Kenneth Salls - Talks with A.L.Staveley

8/12/2019 Kenneth Salls - Talks with A.L.Staveley

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INTRODUCTION TO PART ONE

The material presented here was not written down verbatim nor transcribed fromrecordings b!t recalled afterwards from memor"# The original intent of s!ch an e$ercisewas to f!el the wish to be present in the moment so as to ob%ectivel" as possibleremember what had been said#

It is not the intention of Part One to present a record of s!b%ective responses to what wasgiven as this varies from person to person and wo!ld add little to the reader&s!nderstanding#

The leader of the gro!p was Annie 'o! (tavele" )*+,-./,,*0 a p!pil of both 1ane 2eapand 3!rd%ieff himself# The gro!p was first sit!ated in Portland and later A!rora OR#

The transmitter of a teaching lends his or her own 4flavo!r5 to that teaching# Altho!gh afair percentage of the following material can be fo!nd elsewhere the conte$t andelaboration are often !ni6!e#

It is m" opinion that even 3!rd%ieff himself in his most pessimistic moments did notforesee the e$tent to which h!manit" wo!ld degenerate in the "ears after his death)*+7+0# The mirage of 4progress5 the dawning of a 4New Age5 and all the rest of it mas8the fact that the vast ma%orit" of the world does as it alwa"s has done9 finding newerwa"s to ind!lge in vanit" self love hate greed and st!pidit" in general# There is atendenc" to label a teaching as 4failed5 if the whole planet is not mirac!lo!sl"transformed within a short period after having been e$posed to it# One onl" has to loo8 at

The Christ&s teaching to see how readil" h!manit" incorporates higher 8nowledge intoever"da" life# (o it wo!ld be an error to %!dge an" given method b" e$ternal res!lts# The4world5 that m!st be changed is not one e$perienced b" the five senses#

Two essential aspects of the :or8 will not be described the ;ovements or (acredDances and (ittings# The reason that the former will be omitted is that the" can onl" bee$perienced b" act!all" doing them and the latter m!st be transmitted directl" fromteacher to p!pil#


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practice one e$ercise for at least a wee8 at a time is a wa" to 4digest5 this material#Otherwise it can lead to mental constipation and leave the reader with a false sense of8nowing something witho!t reall" !nderstanding it# A tool is onl" val!able if it is !sed#

,+>,7>?@ irst 3ro!p ;eeting

A'(9 This is a school of the o!rth :a"# (chools of this nat!re have e$isted since manco!ld thin8 tho!gh the" have alwa"s been s!spected b" the general p!blic#

New Bor8 stood on the bloc8 he tho!ght the 3!rd%ieff Instit!te might be located# inall"one night he saw a gro!p of people entering a doorwa" and followed them in# 2e ofco!rse was noticed as a stranger b!t was later assigned a class and %oined the :or8#There was a fellow who had read all the boo8s and wrote to the p!blishers the"forwarded the letters to the Instit!te and the Instit!te forwarded them to me# :e all cometo this :or8 wanting something more# Onl" b" wor8ing on "o!rselves can "o! ac6!irethat something#

Ever"thing man gains ever"thing he comes to 8now is alwa"s destro"ed b" war ordisaster or forgetf!lness# :hat ma" seem li8e 4peace5 one moment is an ill!sion beca!sewar brea8s o!t the ne$t# The world is a reflection of o!rselves and if we are at odds witho!rselves there will alwa"s be wars and violence#

# :ill this :or8 help m" children or can the" help me It sa"s on the cover of


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(ome of "o! ma" have been l!c8" eno!gh to have had them read to "o! as a child# Oneof the older gro!ps is now wor8ing on m"ths comparing them# The" have fo!nd that thestor" of creation of co!rse with minor differences is the same in all religions#

A'(9 Do we act!all" go to the s!n when we die

9 No# As we are we are food for the moon# :hat we are tr"ing to do in this :or8 isto be able to be food for the s!n# :e are not able to

9 I am worried that I ma" be too old to be in the :or8# I read somewhere that3!rd%ieff said "o! had to be "o!ng to be s!ccessf!l in the :or8#

A'(9 :hen we were visiting 3!rd%ieff in his apartment in Paris I was a member of1ane 2eap&s gro!p a p!pil bro!ght his parents to meet 3!rd%ieff# 3!rd%ieff was alwa"sver" 8ind and deferential to older persons# inall" the father got !p eno!gh co!rage toas8 3!rd%ieff whether he and his wife were too old to be in the :or8# 3!rd%ieff wassilent for a long time then he loo8ed !p and as8ed the man9 4Bo! able to get o!t of bedin morning 5 4Bes5# 4Then not too old for :or8G5 Bo!ng people often do not haveeno!gh life behind them and older people often do not have eno!gh time in theirever"da" life for the :or8 so it wor8s both wa"s# It is good to have "o!ng and old in thesame gro!p# One gro!p I have is all "o!nger people and the" have a diffic!lt time getting

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off the gro!nd beca!se the" all had similar e$periences and there wasn&t m!chdisagreement# Bo! need friction to get real disc!ssion going#

9 2ow can I !se ever"da" disappointments s!ffering to increase m" awareness

A'(9 A good 6!estion#

bod" let the 4I5 as it is now see the wa" "o! move or feel# Don&t become involved or"o! will cease observing# This will allow "o! to ac6!ire information that will be !sef!l to"o! in the f!t!re#

9 I fo!nd the comparison with a machine interesting# The heart a p!mpHHH#

A'(9 :e can be food for higher beings#

become food for worms compost# :e descend on the scale instead of rising# O!r goal isto go to the s!n not fig!rativel" b!t reall"# One thing "o! m!st alwa"s remember9 Neveraccept an"thing I sa" as tr!e "o! m!st prove it to "o!rselves#

