1:01:57

FREDERICK W (BILL) DUFFY

Cedric Beidatsch

24/02/1993

E0010

1:01:57

Cecilie van Dyk

11/09/2013

City of Joondalup

Mr Frederick William Duffy was born in Wanneroo in 1907 and has lived there all his life. He

still resides in the cottage his grandfather built in 1917 on the block of land on which both his

grandfather and his parents conducted a market garden. Mr Duffy is Wanneroo’s oldest

surviving resident and his memories of childhood before and after the Great War are great

value in reconstructing a way of life in a past era. This recording of one hour’s length both

sides of one tape was conducted on the 16th of March 1993 in Mr Duffy’s house by Cedric

Beidatsch the Oral History Officer. It deals with Mr Duffy’s life and with everyday life in

Wanneroo up until 1930.

CD: Mr Duffy, I wonder if we could start by you giving me your full name and your date of

birth please.

FD: Frederick William Duffy, 12th of December 1907.

CD: Were you born in Wanneroo?

FD: Yeah, I was born up at --- 9:49:16 ---. They use to be a three, four room house up

there. You know that stone one a little bit at the back. The big house use to be in the front.

It was made with clay and they use to put, they use to call them wattle sticks in between and

put the clay around it and that ceiling was matchboard because the white ants got into it and

they use to come when no one lived in it and it just collapsed itself.

CD: Was that your parent’s house?

FD: Yeah, no it didn’t belong to us it belonged to John Shenton and then the Perry’s bought

it out there and then they wanted the place and my dad built the house over down the side

and they wanted to come out to live and of course we had to get out of it before we were

finished. And when they come out they only stopped a fortnight and they haven’t been back

to pay us.

CD: So did you grow up the whole time in Wanneroo as a child?

FD: Yeah, I’ve always lived in Wanneroo. Perhaps when I turned twenty one or about

nineteen or twenty I left it for about twelve months and that was all but then I came back

again.

CD: What did your parent’s do?

FD: Well my dad was a market gardener and mum she was just a housewife looking after

the kids.

CD: How many kids were there?

FD: Seven boys and one girl.

CD: And which number were you?

FD: I was the first. Yeah.

CD: Ok. When your parents build the house behind the swamp over here and started

market gardening, and how big was that house that they build?

FD: Four rooms and a front lounge. They never had time to put a back one, they never had

time to get it plastered or sealed inside. It was never even finished.

CD: What was it build out of?

FD: Limestone from the quarry up there in --- 9:51:22 --- over at the other side from where

they are, where the school is.

CD: And your dad build the house himself in between gardening?

FD: No, no he had another bloke to build it. A bloke named George Dorsan. The one that

build, I don’t know whether you know Pearces’ old place over here? Well he build that for a

Ms Whitehead and when he finished that he build the house over here for my dad. He made

all them in lime and sand bats, that’s not stone that’s you know, he made them --- 9:52:05 ---

CD: What was the family life like in those days when you were a child? How did you get

along with mum and dad?

FD: It was all right. If you went anywhere you had to tell them where you were going and

what time you are coming home.

CD: Were they very strict parents?

FD: No they weren’t strict but you had to do as you was told.

CD: So did you have jobs around the house and the garden very early on to do?

FD: No, well I use to go down the garden with him before I started school and when I use to

come home from school and school holidays. I was always down there with him. Because

he had men working for him to.

CD: How many men?

FD: Sometimes two. One of them named ---9:52:53 --- and he went away and did the First

World War and he never ever came back, him and one other boy named Bill.

CD: And did the other kids they came along also help out along the garden?

FD: The second one did but the other one was too young because he died when I was

seventeen. I turned seventeen after he died in 1923, no 24.

CD: Talking a bit about your childhood at home, what did your family do for recreation? Did

you ever go on outings to the beach or anything like that?

FD: Yeah, we use to go when we went to school in the holidays at Christmas time, we went

to Mullaloo beach or Burns Beach with a horse and cart and put tents up and at a week

sometimes a fortnight out there. But my dad never goes up there much. When we went to

Mullaloo he probably come out a couple of nights a week something like that with a horse.

Burns was too far, dragging up that big hill with a horse or even when we use to go we use

to, I think we use to have two horses. One on the side and one in the front because one

horse wouldn’t pull it over that hill. Not those sand and no roads.

CD: You’d changed horses half way through would you?

FD: Yeah, yeah.

CD: How long did it take you to get down to the coast on the horse?

FD: About an hour and a half I reckon from the time we left home.

CD: And the track was just a sand track?

FD: Yes, just a sand track.

CD: When you camped, you’d camp out on the beach and go fishing and so on?

