Gordon Mazibrada - VN680069 PELITAN, RONALYN 0to25 Domondon

8/3/2019 Gordon Mazibrada - VN680069 PELITAN, RONALYN 0to25 Domondon

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WORK-LIFE BALANCE POLICIES OF THE TRUST

(Audio started 00:01:05)

Gratien David: Thank you Gordon for your time.

Gordon Mazibrada: No problem here.

Gratien David: I knew your job title. Which department do you work for?

Gordon Mazibrada: Thats Neurology.

Gratien David: Neurology, okay.

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah.

Gratien David: And how long had you worked at the trust?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, at this trust, since 2003.

Gratien David: Okay.

Gordon Mazibrada: I became a consultant in 2006.


Gordon Mazibrada: Prior to that, I was registrant. Yeah.

Gratien David: Okay. And how many people report to you directly?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, theres a team of SPRs so how many -- it depends, five, six,

seven -- depending how many at reserve at a given time plus three or four essentials...


Gordon Mazibrada: Plus the nurses, we have three specialist nurses -- MS Specialist

nurses who report to me.

Gratien David: Okay. And so are you -- how many hours do you work in a week?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, same as other guys so. Its just -- I suspect they work --

well, its nine to five, thats what -- 40 hours, probably more than 50 hours.

Gratien David: More than 50 hours?


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Gordon Mazibrada: yeah definitely because you know -- Every day I stay longer I

work at the (Inaudible) (00:01:13) as well.


Gordon Mazibrada: Plus the travelling time. So its more than 50 hours.



Gratien David: And do you work Monday to Friday or is it a 24/7 --

Gordon Mazibrada: Yes, Monday to Friday, yeah.

Gratien David: Okay, great.

Gordon Mazibrada: Im on call. Its a -- 24 hour on call from home, and thats threetimes a year for a week.



Gratien David: Are you personally making use of any flexible working options abouttrust?

Gordon Mazibrada: Id love the possibility of a flexible working option simply becauseof the work load.



Gratien David: So what time do you normally start on working?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, I come here at nine and then -- and thats - what else, -- Six,

you know, On Wednesday have to stay longer but its -- apart from Friday, I tend to leaveat five thirtyish there about...


Gordon Mazibrada: Thursday, Im not working here anyway. Tuesday, I work longer

hours with hope (ph), this was my second rounds with them.


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Gordon Mazibrada: Monday I stay longer here -- Wednesday I stay longer here.


Gordon Mazibrada: And moving on to your view on work-life balance. Balance means

different to different people.

Gratien David: Yeah.

Gordon Mazibrada: What is your understanding of balance -- of work-life balance?

Gratien David: Well, I dont think I would clear understanding what that is, you see.

Gordon Mazibrada: Right.

Gratien David: So I think my impression is that we work too much. I think in terms of

a -- I mean, for example, if we look at the number of neurologists per population, there isaround 170, 108 thousand people on one neurologist. If you go to Europe, the numbers

are much lower like for example, in anytime would be (ph), one in thirty or forty

thousand, so hence the workload is much higher for us. Second thing is I have a special

interest in AMS. MS chronic condition, not many people look up to, but you know, fromthe neurologist point of view look like people of conditions (ph) have interest in them, so

therefore the workload is increasing their chronic pressure that often come back to -- with

the various complaints, that there are relapse, they had attacks of MS (ph) and -- So Ithink the workload is very -- very severe

Gordon Mazibrada: Okay. And so do you have people -- was that of work of flexibleworking options are available in your department?

Gratien David: I know that are very plenty of options -- I mean there are presumably ifyou go part-time but then not much work will presumably affect your salary. At the end

of the day you have the sudden population inflations (ph) you have to look after. So I

dont see how

Gordon Mazibrada: Okay. So everybody in your department work Monday to Friday,

nine to five?

