A One on One Interview with Dr. Robert Rowen

By Dr. Joseph Mercola

DM:Dr. Joseph Mercola

RR: Dr. Robert Rowen

Introduction:

DM: Welcome, everyone. This is Dr. Mercola. Today were joined by Dr. Robert Rowen,

who is a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the very prestigious Johns Hopkins University. Its

kind of way up there with Harvard, so congratulations on that prestigious achievement.

He also went to the University of California in San Francisco.

Youre board-certified in family practice and emergency medicine, and the American

Board of Clinical and Metal Toxicology. You became involved in complementary or

integrative medicine since 1983, which is quite a while. Youre coming up on 30 years.

You got me beaten by about seven years, so congratulations on that.

You also migrated from your state of California up to Alaska and did some interesting

work up there. Youre known as the Father of Medical Freedom in one of the

pioneering states of freedom, which is Alaska. What you did was help the nations first

statutory protection for natural medicine in 1990.

Now, you are serving a variety of functions. Youre the editor-in-chief of Second

Opinion, which is a major printed national newsletter, and you live and work in Santa

Rosa. Are you still seeing patients at this point?

RR: Yes.

DM:Okay. Great, so youre doing it all. I actually had to stop seeing patients about five

years ago. Congratulations for still being inthethickofit. Can you discuss what motivated

you to start med school? Its because its different for everyone. Most people at least

in my experience in med school the focus was on treating disease.

RR: [Laughs]

DM:It really, certainly wasnt on achieving health and wellness. I was kind of looked at

as wacko there for trying to get people well. I mean, its just like What are you here

for? But I want to hear what your experiences were and what motivated your to go in

there and make the transition. Were you motivated before you went to school, or is this

something like most people who go to traditional, conventional medical school and

migrating into natural therapies afterwards? What was your journey?

RR: I was motivated before. Ill explain, but just one small correction. I was certified and

recertified by both the American Boards of Family Practice and Emergency Medicine,

but those certifications have lapsed because I have not redone the exam, because I

dont think that theyre pertinent or relevant to what Im doing today.

DM:Sure. I couldnt agree more.

RR: Thank you. The reason why I got those certifications both is because it was very

hard for the orthodox guys to shut me down and say I didnt have credentials.

I got interested in medicine probably in my first year to second year of college. Before

then, I had wanted to be a dentist, believe it or not.But I had a love for the environment.

After my first year of college at Johns Hopkins and so many guys wanted to go to

Johns Hopkins Medical School I decided that Id rather be a physician, because Id

have more variety in my life. I thought Id go out and live in the woods and trade my

services for a chicken or some vegetables.

DM:Yeah.

RR: It didnt quite go that way.

DM:Youre a pretty hardcore survivalist.

RR: [Laughs] Yeah. But I remained with the love for the environment, which played out

in medical school, because I did get in to UC, San Francisco, which is considered a

really good school. At the end of my third year at medical school, I got actually quite

depressed, and I almost quit, because I was participating in the treatment of patients

that to me was abhorrent.

For example, people came in to be evaluated for high blood pressure, and they got

IDPs and one study after another, and it didnt amount to a [inaudible 3:55] in their

outcome.They still got the same petrochemical pharmaceutical for that or anything else

they came in for. I came to see that what we were doing for our patients was the same

type of chemical pollution that we were doing to the planet. I almost quit.

But after three years of investment, I decided that I ought to play this out. I stayed in. I

finished. I went on and did residency, training, and got certified. But I always kept my

mind open to other things other than giving people some type of chemical to suppress

the symptom.

DM:What motivated you to migrate up to Alaska? Many people view California as one of

the ideal environments to live in. Alaska is certainly beautiful, pristine, and has a lot of

wildlife, but its a little bit more harsh conditions, so why did you move up there and

practice for a while?

RR: I sponsored myself in medical school by taking a scholarship from the U.S. Public

Health Service. In return, I had to serve sometime in the public health service, which I

did at the Gallup Indian Medical Center in New Mexico. But I left after one year to finish

residency. After that I had to go back in the service, and instead of going back to Gallup,

I decided for the wild adventure of going to Alaska. Thats where I ended up. I loved

what I did. I stayed there for four years in the service in Anchorage.

