How To Instantly Elevate

Your Work, Get Your

Marketing On Auto-pilot &

Turn Your Clients Into

Raving Fans

TRANSCRIPT

With Stacey Morgenstern

2

How To Instantly Elevate Your Work, Get Your

Marketing On Auto-pilot & Turn Your Clients Into

Raving Fans

With Stacey Morgenstern

TRANSCRIPT

Anne Cleveland: I’m Anne Cleveland.

PJ Van Hulle: And I’m PJ Van Hulle.

Anne Cleveland: And welcome to Total Niche Clarity, and the first thing we want to do

is to acknowledge you for taking this time to really dedicate this chunk of time and

learning to your business because we know how busy you are and we also know that

every time you do that, that you’re really taking a step forward and putting out into the

world whatever it is that you’re trying to accomplish, so I want to acknowledge you for

being here, and today we are going to talk about how to instantly elevate your work, get

your marketing on autopilot and turn your clients into raving fans.

Today, Stacey is going to talk about the best secret for how to stand apart from

everyone else in this super crowded market. You’ll learn why this works and how you

can start using it today to infuse your brand with power and intrigue. Also, she’s going

to cover what to do when all different clients come with all different kinds of problems

and how you can solve that. She’s going to talk about the difference between merely

solving a problem and creating an experience – I love this – and how having both of

these will really elevate your work and make more money and turn your clients into

raving fans.

3

She’s also going to cover what riches and niches really mean and how to use this to

design your program for your ideal clients. She’s also going to talk about two easy ways

to find out what people want and how to narrow your niche by answering four simple

questions, and the last thing she’s going to cover is the money maker or breaker test to

evaluate if your niche is profitable or not.

So PJ, would you like to introduce our guest today?

PJ Van Hulle: Absolutely. I’m so excited for this call. We’ve been waiting for this for a

long time, and this symposium really started coming together last year at a JV retreat

that we were at, and Stacey and Tad and myself and some other people got into a

heated discussion about like how important niche marketing was. So it really gave me

the extra fuel to want to put on this event, and so it’s so exciting that almost a year

later here we are doing the interview. Yehey!

So Stacey Morgenstern is, if you have not had the incredible privilege of meeting her

yet, is a million dollar holistic marketing mentor, certified money breakthrough coach,

international public speaker and award-winning professional copywriting mentor. She is

also the co-creator of Holistic MBA, which is the premier training company for holistic

practitioners and coaches who want to go from startup to six-figures in under 12 months

working from anywhere in the world.

Holistic MBA, if you’re not familiar with it is built on the four pillars of a profitable holistic

business model. Your mindset, your marketing, your coaching skill sets and your

business systems, and without working on these four pillars, holistic practitioners end up

working too hard for too little return which then sadly leaves to disenchantment and

burnout and sometimes, just giving up and going out of business altogether. When you

incorporate these four pillars, you can cultivate a business that gives you more freedom

and flexibility to live life on your own terms while also showing up to deeply serve the

world and make the difference that you want to make. So I love what Holistic MBA and

4

what Stacey are about and I feel completely delighted that we get to learn from her

today. So welcome, Stacey.

S. Morgenstern: Thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here.

PJ Van Hulle: Yehey! So to jump right in, you do a fantastic job of niche marketing.

Your niche is so hot. So would you tell us about your story? Like did you always know

what your niche was, and how did you get here?

S. Morgenstern: No, of course not. I mean, this is one of my favorite subjects to talk

about because as we all probably met our niche struggles, I struggled with it a lot

myself. About five years ago I was working as a full time cookie and pie taster while

going to school to become a holistic health coach.

PJ Van Hulle: Wow.

S. Morgenstern: So funny, I ended up and grew and jumped into position with holistic

health coach from cookie and pie taster, and you can imagine the feeling that I was

living way out of integrity with who I wanted to be, and I couldn’t get clients because I

felt ashamed and embarrassed to claim being a health coach while most of my days

were spent getting paid to eat sugar. Like who would want to work with me? Wouldn’t

they think I was a fraud? Was I a fraud? Wouldn’t it be easier and more compelling if I

had a health condition that I overcame, then I’d have a credibility story, not that I really

wanted to get sick but I just wanted a good story. All of the successful holistic health

coaches that I knew had gone through some debilitating health challenge, massive

weight loss, IBS, leaky gut, cancer. How can I compete with that? They all had a story,

and I felt like I had nothing.

It’s like when someone would ask them what let you to become a holistic health coach,

they had a big reason why. I didn’t really know my deeper reason why. They seemed

to have a natural niche that just fell into their own life experience, and I didn’t really

have that. I was just drawn to this world of holistic health and wellness and healing and

5

food, being healthy seems sexy and fun, and so narrowing my niche was so hard

because frankly I didn’t feel connected to a big why, and then it was all of a sudden,

everyone around me started complaining about how out of control their sugar have been

for them. It’s funny how like the mirror is right there and you can’t even see it, that

they started and they couldn’t stop, that they were gaining weight, their pants weren’t

fitting anymore. Their roommates would bring home doughnuts every night and it was

just irresistible, the doughnuts were talking to them. Their boyfriends insisted on having

something sweet after dinner, and of course, their boyfriends never gain any weight so

they just went along with that and they didn’t know how to solve this problem.

