Ex-Scientologists Speak Out - Conference Transcript

8/14/2019 Ex-Scientologists Speak Out - Conference Transcript

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Marc Headley (pt.1)YouTube – Marc Headley (pt.1) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [1 of 17]

Jim Underdown : I’m going to introduce the person who’s going to runthe press conference, but I did want to make one announcement that

[loudly] no outbursts or interruptions will be tolerated during this pressconference. [returns to normal]

Thank you. Mark Bunker will be running the press conference. He is anEmmy award winning journalist. He is the creator of Xenu TV, and along time critic of the church of Scientology. Mark Bunker.

[Applause]

Mark Bunker : Thank you. Now my Xenu TV has been up for over tenyears now exposing Scientology fraud and abuse through streamingvideo and streaming audio and I’m very pleased to know that this pressconference right now is being streamed live over the web all over theworld thanks to Anonymous and we are here today because this is thesecond anniversary of Project Chanology which is the operation thatAnonymous set forth back in February of 2008 to combat Scientologyabuse and every month since then Anonymous members have beenoutside Scientology centers in cities all over the world every monthprotesting fraud and abuse and they’ve.

If you check on YouTube every day they have new videos that they areputting up. They’ve created some terrific websites and they areinoculating the new generation of young people who are really thetarget for Scientology’s recruitment. So for the Scientologists, for theAnonymous people who are here today and those of you who arewatching around the world I want to thank you for all of your efforts. Itsmade a big difference. There are - Now I personally was never aScientologist, but there are five people who are going to be speakinghere today, and well six if we are lucky and the stories that they haveto tell are really pretty amazing and shocking and in some cases evenhorrifying, and the abuse.

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Oh if you could please that’s a god reminder - turn off your cell phones- or at least put them on silent while you’re here.

The stories that they have to tell are pretty amazing and I’m certainlyglad that they’re standing up and speaking out and more and morepeople are doing that every day and we’re so thankful for all of you

folks in the media who are covering this because the problem is thegovernment isn’t doing anything about these abuses which have beensystematic and they’ve been going on for decades. So the moreattention that’s drawn to these abuses, the better and before Iintroduce the speakers I think it’s important to point out that there arereally three different types of Scientologists.

There’s your public paying member. Those are the folks like TomCruise or John Travolta or folks from any walks of life who have themoney that they can actually pay for the very, well the increasinglyexpensive series of courses that make up Scientology’s ‘Bridge To

Total Freedom.’ That’s what L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, called his very expensive path to salvation. Now thosepublic members very often are completely in the dark as to the abusesthat the staff members and the third type of Scientologist are facing ona daily basis and we hope through some of these type of media eventsthat maybe they’ll take a look and maybe they’ll call for action too.

The second type of Scientologists are the Staff members. Those arethe folks who go to work every day in the Scientology centers all over the world and they lead somewhat of a normal life. They’re workinglong hours and they’re being paid peanuts but they essentially can gohome at the end of the day in many cases. But the third type of Scientologist, and this is primarily what we’re talking about today, aremembers of the Sea Org. Now Scientology loves abbreviations andinstead of calling their centres churches, they’re actually calledorganizations, or orgs, for short.

So you will hear people talking about the Boston org, or the Londonorg or the LA org. That’s what they are talking about. And folks in theSea Org actually sign a billion year service contract and they pledge toreturn lifetime after lifetime to work for Scientology in exchange for these expensive courses. And these are the folks that really get thebrunt of the abuse from Corporate Scientology, and I say CorporateScientology because it really is a business.

Unlike most other churches where you’re making a donation as a plateis passed, or you’re tithing, in Scientology you’re actually paying for aself-help course, or a therapy session, or one of L. Ron Hubbard’sbooks or tapes or cassettes and, you know, you have to pay for everything and there are people in Scientology who actually getcommissions from selling these products.




So in those ways and in other ways, it really is more of a Corporationthan a religion and as you’re listening to these stories, keep thinking toyourself, well if a corporation did this, if a regular business did to their employees what Scientology is doing to people in the Sea Org, it wouldnever be allowed to happen. Never. But because they have this cloakof religiosity, Scientology has been able to get away with some really

horrendous crimes and we’re hoping that if enough people speak outthat the government will actually do something about it.

So, let me bring up our first speaker. His story is so amazing that it hadto be put in a book. Mark Headly has written a book called ‘Blown For Good,’ which is really a terrific book that takes you inside the Sea Orgto see what life is like on a daily basis. And especially inside the desertcompound near Hemet California where all the top Scientologyexecutives are, and if you would, please welcome Mark Headley.

[Applause]

Mark Headley : Thanks a lot. I started working at the internationalcompound in Gilman Hot Springs California, called the Gold base, or the Int base in 1990. I worked there from 1990 until 2005.

I basically started working for the Sea Organization when I was 16years old. I was recruited from a Scientology school that I went to inLos Angeles and shortly after joining the Sea Organization I waspromoted to the international headquarters. When I was originallyrecruited I was promised good pay, vacations, time off on theweekends and what I actually experienced in the fifteen years I workedthere was far from that.

The place that I worked at, the organization that I worked for wascalled Golden Era Productions. Golden Era Productions produces allthe films, videos, lectures and so on that get sold to all of theScientology organizations all over the world. Our average day atGolden Era started at about 7:30 and went to midnight each night andthat was our schedule, seven days a week, pretty much every week of the year.

If we were producing well, at some points our meal breaks would beextended from 15 minutes to 30 minutes. Each day we’d havebreakfast, lunch and dinner 15 minutes. If we were doing really good,we’d maybe get 30 minutes.

Also if we were producing really well, we might get part of Christmasday off once a year and if we were doing really well we’d get maybe a30 or 45 minute meal break on Thanksgiving as a reward, just to giveyou kind of an idea of the environment there and you know how muchtime we’re not working.




After I escaped the Sea Organization in 2005 and started my life over, Ireceived a bill from Scientology for over $150,000 for the courses I didwhile I was there. For the entire time that I worked for Golden Eraproductions as an employee, in 15 years I earned a total of $29,000 anhour, which averages out to under 40 cents an hour for the time that Iworked there.

We worked over 100 hour work weeks every week. When I got a noticefrom the Social Security administration after I left I actually got anitemized breakdown for each year that I worked there how much that Imade and in one of the years, I think it was the year 2000, I made1100 dollars for the entire year of the year 2000.

That’s how much money I was paid for working a 100 hours a weekevery week of the year.

Marc Headley (pt.2)YouTube - Marc Headley (pt.2) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [2 of 17]

This is not an isolated circumstance in terms of the wages. Prettymuch all employees that are Sea Org members worldwide, they’re paida maximum of 50 dollars a week and that goes for pretty much all thecountries that Scientology operates in.

That’s how much all of the Sea Org members are paid. At Golden EraProductions there were staff members there specifically in certain

areas where they couldn’t get all of the work done that needed to bedone for the different products that we were producing and outsideprofessionals would sometimes be brought in to do the same jobs thatemployees of Golden Era were doing, Sea Org members were doing.In one case a gentlemen that I knew, he was being paid 50 dollars aweek - about 7 bucks a day - to do work on videos and they werebringing outside professionals in that they were paying 1200 dollars aday to do the same job that this guy was doing.

So, to give you an idea of how much they might have to pay the peoplethat were working there if they were being paid equivalent wages in the

real world - quote unquote. Somebody did the math for me one timeand they basically said that based on the amount of hours I wasworking a week and for the amount of years that I worked there, that if that were translated into a nine to five job in the real world I would haveworked 40 years worth of a nine to five job at Golden Era.

I’m not even forty years old right now.

So before I was even 35 years old I had worked 40 years worth of a


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nine-to-five job starting at 16 years of age starting at Golden EraProductions.

And a lot of people ask, you know, as long as we’re talking aboutmoney, well maybe they don’t have - it’s a group, it has thisphilosophy, maybe they don’t have enough money to pay these people

for the amount of work that they’re doing and all the employees theyhave.

I worked in a cassette manufacturing plant when I first started workingat Golden Era Productions and it was basically demanded that weproduced 50,000 cassettes a week that would get sold to theScientology Organizations all around the world and those cassetteswould sell from anywhere from 20 dollars to 75 dollars each. So justthe sheer amount of potential income from our weekly productionaveraged nearly 4 million dollars that they would make on the productsthat, you know, ten or fifteen people were producing.

Additionally, during my time there, I designed, built and installedaudio/visual systems for Scientology organizations all around the worldand these systems are still being sold and installed by Scientology, theones that I built while I was there during my 15 years of employment.And one set of these systems that would be sold to an averageScientology organization were worth approximately 300,000 dollars.That’s how much they would charge the organization to install it andsend them these systems and they’ve probably made upwards of 10 or 15 million dollars, just on the systems that I installed or built for themwhile I was there.

So there’s no lack of funds to be able to pay the people that areworking for them. A lot of times, when people hear my story, or whenpeople hear about what happens there they ask me, “Well, if it was sobad then why didn’t you just leave? You know, why didn’t you just walkout - walk out and just start over?”

Well, when I finally did have enough courage and had experiencedenough abuse that I did finally decide to escape, in January 2005, Idrove off of the property on a motorcycle. Within 30 seconds of meleaving I was being followed by and SUV that belonged to the securitypersonnel there at the compound.

They chased me down the highway as I was heading into the localtown and they insisted that I come back. They’re yelling at me out thewindow, “You got to come back, you gotta - You can’t leave, you know.Think about what you’re doing.” And I just refused - continued to driveon and they actually ran me of the road on my motorcycle. Theyliterally, just pushed right me off of the road.

I crashed. And when that happened, somebody driving by called 911.




Within five minutes the Sheriff’s deputies arrived. The securitypersonnel had already skedaddled back to the property but the onlyreason I was able to escape was because I had police assistance and Ihad 2 Sheriff’s deputies escorting me into the local town near thecompound.

And this is all detailed in police reports that are available on theinternet but the - during the course of 2 Sheriff’s deputies escorting meinto the nearby town, the Scientology personnel attempted to even stillintercept me and follow me while the police were following me - wereescorting me and only by the threat of them being arrested by thepolice did they back off and let the police take me to safety.

So when people say “Why didn’t you just leave?” That’s why, becausewhen you’re there you see and you hear what happens to people thattry and leave and most of the time, they’re brought back and in rareinstances people actually escape successfully and don’t end up

coming back.So yeah, it’s not the easiest thing for somebody that works there toactually be able to get out.

And then even then once you do get out, you don’t have any money,you haven’t lived in the real world. You don’t even know if you’re goingto be able to get a job, if you’re going to be able to eat tomorrow. Sothere is a lot of aspects to how they’re able to keep people there andwhy more people aren’t leaving and getting out and up here on thestage today.

You may - you’re going to hear other people up here today, that aregoing to tell similar stories to what I’ve told you and similar accounts tomine and I hope this gives you a glimpse into what happens and howthe different people there are treated.

And even once people do leave and once people are able to get out afew people here today witnessed just as few as three or four days agoprivate investigators following me around while I’m driving inHollywood, attempting to find out who I’m talking to, where I’m going,what I’m doing.

I’ve had private investigators dig through my trash, follow me to my -taking my kids to school in the morning, following me to the grocerystore. So there’s no shortage of the things that the things that theScientology organization will do to silence their critics and in a lot of cases even the people that do finally get out of there, or finally doescape, they’re intimidated and they’re harassed so much that theywould never, ever dare speak out or speak to the media about whatgoes on.