Gordon Mazibrada: I mean, there are -- all the consultants fulltime so

Gratien David: Okay. How about the nurses, essentials

Gordon Mazibrada: I think there as far as this wellness nurse (ph) which is -- shes

part-time here, part-time in the university. I cant tell you about the registry. Right with

this trust, again, the current log. Everybodys working fulltime in this -- well I think I


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met some individual who are part-time and a few consultants in the region who are part-

time.


Gordon Mazibrada: But nothing this much so

Gratien David: Okay. And so nobody has come to you asking, Can I work part-time?

or Can I

Gordon Mazibrada: Nobody is. Nobody is asking.

Gratien David: Nobody is asking, but can I work flexible hours, start early, finish earlyor start late, finish late, nobody?

Gordon Mazibrada: No, I think the nurses though start a little earlier with than us,

theyre the big role model here and MS specialist nurses.


Gordon Mazibrada: Now, on certain days they stay longer, I think one day a week they

stay longer each one of them, but I think they start at eight and finish at four, sometime.

Gratien David: Okay. So do they normally ask you with --

Gordon Mazibrada: Not me. Not me. Thats the consideration before I came so -- Itsa long term arrangement.



Gratien David: And is that affecting your service?

Gordon Mazibrada: No.

Gratien David: Provision, no?

Gordon Mazibrada: No.

Gratien David: So youre happy with the arrangement?

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah. Im happy with that.

Gratien David: Okay. Because I understand there is about more than 1500 different

shift patterns in the trust.


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Gordon Mazibrada: Im not sure. Probably -- and obviously nurses on the rote. They

work (Inaudible) (00:05:49) rarer shifts I cannot comment on that, really.

Gratien David: Okay. And to what extent do you think people having flexibility in your

department will help you to run the department successfully?

Gordon Mazibrada: I dont think it will help I think you need more people so you can

then -- if I had help one or two colleagues, Ill perhaps consider working flexibly or less.

But then you know, that problem affects my salary so -- But in terms of the work hour,theyve been -- it has to do with working on so Yeah, so make it rule[ph]. If wed

work in real life you know, Im not sure how will that work.

Gratien David: Okay. Because if you still work flexibly, without reducing your hours itwont affect your salary, like probably starting early and finishing early still keeping the

same hours.

Gordon Mazibrada: I dont think, you know, if she, you know, in terms of consultants,let me just increase work. You know, Im working fast work you know, so I dont think

Id be better if I come at 8 oclock instead of nine.


Gordon Mazibrada: And then finish at four. I would now finish at four; I think Illcarry on doing it until Im finished. And see whatever comes its no longer day or night.

For example, I might as well send like 40 plus emails at least, which means that theyll

probably read around 40 emails those safe to emails (ph) not just emails per se so

Gratien David: So mostly the consultants like you, you dont have a good work-life

balance. Its always work, work, work life.

Gordon Mazibrada: That makes me who I am.

Gratien David: Okay. And so, how do you think -- so -- do you think it would be good

for you to have some sort of flexibility because you know at the end of the day, youre a

human being?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, Im sure, you know. I think Ive been more than that -- Im

mostly bothered but I think it will happen. I mean, now that theyll even ask you to --

When we go on holidays, then our clinics are cancelled. Yeah, so it was a round for twoor three weeks, then when they cancel the clinics, -- Now what I do now, theyre asking

me to see those patients as an extra. You see, so that is not paid extra to me and the

comment is that my patients the chronic patients that I have sorted out. So you go aheadand leave, you see for a few weeks, essentially dredging the small work, in the sense that

I have to catch up with the work Ive left you know, or havent done over that period of

time.


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Gratien David: Have you been able to talk about these to your superiors?

Gordon Mazibrada: Oh yeah -- we did speak on several occasions but its just that --you know. They response and answer them but

Gratien David: No, no solutions were worked out.

