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Carmen Sabatino 421 McHenry Ave Modesto, CA 95354 (209) 576-7116 In Pro Se

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

STANISLAUS COUNTY

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PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF

CALIFORNIA

Plaintiff,

vs.

FRANK CLIFFORD CARSON, ET. AL.,

Defendants.

Case No.: 1490969

[AMENDED] DECLARATION OF CARMEN SABATINO IN SUPPORT OF REPLY TO THE PEOPLE'S OPPOSITION TO CARMEN SABATINO'S REQUESTING CLARIFICATION OF JUDGE ZUNIGA'S "UNREPORTED MINUTE ORDER" SIGNED MAY 11TH, 2018 (FILED MAY 10TH, 2018) AND REQUEST TO BE REMOVED FROM WITNESS LIST AND REQUEST TO QUASH SUBPOENA.

Judge: Judge Zuniga Date: July 27 th , 2018 Time: 3:00PM Courtroom: Department 2

DECLARATION OF CARMEN SABATINO

I, Carmen Sabatino, declare:

1. I have never agreed to be served electronically nor is there an order regarding such.

2. On 06/14/2018, I discovered the PEOPLE'S OPPOSITION in my in-box and forwarded it to

GENE FORTE.

3. I understand that Gene Forte is not an attorney.

4. I engaged Gene Forte to facilitate communications and recruit an attorney to represent me.

5. On 5/23/18, when I gave the DECLARATION OF SABATINO in support of this subject

motion to the filing clerk, the filing clerk took the document, stamped it, left with it, and afte i

I waited at least 15 minutes, came back to the window and handed me the stamped

DECLARATION OF SABATINO while telling me that they could not file it.

6 The filing clerk also informed me that Judge Zuniga had requested the judicial council to

assign a judge to hear the motion, and that then afterwards the motion date would be set.

7. To my knowledge, the DECLARATION OF SABATINO dated May 22, 2018 has never

been filed and is not listed on the docket list I obtained from the court subsequent to that

date.

8. Attached as Exhibit 1 is a true and correct copy of the docket list I obtained from the

Stanislaus Superior Court filing clerk.

9. I have not had any conversations with any defense counsels in this subject case after March

19th , 2018.

10. Defense counsels were not the confidential sources, alluded to in my declaration (Pg. 6,

lns.20-24, ¶31, Decl., SABATINO dated 5/22/2018), who informed me of the accusations of

obstruction of justice levied against me by Judge Zuniga.

11. Attached as Exhibit 2 is a true and correct transcription of the audio recording of the meetin g

on 6/18/18 between Ferreira, Bunch, Forte, and myself done by the company TranscribeMe.

12. I was never served a Minute Order by Judge Zuniga putting me on notice of the accusations

of obstruction of justice.

13. I never made any attempt to make contact with any juror via FACEBOOK. I do not know

how to make a "friend request" because I am largely unfamiliar with Facebook and very

rarely utilizes it.

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1 14. I do not waive my right to file a CCP 170.3 to disqualify Judge Zuniga.

2 15. On May 24 th , 2018, I was served a "Unreported Minute Order" dated May 24th 2018 signed

by Judge Zuniga. 4

16. Attached as Exhibit 3 is a true and correct copy of the "Unreported Minute Order" dated May 5

6 24` 11 , 2018.

7 17. FORTE has attempted to recruit attorneys to represent me but was unable to. The attorneys

8 interviewed were unwilling to step into what has become a high visibility case (without an

9 exorbitant retainer) which appears to be fraught with what could be identified as a "fraud

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upon the court" due to the multiple procedural filing anomalies that befell me in putting forth ll

my motion.

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14 I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct to the best of my

15 knowledge and that this declaration was executed on July 10th, 2018, in Modesto, California,

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County of Stanislaus. 17

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20 DATE: July 10 1h , 2018 21

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Respectfully submitted:

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Carmen Sabatino

616 Return on Bench Warrant for Scott Allen Rollins filed 4/11/18

617 Agreement and Promise to Appear for Scott Allen Rollins filed 4/11/18

618 Agreement and Promise to Appear for Scott Allen Rollins — Corrected Copy filed 4/17/18

619 Abstract and Return on Bench Warrant for Sarah Elizabeth O'Keefe filed 4/20/18

620 Minute Order 4/20/18 for Sarah O'Keefe

621 Minute Order - Jury Trial Day 59 4/24/18 622 Minute Order — Jury Trial Day 60 4/25/18

623 Return on Production Order for Witness Edward Earl Regua, Jr. filed 4/25/18

624 Minute Order — Jury Trial Day 61 4/26/18



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VOLUME 1Q

Defendant name PRANK CARSON Case # 1490969 Page # 1

10 , +

Transcribe Date: 06-1u1-2018

Input sound file: 1806180521- Ferreira-Sabatino-Starbucks.MP3

Transcription results:

Si 00:00 FORTE: What's today's date anyway?

