Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 9 JUNE 1904

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Adcll'ess i;t Repl;!j. [9 Ju:KE,] Address in Rq!T,y. 35!:1

Tmm~n.w, \1 .TcxE, 190-t.

The SJc>JJ:AKElt (Hu.l, ""-:, S: _O<>wley, Hcrbert) took the ch .. (ir at half-pJ.s~ . .:> u cloek.

PAPER.

The fullo\viug p:tp2r, hid o~ the table, was ordered to be printt~d :~Uorre,..:;pondenc ~ relating to a charge made by l'/Ir .. f. 1-Ltmilt m, member for Co 1k, against Dr. H..t)th, t,.,.,;hid l)roceetor nf Aborigin,tls.

<.tUESTIOK

Oo);VJCTTOX OF PREI\'~TT,

:'vir. :\IACARTXEY (Toowony), without notic -, asked the Attomey·General-

·will he table :1l\ paper::; relatin'-{' to the eon\'iction of Prewett. refPl'l'Cd to last evenin~ by tile llon. member for Bnll~o, and those relating to <my subsequent pro­ceedmgs7

The ATTORNEY-GENERA.L (Hon. ,J. W. Blair, Ipswich) rcpli·,d-

rrhe papers will be here in tivc minut' s. [Tile papers referred to were laid ou tbe table at a Inter hour.]

c;oYernrncnt Evcj long C'nough, and passes a. FranchisE' Bill, whm 2 will thP Seen~ tary for Public Landc, the Premier, and the Attorucy-GcnPral be '! !Opposition mem­bers: Outsid<) the House, J I am of opinion that the crisis has come. Let u-- have it. Some people say we have no right to go to the country-that the country cannot stand it. I ~av thr time has come for cverv farmer in < dLlC<•nsland to ;;peak up and stand up for his rights, so that they may have no moro hard­ships thrust upon th<•m by leg-islation. Now, within the last few months the unemployoc[ haYe been placed in various parts of Queens­land. [lllr, P. J. LEAriY: In :'Vlinisters' dis­tricts.] I believe they have been placed out­~ide ),lini~ters' rli';,tricts as welL On my own boundary, adjoiuing- tlw 'keto rate of the Secretary for Lands, they ha,-e sent a batch of men-twentv or thirtv-to cleat' the scruL. I belir-Yc there~ is a rese~vc of 900 acres there. \\'ould it not have been far bPt-ter if the Go­•:crnmPnt had opened that land in homestead arr-as of 80 or lOO acres, and settled nine or ten families there: LThe SECHETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS: There are homestead areas open near to it, and they will not look at it.] When the hou. gentleman visited the Bunya Mountain a short tin1e ago, accornpanicd by a Courier representative. he praised that settlement for

ADDRESS IC\' REPLY. all it was \\orth, People came from New South \VA);T OF CONFIDEXCE NlOTION-RESUiiiPTION \Vales, and they tllrned that prickly pear, and

OF DEBATE. balar, and brig<tlow country mto smiling home­steads, If the hon. gentleman had thrown the>

:'vir. TI-IOR:\ (Aubigny): The amendment land to which I ref<'l' open, every inch of it which has been proposed by the hon. member would han' he0n taken up; tlwre would have for Bunclanb": ou the Address in Reply is, to been tell or tw<'lve applicat-iono for each '''C· my way of thmkmg, a step m the right direc- ti,m. lt j, HOt prickly pear country, and th" tion. [Opposition members: Hear, hear!] I ltcm. ~·ent!c:>man knm-:s it. [The SECRETARY was qwte satisfied to give the Premier a fair FOR PrBLIC L.-I.XDS: I know it is.] There is show, but since Parliament was prorogued a very little pear on it. I was speaking recently few months ago I find the administration of to the OYvner of propprty near this reserve, and

- the_Gm'crnment.has_bcen. detrimental- to those __ ._he _say~_iLis _the. finest agricnJtm>tL\.(]n_d_irr _t}!>i_ ,settled on the land. \Vo see now that the neighbourhood. It is all vNy well for the first Bill which they introduce is the Franchise Secretary for Lands to laug-h, but I can assnre Bill. Hon. members on both sides have g-one him that when the scrub is clearNl whore the oo far as to say that they arc satisfied with it nncmployed arc now working, it ,,,-ill take i~ some respects, but I have always opposed ,,bout three years before it is thrown open for t!>e franchiSe bomg given to the ladies. [Mr. ""'ricuitural settlement, and the selectors will FoGART:c: I am wrry for you.] \Vel!, I be- ;,~asked to pay three times its value. If the hevo 1£ we are going to give the ladies the Go,-e>rnment want to settle a yeomanry class of francluse •:;e should refer it to them. Have hard-working- people, throw the land open they asked for it: Let thorn say, by way of a under the I-IOI.wstcad ~\et, and they will get referendum, whether they want it or 11ot. them, \Yhat have we got on the Darling: L:<t tlwm a<,k for it first, and it is then time Downs at the present time? vVhat have W('

to put it on the statute-book. The Uovern- got in tlw Rosc·wooc1, the Stanley, and t.hr· ment tell us that they are •;oing to assist those Fassifern districts·; \Vhy, the very backbone· who arc- g-oing on the land. \Yhv not assi:,t of the State: tho bPst as,ct that Queensland those alr._ady on the land-the me'n who have has got arA tho horncstc,ad men. But it seems familie·-, and who are battling hard and fivht· to me that the Government do not want lo ing to nwke <1 living? Yet the Gover1ur~ent o·ive the srnall :;;ettlt rs a sho-w. If they had will not assist them one iota, In the Govor- ~cnt the unemployed into settled clistrid s to nor's Speech them:> is not one word as to the mab• roads for those already on the land, tlwy constrncti•m of light lines of railwav to farm- woulrl haw• i, •en doing some g-oorl. [:'llr. iug- centre·, but, the:- are g-oing to' construct Foe '.HTY: \VInt die! the late Govcrnrnent rlo hnes to unoccupwd lands, on the bc>ttermont in that dire·:tion? Nothing.] I am not praisiup: principle, 'What does that mean? It means the late> Government; Lut I quite undcr,st<Jod that thoy arc going to pa ,'3 oYer those who are tl: tt '-he jlh vn1ing Govcrnn1cnt were going to already on the-) land. I can assure you I an1 do . .;oLIPthing· fo1· those on the land. [lVIr. sorry for the Hon. the Premier. He is a For;_~RTY: The:-· have not had time.] ':!'here is genl~l0n1an whom I respect in eyery shape and no clonbt that the-y qrc not going to do an:v-forrn; on<' ·,•,ho T thoug-ht would lcs.d this i hing, Tho first J3ill th~y introduce is the State into prosperity. But what is he doing? Fmnchisc Bill. And when they get this Fran-Hc is boc1:c•1 up by the Labour partv. who arc c'"isf' Bill through, what will happen? [;\fr_ 1~P.ving to g-et him to redeem their~ nron1ises. L:r:sr~A: You arc frightened to trust thP '"'Tr. )JnP_\HY: V on ha Ye not gi,:on tlwr'1 people,] I am not fright0ned of the people. I much ti1ne.] I think we haYe !:!i·n~n tlwrn haYe bePn oppo . ..,e(l by tJ1e late Philp GoYPrn-qnit0 .-ufficiPnt timr. Look at \Vh~t has taken n10nt. I \~as oppo~ed by the Libera1 ~cvf'nJ-placc ".ilhin the last thirb'-six hours in th0 mcnt_ and by th(e L Lour partv. and I hcYP Federal Parliament, wher; thev haYe !wen come nut of the fight 011 top. (Hear. trying to bring fan11c-rs and their chilclrf'n I mu onf' of thf' n1ost i1~deJwudent. nlcm-under the Arbitration Bill: \Yhy, if this in thi, Hun•c <tt the present time"

Mr. Thorn.]

360 Addnss in Rep1p. [ASSEMBLY.]

\Ye have had a lot of dismissals in the public service-a retrenchment that I do not agree with at all. \Ve have actuallv been dis­missing rnen of ability, 1neu wh~ have given t-heir whole lifetime to this eountrv. men who bave plenty of work in them at 'the present time. \Vhv have these men been dismi8'ed? What fad i's it? \Vhy, nothing more than tlw hd of tlw Labour partv. It is one of tlw planki {)£ ~.heir platforrrt-a plank that l disagrPe vvith

that vvben a n1an reaclH':-: the agP· of bixty or :-.ixt,v-five ypar~. hl:i :-;en .. -ice:-; haye to bP

-dispensed with. (Gowrnment laughter.) And _yet the Government tbat has dismissed these civil servauts is takin'i on the loafers of the country and is giving then1 work. [~Ir. GRA!\T: Give som(.::. instance-s.] \Yhut are those n1e11 earning at the present time at Rockhamptou; Eleven shillings a week! Do vou call that a fair thing for a man who is al~le to work; I am sorrv t<> ,;ay that the Treasurer has said that tha't is a ·fair thing to keep those men from starvatim1. [Mr. LESINA: Do uot mis­quote him.] The Trea-urer said so. [Govern­ment members: No.] \Vel!, if he did not sa.y it. I will withdraw it: but I saw it in print that he said so, and not on one occasion onlv. hu_t on two occasions. Those men are cleari1~g prrckly pear and scrub, and the monev is actu­ally being thrown away. (Hear, hea'r !) And where is this money coming from·: \Vhy, from those who are alreadv on the land. For the Goyernment to take it out of one pocket and put it into another man'c; pocket is not a fair policy. As far as I can see, if the :'.Iiuister would throw the land open in home­:-:;tead aren 'l. he 1vould get a settlement secoud to none iu the whole of the States. [The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LAXDS: You are talk­ing bunkum.] The> hon. gentleman knows it is not bunkun1. 1-Ie knows verv \•vell that thoHe at presPnt on the laud i1; homestead areas are thE' backbone of Quec>nsland. Take any G-erman ·:,pttleme-nt in any e]ectorate in Queensland, and you will find there the back­~Jone and ono of th(\ be:3t assets we have got. LJp at Nanango a fey~· v.·eek~, ago the hon. gentlen1an said that 1.vc wE?re. going· in for light lines of raiht ay. There j, not a word here about it. I can assm o tbe hon. gentleman that, if he wishes to thro, ,,. the !an cl open, thpre are thousand of f!cres ol' land in tho Btanlcv 1:!istrict that are lying idle at the ptesen't t-une. [The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC L ''NDS: You "Dnt ',ome of the timber do ym-'?J 1 wJI come to that. Jf t-hat "'E'l'C thrown opPn to-morruw~ e\'ery acre it would be ~wlectod as honwstead area;-; at a fait· pric?. C[urada is trying to bri11g all the people :--he can to her shore~. Thev actuallv -..-jyf' t.hcrn tJ1y l~nd for 11othing, a1~1d they ~ni}ply tht..•nl W11·h Implements and ration~. a11d, had Gv\'t?l'nment. do11e th0 :·mme thinr·. \VE'

h~1.vc got on prosperou~]v. But 110. i.hC'Y ::n'e doing the very opposite. ~ A.s far a~ I cm~ set?. the an1endn1cnt that ha been lTIOYPd hY the hor1. mentber fer }3ln1clanl:·a i8 a t-te-p i;1 the rig'ht direction. lion. g-entlemen on thi, side of the .House have·, within the last fortY­ei <rht or fifty-six hourP-. been offerinr- a pr.e­miun1 to t.hose \\'ho are sitting behind the Government. [Opposition member": Oh. oh!] They ha ye actually gone into the co!l­·'tihwnciE's telling tlw P"ople that. thp0· will not oppose them. [1\Jr. J. HA~ULTO!\: \Yant­illg' to bribe them, eh'!] [?.Ir. CooPER: The fir't tinw you han' ever heard that 11md. isn't it?] IY elL that was the Labovr r:artv. [:\Ir. KEX'\A: Who has gone out?] , \',:hy 'it was only last Satnr•lay that thf' Hon. :'dr. Hinchcliffc, a member of the l'ppPr Hou··P. and an hon. member of this Chamber. went to

CMr. TlzoTJ1.

Toowoomba to :;.top the local orga11i::-ation fron1 running- local n1cn to oppo~e the hYo hen. ·members for 'roowoo1nba. [Opposition members: Oh!] ['\Ir . .!\!AX\YE!.L: That is not true. though.]

The SPEAKER : 01·der :

::\Ir. THORN: If it i' a lie--if it is not true, as the hon. member says, I am sorry for them-really sorry for them-because the hon. gentleman knows it is true: and I can bring gentlemen to the bar of the House to prove that every word I have said is correct. Is not this a nice state of affairi"? ls this the wav the State should be goyerned ': I sav it is a· crying shame that Queensland should be governed by gentlemen of thic class. [The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: You are a Govern­ment sunporter.] I have been a Government supporte'r. (Government laughter.) [.c\ir. LESI!\A: You are a rail-sitter.] I came over here-at least I never left my ·seat-I never spoke a word until now. [i\lr. ::IIAXwELL: You are going to be a GoYernment supporter.] I was quite agreeable to give the present Go­vernment a show, but I find they are not going­in the right dir~ction. [Th<? ATT~RNEY­GENERAL: You are on t.he ''Tong, s1de. I think.] I may be on the wrong side, but I think that before verv long the hon. gentle­man will be on the ,'Vrong side. [Opposition members: HPar, hear~] [The A'TTORNEY­GENERAL: If I were on the outside of Parlia­ment it would be better for me.] The hon. -:::e.ntleman kno\v,, in his heart that be i~ on the wrons dide at the present time, and I _c_an a"'ure him that. I know that hP hnoJ the ab1hty and the mind to think for himself : hut I can assure him that before many years are over he will see that he has been on the wrong, side. and that I am going- ou to the right side. The Department of Agricnlture, during the recesB, has been doing a lot of good in n1any ways. They haYe appointed a dairy expert. hut. th£' farrni1F!' cuu-.;t.ituencic:;;:. do not requil'e

that--t-heY clo not· n:quin_• a MaiJ

[-1 p.n1.] t.o go r~nnc1 telli11g then1 '1 hat cLt~' of cattle t.lrey rc-qui1·r-. They

kHO'\V what. suit-~ thPrn in that direction. and [ tlliuk it \\'()nlrl. be far better to .seud that geutle""llaiJ ron11d to educate the fan11er~ V\'ith l'E'~ard to co-operation. That. ~.yould be a "t( p in t.he r1ght dir •ction. C:>-0!1eration on a lar:._L-' s\.ale, t.o n1y way of thiuking-. i-' ,-.,oin£;' to put th0 fanner;:; on a sotind footing. and. if t:1<' Sc-'cretar:v fnr AgriculturP will pardon 1110, I \\'t•nld ad i~c hirl1 to altei· hi . .: pre:K'llt tactic.~. and li'V to do ~or1cthin'; for thP farrn<:: Y':::; in tlw clin'cti'nn I ha:n! indicated. Tht·re is no doubt that 1.Ir. Thomson is a n:ry capable man: a mau of high ~tanclin.:", and 1 lx•lieve hE' \Yill l~o r~b1o to do :-tonwthin~ fur the dairyi11·_· indnstry in (JuPe'l:-JaJJc1. I arn ~orry to s<?o tlw1-. thP l1n11 .. tnnmbC'r who l11CJYC'd tlu~ Addre;;:~ ill Heply, sair1 that a portion of the farming cr::mn1nnitv 1Yero ctirtv-th2.t tbcv ¥Yere slOYC'nlv ~nd lazv, anci I can ass~re that hou. 1;1C'1nlee tl;at l have been am on -:st farrncr.s for the last bventy or thirt-y years .. anL1 I noye~~ can1e acros:" a clea11er class of

nor a 1nore Gllergetic clas;:; of people. hear~) Of conrse there are ti1nc~ when

~'~ farrnPr cannot keep hi:-:- yard and Pvery­thinh t:l::e clean. .A. 1nan n1uy start dairying on a blacksoil farrn, and he rnight. have a fC'W shents of "alvauised iron OY01' poUion.~; of it but it is not to 111.3 de+rin1c·lt that he ii3 not

to p1..1 L i'orty Ol' fifty shePt o,-cr his yard in order to keep the whole of his yard clean. I c .n assure you that the farmers do their Yery best in trying to keep their yards clean. The Government intend to introcluce a Dairy Bill,

Addres.,· in Rep1_1J· i:9 .JuNE.] Addn~s in Reply. 361

and lf they are goi, g to brin rr in an v drastic legislatiLd in connection \'l'lth this ·industrv th<-\Y v,il,l kill ~t. ·yery quic~dy. I am one <)f those wi1o bc 1tevt• thut all cattle which arc milked shcmld be i<"pect·· d : but if thev arE' g'?ing to bt·iug in any drastic legislation, which '.Vlll cripple the struggliru.r farrncrs in this St!'tc, I say that they will ''" doing a Yery bacl thmg. ThesC' men han• quite enough to do to :ollk thC!i' cows, wtthont putting down concrete floors or asphalt floor>, and showing that thev haYe a sufficient supply of wak·r to wash such Boors. I haYe t•-)Cll ROllH' of the h~parating rooms, and I say that they keep the floors there as clean as th1s floor hero in this Assembly. <tnd for anvone to sav that the farn-t,'rs are dirty i.'l ('~~ting a grCat slur on the people on the la·td. ::.\ow I must sav that l am of the opinion that the sooner this Go­Yernnlf'nt go0s out and another Government 0omes in, the better it will be for the State of QLE'ensland. [Opposition n1embcrs: Hear, lwar !] Hon. gentlemen on this side said thev mtatcJ time, alld to mv "av of thinking and tC<"ording to the way ;f thinking of a !'ot of people, they han· had picntv of time and if the present. Goncnm!ellt ar~ going to hand over the rmns of Parliatnent to the Labour pal·ty, l.nt tlwm do so at once: let them go to the cc:>untr~t all~ ha-r~·~ a vote t:l.ken, and then ;vP Will fi~'(' WhO will OCCUp,~- the rrrcasury ?enchcs .. _[.eau (:b.:3ure you that I and my col­_t·agues s1h1n~ h:re thought that this GoYern­!nt•nt \\ ti:. go1n$' _to dn ::.omething; but thcv D<lYf' done nothing. and it is time thUt \.Y(~ bad a llf.",Y Gnvt'rnnJt=•Ht. \Ve \Vill take th(· __ sl~c~~l? f1:on1 he' g-oat_~. (Laughter.) l, "\,l)llld 1l;\.O IVJW t;J rpf:'r to the repurchase of

1P Glengallan E~tatc·. I arn of tht:; opiniot1, anrl ' "'' of the opinion. that the Go-

should purchase- la'nds in close ":-o 1_1~hlaJ.:J, and I an1 one o£ those

. tned tn fostl''' that princip1P or to ln·,ug iTpurcha'e Bills. \Y" v cro told n~;t lo;ll~' aftt'r thP r' ( SC'nt GoYorntnf'nt took (~tn,t~' '.nat un HJDJl_cy wa- antiiablc' for building hgnt lm. s to agncultural district,,, and threp ':;··_·Pks aftt r thnt J saw ln· the Bri.~lmne Cour£e1' t mt th(' GoYernnient had repurchased thP Glell­

F>tatt' for ur oriy £100.000 cash. I thi;~k was a_ 111 the \\TOll.g- direction; that

should have -know11 that thev ·nr repurchao:d land. vVhen

a de~)utation that interviewed I~anrL, he~ said that there was

HJ UlTears in connection with < -~ta1Ps ,on ,the ~Darling Dovvns,

"\Yny tiP (:;roYernnHmt have . GiPllQ"allnn E~tatc, -r,' hen the m cnrh difrlcnltiPs as the:v tried to