FD: Yeah, yeah in a tent. Sometimes mum’s dad use to come out with us, that’s

grandfather Coplan, he use to come out there and be with us to. We use to go fishing with

him and down on the rocks and then he’d go up to what they use to call Burns Point and fish

to tailor. He’d sometimes be catching, sometimes he wouldn’t.

CD: Ok. In the family, how did you celebrate birthdays or those special days? Did you

celebrate? You were saying about family celebrations, birthdays for example. What did

your family do when you were a kid?

FD: Birthdays you never thought of. Only when your turn your birthday come. I mean I

don’t remember getting anything even for me twenty first birthday because I wasn’t out in

Wanneroo I was in town. But we use to go to dances and had a football team out here and

races, sports sometimes. The most races was up at Perry’s, that was once a year.

CD: Alright tell me a bit more about the races.

FD: They use to be pretty good. They had the races for children and grownups and I never

ever done good when I was young but when I got older I won three or four adults racing and

everything, a 120 yards. The first one I went in mum said to me, “aren’t you going in” and I

said no because me and another bloke was older than nineteen. I don’t think I might have

been, no I wasn’t, because I just turned seventeen. I won and the bookie came up to me

and he said what’s your name? And I said Duffy, Bill Duffy. And he said I will give you ten to

one and I said no. So after a while he walked back and said still ten to one and I said yes.

So I won the race and I got £4,10 for the race and a £1 off the bookie so I was a millionaire.

CD: Good money. The bookie wasn’t a local chap then? He didn’t know you?

FD: No

CD: Came from Perth especially for the day then?

FD: He’d been from the city. He was a real bookie, you know they came to book on the

race horse, but they use to book on the foot races to.

CD: How people would come to the race meetings. Was it a very big gathering?

FD: We use to get a 100 there I suppose in those time, might have been more. And when

the races were over they’d all go to the pub and get drunk.

CD: Was the pub a special sort of thing for the day or was there normally a pub in the area

in Wanneroo?

FD: No, no there was no pub out here. They use to have a bush pub up there.

CD: Just for the day?

FD: Yeah, just for the day.

CD: How did they keep the bear cold?

FD: Wet bags, wrapped them around and pour cold water over them now and again to keep

them cold. They didn’t know whether it was hot or cold after a time anyhow. I don’t

remember if it was cold or what it was.

CD: And there must have been a brawl afterwards?

FD: Yes, they use to have a dance afterwards up in the old tin hall that use to be up there.

Do you remember that? No you don’t. It should never have been pulled down you know. It

should have been put into a museum I reckon because it was a really good old hall. A

homely hall.

CD: You said beforehand there would always be a bit of a box up afterwards? A bit of a

fight?

FD: Yeah

CD: Were there people who always got involved in fights? Were it always the same

people?

FD: There was one bloke who got into a bit of a box up and the next morning he said “I’ve

lost me false teeth”. I said “how did you do that”? He said “I got into a bit of a box up, up

there last night” or yesterday afternoon or something. I said “why don’t you go back and see

if you can’t find it”. He said “do you reckon I look”? So he went back and he was away for a

couple of hours and he came home and he said I found them in the sand up there.

CD: Those kind of fights, were they the way you settled dispute over the whole the year or

was it just drunken fights?

FD: Drunken fights. Yeah. Good friends the next day. That’s what they use to be out here

one day – fight today and be good friends tomorrow.

CD: Was it fairly normal in those days? People having physical fights?

FD: It used to be. I know a couple of blokes who use to go into North Perth if it was too

quite. They use to just tuck into themselves, two brothers. When anyone tried to stop them

they’d just tuck into them and the police would be there then. Just to, you know, stir up a bit

of fun. Mostly it was Saturday night, it was.

CD: When people have an argument, say about something on say two neighbours or

whatever else, were those kind of things also resolved by you know having a punch up?

FD: No, no, they never use to do that. Only thing was there was an Italian bloke over one

time. Me and my stepfather was gardening and we heard a noise outside and this bloke

went down to his place to get his fowl and one chicken he reckon was his and he had the

other bloke chasing back with an axe. When the other bloke said to him about it was his

chicken, the bloke took the fowl and the chicken back and he said “what’s the matter”?

There were not many fights out here, it was mostly if we had them up at the race course it

might be a bloke who didn’t know one another and he said what are you looking at, and then

they did get stuck into it or something like that or reckon he said something to him he

shouldn’t say and there they’d be.