Gordon Mazibrada: No, no solutions. In anyway, you can understand that, you know

so tell me hes coming to see you and then he misses that appointment just because youwill leave where youre going to a conference. Yet have to see that patient somewhere,

you know, at some point you know, so in a way, it is your responsibility but hey youre

not advised to plan to give them, you know and no extra pay is derived for that. You

know.

Gratien David: So do you think this affects your productivity or your commitment and

because

Gordon Mazibrada: No, I dont think it affected my productivity that says that I have to

work harder, you see. But Im sure over the years that their attitudes are for everybodywill change to the sense that youve started very enthusiastic and very keen and then you

expect to see the consultants make it, you know, speak to them. You know, that kind of

goes down because its, its just constant and a constant work and the high pressure and

the -- you know, long hours of session.

Gratien David: So

Gordon Mazibrada: I dont think -- I mean we are able to pay for that. Thank you. If

you think (inaudible 00:10:05-00:10:10:05) you know. But you know, if you compare it

to some GPs, some in GPs then that would then cost our consultants work. We have tobelieve and work they work less than us definitely too -- and.

Gratien David: And so do you think that in the long run, therell be lot of burned-out --of consultants?

Gordon Mazibrada: Yes, absolutely. And I think thats why you see consultants

retiring early. Its the only solution for them would be that you know, that simply burnedout especially in the -- the older generations where they would go doing very frequent

phone calls and perhaps you know. Several times a week and overall only a few months

free. It took a long time to become a consultant from a registrant to senior registrant leveletc. So its not surprising in that theyre retiring that early and sort of like 50s around or

60s, you know.

Gratien David: All right.


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taxing children around and doing this and that so I cant be involved rather than the

weekends when Im not working.

Gratien David: Okay. So how would you feel -- because you yourself working so hard

--

Gordon Mazibrada: Yes.

Gratien David: Youre sacrificing other priorities in life because of your work?


Gratien David: How would you feel if somebody -- some- of your junior doctors cometo you and ask you to work flexibly or

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, I wouldnt mind to see them off but the problem is theyre

saying now, I think as long as that does not mean that I have to do that work, which isoften the case, you see. You know, if you have a gap you know, then I think it has --

somebody has to fill the gap and if you are around, youll be asked to do that so I meanprinciple is fine but in real life its different.

Gratien David: Do you think by extending the working hours that because of

flexibilities, some people starting early, finishing early and some people starting late and-- so you got an extended opening hours would that probably well take some of your .

Gordon Mazibrada: I dont think so.

Gratien David: You dont think so? Okay. And so flexibility is a challenge for your

team, for your department because of the --

Gordon Mazibrada: I dont think youre -- if -- I dont observe it that you can do, you

know, with the current numbers of people; -- you can -- you can shift things around andthen make sense. I mean ultimately it wont make any big difference.


Gordon Mazibrada: You see, this all about the numbers. You know, we could do, for

example, with two extra MS neurologists from tomorrow, you see. That will help me a

lot, and have probably have a normal Monday to Friday. No, I think Im working extraand that you can satisfy you know the service.

Gratien David: So is there a budget for extra neurologist or .?

Gordon Mazibrada: There isnt and we are just -- that wanted it to general, two

neurologists, one for epilepsy, and one for acute so


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Gratien David: And have you had employees coming back from maternity leave or

paternity leave or long-term sickness in your department?

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah, from time to time. Yeah.

Gratien David: Okay. What sort of support do you give them to settle back in?

Gordon Mazibrada: I dont give them any support. Just let them get on with it, you

know. so

Gratien David: Okay. So because youre so busy, its difficult for you to help them as a

line manager to help them settle back into their role.


Gratien David: It is challenging because you have no time so

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah, so valiant.

Gratien David: Okay. And so you think if you have flexible working or you need in

your department part-time working its going to be a challenge to achieve your goals in

the department?

Gordon Mazibrada: That would be impossible to complete the work. I cant work for

eight days you know. They will show a way flexibly or part-time and you know,

complete the workload. I just count.

