ORAL HISTORY OF CARL BRUNER

Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt

Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.

May 9, 2016

MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History. The

date is May 9, 2016. I'm Don Hunnicutt, in the studio of BBB Communications, LLC,

170 Randolph Road, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to take the oral history from Carl Bruner.

Carl, please state full name, place of birth, and date of birth, please.

MR. BRUNER: Carl Anthony Bruner, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, date of birth is October

11, 1950.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Would you spell your last name.

MR. BRUNER: It's B-R-U-N-E-R, just one "N".

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what was your father's name, place of birth, and, and date, if

you recall?

MR. BRUNER: His name was James Carl Bruner, and he was born in Pineville,

Kentucky, in Bell County. But, the odd thing about it is that, my legal name is Carl

Anthony Bruner, Junior, but I'm not a junior, because my father's name is James Carl

Bruner. So, they put that junior on end of my name without me being a junior. So, it's,

you know, it's kind of, sometimes, it's questioned because they'll ask my father's name,

James Carl Bruner, and then ask my name, Carl Anthony Bruner. See, we don't have

the same names, but they've got the junior on there like there's a senior out there

somewhere. So, they question where's that senior, and I say, "There's not one."

MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your mother's maiden name before she married?

MR. BRUNER: She was a Wilson.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And her name was?

MR. BRUNER: Opal Wilson.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, place of birth, and date.

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MR. BRUNER: Pineville, Kentucky. And, that was in April, 22, of 1917.

MR. HUNNICUTT: On your father's side, what was your grandfather's name and your

grandmother's maiden name?

MR. BRUNER: It was R. Dill Bruner. He was of German ancestry. His parents were

from Pennsylvania, but they, actually, came over, over from Germany to New York,

and then, moved down to Pennsylvania. I don't know much about them. Just a small

family, and not, not many roots here in the United States.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your mother's side, maiden name?

MR. BRUNER: My grandmother's?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, on your father's side.

MR. BRUNER: Parrott. And, she was from Jellico area, I think. Jellico, Tennessee.

You know, I'm not sure how she got to Kentucky, but anyway, they lived there in

Pineville, Kentucky, which is not too far from Jellico.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Right. What about your other side, your grandparents?

MR. BRUNER: On the Wilson side, my grandfather, his name was Boyd Wilson, and

my grandmother is, was Leland Kenningham.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Would you spell that?

MR. BRUNER: Gosh, I can't even spell that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Ok.

MR. BRUNER: I'll tell you later and get the spelling correct.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your father's school history?

MR. BRUNER: He went through high school. They both graduated from high school.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You have sisters and brothers?

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MR. BRUNER: No, I'm an only child. My parents, another thing sort of interesting, they

were married 17 years before they had me. So, I was kind of a surprise. My mother

didn't think she could ever have a child. She had two miscarriages. And then, I came

along. My mother, I think my mother said she was almost 17 when she got married, so

she was, what? 34, you know, and, my dad was 38, you know, when I came along.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of work did your father do?

MR. BRUNER: In Kentucky, he, my mother's side of the family had a coal mine. And,

they had a commissary. So, my dad worked at the commissary, and my mother, really,

didn't have a job outside the home. She was always a homemaker. But, that's, kind of,

where he got his start, as far as storekeeping. It was in the commissary.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, we're going to talk about your father, related to Oak Ridge, a

little bit later, but for right now, when did your father come to Oak Ridge?

MR. BRUNER: Initially, my parents moved to Kingsport, Tennessee. They actually,

lived there, with another couple, they shared expenses, and my dad worked at

Tennessee Eastman. Then, he was able to get to come to Oak Ridge and get a job,

and he helped build K-25. Anyway, they, my parents lived with another couple in

Knoxville. And, they, my mother told me that the two women in the house, she and the

other lady, would get up at three o'clock in the morning, you know, to get the men

ready to leave. You know, fix their breakfast, you know, cook breakfast for them, and

make their lunch, and set them out to come to Oak Ridge. Because, it was two hours

to get to Oak Ridge, or even more, because it was bumper-to-bumper traffic, you

know, from Knoxville to Oak Ridge, so they had to leave real early to be able to get to

work on time.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall where they lived in Knoxville?

MR. BRUNER: I don't. I don't recall where they lived.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, when did the, your parents finally move into Oak Ridge?

MR. BRUNER: Well, they actually got here, actually, I guess, started to work in '43, but

I'm not sure if it was '44 when they actually got in, you know, inside the city limits. But,

I, when they first moved in, they lived in an E building. May have been E2 apartment.

And, I'm thinking it's on Vermont.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Ok. Let's go back to you for a, tell me about your school history,

when you first started school, where it was.

MR. BRUNER: I went to Pine Valley. Went to Pine Valley, then I went to the old

Jefferson Junior High.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, when you went to Pine Valley, where did your family live?

MR. BRUNER: We, actually, lived on New York Avenue, in a B house. Of course, I

guess I was probably five years old, 1955. But, about that time, I think, it, that's when

they were able to actually purchase a house. I think right around that time frame. So,

they purchased a B and then, my dad remodeled that B house.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Remember the address?

MR. BRUNER: I really can't. I can't remember the exact number.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Where about’s on New York was it. I used to live on New York, up

at the top.

MR. BRUNER: Well, it's ... you know the school, Pine Valley school? It was, maybe,

the fifth house on, fourth or fifth house on the right past ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Going up the hill.

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MR. BRUNER: Going up the hill.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I think I remember your family living there when I used to deliver

papers down through there. And, now that I think about it, that rung a bell in my mind.

MR. BRUNER: The, one thing that was, I had an uncle that came from, from Kentucky,

from Pineville, Bell County. He would, he would, he came to help remodel the house.

So, he would live there during the week, and then, he would go back to Kentucky, you

know, for the weekend, then come back. But, he and I were real close buddies. He, we

just had a close relationship. His name was Ed Kenningham. Uncle, I called him Uncle

Ed. He was a great guy. Funny.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what year that might've been?

MR. BRUNER: I guess it was fifty ... maybe '56, '57. I was very young.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What ...

MR. BRUNER: Six or seven years old.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What was some of the outstanding traits that he had, that you and

him, kind of, bonded together?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, he was just, he was just, loved to laugh, just had the best sense of

humor, you know, was just a rare sense of humor. Just enjoyed people, and was just

loving, kind. He was long and lanky, and just a good, you know, mountain, you know,

person, out of Bell County, Kentucky. You know, just had good roots, and his, his

mother was a school teacher. She came over from Virginia on a mule. Farmers, just,

you know, hard living, brought up tough. These people were born in the late 1800s,

you know. They'd seen, seen it all.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: You being the only child, that, kind of, kind of, made a better bond,

seems like to me, because he would give you a lot of information you didn't get in

school.

MR. BRUNER: Exactly.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And ...

MR. BRUNER: He would tell me stories of, you know, coming out of the hills.

Moonshiners that would come out of the sticks with their, with their cash in saddle

bags, wearing black coats, and black hats, and, you know, ride to town to put their

money in the bank. If you got caught up there, they'd kill you and chop you up and

throw you in the furnace. (laughs) So, he, he would always tell these kind of stories,

but it, they were true, I mean, there was no question about it. He would tell all these

stories.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember who some of your teachers were at Pine Valley?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh, you know, I'd have to really stop. I think, McGhee was the

principal, Blackabee, that's a name. I think she was the third grade teacher. But, they

were all just like, you know, those teachers were like, you know, your, your mother or

your aunt, you know. Just, they were close to us back then.

MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a lot of children in each classroom, wasn't they?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah, it was packed out.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you enjoy going to school?

MR. BRUNER: I did, yeah. I lived close, and I, you know, this is a thing, too. I walked

home for lunch. I was, well, of course, you couldn't do that in kindergarten because

you only had half a day. First grade, I walked home for lunch, from the first grade,

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through the sixth grade, every day. Because we moved from, like, New York, down to

Newcomb. That's kind of an interesting story, too, because my parents traded houses.

My parents had that B house that was remodeled, and they had some, they knew

some people that went to church with them, went to First Baptist, they lived down on,

on West Newcomb, behind Pine Valley Shopping Center. Well, they were talking, and

they said, "We'll trade houses. We'll give you our D house, which is not remodeled,

because we don't need this bigger house, for your remodeled B." So they traded

houses. So I was always close to Pine Valley, and I walked home for lunch. So, I'd

walk home for lunch, and my mother would always have the meal there, ready. I could

get over there, because it was, you know, 300 yards, and, from the school, and walk

home, and eat, and be back at school. Sometimes, when my mother would be out of

town, I wasn't supposed to do this, but I would, I would sneak in the back door of the

pharmacy at, Bass Pharmacy Drug Store, up there, and I'd sneak in the back door,

and have lunch there. Sometimes, the teachers would come in, or whatever, you know,

and catch me, but they never did turn me in. I was small, I mean, I was still, you know,

what, seven, eight years old.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Describe for me Pine Valley Shopping Center. How do you

remember it?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh, it was wonderful. Course, it was the Laughing Monkey, I

don't know if you remember the Laughing Monkey.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.