Bo!r tas8 for ne$t wee8 will be to ta8e words that "o! !se fre6!entl" that "o! thin8 "o!8now the meaning of words li8e freedom tr!th %!stice and reall" thin8 abo!t them#:rite down what the" mean to "o!# Don&t write down what "o!&ve heard from other

people or learned in school b!t what might be their inner meaning# :e will disc!ss "o!rtho!ghts#

Bo! have probabl" come across the statement that this :or8 isn&t for ever"bod" andas8ed "o!rselves 4:h" is this so wh" can&t ever"bod" be helped 5 :ell if someonewo!ld go downstairs and let in the long line of people waiting at the doorHHH##

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9 Once we are in the :or8 are we still !nder the 'aw of Accident

A'(9 Bes and no# One of m" favo!rite analogies is that as we are we are li8e a canoe being propelled down a swift river# :e have no control and ma" be dashed !pon a roc8 atan" min!te# :e have no idea of what might happen ne$t# 'ater after m!ch wor8 "o!ma" ac6!ire a r!dder still later "o! ma" have "o!r own sails and be able to criss.crossthe river at will or even sail against the c!rrent# As we are we have no direction orindivid!al power# :e appear to be !nder the 'aw of Accident b!t this is beca!se of o!rignorance as we are we cannot see the meaning and the wh" of things#

As I said at the first meeting we are the onl" self.evolving creat!re on the Earth at thistime or rather we are the onl" creat!re to have the potential for self.evol!tion# Therehave been man" e$periments b" Nat!re to create a self.evolving species and !ntilh!mans came !pon the scene abo!t a million "ears ago all previo!s e$periments were

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fail!res# An e$ample of a failed e$periment is the insect world# Bo! ma" have wonderedat one time 4wh" insects 5 especiall" after having been bitten b" one# The" don&t reall"seem to fill m!ch of a need in the scheme of things# :ell it is beca!se the" were oncem!ch larger and when the" failed to develop properl" Nat!re red!ced them in si=e# Bo!see Nat!re never wastes an"thing onl" man wastes so rather than destro"ing them the"

were 8ept# Insects have an advanced intelligence of their own the" are highl" organisedand s!ccessf!l on a limited basis b!t the" nevertheless failed to self.evolve#1!stice is getting what "o! have wor8ed for# 3!rd%ieff said that all three centres m!stsweat# Nothing in the :or8 is reall" given it m!st be earned# (omeone who %!st sits bac8and waits for efforts to be made b" themselves will consider it !n%!st if another striveshard and achieves something b!t of co!rse that is %!stice#

9 :here does o!r wish to do something in the :or8 come from does it come fromall o!r centres

A'(9 A tr!e wish "es#


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thin8 to thin8 abstractl" to !se ideas to ma8e forms#

9 Is it !sef!l to tr" to stop the flow of associations b" co!nting e$ercises

A'(9 Bes it is a good e$ercise to !se vario!s methods to stave off !seless associations#Did "o! get the idea from Orage&s boo8

9 No I haven&t read it#

A'(9 :ell Orage gives several wa"s to do this li8e sa"ing K;ar" 2ad A 'ittle 'amb&while at the same time thin8ing K1ac8 And 1ill :ent Up The 2ill& or *.*,, /++ @.+ andso forth !ntil "o! meet in the middle and start bac8 to the beginning#

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A'(9 :ell get "o!rself another "oga boo8# Bo! see breathing is controlled b" themoving centre which doesn&t reall" 8now m!ch abo!t these matters "o! can !pset !pset

badl" "o!r entire organism# (o sta" awa" from these methods the" can onl" do "o!

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harm in the end# If "o! have read the (econd (eries "o! ma" remember E8im

:e have ver" few if an" real emotions# Once in a while we ma" feel tr!e grief tr!esorrow if someone close to !s dies#


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:e 4go aro!nd5 man" times both in circles and c"cles#

it in "o!r closet or bathroom medicine chest# This will change the flavo!r of "o!r life#:e are born L we die# Observe "o!r apprehension abo!t death# Death is nat!ral# Tr"ingto den" death is !nnat!ral#

:hen "o! are sic8 let "o!r bod" heal itself# It 8nows more than "o! do# Don&t tr" tothin8 abo!t how sic8 "o! are# Read a detective novel something to 8eep "o!r mind b!s"#

In st!d"ing the enneagram or an" of these ideas "o! m!st feel them# Don&t approachthem thro!gh "o!r intellect# eeling is important#

O!r emotions or what we have of them are li8e wild horses# Bo! can&t control them

"o! have to let them r!n their co!rse once the"&ve beg!n# The intellect!al centre is o!rwea8est centre that is wh" it is so eas" to control# The moving and emotional centres arefar more diffic!lt to control#

O!r three basic foods L air the tangible food we eat at meals and impressions# :e canlive a month witho!t eating five min!tes witho!t breathing b!t we wo!ld die in a secondwitho!t impressions# Impressions separate !s from other animals#

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A'(9 The 4so!l5 is onl" a germ a seed in !s as we are# Each of !s has a drop of4water5 in !s h!manit" is the ocean#

It is important to ma8e a list of "o!r first childhood memories tr" to remember what "o!remotions were what "o! tho!ght abo!t# Children ver" "o!ng children rarel" lie and caneven see the world as it is#

I remember when I was a small child crawling on the floor# It was cold and snow" o!tand a deliver" bo" came in. the first thing I saw was the white snow on his shin" blac8


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boots# I was so intrig!ed b" this that I crawled over and began lic8ing them. !ntil m"mother r!shed over and "an8ed me awa" !ne$pectedl"#

It is important that "o!ng men wor8 hard ph"sicall" and !se their energ" while the" haveit# One of the reasons for all the tro!ble we have in this co!ntr" with teenagers is that

the" rarel" wor8 hard an" more# And if "o! observe "o!rself while ph"sicall" wor8ing"o! store another 8ind of energ"#

