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Indian Round Table Conference
(SECOND SESSION )
7t4 September, 1931--1st December, 1931
PROCEEDINGS
PLENARY SESSIONS OF THE
Presented by ihe Secretary of State for India to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
January, 1932.
CALCUTTA : QOVERNMENT OF INDIA CENTRAL PUBLICATION BRANCH
1932
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Go$@nment of India Publicatieiw as? obtsinable fram tbe Government 01 India Central Pub] cation Branch, 3, Government Place, West, Calcutta, and from the following Agents :-
EUROPE. OBEIOZ 0% ZEE HIQH COXhIISSIONEB FOR INDIA.
INDIA HOUSE, ALDWPOU, LONDON. W. 0. 4.
And at all Booksellem.
INDIA AND CEYLON:: Provincial Book Depbts. HADSAS: -Superintendent Qovernment Press, Mount Road, !&adras. BOYIBAY :-Superkitenden{, Qovernmenr, Printing and St%tlonery, Queen's Road, Bombay. SIND :-LIbrarp attached to the Office of the Cornmifaloner In Wnd, Karachi. B E N Q A L : - & ~ ~ ~ ~ Secretariat Book Depot; Writers' Bulldlnga, Room No. 1. around Floor, Calcutta. C H ~ D PBOVINCEB OF A Q R ~ A N D OUDR :-Superintendent of Qovernment Press, United Provinces of Agra and Oudh, Allahabat PUNJAB, :-Superfntendent, Uovernment Priuting, Punjab, Lahore. BURXA .-Supefintendent Government Printing Burma Rangoon. CENTRAL PBOVINORB AND'BBBAB --soperinten e'nt Qovehment Printing, Central Provinces, Nagpur. A88AK :-superintendent, Awam iecreteriat As, bhillong,w BXHAR AAD ORIssA :-Superintendent Qovernment Printlnq Blhar and dri~sa Y. 0. Qulearbagh, Patha. NOBTE-WEST FROHTIER PROVIA(II :-kauager, Governmen; Prlnttng and Stationery, Peshanar.
Thscker Spink & Co., Ltd., Cdcutta and Simla. W. Hewman & Co., Lttd., Calcutta. 8 K LahW & Co Calcutta. lsbe 'Indian Schooi' Supply Depat, SOB, Bow Bazar Strect,
Butterworth & Co. (India), Ltd., Calcutta. U. C. b r m r & Sone, 15, C-e Spume, Calcutta. Etsndard Literatnre Company, Limlted, Calcutta. Amociatlon Press, Celautts. Chukervertty, Chatterjee & Co., Ltd., 13, College Square,
Calcutta.
Calcutta.
Yeteorologlcal Publications only:)
The Book Company Calcutta. James Murray & Co:, 12, Qovernment Place, Calcutta. (For
Bay Chaudhnry & Co.,68*5 Ashntosh YnkberJl Road, Calcutta. Scientific PublIshlng Co., 9,' Taltolp Lane, Calcutta. Chatterjee & Co S-1 Racharam Chatterjee Lane Calcutta. Standard Law Sook 'Society, 8-2, Eastings Stre& Calcutta. The Htndu Lfbrary, 3, Nandalal lullick Lane bicutta. Kamala Book Depot, Ltd., 16, College Squaie, Calcutta. *Bengal Flying Club, Dum Dum Cantt. Xali Charan & Co., Yunicipal Xarket, Calcutta. N M Roy Chowdhury & Co 11 College Sqr Calcutta. B: C.' Baeak, Eaq., Proprie&, Albert Libra&, Dacca. H Inbothems. Madras. &%owe & Eione, ~adras. Q. A. Nateson & Co., Publishers, George Town, Undras. P Varadachfuy & Co Madras. City Book Co., Wad&: Law Publishing Co Mylapore. Nadras. The Booklover's Rbozt, Talkad, Trlvandrum, South IndIs. E I. Qopalakrishna Kone Pudumandapam, Nadura. &&ml Book Dep8t, Yadur;. Vijapnr & Co V h g a atam Whraker & d, Ltd., SomGy. D B Tar8 vahSona&Co Bombay &m*ChaneQovlnd & Sons" Ealbade'Pi Road Bombay. N. U. Tripathi & Go., Bookshm, Princess Stieet, Ealbndevl
New a i d Secondhand Bookshop, Kalbadevi Road, Bombay. J. 1. Pandla & Co., Bombay. A. 3%. Wheeler & Co AII8bbad Calcu& and Bombay. Bombay Book Depot" Qlrgaon, 6ombay. Bennett, Coleman h' Co., Ltd., The Tlmeci of Indla Press,
The Popular Book Dep6t Bombay. The Manager, Oriental BCok Supplying Agcncy, 16, Shukrawar,
BM. Kdshna Bm., Oppwite Vlshrambag, Poona City. S P. Bookstdl 21, Buduwar Poona. drngbldaa & hons, Bookadera and Publishera, Bhaga Taloo,
The Standard Book and 9tstlonery Go., 92-33, Arbsb Road,
rhe Students' Own Book Depdt Dh8rw:tr. Sbrl SharlLsr Karnatak% P&taka Dhandara. Mhlnlamnddl.
*L
Emd Bombay.
Bombay.
Poona city.
Burnt. Peshawar.
~- Dharwar.
Fxwalpiodi. lphe Standard Bookatail, Karachi, Quettr, Delbl, Mutrse and
Frontier 1:ook & Stationery Co., Rawa!pfndt. *Hossenbhoy Karimji & Sons, Earacht. The Engljsh Boobtalt* Karachi. Rnee R 00.. Karachi. The &n&id Bookstall Qaetta U. P. Malhotra & Co.,'Quetta: J. Ray & Sons, 43, E. Q I,.. Edw'ardes Road, Rawal~!ndi. %urn
and Lahore. The StasFrd Book Depot, Lahore, Nainital, Xuaoort
Dalhousie, Arnbala Cantonmmt and Delbl. The North Indla Christian Tract and Book Society, 18, Cllr
Road Allahabsd. %am Nkraln ?el, Katra, Allahabad.
The Lender Allahabad She Indlan Ar&y Book &pat. Dayalbagh, Agra. The EngUsh Book Depat Taj Road, 4gra. Gayn Prasad & Sons Ada. Naratn & Co let& Road Cawnpore. The Indian A;my Book Dep& Jullundur Mty, Daryagso), DeU lanager Newel Kishore Press Lucknow. The Upier rnrlia Publishing douse Ltd., Llterature Pam
Rai Sahib M. Gulab'SIngh & Sons, Mufld-I-Am Pre38, 1,rha
&ma Krishna & Sons, Booksellers, Anarkali, Lahore. Student8 Popular Depbt, Anarkali. Lahore. The Standard Book8tall Lahore. The Proprietor, Punjab $amhit Book Dep&, Saidmltbs Strea
Amlpuddaula Park Lucknow.
and Allahabad.