MR. BRUNER: The Laughing Monkey was, sort of, a unique store, because they, they

sold gifts, but they also sold toys and more educational toys. They would have model

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airplanes, and they had a lot of chemistry apparatus, and chemicals. I don't know, it

was fascinating. You could get a pea shooter there, you could get a slingshot. You

could get just a lot of things you just couldn't find anywhere else. They just had some

unique things. There was always something there that I was just dying to buy. But, you

know, my parents either wouldn't, you know, my mother was, like, you just got to

always wait 'til your birthday or Christmas to get anything, you know. Wasn't like it is

now, everybody just gets what they want. But, back then, you know, it was, it was a

struggle (laughs) to talk them into getting anything. Even though they had the money,

they, you know, my mother was, knew the value of the dollar.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You remember who used to run the Laughing Monkey?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah, let's see, what was her name? Oh, gosh ... I'll think of it in a

minute.

MR. HUNNICUTT: How about Jane Bridges.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, Jane Bridges. I can see her face right now. And, I'll see her two

sons, right now, see their faces.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, one of her sons and I've been long time friends for many,

many years.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what else do you remember about the Pine Valley? What else

was there?

MR. BRUNER: Ok, there was a beauty shop there, and then, there was a grocery

store there. A unique thing about the grocery store, at one time, my dad owned it, you

know. So, but then, there was, which I loved that grocery store, too. You could go in

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the back door, I mean, it was, you know, we'd come in the back door of the grocery

store, and go out the back door. Of course, Pine Valley Pharmacy, and Mrs. Cox, that

used to be there. She was a wonderful lady. She was, she would be at the front

register. Then, the women at the, of course, they had a counter, back then, a luncheon

counter. And, let's see, I can't remember that lady. Louise was her first name. But, you

could just go in there, and you could get a delicious hamburger, you know, and Coke,

and cherry Cokes. But, we'd go in there and read, sit down on the floor and read comic

books and nobody'd say anything. I always looked at the toys, and, of course, the

penny candies, or whatever, we'd, we couldn't wait 'til Halloween, because they had

just a tremendous selection of that, wax candies, you know, at Halloween. But, that

was a, was a fascinating store, and I can still smell it when I, you know, just to close

my eyes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember when you went in the front door, to the right was

the soda fountain ...

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ...and the eating area. Where was the cash register located?

MR. BRUNER: It was to the left of the door. Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: It was a typical drug store with display cabinets, and ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... shelves. And the pharmacy’s in the back, wasn't it?

MR. BRUNER: It was in the back.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, who was the pharmacist?

MR. BRUNER: Bill Bass.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, we, we would, actually, vacation with them, the Basses. That

was later on, but we, we went, we would go down to south Florida. One time, I don't

know if you remember this or not, but in the back of the store was a huge sailfish. But

anyway, the Basses had a small-frame girl, and she caught this while we were down

there. It was like four families of us went down there, and we vacationed. Because I

was the only child, so my parents would connect me with another family that had

children, so I wouldn't be by myself. So, anyway, she caught this huge sailfish down

there. And, and he had it hanging in the store in later years.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I kind of remember that now that you mention it.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, it was above the, the pharmacy counter. It was probably eight

feet long. It was a huge fish. I was sick in the bottom of the boat, seasick, and I didn't

fish, I didn't put a, a line in the water I was so sick. I didn't get out of the harbor before I

was seasick. But, she, she caught that big fish.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember Doc Overstreet that used to work there in that

drug, drug store. Might've been before you remember.

MR. BRUNER: I remember him, I sure do. I do remember him. I do remember him.

But, they had a tremendous business there. Another thing I remember, too, on the,

next door was the barber shop, and I was fascinated with that barber shop. There were

three barbers in there, and they had the pictures of the dogs. You know, I don't know if

you remember what, the pictures I'm talking about. It seems like there were dogs in

barber chairs, or something. But anyway, just a small, little shop, you know, and

anyway, I remember going in there. This was in the, at the time when there were a lot

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of flat tops. I remember people were sitting, you know, in the chairs. They probably had

chairs for, maybe, 10 people at the most. But, people were standing in line, all the way

around the building (phone rings) to get a (phone rings) 'Scuse me. (phone rings) Get

that turned off. But anyway, the, they were all the way around the corner of the

building, waiting to get their hair cut, on Friday afternoons. They'd gotten paid, or

whatever, but I always thought that was fascinating, because I would go up there.

Another thing that was fascinating about that parking lot is, my friend and I, we would,

we would, sort of, go into that parking lot. There was a phone booth there, and so, if

we ever, we would, like, scavenge for money sometimes. It was different back then.

Parents didn't just give you money, every time you asked for it. You know, they, they

would, money was harder to come by and they hung onto it a little bit more than, than

the current parents do. (phone rings) So, we'd, we would look in the parking lot for, for

coins, you know, because we'd take that and go in there and buy candy, you know. Or

go to a movie. So, anyway, we were, we were up in that parking lot, or in that shopping

center all the time.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You remember who was in the first chair in the barber shop? He

was the owner of the barber shop, too.

MR. BRUNER: Was it Breeden?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Correct.

MR. BRUNER: He was, I remember him because his brother had a barber, barber

shop, too, actually, in the shopping center, and, that, my dad owned in the west end.

Yeah, he, that, that was, well, it was, it was a, a manly place to go. Let's put it that way.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, on Saturdays, most people got haircuts most every week, you

know.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: It was short hair in those days.

MR. BRUNER: Short hair.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, of course, the flat top was stylish.

MR. BRUNER: Or, we called a "burr," you know.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: It was a burr.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Burr, or the flat top ...

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... was the haircut.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Breeden's son's still a barber today, and has a shop here in town.

MR. BRUNER: Really?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, down on East Division Road, sure does.

MR. BRUNER: I definitely remember him.

MR. HUNNICUTT: When you looked at the building, the original parking lot's there and

the original building caught on fire, and they've replaced it, but if you look at the

building, the barber shop was on the right side of the building.

MR. BRUNER: Yes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Drug store, grocery store, and beauty shop, and then the Laughing

Monkey was on the ...

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MR. BRUNER: On the left.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... on the left side. But, (coughs) Excuse me. It was quite a treat to,

for the neighborhood to go there, just to go in the drug store and the grocery store.

MR. BRUNER: It was just jam packed with people. I don't know where everybody

parked, because, I mean, it was ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, there's parking across the street ...

MR. BRUNER: Across the street ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... quite a bit, you remember?

MR. BRUNER: ... and the, and a lot of them parked over there, but, in over next to the

church, people parked there. Church of Christ.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned your father owned that grocery store. Tell me about

that.

MR. BRUNER: You know, I, he didn't own it very long. It burned. When he owned it, it

burned. That's when the shopping center burned. We were, actually, I'm thinking, we

were, actually, in New Orleans. I think it burned on Easter weekend, maybe. I can't

remember exactly. There's something about that, but it, it burned, and that's when he

owned it. I don't know what happened to, I don't even know what the cause of the fire

was.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I think they had electrical problems.

MR. BRUNER: Somewhere. It was an older building.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, tell me about, let's talk about your father's business. Bruner's

Market used to be down in, where the, what is that place that's there, the food market

that's in there now.

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MR. BRUNER: United.

MR. HUNNICUTT: United Grocery on the corner of the ...

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... Turnpike and Louisiana. When did your father start that

business?

MR. BRUNER: Well, the, he started out, this was in, like, 1945, my mother was going

to a small store where, where, now, is the First Baptist Church, right in that area.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Off of the Turnpike.

MR. BRUNER: Off the Turnpike.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Lafayette and First Baptist.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.

MR. BRUNER: Ok. There was a group of stores in there, and they were, my dad said,

they were huts. They were 16 by 16 huts, with the, with a pyramid-shaped roof, Ok.

So, there were three of those put together. So, my mother would shop there some.

Back then, it was produce, and just had, it wasn't a full on grocery store, Ok. So,

anyway, my mother would shop there, to buy some of her, her groceries. So, anyway,

she asked this guy that owned it, said, "Would you be interested in selling the store?"

And, he said, "Yes, I would." He thought Oak Ridge was going to shut down. You

know, it wouldn't be, it was just a temporary town, is how he felt about it. So, she said,

"Well, I'll bring my husband over here to meet with you after he gets off work." So, they

went over there that evening. My mother, they had saved up, you know, quite a bit of

money. So, I think they paid, I think they paid him $3,000, lock, stock and barrel, for

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that store. Then, then he moved down to, to, he moved it, it got larger and moved

down to where the old bowling alley used to be, Ark Lanes. There was a building in

there, so he moved into there. He really, I mean, it, it did real well. He had a

tremendous meat business. He had, like, six butchers in there, at one time, cutting

meat. Weren't many grocery stores. I think, Kroger’s, A&P, one or two other stores.

But, he had a good-sized store there. One thing that was unique, and, see, this was

during the war and everything was rationed. So, he had the relationship with the

commissary in Kentucky, up in the mining camp. So, when they got their ration, they

get the ration of bananas, and soap, and a lot of things that these miners didn't buy

much of, you know. So, he would go, he would say, "Order all you can order, your limit.

And then, I'll buy everything." Everything, and every, you know, anything you've got

that you don't want, I'll buy it. So, you know, they would just do it for him, as a favor,

because he was in the family. So, he would, he would get all their excess. So, he'd

say, "Max out bananas." So, when all these other stores wouldn't have bananas, or

wouldn't have soap, or they'd be out of something, he'd have it. He had always, so, he

was known for having everything that you were looking for. So, he would, he, he did

very well there. So, what happened was, this was, I think, in '56 when they started

Downtown Shopping Center?

MR. HUNNICUTT: No, it was '55.

MR. BRUNER: '55.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Something, maybe, early.