CD: Ok

FD: The only grudge fight out here was with George Coffman and son Perry up at the

Wanneroo Hall but I’ve never seen that. Because I don’t know whether I’ve ever told you or

not, but Margaret Coffman’s father and his father and his brother in law and the bloke that

worked for Margaret’s father and me was walking across from the race course up to the

Coffman’s old house and her father chucked himself down on the ground and started kicking

and bucking around and the bloke that was working for him went to pick him up and he

knocked him over and then Grandfather Coffman said you can’t touch him Bill, leave him,

he’ll be alright in a minute. So anyhow, he got up and looked across and he said to me

“come here Bill”. And I said “what do you want?” He said “go and get sidekick and tell him

to bring me my motor car down and bring me home”. I said “alright” and away I went and

knocked on the door and Tommy came out and he said “what’s up?” I said “the general

wants you to come down and pick him up. He said “where is he?” I said “down on the

lawn”. He laughed. He said “alright” and away we went and brought him home and that was

the night the big fight was up at the Wanneroo Hall. And I missed it all because I was with

them. I left at about eleven ‘o clock and then it was all over. I had to walk from right down

by the swamp, right up through the bush, pitch black and then walk up to the Wanneroo

race.

CD: Why was he called “The General”?

FD: I don’t know why he was called The General. One of his other brother’s was called “the

10:04:34”.

CD: Was he fast? Was he a fast runner?

FD: No, but he used to play football. But he was a pretty big man. There used to be

another bloke out here they use to call him “The Cornel”.

CD: What kind of things did your dad grow in the garden market?

FD: What he used to grow? Tomatoes, cauliflower, peas, cucumbers, turnips, you know

just about nearly everything. Tomatoes in the summer time and caulies and cabbage and

turnips in the winter time.

CD: All grown on swamp land?

FD: Yeah. Onions they use to grow up on the sand in the winter time. We use to grow the

watermelons, we use to grow a few of them over there as well.

CD: And it was all taken to Perth to the market?

FD: Yeah

CD: How often?

FD: Sometimes twice a week, sometimes only once a week. I don’t think they ever went

three times not that I know of.

CD: And that was on the horse you’d take them down?

FD: Horse and cart. Yeah.

CD: How long did that take to get to Perth on a horse and cart?

FD: Well, when I left school I use to take my dad and Steve’s in. My dad had two horses

and a small cart. Steve had a big cart. We put one on the sides and one in the front. We

use to leave out there about one ‘o clock and I’d get into corner of James Street and Lake

Street at about half past five. Then I’d take the leader off and put him in the yard we use to

call Wilson’s yard. Put the nose bag on him and then go around to James Street into the

market or producer’s market and unload them and come back. We use to take the weight off

the horses’ back while they were feeding and then we would go have breakfast ourselves

and then come back. Once a week I use to be able to 10:07:12 in Murray Street. We use to

come to North Perth to pick up what we had to get. Bread and meat. We had a big box

underneath the cart like a square. We put the meat inside a brown bag, you know the brown

bag was pretty thick in those times. Wet them and stick the meat in and roll them up and put

them underneath the box. It used to keep alright.

CD: So you bought bread and meat from town. You didn’t make your own bread up here?

FD: No, no, no. We didn’t use to make. Sometimes mum would make their own butter but

not very often. And tea and sugar and everything I had to pick up at North Perth.

CD: It was in Charles Street wasn’t it?

FD: Yeah, but it was only a little shop and they build it bigger when they bought them out.

CD: How did you fit eight kids into a four room house?

FD: I don’t know? The smaller ones, that I can remember, use to sleep in the double bed

and the bigger ones use to sleep in the single bed. Well it wasn’t single beds it is what they

called three quarter beds. A little bit wider than a single bed.

CD: There is not a lot of room though? It was obviously pretty crowded in?

FD: O, what could you do? They use to put up the window and we use to get plenty of fresh

air. Of course you didn’t have to worry about anyone coming around in the night time, jump

up through the window and doing you over.

CD: Where did you wash?

FD: Out in the shed out at the back. The water shed.

CD: There was water from the well?

FD: Yeah. We had to pump up water. But we never had a Douglas pump, but they were

homemade. They wouldn’t drink water in those days that was in the well that had the frogs

in it. They use to purify. If a well had water in it and there were no frogs in it, they reckon

the frogs use to purify it. I don’t know if they did or not?

CD: When you went to school, you had your first year at James Street, didn’t you?

FD: Yeah, that’s right.

CD: Did you stay in Perth?

FD: I use to stay with me auntie in Aberdeen Street because it wasn’t far from James

Street. I think the old school is still there, isn’t it?

CD: I’m not sure?

FD: I haven’t been there for years. I couldn’t tell you.

CD: So that was your first year at school. So why did you go down there? What was the

reason not to Wanneroo?

FD: Well, I suppose because I was all on me own over there and I came over here on me

own. Not that it would have made much difference I would have been alright just the same.

