fact since it hai L(·nn stated that it was urgent legis-Lation, and 0ry necesFctry in Yiev,- of the incident::; as·_oclaL:d 1vith its iuti'(JC:-.~ction. I deBirc to enter an cn1phatic prate.riving private members of one of their tilnc-hmwured priYilef es, nan10ly, ThursJ.ay afternoons.

:.lr. A. J. JO:\ES (PrulrliN(Jton) [3.47]: The Deputy Premier will be well advised in either withdrawing the motion or acceptiag th2 '1rncndrnent of the hon. rnernb·.::r :fur J\Iunclingburra. The 1\olinister stre.csed the point that, when "\VC \YCre in offif',~, we moved a :::.irnlL r re .olution; but, cvPn if lYE' did : o, two wrongs clo not n1akP a right. 1 t 1-ras 1nuch later in the session, ho\vever, \Yhen a sir:nilar resolution \Yas n1oYcd by our GoYernn1ent.

It is not right to deprive hon. members their rights and privileges. T believe

thP limitation of spt'C'ches is JJOt :L wise 1·cform in this or aDv other Parliament I -: n remcrr1ber hcin£ in this I-Iouso when there was no limitation of speeches, and the bu~incss of thf' country WC'lJt on juf.t as well :j;1d as C'XpcJitiously. I belicv __ , in frc~·don1 of speech both in Parliament n.cd out of PDrliarnont.

The 1notion no doubt tak(v:: awn~- the rights and privi1cscs of hon. lncrlbC'r;;

602 Preccedc Le of Gave, mn·'nt [ASSE:\IBLY.J BusiJ: ~ss on Thursdays.

L: wili be folio' cd by the Deputy Le' jl'r of i ~il;' Opposition, for I noticed the ] .:;culor o th., Opposition go to him a leo :m·l ":•k hiru to ~peak. I-1e aho went -Lo tbc Lon. member for Fortit•1dc Valley, and a·d,ed h'm to gc~ iight the con1i11g oloct.ion5. The.~. do not offer a single conqructive SUP-'bcsHon, and it would Le L~tter if th' IIouse pro-CPcded to real :Ju -~nes:-j instead of allov\·ing the time to be wa3ted.

l\Ir. \VILSON (Fortitude I' all( y) [3.56]: I \\ould not have risen to cpfore going t:) their 111' ter;". Thcv \Verc responsible for tl10 delav, and thC'v now wieh to take it out oi the ~Opposition' b.\ proYcntlng us fron1 Yf'tl-tilai ing onr vic\rs in respect of n.attc:.. ~ already on the bn:;;.ines:" paper-matters that .. !Jould claim the attention of en:o·y intelli-c 2nt rcrson in the community. Onr object is to kt the Govcrnmc;Jt know that we at'P entitlod to son1o priYi1egcs in thjs I-Iou~c. l~Yon if we arP in thG minority nun1erical1y, we arc Pnlit!cd to our rights and privilcg• ;, If the Government ,-,-ill not let u·c lw.Ye moT thnn six hours to discus:;:; private lTii'"nbf'l~.-' businep·,, then it is not a fair thin·r. I locL2J m: objection to their action. -

::\ir. B U\BEH (li: Jlulnr{!) [4.11: I h;nc ~ ;-, n s~n ~1 lllOOll:J rjse and fall on thi~ an:-;t('rc~ building, and 1 ,~,-a~ YPry 1nur·h tl -pri: d yp-,terday tvhcn thP GuYcnnncnt £;aY 1} notice of tl1c rnotlo!l to aboli>h priya~c nl rn-Lers' aftt•rHcon '"'f: _•r v-dy one priv~_tr: nlcn~hcr'~ n1otion had been Ji_,·w-··J('d. As ha~

b

[2 SEP1'E:\IBER.] B tsinds on 'l'huriJ1ays. 603

Of emHSt'. ono can quitoheJ Ill the affirmative.

(Fur -tion-" Th'lt the word, proposed to i:c ,,dc1 ( t to the n1otion (~[1·. JJrr.·d1's um~::ufm'' ') be so added-~put; and the House diYitled:

AYES, 21. 2·Ir. Barber

DedfGrd Bow Brnce Conroy f'ooper De ,h TJu,1? )r• Foley Hanlon Hanson .Jon,; ;, A. .Jone;;;, A . . J.

~Ir. Kirwan 1\:!ulLtn O'Keefe Pease Po!look Sn1ith 'Wellington \YiJson Winstanley

Tcll.'1'8: BraL·Jngton Hynes

NOES, 37. Ann-,nd Barnr;s, G. P. B..1rnes, \V. IL Blackley Boyd Butler Cqrter r:layton t:r}niel Dea~...Jn

DuLy J~dwards

Fry Grimstone I! ill K lso =:..::enny Kerr

Dr. Ken;in

1\Ir. ::\I tCgroarty ·l\Iaher Maxwell 2,1'1rg-an Kin1mo Petcrson Plunkett Russell, H. J\~. Rn· ·ell, W. A. Sizer 'reUman 'T0ZE.T

Walker, H. F. Walker, J. E. \Vienholt

'l'cllt :s: Brand Costello

PAIRS. AYES.

:\I!·. Collin:') Bulcock

l\OJC.-3.

2\Ir. ~VIoGre Atherton

:\lr. BRCCE (l'lrnnedy) [4.20]: A proposal pr1Yatc n10rnbcrs' day at such an

th0 se~sion is so extraordinary voice a protest ugaiust it. ~o think-no Qucen~lalld Govern-

rate-has cyer propos( d to such an early slagP. lt i<

n10-:\'l that private rncmbers should rPtnin ~ righL to initiate businc~s in thi·j H:o-:Fif'. Hon. rucn1bers opposite arc ahvays tall.:: in~ 1 bout non-party government. They sa v i he\' hcliL'Yt~ in it. The hon. mcrnlJf?-l' fo~· :Fa..,:ift,rn t;dks about non-party govcrn-lllent.

:\lr. iYIFsHOLT: You have ncvct· heurl me suy one ;,ord about non-parh~ g·ovcn11nent.

~Ir. BRlJCE: Privato mctnbers' day i::; the opportunity that hon. members hav8 of placinf: their own proposals be foro this House; but the Go,·crnmont ha.-e s'toppcd in and sa:v that they are going to deprive them of that opportunity. '\Vhero is tlv' reason for do in~- ~o? Arc hen. membe-r."" Ol)posltc honest in their suggestion·:. In r,_~.pect of r:on-party government?

Tlw S~~CRETAEY FOR P'CBLIC I:\'-STRL"CTIO:'\ (Hon. R. J\1. King, Lo[!unj [4.21]: l beg to move-

'· That the question be now put."

