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'Don Cannon Show WBBM Radio

February 1, 1968 - 3:00 PM . Chicago

INTERVINW HAROLD WEISBERG

GUESTS: Harold Weisberg, author "Whitewash I,II,III and "Oswald in New Orleans".

Professor James Thompson, NOrthwestern University

DON CANNON: ...YOu had no presumptions before you began investigating as to who did anything?

HAROLD WEISBERG: That's correct.

CANNON: You used the inductive method.

WEISBERG: Let me give it to you in terms of the conclusion of Whitewash, my first book, which was the first book on this subject. It was finished the middle of February'65. It was first published in August of 1965 and it covers pretty much the whole field. The conclusion was, "The expected job has not been done and must be, entirely in public and preferably by Congress.'

In the course of reaching this conclusion, I think that I utterly destroyed every one of the conm►ission's major conclusions.

JAMES THOMPSON: What beliefs did you develop then about what wknt on -- what actually happened.

WEISBERG:. The very first thing I wrote on this subject was a lead in summary for my agent for a' magazine article. I had an agent then. This is what cost me my agent. That lead in summary began by saying, "Lee Harvey Oswald could not have been persona non grata to the FBI." That was the first week of the assassination. It was clear to me that this had to be true. Without any Warren Commission. Just on the basis of what was known.

CANNON: That he worked for the FBI?

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WE/SBEFG: No, that he couldn't have been persona non strata to the FBI. fly belief immediately were that his connections were with the CIA. I lee nothing except what fortifies this belief.

THOMPSON: Do you have any belief as to who did kill Kennedy and Tipeitt..

WEISBEr.G: I can't give you really a definitive answer on Tippittt except that to say it was not and could not have bean Lee Harvey Oewald.

THOMPSON; • How about Kennedy.

WrISBERG: Kennedy, yes. Cuban refugees -- to, in words that came out in the testimony because the Commission reached the conclusion they couldn't stifle it any longer, over the Bay of Pigs. Now, I think ...

T70,TIPSM: '"first of all, are there more than one man in the conspiracy?

WEIS=C- inevitably. Fore than one men. I think also, so that people won't set tha wrong ides, I an not sayine Cuban meerally, I am not nayine Cuban Organitatione onerally.

am saeing only those most, emotional and most irreeponeiblo, and a very =all percentage because most of the Cubans are very Rood people. Thee're very happy to be in th&s country.

THOMPSON: What evidence is there to supnort that belief'?

WEISBE'r. Um. / take it .-- I can't eive you a short anewer on that, but let me tell you this...

CANNON: Can you backtrack Harold and link Lee Harvey Oswald with the CIA.

WETS=C: That's what...

CATION: It seems to me that this is the basis - the foundation for that charge.

WEISBERG: As you realize, it's the subtitle of my cureent book, "Oswald in New Orleans". The subtitle, "Case for Conspiracy with the CIA." It began as Oswald in New Orleans, CIA Whitewash. Now I'd like to explain to you that my books are really a part of one. And the subtitles are the story. Whitewhash has the subtitle, "The Report on the Warren Report. It's my report on the Warren Report. The subtitle Of Whitewash II Is The FBI Secret Service Coverup." And I specifically charge they were covering up and I show how they covered up and what. With their own evidence. With, Oswald in New Orleans, I am saying what they covered up. And that is,Oswald's connections with the CIA. This is what aetracted me to it immediately. It was inevitable that Oswald had to have had some such commection. NOw, everybody knows

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that Oswald was supposed to have been the Chairman for the Pair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans. ONly there was none. OFwald

CANNON: Wait a minute. Where did the signs come from. I saw Oswald carrying Fair Play signs...

WEISB7:w". Oh, Yeah. Don't let me forret that. I'd like to tell this more logical.

CANNON: OK.

WE/SBE7G: Oswald sent $5.00 to New YOrk and became a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee - a national organization at that time.

He pa'm himself ogif -- he represented himself in one-sided corresnondence,as the Chairman of the Local Chapter. Which doesn't exist. Fe went -- Well, I can't say "he". I'm falling into the error of the report. ."Because the Commission tells this lie. The Commission says, "Lee Harvey Oswald, ustne the-name Osborne, had leaflets siOttne, 'Hands off Cuba', printed at the JOnes Printing Company, 422 Viraee (?) street, New Orleans." And the Commission cites an FRI document, and I'll Five it to you to read, Don.

* • *

CANNON:. Harold, I have here a report which says,'Vair Play for Cuba,' Nee Orleans, Now is thla an FBI report?

WEISBERG: And while you're looking at that,enay I hand Pro-fessor Thompson the rest•of that file, it's exhibit 1410. What I've just given the professor is the Zapruder job sheet cm it and the hand written copy of theleaflet that Oswald eave out.

CANNON: Well, let me askyyou something Harold, -why would Oswald chanee his name? If he wanted to flaunt himself as a Fair Play for Cuba chairman, why would he change his name to Oswald. If he had to make himself a-front?

=BEM): I can't understand it either, but, he did it.

CANNON: I mean he shoUld have made himself, it would seem to me, as conspicuous as possible.

WEISBERG: That's exactly what I said.

CANNON: When does one become conspicuous by changing ones name?

WEISBERG' You're anticipating me, Don. The third Para graph said what you said, that Oswald using the name Osbutd had the leaf-lets printed. Now, if you'll turn, to the next document,erou'll find that it is an 7E1 report of the interview .with mrs. Douglas JOnes, of the Jones Printing Company and I've markededs red ho Jones told the FBI that Oswald using the name Osborn, but Jones said that it wasn't Oswald. And in the next document, the other

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person who knew about it, a Mrs. Myra Silvers, the secretary of the corporation. She also says that it wasn't Oswald.