52 00:02 FERREIRA: 18th.

Si 00:03 FORTE: 18th, okay. This is Gene Forte, with Chief DA, Marlisa Ferreira, Mr. Kirk Bunch,

and Mr. Carmen Sabatino. Everybody say hello.

53 00:15 SABATINO: Hello.

52 00:15 FERREIRA: Hello, good morning.

Si 00:16 FORTE: Okay. And we decided we're going to meet here at the Starbucks on Oakdale

so-- and just discuss a couple of things concerning Mr. Sabatino. Everybody knows I'm not an attorney and Marlisa and Mr. Jacobson have certainly made us aware of that.

With that said, I will communicate that,1 don't know if you got the most recent

emails, but, Larry Cole, do you know Larry?

52 00:47 FERREIRA: Yes.

Si 00:48 FORTE: Larry Cole-- I was speaking with Larry this morning and he did meet with, Carmen and over at Sabatino's, and he's entertaining, representing Carmen in this matter. He was willing to meet anytime today, but the thing was that he had an appointment right at this time that conflicted. So, I also tell you that and that's also

available if you'd like to do that with him present if it'd make you feel more comfortable, there you go.

S2 01:17 FERREIRA: I'm, I'm fine. I, I think we're gonna work it out. So, I'm not really worried too much about it. So, just to get right to the point I think, the issue of your exclusion, could be remedied very easily by making an agreement that you are welcome to be present for certain witnesses as long as they don't have anything to do with the defense of Mr. Carson's defense that there was a political vendetta was the reason why, you know, that, that he was arrested. So, you know, that's most witnesses because really, it's only, a couple of witnesses I can think of that would be, where you

have to agree to go ahead and exclude yourself. So basically, what we would do is agree you're welcome to come back into the courtroom and if we feel that the next witness up is someone that goes to that particular defense, we would notify you and

you would agree to go ahead and voluntarily leave. And I think that would suffice to

accommodate both parties and both sides. And I talked with the judge a little bit about, you know, let me see if I can work it out. I think you probably could. And if we can't then, I told her that you might be subpoena continuance, but if we can work it out, we don't have to deal with any of it. What do you think?

Si 02:44 FORTE: Well, Carmen, you've been nodding your head. And one thing recorders don't pick up-

S3 02:49 SABATINO: Okay, well that's--

TranscribeMe y a 1

Transcribe FORTE: --[crosstalk] nodding.

SABATINO: Right, I understand what she's saying, but I really can't--

FORTE: And, and you understand well okay-- well, but these are some of the things

we discussed also.

SABATINO: Right.

FORTE: And you're nodding, this is not attorney/client privileged, not even close to it

but essentially, I think the issue that Carmen had was-- I guess it starts with

[inaudible]. We're trying to ascertain this from Mr. Jacobson, but one, he'd asked to

get a copy of the subpoena. For some reason, he'd lost his. But he was trying to get a

copy of it but never got it. That subpoena, didn't that subpoena set the appearance

date to be January 9 th?

FERREIRA: 9th, right.

FORTE: Now he went there, and I understand to mean that transcript that basically

you were attempting to get Atwal's tape admitted into evidence regarding the

wiretap that he had with him in 2013.

S2 03:39 FERREIRA: Right.

5103:40 FORTE: Right, but the judge says, you know, no, that's not gonna happen at this time.

But she did say, you know, if this becomes relevant in the future—

S2 03:47 FERREIRA: Right, exactly.

Si 03:49 FORTE: --then it be [crosstalk] that's right so far?

S2 03:50 FERREIRA: Yes.

51 03:51 FORTE: What I'm trying to do is let you know I have studied the case.

52 03:55 FERREIRA: Yes.

Si 03:55 FORTE: This is why I'm attempting to get an attorney but we go from having a law

and motions attorney, with these I got to say, I'm not an attorney, but I have not seen

too many nor the counsels that I've seen, have seen any unreported minute orders as

we've been getting from Judge Zuniga, that not only are somewhat of an anomaly,

but they're conflicting. First, she says make a law and motion...

52 04:22 FERREIRA: So just to clear that right up--

5104:24 FORTE: Okay.

52 04:25 FERREIRA: --the original wiretap that you were captured on, that you received notice

you were captured on was excluded at this time, but that at any time we can bring it

back before the court to consider, if a witness should testify that leads us to believe

that it becomes relevant, and but that single issue is exclusive, mutually exclusive

from the fact that, that you were involved in the political action committee and so on.