How did I do it? How did I manage to be eating sugar every single day and stay the

same? How could I get paid to eat sweets and not be all cracked out? And the truth is

that I was really cracked out, but this question gave me a great idea, and that was to

start a two-week take sugar challenge for myself and ten friends and the results were

phenomenal. So what I started with was my own healing journey of something that I

needed to work on myself. I enrolled a couple of friends to do it with me, and what

happened is that people were sleeping better, feeling sexier and not as hungry and more

productive, and so helping people take sugar became my thing and that’s when my

practice took off, I had found my big why. Now, I went to networking event, I had

something to lead with. Now here is a takeaway lesson from that, is that the thing that

you are embarrassed or afraid to admit to your clients is often the very thing that you

should lead with.

Anne Cleveland: It’s so true.

S. Morgenstern: I was trying to hide my paradoxical story, right?

Anne Cleveland: Yeah

S. Morgenstern: When in fact that’s the very thing that held the keys to narrowing my

niche, standing apart from everyone else and attracting more clients who had a problem

that I had figured out how to solve. As my business grew and became more successful

6

doing that work, helping people get off sugar, I had practitioners from all over the world

started asking me questions like, “How did you build your practice so quickly? How did

you close the deal? How do you create and fill a group program? How do you find

affluent clients?” And at first, I was giving all these information for free. What I

realized was I told them the things that I just told you was that the thing that I was

embarrassed or afraid to admit actually held the keys to launching my practice out into

the world to being able to solve a problem. I didn’t even know what a niche was back

then, but I realized that there was something to that.

At first, as my business grew and these people were calling me and asking me and I was

just telling them what I did for free, I didn’t even realize that this very piece that people

need to build a business, I didn’t even realize that that was a problem or that I had the

solution and that that might be very valuable to people. So here is another takeaway

lesson from that is that with things that come, never feel guilty about receiving money

for things that are common to you but uncommon to others. Because the business

building thing started to become very natural and easy for me and when other people

ask me about it, I just thought, “Oh, well, let me just set up a half an hour call and tell

you what I did to build a business and get clients.”

Eventually, one holistic health coach came to me and said, “Can I hire you to mentor me

on how to build a six figure coaching practice?” And the light bulb went off, it’s like, “Oh

right, this is solving another problem.” So a second business was born to help holistic

health coaches specifically build a six figure practice in under 12 months, and why 12

months? Because that’s what I was able to do with my own practice, and there really is

something about six figures. I know a lot of business coaches throw that number

around, but there really is this sense of satisfaction in reaching six figures and knowing

what a difference you’re making in so many people’s lives, and that’s really what

catapulted the narrowing my niche, figuring out what that piece was, that that was a

secret foundation to building any business.

Anne Cleveland: Wow! I love how you’re talking about it. It’s like you had the

instinct. You didn’t know how to lay it. You were just doing it instinctively, and I’m

7

wondering if you were making such great money in the health and wellness, why you

would actually want to switch niches and how that happened?

S. Morgenstern: Well, that’s a great question, and I get that question a lot. For a

while I was doing both, dividing my energy between holistic health coaching and being a

business coach. I was feeling a little tug of war really on my heart, and it was actually a

conversation I had with Bill Barren at one time and he said, “You know, you are dividing

your energy. What would it be like if you harness all of your energy towards one focal

point?” and I really had an aha moment that the doorway to transformation changes,

that the entry place where I could connect to people was originally food, the way we do

one thing is the way we do everything. Food was my access point to connect to me and

clients who were not living in integrity with who they wanted to be, and that doorway to

transformation shifted into money and business.

All the fears come up around money and business and being an entrepreneur. Fear of

rejection, fear of failing, fear of being wrong, fear of looking like a fool, of what others

will think of you when you put yourself out there, and that was the stuff that I found

myself kicking out on all the time and these are also areas that I see very clearly. It’s

what holds people back from doing their great work, and so I switched niches because

for the time being this is where I was being called to be. This is where I could have the

greatest impact.

The great news is that it’s liberating. This is a little secret is that you do have to commit

to something to really get traction in your business, but you don’t have to stay married

to one niche forever. This is like non-monogamous commitment somehow. If you

become passionate about a different niche or a different problem or you want to create a

different kind of experience, then change it but do get started with something so that

you can get traction, practice some marketing piece that all of these amazing experts,

and, PJ and Ann, you are teaching here so you can see how it all works. When you’re

ready for that doorway to transformation, you may be called into a different one. Does

that make sense?

8

Anne Cleveland: Yeah.

PJ Van Hulle: Yeah, totally. So everybody talks about like you get rich in your niche,

so in your world, what does rich in niches really mean and how can we use this to design

programs for ideal clients?

S. Morgenstern: Well, it doesn’t mean what I thought it meant. I don’t know if you

remember what I thought it meant, but I had a huge aha about it recent is that I started

that second business, the business coaching, and I was doing one-on-one sessions with

people and maybe some small group coaching, it was like four to six people, and one

day a bunch of clients started saying, “I’m having this problem. Clients always seem to

have an excuse for not signing up for my program. They say things like, ‘I have to talk

to myself,’ and I don’t know how to answer them. Can you help me with that?” So the

light bulb went off. I realized that I could create programs that solve specific problems

that my current clients were facing, that there niches within niches.” So from that

problem, I created a product called Closing The Deal, and the next question was about

teleseminars so now my business partner, Carey Peters and I created The Teleseminar

Success Systme, and then it was about done-for-you copywriting so we created a whole

email marketing sequence for people, and these programs were a huge hit and they all

had something in common, they solve a specific problem that our clients wanted solved

right now.

