Deputy X19 - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

George Ratayczak, March 13, 2014Paul Murphy v. Whatcom County

3206 Wetmore Avenue, Suite 12 - Everett, Washington 98201BMA Court Reporters, (425) 252.7277

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7 UNITED STATES OF DISTRICT COURT

8 WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON AT SEATTLE

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10 PAUL MURPHY, together with his ) marital community, )

11 Plaintiffs, ) )

12 vs. ) NO. 2:13-CV-00727 )

13 WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON, a ) government entity; WHATCOM COUNTY )

14 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT; WILLIAM J. ) ELFO, together with his marital )

15 community, ) Defendants. )

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17 DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF

18 GEORGE RATAYCZAK

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20 10:20AM - 10:50 March 13, 2014

21 Whatcom County Courthouse 311 Grand Avenue

22 Bellingham, Washington 98225

23 Reported by Kristen M. Uhlig

24 Certified Court Reporter, CCR, CSR Washington CCR #1934

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

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3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS:Robert Butler

4 Law Offices of Robert Butler103 East Holly Street Suite 512

5 Bellingham, Washington 98225360.734.3448

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7 FOR THE DEFENDANTS WHATCOM COUNTY & SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT & ELFODale Kamerrer

8 Law Lyman Daniel Kamerrer Bogdanovich2674 RW Johnson Blvd SW

9 Tumwater, Washington 98512360.754.3480

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11 FOR WHATCOM COUNTY:Elizabeth Gallery

12 Whatcom County Prosecutor's Office311 Grand Avenue

13 Bellingham, Washington 98225

14ALSO PRESENT:

15 William ElfoTara Adrian-Stavik

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17 I N D E X

18 EXAMINATION: PAGE

19 BY MR. BUTLER.................................................3

20 BY MR. KAMERRER..............................................15

21 BY MR. BUTLER................................................18

22 BY MR. KAMERRER..............................................19

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24 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE

25 No Exhibits Marked

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1 GEORGE RATAYCZAK,

2 having been first duly sworn, was called as a witness herein and

3 was examined and testified as follows:

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5 DIRECT EXAMINATION

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7 BY MR. BUTLER:

8 Q Good morning. Would you please state your name and spell it

9 for the record?

10 A George Ratayczak. G-E-O-R-G-E R-A-T-A-Y-C-Z-A-K.

11 Q We've asked everybody to spell their name, so it's not just

12 because of --

13 A I'm used to it by now.

14 Q -- all of the letters in yours.

15 A Yes.

16 Q Are you employed?

17 A Yes.

18 Q How are you employed?

19 A Deputy sheriff for the Whatcom County Sheriff's Office.

20 Q How long have you been so employed?

21 A April 3rd will be 24 years.

22 Q What's your rank?

23 A Patrol deputy.

24 Q Are you a part of the guild?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q Have you held any positions with the guild that are either

2 elected or a volunteer capacity with the guild?

3 A No.

4 Q In preparation for today's deposition, did you do anything?

5 Did you review anything, meet with anybody, talk about

6 anything?

7 A No.

8 Q Were you asked to meet with anybody and turn that down?

9 A No. I was asked to meet with Liz Gallery. And with working

10 nights, we were trading phone calls, we just didn't hook up.

11 Q Was any information conveyed to you in the phone tag about your

12 deposition today?

13 A No.

14 Q Do you know why you're here?

15 A Honestly, no.

16 Q Okay. Do you know Paul Murphy?

17 A Yes, I do.

18 Q Did you work with Paul?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Were you aware of Paul's association with the Facebook page

21 Un-Elect Bill Elfo?

22 A I was aware that Paul had Facebook pages and/or websites. I

23 never went to any of them or viewed any of them.

24 Q Fair to say that you are not friends with Paul, not a big fan

25 of Paul's?

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1 A Actually, I like Paul.

2 Q Okay.

3 A We would go out to coffee on shift. We did not hang out after

4 work, just different circles.

5 Q Do you share similar political views?

6 A No.

7 Q And are you aware from -- not from Paul -- we'll get to that in

8 a second. But are you aware from discussions in the workplace,

9 what his political views tend to be?