Probably my dad wanted me to go in there to stay with his sister.

CD: It was your dad’s sister?

FD: Yeah. And of the boys, a fortnight older than me, and I went with him. We blokes went

there together from Aberdeen Street.

CD: And then you’d come the next year to Wanneroo School.

FD: Yeah, when the other brother became of age after twelve months, well I’m eleven

months older than him, and when he turned I come back at Christmas time in the holidays

and then we started up here the next year. Two days one week, three days the next. We

had to walk to.

CD: You walked up to school? How far was that from here?

FD: Well we always reckoned it was three and a half miles.

CD: A long walk isn’t it?

FD: Yeah. And you had to walk home to. Until I got a brain wave and after twelve months I

got a pony. Mum and dad gave me a pony and I started to ride to school. The teacher said

to me one day “are you going to ride your pony to school every day”. I said yeah. He said

“don’t go yet”. So he went out and came back with a form and he said “give this to your

father” and I said “alright” because I didn’t bother to read it. So I gave it to him and he read it

and he said “it looks as if the Education Department is going to pay you to ride your pony to

school”. So he filled it in and I picked it up and gave it to the teacher about a month after.

All the other kids then started to get ponies and a next door neighbour got a horse. He use

to take about four or five kids to school and he got good money for it. Everybody got a pony

and a horse and they got too much money and the Education Department was paying out

too much money so they called contracts in. A bloke had a four wheeler it was, two horses

with a shaft up the centre and two horses each side. He came along with it first day after our

holidays and we thought this was good. But is wasn’t so good when we had to go up

Tommy’s hill. The horses couldn’t pull it out, we had to get out and push it and push behind

it. Then we got into it and got on top, went to the next hill and then had to push it over that

one to. The next day he had to come with a horse and cart. Of course that didn’t last long

and then council contracted it and gave it to another bloke and of course he had two good

horses and didn’t have any trouble. And he had it for years then he bought a tractor and had

a body build on it with sides in it and doors at the back and steps so you could get up into it.

You wouldn’t get wet, well you didn’t get wet in the other one either because it was all

covered in. And that’s where the busses all started from. From me riding a pony to school.

CD: What kind of lessons did you get at school? What did they teach you in those days?

FD: Oh, everything. Just the same as James Street. We got taught the same. When I left

James Street I was in first standard and I started off up here in second and we had done all

the same work, transcription and arithmetic and reading books and everything.

CD: Were they very quick to use the cane?

FD: Yeah

CD: Do you remember the teacher’s you had and who they were?

FD: Only the ones about twelve month and the three days one week and two the next and

then they put one over in East Wanneroo and of course it was full time. We asked the

teacher if we could go for a swim down in the lake and he said “no you can’t”. So we used to

go down where the church is, it was all bush then, across Church Street and get back in time

to be ready for one ‘o clock for school. Then when the other teacher come out we asked him

could we go down? And he said “where about is it”? And we said “straight down Shore

Road, but we didn’t tell him we use to sneak off and go down the other one. He said “did the

other teacher use to let you go? And we said “yeah” so he said “alright”. Be back at one ‘o

clock though he said. If you’re missed that will be the finish. All stripped off we’d go down in

the nude and get up on the post and dive into the water. Never thought about snakes.

CD: Just the boys?

FD: Yeah, boys, yeah. No we wouldn’t have no girls with us.

CD: You were at school throughout the Great War then weren’t you?

FD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CD: Did many men go from Wanneroo away to the army in the 1940’s?

FD: Well there was quite a few. Yeah. There was Dick Smile, Bill Coffman, Charlie Night

and two Bennett boys and Gus Brady and there was a couple more but I couldn’t think of

their names.

CD: Did it make a difference to the district as the men go away. Did it seem different with

all the men being away?

FD: I think it did in a way. There was four Coffman boys that went. Bill, Jack, Dep and

Ross. That’s four of them went.

CD: And they were your neighbours weren’t they?

FD: No. None of them never came back.

CD: Yeah. Was there any fundraising done during those years, during the Great War years,

for the men that was overseas?

FD: No, I don’t think so. They use to give them send off when they went and a welcome

home for those who came home but there was no raising funds or anything like that.

CD: So it didn’t have much effect on life in the area?

FD: No, no I don’t think so. It didn’t. Not as I can remember.

CD: What kind of games did you play as kids? What kind of things did you get up to?

FD: We use to play what they use to call rounders. I don’t know what they call it these

days.

CD: Baseball

FD: When you had the stick. We use to play that. But never any football.

CD: How come?

FD: There wasn’t enough out here to have a team. The kids might have kicked a football

from one to another but no team or anything like that.

CD: Did you do much shooting?