Lahore. The Insurance Pnbilcity Co Ltd Lahore. The Punjab Re1 ow Book goclet;, Lahore. The Commerclal%ook Co Lahore. Phe University Book Age&y, KacharI Road, Lahore. Manager of the Imperial Book Depot, 6S, Chmdner
.J. M. .laIan pnd Exoj., DelN. Fono Book Agency New DelhI and Slmla. Oxford Book an; Stationery Company, Delhi. Lahore,
Street, Delhi. Ckou
- - - , 81ml Meerut and Culcutta.
Supdt Americau Baptist Miasfon Presa, Bmgoon. Burm;Book Club Ltd llaugoon. 8 C. Talukdar Pioprieibr Students & Co., Cowh Bahar. $he Manager 'The Indian' Book Shop, Benarea Clty. Nandliishore 'Q BrOs The SriviUIputtur dloperatide Trading Union, Ltd, 8rM!
puttur (8. I. R.). Raghunath Prasad & SOM, Patna Clty. The Students' Emporium Patna. 6. L. Kathur & Bros.. Quh, Patna City. Kamala Book Stores, Bankipore, PatM. 0 Banerje8 c& Bros Ranahi. N'. C. Kotharl, Bpip& Road, Baroda. B Parlkh & Co Baroda. *the Hyderabad*'Book Depot, Chsderghat, Eyderebad ( D W 8. Rrishnsswaml & Co., Teppaknlpm P. O., Trlchinopo1y FOI Garuataka Publishin House Benghlore CltY. Fbheema Sons, Fort 8,ngaI;re City. Guporlntendent, Bangalsre Press, Lake Vlew, Mysore Ron
Chowk Benares Clty.
Uzngalore City. AQENT IN P4LEBTINE :-Stelmatekp, Jemalem.
'A~ent f x publicatlous on aviation only.
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TABLE OF CONTENTS: Jntroductory Note . . . . . . . List of Delegates. etc . . . . . . . I s t Plenary Meeting (28th November. 1931)-
Presentation of Reports of Committees . . The Raja of Korea . . . . . . Sir A . P . Patro . . . . . . . Sir Abdul Qaiyum . . . . . . The Raja of Sarila . . . . . . Sir Cowasji Jehangir . . . . . . Dr . Narendra Nath Law . . . . . H . H . The Nawab of Bhopal The Maharaja of Darbhanga . . . . Mr . Fwl-ul-Huq . . . . . . Sir Padamji Ginwala . . . . . Mr . V . V . Giri . . . . . . . Khan Bahadur I-lafiz Hidayat Husnin . . Rai Bahadur S . M . Bapna Mr . J . N . Basu . . . . . . The Nawab of Chhitari . . . . . Raja Narendra Nath . . . . . Mr . B . V . Jadhav . . . . . . Slrdar Jarmani Dass . . . . . 91r . S . C . Barooah . . . . . . Raja of Bobbili . . . . . . . Sir Hubert Carr . . . . . . Mr . A . R . Iyengar . . . . . . Sir Manubhai Mehta . . . . .
. . . .
. . . .
and Plenary Meeting (30th November. 1931)- M r . ?&I . R . Jayakar . . . . . . The Marquess of Reading . . . . . Diwan Bahadur Ramachandra Rao . . . Sir Phiroze Sethna . . . . . . Raja Sher Muhammad Khan . . . . Mrs . Sarojiiii Naidu . . . . . . Sardar Sampuraii Singh . . . . . H . H . The itfaharao of Cutch . . . . I)r . B . S . Moonje . . . . . .
Rao Bahadur Srinivasan . . . . . Dr . S . K . Datta . . . . . . 3Ir . Wedgwood Benn . . . . . Sir Tej Bahadur Sapru . . . . . Diwan Bahadur T . Raghaviah Dr . Shafa'at Ahmad Khan . . . . . Sir Akbar Hpdari . . . . . . X r s . Subbarayan . . . . . .
. . . .
PAGE. . . . . 1 . . . . 3
. . . . 9
. . . . 1-2
. . . . 17
. . . - 2 0
. . . . 25
. . . . 29
. . . . 38
. . . . 37 . . . . 38
. . . . 40 . . . . . 51 . . . . 57
. . . . 61
. . . . 67 . . . . 76 . . . . 81 . . . . 83 . . . . 87
. . . . 59 . . . . 92
. . . . 06 . . . . 103
. . . . 106
. ' . . 111
. . . . 116
. . . . 1P3
. . . . 125 . . . . 332
. . . . 138
. . . . 141
. . . . 147
. . . . 1b9
. . . . 153 . . . . 163 . . * . 170 . . . . 113 . . . . 178 . . . . 188
. . . . 191 . . . . 1'36 . . . . 298
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2nd Plenary Meeting (30th November. 1931)--eontd . M’r . Jamal Muhammad . . . . . Mr . A . H . Ghuinavi Sayed Muhammad Padshah . . . . Sir Henry Gidney . . . . . . H . R . The Maharaj Rana of Dholpur . Nawab Liaqat Hayat Khan . . . . Sir Sayed Muhammad Mehr Shah . . . Mr . Shiva Rao . . . . . . . Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto . . . . . Mi- . G . D . Birla . . . . . . Mr . S . B . Tambe . . . . . . Sir Chimanlal Setalvad . . . . . Sir Purshotamdas Thakurdas . . . . Diwan Bahadur Ramaswami Mudaliyar . . Mr . M . K . Gandhi . . . . . . Pandit M . M . Malaviya . . . . . Mr . Srinivasa Sastri . . . . . Loyal Message to His Majesty the King-Emperor
. . . . . .
.
Sir Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah . . .
PACE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
201 205 214 217 FL E 227 231 234 237 238 248 249 252
163 265 276 282 288
a58
Final Plenary Meeting (1st December. 1931)- Reply from His Majesty the King-Emperor to Loyal Message
4lr . Ramsay MacDonald (Statement on behalf of His Majesty’s
. 28 9.
Government) . . . . . . . . . . - 2 8 9 Mr . M . K . Gandhi . . . . . . . . . . 295 Sir Abdul Qaiyum . . . . . . . . . . 297 H . H . The Nawab of Bhopal . . . . . . . . 298 Mr . Ramsay MacDonad . . . . . . . . . 299
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INDIAN ROUND TABLE CONFERENCE (SECOND SESSION).
INTRODUCTORY NOTE.
