Dr. Kellman: Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Raphaelmicrobiomemedicinesummit.com.s3.amazonaws.com/transcripts/Natasha...have many beneficial worms inside the digestive system, that we cannot

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The Direct Relationship Between Gut Health, Mental Disorders, and Mental Clarity Guest: Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride The purpose of this presentation is to convey information. It is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure your condition or to be a substitute for advice from your physician or other healthcare professional. Dr. Kellman: Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Raphael

Kellman from KellmanCenter.com. I am excited to welcome you to this amazing segment of The Microbiome Medicine Summit. The microbiome and its role in maintaining health and healing disease is one of the greatest medical discoveries in modern medicine. We are so excited to share key insights that will help you uncover the unseen root causes of your health issues. According to research, we are made up primarily of bacterial cells that control virtually every aspect of our physiology. And in this segment as well as throughout the Summit, we will shatter the myth that bacteria are the enemy, and you will see that, in fact, these bacteria of the microbiome are actually your greatest allies when it comes to improving health. And it will enable to activate your highest potential. With that said, let me introduce our special guest Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, fondly also known as Dr. Natasha. And we're going to discuss the role of the microbiome in its relationship to depression, anxiety, lack of vitality and neurodegenerative disorders. But before we do that, I want to tell you a little bit about Dr. Campbell-McBride. Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride is a medical doctor with two post-graduate degrees: a master of medical sciences in neurology and a masters of medical sciences in human nutrition. She is well known for developing a concept of GAPS (gut and psychology syndrome) which she described in her book, Gut and Psychology Syndrome: Natural Treatment for Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia,


Dyspraxia, Depression, and Schizophrenia, now in its second edition. In her clinic Dr. Campbell-McBride works as a nutritional consult with many patients with heart disease, high blood pressure, arrhythmia, stroke, and other complications of arteriosclerosis. Her second book is called Put Your Heart in Your Mouth: What Really is Heart Disease and What We Can Do to Prevent and Even Reverse It. Dr. Campbell-McBride is a keynote speaker at many professional conferences and seminars around the world. She frequently gives talks to health practitioners, patient groups, and associations. She is a member of the Society of Authors and a regular contributing health editor to a number of magazines and newsletters. Dr. Campbell-McBride, thank you so much for participating in The Microbiome Summit. Dr. Campbell-McBride: I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Dr. Kellman: So tell us a little bit, Dr. Natasha, about your personal story. Obviously your background of being an expert in nutrition and in medicine and a masters in neurology certainly explains how you had these great insights. But if you could tell us a little bit about your personal story that may have contributed to your great contribution in medicine. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Just like many other mainstream doctors, I have got interested in the gut because of illness in my family. My first child was diagnosed autistic at the age of three, and that threw me into a very steep learning curve. I quickly discovered that my own profession had nothing to offer for my child. And the result of that search and that learning curve is that now I have a very healthy young one who is at university and not autistic at all. He has fully recovered. And having learned an awful lot by treating my own child, I started applying the same things in my clinic. And I worked with thousands of autistic children around the world. And the more I work with this particular group, the more I realize that the other members of the family are not healthy either, that their


siblings have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, dyslexia, dyspraxia, various other learning problems and behavioral problems, plus digestive problems plus eczema plus asthma plus allergies plus chronic cystitis and many physical problems as well. And not only siblings but the mother and the father are also ill. The parents usually were affected by digestive disorders, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, psoriasis, again, eczema, allergies, migraines, depression, and all sorts of other problems. But I knew before I started treating my own child because I come from a country where microbiome has been researched since very early '90's. I knew about it very well, and I knew that the root of the disorder in all these people must be in their digestive system because vast majority of children with autism that I was working with at that stage had serious digestive disorders, sometimes so severe that before the parents even start talking about their autism, they would talk first about the child's diarrhea or constipation or abdominal pain or reflux or regular vomiting or something else that is going on in the digestive system. I knew that all these digestive disorders are due to abnormalities in the gut flora of the child. Dr. Kellman: Also known as the microbiome. Dr. Campbell-McBride: That's the new term. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Because the Western science started researching gut flora only recently, and they gave it this name "microbiome." But we knew about gut flora for about 100 years now. It has been researched in other countries around the world, and a lot of information was available already before the Western science started to pay attention to it. So the recent research has discovered that about 90% of all cells in human body is our gut flora. 90%! So your body is just 10%. It's a shell, a habitat, for this mass of microbes which live inside us. And it isn't just bacteria that live