And that information's still relevant. Now it may be that you're called just to testify to

that fact and not the wiretap because really the wiretap is something I can get in

through Jacobson anyway. I don't actually need you for that. Your, your sole purpose

would be really related to your relationship with Mr. Carson on that issue, on political

action committee and the formation of that. And then to rebut, okay on the

secondary issue. His defense is in fact that we targeted him because of your case.

5102:49

S3 02:51

Si. 02:52

S3 02:58

Si 02:58

S2 03:24

Si 03:25

TranscribeMe Ey 2

Transcribe e' that that case came out hung jury, that Birgit (Fladager) decided not to go forward with it, blah, blah, blah. So, in rebuttal, you may actually be called there and you're on their witness list as well because of that.

S3 05:44 FORTE: That's what we know. Excuse me, okay--

S4 05:45 BUNCH: I did want to input this too. It's not just Mr. Carson. It's Mr. Baljit Atwal too.

52 05:51 FERREIRA: Right.

54 05:51 BUNCH: Which they have somewhat-- they're unified, but somewhat different defenses, right?

Si 05:56 FORTE: Yes, and [inaudible] referred to the point that he's asked for a copy of subpoena upon the date he was supposed to show up. He did. Now according to Carmen, the judge said, okay, that's going to be excluded but, and I think, you had said, well Judge Zuniga didn't want to bring witness to that as we need them. And she said something along the lines of no, that's not the way we're going to do it. What

we're going to do is you got to bring him back and I'll give him the dates when they're supposed to appear, or thereabouts, which by the way I think is a pretty rough deal

for you. You were just, just off the cuff, because I think that trying to have you

pigeonhole your witnesses in in advance of all this is pretty difficult.

S4 06:37 BUNCH: It's very difficult.

Si 06:38 FORTE: Very-- well yeah.

S2 06:39 FERREIRA: So, the issue comes down to that he was ordered back for a second date.

Si 06:43 FORTE: Right.

S2 06:43 FERREIRA: And agreed to be put on standby so he didn't have to go to the hearing.

51 06:46 FORTE: See that-- see what happened was that second date that he was supposed to go back for, I think it was on the 19th or something there about is, that he had contacted and spoke to, Mr. Jacobson who said--


S1 06:59 FORTE: —no, you don't need to come back. So he didn't go back. Now after that time-

S2 07:03 FERREIRA: Right, because he had agreed, allegedly, that he had agreed to be on telephone standby so--

S1 07:09 FORTE: See, he didn't know anything about this.

52 07:10 FERREIRA: Yeah.

Si 07:11 FORTE: He, have you ever anything about that?

S3 07:12 SABATINO: No, it's the first I heard of it.

51 07:15 FORTE: The first--

52 07:16 FERREIRA: You know, what and if you want to contest that, that's completely up to you. We'll just get you re-subpoenaed, you're not exactly hard to find, Mr. Sabatino.

5107:22 FORTE: Well you know--

S2 07:23 FERREIRA: We see you everywhere, so you know--

TranscribeMe 3

Transcribe

S1 07:25 FORTE: Well, you know, I'm trying to understand this. So now we have this open- ended be on standby according to some type of a telephone agreement that he had entered into with Jacobson where Jacobson said you don't have to come back. And did Jacobson didn't communicate that to the judge on the hearing of the 19th. See because what Carmen has been precluded from doing is getting copies of his transcripts. The matters that don't pertain to witnesses. They pertain to what would be, in some ways, exparte communications technically between yourselves and everybody concerning his alleged, A) obstruction of justice conduct of a letter that is given to the judge by a juror. Now, that's when the judge states on record that would be a clear obstruction of justice blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, that doesn't send him the minute order telling him anything about it---

52 08:23 FERREIRA: He was supposed to be served by the court on regarding that issue. That's not-- doesn't have anything to do with me.

Si 08:29 FORTE: Well you see, I know it doesn't have to do with you--

S2 08:31 FERREIRA: It doesn't come from me. That comes from the court, and any investigation into any juror misconduct is done by the court, not us.

Si 08:38 FORTE: Well. You know, I think the bottom line--

S2 08:39 FERREIRA: So, we're not part of that--

51 08:42 FORTE: Well, and, and I see it, first of all, obviously it didn't raise itself ...


Si 08:45 FORTE: ...to a level the jury should be disqualified, one....


Si 08:47 FORTE: Number two, it didn't rise to a level that there was any substantial evidence-- that didn't happen.

S2 08:54 FERREIRA: Actually, you know what, I don't even want to discuss this with you because it's not my investigation, and I'm not really at liberty discussing any of these issues with you, so--

5109:02 FORTE: See that-- see, see that's what needed to be clarified.