One of my mentors calls this “the priceless answer.” It’s like what’s the problem that

they want solved right now, and so what happened is that you kind of have your overall

niche so we work with holistic practitioners who want to build a six figure practice in

under 12 months, but within that niche there is a whole cascade of problems that they

are going to face. So these were niches within niches that I discovered. When people

say “riches in niches,” they are not just talking about that first level of narrowing your

niche as holistic health practitioners, they are talking about the niches within your niche.

Every time you solve a problem for your clients, it’s likely going to present another

problem. So the riches in niches is anticipating what those next problems are and being

ready with the solution, and we now call this the “cash flow cascade.” So one program

9

cascades into the next in a logical way, and what this does is that provides an

opportunity for you to seek deeper rather than broad and it’s also the reason we have

an incredibly long relationship with our clients. I think most coaching relationships last

three to six months. Our clients tend to stay with us for two to three years or more.

Now, here is a bonus, you’ve probably already pondered what problem you solved and

imagining in this niche telesummit, that we’ve gone over that a few times on what

problem do you solve. So the advanced tip is to start anticipating what new problem will

arise as a result of solving the first one. As you gain experience in one niche, you’ll get

really, really good at this. So it’s not just like what’s the program you’re going to offer

now, what’s the next program after that, and what’s the next program after that. Peter

Drucker says, “When you can articulate and anticipate someone’s problem almost better

than they can, they will automatically and unconsciously credit you with knowing the

solution.” And I love this because it’s just like, have you ever had a client come to you

at a session and say, “Oh my gosh, I am starting to self-sabotage and everything is

falling apart,” and you’re like, “Good, that’s exactly what I thought would be happening.

That’s why I thought we would do the self-sabotage exercise today.” So if you start to

get really good like your antenna goes up and you start to tune into exactly what those

next problems are going to be. So can I give an example?

Anne Cleveland: Yeah.

PJ Van Hulle: Yeah, totally.

S. Morgenstern: One of my clients, it’s a holistic nutrition coach who work with weight

loss. She helps people lose those stubborn 15 pounds. After working with a few clients,

she started to notice that clients were regaining the weight after about six to nine

months, and what she discovered is that for the first time, these women were getting

noticed in ways that made them uncomfortable. Suddenly their families and friends

were commenting on their bodies, saying things like, “Oh, you’re so skinny. Do you

even eat?” Or on the flipside, whistles from men on the street. So what did they do to

hide out and stop all that uncomfortable attention? They binge. They gained the weight

10

back because it felt safe. The weight served as a protection. My client started to notice

this pattern in her clients.

Then instead of just sitting on her hand waiting for her client to gain all the weight back,

feel shame, embarrassment and disappointment, she got really good at anticipating the

signs that it was starting to happen. That way she could rein her clients in and help

them love their bodies, feel confident responding to that attention and know what to do

with the angst when they were tempted to self-medicate with the binge, and clients

ended up staying with her on average for three to four years because she had the

solution cascade, one program cascading into the next, and she got this super dialed in

and it really, really served her and her clients. So this is probably one of the most

important insights that catapulted my income into seven figures and elevated our work,

and why is that? Because we got to a lot deeper with our most ideal clients which kept

us at the top of our game creating advanced programs which lead to better testimonials,

bigger results and more high-profile clients.

So if you don’t have the skills to solve that next problem because I can just hear a few

people going like, “Yeah, but if I give them everything that I know?” Well, number one

is that you can certainly continue to develop your own skills, and number two, if you

don’t have the skills to solve that next problem, partner with someone who does.

Anne Cleveland: That’s great. I love that. As you know, clients come to us. We get

so many different problems and different kinds of clients coming to us, how do you work

with that and how do you help them all, if you can?

S. Morgenstern: Yes, well, I started off saying yes to anyone with a pulse and a

checkbook who wanted to work with me, and I think in the beginning we just want to

know that somebody wants something that we have to offer.

PJ Van Hulle: Yeah.

11

S. Morgenstern: And that’s okay, and so do that. Get a few yeses. Just try that on.

If you’ve never had any clients before, just try that on, get a few yeses. But what

you’re going to find is that I ended up with a few great clients. I kind of got lucky in the

beginning with a few really great clients, but then there were the other ones, the clients

who completely zapped my energy, and I’m sure both of you can relate with that super

demanding, boring, unenthusiastic, unwilling, self-entitled, failure to follow through

clients with endless excuses that you begin to dread talking to, and that’s when this

really starts to feel like work.

PJ Van Hulle: Right.

S. Morgenstern: Back pedal, back pedal. Oh no. So when you say no to non-ideal

clients, you’re making room in your practice to attract clients that inspire you to do your

best work, and you’ve got to keep in mind that it’s for your client’s benefit as much as it

is yours. I’ve heard people say that, “Oh, but this person really needs my help.” Well, if

you’re feeling drained and empty, then you’re giving your client far less than your best

and it’s both of you who are suffering for it. So no compromise here, instead think

about it. Here, this works in relationships too, is that instead of compromising, think

about how you can collaborate to come up with a better solution than either one of you

compromising. So in this case, it would be referring them to someone who can and will

do their best work with them, otherwise you’re working out of integrity with yourself and

your business and it will end up causing you a lot more than you gain, I promise that

that’s true.