there. It is a mixture just as complex as life on earth itself. We have all sorts of life forms living alongside each other inside our gut—bacteria, viruses, fungi, protozoa, worms, flukes, and God knows what else. And these things in a healthy person with a healthy gut flora live in a huge diversity. There's an enormous diversity of trillions of different creatures and species living alongside each other, planting each other, harvesting each other, eating each other, controlling each other, and cooperating with each other. And none of them are surplus to requirement. They are all important no matter how big their number might be, how small their number might be. We have a lot of research now to show that we have beneficial fungi in there, which are absolutely essential for human health. And we have beneficial amoebas and beneficial protozoa. And research is mounting to show that we have many beneficial worms inside the digestive system, that we cannot be healthy without them. They have to be there. They are part of the gut flora. So this mixture, the diversity is the word. The diversity is the most important thing. Trouble is since we've discovered antibiotics during the second World War, humanity have been regularly reducing that diversity in the gut flora of our bodies. Every course of antibiotics, particularly broad-spectrum antibiotics, wipes out the beneficial bacteria in the gut. This beneficial bacteria control fungi. They control protozoa. They control many other species of microbes in the gut. And when they're wiped out by a course of antibiotics, all those species suddenly get out of control, overgrow, occupy a new niche in the digestive system, establish themselves, and that is an imbalance. The beneficial species of bacteria do recover after an antibiotic, particularly short course of antibiotic. But it takes them between two weeks to two months to recover. And that's a window of opportunity for those other species of microbes to grow and to get out of control. And once they've overgrown and once they've established themselves, our recover in beneficial bacteria have a fight on their hands and they can't get rid of them.


So from every course of antibiotic to the next course of antibiotic and to the next course of antibiotic, you have less and less of balance, less and less of good in your digestive system and more and more of pathogenic species of microbes. There is an imbalance in there and lack of diversity in there. And as a result, your gut flora becomes sick. Our gut flora fulfills a myriad of functions for us. And if somebody when they decided to sterilize human gut, we probably wouldn't survive. We simply cannot live with this mass of microbes inside us. We cannot digest and absorb food without their involvement. We simply cannot. They play a huge part in appropriate digestion and absorption of food. So when your gut flora's damaged, you’re not digesting your food well, no matter how high quality your diet is. Dr. Kellman: You're not absorbing. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Exactly. You're not digesting it. You're not absorbing it. And you’re developing multiple nutritional deficiencies as a result. At the same time, our beneficial flora produce a whole host of nutrients for us. The whole group of vitamins, for example, the main and quite often the only source of this vitamins for a human being is our own gut flora- B1, B2, B3, B6, B12, pantothenic acid, folate, and all the other B vitamins. Without them we simply cannot live. We need them all the time. That is why Mother Nature provided us with our own little factory inside our digestive system, which is constantly manufacturing these vitamins for us and releasing them in the right amounts into the blood stream. On top of that, there's vitamin K2 that was discovered recently that is produced by the gut flora. Without this vitamin, your body cannot handle minerals properly, particularly calcium. If you don't have enough vitamin K2 produced in your gut flora, then calcium will be settling in your soft tissues, in your blood vessels, in your brain. You will be forming gallstones, kidney stones, and other problems in your body while calcium was not going into


your bones and your teeth where it is supposed to go. And you're developing osteoporosis and tooth decay. Only returning vitamin K2 to your body can normalize that situation. And your major source of that and almost the only source of that is your own gut flora. Dr. Kellman: And, Dr. Natasha, if you don't mind, let me point out to our audience, especially today because so many people are taking vitamin D and they're not getting the appropriate amount of K2, one, because they're not taking it as a supplement with their vitamin D and because their microbiome is unhealthy. And therefore the vitamin D could be a double-edged sword. It could be potentially hurting people. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Exactly. We don't know everything about vitamin D yet. In fact, we know very little. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: And we try to treat people based on this little knowledge. And there is a good saying, an old folklore saying in Britain, that little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge at all. And indeed that's what's happening with vitamin D situation. Dr. Kellman: Absolutely. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Yeah, vitamin K2 traditionally was obtained from fermented foods. Dr. Kellman: That's right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: In the East people fermented soil. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: That's where they got their vitamin D. They fermented


vegetables, fish, and other substances. In the West, it's usually come from high fat, natural, well-fermented cheeses. So French cheese, Italian cheese, other soft, high fat cheeses will provide you with a good amount of vitamin K2 if your gut flora is unable to do that. But let's continue with the gut flora. Dr. Kellman: Sure. Dr. Campbell-McBride: When the gut flora is damaged, the pathogenic species of microbes and other microbes overgrow in the digestive system, and they damage the integrity of the gut wall. They make your gut wall leaky (porous). And as a result, food doesn't get the chance to be digested properly before it absorbs. Dr. Kellman: Especially zinc. Especially zinc. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Zinc is only one mineral. But it's proteins. Dr. Kellman: Proteins too. Okay. Take notes, folks. Dr. Campbell-McBride: So protein is absorbed and digested, and when they absorb in that form into your bloodstream and your immune system finds them, they look at them and say, "You're not food. I don't recognize you as food. You must be some virus that got in." And your immune system starts developing antibodies against these proteins. Developing antibodies takes a couple of months. In the meantime, what the body will do it would attach other known non-specific complexes to these undigested proteins in your body and launch inflammation. And whatever these complexes get to in your body, they will cause symptoms. These symptoms can range any kind of symptoms under the sun, can be a panic attack, can be a drop in your blood sugar level, drop in your energy level, can be a skin rash, can be cystitis, can be a nephropathy, can be a migraine attack, can be a headache, can be an asthma attack, can be anything. And the reaction can be immediate or delayed.


