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DecenteringKoreanIdentitywithDiasporicArt:AConversationwithY.DavidChungY.DavidChung,UniversityofMichiganInconversationwithHijooSon,PhillipsAcademy,andJooyeonRhee,TheHebrewUniversityofJerusalemY.DavidChungisanartistandfilmmakerknownforhisfilmandvideoworks,installations,performances,drawings,prints,andpublicartworks.ThisinterviewcombinestwoconversationsontheconceptofKoreanidentityanddiasporicart:onethattookplacein2008,afterChungfinishedfilminghisdocumentaryKoryoSaram:TheUnreliablePeople,co-directedwithMattDibble,andtheotherin2018.HijooSonandJooyeonRheejointlydesignedthequestions,interviewedProfessorChung,andredactedthetranscriptintoitspresentform.DecenteringKoreanIdentityJooyeon:David,couldyoutelluswhyworkingondiasporaissointegraltoyourwork?David:Theideaofdiasporahasbeenreallyimportanttomeformanyyears,evenbeforerecentacademicresearchondiaspora,nowcalleddiasporastudies,becamesignificant.IhavetraveledalotsinceIwasakid[inthe1960sand1970s],andIhaveseenasubstantialKoreanpopulationlivingoutsideKorea.IwasintriguedtoseehowKoreansinvariousplacesacrosstheworldshapedtheirexistenceoutsideKorea.Whoarethesepeople?HowcantheyframeastructurefortheiridentificationwithKorea?And,atthesametime,howdotheythenshapetheiridentitiesoutsidethecountry?Insomecases,suchastheKoreansintheformerSovietUnion,whoarecalledKoryŏsaram,peoplewhoaretwoorthreegenerationsawaystilllatchontotheideathattheyareKorean,eventhoughtheyarenotreallyKorean.IseesimilarcasesamonggroupsofKoreanpeopleintheUnitedStatesandmanyplacesaroundtheworld.Thesecaseshavebeenintriguingtome;thus,diasporabecameanimportantsubjectmatterinmyworks.Jooyeon:It’sinterestingtohearyousaythatsecond-andthird-or,inthecaseofKoryŏsaram,fourth-generationKoreanswhobelievetheyareKorean“arenotreallyKorean.”Thisstatementisrelatedtothesecondquestionwewantedtoaskyou.DoesyourideaaboutdiasporaandKoreanidentitychangeorexpandasyoucreateworksaboutthem?YouhavefeaturedKoreansinRussiaandKazakhstan,andrecentlyNorthKoreans.Dofourth-generationKazakhKoreans,forexample,clingtosomekindofideathattheyareethnicallyKorean?

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Figure1.StillimagefromKoryoSaram:TheUnreliablePeople,2007.David:Ithinkmyideasdochange.LookingtowardtheKoreansintheSovietsphereandinNorthKoreareallychangesthepivotofwheretheKoreandiasporacomefrom.ItdecentersthepreviouslydominantnotionofKoreandiasporicidentitybyshiftingthegeographicallocationoftheorigin,becauseitusedtobesofocusedonSouthKorea.Anditdoesexpandthecentralideaofwherethemothercountryis.Itreallydoeschangealotofwaysyoulookatthediasporiccommunitywhenyou“decenter”thepointoforigin,becauseyoulookatitfromtheirperspective,throughtheprismoftheirhistoryandlegacy.It’squitedifferentfromthosewhomigratedtotheUnitedStatesorSouthAmericaforeconomicreasons.Hijoo:Soyou’retalkingaboutthepoliticalandhistoricalreasoningormotivationformovementorforcedmovementinthesecases?David:Right.ThecircumstancesoftheirmovementshapetheirideasaboutKoreanidentity.Hijoo:Ontheonehand,differenttypesofmovementdecentertheconceptofKoreandiaspora,particularlythewaysinwhichculturalproducersthinkaboutitordealwithit,orwriteandmakeartworkaboutdiasporicissues.ButfromthestandpointoftheNorthKoreanrefugees,forexample,Idon’tknowifwecanusediasporawhenreferringtothem.Wouldyousaythatthesepeopledecentertheconceptofdiaspora?Toagreatextent,theirlivesarestillbeingdeterminedbytheSouthKoreanstate.EvenbeforetheyarrivedinSouthKorea,theywereinChina,Thailand,andalltheothercountriesthey