MR. BRUNER: Well, that's when he, he had to do something. He had an opportunity to

stay there, or move. So, he decided that he, he was going to move. So, he decided to

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move west. There was an old cafeteria building down there that was abandoned. He

said there were even trees growing inside. Just an abandoned building. So, he re --

bought the building and remodeled it.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall who he, who owned the building?

MR. BRUNER: I, I’m not sure who owned that building. I don't know if the government

still owned the building, or not. But, he bought it. Seemed like he told me he paid, for

the entire building and the land, and everything, maybe, $20,000. $20,000.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, let's back up. That was the municipal building, where you

were just talking about, where he had his grocery store. That was the name of that

building that sits back behind where CVS is now.

MR. BRUNER: Yes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, Lizzie's Market was in there at one time. Do you recall that?

MR. BRUNER: I don't recall that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I believe it was after your dad left.

MR. BRUNER: I think she did go in there, didn't she?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, and ...

MR. BRUNER: Well, wait, though ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: See, she was in there, and the barber shop was in there, as well,

before, when they started Downtown area.

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, the barber shop went to Woodland Shopping Center.

MR. BRUNER: Ok.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: I used to go in there. But, Lizzie had a market in there. There was a

hardware in there, at one time, too. But, I don't know how long she was in there, 'til she

moved down to, what is that road? Well, the signs down there now.

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Next to where the pizza place is. But, anyway, yeah, she was in

there for a while. Must've been after your dad left.

MR. BRUNER: It couldn't've been for long, because they ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: No, it wasn't.

MR. BRUNER: Right, because they, they were starting construction.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Right. And, she had a man that worked in there called, named,

"Slim." He was a tall guy.

MR. BRUNER: I remember Slim

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, and ...

MR. BRUNER: I remember Slim.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... the unique thing about him was, he always ...

MR. BRUNER: And he was slim.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, he was tall, and slim ...

MR. BRUNER: Yes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and he always wore an apron, and he was always in the

produce.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, if you wanted a watermelon, you remember, you'd go in, and

they'd plug, plug it.

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MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: They'd cut a plug out of it ...

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, we did that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and let you taste it.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: But anyway, so, when your father moved to the store on

Louisiana ...

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... there. Do you recall what year, you think that's about '55,

somewhere in that area, or before that?

MR. BRUNER: I would say about, it's probably about '5- ... '56, '57. Let's see, I was ...

six or seven-years-old, I was pretty young, but I remember going down there during the

remodeling, the process. I remember, you know, when he, when he opened the store,

the grand opening, so to speak. It was ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, let's back up a minute. You said he worked at K-25. Do you

recall what he did down there?

MR. BRUNER: He was in construction or something. I don't know what he did,

actually. He didn't really talk about it to me. His goal was to get into Oak Ridge and

start a business. I mean, that's, that's basically what he always wanted to do. He

wanted to come to Oak Ridge to live here, and, you know, buy a business or start a

business. So, that's, that's, that was the main goal, in the beginning.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, the business he first bought there is, was, kind of, west of

First Baptist Church. There was a, it's kind of a slanted road.

19

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: That we have some photographs of that, by the way.

MR. BRUNER: I, it's called General Produce Company.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: I don't know if you'd seen that, or not.

MR. HUNNICUTT: It's quite interesting because a lot of people don't remember that.

MR. BRUNER: No, no they don't.

MR. HUNNICUTT: So, he bought that, then moved down to the present location we

just referred to. And now, is the building that's down there now on the, I guess, the, if

you're looking at the front of the store, on the right. There's some other added on. Was

that added on, or was that part of the cafeteria?

MR. BRUNER: That was part of that cafeteria.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you ... ?

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, that whole building, that whole footprint, there, that's there now,

is, was part of the building, with no additions.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall some of the people that worked for him in the grocery

store?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, Hoyt Padgett, you know, he worked for my

dad. I guess, he started working, probably, 1950? Then, Jeanette Smith, she, she was

there in the '40s, and she stayed with me, even, after, until she was up in her '80s, I

think. (phone rings) Pardon me one second. Thought I had that turned off.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Nobody wants you until you can't be talked to.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, I know, exactly.

20

MR. HUNNICUTT: So, you went down, I guess, and started being involved in the

grocery business at a young age.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about that.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh. Well, my dad, he would, he would close the store every

other night, and then he worked every other Sunday, Ok. Mr. Padgett was the store

manager. But anyway, so, my dad, he would come home for dinner every, you know,

every night, even though he worked, he would still be there at six o'clock for dinner,

and he would go back to work about seven, and close up the store. But, I would go

with him many, many nights, you know, I'd go back, and my mother would go,

occasionally, too, and do her shopping. She didn't drive, so she would do her big

shopping. But, my dad would bring home, you know, groceries, each and every night.

Another thing, I'm going to sidetrack a little bit about that. My mother, she was, like,

they got married during the Depression, see. So, if you looked in our refrigerator, and

looked in the cabinets, you'd have no idea that, that this family owned a grocery store,

because she would buy a little jar of mayonnaise, a little jar of mustard, a quart of milk,

a quart of orange juice. There would be hardly anything in the refrigerator or the

freezer or the cabinets. She didn't have any junk food. She would give me, when I

came home from school, she would give me a box of raisins, she would cut up an

apple. There were no candy bars. She'd buy, like, six Cokes a week, and she'd keep

those under the sink, you know, in the kitchen. So, my friends would come to my

house, and they would think, we've hit a gold mine. These people own a grocery store.

They're going to have Oreos, they're going to have junk food, you know, you know, all

21

over the place in this kitchen. They’d look in there (laughs) and there wouldn't be

anything. She cooked all the vegetables fresh. Hardly, I mean, only thing she bought,

like, frozen broccoli, LeSueur peas, I mean, canned fruit, if it was, you know, in the

wintertime. But, everything was fresh, she cooked everything fresh, so ... She, the

meat, she would get that daily, so she didn't freeze it or keep it in there. So, she'd have

bacon, and eggs, and, like I say, just very little bit in her refrigerator or freezer or

cabinets. Just, you know, she didn't waste anything. That's just how she was brought

up, plus, going through the Depression, you know, made a impression on her. But, she

was, kind of, a minimalist, too. She, she ironed everything. She ironed, she even

ironed my t-shirts. She ironed towels. She ironed, of course, tablecloths, sheets, pillow

cases, you name it, she, shirts, pants, anything and everything. She didn't, she didn't

watch TV very much except in the evenings, with us. During the day, she was, like, on

the job. That was her job, you know, to be, like, a maid. You know, she took care of me

and my father, and she made sure, you know, there was a pie on the table, a

tablecloth, candles, flowers, I mean, you know, it was, it was set, you know, for a king.

I mean, it was, she’d have a salad. She always had a well-balanced meal, had the

starch, had the green vegetable, you know. Always, if she didn't have a green tossed

salad, she'd have, maybe, a pear with cottage cheese and, paprika on the top of it. I

mean, it was like eating in a, at a, I won't say totally gourmet, because it was more

country cooking, but, it was, it was, you know, something. I thought everybody ate that

way, or lived that way. I was, I didn't realize that not everybody, you know, lived that

way until I went into service.

22

MR. HUNNICUTT: You remember when your mother used to iron your jeans, or put

them on, did you, do you ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, on those pant stretchers?

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... remember pant stretchers?

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You put the pants on them.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, when you take them off, they'd about near stand up by

their selves.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, you know, we didn't wear a lot of jeans, back then, in the early

days. I don't remember wearing a lot of blue jeans. Do you remember wearing them?

MR. HUNNICUTT: I do.

MR. BRUNER: I, I just, you know, I don't remember a lot of, I do remember those,

though. I, my mother would, I mean, it was a long time before, you know, she had a

washing machine. She washed everything on her own, by her hand. She just did a lot

of stuff that you wouldn't think. I mean, they had the money to do, but she just did it,

kind of, the way she'd always done it. She finally got a washer, and a dryer. But, I

remember, but, I remember hanging clothes up. Especially living up on New York. I

remember hanging, her hanging the clothes out on the clothesline.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did she have a wringer type washing machine that she used?

MR. BRUNER: She just didn't have that?

MR. HUNNICUTT: A washboard?

MR. BRUNER: I think she washed it in the sink.

23

MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably.

MR. BRUNER: I really do. I think she washed it ... One interesting thing, too, up there,

there on New York Avenue. One night, she was washing dishes after supper, and so,

there was a Peeping Tom, or at least one or maybe, if not more than one, here in Oak

Ridge. So, she was washing dishes, and she looked up, and some man was in the

window watching her. So, it, it startled her, but, and then, my dad had come home, and

he was out on the back porch, and they had screened in the back porch on that B

house. So, they had a wicker couch out there, with a cushion. So, he laid down there,

Ok. So, I guess it was, probably, maybe, eight o'clock, you know, when she decided to

go and finish up the dishes and clean up the kitchen. But, anyway, so, she went out

and told my dad, woke him up and said, you know, there's a Peeping Tom. So, he got

up, and searched the yard, and couldn't find anybody, but it was, they told me that

there was Peeping Toms here. They also said that there was a scientist here that was

a known Peeping Tom and he'd been caught, and they said that they had to, to keep

somebody on his tail 24 hours a day, because they were afraid that he was going to

get arrested and they needed him, you know, for, with the project. So, I don't know if

that was the same Peeping Tom, or not, but you don't hear that expression any more.

But ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember in, in the B house, that, did they have any of

those tubs, or sinks in the utility room?

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, I know exactly ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Is that where your mother did her washing?

MR. BRUNER: The concrete ones?

24

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.

MR. BRUNER: Yes, I remember. They had the metal legs, concrete, concrete tub, I

remember those. I certainly do. Those, remember, matter of fact, I bet you, that's what

she had, and washed in that concrete, because it was a two-sink tub.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Right.

MR. BRUNER: I bet you that's what, what she washed in.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Because the kitchen sink was a single sink, if I remember right, in

those houses ...

MR. BRUNER: It was a single sink.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... originally. And, I can just see her, with the scrub board, probably,

scrubbing the clothes one side, and rinsing the other side.

MR. BRUNER: She was, probably, in that concrete sink.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Wringing, wringing them out by hand ...

MR. BRUNER: Wringing them out by hand.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and hang them on the clothesline.

MR. BRUNER: Yes. It's just impossible ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember some of the people that lived there close to you

guys?

MR. BRUNER: Well, Mr. Bass lived across the street, Frances and Bill Bass, the

Dunnigans, the Wilcoxes, the, let's see, the Davidsons, the, who else was there, the

Manlys, Bill Manly. Let's see, who else?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, Bill Manly was a Scout Master at one time.

MR. BRUNER: Yes. He had a big position, I think ...

25

MR. HUNNICUTT: He was ...

MR. BRUNER: ... at Union Carbide.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... a great man.

MR. BRUNER: He was.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Great-hearted man.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah. I'm trying to think of the other person. I will ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the Nichols that lived up on the ...

MR. BRUNER: Yes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... corner up above you?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah. Yes. Was that in that F house?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.

MR. BRUNER: Well, see ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: They remodeled it ...

MR. BRUNER: ... we ended up buying that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... remember, and put on the back.

MR. BRUNER: My parents came back to that neighborhood, and bought that F house.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Really?

MR. BRUNER: After they moved around town, they ended up back there.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I used to mow grass for her, and she would stand out, and watch

me to make sure I didn't mess her flowers up, or something. And, finally, she trusted

me, but, man, she was a very particular lady, for ...

MR. BRUNER: Well, you know, she had, she had a hothouse on the back.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.

26

MR. BRUNER: You remember that?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Uh-huh.

MR. BRUNER: So, my dad had built, oh, gosh, this was, I don't know whether you

want to [know this], you know, I keep going off track here, a little bit, but, as I was

saying, they, they ended up buying that house, Ok. This was back in, like, 1969,

maybe? '70? Maybe '70, they bought that house. My dad built this room that was

above the carport, and called it, sort of, the penthouse. This was his Florida room. I

loved this house. They had, they had solid walnut cabinets in, in the kitchen.

Gorgeous. He'd replaced, raised the ceiling in the foyer. They put, back, this is back in

1970, the doorknobs were a hundred dollars apiece, on the doors. And, you know,

now, that would be about five or six hundred apiece, for the doorknobs. They, it, he

had really ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Were they glass or decorative type doors?

MR. BRUNER: No, no, they were solid brass, and they were just gorgeous. He had

solid brass hinges. But, so he built this penthouse, and it was, probably, about, maybe

16 by 16, Ok. He put, he had a cedar wine closet upstairs. It was going to be his little

reading room, sitting room. He had a, he had a bath up there, a shower, and a, just a

sink, commode. So, this was coming off of the, of the family room, which was an

addition. But anyway, after my dad died, I had to have somebody stay with my mother.

She was, just, helpless, almost. So, she really grieved very hard. So, this lady was,

was with her during the week. Then, my wife and I would stay there on the weekends.

But anyway, so, one Wednesday morning, my mother called me. This is while this lady

was staying with her. She said, she said, "Something really odd happened last night

27

and I don't really, I can't explain it." I said, "What happened?" She said, "I woke up in

the middle of the night, and I heard, like, water running." She said, "I searched the

house over, and finally, I finally found the water was turned on upstairs in, in your," she

called it, "my dad's room." It was turned on full blast, it wasn't dripping, it was fully

open, Ok. So, I thought, hmm, this is strange. It's not a drip. Somebody, you know, has

had to turn it on. So, I, sort of, dismissed it a little bit, and I didn't really know how to

address that, you know, and .. So, the next Wednesday, she called me, and she said,

"You won't believe this." She said, "That water's running again. It ran last night and I

went upstairs and it was on full blast again." So, anyway, so I got, I don't know if you

remember, remember him or not, but his name was Pesh. He was a plumber. So, I

called him, and I said, you know, "Go up there to my mother's house, and see what

you make of this." I told him what was going on. And so, he called me back, and he

says, "I've checked out everything." He says, "This is not," he says, "valves just don't

open full." He says, "I've checked everything there," and he says, "It sounds spooky to

me." That was his explanation. So, anyway, so, I told a preacher friend of mine about

it, and he says, "I'll come up there, and pray over this house." Said, "May be an evil

spirit, or, or something some spiritual thing." So, he came up there, prayed over the

house, and it never happened again. Now, I don't know if that did it, or she got up in

the middle of her, in the night, and turned that water on, you know ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, didn't remember.

MR. BRUNER: ... sleepwalking. Or, that lady that was there got up in the middle of the

night and turned it on in her sleep. But, it was up some steps, you know.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember, you was talking about Pesh, the plumber. If I'm

not mistaken, his father, I think, worked out at, oh, what was that building? Spalla ... Up

there in the warehouses. And, they had a warehouse, in one of those warehouses,

they had their plumbing business in.

MR. BRUNER: Mmm-hmm. We just called it Warehouse Road, warehouses. Is that

what you're talking about?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, but there was a building supply. It used to be in ...

MR. BRUNER: ANCO?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, ANCO. You know, they were down here where the ...

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... Buick Company used to be, and the laundry, and now it's

Heritage, I think, Church, is there. Yeah, it was ANCOs, and I think his father worked

as a salesman, or worked in the back, in the warehouse, and they had that plumbing.

Anyway, I wouldn't never thought of that unless you said that. Let's get back to the

grocery business ...

MR. BRUNER: Ok.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... again, back down at, in the Jefferson area. What do you

remember, as far as the, the prices of some of the foods, in those days?

MR. BRUNER: I have to stop and think about it. Just, from some of the old newspaper

ads that I've seen in the past, I just, I do remember the cigarettes were so cheap. I

mean, 18 cents a package, or whatever. You know, I can't really remember ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, when you came in the front door, describe how it was set up,

where the registers were, and how that was.

29

MR. BRUNER: One thing was, yeah, there were three registers up front. My dad had

an office up front, which was built up, raised up off the floor level, so you could, really,

look over the entire store, keep an eye on, you know, everything in the store. Then,

straight down the first aisle, there was, the, it was a beer case, and then, it went into

produce, and it went into soft drinks on the left side, dairy on the right side. As you

went around the corner there, at the end of the aisle, it was the meat department. You

came around, and it was frozen food area. But, you know, back then, frozen food was,

just, really, starting out back in the '50s. It wasn't many. It was ice cream. A few

vegetables, and then, of course, you know, TV dinners. I mean, that was a big deal

when those, the TV dinners, came out. I mean, Swanson's ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about TV dinners. What was so popular about those

things?

MR. BRUNER: I don't know. People, for some reason, they just, they loved those TV,

those Swanson TV dinners. They advertised them on TV all the time, and they saw

people watching TV, I mean, they would show people watching TV, eating that dinner

on a TV tray. So, it just all, just fell right into place. You know, my mother, of course,

you know, she didn't ever buy them, because she purchased everything fresh. But, you

know, I, I remember having ... Pot pies. Pot pies. She did, she did buy frozen pot pies.

But, there, like I say, there wasn't many, not like it is today. I mean, it's half the grocery

store now. Everything, anything from frozen pizza, wasn't heard of. You know, no hors

d'oeuvres. It was, mainly, vegetables, fruits, vegetables.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You remember the TV dinners came in aluminum ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

30

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... pan and you had to put them in the oven.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Same way with pot pies ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah, pot pies, you put them in the oven. Had Banquet, and

Swanson's. But, like I say, those were the, there wasn't many, many items in frozen

food. And Birdseye, you know, was one of the biggest manufacturers of frozen foods,

and it was vegetables.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I remember the selection: of course, pot pies of turkey, and

chicken, but the TV dinners was, like, a chicken, or turkey, or something, and dressing,

and mashed potatoes, and some sides.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, turkey and dressing, fried chicken, and roast beef. I think that

was about it.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: You know, it wasn't like it now, it's and gelatos, tacos, I mean, but back

then, it was, I think, it was just those three items.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, where did your father get his meat from?

MR. BRUNER: Well, that was another thing. He would buy the meat, sides of beef, full

sides of beef, and then, they would come in, and they would put them on the, on the

chopping block. Then, the butcher would break them down, they call it, "break it down,"

the different parts of the, of the beef. Then, hang them in the meat locker. Then, they

would age some. But, it was just, you know, it was better meat that what ... Now, it

comes in, you know, this was air dried, so that side of beef came in, you know, with

this much fat still on it, you know, hard, solid, white fat. Now, it comes in a plastic bag,

31

you know, full of juice, you know, liquid from the meat, and it's just different. Back then,

the meat was just so much more flavorable, flavorful. Oh, and we had, you know,

absolutely, the best meat in town, there's no question about it. You know, we just, the

butchers, you know, I would, I would, you know, taste meat from other stores, you

know, it just didn't have, it just didn't have the flavor. I mean, our, and we would get the

meat, you know, from Lay’s Packing Company, Swift Packing Company, right out of

Knoxville. And they, that's, you know, they actually ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did ...