On the other hand, when you work with clients that you love, you’ll truly enjoy the work

that you’re doing. You will love every minute of it, and when you love your work, you

will do your best work. You are going to find out how capable you are in this realm,

which actually means that your clients are going to get better results which turns your

clients into raving fans, which gets you more referrals and makes working fun. I love

my clients so much that sometimes I can’t believe that I get paid to work with them,

and without clarity you often engage those who are the most in need and desperate

instead of the best fit. So just turning it around even though you have all of these

12

opportunities and people coming to you with different problems that you may be able to

solve, it will serve you best that they can choose. It’s like the universe, it wants to test

you constantly with opportunities. It tests your yes and no, and sometimes saying no

means saying yes to something bigger, if that makes sense. There is a trap…

PJ Van Hulle: That makes a lot of sense. But the other thing I want to just point out

is that the way you love your clients, they love you. We’ve had hundreds of people from

holistic MBA opt in to participate in this virtual symposium and they’ve sent Facebook

posts and emails and everything to us telling us how amazing you are.

S. Morgenstern: Oh. Well, it’s because I’m a reflection of them. It’s just to speak

that they don’t know. Hopefully, I’m going to get to tell them in November where we

are hosting our event in Philadelphia so I’ll get to tell them in person.

PJ Van Hulle: Cool. So can you talk about…

S. Morgenstern: One more piece on that though…

PJ Van Hulle: I’m sorry, go ahead…

S. Morgenstern: Yeah, sorry. It’s about what I call the “rebellious hellion voice” who

will protest that my services can really help everyone. My business partner Carey and I

have stayed really tightly niched in helping holistic practitioners find their voice, and it’s

been really tempting to broaden out because if truth be told is that the strategies we are

teaching could work in other fields. It could work for a small business owner or solo

entrepreneur or really with a speaker or other business coaches, like it could work,

however then we would sound like all the other business coaches. So recognize that

what you do probably can help everyone, and that’s what makes this so confusing. So

let go of that and understand that from the client’s point of view, they want something

that was made just for them, not for everyone.

13

So if I were to ask you, PJ and Anne, which is more attractive to you. If I say, “Here is

version one on the business coach who helps you get more business, or I’m a marketing

mentor for holistic health practitioners who want to go from startup to six figures in

under 12 months, who would you want to work with?”

Anne Cleveland: Yeah, number two.

S. Morgenstern: And why?

Anne Cleveland: Just because I feel more identified. I feel like, “Oh.” And the other

one is so broad I go, “Well, can they really me?” It brings up all kinds of questions.

S. Morgenstern: So let’s take another example, I help people achieve their ideal

weight versus I help brides to shed those last stubborn 15 pounds before her wedding

day without starving, sucking it in or stressing out.

PJ Van Hulle: That’s nice. Yeah, the second one is better. I mean, you’re totally

appreciative of the choir like this is why we did this event. It’s so much hotter when you

can get that niche dialed in, and it’s probably you articulate it in a way that we haven’t

heard yet which is you said, when you get tempted to expand and like help everybody,

now all of a sudden you look like everybody else, and then those two examples you just

gave, that’s true. The first one sounds like what everybody says, and the second one is

like, “Oh, this is different. This is for me, or this is for somebody that I know.”

S. Morgenstern: And we struggle with this still now because, again, opportunity comes

knocking. We get offers from people in other companies who have seen us speak or

heard about us and say like, “Well, can you come and teach our company?” And then

we could say yes, and we could broaden our niche, but what about all the holistic health

practitioners who are coming to us because we are the go-to people for holistic

practitioners, and a lot of people do come to us and say, “That’s why I chose you over

so and so and so and so.” So we keep revisiting that, that question, broad in or stay

narrow, and we keep coming to the same conclusion which is to stay narrow, that you

14

actually have more leverage to make money and attract more ideal clients when you

stay narrow.

Here is another problem that I would present is that when I first launched my health

coaching practice, I stayed really general for a while. I saw different types of people

were coming to me. One week it was acne, the next it was Candida, and the next it was

weight loss. It was all over the place. On the plus side, I was attracting clients, but on

the downside, I wasn’t making any money because I had to spend hours reading about

Candida or acne before each session because these weren’t the things I had any

experience with.

So if I actually calculated dollars for hour I was earning, it was probably pennies, and

when someone asks me what do you do, I was constantly fumbling on my words. I

didn’t know what to say. Should I say the acne thing or the weight loss thing.

Intuitively, it seems like you would be missing out on money to send these clients

elsewhere. It’s just like a whole client that you’re missing out on, however it’s often the

counterintuitive strategies that work when it comes to creating a sustainable money

making business that you love. It’s just really interesting that we still revisit that

question and still come to the same conclusion that narrow is better, and I know a lot of

people get tongue tied when you answer the question, what do you do, so if that’s you,

then later on the call we will be sharing a great way to do that so that the person you’re

talking to, instead of getting that dreaded, glazed over, faraway look in their eyes, they

will actually be engaged and want to sign up to become your client or refer someone to

you.

PJ Van Hulle: Yeah, I love the little video that you did about that. I was watching it

last night. So if you’re listening in on this and you want to see a really cute video of

Stacey and her business partner doing the “what do you do” question, then you want to

go to tinyURL.com/tncstacey and you can get a really cool starter kit that she’s going to

talk about later and it will also show you the little video. I just want to let you know

now.

15

S. Morgenstern: Yeah, and it’s a cute free video we made. We had a lot of fun with

that. You will see our goofball side.

PJ Van Hulle: Yeah.