So on any given day you have no idea what you're reacting to. And these reactions are called food allergy or intolerances now. You can be reacting to a piece of lamb you've just eaten for lunch plus a banana you've eaten yesterday plus eggs you've eaten a few days ago and plus something else you've eaten two weeks ago. All these reactions overlap on top of each other. So people have no idea what they're reacting to on any given day. There are many laboratories set up now around the world to test for food allergies and intolerances, and they give you results. And people start removing foods out of their diet according to these tests. And they remove food, and they remove food. And many of them finish up with virtually nothing left to eat. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: And they're still reacting. Dr. Kellman: Because they're not addressing the core problem. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Exactly. Because as long as your gut is like a sieve, you're absorbing everything you eat undigested, all proteins absorbed undigested. Dr. Kellman: Let's emphasize that this could certainly contribute to depression and anxiety and even neurodegenerative disorders. Dr. Campbell-McBride: All sorts of problems, any kind of symptom in the body can be produced by these food allergies and intolerances. So instead of doing the testing, instead of removing foods and trying to avoid foods, what we need to focus on is on healing and sealing the gut wall. Dr. Kellman: Okay. So, Dr. Natasha, so you wrote the GAPS diet, and that addresses these issues. Can you expound on that?


Dr. Campbell-McBride: GAPS diet was developed through my work in the clinic and initially through my work with my own child who has recovered. And what it does it does heal and seal the gut wall. It closes up all those holes in the gut wall. And it rebuilds new layers of cells, epithethial cells on the gut lining which heal and seal the gut, and it changes the gut flora. It normalizes it. It normalizes digestion and absorption of food. And most importantly, what happens it stops a river of toxicity flowing from the gut into your bloodstream and being distributed around the body because in a person with abnormal gut flora, your gut wall is damaged. Your gut is populated by pathogenic microbes. They are converting food into a myriad of very poisonous toxic chemicals. And all these chemicals absorb into your bloodstream and get distributed around the body. Whatever they get to in your body they cause symptoms. If they get into your brain, they will cause any plethora symptoms that your particular brain can produce. It can be depression. It can be anxiety. It can be psychosis. It can be memory lapses. It can be something mild like swinging in your moods and irritability and crankiness and inability to focus and inability to learn and poor sleep and any kind of symptom. Dr. Kellman: And lack of vitality. People are walking around with a sense of vitality and purpose. Athat also relates to what's going in the gut. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Other toxins may get to other systems and other organs in your body. If a particular toxin likes to get into your lungs because it's structure is compatible with the structure of lungs, you will get asthma or you will get emphysema or you will get some other lung disease. If this particular toxin likes to target your kidneys, you will get nephropathy. If it likes to target your skin, you will get psoriasis or eczema or some other strange rashes and itchy reactions or photosensitivity in your skin. If it gets into your urine, then you can get chronic cystitis because once these toxins circulates it around your body, they have to leave the body somehow.


Dr. Kellman: That's right. And so you could virtually affect every aspect of our physiology, every symptom that any of our listeners may be having is very likely related to what's going on in the gut and the microbiome, which is just fascinating. Dr. Natasha, what is it about the GAPS Diet specifically that is the core reason why it's helping to heal the gut and microbiome? Dr. Campbell-McBride: GAPS nutritional protocol is not just a diet. It is a program. It has three parts to it. Dr. Kellman: Okay. Dr. Campbell-McBride: The diet, the GAPS diet, which is the most important part because these are digestive disorders we're dealing with. All disease begins in the gut without doubt. And this is a digestive disorder we're dealing with. All your digestive system is a long tube. What you fill that tube with has a direct effect on its wellbeing. So diet is the most important. Dr. Kellman: And tell us about the diet. What's unique and special about the GAPS diet that's improving these issues? Like three points about it. Dr. Campbell-McBride: That's right. Yes, what we do about it, we remove all the foods that are difficult to digest and which feed pathogens in the digestive system. Dr. Kellman: Okay, so give us an example please. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Yes, we leave only foods which are easy to digest and which are most smoothing and healing for the gut wall and which provide all the building blocks to seal the gut, to seal all those holes because in order to seal them, building materials are required. The body needs bricks and mortar, so to speak, to seal those holes. And that's what the GAPS diet will provide in great amounts. And it provides large amounts of beneficial bacteria, beneficial fungi, and other beneficial viruses as well and other beneficial microbes for the digestive


system to drive out pathogens and to re-establish normal, balanced gut flora. Dr. Kellman: So give us an example of some foods. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Without that we can't heal. Dr. Kellman: Sure. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Okay let's look at these three parts. What we remove, all grains whether they're gluten free or not gluten free because it is starch in the grains that we worry about the most. Starch is a very large molecule and fiber as well. Starch is a very large molecule. Under the microscope, it looks like a big bush with many branches. It's very difficult to digest. In fact, more than 70% of all starch that we consume is indigestible for the human digestive system. Cellulose the fiber is indigestible period, almost 100% of it indigestible. What happens with these molecules they go through you not being digested and feeding pathogenic microbes that are perfect food for the pathogenic microbes. And then they land in your bowel which is an equivalent of herbivores animals rumen in the human body because you know that herbivores animals, plant-based animals just as cows and giraffes and so on, they have a very special digestive system with many stomachs called rumen. And that rumen is full of bacteria. And it's bacteria that digest the grass for the cow, not the cow herself. And they convert most of that grass about 70% of it into short chain fatty acids, which are very saturated fatty acids. So the cow is actually on a very high fat diet. The equivalent of the rumen in human beings is our bowel because that's where we have the majority of our gut flora. And when the starch and the fiber go through your digestive system, through all the parts of it which actually absorb food, they eventually land in your bowel and that's where this bacteria will work on them. And they will work the fiber, and they will work the starch.