:e are in a ver" sad state. we have no real faith hope or charit"# 3!rd%ieff sa"s that onl"one tr!e being imp!lse is left in !s and that is so encr!sted over b" personalit" that it hasgreat diffic!lt" in being heard over the din of desires wants and da" dreams. that isconscience# Not the 4learned5 conscience of o!r parents schools and ch!rches b!t thatvoice deep down inside !s which 8nows what it is we sho!ld do# :e m!st tr" to !ncoverthis facet of o!rselves before we can tr!l"


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Emotional temperat!re )4ic" detachment5 4hot !nder the collar50# Ps"chological weight )heav" dense or light air"0# Also notice how others manifest# One thing don&t label# Don&t tr" to define things or

ps"chologise abo!t them# 1!st observe and ta8e notes as tho!gh "o! were collecting

insects placing them in bottles !p on a shelf#

(omeda" after a good deal of wor8 "o!&ll be able to notice when anger or a strongdisli8e is coming down the road toward "o! and "o! will be able to direct it# Now tr" toobserve don&t tr" to 8eep it down# Tr" to ma8e an" strong emotion a signal that it is timeto observe# Feep in mind that to go on to more advanced wor8 "o! m!st 8now what "o!are wor8ing with9 "o!rselves# Bo! m!st get to the point where "o! are no.thing nothing#Onl" then does real wor8 begin#

9 :hat is the difference between a reaction and a response

A'(9 All that "o! do now is the res!lt of reactions ever"thing happens to "o!ever"thing is infl!enced from the o!tside# There is no real 4I5 %!st a collection of little4I&s5 who rarel" agree on an"thing and never sta" with "o! for more than a da" at a time#:hat we are aiming for in this :or8 is re.sponse.abilit" not reactions# To be able torespond and not a!tomaticall" react# 2ow can "o!r ship ever get an"where if there are ah!ndred captains who ta8e t!rns going where the" have a whim to go At best "o! wo!ldget somewhere p!rel" b" accident#

Air is the food of emotions# Bo! can do!ble the effect of an incoming impression if "o!are present when it arrives# This cannot be an aftertho!ght b!t m!st occ!rsim!ltaneo!sl"# :e live most of o!r lives either in the past or f!t!re so this rarel"happens b" itself !nless one is in new or threatening circ!mstances# (o while activel"observing o!rselves we start to change we increase o!r bod"&s abilit" to absorb 4higherh"drogens5# Alwa"s be aware of the 4role5 "o! are pla"ing and that it is a role# Insanit" is !s!all"ca!sed b" a person becoming so thoro!ghl" identified with one of his small 4I&s5 that hecan&t brea8 o!t of the established pattern or b" accidentall" glimpsing things as the"reall" are the world behind the fa ade# If s!ch a person is !nprepared for s!ch a glimpsehe can become totall" !nbalanced# ;an" persons in instit!tions have what is called anid e fi$e a fi$ed idea of one thing which ta8es !p their entire life# :e are sometimes notthat far from that state o!rselves#

9 Is conscience li8e the s!per.ego

A'(9 :hat do "o! mean 4b" s!per.ego5

9 Oh the id the ego the s!per.egoH#

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A'(9 :ell I haven&t 8ept !p on modern ps"cholog" b!t perhaps it might on somes!perficial level# In this wor8 we have a definite lang!age a lang!age "o! m!st all get to8now if "o! are to !nderstand each other# Otherwise there will onl" be conf!sion# It doeslittle good to attempt to compare how one idea in the :or8 is li8e some other idea inanother s"stem#

ph"sical s8ills as "o! can# Nowada"s people 8now less and less abo!t more and more#

Bo! 8now I still have m" mother&s piano and when I am d!sting it if I miss a spot I candistinctivel" hear her voice sa"ing 4Bo! missed that spot do it overG5

Tr" not to do as others aro!nd "o! do# This is an e$cellent method b" which "o! canobserve "o!rselves and the actions of other people# Remember 3!rd%ieff&s response to hisgrandmother&s death that little %ingle9 4'et her with the saints& repose Now that she&st!rned !p her toesH#5 That&s what he is sa"ing avoid doing the ro!tine the e$pected# Aswe are we are creat!res of o!r given sit!ation# Notice how even the weather infl!ences!s as tho!gh it rains or snows to spite !s# Tr" to brea8 the pattern of re.action# Dosomething the wa" "o! have never done it before br!shing "o!r teeth with "o!r left handif "o! !s!all" !se "o!r right hand# P!t a pebble in "o!r shoe# 3ive it a tr"#

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9 Are "o! one who 8nows

A'(9 Fnows what

9 Oh in the (earch 3!rd%ieff sa"s that a teacher m!st be above on a higher level#Are "o!

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A'(9 :ell )la!ghter0 3!rd%ieff alwa"s answered 6!estions of this nat!re b" sa"ing thatwe in the :or8 are all on different r!ngs of a ver" long ladder# A large octave of thescale# 1es!s Christ was a ;an N!mber ? and we can have no idea of 2im or how wewo!ld approach 2im# :hen "o! as8 a 6!estion of someone 4above 5 "o! and the" do not

8now the f!ll answer the" in t!rn as8 the person above them and so on !ntil it gets to3od and the answer ret!rns down the scale# Each of !s depends !pon the person aboveand below# I have no absol!te 8nowledge#

9 All we do is sit aro!nd and tal8 here there doesn&t seem to be an" emotion orcloseness# I feel hemmed in#

A'(9 :hat else can we do now There are other things we will do after "o! havelearned to observe "o!r selves long eno!gh so that something is cr"stallised in "o!# Rightnow we m!st plant these ideas and tal8ing abo!t them is the onl" wa" we can do that#

I seem to be doing most of the tal8ing don&t I Remember "o! are li8e do!gh )and do asin do.re.mi0 and these ideas are the "east#

9 2ow can I consider e$teriorl"