MR. BRUNER: ... slaughtered the, the animals.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did he ever use the, the meat place out there where, oh, you know,

it burnt, in the early days, there on Coal Yard Road, I think it is.

MR. BRUNER: I know what you're talking about. Wasn't it the ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Tindall's used to have a building supply there on, as part of it. Oh ...

Did he ever buy from them, that you recall?

MR. BRUNER: I don't recall him buying, you know. I also think he might've, out of

Knoxville, Selecto was over there. Lay’s, Selecto, and Swift. But, it just, it's, now it's all

the mid, in Iowa.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, that, that meat locker, what I can't, the name of it doesn't ring

a bell.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, it's on the tip of my tongue, too. But, it was almost like the, Cold,

Oak Ridge Cold Storage, or something like that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, that's right. Cold Storage.

MR. BRUNER: Wasn't it something, I think it's something, Cold Storage.

32

MR. HUNNICUTT: That was built for the Manhattan Project, so they had storage for all

the cafeterias ...

MR. BRUNER: Yes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and, the food. Back to the meat, you would display the meat in a

meat counter, open front, didn't you?

MR. BRUNER: Well, when he went to west Oak Ridge, it was self-serve. I mean, he'd

already packaged, everything was packaged. When they were, when he was

Downtown, where the Ark Bowling Lanes, excuse me, was, that was all service

counter, you know. That was all, you know, you told the, the butcher what you wanted

out of the case, and they would wrap it up.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And what'd they wrap it in?

MR. BRUNER: Back then, it was, like, a wax paper, and then, and then, wrap it in a, in

a regular, sort of pinkish color meat wrap paper. Meat, with the pink, I guess, that was,

that was sort of the identifying if it was meat in that package. But, course, you know,

they'd weight it up, and mark on there what, you know, the price.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, now, the butchers, they, they, kind of, wore a, kind of uniform

of some sort, didn't they?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah, everybody was in a white ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me what that ...

MR. BRUNER: ... white uniforms.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... consisted of.

MR. BRUNER: They were, well, they just had a butcher's smock on, which was almost

like a doctor's coat, now, you know.

33

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did, were, were they union ...

MR. BRUNER: No.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... affiliated?

MR. BRUNER: No. Not his workers. I think that the ones that Kroger’s had. That was,

that was always an, you know, issue there, you know, because Kroger’s paid their

meat cutters more, you know. But, not everybody could work at Kroger’s, and so, you

know. That's what the dilemma is sometimes, you know, if you're independent, you're

trying to compete with, with chain stores, sometime it's hard. But, if you've got the

quality, you know, people, there's a lot of people that want, make sure they get the

quality.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your dad ever give credit to certain customers?

MR. BRUNER: He did have credit. He had credit in more ways than one. If you came

in there, and you forgot your wallet, or your checkbook, he just signed your name, you

know, on the receipt, and, you know, you came in and paid it later, you know. So, or,

and we, he ran credit accounts, and people would just call, and never had anybody, we

didn't even send any statements out, they'd just call and say, so at the end of the

month, we'd get it ready, you know, first of, of the, of the month, we'd get a, we'd get all

their, their tickets that they'd signed during the month, we'd total them up, and then,

you know, and they would call and say, "How much is my bill?" And, we'd tell them,

and the next time they went in, come in, you know, they would bring a check. But,

yeah, he had, he had quite a few people that would pay, just monthly.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you all ever deliver groceries?

34

MR. BRUNER: No, we didn't deliver, unless someone we, we, somebody called, said,

"Hey," you know, "we're sick. Could somebody bring us some food?" We'd always do

that. We would, we did a lot of things, like, people would call, like, for instance, you

know, on a Saturday, they'd say, “We've had a death in the family, and we can't get,

the bank's closed,” and, of course, then there wasn't any credit cards, or anything.

They'd say, "We need five hundred dollars," or "We need eight hundred dollars," you

know, “until we get back, and would you hold a check for us?” So, they'd come in, write

a check to us for eight hundred, we'd just hold it, you know, until they came back, and

then they would pick it up, and pay us cash back. But, we's almost like one of these

pay check in advance.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: You know, where you're getting money, you know. But, we would do

that quite often, because people, it was not like it is now, with the banks, you know,

and grocery stores, and ATMs, and all that. Banks closed early, and, and so, there was

no place to, to get money. You couldn't, you didn't have credit cards. He was the first

person in town, a grocery store, to take credit cards, you know. It was a lot of firsts. I

think he was the first one to have an air conditioned store. First one that did the

barbecue chickens, see, that was a big thing. They had a barbecue machine, and so ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that done in the store?

MR. BRUNER: It was in the store. He had a barbecue machine, in the store. That was,

that was, he really did well with that, because it, nobody else had it, you know. Another

unique thing about the store was, our aisles, they weren't that long, in the first place,

but we had cut-throughs, so, you see, so halfway down the aisle, you didn't have to go

35

all the way down the end of the aisle, to come back, you know, to this aisle. They make

you do that, you know, so you'll shop the whole entire store, and see something you

want to buy. But, this way, we had this detour, and we eventually had to close those

cut-throughs, because it was so many products coming out, we were limited. We had

no place to put them, so we eventually closed them in because it picked up a lot of

shelving space, you know. We had, like, four aisles, I guess, yeah, and then you take

the cut-throughs on both side of those, you know, it's a lot of shelving space. So,

anyway, he said, he was just so upset because we closed that, because he said he

loved that, because, see, he could, he could go down this aisle, cut through this aisle,

back down this aisle, and be all over the store in two seconds. Now, he had to go up

and down the aisles, but they weren't that long to begin with. But, still, he said, I just

loved that about that store, about, you know, about Bruner's, because you can get in

and out of there quick. And, of course, we, we would always have, in our rush hour,

we'd always have three cashiers there, you know, from, like, three-thirty, or four o'clock

in the afternoon, until six, we'd have, you know, three cashiers, and not one cashier

with two of them empty like today, you know. We'd have three cashiers there with bag

boys. So, we were ready, you know. So, we were always trying to be ready for

business, and, and, you know, it was all service, you know, take care of everybody.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the store hours?

MR. BRUNER: Well, basically, it was from nine 'til nine. He did try to close Sunday. He

wanted to close Sunday to let his employees go to church, and have a day of total rest.

Where he could have a rest day, and go to church, and not have to worry about the

store. But, it just, it just didn't work out. He just couldn't, you know, six days, it, he

36

thought it, you know, it would, they would make up, you know, by people coming in,

and shopping a little heavier, you know, either the day, you know, Saturday or Monday.

But it, it started to shrink.

MR. HUNNICUTT: I was going to ask you, Carl, to describe the, the type buggies that

people used to use to put their groceries in, and then, when you came up to check out,

describe how all that looked.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh. Well, they weren't these mega-sized buggies. They weren't,

they were more of a, I say, "standard," but, you know, now, these buggies are huge.

But these are, these were, you know, smaller, not miniaturized buggies, but, just a

smaller buggy. But you have to, you know, think about the, the variety of items that,

that we had in the store back then, and the packaging. Now, 18 rolls of toilet tissue,

you know, six rolls of, of paper towels. They were all just, everything was single, you

know. Maybe four rolls of toilet tissue, but never any more than one roll of, you know,

everything was smaller quantities. Now, it's everything bigger, bigger, so, it didn't take

as much. But, the other thing, he had some small children's buggies, and the kids love

it. I mean, these were like for small kids, like, little girls would want to go shopping with

their mother, and they were these small little buggies, that, like a little, a little, even a

four-year-old could push. The little kids just loved, they'd bring their doll, and they'd put

it in there, and they'd be, you know, imitating their mother, which I really love to see

now days, where they, you know, don't see many girls. I do in my church, but you see

these little girls with a doll, it's just rare to see a little girl, that's got a doll, that's treating

it like it's their baby. You know, with a bottle, and, you know, really, being a mother,

you know, they're training to be a mother. So, they would, they would go around with

37

their mother pushing that little cart. But, we had a, there wasn't, early days, we didn't

have the automatic, you know, belt-driven check-out lane. He had, sort of, a, he'd

made a apparatus where you had a, sort of, a handle on it, and you, sort of, just would

pull it, and it would scoot the groceries up to the cashier. But, he was, he was a very

good, my dad was a very good, he had, sort of, an engineering mind, and he was,

also, able to, he was a great woodworker. He had a, he had a guy that worked for him,

course he was, he was a carpet, excuse me, he was a cabinet maker. He was just,

they both were perfectionists, and they built things, just, unbelievably. He was the one

that remodeled the shopping center. Even this, this ... He got a cabinet builder to, to

build things, not just a carpenter. He was a cabinet maker. He, actually, owned that D

house up there. My dad and, his name was Mr. Womack, and he lived at Solway, up

by the, near the Dragon Inn. Do you remember the Dragon Inn? But, anyway, he lived

up there, and he had a shop up there. But, my dad built me a playhouse, and you

wouldn't believe it. He made miniature down-sized furniture in it. Had a carport, and I

had pedal cars, pedal tractor. It was just like a little house. But, I never played in it

much. I was too, I was too young. I guess I was about six or seven, and I was an only

child, so, I didn't have an opportunity to go out there and play, so ended up, he, he

built it so it would disassemble. It was incredible. So, he, he put it, he raffled it off. The

guy that owned, I think, Downtown Cab, won it. If you remember, right beside the

Western Auto, to the left, it was a cab stand. That was that, that was, he'd built a, a

base for it to sit on, because it was, the ceiling height was lower. So, he had built this,

maybe, two foot high base to set it ... And, that was, that was the cab stand for

Downtown Cab.