Mr. Bnue.]

604 Go~··Tccuwnt Business on Tl,ursdays. [ASSEMBLY.] Deceased Husband's, Etc., E:/1.

Question-" That put., (Jlr. [(,:ny'.s House divided:-

the q ucstion ?notion)-put;

be now and tl11•

Dr.

l\Ir.

::vrr.

AYF.S, 36. Annand Barnes, G. P. Barnes, v.·. H. Black!ey Boyd Brand Butler Cartel' Costello Daniel Deacon Du fly Edwards Fry Grimstone Hill Ke!so Kerr Kerwin

Barb :r Bedford Bow

NOES,

Bras•,:ington Bruce Cooper Dash Dunlop Fo\ey Hanlon Hanson Hynen Jones, A. J.

~\~r. King MacgroLrty Maher Maxwell ::\'fcrgan NimillO Peterson Plunkett

24. .:\Jr.

Rus. •ell, \Y. A. Sizer Tedman Tozer \V:clker, H. F. \\';dker, .J. L. \Vienholt

Trllcrs: Clayton Kenny

Kirv;an l\Iu\lan O'Keefe Pease Pvllock Sn1ith Wellin;:rton \Vi\ son \Vinst:lnlt?

Tcllcrc: Conroy Jone ., A.

PAIRS. AYF.S. NOES.

J.Ioore ~1r. Co1lins Hur.•Je!l, H. i\L Bukoeli:

Rc·oh·ed m the affirn1ative.

Question-" That the ret"ol uticn Ulr. Ii:in:t's motion) be agre~_d to "-I ·1t; "''d tlH• House divided:-

AYES, 37.

~lr. An nand Dr. Kerwin Barnes, G. P. l\Ir. King Barnes, W. H. ~\1acgroarty Blackley 1\Irrher Boyd Maxwell Brand ::VIorgan Butler Peterson Carter Plunkett Clayton Russell, '\Y. lt. Costello Sizer Daniel Tozer Deacon '\Valker, H. F. Duffy \\, ... a}ker, ,r. E. Edwards Warren Fry \Vienholt Grin1stone Hill Tfller.s: Kelso Nimmo Kenny Tedman Kerr

1\'()ES) 25 Mr. Barber l\Tr. l\lull:·n

Bow O'Keefe Rras.sington Pease Bruce Po!lock Conroy Smith Dash Stop ford Dunlop Wellington Folcy \?\nl~nn Hanlon \V'instanley Hanson Hynes Tellus: Jones, A. Bedford Jones, A. J. Kirwan

Cooper

PAIRS. AYES. NOES.

Mr. Moore Mr. Collins Russell, H. M. Bulcock

Resolved in the affirmative. '

DECEASED HUSBAND'S BROTHER MARRIAGE BILL.

SErm:D READING-RESU1IPTIOX oF DEBATE. Mr. BEDFORD (TVarrego) [4.32J: Whik

1·cceiving this Bill with sympathy, there is a great deal to be said about the objection raised by the hon. member for Flinders last night-the fact that it constitutes a rather dangerous precedent. I have not much respect for precedents myself. If they get in my way, and, if they get in the way of doing the right thing, then I think a thing becoming to the precedent itself is a swift kick in the pants. But the po·ition which has evoked this piece of legislation rather inclines one to take the extreme attitude of the judge with a great deal of sympathetic toleration. The evidence giYcn in this particular case-was, I believe, that the lady who had been for thirty·six years associated with this man as his wife and partner--

The SECR.llTARY FOR Prnr.rc Ixsn-..-c-.:nox: Those are the facts set out in the petition, but there is no evidence to that effect.

Mr. BEDFORD: The facts are, if the petition can be taken as correct, that the woman had no idea that after these thirt>:·-six years their association could Le broken up. The Attorney.General last night said that this was a means of preYenting a n1an bastardising-it -was not un eleg-.1nt wcrd-his own children; but there is orneihing more in it than that. The fact that the ladv Y;ho had been an honest. faithful partne,:, so far as we can ascerbin from the state-ment in the petition, r.lso deserved a tre· mendous amount of consideration, ,;hich this Bill will probably give to hPr

The Bill might go further. I wish, if it could, that it would wipe out th2 otigma of illegitimacy OH natnral children, \YC kEo1v-ing very well that the real stigma results from i'l18 necessities of the disposition of the propedy oE the father. The nal cauec of such a stigma on the child is th:~t it is b~

D:ce1sd Husba,~d's, Etc., Bill. [2 SEPTE:\IBEH.] Tolls on Road, Etc., B''l. 605

:"vir. POLLOCK (Gregory) [3.36]: The only reason I ha vc ri,;en to speak on this Bill is to en,-RESU:\IPTIOX OF DEBATE.

i\Ir. HA:\'L00; (Ithaca) [4.46]: A good deal of criticism has been le•·clled hy hor. mcmbcs opposite at the Labour Party becaus "'C O,Jpose this mea ·ure for the esbblishment of loll roads and bridges in Queensland. lion. nwn1bers arc not justified in ~aying t1J2t the opposition of this party is merely natural opposition to anything the GoYcrnment 1na~v propose. There is a very >ound case indeed to be made out in opposi-tion to the institution of toll roads and bridges.

Firs:·lv. we must admit th'it the motor ag' has made a great difference in ·reftard to our facilities for transport in the shape of ro< d., a nrl bridges. In days gone by any giYen road oe bridge could only be used b.v a sm ,[l percentage of the population; and

Jlllr. Hanlon.]

606 Tolls on Privately Oon,,L'itcted [_'\.SSEMBLY.] Road Traffic Facilities Bill.

all roads and bridges Wf'rc of greater importance to the people in the locality immediately sul"l·ounding them than thh were to the general run of peoph in the State. I admit that that has bec•n aherecl since the introduction of the motor cu as a cornmon 111eans of transport, P- burden on ratepayers in arca'3 where property was not highly valued, the Gvvfh· c )llU'rnf'd \Vith tlF propo·,'al under thl~ Bill to bnild two br1'lbf''' ac"T'"'~ ihc lh·]~banC' T~iYcr wit.lrin the City of Brich: ne. Lookin•{ at the B;ll as it ;s drafted. ancl li::-trning to the sp-eond readin~ S)r0ch of the :\lini tl'r and the d

Tolls on P!'ivately

608 Tolls on Printe11f Gonstrtteled [ASSE:\IBL Y,J Road Traffic Pacil;tics Bdl.

a10d it must also provide similar facilities on this side of the river to allow the holders of the franchise to harullc the traflic going across the bridge. The City Council will be compelled to cater for those who use the bridge b.v providing good roads leading up to it. Thoro is no JHoYision in the Dill to compensat) the Council for constructing those roads.