~11~.h~ 01_1+ lt ~''"=ts 111--v.rhcn retrenchment was Hl tl~r! an· n~1n cv~·ryonc- V- a~ getting poor-and yet ih<'.'PU'd £>Jo.fl00 ca"h for this land. Now the late Gon::runwnt nover purchased an,v estate ft:r c,_, ;;;h. ~-)Ec ,'ET_-\RY FOR PUBLIC LANDS:

~~~n.~f'Jls(~. , ~l~n 't, kno\",' what you are tab~lng J.dout.] \\ {'.Ll. ttH':;.- n1ay ha-ve done. so, bm that o•·ght h han• heeu a lccson to the present Gov0rnntcnt not to follow in their foohteps. :\Ian!' portions of the country arc askm!J_ questwns about this. 'Where did they gf'!' tm' money from·: [':\Jr. P. J. LEAHY: Out of the Treasury.] But they said thoro wa,, no money m the Treasury. I think that was a very great step in the wrong direction. If tl-te :".finister for Lands retains office, I will 11sk him not to listen altogether to the sub­ordinates iu his office, for they do not alwavs tell the truth. There is no doubt he h~s visited a good many different electorates, and he ought to know that if the good lands in the Burnett district were thrown op<>n at 2s. 6d. an

aerP. all of it ·soulcl lw aken up as homesteads. If that land is thrown open sc>ttlement. will be created, and good will )p clone to the Stato. [The· S;;cmnARv FOH PrBLIC LA~Ds: Th<> GovernmE'nt you oupported sold land there at £1 and 30s. an acre.] The late Government threw open Bunya :\lountaiu t.o those sp]ectors who came from "'ew South \Yale,, and we see what they have accomplished. \Yhy does not the hon. g·ent!E'man act. as the late Uovern­ment did in that respect: If he did. lw would do a great deal to promote settlement. [The SECRETARY FOR Pl'BLIC LAXDS: There arP 3,000,000 acres of land in the coao;t.al districts open for ,.election at, 2s. 6cl. an acre.] Has the proclamation been issued yet? [The SECRE­TARY FOR PUBLIC LA~DS: The land has been open for months.] I do not think the hon. gentleman can haw•· advertised the fact in any local papers in the district-he has kept ic to himself, and verv likelv wants the land for his friends. The" hon. g·entlemau knows j!'o.t as well as I do that the settlf'mC':tt I advocate is the backbone of l,lueenslancL I clo t·ot "i"h to be hard on the l\liniBter. \Go\·er!lnlt"'nt laughter.) He is a gentleman I ha,-e eY<'rv respect for. and I am sure that. il he woula only practise ,i\·hat he preaches vd1E'n he goPs outside we should have fa): better rewlts. Lut when he con1e" back to hi~ oirice hP geb hi~ nnden;trappers to say that thi> camwt be done and that cannot. be done, and the people can­not get the land. [The SECRETARY FOU PUBLIC LANDS: There have been 30.0GU acre·" of land taken up at 2,, 6d. an acre this year.] Throw open that land between Colinton and 2"\anango, and it will be selected within hveh·e months. [The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LA"iDS: Do vou want some of that land 'r] I do uot want au acre of it. I shall inform the House what the hon. gentleman wants to get at. I ha,-e. I am proud to .::ay, five :sons, who are nati~·es of the State. Xot many months ago they were down here intervie\ving one of the civil ser~ vants. The :\Iinister met them. and said to them, "Why don't you take up that land in hm_nestead a>'eas '! I will do everything to as"'st you." The hon. gentleman wanted this information. and now he will get it. The boys, without my sanction. as the hon. mem­ber for Drayton and Tomvoomba knows. applied for the land. I was very sorry that they did so. The· hon. gentleman may laugh, but I can assure him that if he was placed on that land for four or fhe vears it would give him a les·,on. and ho would learn something more than he knows at the present time. That sarcastic laug·h of his, that haw haw business of his-(laughter)--is not the wav to ad1·ance the iutel·c,ts of the State. The ho;L gentleman knows that every word I ,ay is true. \Vhen the bov, told me about the matter, I said, '- ::'\o. you ·tell the Minister not to g1vc the lund to tlwm." If the country to wluch I refer -.,us thrown opeu they would get land for settlement, not that I want it par­ticularly for my boys. but I think they are just as much entitled to take it up as any other person in the State. (Hear, hear!) The :\Iinister wrote a very nice letter to the boys, and told them tha.t he would do all he could to assist them. [The SECIH;TARY FOR PCTBLIC LANDS: \\'hat von want IS to take awav all the land thrrc that ufforcls grass for ti~ber­gctters' horses--the pick of the whole place.] 2'\nw, wo shall have something further about this busineS> T should like the hon. gentleman to go tlwn·--l do not know whether he will be able to ritlP clown the ridge. [The SECRE­'L~RY J•'OR PrBLIC LANDS: I can rich~ where­eYor you can.] I do not think so. I can assure the lion. gent!C'1wlll that if he will go there he

11Ir. Thorn.]

36~ Addn ss in Rep1,y. I ASSEMBLY.] .ldd1·ess in Reply.

will find that no timber-getters will get there within the next lOt) year,. [Mr. TOLMIE: They are all on the other side of the Rang-e.} • .\sk a ranger to go t hC're) and hear \V hat he says. Or; the Colintou Estate, which has been sold, they held an occupation license for about t.c_1 square miles of < .lUnhy-some of tlw finest grassed land in that neighbourhood. If they \>ranted that graHs, dr '~ portion of it, why should we lock up this country to hand it down to posterity; \Vhy should not people who want it get it at the present time·: :"limply because ono ranger inspects it and s011ds in a report to the ctfoct that it .chonld not be taken up. I hope the 1.\Iinister wili go into that neighbour­hood and fmd out for himself. should he be in power, but l hope he will not be, within the next we. k. (Laughter.) The land there is as rich as any land in the :-;tate. The railwav ha,, gone out sorno lG or 17 miles fron1 Esk, .. and that \Yould be an as::;istancc to those takil1g up the land. which is far better land than that; applied for b.' my boys. There is far better land on the other <!ido of thf' range, land far more accessible, a11d within easy ll1C~'l,ns of com­munication. The land my boYs applied for I would not haYe if it wore oiterecl to me to­lnorrovl. I do not wish to haY(~ anvthing 1nore than I have a right to get. l battled n1v own wav so far, and if the l\Iinister thinks he~ is t!oing a great thing in bringing thi.s wattt·r about mv own bovs before the House. he has made a g~·eat mis­take. \\e have been told bv hon. me1nhers sitting nu this side of the i-fouce that thev would lite to se~ the juniors in tht- sen-ice get rises. .'l.ccording to the Daily Jiail, under the latest retrenchment scheme the> juniors who ha'\ c 1>c-c·l ten years 111 the SL'rYice comL' oft 1·ery badly. Of the total amount gi,-en in Increase~. £'3GO go0s to officers who are re­cpiving £300 per annum and over, £410 to seventeen men receiving between £150 and £300 per annum, and the balance. £832 to fifty-six men concerning whose salaries p~rti­cul_ars a~·e Hot (_!Yailablc. The aYcrage run· sorne­thmg: like th1s---the officers in receipt of big ~alanes get InCr('aSP-, ?f £70 a year, those draw­Ing cornfortahle salancs £25 a Y<. ar. and those whoe0 n·munemtion is below a ·li,-in"' standard £14per ammm. Is t.bat the platfor,; preached by the democratiC s1de of the House where I mn sitting at ·~he present tin1o? Some ciYil sen·ants ha,-p r0ccivecl notice that thev will be retrenched at the end of the pre·,ent month. l '.vroto a letter the other dav io the Secre­tary for Public Lands in refere;Jce to a certain pN.oon wLo hrs bc,en in the service t•his last three "Years, aud ld1o has to support her 1nother. ~he h.,s rcceiYec1 notice• of dismisf':al. The hon. g-c•ntlPman has not had the civilitv to reply tn m~- letter. and I think I shoul;l have received a before this. \Vhat have thr GnY.._'rnrrw~lt in this case? Thov have ac~ul .. Jly ~eut. recent junior fron1 Too1.v~omba to Brishatw. :md put that offic<•r in the place this girl had. Is that a fair thing for the Go­VPrnment to do: I think not. when vou con1e to look at it in the• right lig-ht. thcv talk about re:-renchment. and at: tlu~ sarr10 tim.(' t.hev arc putting peC'pl in 1vho aru likely to suppo1:t them by th(•ir Yotp~. That is uot going on the lines luid c1ov:·n b~- thl' connnisRion. That is a rlirect cha•·gt• I make against the :Hiuister for . ..\gricultnn_>, and I challenge him to say I an1 not con·ect. I hope this debate is not going to last 1 ery long, although I und0rsta11d that scYeral hm .. r.nernbt>rs 011 this side dejrc to peak upon thf' 'LrbjPct. as theY haYe <'H'rv right to do. LL·t us get to husi1;ess. and th~ SOOllC'l' r de SO the bE.~ttC'f.

[Mr. Thorn.

HoN. E. B. FOHHEST (Brisbunc Xorth): _ lcelieYe I arn almost the last member on this side to speah. L Opposition members: Oh, no!] There cannot be rnany more at all events, un­less sonw of thmn choose to make another speech "" the amendment before the House. There is t.lii•' acLrantage iu coming soine\-vhat late on the s ene) t~1at it is not necessary to say quite ;,o ruurh as if one had spoken earlier. I do uot thiuk mvself that it is neccsoa.rv to intro­duce nny m(n·o eharges against th'e Go,rcrn-

iU all ennts until some of those that have introduced han' been disposed of. ..\. .~rca.t unrnbcr of charges haYe been opened Hp L a.gai11st the GoYernmcnt, and there has 1 ·. en a Ycry poor attempt to deal with them from ~rreasnrv bench. \Ye had a ,,poech from Premiee: an exceedingly good speech. '" a!l his spe<·chos are. I listen to them all ;:vith gceu· nk.s.sure, and this particular speech wa.s {Jo L·xCeDtion to i"l1e rule. But it was '-'Yidt llt;y a :p0cch 1-hat \Vas deliYered under Yerv r:rL·at 1'\'Rtr:: int; that 1nust have bet'n obs~n·Cd bv t'Yervbodv who heard him. He HI) doubt l·ec",lJPCted ~his surroundingF, and - ~)(}ln• IYit h a grpa.t mnount of care. Every v:'ord. ~·,-c 'Y sC:!L~ne(>, was mcasurpd. He never lc·t hjL ~f go once, or atten1ptcd to do '· '· v,ith the rr·suli that at the end of his speech \\'l' kiH'\V just Pxactl:. as 1nuch about the Go­YPrnmP1!t. proposals as ~.vhen he commenced. \Ye albo had e spcoch from the Home Secn'­tary. T am not going to deal with that very loner sper ,:h. and h,· n1adl: attacks on so manv me:~1b '1 "" this side that I shall leave the;, to takf' cat·c· of them·elnJs. \Yhat amused me pnrti('ularly i1! th•~ hon. gentleman's speech was th~ t ~l ' nlonJ('nt he got into figures he show<'cl that he n~lly was at sea. And the most a1nu~ing part of it '5'as that his figures 'Vf'rt· \Vorkr>d un and delivered in this House b,v the prc sent ·Treasurer two yc·ars ago. \VP h;~d it agai!1 jn the House last se-ssion; we had it at Ilocklmmpton, and '"'' had it where,-er the Trea'lll'Or had an opportunity of delivering it. I rc'nH:-rnher .~nggesting to him last year that it ,, FJ t1-ne ht' gave us a change. \Ye ban' not got t.he change yet, but I hope "'" shall have it before this debate dose.. The Homo Secrotar:-· worked up that speech of :\Ir. Kidston's in a VE'ry nice wa.y to suit himself, but he did not give us a sinde figure or a single idea that we have not heard over and over a,-ain. No doubt t!w speech from the Treasury bench was that delivered hv the i\linist.er for AC(riculturP. That speech' may fairly be divided into two parh. The first part as a11 attempt to Pxplain the bnndes that have been made in the \gricultural Department since he ha." been at the head of it, anrl the second wa, an attempt, ancl a Yery g·oocl one, to blow his own trumpet. If the lwn. C(entleman excel> in anything. it is in the art of blowing- his ow11 trumpet. He nflver neglects an opportunit;-· to do so, c'sjwcially <~t thG outside sho,,·s. He is ahvays ;{ivin,g- advice to the farmer;;:. or expressin!.:: his .yrnpa.thy with th0m. and f!Pne­rallv ke0pinv, himself to the front all the time. That has been the historv of the A':Ticultnral Department since :\Jr. Dcnham took char,:e of it. .L\s an old resident. ht>re, I was Yl?P> rnnch struck with some of the advice he o·ay0 to tlw fnrmers, 'and I f<,lt confident I ltad seen it before somewhEre. I had the curio,-itY to look the thing up. Some twent:· or t.\\:enty-fiH' years ago \-:~e had all agriculturi~t hen\, a Yery able man, and n member of this House. uamed Angus :\I ackay, \\~ha Tote a ::;.erie..; n£ article:-; in the r;u(l nslanrltr, \.Yhich 1--Yere afte-r­v.ards published in hook fcrm. On com­paring the }fini.,t.cr's advice to farmers

Address in Repl;IJ. ,_g JUNE.j Address in Rep!p.

with the articles I referred to, it appeared to me that the hon. g-entl<eman hac! hac! a good look at Mr. ::\lackav's book. or at his articlt>s as they appea1;ed in thP ()1rrcn,,·­lanrhr. There is certainlv a verv :-:tron"-!.· re~emblance between the t~vo. \Yhitt is tl-;:, good of givin2,· inforn1ation to farmer . .., that '"a~ offered tO them t\Yentv-five vears ag-o . . -\fter the exhibition ho him~self madE' lwfZ,re lP weut into office, whf'n he attempt<>cl to cli:-:panHif' the merits of thosp vvho had pre­ceded him. we should have expected ~Oine­tbing c1ifferent from hirn as far as agriculture i.s concenwd. I should like to know what. the hon. : Pntleman ha~ done "ince he entered office-. The. farmers do not think lw has hE>Jcefited them, and the department is at tlw present time as big a di;3appointrnent as it­eYer \vas. In the Speech refe-reuce is nmdP t) the irr1provement in the agrieultnral out­look, and certainly dairyiug ha~ ruade tre­mendous stride''·· But that is uot dne to tl!P Governrnent, or to the :Jiini~tcr for Agricul­TUre. It is clue to tv o causes-fiut, the break­up of the drought. followed by good season~; and sccondlv, to the better facilities that haYE' been given vfor getting rid of their produce--­which was the last act. as far as I recollect. of the previoUi; Premier. and 011e of tlw best acts he ever did. 'l'he present Ministry cer­taidy cannot take credit for that. [The PRE~I­IER: Can vou ~tate anv in::;tance in which thev have claimed the ctwlit !] I bcliew the onlv .:\Iinister who has referred to the subject i's the Premier, who, in a speech at \Yarwick, I understand, gave the crE'dit, to hi::; predecessor. I would also like to sav a word or two about the speech of the hon. rrwmber for Bowen. He referred to the .:\Iacdonalcl case. It was not

mv intention to refer to that ca::r­[·1.30 p.rn.] at'all; but thee hon. gentleman put

the thing in such a muddle that I fPel bound to say something about it. I am not going to discuss the qu0stion whether the ~\!Iacclonalds should haYe bl'<'ll reprieved, or whether they should have been hangt>d-that is not the point I want to dwell upon now. If l hac! been a member of the Executive myself when the question had to he considered, it is not at all improbable that I would haYe bet>n as ,oft as the rest of the Ministry, and let them off-I do not know that I "ould, but it is likely that I would. But I do say that I would have been prepared to giYo some defence of the action I took. The hon. member for Bowon was good <>nough to tell us that the ExecutiYo had very great power-that they had the power of letting tlll'm go to th<e gallows m to reprieYo tlwm or let them off altogethC'r. There is not t!w slightest doubt that the }~xccutiYe h"'Ye that power. and it is quite right they should han'-[ do not question that; but the hon. member w0nt on to say that the Exeeuti ve could exercise all that power, am! not give an explauation of any kind. I take rxccptiou to a statement of that sort being­made and going all OYPr Qtu:ensland and else­whel'e. [1\lr. KE~NA: 'I said it was not usual.] You said if thc'y did all thC'se things they were L_ot- callC'J upon to rnakc any explanation \'.That­OVE'l'. [ diffE'l' from that yipw entirelv. The P/cmiN also roft'rr'"cl to tho ::\1acdonald case, and in au intervi~. .v \vhich took place on the subjc,0t saicl they must not disclose the secrl'ts of the Exw:lltive. [Tho l 0 HE)!IER: I did not . <ay that.] If you did not, tell me what you did say, and I shall be ,-:ry pleased to accept your statPn1ent. [r:t'he PHE:\HER: You are making a quotation ancl are doing it wrongly.] You said it was 1 tot proper, or something of that sort. to clisclm<c the sccr0ts of the Cabinet. :c\obocly wants to know the secrets of the

( ·~tiJill ·t. hat I think it is due to the public that HlH' stat0mcnt should haYe been made as to

vdwth0r anY circurn~tanccs came within the krHm:lf'(L. e · of th(' Ex('cutiYP. other tha11 those which haYc been public property so long·. that would influpnct> the Executive in inter .. ft>ring at all. That i" the que-stion wh1ch would probably be asked, and should be re­plied to: and I trust that an attempt will lw made. if necessary, to force the GoYer~1mcnt to tell us whet-her ther0 were any Cll'cum­stance, other thau those already made public which would warrant them in interfering at. all. Another matter that the hon. membc-r for Bowen referred to was the working of dw Sug·ar \Vorks Guarantee Act. He gave a doleful account of the working of that Act in the 1'\orth-first, in relation to the Proserpine mill at Bowen: and secondly, the Pleystowe mill at :\lackay. It is evident to me that his l<eg had been pulled by a few discontented men as regards tho Proserpine mill. [l\lr. KEKX.~: Ko fear. I know all about it.] Yes, you know a very great deal of the men. I should like to give the other side of the question, but I am not going to keep the House four or fiyp .. !:ours. as you did, in giving the whole thine. I say the information the hon. member gan• was cYidcntlv taken from men who were dis­contented. f mav add that some of those Jr.E'n failed in everything they tried prP­viously: when they went into the sugar busi­ness they were failures too; and if they go into anything· else they will be equally failures, and will complain and growl more a.bout 1t th:w they do about the sugar question. [:\lr. KENN.~: \Yho are they?] I am not going to tell you that. Then, as regards the Pleystowe mill---it was a personal attack on ::\lr. Edward Long and :\Ir. Steadman. [::\lr .. KEX"A: I never said a word publicly abont. ::\lr. Long.] :\lr. Edward Long is regarded in Queensland as a worthy citizen, and as onE' of the most practical sugar men we have got. [Hon. J. F. G. FoXTO;,i: And one of the ;;traightest.j I was going to say, and one of the straightest. :\Jr. Steadrnan enjoys also a.n E'qually good reputation. They are two men in the sugar industry whom you cannot beat; they are practical men, and have always been in it; and if I were asked to name­any two men in Queensland who knew the most about it I should name i\Ir. Long and :\Jr. Steaclman. What are the facts'? \Ve are told that they have done all sorts of things at tho Plc-vstowe mill that theT should not ha Ye .lone.' I should like to he::tr Mr. Long's r0ply to the statcn1ents the hon. member mack in the House, and I can tell him that ::\Ir. Long would ";pe the floor with him and the men ··d10 supplied him with the rotten nonse1be he talked about. [3.1r. KENNA: You answer them. J In connection with this there arc' ju.st L\YO questions I would like to ask the ]:_on. nwrnbpr for Bowen, a reply to which v. ould be much more important than aaything 1.d1irh ~w ga \-c us in his very long speech t~e otlwr nighL I should like to know what 1s ihc opinion of the central mill people with rn·arcl to the appointment of Dr. Maxwell. 'J.'h0 next question I would ask is, vYhat yiew t!w sugar meu hole] with regard to the renewal of Dr. :\[nxwell's appointment' If he had d-\alt \Yith thosp two quP'itions instead of with pC'rr,onai dri,~cl, and giYcll us the views first of all of the sugar men up there, and, secondly . of th( sug·ar rr1en generall~ as regards the e'\:perinwnt :<tations-inforrnation which I know lw posspssed---it would have been useful to the• Houst'. but lw did not do so. This leads me 1o the qu0stion of Dr. Maxwell's rcappoint­mellt to the control of th<' central mills. I

Hon. E. B. Porrest.i

864 AddTess M Rep(y. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Rep1;1J.

,,:t.y a.t the outset it is too big a question to discuss on the Address in Reply. \V e shall llun' an opportumty, no doubt, when the Estimates come on to deal more fully with it aud we c;hall hanl another opportunity of dis­euF:~Tng 1t wh0n \'\'0 reach the amPndin<lnt of the Sugal" \Yorks Guarantee ..._\et; therefore I p_roposc to leave most I have to say about it till thfm. But It appears to me as it did to th<.> ~rreasurer and the Governme~1t or an:v one Plse, that somebody had to be appointed to look after th0 central mills. I recognise that. anrl I say Jlwre is no o1w more fitted than Dr. i\IaxwcE, so far as his knowledge as a sugar PXpt•rt lR concPrnPd, for the position. )Jo~ body can den:.· that. As regards the question which has beo!l raiser] as to the amount which the GO\·C'rrlnHmt has at stake, there is som0 confusion. It has been said that the Gm·crn­mrnt: havo .Q'ot £.'i00,000 or £600.000 at stake. D~. :\Jaxwell was appoint0d to control fiv<' nn11s, not thf' whole of them. There are thirteen of them altogether, and he had to control :\'fount Bauple. Xeran~ :\IoTeton. Proserpine, and Gin Gin. The c~n1ount du0 t 1 the U:n-crnme~1t b~~ those n1ills for princi~ pal and mterest IS £~1<LOOO. Of course that 1~ a large ~urn of mo1Jev. and there iK not the least doubt that it wa; necessarv that ,o!HP·

hody ~hould take charge of the illana£tt.'nlent .. a~Jd. nlm·coYcr, that som(' really comrct,ent man shoulrl be appointed. The question wlwtlwr Dr. .\IaxwPll should haYe been appolllted at £3,000 a year for this purpose l:-i cue that requires a great deal of thinkin'J' abou~. Dr. ::'JaxweJl'~ abilitic_,, a~ a co1n~ 1n,_•rc1al rn_an ha•:e LPPll que.-tionc<l. It ha~ bc·eu admitted that he i, a f1rst-clas> su'''U' Pxr:crt, ancl that a c0nuncrcial man i-., 're­qmr'"l fn,'· the work which lw ha'' undertaken. I t~_nnk t.h('re ~~ 11ot the :,liQ"h1t•:..;t do11l;t. tbat" flp 1:-; a cc1n:lmercial IYiau. an-tl a f!·o~ ~ th\1t .. I-Ie Js a v~ry good n1an 011 \-aj_uat~on-£3,0~)0 Is a ,~-~ood :-;alar\ fnr a. n!a!;----i.•Ht F,-hy I thi11k Dr . .:\fa X\'. ll i:- a C:Omn~c_•rcial 71Wil ].-.; that ( \-Pl' · i11c0 f haY'' lJ(·r>·lJ Ill (JueeH:-::;laiH1. and PYCr .--inc~C• the I.ab nr

p~:.~_·t.y carne- into cxi:-::;tence. ha'.("" b•eu nf or.uno11 tbnt no rnan that .A.l--~-11 .:lnv l:'Yf'r

tr(at.ed is 'Vorth that an1uuut uf llJOllf''-- ~Their idea is abc:_ut .BB a week a~ a · fol'

onl. Dr. :.\iax-\ .. ·211 con12~ a1nn~ :-ail.., on £3.0CO a nat·. anrl tl:eY · him

wit huut a nnn·rr1;1r. 'fhat i-... o;JP rernarkaLle iu::-.1-ance~ of the• tl~at yon cou~d hav.o: So far frorn qtwstioning· lll Ct?trHllE't'Cial alHhty. l it is undouLtecL ~~1d I rf-';2.1"c•t Yf'ry u~ucb !liiH a seat in tLi:::; 1-(onsc. do an inll11Pll~e arnount. :--on1e of :ny hiPnds oppc.;;ite. \Ye• cuuld put hirn iu the LT pper \'\,~ L'

h~\--P tou rnall.' (J£ the phtlJ!cr:--; t1w L ppor and I think 1w wunld lle. 1:--ct.te!· ~\O\ , in thi~ co-ntl.'ctim;. I tLudc the- :-;ugar experirncnt ~;tatioll dc..:ern~ :-:.cmc- con~idcrr.tloJJ. I hold in rnv hm1d tlw report of an intervi::.·.,· \Yith t.he. Treasurer ~1r: Y(i~l:-;t '111. I \ ill not read it. but takmg 1t all through it is not om d !·he '.vay. It i~ prPtty right a:-. far a .... lt; goc..:., Lut it doP.-... uot go fa1· l'llonfdL :I fr. Kidston puts rlo·· n the oYcrdraft due bY the E'xperirriPnt stations at £7,000; but thc:·c appears to be some confusion as regards the amount. I have a memorandum hero from the . <pc.c•ch, of the .Secretary for .o\.griculture. in wluch t1C puts It do,vn at £13.1100, and wlwll we turn to the Auditor-General's figures and wm·k them up to the 30th J unc, I do not sPe how it is possible to make the m·erclraft more than £8,000 or £<J,,OOO. However, we are not !fOiug to discuss that now. \V" have tlw thrPe

[Hon. E. B. For,.esf.

statements-£7,000, £13.000, and the Auditor­General's statement--and he probably knows mmo about it than the other two put toqether-and he sot tho an1ount do,vn at £8,000 or £4·,000. 'I'he Treasurer, in the inter­YiPv; \Yhich he gaye one of the ne\vspapers, said--

Dr. 3Iaxwell"s salarr was going to be paid out of the cons,_,Jida.tect re\·eune. un!r the arrears had lo he met by the a::~l:lessment. ~

That is straight enough; but what is goillg to happen then' 'That is the in!0resting questiou. 'We want to know what will happe11 when the urr:· ars are 1:-a.id up. He refers to the 1natter again in another part of the inter\-iclv. and says--

Ir tlw sugar experiment .:.t:-ttionti wero a.boli!:'hed, the tlebt of £7,VtJV WULl1d sulllla.v;_: to be lJalL~ back.

There is no doubt about that. The sugar­gTo\vers and rnanufacturers \Vere parties to the ;let in a sense, and they recognise their re­sponsiuillty and liaLlility to pay up arrears; but when those arrears are paid we want thac to fimsh it, and 1 say in decency to the sugar· g-rowers and manufacturers it should finish it 111 terms of the Act under which they haYe hcen working. There 1s no doubt whatever that that wauts serious consideration, ancl it \Yould be most unfair to saddle them with assessn1cnt ·\Jter the arrears haYe been rnet. and alter taking- away Dr . .i.vlaxwell, particu­iarly in view of the fact that all other exports fur other mdustnes are supplied free by the> Uovennnent. Sugar i.s adn1ittedly the chief agricultural industry we have~ and the gro\Yt~rs and rnanufact.urers were w1lling to charge then,sciyos with Dr. 1\laxwell's salary so loug­as his attention was devoted to the sugar ex­neritnE'Ilt statiOUti. ::\"ow that those service.-; La ye been taken a v, ay, I say, in all fairness tiJ

the sugar n1en, all other expensc<J, as \vcll a::: ,.,\ary, :;hould be taken oyer by the' GovcrH­mcnt. .'1/uw, Dr. :\>Iaxwell's first engagement. expires in Octobm· .. lUO.'i. noc, as the 8ocretary for .1\..griculture sa,ys, in tv~'O years fron1 next Uctobcr, but one year frcnn next October. Th(· {lucsboa of l'PUO\vu..l \vould uudoubtcdly havL' had to be COl.!.sidcrcd vcrv soon. and surel ,, ~he: farmers and rnanufactu~rers \Vho haYP bce~1 ~wrties to t l1i ·• act should ha Ye been cousulted. l 1hey have bet~n taxed to pay their aP:scSSinenr. aud surelv thcv should have had son1e yoice i11 atly prop~osed ~ re11ewal t..f the Pngagcn1ent. Duri11g thC' four y( ,tr" of Dr. 1Iaxvi'PlL;; ell­,~-!agenlL'llt they have paid sornc £15,000 towards the cost of sugar experiment stations \Yith. up to the preoent timP, no result whateycr. Dr. :\Iaxv:ell. in his first report, lays down what should b<' the functions of the director of suga1· Pxpcr.i.~..:.lent .3tations. and ou page 18 of his rPp~)l't \n) have the follovving-

(1; To per~onallr visit all t1istriets and snbtlist.rict:-. where eane i~ grown. and to in:..;pect the htrms and plant.ations of the gTOWPl'S: advisiug in all matter~ of the fie id. ~nch as st~lr-etion of htmb :-:11itahlE', and lL-tYing nut nf lanrls tlllsuitahle for.c.me: the 1nfl.ividual 'LCls of culti \"atioll : l he rrsting and rotati11g of the soils wHh other {'l'Op:-c;; tlw int1ot1netion of other ePnnorrlic crop.':! and sonr<'t'S of profit: and the instit'lting of new means for the re~torin)..!: aud maintaining of the procludug po·wer of the lands.

(i1 To examine the ~oils in the tiel.d, and take ~amples for an:tlrs.1s in laboratories. and to atl\"ise manures a<'cordin.g to the a-;certained rettUiccment~ of t-ach soil an(lloeation .

(::J) To in~pect the mills during the crnshing- sea~on. nd\·hdng and ~tidin.2," the mana;!"Cl' in the "event! acts of thP mann(actnre.

;-t.l Tf) institute experiment" at e:wh of the three stations along the several linp,s of cnltjvation. planting, manuring. irrig-ating, and stndy of eane Yarieties ~ ancl ikewis,J to study 11revailing diseases ant'!. pests.

Address in Reply.

(5; To adYise nnrll:lid the ~ane-growers and rnanufae­turer8 on !lHe~tiOJJ:-~ of ;.;ale 11Hd vure!m~e ot' cane, :-md to be at the scr\'ic•~ of tlw :1SSOI·iatic-n 111 it~ affairs which are couneetctl with the ~tat e.

.6) 'l'o train and 1-Jrevare the as-istant dlre,~tors, in urder t~a.t they shctll Ultimately bu~ume htted Jor the responstbk direction of the respecnve stHtl'Jns The term or l'C<lUll'Cn:ent of tht:: services of the tln·eetor m chief shonlu not e.\cced five yea.rs.

It is four years since Dr. }tfaxwell came here. anil. I a:--k any sugar n1an where he has reaped any of the adv;u1ta:;es set out iu that state­ment.. l:\lr. J. LEA:GY: Not one.] The sugar cxpenment statwns have never attempted to pYe them any advantages. Certainly the first report of Dr. Maxwell refers to the non­~uccess attending his efforts frorn a varietv of cause:::, \'vhich no doubt are more or les~s c;m·cct .. Then it appears from his report that ooscrv.Jilolls on '.he most material part of his ;wrk are to appear next vear. U ndcr the cir­cumstances, seeing that~ these unfortunate suga1·-growcrs have contributed no less than .S15.00U-,,·at least they will have when the prese-nt assessment is paid-seeing that thev are promised that they will get the result of s~Jn1G obf.:er, ahons next year, and, in view of the fae<c that Dr. l'daxwell himself has been re­lllo.ved from thee department. they should be rnlH~ved of any further expcnsB in this con­uectwn; and I trust that, when the Estimates · ome 011. a determined effort will be made to reh;ve. the sugar-planters of this burden. The nex .. tnmg I have to speak about--and I do not o,uppooe the last word has been· said bv an)' 1TIC8!1S Oil the subject-is this board of mqmry mio the civil service. I refer first of all.to the pwcemcal way in which the report ~·net cveryt h1ng connected with the business n~s l1een placed bdore us by the Government. \\ e hav~ had hmts that all sorts of things \vcre going- to occur. Thev came out in th0 papers and intervi(nvs, ai{d in all sorts of \Va.vs. but the rQp?rt was suppressf'd, the r~p01+ has bren Withheld. !The PREMIER: Tnat IS not so. It was neither suppressed nor Wlt'llwld.l I contend that it was both sup­P"''"cd and v,cithhelcl. !_The PrumiER: That I' not, :'o.l \V ell, it was placed on the table of the Hou"P. and that was the excuse that '. '" mark for not making it public. [The 1~RE::\IIER: Parliament v. as in recess at the t1me.l I recognise that a> the proper wrt of r:.11ng to do. I take the Premier's wor(l on a nw.rt0r of that kind in prefPrencc to rnv own. and I fLTil not going- to :av h0 \Yas ~wron~ ·-~~-:ont it: ln1t., if it necedsary to \vithhold