Gratien David: But even having people in your team working flexibly will that mean --

that youll put pressure on you, you think? Okay. And -- Im just trying to change thequestion because of youre

Gordon Mazibrada: No, its not that

Gratien David: Because of your -- because your generation is very different.

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah. Its different. It is.

Gratien David: It is very different. Yes. So I think its very interesting because for

some people --

Gordon Mazibrada: it would be different if you speak with clinicians to be older

Gratien David: Yes. And its starkly different because youre --

Gordon Mazibrada: Thats interesting about the driving and I have to drive to work it

takes I think, 40 minutes, I mean I live south Buckingham and third get here in 30 or 40


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minutes each day. When I work in South County thats one hour thats two hours in

driving, you see, theyll respect me from that.

Gratien David: Yeah thats true. So it is -- it is affecting. And also you have limited

resources.

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah, so I think its -- you told the same. I think it just comes out

the same and you have to plan from them.


Gordon Mazibrada: I mean, its up -- I think you give lots of you know, hours for free.

If I have to charge, everything I do, I think, everybody does that you know and I think Iwould just go out straight away.

Gratien David: Thats true

Gordon Mazibrada: You know, because there wont be enough to pay.

Gratien David: Yeah. And what sort of an impact do you think the working time

directive as had on the smooth running of the department?

Gordon Mazibrada: I think -- Yeah, to a degree, theres no continuity of care so oftenyou can see doctors disappearing. While on the other hand thats not a big issue, I think

-- You know over all you know, its continuity of care.

Gratien David: How long did you, the doctors come to work with you during the

training?

Gordon Mazibrada: Four months. In every four months, they change and they just try

staying here either one or two years depending on their rotation.

Gratien David: Okay. And sometimes junior doctors say that because you know, the

consultants are not very supportive. If you want to request flexible working or any

changes, sometimes if they have to finish at five, consultants expect them to finish at five.

If they go home probably five minutes earlier, they always check on them nor supportthem.

Gordon Mazibrada: I mean, I dont know. Thats just -- cant comment on that,obviously not. So Ive never had a problem with my juniors in retrospect. But thats just

the -- you know personal opinion or personal experience, for that you need to do proper

research proper audit you know so individual comments are entered into statistics to say100% support flexible hours. Bottom line is what are you replacing the flexible hours

with you know who is that, who will be the next person to follow that and do the job --

you see -- You know. This is the different type of service, you know. We have to be in,

somebody has to be around all the time. You know, from the nursing point of view,


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clinicians point of view. You cant just be very flexible but you have to be reason the

rigid I dont think that you know, shifting hours little bit here and there, will you know,

make a big difference.

Gratien David: Because they feel that consultants, most of them they report to have

worked long hours like you did and thatd be a hundred more hours if you were a juniordoctor, eighty hours

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah. Thats why thats true. You know, I think I moved backand set it for generational consultants who preceded me who were constantly on call, you

know. I mean, if you look at the numbers, numbers have increased, you see, in the last

seven years, dramatically in terms of that consultant, you know, numbers so -- and

physician numbers etc. So that theres not -- no doubt about it but then the workload ishigher you see demand is high, you know. The number of task we do is high so .

Gratien David: And they say that because they -- because you can solve it well for so

long hours. They expect the juniors to be when they do have to work on, they have toforty-eight hours, you know. They dont sympathize with them because they think what

the others are doing is nothing.

Gordon Mazibrada: I cant comment on that so

Gratien David: Yeah, thats it.

Gordon Mazibrada: And thats just an opinion.

Gratien David: Okay. So do you think the new working time derivative which came

into force which where this people have been doing 48 hours a week. Has that had an

impact on the staff of every level of the team?

Gordon Mazibrada: Personally, I mean -- I cant comment on that, really. Because you

know that -- you know about answer of 12 directly affected by that, it might, you see. Ithink we occasionally where we think SHLs on the rote etc but yeah, thats up, on the

top of my head. I cant give you my corrected answers to that question the answer is yes

but to what extent I dont know. I cant --

Gratien David: You see, youve been having these staff shortages?