The satnc thing applies 1.vith respect to dw bridge acro the rin~r at Indooroopllly. The City Council must provide firot-class road;; loading up to the bridge Oll both sides of the rin•r. As the Citv Council is called upon to incur heavy e~pcnditnro in this regard. it should be ('onsiden d in the mat-ter. The Government hrwo no right to grant franchises of this kind against the will of the people.

\Ye might for a moment consider what happened when we had a toll bridge in BrisbanP. When I w.l>l quite• a boy, we had a toll on the Victnria Bridge; and the people of Brisbane very greatly obje,·ted to it. At that tirnc tho population of thi·- city v;it hin a fivo-milP radius of the GPncral Post Oflice wa'· somcwhcrp about 80.000.

f,t that time,. in t'hc day,; of horse trans-port, people liYing at an:? great distance from the city did not use Victoria Bridge to any grP1.t extent. Tho position is reversed to-day. With a population of 330,000. and wlwn rnc, ns t.f. conln1unication across the riYcr ar: hc,ing u.sctl by people fron1 dis-trict~ around Toowooruba and \Yarwir-k on the one · idc and down to the Tweed River on the other side the whole of these richlv populated distri(' nsC' our cross-riYcr bridgC. In the days of the toll river bridge when !'here WCrC 0!1 ]y 8Q.rd North BrisbanP. in this I-IDusc, on a 11ri, ate rncrnbcrs' da:v in the se'· ..,ion of 1PJ5, intro-ullred a F' oJution demanding- that some mea ' be talum bv the Gm·ermnent to rolie,-o the people of the burden of the Victoria Bridge toll. During his speech he pointed out that "The Vidoria Brid~e Act of 1893." \vhich prm·idcd for tolls ~to be levied on Victoria Bridge, vv·:ts pnssed in a panic by the Govc-rn1nent 0£ the day, and 1nB1nbers of the Governmer;t lat01· agrrcd it should llf'Yei' hnv,-:-, been passed. It was pojntcd out that· the old Victoria Bridg-e \vas destr .Jyed by the 1233 flood, which was a period of bank smashes and scandals and a great deal of unemployment. Panic-stricken

[ 1vl r. I1 anlon.

by the o;tote of affairs, the Government built the present Yictoria Bridg-e and imposed tolls upon it; but) .although the bridge \V~ abhorrent the toll . ystcm was to !he people of Brisbane cycn ill those days.

It is al.:;o noticonblc that tho reports of dC'putatioHs fron1 the Korth and South Bri:-;bano f'11ur:eiL'~, which \Yaitod on the then l-{onle s,_crctary or:king relief from the toll sys' n1, ftrcssed the inconvonioncc of tho toll svstcm •.s ''-'ell as the unfair methcd of t'~txatron. Tlll re '\YEIS a considerable delay to tran-:,port, boc:1use cYcry vehicle passing over the bridg0 had to pull up in order that the toll collector could collect the toll ticket. Just from that point of view one \.'vnders ~~·~ t \\'otllri ha.11pen if every rnotor car pn~ ing· o\ er Victoria Bridge to-day had to pull up aml tender a toll tick

Tolls on P1

610 Toll.' 01" Priv1tcly Coi '/; u+ i [A:SSE~IBLY.J Road Traffic Facilii:es Bill.

a Brisbane rnen1ber of Pvdian1cnt in it. The hon. gentleman has not bc,•n looking up the LJHtter.

The SECRETARY FOR R.uL WAYS: You arc absolute!]· \'Tong there; thoH· people !iYed in Brisbane, but they represented the couu-tr::.

:\

Toll.c< on Privately Constructed [2 SEPTE:HBER.] Road Traffic Fac:w:c·; Bill. 6ll

taken place elsewhere in Anstralia on the toll syc.tem. \Ye did have a toll system for a short period in this city.

Tho object of the Bill is ,·cry definitely recapitulated by its title. It is described a:;-

"A Bill to authorise the construction and rnaintenance of certajn 1 oacl traffic facilitic< bv private persons. and the levying and collcctiug theret. wlwn the l'Oad"\ in nritain \vCro built an-· Illrtin-Ltin-:-d bv toil s iem, therl' \n:rc toll L ~~L:l CYC'l~L\' few Jnilc~. and the san1c applied to Lrid,~· "'· Ihe idc'a at th2t tiine \~ 1~ tht-c tho~;:; ,.:ho u'-'ed the highways and other tu:dhc conY('Ilicnccs should pa:- for thern. Uradua1ly it bccan1c IHanif most intimately affected ar•' even Jenied ~t voice in det'crn1ining :'LH·h a n1atter. Ever siunc local government instituted ~a::; a rnat~cr of fact. ever t 1"12 in~ti-tution of any form Of gover:nn1c11t in this. countr;y-roa

4312 Tolls r;n Privatel?; C'on,tructed [ASSJ::"\IBLY.j Roa(1 Traffic Facilities Bill"

tuld rnac1c lho snbjcct of negotiation many different directions.

The :,1ini;t"cr, in the course cf his speech. statAd that one of the jmtiflcdions for such a rnul,,nro is that private enterprise could iinancc project' ''hen public enterprise could not. Yi e know that to b • perfectly absurd, and I am sure that hon. members· gcnernily are in l'_,recn1e11t with 1ne \vhon I sav that. if a propo~ition is sDund fro1n the pOint of view of a private cou1pany, nnd a company is .. ~Jlc to rai"lc 111011ev on the sccur:itv o£ tlw r'~Yf'l1UP to be deriv~·d fron1 th~ toll," a local author ~tv coulJ raise monev on tho sa1ne ba. · s. ·The public interest· would also be :

Tull'i o;c Priv2tely Cons! uctcd [2 SEPTB:iiBER.] Road Traffi'' Faciliti' 1 li'ill. 61~

:,ir. WILSO::--J: As m;c who has taken a rInt'fl ad,-i~ablo to proceed \-v1: h the n1ajm.' t:-dtCl11C'.

In 10.30 the pr0scnt Gon•r])Illdlt appointed n board of inquiry, cons'isting of 1'rofcssor I-Iawken, \vho Yras a rnernbor of th0 fil~~t

61-1- Tal! on P1 imt•~';; donstnw!etl [_c\SSE::'TBL Y.] Road Traffic Facilities Bill.

hands, "nd, in ciTe: ~, inflicting another tax on the con1n1unitv. and I do not think the sv:-.:t-ern will be a ~stF.:cc~.-.; . . Some rdcrcncc has l•ccn made to the tolls

nn the :Ylount Tambourine road and tho L· 'ianholmc toll bridg·e. In the latter case I think the Minister ·;tid thA toll would pay for the c 1st of the bridge in about three yC'a ~·:;.