Tbe first Session of the Indian Honnd Table Conference n a s held between 12th Xoveuber, 1930, and 19th January , 1931. The proceedings were presented to Par l iament in Cnid. 3778 of 1931. The second Se%sion of the Conference, Kith which this preseut volume is concerned, was held between 7th September and 1st Deceinber, 1931. Thirty-one additional members were appointed to the Conference for its second Session. I n accordance with pala- graphs 2 and 3 of tlic agreement reached on the 5th Uarch, 1931, between H i s Icxcellency the Viceroy and Xr. Gandhi, the Indinn Sat ionol Congress was represented, Nr. Gandhi attending as the sole representative.
2. The second Session did not open with a meeting of the ful l Conference. The Federal Structure Committee was reassembled on the 7th Septeinber and the Minorities Committee on the 28tb September, followed ‘by a Plenary Session beginning on the 28th November, 1931. The other Committees of the Conference were not reassembled. The peisonne: of the Federal Striicture Conimit- tee and Minorities Comni ttee was somewhat enlarged.
3. The Lord Chancellor placed before the Federal Strnctiire Committee the following Heads for further consideration in con- tinuation of their deliberations a t the first SesGion :-
(1) Strength and compositiou of the Federal Legislature, iiicliirling the proportions in each Chamber to be assigned to the States and to British India iespectively.
(2) Direct and indirect methods of election. (3) Relations between the two Chambers. (4) Distribution of finanrial resoiirces between the Feclera-
(5) The Ministry, and its relations with the Legislature. (0) IXstrihution of legislatire polvers between the Federal
and Prorincial J,egislatures: effect in the States of legislation relating to Fedeial Subjects.
(7) , idministrat i r e relnf ions between the Federal Go\-eru- ment, the States and the Prorinces.
(8) The Federal Court.
tion aiid its Vnits.
On Heads (1) to (4) and (S) the Committee presented a Report . O-ring to the failure of the Ninorities which is their third Report.
R.T.C. B
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2
Committee to reach any solutions of the problems under their con- sideration (see paragraph 5 belo---), it was not found ossible to haye more than a partial discussion on heads (5) to (7) an x the Committee presented no report in respect of these matters.
4. The Committee further considered the subjects of Defence (in its constitutional aspects), Ikternal Relations, Financial Safe- uards and Commercial Discrimination, and presented its four tb
fteport dealing with these questions. As explained in the first para- graph of the fourth Report, the Comit tze , in discussing these subjecte, did not have the advantage of hearing the views of an im- portant section of i t e membership.
5. The Minorities Committee were unable to reach my agreed conclusions on the subjects unde1 their consideration and reported to that effect in their second Report.
6. A Plenary Sesaion of the Conference waa held from 28th November to 1st December, 19.31, to receive the third and fourth Reports of the Federal Structure Committee, the second Report of the Minorities Committee, and to discuss the whole field of the work‘ of the Conference. The proceedings of the Plenary Session are
iren on pages 9 to 300. The Session was concluded *ith B feclaration by- the Prime Jlinister explaining the Elovernment’e policy (see pages 288 to 295).
7. The reports of the Sub-Committees are printed in one volume and the proceeding8 of theae Committees in three separate volumee.
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INDIAN ROUND TABLE CONFER.ENCE (SECOND SESSION).
LIST OF DELEGATES.
BRITISR REPRESEXTATIVES. THE 1 i I G H T Hox. J? Rairsiy NACDOSALD, M.P. (Chairma9a of
THE RIGirr Hox. WEDGWOOJ) IJEXFN, D.S.O., D.F.C., N.P. NAJOR W. E. ELLIOI, U.C., 31.1’. NR. ISAAC FOOT, U.P.
the Conference).
N R . If. ~~R-44HA&I-~’IllTE, X.P. * THE RIGHT HON. VISt OENT RAILSHAU, SIR ROBERT HAMILTOX, M.P.
THE RIGHT IIos. SIR SAMUEL Ho-m~, BART., G.B.E., C.M.G.,
THE RIGHT HON. SIR WLLLIAN JOWITT, K.C., M.P. THE RIGHT Hm-. H. W. LEES-SYIIH, M.P. THE MOST How. THE XARQVESS OF LOTHIAN, C.H. THE R.IGHT HON. EAXL PEEL, U.B.E. MR. F. 7.7.’. PETHICK-LAWRXNCE, N.P. THE MOST EON. THE MARQUESS OF READISG, G.C.B., G.C.S.I.,
THE RIGEIT HON. LOED SAKKEY, G.B.E.
MAJOR THE HON. OLIVER STAXLEY, M.C., M.P.
THE MOST HOK. THE MARQVESS OF ZETLAKD, G.C.S.I., G.C.T.E.
* THE RIGHT Hos. ARTHLCR HESDERSON, M.P.
X.P.
G.C.I.E., G.C.V.O.
l THE LORD SNELL.
a THE BIGHT HON. J. H. THOMAS, X.P.
INDIAN STATES’ REYRESEKTATIVES. COLOKEL HIS HIGHKESS THE MAH.4R-4JA OF ALWAR, G.C.S.I.,
G.C.I.E.
LIECTEXAh-T-COLONEL HIS HIQHNESS THE R’AwAB OF BHOPAL,
X,IEIXWSAXT-GENZRAL HIS HIQHXESS THE ?&4lL4RAJA OF BIKANEE, G.C.I.E., C.S.I., C.V.O.
G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., G.C.V.O., G.H.E., K.C.B., A.D.C. HIS HIGIIKESS THE MAHARAO OF CUTCH, G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E.
Additional Delegate appointed for Second Session. Did not attend the Second Session.
B 2
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IXDIAK STATXS’ REP&ESEXTATIVES (contd.). Z~IE~.TGSANT-COI,OSEL HIS IIIGHSESS THE XAIIARAJ RAXA OF
DHOLITR, G.C.I.E., H.C.S.I., K.C.V.O. ’ 111s I~IGHKESS THE NAIIARAJA OF ISDORE.
G.C.I.X., H.C.V.O. CCJLOXEL HIS HIGITSXSS TILE XAHARAJA OF JAMWG ASD KASIIIIIR,
cOLOXLIA HIS HrciIisESs 1 1 3 ~ N4HARAJA OF KAPURTHAL-I,
ti LIIXJTEXAXT-COLCJX~-EL HIS HIGHXESS y w MAHARAJA OF KAWA-
’ XAJOR-GENERAL HIS H~GIIKESS THE MAHARAJA OF YATIALA,
G.G.S.I., G.C.I.E., G.B.E.
K- GAR, G.C.S.I., G.B.E.
G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., G.C.V.O., G.B.E., A.D.C. HIS HIGRXESS THE &i€I,lK.%JA OF REWA, G.C.I.E., H.C.S.1. HIS HIGHNESS THE CIIIEF SAHIB OF SASGLI, K.C.I.E. ’ THE RAJA OF KOREA. ’ TNE RAJA OF SARILA.
SIIL PR-IBHASHAXKAR PATTASI, R.C.I.E.