FD: Much shooting?

CD: Shooting in the bush? Kangaroos or birds or anything?

FD: Well, we use to go duck shooting and probably wouldn’t get no duck but we use to get

some blue cranes.

CD: Couldn’t eat them though?

FD? Yeah, you could. We use to live on them out here. The ducks are too wild. If you had

a boat like what they called a duck boat, and one could go in and just lay down and just

paddle the water with his hands outside or some of them had a little paddle like that with a

hand line and they use to lie down in the boat and paddle along and the duck didn’t take no

notice of them, well then they had bad luck, because they might get shot and they would get

three or four. But I never had no boat. We use to go and shoot a crane or do something like

that. We use to bring them home. They use to make good stews, but I don’t think that I’ll

eat them today. There was plenty of them we use to eat them.

CD: A lot of bush tucker?

FD: Yeah, that’s what it was. Didn’t do any harm anyhow. The only thing we didn’t eat was

shags. Swamp hen was alright but it was a bit, what they use to call, a little sea in him.

That’s the only thing. He was like a fish. You had to pull the flesh out and then eat it. Then

pull the flesh away from it and then eat it. Kangaroos, we use to get a few of them now and

again. They use to be plenty out there those times. As long as you had a good enough shot

to shoot them. A bloke said to me one time that came over to our place over there, and he

says “what about we go rabbit hunting”. I said “where”, and he said “out Mullaloo”. So I said

“alright” and I said to my dad I’m going with George out to shoot some rabbits. He said

“alright, be back at a certain time” and I said “alright”. So we go out there and couldn’t see

no rabbits. We’d come across a camp where there was a couple of jam tins. He said “I bet

I’ll put more holes in my tin than you would”. I said “alright” because I was ready to have a

go it didn’t matter what it was. Stack them up a bit, 10 yards apart. He said to me “go on” I

said “no, you made the challenge, you shoot first”. He shot and he never even hit it. I fired

at mine and put a hole in his.

CD: That must have been quite a fun thing.

FD: Yeah. He use to shut one eye. He looked at me like and he said “did you aim at my

tin?” I said “no I aimed at me own”.

CD: Ok. You left school at fourteen?

FD: Yeah. I use to drive the cart for Steve. Right up until I was about sixteen.

CD: Why did you go work for Steve? Wasn’t there enough work at home?

FD: Well I use to take Steve and my dad in the one cart. I was going to say something but it

went clean out of me head. Don’t know what it was.

CD: What was Steve like as a person?

FD: He was a real gentleman. Ah, yeah, so was his other two brothers. Up until I was

sixteen one of his brothers came out from Yugoslavia and he done me out of a job. But I

use to drive me own dad’s cart in just the same. Then Steve bought the horse that we use

to put in this cart. He bought it off my dad and of course he never had so much to take in

and I use to take our in our own cart. It was alright, but Steve, he was a gentleman Steve

was.

CD: Much English. He didn’t speak much English?

FD: Ah yes, he was out here before and he went back and when Steve got in the garden

over here he had another bloke with him and the other bloke got into debt and got Steve into

debt and Kurt he was going to take his horse and cart off him. He gave me a letter to give to

Steve and Steve read it and took it to my dad and says “Kurt is going to take my horse and

cart for it”. He said “what for Steve”. He said “I owe him £90”. That was a lot of money you

know, £90. He said “Ah, no Steve, I’ll see that he doesn’t take your horse and cart”. He said

“why don’t you change your markets and go over to Lanski’s”. I went to school with Lanski.

The Christian brothers. He said “I’ll write him a letter” so he gave me the letter to give to

Steve and Lanski read it and said “alright, tell your father I’ll see what I can do for Steve”. So

I put it in there. The next day, the next market Steve said “don’t collect today” and I said

“alright”. So the third time that I went in, he said “here is £10” he said “if there is another £10

at the market give Kurt the £20” and I said “alright”. So I went in to collect the cheque from

Lanski and it was £80. I said “what am I going to do with £80?” So anyhow I went back to

Wilson’s yard, Tommy and I always use to go there although he was a lot older than what I

was. We use to go and we went to the bank to cash it, the National Bank up from James

Street, in William Street. He said “go on you go cash your cheque first”. I went up there and

put it through the till and the bloke said to me “lot of money for you young fellow to be carting

around”. Tommy said to me “it’s alright, he is with me”. And then he cashed it. I brought it

home to give it to Steve and Steve gave me a quid.

CD: That was quite a big day’s taking, £80, wasn’t it?

FD: Yeah. A Pound was worth a lot of money those days.

CD: Yeah. What would you normally make on a day’s marketing? The stuff you sold, what

would it come to?