Th__, SECRETAEY FOR RAILWAYS: Perhaps four :;oal'::;. ):""( "·

:Yh. \YIL~OX: Doe. the hon. member not n~ ink thnt it >rould be fair to relieYc

rcsirlf•nh of ... Jme of the taxation on them?

Th•, SEu:t~· .. \RY FOR EAILWAYS: Yes. That i · the object of tho toll sy .• tem.

:Vir. V\'TLSOK: The Go,~Nnment ha Ye not reduced tJ,e taxation up to elate. If tlw argurn( nt of the :::Vlilli:-_tcr m('~.ns an:vthinv; at all, th· 1 that toll is too high and th· taxaUon j.-; too hP:n~:v upon the people in that neighbourhood. Tlwy ha·. e to prey hncl tax, Joeal nP.thorit_,- ,rates, and other tax,•"J. and h.:vr> io ~onll:ilmtre b,- av of toll the

arnount did not care a rap about the scttlc·rs.

[iiir. Wilson.

Mr. \VILSO:'\ : If it had not been for the Labour Govf'rnwent the Xorth Coast Rrril~ >Va'' lino >Youlcl not ha,~e Lecn constructed.

Mr. ?\nnro: At a cost that will not return i11torest on tLe money involved.

Tho St:rRETARY FOR R.ULY'.'.\.YS: It hr;.-, been found nt'ccssar.v to >.vrite off a portion of the Cfl)lital incleLtednins of the railw: y because of the ex:ccs·,ivo cost of er particular bridge. It will operatP over the \\·hole of (~ucen,land; and for hon. Pwmber' opposite to concentrate chc1r crlticl~n1 of thP rnutsurc becauso it will enable the Kangaroo Point bridge to be con::;'tructcd i" very mi·JcacEng.

8on1e of the speakers said ihat the prin-c iplcs undL'rlylng tho Bill cm1anated frmn thr {'ark ages: but tho~o ho11. 1ne1nbors ap~1arPntl.~ fail to roco,gnisc that the conditwno of t;'d'lspm·t to~day ar" vastly differer;t from ~~hat theY were 1nanv ,r-ru~ ago. \Ve l-aY-~ to meet tire alterecl cori:ditiono as they exist to~d c v. It is unnccossan~ to remind the I-iou:-e that tho methods ·of t.rans'portation lnYc alterpr] entirely during the ]not ten, fifteen. or tY,enty ye.:-trs. Elnd our legi,lation must be altered accordingly. Tho methods of tnnsport lo~day cannot Le compared >nth the ~.CJ~callccl dark age'. They d'•' more efficient and much quicker. They naturally must be .. o. if we .are to keep pace "' 1th the progrc~; of transport. in. other c?unbiP.s. anJ if we an~ to rnarntan1 efficiency rn indu-tr.'

Tolls on Privately Constrlictecl [2 SEPTE~1BER.] Rr;ad Traffic Facilit'ies Bill. 615

:

6lG 'l'olls on Priv Jt lj Constnrte l [-~SSE:\lBL Y.] Road Traffh Facilities Bill.

\Yhen the bridge wets completed, a tender of £ll.OOJ \1 a> acc0pt

Tol' on Pr:,, 1tcly Oonstructccl [2 SEPTE:\IBER.] Rand Traffic Fac:Zitics Bz'll. 617

but he \Yas an adyocatc of it on the ground of expediency. !lnd that under the existing r )nditions a Bill of this kind \\as a good thing. lie plainly stated that, if the Go-vennnc:nt felt inclined to bui]J a bridge, the:· could build it; but, if a local authority \Yanted t·) build a bridgE') it, tov, could build it; but, if neither wanted to carry out the ''· ork, then he adYocatcd tlut it should be left to lll'i\·ato cnt('l'prisc. rrhat is a Yicions principle) ~'-~d one to \Yhich I an1 opposed on YCl"Y vood grounds. Either a Jtnn1unity, ·whether in Brisbane, Coon1era,

or cl!:-eY\.·herc, (an afford to build a bridge, or it cannc t afford to build a bridge. Doe11 anybody hnaginc for a moment that, if a pnblic or semi-public body cannot finance a lH'LlJO.·>ition by borro\\'ing n1oncy, spending it, and coll0cting the returns, any private iucliviclual will take it on? It is certain that J,o 'uch thing is likely to take place. The C-oYcr~-.:ment r11igln C!_ldcayour to -r-un,·ey that idea or to conYin '; but the,\· are not likely to sec any-thing of tbf, kind come about. M.ony is either nlentifu1 or it jg scarce. The Trea-'UJ r s~vs that it is difficult to secure: and he can furnish plenty of argurnCilt...-3 to- back np that tab~ll1CTJt. IIon. rnombprs opposite haYc aqrued that. r_1nncy is p1cnti~·uL and will b.,• available for these projcc •. s. They ccrtainl:, conYeycd the idea th t some of the ."eh ernes \YC ·~ already cut and d ri{ d, and it ~~as only ncce~3J.l'y to p1af'e this Ineas-Jro un the statute book to n1akc all the necessarv n10HC'Y asailablc. ~

The very same ki1:d of argument was used •·hen the IndustriD As1;istanco Bill was

being di"cm,ccl in this House. It was c:ailnlcl that. when that measure VNts placed upon the cl >.tutc book, a number of people and con1pani1 s wvuld take ad.-antage of the a,:-'}: ta.nce offered. and secondary i11dustrics would spring up in all directions. \Ye know \Yhat has hrtppcncd eince the passage of that Bill. The only body tlut made any inquiries after the passage of that meamre was the Renown Rubber Company, and we know rh' efforts madp by that bod:·.

The hon. member for Oxley, amongst others, j nsrificcl the imposition of a toll on a hricl;;c by the argument that we had to pay a toll to send a letter. It is quite true that ., c do; but the hon. member should know that. 1vl1cn letters \Ycro sent by priYato enterprise the,: cost 6d., ,,·hcreas under a lioYc-rnnH~nt rnonopoly the cost ·was ld., and •,he letters were ent a greater distance for that amount than thev were when sent bv ]Fi•;a,tc c·rH·trpri:;;P. " ..

~Ir. ~DL10: The taxpayers bave to bear the lms.

:1\lr. \VIXSTA::\'LEY: The taxpayer gets the berwfit. and he has to pay for it. \Ye 'oulcl not ,,ssess the exact amount that each indiYidual in the community has to Jny.