If you have healthy gut flora, dominated by beneficial species of microbes, they will eat the starch. They will eat the fiber. They will produce all the beneficial substances and make you healthier and make you better. However, if your digestive system is dominated by pathogens, it is those pathogens that will be eating fiber. And they'll be eating starch. And they will grow larger. And they will cause a lot of illness in your body because all microbes, whether they're beneficial or not beneficial, love eating starch, love eating fiber, love eating sugars. So carbohydrates, all complex carbohydrates have to be out for long enough period of time to allow the gut wall to heal itself and to change the gut flora. Dr. Kellman: How long is that? How long of a period of time? Dr. Campbell-McBride: On average just two years. However, it depends on the severity of the condition. It can be much longer. Dr. Kellman: And does this include, Dr. Natasha, quinoa and rice? Dr. Campbell-McBride: All grains. All grains. Dr. Kellman: All rice and all quinoa should be eliminated. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Buckwheat, millet, quinoa, amaranth, couscous- all grains, plus all starchy vegetables (potato family) have to be out. And parsnips have to be out. Double sugars have to be out such as lactose in milk. So we cannot drink milk, no matter how high quality it is. But if we ferment milk at home, once you ferment it for twenty-four hours, the bacteria, the fermented bacteria lactobacilli in the milk will consume all the sugars in the milk. So that is a truly lactose-free dairy product. And also the fermentation pre-digests the food for us. The bacteria will break down milk, break down casein, break down albumin and other proteins in the milk so the


resulting product yogurt kefir or cheese, homemade cheese, or sour cream is pre-digested. It's easy for your digestive system to handle. It's teeming with beneficial bacteria, with active enzymes and other things. And that is an important part of our GAPS nutritional protocol. Other fermented foods are very important as well—fermented vegetables—some will ferment fish and will ferment beans and will ferment other things. Dr. Kellman: What about beans by itself? Could people if they soak beans could people eat beans on your diet in moderation? Dr. Campbell-McBride: We introduce only one variety of beans and that's navy beans or haricot beans because their composition is not tolerable to the damaged digestive system of the person. But these beans also need to be introduced quite a bit later in the diet. Dr. Kellman: Now, what about microbiome-friendly foods like jicama and Jerusalem artichokes that I write about in my book The Microbiome Diet? What are your thoughts about introducing those foods even from the get go? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Because these foods contain oligofructosaccharides and other short chain carbohydrates which are a perfect food for all microbes, the good and the bad, if your gut is populated by the good microbes, they'll do you a lot of good because it's this good bacteria that will be feasting on them and growing stronger and bigger, making you healthy. But if your gut is populated by pathogens, it's those pathogens who will feast on those substances, on all prebiotics. So prebiotics are not allowed on the GAPS nutritional protocol until your gut flora has healed itself, until it is much stronger. And then perhaps you can slowly begin to reintroduce these things. The beauty of GAPS diet is that you don't have to be on it for life. You just invest a couple of years or longer into healing your digestive system and normalizing restoring your gut flora. Once that happens, you can reintroduce


anything you like back into your diet including gluten, including pasta, bread, and anything you like. Dr. Kellman: Now, with certain vegetables that contain let's say inulin or arabinogalactans let's say jicama or let's say radishes, what are your thoughts about those foods? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Radishes are allowed on the GAPS nutritional protocol. Dr. Kellman: Okay, that's a microbiome-friendly food. I mean that helps the friendly bacteria proliferate. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Well, all vegetables and fruit are microbiome-friendly foods. Dr. Kellman: That's true. That's true. Dr. Campbell-McBride: They are all of them. Both contain substances. The fact that the research in microscopic proportion of these substances doesn't mean that that's all there is. The research never knows everything. Dr. Kellman: Sure, of course. Now what about Jerusalem artichokes and jicama? What are you thoughts about those foods? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Jerusalem artichokes are not allowed because they're starchy. Dr. Kellman: And jicama? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Yes, I'm not familiar with this particular. Dr. Kellman: Okay, now let's turn our attention, Dr. Natasha, if it's okay about how the GAPS diet could specifically help people with depression and


anxiety and stress and poor memory. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Okay, let's talk about gut and psychology syndrome because GAPS has two aspects to it: gut and psychology syndrome and gut and physiology syndrome. Thankfully in the English language both abbreviate to the same GAPS. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: So wherever this river of toxicity, undigested foods and alive microbes that is flowing from your damaged gut and your damaged gut flora into your bloodstream, into your lymph and being distributed around the body, wherever this river gets to, it will cause a disease. So your rheumatoid arthritis, your multiple sclerosis, your psoriasis, your chronic cystitis, your headaches, your neuropathy, your Guillain-Barre, your amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, your lupus, and many of other diseases are born in your digestive system. Dr. Kellman: Neurodegenerative disorders. Let's say Alzheimer's or Lewy Body diseases. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Absolutely. Everything comes from there, but with the Alzheimer's disease, we need to keep in mind also the metabolic syndrome because of the major cause of Alzheimer's disease is sugar, as simple as that. Consumption of sugar. Your breakfast cereal, your toast with jam that all these elderly people are living on, your sandwiches, your pasta, your biscuits, your cakes, your crackers and so on, a lot of sugary things. That's what happens because with Alzheimer's disease, these sugars attach themselves to hemoglobulin in the bloodstream and other proteins like glycosylating them. And this glycosylated proteins are very sticky. When they get into small capillary beds in your body, they block them up and accumulate. It's a nasty substance. Dr. Kellman: Sure.