38

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, let's go back. Was the counter sort of ...

MR. BRUNER: Ok.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... made out of wood, and it had a ...

MR. BRUNER: It was made out of ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... rail on the ...

MR. BRUNER: ... hardwood.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. And it had a ...

MR. BRUNER: It was just, yeah, it was ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... a sideboard so the groceries wouldn't fall off in the floor.

MR. BRUNER: Yes, it had the side, and then, it was, sort of, U-shaped. Then, it had a,

you know, wooden handle on it, but it was a strong, you know, whatever he built, it

was, it would last a lifetime. So, it, it was, like I say, it was, it was homemade, it wasn't

factory made, and he built that counter, the check-out counter, and he had that, he had

that cabinet builder to build those check-out lanes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, how was the pricing on the, each item? How was that done?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, back then, it was a “jump stamper,” or, you know. It was done with

a, it was almost like a, one of, a date stamper, you, where you turn the wheel, you

know, and then, it would, we called it a jump stamper. Then, it had an ink pad and, you

know, re-ink itself. It, pretty much, was a, was a permanent price on there. But ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what time, if you got new merchandise in the store, somebody

had to price all of that.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, it was ...

39

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, how was that determined? How did you father determine the

price, and how much he wanted to charge for something?

MR. BRUNER: Well, the, it depended, it would just would depend on what item it was,

you know. If it was an item that was a slow mover, like, for instance, capers, you know,

where you didn't, you know, sell that many, or, ifsomebody bought that, you know, it

was an item that, you know, you might make 30 percent, on that item, but, say

something like coffee, you may make four percent. You wouldn't make hardly anything.

There was certain items in the store, like baby food, you sold it for cost. People don't

realize a lot of things in the store, cooking oil, for some reason, were just some items in

the store you just, basically, didn't make very much money on.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that due to the fact that, maybe, people would come in to buy

that, but they'd buy something else?

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, you try to get the mothers in ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: ... to buy the baby food, and they would buy something else. But, that

was, sort of, just established, you know, for some reason, but, was just industry-wide,

you know, of the major stores. Not that we competed, you know, you know, nose-to-

nose with the Kroger’s, and A&P, but we were close with every, you know, with those

stores. And, we were ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you, do you recall, were you cheaper than the chain stores?

MR. BRUNER: Depend, you know, I always, I always told people this, they said,

"Well," you know, "are you more expensive than the chain stores?" you know. I said,

"Well, depends on what you buy," you know. It all depends on what you buy, you

40

know. I can be cheaper than they, or I can be more expensive. It just depends on the

items that you buy every week, you know. If you go into our meat department, we're

going to give you a better quality meat for, basically, the same price, you know, so,

basically, you're getting a better deal. But, again, if we've got our two liter Cokes on

sale for $0.88, and theirs are $1.09, you know, it just, like I say, it depends. But, we

always tried to, you know, we competed with them, to a certain ... we weren't, we

weren't way out of line, and we weren't, like, weren't, like, 10 percent higher. But, but

some items, we might've been, but we stayed pretty close, actually. I mean, everybody

has to make so much money.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, in those day, of course, in the early days, there was no

automated registers, you had to push the lever ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... for, and add all that up.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: People had to know their math, too, to ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... keep up with that, and not ... I gave a gal three cents yesterday,

and she stood there, and she didn't know how much change to give me ...

MR. BRUNER: Exactly.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... because she didn't put it in beforehand.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

41

MR. HUNNICUTT: But, anyway, so, you had bag boys, I presume, that bagged the

groceries. And, tell me about bagging groceries. There's a certain way you bag

groceries, if I remember right.

MR. BRUNER: Well, yeah, I mean, you put the heavy stuff in the bottom, of course,

and you don't want to overload the bag. You don't want to make the bag so heavy that,

that the bag will break, or they can't pick it up, you know. So, one thing you've got to

make sure of, is you get everything that they buy in the bag. (laughs) Because there's

nothing worse than getting home, and somebody's left something out of your bag, and

it's the very thing you need the most. And, that'll make you mad. So, you have to make

sure you get everything in the bag, and, you know, don't overload the bag, and don't,

don't get it, you know, too full, either, where it's just, you know, over, over-filled, you

know. You don't want it to get where it's overflowing at the top of the bag. So, it's

surprising, you know, you'd think that some of these kids would understand, sort of, it's

common knowledge, that, you know, of course, they hadn't had the experience, you

know, a lot of them.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, one thing I remember is that you don't mash the bread ...

MR. BRUNER: Oh, the bread, definitely.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... or those ladies would ...

MR. BRUNER: The bread goes on the very top, or even in a separate bag. It's treated

like eggs.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: Eggs and bread go, just, you put those in the same, like, a number 25

pound bag. I mean, it went into a certain size bag. One thing about that cash register,

42

though, my goodness, these things were monsters, you know. We, we had, there was

a National Cash Register guy that would come out, and he would clean them, you

know, every so often. But anyway, the, the cashiers, honestly, could check you out

faster by that, that hand-held slide that he had on there, my dad had on the check-out

lane, versus the, the belt, versus the scanner. They, the cashiers could check you out

faster today. They, they knew that register just as fast, Ok. They would just look here,

and they'd just do this, and they would just do. They'd pull this item here, put this just

like. It wouldn't be any turning around and seeing where the, they knew that the price

was going to be at the top of the can. It wasn't like, where is this, this barcode, you

know, that I'm going to have to find. Get this and do this. This way, they would just look

at this, and, do this, and hit -- by the palm of their hand -- they'd hit the add button.

Then, when they, then they would get to the end, I'll call it shifting gears. They would,

they would take this gear shifter, it was just a knob there, and they would put a

subtotal. They'd get a subtotal, and would, and then, they had a chart there to figure

the tax. And this was before, you know, the, the, a tender bottom is where, you know,

put in the amount they give you, and whatever, and it automatically tells you what you

owe. This is, this is the old math in the head style, where you, you'd count back. So,

they would look at the chart, put in the tax, and hit the total. Ok, then, they would say,

whatever, you know, 18 dollars and 39 cents. Well, somebody would give them 20

dollars. Well, they'd count back from 18 dollars and 39 cents to 20. Be 40, 50, 19, here

it is. And it was, it's faster. I say, today, you can get in a store, but you can't get out of

one. It takes forever to get checked out in the stores. Back then, it was just, we just ran

43

through. I mean, people, you know, had somebody bagging, and this cashier's

experienced. It was quick.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, when they would bag the groceries, did they put them in the

buggy that they had before? What'd they do with the bags of groceries?

MR. BRUNER: Well, either they'd just, if there was a couple, they'd just carry them in

their arms. But if it was several, they'd just put it back into the ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the bag boys take the groceries out at times?

MR. BRUNER: They took them out to the cars, yeah. Yeah, they always took them to

the cars. You know, some men wouldn't allow, they didn't allow you to help them. But,

all the women would like that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You remember when Kroger’s first came in, they had this deal

where they'd give you a number, and the buggy had a number, and you'd drive up, up

there.

MR. BRUNER: (clears throat) And, they would ... the drive around. I remember that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, they'd bring that out ...

MR. BRUNER: That seemed to work pretty well ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: ... for them.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: You know, you just, you went through the line there, people would put

their groceries right in their car.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, you mentioned a number about on a bag, certain bags had

different thickness related to a number.

44

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, it was, like, a poundage, you know. It was, and it was a, they just

had, like, a two-pound bag, or 10 pound bag, you know, it was just a size bag. 18

pound, 25 pound. So, you just pretty much, knew, you know, two pound was just a little

small bag like you'd put some candy in or, all the way up to the full size grocery bag,

and it, it wasn't based on a poundage. I can't remember what we called those. But, it

was a, you know, the standard size brown grocery sack.

MR. HUNNICUTT: When did you start, let's say, use the word, "full time," working in

the grocery store on a ...

MR. BRUNER: When I ... ?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, on a constant basis?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, that's when my dad passed away. It was in '71. I was going to UT

[University of Tennessee], and I was married, and my dad died suddenly on a

Saturday. He was, actually, at UT Hospital, because he'd had been having some chest

pains, and I was going to go over there Saturday to pick him up. My mother was over

there. So, I was in, I was in Oak Ridge, actually, lived in Knoxville near UT campus,

but, I so happened to be in Oak Ridge. So, I got the call that my dad was, you know, in

bad, bad shape, to come, you know, to the hospital. My uncle called me. I got there,

my mother said, she was just, just going nuts, you know, she was crying, she said,

"He's gone." I thought, where's he, you know, where'd they take him? Then, she, you

know, made me realize he had died. I just, I couldn't believe it. He was 58, you know.

So, it was a shocker. The very next day, you know, I had, had, kind of, long hair, the

very next day, Sunday morning, I was in the store. Basically, I was an accounting

major, and so, I never really had been in that part of the business. So, I, I had to make

45

the payroll out. But, I know I went, that morning, Sunday morning, I met Hoyt, at the

store, and, you know, we came in. Of course, he was, my dad was, like, almost like a

dad to him. I mean, they, they really cared about each other a lot. It was just, you

know, we walked in the store, and it just didn't seem the same. I mean, everything

looked different. Everything was just, without him there, with him gone, it was just, it

was just a strange feeling. We just cried. It was, it was sad.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What did ... ?