The hon. member for Albcrt stated that some people had to contribute to the cmt of a bridge that thev did not use; but in a great n1any jn~tancc"3 people haYo to pay for things b,"causc they arc compelled to use them, They arc not the only people who benc6t. The hrm, member aho endeavoured to convoy the idea that the bridge O';cr tbc Coonwra RivPr ancl the bridge at Logan-bolme was of no advantage to the people in that community·. I do not agree with that conte,tion. There arc other pcoph \vho me the b,·iclge besides the people in the

neie,l1bourhood; Jut the lH:>"Jplc jn tho neigh-bourhcod Lonolit very largely by the con-stmction of the bridge. The point is that until recent y,'ars, ~nhen the bridge was comtructcd, the proccr ds from the sale of the ferr~ right., were £90 per a::1nu1n; but, \Yhen the sale of thv'Cl rights mounted to £4,000 pn annum, it was quite c-cidcnt tbat tlw construction of the bridge l.'.'as v;·orth \vhile.

It has been stated that the bridge was con, strncted bv the Main Roads Commission, ,, ic'' is roll< 'ling a toll. The levying of a toll r:,,,, be objc:·tionable, but the objection to u. toll is lessened by the fact that the local nuthority, J\Iain Roads Comrnlssion, or the G"ycrnmcnt collect the toll, and not a pri-vaJp company \Vhich has be' a ~jTanteJ a franchise for the purpose. Th_·t is :my argu-rnent against a toll. Like the hon. mcrnber \Yho has just resumed his c'at. this Brll does not satisfv me because tho•·e is no limitc tion b thr• te;ms of the franchise.

The SECREL\RY FOR RAJLWAYS: That is in the DilL

:\lr. \YI::'-JSTA:.JLEY: There is no limit to n,nything in the Bill. It is utterly impos-cible to get to bedrock upon which ono might glean information :>S to !he conditions on which an:· public utility may be corLtructed uwlcr this Bill. vVhen tbc Bill become; ]"·,·· nnd i·, nlaced upon the s! ~tnto-book, pro-po5als will be invited in r0ga.rd t(; cer1 ain utiliti( ., ; :.tnd the GoY ern or in f''Jnn(~il i~ going to decide cYerything after the Bill is l"'f'ecL That is Yery unsatisfactory to the cn 1 J,!nurJ1ty, aad is certainly llOt sntisfn~:tory to horL n•cmbers on this sick of the HouB~. Ir 1:> i~~ 1nuch the sarne position as the earth, \Yhieh was mpposed by the ancients to b>• supported on the sbouldec·; o£ .Llas, who was supposed to he standing on the back of a hutl0, which had no visible means of 'llpport. This Bill certainly has no Yisible rncans of ';Up11ort.

One cannot in anv way find out what the n-sults of the Bill' are really going to be. It does not matter what the 1\iinister cays, or what assurances be gives to his own supporter·, they must be taken for what thc·v "re worth. for hon. members can rest as ·Ltred tbat, after the Bill is placed on the statute book, legal definitions and inter-pretations will be placed upon its provi-'iom. It does not matter what the :Minister ma·: ny her

ten toll roads 81Hl bridges in other countries benefit the holders of the franchise, and not the co1nmunity.

The SEcrtETARY FOR R .. -uL\VAYS: 'rhat is not so in An1crica.

Mr. \YINSTAKLEY: In Ameri

To/ 73 on Privately Constructed [2 SKcTDIBER.] Road Tiajfic Fariliti. s B ·n. 619

others · v that those who use a bridge or road ·hOtild pay for it. As a matter of fact, the rH ,JlJlo who use a bridge or road ue not th.• onlv ones who benefit by it. EYcryboclv kno" ,, that tho working· men who hne li,-cd at K.1.ng·aroo Point for the last forty Y' "'' ha Ye had to pay a toll to cross the riwr, whethN th y liked it or not.

The S£CRENRY FOR RAlLW'cYS: How do they gl· Jt.l'L "'s no\v?

~lr. \YINSTA~LEY: They get a'.-:ross on the fcrr·.

The s_ :'RETARY FOH R.\.IL 1NAYS: Do they not h, .. ve to pay to get aCl'O .g?

i\Ir. \YIXSTA::'-JLEY: Yes; but thirb· years at;o the people who bought land oi1 l{angaroo Point were 1ed to bclievP that wi .. hin a Ycry fc,v a beidgo would bP cnnstrreted acro::,::: riycr and thcv \\-nuLl L~· able tn get. acro~s free i'n~teaJ or' having to paT. \\'hon we had free fenies. to sonw i'xtent the fr c -ferries enhanced the vctlu• of tl>' hnd O•l the othce side of the riYH. L~nd "'."'worth more because people did not ha Ye tn pay to cro."s the river; but., when they ··ere C\:11lpcllcU to pa:· on the fcrr~·, appeal:-;. \YCl'f' llHldc agaiu~t the valuations bccau~e o£ the incnm"ed cost of getting acroc,, t'1e rive:'. Some of the valuations Vi/ere }Jhcld. Sorne of them got thcrn rcc1ucc·d for th·· cxprr''', rcai.Dn that. having to pay to cro·,e the river, that reduced the \·a!uc c.f ti1•~·ir bnd. Kohodv will denv that. if a brid~t•· is nla·de acro·s~ the ri\·er at KalW>ll'OO Point. those who have land con· t lguou~~ ·lwr ~to v. ill benefit by it, an cl, thcrP· fore, they oug-ht to pay something towards the co3t of the bridgt;.

It ha' '· on said that only those who u•,e the bri•k•· ,honlcl pay the toll; but tho'c r:ecpl·) an' not the only ones who benefit by it. Xu bPt'tf'r cxnruph) f'an he g1Ycn than the ::\ orth Shore bridge in Sydney. Ever since iho foundation stone was laid five or f'ix year..; r· (~o 0state agents hELve been point-ing out how land value' arc~ going to be cnhan"' cl and th •t 'l'rcat benefits would accrue to pe.,plo on the North Shore imme· d;~,teh· the hridf[e ,,-as completed. The rcclcNninQ· feature about it 'is that 'tho people YYiJo liYe on tbe North Shore, who live in Hw be1H:fitcd ar''2, havP to contri-bute one.thircl toyyards the conBtruction of tlw lwidge. which 1 think is fair and rea· 'onable. This i.s what Sir Arthur Rickards, who is • ompetent to judge>, said about it-

.. There js no greater factor governing incr, a"' in land values than the spend· in~, cf hn:xe sums in developn1cnt schen1es. The spending of millions o£ pounds on the harbour bridge and, the approximate expcuditure of £102.000 on concrete roads throughont the ::\'orth Shore will vitally affe~~ t property values in the choicest parts of the North Shore line, where pn··•ent·clay prices will be doubled in a fe,,~ years' time."

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Instead of that. they h.1ve come down.