FD: What you mean, me or Steve?

CD: Steve, yeah, the grower.

FD: O, well that all depends on how much the auctioneer got for it. He couldn’t have been

getting too much because he wouldn’t have got into debt. But of course he didn’t get into

debt, the other bloke got into debt, got him into debt. It didn’t matter, he’d buy anything,

didn’t matter was it was. And then when Steve got rid of him, I don’t’ think he knew he had

that much debt. But after that he never looked back.

CD: So what did you earn when you worked for Steve? What did he pay you?

FD: Seven and six a trip.

CD: That’s once or twice a week?

FD: Yeah once or twice a week, whatever it was. We use to get a breakfast, fried eggs and

bacon or whatever you want. You wouldn’t get it now.

CD: How did people get along with the Yugoslavian emigrants in the community in

Wanneroo? Was there any sort of problems between people at all?

FD: No I don’t think so. There might have been one or two, might have locked heads, might

have arguments today and good friends tomorrow or something like that.

CD: Did you ever feel, you know as a young man after school when you were working, that

there were differences between people within the area and that some were wealthier than

others or better than others or thought they might be better than other people or something?

FD: Oh well there was a few of them out here. But not many.

CD: And how did you respond to people like that?

FD: Well they never use to ignore you. If you spoke to them, you know, they’d use to speak

to you.

CD: Who were they? Which kind of people were they? Who were they?

FD: English people. The Ashby’s, they thought they were somebody and a couple more of

them out here, but taking on a whole they weren’t that bad.

CD: What about a family like the Spears? Jasper Spears, or so, they were obviously quite

wealthy people?

FD: Oh, Jasper. He was a funny old bloke. But she was a lady.

CD: Granny?

FD: Yeah, old granny Spears. She was a real lady. If you went to her place tea was there

before you sat on the chair. Yeah, but he was a funny old bloke, old Jasper.

CD: How? In what way?

FD: Well he use to tell you all sorts of yarns that never even happened. He used to train

Billy Pockman out here, when he used to go and high jump he said he used to jump over his

head and he said no other one could jump as high as he was, so whether he did it or not I

don’t know. Him and old Con Noon were caught in a fight down here one time.

CD: Jasper?

FD: Jasper. They both had big bellies and they use to stand back. I never seen it but old

Bill told me about it. He said “I watched them and I never seen so much in all my life”. He

said they would stand back and run and hit one another with the belly.

CD: How about when the Italians started coming out? When they began to arrive? Were

they again by themselves or mixing with them quite easily too?

FD: The Italians?

CD: Italians, yeah.

FD: No, I think they was alright. They were pretty good. Old Tony I think was the first

Italian bloke to come out there to Wanneroo after the First World War. There might have

been some before and left, I don’t know. But old Tony I think was the first to come out here

because he bought 10:30:52 up from two uncles of mine, Jack Coppman and Rough

Coppman and that’s where he started. And it is still up there, the house he build. Well I

think it is.

CD: I think so, yeah, I think it is.

FD: Then he had a bloke named John Wittle working for him and John was alright. When

we use to come home from school, probably meet him up here somewhere along the road

and he pulled up and he gave us lollies. When we use to come home on horseback or in the

sulkies. Ah, yeah. Then he went back to Italy and another bloke started with old Tony, Jim

Sinagra. Jim was alright too, he was a good bloke. Then Ben Mooney, Conti and Leo Conti,

Charlie Conti, Matt Matinowich. They were all good blokes you know. Yeah. Old Matt

Matinowich he was as a big as that fridge.

CD: Did they buy existing blocks or did they start new gardens from scratch in the bush

when they came out?

FD: By boxes?

CD: Did they buy up existing market gardens or did they start up from scratch?

FD: Oh, yeah, no they didn’t buy them they use to rent them. Manitowish bought his and

Tony bought his, but the rest of them, there used to be some gardens down there and all

gardens down there. You know some blocks might be four acres or five acres. An uncle of

mine had two or three lots there and one over at the other side and another uncle further

down, he use to have a house down from Lancaster Road, down that way. It’s a big shed

down there now. There used to be a big stone house there. He use to have, must have had

about half a dozen gardens around there you know, Italian blokes working, renting it all. I

wouldn’t say that there was any bad Italian blokes out here. Not that they would do you any

harm or anything like that. They’d rather help you.

CD: So everyone really got along very well, the whole community?

FD: Yeah, I used to get along with them, I don’t know about others?

CD: What happened, you know, if somebody had a problem, say something happened, they

had a problem at home and they couldn’t do the work in the garden or someone was very

sick. Did people came and help out? Was that the kind of thing that use to go on?

FD: Well, I think they would have. Yes, but I don’t remember anybody ever getting like that.