And finally, in the past few months and the past year, more and morepeople have had enough courage to say what happened to them andthey’re not afraid of what’s gonna happen to them from the Scientologyorganization or they’re not backing down based on the intimidation thatthey’re getting and hopefully by this and people caring these storiesand getting the word out there we can expose the actual things that

occur there and yeah, hopefully we can end this and hopefully peopledon’t have to suffer like I have.

Thanks a lot.

[applause]

Jeff Hawkins (pt.1)YouTube- Jeff Hawkins (pt.1) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out - [3 of 17]

Mark Bunker : Well, next, we have a fellow who...Well, let me start like this:

About a half a year ago, the Saint Petersburg Times in Florida startedpublishing an amazing series of pieces about the really horrendousphysical and mental abuse going on in the Sea Org at the hands of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. Our next speaker, Jeff Hawkins, worked for 35 years at the upper levels of Scientology,worked right there close to David Miscavige, so close that Miscavigeactually beat our next guest. And I’d like to bring up Jeff Hawkins now.

Jeff Hawkins : Thank you very much.

I’m not actually supposed to be here today, according to the church.Just after I committed to this event, a fellow showed up at my door upin Portland and handed me a subpoena to appear at a deposition andthis was at the request of the church lawyers. And I looked at thedeposition and it said February 12th at 10:00 A.M. And I thought, “Oh,that’s a coincidence!”

Not!

But there’s other reasons that I’m not supposed to be here. Before I leftScientology’s international base, I spent 3 months getting what theycall “security checks,” which is where they put you on the e-meter withthe cans and they ask you, “What are your crimes? What have youdone? What crimes do you have against David Miscavige?” On and onand on and on.

And they just have you confess to anything and everything. This


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literally went on for 3 months until they felt that they had enough dirt onme to show that they could shut me up if I decided to speak out. Andthey’ve tried that.

When I gave an interview to a reporter up in Portland, they contactedthe reporter and said, “Oh, this fellow has horrible crimes. He has

horrible crimes,” and I said, “Good. Good, then expose what thoseare,” you know, because those are going to come right out of myconfessional folders. And that’s what they do to people. They take their private confessional folders and they’ll take anything they’ve confessedto, and they’ll use it to try to shut them up.

The other reason that I’m theoretically not supposed to be here todayis that, before they would allow me to leave the church, I had to sit in aroom with a bunch of lawyers and sign forms, sign a lot of legaldocuments saying that I would never, never reveal what went on atScientology’s international base.

And this was videotaped and so forth, very official. And what they don’ttell you is that there was a burly security guard standing just out of camera range, ready to take me back to the international base andlock me up again if I didn’t cooperate, so I cooperated and I signedeverything that they asked me to sign, and then I left. But that’sanother reason I’m not supposed to be there.

But the biggest reason that I’m not supposed to be here today is that Iwas never supposed to leave the international base. And they takegreat pains to make sure people don’t leave.

I worked for the Church of Scientology for 35 years, some of that inEurope, some of that in the United States. The last 15 years, I was atthe international base in Hemet, California. I was a marketingexecutive.

A lot of you might remember the Dianetics campaign from the 1980swith the exploding volcano. I did those ads. Very successful campaign.

And I... since leaving Scientology, I’ve spoken out extensively aboutthe human rights violations at that base, the physical abuse, the mentaland emotional abuse, and the most common question that I get, whichMarc talked a bit about, is, “Why didn’t you leave? Why didn’t you justget up and leave?”

And the church will tell you, “Oh, they could have left at any time. Theywere free to leave.” And so forth. And I want to give you a little bit of background about that question, because it’s a subject with somedepth and it goes right to the core of Scientology’s philosophy.

Now, the church tries to characterize me as a hatemonger, and they try




to say that I... They love the phrase “anti-religious bigot” and they liketo say that me and these other people are bigots and are haters andhate Scientology, and so forth.

Well, I don’t hate Scientology and, in fact, I have many friends whohave left the church and have continued to practice Scientology, and I

say, “Well, more power to you.” A person’s religious beliefs are their religious beliefs and I don’t interfere with that. But my friends are notabusing anyone, they’re not defrauding anyone, they are not doinganything illegal, and their beliefs and their practices are their own. AndI’m also in touch with many people still currently in the church, and Ican hear the church’s ears pricking up on that one. And they’re verynice people, and most of them very conscientious, very wonderfulpeople. They have been indoctrinated into the Scientology thoughtsystem.

Now, when I first got into Scientology -- and I’ve told people this -- if

there hadn’t been anything good in Scientology, if there hadn’t beenanything workable, I wouldn’t have spent 5 minutes with it. And I spent35 years with it, so obviously there were some things I found goodabout it, to stay that long. And I was very enthusiastic about it in thebeginning. This idea of communicating to others and helping othersand helping the planet and so forth. That all appealed to me, being anidealistic young man.

But above all of that is really this idea of immortality. In the view of Scientology, this is a prison planet and everybody is trapped on thisplanet, and so forth. And one is condemned to live life after life after lifenot knowing anything, in complete darkness and ignorance, and this issupposedly the trap that we’re in. And by moving up the bridge toOperating Thetan, or OT, which is supposed to be a state of highspiritual awareness and power, one is supposed to be fully consciousand aware, and one is supposed to be able to then live life after liferemembering everything that went on in your previous lives. And this iswhat they mean when they talk about “total freedom” or “your eternity”,and so forth and so on.

And I heard a funny story yesterday. Somebody was telling me that aScientologist is talking about his successes in Scientology, and hesays, “I know I have secured my eternity and the eternity after that, andthe eternity...” I don’t know what that meant.

Okay, so...

But for a Scientologist, this isn’t just some Sunday prayer meetingthing, where they show up once a week, and so forth. This is, like,very, very serious activity, and this is what Hubbard said about it. Hesaid, “We are not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn’t cuteor something to do for lack of something better. The whole agonized




future of this planet, every man, woman, and child on it, and your owndestiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you dohere and now with and in Scientology. This is a deadly seriousactivity.”

So this is the kind of tone of the people Scientology activity. When I

was a Scientologist, well, I believed that. I believed this was seriousand that the fate of the planet was at stake, and so forth.

So the greatest fear of any Scientologist, whether they’re Sea Org or public or anything like that, is that, not that they’ll lose their friends or their family or anything like this, but that the topmost fear is that they’lllose what they call “their eternity.”

And I just want to read from a suppressive person order that wasissued by the church some years ago. And it says, “He will never,never, ever again, which I promise you, in any life, ever again, receive

any auditing,” which is the counseling, “or ever have a chance to getout of his trap, and those who are on OT3,” OT level, Operating Thetanlevel 3, “Know what that means. It means to die and die and die anddie again.”

Okay. So it’s not just a death threat. It’s a death, death, death, deaththreat that they’re holding over their heads, and this is serious. If youbelieve in Scientology’s belief system, this is a serious threat. They’vedone the mafia one better. It’s not just, you know, a death threat. It’slike dying over and over and over again.

Jeff Hawkins (pt.2)YouTube- Jeff Hawkins (pt.2) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [4 of 17]

Jeff Hawkins : So this is both the carrot and the stick of Scientologists.It’s both what they’re striving for, which is the immortality, and the stickis, “Well, we could take that away.” They can’t do that. They can’t doeither one of those things, but if you believe in the belief system, youthink that they can.

So the most important thing for Scientology to maintain control over

their people is to keep that belief system intact. If they can keep thatbelief system intact, then, you know, they can keep control.

If you look at all their rules and restrictions, and so forth, in that light,you kind of see where they’re going with this.

For instance, they have disconnection. And they say they don’t, butthey do. And there is many, many thousands of people that have beendisconnected from family, children, parents, because they voiced some


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criticism of Scientology. And if your family or your wife, your husbandor your children voice any criticism of Scientology, bang! You’redisconnected from them. You cannot talk to them. Well, they say“handle or disconnect.”

“Handle” means you get them so that they agree with Scientology, or

at least shut up about it. My mother, for instance, never cared for Scientology, but she learned to keep her mouth shut, because sheknew it would get me in trouble if she spoke out, so she kept quiet. Andso you either stay quiet or you go into agreement with what it is.

So it’s... The irony is that the Church of Scientology says that it’s allabout freedom, but ultimately, it’s really about control.

And the further up you go, the more controlled you are. And when youget up to the higher Operating Thetan levels -- OT7 -- you are very,very tightly controlled by the church. You have to report in to the

Clearwater headquarters every 6 months. You have to have securitychecks. You have to. And they examine every part of their life and theymake sure they’re not reading any critical Internet sites, they’re notreading any critical books, and they don’t have any critical thoughts,and so forth. They really clamp down on these people.

And where I was, at Scientology’s international base, with Sea Orgmembers, that’s the ultimate in control. That is the most tightly, tightlycontrolled place in Scientology. I spent 15 years there. And Marc toldyou some of what it’s like. The place is surrounded by razor wirefences. They’ve got cameras and motion sensors. There’s no way thatyou can get out of there, you know, without touching off these sensorsor alerting the security guards who patrol the grounds, and so forth.And if you want to leave that Hemet compound, you have to getpermission from your boss and from your boss’s boss, and so forth, tobe able to leave the compound. You can’t just walk in and out. Youhave to have an okay.

All letters in are opened, which is against federal law, but they do itanyway. If you get a letter from your parents, they open it first before itgoes to you, and if it contains anything critical of Scientology, well,you’re hauled in and, you know, you say, “Well, you have to handleyour parents or disconnect,” and so forth. And when you write a letter out, same thing. It gets censored.

And there are “musters,” there are this, there are that.

In addition to that, there are physical punishments. People get thrownin the lake out there; they have to run around the buildings. And it’strue, there are also... There is also physical abuse. And I waspersonally beat up on 5 separate occasions by the head of Scientology, David Miscavige, who is supposed to be the leader. He




likes to call himself “the pope of Scientology.” Well, he’s a bully. He’s abully. And interesting we’re in the Steve Allen Theater. Steve Allencalled Scientology “a religion of bullies.” And I think that’s prettyaccurate. And it’s led by the biggest bully of all, which is DavidMiscavige.

So why didn’t I leave? Well, it was the carrot and stick. I didn’t want tolose my eternity. I still had. I still had my faith, even though I was beingphysically and mentally abused. But I finally said, “I don’t care! I don’tcare if I’m damning my soul for eternity or whatever this means. I don’tcare. I have to leave this place, because I will not be abused anymore.” And I walked out. And I had to.

I lost my wife, wonderful woman that I love very much. I lost all myfriends, all my family, who were still in Scientology at that point. Icouldn’t talk to them. And I had to go out with a few dollars in mypocket at age 58 and start a whole new life from scratch. They gave

me no money. They gave me no help. And I knew no one outside of Scientology. And I had to just pick up in a strange city where I knewnobody and build a new life, which I did.

But I have a lot of friends who are still there. They are still inScientology. They are still at the Int Base. And if I were able to getthem one message, I would tell them this: that leaving Scientologydoesn’t mean losing your eternity. It means gaining your freedom.

Thank you.

Mark Bunker : Now Jeff mentioned the fact that you’re living lifetimeafter lifetime and I’ve mentioned that too, and we’re not attackingScientology’s beliefs. They can believe anything that they want.

They just can’t behave anyway that they desire and one of the, youknow, byproducts of believing you’ve lived millions of lifetimes inScientology is that they believe that children are really, you know,ageless beings and they can be plucked away from their families at avery young age and put to work.

And our next speaker faced that very thing and she was recruited at anextraordinary young age to work for Scientology and if you wouldplease welcome Laura Decrescenzo.

Laura Decrescenzo (pt.1)YouTube - Laura Decrescenzo (pt.1) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [5of 17]

Laura Decrescenzo : Thank you. As he’s mentioned I joined the Sea


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Org actually when I was 12 years old. I was actually born intoScientology but both my parents were Scientologists and had beendoing courses in Scientology in Portland Oregon and I actually did myfirst course when I was about 6 or 7 years old and signed my firstcontract, the billion-year contract that was mentioned at the age of 7 or 8.

I started working in an organization in Albuquerque, New Mexico at theage of 9. I got a worker’s permit, somehow, I don’t even know how Imanaged to do this, but when I was 10 I got a worker’s permit and wasgetting paid peanuts for, you know, working usually about 30 or 40hours a week at, you know, 9 until I was about 12 when I joined theSea Org.

The person who came to Albuquerque, to recruit me, basicallypromised all of these things that seemed great to my parents, so,somehow they convinced them to let me go which meant I moved to

Los Angeles. They included things like, I would continue my schooling,I would be able to have kids when I got older, and you know, I’d beable to have kids and move back to Albuquerque or I would do whatwas called the “Bridge to Total Freedom” as other people hadmentioned.

I would get all that for free because I was working for them. All of mymedical and dental expenses which at the age of 12, as you canimagine, most kids have cavities, have, and you know, dental work thatneeds to be done. I’d be able to go home and visit my parents, even upto once a month if I wanted to, because of my age.

All of these promises were made and it was made to seem likesomething that was going to be a wonderful experience. Unfortunately,most of those all turned out to be completely and utterly false. BecauseI was 12, I was considered what they – I was very qualified. I had nolife.

As I’m sure you can imagine most 12 year olds got to school, playvideo games and don’t really have any history that would make themunqualified for what they considered the higher organizations in theSea Organization. In fact one of the things they make you do whenyou’re in the Sea Org is they fill out what’s called a “life history form”.

It’s about 8 pages of extremely personal questions. Everything fromevery medication you’ve ever taken to any drugs you’ve taken, everydate you’ve ever gone on, every sexual experience you’ve ever had ingreat detail and then they put you on an e-meter, their lie detector basically, to verify that you’re telling the truth and at twelve, my lifehistory had nothing.

It was a bunch of no, no, no, no, no, so I was like considered prime




pickings for them. Not to mention the fact at twelve, your mind’sbasically an open slate. You can be programmed however they wantyou to be. So, I joined the Sea Org. I left my parents and moved to LosAngeles.

As I mentioned, pretty much everything they had promised me was a

lie. I didn’t continue my schooling hardly at all. I would go once a week,maybe, with no trained teacher.

And then it came to visiting my parents. Here I am, twelve years old, Iwanted to go home and see my parents for a weekend. My first visithome was a complete and utter nightmare.

I was supposed to leave on a plane and within a few hours of the planeleaving I was told that I couldn’t leave unless I had gone on their e-meter and done a security check and I was like “Well my mom hasbought me a non-refundable ticket. How am I supposed to do this? I’m

supposed to leave in a couple of hours.”They said “Well you can’t. If you do, you’re going to be subject to‘justice’ when you come back.” That basically means that my positionin the organization that I was in would be negated. It meant a lot of things.

When you’re in the Sea Organization, a justice action’s consideredscary. Anyway, so I was like OK, well, how am I supposed to do this?I’m supposed to get on this plane, you don’t mess with my mom’smoney, you know what I mean, this is a non-refundable ticket.

So I said, OK, I’m going to go anyway, so I actually went to thecomplex where I had my berthing at the time. I had gone from the H2Bover to the complex and I got into the super shuttle in the horseshoe of the complex and security actually came out and physically preventedme from leaving.

I had locked the door because I saw somebody from security coming. Iwas freaking out. I was, like, I have to go and he reached in anunlocked the door, opened the door, preventing the super shuttle fromleaving. So from the very beginning you can see, it was taught to methat you don’t mess with them.

They’re going to keep you here even if you don’t want to be there andanyway I ended up catching the plane about 24 hours later and it wason a flight that was arranged by them. Here I am, 12 years old, I leftLAX at about 11 PM at night, with an hour layover in Las Vegas,Nevada.

As a mother now myself I cringe at the thought because here I am 12years old in Las Vegas airport in the middle of the night arriving at




Albuquerque at 3 AM.

Anyway, pretty much every time I wanted time off, it became a similar thing it was a nightmare every single time. I ended up getting marriedat 16. In the Sea Org that’s very common, because you really can’t doanything physically with the person that you’re dating or whatever until

you’re married and I got married and I wanted kids, I’d said that when I joined the Sea Org. I was planning on having children.

Laura Decrescenzo (pt.2)YouTube - Laura Decrescenzo (pt.2) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [6of 17]

And I’m about to talk to you about something that is extremelypersonal, but I’m bringing this to light because it shows how extremethey are when it comes to keeping their people and controlling them

and that is in regards to having children.I actually became pregnant in February 1996 with full intention of having a kid with my husband. I was 17 at the time. When I told myhusband, he was understandably a bit surprised and scared and, Imean, who wouldn’t be scared as a young couple, or even not beingthat young, you know, you’re first kid is something that you could havenerves with, you know.

When we informed the commanding officers of our organizations, I wastold by the commanding officer of my organization that, she

immediately started telling me that at this point, the baby wasn’t ababy, it was just tissue and earlier, about a few months earlier she hadfound herself pregnant.

And in fact, she hadn’t realized she was pregnant until she was about14 weeks pregnant and had gotten an abortion because it was thegreatest good - quote unquote. She started pushing how important my

job was, how it would be so detrimental to the organization if I were toleave, how neither me nor my husband had any money, nor would we,when we left, if we had children.

And after two days of this, of constant pressure and, you know beingthreatened with if I left I would have no money, I would have no life.You know, most people, even at an older age, don’t succeed. I had noschooling. There would be no way that I would be able to support achild and that was what they were continually repeating to me.

I know for a fact that I would have been able to support a child had Igone through with it. But after, you know, days of this, I conceded andhad an abortion and, you know, the other day, about a week and a half


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC8-YulbrA8






ago I went in for a deposition and the lawyer for the Church of Scientology actually asked me, actually he kept rewording questions toget me to say that I agreed to have an abortion.

I never agreed to have an abortion. Did I concede? Yes, I did. Does itkill me every day? Yes, it does. In fact the last, you know, my last

thought, when I went in to get the abortion, in fact I said the word, Isaid “Wait.”

It was not what I wanted, but, you know, unfortunately, thecircumstances went down as they did and the whole subject of wantingto have kids continually came up with me while I was in the SeaOrganization to the point where finally in 2001, I was sent to what’scalled the Rehabilitation Project Force, also know as the RPF in theSea Organization. What that is, is it’s basically - you’re sent there for punishment.

They consider it, you know- their wanting to rehabilitate you quoteunquote to get you back and working on a regular post, but really whatit is, is you’re just sent there to do intensive hard labor for them andyou know you’re put in total segregation from the rest of the world.

I was separated from my spouse. I was separated from everyone thatwas important to me. I wasn’t allowed to speak to my family. You’re notallowed to have more than 20 dollars on you at any given time. You’renot allowed to go anywhere without another person. You’re watched24/7. There’s always someone, you know, out in the hallway awake,outside your rooms and I was there for almost 3 years in the RPF.

I could go on and on, unfortunately, I don’t have too much more timebut in the end I knew that if I had said, you know, I don’t want to do thisanymore, I want to leave, as others you know have said, you gothrough extensive handlings to be kept there.

I knew that if I said I wanted to leave, I would be put on what’s calledthe RPF’s RPF, which, you know, I’m already working, it’s alreadyintolerable circumstances. It’s even more intolerable in the RPF’s RPF.And in fact a friend of mine had been there for 8 months in the RPF’sRPF trying to leave.

So I did something that I knew that would get me kicked outimmediately and I actually took a gulp of bleach, because I knew that if I was considered a suicide risk that they would get rid of meimmediately. And they did. I was not suicidal, but that was the extremeI went to get myself out of there immediately.

After I left the RPF, I actually still considered myself a Scientologist for several years, in fact I paid, you know, I think it was Mark mentioned a$100,000 freeloader bill. I also had a bill from them, saying I owed




them $120,000 for the services I had gotten while I was in the SeaOrganization.

So after spending 13 years of working 100 hour weeks I owed themmoney and I actually paid them $10,000 after I left and it took meabout 4 years to realize that what happened there is not right and

somebody needs to do something about it and that’s why I’m heretoday to start opening up people’s eyes to what occurs in the SeaOrganization because it’s not right and something does need tochange. Thank you.

[Applause]

Will Fry - Ex-Scientologists Speak OutYouTube- Will Fry - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [7 of 17]

Mark Bunker : Our next speaker grew up in Scientology and he’s goingto tell you more of what that’s like, and working for them at a veryyoung age. He started speaking up just recently at some of theAnonymous events and Anonymous has posted his videos on the web.It’s the first time speaking out in public here. This is Will Fry.

Will Fry : Hi. I’m going to need a second. I have... Just from listening toeveryone else; I’m going through, probably, a considerable adrenalinedump. Might be funny, a lot of these things, but it makes me very, veryangry.

You know, just to remind everyone, this isn’t... This isn’t happening inNorth Korea. This is in America.

Okay, so...

I actually did a little YouTube interview leading up to this. You know,we only have about 8 minutes and that’s not a lot of time. And in thatvideo, I was talking... I was speaking about the child Dianetics, thephilosophy of L. Ron Hubbard that children aren’t actually children, butthey’re billion-year-old beings occupying smaller bodies than the rest of us and they should be responsible for just as much as the rest of us.

And this sort of madness. But rather than just point the finger in thatvideo, I wanted to convey how the abusee becomes the abuser.

And I was... I was introduced to Scientology when I was 2 years old. Ieventually went to their boarding schools in the desert of California andeventually, at the age of 17, I joined the Sea Organization. I wanted toleave right away, but it’s hard. It’s a hard thing to overcome, thesensation that you’re a traitor if you leave. You’ve got to fulfill your billion years.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y29iUN__490

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y29iUN__490



Two years later, I just left. I blew, as they say, with no intention of going back, but at the request of my family... Because they didn’t wantto... They didn’t want me to be disconnected from them the way myuncle was disconnected from us for being declared a suppressiveperson in the nineties for taking a refund from the church in Ann Arbor,

Michigan, for services undelivered.The tenth of December this last year, he took his own life.

So I went back, at my family’s request, and it took me about 6 months,being on “the decks,” where you do slave labor, physical labor, no pay.Much like the RPF, you’re under watch and you undergo dailyinterrogations with their version of a lie detector. And it... It messed meup.

Because when you leave, they want you to be absolutely unwilling to

do what I’m doing today, to speak out, and it took me a long time to gethere. I had to wake up and I had to... I had to figure a lot of things outon my own.

But, once again, I want to talk about how the abusee becomes theabuser, and in that first year after I left the Sea Org, I was 20 years oldand I was just trying to escape. Just like, “Give me a fake id, let’s go tothe bar, let’s get drunk, meet girls. And I wanted a girlfriend, but it waskind of hard for any girl to want to have more than a short relationshipwith me, just because, you know, I had some issues. And I still havethem. And I’m in therapy and I’m working all that out, but that’s another subject.

One of my girlfriends, well, you know, we were together for about amonth, was 15 years old. She was an ex-Sea Org member herself. Ispoke about this in the video. We weren’t hiding it. Her parents knew.My friends knew. Other Scientologists... No one was disapproving, butit was wrong, realizing this later, obviously, but... And I’m not going tomention her name or any of the other names of the people involved inthis, but...

She was kicked out of the Sea Org, and you may not realize...

You know, obviously, listening to how hard it is to actually leave onyour own volition, you might not understand just how hard it is to getkicked out. And she was 14 when she was kicked out. And I had heardthe rumors of this when I was in the Sea Org, of why she was kickedout, but didn’t really believe them. And, again, I’m not going to say her name. She deserves her privacy, as does the gentleman in question,but...

There’s a church, not too far from here, called the “Advanced




Organization of Los Angeles.” It’s the Church of Scientologyresponsible for making the OTs up to OT level 5. After that, they haveto go to Clearwater, Florida, the “Mecca.” And this is in 99, 2000, andthe current captain or the leader of the Advanced Organization in LosAngeles was a... about 50-year-old, short Italian man, and she was hisassistant, and they were having sex.

And when the church found out, they kicked her out. They let her momand stepfather, who also worked at the AOLA, or AdvancedOrganization of Los Angeles, leave quietly, to watch over her in thereal world, to make sure she wouldn’t, you know, reveal anything.

And they put him on the RPF, not the local RPF, you know, they senthim out, I think, overseas or to the Int Base. Someone could probablytell you, but I’m not here to say, you know, “So and so is a pedophile.”He could be just as screwed up as I was when I left and, you know...

The point of what I’m saying is that the willingness of this organization,the Sea Org, the Office of Special Affairs, the Church of ScientologyInternational, to circumvent the justice system in this country, isabsolutely paramount to any idea that they would need to suffer anybad public relations. That’s their priority.

They don’t dial 911 on their own. They never have and they never will.And that’s what the RPF is for: to bury people alive. If somethinghappens they don’t like, they can go away.

And, you know, there’s other people that could confirm this story, noteven... I doubt anyone from the church will, but people have left, sincethen, that would have full knowledge of this, besides the actual peopleinvolved, for example, a guy like Mike Rinder, the former head of theOffice of Special Affairs, OSA, formerly known as the Guardian’sOffice, or the single largest infiltrator of the U.S. Government. You canlook that up: “Operation Snow White.” Google it. They changed thename, but they didn’t change the game plan.

Anyway, he’s still a Scientologist, Mike Rinder. He just didn’t like theabuses towards him, though he was personally responsible for ruiningcountless lives. I’m sure he knew about it. And others, but...

And you’ll have to forgive me. Despite the advice of my constituentshere, I didn’t write anything down. It’s just not my style.

All right.

Look, I have a lot more stories to tell, and that’ll happen in the future. If you want, you can just go on to YouTube and search my name, WillFry, F R Y. It’ll pop right up. And I look forward to talking more with youall, and thank you for having me.






stuck there and I had somebody watching me always – 24 hours a day.

I had to have a buddy with me. I had someone shining a flashlight inmy face at might while I was sleeping every 2 hours to make sure Iwas still in bed. On the few occasions that I did manage to run away Iwas tackled and brought back physically.

One of the men that tackled me was a guy named Chris Guider whowas an ex professional Australian football player. He was big and Icouldn’t go up against that but I kept trying.

One of the last times on the RPF at the end of 1997 I got into a fightwith one of the other RPFers and he broke my hand on a table andsmashed me into some bookshelves and I was pretty bruised up and Ibasically said, “Hey, I’m fed up with this.

If you guys don’t let me out of here I’m just going to stop sleeping and

eating and I’m just going to die because, you know, I wanted myfreedom. I didn’t like being treated like a prisoner when I’d doneabsolutely nothing wrong besides, you know, not wanting to work thereanymore for nothing.

So that night I was talking to – you know it’s OK. You can get somesleep. It doesn’t mean that, you know, they were saying, they wouldmaybe talk to me the next day about why I wanted to leave and treatme nicer, so I actually went to bed.

I didn’t keep my threat of not sleeping or eating and that night I actuallywas able to run away.

I heard the two people outside my door guarding it, walk away from itand I’d gone to be dressed and I – this is out in Hemet at the place thatthey called “The Ranch” or Happy Valley, which is – they don’t own itanymore but they used to own it – near the Soboba Indian Reservationand I ran behind the Indians’ houses so the security guards couldn’tget me but there was a search party that went out for me.

They even had a dog. They had a couple of trucks, a bunch of people just out at … 4 or 5 in the morning trying to find me and I made it all theway to my Aunt’s house.

I hitched rides, I took the bus and when I got to my Aunt’s house andofficial from the Church Of Scientology showed up at her house andthey brought my sister and they said if you come back – sorry – you’llget to talk to your sister, you’ll get to talk to your husband and youwon’t have to do the Rehabilitation Project Force and we’ll treat youbetter and made all these promises and I wanted it to be true but whenI went back I got stuck there for another 3 damn years and my sister didn’t talk to me and my husband divorced me and it was rough.




Three years I was in semi-isolation. I had to do manual labor every daydespite the fact that my back and my neck were in bad shape frompast injuries. It drove me nuts. I was in so much pain.

I mean I was – I lost my will to live at one point and they finally stopped

harassing me because they were afraid I was going to die on them.And like, “That would be bad public relations for the church for somebody to die on our premises - because it already happened out inClearwater - Lisa McPherson died.

So we don’t want it to happen again,” so they finally let me go, but atthat point I didn’t want to go I needed to be taken care of. I was like abasket case anyway I don’t really want to – obviously I’m still alive.

I made it out and I’m living my life but the reason I’m talking out really

is that, I’m not against any of the Scientology belief system that helpspeople, not against the idea that the mental health system needs to bereformed. I’m not against any of these good things.

I’m against the abuses, the treatment, you know. I worked for the SeaOrganization for 18 years. I got involved when I was 16 years old and Iworked hard for them.

I worked sometimes over 20 hours a day, 7 days a week … for lessthan 30 cents an hour and yet when I couldn’t do it anymore, I couldn’tbe a workhorse for them anymore and I didn’t want to be there, I wastreated like I was a criminal …

What happened to me is illegal and I think that I was in such badshape after it happened that I wasn’t able to deal with it right away but Iam now able to speak up about it and explain to people thatScientology has a dark side and it needs to be faced and theyshouldn’t be allowed to get away with this kind of stuff just becausethey’re a religion.

I’ve got one minute left. I’m trying to think of what else I want to say. Alot of people ask me how did you get involved and we’ve had a coupleof people here explain the recruitment process and one of the thingsthat happened to me when I was really, really young when I was 15years old actually, at a Scientology Mission.

I didn’t have enough money to buy the Scientology courses and they’dbeen marketed to me really well and I was interested and I wanted tostudy them so joining staff was promoted to me as a work/studyprogram where you join staff and then you are able to get your courses

just because you’re on staff.




So I did that. The first year I worked at a mission I didn’t get – I mean, I just worked and worked. I was like a workhorse. I worked mimeograph,I did reception. I wasn’t getting paid and I didn’t get any Scientologycourses.

So I was like wanting these Scientology courses, because there were

so many people saying how great it was. So then when I was 16, aSea Organization recruiter came to recruit me. He approached mewithout my mother around.

He promised me a lot of things; help with my education, that I wouldget to finish high school and college and that I would get all thesewonderful things. I’d get to learn Scientology.

I’d get room and board and medical and dental and I’d get to visit myfamily every year for 3 weeks and it would be just wonderful. So hewent to my mother’s house to get her permission and she was drunk

and the recruiter got her to sign the permission slip anyway.My little brother was there, he was only fourteen, and she said, “Hey,you want to come too?” And my little brother, “Sure.”

So we got stuck on a plane to Clearwater, Florida and I’d say wearrived and we were put to work right away doing laundry for one of thehigher organizations there.

I was up ‘til literally 2 o’clock in the morning, 4 o’clock in the morningdoing laundry every day – laundry and cleaning rooms for about amonth and at the end of it I was like, “Oh my God! What am I doinghere? I can’t do this.

I can’t be staying up all night and not going to school and all this andthe person who’s my senior said, “Well, actually we were wrong. Wemade a mistake. You’re not supposed to be doing this work.

We’re going to have you do this other program where you do somestaff training first and you’ll get you’ll get enough sleep and you’ll be ona proper schedule and, you know, we just needed to follow L. RonHubbard’s rules properly.

We weren’t doing it before and so, you know, we apologize so you canstay because that’s not going to happen again. So then I stayed even if I was to have left, I didn’t have any money, my mom didn’t have anymoney.

What would I have done in Clearwater, Florida at that age? So I did thenext step which was some basic staff training and I had to sign a nocharge invoice for $3000. I was 16 years old and I was signing thisthing saying that if I left I would owe them $3,000 and it just kept piling




up over the years. I think by the time I was 17 or 18 I would have owedthem $20, $30,000 for just staff training – I didn’t do any Scientologytraining.

It was just basic administrative stuff like “Here’s your basic 3 basketsystem and here’s how you write dispatches and here’s how you

request purchase orders.” Things like that.There’s so many things I could say. Eighteen years is a long time. Icould tell you story after story and a lot of it you wouldn’t believe itcould actually happen here in the state of California and in Clearwater.

The only other thing that I’d say I want to point out is that there isdefinitely a lack of respect for the human body and health I found justsort of predominantly in a lot of the Sea Organizations and I found thatout the hard way because I had an accident in 1993.

I injured myself in a motorcycle crash – injured my neck, my shoulder and I went back to work 2 days after almost breaking my neck in anaccident and I want to tell you what I did for a job.

You see this guy here with a camera on his shoulder? That’s what I didfor them. So after my accident where I tore a bunch of muscles in myshoulder and my arm and my neck, herniated 3 discs in my neck, I hadto go back to work and carry a camera on my shoulder and I was notallowed to take pain-killers and I had to do that for long, long hours andman, that was tough.

I get people saying “Hey, you know, you were nuts.”

In Scientology, I got in trouble for having a nervous breakdown. Youwould too if you were working over 20 hours a day and you had tocarry around a camera on a shoulder that you’d almost broken.

It was tough and there’s no – there should be employer’s responsibilityfor safety and care of the workers and most companies have some sortof oversight on how workers are treated – their safety and their healthand within the Scientology Organizations there was really hardly any of that.

That’s another thing that I think really needs to be corrected. Justbecause something is a religious group doesn’t mean that they can justthrow the safety and health of their workers out the window - withouttaking proper measures to look after their health.

That’s all. Thanks.




Maureen Bolstad (pt.2)YouTube - Maureen Bolstad (pt.2) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [9 of 17]

I hitched rides, I took the bus and when I got to my Aunt’s house and

official from the Church Of Scientology showed up at her house andthey brought my sister and they said if you come back – sorry – you’llget to talk to your sister, you’ll get to talk to your husband and youwon’t have to do the Rehabilitation Project Force and we’ll treat youbetter and made all these promises and I wanted it to be true.

But when I went back I got stuck there for another 3 damn years andmy sister didn’t talk to me and my husband divorced me and it wasrough.

Three years I was in semi-isolation. I had to do manual labor every day

despite the fact that my back and my neck were in bad shape frompast injuries. It drove me nuts. I was in so much pain.

I mean I was – I lost my will to live at one point and they finally stoppedharassing me because they were afraid I was going to die on them.And like, “That would be bad public relations for the church for somebody to die on our premises - because it already happened out inClearwater - Lisa McPherson died.

So we don’t want it to happen again,” so they finally let me go, but atthat point I didn’t want to go I needed to be taken care of. I was like a

basket case anyway I don’t really want to – obviously I’m still alive.I made it out and I’m living my life but the reason I’m talking out reallyis that, I’m not against any of the Scientology belief system that helpspeople, not against the idea that the mental health system needs to bereformed. I’m not against any of these good things.

I’m against the abuses, the treatment, you know. I worked for the SeaOrganization for 18 years. I got involved when I was 16 years old and Iworked hard for them.

I worked sometimes over 20 hours a day, 7 days a week… for lessthan 30 cents an hour and yet when I couldn’t do it anymore, I couldn’tbe a workhorse for them anymore and I didn’t want to be there, I wastreated like I was a criminal.

What happened to me is illegal and I think that I was in such badshape after it happened that I wasn’t able to deal with it right away but Iam now able to speak up about it and explain to people thatScientology has a dark side and it needs to be faced and they


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpAbLLi9vvs







shouldn’t be allowed to get away with this kind of stuff just becausethey’re a religion.

I’ve got one minute left. I’m trying to think of what else I want to say. Alot of people ask me how did you get involved and we’ve had a coupleof people here explain the recruitment process and one of the things

that happened to me when I was really, really young when I was 15years old actually, at a Scientology Mission.

I didn’t have enough money to buy the Scientology courses and they’dbeen marketed to me really well and I was interested and I wanted tostudy them so joining staff was promoted to me as a work/studyprogram where you join staff and then you are able to get your courses

just because you’re on staff.

So I did that. The first year I worked at a mission I didn’t get – I mean, I just worked and worked. I was like a workhorse. I worked mimeograph,

I did reception. I wasn’t getting paid and I didn’t get any Scientologycourses.

So I was like wanting these Scientology courses, because there wereso many people saying how great it was. So then when I was 16, aSea Organization recruiter came to recruit me. He approached mewithout my mother around.

He promised me a lot of things; help with my education, that I wouldget to finish high school and college and that I would get all thesewonderful things. I’d get to learn Scientology.

I’d get room and board and medical and dental and I’d get to visit myfamily every year for 3 weeks and it would be just wonderful. So hewent to my mother’s house to get her permission and she was drunkand the recruiter got her to sign the permission slip anyway.

My little brother was there, he was only fourteen, and she said, “Hey,you want to come too?” And my little brother, “Sure.”

So we got stuck on a plane to Clearwater, Florida and I’d say wearrived and we were put to work right away doing laundry for one of thehigher organizations there.

I was up ‘til literally 2 o’clock in the morning, 4 o’clock in the morningdoing laundry every day – laundry and cleaning rooms for about amonth and at the end of it I was like, “Oh my God! What am I doinghere? I can’t do this.

I can’t be staying up all night and not going to school and all this andthe person who’s my senior said, “Well, actually we were wrong. Wemade a mistake. You’re not supposed to be doing this work.




We’re going to have you do this other program where you do somestaff training first and you’ll get you’ll get enough sleep and you’ll be ona proper schedule and, you know, we just needed to follow L. RonHubbard’s rules properly.

We weren’t doing it before and so, you know- we apologize so you canstay because that’s not going to happen again. So then I stayed. Evenif I was to have left, I didn’t have any money. My mom didn’t have anymoney. What would I have done in Clearwater, Florida at that age?

So I did the next step which was some basic staff training and I had tosign a no charge invoice for $3000. I was 16 years old and I wassigning this thing saying that if I left I would owe them $3,000 and it justkept piling up over the years. I think by the time I was 17 or 18 I wouldhave owed them $20, $30,000 for just staff training – I didn’t do anyScientology training.

It was just basic administrative stuff like “Here’s your basic 3 basketsystem and here’s how you write dispatches and here’s how yourequest purchase orders.” Things like that.

There is so many things I could say. Eighteen years is a long time.

I could tell you story after story and a lot of it you wouldn’t believe itcould actually happen here in the state of California and in Clearwater.The only other thing that I’d say I want to point out is that there isdefinitely a lack of respect for the human body and health I found justsort of predominantly in a lot of the Sea Organizations and I found thatout the hard way because I had an accident in 1993.

I injured myself in a motorcycle crash – injured my neck, my shoulder and I went back to work 2 days after almost breaking my neck in anaccident and I want to tell you what I did for a job.

You see this guy here with a camera on his shoulder? That’s what I didfor them. So after my accident where I tore a bunch of muscles in myshoulder and my arm and my neck, herniated 3 discs in my neck, I hadto go back to work and carry a camera on my shoulder and I was notallowed to take pain-killers and I had to do that for long, long hours andman, that was tough.

I get people saying “Hey, you know, you were nuts.” In Scientology, Igot in trouble for having a nervous breakdown. You would too if youwere working over 20 hours a day and you had to carry around acamera on a shoulder that you’d almost broken.

It was tough and there’s no – there should be employer’s responsibilityfor safety and care of the workers and most companies have some sort




of oversight on how workers are treated – their safety and their healthand within the Scientology Organizations there was really hardly any of that.

That’s another thing that I think really needs to be corrected. Justbecause something is a religious group doesn’t mean that they can just

throw the safety and health of their workers out the window - withouttaking proper measures to look after their health.

That’s all. Thanks.

Q&A (preliminary)Ex-Scientologists Speak Out - Q&A [10 of 17]

Question : [Inaudible]

Mark Bunker : Their attorney is here – Barry Van Sickle and he’ll behappy to talk to you about that.

Question : Why are you all coming together today? [12 February 2010]

Mark Bunker : Today? Well it’s the second anniversary of theAnonymous movement, and we thought well, let’s mark that in somespecial way and that’s really why we all gathered together to tell thesestories today.

Question : So this is completely separate and apart from the lawsuits?

Mark Bunker : Right.

Question : This is similar to something we’ve had in Australia lastNovember. Are you aware of that?

Mark Bunker : Yes

Question : [Inaudible]

Mark Bunker : I didn’t put it together. I would say it probably is a

motivating factor. There was also a big thing in Hamburg last year too,where Jeff was part of that I believe, right? No? Oh, Mark was – MarkHeadley was. So this has been popping up from time to time. We’rethrilled that we can get the word out anyway…

Question : How many of the individuals who spoke were interviewedfor the St. Petersburg Times article?

Mark Bunker : Jeff was. You want to? [Gestures to Geoff]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g77IlzzjGxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g77IlzzjGxA



Jeff Hawkins : Yes. What was the question?

Question : I just wondered if any of the individuals who spoke hadpreviously been interview for the St Petersburg Times series or anyother [inaudible]

Jeff Hawkins : Yes I was. I was interviewed for St. Petersburg Timesand I know Mark was as well and other people that are not here butthere are a lot of people speaking out now. More and more people arespeaking out, because it is becoming safer to do so. They can’t prettymuch go after everybody.

Question : Why do you think that there has been this momentum now?

Jeff Hawkins : Because it was partly due to the AnonymousMovement, because they started these pickets and that absorbed a lot

of church attention and it also made it safe for individuals to then stepforward and say “I was abused. I was abused.”

That started happening and that started snowballing with more andmore people speaking out and now it has become very safe to speakout against the church because like I say, they can’t go after everybodyand in previous years there were so few people speaking out that theycould narrow in on those few people, follow them with privateinvestigators and harass them until they shut up.

And now it’s just becoming very widespread and part of the reason for that I think is because the Church itself is disintegrating

Question : [Question regarding action being taken in current lawsuits]

Mark Headley : I’ll just tell you exactly. In my case, I gave you some of the details concerning my employment history with the Scientologyorganization and basically what’s happened is I brought a lawsuit.

My case was filed last year and my case is basically saying they’vebroken the labor laws and they’re involved in human trafficking and mywife has also brought a case against them for coerced and forcedabortions as well as violations of the labor laws and human traffickingand essentially what’s occurring is that they are producing products,they’re employing people, they’re telling the people that work for them,their employees that they’re volunteers and that they don’t have to bepaid and they’re not paying these people.

The reason why I get followed by private investigators and they’vespent millions and millions of dollars fighting my case is that currentlythey have 5000 employees worldwide. They pay each of those people$50 a week. If they were found in violation of the labor laws and they




were enforced with the Scientology organization their weekly pay of $250,000 dollars that they spend on labor would go up to nearly$4,000,000 a week which is $200,000,000 a year.

So this is a very big deal. There’s a lot at stake. When I first came outand when I first started speaking I was one of a handful of people that

had spoken out against them and in the years that I’ve been speakingout against them I’ve experienced insane amounts of harassment andintimidation and the fact that more and more people are coming out,they’re getting spread thinner and thinner and like Jeff said, they can’tgo after everybody.

Now there’s approximately anywhere from 20 to 50 people that arenow speaking out and this is occurring in America, this is occurring inGermany, this is occurring in Australia, this is occurring in Europe. It’sbasically the exact the same thing – Scientology only has one set of policies and those are applied worldwide.

So if it’s happening here in Hemet, California, it’s happening in LosAngeles, it’s happening in Sacramento, it’s happening everywhere. Sowhat’s happening with the cases; the cases are scheduled for November 2010 trial date right now.

That’s my case specifically. There are another 3 cases that have beenfiled against them that are very similar to mine and they’ve hired thebest labor attorneys money can buy – multiple firms to represent themand their various organizations and this is definitely not over.

Question : [re: whether Senator Xenophon’s proposed inquiry intoScientology in Australia entails investigating the same organization inAmerica.

Mark Headley : I’m not aware of how that works but all of the moneyfrom all of the various organizations around the world all goes to thetop so if they’re fighting, or they’re inquiring into Scientology inAustralia, they’re most definitely inquiring the exact same people thatrun the organization here in Los Angeles and everywhere around theworld.

Nancy Many (pt.1) - Ex-Scientologists Speak OutYouTube- Nancy Many (pt.1) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [11 of 17]

Mark Bunker : ...and bring up our last speaker, because she’s gotsome fascinating stories to tell as well. She also has written a bookand it’s really terrific book, called My Billion Year Contract.

She got into Scientology when she was a youth in college and she washanging out with her stoner friends’, thinking there’s got to be more


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ML-kv3v1o




than this. And there was. Unfortunately, it was Scientology.

And she’s Nancy Many and she’s got quite a story to tell.

Nancy Many : Hello, guys. I haven’t... Jeff and I haven’t actually talkedabout this, but our time... the length of time of involvement is pretty

extensive. Because I did join as a teenager, and I still haveinvolvement, not directly from the inside, but from the outside.

I wrote my book, basically as a... Part of it was this: the healing kind of a thing. My experiences throughout Scientology are very varied andthey are... They touch upon almost everybody here and some areasthat are not there.

I’ve experienced the RPF. I have worked for their intelligence bureau.Now, I’m talking about deep-cover intelligence from... for both theSnow White program that was implemented years ago by the

Guardian’s Office.The Office of Special Affairs took over the Guardian’s Office and said,“We don’t do these kinds of things any more. We are totally legal anddo what we are supposed to do.” And I was also a deep-cover under ...spy... an undercover spy for OSA. And I can categorically state thatthat is not true.

There is not much difference between what I was asked to do in theGuardian’s Office and what I was asked to do in OSA. Intelligence ismeant to... Mike Rinder said it very; very well, “You have an attacker.You have a person who is in your sights and you want to find the mostvaluable thing about that person, so that then you can threaten it. Andby threatening it, you’ll get that person to back down.”

So that’s... That is the policy, the modus operandi. That was how theyworked in the GO and that was how they continue to work now. Nowthey have the extra buffer of attorneys, hire more private investigators.It’s much more expensive now than it was with the GO. And you havethe attorney-client privilege, so the church doesn’t know whatever their attorney did. They don’t know, or even if they did, they wouldn’t shareit.

I also worked with Hubbard. I was Hubbard’s assistant when he was inhiding, and he had basically 7 divisions of his organization. And he hadan assistant for each one of these divisions. And I was over thedivision called “Division 6,” which is “public relations and worldwideexpansion,” which includes celebrities. And it includes how to getpeople into Scientology. Now do you get it?

I mean, everybody in this room would probably think, “I would never...You could never...” Oh, I’m telling you, you could!




I was on a radio show a number of months ago, where I did arecruitment cycle on the radio announcer, and he was just like, “Whoa,yeah, I’d like that.” The training to be able to get somebody intoScientology, whether they’re celebrities or not, is basically the same.

The difference with the celebrities is they are handled with kid gloves.They are handled a bit; they don’t plow in, because if a regular personblows off and says, “I don’t like you,” they don’t care. But if it’s acelebrity, they’ve got a lot of investment and they want that celebrity.And they don’t want that celebrity bad-talking you.

I left the church, the Sea Organization. I stopped working at all for theSea... for Scientology in 1986 or 1987. And during that time, I thenbecame a public Scientologist, because I did it backwards. I was notpublic, I was like many on the stage, I started at the top and then kindof went down.

The end result was they got a hold of an email that I had sent to awoman who was in doubt about Scientology. She was confused. I feltvery similar to her. I really felt a kindred spirit there. She was in SouthAfrica and there was a lot of stuff going on. And she wrote to mesaying, “How can you talk to me? You’re a Scientologist. You’re notsupposed to talk to me, because I’m declared.” And I wrote back, withmy real name, saying, “I’m not afraid of talking to you. I’m afraid of thespies that Scientology is going to put near you.”

And in actual fact, I found out years later she never got that telex. In 5months, I was called in to the HGB building, where OSA intelligence is,and I was handed that email. The irony of being handed that email inthe inner sanctum of Scientology was not lost on me, but seemed to belost on the people on the other side of the table. They didn’t quite getthe concept. I also found out that the woman involved in South Africanever did receive it herself.

They offered me help. They said, “Okay, we have somebody. We’reready to help you. We know you have all kinds of doubts andconfusions about Scientology. You’ve invested a lot of your life, a lot of your time, and we’re going to help you.” And they brought me in for basically what was an interrogation. It was. My therapist called it verysimilar to what they did to the men in... that were captured in NorthKorea. And she said, “The one thing, Nancy, that you can say for yourself and your strength is that it took them so long to crack you.”

And they did. They cracked me. I had a psychotic break.

And this psychotic break was so intense that I was brought in restraintsin an ambulance to a hospital, where I did not even recognize myhusband. And this out-of-reality continued. It took me a long time to




recover. I didn’t have any particular help. The quote-unquote church... Ifelt... They were not helping at all, let’s just say that.

The Scientology doctor they had sent me to, had put me on a drugcalled “chloral hydrate,” the same drug that they gave to LisaMcPherson, who died.

I was told it was the same drug that Doctor Denk had found for L. RonHubbard, that was not such a psychiatric drug that he could take. Andhe has died. It was found in the body of... It was actually found as thecause of death of Pamela Ander-- not ... is it Pamela Ander--? No,who’s the... Her son died and then she died? Anna Nicole Smith.

It was the... this drug was the cause of her death. That’s what the finalthing came out. Chloral hydrate. Chloral hydrate was the name of thedrug.

I was having my own little opposite day after the hospital and decidedthat we would do the opposite. So I stopped taking everything thatScientology had told me to take, the huge doses of vitamins that, Ifound out later, when I found out that Lisa had died. They’d give her huge doses of vitamins. And a specialist doctor got on the line and saidit wasn’t any one of these vitamins. It was the mixture of these vitaminsthat they gave her, sometimes forcing down her throat that killed her.

Nancy Many (pt.2) - Ex-Scientologists Speak OutYouTube- Nancy Many (pt.2) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [12 of 17]

Nancy Many : I didn’t know that she had died. My interrogation andloss of sanity occurred 6... about 6 to 7 weeks after her death. I foundout a year later when I was in much better mental health that that hadoccurred. And it was so similar. And the doctor was... This... There wasthe same the same doctor involved in both our cases.

I tried to do many things to heal. I don’t know if any of you have knownsomeone who’s had a breakdown, a psychotic break. You definitelyare not here with the rest of us. You are definitely seeing things thatothers don’t see. And you might know that they don’t see them, so you

have to keep quiet about it. That’s how I got to drive a car.And every year, I did a little something on the anniversary of that, for my healing. And one year, I wrote, under a pseudonym namedKathryn, the story, which was the nutshell of my memoir. And I wrotethe story of Kathryn, of how they drove me insane and did nothing tohelp me arrange it back into life. In fact, if... if I was ever dumped, I waspretty dumped.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5TubYLomzY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5TubYLomzY



So I posted that and my experience in OS-- in intelligence knew that,okay, it’s on the Internet. They’re about reading it now. Okay, let’s see.Who’s my first phone call? And my first phone call was the person thatI expected, and I said, “Okay, I’ll have lunch with you.” And his firstquestion to me, or one of his first questions to me was, “How often doyou speak to Arnie Lerma?” At that time, Arnie Lerma was Target

Number 1 within the church and for the church.Now, what wasn’t known was that I didn’t send it to Arnie as myself. Ido know Arnie and Arnie knows it was me now. But at the time, I justfelt he was a very safe person and I wanted to have it put out by him.

Over the years, I’ve written my memoir for my own personal health, butI’ve gotten responses from people. I recently went to Boston, to alibrarians’ show, and put together just about a third of the emails andinformation that I have gotten from individuals that have gone throughsimilar cases of mine. Worldwide. Families of suicides. Families, now,

of murderers who were Scientologists, who’ve now become murderers.I was... I would get these one at a time and just put them in the filefolder. And when I sat down to go through them all, I was stunned. Iwas absolutely stunned that this mental abuse had been going on,worldwide, systemic to Scientology. As a Sci[entologist] having workedwith intelligence, I am more than readily aware of the consequencesthat could befall me, but I am even more aware this has got to stop.This has got to stop. These are people!

There was one woman that, after a special handling, she found thatshe couldn’t drive on the freeway for a year, because she kind of hadthis suicidal thing of “What would happen if I just turned into that other car?”

Other people that were really, really traumatized. I became friends witha gentleman, over the phone, who was... had a psychotic break. Hewas in Florida. And his name is Greg Bashaw. “Death of aScientologist.” He was from Chicago. He had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on Scientology. He was on the upper levels. Hehad quit jobs that Scientology didn’t agree with. I mean, $200,000 ayear, to quit that job, is... is pretty much dedicated to Scientology.

In my book, I have the last letter that he wrote to the head of theScientology organization in Florida. His wife gladly let me print it. And Ididn’t change a word. And there will be some Scientology words inthere that some of you might not understand.

When she was in negotiations for settlement with the Church of Scientology, they caught her without any lawyer, or friend, or person,and at a very down spot, offered her a pittance of money. And I don’tknow the figure, because that is confidential. But I know it’s a pittance,




because she’s still in danger of losing her home and her husband hadpaid Scientology over $300,000, mostly on credit cards that she wasstill liable for.

When she was given the form to sign, there was a line that said, “I willnever speak to the press or write a book about what happened to my

husband.” And she refused to sign it. And she said, “I might write.” Andshe will come out, on her own, and have her own words to say. But theScientologist that was giving her the pittance of a check said, “Oh,that’s okay. I’ll just cross out that line, because who would want to hear about your husband anyway? Who would ever care, or read, about thedeath of a Scientologist?” So he just crossed it off.

I hope you people today can relay the fact that people are dying.People are dying. People are going psychotic, which is, as Greg and Italked on one side... one of our phone calls before he passed away,we understood why Christopher Reeve kept living. Because he had his

mind. If you do not have your mind, you do not have a life.And Scientology... The number of people that have just written to me,or on the Internet, or responded to my book, of “Oh, my God! I never told anybody, but 15 years ago, I was psychotic. And I didn’t tellanybody. And I somehow brought myself back and out of it.”

That’s why I speak. It’s still happening.

When was that murder? A week ago? The Scientology boss...

Man’s voice : It was December.

It was about a month ago.

We have Jeremy, a psychotic child of Scientologists, refusedpsychiatric help, who stabbed... stabbed his mother to death 77 times.This is happening all over the world. I have one communication from

just a woman in Copenhagen who, just off the top of her head, I swear she listed 20 people that were dead, that she personally knew. Andthey were dead because of this group.

I think about, “How does that happen? How come I was...? I did not runout of that counseling room when I knew they were really, reallyinterrogating me and driving me to the brink of insanity?”

And I come back to the very first course I ever took in Scientology,which now... The upper indocs have been separated out and they arecalled the “training routines.” And the upper indocs are the upper levelsof them. And everybody talks. Part of it is the talking to the ashtray.Most of you may have heard about talking to the ashtray and lifting theashtray. I think someone... Tom Cruise even had somebody here lifting




an ashtray.

But the basic of those... of that policy, called “upper indocs,” is control.

And control to the fact of physical control. That you are in physicalcontrol of the body, of the person, that you are in front of. Your chair is

placed strategically in front of the door, so that you can’t get out. If theydo get out, which I’ve seen some get out, there’s a code word they’vecalled “HCO Bring Order” and that means every able-bodied person inthe vicinity is to tackle that person

Nancy Many (pt.3) - Ex-Scientologists Speak OutYouTube- Nancy Many (pt. 3) - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out [13 of 17]

Nancy Many : and either remove him from the premises or bring himback to where they want him to be. They control. And that 8C, which I

don’t know what the “8” means, but I know the “C” means “control” --was in the very first course that I learnt.

So when I was sitting in there, in my final day of interrogation, havingthe dry heaves over a garbage can, while I could look out the windowand see my car and wanted nothing more than to be in that car. Thosecourses of 8C and the fact that she’s got the door and there’s acamera in the room, the fact that I was on the eleventh floor of theHGB building, which was... which is where OSA is. To get from there tomy car, if I got past her, I would never get past the security guards, or the cameras, or get on an elevator, or find a stairwell.

And that does bring me back to the very beginning course that theyteach in Scientology. Like I said, now, time has changed. They havemore initial courses, but the course used to be the first course, andnow it’s separated out, and it’s done at a later time. But it is still out inexistence. And it is still called “upper indocs.” And it’s where you aretaught and trained to physically control another person’s body againsttheir will. Against their will. You are trained. To control another person’s body.

This gentleman is no longer with us. He was on one of the highest

levels, OT7. He had given over $300,000. He gave his life. He evenalso worked in espionage. I don’t know if you know that there used tobe a group called the “Cult Awareness Network,” but that was takenover by Scientologists. And he was an integral part of the espionageand undercover work that went in to that takeover of that building... Imean of that company.

And there is many other people like him. And the fact that Scientology,in paying his wife “off” with a pittance could say, “I’ll just cross this line


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IFelzYrXLE






off, because no one will care.”

And it’s true. No one has cared.

When I first began to shop my book, they didn’t even open the cover.They heard the word “Scientology” and ran. An agent responded to me

on the phone and her voice was shaking, “They might even come after me. They might even come after me.” And on this second-year anniversary of Anonymous, which is a group of people that weren’teven Scientologists, they knew something was wrong. They knewthere was no free speech. When they started, I’m sure they didn’t knowhow deep the well went. But they were able to stand up.

So why can’t I? Why can’t I? And why can’t people care about GregBashaw? And his son, who had to witness his attempts of suicide...and his final suicide. And his wife who was left with the debt of moneythat he gave to the Church of Scientology. That’s all where that money

went, was to the Church of Scientology. And they didn’t... And they endup with him dead and she is struggling to keep her home.

So I hope you guys care. I hope you guys will talk about Greg Bashawand the many others that are out there, that go through this mentalabuse on a daily basis, on an international basis.

Because, as somebody here said, the international headquarters are inAmerica. If it’s happening in America, it’s happening in Australia, it’shappening in South Africa, it’s happening everywhere. If it’s happeningat the top, it’s happening below. And it doesn’t matter what country thatis.

European countries know more, because they’ve had to deal with theNazis. America is a little gun-shy about religions, because they werebased on freedom of religion. So if you want to play with a deadlysnake, you can, as part of your religious services. If that snake bitesyou, it’s God’s will. You don’t take the anti-venom, because if you die,that’s God’s will. And that is America. We are different with regards toreligion. And that is a known. That is very much known by theScientologists and very much used by them.

My book contains a lot more information than this, and I hope that youguys will get a chance to read it. I hope you guys will not leave herewithout looking deeper, and also without the fear.

Anonymous, I’ve told Anonymous, the people that wear the masks:keep those masks on. Drive in a different car. They take your driver’slicense down. They find out who you are. This is... This is a standardthing.

There is a standard thing in intelligence. The first thing they do is they




want your picture. That’s first. Open the file - put the picture in. Secondthing that they want is they want to know where you live. And theywant a picture of that home. And then they want to know where youwork. And then they want to delve even deeper into the friends in your life.

And if you guys, any of you guys, because you’re press and you’reliable to this sort of harassment. It’s not the people that will get close toyou that you have to worry about. It’s the people that get close to your spouse or a close friend. Because you will tell that close friend things,and this new person that you don’t even know about, these things areshared. And that’s how Scientology does their intelligence. It’s not rightup in your face. When it’s right up in your face, it’s because they want itthat way.

But their real intelligence and how they really gather what happens,happens sliding in under the door.

So, I hope you guys do care that Greg Bashaw died, after giving hislife, and money, and credit card limits to Scientology.

Thank you.

Mark Bunker : Thanks.

So, are there any other questions that you have, that you’d like to asknow?

Question : (Wording uncertain because difficult to hear)

I’d like to ask a question to Nancy.

Nancy Many : Yes.

Question : Nancy, can you talk to the term in Scientology called “end of cycle?” Do you believe that is an order? [inaudible] very controversialand [inaudible].

Nancy Many : “End of cycle” is something that came up with regards tothe death of Yvonne Jentsch. And it then became a rumor that L. RonHubbard or David Mayo gave her a program for end of cycle.

She was fatally dying, which in the regular world, we would put her inhospice and make her go as gently and quietly as she could, becausethere was no other option. End of cycle as a specific policy, I’ve never read. Only the rumors, probably the same rumors you have.




Q&A (pt.1)YouTube - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out: Q&A (pt.1) Nancy Many, Jeff Hawkins, Will Fry [14 of 17]

[Note: The following audio segment is difficult to hear and was omitted

from the YouTube video]

Audience comment : Just to all the panel here, and to you, Mark.There was a journalist from Freewinds magazine, a Scientologypublication, filming everyone coming in [inaudible]. Are you surprisedby that? What will it be used for?

[End of omitted audio segment[

Audience comment : [something regarding the Scientology spies whoposed as media for this conference, photographed everyone and then

left.]Mark Bunker : Not surprised at all. You won’t ...

Will Fry : Not at all, no, [inaudible].

Mark Bunker : Yeah, you... Unlike what you’re shooting, that won’t beseen in public. That... That’s used for intelligence gathering. They’llwant to take that back and show it to David Miscavige and theexecutives, and they’ll find out who was here and what they can do tohandle you.

Question : Have any of you dealt with that kind of material, taken atthis kind of event in the past? Do you have first-hand knowledge of that?

Nancy Many : First-hand knowledge of what?

Will Fry : Say it again, sir.

Question : [something about first-hand knowledge of films,photography being taken of people]

Will Fry : Oh, yeah. I’ve been in a mall... I’ve been in a mall and I’vehad a little kid come up to me with a cell phone and go “click!”

Audience comment : No, no, no, no...

Will Fry : I’ve had people come up

Question : While you were in Scientology... Step up to the mike,








please.

While you were in Scientology, any of you, did you handle thatmaterial?

Will Fry : I think, maybe ...

Nancy Many : I did.

Will Fry : Yeah, OSA.

Nancy Many : I did. It’s the way that they’re... When the FBI did theraids on Scientology, way back when it was the Guardian’s Office andthe Snow White program, one of the FBI people that went through their organization said that this rivals most countries’ intelligence networks.

It’s a need-to-know basis. I had one person that I communicated with.

That was it. I only knew that one person. And he would tell me he wastalking to one person higher.

And it was funny, years later, when we met the one person higher, andhe was, like, “You were that woman?” And I said, “Yeah, you were thatguy!” And that’s how closed it is.

I... When I was spying on a certain group or location, they had other spies there, spying on me and saying what I was doing. So you alwaysknew you were watched, even as a spy.

Mark Bunker : Let me... Let me add one thing, specifically to what youwere asking.

The closest thing I can think of is, a year or two ago on the BBC,Panorama did a half-hour episode called “Scientology and Me” andJohn Sweeney was the reporter on that show. And they had camerasfollowing him everywhere.

And at one point, here in LA, they pushed John Sweeney over theedge, and you probably have seen the clip of him shouting at their spokesperson in his face, just saying, “You weren’t there!” And he wasscreaming and there was spittle. And Scientology took all this footageand, the weekend before the BBC aired their Panorama program, theyleaked that clip of John Sweeney on to YouTube to... to kind of mutethe impact of the BBC’s show.

Unfortunately, what it did was -- unfortunately for Scientology -- it drewmore attention to the show and it made it the most watched programon the BBC that week. And...

But they had crews following him everywhere, from LA to... to Florida.




And they actually compiled a complete mini-documentary of their ownand Scientology released this “exposé” of BBC’s news practices. Theyburned about a hundred thousand copies onto DVDs and theyreleased that to every official that they could throughout the UK. Theysent it to every journalist, they sent it to every... every politician, andthey made sure that they tried to blunt the impact of that broadcast

before it aired. But it didn’t work.Any other questions? Yes.

[Note: The following audio segment is difficult to hear and was omittedfrom the YouTube video]

Inasmuch as celebrity is foundational of Scientology, perhaps maybeone of its greatest assets, as they, you know pursue celebrity. It alsoprobably what could be one of its greatest vulnerability. Two recentepisodes, I wonder if you could comment, or anybody, could comment

on. The first one was when Paul Haggis went public and told them thathe was leaving, and he expected retaliation. What status that is in?And the second one is, and I know nothing about it other than rumor,and that is the death of John Travolta’s son because of a want of adrug which Scientology frowns upon and how that may or may notaffect this position of the church.

[End of omitted audio segment]

Question : [something regarding the death of John Travolta’s son andwhether he died for want of a drug forbidden by Scientology.]

Mark Bunker : Right. Well, John Travolta has recently come out andsaid that he is still a very strong believer in Scientology. He attendedan event just a few weeks ago in the UK, and he made it clear thatScientology has allegedly helped him through this tragedy, and... andI’ll take him at his word there.

But I also understand that Travolta and the family was giving Jett somedrugs to handle it. But did he... did Jett get the proper care that heneeded all the way through? I don’t know and I don’t think any of usare really in a position to comment on.

Question : And Paul Haggis?

Mark Bunker : Paul Haggis: that was explosive. It was a major story,and I think we’ll see more of those. Celebrity defections are probablytheir biggest fear right now.

Paul Haggis, Oscar-winning writer-director, denounced Scientology inthe strongest terms, and did so on the Internet, through MartyRathbun’s blog. And Marty Rathbun was one of the top executives who




have left Scientology and has spoken out, and has caused all sorts of problems for David Miscavige, the current leader.

Also, it’s not as big a profile to those of us who... who aren’tScientologists, but in the world of Scientology, there was another hugeblow just a couple of weeks ago, when the star of their orientation film

publicly left. And this is an introductory film that all new recruits toScientology see. He is the face of Scientology.

And it’s a wonderfully hilarious 20-minute short film, if you ever have achance to see it. Right now, they’re re-shooting it, I’m sure. But he’slike actor [imitating Troy McClure] Troy McClure.

And he’s walking you through the org, going [imitating Troy McClure]“Now let’s go over to the library. I think you should have this book andthis book. You’ll want to buy this book and this book.”

And he’s the happiest, nicest guy you could possibly meet, until theend of the film, when the lights come down and the music becomesvery ominous. And he says [imitating Troy McClure], “Of course, youcould walk out that door right now and never mention Scientologyagain, but you might as well blow your brains out.”

And, I mean, its lunacy! And I remember the first time I saw it with aScientologist friend, the two of us in the screening room, I waslaughing hysterically by that point.

But everybody in Scientology knows this fellow, Larry Anderson. Andfor him to publicly depart was big news to Scientology as well. Andwhat made it even bigger news is when he asked for his money back,he set a tape recorder on the table and had this hour-long conversationwith Tommy Davis, the current PR person for Scientology, and their entire conversation was recorded. And that was given to the SaintPetersburg Times and was just published on the Net just a few weeksago. And that was explosive, because, clearly in the audio tape,Scientology is lying about their process of giving money back if you’reunhappy. And that’s an agreement they have with the IRS. They said,“If you ask for your money, and do it the proper way, we’ll give youyour money back. Well, here he is on tape doing it and they’re refusingto give him the money back.

So things like that are explosive.

Q&A (pt.2)YouTube - Ex-Scientologists Speak Out: Q&A (pt.2) Nancy Many, Jeff Hawkins, Will Fry [15 of 17]


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Mark Bunker : Yeah, Mark.

[Note: The following audio segment is difficult to hear and was omittedfrom the YouTube video]

Thank you. Thanks to the panelists for sharing their stories.

About Paul Haggis, one thing to note that’s very interesting is... is thatHaggis recently, on his own, raised 8 million dollars for Haiti relief,legitimate charity, which is- you know, this soon after blowing from anorganization that, by Hubbard’s rule, does not believe in charity withoutfair exchange. So, you know, I mean, I think that should be noted.

But at the same time a question to the panel, maybe Nancy couldanswer this. Whenever there’s a disaster from 9/11 to the Virginia Techmassacre to, you know, to what recently... the tragedy in Haiti. You seethe, you know, the face of Scientology is always the yellow shirt, via

volunteer ministers. Personally, I’ve witnessed them getting in the wayof legitimate rescue efforts in 9/11, at Ground Zero.

I’m wondering what is the policy, because, is it more towardsdissemination? I mean, I understand that they do the touch assists andthat sort of thing. But mostly, what I’ve seen when they’re around, thatis them calling in their statistics of how many “Way to Happiness”pamphlets they managed to distribute that day.

[End of omitted audio segment]

Question : [something regarding Scientology’s insincere motives for relief efforts and charity work.]

Nancy Many : Well, I agree with you. And in terms of my tenure in theexecutive strata of Scientology, I always was very upset that we never did any community service. To me, when you do community service,you don’t get it... you don’t do it to get press. You don’t do it to wear ayellow T-shirt so everyone knows you’re doing it. And that’s what theydo.

In addition, I read in the newspaper yesterday, or this morning -- it’sbeen a long morning already -- that there are some people from Haitiwho are actually doing things to help who said that, “Yes, the yellowshirts went around and they did the touch assists, but they gave nofood, no money, no clothing, no real help. But they were there withtheir yellow shirts, doing their touch assists.

And I do know John Travolta and I do know that he is a good person,and from the inside out. And he does not know about these variousthings that are happening. In fact, in the celebrity world, which includesthe millionaires -- the millionaires are very important, even though




you’ll never know their names -- when the Saint Petersburg Timesarticle was coming out, they were told, specifically, don’t read anynewspapers, don’t watch any TV, don’t go on the Internet, for the next5 days. We’ll tell you when you can. And they obediently do that.

And they are handled outside of the orgs. They are not handled within

these “Ideal Orgs” that are being built, because these “Ideal Orgs” areempty, and they don’t want the celebrities to know that, that their donations have gone for naught.So they make it sound like they’re special. They don’t want them to goin there, when that’s not why they don’t want them to go in there.

Question : I have a question for Jeff [Hawkins].

As you mentioned, Scientologists are stepping forward nowencouraged by the aid or being encouraged by the work of Anonymous. In your view, are you working in collaboration with

Anonymous to make this easier for others to step forward and further your cause and, if so, what are you... what’s being done so thatmembers who were afraid to speak out have the courage to beswayed?

Jeff Hawkins : Well, let me just be clear. I’m not working withAnonymous. I’m not, you know, a “member” of Anonymous. You know,I appreciate the work they’ve done to expose the church’s crimes and Iencourage anyone who has experienced similar crimes to come outand speak out. And a lot of people are, right now.

Question : Do you feel that they’ve ever gone too far with some of their efforts?

Jeff Hawkins : I really don’t want to comment on Anonymous. I’m notan expert on it, and I don’t know that much about it.

Question : One last question. Are you doing anything personally tomake this more accessible for others to speak forward, just fromhearing everyone’s story, it seems like a... very compelling as far aswhat you experienced, and the others. What’s being done so that thereis assistance or aid or support given to these individuals who don’thave any [inaudible], so that there is a support network, so that their voices can be heard?

Jeff Hawkins : I don’t know exactly how to address that. There are a lotof people who are former Sea Org and former staff and, you know, weare in touch with each other. And if somebody needs a hand, they doget a hand, basically. It’s a very informal kind of thing.

Audience comment : Thank you.




Jeff Hawkins : Okay, good.

Mark Bunker : Yes.

Question : With the celebrity disaffection and the work of Anonymous,is there any indication of how this is affecting the rank and file

Scientologists [inaudible]?Mark Bunker : We’re seeing more and more people leavingScientology. The rank and file really don’t have access to the media. Imean, the people in the Sea Org, they can’t go out to the Internet andsee these things. But it does kind of filter in.

For a couple of years, back in 2000 and 2001, I actually moved toClearwater, Florida and worked with a group called the LisaMcPherson Trust, which was started by my pal, Bob Minton, who justdied a few weeks ago. And at that point, we located our office right

next door to Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs. And we were there,you know, in case Scientologists needed to come to us for help. In thattime, you know, no one actually did, because cameras were on usconstantly.

The Scientologists who were working there in the buildings, theyweren’t even allowed to walk on the street anymore. They were shovedinto vans, and the vans were... had windows that were blacked out,because they were afraid that the message might come through. Andwe had some signs that said things like, “It’s safe to look,” or “It’s safeto talk.”

And years later, I have heard from people who were there at the time,who said, you know, “I saw that message and that stuck with me. AndI... and all those, you know, all that time, I was thinking, you know- whyis that we aren’t allowed to see that and they can talk freely toanyone?”

So... the... you know...

And I even heard from people who said that, “Yeah, we ... we ... Iremember being shoved into the building and we weren’t allowed to goout because one person was walking down the street with a sign. Andit did make me think, ‘Well, how come these are the most powerfulpeople on the planet, here inside Scientology and they’re afraid of oneperson with a sign?’“

So those messages do kind of seep through. But, for the most part,they’re not going to be seeing the videos that are going up on this now,or the news reports.

Will Fry : Real quick, I just wanted to add something real quick. Who




asked about the Haiti relief?

Audience comment : Step up to the mike.

I did.

Will Fry : Okay, I just wanted to go over something real quick, becausewhat I was involved with in the Sea Organization was sales,specifically for Bridge Publications Incorporated. I was the Sea Orgsales manager.

And what you have to know is that, when there is a tragedy, whenthere is a crisis, this gives a very excellent reason to ask its membersfor money. Right? So any... any, any relief effort going from the churchto Haiti or 9/11 or Columbine, which is... I left before 9/11, but...

Question : [something about hurricane Katrina.]

Will Fry : Yes. Columbine, Katrina, all of these issues. When thesetragedies happen, the salesmen get on the phone, they have aparishioners list this thick. Number, number, number, over and over and over again. And they raise as much money as possible. And yeah.And then they send in the photo opportunity, which is the folks in theyellow shirts, to go and show how the pamphlets are being distributed,you know.

Audience comment : That’s fraud.

Will Fry : That is fraud. I am guilty of fraud, as a sales manager for Bridge Publications Incorporated.

Mark Bunker : And will anybody do anything about it? No.

Will Fry : I am willing, just, you know, I haven’t been sued yet. I haven’tbeen... I haven’t received a court order yet, and I expect all this tohappen. I am fully willing to go to jail or wherever. This is, like, not evenan option. I mean, it’s not even a choice I have to make. I don’t careabout the threats.

All I want is that... I don’t want there to be any more kids suffer the waymy family suffered. I don’t want there to be any more uncle Bob’s.That’s it.

Audience comment : Thanks, Will.

Mark Bunker reads a letter Mandy Kember YouTube- Mark Bunker reads a letter Mandy Kember - Ex-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFQ4UmDGp4




Scientologists Speak Out [16 of 17]

Mark Bunker : But in closing, I do want to read these 2 letters thatwere written by mothers of children who are in the Sea Org now, andthey have disconnected from their families.

So, let me start with this letter dated February 2010. It’s a letter toMandy Kember. And it starts:

Dearest Mandy,

This letter is from my heart.

I was 17 years old when I gave birth to you and was very young tohave a baby. As you know, there is no training manual for parents. Ididn’t have a clue about being a mother. I had the opportunity tohave an abortion, but no way was I going to do that, as I wanted you.

You were born, and I know most mothers say this, but you were sobeautiful, perfect in every way, and I loved you. I used to wake up inthe mornings and see my lovely little girl. Remember your first day atschool.

Life was very hard and money was very short at that time, but Ialways put you first. I loved and protected you with all my heart.Up to the time you went to LA, I was always there for you. You were33 years old when you joined Chaz in LA.

Remember when Brook House burnt down and you lost everything?You were married to Chaz then. I looked after you and your husbandfor over 2 years. I made sure that you always had good food and mysupport when you were in the Sea Org.

As a mother I would know when things weren’t going well for you. Ihad a mother’s instinct and would get a gut feeling that thingsweren’t well. This I felt before I came over to see you in March of 09.

I traveled to LA on a gut feeling. I had never met any of the peoplethat were with me at that point, when we were outside of the HGBbuilding, and I did that because I felt you were not doing well. All Iwanted was to see and to hold you one more time before I left thisworld. I didn’t want anything else. Just to hold my daughter again.

I didn’t ask for any of this in Scientology, if you remember, after 15years of contribution to Scientology, I was made an illegal PC again,and you know that means no services, no bridge, so it was takenaway from me. This happened after I had just paid for OT4, so Iasked for my money back as Scientology couldn’t deliver theservices.






On my SP declare, it looks as though I received all the money back,but I didn’t. Just 5,000 pounds. When I got the payment, GraemeWilson came to my house and said, “We feel there’s been aninjustice. You paid for a service and you couldn’t have it.” Then as heleft my house, he said, “You realize you will now be declared.” But I

was an illegal PC, so what did that matter to me?Please try and find it in your heart to call me.

I love you, Mandy, and would love to hear your voice again andknow that you are OK.

Love,

Mum

Mark Bunker reads a letter to Kate OlsonYouTube- Mark Bunker reads a letter to Kate Olson - Ex-ScientologistsSpeak Out [17 of 17]

Mark Bunker : And this second letter, dated February 2010, is an openletter to Katherine Olson. And it starts:

My Dear Kate,

I would much rather be speaking to you in person, but that’s no

longer possible. Since September of 2008 our communication hasbeen severed. This is not my decision. I will never, ever disconnectfrom you, and I know deep in your heart that you still love me too.

You have been in the Sea Org for nearly 17 years. When I allowedyou, then a minor, to join the Sea Org, you signed the staff contractwhich states that “Holidays are three weeks per continuous activeyear for Sea Org Members.” And this has never happened. Instead,you were granted 3 days in Portland in 1996. Now, each time wespoke and in the letters you wrote me throughout the years, youstated the desire to come home for a visit. During the last visit we

had in March of 2008 at the J. Paul Getty Museum in LA, you toldme that you would come and visit soon.

Kate, remember the postcards you bought for me at the museumthat day? You wrote me notes on the back of them, that said:

“Dear Mom,

These postcards are to remind you of our day together, to remind


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC5m8Tjra0M






you that we will always be in communication, no matter thedistance, to remind you that you raised a happy, healthy,contributive person, to remind you that I will visit you, to remind youthat I love you!

All My Love, Katherine”

Now, I believe you were sincere, because as a child, you werealways honest with me.

The OSA handler, Beth, gave me her word that she would help youget the time-off request pushed through. Beth and I shook hands,and I told her that I was trusting her word and that I would hold her tothat promise. Beth said she would do everything that she could.

However, when I returned to Portland, some stipulations werepresented to me. Beth told me on the phone that I couldn’t associate

with “certain people.” In a phone conversation with you, you wantedme to give you the names of former Scientologists and critics I hadbeen in contact with, and the websites I had been visiting. Because Irefused to disclose this information, you were not granted a vacation.Instead, we were tricked, lied to, and now we are disconnected. Ican’t reach you by phone. I don’t even know if you receive myletters, cards, or gifts.

As I said in our last phone conversation, which was September 2008, “I will continue to scream from the mountain top. I will not besilenced. I love you. My heart and my door will always be open toyou.” I am still waiting for your arrival in Portland for the vacation thatwe have been promised.

With Love, Your Mother,Susan Lentsch

Mark Bunker : So, with that, I thank you for coming, and I thank you for your attention. I hope we get together again soon, because there aremore stories out there to be told and there are more people ready totell their stories. So, you folks in the media, keep digging, becausethere is plenty of stories to be shared.

Thank you so much.

Documents

Ex-Scientologists Speak Out - Conference Transcript