::\Ir. WI:'JSTAKLEY: Thev have come down from what thcv were; imt there are quite ~ou:nd reasons for their coming down, and there are just as good reasons for think· ing the. iYill go up again. The increase in land vabes during the past fiye or Bix ycn·s in Sydney has been more i han what the bridge has cost. \Vhether the Minister belieYes that or not does not matter;

but the Ya luc of the bridge has gone on rhc~ la1ld Yalncs; and it is onlY right th:lt tho~e ,_,lllC'C'l'nt'd shou1d c1ntributc son1cthjng to\\'urJ.:-i the cost of construction.

\Yhro t ·we arc doing now js passing panic L gi~,~ation in quite a nuinber of di1 t:di

620 Tol 1> on Pr:,·ately Const,·ucted [A~::)E'.lBLY.] Road Traffic Pacil:ties Em.

(m ne here to look at our countrv. \VC kno\Y that they lwve n1oney to spe1l'd . .and we rTlcmnc thcrn; but, if v.re do .oot tL il t thcn1 fairly and reasonably, \YC' cannot t"·:vc t thcn1 to coHtinue com-ing here. I that the thoLF mds of visitm·s who reTe a1- th-~ fJres,....nt n1orncnt fron1 the other St;:tc;; and ~~('"V Zeal ~ncl \Yill leaYe a fair an1onnt of money in 0uecnsla.nd, p~rticThdy in Brisbane; and I think it is on1

0 fair thc,t

thc\c vd1o clo con1e here a~ viE-itOi'S ::-~:oulcl lH• trcatC'd faidv and rca~orw.~_.l·.. Thnt 1:ill not be thC case if all the roads fire going to be toll ro--d'"' rhcc:c people ha '>'l' to pay leYics 1vhercv('r they Q'O,

Another ohjution I have to rhr .~ roll roads i:_ thr..t not merPly intcn_Y:·t and reeL ll~ption will have to b~~ paid by the people. b.._1t. the cost of collcctmg the tolls abo. It is the n1o~t dun1s.~· and expensive 1nerLod of raising rCYf'nuc thQ.t U)nld b~: irnagi~'l,'ll. The "\linister himself told us that the amount d tolls coilectcd on the JI.Iount T>trbourinc road 1Lt-; £633 and the co3t of {'Ollect~on £204. If it is going to cost one-third of the ·oml rcYcnuc to collect that revenue. if n os PJJlng to ('0c.;t one-third of the irnc·rc.:;;r aud 1·.cleu1ption on any utility, then we• arP pains~ in for prcttv c-cpcnsivc luxuries . .and {'Crt.ainly scnJ:1Ct11it~g different frc. n tlwt wcthod of collection will have to be dcvi"·d.

Th~ hon. n1C'n1ber for Tomnbul nC'inn1 d C;Jt tluH the n

'1 ollc· on PrZva'cly Constructed [2 SEPl'E}IB~R.] Road Traffia Faciliti~s Bill. 621

undL·r a franchise. By this rneanR priYntr· n1oHe >.Yill con1c into the Statf'. Is it net to rhZ, aclnwtr g"

622 Tolls on Priv.?tely Constructed [AS~E}IBLY.] Road Traffic Facilities Bill.

obt 1.ining n1one.y by false pretencc3. If a man did that in civil life he would be ; rosc-cuted, but p1tblic bodies do it. Cli < mrsr they do not say that they have no intf'·'y. Assuming that certain "\vorks arL nccessar'i-- in (_,Jnnu> tion with bridge'\ throughout 'QtF'cn:>ill lo~r> -t-ho ·work \Yhich the:· arc at present occu-pit~d in doing for th0 :\lain H.onds CoLnni::' ays and handed them ovce

Tolls on Pr'w~ne Cit' Cour.c·il \\·ere to build the Kan&.oroo Point bridge-it should haYe been built insu ad of 'the Grc'y ~trcet bridgc~and, if ;-_ toll is to be collected-to ·.·hi eh, I say, l .-Ill net opposc•d-let the Brisbane City Cou,ncil collect the toll and make the profit. I am, hmreYer. opposed to offering fran-chii3cs to co1npani_ s to cnablr~ them to exploit • :,e people of this cotwtry.

Close to th" borders of Queensland we have the :'\orthern rivers; and there a1·e

]so cenain portions of this State wheL·o there are roads which are largely used for rourist traffic. I differ from the ho11. mem-ber for Queenton in that I believe that, if P'''Jplo haYc the money to enable them to tra ye] ronnJ the State by motor car 8 s tmuists. th •y ought to expect to pay tolls ,;n roads that aro built for the purpose of f'JHLblin" !hem to do so. In the old coaching

:it '.1·ould haYO been a curse to charge to pt·1p 1 _: in .a country like Au;,tralia;

bnt. with the introduction of the motor ( 1r. ,YC haYC \YCUlthy people, SOHW of tlH'IH yer:, v:culthy, coming to this State by n1otor ~r; hnd it ',\·odd help t118 shire councils

and rdieYO tiwir ratepayers of some of the burden of their rahs \i\'hnrc Pxpcn:'3:ive bridges UI'C llCCC;;.sar~v if t"hCi"i(' tourists paid tolls ur>oH thc·m. I c 'rtainlv lwlievc that tolls >hould be chan~cd ~.,;hr.:re ,,:c have large tourist traffic.

The SELRET.\RY FOR H.AIL'XAYS: I-:r.~ar, lH_""tr:

::\ir. 11R-CC~E: There, however, I a5 that tl1(~ diffindrv has been rnct bv the COin-Jui~',.lon(•r o( ~,1ain l{oads .. ar..d Up ..-in North Qncen:'land n1any fine bridges ha Ye he·. n made ~,\':lg'f';" of workeJ, h'lYL boon reduced with that objec-hYf' but here \Ye have

624 Tolls on P1ivately Constru~te:l [ASi3E?.IBLY.] Brad TJ·affic Fcnilit> B?"il.

Those ,li,C the people whom vve \\~ant to anrl as:::i~t. The on1) bright prcs-

P 1wld oPt jn tl1c Blll is to cerl-,1in .. go-getters." 'They will have almost unlimited

:)·.v,;r,:, to exploit the people.