Then when my practice interest changed to go into alternative medicine, and while the

patients loved it, the Indian patients loved it, my colleagues thought I turned into a

quack. I decided that Id better leave and go out on my own. I started a private practice

in Anchorage in the middle of 1983.

DM:Okay. What motivated you to take an activist role and seek to pass a formal

legislation to protect people physicians primarily, and I guess maybe other healthcare

cliniciansmentioned in the extensive legislation that you catalyzed to allow a freedom

of practicing without recrimination by the local medical boards?

RR: Our medical board was halfway decent. In fact, the only complaint I have had at the

time was that Medicare believe it or not complained I was using alternative medicine

on patients, and they turned in my name to the board. The board looked at what I was

doing, and because there was no injury and the patients hadnt complained, they

actually looked the other way. They said, No problem here. But I realized that it was a

major problem, because Medicare was complaining, and I was involved with Medicare

at that time.

But the real concern came when friends of mine in Colorado and California actually lost

their licenses for doing the same thing that I was doing. In other words, patients were

feeling a lot better getting vitamin B12 injections, even though their levels were in the

reference range, or they were getting thyroid even though their levels are in the

reference range. Today we know thats good medicine. We know that it has been

proven, but back then the idiots-in-charge didnt, so they took their licenses.

I said, This is really a problem. Alternative medicines getting beat up around the

country, and I have the opportunity here in Alaska to do something good. I was a big

fish in a small pond. Yes, Alaska is big geographically, but its population was small, and

half the population was in Anchorage where I was, so I had direct access to half the

population.

One of my patients was a big-time senator, and I asked him about this. He said he

would be willing to sponsor the legislation, so he did. That was 1989, but it was the end

of session and it went nowhere. We decided to wait until the following year.

The following year, 1990, early in the session I went to my local representatives, who

liked the idea. They put it in, and it was immediately attacked by the medical mob. I

called at the medical mob, because it went through all the committees everywhere, and

then it was stripped out by a committee that had nothing to do with the legislation at all.

It was stripped out by some committee where a doctor was sitting. Actually a

representative or they were in my opinion sold out to the Cancer Society. Thats my

opinion.

DM:Sure.

RR: They stripped it out, and then we had a major fight to get it put back in on the floor

of the Alaska legislature. That was the only place it can get back in. I went on radio in

Anchorage day after day. I called out my patients. This was 1990, before the Internet,

so radio and calls did it. Believe it or not, my representatives told me that they got more

calls on this medical freedom issue than any other issue that they had seen to date

since the Vietnam War.

DM:The power of the media.

RR: Yeah, and radio. The media actually helped because some local medical mob

brought in John Renner, who was a major quack buster to bake me face to face. They

actually the medical industry had allowed me to speak before them, but three

members quit saying, With Rowen coming to speak, hes a quack, were quitting. So,

without even telling me that they wanted to disinvite me, they axed the program and

then reinstated it as a John Renner Face-Off Debate without telling me.

I said, Ill do it. This made the press. The public was excluded, and because I was

involved with mercury and amalgam, they invited the dental society. It became the first-

ever joint meeting from the dental society and the medical society.

Renner spoke on quackery. I presented science on amalgam and mercury, and mercury

being released from the amalgam.

[----- 10:00 -----]

I had several people approach me after that meeting on both sides of the aisle, who

thought that I was a quack, and they said, Rowan, you were incredibly impressive.

Renner was a dunce. They told me this. Even the guys who were attacking me told me

this.

The only thing Renner could do at that point was to try and attack the source of the

information I had. The medical mob took his information and voted voted, mind you

that for anyone to recommend mercury come out of the mouth is committing fraud and

unethical conduct. They also voted that chelation therapy for anything other than heavy

metal toxicology was fraud and therefore unethical. They thought that they could get my

license that way, by unethical conduct.