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hadtogothrough.DoyouthinktheexistenceofNorthKoreanmigrantsandrefugees“decenters”theconceptofdiaspora,sinceamajorityofthemliveinSouthKorea?David:Yes,Ithinkso.ForthosewhogrewupinPyŏngyangorelsewhereinNorthKoreabutnowliveintheWestorinpost-Sovietcountries,theirchildhoodmemoriesandideasabouthowtheygrewuparecompletelydifferentfromthoseofpeoplefromtheSouth.Theirpoliticalviews,forexample,arequitedifferentfromthosefromSouthKorea.SoIdothinkitmakesabigdifference.1NorthKoreanRefugeesasDiaspora

Figure2.StillimagefromDefectorProject,avideoinprogress.Jooyeon:Ipresumethatyourideaabout“decentering”isinformedbyyourrecentworkwithNorthKoreans.Couldyoujusttalkalittlebitaboutwhatyou’vebeendoingrecently,especiallysinceyouhavespentsometimeinSeoulandinPyŏngyang?David:Well,thisisaprojectthat’sbeengoingonandoffforseveralyears.Abouteightyearsago,IdidthefirstinstallationcalledPyŏngyang,anditwasadrawingandasculpturalwork.Shortlyaftertheinstallation,Iwantedtoexpandthatpiecebyworkingonavideoorfilmproject,butIputitasideforaboutfiveyearsbeforeworkingonitagain.I’vebeeninterviewingandworkingwithsomeNorthKoreanrefugeesanddefectorsinSeoulandtalkingtothemabouttheirexperiences.TheirstoriesreallyvaryfrompeoplewhohavebeeninSeoulfortenyearstopeoplewhojustcametoSouthKoreatwoyearsago.I’mmostinterestedinthehumancomponentoftheirlivesandtheirstoriesaboutresidinginSouthKorea.Idointerviewthemjustalittleabouthow

1SonandRhee(2018).

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theyescapedandthehardshipstheywentthroughbeforearrivinginSouthKorea.Mymaininterest,however,istohearabouthowtheyarelookingattheirlivesnow.SomeofthemwanttogobacktoNorthKorea,andthattypeofthingisaveryinterestingexample.Jooyeon:WhoaretheoneswhowanttogobacktoNorthKorea?Istheirdesiretoreturnduetotheextremelydisplacedconditionsunderwhichtheylive[d]inSouthKorea?David:Somehavegoneback,thoughIdon’tthinkanyofthepeopleIinterviewedhavereturned.Thereareanumberofreasonsthattheywanttoreturn.MaybetheymisstheirfamilybackinNorthKorea,somefeelliketheydon’tfitinSouthKorea,manySouthKoreanscanbeveryjudgmental,andsoon.Hijoo:Lookingatthescaleofidentitiesthatyouaredepictingandencountering,wouldyousaythattheyrepresentorarepartofthe“Koreandiaspora,”inthesensethatthediasporicidentityparexcellenceisoneinwhichthathistoryofdisplacement,suffering,trauma,pain,violence,andcoercedorforcedmovementisimbricatedinthatterm?Inthissense,wouldyouarguethatNorthKoreanasylumseekersandrefugeesarepartofthatKoreandiaspora?David:Yes,Ithinktheyare.Forexample,someofthemarelivingbeyondSouthKoreaindifferentcountriessuchasEngland,theUnitedStates,andCanada,sotheywoulddefinitelybepartoftheKoreandiaspora.Youhavetousethisterm“diasporiccommunity”verycarefully,becausethereisanofficialgovernmentdefinition.SouthKoreaestablishedagovernmentinstitutionthatdealswithKoreandiasporaafewyearsago,Ibelieve,thatinterpretsthingsinacertainway.SohowdoNorthKoreansresidinginSouthKorearepresentpartofadiasporiccommunity?Thatwouldbeahardquestiontoteaseout.Iguessitwoulddependonhowyoudefine“diasporiccommunity.”Thequestionis:Whichoneistheirmothercountry?NorthorSouthKorea?Hijoo:Right!Exactly!That’stheconundrum!David:Thoserefugeeslivingabroadaredefinitelyincludedinthe“diasporiccommunity.”Hijoo:ButtheconundrumofhowtocategorizethoselivinginSouthKoreaisyettobedetermined,perhaps?David:Yes,Idon’tknowexactlyhowyouwouldcategorizethem.