I think they would have just the same. I know when my dad died they had concerts and

benefits for my mum to start her of with the dairy over there.

CD: So they raised money from a couple of shows?

FD: Yeah, and the same with Isobel Darch, when her husband died. The money came in all

over the place.

CD: That’s good. So after your dad died, your mum started the dairy at the other side of the

swamp and you took off the garden?

FD: Yeah, yeah I still done the gardening. Because he put a lot in the garden when he

died. He had it full of potatoes and because I looked after them and dug them and bagged

them up and took them to market.

CD: And then carried on thereafter?

FD: Yeah.

CD: Talk a bit about the gardening. What was the work like? All by hand obviously I

suppose?

FD: Well there was no machinery. It was all horse and plough and you had to do all the

holes with your hands and put the manure in. No manure spreaders or anything like that.

You ploughed the ground with a plough and then you had to level it all off and then you plant

what you did. They use to open up holes about that big and you put a big hand of horse

manure in it and it might be two and then a bit of blood and bone in it and then go along with

what they called a fork and fix it all up.

CD: Did a lot of work with the horsed obviously, even though it was swamp ground you still

used them?

FD: Oh, well you had to put boots on the horse otherwise he’d get bogged and it would stop

him from sinking down.

CD: In the winter, didn’t the gardens flood with the water coming into the swamp.

FD: No, they use to work the swamp over all through the winter.

CD: You’d drain them or what did you do?

FD: Yes it was a big drain. All the gardens around here got a bloke to dig a drain right

through the trees right up through, what used to be called Coppman Avenue, and then they

had a big culvert running underneath the road for the water to go through.

CD: And the gardeners paid for it themselves?

FD: Yeah, they all chucked in so much money. Then they say that the lake is drying out

and they need to drain that deep. In the winter time.

CD: In the summer, did you then water the gardens with well water or anything or just didn’t

bother.

FD: No, just natural water.

CD: Just natural water.

FD: Yeah, perhaps when you planted tomatoes or mostly tomatoes in the summer time, you

had to give them a drop of water the night before when you plant them you know to keep the

air from going down to their roots they use to say.

CD: Just waited for the rain otherwise.

FD: Yeah.

CD: Fertiliser was all in the blood and bone and you got that from town as well?

FD: Yeah. You had to mix up sulphate and ammonia. We use to fill up and put water and

put two hands of sulphate and ammonia in it and mix it up.

CD: Who was your supplier source for these kind of things? Were these the auctioneers

again? Did they supply the fertilisers and so on as well?

FD: No, Kirby, one out here.

CD: Now what actually was Kirby? Was he an auctioneer?

FD: No. He had it on the corner of….. North Beach, no, along that side of Scarborough

Beach Road. On that side of Charles Street.

CD: And he sold all of this sort of things? Would you have pests?

FD: Pests?

CD: Did you have any pests?

FD: They use to have to 10:38:35 line to keep everything out. Then if they use to have a

cabbage patch they use to have a square tin like that, square, about that high off the ground,

with a stick and another stick coming over of the top and they had a lamp hanging over it just

about that far off the water. Because the moth followed the light and that’s how they stopped

them from lying eggs in the cabbage.

CD: Ok, quite clever. When did you stop using the horse and cart and got a truck to start

going to Perth with the marketing?

FD: Well I stopped when I came here in 1934.

CD: Right, so until then you still used the horse and cart?

FD: Yeah. Well I didn’t go in I used to get somebody else to cart for me. The horse and

carts went out in about 26 or 27 I think.

CD: Lets come back a bit to those race meetings at Perry’s Paddock. One thing I’d like to

know about was the people who came to those picnics, did they came from outside the area

as well? From Perth and from Bullsbrook and so on? Or was it pretty much just locals?

FD: You mean to bring horses?

CD: Yeah

FD: Yeah, they use to come from town too. They use to come from Swan, yeah. They

used to come right down to Perth to come because there was no roads.

CD: There was a cattle trail wasn’t there?

FD: Yeah. Some of them use to come from Fremantle.

CD: Right, so it was quite a big day?

FD: Yeah. I know a bloke that married one of my wife’s sisters, he use to come from

Fremantle because when we use to talk and he said “I used to come out there with horses”.

He said “I brought Peggie” and I said “Oh, I remember him” I said “we backed him” and he

said “but he shouldn’t have won”. I said “why” and he said “the other horse would have won

Peggie”. But he said the jockey made a mistake – he’d seen the horse coming up here

beside him and he took him for another one and he let him go.

CD: The race around the paddock, was that three or four times around or whatever?