In the meantime, this had made the press, and I was on the radio. We got our legislation

back in on the Florida House. It passed. Then my patient-senator guided it through the

senate unscathed, and it was attached to a bill that the medical board had wanted. The

medical board interestingly remained neutral on it. They didnt care because the bill

simply said, The board shall not face finding the professional incompetence solely on a

basis that a licensees practice is unconventional or experimental in the absence of

demonstrable, physical harm to a patient. Its simple enough.

DM:Sure.

RR: I was actually held to a higher standard than the orthodox guys. They could harm

people all the time.

DM:Not that they could, they do! [Laughs]

RR: [Laughs] Thats right. They do harm people all the time, and they dont get nailed. I

said, Okay, I wont harm somebody. I actually authored that bill and guided it through.

We became the first state. Then I helped Governor Hickel get elected in 1992, and he

appointed me to a term on the medical board, which I became the first adult practitioner

of alternative medicine to service on a state medical board.

DM:Congratulations![Laughs]

RR: Thanks.

DM:Thats quite a feat.

RR: It was, because the medical mob bitterly opposed that in the legislature, too. It was

an out and out fight for confirmation. It was in the press. There were letters to the

editors on both sides. All the letters against our bill and my confirmation came from the

medical industry, and you can see that and who wrote it. All of the letters for me came

from the public. There were many more letters for me. The legislature confirmed me by

two votes.

DM: Wow, tremendous. How long did you wind up staying in Alaska? When did you

leave?

RR: I stayed in Alaska for 22 years. I left in 2001 when I married my wife, who lived and

worked in Santa Rosa, California. I came down here to join her, because I didnt think

shed make it through the Alaska winter.

DM:[Laughs] I would get back to legislation in a moment, but Im curious do you find it

healthier place to live in California than Alaska, or did the winters get to you?

RR: The winters didnt get to me. I loved it. Im an outdoors person. I love the cross-

country skiing, but they were long. California is healthier, because I have access to

extraordinarily high-quality organic food here thats grown locally.

DM:Thats definitely one of the keys to staying healthy. Its a high priority when Im

transitioning between locations myself. How many other states have been able topass

similar types of legislations based on your pioneering work in Alaska?

RR: Washington became the second, and I believe there were 14 or 15 other ones.But

in truth, its not working really well.

DM:Why is that?

RR: Because some of the states where it was passed with legislative intent to protect

what we call unconventional medicine (which we can define in a moment)some of

those medical boards say, While we cant punish them for doing unconventional

medicine, well rakethemoverthecoalsfor other things like recordkeeping or some other

minor infractions. A lot of the guys are on the ropes. This is happening in states like

North Carolina, Washington, and New York, even where bills have been passed.

DM:Interesting. What do you think the solution is to provide the freedom for

conventionally trained physicians who seek to integrate a natural model for their

patients?

RR: We absolutely need legislation first. In most states that have passed it, I think its

working. California passed it in 2003 or 2004 after I got here. I helped with that. Our

board, it seems to be working quite well, because I have had discussions with them

saying that they have taken the intent of protecting this medicine very seriously and may

have trained their field agents on it. Other states might not be so lucky. But thats the

first place to go educating the public that these therapies really do exist, and they

better lobby to protect their rights to it.

DM:Now, there is a group of individuals some of them are professional, some not

who in the past, and I think still to this date, are called the quack busters.But I think the

more current term is the skeptics. I guess it provides them with a more public health

role model to protect the public from people who want to practice snake oil medicine,

as they would call it. Im wondering if you can comment on your impression on the state

of their attacks on physicians who are seeking to integrate this type of model.

RR: They areself-proclaimed quack busters. I call them self-proclaimed, and they have

a website where they have listed their targets and they attack them. A lot of times, it has

nothing to do with the practice of medicine. Its about other aspects. Most of these

people, when it comes to getting involved in hearings or court, get destroyed, because

theyre coming from hearsays.Theyre saying theyre science, but when you get down to

the practice of medicine itself, and I mean whats called the scientific practice of

medicine

When I was going through this in late 1980s and 1990s, I had documents from the

Office of Technological Assessment that over 80 percent of what goes on in

conventional doctors offices is unscientific and unproven.But we know that today

because you see doctors writing on the records, Im going to give a trial of a particular

drug. Wheres the science in that? There isnt any.