rep01·t fwm public, it should hav<' <'qnally 11C'C' -sary to "'ithhold the >·c­

('J):nmr'ndahono;;: fro1n the public until Parlia­nwt. One should newr haYe appeared

o' rwr clirl. \Vhv should th<> rC>com­comc ont? 'Vh,v shoulcl they lw

a hmt from nillar to poc,t. all cou_nt.ry, at 0very street corner,

~·Y0ryone t~lking- ahout them. P.vervonB "'.vnnt­J~g 1nore tnLtrinntlon, anrl all tb<lt inforrna­non bP ~uppres.-..ecl? If it " a:-~ ne-cc, .;;nxv to delay the ono f0aturE> of the bn~inP~~. it' w~,:3 n~ce ·,.1rv to clela:v the other fea.tnrP. It i. ab,urcl to talk about rPnort heirL withlwlc1 until Parliament met. The Pre,.;ier shoulrl bavc waited until Parliament m<'t in rerrard to everything couneAJt.ed -with it. The n{~blic we.re very much inte-rest,f'd in it; the ciYil ser­vants t.hf'mi'.elves ·were very n1uch exerci:-'ecl about it. [The PREMIER: ;\low vou are ef>t­ting at the truth.) I am going to refer to Truth directly. (Opposition laughter.) It i,. an exceedingly fortunate thing for us that we have got Truth. Either last year or the year before last, my hon. friends on this side in­troduced a Bill to suppress Truth. There is

Address m Repl,1J. :365

no doubt th<tt, had that Bill ever come on for discu"S-slon. it would have rnet \Vi th a ve.rv warni reception, but it was a.n1ong the slaugll­tered innocetrts at the end of tho se,sion. It is very ~ortu~1ate tha.t. it was not suppre-.;;se.d, because It ra1.ses a very important question aR t.o whether even now wo have got the original report of the board af inquiry. [:\lr. J. LE \HY: Hear. hear! I do not believe we have.] I do not believ0 we have. \Ye have got in this House what Truth calls an "emas­culated fragment." \Vhy does Tndh call it an "ema,culatecl fragment"? Thev know ,omethirg about it. aud I know, as a matter of ftwt, that they do know something about 1t. There is not the slightest doubt that the man who wrcto that article had a copy of the report in his pocket. and he has told us in two i·~~ues :-.iuce, and threatened t.ho Govern­ment that, if they did not put the report on the table, they would furnish Parliament with their own report. [The PREMIER: \V ill the hon. member allow me to interrupt him?] Ce.rtainly. [Tho PRE:\IIER: There is not, uor was there ever, any report other than the one ~he hon. member has seen.] [Th~ HoME ~ECRETARY: That ought to be suffiCient.] I am quite prepared to believe that there is uot­I accept the hou. gentleman's a· 'urance as a matter of course. Hm·:ever, that simply shows that Truth may be wrong on that pomt, but, all the same, Truth has ren­dered good service, particularly in connec­tion with the report of this board. But e ;en novv v.e have uot the faintest idea whose recom1nendations we are considering-whether they come from the board that \\'as appointed to carry out the work, whether they are from the :\1inistry, whcth•'r they aro from tho Tinder ~0cretarics. or whether thev arc from sorne ~·Iiuisteriaf Sandow. It appe'ars to me we can­not get along now without a Sandow in the :\linistry. \\hen this party were in office, the hon. member for Bulloo was regarded as the ~)anclo w of tht.~ l\Iin istry, and the Treasurer has t ~1a.t. distinction in the present Government. How much he has had to do with the report submitted to Parliarnent before it reached Parliament I should very much like to know. There is one rccon1mcndation which is a new f~ .1 ture in the reports of such boards and Royal CommJsswns, and I brov· something about the \York. I ha\ e nPvcr vet seen connnissioncrs t~kP it upon themselY(;S to n•conuncnd one of t lll'rnseh-es for a lucrahYe billet. in the Govcrn­ILC'nt . sr>-rYi_cc. a:.1d that hws pr'1.ctically bt~on

m tlns cast'. [!-lo11. D. H. fhLRY,:PLE: It unprc•ccdenterl.] I '" y so. During the Ja..;t tv ent~v-£i"i.-o years I ha Ye had experience of Y.arious boards of iuquir.\- and Royal Conlmis­swns, ~tnd I do n;t rccollf'ct anything- of that i:nrt. erthcr here or a.n:vwherc C'lsc. It is true i hat th'' lottPr rccommcndiug ?.ir. Brcnnan for the appoiu 1 tl1' ut 1.vas igncJ onh- bv the other !. \YO cornmi "imH'rB; htlt a nyon~c I~uov" s ner­~cctly well that Hw v-ll()]c thing was ~ put-up ]Lb. ~Opp<Y ltinn DlPJTibC'l : 1-If'al'. hear 11 1

~l 1 n not going to take anv C'xrepbon to J\Ir. Jjl'f'lliH1ll~S appointrnent. I think it will bo a

as to ··lwtlwr the billet should ever ereatr:l. and n, great dral will have

se 'ri from th'lt point of Yiow to justifv it: 1 ut, so fnr as Jlr. Brcnnan's appointn10r;t to the position io concerned, I will say that the expcriencP 1 have had of J.lr. Brcnnan is that he is a capable fellow. [Honourable members: Hear, hear!] [Mr. P. J. LEAHY: As an audi­tor.] \Yell, that is thP only experience I have had of him. But to sa v thu t he is the best qualified man in the ser.vico is a large order, [Opposition members: Hear, hear!] There ie another thing I would like to say about the

. Hon. E. B. Forrest.]

366 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Adrlress in Reply.

report, and that is that there is no cvicknce attached to it. It is a Star Chambc'r business. I know evidence was taken. \\'hat has bc•corn<' j)f it'? [Opposition members: Hear, bear!] .I am prepared to prove it. If that evidence was before us, we would ha vc something to -work upon. Every comn1ission on which I have been in connection \Vith the civil seryice during the last twenty years took tons of evi­dence. It has all been published in repon form, and would be useful for comparison with the evidence taken by this hoard if it were before us. I am inclinf'd to think that. if the t;vidcnce taken in this instance were pub~ hshed-although I do not suppose it ever will be-1t would be found to be of a most flimsv character. As to the way the depart­mc·nts were examiued. I do not hesitate to describe it as an absurd burlesqu<'. In c<.mnection with this matter, there were ccrtam reports from the several l: nder Secre­taries furnished to the Civil Service Board-­I am dPaling with the time before the board of inquiry was appointed-and I want to

know whether these reports were [.1 p.m.] handed to this board of inquirv

and, moreoYer, whether thev a~~ procurable now, because I am inclined to think that these _reports will bo very useful to hon. m cm hers m d1scuss1ng this matter on the E"'1mates. The only other matter I wish to :efer. to. m connection with this board of mqmry 1s the cost of it. I do not think anv mformation was given with regard to countrv officeo, except, yerhaps, what was given bv Mr .. Brennan hu'?self; but if any other infor­matwn was obtamed, from whom was it ob­ta}ned, or wa• it solely a Brisbane concern? W 1t.h regard to the payment of these commis­sJOners, wme, £1,200 or £1,400 w!'mt to. Sydney. )The PRE~n:'R: You are m1squotmg the amounq Well, I do not want to do that, and I WJl! say that. £1,200 of this went to Sydney. AJ';d what d1d :VIr .. Brennan get? Fifty gumeas, and I say 1t 1s a scandal, for he was ihc hest man on that commission, notwith­st<:ndmg all the great things which have been sanl about C\Ir. ~roup. Mr. Brennan only got fifty gumeas, whJ!e the other two Sydney men got £SOO c;r f!GOO each. It is a scandal. [:VIr. LESINA: 'Iernble. And yet £175,000 was spent on tpe Lmdon Bates dredge•i after half an hour s tnal.] That matter has already been chscussed: but 1f tho hon. member wishes, I wlll open 1t up. agam, and have something m_o1·c to say on 1t. [An honourable member: Lmrlon Bates says he would like to buv thorn back] [The PRE"'IER: At his own 'price.l /The TREASl'RER: There is another kind of tnal on now.] The hon. gentleman thinks he kno···.s. a lot about this business. and I am not gm_ng to sJt down until I have said somcthmg-. about the harbour boards. !Hear, hear 1) L1ko the border line to the Premier it is always uppermost in mv mind' but I an; not going to talk about that now': I am gomg to talk robout a matter >Yhich i, not mcnhoned m the Speech, and which should have been mentioned there. I refer to th0 fruit industry. Some reference ha:;; been m ado to this by tlw Secretarv for A.nri­c_ultme, b~!t th;re i,, not a sint(lc ~vord ab?nt l•j

1III the Speecn~not .Pvcn Cape goos.ehern2 ..

['I he Pm~~\IIER: I tlunk you are wrong.] I have road the SpPPch and I cannot find anv ,·ofercnce to this subject. [An honourable mem-­ber: Not even to pineapples?] The onlv re­ference to this subject in the Speech is a Bill to provide for the des1Tuction of insects. I can a~:--:ure the GcYV€~rnmPllt that the fruit indu~trv i~ a yer.v important on0. It is a big export. i

but we want to make it hittger. \Yith rexarcl

[Hon. E. B. Forrest.' -

t.J pineapples. I think we are indebted to thP C)uc<'mlancl Chamber of Commerce for a ETeat dPal of informatiou in this conuection. Iu their ~ccond annual n'port then• i~ a re­port nf a lecture d<'livered bv :VIr. J ame· .llit.chell oa the subject o'f pine· cx­clusiYPly, and\ if auyone< \'\'ants any infor­mation 011 this subject. he should n•ad this paper, for it is most instructive, and gives manY valcmble hiats and information. This charTILcr of commerce came to the conclusion that the problem of the future will undoubtedlv bP tlw findimr of markets for our fruit. when grown. The Government did take some steps to assist. this industry, but they left. off at the very pomt where they should have gone on. The finding of such a market is not an easy matter, and although the .:\Iinister for Agriculture was right when he said that the Queensland and the Australian markets have not been sufficientlv exploited-but there is abo the English market, and there are many difficulties in regard to sending fruit there­and that is where the Government have failed to give assistance. The shipping companies have made all sorts of stipulations, and the fruitgrower cannot dPJl with this matter but the Government can. [The PREMIER: Thev have.] One stipulation is that there should be a certain quantity of fruit for export; we do not know exactly what quantity they want, but I suppose it will be something like 2,000 or 3,000 cases for each vessel. \Vel!, no one rr·an could take that risk, so we want the eo­operation of the frui tgrowers and the co­operation of the Government also. [The PRE"'IER: The Government are making expe­riments.] The Government have made cer­tain experiments, but they were not warranted m commg to the conclusions they did come to. In this co-operation the growers want the direct help of the Government, and thev hold that State co-operation is of the greatest im­portance. That if· believed here and in other places. Now the Premier reminds me that the Government have been making experi­ments, and I would like to say that a mani­futo was issued by the Agricultural Depart­rr:ent some time ago, in which many difficulties in this business were pointed out. I do not grumble about that, but at the end of the· article it was said that the matter would have to be left to the growers themselves, and that is. where the Government failed. They ad­VIsed the grr;wers to go in for pulping and canmng particularly, but what we want in this direction is exporting. The pineapple export, if they got properly on to it, would be better tloan the export of fruit from Tasmania. It is a freight producing commodity that we want to send home, and if the business is managed properly there will be no end to it. There are thousands of acres on which pine­apples can be grown profitably, and as ::\lr. .:\Iitchell pointed out, thev can be as easilv g1own here as anywhere; Und I sny that, if w8 get the m. port. trade, vessels will be induced to come here as they go to Tasmania. For these reasons I want to see this fruit business pushed on more vigorously. The Government have pu,;hed !t on to a certain point-they have got a lot of mformatwn; but they stopped, and said that the business must be left to the growers. [The. PREMIER: It has not been so. J I live in a chstnct where a lot of pines are grown, and the general impression there among the pineapple men is .that they have simply been left. Then 1t 1s sa1d that experiments have been carried out in cold storage. They ha n1 been carried out: but, unfortunately, the Government have stopped at a certain point, and have said. "vVe l1a vc do no all we can, we leave the rest to the

.i:l ddress in Repl_y. [9 ,JUNE.] Address in ReplJ:'· 367

grower." In November. 1903 twcntv cases of fruit in first-class condition ~ere p;.t in the stores of Trail!s Limited and when they came out in .January, 1904, they were described as being in splendid c:mdition: and so thev wore. The temperature was 3-1 degrees, b{.;t Mr. Trail! "thinks that oven a lower temperature n1ight be l:etter." At t?e same time a neigh­bour of mme. :\h. Kre1tzer, one of the prin­cipal fruitgrowers in the district, put twenty cases of frmt m the same store at the same temperature, and when thcv came out thev were not fit for shipment. imd could not be sold, and anyl::ody who wants to see them now can see them on his farm doing dutv as manure ~n cultiYation. A great many other cases wluch were put m are also being used as ~anure. [Th{ _PREMlER: Some were shipped.] ~ome were smpped, as the hon. gentleman 'a:ys, and I ]1ave got a r:port here showing that th1~ exp<>rimental . shipment of pineapples arnved m London m a rotten condition. At Gatton, in November last, a number of cases of fruit were put in the cold stores at a tem­perature of 55 and 60 degrees and they all ~~me o~t. spoiled and ~-ottnn. [11r. J. LEAHY: I he Muustnr for ).gnculturo neYer told us a W?rcl about that.] It is a fact all the same, as ,'-,':'11 be seen from JYJr. Benson's report. Mr. J. ra11l says that the temperature at tho experi­m':'nt in Brisbane was 34 degrees, but that he tlunks even a lower temperature would be better. Dr. Maxwell who is an expert chemist, thinks that 4S or 50 degrees should he the temperature, but significantlv adds that "the critical temperature has yet to be discovered.'' That was after the cold storage experiment which the Government have ac­cepted as conclusive evidenoe that the experi­ment_ -,.,-~s a success. I behove that Dr. Max­well Is nght, and tha_t the critical temperature has yet to be discovered. One expert s.ays that 50 degrAes is too low a tem­perature, . another that it should be 55 degrees; m Now South Wales the tem­perature ranged from 40 to 45 degrees. bnt the whole of. the fruit. that was shipped under those conchtwns perished on the vov­al'e ; and English experts say that under no Circumstances should the temperature be below :iO degrees: so that there is a confusion of ideas on the subject. [Mr. PAGET: Doctors :l.l·e d!'·agremng.] Yes, doctors are disagree­mg. The Government should give every assist­anc" to tho fruitgrower, not only in the matter of cold storage, but also in regard to '-hlpment of the fruit. The pineapple men cannot make these experiments themselves; they want the help of the Government, and in all decency they should have it. These men are engaged iu the biggest fruit-producing in­dustry we have, and up to the pr~sent time they ha\·e not had that assistance which they should receive from the Government. I hope the Gm·ornment will push their inquiries in this matter further. Now I come to the ques­tion of harbour boards. The Treasurer's proposal i' that harbour imprm·ements should he made out of collections of harbour dues. I should like to ask the hon. gentleman if tha,t theory had applied to Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, or Hr£ mantle, would those ports over have had the improvements they have got? In :\Ielbourne they have spent about £,),000,000, including £3,000,000 of borrowed 1noney, in making improvements to that port; they have seven or eight n1iles of wharfage, the hc.,t I have seeu anvwhere out of Liver­pool. \Voulrl it lmYe b.;-en pocsible for them to ha,-o effected those improvements out of rm enue? In Sydney they are borrowing from

£5.000,000 to £10,000,000 in order to improve the pori. Should that money come out of re­ceipts from harbour dues? \Vould the im­pro\·emcut:; made there> have been made if thev hn rl to depend on revenue? In Fre­mant!e they haY<' spent £2,000,000 in harbour improYcment-<. chiefly in order to provide facilities for the shipment of their goods and to g-et the mail steamers to call at that port. Cou]•] that haYe beeu done out of receipts from harbour dues? I challenge the Treasurer to produce a singl0 instance where permanent impronnnents such as I speak of have ever bePn made out of receipts. The thing is a farce. \Yhilc on this subject I should like to ask how long are these harbour clues going to con1:inul'? How long shall we be able to coll0ct them under federation? I have here a copy of the Legislative Council Journals for 23rd Septemb£·r, 1902. containing a number of questions asked of the representative of the GoYermnent with regard to uniform duties within the Commonwealth, charges by har­bour boards. etc. The questions are as follow:~

1. Is the GoYernment rtwarc that P-lause 92 of the Commonwealth of Anstralia Constitution Aet provides that ''On the imposition of nmform duties of ens toms, trade. commerce, and intPrconrse among t hH States, '''het herb~· means of intPrru:ll carriage or ocean naviga­tion. shall be absolutely frPB r

2. Ts the Government aware that the Commonwealth Tariff Bill, imposing uniform duties, has been placed on the C01nmonweRlth statute-book?

3. If ~o. has the GoYernment, under snch altered conditions, decided to continue to collect, on goods imported from or exported to any of the other States of tbe Commonwealth. an~Y charges under the liHrbonr Dues Act ot 1892. the Harbour Boards Act, lSn, or any ameBdment of either of them?

4. Has the Government, under sur.h altered condi~ tions, decided to continue to colleet from vessels coming from or going to any of the other States of tbe Common~ wealth-

la) Pilotage: (li) Harbour rates ; (c: Tonnage;

under the Nav1gntion Act of 1876, the Port Dues Revision Act of 1882, the Harbour Boards Act, 1892, or any amendment of either of them?

5. Has the Government notified harbour boards con~ stituted under the Harbour Boards Act, 1892, or any amendment thereof, tbat under such altered conditions they have now no right by law to collect any of the beforementioned charges?

6. Has the Government given flffect to clause 109 of the Commonwealth of Anstralia Constitution Act, rendering inntlid :::.nch portions of the Navigation Act of 1876, the Port Dnes ReYision Act of 1882, and the Harbour Boards Act, 1892, and any amendment thereof, as relate to charges against g-oods and vessels coming from or going to the other States of the Commonwealth?

The answers \Vere-1, 2, 3, 4. Tes. 5. Xo. 6. Clause 109 of the Commonwealth of Australia

Constitution Act does not affect the Acts referred to, unless Federal Parliament assumes tho control of ports, harbours, etc.

The Federal GoYernment can step in at any moment they choose, and when they do what is to become of our harbour due~, and \vhat iR to become of the port. of Brisbane if we are going to get no n1ore 1noney from that sourcE'? And I ma;v m-k the same quE'stion with re;;·ard t.o Rockhampton and TownsYille. And yf't. I ,,ay tho:;e three ports are not (-toing to be shut up ,,-hether the Treasurer likes it or not. [The TREASURER: You should have thouuht of that before you went in for federation.] I only wish we had the opportunity to re­consider it: there is no doubt federation wonlrl he a dead bird very som1. The Treasurer proposes to make all sorts of improvements

lion. E. B. Forrest.J

368 Addres8 zn Repl,1J. l:c~SSEMBLY.J Address m Rep1,y.

out of harlnn due, I a', k hirn what be if> g-cing to rlo ·when they arP gone'? One ·word with n"'n:an! t.o the J-fan1ilton land. In rE'­gard to that the Tr'c.~a:-.urer 1\'H:-' altogether too lil>Pl'al. }Jl that the deputation~ from the Ha mi! ton ShirE> Council and other local bodies interPoctecl a,;ked for wa' the land that had hf'-011 pur .. ha~ed t•y the Govennnent. But t.h2 Trea,urer not onlv oHel'ed t.hat. but also the ]and rP~nnlPd bet\~-een the laud purchatied by the Covc•r11mE'nt a11cl the v.-harYe3-. ...'_\ncl the ho!l. gentl0n1an even wetn furtllPr. He :-;aid the (~oYf'nlmPnt (""lT goi1:g to cut ofF Buliml1a Point. and woul<l QiYe tlwm the soil rerrwvrKl in order tha't tllC',V n1i:;ht n ake a bee utiful park and all the re,t of it. rThe TREABCRER: !le was g-oing to be too- toocl to them.l Let 11·; '"" hat it Jneau:-:;, Bulin1ba point COlbist~ of about 18 acrE's of land belouging to the ()uecusland Im·estmPnt Company, "nd th\' Government \Vanted Borne 8 acre~j. 'l'hc com­pany offered the Government the whole 18 acres at a very reasonable price, and pointed out that t-he mil removed, if deposited on the low-lying area not required for ri.-er improve­ment, would greatly increase its value. And yet the .-ery stuff that was going to give the land its value, aud return to the Governmeut more than they Rave for the entire property, the Treasurer offered to give to the Hamilton people, and send it down to them in the Go­vernment bar,--es. There are one o·r two other matt€rs in the Speech which I will refer to briefly. The first is the Bill to confer adult suffrag·e in (~ueensland. That is a Bill I pro­mised on the platform to support, and I am going to do '"· and I am not. l!oing to draw the line too fine. There is a great deal to be said about equalising Yotes, and I recognise the impossibility of getting a mathematical equality, but I .shall stick out for the nearest approach to it that it is po"ible to get. It is a difficult thing- to do, I know; but we will make ·a fight on this side to g-et sv1ne sort vf equality. l have always been in fa.-our of women having votBs, ·and I ran tell hon. members on the other ,icle that all the won1en are 11ot goiug· to yute for the Labour party. \Yith regard to the referendum on the reduction of n1ernber::; of the- Lr .;isla­t.i,-e Assembly, I think the propostion is a mo>t absurd one. At i.he last [\'Pneral elec­tion the I.Jll('StiGu \;·a~ put on CYl'"r.v platfonn, D.11d tbo nuiYer:~al ansvYc-r \'\.:a:s that, iu

u~ · ~J !Laity irnportant c1cpart-IJc•eH taken on•r bY t.ho Federal a reduction in thuP 11nn1Lcr of

lllOITLJ _ -,,a:-: an ab2olntc~ aud u crying 'l'hp Tl'l'4SU"Cl', in that celebrated

speech \Yhich lw ~aid hn could reduce the of g'OYPl'lHYlCilt. b~- £;)00.000 a year, said

~t \Yhr•n ::\linistPr~ -,. err• n•ducecL and menl-bct·s uf Parli:ir.~.wnt rt:c1nccd, and Govcrn-nwnt I-louse was otlt. we should haYc gnt the~ first instatmPnt of, a c<~mpr('hcnsivc

of reform. ~~ow \Vl' fiud that the nurn­mcJn ben; is not to be reduced. \V c

kno ·· vdLlt th0 proposal to submit the rnatter to a rcfprer::d:tnl lEE. ans It Hif'ans t~wt the Re£ Bill will Hf'YC'l' gf-'t outside this House, \\ the reoult that in five or ten Y' ars' time \\ e shali be talking about the ·.ame thing that we rrre now. Then we find the prc'lcnt ;\:linister for ~lgriculturL', when he mm-eel the Acldrc'" in Reply last year, said. referring to our numerous local authorities. that there was uo State so well prepared for the reduction of nH,mbers of the Assernblv and that it ·A·as a reform clelnandccl fron1 (}ape York to Point Danger. If the Government were in earnest on the subject, a Bill for the reduction of mem-

[Hon. E. B. Forrest.

!Jprs should have been one of the first to come· bdore us, awl it would have gone through quickly, for at least four-fifths of the membem <tre absolutely pledged to it. Then we are promised an Income Tax Act Amendment Bill with exemption up to £100. I opposed the original _._-\et \vhen it was introduced two years ag·o, and shall oppose the amending Bill at every stc.ge until some effort is made to sell land-until there is a Bill introduced to reduce the upset price of land fron1 10s. an acre to something lower. There ·,wulcl then be no necessity for an incorriC tax. I hope a determined effort will be made to block the Income Tax Bill until that is done. ThPy sold 50.000 acres of land the other day, and it has bee-n a man-e] to everybody outside the HoLlSC, and most people in it, how the p!T,,eut GoYerument were able to sell 50,00()

acres. ~~t all events, they did sell L5.30 p.rn.] it; the Treasurer wanted to make

a good showing on the 30th June and accepted the offer, and they ought to do it much more frequently. It was a pity they did not. The flrst thing to be done is to intro­duce a Bill to reduce the upset price. The nrc;sent minimum is an absurdity. The value of )and clcpencls entirely Oll the use you put it to. You hanl got to bring the price down, and then you will sell the land. As to fixmg the pricP, I would not let the Government touch it. Let the Land Court do it; thev arc sen­sibl.e pe_ople, and could e~ercise son1e .. judg~ent in 1t. Let us fix the pnce, put the land m to the mat'ket, and then there will be no necessity for an Income Tax BilL [:Yir. TURNER: \V ill you he prepared to fix the price for pri.-ate imlivirluals when selling land ?_I I am surpnsed that any member of the House should ask such a question. There are plenty of Bills men­tioned in the Spoech-I look with a great deal of suspicio'1 ou some of them-but I will refe1· only to two. One is to constitute a. harbour board for Brisbane. and the other a harbour board foL· Cairns. So far as the harbour board for Brisbane i:S concerned, if it is on the lines the Treasurer has indicated, that there iti to bL' no moneY. I \vill oppose it, and. if ae~eFSa1·y, stonewall it. Ho has told us that the Government are not. prepared to con1e forv.'arc1 with IuoneY. The GoYernmcnt has been as'·ccl to give ~" a Harbour Board BilL and we arc prPpared to take it. I say it wi!i h'' a ccoocl thing for thCJ place. hut unless It i~~ g·r;ing to bP C'Hlo,vcd sufficiently to r>nnblC' rlw h.·1·bonr bonrd to carry on v:ork---LThe TP.EASrRE~: L-:-nless~you. can got

done for noth1ng.] Not at all. Treasurer has tolfl us hims: lf that the Go-

t cctnnot ··n1::ti;;:P bricks TVithout stravy'~ and can the harhonr board do it? That iF exactly the posit!o1: you put them in. Tl~ OoYC'l'lllTICnt ca.nuot do anyt.hing, and ·want ~) :--hoYe it off on thP barbour board, because Hwv '.V ant to get rid of Jt. [The TREASl:REH: I wvant to show thc.m that the bricks cannot bo :mack• without the stra"\v.] I take you to be a srnart rnan in son1c rl spccts. '•ut you cannot do that. f'r as the Harbour Board Bill is con­

will be all right if we get it on.suit-Itockhampton has got a barbour

board, but tlH!Y have got it on lines they should nPver have allowed. Thcv never should hanl allow~:[ themselv~s to h<l i1umbuggcd in the way they have been. \Ye want a Bill that there is so1ncthlng in. If '"e are not going to get endowment in cash, let us have it in land, so that we can sell it ourselves if the Govern­ment cannot sell it. H w~e arc given t.he land, there will [Jp no difficulty in our getting the money nece:sary, about £250.000, and making the port what it should be. \Ne could have a

Address in Repl,y. [9 JUNE.:J Address ·in Repl;IJ. 369

harbour in Brisbane that, for all commercial p:uposcs, could be made to compete with any harbour in any part of the world, even Sydney; but to talk of making a harbour' board without giving them money, I look upon as an insult to comutOn sense. r do not know whether anyone wants to know how I am going to vote on this amPnclrnent. (Ltughter.) The hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Burrows, looks anxious on the point, and, in order to gratify his anxiety, l may say I am gomg to vote for the amendment.