FD: No, they’d start around here or around here and they’d go up like that and come around

and then they’d finish. Sometimes in pony races they’d start here at the foot of the hill, you

know where Paddy’s paddock is, and they’d just go up around there like that. They only

thing is they had to go up that hill twice.

CD: And then the dances, you obviously had every weekend dances or every Saturday or

whatever?

FD: Yeah, well it didn’t matter when they had it, a Wednesday night or a Tuesday night or

they use to have a dance just the same. It didn’t make any difference.

CD: Who provided the music?

FD: Bud McCordy. Mr Johnson use to that. He was over here the other day and he said

the old house is still over there. He said you have to come over here to the Wanneroo Hall,

your father and your uncle Hurly over there and play from 8 o’clock until twelve and then

they’d go back into the bush. When there was no dances at Wanneroo your father and your

uncle Hurly use to go over from here to Bullsbrook by horse and cart and play from 8 o’clock

until twelve and come back.

CD: Did people from here go to Bullsbrook very often for dances as well?

FD: No, no. Sometimes they might go over but not very often. I never ever went over there

to go dance and I don’t know of anyone. Some of the older blokes like the Copmann’s and

the Smiles went over there but I didn’t.

CD: Ok. When your mum started the diary after your dad died, how big herd did she have?

How many cattle?

FD: Oh, I think they must have started off with about eight or nine cows and then Jack Perry

he had a lot of cows.

CD: They had the cattle across to the clay country because of the coast decease? I was

wondering if your mum ever sent hers.

FD: Oh, yeah from here? Yeah

CD: You took your mother? Did you drive them by truck?

FD: No, by horse back. Jack Perry use to get them, you know, charge them so much to

take them over and sent somebody with him to help him and I use to go. George Darch use

to go with him, George Copmann, there was three of us.

CD: Did you stay there with the cattle?

FD: No, we use to take them, leave around four o’clock in the morning and drive them up

and go across Neaves Road. We use to grab Franklin Road and then cut across from there

and go right over there to Bullsbrook to the clay country and stay there that night and come

back the next day.

CD: Leave the cattle behind for a while?

FD: Yeah, leave them there for two, three weeks or four weeks.

CD: Was that a Government reserve or was it somebody else’s paddock that you were

using?

FD: No, somebody else’s paddy. You had to pay some money.

CD: Do you know whose paddock it was?

FD: It used to be Pickett I think his name was. He use to take cattle in. I think it was

Pickett. Sometimes they use to drive them right up to Chiddlers, there used to be a place up

there where O’neil use to take them in too but that was a two days drive. We use to take

them to Bullsbrook and put them on the reserve over there and one had to stock up all night

and ride around on one horse back to see that none of them would, you know, break away

or something like that and then he did two hours or one hour and then the other one would

go around on horseback and keep them as they were.

CD: Dogs? Did you use dogs?

FD: No, we didn’t use no dogs. But they use to take them up to 10:46:21 too. Yeah. That

uses to take them a fortnight.

CD: So Jack Perry obviously did a lot of stock work like that?

FD: Yeah

CD: And he charged for it I suppose?

FD: Yeah

CD: Did he pay you for helping out?

FD: No, you had to help him otherwise he would charge you for stockmen that cost a lot

more money.

CD: Do you have any memory of brumbies in the area? Catching brumbies or so on?

FD: They use to have once every six months down here. The other side of, I can’t think of

the streets now… they use to fence of the water. It was a big paddock that belonged to my

grandad and they use to fence it of so they couldn’t come down to the swamp to get water.

For two, three days the wild brumbies would be lined up trying to get in and then they’d cut

an opening and let them go in and they use to round them up and put them in the yard and

brand a few. Whether it was yours or not, you use to put your brand on it and then it was

your horse.

CD: Ah, fair.

FD: It was only wild brumbies they belonged to nobody. Just, you know, wild brumbies they

were. And if you wanted to take it home to break it in. I only brought one home. My dad

gave it to me it belonged to him, he had a mare down there with his brand on it and he

claimed it and I brought it home. Anyhow, I had it in the yard over there and I use to put the

saddle on it and get on it, it was alright. I took it out and rode it around and I thought this is

good. So I saddled it up one day. He was there and an uncle of mine and I used to use my

uncle’s saddle. So I got on and I jumped on a bit carelessly and up in the air I went and she

bucked and bucked and bucked and bucked the saddle off. He said God Almighty, look

what you’ve done to my saddle. An auntie of mine broke it in for me then.

CD: So it was a lot of work breaking them in?

FD: Yeah, one of the Copmann girls.

CD: Well, Bill Duffy, thanks very much indeed for your time and for your stories. It has been

good and I got some good information down. Thank you very much.

FD: Ah, it’s alright.

End of recording

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