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah. We go and always like that so in an essential choice itsnot you know, the essential to be seen because of what they believe you know what part

of thats the same with the registrars. Thats been a common problem, always, always,

always, even before the working directive you see theres always somebody on studyleave or sick leave or doing clinic instead of covering ward somewhere else you know,

its always been like that, its never been perfect.


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Gratien David: Okay. And do you think because of that staff had been forced to work

overtime like in your case, youre working overtime?

Gordon Mazibrada: I believe everybody works overtime, everybody.

Gratien David: So its a lot of pressure on people. And have you also been required towork on sociable (ph) hours?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, we do long calls. You know, thats all. I dont know whatyou mean by that but I often stay longer that I should be staying.

Gratien David: How work -- was that a mean to say having the training means?

Gordon Mazibrada: I think you better need to speak to the trainees, you know, I wont

be able to answer that question I wasnt affected at the time so. It didnt affect me

so

Gratien David: Okay. But as a consultant supervising or managing --

Gordon Mazibrada: Well, thats a meeting a neurologist not such a big problem. I think

its someone special to like it, with surgical specialties I think it might be a problem

because theres a lot of handlers we dont have time forThey go home. Yeah.

Gratien David: Okay. And so do you think because these duty doctors or people who

have been working longer hours, now theyre working lesser hours. Do you think of

having a good work-life balance now? Because --

Gordon Mazibrada: I think it is -- difficult to say.



Gratien David: And looking at the current economic climate, what sort of an impact do

you think that may have on the future of work-life balance? All the cuts, trustees, you

know, all the austerity measures, the trustees bringing in to place. Do you think,


Gratien David: Do you think theres going to be a lot of -- do you think its going to put

people off from making yourself flexible working or working part-time?

Gordon Mazibrada: I think it will be. I think it will make something, pull them off

very much but I mean, thats tremendous to see what will happen in the trust and which

way for them to go.


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Gratien David: Because senior managers say the other consultants can work part-time,

that you could. But in case, in your case, it will affect your income because you have

commitments.

Gordon Mazibrada: I have commitments, yeah. I have to look for the kids, grow, etc.

so

Gratien David: So do you think some consultant will put your hours down. Because

they say you cannot increase your hours when you want. When you face a vacancy youcan increase your hours. So because of these force strict measures, do you think it is

going to put people off from making use of these serve (ph)?

Gordon Mazibrada: I do not know, I think if somebody you know the problem is hereis that in these trust. They find all done these from the very beginning. I am paid ten

pas (ph), some consultants they negotiated in better some old some senior consultants

theyre paid 12th probably on 13th see, we do the same work or perhaps some a little bit

less some a little bit more. With the new generation of consultants, we all get 10 pas. IfI carefully count what how much I do, they will enact contrary to the trust and say okay

well Im working 12 pas would you like to pay me. Nobody would do that you see.

So the other thing that you can do is you know cut down if you can some hours of your

self and then plea that time for whatever could work or no work. You see any with the

climb climate and the new contracts; you cannot, -- wont be able to increase yourprogram activities for more than you then. Okay so I will be getting more work of what

you do. You can only negotiate in a sense that they say well I have work more than you

pay me there from the extra time. So thats what the thing possibly can work. At leastput that in the contract and say everyone is there and Im off you know to do more job.

So I dont think they will be working more, will be acceptable you know for the trust and

for the economic, for the clinic climate.


Gordon Mazibrada: You should working while in formal way not you can say Im

doing an extra can do that why I have to be paid for that.

Gratien David: Doesnt happen.

Gordon Mazibrada: Doesnt happen, no.


Gordon Mazibrada: You see that its different with the GPA practices their freshstrictly speaking the non profile of the NHS, The independent enterprises.



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Gordon Mazibrada: So their paid for what they do extra theyre paid for it no more

extra you know.