S. Morgenstern: But hey, goofy is the new sexy.

PJ Van Hulle: Totally. It’s hot to be geek. So can you talk about, because this is

something that I’m personally really passionate about. Can you talk about what you

mean when you say getting your marketing on autopilot?

S. Morgenstern: Yes. Isn’t this a question of the day? We made another video joke

about the internet marketing lifestyle, like living the dream, because you see all these

internet marketers talking about the free time and getting things on autopilot, but

behind the scenes, they are crazy with working on a launch and staying up all night and

having email copy, right? isn’t that the truth?

PJ Van Hulle: Yeah.

S. Morgenstern: So a lot of clients come to us and say, “I want to get my marketing

on autopilot, meaning I want to be able to get a rush of new clients at any time. I want

to attract people who know they want to work with me even before they call me or

before I talk to them on the phone. Instead of having to convince them that my

program works, I want them to have come to me like already wanting to do it.” So

when you narrow your niche, this is something that actually becomes easy to do, and

how do you do that? Well, one of the ways that niche comes up in your marketing is the

language you use to describe what you do. If you have the right language on your

website, for example, then potential clients will go to your website and immediately feel

like, “Oh, she’s talking directly to me. This is exactly what I’ve been looking for.”

So how are you going to give them that feeling? And that first part is solving a problem,

so we’ve kind of got that one. Okay, I’m sure you’ve been focusing on that a lot in this

16

telesummit series. That’s so important. You’ve got to be able to solve a problem. The

second piece is something I rarely hear talked about talked about, and that is creating

an experience. Now, both of these are essential for elevating your work, how others see

you and getting your marketing on autopilot. So I’m going to tie these two in together

about creating an experience and getting your marketing on autopilot. Copywriting, by

the way, is one of the things that really, really shifted my practice, and copywriting is

simply the words that you use to motivate people to take measurable action. It’s a

language that you use, a way you persuade with words to motivate people to take

measurable action.

So like I was just saying is that the first part of getting things on autopilot and being

able to solve a problem and articulating that you solve that problem, and the second

piece is creating an experience. So how do you create an experience with your brand?

Well, one way is with a language that you use. It’s got to be congruent and it’s got to

be consistent. So for example, if you’re talking to women who want to lose those last

15 pounds, it’s different than talking to men who want to have bulging muscles. The

words you use to talk to emotional eaters is different than the words you use to talk to

runners who are training for a marathon. Now, we work mostly with holistic

practitioners, so usually masculine military references such as client attraction

ammunitions or closing video arsenal, it does work for our tribe. It’s not the experience

that we want to evoke, and what will happen is that when somebody comes to your

website, if we use those kinds of words, there is going to be a slight disconnect and they

won’t even quite know why it’s happening, but they might look at your stuff and see,

“Oh, wow, she solves our problem, but yet something is not feeling right.”

So it’s the same thing with target market. We used to use the term target market a lot

and we found that our clients were having a hard time connecting to that concept, so

now we refer to target market as the people you serve or your tribe. It just softens it a

little bit. Again, target market is a very masculine terminology. People you serve or

your tribe is very feminine. It evokes collaboration. The languaging evokes a visceral

experience, like you just notice how you feel it in your body when you talk about client

attraction ammo. It builds into the aura of our brand, the languaging that we use.

17

This is how we chose to position ourselves to make that human connection, to make that

emotional bond with our clients, and making conscious choices about positioning is also

really a part of niche clarity. Positioning is how your tribe sees you and how potential

collaboration partners see you within the market, and you can determine your

positioning by two things. Number one is solving a problem or unmet need for a specific

group of people who have that problem and want it solved. I’ll say that again because

it’s a good one that’s how you position, number one is by solving a problem or unmet

need for a specific group of people who have that problem and want it solved now, and

number two, to creating an experience with your marketing, and in this case, it’s with

the words that you use.

This is a key leadership piece. You want to be a leader and be seen as a leader. Your

clients expect you to be a leader. So what’s the aura, what’s the visceral emotional

feeling that you want to create? And a great way of thinking about this is if you’re

business was a physical place, what would that place feel like? And this is the silent part

of niche clarity. These are tacit qualities, not explicit. So a little bonus tangent is that I

work with a lot of holistic healers and coaches who want to wake people out of their

trance, elevate their consciousness around health and food and lifestyle and

communication and going green, all those kinds of things, and the reason that they

struggle to get clients is that they are often trying to fix someone who doesn’t want to

be fixed. If people don’t want the solution you’re providing or if they are not

experiencing the problem yet like with prevention, then you’re going to have a hard time

convincing them that they have a problem. It’s much harder to do than someone who is

already out there looking for help.

So that’s a little hint into the money maker or breaker test. It’s a little sneak peek into

the money maker or breaker test which I will be sharing in the starter kit. It is ask the

question, this is the money maker or breaker question, is this person proactively seeking

the solution I offer? And the key word there is “proactively” because if they can put it

off until tomorrow, then they are probably not going to invest with you. So they’ve got

to be proactively seeking the solution that you offer. So one example of that would be

18

to think about like when you try to tell people what they need versus what they want.

It’s like if you’ve ever tried to get someone you love to quit smoking who really didn’t

have any desire to quit, it’s really hard to do. Or talking to someone who eats

McDonald’s five days a week about eating goji berries and seaweed. You’ll probably not

going to have a great deal of success. So our job is to find out what people want and

then designing your products and programs in such a way that your prospect feels like

you are speaking directly to them, and when you do this correctly, your program will

seem like the most obvious choice.

So just to like give a quick example about marketing that was designed for a specific

prospect and therefore it made more healing. If you’ve ever taken a multi-vitamin,

would you take the multi-vitamin or the Women’s One A Day, a multi-vitamin specifically

designed for women?

Anne Cleveland: The Women’s.

S. Morgenstern: Oh yeah, of course, and as you know, when vitamin companies

started marketing the multi-vitamin to a very specific group of people, in this case,

women, their sales went up 1,300%.

Anne Cleveland: Oh my God. Wow!

S. Morgenstern: And why is that? Because now women were looking at the bottles in

the shelf and thinking, “That one was made for me.”

Anne Cleveland: Yeah.

S. Morgenstern: It’s huge. A little story about creating an experience when I was

pregnant, I had what I like to call spaghetti leg syndrome, but the scientific name is

symphysis pubis dysfunction.

PJ Van Hulle: Wow!

19

S. Morgenstern: It’s a very common condition but uncommonly painful, and I started

asking my friends and yoga teachers, “Hey, do you know anyone who helps with this

problem?” And they pointed me to a chiropractor who had niched herself specifically

with pre- and post-natal care. When I went to her website, she had a little quiz, two

questions. Her first question was, “Are you pregnant?” And the second question was,

“Are you experiencing pelvic pain that makes it hard to stand or walk?” Oh I’m sorry,

the first question was, “Are you pregnant and experiencing pelvic pain?” And the second

question was, “Are you experiencing low back pain when you lay down?” If you

answered yes to the questions, then on the next page, it told you two to three sentences

about each yes answer, why it was happening, what it was, and then she made a funny

personable joke which made me feel like I knew her already, and then she made an

offer, “Stop your low back and pelvic pain in three visits or less, guaranteed. Schedule

your appointment with Dr. So and So here.”

Anne Cleveland: Wow! That’s compelling.

S. Morgenstern: So it’s pretty compelling, right? It was like just stop it now. If you

have this problem, stop it now. Now, it turns out that the first appointment with this

chiropractor was over $400.

PJ Van Hulle: Wow!

S. Morgenstern: And that’s a lot. I don’t know if either of you ever go to the

chiropractor…

Anne Cleveland: Yes, a lot.

S. Morgenstern: But relative to what most chiropractors charge, that was exorbitant

like I was like, “Whoa, ouch! Yikes!” There is plenty of good chiropractors out there

who charge a fraction of that, so why would I spend $400 to see this one doctor? Well, I

have to tell you that I wanted my pain gone as soon as possible no matter how much it

20

cost, that was important to me, to stop the pain now, and that chiropractor used words

that spoke directly to me that said this was made for me, that she had exactly what I

was looking for. Not only that, but on her website, I’ll tell you how she evoked the

experience. Remember earlier I was saying that if you imagine your business as a

physical place, what would it would look like? So she had pictures of the office, which

included fresh flowers, pictures of pregnant bellies on the walls, wooden desk. There

was no plastic to be seen. It was a green office. Without needing to say, it’s a green

office. It evoked natural, queen, feminine and serene, but remember these were tacit

qualities, not explicit. They were silently there giving me a visceral response, “Oh, I can

trust this person. I want to go there.”

So when I went to other chiropractic sites, they were all general and sterile and thus the

experience they evoked was sterile. No one spoke to the specific problem I was having

and no one gave me that feeling of warmth and trust like she has. What ended up

happening is that she became the obvious choice. Regardless of her fees, I had to work

with that doctor.

Anne Cleveland: That’s an incredible story. That illustrates it so well, and I’m

wondering how you discover what people want and how you find that unmet need, how

do you discover that?

S. Morgenstern: Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, the truth is that everyone is

experiencing some kind of challenge here or frustration in their lives that they want

solved right now, or some kind of desire that they want right now. So how do you

discover what people want or how do you find that unmet need. Well, there are a few

ways. There are actually many, many ways, but I’m going to share two ways. Number

one is the most low tech one is to just simply keep a running list of what current clients

and prospective clients, and even your friends at parties and family are always asking

about, because inevitably people are coming to you and asking you questions that most

entrepreneurs tend to be like the go-to expert with their friends and family who are

always asking you for advice. So take note of what people are asking you about.

21

Clients and prospective clients are always telling us exactly what they want to know, so

that’s number one.

Number two is to survey your list. So if you don’t have a list, survey the people you

know and ask them, “What’s your biggest challenge with X? What’s your biggest

challenge with being in peak health? What’s your biggest challenge with booking your

first talk?” Whatever your niche is, what’s your biggest challenge with X? What we

really want to know is what do they want and what’s stopping them. Those questions

are going to give you so much insight into what people really want so that you can

create and design products and programs that are pretty much guaranteed to sell

themselves like the people automatically want to buy, and that’s the way to go about

doing it versus creating what you think they need and hoping that they buy it. You’ll get

80% of the weight you’re creating something but not knowing who wants to buy it. It’s

going to be heartbreaking.

PJ Van Hulle: That makes a lot of sense. So then actually, I know that you created a

special gift just for this group. Would you be willing to tell people a little bit about the

gift that you mentioned?

S. Morgenstern: I would love to share that. So I know I’m not going to have time to

go through the four questions for narrowing your niche, but I actually included them in

the bonus and it’s totally free so everyone can access that, and that kind of works out

because now you don’t have to scribble them down. So what I thought for you is a

special starter kit. It’s called What To Do, What To Write And What To Say To Get Your

Next Ten Clients in 30 Days Starter Kit, and let’s just go through it and talk a really

quick little bit about that. So in the What to Do piece or what to do is how to narrow

your niche by answering four simple questions. So to narrow your niche, you’re going to

answer the questions inside the starter kit and you’re going to go through them a few

times and you’re going to notice that often your best ideas will come out on your third or

fourth cycle going through the questions.