The TREASLJRER (Hon. W. Kidston, Rocl.:­hampton): I think there is one excellent rewlt which will follow from this debate. For many years back the peopl" of Queenslm•d have been told by a number of gentlemen who sit on the other side pf the House at the present time, and by a large nurnher 11f influential newspaJ1ers, that the L·-•bonr party were gasbags, nnd I think any gentleman who sits on the other Ride of the lion~' will alter hiH opinion when he hearR how the other .-icle hos spob•n, After the long and weary three or four hours' speeches in which the Government have been denounced, I think we will ne\' er hr or that kind of thing said about Labour m3mbers \tny n:ore. E~v'en my friend, the hnn. member for lYlackay, "Poke for three bonr~, and he is a ,L'entletnan who never speaks without entertaining, even if be dnes not instruct the House. It seems to nw, to he serions on the n1atter, that thP striking features of the deb:ttP are-first, the frivnlous 11ature of the charq;es n1adr ag~in£t the G-overnment. am! the s<~cond, the large proportion of the debate that has been tnken np by retailing scandalous rumour .. and Hilly tnendttcities picked up outside. [C;overnment members: Hear hear!] ~~it,hrr the Govprnn1~-nt are withouf serious faults, or the Ooposition have alto­gethc:r failed to take adva;.·uage of their oppor­tnmtJes. It has been very manifest tbat they were eager enough to defame the Unvernn1ent. Smtlf' of the most extraordinary thi· gs \vere pnt forward as charges against the Govern:ment. \Vhy, it was even pnt fnrw:uJ as a blaumble thing ;.,g tinst the PrPnljer, by n1ore than one speaker on that ,ide of the Honsc,, that he had act.u-dly gone tn YVar,''iek! (L~11;cr·hter.) Th Prernier had had the :1ndacity to go homr', and that kind of thing WHR brungl.t up-not by ordinary m,uiJe"', but. by the leading fmnt benehes men on )·.he other 8ide-~ s a. char,;P n_go1i:1-t z-,im. An h1H1. ntedl ber s 1 ated tha~, he bad :--een in the r~e~.'\·spaper that 1\Tr. 1\:i(h;tnn had gone h} Rr"JCkh:tmp on, that i\Ir. }.Ioq;an had gi)ne to VVarwk':, }i.ll11 so (1fl, \Vhen re.spon~;ible rnen on. the ot,her side of thP c:1arrlbPr brir bOUt ,-;uch tlnn~~s ,.~ that, ~11rf'ly the_v have nn cac;e at all. [Governrne11t llh·nl\-~er.,., : I-Iear. bea.r !] [l{c, . D. H. l>ALHY:\IPLE: Th~y b'onght nut ;, gq~ d deal nwre than tlwt.] I may jn't HY th 't wlwn thot>e g"Pll • lempn wtlo now adorn tbe tronr. Opposition he,·C 1l s:at on t.hi . .., bench I fr _·qnentlv said tl1ing,, 1.:vhich mi;ht hav8 l~·d people t_';) suppn~P th.·:-, I did not.think verY highly of thetn as a Go\·en~ 1 1lent-, but I can tell them that the-y shone at that tin1e in comp<,ri-::on with "" h<~t the~· have l!One ~ince. I c-tn tell them Lhat. they ha\·e nwde a very_ n1uch poorer Opposition than they made a G .. vernrnent. [Mr. STORY: Th~!; has to be proved.] [H<'n. D. H. DAL­ltDJPLE: The pnblic do not think '" J I adn1it ~hat that iR a Vt'ry s':.rnng ::-.tatement to make, an extrt:"nle statement; but thP remark­able thing- is that it is true. Take the case of tToneR. The Government were n1:1king an effol't to find further outside markets for Queensland prr•dncers. Now, that is a Jmttter that might well engage the serions attention of the House. It is a matter on which a great deal could be

1904-2A

said pr·o and con; but as :tmatter of fact it has not been diocnssed. It has been absolutely lo··t "ight of. The puhlic interest in regard t•l this fHirticu"Jar matter ha:1 nevE--r bPen arous8d a,t ~tll. The private charaett-r of Jones ha.~ been the thing which has been di;cus-ed. He is used as a brick to heave at the l;overnment. Then with :rt~gard to the central mills the ~arne tbing is true. The Government a•lopted a particuhtr policy in regarri to th•·m which I will dc..l.l Wlth later on ; but that policy haR not been disctu~sed :tt all. The possibleaivanbge·, or rlisadvanteges of that nolicy have >carcelv been di,cnssed at all as CnrnpR.red 'vlth the deRire to abuse or critici~e .Dr. Maxwell as 11 means of getting at the Government. [Hon. D. H. DALBYli!PLE: Dr. Maxwell has not heen abu,;ed.] I take these as Ram pies of t.he criticism, if you can call it criticisrn, which ha8 been indulged in. [lVlr. tiTORY: And that ju,tifies the appointment of Jones ?] [Mr. Sn;PHENS: He will not :-.ay.] ::-.ro, it does not. [wir. STOilY: That is what we ..

·ant to know.] ·whatever fa nits the Opposition may have does not jnstify the appointment of i\.Jr. Jones. I arn not referring to that matter now. I am referring to what seems to me the ,triking featme of this deh:c<e-"nd it is a most regrettable fea.ture--the reta.iling of venon10l1f" slanders and lying rumours-[lYir. FoR:olY'l'H: They are not lying rumours. They are facts, and the hon. gentleman knows it.]-retail­ing thf'~e things a,s if the proper use of this Chamber was that it should be made a place for rehashing ecandal. I have been in this Honse for nine year,;, and I frankly admit. that when I was on the other side I did not mince matters in discussing the conduct of the late Government, and I do nnt now expect hon. gentlemen sittin:.: on the other sirle to mince matter' when they are discus,ing the conduct of this Government. I do noc expect that kind of thing·, and I do not respect a rnan any 1nore if, wilen I do wrong, he is namb~·-pamby in telling mP '!bout it. l think plain sp~ aking is a virtue on either 'ide, and that. is tbe way in which political warfare should he c urieo:l on. But wllat we have had is that Sl meh•dy told some­ho(1v el~e who told the hon. JD~c~rnber ft'r '1\)wns­ville, who then stands up like some political Sarah Gamp---

Sa~·s 1Ir.s. Harriss to me, says she, ··The J.Ior,!.!;an G<netnmcnt ain't no good," sa~:s sh~.

[Hon. D. H. DALP.Y~JPLE: \Vh:;t are the lying ruu1r,urs yrn1 speak of?] 1 wnnld just like to say this rnnch abnutit:: I nave not, the~ pleu 1ure, like smne h(m. In~rnt·Jer~ oppn~ht>, of knowing Mr~ .J~,ne~-, l1nt I ~ny jt is a pnb1ic dil'grace when the char<1cters of J•rivate pt•iJph" are brought into this Chamber >tncl criticised in the w<ty Mr. .Tnnp· 's c'mnacter ha8 been. [L\1r. STORY: It is quite t-vidr:nt r.hat you d(l nnt h:nu\,- l\fr. '!.TonEs.] l \\'0111t.l not know hi1n if n1et him, but it is f""sibh. he m3y have a wife and children, f]\1r. STO!U : \Vhat has that tn do wi'h it?] Of conrs,--} that is no excnse for bh1.n1ing the Govern­rnpnt. If they have dnne wrong blam•J them, bnt for He:l.ven's sake do not slander pri,ate P''ople's character. in this way-[:I.Ir. DTOHY: Therew:;snot a word of slander.j-simply because- yon \Yant a brick to bnrl at. the Gon~nunent. [l\fr. STOHY: We look to the dignity of the State.] Titey do not care a straw about .Tones himself. 'Why, I conld qnote appointments which the late Go· vernm• nt have made which wonld show thatJ t,hey h tV•c far.Je,s regard for the dig-nity of the State thf\n th1' Government, who have appointed Mr. Jones-{:\lr. LESINA: I can mentHm two or three of tb·ir appointments.]- and it is dis­graceful to drag into a debate of this kind the characters of private people and public servants. [Mr. MACAUTNEY: That is a very convenient way

Hon. W. Kidston.]

370 Add1•e&s in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.J Addr-ess ~n Repl,y.

to shelter yourself.] [Mr. LESINA: I can give a liRt of some of their appointments. I have it here. They appointed a notorious thief.] I really can­not under;;tand why the OppoHition so st.rongly objected to the appointment of J ones. I knew it could not be for the reasons given. It was not the apparent reasons that \Vere the n<tl reasons. I could not under.<tand the matter until the hon. member for vVarrego spoke. He told '1S that he enjoye1! the ad ;·antage of having known 1\ir. ,J ones, and he could speak of him from personal knowledge ; and, of cour~f', if Jonea is a friend of that family it may explain why the Oppo8ition have he en eo bitterly oppo8ed to his appointment. [Mr. P . • T. LEAHY: I met the m:>n twice; and I could tell yon more about him.] [Mr. COWAP: That is enough to kill Jones.] [Mr. P. J. LEAHY: I kept too much back.] Apart altogether from party c:ontests, l say this practice of re­tailing- outside ocandal is a poor kind of par­liamentary criticism. If the Govetnment make a mistake let them be blamed for it, but fur Heaven's sake keep out of the debate criticisms of the private character of public servants or employees of the Government. I think the Opposition have only discredited themselves in this matter, and I think an Opposition will always discredit themselves when they use such means for getting at the party in power. But there are worse things than retailing silly, slanderous rumours nf thflt kind, and that is inventing them; and in tl.is matter the member for Bulloo again maintains his bad pre-eminence, and justifies the title by which he is known in the \Vest. He does not content himself with retailing scandal. He starts it. He invents it, and sets it going. Here i• a statement which he deliberately made to reporters, and got printed in the public newspapers. He wao speaking about the commission. He had alleged that Mr. Troup was a business colleague of the Secre­tary for Agriculture, and then he went on to say-

The third member of :he commission was a junior officer of the third class, who had nPver given any indic:ition of ability, as far as knowledge required for his present position, except that be had proved usp.ful for many years to the present Treasurer when he sat in Opposition.

Now, that was not clear enough. There might be some doubt in people's minds as to how Mr. Brennan proved useful to me, and he amplified that when thA Premier was speaking from his place in the House here by saying, "One who had bAen a spy for the Treasurer for years." [The Ho•!E SECRETARY: Shame!] [Mr. RYLAND: Disgraceful, scurrilous!) [Mr. MuLOAHY: He was a spy himself.] Now, the hon. member for Bulloo makes that statement knowing that there was absolutely not a word of truth in it.

The SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. gentle­man is not in order in saying that any hon. member makes a "tatement knowing that it is absolutely untrue, and I must ask him t.o refrain from making such remarks.

The TREASURER: Well, he makes a state­ment--[Mr. J. LEAHY: And I accepted Mr. Grant's denial.]

The SPEAKER: Order !

The TREASURER : He makes an assertion, and if not knowing that it wa,, ahwlutely untrue, he must have made it in utter ignorance of the position, and with a reckless disregard of whether it was true or not. The simple fact of the matter is this, Mr. Speaker: I did not know Mr. Bren­nan at all until after I became Treasurer. My colleague, Mr. Gr:1nt, knows quite well that that is so. [Mr. GRANT : Ye,, quite truo.] Mr. Grant is a personal acquaintance of Mr. Bren­nan's-they got acquainted in Ruckhampton years ago, I believe, and some time last

[Hon. W. Kidston.

year :Yir .. Grant said he would introduce Mr. Brennan to me. Accidentally-perhaps it is as well now-but accidentally, the thing did not come off, and I never had any acquaintance with :Mr. Brennan arrd did not speak to him at all, or ~Ic. Br•=..nnan to rne, uutil after I wa-; Trt>asnrer and I sent for him in regard to this very busi­ne"'· [Mr. 1\IACARTXEY: That is not a cnnclu­t-iive answer.] Is that not a conclu ... ive a.nt-~wer? An English poet has told us, "A lie which is half the truth is ever the blackest of lies.'' [Mr. P. J. LEAHY : Are you telling one?]

The :SPEAKER: Order!

The 'rREASURER : And I have just this to say-that a lie which has no truth in it at all is ever the stupideot kind of lie. [Mr. STEPHENS: 1 believe the business was worked through you and his father.] His father? [:VIr. STEPH!lNS: Yes, his fa~her.] (Laughter.) Well, I am sorry to shatter the belief of the hnn. member for South Bri;;hane. but I never saw Th'Ir. Brennan's father. [:!'vir. -STEPHENS: You saw him in Rnckhampton.] I never saw him, I do not know hin1, and I could not say whether he lives in Rockhampton or not. I could not say where :Mr. Brennan's father lives. I dn not know whether he has a father or not. The )'oint I want to get at is the allegation that ".Yir. Brennan acted as a spy for Kidston, and he has got his r~ward in this uppoint1nent." :Now what, in Heaven'~ nan1e, do I want a spy for? \Vhy should a member of the civil service act as a spy for me? vVhat would he spy about, and whom would be spy upon? \Vhat do I want a spy for? [Hon. D. H. DALRHIPLE: Rever­sionary interest, I suppose.] [Mr. MAcAR'rNEY: He might have compiled the figures that made you.J That is a compliment paid to me. They do not seem to see it, but they pay me a very high compliment. (Government laughter.) They are so struck with the figures that I have given them from time to time that the only explana­tion they have is that I had to get a very capable man out of the audit office to give them to me. [cv1r. MACARTNEY: It would be a case of false pretences.] They do not know that this is a compliment, but I take it as one. Now, let me tell them this-the only spy I had, the only magic I had, was my industry in trying to do my duty in that matter. LGovernment mem­bers : Hear, hear!] I am glad to see the hon. member for Bulloo in his place, as I wish to s>ty to the hon. gentleman-if it is permissible to call him an hon. gentleman--[ Mr. J. LEAHY: I will allow you.] Thank you. I wish to tell him that a malevolent desire to injure a political opponent led him tu unscrupulously say this about a civil servant. It does not matter at all to me-[Mr. J. LEAHY: Disinterested man!] -but I will just say that Mr. Brennan's charac­ter in the department with which he has been associated is absolutely above reproach. [Hon­ourable members : Hear, hear !] He has a repu­tation for doing unpleasant work and standing to it. As a matter of fact, the first tin1e I ever heard of JYir. Brennan was wben he did a rather courageous thing in connection wit~J. the Rock~ h>tmpton Hospital. [The HoME SJWRETARY: Hear, hear!] [.Mr. RYLAND: Lollk at the good work he did in connection with the Brisbane J\1unicipal Conncil.] [Mr. l'.lAOAR'l'NEY: He is one of the best auditors in the service.] He io a man who bear,; the very highest character. [:Ylr. 1\IACARTXEY: He is one of tbe best men you have got.] He is not only a good auditor, and a man who io capable of doing his work as an auditor, hue he is a man who is perfectly trustworthy in every way. [Government mem­bero : Hear, hear !] He is a man of the very highest character in the public service, morally and intellectually. Now, for the sake of get Ling

Address in Reply. [9 JuNJI.J Addre&s in Reply. 371

.at me, or for the sake of getting at the Govern­ment generally, snrely it is a cowardly thing to act in this way to a public servant. Upon my word, 11r. Speaker, the thing that surprihes rr1e is tlut hon. members on the other side~shall I say honourable men on the other side~clid not repudiat~ this kind of thing fr<>m the hon. member for Bulloo. They rather sat and appla.udr d it. [Government rnt~rrl IJers : Hear, hear!] \Vit.h the solitary excep~ion of the hon. member for Soutll Bri~bane, J\Ir. Larnont, who r.epudiated the thing, ll<>t ;:~~ rneinber on the othHr side !las bad the d< ency to fr,>wn on this kind of thing, althoug!1 thuy have been a.s·mred over a,nd over again th<-tt there \Vas nnt a W•Jrd of truth in it. If the Govermnent are to bla•ue, let the Opp•>­sitinn blame thern, and bhme thern ~:::-1 <:;trongl.~/ .11s they are able to do. 'l'hat is tlH·ir duty ; but

let private people a·,d public ser­[7 p.nt.] va.ots >~l•me. This st>ttement was

started by the hon, memlwr f<1r Bulloo. I h>Lve beard it in a d"zen different fLlrins, and I cauniJt nnderstctnd wh:v 111u1 with any sense of responsibility at all shonld start such a thing, unless ther do it on the nssu1nption that once a ttring is started it is very h:trd to overtake i1~. l-Ien~ is a staterr1ent made by the hon. rnernber for 'roowong in c~mnection with the same affair. He said--page lG~ of Han­sard~

I was told to-day by a prominent eivil servant that if Mr. Rrennan is not a relative of the Treasurer's, be is married to a young lady who, it' not an actual relation, is an adopted danghter or ward.

Mr. Grant interjected, "There is no sort of truth in it," but that did not mako the slightest differ­ence; the hon. member did not stop and retract, and say he was Sl>rry for 1naking a statement of that sort. Hon. members will see that this was far leRs an imputation a:gu.inst me than it was agtinst a civil senant. [The H0}£E SECRETARY: And more so against the man who made it.] Unfortunately that is not true, f,r the hon. member for Bulloo can make statements like that, and yet not injure his own character at all. That is the curious thing about it; nobody thinks any the worse of him; even his own colle,<gnes do not think any the worse of him for making such a statement. [Mr. HAWTHORN : That's impossible.] And people laugh aud s~y that that is only another J ananias. But I think it is to be regretted~! do not say by every man, but by every sensible man-that public life should be degraded in this way. \Vhat an irony it is for us to call each other "honourable," when men c:tn do a thing of this sort and not be ashamed l ~ow, we have heard a gre ~t many nun ours about the present Gnvernment, but there have also beeor rumours about the present Opposition. I was told some tw<• or three w~eks ago~and I will dete.il this, not becau'e it is scandalous, for there is no sc"ndal about it, hut only because it has to do with my opponents opposite~ I was told that Mr. Philp w .s to be deposed as leader of the Opposition, and that the hon. member for 1\Jaranoa was to take his [Jlace, and when that was accomplished eight obliging g·entlemen on this side were to ,go over aud defeat the Government. \Nhat particnlar ques­tion the pre"3ent Govern1nent were going to hA defeated on was not stated, bnt that was of no comequence. It was not a question of p·•licy ab all; but looking through the C1 llll'Re of this \Veary debate, it is plain that the real offclice of the Government is that they are in offico, [Govern­ment members: Hear, be.tr !] I do not know who started the rnrnour, whether it \Vas s~arted by the newspapers, but we kno ,' it was bruited about that certain hon. m<-mbers sitting opposite were tbe only men in Queeo,laod that this State could not do without~they were the only men that could carry on the busi-

nees or the Government in Queensland. But they have since discovered that they are not only not 1 he only men that Queensland can do without, but that we can get on much better without tbem~[Government members: Hear, hear !J~and they can't stand that, and for any rea''"lt they must put the present Government ont. If the present Government were put out of office, "nd the hon. member for Maranoa, Sir Arthur Rutledge, became Premier, the next step in the proceedings was tbctt it would be found that the p<Jlicy of the present Government in having only now four judges in the Suprerne Court, was a very unwise policy, and, of cours8, they would find the most suitable man to fill the vacancy in the judgeship, and the whole result of thi" wonld be that the hon. member fnr Bulloo would become Premier. [Gnvern~ rneut men1bers: Hear, hear!] That hon. nletn­ber retnind~ rue of an lri'ih blnnderbuFl" I onee heard of. 1 have noticed that in every depart­rrJ.ent in which he ha~ b8en rnanager he is like that blunderbus"-more dang-erou, to thoHe be­bind it tl>an to tbo,e in fr •nt of it. (Laughter.) I must say that, while I am sorry for the hon. men1ber for Bnlloo bPcause l Jn1ve aJwuv:-.; bad a liking for tha.t hon. g·"ntlf,mHn, I do n;>t think he has been very f .irly r.reatni by hi~ olNn party -although that is their lmsinc:-;s-so f~r as I an1 concerned I he"ve not the slightest objection to the hon, member fur l3nl!no ,:ett.ing into power. The most scrvicable thiug t bat c.,n ha;>pen to this party is for the tJOn. member for Bnlloo to get into power. [An honcmrabk member: You do not want him there; for all that.] I would be very plea'·.ed to see it. Now, I would just like to say a word about a matter that has been made a

1 great deal of, and that is what is calJ..d the appointment of Dr. Maxwell by the present Go· vernment at £3,000 " year. M:;· friend the Sec­retary for Agriculture has made a very full explanation of the matter, and there are a great many details I shall not touch at all, bnt I may just say that the Gnvprment did not appoint Dr. :\1axwell at £3,000 a year. They found Dr. Maxwell employed at £3.000 a year, and they doubled his work~[Hon. E. B. ]'ORREST: And extended his term.J­and extended his term by one year. The hem. member for Musgrave, Mr. \Vhite, and the hon. member for TownsYille, l'l1r. Philp, have both asserted that Dr. Maxwell i~ not able to do so mnch work, [Hon. D. H. DALRHIPLE: He was fully employed.] \Vith all due rleference to those hon. rDembers, who presn1ne to know a

, good deal about it--[Hon, D. H. DALRYMPLE: ' 'l'hey know a great deal more than you do about

it.] That is not saying much, then. \Vith all ' due deference to those bon. gentlemen, surely

Dr. ;\Iaxwe!l should know something about that mr1tter himself. He believes he is quite capa· ble of overtaking that work, and the Govern­ment believe that he is quite capable of over-

: taking that work, and th t is why he was appointed; and despite all the adverse com­ments that have been made about Dr. Maxwell in regard to this matter, I find that in the sugar districts--except perhaps around Bundab,rg, where the peoj,le, for some reasons or other, have got a down on Dr. :\1axwell~the appointmPnt is hailed with delig-ht from Bnndaberg to Mackay, [Opposition members: No.) The official organ of the sugar-growers, The Sugar Journal, edited by an oprconent of the present Government, owned by an opponent of the present GnvFrn­ment, wno does not make it any seen t that he i8 an opponent of the pre,ent Government~I think both hon. members fer Macke~y will admit that he knows something about the question, and is a very capable man to boot~he looks upon the appointment of Dr. J\!Iaxwell to this position with the most pronounced favour, with the

Hon. W. Eidston.J

372 Address in R9pl_y. [ASSEMBLY.] Address ~n Repl,y.

str,1ngest possible approval. However, putting· aside all carping and small-minded critici"m of Dr. l\tlaxwell, wha,t \Vas the 1ctual pot'ition of affairs when the Government took offce '? Tbe pot'ition in rr,{ard to thP- central sugaJ>rnills was well-nigh bopeles'. [Mr. \, HITE: I deny it.] As a m.ttter of Let, many well-informed people declared in this House that it was altogether ~hopelt>:'S, and thf~r .. are ::;ome people even now- people who know a great deal abont the sugar bnf.;inet:is-who an~ excet-"dil!gly doubtful whether '-"Y action that the plHPnt Government can take can pull thPbc mills out of the tire. [ffon. K ]3. FonHEST : That only applie,c. to a portion of them, not the whole of them.] [:VIr. vVHITE: To the minority.] [Hon. E. B. :B'ommsT: Five out of thirteen.l There wa' between £500,000 and £600,000 ot public money in very serious danger of h• ing utterly lost. [Hon. E. B. :B'onHEST: Tber<> is £:iOO,OOO on as good security as yon h ... ve got in Queerhland. J I will "how the hon. m Amber for North Brisbane that, however much he kno\~S abt)ut ~ngar, he evidently dof'S r.ot know anything abnutthe central mills when he makes that l'itaten1ent.. T!.e position of the cane­growers, and f Vt:>n of the shareholders in the rnills, was becoming rnore and ntore hopele~~s year by year, and if the central mill system broke down I venture to "'Y that the ques­tion as to whether sugar could be grown by while labour in Qnec nsland would o !so be hot:elec~. 'fhat was the position when the Government took office. [i'>fr. ·WHITE : It was the drought.] I will tdl the hclll. member whether it was the drought or not. Under tho:-;e circnrnstances the Governn1ent askel~ Dr. JVIaxwell to rer;ort upon the condition of those mills, and he was absolutely the best all-round man ti1e Governrnent could have got to make such a report., and the Government flave ~1cted­a:.:; hon. n1en1hers l~no1.~' quite well, the report having been laid on the tab\e-in accordance with the report of Dr. Max-;ell. That rpport showed a very bad po,ition of aff<1irs iH reg:trd to the central sugar· mills. l<'urther in Vt"Htiga· tions which have !)ten 1nade since h::tve t,hown that the positwn WP."· not better than Dr. Max­well 3tated it to be, but very much wor ,e ; anc: when Rtill fnrt.lv~r invP~tigationt> ar' made, Iny belief is that we shall find that the prJ'itioll is still worRe than the pnsition I mn going tu give the lionstJ. l-Ien'! is thP po:~ition of t!H~ Gn\lern­mellt mills: I ask thP hon. nwmber for "North Brisb::-~nP to pay attf'ntion to these fclCtf'. ~f'hE're aro fouri;PI-'ll n1ill}':. Threp of those n1ills are not jn arrearR. ThP origin:_l ad vane~:·-.; to thm~e r11ills \\:ere £101,000, and after many years 1 working-good se:1,;;rms and bad ~-.;ea,(•ns-Lhey ow·j tn-day £1ii0,000. There are elPven millA in ar,·ear,, They bo• rowed frotn the G-ovf-•rnrnent £-124,000, anrl. their present inrlebtedne'" iR cl:fi02,000. Tbose ele•:An 1nilis have gone to thP br-1d dudng those y< ctl"il to the ex rent of £1K,OOO [i'>lr. WHITE: Yon ha\·e not gi\-·p:o cn-dit for th8 extensionR.j [FI.m. D. H. DALHD!l'Ll': No. ~rh8re \.as addltional ca.y~ital t·X}Je-nded on in1-provemPnts ttnU tranlways.] Tba.t, i.-. the financial P"·'ition of those miils. [Hon. K B. FoRRE8T: That iil unt ''fair\, ay of stctting it.] I do not wish to shtn this caRe unfairly. I have no intereRt in ,[,,tin,:, it unfairly, \Vhy sh"nld I state it unfair'y? [Hon. D. H. ll.nnniPLI·~: You may not understand.] rrhere arH the official figures supplied to me. [Hnn. E. B. FoRREST: There is a ).,t behind the official figure".] I am stating the present condition of tho'e mills tu ~-how that, a.fter rnany yean;' working, the broad retml~ iti that they are £7B,OOO worse 1Jff, apart altogether from depreciation in m"chinery, and other thing" that would J,robably lead to the necesRity of writing down the capital largely.

[Hon. W, Eldston.

That is the position the Government found. Not to speak of the gener"l taxpayers at all, tbe

·position of the caneg:rowers themsel Yes, and the position of the mill sharehrJldc~s thems•·lves, was bt'Coming nwre and more hopcles~. \-Vhen we found ourselves face to face \vith such a position, what sh(lu]d the C}ovCr.dlllE'nt have done? Should we have f'.tood by, helpJe>").;; aud resourc< les~, HH our 1Jrf-dece~~ors did--con1 inued the ea,''Y policy nf let it a1onP, let it ,, hrle­a.nd s Pll £300,000 lWH'f~ of public mont:y ab~oM lutely lo·<, a deadly blow struck at the sugar industry of QueenslP,nc!, and certainly " deadly blow stnwk at the growing of f'ng<.wr by ,jhite labour in Qnr-C->lhhmrl, and thnusands <,f CtJ.neM

growers ruinecl? [Hon. R. PIIILI': '.f[,e sugar crop is iiO per cent. better this y••ar tha11 last yrar, n.nd that cane was planted bc--:fore you came into office.] I ;;un not Rpeaking abou1; the ::ngar crop this year, bnt about the position v, hen the Goverr~ment took offic~..·. I am sb(J\ving what the broad resnlts of the policy of let-;;lone have been. \Vhat did the late Governuent do? They carted money to tb ·se milh "ithont laking any mnrce trouble about it, and let the directors make" ducks and drakes d it. They saw all that was going on and did not rai'e a finger to stop it. [Hon. R. PHILP : Incorrect, erery wmd of it.] I am not ,peaking-althoug-h I do not pro­fess to be an expert on this question of central mills-I am not speaking without having paid some attention to the m;ctter, .md I fomrd that that "as Ectually what bad taken placB ith regard to those mills-the Govt rnment sinrply carted the IlH>ney to them, and allowed the director" to make ducks and drake., of it, with­out taking any stt·p.-:; at all to ha Ye any hnsine~-;s control over them. [Hon. R. PH! LP: You are tn.lking absolute nonst'!lSt>.] I ::5ay this-ar;cl it L a thing that every member of the Hnu,e, who knows anything at all about this qnestiun, knows is qnite true. I-Ion. men1bers nnt~t not talk before they hear what it is; to say the lea,t, that does not evidence :"Ln impartial mind. That is, that continuing the old let-alone p<>licy was utterly hopeless. [Hon. R. PHIL!': 'rbere was no let-alone poliey at all.j \Vbate\"er m:>y be said abllnt the Government-as tu wl etl;Pr we took thP right action or thP \\ rong action-this, at leaRt, can f1e said on beb tlf n[ the G(;vern~ n1ent: that 'V8 took ::l'Jme actinn; \Ve a!: least made "'me effort to pull this busim ; nut of the fire. And apart a1tof{ether frorn fJart~· or per"'onnl fedings in this 1natter, I S<lY tbat this I-Jonse and the c 1nntry hn ve VPr ~-;·o():l r(~ason~> indeed to h()pe that, the Govc:·nn1t->nt· will bR succesp.fnl in what thev h8vc done. (H:ar, h»ar !) They have ll 11f. diSCUS~-d th ,t aspect. of the ll1fl.ttpr at all. \llhat 1-.hey ha.\'P l)e n di cu--~iw: i,..; tha.t we have n.ppointed the "· man. \Vk:tt a silly tl!ing for fl::'jll'esentclt.in~s the tn cn1ne here n,nd fis ht H·bPnt ! But Pr had been appointed tht-~ Op] o~ition wonlc.l hnn:~ P1.id he \.a.·; th~ Wl''rll:( lPa.n. 1'hi-· thirJg i::; trll.t'J :.;nrdy, tt•e Gn\'ern1nent. a.ppointf-cl S! n1e HlP.n. and it viras high time :.:::OH>t; man w:1s :~.pi·oiJJted. I would lih, here to 't a statement made the ol-,her night; hy ~fr. ~mplJell, the hem. mPlnber fnr lVlor.,.·t(,n. ahont. thP n1a•1agenJent of the ::\'ambour mill. \Ye bad a lung b sed on his aili'gation that a ne\V rrwnager beer "PPO;nted there at ~KOO a year. I hold in lllY hand a nwmo. fro1n the def artnifllt ::-aying that the gen 1 len1ttn in qnt-stion receivet', £600 a year, a,nd that the rE·n-~lt of tbe arrarwement '"'ill he a '3aving tLh" of £350 a y~ ar. lie Bl~n a eh as rnechanical in~peclor of all central rniliR in the southern discrict, with the re,ult thaG an engineer will be dispen:-;ed \vith who 1s now l'etti11g £350 a year. Although I mention that fact, I do not sn ppose it will affect the opinion of the hon. memberfor Moreton, although he based

Addrrss in Reply. [9 JUNE.] Address in Reply. 373