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Jooyeon:Didyouexhibitanyofyourrecentvideo,DefectorProject,onNorthKoreans,whileyouwereinSeouloverthesummer?David:Ihaven’tshownitinSeoulyet.ThelasttimeIshowedapieceofitwasattheUniversityofCaliforniaatBerkeley,whenIwasinvitedtogiveatalkthere.Butrightnowtheprojectisinprogress.Jooyeon:HasyourinteractionwithNorthKoreansinSouthKoreainformedyouinwaysthatfurther—orevendifferfrom—whatyouhavelearnedfromethnicKoreansintheCommonwealthofIndependentStatessuchasKazakhstanandUzbekistan?Obviously,NorthKoreansareKorean—theyconsiderthemselvesKorean—buthowisthatnegotiated,especiallyastheyinteractwithSouthKoreansandshifttheirunderstandingofself?David:AsIsaidearlier,thewaystheylivereallyvary.TherearesomepeoplewhohavemigratedtoSouthKoreaandfoundwork.Thesepeoplearedoingokay,thoughtheystillfeel,ofcourse,theprejudicebecauseoftheiraccentandwheretheyarefrom.Asyouknow,SouthKoreaisaveryhierarchicalsociety.Ifyouareayoungmanandyoudidn’tserveinthemilitary,thenyouareinonegroupofpeoplewhoaretobediscriminatedagainst.IfyouareNorthKorean,thenyouareinacompletelydifferentgroupofpeoplealtogether.Ithinktheexperiencesoftheyoungwomenandmenaredifferentaswell.Soit’sreallyhardtogeneralizetheirstories.Butindividualstoriesmatteralot.Someoftheirstoriesarequitehorrific,suchasyoungwomenbeingsoldaswivestoChinesemen,havingkids,andthenhavingtoescapetoThailand.AlmostallofthepeopleIinterviewedwenttoThailandandthencameupthroughThailandtoSouthKorea.2Hijoo:Andthemajorityofthemhavebeenwomen?David:Therearealotofwomen,buttherewereyoungmenaswell.Hijoo:David,youareverywellknowninthecommunityofSouthKoreanartistsandacademics,butnotnecessarilywithNorthKoreanrefugees.Whenyouapproachthem,doyoutellthemwhoyouare,andthentheyareopentotalkingtoyou,orisitjustkindofhowIoftengoaboutdoingthings:“Hey!I’mthisperson,I’mdoingthisethnographicstudy,mayIinterviewyou?”Howdoyouapproachthem?David:Usuallytheyarenotfamiliarwithmywork.Ifthey’reotherartistsandacademics,thentheywillbe.Sointhatcase,yes,thentheycertainlydo.SpecificallywiththeDefectorProject,itdoesn’treallycomeup.They’lljustthinkI’msomeonemakingafilm.2ThegrowingbodyofNorthKoreanstudiesisexpandingbytheday,butsomeofthebestworkonNorthKoreaandNorthKoreanrefugee/migrantissueisbyAndreiLankov.Thoughoutdated,hisarticle(Lankov2004)remainsimportantinthefield.

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ReceptionofDiasporicArt

Figure3.Stillphotofroma1988performanceofSeoulHouse,co-writtenbyPoohJohnstonandCharlesTobermann,withJimTurnerplayingMr.KimandTomWallplayingtheSalesman.