Gordon Mazibrada: And then they can decide what a few services you know right theirown way and that will crack brand new comers reconnect to straight at the end. If I


Gordon Mazibrada: I mean as you know Im in this post of national newspapers there is

a GB in Bellingham area actually whose paid round 650,000 pounds per year and that is

an NHS salary you see? We found it actually that we have a 10 BS contract thats it andsub-K1. Another will come and negotiate in the contracts you know we handle it very

well, the NHS consultants sort of hospitable consultants. GBS handle it very well,

extremely well you see.

And you speak to any commission or GP doctor you know for 450,000 pounds

sometimes for four working days. So whats saying is that you know the current climatewill not change you know duties may get less and all the future but you know we dont

know whats going to happen to NH all together. So any flexibility, theres no flexibility

in the system in terms of the financial. You see theres no money you know for negotiate

about. So the only thing you can do is that you can fit that you are a classroom maybe.You know in the position to get some extra time in a full self where you probably to a

quarter.

Gratien David: How do you get that extra time during the working week?

Gordon Mazibrada: I belong to a little no time (ph)

Gratien David: You have to close -- cancel some clinics for that?

Gordon Mazibrada: No you cant cancel clinics just like that I think you know depends

on what youre going to do I think You try to be very quick and finish early sitting down

and doing whatever you want to do.

Gratien David: So in case you have to do -- go to a bank or you got to do some personal

work

Gordon Mazibrada: No you cannot always do that you know

Gratien David: Cause if he is tying his shoes this time of the night.

Gordon Mazibrada: This is like the production line you cant just leave the place and

comeback you know so.


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Gratien David: Okay, so you got that sort of flexibility?

Gordon Mazibrada: Part of, yes

Gratien David: Okay, and so you have not a look at the flexible working policy at all?

Gordon Mazibrada: No it means you know I mean no.

Gratien David: Right.

Gordon Mazibrada: Is there such a thing such as flexible working hours?

Gratien David: Yes.

Gordon Mazibrada: In this trust here?

Gratien David: Yes that is right. it talks about starting from part time working toflexible working, working full day week and paid full time hours or doing a nine day

fourth night so this will give work Monday to Friday and next week will work Monday toThursday and Friday off, but your still working your full contracted hours? Is that

something possible for you?

Gordon Mazibrada: Well it is really interesting I think I would consider if I cansqueeze two clinics in one day you know so I would, I mean thats what interesting

actually so we maybe nothing to hold that for you and of. You know the kind of day

(ph). The problem is that you see that the lot towards the day is the same stages thatsqueeze the whole amount in that kind of shorter period of time.

Gratien David: Because you have to work so hard to get ready

Gordon Mazibrada: Because you see if I say do that now to put that off. I say four out

of five days somehow you do an excellent earning and on the day when Im not in therewell be 10 times to 30 emails and thats it you see for example. So I need to catch up you

know on Monday if I dont want to file on that, reach for that you know and other clients

sits in for example.

Gratien David: And theres nobody who can pick your emails up

Gordon Mazibrada: No, those are my emails they are my decisions you know so

Gratien David: Right.

Gordon Mazibrada: Its not the importances; its not the job its about the patients you

see here. You know I have to read all emails from peripheral MS nurses if they go asking

about the patients whos in. So I have to know, look at the emails and look at the last

letter you know I email and I got an email back and then I email again thats all. So its a


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Gordon Mazibrada: I can have email access to all the you know and all the what is that

in whats that language

Gratien David: All the records and

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah all the systems

Gratien David: Systems, yes we could

Gordon Mazibrada: In terms of patients records and the imagery and my mouse and

what considered call --

Gratien David: Because I was speaking to another...

Gordon Mazibrada: No every Wednesday but occasionally, theres nobody in the ward,

if I dont have anything planned like no meetings etc. appointments, then I would actuallyconsider staying at home.

Gratien David: Because I was speaking to another consultant.