alon6 and dabora be argument on thic man getting £800 a Y< •tr. [Mr. CAii!PllELI,: vVby did ll't you Ct;rrcc'L it the other nightY] I thought if I corTt~cted hitn at the time, he would deny what I said, .tnd that it was ju"t as well to let the hon. men1ber go ahead. I correct hiin now in the beliet th:ct w!·en be finds he has made a 1nistake in that n1atter he >.vill of cnurse vote with the Government. I would just like to say this iu ::L1l seriousne-'-·S, a}Jat·t from either public or pew•nal feeiing in the matter: thal the effort th~t is being maue by meanR of Dr. C\I,xwell­and l•,t me teil the hon. member for Townsvil!e that whccn he s»id Dr . .!Yiaxwell was not" bnsi­ne~.-; rnan, he only showAd that he did not know Dr. JVIaxwell-the effort ti1ctt is being made by mt:ans of Dr. ?vlfJJxwell to pu11 this bu~in~·· ·,B out of the fire is a matter in which not only this H<'use but the general taxp •.yer of the State and the \V hole of 1 he sugar industry is so n1uch interPstr d that if th"re was any spirit of patriot­·isrn in h1m, n1embers opposite, however much they might find fault with the Government in other matters, they would have rather encour­aged them for doing this, fHon. R. PHILP: \Vas it not his business to look after the sugar in­dustry?] That was exactly the business for which the hon. g-entlem<m brought Dr. Maxwell here and paid him £3,000 a year. vVe have kept Dr. Maxwell to his business and given him more of it to do. [Hon. R. PHILP: You have given hin1 charge of the rnill.:l as rnlll 1nanagcr.] The hon. member for To" nsvilln will permit me to correct him. Dr. Maxw• li is not the mill n1auager; h1 is tho nHttL ....:;u· of the rnill m~uw.g·er:-;. (Lnnghter.) 1 bellt!ve, although the

c.mdltion of thP:.>e rnilb is very [7'30 p.m.] critical, tlmt. if Dr. Maxwell gets a

fair chance there ifj :1, rea:::;on<t.U1e probabilit,y that he \vill pnll that hut'ine~..; out of the fire. [Hon. D. H. DALHBIPLE: \V e have got g•Jod sec1sons.] [:\Ir. \VHITE: He will spend more money.] [.z;fr. PAGET: He mu't h<l.ve a fair priee to m:~ke ~ profit.l \\'re have :1 fair sea~;on, and hope. for thP sake of Qnee.nsland, anrl for the ,_kt~ of the c:--tlH:'g'rnwer.:' at r ho:-;e millH, that thr_·_Y v\'ill have a C•Jntinuathm 1•f the fair se:lS<ms. [Hon. :K R. :B'oRREST: Then tlHy would not want Dr. :vlaxwell at all.] [Mr. BAllBER: Th•"Y would, all the same.] The hon. TI18Illber for Brisbane I\' orth doeB not. see whv we \V .~nv d Dr. 1\{a.xwell ,•t a,ll. I wou;d point out that it ic: nnt at all nece:-;;:.:~ry for him to s.ee it; it was o:dy nect":-~s;1ry f,,r th (}o,·1?rntnG<lt to Sfle it. [hu.n. E. B.· .F'oHRENT: 'T'h-v ;-1.re not Hll Quc•('lh·lau 1] The G•1Vt·rnment i.., (~nefmsland in thi"' matt~-r to the f•xtellt t.hat. t!my \Vere l'e.-:<pon­siblP fnt' thb time being for dtJing the best they con1d for (tne~·nsla.nd, ·:~cl n~>t.-..vith~;t" lndin{ all the carping \hat ha.' taken plact', I am honestl.~· )Jer"'uadc._.:1 that tl1e Govcrnlli~--'Ilt ha\·~--' dnne the Le~t for Q~H~!:'lsL.nd, and tha_ the people will finc1 it ouC 7 ·vhetht'r tbe Gover!\1Tient. r n1-dns in nftice or not, unie~~ the rnattPr i." ~~poq1 by an un~~ytnpathetic G"vernment. [Gnvernnwnt r~lt·1n­ber< : Hear, h< ..er !] [Hon. :K B. FOimEST:

you are gnne. J \Vhen we ar gone. thiugs ha\'e happe:1ed -in cmlnfction with martrcrs. The L>tncl Act of 188± "''" S[Joilt

by a:n nn:Sy·npathetic GllVet·nn~f·nt. et: ter it camP. into operation. There is anotht•r n1attt>r I \Yould likt:~ to dpe;,k abou< The h •n. u1em1Jer for Bul1oo, wht>n he wp":-:. 8peaking Lt~t ni~ht, ~\-'8R refer­Ting in ag,·nentl '\'8"Y to the railwa.ys, of ·which he kno .. v/') a great. de:tl, and about Lhe ~ ct d.ng effectt·d by the GoYernment, atwnt whlch he dot: not, know much, and thi; is whftt he eaid. He said that last year-and i \nnt hon. gentlemen to notice the point-hP had pnt a sutn of money on tho EstirrLl.teti for thP purpose of fllaintaining the new lines-Rockharnpton to G-ladstone-, Kilkivan to Coolabunia, and the line to Cooloon-

gatt·t. He· said distinctly that we had taken all the e<J,rnings of those line; and put them into revenlH', and we had at the .sarne time charged the maintenance of them to loan. Now, that was nnt only a serious accusation rru~de against the ::\linister for J{ailways-it \Vas irnputing the falsifica· ion of public accounts Hgain,t the Minister for Railways-but it wa-; making the san1e imputation agaillst the c(ltlllrtissioner for Railways, because the thin;~ cnnld not be done without the connivance of the C1•1nmissiuner. I again vrotest ag-aiw~t this continual bringing of public xervants into the political arena ::iurely we can differ with one another and criticise one another with all the vig-our of \Vhich \Ve are c3.p­able, without making public sen·ants r·sponsible for our sin>! [Govrrnrnent 1nen1ters: Hear, hear!] I think it is utterly discreditable. I have here the hi,tory of the whole bu,ine'>; I have gone to tlw Commissioner for I{ail wavs about it. In the firot place, the.hon. member for Bu1Joo, when he ""'S Minister for Railways, did not place £10,000 on the Bstirna1oes for the maintenance of the railwavs. [Gol'ernment members: Oh, oh!] [Hon. B.. PHILP: \V as there no provision made fur Lhem in the Estimates?] Y <', there was pro vi ,ion made for them, and I will tell you what it was. The Chief Engin<•er a,ked for £321,000 for maintenence. The Commissioner, in guing throug-h the l~st] 111ate~, red need that amount to £312.000, and that was the amount put on the E-;t-imate:; ; RO you \Vill f;.€8 that before the l\finister for Rail ways sav .. ' th1:- Esti­mates at all they were g-iven as £:i21,000. and the E>:>tim~tet5 that cnn1e beforP the 1-Ion.""e was £312,000. You ba1·, to louk in more than one place to get tb<Lt £312,000. £30i>,OOG is Lh•, largest HUlll on the _Estimate.::~ f\lr nw_intPna.··cP, but then· areotl1er items whic.1 nnb-up the£312,000. So that it i~ ab~olutf-'lv incorrt et for the b.' P. YI in­i>ter for RtiL>ay, t•; P ,_~.that hP plueoed £10.000 on the b:sdrna.tes for the. n1ainten:1nce of those raii"ays [.'IIr . . J. LE.\HY: I nevers,id .£10,000; I SJid I p] ,ced .1 :-;tnn l)n the .E::..timat.f :::<, It was not speelfic-·lly nHmri.~ned. The arrwunt W:lS

incn '"ed by £14,000 la't ye,:cr.J The hon. 111Pillber aid no", pLice :UJyt.hing- on the E-;tilnates. [l),Ir .• J. IJE~\JIY: I an1 sure y()n didn't.] The hon. HH:·mb-r for B~~n~~o, \Vhen be IA'a~ .1\Jini ... ter for Railways, did Lot speciall~v put anything on t'le 1;stinmtes at,,)[. l \lr. ,J. Ll,;AHY : I did not say tt1a~: I :;aid I 1ncrHt..,ed t.h· E::-~itHates by the :necessal~y 8UHL] \Vhat wa.;:; done with the }!:,c-;tim~tf··--; wa~: 1· hP V wer~· strnck down horn £:521,000 to £312,000. [i\!r. ,J. LEAHY: The Estimat-. for last year is £14,000 tlJ()r>' t.h:m it co':'t tn run the railways the :fP'1r b~f~n·c'". \VtH:tt was tile Jl11,000 put rhwn for ?] [Hon. D. IL DALRBlPLE: 1 t is only a quibble.]

The SPEAKER: Ord,,r!

The T!{EASURER: I would just like the l{ o11Se to uLder~taud the p11~j tion. Up till 18HG, l thirJk, it wa.:-; the cu, torrl of thf' Gnvt'rn­ment 'd1en buildi1:g railway;:; b,\' contr;.-tc -·as they vn-:re ;:.~Jl bnilt by contraet up ~o thaJ, tiulP­it was tile cn.;tt•In of the Go\'erJ1lllf.' 1Jt to cau.'je the C()ntractor to maint.ain the rail •.v;-tys f, 1r six 111011 hs aftf'r the builclinr:- was finir-hed. That conrllt;lOn wa -.taLI:d in tht~ C\JUt.l et, and of CO'll' .~~ tll· Gnn~rlnnt>nt had t.n pay for that 1n<tinrenanee. \YhP,n ;:t new li;:e i~ built: for 50!llH nwnthR af:,envards there is n tendencv to sub ',idenee on ther~dhvay. r n lRR7 it V.'<Ul d\ cided to adt•IJl annther p1dicy, and to takeo-.'er th{' rail ways from tl•econtr<:--~ctors \V hen tht y were finished The question tht-n WfL3 how n1u0~1 was charged tu loan for the maintenance of the railway immediately aft--r they were taken ovPr-that is, lPgithnately chargeabl0 to loan, and it was decided then that the period should be four months-that the cost of n,aintaining a new rail-

Ban. W. Kidston.]

374 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

way should be charged to loan for four months. [Mr. J. LEAHY: Nonsense. It is a wrong practice, and should not be done.] If the hon. gentleman will only wait I will give him all the necessary details. Some years ago we adopted the system of building railway" by day labour, and the present Commissioner decided that day­labour lines should be treated exactly in the same way a, otlier lines were tre>tted [iYir. ,J. LEAHY : The Commissioner has no power to do it.] The hon. gentleman knows he cannot put me off when I want to say a thing. [JHr. J. LEAHY: You are off there.] The Commis­sioner decided that lines built by day labour should be treated exactly the same ae contract lines. [Mr. J. LEAHY: The Commi"ioner has no ]Jower over loan money.] He decided that the m>tintenance of these railways, »fter c.nnpletion, should for four months be charged to lnan. [Mr. ,J. LlcAHY: The Premier denied it ln.ot night .. ] [The I'HRMnm: I cht>llenged your Hbtemdrt tilat there had bf'en any de­parture.] I think I can Rettle tLe matter by ret\ding the Comrni:..:~ioner's ::~tatemenL. [Go­vernmenl members : Hear, het>r !] [Mr. J. LEAHY : You fall back "n &n ofl'•cer.] \VPll, I regret very much having to do thi,, but the Comrnissioner ha.s Ln'l.'n ch11rgecl by ;::~n ex­}Iinister wit . doing an illegal thin~;. [Mr .• T. L~AHY: ="o, he W>lS not.] He charged bo~h the Cornrnit<Hioner and the .LVIinh::ter with doing- an il!t•g:d thing, t>nd I think I wm1ld be utteriy un­worthy of the pobition I hold if I did not make lmowu the trnttr about it. [Mr. J. LEAHY: Any truth you like to utter bears uut my state­ment.]

The a~nount asked for by the Chief I·:nginecr for additional milP.age was £:1,PW.

The hem. member for Bulloo does not even know what the amount ''as. He baid £10,000. [::\Ir. J. LEAHY: I put £14,000 extra on. I a;ked the House for the money,]

Tbcre is uo record in the Commissioner'::. office that the Jiinister increased the estimate in any respect whatever.

[Government members: Hear, hear!] [:\lr. ,f. LEAHY: lt is on the Estimates themselves th»t I did increase them.]

As regards the strdement tbq,t cost of maintaining new hHes was charged to loan inRtead of to revenue, I can only sav t·1at the practice all along in QuPensland has been to rharge the early stages of maiuten,-mce to loan. Lp to tlle year 1~86 it wa~ the }Jraetiee for con­tractor::; to maintain the raiJ.ways for a period ot' six monttiR: after handing them over, and this, of cour~e. was inclnded iu the amount. of the contract.

[Mr. J. LEAHY: I said that hst uight.] In 1:"''36, however, tlie systen was altered, and since

then it has been the practice for the department to take over the lines when completed by the contractor, and to charge the co:~t of the first four months' mt:dntenance to loan.

[Mr. J. LEAHY : There lmve been very few lines built since.]

The present Commit:~Jioncr decided that tl1e J>r;tctice of clwrgiug tlle first fonr months' maintcn-1uce to loan should also be applied to raihY<l.j'S cou struct '2d by the de­partment on the day labour ~:;y~tern, as well as to those constructed under contract. Accordiul!ls the cost of the first four month,,~,' maintenance on the Ncrang, Esk, Kilkivau, Richmond. and Atherton extensions, a~:; well as on the connection between <iladstone :-1nd Rock­hampton, has been charged to loan r:rhe maintenance for the period of four montht.> has in e~wh case been charged to loan.

[Mr. J. LEAHY: You are not disputing my o.tate­ment; you are only proving· it.] ·what bas been done thi< year is exactly what ha' been done since 1887. [Mr. J. LEAHY: Tbe loan money is going into revenue all the same.] I will tell the

[Ran. W. Kidston.

hon. gentleman about revenue in a minute Here is the official statement of the pa~ments rnade from loan for n1::tintenancf:', anrl anyone who looks at the statement will see that the pay­ments stopped at the fourth month after the line was finished. [Mr J. LEAHY: I did not say it did not.] The Nerang to Coolangatta stopped in Jmmary, the Kilkivan to Coolebunia stop~'ed in .January, the Gladstone toRockhamp­ton stop]Jed in January, and thestcond sect.ion of the line went on to April, the four! h month after it v.as taken o,·er. The ,ame applies to the Hughenden to Hichmund line. There is the official evidence that the statement rr,ade by­the hon. member for Bu!loo last night was utterly without foundation. [Government members : Hear, hear!] [Hon. D. H. DALRYJIIPLE: In shows that he" was quite correct.] [:Mr . • T. LEAHY: Ynu have proved it up to the hilt.] [The PrmMIEI\: That is proof that your st»te­D.wnt ir~ ab~nlnte]y incorn--ct, anrl I chnied it on tbe authority of the C<mmri,siomr.] I will tell the hou. genth.'Jnan about revenue-, in 1eferPnce to which he hnH had a great deal to say. [Mr. .T. LEAHY: '\Vhere are you quoting from ?j I am quoting frmn 2~n doqlwnt speech delivered by tbe bnn. meinher in the H.llU~(-' 1ast njght. [Mr. ,). LK\HY: \Vhat report?] The Han8a1"d report. The "peech delivered by the hem. member for Bulloo. [Mr .• T. LEAHY: There is a gre»t deal of tht>t which is wrong in the figures. They ]JUt in millions in·,tend nf thousands in some case>. (Government Lughter.) If the lv_m. g'entleman wantt'i to give nw a free hflnd in critimsing his speech lai-t evening, I will s:ty that it was tnnvorthy of hinL I quite recognise the ability of the hon. gentleman, of a l<ind, t>nd I think he has frittered a" ay his opportunities. Now, with rev.ard to thiH matter ol tbe railway revenue he fia.id-

During the th·st three months tlw hoD. gcntlema..n had really eollected £11,000 or £12,000 more than he earned in that time.

I ho]Je hon. members will remember thnt I 'hawed >tt tl e end of last ye:cr thP, broad result of that first three months dming which the bon. gentleman says we collect ·d £11,000 more- than we earned; thPre was a de'lrit of £lG2,000, and it was not I who collected it., but my h'iend and predecessor, :Mr. Cribb. [i'llr. J. LE \HY: The a~nount of outstanding debts wss £18,000, and it was £GO,OOO at the end t•f Sept mber.} But it seem" the hon, member for Bulln••, even when he is .speaking about a thing he ought to know something of, and when it would _f'ni~. him better to tell the truth, canrwt. du it. It w• ulrl hav<' suited him far better to tell the truth, because it would ha\B exp\tined wh:v they went out of office with a deficit of £162,000. The ex]Jlana­tion is this : In the month of June last, the last month of last financial year, they paid in £11,000 hy a cheque front the Rail­way Department which had not been received. Th.ey bumped up the railway revenue las' year by £11,000, when the m<•nt•y had not been received. [Government members: Oh, oh !] [Mr. J. LEAHY: There was £42,000 ap-ainst th<>t.] The first thing I .cairl when I hec;,m•· Treasurer, and knew that this kind of thing "as going on­and I am not particubrly blaming the hon. member for Bulloo for l:1ving done this-it had been the practice for year,-I do not lm .. w when it started, b11t it is a bad practice~I said to the CommisBinner: "It muRt stop at once. Let us get in each mont,h the a.ctu::d rPvenue rec0-ived in each month." Ho said I might need it at the end of the yeRr. I said it was VEry probable I would m·ed it, bnt I was not going to have it whether I needed it or not; and, it am here on the 30th June, the amount stated for the railway revenue will be what has been received

Address in Repl_y. [9 JUNE.] .Address in Repl,y. 375

from the railways. [Government members : Hear, hear !] At the same time, I may juot point out t!utt, whilA a p!am statement of the truth would have suited the argnment of the hon. memher for Bulloo better than fiction­[Mr. J. LEAHY: I told the absolute truth.] -tte really could not condescend to tell the plain truth. [Government members: Hear, hear!] [.Vlr. J. LEAHY: \Vhat is untrue about it?] I would now like to say a word about the matter of retrenchment, and ab •ut the com­mission that was appointr 1. I have said over and over ag"in that it is a poor kind of way to attack the Government by a busing those whom the Go_vernn1ent ernplny. [Goverrnnent lnetn­bers : Hear, bear !] \Vbeth,-r the Government were right or wrong in the appointment "f that CO•nmi,sion, whether they chns' the right men or not, it. is the hard fact that the Government got t'XCf'llent service frmn tho.~·e three 1nen. [Government members : Hear, bear !] Tbe men may have beHn mistaken, they may have made a bad recommendation, but they worked like Troj,.tn:.::, and I am 3.mes~ly Ct)nvinctd-who know >tll about it--the hon. me m her for North BriRbane ~hakes his bead, lmt he dnes not know any< hing about it. [Hon. E. B. :b'onnR~T : Yes, he does.] [The PREMIER: He ie a re,pecter of persons.] [Hon. K B. ]'OHREm: I am no respecter of pe1son ... ] I kno\V how these 1nen worked, I know what the-ir instructi\ ~ns were. an cl I know we could not possibly have got llwre earnef, t service from any three m'·m, no matter who they were. [Government members: Hear, hear !] Every hon. me Ill ber knows that no J\finbter likes to retrench. Xo 'Minister cuts do ...v:n salarieH or dismif:ldeR n1en for the fun of the thing. [Mr. ,J. Ll!:AHY: No; it is befonl he becomes a Minister that he '''111ts to do it.] Ye.~. anrl It was before the hon. member for Bullo" htcan1e a Minister HJ'lt he wanted to do H. [Government members: He:cr, hear!] [:i\Ir. J. LEAHY: I did it afterward,,, t~>o.] It is much easier t!, do a plea~ant thing- and iTicrease wageR than to cut, them down. \Ve h>tve been treated to a great, df:'::Ll nffalse sentiment ovPr this. Some of it, I ar!l bou.nd to say, waR quite sincere, tnrr P-fonrtt1s of 1t, I am alt:;O bound to say, was u~erP P?litic.'l.tl froth, or a 111ere pa:1dPring-and a. di,;credJtable pcmderin~-to the civil service V<•te. [Government members: He<1r, hear!] It was rthmt the mof't-well, I do not like to use strong language. [H<>n. R. PHI LP: You are usin'! plenty of it .. ] But it is a most repre!1ensible thin~ for a member of thi::; Hou.-<e to do. \Ve were tnld by one hon. Inf-'n~bt-~r that. when a 1nan hod been twenty yea;rs in the service it \Lts evidPnc::> that he ought to be c"ntin•wd, Jf he tHrd her n fmty years in the servic~; it \Vas also evidencM that h.e ought to l1e C•Jntinued., and so on ad infinitum. There are ~Olllt:' hnn. tnernbtTM of thiR House-I am going to spbtk !)uite frankly on tbi..; Bubjt>ct­I am not; caring whorn I tnay pleabP or whon1 I may di,please-but it is about time that some hon. mPmbers had the courage to f·<l :tnd up in this House and take the part of the general t>txpayer. [Government members: Hear, hear!] There are a number of peo\)le, buth inside r.:his House and out of it, wbo always speak about the public Rf'rvice as if it was a kind of respecLtble DUI.wich. I thi_nk it is highly discreditable to the Rervice that It should be spoken ab"ut in this way, or that they should he treated as if they were pensioner~. 'Phe men in the civil service earn the money the.v get from this State just as any 1nan working outside does, and they ought ne it her to be petted nor pf•na.!is<"d. [Govern­ment members : Hear, hear !] They ought simply to be 'rPated on a fair bu.,ine,;s footing. [Hon. E. B. FOHEST: But you both pet them and penalise them.] \Ve may h>rve clone that. The Government are not aoove making mbtakes

any more than other men are. What interest have we in penalising the public "ervants? [Hon. D. H. DALRYMPLE: You want to save £500,000, I shoulrl think.J I declare in all honeRty that the Government entered on thi< work, and went through this work-[ Mr. J. LEAHY: Fun ked it·-sent for a board.]-with the r!eepest regret, and I will tell hon. members hHnething e!Re-I hrwe been far more put out by a single letter from one of theoe men than I have been put out by all the criticism from the otJ.er side of the House. [G-overnn1ent member.s : He8r, hear!] If any perwn likes to try the same work himself he will find out how unpleasant and how thankless it is. The people in whose intere,ts you take that trouble, for whom vou do that t ha,nkless and un­pleasant work, do not think enough about. it to t~ven think of th:wking you; but the people who happen to be hurt-and, unf<>rtunately, . ome­oue tnust be hurt in doing Wlll'k of tbt:tt kind­have a very bitter fee.ling about it, and the Oppositionists in this House think it is a fine chance for getting at the GovernmAnt. And they shed bitter tears abcmt the injury that has b!·'€11 done to the civil s-,.,rv:tnt ''• rrhe men who did far more injury to the civil servanb-three or four times mure than '" e did-who levied an imr,ost, which they themselves valued at £100,000 per annum, froll" the civil servants­have been makir•g the floor of this Chamber swim with their tears over the ir.jury done to the civil servants. [Governn1ent mernber~ : HE n, hear! and laughter.] [Mr .. J. LEAHY: \Ve object to a hole-and-corner inquiry at the dictates of the J\1inisters. vVe want it abo,ehoard anrl open. You refused to do it. You tore np the evicJe,ce.]

The SPEAKER : Order !

The TREASURER: In connection with this matter, ewn if Ministers have made mistakes

in details, I can stand np before L8 p.m.] this House and hr.nestlv declare that

the GO\·ernment in carrying out this work, which they con~ider was Heees,-)ary work in the interests of the peoplP of Qneens­land-that thev acted earnestly and with all honesty, and with jJerfect i;nvartiality­[Government members: Htear, h1~ar !]-C~nd what­ever the result of the action of the Government may be in this respect, they accept the entire re,ponsibility, and I think it is a mean aJ>d con­temptible tl1ing to talk about members of this comnliR.-.ion, and about the civil serYants hn:dng anything to rlo with the policy whicl1 the Govern1nent ha',!, carried thrn11gh. \Vhatover blame there is, hlame the GovernmeEt. [J\1r. ':\1ACM\TXEY: Then you admit that mistakes wert) made, and th'at t hf' recomnh IH:a.tions were made at the insti~ati.m of 1linisters ?) J\ro. [The PrtEoliER : :No; hi,, languag<' im­plies no such :Hlmission.] I think tLa' my language on this matter does not permit of. any two n1enning.-:. [GovernmP:lt mernher~: Hear, hear !J I have said that \Ve }l.ave been toeate,d to a great deal of spurious symt"" hy on behalf of the civil servants (~uriug the last three or four weeks, and while I admit that there may be some difference~ of opinion with regard to the action of the Governn1ent in this n1::ttter, and although in smne ea,,es the syn1prrthy rna.y have bc..Jl1 somewhat sincerE', yet I 'kn()W tb~1t a great d, al of it as merely pnt up for the occaoi,m. The hon. mem­ber for Bnllo·• treated us to a most extnordinary rli«trihe over this matter last. night, and I wonder if he will 1 eeognise his own words. Here is what the hun. member fer Bnlloo said, as ret'orted in Hansa?·d-

'l'he civil service has bossed the colony and ruined it.

[Hon. D. H. DALRH!PLE: Like the Labour party.] Pir .. T. LEAHY: Yes; just the same.] That was in 1895, and he went further-the hon.

Hon. W. Kidston.J

376 Addn;s 1n Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address i.n Rep1.1J.

member for Builoo does not believe in half measures. In 1899, after further· th1uking over the matter, he told this House this-

Thh; eou11 try is hoing run at the present time in the 'n!iercst: of tlJC civil servants, and no Government has evel' been st,1·ong enough to resist t,hem.

~An honourable nFmber: Did he HY that?]. Yes. [Mr . • T. LEAHY: You had to call in a cmn­mission, and you ;W. proving what I said; you were not g~uftt~ to do the work yotu8elve~.]

The SPEAKER: Order !

The TREASUJU~R: He also said-lion. members were not game to go against the c1vil

sernmts, fore tf'h eivil ~Prvant is the gentleman of the farmly, and ha.s ten or t weh·e vote~,~ who take their cue from him.

And then the hon. member proceedAd to pre­scril.w a remedy, and not the remedv of a Royal Cmnmisc,ion, which he suggc,~ted laSt night, but this W.>S the remedy he suggested--

If tlte G-overnment are wise they will give member.;; of the civil service representatio!! in this House in pro­pottion to the population or disfranchise them in t.hi::; Hom'e altogether.

[Government members: Ah, ah !] [Mr. J. LEAHY: Hear, he..r! I say the same thing now.] Now, behold the friend of the ci vi! service-( Government laughter)--and now, when that hon. In~~n1ber does "ee a Government strong enough, what does he do? When he ;3ees a Governn1ent strong enough, in spite of popular r!amour, doing the needful thiug, and what was considered the needful and the right thing by mmt people with regard t•J the civil t;ervice, he gets a friend to nwve a n1otion of want of confidence on the Go"·nrn­·ment for their action. 'fhi:;:; G-,)vernlnenG acted in th? stra.i~h 'V way and the right nwnner \Vith regard to the ei vil t:it'l'V~tn ts ; they al:-:;o pruposed to get a :B'r .. nchise Bill through, and I know th~t the hon member and his friends do not like that, and all this civil seni,·., talk i~ political bunkum. The hon. member ~nems to lrnrvdnc that tdl the p2ople are fool::;, but if h(:' think,; he c _..,;1 go on bef1_)oling thent he is V ~r.r lTIUCll Illj~t·t;,en. f:VIr. a. LEAHY: The bon. member fu,· Clermont read all this last year. It ir., not m'vJ, :.nd l ,,tick t:J what I said.] And now the hon. membe,. is sooling the civil sprvan ts on to run thL Governrnent a.7,ain. \Vel!, I hope that the people, uf this country and the civil servantH th21nselw--'i \ ill be wise L~nongh nnt t11 be 1nisled bv Kuch foo!iBh ~--dk a.s has bt>en indulged in for t~1B. la..:::t thr,·e 1•r fuHl' w-ek:~: for it ll1-I.Y pnssihly ilapp:~u that tht-'y 111igbt f'UC:cr>ed;

the bun. rnmnbHr for Bullon 1n )y Cdine into power, :.tnd his ~yr11pathy for thetr: mc-ty as~tPlle the iOrm of takin';;{ the franchLc .w~,;.y frt)ffl

them. No 1V want to refm· to ;-tll\7 extra­orctin<iry ch.1rgR In:-dle by the hon. nJEjfnbet' fnr Bull·m 1a~t night ag i::sG civil E·ervants. He told this H.oll\~8 ti1,~: a., rnen~ber cou'1d J;oL gt>t a·.:y iuforruatiou fr,nn any dt·p trt.n18nt \vhic•lt m1g·ht tt:-'11 ag·q_]nst the Mini::;-~> rat the ht...ad ofth8 dPp;u·tq!l~H '. [Mr. ,J. LEAHY: ]'\,,; .'· .tid he cmtld not Ret tht~ 1rJormrd.ion he '5 .:tnte(L] Tht' hun. rnernb·.'t said 1 1nember could not get any infurl):at.ion nqw that wa11 likely to t.eH c1ga.inst a, .VIini~'7er. Scu·ely eYervone knOW~i Lh ,,t a MinistPl' rnu:st do a Jot nf cnufident1al work \Vith his TJndc>r Semc~tarc 'l'h' interests of thH .service demand th:1t thn·~·p illH'-~t h2 rnntnal confid.Pnce between a Ivlin1~ter and the perm;::u1t·llt bf n.d of hi.s <h.l;JJc.tr, ment, ;t!Jd I venture t:) thiuk th <t there are very few bon. rnf::nber::; in this }louse who are ~o de .... titute of ho·, 'lUrable feelings as to go to an LT nder S1:cre­tan·, or a chi~f officer in nny depar:men , and aRk fur inforl!lation for the purp~Jse of hu:::·: ing :f Minister. fMr .• J. LEAHY: It \Va:4 public infurma­tio,, which should have been publbhed.] Just

[Hon. W. Kidston.

let hon. 1nernbers try and nnaginA themselves in an of.rice where they coH1d not tnust thA men n1nving about their roorn~, wht""re tbey could not leave a ~crap of papPr nbont, vvhcre there \VaB no confidence <>etween them anr1 the h,,ad of the department! It woulrl be a horrihle condition. The hon. member told us thnt a rmember uf this Hou"e went and trkcl, and found that he could not get Ruch information. [!\fr .• J. LEAHY: I did not. I said a mernLer of thi' Rouse told lll8

that he did.] [Gonrnment members: You diu.] [Mr. J. LEAHY: I did not. You look at Han­Ha?·d.] I should like to ask the hon. member for Hulloo whether he tried, and wbether, when the Under Se~retary rose to ask the .Minister if he could give hin1 the information, he did not scoot out of the office like a dog with a >qnib under hio t"rl? (Gonrnment htughter.) [Mr. J·. LEAHY: I never aeked an Fnder Secretary for anything of the kind.] I hope for the credit of the publie service, and for the cleannes' and soundness of public businees generally in Qneens­lanrl, no considerable number of memters of this House will even consider this a bughing· matter. [Hon. H. PHILP: \Vhy, oniy yesterday you gave offieial documents to a private member to use in the HonRe-a thing that ':vRS never done before.] [Mr. J. LEAHY: This comes very well from one connected with the J'\ative Cat.] I am not troubled about that matter. [Hon. R. PHIT,P : y·nu c:tnnot accuse me of going near your Under Recretr~ries or 1\-J ini.sters for inforrna­tion.] No. :Frankly, I sh"uld be exceedingly surprised if anyone told me that the hon. gcntle­motn dicl such a thing, aMI I would not believe him. [Hon. R. PHILP: Y01: have done some thinr:s that have never been done before in this Honse"] I\:>t of that kind. [Hon. R. Pl!ILP: Y 8S, yon g ... >.Ye a docuu:ent to on~:-~ of your sup­porters ye:;terday, and b:·t week doenr:nents were goiJJg all round the IInust;.J Jt hn:-; been the practic:,~ of hon. 1newber.;;; oppm.;itP. to rather ~v\'a;.!ger abont tht-ir p(~:.-itions, and hn~v inde­pendt~nt thPy are--ff-l!·n. R. PHlLP: \.ron are abont. thl~ iliggf-st R\\';lggerdr in the cnunt1·.' .] It hriS been the pltWtH_.e of hem. meH1ber.s O]•pJsite to :-·,wilggPr ah1.n~. th· ir ind(~p~-·nd'"'nce, :n.d ::-ay that they did not care about their parlialllentary Na1arie;;:, ~n1d 1·h~tt tlH-y f;hould b~ done away witb ; and w~,en an hon. n1en1ber got up and IHtHie th 0 point-blttnk :--late:rwnt that he t:J8\ ;..•rdrew a \Jenny of it, and I ·ya~ n..sked at the Tr~""a~ury wi1eth~r t• "t "· ;;. true, l think I was qnite ju~! ilirrl in giving- the inforw tion to C(l!!it';_idict