.'\nothcr v.-bich is not. proYidcd for 111 Rill is rate of pay and condi-com the WOI'kers who will h' omplo_ cd l~1 th,; con~trPction of these facjlitics. Such provisions should be made. 'Why this con, til~HD l ,_g·c-old blllldnef---> of the rl'ory Part:· tn the int01Tst~ of tho worker._;? \Ylt:T in3crt all provi.,ions for the benefit of the " g·o-,gcLtcr:::;,'' and none for th \,·orkcrs'? I sn~t-.( c,t t~1at proYi~iou:3 should bo inserted ID t[j,, Bili JWw,·iding for the protection "f the wn•·es of th0 w'>rkcn by the Indu;trial Court, and that 1t guarantee he gi...-cn to rhc workrrs th { thev will not be rcrnoved frorn the ambit o( tbc court. During the last election ca1npalgn the Go\·crnrrlcnt gave a guarantee to the workers that thev would have tbe full protect ion and b cncfit~ of the court : but jn the two session~ of Parliament s'ince then thov h:· vo removed 40 per cent. of the workers fro;n the ambit of the court. \Yhy do the (;overmnollt not give a definite guarantee that the workers c•ngaged on those facthtws \vill be ·afPguardcd against the " go-getters" and r:ot !J,, removed from th~ protection of thP court'?

Ag-ain1

con~idcration should be given for the ~rnaintnnance of :;killed rates of pa) for this rarticular clab:3 of \YOrk. Hon. YllPll111ers oppo,itc often state that the unforttmatc, thin,O' _,.bout tb0 Labour Partv is that they ag-re~ fo Industrial Court awar~l-, and uniforn1 rates of pay, irrespective of ability. \Yhy not insc:rt : pro\-ision in this Bill that lTil~n of special skill and ability shall be pro-tect"J' It is all vcr" well for tho Mini·>tcor to sav "That >Yill be done; you can rest nssurecd of that"; but, if the Government sur-rour:d tlw .. g-o-gcUPrs " with :::.afcguards, v, hy rn' the yyorl;cr' also? \\'hv thic continual r.- to con~id0r t11c VYorl~~crs a;:; a lnnnan unit our social life? Why is it that men who work with their hands n,rc to be treated ;1o: r:-10ugh t~.J'Y \\ere not n1cn at .ull?

Thcr.::- should als'o be a further pro vi· ion against the irnport;.t:on of cn1ployees in the case cf ovpr;;·~ a invc·ctors securing a frf:.nchise for a facilitv

::\Ir. G. P.· RmxEH: That is proYid~cl for. ?.~r. HRL~CE: There ];3 a pro>:ision; bnt

it i-3 not J. complete provision There is no rJrrson '- hy itnporh_.d employee·-:; shonld not he a 1··,olutclv debarred from these works. The construCting cnginc"rs of the Sydney Harbmu bridg" said they hotd nnt seen any finer bodv of >Yorkers th'm arc employed on tbat bridg-e. TlPt should be mfficient for the Covcnnncnt to in'3~Tt F clau--e prohih~ting t 11C irnpori .'lt1on of. '.' ork('r.- frorn OYP~~{''1ltlcn1Cll, "''Ye arc Irtf'n1bcrs of i.he GoYe-riuncnt, and "\\TC' can scc~n'l' a franchise for you if you \Yill put ~-our rnoncy bebind this bab-,T company we ha.-e formed." It will be ·nmcmbcrcd that the C!lpital of the company "as £75, and that after paying

Tolls on P1 ivatery Construct< tl [2 SEPTE~IBER.] Road Traffic Pad lilies Bill. 625

people who haYe the audacity to mako sug-gestions again~t other people. Here is a clear-cut proposition, where members of the Governrnent Party form a cornpany, and where the Govcrnrncnt come along, either in conjunction with them or following with the knowled;e they had, and frame a Bill with S;Jocial proYisions to exploit the Crown or, in legal phraseology, "Our Lord the King."

The Bill will not l'csult in benefit to the people of Queensland. As I said earlier in rm· address, I feel sm·e the Labour Partv will c tn·,- the b.~Lw. It is a little bit o'f \Vindo>', ~hcssing fo"r the next election; but befc re the present GoYernment h ne done anything tlw.·: will have lost control of the Gonmncnt benches.

Km,· ·,,·e have :'ot the Industries .Assistance Commission, and its report will not be in until this session closes. JYiemborc of the Government Party will g·o round the country during clccLion ti1ne and say, "Ladies and Gentleman, we will build bridg·es that will gi.-e employment to the workei'S. 'vVo wiil bring capital into the country. We appointed an Industries Assist years a~o I p:aYe evidence before the Cro-.;s H.ivcr Con1Iui·~ ,·'ion on the questjon of the construc-tion of a bridge; and I firmly believe that

had ,-;onH~ influence upon the lncrnbcrs of the Cl'OS3 lli·n:r Connnission bcc:::tll~e Jf theil' common sense and ability. I was elected as a member of Parliament by the people of m:: electorate on an adult franchise. and lH'ior to n1y con1ing here I stated, as I have done dt1rin~ the fourteen yea--•, I have been in the HoZcsc, that I stm;d first and fore-most as a roprcsenta tiv.; of the souls of the r,eoplc re iding in rny electorate, and. that hcin.~ my vit~l principle, I mu::1t be~ guided by It. I ga:ve evidence before the Cross Hh·er Commission with the object of pro-' icling facilities for the people of Kurilpa to '"o.-c about the city and get to other part; of dw ~ta:·~!. Kurilpa is :-ituatcd in a pocket, . t·d there 1" only 0110 1ncans of getting frorn J\ to the city, and that is across Victoria !lndg. If \Ve had a flood like '"'' had in :393, which sw,pt Vicbria Bridge away, m:: people would b,, icolated. 'l'here would he no opportunity for them to get into the city

626 Tolts on PriV"'tc'y CJn3tru:c'cd [AS.:'E}IBLY.] Road Traffic Facilities Bill.

city. \Yithout c:ro:'s-rivcr facilities tlw pcoph could not go to their "' ork or get back borne withlu ~-. ~ c:a~onablc tin1c. At the prl'sent time i!Je,- have only one bridge· over which they ctn~ paes. Tuc other '""~ty of arc they He\:c::.:wry ·: If t:: ~y art~ ncccssar~, \vho is going to provjJp th~m?

In 1ny opinion) four bridges are necE -~.sary at the present til1le for the ordinary development of BrdJanc-fint the Indooroopilly bridge, se(>Jndl v tltc St. Luci,~-l-1111 i'~llCJ bridgt-'. thirc!l:· · the Kangaroo l'oint bridge, and fon: thlv the Lot bridg2 ~cading to \Yel11r.g-to;t Pt;int and ClcYeland. ln rny opinion. tl:e~G fnur bt·idg ~ s.huuld be con::;irnetcd. I do llOt know anything about any pre·

d jJhn. lf l thought there w'" ':hich was not aboveboard, I

the Bill. That is whv 1 wi~d-1 to to the powers of the a·~vernor in If thes(\ bridges arc ncce:5' _try-

and hon. me-mbers httvG cconcedcd that some of th' -~n ar,_:-~who is guing to build dll'IH '! Ca 1 the CoY..:nlUlt:nt build thon1? Cun the local authorities !Juild them:

GOYER0:.1IEXT :\IE.,IBER3: 1\:o.