MR. BRUNER: But we just, we stopped, you know, and then, we just got on with the

business.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you continue, then, running ...

MR. BRUNER: I did.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... the store ...

MR. BRUNER: I did.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... from then on?

MR. BRUNER: I ran it.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, when did the store close?

MR. BRUNER: I sold it, like, in '93, I think, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Was, was there a particular reason you sold it, or ... ?

MR. BRUNER: Well, I just had a lot going on, at the time. I'd, really, gotten into other

things. I'd, I'd, you know. (laughs) I had another store, another grocery store, and I'd

been in the dry cleaning business. I had a restaurant. I mean, I just, really, had, kind of,

burned out, tell you the truth. And, the manager had retired, and so, it was just a lot, lot

happening at the time.

46

MR. HUNNICUTT: How many years was the store open for business?

MR. BRUNER: Well, I guess it was '45 through, like '93, you know. So ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's, let's talk a little bit about you, now. You attended Pine Valley,

and where did you go from Pine Valley?

MR. BRUNER: I went to Jefferson, the old Jefferson, up at, at Jackson Square. I was

there in the seventh grade, and that was the time, Kennedy was, was shot. I remember

that, distinctly. Then, my parents, we moved from Newcomb, my parents built a house

out on West Outer, 982 West Outer. So, I went to Robertsville the next year, in the

eighth grade. So, that was an experience, because I didn't know anybody on the west

end, very much, you know. It was a real separation between the east and the west. So,

I knew everybody then, from east Oak Ridge, and then, now, I started meeting people

from the west end of Oak Ridge. And, but it was ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you active in any sports while you were in junior high?

MR. BRUNER: Not in junior high. I ran track when I was in senior high.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And who was the track coach those, at that time?

MR. BRUNER: What was his name? Bill? I can't remember. I can't remember the

coach's name.

MR. HUNNICUTT: That doesn't ring a bell with me either.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, the, I know Scarboro, he, I, he wanted me to play football for him

at Jefferson, I mean, at Robertsville. I had long hair, and this was Beatle time, and I

had long hair, the longest hair in school. So, I was, I was fast, so he thought he wanted

me to, you know, and I was good size guy, so he wanted me to play. So, he said, he

says, "I want you to play. Would you be interested to play for me?" I said, "Yes, I

47

would." He said, "Well, you're going to have to cut that hair off." (laughs) I said, "I'm not

cutting my hair off." So, I didn't, I didn't end up playing football. But I did, when I got in

high school, I did, I did run track.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember anything about the Cold War, you know, the

Cuban Missile Crisis?

MR. BRUNER: I do remember. Of course, one thing, the siren here, the, you know,

any time that siren would go off.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Air raid siren.

MR. BRUNER: The air raid siren, I mean, you know, it was, every day, you wondered,

Is this, is this the real thing? Is this really ... ? You know, everybody was. I remember

being fearful of it, and I remember thinking about it, you know, at night, you know, in

the bed, I would think about it, you know.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Especially at two a.m., when it went off accidentally.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. (laughs)

MR. BRUNER: Well, you know, it was, it was just the, you know, they talked about it.

And, and, another thing, too. My dad, actually, was thinking about building a fallout

shelter. I mean, it got that serious that he, he, actually, went to, we went to some guy's

house down in Kingston, and went in his fallout shelter. My dad was, was seriously

thinking about building one. So, that was, really, you know, the nail in the coffin, so to

speak, with me. It's like, this is getting serious, you know, this fallout shelter, the Cold

War. Now, ironically, I'm, I'm Russian Orthodox. (laughs) So, that's my faith is of the

Orthodox faith, but on the Russian side. I'm not a Russian, of course. But, it's like the

48

Greek Orthodox, but I'm on the Russian side. So, you know. So, there's quite a few

Russians and Ukrainians that go to my church. So, they, they experienced the same

thing, you know. They, they were told this, the Americans are going to bomb us, and

they're our enemy. But, you know, they had the same feelings that we did. They were

afraid of us, and we were afraid of them. So, it's really our governments. The people

don't have a problem with us, and never did.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, do you feel like the Oak Ridge school system helped you in

your future studies?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh, this school system is, it was absolutely, I'm convinced, it

was, it was the, one of the best in the, not just the nation, in the world. I had the

classes at Oak ... that was offered at Oak Ridge High School, the teachers, you know,

I mean, they had Latin, they had German, you know, they had French one, two, three,

you know. They had, I took a class in senior year, and it was a, it was only 12 of us in

the class, and they had to get special funding for this class, because they had one

teacher for 12 people. They needed 25, you know, they wanted at least 25. But, it was

Accounting 2, and Data Processing. So, I was three hours in that course. I went in at

nine o'clock, we got out at 12 o'clock. It was Mrs. Speas so, we had Accounting 2, and

we had Data Process. So we were, we were writing computer programs. We were

doing the punch cards. We would take those punch cards out to, oh, out on

Warehouse Road, there was a computer center out there, on Warehouse Road. We'd

take them out and run those computer cards out there. But, when I finished up that

year, in that class, I could've set up books for General Motors. I could, I mean, that's

how intensive it was. I mean, I could do adjusting entries. I could do, you name it, I

49

could set up a complete set of books. That's what helped me when my dad, you know,

because I'd really, you know, got that training. But, I had friends that, you know, like, if

they, if they were in mechanical drawing, then, they went right from Oak Ridge High

School, right out to Union Carbide, you know, and they could be mechanical drawers.

And it was just amazing, the classes they had there. And, for all levels. It was, it was

just a place of true education. You, you just got a, you just got a wonderful education.

Business law, just a minute. I mean, if you were into the sciences, it was there for you,

the chemistry, too, whatever, I mean, it was there. We, sort of, had different levels, you

know, we always called, we'd term, the smartest group, the brains, and then, we had

one notch under that level, which most of us fell in, it was just the, just the average,

you know, C, B student. Then, you had one that notch just a little lower, then you had

the very ... and there wasn't many of those on the bottom line, level. But, you know, it

was, most everybody there was, you know, interested in, in their, in their education.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You mention Mrs. Speas as the teacher. Was her husband the Dr.

Speas, that had the atomic seeds, at one time.

MR. BRUNER: I think so. I remember those atomic ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah ...

MR. BRUNER: ... seeds ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... out past where ...

MR. BRUNER: ... gosh.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... the Butcher estate used to be ...

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... out there. Yeah. He, he was ...

50

MR. BRUNER: I remember that.

MR. HUNNICUTT: He irradiated seeds to enhance their growth, I believe, is what his,

or maybe, maybe, it was when we talk about seeds today, we're talking about some

kind of, of radioisotope they put in people to, for cancer.

MR. BRUNER: Right.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Maybe that's what he was involved in, not ...

MR. BRUNER: I think it was.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, not growing seeds, but that type of seed. Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: No, I think some of it was the growing seeds.

MR. HUNNICUTT: But, all of it?

MR. BRUNER: I really think so ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: ... because I remember those little packages of seeds.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Ok. Well, that place is still out there, and it's still fenced and

contaminated. I don't know what's ever going to happen to it.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, the fence is ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, yeah, it's, the whole facility's still out there, surrounded by a

fence. Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: What about that?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Off of Blockhouse Valley Road, I believe it is.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. That name just rang a bell. After you graduated from high

school, and what year was that, by the way?

51

MR. BRUNER: '69.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You went to UT for a ...

MR. BRUNER: Actually went ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... period.

MR. BRUNER: ... right in to, I, I joined, actually, joined the National Guard before I

even finished high school. I joined the National Guard, and this, you know, the month

after I graduated from high school, I went into basic training and AIT [Advanced

Industrial Training]. And so, that lasted to the end of '69, and then, when I came back,

I, I started UT.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And where'd you meet your wife?

MR. BRUNER: Actually, in the eighth grade. (laughs) The first, about the first day at

school, I guess it was, I saw her across the room, you know, we sat in alphabetical

order, and her seat, her last name started with an R, and I saw her across the room. I

just remember, I remember that day, and I, I, my eyes, you know, caught hers, and,

and we started dating, probably, by the end of the week.

MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what is her name?

MR. BRUNER: Becky, and her, and her name was Becky Reedy.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You have children?

MR. BRUNER: I had one child. I am divorced from her now, but I had one, one girl,

Emily.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Is she in the area?

MR. BRUNER: She's in Lexington, she's a school teacher. And, I've got a grandson.

Then, I've got an 18-year-old right now, by another marriage.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what is your profession today?

MR. BRUNER: Actually, a mortgage loan officer. I actually, retired, after I sold the

store, I got in the mortgage business. Anyway, it wasn't long after that, that I had an

opportunity to go to work for, for, at that time, Chase Manhattan Bank. Of course, they

merged to JP Morgan-Chase. But, I became a, actually, an assistant VP with Chase

Manhattan. I did subprime loans, and I did it on the wholesale side, meaning, I called

on mortgage companies, and banks, and I bought their mortgage paper, on the

subprime BC, is what we call it, the BC world. I did that in, in Tennessee, and

Kentucky, and I had account executives that were under me, and I managed them.