THOMPSON: Where does the CIA come into all of this?

WEISBERG: Well, if you're expecting me to say professor, that I have Lee Harvey Oswald's payroll records from theClA, I'm going to tell you right now, I dontt have them.

THOMPSON: No, I'm expecting you to answer the question that I thought you were going to answer as to what the connection was be- . tween Oswald and the CIA/

WEISBERG: Well, will you bear with me for a few minutes so I can tell the story logically. So here you have the FBI firstline to the CommisAion and the Commission retailing in this report and I'm saying it's a

CANNOI: We're talking with Harold Weisbera, author of, 'Os-wald in New Orleans,' his newest book, case for conspiracy with the CIA, and Professor James Thompson from Northwestern University law school. A little bit later, we'll be opening our phones at no4-9coo. The area code is 312. Now--

W8115154; Oswald is arrested. Then the offender pleads inno- cent. Oswald agrees to his innocence but, pleads guilty. He pays a ten dollar fine and there's a lot of publicity. Which includes an arrangement whereby he gets on radio and tv and in the apapers. He stayed in New Orleans long enough to harvest this crop of publicity and withit in his pocket, his press in his pocket. He sends rine back to Dallas with Ruth Payne and popes to Mexico.

And he noes to the Cuban Consulate and he says,'Dear Comrades, here am I such a wonderful friend of Castro. Deal. what I do for Castro. So he can get into Cuba. And they say, it'll take three months.

CINHON: What do you think Harold, to interrupt for a second, what do you think Harvey Oswald's mind at this point, what is he doing this for, to assassinate Castro?

WEISBERG: _No, but, I think someone else planned it and that's the next sten in the story. Planned just the way you said. They asked him why he wanted a visa to get into Cuba and he of course, had to give them a reason. And he probably hadn't thought this one out too well because he said he really wants to go to the Soviet Union. Well, in 1963, it was not difficult to go from the United States to the Soviet Union but, it was very difficult to go from the Unite- States to Cuba. So, when Oswald was told it would take three months, to get a visa he blew his stack. He got in an argu-ment with them. They told him he was no friend of the revolution and they chased him out. And then he went back to Dallas and the rest of the story is fairly well known. Now, then we had the assassination. One of the first things the FBI learned, within a couple of weeks of the assassination was of the visit to the home of a Itrs. Sylvia Odio(?) a genuine Cuban refugee, whose parents had been among the wealthiest in Cuba. In Dallas, three men, two of whom were soliciting her support in anti-Castro activities, the third one was introduced

as Leon Oswald at a time when the evidience was overwhelming, it

could not have been Lee Harvey Oswald.

CANNON: Well, who is this new Leon Oswald?

WEISBERG: I don't know. I called him the false Oswald

in chapter eleven of Whitewash which I'm about to begin.

CANNON: T..7m hum.

WEISBERC: I think this is really the beginning of the Garrison

story. And they say of this Weald that, I don't know about the

exact line—our idea is to introduce him to the underFnuund because

he is kind of nuts. And about knocking off Castro.

CANNO: Well, how do we know he wasn't the real Oswald?

WEISB=G: Because of the date. The Commission says it couldn't have been Lee Harvey Oswald because he was in Mexico. The iimilgration records show Khen he crossed the border. And if it was Lee Narvey Wwild, then the Commission was much mcre in

erroe tIlan I've seen theca and they've been pretty grieviously in error. hut, either way, either way. I'd like to discuss it,

if it was °staid, I'd like to discuss ittif it wasn't, when I tell you the rest of the CIA background.

Neu, in. the next part. of what this man who was Lakin;* the Leon Oswald around said is, he has told us that we don't have any guts you Cubans because President Kennedy should•have been ass-

assinated after the Lay of Pigs and some Cuban should have done that. It is ao and he will do it. He has told us. Now, this is from Sylvia Odibs(?)testimony. Sylvia Odloa was not (tilled as a

witness, until the twenty third. of July, 1963. A month after the

Commission was suppose to have finished its work. After,there was

a kind of an investigation.

Now, here we have a man--

CANNON: Was she shown a oieture of Lee Harvey Oswald?

WEISBEMG: Yes, she said it was him, same guy. There were

some differences she pointed out the differences but, she was satis-

fied it was Oswald. She was so satisfied as a natter offact, that

before she saw Oswald's picture on television, this conversation

with these Cubans with whonm she thereafter had nothing to do, and they were well prepared. Whey knew the most intimate details

of her family, her father .who was then in jail in the Isle of Pines,

the Commission printed her father's letter saying, I don't know these

people, don't talk to them anymore. It was really carefully pre-

pared.

She was so certain, when she found out, getting back to work,

that the President had been killed, she passed out because she-really

believed he had done it. Now, we have Oswald in New Orleans. I've given you a little bit of it. ,Then we have the murder. We've got this threat to kill the President of the United Sta'es and by God,

it happened. He was killedl° As you may remember, from the very

beginning, there was never any official doubt about it. Lee Harvey' Oswald was along, assisted, allegedly proecemmunist assassin.

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With all of that, on November 25, 1963 the PSI in New Orleans started a crash Investigation of the Cuban Revolutionary Council and I have some of the reports here in my hand. Unfortunately, the Commission with twenty six volumes and ten million words,' didn't see fit to print these. I had to dig them out of their surpreesed files.

CANNON: You mean the place where supressed files--Professor Thompson is there a place where supressed files, if. so Harold, how: did you set them?