A'(9 As "o! are it is almost impossible to consider e$teriorl" beca!se ever" time "o!start to p!t "o!rself in another&s place a different 4I5 pops !p and promptl" decides toconsider interiorl"# 4:h" isn&t he pa"ing more attention to me (he reall" doesn&t loveme# It isn&t worth the effort5# Etc# :e alwa"s end !p right bac8 in o!rselves and ignorehow the other person ma" be feeling# Bo! see !ntil we 8now o!rselves better than we donow we can start o!t with the best intentions in the world and still end !p as we alwa"sdo . wanting the other person to conform to o!r e$pectations and becoming angr" whenthe" fail to do so# :e are alwa"s seeing how people sho!ld be and not how the" act!all"are#

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1ane 2eap told !s an anecdote abo!t 3!rd%ieff and three aristocratic R!ssian ladies whohad heard abo!t 3!rd%ieff and wishes to meet him# The" were allowed to come to dinnerone da" and even tho!gh the"&d been told that 3!rd%ieff was a son of a sheep herder the"were still willing to ris8 their social position# :ell when the" arrived the" fo!nd

3!rd%ieff sl!mped over his chair as if dr!n8 arms as8ew head on chest# As the eveningwore on the ladies became more and more ta8en abac8 3!rd%ieff !nb!ttoned the top b!ttons on his pants and win8ed at them# The ladies 8ept balancing as 1ane said theirtiaras atop their heads !ntil the" co!ld escape# Bo! see 3!rd%ieff never made it eas" if"o! felt some specific resistance he wo!ld ferret it o!t and ma8e things even harder for"o!#

3ood is that which ma8es "o! more conscio!s# Do not become disco!raged# I 8now it is diffic!lt to remember to remember b!t "o!have to be scientific abo!t it in the sense of impartiall" observing "o!rselves regard "o!r4I5 and the rest of "o! as living a tho!sand "ears apart#

9 :hat is t"pe 2ow man" t"pes are there Are the" all here

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A'(9 There are ?/ t"pes b!t we have a good selection here# T"pe is that 6!alit"connected with chief fa!lt that something in !s that tips the scales whenever "o! are in asit!ation that re6!ires a decision# It determines "o!r reaction# If "o! are la=" "o! do thething that re6!ires least energ" if aggressive "o! %!mp into conflict etc# Abo!t a "eard!ring l!nch on (!nda" :or8 Da" a folding table loaded with dishes collapsed with a

crash# I co!ld see most of those present and each reacted according to t"pe oneimmediatel" r!shed to pic8 !p the bro8en dishes one watched the table fall and smiledanother co!ldn&t fig!re o!t what had happened and so forth#

9 :hat is the correlation between astrolog" and the 3!rd%ieff s"stem

A'(9 I can&t help "o! m!ch on astrolog" "o!&ll have to find o!t abo!t that on "o!rown#

Tr" to 8eep in mind that at ever" moment ever" possible h!man emotion ever" possibleh!man sit!ation is happening on the s!rface of the planet# If "o! can remember thiswhen "o! enco!nter personal diffic!lties and remember how small "o! are in relation tothe whole of e$istence "o! ma" if onl" for a moment attain the proper perspective#

An" effort we ma8e helps !s even tho!gh we ma" not see it right awa"# Occasionall"when we least e$pect it we will see something in a different light# (o remember res!ltsare alwa"s proportional to efforts the larger the effort the greater the res!lts# Thereforedo not begr!dge modern life and its diffic!lties it s!pplies m!ch grist for the mill#

:e treat o!rselves li8e pampered pets# 2ave "o! noticed how ho!se pets stin8 if notwashed fre6!entl" :e ind!lge o!rselves far too m!ch# Conversel" we m!st not ab!seo!r bodies drin8 too m!ch eat in e$cess get too little sleep#

:hen we observe we often fail to see what is right in front of o!r noses and this ma"lead to depression to a sense of not getting an"where# The people in the oldest gro!phave neglected self.observation and have to go bac8 to s6!are one and begin all overagain# Bo! can never neglect this# It is a constant and contin!ing process the 8e" to thewhole s"stem not something "o! do for a while and then 4go to higher things5# This ma"

be wh" we don&t see the wood for the trees#


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:e don&t reall" 8now wh" we are here do we Animals 48now5 plants do not have to betold#

4:omen are h"sterical five da"s a wee8 men onl" three5#4Toda" people not mere ps"chopaths b!t ps"chopaths s6!ared5# 3!rd%ieff#

2ave "o! noticed how we tolerate actions on the part of o!r grandparents that wo!ldappal !s if o!r parents did them :h" is that

Each person needs something from the wor8 which is not e$actl" li8e an" other person&sneeds# Now we have to wor8 together on the same things no matter how d!ll this ma"seem# At a later date we can wor8 on an individ!al basis#

:hen "o! find "o!rself angr" !pset whatever stop retain the e$pression on "o!r faceand loo8 into the mirror %!st for a second# (ee what "o! loo8 li8e to others# :e !s!all"

begin acting as soon as we get in front of the mirror or camera and onl" see o!r mostappealing e$pressions#

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A'(9 :e thin8 3od reall" cares whether we believe in 2im or not# It wo!ld be similarto o!r caring whether one of the billions of cells in o!r bod" believed we e$isted or not#

3od is the


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ago we began to rapidl" decline# Toda" people avoid doing the simplest things with theirminds# I have act!all" seen a person write down *, Q *, /,# The h!man mind iss!perior to an" personal comp!ter# I recall when England still had the po!nds shillingsand pence s"stem */ pence to a shilling /, shillings to a po!nd# People easil" fig!redo!t costs in an" combination with their minds# :hen "o! have to do something it

becomes eas"# Now the" let children !se calc!lators in school# No effort# Bo! can tell"o!r mind e$actl" when "o! want to wa8e !p in the morning and it will# 3ive it a tr"# Tr"to g!ess the time when "o! have been awa" from a cloc8 or the temperat!re# Bo! cangenerall" come within two or three min!tes or degrees#