The self-proclaimed quack busters are exactly that self-proclaimed. The one quack

buster that I faced directly on couldnt survive a debate with his target, the quack me.

DM:Thats interesting, because I have had my own challenges with that community.

They tend to target people who like myself have a particularly significant public

prominence and tend to proselytize this and share this information about how people

can take control of their health with simple practical strategies.

Theres this other model that you are kind of really pioneering or half-pioneering, which

is providing the freedom for physicians who clearly need to be part of that process.

Ideally, a person would be able to integrate a healthy lifestyle, and they wouldnt ever

need to see a health coach or a physician because theyre healthy. The body just self-

repairs, but as we know theres a different

Its the ideal situation. I think many people do achieve it. They have lived most of their

whole life without ever seeing a physician and are pretty darn healthy. But unfortunately,

thats not the majority of people. They need assistance to catalyze or at least coach

themselves off of the drugs that they have been prescribed, some specific interventions,

and answer questions, so theres certainly a role for the physicians.

RR: Joe, a couple of things. When I give talks and I dont recall that I did it at that

quack buster meeting one of the first things that I do is I hold this up. Its 100 dollar

bill, and I say to the audience, whether its conventional doctors, lay people, or

alternative doctors:If you can name me one synthetic petrochemical pharmaceutical

that cures any disease, and well leave out antibiotics for a moment because some

people will claim that they do, then Ill turn over this 100-dollar bill for you. No one to

date has been able to claim the bill.

Now, lets look at what we call orthodox medicine. Most of the drugs are classified into

antis: antihypertensive, anti-acid, anti-pain, analgesic, and immune suppressive which

is anti-immune. Theyre antis.

[----- 20:00 -----]

DM:Anti-cholesterol, antidepressant

RR: [Laughs]

DM:The anti-list goes on and on.

RR: It goes on and on, exactly. Think about this for a moment. I hope that your

listeners pay attention. Did God make us with a deficiency of any synthetic chemical

anti? I dont think so. To me, the whole foundation of health and treatment of problems

revolves around three basic things:(1) nutrition or malnutrition, in other words getting the

building blocks into your body that the body requires to stay healthy and to repair; (2)

elimination of toxins its the toxins that are inhibiting their body from repairing, so get

them out; and (3) stress.

DM:Dont ingest them.

RR: Dont ingest them.

DM:Or expose yourself to them.

RR: Exactly. The third is stress. People say to me, What about genetics? Genetics are

not one of the three major ones, unless you have something like Tay-Sachs disease or

Down syndrome thats an over-genetic disease.

Were finding out now that malnutrition, toxins, and stress play epigenetic roles on your

genes. Genes play much lesser role than we previously thought. Its nutrition, toxins,

and stress that are playing your genes. Its the three that I pay most attention to. Theres

not one of those three that synthetic petrochemical pharmaceutical satisfactorily

addresses.

DM:Interesting. Is this related to the three major causes of illness?

RR: Yes.

DM:Okay. I have an interesting comment on the 100-dollar bill that you have been

holding up. Unfortunately, I think were both in agreement that when you first started

holding it up, it had a little more value than it does today, and will continue to decline in

value as the Federal Reserve continues to inflate the economy with trillions of dollars on

their printing presses. My guess is that you have to hold a gold coin up at one ounce in

quantity. [Laughs]

RR: [Laughs]

DM:Youre pretty good there. Its a much better offer. It might be worth 10,000 dollars in

the not too distant future.

Let me just get back to the issues that were discussing. What do you believe that

people can do to assert their rights to choose how theyre going to take control of their

own health, especially if they dont live in one of the 14 or 15 states that you mentioned

that have this legislation that provides protection for the clinicians?

