Crucifixion Explained

8/14/2019 Crucifixion Explained

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< b> thanks for your long explanation and also for making things clear.

you have given me one view and i, the other.

and both are from the same scriptures.

I AM SORRY I CANNOT REPLY Y OU. YOU HAV E JU M PED ALL

OVER M Y REPLY.

YOU HAV E CH ERRY PICKED WH ATEVER Y OU WANTED TOREPLY AND EV EN M ISQU OTED M E. SO LET'S LEAV E I T AT

THAT.

however, i will present the following as i understand it. so please take time

to read the text and the context

IT INCLU D ES TH E PSALM OF DAV ID , V ERSES FROM TH E

GOSPELS AND H EBREWS AND ARCH EOLOGI CAL/H ISTORI CAL

RECORDS.

[Psalms 20:1 KJV ]The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble;

TH E NAM E OF TH E GOD OF JACOB D EFEND TH EE;

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


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[Psalms 20:2 KJV ]

SEND T H EE HELP FROM TH E SANCTU ARY ,

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

and strengthen thee out of Z ion;

DI V INE H ELP FOR TH E CHRI ST--M ESSIAH -- ANOINT ED

[Psalms 20:6 KJV ]

Now know I that the LORD saveth his anointed - christ--messiah;^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

he will hear him

^ ^

from his holy heaven

with the saving strength

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

of his right hand.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --

fufilled in jesus christ

AD D ITI ONAL PSALM S^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

I SH ALL NOT DI E, BU T LIV E

but he hath not given me

over unto death


3/12

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(Psalms 118:17 ERRB)

I shall not die, but live,

and declare scribe

the works of the LO RD Y ah .

(Psalms 118:18 ERRB)

I n disciplining,

The LORD Y ah hathchastened disciplined me sore :

but he hath not given me

over unto death.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

COM PAR E TH E EV EN TS I N JESU S CH RI ST'S LI FE A S WELL

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(H ebrews 5:7 KJV)

WH O IN TH E DA YS OF HI S FLESH ,

when he had offered up prayers

and supplicationswith strong crying and tears

U NTO HI M THAT WAS ABLE TO

SAVE HI M FROM D EATH,


4/12

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

AND W AS H EARD IN TH AT HE FEARED;

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(H ebrews 5:8 KJV)

Though he were a Son,

Y ET LE ARN ED he obedience

BY THE TH IN GS WH ICH H E SU FFERED ;

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

note

JESU S CHR I ST D ID NOT D I E,

BUT LIKE DAV ID BEFORE HIM ,

H E ALSO SU FFERED A T TH E

H AND S OF HI S ENEM I ES.

H OWEV ER, NO DEAD PERSON EV ER LEARNS

OBEDI ENCE, SAY , AFTER H IS D EATH .

^ ^ ^ ^

Though he were a Son,

Y ET LE ARN ED he obedience

BY THE TH IN GS WH ICH H E SU FFERED ;


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U NW I LLI NG SACR IFI CE or suicide

(H ebrews 5:7 KJV)

Who in the days of his flesh,

when he had offered up

PRA Y ERS AND SU PPLICAT ION S

WITH STRONG CRYI NG AND TEARS

UNTO HIM

TH AT WA S ABLE TO SAVE HI M FROM DEATH,

AND WAS HEA RD

in that he feared;

H IS GR EATEST FEAR

^ ^ ^

Then saith he unto them,

M Y SOU L IS

^ ^ ^

exceeding sorrowful,even unto death:

^ ^ ^


6/12

(M atthew 26:38 KJV )

And saith unto them,

M Y SOU L IS

EX CEEDI NG SORROW FUL

UNTO DEATH:

tarry ye here,

and watch.

(M ark 14:34 KJV )Y ESH U A WAS AFRAID TO DI E A SPIRI TU AL DEATH .

^ ^ ^

H IS SOU L WAS EX CEED INGLY SORROWFU L UN TO DEA TH .

^ ^

compare

the spirit indeed is willing,

BUT TH E FLESH I S WEA K.

^ ^ ^

1. Y AH SH U A'S SOU L WA S WEA K AN D H IS FLESH WA S WE AK.2. H IS SOU L WAS EXCEEDI NGLY SORROWFU L U NTO

DEATH.


7/12

(M atthew 26:41 KJV )

Watch ye and pray,

lest ye enter into temptation.

The spirit truly is ready,

BUT TH E FLESH I S WEA K.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(M ark 14:38 KJV )

Saying, Father,if thou be willing,

REM OVE TH IS CUP FROM M E:

nevertheless not my will,

but thine, be done.

(Luke 22:42 KJV )

And there appeared

AN ANGEL UN TO H IM

FROM H EAVEN,

STRENGTHENING H IM .