Impressions fall on !s in wrong centres# Notice s!dden feelings that come o!t of the bl!eof sadness or elation# This is the res!lt of associative flow# Each centre !ses a differentgrade of f!el and cannot operate properl" on the f!el of another centre#

An owl is a two brained being and lives in two worlds earth and air# :e are three brainedand can live in the air on earth or in water# Americans are a mongrel race# :e are often

in conflict with o!r heredit" the average person is l!c8" to 8now who their grandfatherwas or what he did# In most co!ntries people 8now abo!t their ancestors the" have asense of contin!it" and place# Tr" to find o!t as m!ch as "o! can abo!t "o!r famil" as far

bac8 as "o! can to see if there an" patterns#

Ever"one completel" mis!nderstands ever"one else# :e each have totall" differentmeanings for the same shared words# That is wh" we m!st learn to !se a :or8vocab!lar" so that we 8now what is act!all" being said#

9 Can people who practice martial arts develop a permanent 4I5

A'(9 No not as s!ch# 1!do 8arate and so forth were once part of real schools nowthe" are separated and mostl" !sed onl" to train the moving centre to enable "o! to8noc8 one&s enem" on the head the" are too concerned with res!lts#

9 I notice that when I&m aro!nd machines in a factor" I&m ver" nervo!s# Do wehave an instinctive fear of machines

A'(9 :e sho!ld haveG

9 I have noticed that a certain sense of !rgenc" a feeling that there isn&t eno!ghtime that it is r!nning faster and faster#

A'(9 Bes things do seem to go in and o!t of st"le m!ch more rapidl" than the" did before and "et ever"thing remains the same#

9 :hat is attention

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A'(9 I co!ld give "o! several definitions of attention b!t all "o! wo!ld do wo!ld be to place them in a noteboo8 and thin8 that "o! !nderstood what attention is and promptl"forget abo!t it# Bo! m!st find o!t for "o!rself#

Even tho!gh 3!rd%ieff lambastes !s in 4


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It has gotten to the point where I wo!ld be most hesitant to go into a hospital so man"machines are ta8ing over the d!ties of people that it is frightening#

I watched )e$0 Sice.president Agnew&s farewell speech on television last night and thecommentator&s remar8s afterwards# It was simpl" ama=ing to hear the difference between

what Agnew said and what the commentator heard# The" were almost e$actl" opposite inmeaning#

After the end of :: II what did people do to celebrate The" got dr!n8 Isn&t that astrange wa" to celebrate the end of s!ch vast destr!ction

Each person as8s a 6!estion for ever"one in the gro!p# As8 what "o! want to 8nowothers want to 8now the same thing b!t do not as8# Remember it is in me and "o! haveto drag it o!t ver" little is given#

*,>/,>?@

Conversation after two pla"s p!t on b" gro!p members9

A'(9 The pla"s of (ha8espeare contain far too m!ch material to be written b" one man#(ha8espeare was a member of a gro!p and the pla"s were presented !nder his name#Even tho!gh the mode of e$pression in (ha8espeare&s wor8 is o!t.dated the pla"s stillhave a great deal of val!able material in them#

It is good to attend real pla"s not the hodge.podge of pla"s "o! can c!rrentl" find onesthat don&t merel" pander to fads or trivial emotions#

:hen acting in a pla" "o! sho!ld pretend to be someone else b!t act!all" tr" to be that person it helps "o! see how others feel and thin8#

The abilit" to la!gh at "o!r own fantasies is a good start on the wa" to destro"ing them#

*,>/@>?@

42appiness as a p!rs!it is worth" onl" of a pig5# Albert Einstein#

A'(9 It is most !nfort!nate that o!r fo!nding fathers incl!ded s!ch a basicall" sill"idea as the 4p!rs!it of happiness5 in the Declaration of Independence# If "o! reall" thin8abo!t it 4happiness5 is s!ch a trivial thing to p!rs!e#

:e can register impressions from the s!n the stars and the (!n

*


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*+


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10-23-73Absolute, but not in our present state. As we are, impressions fall on the wrong centers, helter-skelter. Our fantasies get in the way of the proper use of impressions.

ntrospection is useless because we ha!e !ery little to "look into#. $ust obser!e yoursel!es,%on&t try to analy'e - that will come after you ha!e store% a great %eal of %ata.

(o not shy away from people who cause you friction. )hey can be !ery helpful in allowingyouto see what you fin% %istasteful in yoursel!es, although people whoare always %epresse%, always negati!e, shoul% be a!oi%e% because their negati!itycan be contagious. t *umps like an electrical spark between people. )hat was partof +itler&s power, his ability to share his intense negati!ity with his au%ience.(on&t be afrai% to speak your min%, or offen% someone. f they want to be offen%e%, let them.

e are like earthworms, one centere%, groping towar% what we like an% a!oi%ingwhat we %on&t like, always fearful of suffering an% making a real effort.)ry to ha!e intentional thoughts, they %on&t ha!e to be "big# thoughts, *ust e!ery%ay, simplethings, but you initiate them without ha!ing to ha!e an e ternal situation forcing them on you.

hen you learn a skill you will notice that it becomes easier an% easier, that ismerely because it is becoming mechanical. ou must obser!e yourself to a!oi% this.

e shoul%n&t try to stop emotional reactions but we shoul%n&t mull them o!er an%o!er in our min%s. )hat unnaturally prolongs them. /earn to become in%ifferent to themrather than letting them take o!er your entire being.