Jooyeon:Thispastsummer,weweretalkingaboutyourteachingworkonfilminSeoul,andwewantedtoknowifyourworkhasbeenreceivedinSouthKoreadifferentlythanin,let’ssay,Boston,Chicago,orWashington,whereyouhaveshownyourdocumentaryvideoKoryoSaram.Also,whatkindofchangeshaveyouseeninSeoulconcerningthesubjectmatterofyourfilm,theideaofKoreandiaspora?David:That’sagoodquestion.IthinkmyworkislookedatverydifferentlyoverinSouthKoreathanitisinUnitedStates.Earlieron,whenIshowedmyworkinSouthKorea,Iwaslabeledasaminjung[people’s]artist,maybebecausemyworkdealsmainlywithsociallymarginalizedpeople.Iheardaboutthisterminology,becauseminjungartistsimmediatelyassociatedmyworkwiththeirsduetothestyleofmywork.EvenasearlyasSeoulHouse[1987],theSouthKoreanartworldlinkedmewiththatstyle.Iwasimmediatelyputinthatcampbackthen.3

3TheeconomicboominKoreanindustryinthe1980screatedanunequaldistributionofwealth.Suchinequalitiesandunjustsocialhierarchiesrealizedthroughtheexploitationofthepoorled,partly,tothebirthofminjungmisul(people’sart).Minjungmisulexpresslymanifesteddistasteformodernismandopposedtheideaof“artforart’ssake.”Aestheticswaslessimportantand

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Hijoo:Areyoutalkingaboutthislabelingasoccurringrecentlyorawhileago?David:Awhileago,inthe1990s.ThefilmsIshowedbackthenweretheworksIhaddoneonLosAngelesriotsandtherelationsbetweentheAfrican-AmericanandKorean-Americancommunities.IthinkpeopleinSouthKoreaarealwayscuriousaboutwhatmypoliticalstanceis.Eveniftheydon’tcomeoutandsayso,theyarealwayssearchingforthat.Andthenalso,Jooyeon’squestionaboutthereceptionofartworkandartistsfromoverseasinSouthKoreaisverycritical,whetheryouareKoreanorKoreanAmerican,orwhoeveryouare.CodyChoi,forexample,hadaveryinterestingtakeonallthisstuff.4Hijoo:HechangedhiscitizenshiptoSouthKorean?Andhe’sbasedinSeoulnow?David:Yes.He’sbasedinSeoul,butbecausehe’sspentsomuchtimeinLosAngeles—Ithinkhehasspentabouttwentyyearsthere—hehasfoundthathe’sconsideredKoreanAmericanandnotKoreaninSouthKorea.Jooyeon:So,you’resayingthattheviewer’ssubjectposition—suchasbeingSouthKorean—mattersinthereceptionofyourwork,becausethathasimplications?David:Yes.PeoplealwaysseemtobeinterestedinputtingyouinacertaincampinSouthKorea.TheunderstandingbetweenKorean-AmericanandKoreanartandartistsisveryinteresting.Forexample,lookattheVoidinKoreanArtexhibitioncuratedbytheSamsungMuseum.5It’sveryinterestingtohearKoreanpeoples’commentsaboutKorean-AmericanartistssuchasKimsooja,ByronKim,andDo-hoSuh.6TherearealsoKoreanartistsintheshow,andit’sactuallyoneofthebest-curatedpiecesinSouthKoreathatI’veseen.Ithadtodomostlywiththequalityoftheartandwithemptyspacesinartwork.TheoverallfeedbackwasthattheseartistsaretakingpartsofpastKoreanartandinterpretingit.Hijoo:Whatdoesthatmean?David:Idon’tknow,but,forexample,ByronKim’sceladonpaintingsareinterpretedasdirectlyreferringtoKoreanceladon.

whollysecondarytocontent.Thus,minjungartists’workaddressedtheconditionsofpeasants,urbanfactoryworkers,theexploited,andthedispossessed,particularlycritiquingwealthycapitaliststhroughart.ThemajorleadersofthemovementincludedKimBongjun(b.1954),YunO(1946–1986),ImOksang(b.1950),andSinHakch’ŏl(b.1954).Criticsofminjungmisulchargedthatthegroup’sovertlypoliticaltonesservedmerelyaspropagandaforleft-wingidealism.4TheartistCodyChoi(b.1961)considershimself“Komerican.”SeeThaddeus-Johns(2017).5SeeSchwabsky(2008).6SeeKimsooja(2003).