THOMPSON: Well, I don't know what suppressed filed means. You mean the documents themselves that are in the Archives and

,available to anybody who wants to take a look at them?

WEISPEPG: Some of the files in the Archive are available to those who can 2:6t qualified. That I am saying is that--

•1707!?7,71U: Cll r where dig you eet them?

WEISBERG: T got them. from. the Archive.

THOMFON! To„they weren't suppressed.-

IF7M7,71: Mr. Thompson, I want to answer that in two ways. And they were eueeressed. M)11., I'm eoine to toll eou rhy S think that. rir:,:t of all, there is a quagmeyer(?) of three hundred cubic feet of uncoaltted, reterial - and you've Ent to have a nose like nO Beagle ever had, to get the stuff you want. Just having; it there with all the undulated elateritl, with no index, no meaninrful des-cription - of any of the ducluments,•no way of finding anything.

THOMPSON: I suppose that if they destroyed flinty per cent of them, they would be much waster to find. Would•you rather have them do that? since you take offense at them bunting their notes.

WEISBERG: A6,, I wouldn't rather have them do that. But, I don't think that in aneway justifies what theydid do?

THOMPSON: What did they do?

W2ISDZHO: They printed twenty six volumes, ten million words of evidence, and they 'left this stuff out. But, pictures of--

THOMPSON: Well, they couldn't very well haveprinted three hundred cubic yards of documents could they?

WEISBERG: Well, they found space for Ruby's strippers. They found a place for also-- all sorts of stuff that didn't have to be printed...

THOMPS014: Well, maybe that's the value of it.

WEISBERG: Well will you please tell me why it was necesaary to print pictures of Ruby's hard-faced and soft-bodied women, page - after page after page as part of the murder of the PRESIDENT.

•

THOPTSON: Well--

CANNON: Let -me just interrupt here for a second. I have a couple of things to do.

CANNON: I think the point you're getting at Harold. I don't want to get off on the strippers, not that that might not be an interdsting topic of conversantion. nu're trying to say, I think, that the Cuban Revolutionary Council and Oswald and the CIA are all in the samehig, aren't you?

WEISBERG: Right.

CA.H=T: Harold, I want to gat back to the cbrebbiny and your attempt to link Lee Karvey Osuald with the Cuban

. Revolutionary Council and both withthe'CIA...

TTOMPrON: Can we straighten out one thing first though. Since he's now revealed that the documents he said were suppressed are available in the archives to- hin and to anybody else who wants them,'T imacine he'll withdraw his charge that they're beinrr suppressed.

WEIST77151: No, not at All. THey were deliberately suppressed. As a wiriful act on the part of the staff of the Commission, censored from the 26 volumes which were published...

THOPSON: You mean they weren't published in the report?

WEIS=C: Not only not in ,the report, but not in the 26 volumes of evidence.

THOMPSON: But they are in the archives?

WEIS:3=G: How many people can go to the archives? The conclusions of the Commission alleged]; are based upon the 26 volumes they printed. THis is suppressed from the Commission's conclusions. NOt only that, but when a witness got the name of the Cuban Revolutionary Council in, that was censored out by the indexer. -

'CANNON: Harold, could we use the woridselected or selectivity rather than suppressed.

- WEISBERG: When you have a proper name indexed, you can use any name you want -- any way yoU wastitit, it is not there.

THOMPSW: So, your charge is that unleos the government printed every single document and every single line that was involved at all in the investigation -- the ones they left out were suppressed.

WEISBERG: That is not true. I didn't charge that and

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don't think that's any reasonable interpretation of what I did sya. I'd said that when they leave out what is very germane...

THOMPSON: In your opinion.

WEISBERC: Well, I can't give you anybody else's opinion except mine. Dut would you care to bear what these reports are and then maybe you'll want to say something, Mr. Thompson.

THOMPSC:N, Alright.

WEISBERG: I have 3 reports here by an man who in "Oswald in New Orleans" I ca*11 On the Ball Wall.

CANNON : Who?

waIsszRo: ON the Ball Wall. I felt that this an was worthy of being noted in history for being on the wall.. He an FBI agent, 1.7rnest C. Wall Jr. On the 25th of November„ renarkably the same day Jim Garrisdn arrested David Ferrie, in connection with the assassination. Most people don't know this, but I have the story in 'Uswald in New Orleans . David Ferrie was not arrested by Garrison as part of his current investigation. He was arrested by Garrison on the 25th of November 1963 in NeW Orleans. YOu will not find a reference to this in the NarrentHeport...

CANNON: That charge 1,.us he arrested on Harold?

• WZISBERC:. Suspicion of being wanted in Texas or something like that. I don't immember the legal charge and as you ,know I"A NOT a lawyer.

Garrison released him when he eras Rersuaded by the FBI and the secret service that there was no reason to hold him. That he was connected with nothing.

THOMPSON: Some reason that shoulu be in the Warren Report/

WEISBERG! Would pou care to ask me that question in about 5 minutes, Mr. Thompson. The anwer is yes.

ON that same day, Mr. Wall had this really on the ball investigation of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. Now here's Oswald, a lone unassisted assassin. For example, here& the report from File Number 89-69 dated the 25th, as I told tem. (WORD UNCLEAR) 1608 Masonsmith Avenue,matare (?), Louisianna, so forth. Six lines.

This report says merely that Frank Rarths was a delegate of the 'Alban Revolutionary Council in Now Orleans, that he knew Arcacia Smith - Sergio Arcacia Smith, had been formerly the delegate of the Cuban Revolutionary Council, and that the Cuban Revolutionary Council was an anti-Castro organization.