As you get along in the ork, assuming you stick with it, think you will fin% thatyou will feel a strong sense of closeness with other members in the group. ot asocial type of feeling, but something that transcen%s e!ery%ay concerns. remembera story $ane +eap tol% us about one of the members who ha% stu%ie% with ur%*ieffin aris. A proper young man ha% returne% to his home town in nglan% an% wasout walking with the !illage !icar. As they were walking the young man happene%to notice a girl who was walking with her parents. +e ha% met her in aris an% shetoo was in a ur%*ieff group. )he young man broke away, rushe% up to her, they embrace%,e change% greetings an% promise% to meet in aris. hen the young

man returne% to the !icar&s si%e, the !icar aske% whether the girl was his fianc4e.+e sai% " o, she wasn&t#. )he !icar aske% if they were relate%, " o# again. ell,what was her name, he %i%n&t know. u''le%, the !icar aske% where he ha% met her,well, in aris55.. )o%ay this story %oesn&t ha!e much impact as mores ha!echange% so much in the past fifty years, but you get the i%ea.

e are half asleep when we are "awake# an% half awake when we are asleep. f youe ercise all three centers %uring the %ay, %o physical labor an% conscious thought, then youwill sleep soun%ly, without %reaming, at night. (reaming is a pro%uct of left o!er energywe fail to fully use %uring the %ay which must be release%, so we fantasi'e, ho!er between

true rest an% waking.

1


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t is a mistake to think we shoul% look at things with %etachment, that closes off a placewithin you. e shoul% !iew things with impartiality, without i%entifying, without

becoming caught up in them. )his woul% be like looking out of a win%ow an% becominglost in the rain, rather than seeing the win%ow, the rain an% oursel!es looking at them.

hen we e perience a negati!e emotion or state because of another&s attitu%e, it is a current

passing between us, a contact is ma%e because we ha!e a place in us for that attitu%e toroost. f you %o not ha!e that correspon%ing place, no contact will be ma%e an% you willremain unaffecte%. (on&t try to work against these feelings in you, try to buil% up otherfeelings to replace them. /ittle can be gaine% by working against something, working forsomething is much better.

6 ea%ings %uring this perio% were from Orage&s sychological ercises 8 enerally a tenminute rea%ing at the start of the meeting.

10-30-73A/9. :n%erstan%ing is imme%iate an% non-!erbal. nformation an% knowle%ge isretrospecti!e an% !erbal.

ou can always tell when fantasy has taken the place of actual effort, when the e ercise ortask you are %oing becomes easier instea% of har%er. )he thinking center has to be pushe%or it lapses into imagining that it is working.

hen typing or %oing anything with your mo!ing center that re;uires no thought, %on&t letthe thinking center sit i%ly by, %o math problems, learn wor%s of another language, learn to%o more than one thing at a time.

am an% work until 3am the ne t morning. )he min% itself nee%s no sleep,only the bo%y, though the bo%y is often a%roit at persua%ing the min% that it nee%s sleepalso. )he energy that is nee%e% for mental e ercises isscarce as we are now? it is a higher energy that we usually %o not use. e are working"against nature# in this respect.

Our emotional center can&t count. )he mental center can. )he mo!ing center can watch.

)ake 1> minutes from your bo%y, your e!ery%ay life, in the morning when you get up.9pen% this time wishing, true wishing with all three centers, buil%ing up the will power totry to remember yoursel!es. 9pen% this time ;uietly looking out of a win%ow, not%ay%reaming, but really thinking about why you are in the ork, what it means to you. eta "hair shirt#, wear shoes that are a little too small or too large. f you ha!e a corn use it asa remin%ing %e!ice. othing comes easily in this work, you ha!e to force your la'y sel!es.

our ol% habits which ha!e been built up an% control you are not only from this life butfrom all your past li!es, they must be taught to take secon% place to your wish, your wish to

@e.

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t is a great trage%y that the )ibetans who ha!e come to this country after their country was%estroye% by the hinese are almost completely unable to pass on the great knowle%ge

because so few people are e!en close to their le!el of un%erstan%ing. 9ome of the ur%*ieff people %o ha!e contact with them an% perhaps not all the )ibetan wis%om will be lost.

11-0B-736 ea%ing of A nostic +ymn from


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E. ill you e!er gi!e us %irect answers to our ;uestionsF

A/9. 9ometimes will gi!e you a !ery %irect answerG @ut to stimulate you to think aboutthese i%eas so that they are really part of you, are really your own, you ha!e to fin% out theanswers insi%e of yoursel!es, otherwise, what goo% woul% an "answer# beF t woul% be

like glimpsing into "higher# realities with %rugs, or like looking o!er someone&s shoul%er%uring a test. es, you get the answer, but it is not from your own un%erstan%ing an% istherefore lost an% can&t be use%. t is easy to sit an% listen to someone else&s answer to a;uestion, then tuck it in your book of answers an% forget about it. )hat&s what they %o ine!ery%ay schools an% that is why most people %on&t really learn anything.

ou must steal time from your e!ery%ay life for the ork. f you %on&t you can&t e pectanything to change. ou ha!e to %e!ote all your energies to what you are %oing at anygi!en moment. f you are at your *ob, then all of your energy must be %irecte% towar%s that.

f you are at home %oing something, then all of you shoul% be engage% in that. ou see,when you come to a cross roa%s an% %eci%e to go north, go north with your whole being, allof you, %on&t go north with 2>H, south with >0H an% west with the other 2>H.

E. rea% in the 9earch that only people who are "normal# se ually can make it in the ork,what e actly is "normal#F

A/9. ell, know the passage an% this is one of the few places in the book whereOuspensky inserts his own opinion. ur%*ieff ne!er sai% that. !en though Ouspensky %i%lapse in this case, we shoul% be grateful to him for writing this account because ur%*ieffne!er taught that way again, after he left ussia an% the material woul% ha!e been lostfore!er. :nfortunately Ouspensky latche% onto it as an unchanging gospel an% coul%n&t seethat one must a%apt the teaching to the circumstances, to the people being taught. )he sean% instincti!e centers of the lower story, as we are, push the other brains aroun%, they areall mi e% up. )he se center 6it is not a brainC supplies energy for the continuation of therace. /ater on, when we sort out the proper functions of the three brains, you may be ableto make use of the higher energies of the se center. ow, %on&t concern yoursel!es withthis matter.