10 A Specifically, no. But I know that we've talked about different

11 postings that he had put up.

12 Q Okay. And with regards to your conversations with Paul, have

13 you become aware of his political views?

14 A I think that we talked a few times, like, at the gas pumps

15 briefly, but I couldn't tell you what they were about.

16 Q Okay. Were you ever asked to monitor his Facebook page?

17 A No.

18 Q Were you aware that others in the department were asked to

19 monitor his Facebook page and report back to the sheriff?

20 A Was I aware? No.

21 Q With regards to your use of a computer in your capacity, do you

22 use -- in 2012, so not where you're at now -- but in 2012, did

23 you use I believe what's referred to as a Passport or a USB

24 external drive?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q And did you use that to store all of your files and

2 investigations and forms?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Was it your habit to not save anything on the actual computer

5 itself?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And the reason for that was for the portability?

8 A The portability, moving between computers. I used to have

9 thumb drives and when I started carrying three or four of

10 those, it kind of seemed ridiculous. So I moved to a Passport,

11 which had a larger capacity.

12 But I mainly started saving it strictly to there because

13 when I was saving it on my prior computer, the computer crashed

14 and all of the files were gone.

15 Q And that's -- a hardship for the job; correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Are you aware of other employees of the sheriff's department

18 doing similar, whether it's a Passport or a jump drive, similar

19 conduct of keeping their files not on the computer?

20 A Correct. Yes.

21 Q To your knowledge, was that a problem with management?

22 A Not to my knowledge, no.

23 Q Did you keep it a secret? Hide your Passport so that your

24 supervisors didn't see that?

25 A No.

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1 Q Are you aware of anybody else that was doing that that kept it

2 a secret from management so they wouldn't get quote, unquote

3 caught?

4 A Not that I'm aware of, no.

5 Q You attended a SECTOR class in February of 2012. Do you recall

6 that?

7 A I recall the class. I'll take your word on the date.

8 Q Okay. That's fair. After that class, do you recall being

9 contacted by anybody about what happened at the class?

10 A I was interviewed by Inspector Cooley some time after that.

11 Q Did anybody else talk to you between the class and Inspector

12 Cooley's interview?

13 A Paul mentioned it in passing on the road.

14 Q What do you recall that conversation being?

15 A Which one?

16 Q The Paul mentioned it passing on the road.

17 A He asked me if I had gone to the lieutenant.

18 Q Okay.

19 A Or to the staff and said anything about our conversation that

20 we had in class and I told him no.

21 Q Okay.

22 A And that was the extent -- pretty much the extent of the

23 conversation.

24 Q Okay. And you hadn't; correct?

25 A No.

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1 Q Do you recall being in the class?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Okay. Do you recall being in the class and having a discussion

4 or a conversation with Paul and others about the jump drive and

5 the files?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Do you remember him saying anything about cloning a drive?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Okay. Did that alarm you at all?

10 A Personally, yeah. It concerned me.

11 Q Why?

12 A Cloning it, you bring all of the files from the hard drive.

13 Q Okay.

14 A And some of those are, I want to say, restricted files. But

15 passwords and access to the programs brings the whole program

16 that you have on the computer. That belongs to the county and

17 it's not something that I would do.

18 Q Okay. Have you talked to anybody about that? What you just

19 said, what your concern is, anything like that?

20 A No.

21 Q So at the time of the conversation, it didn't cause you to go

22 to the lieutenant; correct?

23 A No.

24 Q And the context of that was in discussing your Passport and

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1 A Yeah. Different ways of doing it.

2 Q Right. And you were talking about different ways of

3 maintaining your files?

4 A Correct.

5 Q Okay. Do you remember in that class, joking about putting

6 Democrat or somebody joking about putting Democrat material on

7 Paul's computer when IT had it in the back of the classroom?

8 A No.

9 Q Do you remember saying that IT could look at yours because

10 there's nothing on it?

11 A Look at mine?

12 Q Yeah. Because you have nothing to hide because there was

13 nothing on it?