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Now there was no purpose in the to learn this. It was all very Revolutionary Council, so there was organized by the CIA in the on the 19th of March 1961.

1713 conducting any investigation well known. • The Cuban will be no secret about it, Skylark Mote/ in Miami Florida

CANNON:. This is where I've got to come in and say, Is this anoopin ion, an assumption, a fact, or I mean, how do we know this. Can we prove it?

WEIP117,11 Well the simplest way is to refer you to Arthpr Schlesinger's book, he has about 20 pages on it. Including his own participation. It's a thousand days.

The purpose -- well, there were a number of purposes First, and the CIA was very explicit in talking to the Cuban groups. They said we can't deal wdth a hundred of you. They 7.ot the 2 •birmest and they said you really get together. ONe r7.-pun can. f!eal with. Thin lmr proparatory to the - Ba7s of P"..771 or the N'holo deal Is otf. And -they out them toryether at the ,!-'.kylark MOtel and the Cuban Revolutionary council evolved. Tt was cgonn UNCLE:AR) to the CIA that its

/ policy mtatements were drafted by the OTA and then sent •• over tothe Whitt, House for approval. And Selolning.7,4r discusses his pwn participation in that.

- CANNON low what lya.5 Tie csgald -- fit into this?

F-FIE,BF7Th This is part of the story I'm tellinz; you.

- Peterter *'ran]: Bartes, relegate of the cuban Revolutionary council in New nr/eans was.interviewed by Wall. This report • serves only. one purpose.. If anybody ever said to the nt, by the way did you ever speak to '_"rank Bartes and find out about the Cuban Revolutionary Council.' Oh Ilean, we spoke to him and wee got nothing.

The next report, because it says nothing, this was all well known.

The next report, the same day, by the same man. Says that he telephonically interviewed Guy Bannister, This meant he culdn't walk across the street. Guy Bannister's office was as readily visited by the FBI as a dog visits the neighborhood rearbage pails. Guy nanniater Guy Bannister Associates, 531 Lafayette Street, New Orleans was telephonically conntacted. Bannister advised that he knew Arcacia Smith of the Cuban Revolutionary casually, and so forth and so on and that Smith had an office in the building located at 540 snick Street. Now, the next FBI report also by Wall, says that he spoke to the owner of the building and he couldn't add amd he gouldn't add anything to. it.

That the 7BI left out here, t1r. Thompson doesn't like suppressed, left out...

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THOMPSON: I don't like suppnissed in the improper context. I'm perfectly willing to accept suppressed when something is Suppressed.

WEISBERG: What the FBI left out was what the Secret Service did not leave out. And that is that Guy Bannister arranged for the rental of the office space by the Cuban Revolutionary Council. Now these reprts - one gives the-Cuban Revolutionary Council Address at 540 i4lick Street and the other one gives the address of Guy Bannister at 531 Lafayette Street,. Would you mind looking kt that picture I took in New Orleans Mr. Thompeon?

CANNON; Want to get a close up of that Jack? I wish we had television, we've got tons of documents here.

WEISBERG: That is a. street sign, Don you keep ma honest, it shows that there are two signs on one pole. One says Knick Street, the other says Lafayette.

0.4N14ON: Correct. But where does Leon Oswald come into all of this?

WEISB7;PG: The one and the same building. They gave a side entrance to the building as Bannisters- address. This dinky, little, three story building,. hardly larger/than a Private home, in which Bannister's office was separated by the thickness of one floor from the Cuban Revolutionary Council that he arranged. Arid the. VHI in New Orleans pretended to the. FBI in Washington, and tnrough it to the Commission, that there was no connection between these two...

CANNON: First you use the .word pretendedd-- gotta stop you there. Pretended?

WEISBERG: Here are the reports. First report says the Cuban Tlevolutionary Council's address was 540 Knick Street. The second one pretends that Guy Bannister knew nothing about all this. He just happened to know Arcacia casually, and...

THOMPSON: But I don't understand what the CIA involvement in the Cuban Revolutionary Council, which i suppose was formed for the purpose of overthrowing Castro, has to do-with Oswald.

WEISBERG: Well, if you'll let me go right to the end of this. I'd much lrather deliver this in a logical way...

CANNON: I'm going to stop for $ust a couple of minutes and link or unlink Lee Harvey Oswald withthe CIA...

CANNON: Harold you still haven't linked Lee Harvey Oswald with the Cuban Revolutionary Council or the CIA.

WEISBERG: There Don is Commission Exhibit 4120. The lower right hand corner -- this is one of the leaflets that was taken from Oswald when he was arrested on August 9, 1963. And what I told you, is to me nothing tut the establishment of an intelligence cover. It has the return address of 51 Q Knick Street.

CANNON: :,-Id that's the Same address as the Cuban Revolutionary council.

WETS:=7 It is exactly the address of Guy Lanni:ter who was in on livery Latin American operation of the CIA. I have, since I wrote Oswald in New Orleans, traced important functionaries of the Cuban groups to to Bannister's office.

CANNON: Now, let us say, people listening can't see this, but these are domuments. The document is printed, but bLe return address is etampad -- how do We know that that address' was stamped on there by Lee Oeald at the tin-le or later by somebody else.

TATISBMfl; A good question. I cant .say that it wasn't done later by somebody else but I can say this Commieeion proves it wile done with the stamps that they found on %weld's property. Iou know, where you assemble your own. etampe, and this is in evidence before the Commies .on.