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Hijoo:SotheKoreanmarkersbecamethemarkersbecausetheyarelegibletoSouthKoreanviewers?David:Right.They’reusingtheseobjectstoreferenceKoreaandKoreanarthistory.Hijoo:WhatwastheDo-hoSuhpiece?David:Itwasasoft,fabricpiece,areallybeautifulgateproducedoutoffabric.It’sahugepiece,atwelve-foothangingKoreangatehand-sewntogether.AndKimsoojahadavideoaboutthewanderingmigrantinwhichoneseesthebackofherheadandthere’swatergoingby.Hijoo:ANeedleWomanseries.David:Yes.ItwasinterestingtoseehowKorean-Americanartworkissodifferentwhenit’sshowninSouthKoreacomparedwithanyothercountry.PreciselybecausetheviewersareSouthKorean,theyhaveanaturalbiastoconnecttheworktotheircountry.Andofcoursethey’regoingtopicktheceladonpiecesinsteadofByronKim’sSynecdoche[anongoingworkcomposedoffourhundredportraitsofsitters’skintones].Jooyeon:David,soyouaresayingthatSouthKoreanviewerstendtoreceivediasporicartists’workspolitically.But,yourcurrenttopicofconcern—theprojectyouareinmiddleofdoing—isaboutNorthKoreanimmigrantrefugeesandasylumseekers.Howeveryouwanttoshapethatcategory,itisinitselfaverypoliticalproject.SoIdon’tthinkyou’regoingtogetawayfromthattypeofquestioning.David:Notatall.Iunderstandthat.Hijoo:Ofcourse,it’sinteresting,though,becauseisn’titimportanttotellthestoriesthatyouaretryingtotell?David:Iwasveryinterestedinhowcultureandself-awarenesscomefromtraditionalstorytellingandhowthosestoriesformwhoyouare.IwasinterestedinKoreanstoriesandAmericanstories,inwhatissubjectmatter.IwasthinkingaboutwhatdefinessubjectmatterforimmigrantstoSouthKorea.Howisitdefinedforpeoplewhoaremovingfromplacetoplace?Howdoessubjectmatterbecomedefined?IfI’mreferringtoabiblicalscene,thenI’mobviouslyreferringtoWesternideas,andsothiswasasortofinvestigationintowhatallthatwasabout.Iwasinterestedinfolkstories,especiallyKoreanfolkstories,soitwasablendingofallthosethings.Icreatedaspecificallycommissionedwork,MegaMorningCalm,fortheAsia/America:IdentitiesinContemporaryAsianAmericanArt[1994]exhibition,curatedbyMargoMachidaand

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VishakhaDesai,thegallerydirectorsatthattime.TheywantedamuralfortheentrancewaytotheAsiaSociety[inNewYorkCity].ThetitlecomesfromtheKoreancreationstoryofTan’gun,andthat’swhyit’scalledMegaMorningCalm.

Figure4.DetailofMegaMorningCalm,1993.Mixedmediaonpaper.

Hijoo:Oh,becauseit’samega-narrative.David:Yes.It’sliketheultimatenarrative,orthefirstnarrative.Hijoo:I’veseenthepiece.Wasn’tthereanimplicitcritiqueofthatnarrative?Or,wereyouinterestedinbringingthemythicaloriginsontocanvasassubjectmatter?