SARDAR SAHIBZAUA SULTAN AHXED Kmx, C.I.E. * SIR XASUBHAI NASDSHAXKAX NEHTA, C.S.I.
NAWAB SIR MUHAMMAD AKBAI~ HPD.4RI. ’ SIR NIRZA N. ISNAIL, C.I.E., O.B.E.
COLONEL K. N. HARSAR, C.I.E. DIWAN BAHADUR T. RAGHAVIAH, C.S.I. KAWU LIAQAT HAYAT Kmx.
BRITISH-INDlBN REPRESERTATIVES. HIS Hranmss THE AGA KHAS, G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., G.C.V.O. SIR C. P. RAMASWAMI AIYAR, E.C.T.E. SIR SAITED ALI 131-u, K.C.S.I.
DR. BHIMRAO RAMJT AJLBEDKAR.
NR. J. N. BASU.
SIR SHAH NAWAZ EHAN GHULAU YURTAZA KWN BWTTO,
l MAULANA SHACKAT *&I.
SRIJTiT CHANDR-4DHkR RAROOAfl.
HE. E’. c. &STHALL.
C.I.E., O.B.E. 1 Bdditional Delegate appointed for Second Session. * Did not attend the Second Session. 3 Also represents Jaipur and Jodhpur States.
‘Substitute Delegate for His Highness the Maharaja of Patiale.
Represented H.R. the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir a t the Second
Did not attend Second Session, but was represented by Mr. L. F. Session.
Rushbrook Williams. ’ Did not attend Second Session. but was represented by Nawab Liaqat
Hayat Khan. Also represented H.H. the JIahsraja of Bikaner after latter’s departure.
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BRITISH-1XZ)IAN REPRESXXTATIVES (contd.). M R . G. D. BIRT,A.
] *~TIIE RAJA OF HOHBILI. SIR HURERT CARR. MR. C. Y. CHIKTAMASI.
CAPTAIN NAWAII S I R MCHAUJZ4D AHJrAD SAID KHAK OF CHHITARI, K.C.I.E., Y.B.E.
SIR MANECKJEE DADABHOY, K.C.I.E. MAGLVI MUHAMMAD S ~ I UAOODI.
MAHARAJADHIRAJA HAXESHWAR SIXGH OF DARBHAKGA. DR. S. E. DATTA. CAPTAIN RAJA SHER MUHAMMAD k x OF DOMELI. MR. FAZL-UL-HUQ.
l MR. M. K. GANDHI. ME. A. H. GFIUZNAVI. . LIEUT.-COL. SIR HESRY GIDSEY, I.N.S. (retired). SIR Pmmn GIXWALA.
Sm G H ~ HUSSAIK HIDAYATULLAH. KHAN BAIIADUR EAFIZ HIDAYAT HUSAIN. SIR MUHAMMAD IQBAL. MR. A. RANGASWAMI IYEKGAR. MR. BHASKARRAO VITROJIRAO JADHAV. YE. JUAL MUKAMMLU). NE. hi. R. JAYAXAR. SIR COWASJI JF=NGIE. K.C.1 .E.. O.B.E. MR. M. A. JINNAH. ’
ME. T. 3’. GAVIN JONES. MR. N. M. Josat.
MR. v. v. GIRL
DR. N.4REXDRA N.4TH L.4Tv.
PANDIT MADAN i ( l O I W - JfALAVIYA. NAWAB SAHIBZADA SIR SAYED MUHAMXAD MEHR SHAH. SIR PROVASH CIXUNDER MITTER, C.I.E. MR. H. P. MODY. DR. B. S. MOONJE. DIWAN BAHADUR A. RAMASWAMI MUDALISAR. MRS. SAROJINI NAIDU. DIWAN BAHADUR RAJA NARENDRA NA~H.
RAO BAHADIJR A. T. PANI\’IE SELVM. l SAYED MUHAMMAD PADSEAE SAEEB BAEADUR.
1 Additional delegate appointed for Second Seasion. a Attended in place of the Raja of Parlakimedi. a Did not attend the Second Session.
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BRITISH-INDIAN REPBESENTATIVES (concld.). RAJA OF PARLAKIXEDI. RAO BAHADTR SIR &SSEPI: YARASUR.4MAD-4S PATRO.
SA.\\-.iB SIR 8AUIBZ-4DA BBIKL QAIYUM KHAN, K.C.1.E. n I W A K BAHADVR x. RAMAC€IAI\DRA RAO. XR. B. SHIVA RAO. SIR SAYED SULTAN AHUED. SIR TEJ BAHADUR SAPRU, K.C.S.I.
SARDAR SAMPIJRAN SIXGH.
SIR CHIMANLAL SETALVAD, K.C.I.E.
SIR PHIROZE SETHNA, O.B.E.
BEGEM Sam NAWAZ. M. R. RY. RAO BAHADTR SRINIVASAN. MRS. SUBBARAYAX. MR. SHaIPaD BALWAKT TAW.
SARDAE SAHIB SARDAR UJJAL SISGH. SIR C. E. WOOD. XR. ZAFRULIAEI KHAX
SIR MUHAMMAD SHAFI, K.C.S.T., C.I.E.
THE RIGHT HOX. V. S. SRIXIV-4s-4 SASTRI, C.H.
a RAI BAHADUE KENWAE BISREYHWAR DAYAL SETH.
DR. SHAFA’AT AHMAD &IAN.
l SIR PURSHOTAMDAS THAKURDAS, C.I.E.
In addition, U hung Thin, TT Ba Pe, Sir 0. de Olanville and Mr. X. M. Ohn Ghine, who represented Burma on the First Session of the Conference, remairusd formally members of the Conference, but did not attend owing to the formation of a separate Burma Round Table Conference.
INDIAN STATES DELEGATION STAFF. Adviser to His Highness the Maharaja Gaekwar of Baroh .
klcluisers to the Delegate for Hyderabad. RAO BAHADUR KEISHNAMA CHARI, C.1.E.
LIEGT.-COL. SIR EICHARD CHEXEVIX-TRENCH, C.I.E., O.B.E. NdWAB &fAHDI P A R JUXG.
A ~ v ~ ~ P T to His Highness the Maharuja of Indore.
Adviser for Jaiptw State. RAI BAHADUR S. N. BAPNA.
RAI B.4HADUR PANIIIT AVAR S A T E ATAI,. -- 1 Additional Delegate appointed for Second Session. a Did not attend the Second Session.
Acted as substitute delegate in absence of H.H. the Maharaja Gaewkar
Acted as substitute delegate in absence of H.H. the Maharaja of Indore. of Baroda.
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INDIAN STATES DELEGATTOW STAFF (contd.). Adviser for Jodhwr Stute.
Adviser for KashmiT State.