Now, here we have Oewald, allegedly, engaged in pro-Castro activity; eivine out pro-Caste:iv literature that soecbody else had printed for him - the Comnission says he did under the name Osborne -- he goes out and creates a non-existing Fair Flee . for Cuba Coemittee •in :dew Orleans. ke asked to bo interviewed by the .F31, and we're'supposed to believe that this is all perfectly normal, that every communist wants only to be interviewed by the FBI.

going along with this we have this fellow Ferrie. Remember I mentioned him before. Wesley Lieber (?), who was the Assistant Council together with ir. Gener (?) of Ceicago, in charge of the New Orleans investigation - and in fairness to Mr. Gener, I should say that Wesley Lieber on ilay 2nd of last year made a speech at UCLA, said that he, Wesley Lieber, had to do all of it, because 14r. Gener was too busy running for the presidency of the American Bar Association. So this really is not very much Mr. Oener's fault. It'S Mr. Lieber'e. He says so himself. Lieber says he alone decide not to call Ferrie before the Commission. Why? Because he had this big stack of FBI reports,and on different occasions he describes different stie stacks. And he said they proved that Ferrie was connected with nothing. Now here is another one of the FBI reports from Commisision's File Number 71 - the first part of it. And for the time being I won't say this was suppressed.

Where - here's C. 1,Jall again, same FBI agent and here's David Ferrie, and Ferrie is known to have threatened to kill the president. And he says, oh well, that's only a colloquial

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expression, kill the president, that's only a colloquial expression. I have a chapter in 'Oswald in New Orleans" called the assassination enolloquial expression. So here we have David Ferrie, known to have threatenen to kill the President - not called as a witness before the Commission that was investigating the President's murder...

CANNON, net isn't it true, Harold, that every year white.HOuse gets thousands of threats on the President's life.

WEISDnnl. Yee, but it isn't every year that tiia ''resident gets killed.

CANNON: I want to get Jim Thompson's reaction on the last couple of minutes on this portion of the show.

To the . linkage that Mr. Weisberg has presented here.m Linking Lee Harvey Oswald with the Cuban Revolutionary Council on the assumption that the Cuban Eevolutionary Coucil is the CIA or;,:anigation.

112MSBEW: Well, one thing missing, but I won't interrupt the professor's time and that has to do with Ferris and the Cuban Revolutionary Council and the CIA. I wanted you to ;snow professor, that there's orle more link. o ahead.

THO:,,nn3Cnn: 40 sinutes ado, I was given to understand that you had evidence that there was first a link between Oswald and the CIAand secondly that there was somehow in this Oswald and CIA link, a connection to tine assassination. And in 40 minutes I haven't heard a single words which proves either of thAse things.

WEISEENG7 Let me take up Eterrie again...

CANNON: Let me just hold that point for a minute. You are not convinced, Porfessor Thompson, by the Gocunents Mr.

-Weieberz has shown, ba the assumption that the Cuban Revolutionary Council was organized by the CIA. that Lee Harvey Oswald's return address was the same as the Cuban Revolutionary Council this is not convincing,

THOMPSON Suppose I had in my pocket a pamphlet printed by the Cuban Revolutionary Council which had their address on it. That doesn't prove that I'm connected with the CIA, does it?

CANNON! It proves that you're connected with the Cuban Revolutionary Council.

THOMPSON: I may have pickett up the leaflet on a street corner.

WEISBERG: That is correct...

CANNON: We got to break...

I.

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CANNOU: - Harold, for people who tuned in late, if I can briefly sumrarize your points. YOurposition is simply this,

.that Lee Harvey Osvald. !rifled nobody, that Oswald was a front for whatever organizations, he deliberately pretneded tobe a leftist when he in fact was a rightinst, that he was either directly or indirectly in the pay of . the CIA, the

m Cuban Revolutionary- Council - Oswald was a member of it and that it was forned by,the CIA, and therefore there's a Connection between all 3 and the assassination. Am I wrong?

-171=17.f.7: '::e1/, not that he was a member of the . Cuban Revolutionary Council. Yes that Oswald was exactly the opposite of what he was officially represented as being. I merely referred to a speech Wesley Lieber (?) made and he was the an who was In charge of this aspect of the investigation, he's. the man who decided not to call Ferrie as a witness in the investigation of the President's murder because rerrie had threatened to kill the presidant and this :reo, 1:rol-rn to the PDT. Lieber also :!,n this speoch, acnowledged knotrin7 that 7errl.e and Arcacia, nergic Arcacia, the man from TSI agent Wall's reports, knew each other, acknowledged having known that the CIA had financed, as he put it, - financed_ the .Cuban Revolutionary' Council at 54 1.*7nIck Street, and also arrarently reasons "or not calling 7:7-,rrie or Areaci8. as witnesses. -

There ,.las a bit of Os aid's background that r durf.'ur, for this book Oswald in 7ew Orleans that T did not find in the Commisnion's 'ilex. because if they exist there, they are among the documents, would you be happier if I said withIbld, Mr Thompson...

THO'ITS01: they're available 30 they couldn't be withheld.

WEISBET1: As a matter of fact, they're not available. •Most or this tile is withheld and I think, repressed, especially on Ferrie. Office David Ferrie, and he has been dead for a year, so he is certainly not being protected. Since ha's not alive to be Protected by the withholding of more than 75% of the Ferric file.

THTTSO: If they've been withhild how did you get them?

WEISBEnG: I ain't get them. I'm talking about -- those are withheld.

Now Oswald was a Maria*. A communist according to the Commission, with a dedication to communism and to marxism. And for this reason Marine Corps put htm in an unusual organization in which it only had three. He took specialized training and wouid up with Confidential Security Clearance. and he had to to be On thit outfit because everybody in the outfit had to have a minimum of a Confidential Security Clearance which is not the lowest. IN Oswald's case,bowever, he was one of 5 men who had a Security Clearance known as Crypto (?).