Dr. Campbell-McBride: Called amyloid. And that's the cause of Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease and blindness in these people and many complications of diabetes. Dr. Kellman: The GAPS diet will be beneficial in that regard as well to a large degree. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Absolutely. GAPS diet removes metabolic syndrome. Dr. Kellman: Of course. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Because we have no processed carbohydrates. We have no sugar in there. We have very little carbohydrates altogether. And they are very natural. Dr. Kellman: So let's get back to we have patients with depression and anxiety and poor memory issues. So tell us a little bit about how the GAPS will help them. And do you tailor the diet a little bit for specific disorders? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Absolutely. The diet has to be tailored for every individual because every human being is a unique person, unique individual. And they have to tailor their diet for themselves meal by meal, not even day by day, not even stage by stage, but meal by meal. And we do teach people how to do that, and we teach them how to balance their diet themselves, how to get the right proportions of meat to vegetables, for example, in every meal and how to work with their body. Dr. Kellman: Now, why is that important, the right proportion between protein and vegetables on the GAPS diet? Dr. Campbell-McBride: It is important for all of us, not only on the GAPS diet, for every human being. Dr. Kellman: Tell us why.


Dr. Campbell-McBride: Because I have an article called "One Man's Meat is Another Man's Poison" on my blog, DrNatasha.com, which explains this subject very in great detail, but I will go through it quickly here. Every human being is unique on our planet. We all have a unique metabolism, unique genetic makeup, unique ancestry. And your metabolism changes all the time, every minute it changes. It juggles many, many parameters. Your body holds many parameters up in the air. Your sympathetic/parasympathetic balance, your pH in the body, your electrolyte balance, and many, many other balances. And they change, depending on what you're doing, depending on your age, depending on the weather, on the season, on whether you're tired or whether you're rested and many, many other parameters. And every metabolic state requires a certain set of nutrients. So no doctor and no nutritionist in the world can dictate to you what you should have for breakfast, what you should have for lunch, what you should have for dinner and in what proportions. Only your body knows what it requires at every minute of your existence. So if your body needs at this particular moment so much protein and so much carbohydrates, so much zinc, so much B12, how is your body going to let you know that? And even if your body had a way of giving you this information, how are you going to go and accomplish that particular meal for your body? Well, Mother Nature is kind. It doesn't ask us to do anything so complicated. It gave us answers. It gave us desire for food, a sense of smell, a sense of taste, and a sense of satisfaction from food. People need to get back in touch with those senses. So if at any moment, if you wake up in the morning, you have some time for breakfast, ask yourself a simple question, what would I care for right now? What would be the best thing in the world that I would love to eat right now? And that's what will smell divine to you and it will taste divine to you and you


will be satisfied. You will not have any cravings after that food, and you will not want something else. And you can forget about food for a while. Couple of hours of later, your metabolism has changed. It moved on. And the food that satisfied you two hours ago will feel repulsive to you. You will want something very different and in different proportions. And that would be the right combination for you at that particular moment. People need to get back in touch with their senses, need to learn to work with their body and listen to their body. And when people learn to do that, there will be no problem with metabolic typing, with trying to figure out what diet is good for whom and what kind of diet we all should be on. And we all develop these senses when we're babies. For millennia human beings allowed their babies to develop the senses. And there would be some times when moms got all obsessed about cleanliness and hygiene and all the rest of things. And it's just too much. If you leave a baby to explore the food on its own terms, what do babies do? They eat with their hands. And they smear the food all over their faces because they look at the food and they listen to the sound of food on their fingers. And then they smell the food. And then they taste the food. And once they've swallowed it, their body gives them a feedback on how the tongue is responding to that food. How is the immune system responding to that food? How is the brain responding to that food? How is the rest of the body responding? Children attune very well to all these signals. All senses need to be involved in introducing solids into a toddler's or a baby's diet. All senses. So mothers who are all very concerned about keeping things clean and not allowing children to touch food and get messy with the food are actually doing their children a great disservice. They do not allow their children to develop normal relationship with food. And that is the most fundamental cornerstone of personality of that child. Children who are allowed to develop their senses, to develop normal, proper