RR: I would say that the first place we should start with everything in the legal system

is our local level. The local level in the state would mean go into your state senator and

representative, who generally will have a much closer relationship with their natural

constituents meaning the voter than the U.S. senators and representatives. They

seem to represent industry. Im not going to say that state representatives dont, but you

usually can sit down and get in their office. That would be the first place to start. Meet

with them as a person, write them, and tell them you want to see legislation in your state

that literally protects your right to get natural therapies.

Ill give you an example for something, and I raised this mantra in California when I

testified on behalf of our medical freedom bill here. Im doing it again, because were

trying to get a bill in California that decriminalizes the natural treatment of cancer. Yes,

we have the medical freedom bill, but theres still a bill on the books here that if you

treat cancer with anything but chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery, its a crime.

Heres something for your viewers to think about. In California, a 13-year-old, minor

child female has more rights to go get an abortion without her parents knowledge or

consent than the adult parent at age 40 does to treat breast cancer in the privacy of her

doctors office. Does that make sense to you?

DM:Whats even more ludicrous, though, is that not only in California, but I think most

states if that 14-year-old you referenced had cancer and the parents selected to not

go to conventional model, not only would they forcibly take that child away from them

and give them therapy, but they would also be criminalized, and they would take all their

children away. I mean that has happened many times. What could be a more

outrageous abuse of justice than something like that? Its beyond the limitation of

freedom. Its just criminal.

RR: Yeah. To me, its criminal, too, because the state shouldnt be involved with that.

Years ago, we had common law in this country, and thats been supplanted by statutory

and admiralty law, which I dont want to get into here, but wed actually become property

of the state. Thats why the children can be taken away. A hundred years ago, that

wouldnt happen. The parent was responsible for the child. Now unfortunately, we have

surrendered our rights for protection, and we have gotten privileges, which can be taken

away. Our founders said that if you surrender your freedom for security, you will have

neither. Thats where we are today.

DM:Yeah. I think that was Ben Franklin.

RR: Yes.

DM:[Laughs] I really appreciate your efforts, because it seems that the inevitable

conclusion is that if youre in this field for a long enough time, youre ultimate course of

action is you almost need to invariably have a legislative action. You can train and

educate people to the ultimate end, and they know exactly what to do.But theyre not

going to be able to do it, because there are restrictions that prevent them from

implementing it.

RR: Theres a reason for that. I started wondering, Why is this? Im going to tell you

why, why theres very little freedom. I know that one of the questions you had for me

was the National Institutes of Health is saying that people are turning to alternative

medicine, because traditional medicine meaning orthodox medicine has become too

expensive.

I dont agree with that. I believe that people are turning to our form of medicine because

orthodox medicine has failed to heal. It costs bazillions. It empties their wallets. Then

after emptying their wallet and getting toxic side effects theyre not side effects at all,

theyre direct effects of the chemical treatment, theyre poor, its cost them a fortune,

and theyre worse off. I believe that millions of people are now turning to what we do,

because what we do supports the body to heal rather than suppress it with toxic drugs.

Lets take that now to why we have to be destroyed. If you have a product that is inferior

and doesnt work, what do you do to stay in business? What can you do if your product

is inferior? The way that you stay in business is to destroy the free market. If it was a

free market, youd go out of business, because your products inferior. What Pharma

has donebecause its products are inferior and damagedis its turned to buying the

government literally buying it and buying the press, mainly the journals, and turning

to get into a monopoly. Thats how this has happened.

All Im asking for is a truly free marketplace. Pharma can exist. Fine, do your thing. If

you have something that works better than me, play it out in the marketplace.\But I

should be able to do my thing, too.

DM:I couldnt agree more. Those who are listening that may not believe or fully

appreciate the extent of the pharmaceutical industry to influence the governmental

regulatory process, Im going to seek to remember to ask our editors to put a video of

60 Minutes of Jack Abramoff. I dont know if you had a chance to see that, but I have

been watching 60 Minutes for over 40 years. That was one the best 60 Minutes

segments that I ever had. Abramoff as you know was a very prominent political

lobbyist who served four years in jail. If he hadnt served Federal time, theres no way

he would have ever been to share his information, because they would have thrown him

in jail immediately (but he already served time for it).

