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CT scanning Fred Mettler NM VAHCS Albuquerque NM ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MD

CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

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Page 1: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

• CT scanning

Fred Mettler

NM VAHCS

Albuquerque NM

ICRP Symposium

Oct. 25, 2011

Bethesda, MD

Page 2: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

tube

stopwatch

batteries

70,000 volts

“Don’t move for the next 10 minutes or you will be electrocuted”

Things are not as ugly as they used to be

Page 3: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

3 million 1982

Page 4: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

CT

1995 21 million

Page 5: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

CT

2007 70 million

Page 6: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

CT scans by year in US (millions)

18.3 19.521.0

22.625.1 26.3

30.6

34.9

39.6

45.4

50.1

53.9

57.6

62.0

0.0

10.0

20.0

30.0

40.0

50.0

60.0

70.0

1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

No

. o

f p

roced

ure

s (

millio

ns)

Annual growth of >10% per year

U.S. population < 1%/yr CT annual growth > 10%/yr

CT scans by year in U.S. (millions)

Page 7: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Collective annual population dose from medicine has increased over 700 percent

900,000 person-Sv

2006 1980

124,000

Person Sv x 7.25 =

These results have not been reviewed and approved by Council. Not to be disseminated or referenced

Page 8: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Regarding dose we were pretty much caught off guard

Page 9: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good or bad ?

Natural

2.4

CT scanning 1.5 mSv

Radiography 0.3 mSv

Nuclear medicine 0.8 mSv

All other ?? mSv

Medical ~3.0 mSv

Total ~ 5.4

Medical 0.54 mSv

Total 3.0 mSv per capita

Natural 2.4 mSv

U.S. 1980 U.S. 2006

Interventional 0.4 mSv All other

Page 10: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Computed tomography (CT scan)

Recent advances in machine technology have led to more applications and markedly increased usage

Page 11: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Single slice CT scanner

Single detector

x-ray tube

Patient table

Scan time ~ 10-20 minutes

Incremental motion

Page 12: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Multislice multidetector helical CT scanner (new scanners are 1000x faster)

16-300 detectors

x-ray tube

Patient table

Constant motion

Now 300 slices/images in 0.3 second

Page 13: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Uncertainty reduced for patient and physician

Page 14: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Uncertainty reduced for patient and physician

CT scan”

Page 15: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Appendicitis

Normal

Abnormal

Page 16: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Trauma

CT scan of head, neck, chest, abdomen and pelvis

10-30 seconds

Many significant findings are seen such as brain hemorrhage, liver lacerations which are difficult or impossible to see on plain x-rays

Liver laceration

Small pneumothorax

Page 17: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good replacement of IVPs

Obstructing stone

Bladder

Intravenous urogram (IVP)

Requires injection of intravenous contrast

Contrast reactions in 5% of patients

30 minutes

Page 18: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

CT scan 30 seconds. No intravenous contrast

4mm stone in distal ureter

Page 19: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good replacement of other techniques with improved accuracy

Reduced blood flow to one lung- nonspecific

Large clot in right main pulmonary artery – clear diagnosis

Page 20: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad confusion in the literature

Bach PB et.al. JAMA 2007

144 cancers found 44 expected

No reduction in mortality

38 deaths vs 38.8 expected

Henschke et.al. NEJM 2006 CT scanning can prevent 80% of lung cancer deaths

JAMA March 7, 2007

Page 21: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Ugly Variation in CT scan doses among institutions and by scanner model

S. Stern, USFDA

Page 22: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Radiologist’s repetitive hedging

2005 MRI to “evaluate liver lesion”

Page 23: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

2004 Ultrasound shows characteristic hemangioma

Page 24: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Surprise 4 prior CT studies

2002

2003

2004

2005

2004

Page 25: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

CT scan 2002

No change over any scans in prior 3 years but “cannot entirely r/o neoplasm”

Page 26: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries
Page 27: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Hybrid imaging

Page 28: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Self-referral financial incentives

Page 29: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Ugly Uncertainty over Obamacare, taxes and the Federal budget

has stifled investment and planning

Page 30: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Gift certificates for screening CT scans

Page 31: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Rapid accurate diagnoses especially in the ER

Page 32: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

4 liters of blood

Uterine wall

Fetus spine

foot

Page 33: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Fetus

skull

ribs

blood

CT scan results

Page 34: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Free blood

Kidney ripped

off aorta (no contrast in it) Splenic laceration

3 min exam and off to the OR

She and the child survived

Page 35: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Potential overuse

Page 36: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

What does “ABC” stand for

Airway

Breathing

Circulation

Page 37: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

What does “ABC” stand for

Airway

Breathing

CT

Page 38: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Ugly

• The urologist or surgeon refuses to come see the renal stone patient until a CT is ordered

Page 39: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good and Bad Radiology consultation

• We don’t have time to discuss all CT scans • A typical department doing 35,000 CT scans per year = 5-6 phone calls per hour for CT alone

• Some have 24 hour availability

Page 40: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Computer systems Bad Limited use

Page 41: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Warning - Similar Names

Vano El Gato July 23, 1930 144-45-6929

Vano E July 14, 2008 144-36-8729

Page 42: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Computer generated warnings

Cousins Claire July 14, 1990 144-36-8729

Age 21 6 CT scans done in last 3 months

Continue to order ??

Attention: Possible radiation issue

Page 43: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Machine generated warnings

“ The CT protocol you have chosen has CTDI over the ACR accreditation limit !!”

Page 44: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Inadequate knowledge of dose and risk

What does a dose of 13 mSv and a DLP of 500 really mean ????

Radiology resident

Page 45: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad There probably is a cancer risk from CT

1.0

1.1

1.2

1.3

1.4

100 200 300 400

Relative risk

1 CT scan sequence

3-phase CT liver scan

4-5% of CT scan patients

Organ dose (mSv) A-bomb data show a statistically significant increase at > 150 mSv

50

Page 46: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good and Bad Age dependence of risk from a CT scan

D. Brenner

Head CT

Page 47: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Some groups noticed the issues in the late 1990’s

2000

Page 48: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad It really took media attention to accelerate changes

Page 49: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Dialogue

Page 50: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good

Radiation is quite a weak carcinogen and the cancers usually take years to arise, if they arise at all

Page 51: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good Radiation is a weak carcinogen and cancers generally take decades to occur

Non cancer deaths 37, 137

Expected cancer deaths

9,801

Radiation excess deaths (570)

~ 1% excess deaths due to radiation-induced cancer Preston Rad Res 2004

Causes of death in atomic bomb survivors (2001)

Page 52: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Bad Even a low risk multiplied by 70 million is a large number

Page 53: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Ugly CT scanning was reported to cause epilation and erythema over 10 years ago and has continued

Hair loss from excessive dose of a CT angiogram

Page 54: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Ugly Erythema from recent accidental overexposure

Page 55: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Things that should be in our sights Lower dose, better aim

Page 56: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good

Page 57: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Good translation and outreach

Page 58: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries
Page 59: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Coming soon…..

Page 60: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Thank you

Page 61: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries
Page 62: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

If you use too much radiation … you may get your ass in trouble

Always remember……

Page 63: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries

Ugly Going through the learning process

Page 64: CT scanning ICRP Symposium Oct. 25, 2011 Bethesda, MDicrp.org/docs/Fred Mettler CT scanning The good bad and ugly.pdf · Oct. 25, 2011 . Bethesda, MD . tube . stopwatch . batteries