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David:Yes,Iwasinterestedinsubjectmatter.Whatissubjectmatter?AndIwantedtochoosethiscreationstory.Everypeoplehasacreationstory,andnooneknowsabouttheTan’gunstory,whichisafascinatingone.Asyouknow,KimIl-sungandKimJong-ilclaimdirectlineagetoTan’gun,andtherewassomelinkagetoEverwhiteMountain(Paekdusan)andsomewarimageryintheinstallation.Justthestoryitself…Ireallylovedthestoryaboutthebearandthetiger.ItwasasubjectmatterthatIactuallywantedtoworkwith.Hijoo:Butit’samyth.David:Well,somepeoplebelievethatit’sreal.Andthere’saTan’guncult.7Hijoo:Well,yes,ofcourse.PeoplecallTan’gunharabŏji[grandfather].Whatdoyouthinkabouttheideaaboutpurebloodties,thattheKoreanpeopleareonelargefamilythatgoesbacktothisprogenitor,Tan’gun?David:Well,Ithinkthatit’sinteresting.ThekindofthingIwaslookingatinthefilmKoryoSaramisthattherearesomanyKoreanslivingabroad—somesevenmillion?Ithinkit’spreciselywhatIwantedtodriveatinthefilm:theideathatidentityandculturearetemporal.Theyaremadeupinthemind.It’saquestionofhowmuchyouwanttoattachyourselftoit.Ithinkthatsomepeopledon’twantanythingtodowithitandothersfinditanimportantthingtolatchonto.Myworkislookingatjusttheexperienceofapersonfromoneculturewhoismixingwithanotherculture.Hijoo:Butthisideaofattachment…you’redefinitelyattachingtoyourbodyofworkthisKoreanhistory.Justlookatthetitlesofyourearlierworksfromthe1990s—streetscene,barscene,apartment,andsoon—andthenlookfromthosetothetitlesofyourworksfromTurtleBoatHead[1992]toMegaMorningCalm.David:TheTurtleBoatHeadpieceisobviouslyabouttheHideyoshiinvasionsandtheturtlewarships.Again,Iwantedtointerjectsubjectmatterintothebodyofwork.Onceagain,Iwenttothegrocerystorewiththat.8IfeltlikeIhadn’tfinishedwiththattheme.

7SeeGrayson(2016).8ThisKorean-AmericanimmigrantstoryhighlightingthetensioninKorean/African-AmericanrelationsinurbanAmericathroughoutthe1980sand1990sinformsmuchofChung’searliermultimediaartwork,includinghisrapoperettaSeoulHouse(1987),whichhewrote,co-directedandco-produced.SeoulHousereceivedcriticalacclaim.Hostedbycolleges,communitycenters,andotherinstitutions,thisoperettawasre-producedthroughoutthecountryandevenmadeitswaytoAlmaty,Kazahkstan.Thus,SeoulHouseprovidedanentréeforChungintotheKoreancommunitiesoftheCentralAsianrepublics,thetopicandfocusofhis2006documentaryKoryoSaram:TheUnreliablePeople.

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ThistimeIactuallybuiltagrocerystorewithpaperandwood,andtheprojectwaslargelybasedonmyfather’sexperiencegrowingupduringtheJapaneseoccupation,survivingtwowars,andbeingpusheddowntotheSouth.Hijoo:He’soriginallyfromNorthKorea?Pyŏngyang?David:MymomisfromKaesong,andmyfatherisfromasmalltownoutsidePyŏngyang.TheybothlosteverythingduringWorldWarIIandcametoSouthKoreaaftertheoccupation,notduringthewaritself.Itwassometimebetween1945and1950,soTurtleBoatHeadwaslargelyaboutthatexperience.MyfatherwasintheKoreannavyfortwentyyears,andhe’dalwaystalkabouttheseturtleboats.Soit’slargelyapieceaboutthatstory.Hijoo:So,wasthepieceTurtleBoatHeadcommemorative?David:Ithinkthatthisinterjectionofculturelargelycomesfromautobiographyoratleastisinformedbythat,morethanitpresentsitselfasagrandhistoricalnarrative.Hijoo:It’sautobiographical,butit’salsohistorical.Thesearesomemain,conventionalnarrativesofKoreanhistory.David:Well,Ifindthiswholepoliticizationisaglobalthing.Peopledon’ttalkasmuchanymoreabouttheartisticmeritsofapiece.Theytalkmuchmoreaboutpoliticization.Jooyeon:Onthetopicofthepoliticizationofartwork,doyoubelieveyourinteractionwithartistsinSouthKoreahasgivenyouanyinsightintoorposedchallengestoyourdiasporicidentityoryourwork?Weretheremomentsofmisunderstanding,miscommunication,understanding,orconflictthatyouencounteredthatyoumightwanttosharewithus?David:Idon’tknowifmyinteractionswithartistsinSouthKoreaposeanychallengestomydiasporicidentity.Ifanything,theyconfirmmyunderstandingthatourapproachesareverydifferent,becausealotofartistsinSouthKoreawouldnothavethesameconcerns.Well…therearealotofartists,writers,filmmakers,andpeoplewhoareworkingwiththetopicofKoreandiaspora.Whenthistrendfirststarted,itwasreallymisunderstood,liketheartexhibitioncalledTheDecadeShow.9Hijoo:Yes,in1990.9RobertaSmith(1990)reviewedTheDecadeShow:FrameworksofIdentityinthe1980’s.Formoreinformationabouttheexhibition,seealsohttp://www.boweryartisttribute.org/index.php/Detail/Occurrence/Show/occurrence_id/195.