6 eferring to how a sore toe or tooth can totally take o!er our consciousnessCD


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teachers in our lifetimes. n%i!i%uals on their own can only get *ust so far. )hey are likecan%les without someone to light them. )hey are able to ascen% %o-re-me but nee% ateacher to *ump the gap at fa.)o be tense or keye%-up is the wrong approach. @eing rela e%, at ease is much better.

otice a cat poure% out in the sunlight, totally rela e%, yet a bir% can lan%

an% the cat is imme%iately alert, rea%y to pounce. )o be rea%y for any situation you must berela e%.

n the Orage e ercise ga!e you last week what %i% you trace your obser!ations back toF)he i%ea. !erything initially starts as an i%ea. )ry to get beyon% the material si%e of athing an% %iscern its i%ea, its why, its function.

Lrishnamurti is an e ample of a man who became a without ha!ing been a


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6 roup %inner at


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@eing e actly on time, being punctual, may seem like a small thing, but it is important.ur%*ieff woul% be walking out the %oor if someone was twenty secon%s late for an

appointment. )here was a woman in the ew ork group who complaine% to /or%entlan% that she ne!er coul% get to the meetings on time. +e sai%D " ell, that is !ery

simple. $ust come a half hour earlyG# ou rob others by being late.

)here was a young nglish woman who !isite% ur%*ieff, this was after the war, who wasstill in the starry eye% stage. t was %ifficult not to be starry eye% aroun% him. 9he arri!e%early one %ay an% foun% him cooking a large pot of soup in the kitchen. (espite all of hisresponsibilities he foun% time to %o a goo% %eal of the cooking. 9he *ust stoo% there, agape,staring at him. +e turne%, smile% at her, took a spoonful of the boiling soup an% offere% itto her. 9he opene% her mouth an% procee%e% to swallow the scal%ing hot li;ui% an% burnther mouth. ou see, you are e pecte% to be practical, to always keep your wits about you,to be alert an% not asleep. 9he learne% the lesson the har% way. ou ha% to be constantlyon your toes in his presence, he coul% play many roles, he coul% be anyone he please% to be.One moment he coul% play the role of a young girl with the gestures, the !oice so perfectyou woul% belie!e that he was a young girl. )he ne t moment he coul% be a %o%%ering ol%fool, the ne t a great sage an% we were always alert for the sage, because he woul% slylyslip something in that was important for us to know. f you were %ay %reaming you mightmiss it an% he might not repeat it. 9omeone who %i% not know ur%*ieff !ery wellcommente% that he kept his stu%ents in a constant state of fear. ot at all, we were *ustafrai% of missing something that might pro!e to be in!aluable.

E. hy %i% ur%*ieff speak so strangelyFell, for one thing, he always %i% his best to make you work, he ne!er ma%e anything easy

an% if it seeme% easy, or if he seeme% to go out of his way to make itsimple for you, it was so that he coul% later turn aroun% an% make it twice as %ifficult. @uthis wor%s kept coming back to you. f he spoke so that you coul% easily un%erstan% whathe sai%, you woul%n&t mull o!er what you ha% hear%. +e woul% often tell a person to lea!ethe ork so that the person coul% gain a perspecti!e an% figure out things before going on.

ur%*ieff coul% also be intensely boring. +e coul% %rone on an% on an% su%%enly say !eryclearly, when he notice% those present ha% cease% listening an% were getting nothing out ofwhat he was sayingD " ou know, here in the est hospitality !ery strange, guests ne!erknow when to lea!e, they *ust stay on an% on5#


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been in @ennett&s school an% *ust by stu%ying his posture you coul% see that he washopelessly mi e% up, he ha% gotten too much too soon an% ha% not %e!elope% in a balance%way. )his is one reason why you shoul% not rea% a book which is coming out this month,"Kiews =rom the eal orl%#. t contains a great %eal of !ery !aluable material, but it isreally inten%e% to be rea% alou% in groups, not by in%i!i%uals. ou can purchase it if you

*ust ha!e to ha!e it, but %on&t rea% it. ell, maybe once a year as a treat. @ut if you %o,remember that most of the material was inten%e% for a%!ance% pupils, people who ha%alrea%y attaine% something, who ha% earne% the answers. Once again this is an e ample ofgetting something for nothing. )his applies to the 9acre% for arecor%ing 6recor%s at this time cost >C it remin%s you that it is special, that you shoul%n&ttreat it like all your other recor%s an% *ust play it as "easy listening# music.

Only @eel'ebub was inten%e% to be rea%, at first, by yourself alone.


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e istence, stay awhile an% then crumble back to %ust. @ut the i%ea is always there, it e istsfore!er, the forms may change, but the concept behin% them remains.

ur%*ieff&s relati!es ha!e been no help at all regar%ing the ork. )hey are always bringinglaw suits an% trying to grab all the money they can from his work. es, se!eral of his

chil%ren are in the ork, but you must remember that chil%ren inherit their parent&s bo%ies,not their min%s or i%eas. f that were the case humanity woul% ha!e e!ol!e% aeons ago.$ust before he %ie% ur%*ieff sai%D " e t twenty years most important perio% of my life.#

ou see, we all thought that the ork ha% come to an en% with ur%*ieff&s %eath, that theork was ur%*ieff. @ut something ;uite une pecte% happene%, the see%s he plante% took

root an% starte% growing. )here are real ur%*ieff groups all aroun% the worl%. )he pseu%ogroups ser!e a purpose though, they help wee% out those who aren&t really suite% for the

ork, who are satisfie% with the form. 9ome%ay, *ust like hristianity, ur%*ieff&steaching will be ma%e into a religion an% the real teaching will go un%ergroun%. e ha!eto repay all that we get from the ork. 9ome, who ha!e it, can pay in money 6notice howmoney, the "bloo%# of society seems to flow to all the wrong placesFC, some pay by passingon what they ha!e learne%, but we all must pay by working on oursel!es. An% if you think

ha!e groups solely for your benefit you&% be ba%ly mistaken. e all are ur%*ieff&schil%ren an% gran%chil%ren, chil%ren of his min%.