relationship with food are usually sunny, happy personalities. They have a much more positive attitude to life. And they're really different individuals. Children who were stifled in that area and were not allowed to develop those senses, usually become clingy and unhappy and cranky and so on and have inappropriate relationship with food. So that's where it all begins. Many people, many adults in our world would have grown up without ever developing normal relationship to food so they have to work on that area. Dr. Kellman: Give us some suggestions and tips if someone becomes so desensitized to the natural feedback and cues from our bodies, what could we do to become more sensitized to these signals? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Start with the GAPS introduction diet. Dr. Kellman: Okay. Dr. Campbell-McBride: GAPS diet is divided into three parts. There's a GAPS introduction diet, then the full GAPS diet, and then the happy stage of coming off, the one when you're healed. Start with the GAPS introduction diet. It will remove cravings. It will remove dependencies because we're all addicted to foods. Foods are addictive, particularly grains, particularly carbohydrates. Dr. Kellman: Absolutely. Dr. Campbell-McBride: And sugar is more addictive than morphine. Dr. Kellman: That's right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: As a drug. So people it will remove those cravings and addictions very quickly. It will normalize your zinc status in the body because without zinc you can't Dr. Kellman: Yes. Yes. And what is it, Dr. Natasha, what is it about the GAPS


intro that really helps us get in touch? Are there specific foods that are creating that great effect? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Absolutely. Dr. Kellman: Which ones? Dr. Campbell-McBride: GAPS introduction diet is structured in six stages. Dr. Kellman: Okay. Dr. Campbell-McBride: And we start with stage one where we have foods which are the easiest to digest and which have the most healing to the gut wall. So that is soup for breakfast, soup for lunch, soup for dinner, and soup in between. So the cornerstone of it is meat stock. Meat stock, not bone broth, please. Read my book. I detail it carefully Meat stock. So what does meat stock provide? It provides all those bricks and mortar required for your gut lining to heal and seal itself to build new layers of very specific, very clever cells which line your gut wall called enterocytes. Every enterocyte only lives a few days. They have a very short life, and they're replaced by newly born, baby enterocytes. Dr. Kellman: Sure. Dr. Campbell-McBride: So the cell regeneration in the gut wall is very, very rapid, and that's wonderful because it gives us a real opportunity to shed off all those sick, damaged enterocytes and replace them with healthy, newborn. Dr. Kellman: You're not eating the meat. You don't need to eat the meat, right? You're just getting the broth from the meat, right? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Of course, you eat the meat. Dr. Kellman: It's not just the broth, in other words. It's not just the broth?


Dr. Campbell-McBride: Yes, absolutely. Dr. Kellman: Oh, okay. Dr. Campbell-McBride: What the well-cooked boiled meats and meat stock and fish stock will provide you with will be protein that is essential, essential fats for the gut lining, for those enterocytes to be made from something and to be born healthy and vibrant and to restore your gut wall integrity. The kind of meats that we focus on in the GAPS diet are gelatinous meats. When you say the word "meat" to people in this world, the see steak. They see the muscle of the animal. The muscle of the animal (pure, lean muscle) is the most difficult part of the animal to digest and the least nourishing. The most nourishing parts of the animal are around the joints, around the bones, and in the inner organs of the animal. So what we focus upon in the GAPS diet are joints and bones and bone marrow and tongue and trike and liver and heart and other inner organs and skin of the animal, feet of the pig, head of the pig, skin of the pig, and other such parts of the animals because when we cook them slowly for long time in a pot with water and bitter salt in there, glucosamine is released. Gelatins are released. Collagen is released. It's very rich in collagen. And about quarter or third of all the protein in your body is collagen. We're made out of collagen to a large degree, and it's being destroyed and it's being damaged in your body and you're losing it. Dr. Kellman: I'm sorry. So that's the first part of the GAPS. And then when do you start transitioning into the second part? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Apart of the meat stock and boiled meats and fish, we have fermented foods on the first stage and we have well-cooked, non-fibrous vegetables, not starch vegetables. Dr. Kellman: Give us an example, please.


Dr. Campbell-McBride: Well, all the other vegetables apart from the potato family, yams, Jerusalem artichokes, and parsnips. So leeks, onions, carrots, cabbages, broccoli, cauliflower, the whole lot of vegetables. Dr. Kellman: Okay, beautiful. Dr. Campbell-McBride: We focus on squashes and marrows and corchetes, zucchini. So all these kind of vegetables we start with. The person stays in the first stage until their more severe digestive symptoms disappear. And then deep on the first stage they will vanish. Your diarrhea will stop. You'll start producing very good looking stools. Your pain in the digestive system, the gas, and the burping and belching and reflux, indigestion. Dr. Kellman: And the bloating and the bloating and the… Dr. Campbell-McBride: Bloating all will stop. Then you will introduce second stage when we add next food, which is a little more difficult to digest. But by then your gut will accomplish certain amount of healing, and you will be ready for that food to be introduced. So introducing eggs and introducing more vegetables. We're introducing more fermented vegetables there. Then we move into the third stage when we introduce another lot of foods which are more difficult to digest. But having been through the first two stages, enough healing happened in your gut. And you're ready for that. You can now handle those foods. Going through the introduction diet is like a dance: step forward, step back, step forward, step back. So a person might have been on the first stage for a few days then they moved into the second. And symptoms that disappeared on the first stage come back. That means you're not ready. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: You have to go back to the first stage, achieve more