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah

Gratien David: Says a bible geek (ph)


Gratien David: And he says he can actually -- he can work at home


Gratien David: Because hes got to stay

Gordon Mazibrada: Is this a lab?

Gratien David: It is a lab

Gordon Mazibrada: It is a lab it is. Yeah.

Gratien David: So you could probably try and negotiate back then and see, because as

long as they know youre doing the job.

Gordon Mazibrada: No I think I understand I think that they know that Im here or not.

I can just leave here without participating -- is the work what you have to complete



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Gordon Mazibrada: Otherwise just trailing behind and the, you know so I fully

understand that if I leave things unfinished, you know they just accumulate. So thats thefinish, if I can have this test though you know at home then I am probably in well lets say

50% of the cases I will not come here on Wednesday. You see?

Gratien David: Yeah, because if you see a work life balance research.


Gratien David: Because of the there is a flexibility


Gratien David: Working from home is a flexibility


Gratien David: So that takes a lot of stress out, the burnout

Gordon Mazibrada: No, absolutely now so I think you know thats why you feel

refreshed out from holidays.

Gratien David: Yes.

Gordon Mazibrada: battling initials of shock of back to work or catching up with theworkload but I personally you know feel really very refreshed right after a holiday and to

some extent that could perhaps happen with a sad working from home. You dont think

more relaxed enough driving for example see though out that would help. You know Ican see the point of that.

Gratien David: Yeah, so and also it will have an okay (ph) effect because if you arepositively influence that filters that would be a be manmade off

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah Absolutely

Gratien David: It increase the very different work environment

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah Absolutely

Gratien David: And theres probably you know serve -- thats what you know and the

management is quite interested that you know I could see they sometimes work and say,there probably many clinicians (ph) are very flexible working

Gordon Mazibrada: No I think, if I certainly I think this is something which I exert its

fully acceptable and fully supported and there are means of to assure that and I think it as


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of now definitely used you know say with no not any other day but Wednesdays. Once

they actually would be cross. There is no point to work at home. In the morning

comeback you know they have no for a clinic. I mean this purely my admin day andoccasionally I have appointments, occasionally see patients, etc. So ah but other wise I

think would consider that you know but not speak in behalf of and then you know half of

the resident that would work here

Gratien David: So you think it would be interesting, it will be good for the trust to

communicate this other benefits to consultants

Gordon Mazibrada: why wouldnt they thinking of a there is a scientific evidence that

this something which we all need to kind of aim to -- you know aim for in term of you

know if we balance and being refreshed and enthusiastic for a number (ph) years and notburned out and I think thats

Gratien David: Because one consultant was telling me


Gratien David: That if you go to another department where the calculations stress and

they say like if that employee, if one employee work less than us.


Gratien David: Will that person you know who have been able to be and a good health

you know


Gratien David: Because they work longer hours it affects their health then you know

this is some step --


Gratien David: Should be probably approved


Gratien David: Yeah

Gordon Mazibrada: Im worrying at it

Gratien David: Yeah



20/23

Gratien David: And then so because in your case like youve been purely educated to

work and you could see anything beyond in relation to well being. What is your

overview on work-life balance?

Gordon Mazibrada: I think this country is very poor you know and I can tell you

example. I think it is the last options if I can afford to work three days a week forexample part time. I would you know one day I could do something at home with my

children I will do nothing right now some sport or whatever hobby. One day I will

probably do a research one time research. You know some of you like that, so I will dothat but you know I cant afford that expensive -- and you know everything is expensive

you know kids they are expensive and so got something that I got a sounds like more --

were not that well paid

I can tell you when you spend all that hospital consultant salary its around 75,000 as

recalled. I mean I got two colleagues, number colleagues was distinguished MS

neurologist, he works in the UK his been around ten old years and 15 years still quite

young probably his mid 40s and working very hard and now everybodys aware of him,his work and his research etc. And for some reason he has to move to Australia, hes

moving in six months now and his salary there he is good working in a much smallerplace a hospital wise and department wise he will build 150,000 pounds a year and thats

nine to five anything extra hell be paid. Im sure hell be able to achieve very nice work

Gratien David: Very nice work.