22

If you’re feeling stuck around niche, realize that you are really a close match with some

people and not a close match for others. You don’t have to pretend you’re someone

you’re not to get or to keep clients. So consider who can you have the biggest impact

for, and again if you’re stuck, consider the place that you were two steps ago. Perhaps

there are others hurting the way that you are hurting in your journey, and if that’s the

place where you feel embarrassed or ashamed or you’re thinking that that’s the part

you’re going to hide, that’s probably the part that wants to come forward. It will be

really healing for you and it will be really healing for other people. You’ll likely

understand and know them because you are them, and if you’re really lost or scattered

with narrowing your niche, that’s a great place to start. Being an entrepreneur is really

the greatest personal growth experience you can ever do, so this is your chance to come

out of hiding.

Okay, the what to write piece, the what to write piece is part of creating that

experience. So in the starter kit, what I shared with you is how to create killer titles

that sells so your program must become irresistible to your most ideal clients because

now we are talking about copywriting, again, you’re going to discover how to start using

niche-specific language in your marketing and on your website so when someone lands

there, they not only see you can solve a problem, but they have a feeling that what

you’re offering was made just for them. You get some of those silent visceral emotional

feeling, the experience of the place that you create with your business, whether it’s a

virtual or in person.

Then the what to say piece is how to answer the question what do you do so clients

want to hire you on the spot and refer you to others. One of the reasons that we as

holistic practitioners have such a hard time talking about what we do is because many of

the benefits of our work are intangible. I hear so many times clients say, “I help people

find balance, or I help people feel healthy and happy, or I help people feel vibrant.” We

don’t all know exactly what that means or who makes an ideal client for you. If you get

a hundred people in a room and ask them to define happy or balance or vibrant, they

are going to come up with a hundred different answers. So while all of these maybe are

hidden benefits to our programs, we want to identify the physical tangible problem that

23

we solved, and as holistic practitioners, we find it a challenge to communicate the

intangible and tangible terms. However, there is always a tangible, physical specific

representation of the result our work delivers, and that’s the place where we got to

start.

Now, some of you, you are going to be tempted to say, “Yeah, but my business is

different. It’s really about helping people live their best lives, find balance and feel

vibrant. You can’t really put it into tangible terms.” And that’s just simply not true.

Most of us do work, that goes beyond losing weight, fitting into skinny jeans or saving

time in the kitchen, and believe me, I totally get that, and if you’ve been using the more

abstract descriptions like balance to describe what you do, you may have noticed that

they are really tough sell.

S. Morgenstern: So write down what you tell people you do. If I were to just meet

you right now and I said, “Oh, what do you do?” It’s again the most inevitable question

that you will get. You are going to get that question over and over and over again so

you might as well have a good answer for it. We’d like to call this the “hot hook.” So

with your hook, hot or not, do your words clearly communicate the transformation that

you offer. So that’s a little exercise for you. Like right now, if you just want to post on

the blog, what do you do? Do you know how to answer that question? Do you get the

response that you want when you answer that question?

The money maker or breaker test is also in the starter kit which you can now access at,

PJ…

PJ Van Hulle: Oh, it’s tinyURL.com/tncstacey.

S. Morgenstern: Oh, and I got a good aha from Nissa. Hey Nissa. Nissa is one of our

holistic MBA clients, and she just said that she had a huge aha that I may be able to

give up my design business to concentrate fully on the organic nursery. So it sounds

like Nissa, you are feeling that your energy is being pulled into two different directions

24

and what could happen if you focus all of that towards one big point. What’s the

momentum that could happen there?

So that what’s in the starter kit. That’s the What To Do, What To Write And What To

Say To Get Your Next Ten Clients in 30 Days Starter Kit, and that is just for you guys for

this special summit, and I want to thank you, both PJ and Anne, that was all that I had

to share today unless you have any other questions or words of wisdom that you two

might want to share. I know I’ve been dominating the conversation.

PJ Van Hulle: No, you are great. I mean, I guess, is there anything that you wish we

had asked that we didn’t think to ask?

S. Morgenstern: Well, I guess one thing is that people always come back and say,

“What if I can’t pick a track? Like I have all these different skills and trainings and I

haven’t figured out what my doorway to transformation is. So what if I can’t pick a

track?” And here is what I’d say to that is to be decisive and the universe will reward

you for taking action. That your track is just your door. It’s just a place where people

enter your world.

So for example, even though I’m in the business and marketing and money track, I still

help people get connected to source, to get healthy, to have better sex and better

communication. I still do that, and so it’s kind of like just to figure out what the

doorway is, and all that other stuff can come once somebody is your client into a really

integrated approach and then you get to incorporate all things that you love to do, and

usually you’ll find that by a month 2 or 3, somebody, a client will say to you, “Wow! I

thought this program was about X, but now I see that it’s so much more than that.”

And they will be delighted. But had they learned that up front, they’d probably be

resistant. We got to offer them the doorway that they think is the solution to their

problems, if that makes sense.

Anne Cleveland: I’m wondering, someone has put down their “what do they do”

statement and I thought maybe you could comment on it.