14 A Yeah.

15 Q Okay. Because all of yours was on the Passport?

16 A Correct.

17 Q Okay. Do you remember anybody else being in the conversation

18 with you where you were discussing the file maintenance or file

19 storage?

20 A Specifically, no. I know that Paul and I were standing kind of

21 in the middle of the class during a break when we were

22 discussing it. Other people may have chimed in with comments

23 here and there. But specifically do I remember who they were

24 or what they said? No.

25 Q Was this an intimate and serious class and discussion during

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1 the break? Or were people in a pretty good mood and laughing

2 about stuff?

3 A Pretty good mood and laughing about things.

4 Q Have you had an opportunity to work with Jeremy Freeman?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And in that context, have you had an opportunity to develop an

7 opinion regarding his credibility and truthfulness?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And what is that opinion?

10 A I don't have any credibility issues with Jeremy.

11 Q Okay. Have you had an opportunity to work with and know

12 Sergeant Flynn?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Have you had an opportunity to form an opinion regarding his

15 credibility and truthfulness?

16 A Yeah. The same. I have never had any credibility issues with

17 Sergeant Flynn.

18 Q Okay. Have you had an opportunity to know and work with Steve

19 Roff?

20 A Some, yes.

21 Q Have you had an opportunity to form an opinion as to his


23 A I have never had any issues with Steve.

24 Q Have you had opportunity to know and work with Steve Harris?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q Have you had an opportunity to develop an opinion as to his


3 A I never had any credibility issues with Steve either.

4 Q Okay. Have you had an opportunity to know and work with Kevin

5 Mede?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Have you been able to form an opinion as to his credibility and

8 truthfulness?

9 A I personally haven't had any credibility issues with Sergeant

10 Mede either.

11 Q Do you know Beth Larson from work?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Did you have an opportunity to form an opinion as to her


15 A Yeah. I personally haven't had any issues with her as well.

16 Q Do you know Jeff Parks?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Have you had an opportunity to form an opinion as to his


20 A I cannot say that he's ever lied to me that I'm aware of, but I

21 do have credibility issues with Jeff Parks.

22 Q Can you explain why? That -- I mean, the record just writes

23 down the words, they don't have a time. That was the biggest

24 gap between question and answer of all of these people.

25 A Right.

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1 MR. KAMERRER: Well, I object. That misstates the

2 record.

3 Q (By Mr. Butler) Okay. Would you agree with me that you took

4 longer to answer that one than any other name?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. Can you explain your issues with your opinion with

7 regards to Parks?

8 A Parks, in dealings with me, has tended to manipulate

9 circumstances and work circumstances not in my favor.

10 Q Okay.

11 A On various times during my career with him.

12 Q All right. Do you have any concern or fear of being here and

13 testifying and answering these questions with the sheriff in

14 the room?

15 A No.

16 Q Do you have any concern for retaliation in the workplace based

17 on testimony today?

18 A No.

19 Q That also took a pause, would you agree?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Are you aware of retaliation in the workplace?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Can you describe any incidents that come to mind that caused

24 you just now to say yes?

25 A The -- that's where Jeff Parks has kind of manipulated

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1 situations. If I was coming up for something, he might be

2 trying to -- he'll remember something that happened a year or

3 two ago and change the outcome of a position assignment or

4 something, specifically, with FTO'ing. That's many years ago.

5 Q Okay.

6 A That was kind of a -- what happened back then.

7 Q All right.

8 A Under a different administration.

9 Q Okay. Are you aware of others in the department sharing that

10 -- not necessarily that specific with Jeff Parks -- but sharing

11 that concern about retaliation in the workplace?

12 A Yes.

13 Q We were going through a list of names and I don't intend to go

14 through the entire department.

15 A That's good.

16 Q Are there any other deputies or management that you have

17 concerns from your work and an opinion about their credibility

18 or truthfulness?

19 A Generally, no. I don't get that involved with the department

20 or the co-workers, so no.

21 Q Were you at all involved in the matter of Freeman and

22 VanderVeen and the Wiederspohn case that went to federal court?

23 Do you know what I'm talking about?

24 A I guess, but I don't believe that I was.

25 Q Okay. Do you know the case that I'm talking about?

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1 A I think so. The tasing.