that !-ltaterntmt. [Governntent mer.nber::;: Hear, }H~<H· :] l\ow I wa.11L to ;.;;:ty wnrd abont the cp.wsr.1on of thE' nnemploved. ht1n. nwrrtber for Bn1lno 1a·,t. night h:.1d a g-re.tt d~ :t.l to say on t.:~is ~uhject, and he read frorn a speech of n1ine nf Ltst yf•ar, bu~, euriou~ to sav he did nnt read tha.t p<~rc t)f that sp~'Pch j n w'hicll l pointed out that the qn(·,;tion of the unernp'oyed w£u:: a. very ditTicul'". qne~· wn for G-11\·ernment. to deal wi h. Dlr. J. LEAHY: did not re 1d the" bole

Lof euuJ~t:.o.J The hon. n~en1ber did not; t.ho:;e parts tlw.t Ruiterl hil1l, app:-nt>ntly.

1 ~bn.ll re:)d :.:t fF\'. of the wo; ,);-; t!Jat I Haid at t.hat tin:e, to ~how tho ·· I wa~ \villing to g·ive the ;l1en Go,·ernnwut credit. (:';Ir. ,J. LEAH¥: JJid I r1 ad an:v-tl:ing t~1nt w3 ~ wrong ?J Nnt in thi::;:. e~1se. The hoYJ. memher cantJOt. read illl~~­rhing wr:1n_.; ou1J of my :-:p~~f:\!h. (GoYennn~nt laughter.) Speakin..: on the unemplo: ed question at thr,t. time, I s:tirl-

I admit that the position was one whicll :tn:r Gr,vern­ment, huweve1· c:tl,able or witlilJg it mi'::·llt. have bPen, would lHtVC ffJUnd btset ·with clitticnlt1es. I acirniL all tlutt; and I do not blame thP 1,overnment, be(·ause thP.\" trJCd ana !a !led.. But the Government really did nothing.

[Hon. D. H. I)Ar,RniPLE: That is cxac>ly wh<tt you have done.] I showed there that I had some

Add1"e11s w Repl;y. [9 JUNE.] .A.ddnss in Repl:IJ· 377

-appreciation of the position, and that I wa;; willing- as a rnem ~e~· of the Oppo:-:;ition to give a good deal of wetg-ot t•> tlw difficulties that beset the Government in dealing with a matter of this kind. The hon. member for Bulloo, 1.vhen he \Vas spt 'tkiug lat3t evening, said-

The Trea:-:.nrcr h'1~ been using trn~t funds in order to pay Lhe~c unemployed for pm·pflSi:."' which will not be realised, and the Govern me ut. will never get the money back to reple 1islt the trn:-<t funds., n.nrt anoth' r Govern­ment may have to make up this money which UlC pre­sent Tl'casurcr is Ut';ing in this way.

The hon. gentleman knnvvs quite well thnt, when a statement of that kind voes outside, pe.,ple wiil iln~gine that the Government are doing some hank\'-panky work-that th~y are mi:-:.;appro­prbting trust fnnds. f'\IIr. ,J. LEAHY: No.] Th>lt iR the innuendo. [Government member>: Hear, ht ,,. !] I just wnnt to tell the House that tlv·re \Vas no robbery of the truRt funds in thiK m"tter. [:\ir. J·. LEAHY: I did not ""Y so.] No; the hon. member ,jrnply hinted at it. [JHr. "J. LK~HY: I said the bulk nf i;, would be lost.] The hon. nwmb• r simplv hinted at it, in the delicate way in which th~ Irishman gave a hint when he kicked his mate out or doors. (Govern­ment laughter.) [:VIr. ,J. LEAHY: I will give you a hint ,ome r1ey, probably.] I wi;.;h the hon. m em her for Bulloo would keep his temper. I just deHire to explain that the Governn1ent, in Inaking tbis nnewployGd experiment, .sin1ply opened a suspense account, for the purpos1~ of keepin'( a clear am! Oj>en acc.mnt. [:Vlr. J. T,JUHY: ·Ont of trust fnnd -.] [Hon. ]l. H. DALRniPLE: '•V ell, that is not paying· your way day by da,·.] I >tnt r!ehghted that any mcrnber of the Philp GovernmPnt should ::v; la~t have riflen tG a con~ CPptiun of the duty of p:tying- your way daily. My idea \Vas to npen ~t. trw~t acconnt "The Public Estate Irupro\en1eut Account/' 'workf'd on Pxactly the ~-<:tnle line-s a . .., "ThP .\glicultnral LrtndR Purcha . ...;·., _Account,': ~barging thA \vhole COt-t of irnprO\'BlnPnt to ( t.ch t .:ta,te, and hnvino· it illclnded in th~~ price of the land, anU repa.id with int.en"'St the :-~<J.rnn wa.y a"' i~ done wit.h repnrchased e-;tat.: -:. The rea on 'vhy it was dotL--: \Vas thflt nnder a :-.-stem of this kind we should bt1VP H,n upt~l!. ret.:,;rd of the profit and ios~ of each trmwar,tinn, and unlt>RR it is \Vorked on econontic Jl an cl bu ;}n~ ... ;s-like liuLs it vrill break do\V!l Tb~ openin~ of thit5 acconnt will "how the Hous8 th; re ha~ been no tidd1t ywinking with fllfJdd, as it can at

hP- seen ho>\' lHOTif'Y \Ya.~ snent. will he no roon1 L)l' chnrity-no~oft billets

for the :\1inist.er LCI gi'- e hi~ friends. The hon. n~ember for Bull no bad a gn, ,.t deal tu sa.y l )j~~ r11ght ~tboat the \V,-~·es pcdd on thn:-;e hnpro·~­Jnent4. l CDnld not help noticing when he rearl the fig-ures that if he h .. d stopped to think ,,f what. lH' wai> re8.din~ he would hardly ha.ve rt>ad thmn, hecan~e the tignre' he quoted showed that thmw men sent fro!H £1 to £1 12~. (id. a wenk to theit· wivc' and fami!i s. [Hon. D. H. DAr.­HY:\-lPLR: Per rnouth, 110t per week.] I want to get th" H on'e to under.,tand thi,. The eeverctl 0\'t'l'tlt-!er.-. over thP.se V!.triou::; estates were cau­tiotJed asLtinst twn evil~. r~rbey were c:tufioned not to sweat the lH•'n-no~ to p<ly too lit.tle- and not to harnper the ::-elector y;:ho was to c•nne nJter hy pa:1ing- tbe men too much. The'e are the prin~ed directions given to each of tho:_;;e over~ S8l'l'"'i-

'l'lw OYcrscer will. as nctl'ly a~ mrt~" he, fix the price t.o 1)e p.lid for the wot·k Ht the rates paid for ~mch work in that llL-.trlct, and will f:om time to tjmc each wer:;k assess the value oi' the WO! k done nnd p:tv to each man in the gang an equal portion of thP. amount earned and .:payable.

It eeems to me that that was a perfectly fair principle on which to go-fair to the rne1~ who were being emvloyed, and fair to the State which

WaS getting the \VOl'k done, S(JII18 trouble took place in the work on the t:1\Yll con~n-ttm at Hock­hamptnn. lf hon. rnembr-t·J \vill think about it they v. ill quite nndr-rstat1rl that. lH:·fOietbeGovern­meur; Htarttd to UH:tke this experinlf-'t1t tlwy knew th"t then' '' ould b.. ouch tH•uhle. [l'>1r .• J. LEAHY: O'Sulliv.m gave it. up yearo aKo.] I may just say that .Mr. O'Sulliv .. n started the expenment in Xevs.' Suuth \Va:e::: with the very be~t and cleanest, intenl1of!, Y ith an honetlt jntention to serve Nuw Bontl~ -\Vnles aoJ to mitigctLB the severity of th hard times on the rneu who vven~, unemployed. The 1nistake 1\lr. O't\ulli van made ".CH this : that he· allov Hd poli-1icians to b"dger him into doing thing' th.at he shouid ""t have done. J uot the kind of difficulty that facect :\Jr. O'St1llivan took place at the town connnun at Rnckhampton. I \Vae; written to about it. and I want tu read this lettet· to the House \Vhicb I sent to Rockhampton as extJlain~ ing the lJO~ition nr· the Goverument, because I think it IS as we.] that the House and the country generally should clearly umterstand the principles on which the Government h,tve been acting in this matter-

Drisbane 30th )1ay, 1904.

Dear Sir,-I am obliged to you for callmg my atten­tion to t.he matters yon m nt.ion in your letter of the 26th instant in conneetion with the work of the un­emplo) eel at the town common. I may say t.hat I wa~ vtarn(~d a ·week ago that some of the men ser1t to the common ·were not likely to prove Yery satisfactory. Bnt in dlOo~iug the Inf'U :\lr. Hamnwnd natur:1lly chose those.who~e cases be cotlsidered wost dt -;perate~ that is to ~ay, he elw.se marrietl men \:rho were ~drLtdy golfing relief; and CO!nplaint was made to we thnt it woultl bt-> found that H1<ll1Y of those men "'lr~re uu;uited for the work. alld con:-equently \V<mlr1 be lil-iely to 11Htl..:e v:r~ mna1l \\'ages \Vhere other men in better traini g and better <Wquaintpil_ with the \V(Jl'k might perhap:-< be able to m~1kr fair wag-L·;::-_ I have not ) et goL a report from the OYer::;et~r 111 ehar~e, Hlld hlU writing yr.u no\V, wllen all that I have :-:·en ill cPn­nection witll the m:~tter is your letter aud a telegraphic nport ill the Hr:shane newspavers that the men WPl'e makiuf! ouly ahont lis. a week.

~ow, in tlw tirst plac·, l have nothin.; whatever to do with fixing-the prier, to lJ(: p:tid for llicwork. I enclo~c you a eopy of the printed ln~trnetions giYen to the OYOn ~·er. fTOln \Vhich YOU Will f-~'C that it is the oYcr .... per who fi\':u; the pric -~ to be !Jf~id. ~uHl that the geuera.i im;tn~ction:-o to hllll are that the overseer will, as nearly a'· way he, fix t !:e pTice to be p;tid t'or the work at the mte-, paid t'or sueh work ill the dii:itricL. It is not d thal the oYer,, er ~;lwnld ~weLt the men, and ·t not dl'sircd that lll' ~bonJd them money which tile~· c~o not earn. ~in made to do awav w1th cha!·H.r for meu, HlHl to sub-stitute fm· it wn1 I-.: whieh will enable them to earn thcJr own living not at fancy priee·- -..;vllicll woulU :siwply be chant~· in anotlwr form. but at the p1·ic'C;O; thaL are cnrreutly paid for sncl1 work iu the district.

In t-!artiug tlli.;; experiment I was quite conscious tbat there were lWtDY di1tieultics in tile waY ut' its success. One of tlw::.:e fliflienltic-; is just th~f.:: th~~t many amougst the unemploy('d wl10 '.VCre relief might not be able \Vhcn ~ent to \HHk of with wllieh theY mi.:-:ht be UI1H.C(HtaintecL io Utl't) what llla r be considere~d a fair wag-e I\1 .·v·mL other cases that h:lvc come under n1y ob:-~erYation, wllem 1lw men thought the pric8 offered h)' the ov,_;r~C'el' too smalL tbuy \Yere iDduced to start wotk ~ttHl tr_\ it. anll aftl-r a couple of weeks i'ound that they were able to ma~m \Yages running :trmn 4s. to Gs. 3d. per da::.

It i~ evident thnt it' men Utlaccnstomed to t.he work arc !Mid such prices for ekaring- t.hc btlld a::; \Vill enable them to make lis or 7~. a day, t.ltcn the man ''no is acqnaiutPd with til8 work might and would make donb\e that money, and the ::;dector \Vho came to take the land up ~dter it was elcnred ·would have to pav an mordina.tc prit·.~ tor having the wo1·!.; done fur him. l\ow, l ~m1 not going to kill the whole exvernuent by paying ptiet~~ for hanng the work done wh1ch later on would be a burden upon the mrm lYho is going to take up the land for f'Cttlemcnt. Linlc~s the worJ( can be done at prices npproximate to snch as thr> selector ca,n offer to pay, then the work c:.Lnnot lJe done at alL

As reg~trd:-; the statement that only lOs. or lls. a week had been earned by some of the gang, as I say, I am

Hon. W'. Kidston.J

378 Add1·ess in Repl.y. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl.y.

speaking beFore I have full information from the overseer as to how the gang worked and what amount of work they did; but ns I have alreHdy ~hown, the prices fixed for the work by tht) overseer (:\lr. 'rnrneTJ ~l:on!d be such as will enable a man acquainted with the work to earn fair wages. I du not think that 10s. or lls. a week is a prof)Cr \V~tge for a man, nor anything like it, ;yet I think a man is better working fo1· and earning lls. than living on the bE"..;garly allowance wh1ch the relief bureau gives them.

In reference to \Vhat you tell me about an outcry being raised against me in certa.u1 quartP.rs over thls matter, I may just say that I will not be bounced into paying away the taxpayer~' money without trying to get a fail· return for it. I know how l :tsy it is to get temporary applause by being generous with other people's money; but there it:' no real settlement of the unemployed difficulty possible on such lines. If Jjabour men w1ll cons1der wHat has been the result or sneh a policy in Xew :_.lonth \'fales, they wlll recognise 1hat H any permanent good is to he doue iu this matter. the attempt must be made on sneh principle~• as willmam­tain some vroper relation between the cost of the work and the value of tt1C work. I do not expect de~titnte, almost desperate, men to reason very calmly or wisely on such :t matter; bnt I do ~xpeet our frietdil' who Hre not destitute to refu~e to bF m1sled hy nu thinking gush that would ruin, and deservedly ruin, any tJolitictl party that made it~elf respOLsiblc for it. I am quite stu·e of the ~oundness of 1 he principle on which I am trying to lind ·t m tig·•.tion of the nnemplo_;·ed evil, and I am not going to allow it to be nrit1eU. by fooli81l gu~ll or personal abuse.

vVhatevEr may be said ,,bout the attempt which the Government h<tve made to deal with the unemployed problem on sound lines, I cluim that that was a statement cornins:r rron1 a rnan to his owncon8tituentsth ,tevidenced an honest purpose -an honest desire to help those who were unem­ployed, and an hone,,t desire t . do fairly hy the general taxpayer of the State whom he repre­sents. [iHr. ,J. LEAHY: I admit it is a fair statement, <tnd a strong one.] The last state­rnent I ha\'e hnd frurn H.ockhnrnr;tnn, and which I got this mornirJg, wa< that fifty-five men have been sent to the town common, and that the work is proceeding Batisfactorily. [Governme!lt memberM: Hear, hear!] [Hon. R .. PHILP: Do you think that land will be tak<"n up for set! :ement ?] Yes; I would not ha Ye spent a penny (Ill it

if I did not thiok that. [Mr. J. [8•30 p.rn.] LEAHY: You know a certain road

is paved with good intentions.] I know that it i.;;; an experiment \vhjch the Government are making, and that it may fail. I know quite sufficient about the sub­ject to know that. [Hon. R. PHILP: You tried village settlements.] w,, haYe tried a great many thms,s, and if thc,y fail we will try over and over again until we find the right way nf doing the thing. (Hear, hear !) It is disgraceful that in a young country like this there should ev ::ry now and then be a, grea.t nun1-ber of unemployed nnahle to make a livirw, while millions of acres of land are lying idle. [Opposi­tion members: Hear, bear! \Vhy d•m't you sell the land ?] The Scotch J•eople have a saying that fools and children should not see half-done work. \Ve have to ded with only half-d<•ne work. Hon. gentlemrn opposite will not give the faintest credit to the Gov.-rnrneut. I suppose it '"ould not suit thtir tactics to give the1n credit for anything- at all. There are a number of matters I will leave out because I am taking up a great deal of tnne. [Go­vernment memhE~rs: Go on; go (m.] One n:cttter that I wonld lik• to say a few words a.buut, which has been discussed a great deal, i, my statement, vvhen I \vas sitting in Opposition, that the cost (/f govern lllf>llt in Queen~land should be reduced by £500,000. Why it should have been trotted out so often on this occasion I cannot understand. \Vhat th<J Government have got to do with that statement, made by a private member a couple of years ago or so, or "hy they should attempt to saddle such a statement as

[Hon. W. Kids ton.

that nn the Government, I cannot fathom. [Mr. J. LEAHY: It was on that condition that we gave you the Treasury benches.] [Hon. R. PHILP: But you "~re the Gl>vernment, an .. you not?] \Vhen I was speaking- on the lOth July, 1902-see Hansard, pag-e 2-1-seven d«ys before the Trea,mrer's first Financial Statement was made for that year, I took the totalr-xpc-nditure for 1901-2, ns publi,h,•d on 3th July, at £4,682,000. Four or five days later the Federal Trea,-nrer issued revised fi,;ures, which showed the G>m­monwealth expenditure to h'1ve been £7,989 iess than the amount published on the 5th of July, and this of c"urse reduced the total expenditure fnr the year by a like mnon11 r, waking ~t £4,674,000 inscead of £4.682,000. The diff,·rence IS

only £8,000, and i~ iu no \vay rnaterial to my argu~ ment ab,mt this mat.ter,. xcept that hon. members will notice that when I was speaking (If! the lOth July the expenditure for the previous year seemed to me to have !Jeen £8,000 wore thFLn it aftt~nv~trds turned out to have bt>en. I \vas pointing out at the time that thP expendi­ture f<ll' 1896· 7 had been £3,604,000. and that therefore we had e.pent in WOl-2 over £1,000,000 more than we had spent five years pn).viously, and after n1aking nlhnvR.nc..:e for the increased exuenditure during fedt'ratlon, and also for a nor~m tl incrclt~·w in c•xpenditnre during the fi\·e ye:-u . .;;, I '3aid tha.t it t-;Pt-n1ed to n1e that the public expenditure had been allowed to increase too quickly, that it was much larger than was really required, and that I believed­these are my words-" The cost of governrmmt in Queensland could be and should be cut down by £500,000." Of conrs~, hon. memherR under­stand that that was what we may call a large general statement. (Opposition laughter.) For instance, if it had turned 1)ut now th::tt the expenditure had been reduced by, say, £499,999 10:3. llbd. n11bndy would s:ty I was ver:v li:.l.r nut. "\Ve wlll just Ree what t.ooi{ place. To prevent rr1isuuderstandlng, I will t:ake: the corr·pcte~ figures for liJ01-2-£4,G74,000-although that IS

£S, 000 lee' than the figures I had when I was spe;1king. That larg-e expenditurP-and I have nothing to withdraw in regard to what I ;,~1id---I say that expenditme was tuo high ior 500,000 pe,ople. However, that large exJJenditure w~s n1ade up of three ite1ns-inh·rest on puhhc debt, £1,4RO,OOO; Commonwealth expenditure, £707,000; and general Stale expenditure, £2,486,000. Everyone knew quite well that as regards the interest on th'' public deht lW reduc­tion was possible. Our friends in London would have a very ugly \, ord for any retrench­ment which threatened to interfere wrth the intere<t on the pnbiie deht. Consequently, if the C'1~t of government was to he reduced, it must be done on tlre C' •mmonwealth or on the State expenditure, or on both-it could not be done on the interest bill. I will just tell !ton. gentlemen what lws happened since.. I will take the genera1 State PXpendnure first. The general State expenrlitnre, omittiug intere::<t, for 1901-2 was £2,486,000. Tb" general St>tt& expendi• nre for the next ye~r -1()02-3- was £2,208.000, a rlrop of £278,000. ~ .. w I co;ne to the next year-I mn, of course, speaking­before the vear is closed-·I can only speak defi.itely for eleven months. which 1 will give. The first eleven mrmths of 1\102 3-[Ylr. J. LEAHY : Don't jug., le wi• h it- gi;~e the year]­the year in w hi eh I have sh<.n'<'ed so larg~ a reduction was made, the expenditure for thr, first elev.m months was £2,027,000, and the expendi­ture fm the fir>1t eleven months of this year has been £1,884,000, and reduction in the expenditure for those eleven month" of £143,000. [Govern­ment members: Hear, hear!] I a~surne that the saving for the month of J nne, which we are now in, will be £17,000. If I take

Add1"ess in Reply. [9 JuNE.] Address in Repl_y. 379

the average for the ]aRt three months I would make it about £25,000, but I would much rather be within the mark. I therefore take an estimate of £17,000. That rnakc·s a saving of £1GO.OOO this year. [Government members:

member for Bulloo has challenged my figures on more than one occttsion, but I think if he attempts to challenge them on this occasion he will find himself in a difficulty. I do not want to disguise anything about this matter. I have never dralt with fiuancial questions in this House in a partisan spirit. [Opposition members: Oh, oh!] [Hon. D. H. DALRYMPLE : Give your-elf the best possible character.] I do not. make any pretence that I am not a partisan. [Hon. D. H. DAL­IWMPLE: Auother testimonial.] I h"ve opinions; Jike an historical character in H Uncle Tom's Ua.bin," I ha\'e opinionR, and ''I sticks tu th!_·m_" [1\Ir. J. LEAHY : And everything else you can lay your hands on.] If l could stick to what I laid my hands on regularly as the hon. member for Bulloo, would be a rich rnan. 1 have no de::;ire to misrepre,.ent in the slightest wa;; what is the actual position. Hon. members mnst reme1nber that some £9G,OOO of the reduction in the cost of government that bets taken place is due to the Special .Retrenchment _\_et, for which our friends oppo­site~the friends of the civil senants~have to be thanked. If th,,t Act is allowed to be renealed this year, that will make a very big reduction in the reduced cost of governmeut that ba.s been effected. [:1Ir. CA}fPBgLL: Are you going to repe:~d it?] Is the hon. n1ernber going to give rne an opportunity? So that from the figures I have given it will be seen that the actual reduction in the cost d government is probcthly nearer £4~i0,000 than £500,000. I think that amply justicies everything which I nid at that time, althou~h it has been ridiculed so much by public men whose only fault is that they woulri not take sntLcient trouble to make them,eives acquainted with the facts. I admit that there was one mi~take that I made when speaking in 1902. I made the mistake of supposing that the Estimates laid before this House by the late Government were~ I do not use the word in an improper sense-correct. or hone"t Estimates, and that they rni:sht he safely taken as a guide as tn what VYas going to be spent during the year for which they \vere framed. Under tha present circum.,tances in the House, I may he exe::sed if I just review what has been the financial policy of the late Govern­ment, and what has been the result of tht' eight or nine month' that the present Gm-ernment have been in office. \V e all know quite well that there are other things t•onsequent on the vote that is going to be takPn besides the l!'r.,nchise Bill. \Vlten hon. members are giving :t vote tha.t i~ going tn d. cidP the fate of a G uvprnment, they have to consider

He·1r, hear!] And added to the reduction which toob. place in the previous year, it means that from the time I spoke thPre "has been a decrease in the general Sr.ate expenditure of £438,000. [Mr. L.U!ON1': You ore going hwk on your figureR.] [Hon. R PHILP: \Yrre not the J~sti­mutr> on the table ?J [Mr. J. LEAHY: He will save tbe nation:tl de.bt.] I know th>tt all the financiers on the other side havrl been laughing at me before their constituent< .. Apparently they do not understand anything- about it. I kn"w an hrm. gentlr m:tn "ho only :t few weeks ago held up to ridicuh~ the statenwn t that such a Raving had heen effected. Now I cmne to the Cornmrrm,·ealth expenditure. In 1901-2 it was £707,000, and a' neNr]y as I can make out, judg·ing frorr1 the ten n1onths' actual figures that Wf· have, and the Pt.timato which I hu,ve got from M>lbonrne, thP expenditure for tbi~ yc·ar will be £677,000. Th ,t is a reductinn of £30,000, which mak(;'S a total decreasA, actu,1l or pr·o~pective~ at the (3nd of this month, in the cost of goverr1ment since July, 1902, wh,·n I made the statement, of £41iS,OOO. (Government cheers.) And that is not all. [?tir. J. LEAHY : You ea" prove a million jusc in the "ame way.] [11r. KERR: Yon do not likre it.] [~1r. J. LEAHY: This is the heaven-born financier.] [1fr. BURROWS: You are not a bit plr'ased.] That is not all. Hon. members know quite well that it wa,; towards the end of last year befure the Government, owing to the nbstructive tactics of th<· Opposition, could get time t(} give any eerious attention to matters of administration. In the first half of the financial yt1 ar we were not able to make any re~ dnctions in expenditure. \Ve had no opportunity. VVe bave IJf'ell takjng the opportunity since, and 1

we will continue to take it, and next year, if we remain in office, not onlv the results of the labours of the ci vi! service inquir.v, but many nlatters uf adrninistra,t.ive detail, \vill be t3hown. J\fany economies will be effected without inter­ferint: with I he ci vi! service. :Most of the econo­mies effected this year are not. in the matter of civil service salaries at all. The economy on account rrf ularies is very small. I will show what it mnouuted to later on. Hov;-.~ver, frotn the c.·.use., I have stated there will be a. further saving in expc-mdit.nrt> for thiR yeri.r of, I estin1::tte, something like £3il,OOO, which will operate next year, and that "ill make a total reduction in the cost of g-wernment in Queensland since I spoke in J nly, 1902, of £G03, 000. [Hon. .R. PHILP: Look at your speech last year.] The hon. member for Town .ville might know plenty about this m ,tter if he only took the trouble, bur he ridieu]ps this statement. [Hon. .R. PHILP: I should think so. You have taken

i whet her, on the whole, they are g·oi1 g to irnprove

a year too much.] I will show you some­thing' t-h·e. ~ot only is ever~T word I said then ju.stified, but the measnre of retrenchment that was necPssary to balancR the accounts was just about correctly stated by me at that time. If that is done, the public accounts of Queensland will about balance. [Mr . • T. LrL~HY: \Vhen it is done.] [Hon. D. H. DALRYMPLE: It is not done by bookkeeping.] I will show the hon. member there is no bookkPeping alf<rut this business. That is the position. However this present month may falsify my statement about the £17,000, or next yer<r may falsify the statement about the £3,5,000, I absolutely declare that 1 his is as near the t1uth a~ any person can get fr~1n1 the present Treasury figures. [Mr .• J. LEAHY: The Secretary for Land., challenged vour figures last night.] LThe SECHETARY Ftm Pl!BLIC LANDS : I did nothing of the sort.] The hon.

matters by a change. I think it legitimate, therefore, under pre:.ent circurr1stance.;:, to Cilffi­

pare the financing of the pr: ent Govern· ment with the firwncinc of the late Governrnent . I admit that when a predietRd surplus of £22,000 endPd in a deficit of £328,000, and when a predicted surplus of .£21,000 ended in a dPficit of £432,000, one might have hesitaterl about taking the Estimate·, of such a Gove"nrnent too seriously. However, I made the mistake, which I admit, of taking them .seriously, and I have since found that the Estimates presented to this House were nelt reliable Estiwates of what the year'~: expenditure was going to be~that they did not provide for all anticipated ex­penditure, but they were cut Ltnvn to look well, and to enable the Treasurer to forecast a surplus. [Government members: Hear, hear!] And, although the expendrture was cut out of the Ewimate::-, '"'~ork was gone on with all the same, with the idea that tlr ey could easily pay it out of unforeseen expenditme at the end of the year. The extent to which this has been carried out in a small State lik,, Queensland is

Hon. W. Kidston.J

380 Address 'In Heplp. [~i_SSEMBLY] Address in Repl,y.

almoRt beyond belief. Here is the nnfore,een expenditure for th~e last three ye tr·s. .For the year 1900-1 the amount was .£017,000, for the par 1001 2, £ii07,000, and for the yearHl02-:-l, £236,000. It can be easily understood by :u:y person of ordinary intelligence thart, when so eunrmous an amount wa-; Y<:"~U' after yrnr pas,,ed through this House as nnfure"een expt·nditure, th~_;, E8tin1ates presented to this House lnst year by the late Government were no reliable guide at <>11 as to '\vbat wa·"· going to be Rtwnt. [f;overnrnent members: Hear, hear!] [Mr. J. LEAHY: We asked you to put your Estimate•, on and you would not do it..] h was only lately, however, that the pre,ent Government found that they were comwitterl to expenditure for which no provision had been made on the E;tirmttes at all-expenditure which, in some cases, had been deliberately cut out of the Estimates with the in­tention of providing for it as unforeseen expt~ndi­ture. [Hon. R. Pm LP: Name wbat your amounts are.] [The A1'TOI<N,JY-G1JJ:'IERAL: You will get them all.] Every hon. member understands quite well, of cour.'e, that a Go\'eTntnent will have unforeseen expenditure. [Hon. R. PmLP: ·you are making- strong insinuntions now.] No, Mr. Speaker. [Hon. R. PHILP: "Deliberately cut out of the E~tiinat<--'8 '' you e.aid.] I am not makiug a.ny in~inua.tinns at all. I an1 making a hard, dry ::;tatenlent which I arn going to prove. [Government mernberR: lf e;u, hear !] It -iH underHtood that Cllntingencies will ::1 wn.yR arise necessitating- unforeseen expenditure, hut that js a. very different thing from cutting ]t\ 1ns out of the E~tirnat<S wbile you are g"ing on with the work. I think it is time that I gave a specim<·n of thi~. Last year there waH put on the 1£sti­mate,, a' framerl in the Railway Department, the R\111! of £10,COO for the extetwion ,f the Town-.,ville railway J ards. That amount was -:;truck out of the Estinw.Zes. That was economv. [Mr .. J. LEAHY: '\Ya,, not that in lr•w? y,;u are df_,tling with revPnue-that· \Y'.S not revenue at all.] And tbe work fur which that £10,000 wa;; to 1J<1Y waR ~t~rted in th~ nwnt,h of .A .. prillru.;t year. [Hon. R .. PHI LP: Am! t),,, money""" provided to pay for 1t in that; year.] ThP, EHtiU1<H.P.5 were pre:Jented to this Iion~t· in . .:'\n;J;usr last year, and that amount of £10,000 was struck out of the lon.n vott~~-i~. i..._ l11an wonPy I urn talking ahont. At that time th,. work had b»en four "r five m'mth. m progrec·c;. [Hon. R. l'HILP: The nwnPy \VH$ votAd for it, and ought to have been spent .. ] rrh~:: n1cmey wa~ a[Jpr()priated several tinlef\ and had tu be voted ngain lant year, but w '"· ~truck out of the Ebtirnates whil(' the \?Ork \V<-<.S ac: uaJly going on. The work, when finished, enBt £D,142. and a few months ago the 1lK't-.;ent G~oYernment had to pro­vide f:ii,477, by a vote nnder the hPading of H U niore:-;een }:xpBnditnrt'," to pay for that w(·rk. ~ov, <loes tlwt nut justify everything l have

<id? [Hou. R. PHILP: Xot "'t .~11.] [Mr. J. LEAHY: o~H~ minute ynu are t;;~.lking

[SI p.rn.] ;'buut H~\'P!Hle and thH next n1inute you are talkiDg about lr,an.] If the