25

S. Morgenstern: Oh sure, yeah, let me refresh.

Anne Cleveland: Help caregivers of special children regain their peace, balance, health

and time, so I’m wondering what you’d say about that.

S. Morgenstern: Yeah, okay. Great, so this is from Lucy.

Anne Cleveland: Yeah.

S. Morgenstern: And she says, “I help caregivers of special needs children regain their

peace, balance, health and time. So one thing, Lucy, I’ll say is when you get the starter

kit, and again, PJ, can you say that URL again?

PJ Van Hulle: At tinyURL.com/tncstacey.

S. Morgenstern: Perfect. So Lucy, in there, you’re going to see our “what do you do”

templates and it breaks down what are the elements that you want to incorporate in

order to be really clear, specific, concise and engaging. So one question that I would

start with here is to look at each word, and is there any word here that we could say is

abstract? Now, what I mean by abstract is that if you ask me, PJ and Anne, what it

means, would we all have different words to describe it, or where we have exactly the

same word to describe it. Would we all be making the same picture in our heads when

you said that word? So for example, when you say balance, can you predict that Anne,

PJ and I have the same movie playing in our heads about what balance is? Probably

not. We all have a different interpretation of that. So that’s more abstract.

What we want to get with our hot hook is something that everyone understands because

when you’re face to face with somebody, you’re really kind of trying to like what

developing rapport is, it’s kind of getting into the same movie theater. We all have a

movie playing. That’s our model of reality. My reality is one way, your reality is another

way, and when we get together and we are connecting, that’s like me inviting you into

26

my movie theater and saying, “Hey, check out this movie that’s playing.” And now we

are in the same reality frame. That might sound a little woo-woo out there, but that

really is what happens. So what we are trying to do with a hot hook is to establish that

genuine connection where we see the world as the same way, and when you use

abstract words, that can be interpreted in different ways or create different pictures in

people’s head then we don’t get that hook and that gives you a little insight, and when

you get our starter kit, you’ll see the template and even the examples of how to take

these intangible pieces and make them more tangible.

PJ Van Hulle: Cool, and we have another one that’s from Jeanette. She says, “I help

transformational authors and coaches help others by ensuring that their message is

clear, organized and well written.”

S. Morgenstern: Okay, “I help transformational authors, “let me just read that again,

transformational authors and coaches help others. “ Who are the others that they help?

That would be helpful to know. “By ensuring that their information is clear, organized

and well written.” So Jeanette, this is a good starting point. What I’d say is that I think

there is probably a more direct route to say what you want to say. What’s the outcome?

If you think of what’s the ultimate outcome that they want, what do these

transformational authors really want, and let’s get right to that and I’ll just refresh the

views on that. Okay, so I’ve got an update. I help transformational authors and

coaches help others. Oh no, that was the same thing.

PJ Van Hulle: Let’s just change the information to methods, which I think was a good

change actually.

Anne Cleveland: Yes.

S. Morgenstern: I guess that their message is clear, organized and well written, it’s

much better. Yes, that makes much more sense. Except the one part I would say is

just “help transformational authors and coaches help others.” I’m not sure who the

others.

27

PJ Van Hulle: I’ll probably just delete that part. It could be something like, “I help

transformation authors and coaches,” like if people actually like identify with that to…

and I lost it. I would delete the “help others” part and say, “I help transformational

authors and coaches,” and maybe just authors, “I help transformational authors and

ensure that their method is clear, organized and well written so that they can serve the

people they are meant to serve.” Or something like that.

S. Morgenstern: Well, the piece that is significant is to think about, “Okay, so if they

have a clear message, then what will they get?”

PJ Van Hulle: Right.

S. Morgenstern: If their message is clear, organized and well written, what’s the

outcome of that? And that’s what we want to get to, so we can keep going in cycles of

this to go, “Well, what’s the outcome of that? What’s the outcome of that net?” And we

keep drilling down to get to the really specific ultimate outcome because getting a clear

message is a means to something else. It’s a stepping stone to something else, so what

it is that they really want? Do they want a bestseller? Do they want to sell a million

copies? Like what is it that they really want?

Anne Cleveland: That’s good. That’s a great distinction. That’s great.

PJ Van Hulle: Cool. So any other just like burning insight that you want to share

before we wrap it up because we have about 50 seconds left?

S. Morgenstern: Fifty seconds left. Let’s see, I think the two most important things

that you can do around niche are to make a decision and commit to it.

Anne Cleveland: Great.

28

S. Morgenstern: So I’ll say it to make a decision and commit to it and start launching

your business because if you’re afraid you’re going to leave somebody out by not

choosing, you actually already are leaving somebody out by not choosing.

Anne Cleveland: Right, if you’re not getting into action.

PJ Van Hulle: Cool. Well, thank you so much, Stacey, for your time. This has been

fantastic, and if you’re listening in on the call, I’d say definitely make sure that you’ve

got Stacey’s took kit, it will help you a lot to really dial this in and find the right words

and get clear on how to market yourself better, and thank you for providing that to us at

no charge. That’s so super cool and super generous.

S. Morgenstern: Yehey! Well, thank you both for hosting this whole thing. You’re

such rock stars and I’m just so grateful that I even get to be here with you. So thank

you so much.

PJ Van Hulle: Yehey!

Anne Cleveland: Thank you so much.

PJ Van Hulle: So thank you, Anne. Thank you, Stacey, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Anne Cleveland: Thank you, bye-bye.

S. Morgenstern: Thank you.

End of Audio