And as a pre-requisite for Crypto, he had to have a top secret security clearance because his Job required cryto- AndphicakpeWled4tistiellw#M1 VP'ete4sA4sOdoEoa4vt4 fFgat --.radar codes, all of the radar defense for the west coast, a4aref kbeufetque4siegeegswald was in a U-•2 outfit in Japan and what more natural place for them to have a communist,

huh?

THOMPSON: What Marine organization was this?

WEISBERG: MACS it was called.

CANNON: Did they know about his hawkground, Harold?

WEISBERO: Openly through the mail, Oswald got Communist literature. Openly in the Marine Corp. He -learned 'Tuteian in the Marine Corp.

CANNON: Learning Russian is one thing. And then--

72ISBERG: He got his discharge two months ahead or tire to take care of a destitute mother so, ne to4k a trit,to

New Orleans and went to Russia.

THOMPSON: How can something sent through the nail be opened?

WEISBERG: In the Marine Corp he got the Communist literature .openly.

TUOVPSONn That do you mean openly?

WTEISBERG: I mean , you get a newsoaner by mail?

THTIPSON! All riRht.

WEISBERG: all riRht, let me put itt very hluntly, t'leeman who distributed the mail was his Sargent Russel Delr7ado (?) who said that everybody knew. knew and could S that Oswald was eettine this communist literature.

CANN04: lalowine a little bit about the Marine Core ; I can imaeine that --c4mmunist are not very popular.

WEISBERG: That right.

CANNON: In the Marine Corp, I can't imagine somebody not blowing the whistle. Can you professor?

TNO-IPSON: No, I can't imagine that at all.

WrIt3FBG: I suggest that they didn't have to. Ina,, thee knew exactly what Oswald was doing and that's why they tausht him Tlussian.

TNOYPSON: Somehow the Aarine Corn is aomeho4 Involved in this assassination plot?

WEISBERG: I didn't say that at all.

-15--

CANNON!, Harold Weisberg is my guest along with Professor James Thompson. Harold, it seems to me that you're bringing the Marine Corp into the plot here.

WEISBERG: As part of Oswald's intellleance function, but not as part of the conspiracy to kill the President.

CANNON! What was. this Marine organization again?

WEISBERC: MACS-9.

THOMPSON: What is that?

WEISBERG! Marine Air Control.

THOMPSON: And what's their job?

WE/SBERC: Their Job was tadar deftisiA, identification of friend and foe. • .

(VOIEES OVERLAPPING)

. WEISBERG! OSWALD was one of the five men who had the Rhiehest clearence, top secret and crypto..

THOMPSON: • In the whole Marine Corp?•

WEISBERG: No, no, no, in this outfit. He operated the radar, he was the one who in effect decided if this•was a friend or a foe.

THOMPSON- He was one of bhe radar operators?

WEISBERG: Not just a radar operator because they were all of this character.

THOMPSON: He turned babtons or something like that? What was his job?

WEISBERG: The Commission spent less time on this evidence than they might very well have. And I can't here just hive you a definite answer on that. Well, let me tell you what his commanding officer said. That Oswald was one of about a half dozen of the best men in his outfit and he trusted him to do things and that he did them well.

THOMPSON: What did he do? mean if he was a train keeper,

WEISBEPO: Does it take a Crypto sechrity test to be'a train--keeper?

THOMPSON! That's why I'm trying to understand What job Oswald -performed that reeuired all this top secret clearence and lolly that was relevant?

WEICBERG! Well it would--

(VOICES OVERLAPPING)

-16-

- WEISBERG: Are you seriously asking me Professor, are you seriously asking-me about the federal government representing OSWALD who had been dedicated to communism and Marxism and after haVing given him a Crypto security test at the same time? Are you seriously suggesting to - me that that means nothing? When this man is discharged early he goes tcaRussia and then says he's defecting but,. is very careful nobto lose.his citizen-ship. And he says he'sgiving all these secrets, you haven't asked me what secrets yet, all these secrets --all of the United States defense secrets to the Soviet Union which is, a criminal act? Then he wants to comeback to the United States and he Says he won't, come without his wife? And the State Department breaks its back to get his wife back that when the Ienigration service won't let her in, they try to bring her in through Brussels and meanwhile put pressure on the Immigration '..arvice and comes back to the United States and is not prceecuted? And out of all the times he was suppose to have been denied a passport, no watch card was ever filled out, and this all bureaucratic bungling?

THOMPSON: You mean to say that Oswald is guilty of turning over the plans of the entire defense of the United States to the Soviet. Union?

WETSDERG: Professor, stop talking like the Warren Commission.

CANFON: If i can Just pause here for a moment, I want to get to what the larger point of all this means. Does it seen that Lee Harvey Oswald was put UP to go into ;tussle by tie Ma- rine Corp. by the CIA or the Sa3I? If I. can get that answer in sixty seconds. 'W11 come. right back...

If I

CANNON: What does all this mean though Harold?

::EISB77O:. To answer your question, i say yes. The qaestion was, was Oswald put up to something and there's no queetloe ie ny mind. •

CANNON: Do we have to indict the Marine Corp?