Gordon Mazibrada: You know home balance is here because youre not being required

to do extra you see.

Gratien David: Yeah

Gordon Mazibrada: And I didnt mention you would prime of work youre just relating

thats the extra work you see. You know thats the kind of work you know my team and

so I think its very difficult to talk about you know work-life balance if you are forced towork. You know to sustain the family, baby, bills you know etc. So the flexibility of so

working part time just goes away because the salary withdraw and yes with that flexible

work you will consider if not if it is you know supporting the children you know possible

so I might be discussing them working from home

Gratien David: and do you think -- you are from Italy no?

Gordon Mazibrada: Sorry?

Gratien David: Where are you from Italy or your -- ?

Gordon Mazibrada: Croatia.

Gratien David: Okay so do you think there you get a better work-life balance?


21/23

Gordon Mazibrada: I havent worked there for a while, so I cant I dont know

Gratien David: Okay

Gordon Mazibrada: I think its kind of difficult to comment

Gratien David: Okay

Gordon Mazibrada: You know about other countries

Gratien David: Okay and do you think that if they have their own resources, probably

have extended working hours


Gratien David: To give a lot of flexibility

Gordon Mazibrada: Yeah, to give us the flexibility I think its -- I mean their issues -- Imean I for example would like to do a little more research that would be beneficial for

me plus knowing I think for the trust for operations as a core I cant do it simply because

there no time for that and this no flexibility on my contract you know to do that, To do

more time for research, you see.

Gratien David: And believe the consultants, the group of consultants you we were

going you know. Do you think the environment doesnt support you to talk aboutflexible working, you know can I come late? Or everybody is just talking about

Gordon Mazibrada: I think we will be all very supportive of each I think we allunderstand that were swamped on calls, were swamped in clinics you know we help each

other in terms the patients, the individual patients thats not an issue. Because you know

sometimes you give sometimes get through. Do something extra so its all fine now

Gratien David: Okay, and because there are issue with junior doctors and I am almost

finishing


Gratien David: Issues that junior doctors


Gratien David: Because they are not really motivated. They are not

Gordon Mazibrada: I think I would be very careful using that those words. You see I

think its a Im not sure what they are you know it need to do almost like a research or


22/23

did you not say that you know is this one the part from in there? You know and the

whole hospital, region you know nationwide etc. I dont know what the research or data

in this. So I dont think its so much about the junior doctors and the senior doctors.There are issues and I think a many of the senior clinicians were complaining of you

know being force to do you know basic house office type of work. Simply was theres

nobody around. I dont think that it affects neurology (ph) so I dont know what tocomment on that.

Gratien David: But overall they feel the trust levels are very low?


Gratien David: Like they feel theyre not trusted.


Gratien David: And so thats affect the morale they say.

Gordon Mazibrada: Thats fair enough you know so.

Gratien David: And the second thing they feel is -- appreciation is not there


Gratien David: even if you put lot welfare, then they wont do it theres no appreciation,

no recognition.

Gordon Mazibrada: I mean thats a shame thats the general feeling obviously.

Gratien David: Yeah, because thats what they say so


Gratien David: So as we say it probably it differs from department to department.

Gordon Mazibrada: Im sure.

Gratien David: It is

Gordon Mazibrada: It is different you know I think as far as I can tell you know have

any problems with them before in chores and registrars (ph)

Gratien David: Okay


23/23

Gordon Mazibrada: It tells a fasted being flexible and supportive you see, Maybe

individual case its occasional from time to time that will be a problem of us all but then

not this rule.

Gratien David: Okay, thank you very Gordon for your time.

[END]

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Gordon Mazibrada - VN680069 PELITAN, RONALYN 0to25 Domondon