2 Q And the entry to the house --

3 A Yeah.

4 Q -- whether it was a cement porch --

5 A Yeah.

6 Q -- or rickety?

7 A Right. No. I was not involved.

8 Q Did you ever talk with either VanderVeen or Freeman about that?

9 A No.

10 Q Did you ever have a problem with Paul Murphy's credibility or

11 truthfulness?

12 A Not specifically, no.

13 MR. KAMERRER: Let the record reflect that the deputy

14 paused before answering that question.

15 Q (By Mr. Butler) Why did you pause?

16 A Just kind of a review of my relationship with Paul.

17 Q How long has it been since you have had contact with Paul?

18 A I think that it was pretty close to the night that he asked me

19 if I went to the lieutenant up in Birch Bay, so it's been --

20 Q Pushing two years?

21 A Probably.

22 Q How long has it been since you've been in contact with Jeff

23 Parks?

24 A I think last March, about a year.

25 Q You haven't seen Jeff Parks for a year?

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1 A No. I work nights and I intentionally don't come down to the

2 office during the day.

3 Q Is that in part to avoid people who are in the office during

4 the day?

5 A I don't enjoy being involved in the politics of the office and,

6 you know, I -- I keep to myself on nights, and that's where I

7 choose to work.

8 MR. BUTLER: Nothing further.

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10 EXAMINATION OF GEORGE RATAYCZAK BY MR. KAMERRER

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12 BY MR. KAMERRER:

13 Q Deputy Ratayczak, were you aware that deputies were not

14 supposed to modify their office issued computers?

15 A As far as modify?

16 Q Making internal changes to the computers?

17 A Well, as far as the programs or -- we all modify our computer

18 to some extent with screen savers and such so...

19 Q Okay. Doing things like replacing a hard drive, internal hard

20 drive.

21 A Am I aware that we're not supposed to do that? Not

22 specifically. Would I assume? Yes.

23 Q Okay. Do you know of anyone who has removed, cloned, and

24 replaced their internal hard drive on their office issued

25 computer?

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1 A No.

2 Q Okay.

3 A Other than Paul. I don't know that he's done that.

4 Q Have you heard -- has he talked to you about that?

5 A That was the conversation that we had during the SECTOR class.

6 Q Can you relate what it was that he said about that issue?

7 A I told him that I used a Passport and he said that he's just

8 cloned his entire drive.

9 Q Okay. What did you understand that to mean?

10 A Made an exact copy of his hard drive.

11 Q Okay. Did he tell you how he used the copy?

12 A I don't recall, no.

13 Q Okay. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 14 in this

14 case. Do you see that -- I'm sorry. I'm not giving you the

15 official copy, so let's get the official one there.

16 Do you see that screen on your computer when you start

17 it up?

18 A Yes. Or one similar to it.

19 Q Okay. And you have to check the okay box to move onto the

20 computer?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Okay. Have you read that little message?

23 A To be honest with you, I can't tell you that I have.

24 Q Okay. Or at least not in a long time?

25 A At least not in a long time. It's one of those nuisance

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1 buttons that you click through to move onto the next screen.

2 Q Okay. All right. You referred to a Passport. Is that

3 essentially a large capacity thumb drive?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Is it plugged into the computer through the USB drive?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And it simply provides a large amount of capacity?

8 A Yes.

9 Q You said something about switching between computers. What

10 were you referring to?

11 A Between our laptops in the cars or moving down to one of the

12 report room desktop computers.

13 Q Okay. Do you do that because it's easier to use a desktop

14 computer to type things?

15 A And to get out of the car, yeah.

16 Q Okay. So that -- using the Passport allows you to take your

17 draft report into the office, use a better computer for typing

18 and finish it?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Okay. Does that then give you access to the network so that

21 you can submit a report electronically that you had prepared

22 using the Passport?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Do you recall at the SECTOR training, Paul Murphy expressing

25 any reservations about having the IT department work on his

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1 computer to install some programs that were related to the

2 SECTOR program?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Can you tell us about what he said about that subject?

