Eric Nemeyer’s - Jazz Inside Magazine · 2019-05-17 · McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson At 80; Pianist McCoy Tyner and saxophonist Charles McPherson join the Jazz at Lincoln Center

HaynesHaynes

Interviews Michael FeinsteinMichael Feinstein Jazz At Lincoln Center, May 15Jazz At Lincoln Center, May 15--1616

Donny McCaslinDonny McCaslin With David Sanchez, Village Vanguard, April 22With David Sanchez, Village Vanguard, April 22--2424

Ernie WattsErnie Watts

Chico HamiltonChico Hamilton

Comprehensive Comprehensive

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Jazz Inside Magazine

ISSN: 2150-3419 (print) • ISSN 2150-3427 (online)

April-May 2019 – Volume 10, Number 1

Cover Photo and photo at right of Roy Haynes

By Ken Weiss

Publisher: Eric Nemeyer Editor: Wendi Li Marketing Director: Cheryl Powers Advertising Sales & Marketing: Eric Nemeyer Circulation: Susan Brodsky Photo Editor: Joe Patitucci Layout and Design: Gail Gentry Contributing Artists: Shelly Rhodes Contributing Photographers: Eric Nemeyer, Ken Weiss Contributing Writers: John Alexander, John R. Barrett, Curtis Daven-port; Alex Henderson; Joe Patitucci; Ken Weiss.

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CONTENTSCONTENTS

CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTSCLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 13 Calendar of Events 18 Clubs & Venue Listings

4 Roy Haynes - Photo Gallery

INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS 20 Donny McCaslin

26 Ernie Watts 31 Michael Feinstein 33 Chico Hamilton

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13 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 April-May 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com

Monday, April 1 William Paterson University Jazz Orchestra & Quintet With Ingrid

Jensen; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Ari Hoenig Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Trio feat. Buster Williams; Jon Elbaz Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Georgia Middleman and Gary Burr; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Deborah Davis, 21st Annual Jazz Benefit; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 2 J.D. Allen Quartet Featuring Liberty Ellman; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Yotam Silberstein Quartet Featuring John Patitucci; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Sullivan Fortner Trio - Sullivan Fortner, Piano; Ameen Saleem, Bass; Jeremy ‘Bean’ Clemons, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Hillel Salem Quintet; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Benny Green; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Joshua Redman Quartet: Aaron Goldberg/Reuben Rogers/Gregory Hutchinson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, April 3 J.D. Allen Quartet Featuring Liberty Ellman; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Yotam Silberstein Quartet Featuring John Patitucci; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Brent Birckhead; Sam Dillon Quartet; Davis Whitfield Quartet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Clint Holmes Celebrates The Jazz of Sammy Davis. Jr From The Copa to Broadway; Joe Alterman; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Thursday, April 4 Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

An Evening With Ben Vereen; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Aaron Seeber Quartet; Francisco Mela and the Crash Trio; Malick Koly "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Diane Marino; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Friday, April 5 Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Eliot Zigmund Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson At 80; Pianist McCoy Tyner and saxophonist Charles McPherson join the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis for an 80th birthday celebration. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Saturday, April 6 Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Eliot Zigmund Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; Brooklyn Circle; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson At 80; Pianist McCoy Tyner and saxophonist Charles McPherson join the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis for an 80th birthday celebration. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Sunday, April 7

Jazz For Kids; Veronica Swift; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Jeremy Manasia Quintet; The Zebtet: Music of Saul Zebulon Rubin; Alon Near Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Monday, April 8 Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz

Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Manhattan School Of Music Jazz Orchestra: Manhattan Sings; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Omer Avital Trio; Rodney Green Quartet; Sean Mason Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Jim Caruso's Cast Party; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Pablo Sainz Villegas; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 9 SFJAZZ Collective plays Miles Davis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Julien Labro & The Chanson Experiment; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Steve Wilson & Wilsonian’s Grain - Steve Wilson, Alto Saxophone; Orrin Evans, Piano; Ugonna Okegwo, Bass; Ulysses Owens, Jr., Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Justin Robinson Quartet; Frank Lacy's Tromboniverse; Malik McLau-rine Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

James Carter Organ Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, April 10 SFJAZZ Collective plays Miles Davis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Mason Brothers Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Remy Le Boeuf Quintet; Mike Lee Trio; Davis Whitfield Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Thursday, April 11 SFJAZZ Collective plays Miles Davis; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Mason Brothers Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Carlos Abadie Quintet; Jerry Weldon Quartet; Jonathan Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Arturo Sandoval; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, April 12 SFJAZZ Collective plays Antonio Carlos Jobim; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St. (Continued on page 14)

CALENDAR OF EVENTSCALENDAR OF EVENTS

How to Get Your Gigs and Events Listed in Jazz Inside Magazine Submit your listings via e-mail to [email protected]. Include date, times, location, phone,

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Sherman Irby & Momentum; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ralph Bowen Quartet; John Marshall Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Saturday April 13 SFJAZZ Collective plays Antonio Carlos Jobim; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



Ralph Bowen Quartet; John Marshall Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Sunday, April 14 SFJAZZ Collective plays Antonio Carlos Jobim; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



Joey "G-Clef" Cavaseno Quartet; Bruce Harris Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.





Monday Nights With WBGO, Yale Jazz Ensemble Featuring Randy Brecker And Wayne Escoffery; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Joe Martin Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Trio; Jon Elbaz Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Jed Levy; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Purchase Jazz Orchestra: Conducted by Jon Faddis w/ Ken Peplowski; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 16 Michael Leonhart Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

American Pianists Association Competition Winner; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Tom Harrell “Infinity” - Mark Turner, Tenor Saxophone; Charles Altura, Guitar; Ugonna Okegwo, Bass; Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Spike Wilner Trio; Josh Evans Quintet; Malik McLaurine Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Daryl Sherman "Spring Fever" with Art Baron, trombone; Boots Maleson, bass; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Big Sam's Funky Nation; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Wednesday, April 17

April Miho Hazama and m_unit "Dancer in Nowhere"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Jazz At Lincoln Center Gala - Dizzy’s Club Closed


Stephen Riley Quartet; Harold Mabern Trio; Micah Thomas Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Sheila Jordan; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Hector Del Curto w/ Paquito D'Rivera; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, April 18 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.

Monty Alexander Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


New York Jazz Nine; Moutin Factory Quintet; Malick Koly; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Terence Blanchard ft The E-Collective; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, April 19 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



George Burton Quartet; JD Allen; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Michael Wolff Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Saturday, April 20 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



George Burton Quartet; Brooklyn Circle; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Michael Wolff Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Sunday, April 21 Larry Goldings/Peter Bernstein/Bill Stewart; Jazz Standard, 116 E.

27th St.



Stranahan/Zaleski/Rosato; Ned Goold Quartet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

(Continued on page 16)

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Monday April 22 Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz


Purchase Jazz Orchestra With Special Guest Steve Nelson; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ari Hoenig Quartet; Joe Dyson Quintet; Sean Mason Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Roy Haynes 94th Birthday Celebration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, April 23 Darcy James Argue's Secret Society; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Sam Reider & Human Hands; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Gerald Clayton Quintet - Logan Richardson, Alto Saxophone; Walter Smith III, Tenor Saxophone; Gerald Clayton, Piano; Joe Sanders, Bass; Marcus Gilmore, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Gene Jackson Trio; Frank Lacy's Tromboniverse; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Kurt Rosenwinkel; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Wednesday, April 24 Darcy James Argue's Secret Society; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Evan Christopher: The Kings Of New Orleans Clarinet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Matt Pavolka's Horns Band; Dave Baron Quintet; Micah Thomas Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Kurt Rosenwinkel; Dena DeRose Featuring Special Guest Artist: Houston Person; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Thursday, April 25 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

“New York, Old Friend”: Songs Of Kenneth D. Laub With Clint Holmes, Veronica Swift And Nicolas King; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Matt Haviland Quartet; Jim Snidero Quintet; Jonathan Thomas Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.


Manhattan Transfer; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wynton Marsalis and Ken Burns: Country Music - Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis and vocalists Emmylou Harris, Rhiannon Giddens, and Marty Stuart perform country hits. Plus get a sneak peek at Ken Burns’ latest documentary, Country Music. 8PM, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Friday, April 26 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Kenny Barron Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Christopher McBride; Noah Preminger Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.



Saturday, April 27 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Christopher McBride & The Whole Proof; Noah Preminger Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.




Sunday, April 28 Stefon Harris & Blackout; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Chris Byars Original Sextet; JC Stylles Group; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Ken Peplowski Big Band with Special Guest John Pizzarelli; Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Temple University Jazz Band With Terell Stafford And Marshall Gilkes; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Ari Hoenig Trio; Kennci 4; Jon Elbaz Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Natalie Douglas "Nat Sings Nat: The Songs of Nat King Cole" With Mark Hartman; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Tuesday April 30 International Jazz Day - Camille Thurman With The Darrell Green Trio;

Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Joe Locke Group + Special Guest Raul Midón; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Gilad Hekselman; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Steve Nelson Quartet; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik McLaurine Trio "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Frank Catalano Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Wednesday, May 1 Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick Rosato, bass;

Obed Calvaire, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Willerm Delisfort; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Fleurine & Boys from Brazil New Album Celebration: Brazilian Dream With Special Guest Brad Mehldau; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Karriem Riggins Live; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, May 2 Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick Rosato, bass;


Bruce Forman Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Chris Potter Circuits Trio featuring James Francies and Eric Harland; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Emmet Cohen Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Bill Frisell Trio ft Tony Scherr & Kenny Wollesen; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 3 Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick Rosato, bass;


Houston Person Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy




Saturday, May 4 Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick Rosato, bass;





Sunday, May 5 Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick Rosato, bass;


Akiko/Hamilton/Dechter; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Chris Potter Circuits Trio featuring James Francies and Eric Harland;


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Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Simas & Amorim Duo CD release concert; Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, May 6 Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Mingus Orchestra: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Milos; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, May 7 Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin,

saxophone; Scott Colley, bass; Antonio Sanchez, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Sax & Taps With Dewitt Fleming, Jr. & Erica Von Kleist; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Duchess; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

David Murray with Saul Williams; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 8 Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin,


Essentially Ellington Alumni Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Duchess; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Thursday, May 9 Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin,


Juilliard Jazz Orchestra: Music Of Duke Ellington; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Jeremy Pelt: Jeremy Pelt; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Friday, May 10 Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin,





Saturday, May 11 Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin,





Sunday, May 12 Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin,


Jazz For Kids; Jeremy Pelt: Jeremy Pelt; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Ken Peplowski Quartet: Featuring Special Guest Vocalist Nicole Zuraitis; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Monday Nights With WBGO: Terraza Big Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Amanda Brecker; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Tuesday, May 14 Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar;

Aaron Parks, piano; Matthew Brewer, bass; Eric Harland, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Bill Charlap Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Michael Leonhart Orchestra with Special Guest Nels Cline; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Curtis Stigers with The Birdland Big Band Directed by David Dejesus; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Wednesday, May 15 Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar;