S2 09:04 FERREIRA: All we need to talk about is his subpoena and whether he's gonna quash the subpoena or whether he's going to go forward with that or whether we can make an agreement on like I just discussed with you and put out on the table for you to decide. So that's the only thing. Okay.

51 09:21 FORTE: Well you see. Yeah, I understand it's your only thing from your side.


Si 09:25 FORTE: But you see in this motion that Carmen had filed, what he looks to see is, is that the statement by, by Zuniga--

S2 09:34 FERREIRA: But I can't-- I can't discuss any of that.

Si 09:36 FORTE: Oh, I know you're not--

S2 09:38 FERREIRA: And I-- and I'm not going to, so I don't even want to talk about it. TranscribeMe

C-)(_ 4

Transcribe

Si 09:39 FORTE: No, no, no. I-- no, you, you don't have to say a word about it.

S3 09:43 SABATINO: Why--

S109:44 FORTE: Excuse me?

53 09:44 SABATINO: --are we talking without the lawyer here anyway.

Si 09:46 FORTE: Wait what?

53 09:48 SABATINO: Why are we talking now rather than this afternoon?

51 09:49 FORTE: Well because you don't need-- because you do not need an attorney to talk

about--

S2 09:52 FERREIRA: I can't-- I'm not available this afternoon. I have a motion that I have to

follow.

S3 09:55 BUNCH: Hey, Carmen, -- the only question is, is will you be agreeable to those

conditions where--

51 10:00 FORTE: Well first you only-- let me make something clear. Carmen, you knew we were gonna be here without Larry and we had already said that. We discussed that

this is the best way at this time to do it, with the idea that now Larry has a better idea, and what I said before, what Marlisa's proposing, in context seems reasonable.

This is what I suggested before, alright? But the side issue or main issue also Carmen's concerned about is the allegation of this criminal conduct by formulating a PAC committee which the defensive attorneys argued that's not the case. Because there's no overtures of criminal prosecution of Carmen at this time, correct? There's no--

52 10:45 FERREIRA: First of all, that occurred in 2014. There's a statute of limitations people.

53 10:51 FORTE: Sure, sure.

S2 10:51 FERREIRA: You're long past that.

Si 10:52 FORTE: Yeah, of course.

S2 10:52 FERREIRA: So--

53 10:53 SABATINO: Well, this goes back all the way to 2006.

52 10:56 FERREIRA: I wouldn't-- I wouldn't worry about that.

Si 10:57 FORTE: At this time, I think what we should do is arrange that we have Larry Cole, I think it'd be a good time to go to him and probably get Larry involved, if he wants to take the case. Okay, this is a thing that I was going through and downloading Larry

about this morning. I know Larry. I've known Larry for a few years. I think that, he says he's known you. I think.

S2 11:17

S1 11:19

S2 11:20

Si 11:21

FERREIRA: Yes, I know him very well.

FORTE: Okay, and you have no problem working with Larry.

FERREIRA: He's a lovely man.

FORTE: Okay. There you go. I told Carmen in my estimations, he's one of the better criminal attorneys here in Modesto. He's had some health issues. So anyway, I can

talk to Larry, but he would want to entertain representation. He wants to get a continuance of this matter conducted the 22nd and if you guys could reach a written

TranscribeMe 5

Transcribe

S2 11:54

S1 12:15

S2 12:16

S1 12:21

S2 12:22

S1 12:25

S2 12:26

stipulation and we'd put this before the court that would give enough time to get this thing settled probably by-- I'd say by the end of this week.

FERREIRA: So here's your issues. Let me put them out there for you so you understand. The judges put this time aside for this issue. And she's gonna want to

know tomorrow morning whether or not we worked it out or not because if we don't need to put that aside for Friday, then we're gonna handle some other issues that are

pending and pressing that she needs to deal with.

FORTE: Okay.

FERREIRA: So she's gonna ask me first thing tomorrow and I'm, I'm happy to give you guys time to talk to Larry. I'm not saying that.

FORTE: Sure.

FERREIRA: But she's gonna need to know tomorrow whether you were able to work it

out or not.

FORTE: Sure.

FERREIRA: If we're able to work it out, fabulous. Have Larry contact me or you can continue to email me, whatever you like to do. Let me know whether the, uh,

conditions we set forth for you are, acceptable. If, if we're not or you have some other concerns, you're welcome to communicate, continue to communicate with me, but otherwise I would have Larry call me as well after you have a chance to talk to him, say this is where we are with it. These are our concerns, discuss it. Have him call me and let me know if it's gonna work out or not so I can at least let the judge know tomorrow what the status is.

S1 13:02 FORTE: Yeah. Yeah, because yeah.