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David:1990.That’swhenthecuratorsgroupedmarginalizedpeople,withoutreallydistinguishingbetweenwhatmadethemmarginalized,asiftherewerenodistinctionamongethnic,cultural,orpoliticalreasonsformarginalizedgroupsintheUnitedStates.Ithinktheunderstandingofthediasporahasbecomemuchmorematurenow.It’sbecomereallydifferent.PeopleunderstanditmuchbetterinboththeUnitedStatesandKorea,actually.InSouthKorea,there’smuchmoreawarenessaboutdiasporicpeopletherenow.Andthereisn’ttheearlierattitudethatwas,sortof,eitheryou’reKoreanoryou’renot.Nowtheyunderstand,“Oh,okay,you’reaforeignKorean.”Theyacceptthat.Hijoo:That’sreallyinterestingthatyousaythataboutTheDecadeShow.ThentherewastheWhitneyBiennalein1993.DoyourememberhowByronKim’sworkonskincolorswasreallyhighlighted?Andthen,ofcourse,therewasYongSoonMin’s2002There:SitesoftheKoreanDiasporashowattheGwangjuBiennale.And,subsequently,doyouknowtheZainichiwriterKyung-sikSuh,whohaswrittenbooksabouttheKoreandiaspora?David:No.Imayhavereadsomeofhiswork.Hijoo:So,you’renotawareoftheKoreanJapanese….David:Ohyes,completely,partsofmyfamilyarestillinJapan.Hijoo:Yourfilmwasreallyeye-openingforsomanyofus,thecommunitiesthatwereabletoseeit.MaybeonedayyoucouldshowitinNorthKorea.You’reright,therehasbeenatrajectoryinwhichconversationsandespeciallyculturalproducershavebeenreallykeytohelpingtoopenthediscourse,ifIcansaythat:openingtheconversationtothinkoutsideconventionalnarrativesthatreduceeveryoneintoonepotasinTheDecadeShow,whichyoumentioned.David:TheDecadeShowmadenodistinctionbetweenthosewhovoluntarilymigratedandothers,whowereforciblybroughtover.Butofcoursethereisnowgreatawarenessofthosethings.IrememberbeingbackthenonapanelofKoreanimmigrants,rapevictims,andAmericanIndians.[Laughter.]Thetitleofthepanelwas“MarginalizedVictims.”Ofcourse,thatwouldneverhappentoday.InSouthKoreanow,andtheUnitedStatesandothercountries,there’salotmoreawarenessabouthybridcultures,ethnicidentity,ethnicnationalism,allthesedifferentwaysinwhichpeopleidentifythemselves,andalsotheartworkaswell.

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Figure5.DetailofTurtleBoatHead,1992.Charcoalonpaper.

CapitalizingonKoreanIdentityinPopularMediaDavid:InSouthKoreathere’sjustalotmoreunderstandingofdiasporicissues,andthetopicisreallypresentinthepopularmedia.OnthetopicofNorthKoreanrefugees,therearetelevisionshowsaboutNorthKoreanswhonowliveoutsideNorthKorea,soit’snotthishiddenthinganymore.Hijoo:TheNorthKoreanbeauties!10Didyouwatchtheshow?Whatdidyouthink?David:I’malwaysamazedathowallofthesethingsarereallypresentinthepopularmedia.Hijoo:It’snotahiddenthing.It’sactuallycommercialized,popularized,andinthatsensenarrativized.ButwhenIseethefamousshowwiththeNorthKoreanbeauties,andtheproducerisafamouswomanproducer,Iwouldsaythere’sacertainnarrativethat’sconstantlypushedontheaudience:thesewomentelltheirstoriesofgoingtohellandback,butultimatelythey’vefacedthechallenges,survived,andovercomehardship!David:That’sawholestrangeworld.Reallybizarre.

10ThisisareferencetotheChannelAtelevisionshowIjemannarŏgamnida(Nowonmywaytomeetyou),producedbyJinMinYi.SeeEpsteinandGreen(2013)andCho(2018).

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Hijoo:ItseemsthatSouthKoreansalwaysputNorthKoreansinapositivelight.Whetherthroughasaviornarrativeoravictornarrative,itdefinitelyseemsasifthere’sapositivetwist,whichIknowisnotalwaysthecase.David:So,alotofchangeshavecertainlyhappened,andthere’salotmoreawarenessofthediasporiccommunity.ReferencesCho,EunAh.2018.“‘Becoming’NorthKoreans:NegotiatingGenderandClassin

RepresentationsofNorthKoreanMigrantsonSouthKoreanTelevision.”Cross-Currents:EastAsianHistoryandCultureReview(e-journal)27:26–50.https://cross-currents.berkeley.edu/e-journal/issue-27/eacho.

Epstein,Stephen,andChristopherGreen.2013.“NowonMyWaytoMeetWho?SouthKoreanTelevision,NorthKoreanRefugees,andtheDilemmasofRepresentation.”TheAsia-PacificJournal:JapanFocus11(41,no.2).https://apjjf.org/2013/11/41/Stephen-Epstein/4007/article.html.

Grayson,JamesH.2016.“Tan’gunandChumong:ThePoliticsofKoreanFoundationMyths.”Folklore126(3):253–265.https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0015587X.2015.1093391.

Kimsooja.2003.“AOne-WordNameIsanAnarchist’sName.”July14.http://www.kimsooja.com/action1.html.

Lankov,Andrei.2004.“NorthKoreanRefugeesinNortheastChina.”AsianSurvey44(6):856–873.https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/as.2004.44.6.856?seq=3#metadata_info_tab_contents.

Schwabsky,Barry.2008.“VoidinKoreanArt:Leeum,SamsungMuseumofArt.”ArtforumInternational,May2008.https://www.mutualart.com/Article/-Void-in-Korean-Art-/CFE4FE4B0266703C.

Smith,Roberta.1990.“Review/Art:ThreeMuseumsCollaboratetoSumUpaDecade.”NewYorkTimes,May25.https://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/25/arts/review-art-3-museums-collaborate-to-sum-up-a-decade.html.

Son,Hijoo,andJooyeonRhee.2018.“Introductionto‘DiasporicArtandKoreanIdentity’.”Cross-Currents:EastAsianHistoryandCultureReview(e-journal)29:1–14.https://cross-currents.berkeley.edu/e-journal/issue-29/son-rhee.

Thaddeus-Johns,Josie.2017.“FreeOrgasms,NeonLights,andPepto-BismolattheKoreanPavilion:WhatDefinesKoreanArtAnyway?TheCountry’sVeniceBiennalePavilionWantstoKnow.”Vice,June14.https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbgydy/free-orgasms-neon-pepto-bismol-korean-pavilion.

DecenteringKoreanIdentitywithDiasporicArt

Cross-Currents29|89

AbouttheArtistY.DavidChungisaProfessorintheStampsSchoolofArtandDesignattheUniversityofMichigan.Heisalsoamemberofthecorefacultyattheuniversity'sCenterforKoreanStudies.

AbouttheInterviewersHijooSonisaninstructorofHistoryandSocialScienceatPhillipsAcademy.JooyeonRheeisaseniorlectureratTheHebrewUniversityofJerusalemandheadofHUJI’sKoreanStudiesProgram.ThisinterviewandtheprocessesofrevisionandeditingweresupportedbyanAcademyofKoreanStudies[KSPS]GrantfundedbytheSouthKoreangovernment[MOE][AKS2015-INC-2230003].