Smithsonian Jazz Masterworks Orchestra with Special Guest Kurt Elling; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Thursday, May 16 Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar;


Gil Evans Project directed by Ryan Truesdell; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Eric Krasno & Friends w/ special guest Lisa Fischer; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 17 Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar;





Saturday, May 18 Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar;





Sunday, May 19 Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar;


Jazz For Kids; Gil Evans Project directed by Ryan Truesdell; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Pete McGuinness Jazz Orchestra "Along For The Ride" CD Release; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Berklee Masters On The Road With Special Guest Melissa Aldana; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Andy Farber; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Marcus Machado & Friends; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, May 21 Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano;

Carmen Castaldi, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Gil Gutiérrez; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Dr. Lonnie Smith with The Jazz Orchestra of the Concertgebouw; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Brandee Younger & Friends with Special Guests TBA; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 22 Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano;


Gil Gutiérrez; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Brandee Younger & Friends with Special Guests TBA; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, May 23 Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano;


Melissa Aldana Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Chris Dave & The Drumhedz with Special Guest; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 24 Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano;





Saturday, May 25 Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano;





Sunday, May 26 Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano;



Greg Ruvolo Big Band Collective; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Arianna Neikrug; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Tuesday, May 28 Mark Giuliana Quartet - Jason Rigby, saxophone; Shai Maestro,

piano; Chris Morrissey, bass; Mark Guiliana, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Kenny Barron; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Alan Broadbent; Jazz Masters Play Ornette Coleman with Tom Har-rell, Donny McCaslin, Ben Allison, Steve Smith; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Roberta Gambarini Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 29 Mark Giuliana Quartet - Jason Rigby, saxophone; Shai Maestro,


Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Julian Lage; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Roberta Gambarini Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, May 30 Mark Giuliana Quartet - Jason Rigby, saxophone; Shai Maestro,


Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Kurt Elling; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Kenny Garrett; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 31 Mark Giuliana Quartet - Jason Rigby, saxophone; Shai Maestro,


Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Drew Gress & Billy Hart; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Alan Broadbent; Jazz Masters Play Ornette Coleman with Tom Har-rell, Donny McCaslin, Ben Allison, Steve Smith; Birdland, 315 W. 44th

Kenny Garrett; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

“Some people’s idea of free speech is that they are free

to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back that

is an outrage.”

- Winston Churchill


5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com

55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128,

212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org

Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650-

6900, aarondavishall.org

Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875-

5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp

Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and

60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org

American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park

W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org

Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088.

www.antibesbistro.com

Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759,

arthurstavernnyc.com

Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378-

2133, artsmaplewood.org

Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St.,

212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org

BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org

Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com

Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339.

222.barlunatico.com

Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn,

718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com

Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083,

bargemusic.org

B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144,

bbkingblues.com

Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070

Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645.

www.becobar.com

Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights

Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600

Birdland, 315 W. 44th, 212-581-3080

Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com

Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036,

212-245-2030, [email protected]

Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505,

bowerypoetry.com

BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600,

http://bricartsmedia.org

Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn,

NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org

Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com

Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and

Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746

Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com

Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2nd Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam-

bulo.com

Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com

Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612.

Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org

Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan-

drasjazz.com

Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave.,

Asbury Park, 732-774-5299

City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608-

0555. citywinery.com

Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769-

6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com

Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com

C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn.

www.cmoneverybody.com

Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356

Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319

Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey

07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org

Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027,

908-232-5666

Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900

Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595,

jalc.com

DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com

The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com

East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662.

www.evsnyc.com

Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358-

0774.

El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831-

7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org

Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com

The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970,

Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com

Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc

Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot-

soulfood.com

Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718-

463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org

For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427

Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago-

sartspace.com

Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and

Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com

Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034,

212-544-9480

Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220.

www.ginfizzharlem.com

Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY

10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/

Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362,

glenrockinn.com

GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com.

Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY.

914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com

Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green-

wichvillagebistro.com

Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600.

www.harlemonfifth.com

Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har-

lemtearoom.com

Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147.

hatcitykitchen.com

Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC,

212-662-8830, havanacentral.com

Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave.

highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314.

Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525,

609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com

Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD.

hudsonroom.com

Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ

IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com

INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick

NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com

Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com

Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910

Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor

Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595

Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets:

212-721-6500

Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org

The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey

Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com

Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net

Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl.,

212-539-8778, joespub.com

John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center)

Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com

Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair,

973-655-4000, montclair.edu

Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com

Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com

Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490,

knickerbockerbarandgrill.com

Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto-

ry.com

Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue

New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com

La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St,

New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com

Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com

Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244.

www.lefanfare.com

Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York,

New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com

Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080

Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400.

www.lexinghotelnyc.com

Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542,

Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com

The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC

Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org

Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585,

lounge-zen.com

Maureen’s Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-

3143. maureensjazzcellar.com

Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703

McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787,

mccarter.org

Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501

-3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm

Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206-

0440

Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY

10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com

Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com

Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933

MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com

Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area),

516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com

Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800,

montaukclub.com

Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com

Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222.

www.muchmoresnyc.com

Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com

Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between

103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org

Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376

National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455.

www.nationalsawdust.org

Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102-

3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org

New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ,

07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org

New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212-

568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com

New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw

5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu.

New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st

Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu

New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway &

University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org

North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.),

212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com

Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and

6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net

Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020

212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com

Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928

The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc

Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973-

746-6778. palazzonj.com

Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885

Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

Clubs, Venues & Jazz ResourcesClubs, Venues & Jazz Resources

— Anton Chekhov

“A system of morality

which is based on relative

emotional values is a mere

illusion, a thoroughly vulgar

conception which has nothing

sound in it and nothing true.”

— Socrates


Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-768-0855

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ,

908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com

Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com

Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St.,

Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795

Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155

Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St.

(Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose

Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472,

845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com

Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th

St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org

Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700,

rustikrestaurant.com

St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377

St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728

St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200,

saintpeters.org

Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St.

NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com

Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700

Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200,

nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html

Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang-

haijazz.com

ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215

shapeshifterlab.com

Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941

Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373

Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org

Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733-

9300, skippersplaneStpub.com

Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565,

SmallsJazzClub.com

Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268

Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel,

221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799

South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484-

5120, 154southgate.com

South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC

Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787

Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St.

Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923

Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor,

212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org

The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com

Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37th St. 212-584-4000

SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com

Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com

Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.),

212-262-9554, swing46.com

Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212-

932-3228, symphonyspace.org

Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope,

Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com

Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia),

212-777-7776, terrablues.com

Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110.

www.threesbrewing.com

Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue,

City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com

Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com

Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358-

7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com

Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003

Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus

Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com

Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007,

[email protected], tribecapac.org

Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600,

trumpetsjazz.com

Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968

(845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com

Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com

Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037

Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected],

Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069,

908-753-0190, watchungarts.org

Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538,

914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net

Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800

Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY

11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org

Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800

Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

RECORD STORES

Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242

-3000, http://academy-records.com

Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002,

(212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com

Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804,

212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com

MUSIC STORES

Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036,

646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com

Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001

Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com

Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island

City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com

Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New

York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com

SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128

212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org

Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St.,

Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450

Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com

City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411,

Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011,

212-741-0091, thecoll.com

Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY

Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242-

4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org

Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000

LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave.,

Long Island City, 718-482-5151

Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St.,

10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900

Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music,

University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372

Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027,

212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025

NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528

New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936

NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446

NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com

Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical

Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793

Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of

NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800

Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam-

pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302

Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University

Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595

newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html

SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300

Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues)

William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton

Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320

RADIO

WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624-

8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org

WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus

WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html

WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway

Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr

ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES

Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor-

[email protected]

Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368,

718-997-3670, satchmo.net

Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers-

Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595

Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org

Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300,

jazzmuseuminharlem.org

Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036,

212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org

New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org

New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org

Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY,

212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org.

“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world

and moral courage so rare.”

— Mark Twain

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Interview by Eric Nemeyer

Photo (right) - Cover of album Beyond Now

JI: Let’s talk about how your experiences

with vibraphonists Gary Burton and Mike

Mainieri and the contrasts between working

with each of them.

DM: Well, with Gary Burton, as I was saying

earlier, I started playing with him when I was

chosen for a student group that he took on a

Jazz cruise when I was a junior at Berklee and

then my last year, I joined his band and toured

with him pretty regularly for the next few

years. The thing that was great was that he

was really clear about what he wanted musi-

cally and what my role in the band was. Be-

fore I played with him, I was used to sort of

playing tunes, a lot of rhythm changes, blues,

modal tunes, etcetera … playing really long

and really open. In his group, it was a very

structured environment musically. He gave

me a clear role in terms of what to do during

the melody, what part of the melody to play.

When it came to soloing, it wasn’t kind of an

open ended thing. He would say, “Okay, play

a couple of choruses on this tune.” You would

kind of have a general idea what his expecta-

tions were in terms of your role in the group

basically. It was a good discipline for me be-

cause I was so used to playing really long and

taking a few choruses to warm up to a solo

and basically with him, if I knew I only had

two choruses, I knew I had to get right to the

point and sort of cut out the superfluous infor-

mation.

JI: It’s funny that you

mention that. I heard

Gary speak years ago

at some seminar. He

explained how when

he worked with

George Shearing, he’d

get one chorus per

solo. Initially, when he

started playing with George Shearing, he’d

start playing a solo and before he knew it, it

was over, and he hadn’t said what he wanted

to say. He said the limited amount of space he

was allotted to solo, gave him the opportunity

to polish his statements into very concise,

single choruses.

DM: Exactly. That’s what playing with Gary

really helped me become aware of and start

doing. The other thing … he played tunes in

different keys than I was accustomed to play-

ing them in. You know, I was used to playing

blues in Bb, F, C, and so on and so forth. We

used to play a James Williams’ song called

Soulful Bill and the song was basically in B

and it moved around, a really great tune. Ini-

tially it was like, “Wow.” I was so unaccus-

tomed to playing in those keys. This was good

training to get used to playing in different

keys.

JI: And then with Mike?

DM: With Mike Mainieri, I was a few years

older and had more experience. The thing

with Mike was it was sort of wide open but he

was clear with me with what my role was. He

wanted me to be sort of upfront, taking charge

of the band, and playing strong. In that sense,

it was clear. In terms of how I did that, wheth-

er it was one chorus or fifty choruses or what-

ever, that was pretty much up to me. The

thing that was really great about that gig is

that I had grown up as a fan of that band,

Steps Ahead, and Mike Mainieri. Michael

Brecker is such a great player and he played

with Steps Ahead. I just loved those records.

Here I was, years later, playing those same

tunes that I had grown up listening to and I

guess it was a really great experience for me

because I felt like, “Here I am and I need to

play these tunes in a way that’s original. I

can’t just play these tunes and try and sound

like Michael Brecker.” It’s nothing against

him because I absolutely love what he did on

those tunes. Here’s something where I really

need to try and fill this role and do it in a real-

ly personal way, strongly, with a lot of author-

ity. It was a great challenge. I think the ten-

dency for me when I was playing “Pools” for

example, I was hearing the recording that I

had heard as a teenager 300 times in my head.

I had to let go of that and try and find a differ-

ent way of playing that tune that was still go-

ing to have a lot of energy and where I could

do my thing. It was really great for me in

terms of forcing me to come up with a way

that felt original to me of playing on those

tunes.

JI: What saxophonists have influenced you

the most and why?

DM: Over the years there have been a lot of

saxophone players in whom I’ve immersed

myself, and developed an interest for various

reasons. When I was just starting out, I think

John Coltrane was my first big influence. Lis-

tening to him play, it felt so spiritual and emo-

tional and it was just so amazing and over-

whelming to me. I loved his sound and I was

drawn to him from such a young age, age, 12,

13, whatever, and I just listened to him exclu-

sively for such a long time. I listened to some

“Bird” [Charlie Parker] and some Sonny

[Rollins] but for the first four, five, or six

years I was playing, I was listening to “Trane”

all of the time. It’s hard to say if there was

one thing that drew me to his playing but his

sound, his lyricism, the emotional intensity of

his playing really grabbed me. I listened to

Trane a lot for awhile and when I was in high

school, I think I started getting into Brecker.

This was the time when I was listening to

Steps Ahead a lot. In ’80 or ’81 the Metheny

record had come out and his sound on that is

so amazing. He plays so great and so lyrically.

The intensity with which he played and the

sort of “virtuosic” ability he had, and the

sound being so clear, and so compelling to

me, I think that really drew me to his playing.

So, I checked him out for awhile. Then, I

think when I got to Berklee, I started kind of

expanding and checking out different guys. I

went through a period of really listening to a

lot of Joe Henderson and it’s hard to say why.

He’s such an amazing player on so many lev-


Donny McCaslin Lead A Balanced Life

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

It was a good discipline for me because I was so used to playing really long and taking a few choruses to warm up to a solo and basically with him, if I knew I only had two choruses, I knew I had to

get right to the point and sort of cut out the superfluous information.”



els. He’s an amazing composer and just the

sound and the way he constructs his melodic

lines is so ingenious to me. Stan Getz I got

next to for awhile because the warmth of his

sound, his lyricism, the clarity of his melodic

lines, his feel. Somebody who had a lot of

influence on me is Wayne Shorter. Certainly,

as a composer, one of the greatest composers

of the 20th century for me. I learned a lot of

his solos from records like Witch Hunt and

Juju. It’s so hard to put into words. He plays

like a composer. I think that’s what really

drew me to his playing. He’s such an impro-

viser. That actually reminds me of something,

something really valuable I learned playing

with Gary. Gary talked a lot about thematic

development as an improviser. Prior to play-

ing with him, I hadn’t really checked that out.

He sort of really harped on the thematic de-

velopment issue and I really learned a lot

from that. So, later, when I was really check-

ing out Wayne, I found that in his music. I

loved it so much and I continue to. I’m listen-

ing to his live record that just came out and

loving it. Then, I spent a lot of time with Son-

ny Rollins. Again, thematic development and

the swing is so strong with him. I just can’t

get over how much I love his feel, his time

feel. There’s a solo he plays on the music

from that movie Alfie. There’s this one ver-

sion where he takes this incredible solo. It’s

probably the most swinging thing that I’ve

ever heard in my life.

JI: I like his solos on Sonny Rollins on Im-

pulse and of course the classic Saxophone

Colossus and Tenor Madness. By the way,

you’re talking about Joe Henderson’s time.

You’re probably familiar with Four, the al-

bum by Joe Henderson and the Wynton Kelly

Trio Live at the Left Bank in Baltimore, 1968.

DM: I learned the whole solo from Four. It’s

unbelievable.

JI: Yeah. Did you write it out?

DM: I don’t think so. I haven’t listened to it

in a long time. That’s one of my favorite rec-

ords of life. That’s one of my desert island

records. That’s Joe Henderson at his best.

JI: The second volume, too.

DM: Yeah. I have that. I like the first one

better.

JI: Yeah, I do too.

DM: The second one’s great. Should I contin-

ue on the saxophone player thing? I could

keep going and going.

JI: Yes.

DM: I also love Jan Garbarek. There’s a rec-

ord with the band and Keith Jarrett called Be-

longing. That’s just one of my favorite rec-

ords of life. I think what was so compelling to

me about Jan Garbarek, as a kid, and what

continues to be, is his sound and his lyricism.

He has a sound as big as a house and he’s

such a lyrical player. I just loved it. I still love

it. I love Lester Young. I spent some time

with him. I think it’s just, again, his lyricism,

his swing, his phrasing is just unbelievable.

I’m probably forgetting people.

JI: You don’t have to name everybody.

DM: I could go on and on. That’s probably

enough on that subject, right?

JI: We can publish an extended version on

the web or something. What is it that inspired

you to become serious about music?

DM: For me, it was a natural path in that my

father was a jazz musician. My parents were

divorced. I’d see my father once a week. He’d

pick me up Sunday morning. We’d drive to

downtown Santa Cruz, to the mall. I’d help

him set up his Wurlitzer piano, his vibra-

phone, and his marimba. I’d set there for the

better part of the afternoon and he’d play with

his band called Warmth. They’d play from

like noon until 4 o’clock depending on the

weather and how many people were there.

Then, we’d pack up all of his stuff, put it in

his car, and then we’d go play basketball,

throw the football around, play baseball, de-

pending on what season it was sports wise. I

grew up with him as a big influence on my

life, of course. When I started playing around

age twelve, music came to be pretty quickly.

It just felt right…how can I say this? I didn’t

even have to think about it. I started playing, I

was taking lessons, I was into it, I was enjoy-

ing it. Before I knew it, I could tell that music

was what I wanted to do and it was at a really

early age.

JI: What’s the motivation and inspiration that

drives your career today?

DM: It’s the joy of participating in something

that I love. I love music so much. It’s such a

joy to participate in it because music has such

a healing and cathartic power and can be such

a powerful thing for people. I almost feel that

it’s sort of a ministry thing, like my way of

participating in spreading God’s love and

mercy and passion to the world by being a

musician and trying to express that musically

and getting that vibe out there, that light out

there through music. The motivation for me is

that, I would say. It’s partly selfish in that I

love music so much and I love playing and I

think it’s really important and vital thing to

society and to the world. I also feel like it’s a

ministry thing. God has given me this gift and

I want to do something with that, I want to try

and spread that light into the world and that

(Continued from page 20)

Donny McCaslin

“Gary talked a lot about thematic development as an improviser.

Prior to playing with him, I hadn’t really checked that out. He sort of really harped on the thematic development issue and I really

learned a lot from that. So, later, when I was really checking out

Wayne, I found that in his music.”


love through music.

JI: Has developing your own sound been an

intuitive process?

DM: Yeah, I mean, for me, I spent a lot of

time absorbing other musicians. In college I

was just inundated with information: tran-

scribed solos, transcribing solos, listening to

records, hearing other players that were my

peers and what they were into. I felt like dur-

ing that period of my life, I was experiencing

the entire spectrum musically. Even after I got

out of school, it felt like that for awhile. I

moved to New York and I would go out to

clubs all of the time. One night I would go to

a club and hear somebody play and go,

“Wow, I want to sound like that.” The next

night, I’d hear somebody who was playing a

lot differently and I’d also want to play like

that. It took me awhile to keep filtering all of

this different information. As I was filtering,

there would be certain things I would latch

onto. Certain things that grabbed me in my

heart and soul, about something rhythmic or

whatever. I would latch onto that and try to

develop that. I guess, slowly but surely, my

own identity emerged through this process.

JI: Did you take conscious steps to try and

create an original sound or your own voice?

DM: Yeah, I took some conscious steps. I

would think about, “What can I work on?”

Specifically speaking, I remember one time

working on these intervallic exercises that I

had to do to pass my proficiencies at Berklee

and I remember thinking, “Playing my scale

in sevenths…wow, this is kind of cool. I don’t

hear a lot of people playing these wide leaps

as part of their melodic language so this is

something that’s a little different. I like doing

it. Let me take this concept and roll with it.”

So, what I would do, was take that and as I

would practice a song I would say, “Okay, for

the next couple choruses I’m just going to

improvise using the interval of a seventh.” A

major seventh or a flat seventh or whatever. I

would pick an interval and only allow myself

to use that interval as I would work through

the changes for a few choruses and then may-

be I would change it up and do a major ninth

or a minor ninth or something, and kind of

keep that idea happening. I would consciously

latch onto things like that and then try to bring

them to fruition by working on them in a crea-

tive way.

JI: Great approach. Would you talk a little bit

about the things that you’re currently doing?

DM: Sure. For the last couple of years, I was

touring primarily with Danilo Perez. It was in

a group called The Motherland Project. It was

Luciana Souza on voice, Essiet Essiet on bass,

Adam Cruz on drums, and of course Danilo

and myself. That was pretty much my gig for

the last couple years and then we stopped

playing for awhile. Danilo is playing with

Wayne Shorter, and he’s back to doing some

trio stuff. Since then, I’ve been focusing on

my own group. I’ve been playing maybe once

a month in New York with my quartet or my

trio, and then I’ve been doing various side-

band projects with different people. Last

night, I played with David Binnie, who has

this project…basically, it’s rhythm section

and 5 horns. He’s playing alto but he’s also

doing some live samples. He’s just a really

great writer. So, I’ve been working with him

for at least ten years now on different projects.

I play as a sideman in his group. I’m just con-

stantly doing different projects. I’m playing

with Santi Debriano. He’s a bass player, origi-

nally from Panama. We did four nights a cou-

ple of weeks ago. It’s just been a bunch of

different freelance, sideman dates.

JI: Talk about Lan Zhang.

DM: Lan Zhang is a great group and it’s hard

to get everybody together. Everybody’s so

busy. Scott Colley, the bass player, has just

been on the road constantly, as has Kenny

Wolleson, and I’ve been real busy, and Dave

has been busy, too. Definitely a great band.

It’s a cooperative band. We have a couple

CDs out, and we’re hoping to do another one

within the next year or so. We did a gig that

was probably the first gig we’ve done in about

a year. It was totally killing. It’s a really spe-

cial group. If you can imagine, just logistical-

ly getting everybody in the same place is hard.

JI: Who are some players that you might like

to play with?

DM: Dave Holland. Yeah. I love his music. I

just saw his big band in New York a couple of

weeks ago. It was totally killing. A lot of my

friends play in his group. I’d love to play with

him and John Scofield. Let me think. I love

to play with Danilo, I love playing with him. I

hope that continues. I love Kurt Rosenwin-

kel's playing and I love his writing. I did a

tour with him a couple of years ago with Bri-

an Blade’s band. That was an amazing experi-

ence. I hope that I get to tour with them again.

He’s one of my all-time favorite musicians.

Who else would I like to play with? It seems

like there are so many.

JI: You have a couple of albums, one on Nax-

os and one on Arabesque, Scenes From

Above. What was the difference between

those two albums and the labels?

DM: Well, the difference was the one on

Naxos, that was produced by David Baker,

you know, and basically, they wanted a

straight ahead type of record. I picked tunes

and put together a group that I felt would best

be able to represent that side of my musical

personality. In terms of Scenes From Above,

that was more of an original music project. I

felt like I had the green light to do basically

all originals…I did only one standard on that

record, the rest are all originals. I was able to

do something more edgy where a bigger part

of my musical personality was there at this


“It’s such a joy to participate in it because music has such a healing and cathartic power and can be such a powerful thing for people. I almost feel that it’s sort of a

ministry thing, like my way of participating in spreading God’s love and mercy and

passion to the world by being a musician and trying to express that musically and getting that vibe out there, that light out

there through music.”

Donny McCaslin


“”The greatest discovery of any generation is that human beings

can alter their lives by altering the attitudes of their minds.”

- Albert Schweitzer

moment. Does that make sense? Basically, it

was more of an original music project. I just

went for it with that.

JI: If there is one for you, what’s the connec-

tion between music and spirituality?

DM: Yeah, I would say as a Presbyterian, as a

Christian, my faith is integrated into every-

thing that I do. There’s a strong connection

between that and music because I see music

as a spiritual thing. I’m trying to live every

moment being connected to God, whether I’m

playing basketball, or doing yoga, or playing

at the 55 Bar, or practicing. The spirituality,

the faith thing, is a big part of everything that

I do. Yeah. That’s basically it.

JI: What words of wisdom have you received

from a teacher or mentor that you can share

with us or is there a quotation that inspires

you?

DM: Now, of course, I could say more about

the spirituality and jazz thing. Should I go

back to that? I see music as my way or partic-

ipating in that. To me, when I’m listening to

something I really like, it’s an expression of

love. It’s so great and so exciting and I feel

like that kind of comes from God. There’s a

connection in terms of how I try and reflect

that into the world through music. In terms of

words of wisdom … I can’t remember where I

heard this, or if it’s something that I just came

to learn over there years…I think music…It’s

important to be diligent about practicing and

preparing yourself. Maybe it was Dave Lieb-

man who said something about this…

basically, if I’m going to practice one day a

week for ten hours, and then nothing the rest

of the week, I’m not going to get as much

done as if I worked 45 minutes or an hour a

day and really stayed focus. That’s been my

experience. It’s really important to work dili-

gently on the process of improving yourself as

a musician and as a human being because they

sort of go hand and hand. One thing that

Danilo has said to me that has inspired me a

lot lately is, “Don’t be afraid to take on differ-

ent roles in a band.” What the means for me is

just because I’m the saxophone player doesn’t

mean I have to always play like a saxophone

player. He was encouraging me a lot to dream

and think like an orchestrator a lot while I’m

improvising. I’ll be playing and all of the sud-

den, maybe I’ll start to hear a flute thing or a

bass thing or a drum thing and not being

afraid to just go for that. That’s really helped

to open me up I think a lot in my concept of

improvising. Thinking like an accompanist, or

thinking like a bass player. That’s something

that I think has carried a lot of weight with

me.

JI: What’s the relationship of listening versus

playing while you’re performing?

DM: Yeah. The more experiences I have and

the more I grow as a musician, the more I

listen, the deeper my listening is. Now, when

I’m in the middle of playing a gig with a

band, I’m really trying to completely listen to

everything that’s going on. As I’ve grown

musically, my ability to listen and take in eve-

rything has grown. When I’m playing, I’m

listening intently to everything around me and

just trying to be part of the ensemble more. I

think when I was younger, I felt like it was

my responsibility always to lead and always

to be in the forefront. Now, I see it differently,

and now I just try to participate in the ensem-

ble, and add colors to the ensemble in a way,

and not always thinking like a soloist, but just

listening to the overall vibe of the music and

how can I fit into that in an interesting way.

JI: What do you think is the most important

non-musical thing that a musician needs to

embrace to be happy?

DM: For me, I would say, “Well, it’s God,”

but that’s connected to music for me. Ulti-

mately for me, the peace and the sense of sat-

isfaction in life comes from my spiritual rela-

tionship with God so for me that’s what that

is.

JI: When we played together, we sat around

watching the Yankees in the World Series.

Are you a big Yankees fan?

DM: No, I’m more of a San Francisco Giants

fan.

JI: Is there anything that you’d like to add,

Donny?

DM: What else would I add? One thing that I

found is that leading a balanced life is really

great. Trying to get some exercise, eat healthy

foods, you know, that stuff has really helped

me to be a better musician. Going to a thera-

pist, dealing with issues. Leading a balanced

life is really important to me. I know a lot of

guys who just do music all of the time and are

really successful. For me, taking the time to

take care of myself on all levels of life is real-

ly, really important. That’s just really, really

important and the benefits of that, I’m seeing

play themselves out not only in my career in

music but in my whole life. Figuring out what

my needs are and taking care of that. To live

in New York, and dealing with all of that, and

being a jazz musician anywhere is such a ran-

dom, alternative lifestyle. By trying to put

myself on the path of how to fulfill that, and

doing the best I can everyday, that’s really the

most important.


“It’s really important to work diligently on the process

of improving yourself as a musician and as a human being because they sort of go hand and hand.”

Donny McCaslin


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By Eric Nemeyer

(Continued from the previous

issue of Jazz Inside)

JI: When you went to Berklee, what were the

challenges and benefits that you experienced?

EW: I was playing all the instruments. By the

time I got to Berklee, I had taught myself flute

and clarinet, and then I was playing saxo-

phones. When I started taking lessons at Berk-

lee, I was studying with Joe Viola. He decided

to teach me oboe. So I took oboe lessons for

the year and a half or so that I was at Berklee.

I was playing in Herb Pomeroy’s band and

playing in bands and playing in clubs. I was

working every night. We had an R&B band

with John Tropea. It was John Tropea’s band.

We had a great singer named Nate Pruitt, who

is in San Jose now. We use to work in the

Combat Zone, in Boston. We used to work in

these clubs where we were doing all these

Wilson Pickett and James Brown things – “I

Got You” and all of that stuff. That’s what we

were doing every night. And then on the

breaks I’d be doing my homework. I’d be

sitting there at the bar trying to do my home-

work on these gigs. Then I’d have school the

next day. That’s what I was doing at Berklee,

and practicing and studying. Then about a

year and a half,

my second year

back, I had the

opportunity to

join Buddy

Rich’s band. But

I was listening

and playing all

the time.

JI: How did your

association with

Buddy develop?

EW: Buddy Rich’s band was in town and

they were playing in a place called Lenny’s

on the Turnpike. It was a very well known

jazz club at the time. Gene Quill was in Bud-

dy’s band at that time and he just decided to

quit and come back to New York. So he quit.

They were in a jam. So the band manager, a

young guy, trombone player, called Phil Wil-

son to ask if there was anybody that could

help him out. They wanted to get a kid for a

couple of weeks because they could get a real

player later. I was the kid. I went out with

Buddy and I was supposed to be there for two

weeks, and I was there for two years. That

was their first tour. They were on the tour for

their very first album, which was the one with

“West Side Story.” So they were on that tour.

That’s when I joined them. I think I did three

or four albums with Buddy. We did some

band albums and then we did a very interest-

ing album with Alla Rakha and Buddy. Alla

Rakha was a tabla player who played with

Ravi Shankar for so long. So a lot of interest-

ing things like that. Buddy was a wonderful,

wonderful player and he was 100% for the

music. There are all of these legendary stories

about the Buddy Rich tirades. But the thing is,

I never saw him go off for no reason. There

was always a reason. Somebody did some-

thing, or somebody didn’t take care of busi-

ness, or somebody showed up and they were-

n’t prepared to do the gig, as so he would go

off. I think he got an adrenaline rush from his

anger. Once he got going he had trouble stop-

ping. After he made his point, then he would-

n’t be able to stop and then it would get kind

of strange. But he never just went off. There

was a reason. I had a very good experience

with him. He was 100% for the music, I was

100% for the music. I was playing lead alto at

the time. I was practicing all day and going to

the gig. One of his sayings was, “Out of a

twenty-four hour day, all I need from you is

four hours of responsibility. Whatever you

guys do the other twenty hours of the day is

fine, as long as you show up and do the gig.” I

had a very good time with that band. I discov-

ered California. We went there to do a TV

summer replacement show on CBS, the Away

We Go show. Buddy Greco was on it and

George Carlin too, when he was still doing the

Hippy-Dippy Weather Man and all of those

things. We were there for thirteen weeks do-

ing that show. I started playing in rehearsal

bands and meeting people in town, and so

when I left Buddy’s band I decided to move to

Los Angeles rather than here. I just really love

the mountains; I like the feel of it. I like the

hills and stuff. When I moved there, I walked

right into the middle of the studio scene. I

didn’t even know what the studio scene was. I

didn’t even know what it was to be a studio

musician. I figured I’d just move to LA and

probably play with groups, try to do some

group things. I got there and I started subbing

in for recordings and films for people who

were very established and were so busy that

they sent subs to rehearsals and stuff like that.

So I started out subbing for Buddy Collette,

and meeting a lot of the people that were do-

ing quote-unquote studio work. I got involved

in that for like, twenty-five years. [laughs]

JI: You mentioned before that Buddy used to

get himself angry and that would give him the

adrenaline rush. Steve Peck, who was Bud-

dy’s manager in the seventies, said that Buddy

used to eat a couple of chocolate bars before

the gig to really get that sugar rush, in addi-

tion to the anger rush.

EW: [laughs] His favorite saying used to be,

we’d be backstage getting ready to go on to

do a TV show or a concert, and he’d go,

“Swing, or I’ll kill you!” [laughs]

JI: When you were rehearsing new arrange-

ments with the band, how did that work?

EW: Well, he didn’t read. We’d be in a club

and we’d have a new arrangement, we would

play it and he’d sit in the audience and listen.


Ernie Watts Always on the journey

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

“Gene Quill was in Buddy’s band at that time and he just decided to quit and come back to

New York. So he quit. They were in a jam. So the band manager, a young guy, trombone player, called Phil Wilson to ask if there was anybody

that could help him out. They wanted to get a kid for a couple of weeks because they could get a real player later. I was the kid. I went out with Buddy and I was supposed to be there for two

weeks, and I was there for two years.”


Er-Er-

nie nie


He’d just sit in the house. He’d listen. We’d

play it again. He’d listen. He’d say, “Can you

play that section back there?” We’d say, “Oh

yeah, that’s letter C.” That might have been

something that was in an odd time, or had

some breaks or something. We’d play that

section and he’d listen, and then he’d get up

and play it.

JI: Were you interested in writing or arrang-

ing for big band at that time?

EW: I never wanted to arrange. The thing that

I always wanted to do and the thing that I’m

still working on is just writing good tunes. I

always had the concept of, I wanted to play

my own music, and if you want to your own

music, it’s got to start with the tunes. So I was

always interested in writing good tunes and I

was always listening to people that know spe-

cial kind of things. Like, Horace Silver had a

sound; Oliver Nelson had a sound. Seeing

what was there, the tools, things that were

going on intervallically. I’d practice and I’d

write. It’s funny how you learn a lot of tech-

niques, you learn a lot of science, but when

you get ready to do the music, you just do the

music. And I write when I practice. When I’m

practicing, I hear things and I write those

things down. Then I’ll fill in the harmony and

the bass notes. It’s just something that I can’t

get because I have absolutely no piano tech-

nique because when I was at Berklee, instead

of doing my piano/keyboard, I was practicing

and doing gigs. I’m miserable on the key-

board. I do everything I can, and then to fill in

the harmony, I work with the piano player I

play with in my quartet, David Whitman. We

work together to fill in the harmony and bring

the composition together. He hears harmoni-

cally the way I hear, so if it’s something that I

can’t play technically, he just says, “Oh, that’s

this.” He lays it in and that’s right. I work a

lot with him.

JI: You mentioned that you didn’t listen to

other saxophone players. Experimenting with

the sound of musicians who play instruments

other than your own enables you to get away

from the clichés of your own instrument. Do

you look to non-sax players for inspiration?

EW: There are things that every instrumental-

ist does that are indigenous to their instru-

ment. The way your hands go on the instru-

ment, the things your hands do on the saxo-

phone, are similar to things that other people’s

hands do on the saxophone. Same with trum-

pet – the things that a trumpet player’s hands

do on the trumpet are similar. To open up

your melodic concept and get away from

playing the instrument to play music, it’s very

enlightening to hear other people play. When

I hear Michael Brecker or any other saxo-

phone player play, I know what they’re doing.

I know what the keys are, where they’re over-

blowing the fifth, when they’re doubling up

stuff. Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, anybody.

When you study the saxophone for four years

and you hear somebody play the saxophone,

you’ve got a pretty good idea of what the

guy’s doing. But when you study the saxo-

phone for four years and then you listen to

Keith Jarrett, or Herbie Hancock, or Alan

Broadbent, you say, “Oh. It’s the same tune.

It’s the same set of chords, but there’s a whole

other way to come at this stuff.” That’s what

I’m doing. I’m very interested in coming at

harmony in another direction and getting

away from being a saxophone player to being

a musician. I’m a real good saxophone player.

Sometimes I’m not as good a musician as I

would like to be. So I’m working on being a

better musician. And that encompasses all of

that stuff.

JI: Your level of humility is astonishing com-

pared to the level of musicianship that many

people perceive you really have.

EW: We’re always on the road. We’re always

on the journey. Nobody else is in your head

but you. We all see the world through our

eyes. We all have our individual view of what

it is, of what we are. We’re always trying to

get past ourselves. It’s like when you study,

you practice and you focus and you concen-

trate and you’re doing all of these things, we

get very much inside our heads. When you

play, you have to let all of that stuff go. When

I get up on the bandstand to play, it’s like I’ve

never played music before. It’s a new slate.

So all the things I’ve practiced, all the things I

work on, all the things I’m doing, I try to for-

get about and then become a part of the mu-

sic. When we play, we become the music.

These tunes are not something we’re assault-

ing with our prowess and technique. When we

play, especially with great people, you be-

come the music. The whole thing becomes a

picture, and then you’re a part of the picture.

That’s the thing that I keep reminding myself

of. It’s an academic puzzle at home. If you’re

working on the dominant 7th flat 5 scale, or if

you’re working out the relationship between

the dominant 7th flat 5 scale and the minor

with the major 7th, and the relationship is a

fourth – it’s the same scale but a fourth away.

Okay, you do that stuff when you’re home.

When you’re up on the bandstand, you’re not

thinking about, “Okay, well I’m going to do

this minor-major seventh scale here. Here

comes the ii-V. Or I can do the diminished

scale on the minor ii-V.” No. You don’t have

time to do that. That’s what I tell the kids

when I do a clinic. You have to be familiar

with all of those things and you have to know

your instrument because improvisation is

spontaneous composition. Spontaneous com-

position is like speech. It’s like talking or

singing a song. If you’re having a conversa-

tion with somebody, you don’t think about

where you’re going to put your tongue to an-

nunciate the t in the word the. If you had to do

that, the conversation would be over before

you could get a word out. It’s the same way

with playing the instrument. All of these


“We [the Buddy Rich Big Band] went there to [L.A.] to do a TV summer replacement show on CBS, the Away We Go show. Buddy Greco was on it

and George Carlin too, when he was still doing the Hippy-Dippy Weather Man and all of those things. We were there for thirteen weeks doing that show. I started playing in rehearsal bands and meeting people in town, and so

when I left Buddy’s band I decided to move to Los Angeles ... I walked right into the middle of the studio scene. I didn’t even know what the studio

scene was. I didn’t even know what it was to be a studio musician.”

Ernie Watts


things you have to know. You have to have

them hard-wired. Then you forget all about

them and you tell your story. You make some-

thing beautiful. That’s why we’re here. We’re

here to make something beautiful. We’re not

here to do math puzzles.

EW: Until I went to Berklee I played totally

by ear. I did pretty well, until there was a

modulation or there was some kind of har-

monic difference that happened and I might

not be able to pick it up. When I went to

Berklee I was taught my chord-scales. When I

went to Berklee, I was taught, or I learned, or

I looked at it and I figured it out, that every

chord has a scale. If you learn every scale for

every chord, it’s impossible to play a wrong

note. So on a scientific level, after that point

improvisation becomes an elaborate game of

multiple choice. And I’ll do that with the kids.

I’ll take a mixolydian scale, and I’ll play the

chord and I’ll play the scale, and then the

rhythm section will play, and I’ll just play

anything. But it’s in the scale, and so it’s cor-

rect and it makes sense. Then I talk to them,

“And this is also because, you know, five or

six years of listening to nothing but John Col-

trane records.” My brain was programmed to

hear melodically that way anyway. Even

when I was playing random, I was coming

from melody. Just like Trane. When Trane got

to the point of being tonally free, that was

after all of those Prestige records, playing and

recording hundreds of records. Then he went

to Atlantic and it was all of that concentrated

work through that period of “Giant Steps,”

and the “Giant Steps” reharmonizations of

“Body and Soul” and “But Not for Me.” By

the time he got to Impulse records, his whole

consciousness was totally steeped in harmony

and melody. So no matter how free you think

you’re getting, after that kind of background

it’s still going to be rooted in harmony and

melody. That was the problem that came up

with all the “new thing” guys—all of those

young guys that came out of nowhere. They

were doing all of this free music in the sixties

and it was just really out there. The thing is

that it didn’t hold together because it didn’t

have the basis of discipline. Freedom through

discipline.

JI: That’s it. Coltrane went from being an

early fumbler through difficult chord changes

to fully assimilating all of this vocabulary,

building a foundation to impart his own form

or structure when there was none. A lot of the

people that have come afterwards in free jazz

were playing out of tune or had bad technique.

You can use those kinds of effects, but you

can’t rely on them to pass off your inability to

play as art.

EW: You should be able to play “I’ve Got

Rhythm” and the blues. That’s the first thing

you teach the kids in school. You teach them

to play the blues and then after learning the

twelve-bar blues, the next thing you teach

them is “I’ve Got Rhythm” – rhythm changes.

The basis of harmony and the things that

come out of that, a lot of it is related. When

you teach the kids the blues, they’re learning

the blues scale; they’re learning how to play

on the mixolydians; they’re learning about the

feeling of the blues. And “I’ve Got Rhythm”

is the beginning of ii-V motion and playing

through keys. It’s like, you can’t break the

rules if you don’t know the rules. [laughs]

JI: How did your association with the Tonight

Show develop? Did the stability that comes

from playing in a situation like that afford the

opportunity for a lot of freedom in developing

your music further?

EW: Well, I think I’ve been very blessed be-

cause I’ve just kind of stumbled upon one pot

of gold into another pot of gold. My life has

always been like that. It’s basic – I really love

music, I practice, I worked on my music. I

learned how to play the other instruments

fairly well. So when I went to Los Angeles, I

started doing so-called studio work: I started

playing on records, films, other TV shows. At

the same time I moved to Los Angeles in

1968, Motown was moving from Detroit to

Los Angeles. I started playing in all of their

horn sections – Marvin Gaye, The Commo-

dores, The Temptations, all of the Diana Ross

stuff. All of those people that came out of that

thing – the Jacksons, when Michael was

twelve years old. All of that stuff. I was in

those horn sections, playing flute, clarinet,

piccolo, saxophone, playing a little saxophone

on the fade. I got very successful at doing

that. When I was with Buddy Rich’s band, we

played here at a club downstairs in the Empire

State Building called Riverboat. While we

were there, Doc Severensen came in. I met

Benny Goodman – he came in. A bunch of

great people came in to hear Buddy. I think

from that, when I was in Los Angeles and the

Tonight Show came out to Los Angeles – they

would come out for two or three times every

year for a couple of weeks at a time – I be-

lieve that Doc asked for me. I started playing

in that band when they were here two weeks

at a time. When they moved to California

permanently, I was asked to be in the band

permanently.

JI: When you were on the Tonight Show

band, how did that impact your creative pur-

suits?

EW: Well, you know, all of that music – the

Tonight Show band, record dates, all of the

studio work – was at a high level. I learned a

lot about the music business. I learned a lot

about playing my instruments in tune. I

learned a lot about showing up on time, be-

cause when you had a 9 o’clock in the morn-

ing for a fill-in for one of these guys, and

there’s an 80-piece orchestra, at 9 o’clock, the

tape starts rolling and it starts costing them

$30,000 a minute or whatever it is. So you

learn to be on time. You learn punctuality. So

I learned a lot about the music business and

the craft of music. On the side, I always had a

quartet. I always played in little clubs. I was

always working on my tunes. I was always

listening and practicing. It got to a point

where it was time to turn the page. And that


“We’re always on the road. We’re always on the journey. Nobody else is in your head but you. We all see the world through our eyes. We all have our individual view of what it is, of what we are. We’re always trying to get

past ourselves. It’s like when you study, you practice and you focus and you concentrate and you’re doing all of these things, we get very much inside our heads. When you play,

you have to let all of that stuff go.”

Ernie Watts


xxxxxxxxxx

was another one of those things that worked

out perfectly.

JI: Did you find that studio work was com-

posed of 98% boredom and 2% terror?

EW: Yeah, they used to say, “98% boredom,

2% sheer terror.” [laughs] Usually the 2%

sheer terror is because of someone’s incompe-

tence. The 2% sheer terror is because the

composer didn’t study orchestration, so he

wrote a clarinet part that should have been a

piccolo part, and then you’ve got to play it –

that’s the 2% sheer terror. Henry Mancini

wrote beautiful books on how to write great

music and not kill anybody. [laughs] I had all

those experiences. The thing with me was the

studio work did not fulfill my daily minimum

requirement for creativity. I got to the point

where I just didn’t want to count rests and

read parts anymore. So it all evolved together,

really. Around 1981, the synthesizers came in.

Before that, I could do three record dates a

day and a TV show. The synthesizer thing

came in and all this multi-section work got cut

out. I was known as a soloist then, because I

had been playing solos on a lot of pop rec-

ords. I was still fairly busy on the solos, be-

cause some of the sessions I’d go to, the only

acoustic instruments on the whole project

were me and the vocalist, the artist or group.

At that time the session thing started to slow

down. I was getting more interested in doing

my own thing. I met my manager around 1983

and we set up a program to do college con-

certs and clinics. That’s when I started to do

my college concerts and traveled. After that –

I think it was 1986 – I met Charlie [Haden]

and we started playing together. We did a few

tours with Pat Metheny. After playing with

Charlie and Pat Metheny and really playing

all the time with great players, it was time for

me to turn the page. I couldn’t do any more

studio work. It was time for me to go on. So it

worked out perfectly, because the work

slowed down anyway. It was time for me to

turn the page – I knew that. These beautiful

creative environments came up with Charlie

and Pat. In 1986 I sold my house in L.A. and I

moved to Colorado because I figured I would

take myself physically out of the scene so that

I could create more time for myself to study

and grow. If you’re busy in the studio scene

and you say you’re going to take a day off to

practice and write, you take that time and you

set it aside, and you’re getting ready to sit

down and practice and write, and somebody

calls you up for a McDonald’s commercial,

you’re not going to say, “Well, I’m practicing

and writing today.” You’re going to say,

“Okay.” So you get in the car, and you go and

you travel in horrible traffic, and you try to

find a parking place for fifteen minutes. Then

you go in the studio and you sit around till

they wait for you to do your two minutes.

Then you do your two minutes and you have

to find your car. By the time you get back

home from doing a jingle, it’s five hours out

of the day that’s gone, you’re so depressed

and you feel so bad, all you really want to do

is crawl under the bed and cry. You’re burnt-

out. You’re burning and you’re unfulfilled. If

you want to do it, you do it. If you don’t want

to do it and you do it, it’s twice as hard. So I

moved to Colorado. I bought a little house

right outside of Aspen. I’ve had that little

place for thirteen years. What would happen

is the contractors would call me and I would-

n’t be able to do it because I’d be out of town.

When the contractors call you three times and

you can’t do it, you’re dead meat anyway –

you’re gone. I always used to tell everybody it

takes everybody three days to know that

you’re gone, but it takes three months for

them to know that you’re back in town. You

go out of town for three days, and for three

months when you’re back, people were say-

ing, “Oh! I thought you were out of

town.” [laughs] So I sort-of took myself out of

town. And from that, it gave me a chance to

evolve and start doing more playing and tour-

ing. I started going to Europe again. I started

going to Japan. I got so busy traveling that I

didn’t have any time to be in Colorado. I was

never there so I sold my place in Colorado

and I moved back to LA and bought the condo

that I had been renting. But by then, I was

already out of the food chain.

JI: You did a number of State Department

tours to Africa, for example. Could you talk a

little bit about that? There are a lot of people

going to Africa. It’s kind of an exotic trip. To

go with a group like Oliver Nelson’s band,

which was all great players playing great mu-

sic, the combination of the scenery, the travel,

and the music must have provided you with

some extraordinary perspectives.

EW: That was in 1969. It was the Blues and

the Abstract Truth band. It was a wonderful

tour. The music was great. It was very inter-

esting because we were in what was French

West Africa and they were just beginning to

turn all the countries back. We were in Sene-

gal, Chad, Mali, Niger, and Cameroon. We

were in Niger and you could just walk out of a

concert and walk out into the desert, where it

was totally quiet and dark. It was to me the

quietest place; it was deafeningly quiet, be-

cause when it’s quiet here it’s not quiet. It’s

never quiet here as long as there’s an electri-

cal outlet and something is plugged in, there’s

a hum. There’s always a hum, no matter

where you in our culture – unless you go out

in the middle of the desert or Alaska. So it

was the only I think I’ve ever really been

where it is truly quiet. I mean, it’s frightening

[laughs].

JI: Could you talk about your association

with Charlie Haden, who is himself a sensi-

tive and soft-spoken individual? How did his

music gel with what you do?

(Continued in the next issue)


“When Trane got to the point of being tonally free, that was after all of those Prestige

records, playing and recording hundreds of rec-ords. Then he went to Atlantic and it was all of that concentrated work through that period of

“Giant Steps,” and the “Giant Steps” reharmoni-zations of “Body and Soul” and “But Not for Me.” By the time he got to Impulse records, his whole consciousness was totally steeped in harmony and melody. So no matter how free you think

you’re getting, after that kind of background it’s still going to be rooted in harmony and melody.”

Ernie Watts


Interview By Eric Nemeyer

JI: Talk about the highlights of the Jazz and

Popular Song Series at Jazz at Lincoln Center.

MF: Well, it seems like a natural combination to

me in that so much jazz is formulated from or

based on American popular song. Yet, I find

that, generally speaking many programs that

have been devoted to jazz don’t ever

acknowledge the participation or importance of

the songs and the songwriters themselves. For

example, Ken Burn’s series on jazz does not

mention any American popular composer other

than Duke Ellington. There is no mention of any

other songwriter. That’s a ten hour series with

not one mention. So I think that is fascinating

and yet what would these guys be playing if they

didn’t have American popular song - either the

songs themselves or the various things that have

been created based on the changes of all these

songs, like I’ve Got Rhythm” or “How High the

Moon” or another obvious ones like “What is

This Thing Called Love”. So I first met Wynton

[Marsalis] at a Jazz At Lincoln Center benefit at

the Apollo several years ago. The performance

of course, was wonderful as always, but I was

very impressed with talking to him afterwards

when he started talking about his commitment to

keeping jazz alive for young kids—keeping it

going- spreading the word- propagating the

world of jazz in a way that is completely reso-

nant with what I want to do with American pop-

ular song. They’re both forms of music that are

not mainstream and that the only way these art

forms survived is through the sharing and the

education of younger people. So that’s the first

thing that I felt a bond with him about and then

we became friendly and I was approached by the

people at Jazz At Lincoln Center asking if I

would be interested in putting together a series

of programs that would celebrate and look at the

connection between jazz and American popular

song. Of course I was thrilled to be involved for

all the obvious reasons and that’s how it began.

JI: It’s interesting that you mentioned the im-

portance of popular song in the jazz lexicon

because as a player and composer arranger my-

self, one of the big things that less experienced

jazz players fall prey to and one of their chal-

lenges is that the melody seems to be nothing

more than a jumping off point where as really

the greatest improvisers have always been the-

matic improvisers developing the melody in a

very prolific kind of way. Would you like to

chat about that for a second?

MF: Sure. Who was the famous sax player who

stopped in the middle of a solo and was asked

why he stopped and he said, “I forgot the

words”? I can’t remember who it is but it would

make it a much more significant anecdote. Many

of the instrumentalists know the lyrics of the

songs because it is part and parcel of the creation

of the work. And so sometimes the words spur

the composition of the melody or gave them an

identity - a further identity if you will. The songs

themselves, even in jazz solos, are inextricably

linked - the words are inextricable linked to the

music. I remember George Gershwin’s long time

girlfriend, Kay Swift, who was a marvelous

composer, told me that one time she complained

to George that Ruth Etting in a Broadway show

in 1930 or ‘31 was mangling her song. She said

Ruth was singing it straight through in the first

chorus and then it became unrecognizable and

George said, “Just be grateful that she sings it

straight in the first chorus. “ A lot of people

don’t have the respect for the melody and it’s

not necessarily that you have to adhere to the

melody, but if you know what the melody is,

then you can make more brilliant choices in

what the improvisation is going to be because

knowing the melody and knowing what the orig-

inal changes are is knowledge and knowledge is

power. So it really is essential to me when I

learn something to learn exactly what it was the

writers wrote, and then make any changes or

substitutions or whatever. It’s so interesting

when you go back and look at the original songs,

the melodies are not anywhere near the way

people do them. It’s like “Lover Man” – the

original melody is a little different from the way

Billie Holiday does it and everyone does it like

her. It’s things like that that are just interesting

and not amusing but they become part of the

lexicon. But if you know the way it was origi-

nally written then you think, “Oh my god, that’s

something that Billie Holiday improvised and

maybe it’s better than the original but it’s still

valuable to know where it came from”.

JI: And of course so many people toss out the

theme that comes right before the well known

melody which is in some cases is a really fabu-

lous piece of music that just gets thrown by the

wayside.

MF: Yeah, you’re talking about the verses of the

song?

JI: Yes, I’m sorry- I meant the verse.

MF: Absolutely. Ira Gershwin said that they

worked as hard on the verses as they did on the

choruses. It’s valuable stuff. The thing that I find

wonderful about my favorite jazz artists is how

they can be faithful to the original intention of

something and yet be so fresh and original in

their own right. Having spent a lot of time with

song writers I know how important the chords

were that they chose. For example, “Love is

Here to Stay”. A lot of times I’ll hear people

play, if it’s in the key of F, they will do it in a

C7 arpeggio and they will play single notes, “c d

a f”, and then they will do the G7 chord - but

there’s three chords on those first three notes –

three gorgeous chords that are in the music, and

when I hear that song played that way and then

they hit that first chord, they have already lost

me because they left out the best part of the

chords for me. Those notes were important to

those guys.

JI: Of course, there’s no shortage of reharmoni-

zation in the jazz world when it comes to popu-

lar tunes.

MF: Well that’s one of the things that keeps the

tunes fresh and keeps them alive - all the things

that can be done with them. That’s the great

thing about jazz because jazz gave people per-

mission to incorporate those elements in other

types of music. What I mean is that the greatest

pop records of the ‘50’s and 60’s, like Nelson

Riddle, Billy May or whoever you want to

choose, they all had the greatest jazz players

like, Sweets Edison, Buddy DeFranco and all

these people doing these amazing jazz solos so

the general public that would listened to mood

music in those days would say, “Oh I don’t’ like

Jazz but I love Mantovani”. They were listening

to jazz, they just didn’t know it and it was those

elements that made them love those songs.

JI: Someone said that the only reason people

don’t like jazz is because they haven’t heard

good jazz. They’ve heard something that doesn’t

really make much sense. And it’s like anything,

if you hear something of quality, you are going

to resonate with that no matter if it is a piece of

artwork, painting or great music.

MF: Absolutely, I agree 100%.

JI: Could you talk about each of the four themes

for the upcoming May and June series and the

featured performers and supporting cast, briefly?

MF: Not without a piece of paper in front of

me! [Laughs]

JI: [laughs] Do you want be to prompt you?

MF: Yes, but I know the first one [series] is

Ellington.

JI: Yes, I Got It Bad and features Montego

Glover, Sam Harris, and Lillias White.

MF: Coleman Domingo had to drop out. There

will be a fourth male who we will know about in

Michael Feinstein

On jazz and popular song

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW


xxxxxxxxxx

the next couple of days. Ellington of course was

the natural way to start this series because he

traversed very easily between the worlds of jazz

and popular song, And so this will be a compen-

dium of his songs with the emphasis on the sing-

ers and the lyrics which will hopefully give the

people a further perspective of Ellington as a

songwriter. His granddaughter, Mercedes Elling-

ton, told me that he didn’t like people to depart

from the melody of the songs when they were

sung - which I found shocking. But she insisted

that was the way he felt. He liked people to sing

them the way he wrote them, at least once

through – just like George Gershwin said. So the

program will be a variety of some well know

things – it’s always important to give people

what they want – and then there will be a num-

ber of lesser known Ellington things. One of the

things about Ellington as a song writer is that it

is probably one of the most vastly under-mined

bodies of music I’ve ever encountered. When I

start looking at the number of songs that he

wrote, it’s dizzying.

JI: Yes, over two thousand.

MF: One of reasons that there are so many is

because he would write an instrumental, Colum-

bia Records would send them to the lyricist who

was under contract at that time, to his publisher,

and the lyricist would name the instrumentals in

many instances. Ellington didn’t have names for

some of them—it was Don George or Bob Rus-

sell—they would name them. Then they would

choose the ones they thought could become pop-

ular songs. And so they would pick ones that

they felt could be adapted and then they would

write a lyric for it. Of course now that is differ-

ent from when Ellington was writing a Broad-

way musical—when he wrote Beggar’s Holiday

and truly collaborated with John La Touche and

wrote a Broadway score. Consequently, those

songs have in many instances more emotional

depth to them because they were written for plot

and character and for specific situations as op-

posed to somebody just taking a melody and

coming up with an idea for it. When Marshall

Barer wrote with Duke Ellington—his very last

Broadway musical called Pousse Café—it was

five years in the making because Ellington was

on the road touring and Marshall would get to-

gether with him every several months and they

wrote, he said, eighty songs, a couple which are

now lost. There are some gorgeous things in that

score so we’re going to do a couple of those.

That show, five years in the making, lasted three

nights on Broadway. So it will be a cross section

of some of the theatrical things that Ellington

wrote and then a selection of familiar and un-

known popular gems.

JI: That’s fascinating. All the un-mined material

that is in the archives that Mercedes and his

family have.

MF: They preserved as much of it as they could.

JI: The next event is More Than A Song: The

Music That Integrated America and that’s in mid

May, hosted by you and featuring Quentin Earl

Darrington, Allan Harris and Karen Ziemba.

MF: This is going to be an interesting show and

it’s the hardest one. It’s the greatest challenge to

put together because it’s about black and white,

songwriters and performers, and how music

integrated our country. That is one part of the

evening. The other part of the evening will be

comprised of songs that addressed social issues,

being it poverty, racism or you name it. There

are so many songs that were written in response

to things that were happening in our country. Or

songs that someone was inspired to write that

they felt needed to be said and change the face

of our country, or in some cases a song like “We

Kiss In The Shadow”, which became an under-

ground anthem for gay people because what that

lyric said was the way a lot of gay man and

women lived their lives. So it’s taking these

songs and putting them in a context that looks at

their broader significance. The approach to the

Broadway material is on several levels really

because what was happening on Broadway in

the teens, ‘20’s and 30’s was a time when our

country was going through extraordinary chal-

lenges in the racial perception of a country and

the business of music was colorblind. A black

man could write a song and it could become a

big hit because there was no racism possible in

that sense. That is one of the wonderful things

about the music business and that is why the

Jews got into the music business in the late

1800’s because it was a business they could go

into where there was no prejudice in being in-

volved, and get opportunity in employment.

There were opportunities for writers on Broad-

way and eventually integration on Broadway

with Ethel Waters and things started to change.

But it was through the music and songs like

Irving Berlin’s “Supper Time” or Fats Waller

and Andy Razaf’s, “What Did I Do To Be So

Black and Blue” that addressed issues in a way

that people could accept.

JI: The Jazz & Popular Song the Family Con-

cert is with I Got Rhythm: The Common Roots of

Popular Songs and Jazz, and of course you will

be hosting that again.

MF: Yes, it’s going to be a fun concert because

that concert will be about songs that were writ-

ten for Broadway or stage but have become jazz

standards. Like, “I’ve Got Rhythm”, or “How

High The Moon” or “April in Paris” or” All The

Things You Are”. What we are going to do is

perform these songs somewhat in the original

context and then do jazz improvisations on

them. So people will get to hear, “How High

The Moon” with the verse and hear it sung sort

of straight the way it was done on Broadway

which was a scene in a revue which took place

during the London blitz when two lovers were

together and they thought they were going to be

killed, and their lives were endangered. That’s

what that song is about and so to hear it that way

and then to move on and to hear how it evolved

– that to me is going to be very exciting. It really

will show the history of this music and how it

has evolved in a very short span.

JI: The fourth in this series is, Sweet and Low

Down: How Popular Standards Became Jazz

Classics.

MF: That’s really the same thing.

JI: So it’s an extention.

MF: Yes

JI: In that one Wynton is playing and Barbara

Carroll is going to be there. You’ve recently

done an album with Barbara Cook, Cheek To

Cheek. Would you like to take an opportunity to

speak about the development of that album?

MF: Well, they are all great and extraordinary

musicians. Lee [Musiker] did an arrangement of

“I’ve Got You Under My Skin” for Barbara

Cook that is rhapsodic. John Oddo is fantastic

the way he writes for small group in the tradition

of the great arrangers and as we spoke before,

puts great jazz solos in the midst of these pieces.

The experience of working with Barbara was

wonderful because she’s all about the lyric and

she’s a soprano who is now 83 and is amazing.

She loves jazz and she loves to have the sound

of jazz in her arrangements. The recording itself

was done live at the club. We recorded five

shows and just picked the best takes. It was a

great honor to work with her.

JI: What are the challenges in diversifying your

focus into these many involvements that you

have, such as Artistic Director of the Palladium

Center in Indiana, Feinstein’s At The Regency,

recording, The Jazz At Lincoln Center Popular

Song Series? What kind of support team do you

have so you do not have to move al the chess

pieces around by yourself?

MF: I have a wonderful support team because I

am lucky enough to know that I can’t do every-

thing by myself and if an opportunity comes I

only accept it if I think I can do a good job,

hopefully. The support system I have is great.

There are two assistants that are with me

fulltime and then there is a full time road manag-

er who takes care of all the technical require-

ments for concerts.

Michael Feinstein

“”A man’s character may be learned from the adjectives

which he habitually uses in conversation.”

- Mark Twain



Interview and photo by Ken Weiss

Chico Hamilton, born September 21, 1921 in

Los Angeles, CA, has spent 75 years behind the

drum set, playing a wide-ranging assortment of

jazz styles, including r & b, fusion, advanced

hard bop, big band and the avant-garde. Ham-

ilton is a subtle and creative drummer who

views the drums as a melodic device more than

a percussive one, and is best known for his role

in Gerry Mulligan’s piano-less quartet (1952-

53), a group that included Chet Baker and be-

came a leader of the Cool school of jazz, the

series of quintets that he led during the mid-

‘50s –mid-‘60s which featured an unorthodox

mix of jazz and classical instruments, and for

his ability to “discover” young talent such as

Eric Dolphy, Larry Coryell, Steve Potts, Arthur

Blythe, Steve Turre and Eric Person. This inter-

view took place at his New York penthouse

apartment, a stone’s throw from the United

Nations building.

Jazz Inside Magazine: Your first name is real-

ly Foreststorn, that’s not a name you hear every

day. Where did that come from?

Chico Hamilton: My ethnic background is

Mexican, Apache Indian and German Jew. I’m

also Swedish and my great-grandfather was

some kind of African chief. He was an ex-

tremely wealthy man and when he passed

away, he gave each of his grandchildren

$68,000 cash. My father didn’t take his because

he ran away from home, I was pissed at my

father. [Laughs] I was born in Los Angeles,

California but I’ve been in New York since ’66.

JI: You turned

90 this past Sep-

tember. That’s a

huge milestone,

especially for a

jazz musician. It’s

a sad fact that

many of your

peers died half a

lifetime ago.

CH: God willing and that’s a milestone for

anyone. Man, I got an address phone book over

there and every last person in that book is gone.

I attribute my longevity to my daughter, she

keeps me on the ball, she kicks my ass if I don’t

do right.

JI: What concessions have you been forced to

make due to your age?

CH: Right now, I’m trying to put on some

weight, I’m too thin, I’m just skin and bones, if

I can put on 5 pounds I’ll be pleased, but it’s

hard.

JI: How often are you performing these days?

Are you limiting your travel?

CH: We’re playing on a regular basis at

DROM here in New York. I still rehearse eve-

ry week but I can’t fly anymore because of

health issues. If I go to Europe, I will take a

boat. I like boats, the first time I went to Europe

was on a boat. I was with Lena Horne, have

you ever heard of her?

JI: Yes. You recently had some new work

come out. I listened to your Revelation CD

which I found to be very uplifting. Was that a

goal of yours or is that coming out of how you

feel about life today?

CH: That’s the way I write. I think it’s good

music, that’s all. You have to understand some-

thing, I don’t write music for people, I write

music because I feel and believe that music is

one of God’s will and God’s will, will be done.

That’s what I believe and when you don’t write

music for people, you don’t get your feelings

hurt. You can’t please everybody. Dig?

JI: Was there a time that your feelings were

hurt because people didn’t like your music?

CH: No, my attitude was that they lose. I came

up with Gerry Mulligan and that was our atti-

tude.

JI: Your drumming on the new recording fea-

tures you way more up front in the mix than

your early recordings. It’s now easy to hear

everything you’re doing.

CH: That’s because I mixed it that way. I got

an engineer that understands how to record for

drums. I don’t use no pillows or blankets or

nothing, just pure drum.

JI: You wrote fourteen of the 22 compositions

covered on the new recording. Are you writing

all the time or do you gear up when it’s time to

record?

CH: Every time I can get a thought. The one

problem with that is that you’re writing some-

thing and all of a sudden you say, “Shit, I heard

this before,” and then come to find that I had

written the same kind of phrase, but that’s the

price you have to pay. I keep my theory book

and study every day.

JI: Where do you get your inspirations to

write? Are you constantly listening to the

sounds around you?

CH: No, you know how I made my money? I

did commercials and doing commercials I made

it a practice not to listen to the radio. I didn’t

want to be influenced by anybody, I wanted to

stay original and so far it’s worked.

JI: What’s the best advice you were given

during your career?

CH: The best advice was save your money.

I’ve never had a problem making money be-

cause when I was a kid I used to take my shoe-

shine box and make a nickel a shoe. I made

enough money then to buy my first set of

drums by shining shoes. Dig?

JI: I understand your first job was performing

in the Tarzan movies.

CH: Yes. Where I grew up, there were no

more than five or six black kids and (actress)

Dorothy Dandridge’s mom used to get studio

work for the kids before the studios were big.

She’d collect us kids and put us on a truck and

take us out to the location and if you got paint-

ed they paid you $14 and if you didn’t get

painted, they paid you $7 a day. We used to

stay hidden so as not to get painted because (Continued on page 35)

Chico Hamilton Just be yourself

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

“The best advice was save your money. I’ve never had a problem making money because when I was a kid I used to take my shoeshine box and make a nickel a

shoe. I made enough money then to buy my first set of drums by shining shoes.”


once you got painted, that was it. They couldn’t

use you no more, they couldn’t use the same

face. We figured out it was best to hide. This

will all be in my autobiography that I am work-

ing on. I’m going to call it All The People That

Made Me Famous.

JI: Please talk about your personal take on

drumming. You’ve had a unique style from the

start, emphasizing subtleness, brush strokes and

layers.

CH: I’ve always thought of my instrument as

more of a melodic instrument as opposed to a

percussive one. I heard melodies that needed to

come out.

JI: You’ve said in the past that Art Blakey had

a big influence on you yet your style is differ-

ent from his hard percussive approach. What

did you pull from Blakey?

CH: Until I heard Blakey, I’d never heard

anybody play like that before. He wiped me out

when I heard him in Billy Eckstine’s band. I

never heard anybody keeping the time going

and dancing with the left hand and the bass

drum. He did that until the end.

JI: What did you learn from studying drums

with Jo Jones?

CH: Jo and I were very close but I didn’t study

with him. Strangely enough, we never talked

about drums, we talked about the world. He had

a lot to do with me formulating my life. I met

Jo when I was 16 years old. The first thing he

said to me was, “Stay in school.”

JI: You were about 8 years old at the start of

the Great Depression (1929 - 1939). How did

your family handle it and did this catastrophic

event have a lasting effect on you as a musi-

cian?

CH: We all got out and worked. My mother

raised chickens and we had a garden of fresh

vegetables. That’s how you lived at that time,

everybody was poor. It definitely affected me.

JI: Some of the liner notes to your recordings

make note of your strong religious foundation.

When you chose to play jazz back in the day,

jazz had a sinister connotation in the minds of

many. Was this a difficult decision for you and

did you encounter any backlash from your

community?

CH: You mean a sinner connotation. I didn’t

give a shit about them. My brother was an actor

– Bernie Hamilton (Captain Dobey in Starsky

& Hutch) – and some of my mother’s friends

would come over to the house and Bernie

would be lying on the couch reading poetry or a

script and they used to tell her, “Pearl, why

don’t you make that boy go and get a job?” She

let us do what we did.

JI: You’ve been a part of many great bands

over the years but the most impressive one was

your first at Jefferson High School. You were

in a band with schoolmates Dexter Gordon,

Illinois Jacquet, Charles Mingus, Buddy Col-

lette, Ernie Royal and Jack Kelso.

CH: Orchestra, use the word orchestra. I hate

the word band – cigar band, rubber band. We

used to rehearse in my wife’s brother’s house,

he played trombone and that’s how I met my

wife. All those guys in the orchestra ended up

being giants.

JI: What was Mingus like as a youth?

CH: Crazy, he was a crazy MF’er. I don’t

want to tell any stories about him. He and my

wife went to Sunday school together. We were

cool together.

JI: You spent time with many of the great

band leaders in jazz history. I’d like to ask you

about a few of them. Please talk about what

stands out for you about them and also share a

few memories about Lester Young.

CH: Pres was a giant, an original in more

ways than one. He never swore, he came up

with his own language. He would say “Mother

tucker” in place of MF’er and “Ofay” was his

phrase for white people. I loved him, he was

my hero. I started smoking cigarettes, the same

brand he smoked because of him – Tareyton’s.

He was a very independent man.

JI: How about Count Basie?

CH: He wouldn’t let me shoot craps in his

band. I learned how to use dice when I was in

the Army and in the tour bus I used to win all

the money until he said, “You don’t play no

more craps on my bus.”

JI: Were you cheating?

CH: No, I know how to roll.

JI: How about Nat King Cole?

CH: Nat played at my wedding. We were good

friends, he was a beautiful man, a dynamite

human being. He played unbelievable piano.

JI: Slim Gaillard

CH: He was a funny dude but he was a genius.

Anything he touched, became musical. He’d

kick his feet on the piano and get a good sound.

JI: Duke Ellington

CH: Duke was Duke. If you wanted to say yes,

Duke could make you say no. If you wanted to

say no, Duke could make you say yes. He had a

gift for gab. I was influenced by four people –

Duke Ellington, Billy Strayhorn, Luther Hen-

derson and Gerald Wilson. That’s where I got

my musical development from.

JI: Can you say something about Lena Horne?

CH: Yeah, I thought she was a witch, she was

something else. For example, she could hold up

her arm and move it and it would look like her

whole body was moving. She had rhythm and

movement down perfectly.

JI: You spent time with both Lester Young

and Billie Holiday. Many have questioned the

nature of their relationship. Do you know if

they had a romantic relationship?

CH: Hell if I know? He introduced me to the

lady.

JI: You first came to national prominence as a

member of Gerry Mulligan’s piano-less quartet

in 1952. There’s varying reports as to why

there was no piano in the band. What’s the real

story behind that? (Continued on page 36)

Chico Hamilton

“Jo and I were very close but I didn’t study with him. Strangely enough, we never talked about drums, we talked

about the world. He had a lot to do with me formulating my life. I met Jo when I was 16 years old. The first thing he said

to me was, ‘Stay in school.’”


CH: There were no piano players around. At

that time, all the piano players had their own

thing going on.

JI: What was your first thought when you

heard there was to be no piano in that band?

CH: It didn’t bother me.

JI: There’s not a lot of talk about Gerry Mulli-

gan these days, what can you tell us about him?

CH: Gerry was a strange dude, I’m just the

opposite of him. If an audience member was in

the joint making noise, he’d stop and chastise

them. If I’m playing in a joint, you make a

noise, shit, I’ll just play softer and someone

else will say, “Cool it.”

JI: The Mulligan band was considered to be a

leader of the so-called Cool School or West

Coast Jazz scene. Was this form of jazz a delib-

erate movement away from the hard-driving

East Coast approach to Jazz?

CH: The West coast was on the West coast,

the East coast was on the East coast.

JI: The first Chico Hamilton Quintet was

formed in 1955 and set new ground combining

classical elements with jazz. You added the

cello of Fred Katz to Buddy Collette on flute,

Jim Hall on guitar and Jim Aton on bass. Why

decide on this musical assortment?

CH: The bottom line is that we just happened

to be five people in the right place at the right

time.

JI: You weren’t looking to do something dif-

ferent?

CH: Play in tune.

JI: Eric Dolphy got his start with you. How

did you find him?

CH: He went to school with my brother Ber-

nie.

JI: How did your listeners take to his playing?

CH: Some did, some didn’t. I didn’t care what

people thought.

JI: What can you say about Eric Dolphy the

man?

CH: He was one of the most beautiful human

beings I have ever known in my life. He was a

dynamite dude, man. Very professional, gentle,

the most professional musician I have ever

known.

JI: You put out an album in 1966 called The

Dealer which has a cover photo of you smok-

ing a cigarette and looking mean. Drugs cer-

tainly were a big problem in jazz at the time,

why use this image and name the album like

that?

CH: I think (producer) Bob Thiele came up

with that. I would just record and forget it. I

didn’t want to have anything to do with it after

I recorded it, not with the liner notes or any-

thing.

JI: The Dealer included Archie Shepp playing

piano on his original tune “For Mods Only.”

It’s odd that Shepp, a saxophonist, would play

piano as a sideman for you. What was behind

that?

CH: He was a good piano player. It wasn’t my

idea, it was Bob Thiele’s idea.

JI: Throughout your career as a leader, you’ve

continued to feature guitar in your band instead

of piano, why this longstanding commitment to

guitar?

CH: Because the way I played, I did all the

dancing. Keyboard would lock you in, guitar

can sustain.

JI: You’ve proven to be one of the best talent

scouts/mentors for young jazz musicians in

history – along with Art Blakey and Betty

Carter. A few of the musicians you’ve given a

start to are Eric Dolphy, Larry Coryell, Steve

Turre and Eric Person. How do you discover

future stars?

CH: It works both ways, they discover me, I

discover them. If I’m looking for a new player,

I put the word out and the next thing you know,

my phone rings. The bottom line is that the

musicians know I didn’t come to see a circus

because they know I am the circus.

JI: You were quite the Hollywood tycoon in

the mid-‘60s, forming a commercial and film

production company. How did that get its start?

CH: It started right here in this room. I started

it for money and I got it off the ground by hus-

tling.

JI: Did someone approach you at first or did

you just see the opportunity?

CH: I got a call to do a Spring cigarette com-

mercial while I was in England and I came

back here to do it. It was when cigarettes were

on the air. I wrote the music (sings ‘Spring is

better’), I produced it, I recorded it and I pub-

lished it and I think it came to nearly about

$35,000. I just stayed right here and got into the

business with Chico Hamilton Productions. I

went on to make commercials for Volkswagen

and a zillion others. That’s how I built my

house.

JI: Did your fellow musicians criticize you for

“selling out” by making commercials?

CH: They wished they could do it. I recently

dissolved that business.

JI: You also did some scoring for movies such

as Sweet Smell of Success (1957) and Roman

Polanski’s Repulsion (1965). What was your

experience doing that?

CH: Roman Polanski never forgot why he

hired me. I didn’t know at the time but, they

had followed me all over the country for 6

months to find out whether or not I was into

dope before they gave me the part.

JI: You co-founded The New School jazz pro-

gram in 1986. What do you stress to your stu-

dents?

CH: It’s hard to become professionals in their

craft.

JI: Any concerns about churning out young

musicians to a steadily declining job market?

CH: Well, it’s always been like that, hasn’t it?

JI: How do you handle the student who may

not seem talented enough to succeed in the field

of music?

CH: He’ll find out sooner or later.

JI: You were named an NEA Jazz Master Fel-

lowship in 2004. Drummer Roy Haynes pre-

sented you, what’s your relationship with

Haynes?

CH: We’re good friends.

JI: What’s been your proudest moment?

CH: I married my wife.

JI: You mentioned earlier that you’re working

on an autobiography, when will that be availa-

ble?

CH: When I’m done working on it. What I

wrote first had too many cuss words in it and I

was told that kids are going to read it so I’m

redoing it. I’m leaving out all the four-letter

words.

JI: Any final comments to make?

CH: Just be yourself.

Chico Hamilton

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Midtown Manhattan 242 W. 30th Street, New York, NY 10001 Ph: 212-730-8138 Hours: 11–7 M–F; 11–6 Sat

Chicagoland 2000 Bloomingdale Road, Unit #110 Glendale Heights, IL 60139 Ph: 630-237-4997 Hours: 11–6 Fri; 10–5 Sat | Additional hours by appointment.

www.maxwelldrums.comServing the

Community of

Professional

Drummers and

Drum Lovers

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http://www.maxwelldrums.com

Documents

Eric Nemeyer’s - Jazz Inside Magazine · 2019-05-17 · McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson At 80; Pianist McCoy Tyner and saxophonist Charles McPherson join the Jazz at Lincoln Center