S2 13:03 FERREIRA: 'Cause that's her big thing, she needs to know what's going on.

S1 13:06 FORTE: Yeah, sure.

S2 13:07 FERREIRA: Now if you need a continuance because you have to-- this pursuit you want to continue to pursue, I'm not gonna to oppose you on a continuance, you know, I, I don't--

51 13:17 FORTE: I'm sorry, I didn't understand--

S2 13:19 FERREIRA: I'm not gonna not agree to a continuance, I will.

Si 13:22 FORTE: Good.

52 13:22 FERREIRA: I will agree to a continuance.

Si 13:24 FORTE: Great.

S2 13:25 FERREIRA: But you have to understand, she's keeping the jury out to deal with these very ministerial issues, and that's wasting court days and wasting--

S1 13:35 FORTE: Of course, yeah.

S2 13:36 FERREIRA: --the jury's time.

S1 13:37 FORTE: And that's what he doesn't want to do. He, he doesn't want to be--

S2 13:39 FERREIRA: So, let's hopefully work it out--

TranscribeMe

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Transcribe •

S1 13:40

FORTE: Let me just say--

52 13:41

FERREIRA: —so that we can just move forward with the issues.

S1 13:43

FORTE: And let me just add this. I'm gonna contact Larry as soon as I leave here.

S2 13:47

FERREIRA: Okay.

S1 13:48 FORTE: I'll speak to him.

S2 13:49 FERREIRA: Great.

Si 13:49 FORTE: The issue I know that Larry's gonna have, and I think prudence dictates I think

that were going to go ahead and contact the clerk's office at least to file a

rudimentary request for a continuance based upon the idea that he hasn't had an attorney come in, we've been trying to get this done since the 8th. For some reason,

the clerks weren't very cooperative and also, do you actually, are you working off of a filed declaration and filed document of the motion, because they did not, you know, didn't accept those for filing from Carmen at first...and we went this rodeo was

unbelievable.

S2 14:24

S1 14:27

S2 14:28

S1 14:29

S2 14:52

S1 14:53

S2 14:54

FERREIRA: We filed an opposition yes.

FORTE: Yeah, I know you filed an opposition.

FERREIRA: Right.

FORTE: But you see, those documents were rejected for filing on the 23rd and went through this process where "Well no, you have got to file a writ." And that's the other

thing. Judge Zuniga said, first of all, it had to be heard by another judge beside herself, one. Then she says it's got to be filed as a writ, two. Then all of a sudden,

without any other minute orders, the clerk set the hearing for-

FERREIRA: I don't know who's telling you all that.

FORTE: --the 22nd. The court.

FERREIRA: It-- so you, you filed your motion and then we filed an opposition and she set it, so I don't know where you're getting all this, where that's coming from.

S1 15:03 FORTE: Do you understand what I'm talking about.

52 15:04 FERREIRA: But are you getting that from clerks because that's not what's happening--

S3 15:05 SABATINO: Signed by Zuniga....

54 15:06 BUNCH: I understand what you're saying but I don't know what you're saying.

S1 15:09 FORTE: Okay, well I know here's, here's--

S2 15:09 FERREIRA: Did you bring them with you? Can I look at them really quick?

S1 15:12 FORTE: They were inside the motion, but I'll email them over to you.

5215:14 FERREIRA: Yeah.

TranscribeMe 7

Transcribe ,e

Si 15:15 FORTE: You have-- you have a--

S2 15:15 FERREIRA: Yeah, scan them and send them over to me too.

S1 15:16 FORTE: You, you have an unreported minute order for a--

S1 15:23 FERREIRA: Excuse me.

S2 15:25 FORTE: An unreported minute order?

53 15:26 SABATINO: Do you know what that is?

5215:28 An unreported minute order? Yeah, it's when the judge tells the clerk to, to issue

something and it's not on the record.

Si 15:32 FORTE: Yeah.

S2 15:32 FERREIRA: That happens all the time.

51 15:33 FORTE: Yeah, the only thing is the oddity about that is anytime a court order is

issued, it has to be reported and has to be done that way...[crosstalk].

52 15:38 FERREIRA: No, it does not. That's not true.

S1 15:41 FORTE: Well if those are reported minute orders [inaudible].

S2 15:46 FERREIRA: But I'm not-- I-- yeah, I don't want to get into it.

S1 15:47 FORTE: Yeah, we're not gonna get at it. What I'm saying is the first minute order on--

S2 15:48 FERREIRA: I don't want to get into that with you on that just saying it doesn't happen.

S1 15:50 FORTE: --May filed May the 10th is an order signed by judge Zuniga on May the 11th,

okay. That is the order telling him he needs to file a proper motion before and which would be heard by another judge besides her.

5216:10 FERREIRA: I don't know why all of that happened, but the only issue really pending

right now is whether or not we're gonna reach an agreement before Friday and then whether you're gonna continue or not.

S1 16:19 FORTE: Well, wait, I understand. No, there's procedural issues here that have a problem because then she's--

S2 16:24 FERREIRA: But I-- that's not for me, that's something you have to take up with the court.

S1 16:28 FORTE: If you-- it, it will be if we have to go farther than this because right now.

S2 16:33 FERREIRA: Okay, well let's cross that bridge when we get there.

Si 16:35 FORTE: We're there now. Because then we have a minute order unreported of her going ahead and ordering that a writ had to be filed. Now without any other

contradicting order of that, we have Orlando ....

S2 16:51 FERREIRA: I don't mean to cut you off but my time is really short today and these are issues you need to talk with Larry.

S1 16:57

FORTE: Well let's-- I'll just finish the last one.

S2 16:59 FERREIRA: Yeah.

TranscribeMe 8

Transcribe

S1 16:59 FORTE: Orlando then goes and sets a hearing for June the 22nd without any order by

the judge saying not to take it up on a writ. That's a problem.

54 17:09 BUNCH: Mr. Forte, so at the end of the day, what is Mr. Sabatino trying to

accomplish? What are-- okay, so if we're agreeing that he could be in there, right,

during testimony, we're trying to meet him in the middle, what-- at the end of the

day, what is he trying to accomplish?

Si 17:24 FORTE: Okay, what he's trying to accomplish is something that I don't think you

people would agree to.

S4 17:27 BUNCH: Well, he can ask.

Si 17:29 FORTE: And that is this, he feels that he's been wrongly accused of criminal conduct

by your offices again. He feels that Jacobson was improperly dealing with him and he

feels that the accusations of the matter of the jury tampering is a reason--

52 17:46 FERREIRA/BUNCH [cross talk]: That isn't us.

54 17:48 BUNCH: We're not even investigating.

S2 17:48 FERREIRA: That issue was brought up by the juror to the court. We had nothing to do

with that.

S4 17:52 BUNCH: We had nothing. So, we're-- so we're--

51 17:54 FORTE: There's bad blood between you guys. There's no doubt about it.

S4 17:56 BUNCH/FERREIRA: [crosstalk] Not us--

52 17:56 FERREIRA: Not us. I don't have any bad blood with Mr. Sabatino. I used to hang out

with him actually. He probably doesn't even remember that but-- [laughs]

S3 18:03 SABATINO: Well I do.

S2 18:03 FERREIRA: When, when he was the mayor and he used to come to, uh, non-profit

things for the Sund -Carrington Foundation, I would see him. He probably doesn't remember that. But I've never had any problems with Mr. Sabatino. So--

S1 18:17

FORTE: [laughs] Well there you go!

S3 18:19

SABATINO: Well.

S2 18:19

FERREIRA: --in terms of the wrongdoing and the accusations, the issue with the juror.

Let me explain how that happened. Juror came in, provided a letter to the court

about the accusation or allegation. The court read it, informed the attorneys, and the

court's the one who conducts an investigation. She called the juror in, had contact

with the juror about what happened, how does he feel about that? Does he still, uh,

think he can be fair, blah, blah, blah. Excuse me, no one else questioned the juror, no

one else did anything about it. And that was the end of that.

S1 18:55 FORTE: Thank you. See that is helpful see because it gets you (Carmen) better

background.

S2 18:59 FERREIRA: It doesn't come from us. The only thing that happened at the very end of

all of that was he had taken a screenshot of the co-- the alleged communication--

51 19:08 FORTE: Okay.

TranscribeMe

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S2 19:09 FERREIRA: --and we asked him to please preserve that for the future if there was ever

a need for it.

S1 19:13 FORTE: Okay, see that--

52 19:14 FERREIRA: So there's no--

S1 19:16 FORTE: See that's the kind of--

S2 19:15 FERREIRA: --there's no pending case in my office.

Si 19:17 FORTE: Yeah, yeah.

S2 19:19 FERREIRA: That's fine. It wasn't brought up by me.

S1 19:19 FORTE: A screenshot.

53 19:23 SABATINO: A screenshot?

S1 19:25 FORTE: But he not-- go ahead.

52 19:26 FERREIRA: That's what he said.

S1 19:27 FORTE: Carmen---

S3 19:30 SABATINO: [cross talk, inaudible] .... whoever he is, I'm sorry.

51 19:31 FORTE: Carmen, without your attorney you should go ahead and be as quiet as you

possibly can.

53 19:39 SABATINO: I understand.

S2 19:40 FERREIRA: The point of all this—

S1 19:40 FORTE: Because I got to tell you something.

S2 19:42 FERREIRA: All right, well— all right timeout, timeout, timeout. The point of all of that

is it really doesn't have anything to do with us right now at this point. The only issue

pending with us is whether we, Mr. Sabatino and myself, can work out an agreement on this motion to quash the subpoena issue. So, let's just stick with that. So, if you guys-- if you need to speak with Larry, I am all for that. Please do. Let him know what I said about, hey, he can be in there. If there's a witness we perceive to be, uh, a part of the political vendetta defense group, we'll approach him, give notice, and he'll have to voluntarily absence himself at that time, and we're all good. Then we don't have to file anything more. We don't have to do anything more.

Si 20:26 FORTE: And Larry mentioned, you know, maybe an offer of proof.

54 20:29 BUNCH: Do you understand that the, the defense identifies that was part of their defense? So--

S3 20:36 SABATINO: What?

S4 20:36 BUNCH: About the vendetta with you and all that, that's, that's identified in their

opening statements. So, we have even if we're not allowed to put something in our case in chief, we can do it as a rebuttal witness. So, we have to-- so we have to go with that, right? I mean, that's the only way we could to rebut what they're saying...

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51 20:38 FORTE: [inaudible] If they say it.

S4 20:40 BUNCH: If they say it at the end of the day. Does that make sense, Carmen?

What can we do to calm-- what can we do to help you out, to have you achieve what

we're trying to do?

53 21:09 SABATINO: I want to talk Larry.

S2 21:10 FERREIRA: Okay. All right. You guys take this back to Larry today. Somebody--

S1 21:15 FORTE: Well we're gonna--

S2 21:16 FERREIRA: --either have him call me or you send an email or something.

Si 21:16 FORTE: --I'm gonna speak with Larry. There are a couple of other attorneys that I've

been speaking with. I think I explained my role in [crosstalk]--

S2 21:22 FERREIRA: Who's that?

Si 21:23 FORTE: Is that-- one is Joanne Kingston and another one is one I would rather not go

ahead and mention at this time.

52 21:32 FERREIRA: Okay, well, you have my emails--

51 21:34 FORTE: Yes.

S2 21:35 FERREIRA: --so have that person email and make sure they identify themselves as having been designated by you to communicate with me right in the beginning. 'Cause otherwise I get into talking, to somebody--

54 21:47 BUNCH: Do you want to CC me, 'cause Ms. Ferreira, CC me on this too.

S1 21:51 FORTE: Okay.

54 21:51 BUNCH: 'Cause she's extremely busy.

S1 21:54 FORTE: Yeah, I have been doing this.

S4 21:54 BUNCH: I keep her straight.

51 21:56 FORTE: Okay that's okay. This is good. You know, I wouldn't want to be disturbed

during the trial okay. I mean, I'm not an attorney....

52 22:03 FERREIRA: We just have a deadline today though. We have to get something filed on for another issue so--

51 22:06 FORTE: ...but additionally, I will say, that I trialed an eight-day jury trial before Federal Judge Anthony Ishii and obtained a unanimous jury verdict with punitive damages.

52 22:11 FERREIRA: Wow! Good for you. All right. Do you have any other questions?

51 22:14 FORTE: They tell me it was the first time an in pro per did so in Fed Court. It was against Los Banos ex-Mayor Tommy Jones [crosstalk].

S3 22:14 SABATINO: So, as of now, you would not oppose a continuance?

52 22:23 FERREIRA: Correct.

S3 22:24 SABATINO: She won't oppose a continuance.

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Si 22:25 FORTE: No, [inaudible].

54 22:32

BUNCH: Do you know the sooner we can resolve this the sooner you can be back in

Si 22:38

S3 22:40

52 22:43

the courtroom. That's what I'm trying to say.

FORTE: A soon as he's not having to pay attorney's fees, Carmen, as you know this we'll discuss it all right.

SABATINO: Oh okay.

FERREIRA: Okay. All right. We're gonna leave you two to discuss it.

Si 22:45 FORTE: Yeah and as far as a continuance, could you arrange us for that easily if we sent you the information regarding Larry and all that stuff, or you want me to do that?

52 22:54 FERREIRA: Well send me the information-- somebody needs to communicate with me today so I know what's going on.

S1 22:58 FORTE: I have that. I'm just--

52 23:01 FERREIRA: Okay? And preferably if you hire Larry, Larry, otherwise Mr. Sabatino should, uh, go ahead and contact me and let me know. I'm not-- but you will have to come in on Friday to request the continuance and then I will, uh, have no objections.

51 23:16 FORTE: On Friday. Is this the 22nd are we on Friday?

S3 23:18 SABATINO: Yeah.