hon. gentleman will jn.st keep quipt I wiil go back to rt-venne; and here is a httle thing-­[Hon. R PHILP : You led the HouBe to b lieve that this was pairl out of revenoe.] Here is a litth~ tlnng·) :tnd I r1o not know \V hether it i~ re\'enue or lonn or loan or ren'nne, hut it is a little thing bet\Vt'en re\·enue :1nd l(,au, and this alRo shows how the financei-1 of (~uet'nsl:~nd have been managerl in yt-'ar~ gone by. On 28th Fehrnary, 1900, .£30,000 was J.mid for tl e St. ,John's Cbnrch property, where the new Lanrb OtHce is. 'rhe amount was charged at first to lna.n and then tr.tm_,ferrrd t.n rewmue, and vol eel hy this Hou9e a$ nnfnreseen expPnditure for tha.t year. [Hon. R. PHILF. It w.;s the other wayabont. You are quite wrong.] Well, 1 will give the dates. On

[Hon. rV. K£dston.

28th February, HJOO, £30,000 was paid out of the Treasury and cbargPd to loan hnildingt-3. On 20th .r unP, 1900, it was transferred tn unfol't'f;een expen­diture, and it v~ as past1ed hy this House aR such. The nnxt year tbe scnne £:)0.,000 cL~rne up a.~:1in.

: On :~Oth December, 1901, t.hat historical £30,000 i wa$ taken out uf revPnue and put back into loan.

LH •n. R. PHILP: Should it 1 ot be ch"rged to loan?] I am not now discu:,t;illg tbe policy as to wher.her it should he ch:1rged t<l l(}an or reVt'l1Ue

-I hav~ nothing to do with tlJat qneHtion; but I an1 saying that it ~honld be left in one placf', and there should not h8.ve been thi< juggling with it. [Government 1nemLers: Hear, ht>ar !J But vvhat happened? In the year 1899-1900 this House authorised the paying of that £30,000 out of revenue, and six tnonths <lftArwa;: d:::; th8 late Government touk this £30,000 out of loan and oaid it back into revenue, and then thev got the House to pass it agn.iu as loan m~oney. (Government hmg'hter.) Then there is another little item of .£5,000 in connection with the ;came tramaction, and the sanH' thing h<tppened over again. [Tile t:lECRETARY FOH AGRICULTUHE : How n1anv tirnt-~ was that rrlon• .... y trans-. fened ?] [An honourable member: \Vhere is it now?] Well, it went backwards and forwards. I am giving these figure~ becau<,e it is neces:mry to do S•.), because the Hun.se and the country should unde"tand how the finances of the S'ate have been handled by the late Government, Now I come to the revenue :Estimates. In 1902-3 .£1,100 v, as voted for the Indu;trial Reformatory at. \V ~stbrook, but £1,900 was 'pent, and the next Vf<tr the Government came down wil.h tb~ir Esti­in,ttes and asked for £1,100 "gain, and the House passed it; and now this year we are already being asked to pass £550 for this place as unfuresef>n expenditure. Thi.:; is a sn1all

i amount, but the principle i:;:: j nst tl1e san1e, even • if the anwnnt was .£500,000. (Heccr, bear!)

Now anyone who looks at the~e figure:-' rnust know perfectly well that the late Government deliberately uncirerstatec! thi> eetim;,te for the purpose of kAPping rlown their E8tjn1ate~. [Hon. l\. PHIL!': You are quite incorrect.] '\Vel!, all I can :--ay i~, that if the late (~overnn1Pnt took up th·•t posirion on thn fncb pbced before them, :wd if t'1eir defence is that they did not know n:ny bette1·, it is a rnm~t extraordiuary thing that auyone shonld want to put thern b 1ck into their olrl position. Th~-'ll take the L·:tbnur Bnl'8f!U. £3,000 was :.ppropri 1 ted for this in HJ02-:l, ond tht·y sp<,nt £11,520. i_::\1r. ~T. LEAHY : ~.\ud you clannnred for a ~~ood dt·al more.] And in spite of th:--t.t clamour they came la~t; :vea.r and tt~kE->d for £6,000, after :-:pendi.nrr £17,500 the t~revions y, 1r, and ktw·,clng· there W;-ts littl _l prf);.:;pec~ of any great n--dnetion in the amount required, and row £ii,OOO has been asked fqr to bnpph •w .. nt t.hat vote, ani llJore will } e req,ired. [iYir. :r. LEAHY: You are rnixingthi8UP \vjth the J)nnYvich Vllt,·.] No\~' here is another little iten1~the ~{Hrwra1 hospital ,~ate­and I will gn h.wk a year fm ther so that hnn. rnem1.wr~ \Vi.l u;Jder,tu.nd the DHL~ter properly. In 1901-2 rhe general anpropriatiou for !J,,.,pitals was £()3,000, and £83,000 a.s f'pen'". 'rhe nfxt year the l:.tte Gnv •rnment rpe1ncPd the endow­inent~ by OII<.-fourtb, anrl hon. n1ember:-; ,~·ill :see that if we \vere Rptjnding £83)000, a,nd r·..,dueed the endowrnent by ont)-foUJ th, dH-'" n:nunt likely to be required wonld he cthout .£1.2,000. The af<pro­pri:1t-ion a,sked fur 'vas £':101 000, and they spent .£60,000. p-Ion. ll. PHILP: We spent less than the House \'nterl] Then ihey came down and asked for £50,000 for thi· year, and alrmdy .£15,000 is being asked for on the 8upplement.1ry lC~!i .natPS for what is (;·-dle·J "unforeseen expendi­ture" in connt>ction with this vote. Then here is another one-a, small one, hut a very distinct one­The amount appropriated for endowment to fire

Addreso' in Repf.1f. [9 JuNE.] Address in Rep1.1f. 881

brigades in 1!)02-a W3S £2,:)00, and tbe amount 8pent ' ''' £4-, l12. Yet 1wxt year theY again asked this House fnr £:!,500, "nd we have alre·dy ha,] to proYide another £1,500. There are quit,, a number of itern" in the liFt. l havt: in my h>md r.-pres<•nting probably £~0,000 or £f10,000 unforese; n expenditure of tbat kind. For in~tanee, 1n conneetion ·with th,- GnverniDent Pl'inting OrHc~~ the auwunt apprnpria(·f·d in 1!102-3 for paper and machines w '' £11,000, <tlld tile an1onnt ~pent was £12,~00. 'ft~e f~~Iio~'·ing year they agaiu asked the House for £11,000, wh n they bad ordered nn the 11th of June, linotvpe machines~ £2,2-17; metal, £513-total~ £2, 7GO, altho11: h tb; :P> timates were not FP· sentd to the Hou.;e for two months after that date. That is what is called "unfore­Heen expenditure." r:t'hat is the n1~gic, the trick of trade by which th<o late Government always eucceeded in gettiug a surplus at the be~:;inning f1f the year, and a crushing deficit at the end of the year. (Government laughter.) The san1e kind of thing occnrs in connection with the aboriginal vote. liowever, it is quite unnecestJary for rne to quote any further items. I know that hon. membecs across the Chamber do not like it, :;,nd I shall not refer to any more item» on the li%. The reaoon why I call so~ marked attention to this matter is bccan,;e I wish to see ttHlt kind of financing, ·-'·~ it is c:~lled, put an end to in Queensland, no matter what Government is in office. Such a rnethod, or want of method, is ruinous to Queensland. It destroys all parliamentary c.mtrol, it destroys even the control of the permanent heads of departrnents over their subordinates, anrl it utterly dc,troys the control of the Minister over his department. \Vby, they think nothing in a dApartrnent of putting down a couple of thon~an'::l pounds to H lT.E.," and piling np a deficit. 'This kind of thing puts an end to r.ll efficient check on public expenditure, and ie really and truly an end of all honest public finance. [:\1r. ,J. LEAHY : This is not a vote of censure on the late Govf'rnment ; it is a vote of cenHure on the present UovP.rnn1ent.] ~Don't you rna.ke too Kure of that. \Vlwn I was speaking last year I showed that during the previou~ tv.'enty years the average current expenditure of the State of Qneensl ind Inet by Uorrowing hatl been £170,000 a year- I think it was £178,000; but £170,000 is near enough. rl"hn,t is U1e average amount vvhich h::td been borrowed bv one t+overnn1ent and another to meet', what 11~1ight pr(•perly be called current cx.p8nditure of the Sta,te of Quee!F.1anrJ. [Hon. R l'HlLJ': No.] But durin~ the reign nf the :PhUp (iovernment wrJ had tbe climnx. ThP re::ord of the Pbilp G lV<:rnment; ;~ 1·eally unheli vu.ble until a., n1an gnes intn the fignrf.s himsdf and sees what they indicccte. The Ph tip Oon.,nuuf,. nt were in oflicr-' f(lr three

;1,nrJ nin··, nwntbs. ThPy t_ntercd otfice tub lSD\l, aiid ]p,ft it in Septt-tnber,

takp the 1Jerind of tbreP year~ and Dint=> n1onth': fron1 J[\nuary, l:JOO, up t(~ t.he timE> they left. offic(~ in St'ptmnlwr, lHO~~. They Rtat·ted 'vitn a c edit nf 1'341!000, a.nd in f'ix rnonths th-'y hrrd reduced that crHiit tn ,t47,:JOO--·t.hat 1~, tht·y rc~ll~~ had n d:-ficienc~v durir·g tbm;p s.ix munti1s of £294,000. [Hon. H .. }'HILl': That is not e )JTer~t.] The hon. ge1tleH1P--ll !;nows vrry v,-~·11 ~ny figures are ne~ ., erv t~ft.:n wr1'llg. [Hnn. l)HlLP: t ~ay th~ t is not corn~et.] The Treasury figure~ show that on the 31st Dece1nber, lt'OD, there war~ a, cn~dit of rt>venue over expenditnre of £341,000, and that on the 30th ,J nne following, the surplus h;,d heen reduced to £4/,000. Doe., the hem. gentlemRn say that is incorrect? [Hon. R. I'HILP: \Ve only make a statement once n, year, not evt>ry Hix months.] I thought the hon. member would not dispnte it. From that time forward the Philp

Government was wading through one long slough, one long ')uagmire of deficit. As I sbcmed at the end of last year, during the last 1 hree uronths they were in otfice they had pil6d up a deficrt for their 8JCCP~13or~ uf £Hl2,000~ >v hiuh was a real net deftciL un the three nwuti1s' transrwtinns of £68~000, gl vinq thern every a_Howa.ncP fot revenue that was "tili to come in. LHon. JL l'HILP: And yqu r"a.id we would wind up with a detici!i of £1H2,000.j That "as the icdic~tiun at the ti1ne. l t 'A as only the ~y~tern of adrHioist,ration adoprr;d by the present GoYtroment that avoided it. The deficit of .£294,000 in the first six: nlnnth . .; of their adillinis'r 1rion .tnd the deficit of £fi8,000 in the last three months-total, £3G2,000 -I <AiU make them a pre,ent of. Now I will :Show what i8 tb(" I't>~-nlt of 1beir financing during the iut, rvening period of thr-ee ye~rs. [.'dr. J. -LKI.HY: Take another£l,OOO,OOO,J The revenue deticit during thoRe three yr;n·", over and above the .£3()2,000 I have spoken of-the hon. mem­ber for Bulloo asks for another £1.000,000, and I give it him now-was £1,103.000. And the loss on loans floated by the Government during that same period was £374,000. Thr> total deficiency on those three vears v. as £1,477,000, or an aver"ge of £394,000 for e\'ery twelve mnnthR' period on current expenditure. [Hon. R. PHI LP: Y on know the statement is not correct.] I want the Hou~e to under~tand that this was over and above w bat may be considered the legitimate loan expenditure of the Philp Government. For the oame period of three year~ and nine month:-; th~:>y Hpent loanrnonPy, in wbat is called the ordinary l•,gitimo.te husiness way, amounting to £-1,1DH,OOO; a11d if I add to thflt tile illegitimate loan expenditure of £1,477,000, we hav·e an twtu Ll loan expenditure by the Pbilp Govern1r,ent of £5,li76,000. [Hon. R. PHILP: You used to complain that we did not ;;pend enough of loan money.] Is not that a magnificent record? \Ve have heard a f'rEat deal of talk ab,mt how impossible it \\ ould be for any Govetntnent, except a (}overnment corn~ posed of the ~reat rnen O!•P.-'Kile, to borrow a,ny money <<n b"lmlf uf (,lueen,land. Hut the re­rrwrkable thing i~1 that whE!1 the new GovPrn­rnent t(1ok office, and 1nade a. sUttemtJnt declaring their financictl policy, the financial newspatJero in London said It Via~ the bu:;t, the nwst cheer­ing news that; had eon1e frmu A.u.,"trali~t f()r 1nany year~. [Governtnent tne1nbers: Hutr, hear!] It rnut:'t be retnentl ered that ;dl thin "']n;.;ndering of !-Hlrrowed rnoney has got to ht> pai(l for in the end. There is no lllace where N~lll(':-;i" i~ n1ore eertain tha.n at the Trt· :tsury. rrha~ ph ::1sant, ea.sy-:":'oing, nnfon:seeing po.l~c y ends in heavy burcl\-H8 nu the peoph which they<. '1nnot 6·et rid of eP. i]y a,s they can g.:t rjd of thP g·~·lJ 1 lernen who iinposed them.. ~rb._ bon. nu:::·Iuber ftJr To ··'lU vi ;le ttdtteU tbe (-~ovc nu:ent. the other d<tY w1t.h having- pnicl ea, ! for the l'~su..te. T!v hvu. g·,.;llth~~llall::.: oid it have he n bettLJr for tbe ~ta: ... ~ if tb, (}ovbrnment had kept its ecn;h in th8 Trca .mry ::nnl had given d _h ... ntures for the purcba..;e of this e.~ta.t '· .Even if i ht·y had been 4 )'f r cent. delwntures, he .aid, it would have been better and che:ttJtr to ha e given thern. Xow, this i.:; a Inat,te<.' ot . good de.1l of importance to ( lueeos-1 nd, and it constituteR a radical diifert'nCe h::tween the financial pdlicy of the late (i-overn­rnunt and the financial policy of the pr.-Rent Government. Tht~ Glenga.llan land cnst£SG,(i00. Surpo88 WB had paid for it-·-not in 4 per Ctmt. debent.ures, as the htw. gentlu11an r:..tid it W(Juld have been more profitable to pay it with-I will take :i~ per c.-ut, debentures. rrbe in1 ere'-'t on th",t amount., at 31, per cent., would be £3,031 a year; and, as the currency of thoRe deben­tures would have bePn twenty-five ye:1rs, we shonld have paid £75,000 interest on those

Hon. W Kidston.J

:-382 Address in Repl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in J1epl_y.

debentures. \Ve hap)Jened to have the "ove­reigns lying idle. J<'or twelve years threy had been lying idle, and had not c trned a three]Jenny-bit, and we used it to s:1ve Qn<'ens­land from paying a total interest bill of £75,000. (Hear, hear!) [Hon. R. PHILP: I still s>ey ic would have been better to have p iid fot the estate in debentures, which c:mld be bnu;ht back at any time.] The late Governnwllt W'" the only Government that ever attempted that kind of thing-, and they got iutu such cli· m·edit with the financhtl people in London that they had to sacrihc,, their debentures and pay tbe c<Bh at a loss of~ per cent. [Hon. R. PHILP: That is not true.] ·1 have here t.he .Executive minute dealing with d1e matter-

His Excellency the r;-overnor, at the instance ot the Honunrablc the'n·cantrer. informs tile Council that the Agent-Gcueral, havmg Hdvised that eertain debentures is~ued in connection with recent rcpnrehas?s of estate~ were afioat in tlw London m:trket to the detriment of other Quccmslan<t Goyernnwnt seeuritic1', the Tre11surer, with a view to removing the disturbing element in the market, has purf~hasrrl the debentures for £·13,1)00, ~iven as part pw.·menL for the Dnrnndur Estate at £99 lOs. gross, ur1d recommends that the purchase be ap­proved, that the debentures be c tlwelled, and the purchase money, .t•i2,7E5, be charged to unforeseen expenditure trust.

Of cour'e you understand that, in addition to the loss of ~ per cent. on this clever financing, the Government had to pay brokerage and a number of lhtle things which iltick fast between buyer and seller. [11r. ,J. LEAHY: Instead of " Ios~, they made a profi& on the transaction.] As I have said, that was the only attempt made in that direction, and that was how it panned nut. (Note.--My reference to the purchase of those debentures was made on the spur of the moment, tbe Executive minute being handed to n1e while I was speaking·, and I inadvertently fell into the error of stating that the pm·chase of those deben­tures at .£99 10s. was a loss of 10s.·per cent., in­stead of a profit of that amount. I notice this in going over the proof, and consider it better to cor­rect such an error before Hansard is issued at all.) Any person, I think, who has any regard for the npholding of the credit of Queensland in the London money market will recognise at once how much better it is for our credit there that we should pay cash for that large transaction rather than i>sue debentures which would have been 'ent to the London money market. [Hon. R. PHILP: Y on have often tuld us there was no money in the TreAsury.] Asitbappens, that money was not in the Treasury; I got it from outside. We have been assured over and over again that the late Government wonld not have acted in that way, :;,nd I can readily believe it. The financial policy of the late Government was to borrow all they could, and as long as they could. Now, I want to ehow the House and the country ,,bat the result was. The year the Philp Government took office the interest on the public debt was .£!,339,000. The year when the Philp Govern­ment left office the interest bill was .£1,547,000. In three years and nine months the interest bill of this country has increased by .£208,000. [Mr. J. LEAHY: You have got 300 mileo~ of new railway t1nd many other things with the money.] And that is the party some persons are wanting to hand us back to ! No wonder we have to retrench. Now, it is quite possible that some quibbling may be done about the gross interest bill and

the net charge on revenue. [Hon. [9·30 p.m.] R. PHILP : \Vhy not be honest,

and charge the amount of money we spent out of loan?] Hon. members may as well understand that there is a difference between the charge on revenue and the actual amount of our indebtedness. The actual amount of revenue cannot be stated yet for this year, because it has not closed; but last year it showed there was an

[Bon. W. Kidston.

increasP on the actuttl charge on revenuP during the three years an I nine months of the Philp Guvermn-•nt of £238,000, which l!l1ke' it worse than I firs~ ota ed it 1 o be. The net cl1arge on revenue is a flnctua1.ing thing. It depe11ds very much on the retut ns from our investment.s, and I do not t ,lee the increa--e in our nAt inter\-'.St bill, which increa,ed by !:208,000. [Hon. R. PHILP: You rnake the wo, ~ c ,~.::;e poP.-.iblP.] };'or in­stance, thi~ policy of t:1e pre-.;...-nt Governlflent with the l(lf':cd ant!lorities has already resultt'd in an incre•;se of £20,000 thi' yea.r, and I m 'V jus' say Lo some h~~n. rnemberR who ha\e Cllmplainerl that I was a very hard ta ... kmaster t.' tho.-.,e lo(ml authoride~, th,tt very ma.ny of cht>n1 have t!1anked nw for it. [Govt·rnn1ent lnetuber.s: Hear, be:1r.] 'rhe only ul une I have g•lt fur d1 a!ing- fairly between the locnl anthori· ies ::1.nd the general tax· payer ha.s not been frmn Ulemb~r_<uf l•1eal author.i­ties, but fromrnetnller.-; of thit; ~-ln:~:3t,, '·~hn us~ It for puliLical purp •ReR. f:\I:· .. J. LEAH¥: That h"

mere b'·atement.] [Mr. MucO.'\.HY: lheked up by actual L.cts.] The particular t.wt is this: that riuring the thrt'€ ye<.trA and nine uwnths thP­Pl1ilu Go\·ernment wat; jn otfic~· OH·· interest bill incr~a,ed by somet.hing- like £208,000. That is the thing that mad-· the urgent m·Ct •sity for re­trenchntent, a.nd tht· c•1mpla.int about the present Governn1ent for rt-'trenching the civil servants would be much b"tter applied to the Govern­rnRnt which rnade that retrenchment nece:-~sary. [Mr. J'. LJCAHY: If Y"U want to build railways you will have to pay the interest on the money.] Yet there are some men who protest against the retrenchment policy forced on this Government if Queensland i' to p<y her way, and while they protest a.;ainst that they wish to go hack into the armt; of the Goverument who made it a necessity. They wish Q11eensland to return "like a dog to its vomit," and I hope the electors will have some~hing to say abnut it. I wish now to give the record of the Morgan Government for the short p··riod that they have been in office. As I explained, when we took office at the end of SeJJtember last., thPre was an actnal deficit at the Treasnr!· of £162,000, and I explained that after giving the fullest credit for revenue that was still tu come in that might be fairly credited to these three months, it left a real net deficit at the end of the first three months of the financial year of .£68,000. That was the position when the Government took pffice. To deal with it the Government have had to face many an unpleasant duty; but this can be said of the Morgan Government, at any rate: that they have faced these difficultie' without fear or favour. [Government members: Hear, hear !] I may jmt say in connection with the silly things wbwh have been ,aid about my chief, the present Premier, as to his being bossed by this one and that one, that the Premier has bt'en an enconrage1nent and an inspiration to every M mister in the way of doing the right thing and the straight thing for the general tax­payers of the country. [Government members : Hear, hmor !] \Vhat is the broad result financi­ally of our eight. months of office? \Ve have actuaJ!y in that time pulled Queen,Jand out of the quagmire that "he was in. (Govern­ment cheers and Opposition laughter.) vVe did not do it all at once-that wa' not possible. As I h~,-e said, it was the middle of the financial vcar before we got our hands on the thing at all, and in the '~riy part of the year there was a little improvement. But the last four months of thi. year will actueJiy show a snrplus, the first surplus ,;hown since-a long time ago. (Laughter.) I may just~how hon. gentlemen the figureH-not for t.he last four months of the year, which I have not got yet- but I will take the revenue of the last three months-March, April, and May. The revenue was £866,000,

Address in ReplJJ. [9 JUNE.] Address in Repl,y. 383

the expenditure £489,000, and the interest for the three mnnths, which has become very heavy now, was £3H6,000. Tmagine the deplomble con­dition of a country with such a big interest bill as that! Our general expenditure for the three months w'" £41'0,000, and the interest. we have to pay was £:l8li,OOO, or nearly 50 per cent. The net result is a debit ba:anee of £9,000. I would point out that we get practically nothing from the F.·del',,] G;,vernment this year. The_v have carried £30,000 over, and it will c<>me in at the end of ~June; :.;u t.hat. the real position of the TrPa"'ury at t.hP- end of ::\1;-:ty was a practical surplus of .£20,000 for those three months. I know rnany geHtletnen t..)ppnsite 1Ad,nt to hlan1e the Gov. rnment, but I think it is very gratifying to everyone, whether they belong to the ·Government or whether they be}(,ng to the Opp1•s tion, t;n s·-·e that Queen;:;lanrl -is so nearly c ·ruing l'~to a :1onnd fiHancial position again. (Heat·, hear !) It. has been frequently said in th,_. cuur~e of thi'"' debate that the saving in expend1tnre th;s year as con1pa.red with last year "''" £118,000~rwt for the whole year, but for that period of the year-~ he probable saving is £11i0.000 on the who:e expt•nditure of last year. \Vhen the hnn. lUPrnber for Bulloo ,was spt king I <St uight h<; evidently anticipated that the Govern1nrnt would t.e in a rather w1od position, and ho :;aid thHt what the Gover:nrnent had to sho -v is what they ha vu saved on the Estim>ttes-if they connot s!ww that they have saved on the E<tir:,ates they can show nothing. I am qwte willing to compare the h,te Govern~ ment and the present Government on that fonting-on what we saved on the Estimates. The hon. member for Bulloo, speaking last night, said-

Analysing the figures and the Estimates for the year, and the expePditure for the ten mcnths of the year, they touud that the whole of the saving amounted to only £9,674.

Let me show what the facts are. On the first three months of t h·· year the Philp Government succeeded in saving on their Estimatfs £3,041-an avera.;e of £1,000 a month. From our past experience of that Government 1 think I need hardly s11y that that was fairly good evidence that their econmnic tl res1•urcee were about exhausted. [Mr. J. LEAHY: They saved £14,000 the first three month>.] Here ar., the TreaHury figure--not my figures-not the figures of the Trea,urer, but figures prepared by the Treasury officer;, and they show that at the end of Sep­tember last the s11ving on the Estimates was £l:I,OOO for the whole three months. Here are tbe same figures, m'de out on the same scale, which show that at the end of eleven months, on the 31-t May, the saving on the Estimates effected by us was £88,000. [Mr. J. LEAHY: Bunkum,] If I deduct from that £88,000 the £3,000 saving- effected in the first three months, I find the sa.ving effected on the Estimates of our predecessors by the \fnrgan Government during eight months was £85,000. Now I hope the hon. member for Bt1lloo is batisfied. [JYir. ,T. LEAHY: Tbe Premier was speaking of ten months, and I was speaking of ten months. Now you are bring·ing in <mother month. I chal­lenge you to disprove it.l The hem. gP.ntleman is only making rrmtters worse. [Mr . • T. LEAHY: "Will you give us the figures for the ten months?] I will show that he is unl:v making the position worse instead of bet' er. [Hon. E. B. FoRRRST: Give U:3 the fignres fur the ten rnonths, and let us have a look at them for ourselves.] The s.ving on the Estimates W;ts £85,000. [Mr·. ,T. LEAHY: Give the figures for the ten months that I quoted.] The saving thot I have shown has bP.en eff cted in eight months by the Morgan Government on the estimate of expenditure, but hon. members must understand,

as I have repeatedly told them before, that we made little of that saving in the ea.rli''" part of the year. It was only later that the M:organ Government economieil began to have effect on the expenditure. J:i..,1)r instance, at the eHd of :March, when the M organ Government had only been in office six months, we bad only save<l a matter of £53,000, or £8,800 per month; but by the time we h ,d been i,, office eight months the 'aving had riF<m tt> £85,000, nr £10,G33 per month over the whole eight months. I want to l"'ho\V t.ha.t the saving is impro\·ing as vve go along. l\ow that is the broad remlt of the :\fr,rgan Govern­ment admini,tration for eight months. [Mr. ,J. LEAHY : You are going to have a deficit in the fin.-st season tll:tc Queeroshnd ev<·r experienced.] I h 've left out a number of things that I slwuld have liked to refer to, but I thought it was neces­SD-ry undtr present ci1 cumstance:-; to rnake Homo con<pari,on between the result, of the fiuanchtl po:icy of the late and the,present Government·~. I think it is qui•e a legitimate thing to do that, for thi::; reas(m: Hon. rnen1bers ha\·e heen aHked 1o

1 vote agi1inst the Government, a11tl I think it is

! perfectly proper th~t they should quite nnder­st:l.nd \Vhat it is they ore chno .. .:;ing bet,veen--rt Goverrnnent that has not only profeHo.:;ed to be de-in,u,; uf pulling Qneensland out of the quag­mire of deficit in which she haH been, hut has sho\VD at leat"t ~ome hone~~.t:v of purpmw in the matter, and some very fair effort at ac•ually doing iL, or a Government who, when in office, were respnn~ible for a chronicdeficitof va.ryingan1ount. I say these things n<Jt because I have anv notion that it will very largely affect the vote that, will be tahn one way or the o• her ; but I want the country to know the facts, to know tbe Govern­ment that thev have bad, and the Government they h• ve now in power. \Vhatever this House may do, the electors of Queensland, whoee busi­ness~ is bring managed or mismanaged by the Government that sits in this House, ought to have a say in th" matter. I speak for myself, as a member of the Government, and I believe in saying so I speak for every member of the G1)verHn1ent. I do nut give a snap of a finger how the vote goes, so long as the people of Queensland are given a choice between the two policie•. Now, I am not very sure that the Opposition, if they will permit me to say so­and l know something about it-will not have excellent reason for being sorry if they succeed. [Hon. D. H. DALRYMPLE: As you have been by taking office.] At all events, I am not troubled abon!. the vote one way or the other. For myself I do not want any half-hearted support. I do not want to be supported in office by hon. gentle­men "h•> protect the Premier as Brutns pro­tected Cresar. No man needs to vote for the Go­vermnent unless he is prepared to suppnrt the Government's policy. This Government do not want to be here unless it is supported by rnen who want to see its policy carried out, and believe it is a gnod policy for Queens­lan·l. It is not a question of whether we have a right to be here or not. It is a qmqion whether it is desirable in tbe inte­rests d the country that we should be here under the prese'nt conditions. Fortunately we have bad an opportunity of showing a method of"'' mini>'tering the affairs of Queensland which, in the opinion of very competent judge,-who have never been known to be in sympathy with the party tn which I belong, and about whose sympathv with the present Government I have a g.,od deal of rJ,.nbt-is the financial policy which ho'ds out a bright hnpe of bringing- Queensland out d the quagmire of defidt and diffi;:mlty that it h~~s heen in for so long; and \V8 have in addi­tion bid a legislative policy before thH House and the country which, whether hon. members agree with it or not, they c"nnot fail to recognise

Hon. W. Kidston. J

384 Adclnss tn Reply. [ASSEMBLY.J Address tn Rep1,y.

means a policy of progrecs and reform. [The HOME SJWRETAHT: That is onl' chief sin.] [An Opposition member: Tloere is nothing m it.] Tt~e rronhle is there is too much in jt. There is n1uch in it that hon. g-entlernen opposite do not like. I see the hon. member for :'Jorth Bri,<bane sitting- ~il, n~:. 1-Ie kno ''S there is "Otnet·ting in it th>tt be •loes not likP. The bon. membet' t<.ld us thi" afternoon th:1 the wa"' jn f~1.vour of one 1nan one vote. fHon. B. B. FonRE~T: I have al•vays said w.] Yes, the hon. member has always Raid ~o, and h<9 \Vants to ~{O on always saying so. (L:mght,~r.) Hi.< tr•lllble is thnt, if this GovernnJent remains in :JOwer, he wiJ nut, ba.ve th<: chanc" of saying it. It will bec<>me the la.v, nnd his platfnnn democracy will Amonnt tn nothing. It is Hasy to lw in favour of i'll8 man one vPte and then walk acnF'3 the Chamber nnd vote a~ainst thP- only (:iovernment (~nt>f:'Dciland has had fur t\Vt>l" ~ vears thnt has 1narl.e any serious a.t teo1pt to carry one nJan one vo· e. If thP hon. rnernbpr ima.ginf> .. that he can deceive tiH, electm' of Kortb Brisbane any longer with that kind of pap, he i;; maklllg a rmstHke, and I hope he will soon hav~ iH1 oppntunity gt finding it out. [Hon. E. B. l<'oRRE~T: I hope so, too.] I hopP- he will have to go down to N udgee ()r some plrtce like .that. [Hon. K B. :FoRHES1': 'l'hey want sorneh•ldy Up at R•1ckhampr.un. I will look you up.] I have spoken a good cleal longer than I intended to. I have tried to show what the, policy of the Government ha;; been. I ha,·e tried to show what is our position before this House and before the country. [:Vlr .• T. LEAHY: You have failed ab">lut•·ly.] The Hnnse can please itself how it will vnte on the motion, but I have no doubt at. all wh.>t the cou"try will eay ahout it wh n they get the opportunity of choo ... ing between these bvo policies. (Govern­ment cheer~.)