RR: Oh, why?

DM:It was the most amazing description of the entire process. He went in very specific

detail on how he was able to corrupt the congressmen and the senators, and how they

do it to the chief of staffs. It was very detailed. You can see how he controlled, literally

I believe hundreds of congressmen.

[----- 30:00 -----]

He can get anything he wanted done. It was just amazing. It didnt really discuss the

pharmaceutical industry, but they had large political lobbyists.

RR: Yeah.

DM:Its pretty obvious on how theyre able to do it. I would definitely, strongly encourage

anyone watching this to take the 20 minutes and watch this 60 Minutes segment,

because it will just open your eyes. Its the reality of what you just commented on. Its so

true.

RR: Speaking of that, you asked:What can people do? At the local level, you go to

your elected state senators and representatives to get a medical freedom bill passed in

your state, but that still doesnt resolve a problem at the national level where he have an

FDA. I happen to prefer the term Fraud and Deception Administration, where we have

an FDA that is basically owned by Pharma, and theyre a rogue agency thats

interpreting the law anyway they see fit.

Most recently, I understand that Orrin Hatch and Tom Harkin went to the FDA to explain

the legislative intent of DSHEA, the Dietary Supplement Education Act of 1994, to the

FDA since they were the authors. The FDA says, No! Thats not what was meant by

Congress. We know what was meant. And here were the congressional officers.

From my perspective at the national level, letters need to be written to your senators

and your congressmen, and you let them know. Millions of people, millions, need to let

these people know that you will vote them out of office when you see contributions in

their coffers from the likes of Pharma and Monsanto. You see a contribution from them.

You know how that persons going to vote. You vote them out of office, and you let them

know that youre going to vote them out.

DM:Excellent. You have mentioned that were spending bazillions, but more precisely,

were spending over two trillion dollars every year in the US, and this is going up. I think

its two and a half trillion. Its probably going up to three trillion in the not-too-distant

future. Thats a lot of money, but were a tech country, and we have a lot of cost and

expenses for that. Theres no question, no one is saying that its a waste of money, but

if we got results for, I think you could justify spending that amount.But the results arent

justified!

I think that were the 50th in the whole world in longevity, and the infant mortality rate is

about 30, so were not getting what were spending for. We should be number one in all

of these things, but were not. People arent stupid. You can fool some of the people

some of the time, and they do fool large numbers.

Chicago Magazine recently did a six- or eight-page article on me just a few weeks ago.

They had all the skeptics being able to comment on me. It was totallya

lopsidedhatchetjob. But it was interesting to see the comments, because the majority of

the people that are commenting knew that it was crazy. What they were saying is, This

is ridiculous. Youre just being a spokesperson for the drug companies. They know,

because many of them have been injured. You got thousands of people dying every

year unnecessarily, being killed essentially. I dont think thats too harsh a term. Theyre

literally being killed for profit for the drug company.

RR: I got a better term, Joe. The word is murder. The reason why Im using murder

is Vioxx.

DM:Yeah.

RR: Merck knew it was killing people and they kept it on the market. Thats intent.

Thats murder.

DM:Yeah. I agree.Actually in 1999, I think I was the first public person to announce that.

This was actually before it was approved! The studies were out and I said, Listen, this

is going to kill people from cardiovascular disease. Do not take Vioxx. It was approved

a few months later and,of course, five years later Merck voluntarily removed it after they

killed or murdered 60,000 people.

Interestingly, they just settled the legislation on that, because it was obviously class

action lawsuits. They only loaned for having to pay like a billion. It was still a lot of

money, but they can afford it. Their stock really dropped dramatically, and I think it was

in 2004 when they first voluntarily recalled it. There were speculations that they were

going to lose 20 to 25 billion, but they were able to manipulate things and essentially

just got a slap on the wrist with a billion dollar fine for killing 60,000 people.

Then, whats even worse is Avandia. I believe its Avandia. Thats the diabetes drug?