WEISBERG: No, I'm not indicting the Marine Corp. That was the professor's suggestion which is foreign to my thinking, my writing and my speaking:- Now, here we have Oswald who has done all of these things. The state departnent brines him back. They don't fill out the cards. they're suppose to to keep nim from getting a passport. And the FBI knows about him. Poski(?) was the Os-wald exrmrt in Dallas. One of the things the Cornission had remarkedly little interest in was the state rent by Dallas Lieutenant Levall...and Poski said we knew he had the capability but we - didn't think he'd do it. Poski said,it didn't happen, Levall said it did happen. • But, can you imagine a man .with thits gen-uine history and he goes to Dallas and is not under surveillance,

Do you think for one minute that if Oswald was geeuinely defecting to the Soviet Union , he would not have been under surveillance when the President went to Dallas?

-17-

] And there was one document that the Commission saw fit to eliminate from the ten million words. It was a very brief one. A Dallas police report of February 17, 1964 of an interview with Ceorae Miller, whole Russian nate was (?), he was one of the refuaee...let me just read briefly this. I can tell you that 'Ailey Lieber was interrogating Mrs. Anna Miller who had seen Das Kapitaled in Oswald's home and was outraged, told her husband and he called the FBI. So, when I, say subject reading from the Dallas police report, that means Miller.

CANNON: Um hum.

WMT3DERG: Subject said he checked with the FBI and they told him that Oswald was all right. Oswald, with all of this history, was all right to the :APT before the assassination. Anna Miller was a witness before the Commission and Wesley Lieber never asked her question. Normally, there were only three aeoole in the hearing room, the lawyer entitled to administer the oath, the steno- aranher, and the witness. In this case, Lieber was a little bit effusive and said come right in me.. and.Mrs. Miller. He didn't even ask a single nuestion of George Miller.

CANNON: Harold, you explained that Lee Harvey iiswald's whole defection role to Russia was a put up job and the FBI knew it was a put up job and therefore, they did, not keep him under surveillance in Dallas.

7.7aISBERG: I think that's the most reasonable peesumption of it and I'm sure that he was working for federal agents. The Com-mission got a report immediately. Some of these documents have been published. Some of them have not been. that Oswald was a fed-eral agent getting two. hundred dollars a month and so forth.

3.1

TUOMPSON: Can you tell me one thing. Supposing that every-tihng that you've said is true, let's assume that Oswald was in lea ,711e with the CIA and that together they planned It---the assassination, why would they do ite and why would the Warren Commission cover it up?

WEISDERG: Professor, I'd like to suagest to you that you should have been on the Warren Commission. You keep on saying things I didn't gay.

{VOICES OVERLAPPING)

WEISI3ERG: You have wuoted me as saying exactly the opposite of what .I said. You said that I say Oet*ad and the CIAarot to-gether and started to kill Kennedy. And I say exactly the opposite that Oswald killed nobody.

THOMPSON: Then why are we quarreling- about Oswald and the CIA being connected? What relevance does it have? I thought that mou were golaea to came to some conclusion about why -- I just wanted to know if Oswald and the CIA were toeether?

WEISBERGa That's one question I didn't expect to hear from a professor of law.

-18-

WEISBERG: We're discussing the death of an American President.

We're talking about not only the sanctity of an institution, but

that of the law. Now, among the things that I've read to you,,

• that the Commission saw fit to leave out of twenty six volumes

was the knowledge that Oswald was okay to the FBI before the ass-

assination. Is that a normal thine professor? Is the FBI in

the business of going around telling odds and ends of people

who call up don't worry about Oswald, he's okay? Or about any-

body else?

CANNON: We're talking ;with Harold Weisberg, author of Os-

wald in Dallas and Whitewash and Whitewash II and upcoming, a book

called Whitewash III. Professor ThomOson, you wanted to

reply so go ahead please.

THOMPSON: One of the things we look for in the trial of

criminal cases is motive. Except when we're dealing with people

who are insane and therefore may have no motive but, we like to

know what the motive is for committing a criminal offeise because

it aids us in determining whether or not the man really did it.

If he had a motive to kill, that's some evidence that per-

haps he was the killer other evidence going with it. If he hag

no motive, it's one of those things, it might raise a reasonable

doubt in the fact whether or not.he did it. Nole you're saying that

the Warren Commission has suppreseed, to use your word, relevant

- evidence with connections between the VIA and Oswald, what-

ever purposes those connectthnns serve. Why did they do it?

What was the motive of the Warren Commission in doing all of this?

WEISBERO: Well, uh---I don't say the members of the Commission

consciously did this. But, it's not an unf.ir renresentat6nn

of my belief about the staff. And I think the most dramatic may

6f giving you an answer is to give you arquestion. Why did the CIA

knowing it was a lie, assure President .Eisenhower that the Francis

Gary Powers plane was not American, it not rver the Soviet Union,

and they knew damn well it was. They sent it there and they

knew it wae. miesing and couldn't be anyplace else/

This is not unique in governments. They're hiding the involve-

ment of the CIA. How, the CIA involvement could have been innorent. •

Sktply because of these connections, people who had been connected

with them might not have been connedted with them-then.

THOMPSON: Let's assume the Commission--

WEISBEPO: The one thing that you said before I can't ignore.

We hate not now adjusted•ourselved to the major burden of the

evidence. The simplest way of proving that Oewnd was innocent

because the Commission proved that he couldn't have been at the

scene of the crime.

THOMPSON: Let's assume for the moment that the Commission did

suppress this involvement of Oswald with the CIA. That Will

doesn't answer the question of why they did it?

WEISBERG: Why don't you\ask them that?

-19-

I'm only telling you what they did and it's irreputable what they did.

THOMPSON: But, this has nothing to do with anybody elses motive to kill the President which is where you started. What you're asking se to believe is that they did something horrible and they suppressed all of these relevant things but, you're able to give me no reason In the world why they should do it.

WEISBERG: Do you want me to get inside of somebody elses mind?

CANNON: Harold, we're talking about more than somebody else. We're talking about a lot of people who worked with us so that all of these people would have to be part --

mamma: Their concept of what is quote, national security, quote..at the bottom of page two hundred and three, you'll find a picture from page two thirteen of the Report.

(TECHNICAL )IFFICULTIES)

WEISBERG: ...A picture taken by James W. Watson(?), an ' Associated Press photographer. Above it is most of the picture, I hadn't yet framed the complete picture and I think you'll admit that more than half of it has been eliminated.

CANNON: Harold, you're going to have to describe--

WEISBERG: This picture taken half way through the assassination shows among other things. The president's car, he's gripping his throat, the car behind him, And when the version printed by the Commission, it does not show the two cars behind that. It does not show the building across the street. The point that I'm trying to make, is it has nothing to do with the contents of thspicture, it has to do with this debasement of every legal #ro-cedure.

CANNON: Now, wait a minute, how does the elimination of a couple of motorcycle officers and the car behind him --

WEISBERG: The point is this, James W. Watson was a witness before the Commission. He was not asked to disclose the equipment he used. He was not asked to produce the negative. Ve was not asked to produce a print. And the Commission put in evidence at no time the completepicture. This is required in the court of law. It happened even worse with the Zapruder pidture. The Commission says that for the first time the President could have been shot by Lee Harvey Oswald in frame 210. So, you go to volime Nineteen, page eighteen and you find that in printing the frames of the Zapruder pictures, they skipped from 207 to 212 and the splices are quite clear. And this is a big mystery until I brought it to light.

' Professor, do I have to tell you as a professor of law what this is? The law ,requires, does it not, original evidence? Au thenticated by the person who can authenticate it?

THOMPSON: Sure.

-20-

WEISBERG: Well, the original Zapruder pictures is not in evidence. The copy that vas pat in evidence was switched for another copy that was a copy of that made by the FBI. The frames that were allegedly aware of the President being killed had been destroyed.

May I suggest the reason for the destruction regardless of the cause is a verysimple one. Because they contained total dis-proof of the first shot hated aimed after two ten.

*

. CANNON: Harold, your last statement again I would think and perhaps Jim Thompson would agree with me, require some pretty strong motives if the Zapruder film was deliberately'doctored--

WEISBERG: ....It happened. Was this Life Magazine that did it?

CANNON: Life has the film right?

WEISBERG: Life has the original. The Commission printed what represented an unterrupted series of slides beginning with the one hundred and teventy first of the frames of this picture. It had--at no place is there any reflection of the fact that the Commission members would even know this Was there.

THOMPSON: You mean to say that the people who cut this film and the Commission who presented it for tht&r purposes thought that they could get away with doing something knowing that. Life Maga-zine had the full film?

WEISBERG: - Well Life has been silent about it and the Commission has been silent about it. And I have not been. It happened.

THOMPSON Well, Life printed he film?

WEISBERG: I beg your pardon. They did not.

THOPPSON: They did not?

CANNON: . What's in those Live frames though?

WEISBERG: What is there is. not the important thing. In my way of thinking, it's what's not there. tow, Phil. Willis took a picture...

CANNON: Now, wait a minute, I think we have to retrack, we don't know what's not there--

WEISBERG: I'm sorry. We do know what's not there.

CANNON: Im the five missing frames?

WEISBERG: We know one thing that's not there.

CANNON: What?

WEISBERG: A man who took a picture at the same moment and he and Zapruder were In each other's lenses. His name is Phil Willis His picture was entered into evidence and the PSI avoided it.

-21-

THOMPSON! What's that got to do with anything?

WEISBERG: it's got to do wither lot. May I please finish? You haven't mentioned one of my books, the least well non one. I have an entire book on the suppression and destruction of pictures called,' Photo--

CANNON: Can I plead not guilty. I've mentioned your books.

WEISBERG: Not this one.

CANNON: Oh, I see. Photographic Whitewash.

WEISBERG: And I went through this whole subject in some detail the Commission didn't see five per cent of the pictures of the ass-aseination that we know now existed.

THOMPSON: What was done to the pictures to make them important for the Commission to see?

WEISBERG: Well, let me give you an exqmple with what I just started to talk about--Phil Willis. But, if any of your listeners call Up, they can get this by writing to me to get it. I don't think it's on sale in Chicago. Phil Willis took a dozen pictures... wall, if we had more time, I think you might change your opinionw May I continue with Phil Willis?

CANNON: Yes, you say.

WEISBERG: Here at the upper part of photographic exhibit 25 is Phil Wills' picture. The Commission said that it was taken instantaneous with the assassination. It's not quite true. Willis wasn't quite ready to take the picture and all the evidence and there's much of it bears on this. It was the shot that triggered his involun-tary action khen he took the picture.

CANNON: What does the picture show?

WEISBERG: The picture le a view from the opposite side of Za-pruder. You!ll see the FBI chart with a straight line in the middle showing what would be in each others lenses at the top of the chart and below it, Mr. Thompson. It's'the opposite view from Zapruder's.

CANNON: Right, but what does it show?

WEISBERG: What is missing in the missing frames.

CANNON: In the missing Zapruder frames?

WEISBERG: Yes.

CANNON: And what do they show?

WEISBERG: they show --Willis, having taken the camera down from his eye, at frame 202, having alreddy taken the picture of the Pre-sident being shot at frame 202, he has already taken the camera

` down from his eye and is waling away professor.

THOMPSON: What does that prove?