5 A I specifically don't recall. I remember the other context was

6 that he didn't like other people on his computer.

7 Q Okay. Was that the extent of it?

8 A Pretty much.

9 Q Okay. How many years ago was it that you had the problem with

10 Jeff Parks relating to a field training officer situation?

11 A It was in the early 90s.

12 Q So what was his position at that time?

13 A He was either sergeant or lieutenant at the time.

14 Q Okay. Was Sheriff Elfo the sheriff then?

15 A No. He was not.

16 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. That's all of the questions that

17 I have. Thank you.

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19 EXAMINATION OF GEORGE RATAYCZAK BY MR. BUTLER

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21 BY MR. BUTLER:

22 Q With regard -- just to clarify, can you submit reports from

23 your laptop too; right?

24 A Yes. You can.

25 Q You use the Passport so that you don't keep files on the county

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1 computer system; correct?

2 A I use it to not to keep them off the county computer system.

3 It's more because my laptop hard drive crashed. It's more a

4 safety. Plus there's, you know, PowerPoints from different

5 trainings and other reference materials on there.

6 Q Do you remember in the conversation of saying, if you decide

7 not to come in tomorrow, you can just take the Passport and go

8 and you would have everything?

9 A Yes.

10 MR. BUTLER: Nothing further.

11 MR. KAMERRER: I have a couple more questions. Sorry.

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13 EXAMINATION OF GEORGE RATAYCZAK BY MR. KAMERRER

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15 BY MR. KAMERRER:

16 Q Do you have any -- strike that. Is it accurate to say that you

17 don't use the Passport in order to keep files secret?

18 A No.

19 Q Do you have any problem with IT working on your computer for

20 any purpose?

21 A No.

22 Q Do you have any problem with sharing with the administration

23 the materials that you store on your Passport?

24 A No.

25 Q In other words, you don't have any secret files that you're

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1 trying to keep from the administration?

2 A No. I -- with the textbooks and stuff that you get at

3 different trainings, I used to have 15 or 20 of them in my

4 front seat. So you go down to scan those and save those to the

5 Passport. So if I need reference material -- when I was in

6 search and rescue, we had a lot of different reference material

7 that way. It was just a way of cleaning out my car, which

8 didn't fit on one, two, or eight gigabyte thumb drives.

9 Q Okay. So did you -- does the Passport have county issued law

10 enforcement software installed on it?

11 A No.

12 Q It's purely a storage device?

13 A Purely. That's what I use it for is purely storage.

14 MR. KAMERRER: Okay.

15 MR. BUTLER: Thank you. Nothing further. Thanks.

16 (Signature Reserved)

17 (Deposition Adjourned)

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1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) ) ss.

3 COUNTY OF ISLAND )

4 I, Kristen M. Uhlig, the undersigned CCR in and for the Stateof Washington, do hereby certify:

5 That the annexed and foregoing deposition of the witness

6 named herein was taken stenographically before me and transcribedby me;

7 I further certify that the witness examined, read, and signed

8 the deposition after the same was transcribed, unless indicated inthe record that the parties and the witness waive the signature;

9 I further certify that all of the objections made at the time

10 of said examination to my qualifications or the manner of takingthe deposition, or to the conduct of any party, have been noted by

11 me upon said deposition;

12 I further certify that I am not a relative or employee orattorney or counsel of any of the parties to said action or

13 counsel, and that I am not financially interested in the saidaction or the outcome thereof;

14 I further certify that the deposition, as transcribed, is a

15 full, true, and accurate transcript of the testimony, including allquestions and answers, and all objections, motions and exceptions

16 of counsel made and taken at the time of the foregoing examination;

17 I further certify that I am sealing the deposition in anenvelope with the title to the above cause thereon and marked

18 "Deposition Upon Oral Examination" of said witness and promptlycausing the same to be delivered or forwarded to Counsel for the

19 Opposing Party;

20 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixedmy official seal this ___ day of____________, 2014.

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22 __________________________

23 Kristen M. Uhlig, #1934 Certified Court Reporter,

24 Residing in Clinton, Washington.

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Documents

Deputy X19 - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted