Eric Whitaker Transcript

8/10/2019 Eric Whitaker Transcript

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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

2 CENTRAL DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS

3 SPRINGFIELD DIVISION

4

5 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) )

6 Plaintiff, ) )

7 -vs- ) NO. 12-30098 )

8 LEON DINGLE, JR., )KARIN DINGLE )

9 ) Defendants. )

10

11 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

12 BEFORE THE HONORABLE RICHARD MILLS

13 U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE

14

15 December 8, 2014

16 A P P E A R A N C E S:

17 FOR PLAINTIFF: Mr. Timothy A. Bass Mr. Eric Long

18

19 FOR DEFENDANT LEON DINGLE: Mr. Edward Genson Ms. Blaire Dalton

20

21 FOR DEFENDANT KARIN DINGLE: Mr. Ronald J. Clark

22

23

24 COURT REPORTER: Ms. Dorothy J. Hart, CSR, RPR Illinois CSR No. 084-001390

25


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1 INDEX

2 WITNESS PAGE

3 Eric Whitaker

4 Direct Examination by Mr. Bass 17

5

6

7

8 EXHIBITS

9 EXHIBIT IDENTIFIED

10 Government Group Exhibit 1 32

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25


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1 THE COURT: Thank you, Madam Clerk.

2 Good afternoon, everyone.

3 All right. The record may show that

4 the jury is not in the courtroom, but we have two

5 tables full of counsel and all ready to proceed.

6 All right. Mr. Bass.

7 MR. BASS: Your Honor, we advised Your

8 Honor's clerk before you took the bench that there

9 was a development which we wished to advise the

10 Court of, and so if I may be permitted to relay

11 that to Your Honor.

12 THE COURT: Talk to me.

13 MR. BASS: Your Honor, as you recall,

14 the Government filed a motion in limine asking for

15 permission to use leading questions on direct

16 examination of a witness.

17 THE COURT: Indeed.

18 MR. BASS: And you allowed counsel for

19 the Defendants to respond, file a written response,

20 and I believe it was on last Wednesday afternoon is

21 when Your Honor entered an order granting the

22 motion in part but concluding that Your Honor

23 wished to hear testimony from that witness directly

24 as part of an offer of proof.

25 THE COURT: Correct.


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1 MR. BASS: That was last Wednesday. If

2 Your Honor further recalls that at the end of the

3 day on Wednesday we discussed tentatively when we

4 might have that offer of proof hearing and we

5 discussed that it might be Friday afternoon, but we

6 were going to table the issue and discuss it

7 further on Thursday morning.

8 My recollection is that we did discuss

9 it further on Thursday morning and concluded that

10 we would recess early on Friday, which we did,

11 allow for the continuation of the compilation of

12 the exhibits with Madam Clerk, not have court on

13 Monday, and conduct the hearing at 2:00 on Monday

14 afternoon. That's what we concluded on -- at the

15 -- I believe on Thursday. I believe Thursday

16 morning is when we -- is when we agreed that that's

17 what we would do.

18 Now, prior to that time, Your Honor,

19 prior to last Thursday, the situation with respect

20 to Dr. Whitaker was as represented in the

21 Government's motion. We had made repeated requests

22 to meet with him pursuant to the proffer agreement

23 that's now of record and those requests were

24 declined all the way up until just prior to trial

25 in which the request was expressly declined by


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1 counsel for Dr. Whitaker.

2 That situation remained unchanged up

3 until Friday afternoon. After we concluded --

4 after we decided on Thursday that we would recess

5 today and have this hearing today,I communicated

6 with counsel for Dr. Whitaker that -- as to the

7 scheduling, that the -- I'd tentatively indicated

8 to him that we might need Dr. Whitaker's testimony

9 on Friday. He responded that -- inquired whether

10 or not it would be possible to hold the hearing on

11 Monday because of his schedule and Dr. Whitaker's

12 schedule,and that inquiry eventually became moot

13 because we ultimately decided that we would have

14 the hearing today.

15 I spoke with counsel for Dr. Whitaker,

16 Mr. Hockeimer, on Thursday evening, I believe, and

17 I advised him that the hearing would be -- we were

18 able to accommodate his request and that we would

19 be having the hearing this afternoon. That was the

20 -- in substance,the nature of my conversation with

21 counsel for Dr. Whitaker as of the end of the day

22 on Thursday.

23 We held court Friday until 1 p.m. We

24 began at 10 and concluded at 1.

25 THE COURT: Recessed the jury.


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1 MR. BASS: Yes. And as of 1 p.m. when

2 we recessed, the situation was still the same as

3 far as Dr. Whitaker's continued refusal to meet

4 with the Government.

5 On Friday afternoon I received an

6 e-mail from counsel for Dr. Whitaker asking if I

7 would give him a call. I did so on the late

8 afternoon, early evening Friday. I believe it was

9 5 p.m. And I spoke with Mr. Hockeimer and it was

10 at that time that Mr. Hockeimer asked -- advised

11 the Government that Dr. Whitaker would be willing

12 to meet with the Government and would be willing to

13 do so on Monday morning, and he asked if we would

14 be agreeable to do that.

15 Now, that put the Government in a

16 situation of knowing that we had broke -- we had

17 broke for the day with Your Honor. This was at the

18 -- following the close of business leading to the

19 weekend. My response to Mr. Hockeimer was that we

20 would not deny Dr. Whitaker the opportunity to meet

21 with us if he requested. That's what we had been

22 asking for for some time. But because of the

23 circumstances under which that request was made,

24 given that the motion is still pending before Your

25 Honor, that Your Honor had ruled that you wished to


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1 hear from Dr. Whitaker directly, that we would have

2 an obligation, constitutional and statutory, to

3 disclose any statement of Dr. Whitaker to the

4 Government to counsel for the Defendants. And

5 given all of that, I advised Mr. Hockeimer that

6 although we would be willing -- we would be

7 agreeable to meeting with Dr. Whitaker, but the

8 only circumstances under which we could practically

9 comply with our constitutional and statutory

10 obligation was to record that meeting, both -- and

11 so that's what was advised to Mr. Hockeimer.

12 THE COURT: By video?

13 MR. BASS: Well, I advised him that it

14 would have to be -- the meeting would have to be

15 recorded.

16 I further was asked by Mr. Hockeimer if

17 the meeting with the Government this morning would

18 substitute for the need for this hearing and the

19 Government's continued position in its motion. And

20 my response was that I could not predict in advance

21 what impact a meeting that had not yet occurred

22 could have on our position in a hearing which also

23 had not yet occurred.

24 THE COURT: That sounds logical.

25 MR. BASS: But that we would give fair


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1 consideration after the conclusion of the meeting

2 as to whether or not this hearing needs to proceed.

3 So on -- Mr. Hockeimer advised me that

4 he would consult with his client and would confirm

5 whether or not such a meeting continued to be

6 requested over the weekend.

7 On Friday I spoke -- I called

8 Mr. Genson and I -- and Mr. Clark. I believe on

9 Friday I spoke with Mr. Genson. I know I spoke

10 with Mr. Clark -- he can correct me if I'm wrong,

11 but sometime over the -- either Friday or over the

12 weekend I spoke with Mr. Clark and advised both of

13 them of what I just advised Your Honor.

14 On Sunday,after having not heard from

15 Mr. Hockeimer, I e-mailed him and asked him --

16 recounted our conversation and the circumstances

17 under which the Government would be agreeable to

18 such a meeting, including the recording, and his

19 response to me yesterday afternoon was that they --

20 they being Mr. Hockeimer and Dr. Whitaker wished to

21 meet with the Government this morning and that we

22 would meet at 10:15 this morning. I then relayed

23 that to counsel for the Defendants.

24 I further delivered to Mr. Genson

25 courtesy copies of e-mails and documents that the


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1 Government might use in questioning Dr. Whitaker

2 yesterday evening and I also provided by e-mail to

3 Mr. Clark certain e-mails that related to Karin

4 Dingle and spoke with him directly and advised him

5 that I was doing so.

6 So that is the state of events as of

7 last evening.

8 This morning at 10:15 we did -- myself

9 and InspectorDemczak and other representatives of

10 the Government met with Mr. Hockeimer and Dr.

11 Whitaker at our office,and we conducted that

12 interview and it was recorded. It was recorded

13 both audio and video. It occurred over about an

14 hour and a half. We were limited in time because

15 of the fact that it occurred this morning and

16 because we knew that we would immediately have to

17 take steps to make copies of that recording so that

18 we could provide those -- file them of -- file it

19 of record with Your Honor and also provide copies

20 to counsel for the Defendants.

21 So that's where we are presently, Your

22 Honor. We do wish to -- I've advised Mr. -- all

23 parties that it's the Government's view that we

24 need to proceed with this hearing. Your Honor

25 ruled that he wished to hear from this witness


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1 directly before ruling. And what I would propose

2 that we do is that we publish -- proceed with

3 filing of record the recording,we publish that so

4 that Your Honor can hear from Dr. Whitaker and

5 counsel for both Defendants can review that

6 recording as well, and then at the end of that

7 publication Your Honor can decide whether or not he

8 wished to hear further testimony, live testimony

9 from Dr. Whitaker -- he's here and available -- or

10 whether counsel for the Defendants wish to ask any

11 questions.

12 So that is the state of the events and

13 what I would propose that we do, that we proceed

14 with this hearing and that our offer of proof,

15 rather than orally -- my orally recounting for you

16 what took place in the interview, that we publish

17 the interview,which is the statement of the

18 witness himself, which is what Your Honor wished to

19 observe, and then at the conclusion of that

20 publication Your Honor decide, counsel decide

21 whether they wish to have further live testimony at

22 that point. So that's the development, Your Honor,

23 and the state of the record and how we would

24 propose to proceed.

25 THE COURT: All right.


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1 MS. DALTON: Good afternoon, Your

2 Honor.

3 THE COURT: Ms. Dalton.

4 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, as of this

5 moment we still have not been able to review that

6 tape that was made of the recording of the

7 interview of Dr. Whitaker. We would ask for an

8 opportunity to be able to review that tape before

9 it is played -- before Your Honor even decides

10 whether it should be played in open court. We have

11 the right to have an opportunity to have some

12 notice of any witness's statement, recorded or not.

13 In addition, this isn't just a

14 witness's statement,as the Government has told

15 you. It is also the statements of both Mr. Bass

16 and Mr. Demczak and any other agent that was part

17 of that interview,and it is not just Dr.

18 Whitaker's statement.

19 Playing that recorded statement in open

20 court would not only be a prior inconsistent

21 statement of Dr. Whitaker,but it would also be

22 part of an ex parte communication that none of the

23 defense counsels were part of and has not been

24 subject to any cross-examination. We should have

25 the opportunity to not only review the tape prior


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1 to it being played but then to make any additional

2 objections of it being presented in open court.

3 Rather than have Your Honor make his own

4 independent decision based on how Dr. Whitaker

5 testifies in open court live testimony rather than

6 a statement that was made not under oath, that was

7 made in addition to other statements included

8 within the same video that would not just be Dr.

9 Whitaker's live testimony,it would include other

10 people's statements as well.

11 We have a right to have sufficient

12 notice. And we did receive notice that there was

13 going to be this meeting, but we do have the right

14 to review that video in total, and we haven't even

15 been able to review a minute of it. And apparently

16 it's about an hour and a half. And we'd ask for

17 the right to be able to review that video

18 independent of it being played in open court and

19 that being our first impression of what that tape

20 contains.

21 Other than that, Your Honor, we'd also

22 object to any publishing of the tape in the docket

23 for the same reasons. Thank you.

24 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Dalton.

25 All right, Mr. Bass -- here we go


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1 again. Mr. Clark?

2 MR. CLARK: No, I have nothing. I have

3 nothing to add to that,other than to say I haven't

4 seen it. But then we've had some technical issues

5 and things like that. I'm not blaming anyone for

6 us not seeing it,but there's been some technical

7 issues that they're trying to work out. But no, we

8 haven't seen it.

9 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

10 Mr. Bass.

11 MR. BASS: Your Honor, as Ms. Dalton

12 indicated, the recording is about an hour and a

13 half. The only statement on that recording is the

14 statement of Dr. Whitaker. The questions by myself

15 and by InspectorDemczak are not statements.

16 They're certainly not statements of any witness.

17 Now, despite what Ms. Dalton has said,

18 the Defendants have no right to review this

19 recording before we proceed with this hearing. As

20 I indicated, we -- we could proceed by way of an

21 offer of proof orally or I could submit a written

22 offer of proof,but Your Honor has indicated he

23 wished to review this witness directly. We could

24 proceed with calling Dr. Whitaker and presenting

25 the live testimony. And obviously, there's no way


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1 to know what the live testimony is until it's

2 presented.

3 Now, at the conclusion of Dr.

4 Whitaker's direct examination, then the Defendants

5 would have,under the Jencks Act,18 USC 3500, the

6 statement of the witness upon conclusion of direct

7 examination. Now, as Your Honor knows, the

8 Government does not strictly enforce that -- that

9 statutory provision, but that's the right of the

10 defendant. The right of the defendant is to have a

11 statement of the witness upon conclusion of the

12 direct examination of the witness.

13 All that we're proposing to do is,in

14 lieu of proceeding with the live testimony,present

15 the statement of the witness. And at the

16 conclusion of that statement of the witness,then

17 counsel can decide and Your Honor can decide if

18 either Your Honor or the Defendants wish to call

19 Dr. Whitaker -- the Government to call Dr.

20 Whitaker.

21 We,frankly,have some additional

22 questions we would like to ask Dr. Whitaker, but

23 given the limited -- limitations of time, we were

24 unable to do so. But that's secondary to whether

25 or not counsel for the Defendants or whether Your


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1 Honor wished to hear any additional live testimony.

2 What's not appropriate is to delay the

3 live testimony, delay the filing of the recording,

4 and to have no public -- not to proceed on this

5 public hearing. Your Honor has already ruled that

6 this hearing is part of a public trial and we're

7 going to proceed.

8 THE COURT: Sure.

9 MR. BASS: So all that the Government

10 is suggesting is that we proceed -- we proceed with

11 disclosing the statement of the witness before the

12 witness has testified on direct examination as the

13 method of presenting our offer of proof. That's

14 all we're proposing that we do.

15 MS. DALTON: If I may briefly respond,

16 Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Yes,one last bite.

18 MS. DALTON: Thank you.

19 Your Honor, in the last 30 or so years,

20 the courts have not been following the Jencks Act

21 as it's been written that after a witness -- that

22 only after a witness is finished testifying on

23 direct that only then would the defense counsel be

24 able to get any copies of any statements or reports

25 that involve that witness. Before we can make any


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1 foundational objections or anything in addition to

2 that, we have the right to review the video in and

3 of itself in its entirety before it's played in

4 front of this Court or before we can really make

5 any substantive objections of why it should not be

6 played in open court, which we would also have the

7 right to do. Your Honor, we simply just ask that

8 we have the opportunity to review it.

9 The fact that it happened this morning

10 and that the hearing was supposed to happen today

11 is of no cause. The live testimony -- even if this

12 recording had been produced at 2:00 -- which we

13 still do not have a copy. Even if it had, we would

14 still be objecting to proceeding with the live

15 testimony because we would have a right to review

16 the recording that was made just this morning, a

17 recording that was not made under oath, a recording

18 that would be just the same as introducing a police

19 report or an agent's report of a statement that was

20 made by Dr. Whitaker to agents.

21 For those reasons and the reasons I

22 previously made, we would object, Your Honor.

23 THE COURT: Well, this is the beginning

24 of the seventh week of this trial,and we have had

25 delays,and we have had thousands and thousands of


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1 pieces of paper and documents and exhibits,and

2 we're not even ready yet with all of the exhibits

3 or ready to proceed to the end of the trial. This

4 jury was told that it would only be about a two-or

5 three-week jury when we started and now we're in

6 the seventh week. So what's a mother to do? But

7 rights have to be preserved, but we don't operate

8 in a vacuum. And we're coming up on Christmas. We

9 didn't even think that we'd have the jury at

10 Thanksgiving and now it's going to be Christmas.

11 So we've got to move. We can't just sit here in

12 limbo and try new thoughts in criminal law and

13 procedure as to what to do and so forth and so on.

14 I think the only fair thing to do here

15 is that I am not going to look at the video and the

16 video isn't going to utilized. And Dr. Whitaker is

17 here,call him, put him on the stand,and let's

18 move. That simple. That's the ruling. Call him.

19 ERIC WHITAKER,

20 of lawful age, produced, sworn, and examined on

21 behalf of the Government, testifies and says:

22 THE COURT: Right up here, Doctor.

23 DIRECT EXAMINATION

24 QUESTIONS BY MR. BASS:

25 Q. Sir, could you tell us your name,


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1 please?

2 A. Eric Whitaker. Could I have one second

3 to --

4 Q. Please do.

5 A. Eric Whitaker.

6 Q. Mr. Whitaker, are you employed?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. How so?

9 A. I'm self-employed.

10 Q. As what?

11 A. As a consultant.

12 Q. Are you a medical doctor?

13 A. That I am.

14 Q. When did you graduate from medical

15 school?

16 A. 1993.

17 Q. And do you have any degrees besides a

18 medical degree?

19 A. I have a master's in public health and

20 a bachelor's of art in chemistry and I have half of

21 anMBA.

22 Q. You said that you're self-employed as a

23 consultant; is that right?

24 A. That's correct.

25 Q. Is that on your own or is that


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1 affiliated with some firm?

2 A. No. I have my own consulting firm.

3 Q. What is the name of that firm?

4 A. TWG Partners,LLC.

5 Q. Are you married?

6 A. I am.

7 Q. What is your wife's name?

8 A. Cheryl.

9 Q. And is Mrs. Whitaker also a medical

10 doctor?

11 A. She is.

12 Q. And is she employed?

13 A. She's the head of a company -- or,

14 actually,head of two companies,actually.

15 Q. What is -- what are the names of the

16 companies that Dr. Cheryl Whitaker is employed

17 with?

18 A. She is the CEO of Whitaker Kinne, which

19 is a boutique healthcare consulting group, and also

20 the chair and CEO of NextLevel Health Partners.

21 Q. The first firm,its name is Whitaker

22 Kinne; is that right?

23 A. Uh-huh.

24 Q. You have to answer out loud.

25 A. Yes. I'm sorry.


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1 Q. Does that firm have any contracts with

2 the State of Illinois?

3 A. You know, I'm not sure, to be honest.

4 I'm not sure. I know at one point they were

5 competing for a contract with the Department on

6 Aging. I don't know if they got it or not. And

7 also they were competing for a contract for the

8 1115 Waiver and that they didn't get. So I don't

9 know. They have clients -- healthcare clients in

10 Texas and Illinois, and, you know, I think they may

11 have about -- I want to say eight or nine clients.

12 But I don't follow that company very much.

13 Q. Okay. Were you involved with the

14 formation of that company or the management of that

15 company in any way?

16 A. Never.

17 Q. Or the promotion of that company?

18 A. When you say promotion, she's my wife,

19 so I -- you know, I certainly have met people who,

20 you know, if they have an interest or a need for

21 advising around Medicaid, I'll say, you know, my

22 wife has a company. Sure. If you'resaying

23 promotion, that would be what I would mean.

24 Q. When I say promotion, let me be more

25 specific. Were you involved at all with the


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1 promotion of Whitaker Kinne in relation to

2 soliciting clients or soliciting business?

3 A. You know, I'm -- I'm sure that -- you

4 know, the only client that I can really think of

5 that I may have directed to them was there was a

6 publicly traded company that wanted me on their

7 board,and they wanted to do some work in -- with

8 Medicaid in this state,and I referred them to my

9 wife. It's not a -- it's not a -- you know, a

10 public entity. It's a publicly traded company.

11 Q. Are you familiar with any of the

12 employees,past or present,at Whitaker Kinne?

13 A. Sure. The Kinne part of Whitaker Kinne

14 is a guy Michael Kinne who's a managed care

15 executive who came to the state. Her and he and

16 the other partner, Keith Wolski, are, you know,

17 managed care executives.

18 Joe West, who's the chief population

19 health manager of the company,is the one I worked

20 with when I was at Harvard for public health and he

21 has a Ph.D. in epidemiology.

22 Marian Adly is a person who worked with

23 Dr. Dingle and, you know, with a number of other

24 people I know like the Friend Family Health Center,

25 which was a couple of blocks away from the


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1 University of Chicago. You know, she worked asan

2 analyst at the firm.

3 Q. What about Quin Golden?

4 A. Quin Golden has never worked for

5 Whitaker Kinne.

6 Q. Ms. Golden has never been an employee

7 or consultant in any way?

8 A. Not of Whitaker Kinne, no.

9 Q. Has she been an employee or a

10 consultant at any time with -- for yourself or for

11 Dr. and Mrs. -- Dr. Cheryl Whitaker?

12 A. You know, it's a complicated question

13 in that the predecessor -- I wouldn't even say

14 predecessor. My wife was not involved in the

15 company. I,frankly,wasn't involved in the

16 company. There was a company called Kinne and

17 Associates that Michael Kinne started that was

18 seeking to develop a contract for Medicaid managed

19 care. I had no ownership. My wife had no

20 ownership. Quin Golden was a consultant to that

21 company.

22 Q. Did you or to your knowledge did your

23 wife have anything to do with the hiring of Quin

24 Golden by Mr. Kinne?

25 A. I introduced Quin Golden to Mr. Kinne.


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1 What he was trying to do was to create a network of

2 federally qualified health centers. And in our

3 work at the University of Chicago I led something

4 called the Urban Health Initiatives that created a

5 network of 30 federally qualified health centers.

6 I myself was not the person who dealt with those

7 executives -- the CEOs and executives on a

8 day-to-day basis. Quin Golden was. Mr. Kinne was

9 under pretty tight time constraints and needed

10 someone who knew all of the executive directors so

11 he could sign them up to be in his network, and

12 Quin Golden worked in that capacity.

13 Q. Doesn't -- does McKinney Whitaker --

14 Kinne Group, does it have a contract with the State

15 of Illinois relating to the Affordable Care Act?

16 A. It does not.

17 Q. Does it have a contract with a state

18 agency, health agency, Department of Health

19 Services or --

20 A. It does not.

21 Q. So you're not aware of any contract

22 that the Whitaker McKinney Group -- Kinne Group has

23 with the State of Illinois?

24 A. I don't think that Whitaker Kinne has

25 any contracts. I don't believe so. You know, I


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1 stated that a little earlier because I know they

2 competed for some but didn't get them.

3 Q. Dr. Whitaker, I'm not going to ask you

4 in detail about your educational and work history,

5 but would it be safe to say that it's extensive in

6 relation to -- you mentioned that you attended

7 Harvard; is that right?

8 A. I did.

9 Q. And you have a fairly extensive

10 professional background as a medical doctor

11 practicing in the Chicago area; is that right?

12 A. I think it's fair. I think some people

13 would like my background.

14 Q. And you've received a number of awards

15 and published a number of articles in the medical

16 field. Would that be true?

17 A. Yeah. I would say I probably should

18 have published more. I actually -- you know, I

19 call myself a failed academic because I like

20 actually doing things as opposed to writing about

21 doing things. You know, I've -- you know, in terms

22 of awards, you know, I probably have received three

23 dozen in my life or more. I've gotten tons of

24 awards.

25 Q. And in addition to your wife, Dr.


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1 Cheryl Whitaker, do you also have a brother?

2 A. I do.

3 Q. You have two brothers?

4 A. I have two brothers, yeah.

5 Q. And is one of them named Larry?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And where does Larry live?

8 A. He lives in Bartlett, Illinois.

9 Q. Is that near Chicago?

10 A. You know, it's too far for me, an hour

11 outside of the city.

12 Q. In the Chicago area; is that right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Does he or did he at one time have his

15 own printing company?

16 A. You know, I don't know -- he certainly

17 -- he's worked for 30 years for a large printer --

18 printing company. You know, I don't know the

19 ownership of it,but I believe his wife was a major

20 owner, but I'm not sure.

21 Q. Were you aware that at one time your

22 brother Larry had a printing company that he and/or

23 his wife owned?

24 A. Yeah. I don't know the ownership

25 structure, but yes.


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1 Q. Dr. Whitaker, I'm going to direct your

2 attention to the early part of 2003. At that time

3 did you become -- were you appointed the director

4 of the Illinois Department of Public Health?

5 A. I believe my first day was on April

6 Fool's Day 2003.

7 THE COURT: What year?

8 Q. Was that of 2003?

9 A. That was 2003, yes.

10 THE COURT: Thank you.

11 Q. And who appointed you? Was it Governor

12 Blagojevich that appointed you to that position?

13 A. Yes, it was a gubernatorial

14 appointment.

15 Q. Did you -- as part of receiving that

16 appointment, did you -- were you introduced to

17 various officials within the Blagojevich

18 administration?

19 A. I'm sure I wasinterviewed. I was

20 contacted by -- you know, I don't know what

21 Louanner Peters' role was at the time,but I was

22 contacted by her,and through -- I guess through --

23 after some initial screeningended up interviewing

24 with, you know, a state senator and a couple of

25 governor's office folks,in addition to, you know,


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1 I think some outside people who helped get the

2 governor elected,and the governor himself.

3 Q. And among -- did those -- in addition

4 to Ms. Peters -- Ms. Peters was the deputy governor

5 for Governor Blagojevich; is that right?

6 A. You know, I think that was her ending

7 title. That's why I said I'm not sure. She --

8 before that, she was -- had a cluster of social --

9 health and human services agencies, and at the end

10 of the administration she became deputy governor.

11 Q. And did you -- were you introduced to

12 Tony Rezko?

13 A. You know, I think very early on. The

14 doctor at Cook County Hospital,which is where I

15 was employed at the time,who ran the county health

16 system, and, you know, Dr. Bob Simon, and I think

17 he became -- I can't remember if he was just over

18 emergency services at the time or the CEO of the

19 whole health -- no, he wasn'tCEO of the whole

20 health system because Ruth Rothstein was there at

21 the time.

22 Q. Did you meet Mr. Rezko?

23 A. I did.

24 Q. Was he part of the administration?

25 A. He was not to my knowledge. I don't


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1 think he was.

2 Q. Was he associated with Governor

3 Blagojevich?

4 A. He helped him get elected.

5 MR. GENSON: Your Honor, I -- I'm

6 sorry. I'm sorry. This is not my witness. I take

7 it back. I take it back. I'm sorry.

8 THE COURT: Did you get carried away,

9 Mr. Genson? Did you get carried away there for a

10 moment?

11 MR. GENSON: I got carried away, Judge.

12 THE WITNESS: Should there be an

13 objection here?

14 THE COURT: Wait just a moment. Wait

15 just a minute. Who's running this show?

16 MadamReporter, read back the question.

17 (The reporter read the last

18 question and answer.)

19 THE COURT: Okay. Now there we. Start

20 again.

21 Q. Did you meet Victor Roberson?

22 A. Sure.

23 Q. And was he also a part of the

24 administration?

25 A. He worked in the governor's office.


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1 Q. Did you meet Milan Petrovic?

2 A. I did.

3 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, at this point

4 I'm going to have to object. The purpose of this

5 hearing is to determine whether or not Dr. Whitaker

6 is hostile to the Government as it relates to Dr.

7 Dingle's case or whether he's aligned specifically

8 with Dr. Dingle. Going into all these different

9 names of people that were associated with the

10 Blagojevich administration and whether or not he

11 knew them I think is irrelevant.

12 THE COURT: Well now, Ms. Dalton, this

13 is the Government's witness at this moment and

14 we're in a hearing. We don't have the jury in the

15 box. They will be at some juncture, which means

16 tomorrow morning they will be there. And whether

17 or not Dr. Whitaker is going to be testifying

18 before the jury, that's what we've got to decide

19 here. So let's just let Mr. Bass go ahead and make

20 his record, and then we'll see where we stand.

21 Okay. Go.

22 MR. BASS: Thank you, Your Honor.

23 Q. Just to be clear, Mr. Petrovic was also

24 part of the administration; is that right?

25 A. I didn't consider him part of the


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1 administration. He was an outside party who helped

2 the governor get elected. So if you're saying --

3 he had no formal role.

4 Q. But was he -- was your understanding

5 that he was a lobbyist or a fundraiser for the

6 governor?

7 A. Yeah, I knew he was a fundraiser, but I

8 didn't see him as part of the administration

9 itself.

10 Q. Now, at the time that you were

11 appointed,was your wife, Dr. Cheryl Whitaker, was

12 she employed at Rush University or Rush Medical

13 School?

14 A. I believe that to be correct, yeah.

15 Q. And did you know the president of that

16 school at the time, Henry Black?

17 A. Henry was not the president. The head

18 of it was actually Larry Goodman -- Dr. Larry

19 Goodman. Henry Black was the chair of the

20 department of preventive medicine.

21 Q. At Rush; is that right?

22 A. At Rush, that's correct.

23 Q. Now, prior to that your appointment as

24 director in April of 2003, did you know Leon

25 Dingle?


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1 A. You know, I can't say. You know, I

2 certainly had been in the same rooms with him. You

3 know, I know that I did a lecture on African-

4 American men's health at Rush for preventive

5 medicine grand rounds, and I believe Dr. Dingle was

6 there. So I certainly knew of him and, you know,

7 so -- and he -- you know, that was the department

8 where I think he was either an adjunct professor or

9 so. But I wasn't sure of his exact role.

10 Q. And just so the record's clear, the

11 person we're -- you know -- you know Dr. Dingle; is

12 that right?

13 A. Sure.

14 Q. And he's seated here to my left; is

15 that right?

16 A. That's Dr. Dingle.

17 Q. Did Dr. Dingle -- was he involved at

18 all to your knowledge in your appointment as

19 director of Public Health?

20 A. Not to my knowledge.

21 Q. Did you have any discussions with Dr.

22 Black in connection with Dr. Dingle?

23 A. I can't recall that. You know, it was

24 a pretty compressed time, you know, to try and

25 figure out if it's something that -- that, you know


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1 -- you know, if I knew people. You have to

2 remember I was just a doctor at Cook County

3 Hospital,not politically involved really. So, you

4 know, I didn't know the ways of politics.

5 Q. Did you -- do you recall whether or not

6 you met with Dr. Black and Dr. Dingle within days

7 of becoming director?

8 A. I don't recall.

9 Q. Let me show you some documents. Maybe

10 they'll assist your recollection.

11 MR. BASS: Your Honor, these are all

12 part of for purposes of this hearing what I'll

13 refer to as Government Group Exhibit 1.


15 MS. DALTON: Can I see them? Are they

16 already introduced into evidence?

17 MR. BASS: This is not a -- this is an

18 offer of proof.

19 Q. This is part of Government Exhibit --

20 Group Exhibit 1, and if you can't read, Dr.

21 Whitaker, let me know and I'll highlight it for

22 you. But do you see that this is an e-mail from

23 yourself to Dr. Black? I believe it's in February

24 of 2003. Do you see that?

25 A. I do.


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1 Q. And was this an e-mail from yourself to

2 Dr. Black indicating to him that you were a

3 candidate for the directorship at Public Health?

4 A. Certainly looks like it.

5 MS. DALTON: Your Honor,for any

6 exhibit that's placed up on the screen I'd like to

7 know the Bates number of the page just for the

8 record,as well as whether or not this is going to

9 be introduced into evidence for the purposes of

10 this hearing or if it's just going to be shown.

11 There should be some foundation.

12 THE COURT: It is only going to be

13 accepted by the Court for the purpose of this

14 hearing, period. Now, let's get that understood.

15 Now, when Dr. Whitaker is called to the

16 stand before the jury, when the jury is in the box,

17 at that time, Ms. Dalton, you may have copies of

18 everything well in advance.

19 MS. DALTON: I'd still ask for the

20 record, Your Honor, just that the Bates number

21 be --



24 MR. BASS: Your Honor, these documents

25 were provided to counsel yesterday evening. The


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1 only thing I'm showing are copies of what were

2 provided to them. And I will file of record at the

3 conclusion of my examination all of these documents

4 which are Government Group Exhibit 1.

5 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.

6 MS. DALTON: I mean,Your Honor, we

7 would object to filing of these but --

8 THE COURT: Okay. Your objection is

9 noted of record. Thank you.

10 Go.

11 Q. And do you see that this is Dr. Black's

12 response to you? Do you see that?

13 A. I do.

14 Q. And do you recall whether or not at

15 that time Dr. Dingle was introduced to you or

16 referred to you by Dr. Black as a person of

17 influence?

18 A. This was eleven years ago and I don't

19 even have this e-mail address anymore. I don't

20 recollect this at all.

21 Q. You have no recollection?

22 A. I have no recollection of this.

23 Q. Do you recall that you forwarded that

24 e-mail -- it appears that you would have forwarded

25 that e-mail to yourself later in August after you


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1 became director? Do you recall that?

2 A. Nope.

3 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, again, just if

4 we can have the Bates number. If I'm going to be

5 able to cross-examine Dr. Whitaker on these

6 documents, I'd at least like to know which one

7 we're talking about each time.

8 THE COURT: Now, wait just a minute,

9 Ms. Dalton. What do you mean when you get to

10 cross-examine?

11 MS. DALTON: If I get to ask questions

12 of Dr. Whitaker, I'd at least like to know what the

13 Bates number of the documents that are being used

14 are.

15 THE COURT: No, no. It doesn't work

16 that way. Mr. Bass is going to direct all of the

17 questions to him and I'm going to be determining

18 whether or not he is a hostile witness.

19 MS. DALTON: I understand that, Your

20 Honor. But if in the future when the jury is

21 back --

22 THE COURT: Oh, well, that would be a

23 different --

24 MS. DALTON: -- then I would just like

25 to know what Bates number.


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1 THE COURT: That's a different time,

2 different place.

3 MR. BASS: I'm happy to refer to that,

4 Your Honor.

5 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.

6 MR. BASS: It's a Whitaker e-mail

7 19599.


9 Q. You said you became director on April

10 Fool's Day is that right?

11 A. That's when I started.

12 Q. Did you begin meeting with Dr. Dingle

13 regularly upon your appointment?

14 A. I actually don't recall. You know, let

15 me give you context for when I started. I was told

16 to show up down in Springfield on April 1st. I had

17 two budget hearings the same day. We had a

18 bioterrorism exercise within a week or two after

19 that where it was a federally mandated bioterrorism

20 exercise that engaged every health department in

21 the State of Illinois. I mean,literally when I --

22 I went back to Cook County Hospital a month after I

23 had left it and I could barely remember having been

24 there because things were happening so fast.

25 I do not recollect talking to Dr.


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1 Dingle. It was that, you know, that rapid where it

2 was just a whirlwind that I don't recall really a

3 lot of what happened those early days.

4 Q. Well, this is three days after you

5 became director; is that right? This is April 4th?

6 A. The date looks correct, yeah.

7 Q. And this is page 1202.

8 A. Yeah.

9 Q. And then in the days that follow, page

10 1668, there was a meeting on 4/11 of '03 between

11 yourself and Dr. Black at Rush and Dr. Dingle?

12 This is 4/8 -- the meeting was 4/18 of '03. There

13 is another meeting with Dr. Dingle later that

14 afternoon and Dr. Hickombottom. Do you see that?

15 This is page 1671. Do you see that?

16 A. True.

17 Q. Do you know Ronald Hickombottom?

18 A. I've met him. He's a colleague of Dr.

19 Dingle.

20 Q. Do you recall meeting with him and Dr.

21 Dingle shortly after you were appointed director?

22 A. I have no recollection of that.

23 Q. You have no recollection of what you

24 discussed with him during your meetings with him?

25 A. I certainly have no recollection.


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1 Q. This is 4/17/03. This is an e-mail

2 from -- to yourself from -- is it Marge -- Marjorie

3 Johnson?

4 A. Yeah, I'm not sure. That was an

5 assistant of my predecessor.

6 Q. She was an employee at the department?


8 Q. And you recall that this was an e-mail

9 she responded to you -- this is page 8197 -- in

10 which you advised Ms. Johnson that you were closing

11 on your house and you asked if she could call Dr.

12 Dingle to see if he could meet an hour later,and

13 she responds to you indicating that Dr. Dingle said

14 it was fine and that he will be coming with Dr.

15 Black at 10 a.m.. Do you see that?

16 A. I do.

17 Q. And do you see that he also indicated

18 -- he being Dr. Dingle -- needs to meet -- needed

19 to meet with you at 3:30 that same afternoon about

20 other things about which he would not bring up at

21 the meeting with Dr. Black? Do you see that?

22 A. I do.

23 Q. Do you recall that meeting with Dr.

24 Dingle, with or without Dr. Black?

25 A. I don't. I do not.


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1 Q. Now, at the time that you became

2 director of Public Health were you, as with any

3 state employee, subject to standards of conduct and

4 ethical requirements that you were to adhere to?

5 A. Sure.

6 Q. And did those include prohibitions on

7 conducting political activity while on state time

8 with state resources?

9 A. That would beone.

10 Q. Is that right?

11 A. I said that would be one.

12 Q. And did those ethical restrictions or

13 ethical guidelines include a prohibition on

14 receiving any gifts, money, cash, or other things

15 of value,from people who were attempting to do

16 business with the state or who were doing business

17 with the state?

18 A. Sure.

19 Q. Was that among the prohibitions or the

20 standards of conduct that you were to adhere to?

21 A. That was my understanding, yes.

22 Q. And was that applicable to not only

23 yourself but to all of the employees at the

24 Department of Public Health?

25 A. Yes.


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1 Q. Did you agree with those standards of

2 conduct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And did you comply with them during

5 your tenure as director?

6 A. To the best of my knowledge,I did.

7 Q. Did you conduct political activity

8 while you were director of Public Health while on

9 state time with state resources?

10 A. I don't believe I did, but I tried to

11 separate the two. I maintained a separate phone

12 for phone calls and would go outside to take calls

13 if there were any such calls.

14 One of the things that I was happy

15 about was the fact that,as in past years, you

16 know, agency directors didn't have to raise money

17 and the like. So, you know, that was a good thing.

18 And were contributing money also.

19 Q. Do you recall whether or not you would

20 forward e-mails or have discussions with candidates

21 for office about fundraising?

22 A. I'm sure you'll show me. I don't

23 recall it.

24 Q. I'm just asking if you recall whether

25 or not you did that?


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1 A. I don't recall.

2 Q. Was one of the standards of conduct a

3 prohibition that you would not receive any food or

4 -- from an individual of more than $75 per day?

5 A. You know,I thought it was a hundred

6 dollars. I knew there was a prohibition,but I

7 thought it was more generous than that.

8 Q. So let me just ask you, Dr. Whitaker,

9 did you -- during the time that you were the

10 director of the Department of Public Health, did

11 you ever receive anything of value, any cash, any

12 other forms of money, a check, or any other thing

13 of value from Dr. Dingle?

14 A. To me personally?

15 Q. Yes.

16 A. Not to my knowledge, no.

17 Q. Did he ever pay for anything? When I

18 say provide you anything of value, that would

19 include any -- did he ever pay for anything on your

20 behalf?

21 A. You know, again, I'm at a disadvantage

22 because I don't have the records that you have.

23 But until I read in the paper about, you know, some

24 things -- you know, like the award from Rainbow

25 PUSH. I had no idea who actually paid for the


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1 award I received from that organization. So that

2 was news to me. And you started out saying I had a

3 lot of awards. I've never known who's paid for the

4 actual award that I received.

5 Q. I understand that.

6 A. Yeah.

7 Q. But as you just indicated, you have

8 followed this trial to some degree by reading the

9 paper; is that right?

10 A. That's all I have, yes.

11 Q. Are you aware of some of the evidence

12 that's been presented during this trial, including

13 the award that you just mentioned?

14 A. I read about that in the paper, yes.

15 Q. Did you accompany Dr. Dingle on a trip

16 to Las Vegas?

17 A. I did.

18 Q. And was that for a bird flu summit?

19 A. Yes. We were invited to an

20 international bird flu summit to talk about the

21 innovations our state had related to using and

22 engaging the faith-based community in bioterrorism

23 prevention and emergency preparedness.

24 Q. And did the people that accompanied you

25 include Dr. Dingle?


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1 A. You know, it was -- he may have

2 actually organized the trip, to be honest, you

3 know, because the work was from the Broadcast

4 Ministers Alliance. You know, again, to the best

5 of my recollection,there were probably, you know,

6 maybe ten folks, some IDPH.

7 Q. Was Dr. Dingle there?

8 A. Yes, yes.

9 Q. And was Ms. Golden there?

10 A. She was.

11 Q. And was Dr. Hickombottom there?

12 A. I believe he was.

13 Q. And an another employee -- was another

14 employee that you hired Roxanne Jackson?

15 A. You know, actually,I'm not sure about

16 Roxanne. But if -- you know, that was at the end

17 of my tenure,and Roxanne would have been working

18 for Dr. Dingle,not for me. You know, she --

19 Roxanne had left the department two or three years

20 before.

21 Q. But you had hired her -- you and Ms.

22 Golden had hired her years before as the director

23 of human resources--

24 A. Sure.

25 Q. -- at Public Health; is that right?


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1 A. Sure. I was just correcting that she

2 didn't work for IDPH at the time.

3 Q. And this trip occurred in September of

4 2007?

5 A. I thought it was in October, but it --

6 you know, I was wrapping up my tenure at the

7 agency.

8 Q. Fall of 2007?

9 A. Yeah,when I was leaving. I think it

10 was October, yeah.

11 Q. But you were still the director at that

12 time; is that right?


14 Q. And do you recall whether or not

15 Ms. Jackson was -- accompanied -- was part of the

16 group that went to Las Vegas?

17 A. I believe so.

18 Q. What about Ms. Adly?

19 A. I believe she was also.

20 Q. Do you recall attending a dinner and

21 concert at the Flamingo restaurant -- Flamingo

22 Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas?

23 A. I didn't know where it was. I know

24 there was a combined dinner and a show that all of

25 the folks who came and were a part of the


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1 delegation that Dr. Dingle led went to gather for

2 dinner.

3 Q. And do you recall the concert that you

4 attended?

5 A. It was I believe Toni Braxton.

6 Q. And did -- was there a dinner

7 beforehand?

8 A. I thought it was all wrapped together

9 in the same venue, but yes.

10 Q. Who paid for the dinner and your -- who

11 paid for your dinner and your ticket to the

12 concert?

13 A. Dr. Dingle did.

14 Q. And are you aware of how much the cost

15 for your dinner and ticket was?

16 A. I thought it was about a hundred

17 dollars.

18 Q. Are you aware that the ticket itself

19 cost more than a hundred dollars?

20 A. I was not, no.

21 Q. Do you recall --

22 A. You know, the thing I will say, my

23 practice was to write -- if we got dinner out, you

24 know, in terms of with different individuals, we

25 would send a letter to the ethics officer for the


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1 differently than other objects. So I may be

2 incorrect. But my understanding was that food was

3 treated differently.

4 Q. Mr. Whitaker, at the time that you were

5 the director of the Department of Public Health

6 were you experiencing any financial difficulties at

7 that time, you or your wife? And by financial

8 difficulties I mean did you have any tax

9 deficiencies or tax liens that were issued against

10 you by the Internal Revenue Service?

11 A. You know, frankly, I don't know. The

12 thing I will say about that time is, you know,

13 given the speed of both of our lives, you know, I,

14 frankly,didn't do a good job of keeping up with my

15 own, you know, home life and also the financial,

16 you know, keeping up with my bills and that sort of

17 thing.

18 Q. This is also part of Exhibit 1. This

19 is an e-mail from Dr. Cheryl Whitaker to yourself

20 on October 26th of 2005, page 113383. Do you see

21 in this e-mail where Ms. -- Dr. Cheryl Whitaker

22 advised you about an inquiry about IRS tax returns

23 and possibility of garnishing your accounts and no

24 reserve to pay for your mortgage or tuition or

25 other bills? Do you see that?


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1 A. I see it. But my wife is prone to

2 dramatics. So I don't know, you know, did we in

3 fact, you know, have -- have a problem, you know.

4 I don't recall, you know. The issue for my family

5 was sitting down and doing our bills and keeping up

6 with things.

7 Q. So you don't recall whether or not you

8 had any financial difficulties during the time?

9 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, at this point

10 again I'm going to have to object. This matter is

11 in relation to Dr. Dingle's case. At this point it

12 appears as if the Government is trying to elicit

13 questions and testimony from Dr. Whitaker on

14 something that is not only personal but completely

15 unrelated to any connection one way or the other

16 that he may or may not have had with Dr. Dingle

17 while he was the director of the Department of

18 Public Health. And I would object.

19 MR. BASS: May I respond to that?

20 THE COURT: Of course.

21 MR. BASS: There's been continued

22 objections about our simply asking this witness

23 questions. The basis for asking this witness

24 questions is whether or not he was aligned with and

25 is aligned with Dr. Dingle, received many benefits


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1 from him during this time period,and whether or

2 not he was experiencing financial difficulties and,

3 therefore,had a motive to receive benefits from a

4 person, Dr. Dingle, doing business with the state.

5 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, if the

6 Government wanted to charge Dr. Whitaker with

7 something, they are more than welcome to do so.

8 But this is not the place or the venue for -- Dr.

9 Dingle's trial for them to start getting testimony

10 from Dr. Whitaker about something that is

11 unrelated,like a personal financial problem or a

12 motive to accept gifts from Dr. Dingle. This is

13 completely inappropriate. It is beyond the scope

14 of what this hearing is supposed to be about.

15 THE COURT: Well, Ms. Dalton, I think

16 you're wrong. And we are not before the jury.

17 This is a hearing only for the purpose of one

18 determination,and that's for me to make,and

19 that's whether or not he is a hostile witness to

20 the Government. That's the whole purpose of this.

21 So we're not talking about what is going before the

22 jury or what is not going before the jury. If he

23 is determined as a witness and he takes the stand

24 before that jury, once the Government decides

25 whether to do that, then we'll decide and talk


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1 about these things. But they don't have a thing to

2 do with this hearing, nothing.

3 Now, go ahead. Overruled.

4 Q. Dr. Whitaker, in addition to Ms. Golden

5 and Ms. Jackson -- I apologize if I asked this

6 before, but was another employee of the Department

7 of Public Health Rory Slater?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. And did you hire him?

10 A. I did.

11 Q. And was he your executive or

12 administrative assistant?

13 A. He was my special assistant is the

14 title.

15 Q. Were there any -- were there any other

16 people that you worked closer with at the

17 department other than Ms. Golden and Mr. Slater?

18 A. Probably David Carvalho, who was the

19 head of health policy and -- and I think it was

20 assessment or something like that, and as well as

21 the general counsel, Ann Murphy.

22 Q. Now, you're aware, Dr. Whitaker,

23 obviously, that we -- you agreed to meet with the

24 Government earlier this morning; is that right?



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1 Q. And you also were issued a subpoena to

2 testify before the grand jury back in the fall of

3 2012 prior to the return of the indictment against

4 Dr. Dingle; is that right?


6 Q. And the questions that I'm asking you

7 now, are they similar to or the same to the

8 questions that were asked of you initially in

9 December of 2012 and then again this morning?

10 A. Some of this is new, but -- but, you

11 know, it is what it is.

12 Q. And after you -- you're also aware of

13 an affidavit that was provided solely to counsel

14 for Dr. Dingle in this matter; are you not?

15 A. Yes, uh-huh.

16 Q. And it was -- it's an affidavit of your

17 counsel that was filed under the case caption of

18 this case; is that right?


20 Q. And in that affidavit it asserts that

21 Dr. Whitaker has no personal or business

22 relationship with Leon Dingle; is that right?

23 A. That's -- I believe that's correct. I

24 think you showed it to me this morning.

25 Q. Do you have a personal or business or


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1 any other type of relationship with Dr. Dingle?

2 A. You know, I don't think I've talked to

3 Dr. Dingle in two or three years or so. You know,

4 it's been a long time,let's just say,since I

5 talked to Dr. Dingle. So I'm not -- this is the

6 first time I've seen him in a long time.

7 Q. When's the last time that you talked to

8 him?

9 A. You know, I -- well, I don't know. It

10 was sometime around the time he got indicted, but

11 I'm not sure the exact date or time of that.

12 Q. And did -- did you call him or did he

13 call you?

14 A. No, I -- I called him just to see how

15 he was doing.

16 Q. And was anyone with you when that

17 occurred?

18 A. Quin Golden was.

19 Q. Was that -- where were you when that

20 conversation occurred?

21 A. We were in a car on a speakerphone.

22 I'm not sure where we were.

23 Q. What was the purpose of your phone

24 call?

25 A. Well, it's been my experience that


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1 people like myself who end up in the paper that

2 there's a great deal of silence around them. And

3 I've made it a practice to -- if I know them, I

4 call people and just, you know, give them a good

5 word. Not knowing,you know, if they're -- you

6 know, have problems or not, I just like to be

7 supportive of people in that situation because I've

8 been in that situation myself.

9 Q. So during the time that you were the

10 director of Public Health did you have a personal,

11 business,or other relationship with Dr. Dingle?

12 A. I mean,certainly Dr. Dingle was

13 around, you know, particularly as it relates to the

14 faith-based grants. Quin Golden was the acting

15 deputy director in addition to being my chief of

16 staff. She had an office in my suite. And I had a

17 joint conference room and they often met to work on

18 the grants,you know, on a weekly basis. So me

19 going in my office,I would normally come across

20 seeing Dr. Dingle in our offices and I'm sure I've

21 met him a couple times during that time.

22 Also, you know -- you know, out at

23 events that he -- he hosted. You know, I attended

24 those. I could say that I've seen Dr. Dingle in a

25 lot of different settings. He's never eaten in my


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1 house, though, and I've never eaten in his.

2 Q. You said you might have met with him a

3 couple of times. Was it a lot more than a couple

4 of times?

5 A. I don't know. I'm really -- you know,

6 it's eleven years ago or seven years ago. I don't

7 know. But I'm sure you'll tell me.

8 Q. I'm just asking if you have a

9 recollection of whether --

10 A. I don't have a recollection of how many

11 times I've met Dr. Dingle.

12 Q. Did you have a close relationship with

13 Dr. Dingle?

14 A. How do you define close?

15 Q. That you met with him regularly, that

16 he met with you regularly, that he called you on a

17 first-name basis, that you met with him inside the

18 office and outside the office. That's what I mean

19 by close. Did that occur?

20 A. Well, you know, the African-American

21 community in Chicago is small. We tend to go to

22 certain places as groups. I certainly saw him in

23 our office many times. You know, if -- I don't

24 know if some of those would be called meetings,

25 but, you know, he certainly was around.


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1 Q. Did he provide you -- well, I'll just

2 show you a couple examples. This is page 14323.

3 This is in June of 2003. Do you see that,again an

4 e-mail to yourself from Ms. Johnson?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And there are other e-mails in June of

7 '03, August of '04. Tell me if I'm going too fast.

8 A. Back up, please. I didn't see the

9 first one that you put down. Yeah, I mean,Dr.

10 Dingle was the convener for the healthcare panel of

11 Operation PUSH,and as I recall,he had a post --

12 post-panel dinner with not just me but -- you know,

13 one of the things I hated about how Dr. Dingle

14 scheduled things was he would have seven, eight

15 people on a panel, so that I barely got air time.

16 And so there was a group of people who went out

17 with him post the panel at the conference.

18 Q. I understand that there might have been

19 a variety of contexts --

20 A. Yeah.

21 Q. -- that you would have had meetings

22 with Dr. Dingle,and I'll give you plenty of

23 opportunity to explain that. I'm just asking you

24 now if you recall whether or not you met regularly

25 with Dr. Dingle?


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1 A. But the context matters; doesn't it? I

2 mean --

3 Q. Do you recall whether you did that?

4 A. I've met with him a number of times.

5 Sure.

6 Q. This is August of -- September of '04,

7 also September of '04, more September of '04. Did

8 you know Jacquelyn Kilpatrick at Dr. Dingle's

9 office?

10 A. You know, I know who she is. I can't

11 recall meeting her, but I certainly know who she

12 is.

13 Q. April of '05 a meeting at the East Bank

14 Club. What was that?

15 A. I've probably been to the East Bank

16 Club 40 times this year. I don't know what that

17 is.

18 Q. This is April of '05, August of '05.

19 A. Could you back up one, please?

20 Q. Sure.

21 A. This looks like it's something that

22 must be dealing with the University of Illinois

23 Chicago. Art Savage was their executive vice

24 president or chancellor or something like that,and

25 John DiNardo I believe was the president of the


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1 hospital system.

2 Q. This is a -- February of '06, this is a

3 meeting at the Triedstone Church where you were to

4 receive an award for recognition for your support

5 for the HIV/AIDS program and Dr. Dingle was

6 involved with that. Do you see that?

7 A. Sure. That was a great program.

8 Q. May of '06, a meeting with Dr. Dingle

9 to discuss managed care, manpower shortage, and

10 legislation by Congressman Conyers and Senator

11 Kennedy?

12 A. Yep.

13 Q. July of '06?

14 A. Yeah, I don't recall that.

15 Q. This is an e-mail about meeting at

16 Rainbow PUSH headquarters, also with Dr. Dingle and

17 Reverend Jackson. Do you see that?

18 A. Yeah, Dr. Dingle often connected with

19 me relating to Reverend Jackson.

20 Q. Did Dr. Dingle also call you regularly?

21 Did you speak with him on the phone regularly? Do

22 you recall?

23 A. I'm sure I did.

24 Q. This is October of '04, a message from

25 Dr. Dingle. February of '05 -- again tell me if


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1 this is too small. I can enlarge it -- February of

2 '05,do you see the three entries there relating to

3 Dr. Dingle?

4 A. Sure.

5 Q. April of '05, further calls from Dr.

6 Dingle, one initially calling for Ms. Golden and

7 then others to you; is that right?

8 And then March of '05 -- March 29th of

9 '05 Dr. Dingle called relating to Broadcast

10 Ministers Alliance, their contract. They are

11 driving him crazy wanting to know when they are

12 going to get their money for the prostate cancer

13 grant. Do you see that?

14 A. Yeah.

15 Q. Do you see it?

16 A. I mean, I'm -- yeah.

17 Q. So would these be examples of you

18 regularly communicating either in person or by

19 telephone with Dr. Dingle?

20 A. Sure. In almost every instance he's

21 representing one group or another that we had

22 dealings with as an agency.

23 Q. And during that time period did you --

24 were you familiar with the Broadcast Ministers

25 Alliance?


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1 A. You know, I actually had never heard of

2 it before I came to the department.

3 Q. But did you become -- did you become

4 aware of Broadcast Ministers Alliance --

5 A. Sure.

6 Q. -- through Dr. Dingle?

7 A. Yeah, sure. You know, the thing -- you

8 know, a lot of what we tried to do was evidence-

9 based. And the Centers for Disease Control

10 believes that having opinion leaders like ministers

11 involved with healthcare actually is a way to

12 decrease health disparities. And as a result, when

13 you talk about prostate cancer, hypertension, HIV,

14 breast cancer, the Broadcast Ministers were an

15 integral part of a lot of that work, in addition to

16 the faith-based.

17 Q. And so after -- after you became

18 director, did -- were you and Ms. Golden involved

19 in implementing initiatives of the administration

20 relating to breast and cervical cancer, BASUAH,and

21 prostate cancer,and emergency preparedness? Were

22 you involved?

23 A. Yeah, I would say -- you know, when you

24 say the administration, I think that's fair for

25 HIV,I think it's fair for breast cancer. Prostate


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1 cancer they had nothing to do with to my knowledge.

2 I think we originated that. And you said one

3 other. I'm sorry, I forgot.

4 Q. Emergency preparedness.

5 A. Emergency preparedness,we did that

6 internally,not from the governor's office.

7 Q. And were -- weren't those initiatives,

8 the BASUAH and emergency preparedness initiatives,

9 didn't they arise out of the governor's office?

10 A. No. Those are the only two -- I'm

11 sorry. BASUAH originated out of the governor's

12 office. Emergency preparedness I don't think arose

13 out of the governor's office.

14 Q. Did that arise out of the Department of

15 Public Health?

16 A. I think it arose out of our department.

17 Q. Was that something that arose out of

18 the director's office at Public Health?

19 A. You know, I'm not sure where the idea

20 came from. I know,again,we tried to do

21 evidence-based things, and, you know, so social

22 marketing and this opinion leader thing I just

23 talked about were major drivers of it, so we tried

24 to do it with all of our health activities. But,

25 you know -- so I think it -- you know, I'm not sure


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1 where -- you know, for emergency preparedness where

2 in the agency it emanated. It may have come out of

3 the office of minority health services. It may

4 have come out of emergency preparedness. I'm not

5 sure where. But it certainly was driven from our

6 agency.

7 Q. And when I say arose, did the -- did

8 the decisions regarding who got what grants, in

9 what amounts, and under what terms, did those

10 decisions arise out of your office at the

11 Department of Public Health?

12 A. You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

13 In terms of my own management style, I spent a lot

14 of time on the road. I visited 84 out of 102

15 health departments -- I mean counties, rather, you

16 know, during my tenure. So the division of labor

17 was such that I gave a lot of leeway to my deputies

18 to draft things in their particular areas. And

19 certainly,you know, the office of the director in

20 certain instances got involved in it certainly, you

21 know, and Quin Golden was my person inside the

22 agency who managed all the day-to-day.

23 Q. And you're aware, aren't you, Dr.

24 Whitaker, because we spoke about it this morning

25 and you referenced reading the newspaper, that


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1 during this trial evidence has been presented

2 relating to twelve grants that were issued during

3 your tenure at the Department of Public Health to

4 Broadcast Ministers totaling approximately four

5 million dollars?

6 A. Sure.

7 Q. Are you aware of that?

8 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, I would just

9 object to any references to what he told Mr. Bass

10 this morning justbecause,as we've already

11 discussed,we haven't had the opportunity to review

12 what was discussed between Dr. Whitaker andMr.

13 Bass. It's not something that I have had any

14 knowledge of or am not privy to. So I would just

15 object to the use of any reference to those

16 conversations.

17 THE COURT: But not in this hearing.

18 Now, you may certainly have the grounds for that

19 objection when the jury is in the box and if he

20 calls Dr. Whitaker and if Dr. Whitaker is asked the

21 same question. So you can hold that until that

22 time.

23 MS. DALTON: I'll hold it till then.

24 THE COURT: If it develops.

25 MS. DALTON: Okay. Thank you.


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1 cycles we wouldn't get monies to grantees until

2 very late in the grant cycle. And if we didn't

3 front-load the grant, then the money would get lost

4 to the agency as well as to the grantees.

5 Secondly, because a lot of the groups

6 we were working with were, you know, nascent

7 organizations, you know, newly formed and not as

8 financially stable, they needed their money so they

9 could pay their work force and others up-front.

10 They couldn't float -- they didn't have enough

11 reserves to float an organization. So we tried to

12 accommodate that, you know, given the reality of a

13 lot of very important yet small organizations.

14 Q. Were you involved personally in

15 deciding and awarding grants, any of the grants,to

16 Broadcast Ministers Alliance?

17 A. I'm sure I was, you know, part of the

18 process.

19 Q. Were you involved in deciding the terms

20 of those grants? And by that I mean the amounts

21 and the up-front funding.

22 A. I'm sure for some I probably was and

23 others I wasn't. So it wasn't a consistent thing

24 where I -- every grant had to come to me and I

25 determined the terms and amounts. That wasn't how


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1 it worked.

2 Q. Were there any other persons that you

3 can recall, Dr. Whitaker, other than Dr. Dingle,

4 who you were -- who the department was awarding

5 that volume of grants to with those up-front,

6 no-bid terms while you were meeting with Dr. Dingle

7 in the -- with the regularity that you did? Other

8 than Dr. Dingle, do you recall anyone else?

9 A. You know, what I can say is that when I

10 started -- you know, context is important and

11 oftentimes it gets divorced from the discussion.

12 When I started, the state was in a five

13 billion dollar budget deficit. We in the first

14 months of my tenure lost I want to say,through

15 early retirement, you know, upwards of 600 people.

16 And so we had federal grants that had deliverables.

17 We had state grants that had legislative mandates

18 that they get done. The work had to get done. So

19 we oftentimes turned to people like Dr. Dingle and

20 in the case of HIV the Illinois Public Health

21 Association -- and in fact,their amounts of money

22 that they got were larger than Dr. Dingle got --

23 and as well as the Illinois Public Health Institute

24 to help us get the work done.

25 So the difference between Dr. Dingle


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1 and these other groups is that Quin Golden was

2 involved in it and it was in my office. Because

3 Quin was the deputy and used my conference room,

4 Dr. Dingle was there.

5 Emergency preparedness was in a whole

6 nother building in Springfield and they didn't

7 really have a presence in Chicago in the same way,

8 so most of the staff was down here,and Dr. Dingle

9 was up there.

10 And in terms of the Illinois Public

11 Health Institute, they worked with -- with David

12 Carvalho and his staff very closely, similar

13 volumes of money.

14 So Dr. Dingle was not the only grantee

15 that had that sort of money. It is true that I saw

16 him more than those others because of the physical

17 proximity that Quin Golden had to me.

18 I'm sorry, I speak with my hands.

19 Q. You just mentioned -- did Dr. Dingle

20 have the use of the director's office?

21 A. I didn't say that. I'm saying that --

22 Q. But you said that he used your

23 conference room; is that right?

24 A. The staff member, Quin Golden, who he

25 worked with was in my office and she was the deputy


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1 who oversaw that area. As a consequence, the

2 meetings were where she was and that was in my

3 office. Dr. Dingle didn't have an office to

4 operate in my office.

5 Q. And I'm just asking. If I can ask it

6 in a better way, please tell me.

7 A. Yeah. I mean, there's a different

8 inference if you're saying that he comes in and

9 runs my office. That's not what happened.

10 Q. That's not what I asked you. I asked

11 you if he had use of your office.

12 A. He came to meetings that my staff set

13 up. So I don't know if I would call that a use of

14 my office.

15 Q. Now, I'veasked you about your meeting

16 with -- the regularity of your meeting with Dr.

17 Dingle --

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. -- by phone or in person. I'veasked

20 you if you received any benefits from him. I've

21 asked you about the trip to Las Vegas. And so my

22 question is, can you think of anyone else besides

23 Leon Dingle who you met with with that regularity

24 and who received four million dollars in up-front,

25 no-bid grants while you were the director? Can you


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1 think of anyone else that had the situation like

2 Dr. Dingle?

3 A. I'm going to have to give that some

4 thought. You know, it -- perhaps -- I don't have

5 benefit of having my records that you referred to,

6 and if I went through them, I probably could figure

7 out that. But, you know, I can't off of top of

8 head,but if you gave me a chance to look through

9 all my records. I had dozens and dozens of

10 meetings a day, you know. So, you know, I've met a

11 lot of people.

12 Q. I asked you about whether or not you

13 received any monetary benefits or other things of

14 value from Dr. Dingle. Were you aware that during

15 the time that you were the director and Ms. Golden

16 was the chief -- your chief of staff that Ms.

17 Golden was receiving bribes and kickback payments

18 from Roxanne Jackson with money originally

19 distributed to Dr. Dingle?

20 A. I had no idea.

21 Q. Did you -- so you had -- if you had no

22 knowledge, did you participate in that in any way?

23 A. No. By definition,I didn't

24 participate if I had no knowledge.

25 Q. Was there anyone that Quin Golden was


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1 closer to during that time period than yourself?

2 A. Probably no.

3 Q. And did you -- did you evaluate her?

4 Were you her evaluator?

5 A. You know, she reported to me, yes.

6 Q. And did you -- towards the end of your

7 tenure in spring of 2007 did you recommend her for

8 an$8,000 bonus?

9 A. Again,context helps here. At the time

10 -- you said what date?

11 Q. May of 2007.

12 A. The -- you know, one of the challenges

13 for us as an agency and for the government in

14 general was that we didn't have any pay increases

15 over a two-to three-year period. And to --

16 instead of instituting a step increase for

17 everybody at three percent or two percent or some

18 other number which would become part of the base

19 and the next time you did a step increase it would

20 be even more, the Office of Management and Budget

21 decided to do a one-time payment to all of the

22 staff subject to evaluations. So in that context I

23 would say nearly everyone in my agency got a

24 quote-unquote bonus. It was really a one-time

25 catch-up payment for all of the forgone step


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1 increases that all of our employees had.

2 Q. Dr. Whitaker, prior to this morning you

3 met with the Government once before; is that right?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And that was in December of 2012?

6 A. I think December 7th is what I heard,

7 yes, sir.

8 Q. Okay. And at that time you or your

9 counsel asked for the courtesy of meeting with the

10 Government outside the grand jury pursuant to a

11 proffer agreement; is that right?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And in that proffer agreement the

14 Government agreed not to use any of your statements

15 against you so long as you were completely

16 truthful; is that right?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. And during that interview the

19 Government asked you about your relationship with

20 Ms. Golden; is that right?


22 Q. To which you refused to answer; is that

23 right?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. During this time period --


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1 A. Actually, to be accurate, my attorney

2 suggested that we not delve into private areas

3 because I was told when I came into the hearing

4 room that I was going to be a potential witness and

5 not a target,but the questions were target-ish.

6 Q. Since you bring it up --

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. -- you were advised that you were not a

9 target of the investigation, meaning that you were

10 not someone for whom the Government believed there

11 was sufficient evidence to charge you with a crime,

12 nor a present intention in 2012 to charge you with

13 a crime. That's what you were advised of; right?

14 A. Yes. I was told not a target or a

15 subject at the beginning of that interview.

16 Q. And you were also advised that under

17 the broad definition of subject by the Department

18 of Justice you were a subject,meaning you were

19 someone whose conduct was in -- even though not a

20 target, your conduct was within the scope of the

21 investigation, like other employees at the

22 Department of Public Health; is that right?

23 A. You know, in fact, given we have notes

24 from the meeting, at the beginning of the meeting

25 we were told that I was not a target, nor a


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1 Q. And was that the first time that you --

2 you've already said that's the first time you met

3 with the Government and the only time prior to this

4 morning; is that right?


6 Q. And in that meeting in December of 2012

7 did the Government ask you to do anything other

8 than tell the truth?

9 A. And I answered every single question

10 but that question.

11 Q. And was -- was that meeting private?

12 A. I believe it was.

13 Q. And during the time that you were the

14 director and Ms. Golden was your chief of staff,

15 not -- I don't intend to go into the details, but

16 your relationship with Ms. -- your relationship

17 with Ms. Golden was more than professional; is that

18 right?

19 A. That's fair to say.

20 MS. DALTON: Your Honor, I'm just going

21 to object just for the record to this line of

22 questioning.

23 THE COURT: Overruled.

24 Q. And you would see her regularly both

25 inside and outside the office; is that right?


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1 A. You know, I would say that, you know,

2 during my -- my time in Springfield,I stayed in

3 Springfield three to four days a week and, you

4 know, worked ten to twelve hours a day, and Quin

5 was with me a great deal of time, except, you know,

6 possibly when I was out in other parts of the state

7 visiting local health departments.

8 Q. And she joined you at the University of

9 Chicago several months after you went there in the

10 latter part of 2007. She came -- she joined you in

11 early --

12 A. I think that's right, yeah.

13 Q. And your relationship with Ms. Golden

14 and your knowledge of her continued in 2008, 2009,

15 and up to the present; is that right?

16 A. You know, Quin is -- she was -- is a

17 good friend of mine.

18 Q. And during that entire time period from

19 2003 to 2012 when you met -- that nine-year time

20 period when you met with the Government the first

21 time, she never mentioned anything to you at all

22 about the bribes or kickbacks that she was taking

23 from Roxanne Jackson with money distributed to Leon

24 Dingle?

25 A. You know, as I told you this morning, I


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1 think that the first time she said something to me

2 about it was either -- I believe it was the day or

3 -- of the indictment coming out, and she called me

4 crying to tell me that, you know, she had done

5 something wrong and that, you know, there was going

6 to be an indictment.

7 Q. In addition to the awards that I've

8 asked you about and the trip to Las Vegas, did you

9 receive other benefits from Dr. Dingle,such as

10 payment for any food or alcohol by

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Eric Whitaker Transcript