Thats killed 100,000. They removed it from the market in Europe; its black box warning

in the US and it was still allowed to be prescribed, at least the last time I looked at it. It

was maybe removed, but I dont believe they took it off yet.

RR: Typically, what I have seen is that Pharma will get back its multi-billion dollar

investment on a drug, before they remove it or the FDA takes it off the market.

DM:Yeah.

RR: Thats what happened with Vioxx.

DM:What strategy would you advise patients who are relatively new to natural medicine,

and theyre seeking to identify a coach, a clinician, a physician, or a natural healthcare

practitioner who can guide them through the process? How do they find someone to

work as their partner? What type of guidelines do you have? Its because people who I

do advise or recommend are relatively few and far between. They are fortunately

growing, but its still a relatively small number.

RR: There are several organizations that post their members online. One is the

American College for Advancement in Medicine. Another is the International College of

Integrative Medicine (ICIM). You could go to either of these two organizations, and there

are others.

You could use these organizations to find someone who is in your state.And even if hes

not close to you, that office could tell you who might be closer to you, because theres

probably a lot of other doctors who are not members. You dont even have to go to a

medical doctor. There are naturopaths who know more about healing than 99.9 percent

of the medical doctors in this country combined.

DM:I think in your state and others, they actually have comparable licenses. They can

even write prescriptions.

RR: There are licensed naturopaths here. In some states, they can do IVs. In some

states, they can write prescriptions. I just found out that I think in Idaho chiropractors

can give IV therapy including oxidation.

DM:Oh, interesting.

RR: It will take a little bit of effort. Its worth looking online. Anybody whos watching this

is online. It shouldnt be that difficult.

DM: Okay.

RR: Then meet the person. Find out his philosophy. My philosophy I tell all my

patients this and I write about this in Second Opinion repeatedly is the three basic

causes of disease: malnutrition, toxins, and stress. Address those three first,and

everything else will fall into line ormost everything will fall into line.

DM:Yeah. Typically, what I would add to that especially that now we live in the 21st

century is the community [inaudible 37:29]. I encourage people to go to their local health

stores at least as many in their community as they can talk to the owner or the most

experienced person that works there, and ask in their experience who the best

clinicians are in the area.

Just like you are not currently board certified, there are a lot of people who know what

theyre doing who are in these organizations. Its good that they have them. I think the

certifications are important and it does serve a role. But just because you have a

certification, it doesnt mean that youre a great doctor,either. It goes both ways. The

community, typically, is the best way in my experience to identify who these people

are. You have to really ask a lot of people to get a consensus, because obviously there

are one or two outliers out there that can throw off your assessment.

Are there any other items that you want to mention on this health freedom area before

we move on to different topics?

RR: Right now, there is a full-court press worldwide to destroy our rights to medical

freedom.

DM: I dont believe that for a second.

RR: [Laughs] Well, Joe, I think you and I need to maybe get together and spend a few

minutes.

DM:[Laughs]

RR: In Australia, for example, 400 professionals have just come out and lobbied the

government to essentially ignore, refuse, or strip recognition for alternative therapies. In

Europe, Germany, and England, theyre trying to strip alternative therapies from third-

party reimbursements and state healthcare reimbursements. In our country, we have

the FDA on a roll to wipeout just about everything that will go up against Pharmas

monopoly. We need to be vigilant. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, as our

founders said.

I do encourage people to join the Alliance for Health Freedom. I encourage people to

get on their mailing list, because when the FDA does its thing, these organizations Its

not like 1990, when I had to get that law passed by hand. Now we have an Internet,and

if there are a million people who are listed, an email can go out right then to a million

people, who can then start lobbying to stop these things from happening.Because we

have seen it work already in slowing down the FDA, but the FDA is intent on doing its

thing.

[----- 40:00 -----]

DM: Okay, great. Thank you for your advice, wisdom, sharing your experience with us,

and for all the pioneering efforts you have had to help provide a level of protection, so

that we can exercise our freedoms that our forefathers helped to implement a few

hundred years ago. Thanks again. Im sure that well connect soon.

[END]