&?.cise.r for Rampup State.
Adviser for the Orissca States .
Adzisem nominated by the Chamber of Princes Special Oryanisution.
MR. 6 . TI’. YOCNG, 0.B.E.
PANDIT RAhiACI€A?TDKk KAK.
SAHIBZADA ABDUS SAXAD KHAN, C.L.E.
MR. K. C. NEOGY.
MR. L. F. RUSHFSROOK WILLIAMS, C.B.E. SIRDAR JARMAXI DASS, O.B.E.
MR. M. S. A. HYDABI, I.C.S. Ma. K. M. PANIBK~. MR. N. MADHAVA R4o.
Secretca.riat.
BRITISH DELEGATION STAFF. MR. H. G. HAIQ, C.S.I., C.I.E., 1.C.S.
MR. V. DAWSON, C.I.E. Ma. I(. S. FITZE, I.C.S. MR. J. G. IJAITHWAITE (personally attached b the Prime
Ma. W. H. LEWIS, C.I.E., I.C.S. MR. P. J. PATRICK.
Secretaries.
Minister) .
PROP. J. COATMAS, C.I.E. (Secretary to the Liberal Delegation). MR. Q. T. GARRAW (Secretary to the Opposition Labour Delega-
MR. g . J. SroPFoXn (Secretary to the Comervatire I)elegation), tion).
BRITISH INDIAX DX1,EGATIOS STAFF. SecretaTies.
SIR GEOFFREY CORBETT, E.B.E., C .I. E. , 1.C 3. XR. A. LATIFI, O.B.E., I.C.S. NR. (3. S. BAJPAI, C.I.X., C.B.E., I.C.S. .Ma. B. RAMA RAU, C.I.E., I.C.S. ‘Acted as substitute delegate in absence of H.H. the Haharaja of
a Acted 8s substitute delegate in absence of H.H. the Maharsia d Nawanagar.
!Kapurthnla.
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BRITISH INDIAN DELEGATION STAFF-(cont&.) Additional staff (Honorary).
SAYED AXJAD ,!LI.
THE ALP EEAN. XR. A. N. CHAGDHURY. XR. MAIIAUEO DESAI. PASUIT GOVISD XALAVIYA.
PROFESSOR K. T. SIL~H. UR. P. SISHA.
I’AXDIT R. K. XALAVISA.
SECRETARIAT-GENER AL. Secpetary-General.
Secretaries. UR. It. H. A. CARTER, C.B.
XR. K. hXDXIZSOX. NR. C. 11). DESHMIUKH, I.C.S. XR. J. X. SLADEX, I.C.S.
X n . HCGH XACGREGOR. NE. Q. F. STISWARD, C.B.E. NR. A. H. JOYCE.
Publ ic i ty Oficers.
A ddit ioml (Hon,ornry). SATED ,&TAD ALI. Ma. RAM BABC SAKSESA, U.P.C.S.
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;those minorities. They are not a very vocal body, and their claims are rarely pressed by the lawyer-poli- ticians. This class served the country in her hour of greatest need, a n d will shed their blood if again occasion demands it. This minority alone has proved ia the last world war that India is fit for substantial constitutional advance, and this is the minority for which our distinguished Pandit spoke so highly. It will only be fair if they are granted adequt$e,representation in the Local and Provincial Legislatures. I n any scheme of franchise, too, they should be given the right of vote to the Provincial and Central Legislatures.
I n the end I will say to my fellow-Delegates that an efficient, effective army is the bulwark of every country, the very foundation of every constitution. Give your army a sense of security and con- tentment, and your political prosperity will march i n an atmosphere of peace.
Mrs. Nuidu: Mr. Prime Minister, when I look round this table I find experts in every department of life. There are men of law, some of whom act as “ experienced foremen ” in building the great architectural edifice of India’s constitution like Sir Tej Bahadur Sapru. There are men of finance like Sir Purshotamdas Thakurdas. There are soldiers who speak with no uncertain voice, like my pre- decessor. There are men representing Labour. There are those representing women who are neither a minority nor a special inter- est. There are landholders, there are champions of one interest or another, and I am beginning to wonder what place I can fill in an assembly like this. I have neither experience nor knowledge of all those expert matters that have been dealt with in the Federal Struc- ture Committee. I do not understand the technicalities of constitu- tion-making and therefore where all have spoken as champions of one interest or another I propose, if you will permit me, to speak only as an Indian, not as a lawyer, politician, soldier, on or off duty, or a member of the financial or princely classes, autocracies, or a member of the aristocracies that are represented here. You will permit me, Mr. Prime Minister, in view of the very grave issues before us to say something that comes from the very core of my heart.
Jntellectual discussions, analyses andi counter-analyses, proofs in favour of this point of view, or proofs in refutation-these are not t he real issues today . My whole country is awaiting that worrl- penultimate or ultimate as you choose to make it-of England’s atti- tude towards India. It has becn my great privilege these many pears to have lived very close to the heartbeat of my people. 1 know the heartbeat of tgeir agony. I kr?w the heartbeat of their hope. Are you going to-morrow to r(uhj\ od to the a,gony or to the hope of my people? That is the quest ,V I would like to ask you. The Lord Chancellor when he spoke a t Eh t opening of this Plenary Session after YOU, Mr. Prime Minister, *A, an image that sounds very beautiful. R e talked of the Taj Mahal. R e talked of its
I mean the ez-soldiers.
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beauty, its unrivalled: proportions. the patience that went to the making of that beautiful edifice.
Did he forget, when he used the analogy of the Taj &faha1 with its jewelled walls, its fretted domes, its marble turrets, that the Taj Maha1 was built Over the bones of beauty that was Once alive? Did he forget it was slave labour that made those jewelled Walls, and that the cementing force that keeps that edifice alive Was the sweat and the agony of that slave labour, forced from flay to day to build up that house of beauty? Is it the Taj Mahal that you are going to build after years and years of labour and years and years of patience, on1 to enshrine the dead bones of our hope-or Elre you going to rea P ise that there is no time to-day, there is no patience to-day, there is no fai th left to-day for so prolonged a piece of labour as the building of a Taj Mahal with jewelled walls ?
My young men and young women who do me the honour of looking on me as their comrade, their friend and their leader, are dying under the sweat and anguish of slavery, gild it as you will with any beautiful word out of your English language. Wha t is the answer you will make to those young men and women, many of whom have studied in your univer- fiities and have been nourished on the history of the liberties of the great nations of Europe, and who are only held in leash from revo- lution because of the pledge and promise that we, their comrades, their servants and their leaders, have made, that we shall bring back from England something, some substantial alternative to their demand for that word you dread, independence?
Ny work has not lain in the Fede- ral Structure Committee except as a spectator, but almost every day during all the weeks that I have been here my work has lain out- side the Federal Structure Committee. I have been addressing large groups or small groups of men and women, both friendly andf hostile to India, and it seemed to me that from the point of view of knowledge there was very little to choose between the friendly and hostile sections of the English people. The same arguments, onlv punctuated differently, were advanced by both. Was India really ready for freedom? Were not there dreadful things called com- munal conflicts? Was not the rumour of riot on every wind? Was not every street more or less symbolised by blood-stains that meant hatred, conflict, tumult, turmoil, that could only be assuaged, appeased, controlled or conquered by English forces and by English authority? This in brief. this in one word, is the attitude of both those who Sincerely desire India's advance and those who, wit%
and Patent sincerity, refuse to think of India except as a helot, except as something chained to Empire.
What is going to be your answer to-morrow, Prime Minister, to the demand of my country for freedom? I have no use €or words that are used either too rigidly or too vaguely. I have no use for n phrase like " Dominion Status " for instance. What does it connote-? I have been in most of the Colonies of the Empire, and'
H e talked of the labour,
My people are dying of hunger.
That is the answer I want.
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i n each Colony the meaning of the words “ Dominion Status ” is ,determined by its own special environment, its Own Special need and its own special achievement. It holds for me no particular meaning ,in any political dictionary so far as India is concerned. I have ,heard the world 4 i Independence ” used. That also is a word either .too rigid or too vague. I know small independent Countries that have not known how to manage their own internal affairs; that put
‘one kin,g upon the throne one day and cut off his head the next day, and are yet independent; which have not enough Ministers to send to the Courts of the world where they would be represented, have not
.enough soldiers, enough law-makers, enough subjects, have not enough Nobility or soldiers or anything necessary for the dignity and integrity of independent States. I am not enamoured either <of the word “ Independence ” or of the words “ Dominion Statue ”; +but I do claim the liberty of India, with the fullest implications of .what liberty must mean to every country in the world‘.
My illustrious leader, Mahatma Gandhi, when he has completed his twenty-four hours of silence, some time in Ohe afternoon will DO doubt reiterate in his own inimitable fashion the claim that he makes as the sole representative of the Indian National Congress. i will not seek to divide-because he will not allow me-the honour +of such representation; but I too have been a President and a repre- sentative of the Indian National Congsess and of that honour he cannot rob.me, for he divides it with me. I am therefore making a claim on behalf of the nation as he does, not with the technical authority of being its representative at your councils, but with the inviolable right of having been its servant and its leader. I speak and I say this to you in England that when Lord Reading to-day -talked of equal partnership, he talked of something that the best mind of India can appreciate, but only on its own terms.
What is this equal partnership of which we hear so much-? It can only mean a voluntary associa- tion on terms of equality, and to-day that equality is not there. You talk of a position equal to that of the Dominions. You forget that in your Dominions there are men who are your own kith and kin, of your own Tace, your own blood, your own culture and yonr own creed. They are held to you by a silken thread, whereas the irony of historic circumstances has forged a fetter round our feet, and therefore t o hold 11s by a manacle round your wrist, Until YOU break the bondage of that manacle and we break the bondage of that fetter, there can be no choice either for you or for US of that equal friendship which is the only enduring guarantee of good faith among partners who are friends.
I, in the name of the cause that I serve, make this claim for equal partnership, but I repeat it is only on terms of equality that leaves full choice to you as to whether one or other of us chooses t o diverage, it shall be so. But this is no threat, it is an offer; it is an offer to you in the critical moment of your history; it is an offer made in the critical moment of our history, and such a choice ‘doer
What is this equal partnership?
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not repeat itself even though they say history repeats itself. YOU will say to me, as so many others have said : but how can India have this liberty? Look!-you could not solve the question of the mino- rities. Look !-the question of the Depressed Classes is a stain upon the civilisation of which you boast. You will say to me: your friends the Muhammadans, have refused to co-operate in inaking the last days of this Conference either successful or unsuccessful. You will say to me: there is that little group of Europeans not satisfied yet with any offer that you have made. You will say: we have missionaries who made converts in your country-there a re Christians who do not feel secure against the majority of their own. original caste. You will say many things to us. But I have always maintained that the greatness, the glory of India does consist in just these minorities, just such majorities. It .is in the welding together of all these divergent things, reconciled and harmonised by my country into one integral nation, that makes the glory of India; and if we have not succeeded in solving for the moment those purely artificial questions of vulgar fractions, that arithmetic which divides a power inta little fractions for this com- munity and for that community, I do not feel that it affects in a n y way the vital issue of liberty for my land.
If a few scores of politicians have not succeeded in doing arithmetical calculations I ask you to make a decision, but do not let our temporary failure to arrive a t a settlement act in any way as an excuse, valid o r not, for postponing the hour or' India's liberty.
My friend Dr. Ambedkar looks at me now and then with reproachful eyes. He says: Yes, but what are you going to do. about the Depressed Classes? So many people not in any way con-. nected with the Depressed Classes have already expressed anxiet? for the Depressed Classes. Here and now let me tell my friend' 91,. Ambedkar that I, the descendant of the proudest class of Brah- mins in India, do not feel any reproach in his look. My duty has. always been fulfilled in that regard, and not I only, but I speak in the name of all when I say that the leaders of the Hindu community should be and shall be pledged, whatever happens to the constitu- tion of India's future, to remove this blot, to expiate the sins of dis- inheriting our ancestors for the dehumanising of one section of our own kith and kin. As fa r as it is possible for me and those who think like me it will be the first charge upon all our energies and OUT
labours that every disability froni whirh these tragic people suffer shall be removed and that they shall have a place in all things, social and political, equal to the highest who bear the label of the Vedic castes upon their brow. I will not stand for injustice or inequality to the poor and the depressed but I won113 say to Dr. Ambedkar that anyone who would serve the community that he represents would merely do a dis-service to them if he would strive to isolate them away behind electoral barriers as something outcaste from the assembly of those whose desire and duty i t is to teach tEem tEe great
Mr. Prime Minister, you to-day are in authority.
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lesson of self-reliance and self-respect. I n all else that matters, for all political purpomfi, for all human purposee I will challenge any Hindu in this gathering to deny them rights that are enjoyed by men of all other communities outside the Hindu pale.
What will you do, Mr. Prime Minister, to further this question of Federation? The Princes have spoken, the greater Princes have spoken. They have spoken, realising that they are Indians first and Princes afterwards. They have spoken realising that India must be one integral whole, indivisible in her destiny. I have spoken of Federation as the circumference of a circle, which has one centre, that unites all. From that centre each radius might go its own way, but all must be circumscribed by that circumference. I wel- come with all my heart this: idea of Federation. All my life I have been a dreamer of dreams of a Federated India that shall be free, each section having its own sovereign integrity, but yet bound one t o the other by some focussing point of a common purpose and a com- mon destiny. But when I hear that there are some who would like to see what rights are going to be guaranteed to them, what powers will be reserved to them to continue undesirable and obsolete methods of autocracy, who say that we must wait until they have made up their minds, I say and I repeat, and I will always say and reiterate that the youth of India will not wait upon the leisure of Princes. Not very long ago I said to my own Ruler, the Nizam of Hyderabad, “Sir, when the people begin to walk, Princes must begin to run to. keep pace with them.’’ The only security for the thrones of India lies in the hearts and the allegiance of the people. I believe that the Princes around this table have understood that ultimate security lies, not on a throne of gold, but in the hearts of the people, whom they rule. Therefore, I welcome their efforts and their desire to come into a Federation of a free India. But I should like to say, on behalf of the peoples of India, that we shall not be content with an alliance merely between dynasties and democracy, but that their people too shall have a voice in the councils of a free India.
I do not wish-I am not competent, for one thing-to make any criticism of the various aspects of the Federal Structure Report, but I feel that no constitution, however perfect in its technicalities, how- ever beautifully dovetailed into each other its sections may be, merely on paper, can ever last for a single day, unless it is co- ordinated to the immediate and urgent issues of life as they exist in India to-day. To-day, the problem is a problem of hunger ; to-day, the problem is the problem of a nation that has the shame to be defended by foreign forces ; t oday , it is the humiliation of a coun- t ry whose youth is dying of a broken heart because the young men and the young women of the other countries where they go to study are free and make friends with them, vet all the time they realise that they are amongst the disinherited ones, the exiles of earth, in their own country, because thev have not the heritage of freedom which enables them to be masters of their own policies, not in one direction only, but in all the directions and departments of life.
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appeal to you, ~ r . Prime Xinister, is thie. Make real that ideal, that desire, that dream of a statesman who WaB Once 8 VicerOY~ Lord &a&ng+qual partnership. HOW divergent are the Ways by which men come to a conimou ideal! What two hmaff beings could be more different than the Saint of Sabarmati and the 85- Viceroy of India ; yet each of them use the 5-0 phra-qual .partnership.
I have sometimes been accused by those who we very ignorant or dense, or unimaginative-and there are so many in this cowtry like that, Mr. Prime Ninister-of being unfriendly to England. It is impossible for me to be unfriendly to England. So much of my youth has been spent in this country, and my friendships here are very real and spread over a very great number of years, more years than my vanity will permit me to tell you. My dreams for India have their roots deep down in my heart, but my friendships and associations with England have their roots intertwined with the roots of my d r a m s for India. Shall it be to-day that there must be so great a conflict between these two loyalties, that I must be compelled to eradicate one by its roots so that the other may live, or will you make it possible, by imagination, human understanding, sympathy, self-interest, if you will-will you make it possible for €housands of men and women like me who are patriots, but not nar- row nationalists, who love their country and yet have known how to transcend all barriers of race, creed, civilisation and climate, who would die so that freedom might be born for their country, but who woulEE not, i1 they could help it, make another nation suffer-no, not in its pocket, nor in its pride, nor in its l i f e w i l l you make it possible for people like me to cherish such twin loyalties. You will only ?lo it when you rise to the full heights of your own English Craditions, those traditions that inspired my childhood when from h y father’s lips I learned how England had always been the sanc- tuary of those who were exiled from their country for the sake of their dream of liberty. Do not be content with the mere technicali- ties, the mere texts and letters of the constitution that you woula give us, but be human in your vision and try to understand that even as you cherish liherty, so do me, a modern nation, cherish the dream of liberty. Do not drive us into being narrow nationalists when some of us by temperament, t?radition and every conviction in our beings me internationalists, without undue sense of race and CountV- Make it possihle to achieve that India, that free India, which 611 fitand side by side with vou with a bond of silk and not with a fetter of iron binding U S to
I dream a dream, not of some far distant future, hut of some immediate time when this will be possible ; when you make bravely, spontaneously, that beau gesfe of abdication, for that is what lies at the root of our demand. When you have abdicated nobly your claim and title, when rou have by your own abnegation of many imperialistic material interests risen to the height of your own spiri- tual greatness, stretch pour hand in fellowship and we shall not be lacking in the response that bids you “ Hail, but not farewell.”
But are the implications alike in both minds ?
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Smdar Sumpran Singli: Mr. Prime Minister, we are here together to evolve a democratic constitution for India. Democracy, after all, means equal treatment and equal opportunities for man- kind. For bringing about those conditions it is absolutely neces- sary that there should be one kind of government over a large popu- lation. To bring about democratic constitutions in the world, I aay with pleasure that you have achieved one thing; that is this, that you have built up a very large Empire on which you say with pride, that the sun never sets. Having achieved that one great thing, now it is for you to consolidate it and to bring about co-operation and co-ordination of all the parts of that great Empire so as to make it really one organisation having stability and the power to progress- further.
I n this connection I may submit to you here that it is your duty to bring about such a government in India as will develop all t h e resources and the nationhood of that country, so that they may become strong in themselves and, subsequently and consequently, a aource of strength to the whole Empire. I n this connection at pre- sent, if I may be allowed to say so, you are governing it in such a way that the conditions are going every day from bad to worse. If in some quarters it is understood that in order to govern a place you. have only to keep peace in that country, I would say that is wrong, and you can never achieve peace by the idea of achieving peace only, but that peace should be based on the psychology and the mentality of the people whom you govern.
People in India, if I may be allowed to say ao, have, on account of the present state of things, lost faith in British justice. Long. ago Lord Macaulay in one of his writings said that the foundation. of the British Empire lies in the faith of the people whom you rule in your justice. I beg to submit that that fodndation is not in its- proper condition to-day; you have to repair it, you have to mend it, and, if necessary, you will have to put new parts into it. I f you want the Empire really to develop and progress, this is my humble submission, that it is necessary that you should bring about that justice and that you should create faith in that justice amongst the people you want to keep within the British Empire. By the present methods you can never do that, so you must open new avenues and' new constitutions by which you can brisg that about. By your good luck, I would say, ever since you went to India the economic resources of that country developed, and the result was that t h e people became a little happier. Though the industries died, agricul- ture developed', but the present economic conditions of the worlcT have brought the country-I mean India-into the lowest ebb. Agriculture (of which I can speak with experience, being an agricul- turist myself) does not pay. People are sticking to that occupation simply because they have nothing else to do. They have been bor- rowing money, and now they cannot repay their creditors, neither have those few rich people any more money left t o lend. That is alr spent, gone in the way of the revenue and other charges on agricul-
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tnre, and to-day the whole nation is a nation of paupers, if I may be allowed to say so, except the gentlemen sitting on that side.
As I now speak of India I mould submit that those conditions have to be altered. What are the remedies? Retrenchment and radical retrenchment is absolutely necessary. I fully appreciate and agree with my friend Captain Raja Sher Muhammad Khan that there should not be a reduction either in the way of numbers or in the way of eEciency in the Indian Army. I agree with him, but I w-ould at the same time say that such a re-shuffling of the units should be made that in the place of the more expensive parts of the Army cheaper units should be put in. By this I mean that the Indian Army might be increased and the British Army might be reduced so as to make this retrenchment a little bit effective in that department as well. Perhaps I should have overlooked this question of the Army, but seeing that fifty per cent. of the revenues of the Government of India are absorbed by it, I do not think any effective retrenchment could be effected if one did not make it applicable to the Army as well. Again, Sir, in India, the question of exchange and the linking of the rupee with sterling is being taken very seri- ously. We have had some of our very best financiers present in London, and I was very glad to know that one or two meetings were held in the endeavour to come to some understanding or to convince them that this step which the Government of India had taken was absolutely necessary. I am sorry to say that neither any under- standing nor any convictions have been brought about on that ques- tion. I would submit that the effort should not be given up. Either the British financiers should convince our men and make them under- stand that the measures they are taking are really the right ones or amon,gst themselves they should come t o some understanding on the question, because I am. sure that if some right und'erstanding is arrived at it mill have a very good effect on the whole of India.
I would like to say a word' on the communal question as well. The communal question, in my opinion-I may be wrong-is more or less a subjective question. I live in a Province where Muham- madans are in a sniall majority, and I come from a class of people where some branches of a family are Muhammadans, some are Sikhs, am1 some are Hindus. Having lived in those villages and knowing those people so well I know that there is hardly any difference worth naming. So far as the economic interests of the people are concern- ed they go on with their professions and oiher things. The question of religion, which is more or less the root of this whole communal question, is a subjective question. It is only a question of bringing things into the right perspective. I think when that is done anit' when the people get an opportunity of handling their own affairs there will be no real difference amongst them. Communal differ- ences will disappear automatically without any special efforts.
It has been said in certain quarters that the British politicians have gained a great point by putting the Indian Delegates in a
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merit on the communal question. I do not agree with it. I know it is wrong, because we are gathered here to bring about good relations between two great nations, and we are gathered here to bring about good government in India which will satisfy the people of India without doing any harm to the British nation. For that end are we met, and that end we have always in view, and to put either party in the wrong-if we were to do it 30 England, or if the British politicians were to do it to us-would not help in the solution of that problem, and no statesman worthy of the name would do it, and I do not think it was ever meant.
Continuing this idea, I should like to say one thing, namely that it is absolutely necessary that the people of India should be satisfied .that the British Government really means business. If it is not done immediately things will go from bad to worse, and we get into a vicious circle. When Government wants the help of its subordin- ate officials in the districts and in the villages to curb all these dis- turbances, the result is that the authorities have to be lenient towards the subordinate staffs of the various departments, and these staffs expect certain favours, which always take the form of curruption. These people become corrupt, and the authorities, being to a certain extent under an obligation to them, cannot handle them as they should. That is one of the chief reasons why people in India are losisg their faith in the present Government.
Something has to be done, therefore, as otherwise, however mighty the British may be, and certainly they can exercise any amount of repression to keep the people quiet, they will not be able t o re-establish that faith in British justice in the hearts of Indians. I t can be done to-day, but it will be difficult to do so after some years. 1 am not thinking about bringing about good government and peace in India; I am thinking of establishing once again in India that faith in British justice which is the sole foundation on which in my opinion the Empire can be durably built.
I still look forward to the day when India will attain to her greatness and will work out her destiny within the British Empire, and the British Empire, with India and Dominions, will progress and go forward, until a day may come when people will have so much faith in Bri- tish, justice that other great countries will voluntarily come into this Empire, but it is diEcult to say whether in those days it will be called British Empire or something else. Perhaps we may have one G-overn.xient for the whole of the world. Some day it may be said to 'the honour of Britain and India-two countries very different from each other-that they by acting as partners in a great Empire laid the foundation for one democratic government for the whole world'.
(The Conference adjourned at 1-15 p . m . and resumed ut 2-30 p.m.) H.H. The Maharao of Catch: Prime Minister and gentlemen,
during the last few days I have listened with pleasure and respect to the speeches of many eminent persons who have been intimately
I do not believe it.
I am a born optimist, and I have not lost my faith.
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associated with the work of this Conference in general and of t he Federal Structure Committee in particular since its inception. In the few remarks which I shall now make I shall not attempt to cover the ground surveyed by them. My contribution to this discussion will be made from the relatively detached standpoint of one who was not a member of the Round Table Conference during its pre- vious Session and who has not been a member of the Federal Struc- ture Committee during the present Session. For this reason perhaps what I have to say may be of interest.
We of the Indian States have sometimes been accused of vacil- lation in our attitude towards the project of Federation; we have been accused of not knowing our own minds, of hesitating and of being over-cautious. May I ask, is this accusation quite justified? I would ask you to remember that when the Chamber of Princes met in 1930-which, after all, was only eighteen months ago-the pro- ject of Federation in its present form was not under consideration a t all. The Delegates representing the Indian States a t the First Ses- sion of the Round Table Conference were selected by His Excellency the Viceroy; and, although the Standing Committee of the Chamber of Princes was consulted in regard to those representatives, the Chamber of Princes itself had no opportunity to confer upon them any mandate. Thus it was that from the standpoint of the majority o€ the members of the Chamber of Princes, Federation in the sense in which it is now understood came into the field of practical politica between the 1930 and the 1931 Sessions.
Our representatives i n the First Session of the Round Table Con- ference, out of a patriotic desire to promote the interests of India, agreed for their own part to take an active share in the promotion of the scheme of Federation, subject to the safeguards necessary for the maintenance of the sovereignty, the integrity and the security of t h e Indian States. BKt, while all the opinions pronounced in the First Session of the Round Table Conference by the representatives of Indian opinion there gathered were provisional, the opinions of the representatives of the Ihdian Princes were provisional i n a speciaI degree, being subject to confirmation not only by the States individu- ally but also by the States collectively a t the meeting of the Cham- ber of Princes.
When th-e Chamber met early in the present year it was hardly to be expected that the rapid developments which had' taken place i n India would be received with entire equanimity. Many of the mem- bers of the Chamber were doubtful as to whether Federation was practical in the form proposed. Some were apprehensive of it, yet others reserving their opinion; and I think it is a distinct tribute to the patriotism and good sense of the Chamber of Princes that, although its members had to make up their minds in a very short period of time, there was unanimity when they authorised the con- tinuance of the endeavours to find a satisfactory solution of the federal project. Thus it came about that it was only this year that the Chamber of Princes gave their provisional assent to the idea of
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