Yir. T. B. ORIBB (Ipswich), who on rising­wa;;: reeei H'd w1th Oppo;-.itinn cheer~, (,aid: I feel ~mnewhat diffident. in rising to reply to the Trea,.;urer~ who ha~ tre?~tf d t.he I--Iou8e to a lal'ge Hl<tss of tigurt~, which \vere ratlv_,r diffieult to follotv and to trtx onr,.s 1nind \\'ith, and in addi­tion to tbis I was not able to hear all that the 'Tre:1-;nrPr ;:.:: tid. I cannot-, tht>refore, follow him as clo,elv RS T shonld like•. and hon. members will und~rstanc! why I will not attempt to-night to revly to everything; t.hat the hem. gentleman said. The h(lfl. gentte1n-:n fir;-;t of all trt>att:>d the 1-Ionse to ,' littlt> HA cauri\lned us ag-ainst paylng n.ny to \vhat \Ve htRr in thf-J t-~treet, and he s·tid that :-\l)me of the rf::nmrks which hnd tlf·en ma•~e with regard to certain appointments were attribuTable to pa~ ing too mneh :J.,ttention t' snch talk; but whPn it is stD.ted hy a proJninent :..;.uppDrter (,f the Govern­ll1ent, \>·lth1n thH prrci:.,ets of thiH Hon~e 1 hat. tb-: cel~hc,ted 11r. ~Jo11es was a '.Ve]..;}1f-•r and ba.d t:t1\t-_1l him rlown tu :be PXtent nf £;)0, •mrely smne ,ttention shonld he p;1id to it. Tbeu, 'VJ\ h reg;n·d tn the snppn~ -·d rPlat.innship be­t\vf::;:n t.he hon. gnntlernan c1nd .:.Hr. BrPnnan, thr officP.r who wa.-.; appointed n~ a member t;f th" civil Rervice bn::trd of inquiry, tbt~ whole tro1~ble in thn.t c:;c,e P.rfJ~e fron1 the hon. LiE'lnher for Ch·nnont, who l'-:it8 behinct and snpporl~ the G(l\'f'rnnlen'-.., s~ating- in thiR 1-lonse that J\;1r. Brennan \Vas a re-lative of the Trr:·1,..:urPr)s. Elud that st;-o~tenv-nt not hPen rnarle by tlHl hon. mem­her, no Rtat~ment of that kind wouk! have been r11adn l1y hon. n1t-n1bers on this ~idP. After indulging in his little hnrnily, the Treasurer should not have repeated in this House the cbarl'e which L' reported to have been made hy the Secretary for Agriculture at .E~k-I speak suhject to correction-that the late :\llinistry harl deliberately falsified the accounts, provoking the remark by a gentleman present at that meeting :

[Hon. W. Kidston.

"How is it that the Auditor-Genera!, who is appointed by Parliament) and who i.:; an inde­pendPnt officl-'r 1 h<lf.; not. callPd a.ttpn· ion to the fai-;ificati:)n referred tfJ by t· e hon. gentlPman ?)' The statmn'"'nt made by t.he Tr.->aStH't-'t' i,::; th.--tt the late Government h.ul ddiber,ttelv cut out of their }J::3timateR expenditure which they knew would h1 ,.e ce> be incurred, and that chey die! not include it; in their E:;;;timat;~s becau."'e they wanted to ::;how a cre.Ht ba.lance. Now1 I do not \Vish to use any unparliamentary lnnguagt""', bnt I will a•,k the Treasure:.· to apply to himsPif the ~trnngest term that ir-. is po:·•:;lblA to U'i(-' in this Hun...;R when I say th •t :-:'J.ch a Htat(~lnent. is a.ltogeth~w untrue, r1nd I will :3ay more-d~·liber~ ateiy untrne. I challenge the hon. gentlen1a.n to prove his assertion. Thw h;m. gentlt>rnan's statements practically amnnnt t<• this--that I, a.R Treasurer, n..;ed my posi ion tn deliberately falsify the public 1CC•)unt;:;. [Go\'ernment rnem­bere: No.] \Yell, all I can say is that, if I was g-uilty of anything of that kind, I nnght to be turned out of thP 1-fnu::;e, and even ont nf the StHte. [Hon. D. H. llALRD!PLE: So ought t.he Auditor-General.] It cowes with a very had grace from th · hon. gent.leman to cast such serious asper~ions on rnernb-"rs of this Oharnber with whom he has been a.sociated for so long. Of course I had some difficulty in following the hon. gentleman, but I willc:ive him the items nf

unfore;;een expc·nditure for 1901-2 [10 p.m.] whicll were passed in 1902. I think

he told ns th et the unforeseen expendit.urA for the year waR srm1r-Lhing like £500,000; but that statement is inconect, and I \vill give the H·1u:.;;e ~~mne infurrnation with regard tn thif{ rnatter. The unforeseen expendi­ture for t.h:1t VPar in connPction with 8ehPdules B and D amounted to £13,5Gli fis., and what did they eonsiRt of? There \\as an allowance of £000 to Mr. Gray, the late Commissioner for Railw::tys, on hi~ ret;irement; alsq pensions to Mr. Deshon. the late Auditor-Gel'"ral, two members of the late Public Service Board, and r.thers who wer6 eutitled to the 'ame und•'r the old Superannna.tinn ..:\.et) and if the~e pt>nR1ons hod not been [Xtid the Government wonld have beeu guilty of repudiation. Pt>rhap~ the hon. gentleman think' tbat, the Government should be guilt:v of repudiation; be rnny t1f)t he advPrse to that kind of t.hing-, bnt tJy· n18111bers of the late ~.Iini::;try were ahvays very carP.fnl v:ith n-gard tn the oblig-:{tions they ent,'red intc unrl(~1· thP. S-'~nCtLn of :PctrliamPnt-: 11nd they ohs;erved tlH·ln. Then there vvaR the intPrf ·.;;~. on lo:1ni-:i ant,1JOrisf-:Jd }l,nd fiPatt·d ~fter ,_,a~si.n..o: th8 :F:-;tirnittP;.;, \vhi.ch had to be paid, and £or 1..vhich no pru\·i~ion cnnld be nl·tde on the E:-::tirnate.s until p:ulia .. nH~ntary sanction to loan\'._-.; (/bt1inql; and the int'."resl'. that ye3r amount~d to £-17.000. Tlwn thl're \V • the unfore::<t-Nl cxr C'n·iitnre of £:i:'.l7 for snndry item~, and £1,!i00 fnr Council ;nld Asser:1hl.Y and for rni.~c dlanRous R<:"rvices, Chi0f Secretary's DPp::tr' went, inc1nding ne 1rly £1,000 expem:'!'.; in con r _. <Jti( •n with the Son th ..._f\.._frie:l,ll cuntingent~. Th, re 't ts 'he uufon- ,,e~n expc!ldilun-· in c:)nnPctitln \Vi~h the b11hnnic plagtFJ; and I \VOnld like t1J know ho\<..' a,11~.,. Go~ vernment conld provide in t}w Etitiu1ates fnr such ~Ln item as tha,t, or any c;-tlamiry of .such charac' er. A.nd the un fort-, e~n ~,x r 1en~P ~ in con­nrct.inn wi!;h the Hrnne Secrr-•tary\; DPpartmPnt., plague, Gdvernment printing, ch_aritie...:, i'~tc., wPre £.JB,OOO~·-l am givin1-:; roHJh figures. The item pf f2,GOO for Government. printi•1go ccc.rred in 1901-2. I am not quit· s<ue what, it wa.s fnr \Vithont inquiry--for this iR a Iong tin1e to carry one\; 1nemory back. Then there was an additionol expenditure of £13,000 on account of rreasury and J ust.ice, for coast survey, New Guinea, and law costt:. Then, in connection with the survey of land, £7,000 was

Address in Rcp1,1J. [9 JnE.] Addi'ess in Rer1.1J. 385

pa.i<l to licen::~~d sut·veyol ·. T::e tn~ar1 111 fo:"osorn Pxpenditure inr t,hatyear, inc.:I•Jdin:...; :.\i\wu,ys in the reve;,tu~ depa,rtrn...,nt) \', , tl\·3, and I ha.Vf! giv;,JI ::t s1it<ht indicn,.·ion ~t,...; tn hov.. (>x-pend1tun: tlCCHI'f':d, [n ( mneetion with tht trn ,t, fnnd::-, therM wa2 <-V1 ::tdditi<lJWJ P . .:pewlitnreof £1m).000 i1 ;r tht> Sunth Afrir·u1 euntinge•1 t-,, .Prn~ perly that lllOllt:/ t':J~Jnlci b;-lVf:- be_'n pa.id hy thn Impe:ial Government, but in the m• ·nti1ue 1t had t1) be pl'OVidetl for. rhe ~otal unforP .. k~P-11 Pxp<:>nditure \Vith re!:; ,rei to the t.rust fnnd:-;, inclnding- thi .... , \r~~~ lle;U·;~., £117,000. Then in connecti.\u 'ith the l():"t fnnd:-;, tht.-'Xe wa.-< <-tn additional unfrJre..: ·en exper!dit'1c of .£7,:3:)2 for !lefenee, and £;3?),000 for : 'Jrchase fr•l111 the Chnrch of :Euglanrl t.he pr ,pert,y in Jt:~izrtb~th, \Vlllinm, and (;l str~et~. This is the celebrated £a:>,ooo \ve h •,'v~e hBrtrd ;-;n n:mch :lbont. In the first ph l cune into ofilc:e, tlll~ ·:;a~ revenue :1.cco11nt, nd. n.fter I hact. the m ttRr I 1··~me to the Cili!:.;lllsiqn .'t Nhnnld not hav(:-~ lwen KO ch<.1,rgec1, anrl tba~. it ..::hon1d h:1 e been (:ha.rgt:>d to loa.n a:·connt. a . .: it repres, nted ;t, t ·-n~;ibl11 a~ser, itlld so tl:ut £3:3,000, uudf:'r rny in~trnct"io~J::;:, w::t.-; tLtnt>ferred front t~w r.aYf'.nue :1cconnt to ! he lo:ln aec onrn. I ti1iuk th:lt m•lSt hon. me1nb~rs wiH s1y th.tt I wa., cor­rect in S•) doinl!. If then'\ YnH ::tn_,~ irre~nl:trjJ~y in thi~, it wnuld havP heen eom1.neuted on b;v th~ Anditor-(i-f'neral in hiH rP.prlrt. Th.:n "~'\ na.\·e the harhour~ nnd rivt I'~ account~ in v.rhieh ttwre \L\S an ::tdd.itinna! expenditure of £11,000 i"or expen~ in connection w1th the irn-proveme.nt of tllP Brishine lU\'(~1'. total 8uprJlen1en:~uy "I1'>an E:-;titna,·.t>s -- dl e:xp-'nditnr -ea.nh~ to £123,000 fl)r that, year. Tna..t rna.keM a tt)'·cd unfor•::m'-'n 8'\fH.l.ndit.nrt' for th~t Yl'ar ,,f £t>00,0(10, arJ<l i thiuk tit•. :tmounts charg d to nnf•n"l'SPl'n cxpenditnre c ndd not ha,vf~ bee;~ fore~.;een bv anv o~~·c1i n:;~.,rv 'l,reasnrer. I would alf.,o a<;;k hon~ meri1her~ to :\-'1r in mind that the nnfor,~,Pt>n (~xpendit-nre for one yFar llc-..S to be fin,1!ly pa:-;sed hy thP H ~w:;e, and is charged agR.inst t~•a,t year. In the Financl·-d Stateull.l.IH whieh _[ delivered in this Cha.~nbt·r on thf-J 11th of ~..\ugn~t lasL. ye::tr l grtve a st·-~.ternent of the rect>i!_1ts and r-xpenditnre, and c·nnpnxed_ the actnal P:'\lk'nditur~ with th13 estirn tHl eX!H'lH1i­tnre. Thi-; \,·a,,; th•' result: that notwit.hs ~r,din(r the larf;~ ;-tm·1unt r1f unforesHPn ~'nditur~ which canw in tha,t year, and the that adc1itional interest had t•l he pnid. we ~-'pent £83, 1-:Hi Jt,.;:;-:; than w.-1;.; PstinE~~f'd. T ht)pe r.hn.s hon. mernh:r:s \vill be;-n· that fac'. in n1i11d. ThP TrPasnrer h'-t~ l•een rna.king f1, gre 1.t de, I u;· capittd out of the fact-~-,Jr ,..;nppo:-::.· d tact, f:.11·1t has yet to be proved~that during the p , ..... t ei1.;ht rnonths the present Gnvernrnenr. :-;avecl ~8':.,000 on 1 he Estl­nlates of the previ<lU~ Go\·ernrne,lt. \Ve mtnnot rlispute his sta.toment until we have the actw1l fignres in nnr posse!--,Sion, sn that jt is no u~e rlbcns.;.;ing it nt r;lw tl111e. \Vhen the hem. gentleman n1 tde li'inaucial Nt.a.te1nent in Uctuber Lnt year, he llla'~e out thrtt there W<t:3 what he called "' nornin:1.! deficit. nf £1(;2 27-t at thf·:end of Sept~mb2r. \Vt> \.ent fnlly in~.u th·tt rna~ter at the tit:Je, :tn(1 I d ont ~BVt-'rul errors that th~- 'f·re .~nr 'r on rhat, oeca,;;i(m, Among other things, It}' !1 p linted out tha,~, the ditft~rence Letw·een ns was princip dly in -.tiinate of revenne, and lt 1~ I' I' I t itrl).r yet to ~ 'Y '\Vhether the present Tre~i· nrer or rnysPif will be 11earPr the rnark, aR that c:nmot he clt>L~-'rnnned unt.i[ the end of this month; bn· I thlllk it ·will be found that my ef.ltiuu,te w;L:; VPry 1nnch nearer to it than th:1t of the l'rpaRurer, particularly when re•:ard is ha l to the explana­tion wbich l made on thar occasion. The hon. gentlen1an .-.aid tha.t during· the t.lu ee year~ and nine month:-; the Philp GovPrnrnent '"'·ere in office the interest bill was increased by £208,000.

lfl04-2B

\Vhen th.--" 1- -,1~. n1e1nber n1entinned t!!::t.l-, one 111ight ha.ve :n1~v~::i1;ecl that W·' borrrJWtd that UlOlF~Y and :-5hnpl_" t!new it av.r:1y. The hon. gent:t"lUtn rnu-..t. know thnt all tf1e llliHJ8)' which wa'" b()rrO\\'Fd bv tho:> L>h· ( ~O'-'"l"llment was borr<l' ed 011 th·l · of thi....: Chnmber. :\._ fnl! exp1anati~;n qf propo~ed to b'·' horrq1~, ed wa to wn.s ~iYen tn the House bef ·re th~ l~)~tn \Vit!-i nnLhorised) or wn.s pln;:(;d upon tlw m trk~>t, ::~o ha.t if the latA

are . til~ whoh~ of the f1Jr th~,t loan E'XJH"nd.itnrf'.

nw.::t of thr Loan J1:~;tinw.tc::~ \vith VAry fpw di-<~en• :(,ns, a:nd

mn·.t b> '" in lllind chat by the of t:1at nv-nE'Y, l~{ll' which the

TrerJ. nn·l' no\\ .se··ks i o n~ n, 11011Rible, there w>·: an in"rPa~t> in the {'f onr t•ailways m1d in loans tu locn1 <tHd th}1t build-ing--.: ll.'tv, 1_, r.>n t'tecu -j~ },c.lv~' (·n~hJ, d us to a\·(ljd p;tying rr-~nt. \Viih r~:>SJH·ct to 'he lar ~e a.u1r1nnt nf lfl')J;''V whieh h ~...:: lJPt'll it should be renv~uiben 1 1 hat we ha vt> ·"OlrlP

fol' the ~~'-pPnditure of thnt 1t•<1n money, and runst deprecat~· the nt.titlH~t· nf the Tre3"11l'er tryi11g t.o deL.me the lab-' Gqvernment by en­dcd\"V<H·ing t•) rna.l;;:e ()llt that. the expenditun wat-; incn~~1~1~d withuut. any C:PtniJensating n.dYantag·e. All th<~: nww-y' o<lJPnt hy the late :llinistry, w h~thel' frmll thH k~n fnncl, trnst fund, or re\UlUC, han~ lJc~u t_~r;;ught }'d re thi·-, Ch;nnber a::d 1 ct.:\'e(l th. ::-1--sent of hon. 1nnnUers. If we ~.vere g.1ilty (If fal:·df~·i11g ihe aC~·'UUts as ;;tatu1, not < nly shtJUld we hu\·e be~·n un\vorthy of tlw ,.110d opinion ()f thi~ 1I01J!-;P, bnt we should have "beun held np to public execration. The Treasnn-;r, n:-> long ?.s l ( 1.n recoHrct, has be•n nwy fn:·.P in hi~~ caqJit'g' ctitici~n1s nn the in-· tegcit~· of hi~ volitical opponent . .;;. There i,"' an nn1end1ue11t befnre the 1-ion ... e to th efff'Ct that thP liou~e i~ nut c-ati·"fied ,, ith the manner in ,,, hich Olll' affaiu ha'n h1-pn a(hninis ered Ly the present GoYernntent. I h:"-1 1ntDJH.1ed to confine TllJ -,elf a,-: Inn:.?h ll~ IJO"'-lhle to -.Jnt, but the reJnark,.;; of the TrC'a~.:an't-t' ha n~ ea 1;::-;ed rne to digres . ..; on1ewhnt. \Vith all m,.. reRpec;t for tllf~ lea•1er f'l' the pre"·~n':. (~o\·ernnH:nt, I n1u~t ~-:::ty I regret tlwt e ha-1 enterel1 jntd an allia11ct~ with the; Lahonr and a· they are the dorn1nant }J<ll' y on otht'r -ide, we can only louk npoa hirn a~ their nollJina.l leader. The .Ln bonr r uty hctve eJectu:l t,lwir own leadtT. They lllay talk about their loyalty, bnt their \viil !J,, t(J LhPir own elected Jr ,du\ :.111.d J1C1t the 10ii'le1· of thP (:.iov~ rnment. Yon c:·::mrwt call it a t:oali~ion. because the Jiiui . ...;try llf tlu~ d~)Y ;ll'e kept in power hv a di;.;tinct. party out,sj1;t> thP .\rlministratinn, \~ho do I':tlt take tLe rf :-.: 1 onsibility of governrnent. It v,,_;,s: a!l very \Vell for th? l'lllll. n1en1ber for· Charters Towc-1 ~ la~t night to talk ahnut his !ovally to the Premi•'r. \V'<e can take that for \1,h:->t it iR ;vorth. \'::/A find it statl,i in thf; L·dJonr orga.ns, nnri lly prmnint:'nt rnen,ber~ of the pitrty, that they are simply rnakill'..; nse of tb· pre&<nt J?retnier nntll t~H~ Elect Jral Bi1l iR pa~RPd, whPn they hope to be :.tble to form a }lini,.;; ry of r}1~ir O',, n: If this is to be a sh•pping­:-:;tone to n. l~a.bcour Go,·erntllent, _[ ean •1uite undt~rstand tno..t the~,· wLl do all in tlwir power to k Pp the Premier in • ·f;icp until thr-ir opportunit-y cnn1e:-; to take> po· ... c,-.ion (Jf J

Tr .. ~asury Lenc~·. fn agrPeable contrast to the Treasnrpr, we find t.he Premit•r saying, in his speech on the AcldreBS in Reply--

I am not here to lwtkc capital aga.ill.-;t my prede­I am quit~~ p!'epared to admit that ibe chamres

i.l:tvc be!Jn brrmght about in the conntry's fi.nanc·n-. luxe betn largely flue to causts beyond the (~Ontrol of l1inbters, jnst a~ the ret<nlts which ex­.:\lmisters l1 :Jd to disc!ose 1Yere largely due to causes 1xyond their ~ontrol.

ll.l'l-. T. B. Cribb.]

38G [ ASS.EMBLY. J Addrc·ss in Repl;IJ·

With regard to the preeent Secretary for Agri­culture, we· ~n remPillbt:>r what au ardent Jup­porter he w;w of the Philp Gowrmnent, and how last y ·.n·, in moving the AddreR~ in Reply, he gave thern alnH Ht unstinted praise. Since

then he has been condemning the [10·30p.m.] GoY·<rnment for the very thi{ige he

c;.overrHnf-mt i:-; beyon\1 rny COlllprehension. I had a difi't·reut opininn ab.mt the hon. nletuber when I C<.ttne to th,J Charnber, but I have c01ne to the conclusion that wh 'the ha~; said in the House '111 previ~)US (fCca..:;inns and what he i:-. prepared to do now are toLity different. Apparent.iy he has changt>d his opinions, and l helievp; he is: pre­p<:treu to gu f',\'c:Il further su long as he can hold office. \Vith regard to my hem. friend and col­league, the Attorney-General, I cannot accns2 hin::. of any chany.e of front. He came to the Chamber with an absolutely iree hand. He made no change in his vie'ws, and no possi b]e excep-

agreed with previously. Further than that, he is IlO\V p~cpared to go back on the principles to which he ga,·e utteranc.· in his opening speech in this Cbamber. On that occat-iiou be very Htrongl:v supp.)rted th6 con­tention of the Premier for a reduction in the number of membere, He said-~ 1 tion coulc{ be taken to hi,; joining the ptesent.

1 JYiiniRtry. He had nothing to go back 011. The reduction or the nnmbor of ltembor .. ~ oi tUb Hou~e \s a popular anrt <l right refc:rcn. n.nd this Honse cannot possibly ignore the demand that is made iu this direction from Cape Yol'k to lloint. Danger. It 1neans self-effacement; for some of ns it meam; po1itic,:tl , extinction. It mean;., ]Hi trio tie ..,c1f-::w"'rificc: bnt it 1

may as~ist hon. members tl; temembPr Addisnn·:-; words-

What pity i~ it That we can die but once to serve our country~

Does the hem. gentleman go back on those worrls? He declared on this occa,ion that the country de,ired it from C>tpe York to Point Danger, and l quite a.,-ree with him. That was one of the prominent items on tlw platform of the late Prernier.-the reduction of n1en1berd. It w.t::; <1i"'o 1

spoken about and supported by rnany <,f his support<etS. rThe PrmMllm: Yuu know there was not the slightest chance of your carrying that measure.] [Hon. D. H. lJ.URBfPLE: If your pa1ty will sup!Jort it they will.] [The PmmiER: There is not the slightest chance.]

The SPEAKEll: Order!

~Ir. T. B. CRIBB : The Premie-r should not judge other men bers by himself. [The PREMIER: Are you sincere?] The bun. member for Mackay will bear me out that the late GuYernment were prernred to go on with that Bill. [The Pm:1IIER: \Vhat vou were .:tiining at wa~ tu cat down membe;·s' salariee.] [Hon. D. H. DALHDlPLE: lt was to be sixteen members ]e,~.J [The PP.E:\IIER: It was to cut down members' salaries.]

The SPEAKJ;~R : Order !

:Mr. 'l'. B. CRTBB: The hon. member WP'l

not in the Cabinet aud does not know; he may have he"n busy intrL;ninf! wilh the Labour party ; hut I can assure him that the late Cabinet were in earnest. \Ve bo,d a Bill specially prepared-with the exception of the schedule. which was not quite decided upon-ard there w'" every determination on the part of the Govern­ment to bring tt at Bill before l'arliament. [Mr. KERI\: The late Home ,. ecretary was ag-ainst it.] It does not follow that bf" euse the Premier is not in earnPRt the late Cabinet was not in earnest. Tben l\ir. Denham goes Gn-~

'Vhc:n the House met last year 'vc were iu the g-1:ip of a. terrible drought, which continued till tlJc close of. lh,~t, ear. The drought wa~ so terrible and harussing that. tlw 1'rc:lst.ror cottld not bring in his Budget in the 11snal way. All tlle factors that go to mal\e up the Budget Sper r:h were dislocated.

Though Rince his appointu-wnt he ignores our b;~es through drought, etc., and viliHes the Gover-nment for .which formerly be had nothing but praise. If I were to say anything more about tho.t 1 might show that the present Trea­clluer, just after he assutned office, made_a s~.ate'­ntent~ thnugh not in the House, of this lnnd : " a.n1 sorry for tbe ] Rte rrrea,' nrer : he baR had all the ha.rd luek and drought, and everything e1 "8 hnt nnw there are good sert:~ons eoming on, fort~1nately for us, but such is the _fortune c!f wn,r. '' How the Minister for Agnonlture lS

going to reconc:ile the opinions which he held at different times and put before this Chamber with the platform of the present

[.ilk T. B. Oribb.

As for tlw Secretary for Land,;, all I can say is that on several occa,ions l~ttely he has seemed to Le extremely uncomfortable and '" if he did not altog.•ther like the company he was kPeping, and would be extremely glad if some "ltera• ion could be made by which he would become as,;ociated with a different set of men. [The S•:utmTARY FOB. .PUBLIC LAND~ : I can as:-:ure yon I am in most excellent cnmpany.J I wish no'' to say a few words in req-ard to tbt> appointn.cnt of J ones, with r·.Spcct tn whom the Secretary for Agricul· ture rnadP such a deplorably weak defence the other night. I cannot help thin king that this anpointn1ent is: the greatest lJOStiible blunder. Xo explanation has ht~en given as to how J ones c~rue to be appointed. \V e are told hy the Premier that the Government de .ermin d to send an agent to the East, and at the psychological moment Mr. Jones appe",red on the scene. He doet not know where he cmne from, or who se ut him. or bow he got to know that the Go,·ern­meat w.mted an ag-ent in the East. All be knows is tbat tTonss carne and wa.i-i appointed. I mn quite certain that had the Secretary for Agri­culture been de:.Jing with hi:--, 0\'\"Jl rn·ivate affa,irs he '''ould never have appointed Jones in any capacity whatever. I can only say that, if the ~ecretary for Agriculture if' the business 1nan he is said to be, he should be as careful about. making an appointment under Go\·ernrnent, a~ he would he if he were making the appointment for himself. I might, in 1ny own bu ,iness, say to a rnan of in­different chllracter, "I will give you a "how," and provide hitn with something to dtl; but I would not be justified in doing that when occupying a position of trust as a Minister of the Crown. I therefore think the Government are vel". much to bla.me, and that their offence cannor, be con­doned. \V e do not know what the rEsult of that a.ppointtnent 1nay be. If JYir. Jones ~ncur~ any liability while representing the State, the Government will be in honour bourul to pcty it .. The credit of tbe State will be at stake. IE the~· ,,end an accredited g··ntleman to the East to open up markets for them, they must be responsible for any debt he may incur on their behalf. Now, with re;:ard to the appoimmente to the U ppcr House. I do not want to say too much about them, but there is a great de".l that could be said. It has been the practic:u tc' appo~nt 1uen of high char._\c~er: who woul(l not pledge themselves one "'"'' or the other in the 1natter of politie,'", but in this cd.Se many of the appointments were of a di>tinctly !Joliticnl eharacter. I do not impute anything· at <tll, but I would like to ask, \Vhnt was the ]ustific<>don for appointing 1lr. J ensen? I k11ow thrtt he is a l putable rnanl but vvhat possible cla.!n1 can he have to the }._:.J:-iition? !_The Pl:\El\IIER: The claim of brain~.] I underetc.nd he he.ppens to be solicitor for the La.bour part:,~, and hence his appuinun1ent. The Prernier, in n1aking these ap1Jointments, has gone f:tr beyond the recog­nieed mnnlJl'f of whicl1 the Upper House should con.i~t, which is thirty-nine; und, in view of the proposed reduction in the number of mem­bers of the Assembly, I think the action of the

Address in RPpl;'f. [14 ,fUNE.J Papus. 387

:;-u\ ;rnwent \VD.~ ill+advi~E d. :\t) doubt the late Pruui!.'l' had in his H1ind w11ny uld coln1Ji~o:ts of hi~h t>Ltll\liH!.Z" \\ h~~nl he wonld he:tYe b•-:en glad t11

2 ... p1·oint to the (Tppi:'r l-Ionse, bnt Le refrained frmn doing :-<o on account of tbe propoRal to reduc• the wnubr~r ()f HJ(~n~l,er.-; lwre; ~,~.nd that, in ,-;pito of wllat the _pr.-tuier rely-;, i~:;, I think, .stron·~' elidt~ncd of the sinceritv of the }ate Go\·er:ament~ in the lnattet· of reducing the llUtunPr of HH:'rnhPrS in the .A~..,sen1biy. I wi~h to a few· word..:. now in reference to the action qf GovtTnrneut in increasing without an.f anthvt ity the fees charRea.ble on the t.ransfer of land, and O' h':'r land tntus...tctious rcc11rded in the l~ :.a1 Properl-y Office. It ruay be quite true th "'t :-he- f.-p<, elu!Jrged l1ere Wdee l~JwPr than thm;e charg-ed in ~ew Sqnth \Valt"; and ·victoria, but tb value qf lHOpet ty here is very n1uc 1 l!~!'H, and there are plenty nf trunB JCLion:-; in c~mnection ~ .. ·ith tbe owner:-:.hip of la~~i ia v ... hich the la11d ls l)f n) ·, ~1r1ue. Hut the G11vt~rnment have not di..;c..fin1in~tL·d in any \Vay, and have increa,ed the f8c'.' all ronnel. T certainly do not think thert~ wa~ any jnstific \tion for n1aking this extr -eOl\_linary cha,nge, -nd if t.hev d!:- .qred to lm1 dSI-;:> fres!1 taxation, they should have fir~t tuJ;:en the Hnn~e into their confidenct.'. It WJ..8

a comprtratively easy matter for the Tre·•· :-3Uter, when he made hiH ]'inaneial Staternent in October last, tl) say that tht• Gove-rnn1ent intended to do this: but no indic,":otion wa::; given to thP Hou~P. T \Vi~h to say a few words n•1w ahmt tbe Public ServicA Inquiry Board. The men1bPL' of rh at bo 1rd rnay be very cap 1ble men -I bel it' e they are. I berieve tlwy pr1ir! a great deal of attention to their work, though it does no~ ttppea,r so fron1 tht~ir report~ und possibly thev h<1Xe 1nade .ill honest report, according to their view;;:. But I (lo objec1; to the app<~int~ U1• nt of }-lr. Brennan, and am ratbPr sur­prisr·d ttl find In ~m with experience (Jf busi­nef'S--and particularly the St"'cretary for Agri­culture--puttins on thi•3 h)ar:J of inquiry a j1~nio_r in the: serv~ce to critici~e_ the actinns IJI his l"inpennrs. J. nEver heard nf fmch a thingo. ;:;ilppnse that; I t"ok ,~. Junior in our husine·,~. into rny contidence-, and asked hiu1 to cr1t,iclt->B the actions of hiR snp•'riort:-:, ::tnd to tell rne -..vhu·e he th~.mght :-:avings could be effected, '\Vdat wnulJ bt: th~·ught ()[ tne? \Voul.i the hon. gent.1 men opposite do tbat in thelr nwn bu~i­ne ;ses '! I am perfr>.ctly sure they would not. I 1Jo not think tb2 ap~:ointmf'nt of ~Ir. Br nnan was in any way jnstifitd. He may h.t\'e ab11ity. I believe lie i' spoken of as a very capable offiet•r; but he \Vas app1,jnted to sit in judgnJt•nton

i-,UpErior.->, and that p!ac. d him ill a L.he po:-)i-1 notict~that, wu_~rPver .1fr. Brenna.n·,narne

wa::; rn··ntioned-especiallv "\Vh~n anv reference \V:\R ll1_.de to hi.:-; re1at1onshl"p with the 'Tr·•ai:Hll'er-· ~Jw St·nil)r rnmnber for lioclth:1n1pton, J\1r. Gr.:1nt,

The bmL men1ber ft,r Hockkln,ptr•n :1 ~n tt deal to say alJont thF· public

hnd .c~ave u:-;to nnd·~rf<.:"".and dmt he kn,..\V it tha.n tnl . t hun. rnetnbers. anr1

'N•'lltler whether -it i."' \· eci't\1-"E'. of his with J\Ir. Bre-ntLHL Son1e uf the

rec·nnn1t ildatinr;s of tl, board a~'F' of the lfiPRt

Cl'Ht:J 2:httractPL ha::5 1J "11 1_J,,intP-d out hy thP bon. ml~mber fnr ong, s0:118 of thPm c1.nr.nt.

be effect. to. Tile Public Scn-ice expre:s ,Jy provides that the

nu officer ean be dec1·eased except fnt' 1--,t ~;lect ur incompetency; but that, if it. is

that he i~ duin·; vvork which i:-; not conm1ensurat~ \Vit.h hi::l sJJary, in~te1.d of belug reduced in ~a!ary, he shall be rerrWVt:d~ \V hen the off en·, to another pn:dt ion wher , he that salary \vith better

tlJ the S. at.e. The Gt)verniur-mt hfne given no of hnw 2nnch or otherwise of the recrnnn1enclation::; of the Lo;:~rd is gqing to be

actl 1 upon. There are some thingt' in the r8port which I wish to refet· to. bnt, as it is late, and l do not W1M1t to prevent hon. rnen1herH c J.tching­t.heir trai11H, I h -pe that the H(Jnse will .__,now rne to move the adjournrnent of th8 debate, and defer the re-mainder of nly rern:trk~ until a future occas;on. I have no wish to rmrrra~t the debate unduly, but it would be quite irnpoesible for me to say anything like all I de~ire to :::ay ~-t this hour of the evenin~. l \Vi .... h, however. to say a few v.ord; with rdPrence to the reprien; of th·' l\Iacdonalds. I cuntend that, if tht' GO\'erninent \Vi:-;hed to reprieve tho.-~e pt~nple, they our;ht to have br()ught in a B~ll r;u abolish capital puni."'hrnent. I hase bet-"n in a, similar position as a Cabinet Minir;ter, and on rnore tbaE one occagion I have had to ;.;ign n. 1uinute author­ising the death penalty, and I can uudr::::rst at1d the relnor .nee that the Ca!JinPt, or ar.ty 1nernber of the Cabinet, 1ni!~bt ha..vetod11jng the same thing. But here \V:u; a. rnurder which wa~ nor; unpre­n1nditated. It was a 1nurder which vval:l being cornrnitted every cla.y for rnonth~, anct nnder rnost di~gr;tceful circumstcnwe.-., and for the c~binet to revrie\'e the Slacdomdds will render it almost impo,;sible for the death penalty to be inflicted again in Queensland. 'fhere· fore I ''ay that, ii the Government wished to grant a. reprieve, tlwy oug-ht to have included in tlle-ii' I-Jrogramnie a Hill for the abolition of c:-:tpital punishment; and, if it waK too la.te to include it in !:heir programme, they have haJ an opportunity uf giving this House the reasonB for their actiou. I arn sorrr that the lender of the G·ovPrntnent has not actt--'.d up to the c n1stitutional practice that has hitherto prevailed-tllrtt, when a 1nnti, ~n of want of confidence iH 1noved, it is nsud for the Premier to rise and reply. The hon. gentlem~n has takfn the Press into his con· fidence ancl seated that he reg-ards it as a vote of want of confidence, hnt he has not had the courtesy to inform this House as to his inten­tion'. Wi'h your permission, ~1r. Speaker. I move that the debate be adjourned.

[11 p.m.]

tlnestinn put and paRsed ; and the l'esnnlption of the deb·cte made an Order of the Day for 'fues<hy next.

The House adjourned at two minutes past 11 o'clock.