S2 23:18 FERREIRA: Yes.

Si 23:20 FORTE: Well as I said, you'll have communications. Those in large part is simply me going in and communicating with Carmen directly. Okay and I'm gonna get Larry to try and get involved here.

S2 23:32 FERREIRA: Okay.

51 23:33 FORTE: Hopefully by the end of the day, okay?

52 23:34 FERREIRA: Thank you.

S4 23:35 BUNCH: Hey thanks.

S3 23:35 SABATINO: Thank you.

51 23:36 FORTE: Good meeting.

S2 23:36 FERREIRA: Good to see you guys.

53 23:37 BUNCH: Thank you.

S2 23:37 FERREIRA: Take care, very nice to meet you.

51 23:38 FORTE: You too.

S2 23:39 FERREIRA: Take care of yourselves and we will look forward to, uh, seeing what you have to say.

Si 23:43 FORTE: The recorders going off. I imagine your offices have better recording equipment than mine do. [laughs]

52 23:47 FERREIRA: All right. Have a good day.

TranscribeMe

Lk- 2 12

14. The Court apologizes for any confusion it may have caused.

Dated: May 24, 2018

ZU

JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR ART

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

STANISLAUS COUNTY

DATE: May 24, 2018

JUDGE: Barbara Ann Zaiga

PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF

CALIFORNIA,

Plaintiff,

vs.

FRANK CLIFFORD CARSON, et al.

Defendants.

DEPARTMENT: 2

CLERK: Danielle Santos

REPORTER: None

DOCKET: 1490969

CHIEF DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY:

MARLISA A. FERREIRA

DEFENSE COUNSEL:

PRECILIANO MARTINEZ, et al.

Appearances: None

UNREPORTED MINUTE ORDER

1. The Court needs to clarify its previous order with respect to Mr. Sabatino having access

to the trial transcripts in the above case.

2. A motion needs to be filed to contest the Court's ruling. However, review of the Court's

ruling must be by way of writ to the Fifth District Court of Appeal.

_ _ UNREPORTED MINUTE ORDER - #1490969

Page 1

Ey/.1/1-y- 3

PROOF OF SERVICE BY MAIL [CCP § 1013(A)31

STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) SS

COUNTY OF STANISLAUS )

I am over the age of 18 years and employed by the Superior Court of the State of California, County of Stanislaus, and not a party to the within action. I certify that I served a copy of the attached UNREPORTED MINUTE ORDER DATED May 24, 2018 by placing said copy in an envelope addressed to the following:

CARMEN SABATINO 421 MCHENRY AVE. MODESTO, CA 95354

Said envelope was then sealed and postage thereon fully prepaid, and thereafter was on MAY 24, 2018, deposited in the United States mail at Modesto, California. That there is delivery service by United States mail at the place so addressed, or regular communication by United States mail between the place of mailing and the place so addressed.

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.

Executed on MAY 24, 2018 at Modesto, California.

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF STANISLAUS

By Daid.1.1 DANIELLE SANTOS, Deputy Clerk

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PROOF OF SERVICE

STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) SS.

COUNTY OF STANISLAUS)

I, the undersigned, declare that I am employed in the County of Stanislaus, State of California; I am over the age of 18 years and not a party to the within action; my business address is 343() Tully Rd., St. 20-429, Modesto, CA 95350.

On July 11th 2018, I served the following documents:

[AMENDED] DECLARATION OF CARMEN SABATINO IN SUPPORT OF REPLY TO THE PEOPLE'S OPPOSITION TO CARMEN SABATINO'S REQUESTING CLARIFICATION OF JUDGE ZUNIGA'S "UNREPORTED MINUTE ORDER" SIGNED MAY 11TH, 2018 (FILED MAY 10TH, 2018) AND REQUEST TO BE REMOVED FROM WITNESS LIST AND REQUEST TO QUASH SUBPOENA.

depositing the sealed envelope(s) with the United States Postal Service with postage fully prepaid, addressed as follows:

Marlisa Ferreira Preciliano Martinez, Esq.

District Attorney's Office Law Office of Preciliano

County of Stanislaus Martinez

832 12th Street, Suite 300

1120 — 14th Street, Suite 5

Jai Manhar Gohel, Esq.

94109

819 Eddy Streret San Francisco, CA

Modesto, CA 95354

Modesto, CA 95354

Hans Hjertonosson, Esq. Mark Dunbar (courtesy copy) Law Offices of Grisez, Opinion Editor Orenstein & Hertle

Modesto Bee 724 —10` h Street

948 11th St. Suite 300 Modesto, CA Modesto, CA 95354

95352

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct and that this declaration was executed on July 11th 2018 at Modesto, California, 95356.

Eileen Forte

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