healing with the first stage, and then try to move into the second stage again. If nothing happens, if none of your benefits that you've gained on the first stage have disappeared, you're ready. Hooray! You can be in the second stage now. Dr. Kellman: At what point would people start seeing some improvement in their depression and anxiety? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Oh very soon. Dr. Kellman: Oh Dr. Campbell-McBride: Very, very soon. But depression and anxiety, what causes these? That river of toxicity pouring through your gut wall gets into your brain and clogs it with toxicity. As a result, your brain cannot function appropriately. Every individual brain will produce its own individual mixture of symptoms. In some person it will be more anxiety. In another person it will more depression. In another person it will hallucinations or nightmares or panic attacks or something else. So it is very, very unique and individual. So GAPS nutritional protocol will heal and seal your gut wall and stop that river of toxicity on your body and your brain. Another thing that develops in a couple of months of having damaged gut is autoimmunity because if these undigested proteins keep coming in, your immune system will start developing antibodies against them. And many of these antibodies then will find proteins which is similar in your brain and attack your brain. So in the person with any mental illness, the brain is under autoimmune attack whether it has been tested or identified or not, you can presume that you have an autoimmune component. And it will take your immune system to scale that back and to remove that. And that will happen only after your gut


wall has healed and sealed and those proteins stopped coming in undigested. And that takes time. A third part of it all is lack of neurotransmitters. What is depression? Not enough serotonin, not enough dopamine, not enough GABA. These major three neurotransmitters. Serotonin is a happy neurotransmitter. That's what keeps us relaxed and happy and content on our life. Dopamine is motivational neurotransmitter. It's something that is up and go which lets us get out of bed in the morning, brush our teeth, brush our hair, get dressed, go and conquer the world. And GABA is something that keeps us balanced in the right balance. And all of these neurotransmitters are manufactured in the digestive system. Almost 100% of them. And then they are transported to the brain to be used by the brain. We're dealing with a digestive disorder in the GAPS person. Their digestive system is in a disarray, in a terrible state. It cannot produce serotonin. It cannot produce dopamine. It cannot produce GABA. As a result, the person is deficient in these substances. The brain's not receiving it. Again, it will take time for the person to heal their gut enough so it starts manufacturing the substances and delivering them to the brain. So you have to be patient. But the important part that people with these disorders need to do, with mental disorders, is to have a high fat content in their diet, animal fat and focusing on animal fats, not plant fats. We want pork fat. We want beef fat. We want lamb fat. We want goose fat. We want duck fat. We want sour cream. And we want butter. And we want ghee. Dr. Kellman: Dr. Natasha, is there any role for supplements in your mindset? Dr. Campbell-McBride: That is the second part of the GAPS nutritional protocol—supplements. We keep supplements to a bare minimum. In fact, in the initial stages all we use is foods we're eating which is supplements. We use probiotics. We use cod liver oil, which supplies vitamin D and vitamin K2 and vitamin A. We use fish oils. In a select group of people, we use multi-mineral, multi-amino acid supplement. And in a select group of people we may use


some digestive enzymes. But for everybody I prescribe just probiotics, cod liver oil, and fish oils with a little bit of probiotics, also. Dr. Kellman: Is there a particular type of probiotic that you recommend? Dr. Campbell-McBride: You want probiotics with as many species of bacteria as we can find. Dr. Kellman: Okay and do you recommend taking glutamine as a supplement? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Not necessarily because when it comes as a single molecule, isolated it from soya in the supplements, in many people it aggravates excitotoxins in the brain because glutamic acid is an excitotoxin. Dr. Kellman: In some people, sure. Sure. Dr. Campbell-McBride: That's right. Many people as a result develop also some unpleasant mental symptoms and reactions to histamine-containing foods. They become histamine intolerant because of glutamine. So we have to be very careful with that. Meat stock and soups that we're having on the first stage and all throughout the GAPS treatment— Dr. Kellman: Is the best answer. Dr. Campbell-McBride: They'll provide you with huge amounts of glutamic acid and glutamine. But in a food form and in the balanced composition with all other neurotransmitters and all other amino acids and minerals and all sorts of other nutrients, your body has been designed by Mother Nature to get nutrients in the food form not from pills. Dr. Kellman: Sure. Now, for specific mental disorders—anxiety, depression, let's say even neurodegenerative disorders—would you recommend some specific supplements in that category?


Dr. Campbell-McBride: It depends on the state of the digestive system of the person. Quite a few GAPS people will tell you that I have no digestive symptoms or they're very mild. No diarrhea. No constipation. No pain. No bloating. No reflux and so on. And these people quite often question, am I a GAPS person at all? But they are because the human body has a wonderful ability to compensate for problems. We all are born with strong points in our constitution and weak points in our constitution. And if your digestive system was a strong point in your constitution, you can have a very abnormal gut flora, very damaged gut wall, a lot absorbing through that gut wall, but have no digestive symptoms because your gut is compensating. One can have cancer in their body for twenty years and have no symptoms until the first symptom develops because the body works around that cancer and compensates. So these are the people who benefit from testing. If they don't believe, if they're non believers to see what their compositional gut flora is and that what is reaching through their gut wall. Dr. Kellman: What test would you recommend? Dr. Campbell-McBride: People who don't have severe digestive symptoms, we can use supplements right from the beginning to provide them with precursors with building blocks of serotonin, dopamine, and GABA. But many companies around the world now who manufacture these supplements. Serotonin is manufactured from tryptophan with many co factors with some vitamins and some minerals in the same capsule. And they work. They work, and they can be very, very helpful. So they will boost your production of serotonin in the body and allow you to come off antidepressants and alleviate the depressive symptoms quicker. For dopamine we need fennel onion and tyrosine. There are supplements like that on the market. Many companies do that, again with co-factors. And for GABA we need theanine and gamma-aminobutyric acid and other