E. +ow long %oes it take to %e!elopFA/9. $ane +eap, think, %e!elope% as ;uickly as anyone in the ork. t took her 1>-20years. 9o %on&t start looking ahea% *ust yet for imme%iate results. Leep your attention onthe here an% now an% %on&t start counting your chickens.

+a!e any of you notice% the ;ueer feeling pro%uce% by a full moon, an% how your energyle!els are affecte%F ur%*ieff calls the moon a huge electro-magnet. +ow %o you sense itinfluences youF usually keep my win%ows open, but when there&s a full moon %raw thecurtains, somehow the moon light has a negati!e feel to it. urrently there are !erynegati!e !ibrations in the atmosphere all aroun% the arth. @ut you can use these !ibrationsintentionally an% not allow them to take hol% of you. e are M0H water an% the moon an%

planets push us aroun% as they %o the oceans. )he 9un create% us, the ancients knew thisan% %i% not worship the 9un because of some simple-min%e% reason such as it was big an%

bright, but because it literally is true.

9unlight, water an% air. )hat is where our foo% comes from. otice how people eat, theygobble it %own without any thought. here %i% it come from, who grew it, what ha% to %ie

so they can eatF )ry to be aware of these things when you eat, try to see the connections.)hen foo% will ha!e chance of becoming "higher foo%# an% of being transmute%.

E. hat can we %o to help stop warF

A/9. e are all "%oing# our small share to stop war an% !iolence by our efforts in theork. f we can change oursel!es then there is a chance. eople are always wanting to

change others without themsel!es changing. Always wanting to "con!ert# others an% makethem change. n times of great tension the ork seems to surface to try to pre!ent greatknowle%ge from total %estruction. @ut the poor )ibetans, feel especially sa% for them,ha!ing to li!e amongst us barbarians, no one can un%erstan% their immense learning. )hey

must feel as though they are pregnant an% unable to gi!e birth.

1


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)he !olume of a room is !ery important as to how it affects the moo%s an% psyche of anin%i!i%ual. :p until about thirty years ago people still knew how to construct at leastli!eable homes, now they are throwing up these match bo es, she%s. ou feel now asthough you were in a coffin. e will gla%ly limit our li!es *ust to "sa!e# money on theimportant things, but throw it away on the tri!ial.

)he instincti!e center "sees# things as pictures, as %o animals 6points to catC? he sees hisworl% that way. Our thinking center works, for the most part, !erbally.


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ou can only un%erstan% the laws of the :ni!erse through the emotional center.

Once


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onsciousness is seeing all at once 6with three centersC.

our eyes are *ust lenses, in actual fact you see through the top of your hea%.

o out an% buy a goo% anatomy book, learn about your bo%ies, where things are an% what

they %o. e are like someone who owns a mansion but who has ne!er left his be%room.

ou hear right behin% your eyes, in the bone there.

erciseD /ike what "it# %oes not like.

+igher centersD


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consciousness. A great many contemporary parents are afrai% of their chil%ren. Afrai%their chil%ren will %islike them if they make them %o anything they %on&t want to %o. ewill all pay for this later when we ha!e a nation of criminals an% malcontents.

E. )ime seems to be actually mo!ing faster an% faster, is it that &m *ust getting ol%er or is it

spee%ing upF

A/9. @oth. ature is win%ing up the clocks within us. On our le!el ature nee%s certain!ibrations to be at a higher rate, so things happen more ;uickly now. @eel'ebub, in thechapter on time, says that time is the :ni;ue 9ub*ecti!e phenomenon. e are e periencinglife at a faster pace. hat ature can&t get at one pace, she gets at another. All of creationis in tra!ail o!er the state of man, we are swimming aroun% in circles while the rest of the

arth&s species wait for us.

hen first met my husban% to be be knew at once that he was the man was going tomarry. /ater on imagine% that it was because was in lo!e with him.

E. (o you know your past li!esF

A/9. hen came from /on%on, after li!ing there for 2> years, to be with my parents intheir last illness, %eci%e% might as well stay in America because was an American.After my parents %ie% mo!e% %own to ortlan% to fin% a *ob an% then, a house. hen was looking for a house happene% to pass one an% knew that was the one, an% sureenough, it was for sale. )he mo!ers aske% meD "+ey, la%y, you li!e here beforeF# because knew e actly where e!erything fit.

(e!eloping a real " # is like sil!er plating a spoon. One crystal at a time an% it takesthousan%s an% thousan%s of crystals to finally complete the process.

Anything we consciously learn in this life is retaine%. Anything mechanically learne% is lostfore!er. Artists can crystalli'e something in themsel!es through suffering an% great effort,

but this is usually in one center, such as


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animals in the original, an o an% an ass 8 two animals that work without rewar%, withoutse , without complaint. n the early hristian art, when the artists still ha% some i%easabout what the story meant, until aroun% 1,200 A(, they inclu%e% only these animals, nowyou see an entire 'oo. hat %o the three wise men representF )hey represent the highercenters coming to be born to a new " #.

t is no acci%ent that all religions ha!e holi%ays at the inter 9olstice, the %arkest time ofthe year, when the new year is born, it is also when things are the most negati!e,%epressing, a time to make a conscious effort.

ou know a


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/or% entlan% was out walking once in 9cotlan% an% came to this steep hill, on top was astone cottage. )here were three paths win%ing up the hill, each e!entually reache% the top

but took a %ifferent route an% much effort, but only one path coul% be taken at one time.

12-2J-73

6 hristmas !e with

Documents

Kenneth Salls - Talks with A.L.Staveley