]'>Ir. FEY: If they cannot, can thev be l_,nilt b~v· ind;Y1d1..1-al cihzt'l~ '? If they~ ~H, nccess, ry £-" the safety of thn people and the norrrw.l cxn- nsion of the ci.ty, then \Yl' mu t 1

Tolls on Pricately Urnstructed [2 S.:_PTE)IBER.] Road 1'raf!ic Facilities Bill. 627

possibility of men and women being pre-cipitated to a watery grave. I will never be one \> ho will advocate the ferry s:y stein as against Lridge traffic. I would not care if the 1vholc population was ranged against me, I would still advocate that system of transit which provides the speedier and greater measure of safety. All ferry traffic was wspended during the fresh in the Bris-bane River earlier in the year. Why? Eocause it \Yas un,afe for them to attempt to cross the ri,-cr. Had they attempted to do so it is probable that both boat and occupants would have been lost. It seems to me that at thic stage of our development the people of Queensland should take stock of the position. It is neceHary to exercise foresight in planning for the future; and in formulating a [Jlan of bridges we must have regard to the normal growth of population. If it is agreed that certain bridges are neces-sary, 1Ne ce1n no··; consider the question of who shall pay for them. To me it seems a question of either compulsory taxes on property or voluntary talk Let me illus-trate my argument as to the exorcise of an option in this way. The people at St. Lucia, whe:t·o I haT\' spoken on many occasions, are wholeheartedly in fayour of a bridge in place of the existing ferry.

:vir. I-IANLON: Don't you know that the Bill prohibits a bridge at St. Luci-t? It c·a" only be built by paying compensation to the Indooroopilly people.

:Ylr. FRY: Let me assure the hon. momLer that I do not propose to prejudice the interests of my people. This Bill has yet to go through the committee stage, and I shall safegmud the inter~ .ts of my people at all otagcs. If the residents of Kurilpa desire to go to Ir doomopilly or to St. Lucia. 1vhich is only a distance of 300 yards, it is neces-sary for th,·m, if they do not crO'S the river, to travel round via Victoria Bridge, a dif=-tance of over 3 tniles. Even in normal cir-cumstanc", if the ferry is stopped for one clay in the year it is ncces·ary for Kurilpa 1'(' -irlcnt~. j£ cannot travel tl1c 300 yards to St. Lucia by boc.t, to take a roundtbout r""ad snch ns I lL~YC' i:Hli-eatcd. I cwnot oppo.;e a bridge if it is going to giYo to tho-· · people the facilities that will make the district progress; and I shall not do so irresnective of \Yhat Government mav be in pow~r, because prin1arily I am hcr'B to represr·1t m:- con•tituenb, and secondly to reprccent the party.

Let ns consider the case of a man who travt 1s by tran1. B~, going over a bridge at Karwaroo PoiHt he will probably save one or two sections that he would ordinarily pay if travelling by tram. So the worker actnai!y saws twopence c:1ch way or four-pence a day, which memw 2s. a week. As I said before, if you take 2s., 3s., 4s., or 5s. a week off a mar.'s wages by way of tram fares, you reduce his income by that amount.

The Government should, first of all, get into con,ultnti0n with the local authorih before builcling anv br:cl::;c or other facility. I am 0]1]J< o,ed to the GoYernmont acting in this matter without getting information from the k~:tl CJthol'ib·. no matter v:here that authoritv mav be.', A local authoritv is a sub-dq,~rbncr;t. d the Government. ·It has no nown· except the power given to it by Parliam('nt; and, whether it be at Thursdav Is!anrl. at Mackay, or at any other place, the Government should consult the local

authority as to whether a bridge is desirable. where it should be located, the design and cost of the bridge, and the conditions of management before doing anything in the matter. If the Bill provides for all this-and I understand that the Labour Partv. bv interjection, say it does provide for the: c things--

Mr. PoLLOCK: We say it does not. Mr. IV. FoRGAN SThii'fH: We will move an

,mendment in Committee to provide for that.

Mr. FH.Y: No Government should ignore a local authority which it has created. Local authorities ha;-e been constituted to control these things, and the central Goverrnnent should consult the local authority on . all matters ·shich tend for the developmcr:t of the particular area.

The SECRETARY FOR R..nL WAYS: ::\o Jcc,d authority has objPcted to the BilL

:'vlr. FRY: What I am arguing is sound in principle. By that means there would bo removed from this Bill all the" c evils which the Labour Party say it contains. It 11 ould remove from the Bill all question of exploitation.

:11r. PoLLOCK: Do you believe in the pro-vision for the calling of tenders?

Mr. FRY: I thank the hon. momb"'>' for Gregory for that interjection. Th.J.t is a. point that requires consideration. If the Gm·o_·nmem prepare plans and call ior tendero, they .ne restricted to the abilit·; of their owE architectr, but, if they ask f< 'r proposals, they arc likely to got -propo' al.; from thf' best bridge architects in the world. I rent to America, where there are experts ;,, concrete, to got the design of a bridge 1.-hich had been built across one of the rivers in America. They very generously and with-out charge sent me blue prints arid details of the constr"ction of a hridge 1vhich could be constructed hero at very low cost, and which for all practical purposes would be mitable for the next fifty years, or the next century. Ane· Government and any indi-,·idnal wodd be swpid if they restricted their own activities. Any man who tries c,:> place him,elf in opposition to his own ac:tivity is restricting the essence of manhood

£28 Toll8 on Road, Etc., Bill. [ASSE:iiBLY.]

of citiz~nship in its broadest seme~-are pre-pared to do the work under an equitable franchise and in harmony with the local authorities, then the;: should be permitted to do so. It comes down, then, to offering the ritizens either a compulsory tax on their home··· or a YOiuntarv tax for the use of the briclr;e. After all,' the u.'e of a bridge is purely the use of a commodity. So long as the bridge does not rc•strict the free pa~':3.'li~e of naYigation, and cornplics with all the essentials of a brjc1gc for a n:10dern cit:, there sc0n1s nothint:; to quibble about; and the thing narrows itself do·.vn to the ques-tion of vchether it is going to be built by the present Government Ol' by the Labour Go-vernment. It seems to me there is very little in it apart from that. I "tust first consicler that my people and the people on lhc St. Lucia siue of the riv 0 r need means bv which thcv can mo,·e freelv from one si'de of the ri~er to th0 other. "I also tak2 the view that the citv of Brisbane need .. more bridges because ,';f the winding nature of tho river. These bridges are r-c,scntial for the proper do,·elopm~nt of the city.

I am going to support this Bill; and I hope that, befor