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(Luke 22:43 KJV )

AND BEING IN AN AGONY

H E PRAY ED M ORE EARNESTLY:

and his sweat was


8/12

as it were great drops of blood

falling down to the ground.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

(Luke 22:44 KJV) -

(ref: Hebrews 5:7 KJV )

Y ESH U A WAS AFRAID TO DI E A PH Y SICAL D EATH.

H IS FLESH WA S WEAK.

this obvious confusion and uncertainty is further compounded by the

following johannine text:

JESUS

'the reality or an illusion'

1. 'and now i am no more in the world' - john 17:11 (kjv)

*

2. 'and i come to thee' - john 17:11 (kjv)

*

3. 'while i was with them in the world' - john 17:12 (kjv)

*

4. 'and now come i to thee' - john 17:13 (kjv)*

5. 'and these things i speak in the world' - john 17:13 (kjv)

*

6. 'even as I am not of the world' - John 17:14 (kjv)


9/12

i. that said, which physical part and/or spiritual portion of the jesus christ

was crucified - < 4717> - [galatians 3:1]?

ii. and/or hangeth < 2910> - on a tree [galatians 3:1]?

iii. or 'slew & amp; hanged strong # 2910 [acts 10:39]?

let any faithful christian and/or a defender of the so-called cruci_FICTion,

death and resurrection of jesus christ prove it from john 17:11 - 14 (kjv)

only.

The D ocetae held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but

only an apparent or phantom body, and that his Crucifixion was only

apparent, not real.

Y usuf A li's Commentary from QuranTrans

'AND I D ID NO DI E IN REALITY BU T IN APPEARANCE'

ARCH AEOLOGICAL PROOF:

3. 'But I [jesus] was not afflicted at all. ....

AND I DI D NO DIE IN REALITY BUT IN APPEARANCE,

lest I be put to shame by them, ....For my death which they think happened,

(happened) to them in their error and blindness,


10/12

SI NCE TH EY NA I LED TH EI R M AN unto their death.....

I T W AS ANO TH ER , their father,

who drank the gall

and the vinegar;

IT W AS NOT I .

they struck me

with the reed,

IT W AS ANOTH ER,

SIM ON, who bore the cross on his shoulder.

IT W AS ANOTH ER

U PON WH OM THEY PLACED

TH E CROW N OF TH OR NS. .....

And I was laughing at their ignorance'

(The Nag H ammadi Library in English,

The Second Treatise of the Great Seth (V I I , 2), pp. 332).

3. 'One gnostic text from N ag H ammadi,4. the Apocalypse of Peter,5. relates a radically different version of the crucifixion : .....6. I saw him apparently being seized by them.7. And I said what am I seeing, O Lord?8. I s it really you whom they take?


11/12

9. And are you holding on to me?10.And are they hammering the feet and hands11.OF ANOTHER?12.Who is this one above the cross,13.who is glad and laughing?"14.The Saviour said to me,15."H e whom you saw being glad16.and laughing is the L iving Jesus.17.But he into whose hands and feet18.

they are driving the nails is his fleshy part,

19.WH ICH I S TH E SU BSTI TU TE.20.They put to shame21.that which remained in his likeness.22.And look at him,23.and [look at ] me"

(The Gnostic Gospels, by Elaine Pagels, under, 'The Passion of Christ,' pp.

87).

CORROBORATION

< a href= "http://www.bsw.org/Biblica/Vol-81-2000/The-Crux-At-H ebrews-

5-7-8/294/" target= "_blank"> http://www.bsw.org/Biblica/Vol-81-2000/The-Crux-At-H ebrews-5-7-8/294/< /a>

James Swetnam, The Crux at H ebrews 5,7-8, V ol. 81 (2000) 347-361


12/12

H eb 5,7-8 is a classic crux. I t is not clear, as the text seems to say, HOW

JESU S COULD BEG TO BE FREED FRO M D EATH AND TH EN BE

H EARD ` although H e was son'.

Further, it is not clear H OW JESU S COU LD ` LEA RN OBED IEN CE

from the things H e suffered' ;

since H ebrews pictures Him as antecedently ready to do God's will.

One of the classic cruces in the Epistle to the H ebrews is the passage at H eb5,7-8 which speaks of TH E PETI TI ONS M AD E BY CH RI ST.

There are a number of problems associated with these verses, but one

problem is crucial:

Jesus seems to be pictured as

BEGGING TO BE SAV ED FROM D EATH

AND AS H AVI NG BEEN HEARD .

But this seems to CONTRAD ICT TH E OBV IOU S FA CT that Jesus died

James Swetnam, The Crux at H ebrews 5,7-8, V ol. 81 (2000) 347-361[snip a solution proposed].

< /b>

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Crucifixion Explained