amino acids, again with co-factors. So those supplements can be very, very helpful to these group of people if they don't have severe digestive symptoms. Dr. Kellman: Sure, sure. Now, Dr. Natasha, look, you're dealing with an autistic kid, a child, and the parents the mother wants pretty quick responses to say to the mom, “This could take a year,” what kind of responses do you get? And do you see results even in a shorter period of time in autistic children, for example? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Absolutely. Of course. Of course. Dr. Kellman: Oh, good. I want people to know that. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Yes, majority of these people recover without supplements. Dr. Kellman: So many times I have patients who come to see me with neurodegenerative disorders. And the doctors are saying, “There's nothing that can be done at this point.” There's severe Alzheimer's. There's Lewy Body disease. Do you believe, even in such a situation, there is hope and the potential to see some reversal? Dr. Campbell-McBride: I don't believe in hopeless situations. I believe that there is no human being here in this world beyond help. Dr. Kellman: Beautiful. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Everybody can be helped no matter at what stage the person is. They may not recover if it is an advanced Alzheimer's disease. The person may not regain the memory they've lost. But they will arrest the process. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: We will arrest it, and it will stop. It will stop getting


worse, and it will stop developing. And at that point, if you put some educational into the person, they can relearn things they've forgotten. Dr. Kellman: Right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: And with autism, I have many adults with autism in wheelchair, thirty-five year olds, forty-seven year old individuals who are severely autistic. They're non-verbal. They're in their wheelchair. They're not toilet trained. So their nappy has to be changed several times a day. And these people what you have to understand with these people, same with Down's syndrome severe and Rett syndrome and cerebral palsy and other very severe individuals, they're in pain. They're in constant pain, these people. Their tummy hurts. Their head hurts, their joints, their muscles. Everything hurts in their body. And because of this pain, their behaviors and misbehaviors come. Difficulty to look after this, but that's why they lash out. That's why they're aggressive. That's why the screeching. That's why they're smearing. That's why they're doing all of these other terrible things. Once you put them on the GAPS nutritional protocol and what I recommend for these people to keep them permanently on the second stage of the introduction diet because these people really don't know what they're eating. They don't have preferences. So keep them on the second stage. They will get all the nutrients necessary for them to be healthy and well. And pain goes. As soon as the pain is gone, this person feels comfortable and happy within themselves. And they become content. And they're much easier to look after these people. And I had a number of these people in their thirties and forties who got toilet trained, and that is a huge thing for carers. Dr. Kellman: That's right. Dr. Campbell-McBride: Of course, this person will not recover from Down's


Syndrome or from autism. Of course, they'll continue being autistic. But it will be a very different person. And it will be much easier to look after. Dr. Kellman: Dr. Natasha, this is really wonderful way to end with brightness and optimism and heart. And really I'm very fond of you and your work. And thank you for making such a great humanistic contribution and God bless you. So we need to wrap up. How do people find you? How do they stay connected to you? What are the resources they should know about? Dr. Campbell-McBride: Absolutely. On my website GAPS.me, there is a button saying "Find a GAPS practitioner.” If you click on that button, you will find best part 1,000 certified GAPS practitioners that I have trained personally. I have been training people for several years now. We choose them very carefully. We choose very good practitioners, health practitioners. And you will find a practitioner near you, in your area, in your country, in your state. If you don't, then many practitioners work by phone and by Skype. So they will guide you through the GAPS nutritional protocol holding your hand. That is a great resource. Apart from that there is another book called GAPS Stories. Please read that book to get some hope and to get inspiration and to get in touch with people who cured the same condition you might be struggling with. I have been receiving letters and emails from GAPS people from all over the world for years, people that just bought the book, didn't have any consultations with anybody, just followed the advice in the book and healed themselves. And the list of conditions that these people healed from is huge starting with chronic fatigue syndrome and multiple sclerosis and fibromyalgia and narcolepsy and various forms of neuropathy and schizophrenia and autism and Panner’s and who knows what else. I have contacted all these people, got their information and published their letters as a book. And this book is called GAPS Stories. You will find it on my blog. And many people of these people provided their contact details. They are happy to contacted for people who are


in the same boat and who are trying to heal and need some support. Dr. Kellman: Well, thank you so much, Dr. Natasha. And thank you so much for being part of this summit. And it was such a pleasure speaking with you. And I'm sure we'll continue our conversation. For all of you listening, thank you again for joining =the Microbiome Medicine Summit. According to research, we are mostly bacterial cells that govern our health. These bacteria actually outnumber our human cells ten to one so we must learn to take care of microbiome. So with this information we can tap into their power to heal us. Please, please, please take this groundbreaking, revolutionary information home with you by clicking on the banner beside or below and be sure to share with your family and friends. This Dr. Raphael Kellman, and I wish all of you an abundant and healthy life. Thank you for being part of this microbiome revolution.


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Dr. Kellman: Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Raphaelmicrobiomemedicinesummit.com.s3.amazonaws.com/transcripts/Natasha...have many beneficial worms inside the digestive system, that we cannot