But, I did that for 11 years, and I loved it. So, I retired in 2008, because my division,

basically, shut down. It was, it was the subprime, you know, world, that caused the

upset. At least we got, we got, you know, accused of that. So, my division, basically,

shut down, so, I decided to get back in the mortgage business by doing the retail side,

and I do, excuse me, reverse mortgages for seniors, a mortgage with no payment. But,

that's what I do now. And, I love it. I love what I do.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you find that, that Oak Ridge has gained in many ways, or, or

lost ground?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, my gosh.

MR. HUNNICUTT: What's your opinion about Oak Ridge?

MR. BRUNER: It just makes me very sad, because I, I come, I love Oak Ridge. I think

the, Oak Ridge, you know, it's got so much potential, still, yet. It's got a lot of lost

potential they'll never be able to retrieve, because of the history, the historic buildings,

and such, that should've been preserved, that we could've, you know, been able to, to

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show as a historical town, and make something out of it. Now, it's not much left of old

Oak Ridge. I remember Downtown Shopping Center. Fabulous. That shopping center,

I know a lot of people don't realize it, but it was, probably, the, the most advanced, best

shopping center, not in just Tennessee, and the United States, the entire world.

Glazer, when he built that, you know, he was out in California, and that's what he did,

you know, he, he developed shopping centers. So, when he built the one in Oak

Ridge, it was the latest, and greatest that, of any place, anywhere. So, I mean, it was

beyond anything California had. Most everybody, at that time, everything was

downtown. There wasn't any strip centers, or shopping centers, you know, just

individual stores, you know, how down, along that road, you know, stores in individual

buildings. But, you know, that, that was just a fabulous place. You know, I just, I think

Oak Ridge, you know, you know, what I see for Oak Ridge, what I would make Oak

Ridge, what Oak Ridge, I think, has to offer now, is the medical center. And, in, also, I

think, if Oak Ridge would turn into a, a good place for people to come retire, and have

medical facilities, and have the town, but it would bring in people who would service

those facilities, doctors, you know, nursing homes, retirement homes, just, sort of, sort

of be that. That's, Oak Ridge has always had what they wanted, at the time that they

needed it, if you know what I'm saying. Union Carbide, you know, would always take

care of everybody's needs, you know. If you worked at Union Carbide, well, your

children got, what? Santa Claus, and you got the ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Christmas parties.

MR. BRUNER: Christmas parties. It just, whatever. You need retirement, you need

vacation, you need ... They always gave you everything you needed at, at, whenever

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you did need it. So, what's needed now? People retired, so they need a, they need a

retirement town. But, you know, I don't think Downtown Shopping Center will ever be,

ever, and it should never be made into a mall. If that ever happens, it'll be a disaster. I

mean, I see it being a mixed-use, you know, maybe a few small shops. What Oak

Ridge really needs is, you know, down that, in that area is, make it sort of like a little

downtown, you know, kind of like a downtown Knoxville with streets, and mixed-use,

and single family homes, some retirements homes, some condos, some shops, and

that sort of thing. One thing, I think, would be extremely successful, too, when you

have a retirement, is have a good cafeteria.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You got to ...

MR. BRUNER: A good cafeteria would be ... I live near S&S Cafeteria, and I talk to, I

guess, the evening I went in there, and, and had dinner, and I said, "How many'd you

serve today?" The cashier said, "I think it's about 13 hundred." I said, "Oh, so you're

talking about 15 thousand dollars." She said, "Yeah, about 15 thousand." So, they took

in 15 thousand dollars yesterday, and if they made a third of that, which they would,

easy, they made five thousand yesterday. So, it's a lucrative, you know, opportunity.

But, you'd have to do it the right way. But, somebody, if they put in a really good

cafeteria here, just in a free-standing building, it could make a fortune. The people my

age, your age, even younger people, to be able to go in and get, like, last night, I got

in, I just had some roast beef, and a glass of water.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You have that variety to select from.

MR. BRUNER: You have a variety. What you want, you know, how much you want,

and, I didn't spend that much money.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: Pretty well fixed that day, too. Kind of fresh.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah. Yes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: You see what you're getting.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, that's been one of our number one things, to have a cafeteria.

Remember Davis Brothers that was Downtown?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, Davis Brothers was the best one ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Excellent.

MR. BRUNER: ... in the entire world, I promise you.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. We had one, Luby's, I think, was down there. It was so-so,

you know.

MR. BRUNER: Luby's was good.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: Luby's was a good ... But, it wasn't Davis ... Davis Brothers had those

waiters. It was, they had the best, I'm going to tell you, everything they had there, other

than potatoes, roasted potatoes, their desserts, their bread, their roast beef, everything

there was just delicious.

MR. HUNNICUTT: You talking about Glazer, we interviewed John Bryant some time

ago, that used to ...

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... be, work for him.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: And, he talked about how Glazer was really, Oak Ridge, favored

Oak Ridge a lot. And, he talked to the city management about, not to make that a mall

down there, and they wouldn't listen to him. And, as we know, it, kind of, flopped after

a while. But, that was the trend, in those days, you know, to have a mall, indoor

shopping, without worry of rain, cold, or whatever. But, he really liked Oak Ridge. He

really took a liking to the city, in those days.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah, he made, he made a fortune here.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, he did. But, he was a very giving person, too, even though he

was a millionaire, he was pretty well giving.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything you can think of we haven't talked about, that you

want to talk about?

MR. BRUNER: No, not that I can think of. I mean, I could talk all night. (laughs)

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, Oak Ridge history, you and I could talk for hours about it,

but ...

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, I love it, I love Oak Ridge. I do. It's, I think, it's, probably, one of

the most perfect towns in the entire world, to grow up in. I mean, it, we had everything.

We had the best of everything. And everything was brand new, to us. We were, it was

not, the housing, the roads, the pool, everything we had was, it was a secure, safe

place to live, many things to do, best athletic programs, the best teachers, and the best

people.

MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a variety of people, you know.

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MR. BRUNER: The people here, if you, if you came in, and you were a, whatever

level. If you were a janitor, you were the best janitor that there was. Whatever your

position was, you were the best of whatever, if you were a physicist, you were the best.

Whatever you did, machinist, electrician, they were the best of the best. They were,

they were, you know, some of them were as smart as the college graduates, even, you

know. They were that brilliant.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have any business investments in Oak Ridge today?

MR. BRUNER: No, I don't have anything. I just go to church here. (laughs) I'm out here

a lot, See, I'm out here at least two times a week, you know. So, and I still, I love it. I

mean, I still love it. I just, I long to see it, you know, the way it was. I know it'll never be

the way it was, but, you know, the, the Shoney's, McDonald's, you know, the, the kids,

you know. I, the sad thing, I come to Oak Ridge, and when I was a kid, you know, kids

were everywhere. We were all over the place, on bicycles. I come out here, I don't see

a, I don't see a child. I don't see a child on a bicycle. I go, I hardly even go to

McDonald's, I mean, you see a child. It's like, "Where are these kids?" I know that

there're a bunch of kids here, but I just don't see kids.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, there's a lot of self-entertainment, now, in the computer

world ...

MR. BRUNER: I guess that's it.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... that they're occupied with.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, you, one other thing of, of interest is, the Snow White Drive-in.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, gosh.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: You remember the Snow White Drive-in, those hamburgers they

used to have?

MR. BRUNER: Oh, I remember all of it.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: Oh, yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: It's just quite unique city to live in.

MR. BRUNER: Everything, you know, even down there at that little, where that used to

be the Magic Wok, but remember when it was just a little diner?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Eric's Diner was there.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah. And, and I know Grove Center, the pharmacy down there, they

had a wonderful cook down there at their counter. Did you ever eat there? That guy, it

was a, it was a big, black man that would, that cooked in there, and I'm telling you, he

was the best cook. He made the best cornbread. He would do a plate lunch, and it was

delicious. You know, he'd wear these whites as, you know, like you'd see somebody in

the Army, like, the, you know, mess sergeant, or something. He would, and he'd, he

was just all, everything he served, his steak and gravy, or the pork tenderloin and

gravy. I used to love to go down there. I would go to the different drug stores. I would

go, like, on my bicycle. Of course, I had, I could go anywhere I wanted to in Oak Ridge,

when I was six, seven-years-old, you know, it was safe. So, I would ride my bicycle

down to East Village and see what, go in the drug store, see what kind of stores they

had. I would go to Woodland. I would go all the way down to Jefferson, course, Pine

Valley, and over to Woodland. You know, I would make the rounds. And, it was just a,

you know, it was, it was just so much fun here.

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MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, I appreciate your time, and, and your love for Oak Ridge,

and ...

MR. BRUNER: I do love it. I mean, we had a Fun Land.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.

MR. BRUNER: Had slot cars, we had trampolines, and we had Putt-Putts.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Go-karts.

MR. BRUNER: Go-karts.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: It was a, this was a kid's dream town to grow up in.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, society changes every generation, seems like. And, whether

it's going in the right direction, that's not for me to say, I guess. But ...

MR. BRUNER: I just hope somebody ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Kids today are missing out ...

MR. BRUNER: ... does the right thing.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... on a lot of easy activities, or just, you know.

MR. BRUNER: It's virtual now.

MR. HUNNICUTT: It's all electronic stuff today.

MR. BRUNER: We did it, you know. Now, they watch somebody riding a bike. (laughs)

We rode our bikes.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.

MR. BRUNER: You know, I mean, it's, they, what we, they watch somebody on a

trampoline. We, we jumped on a trampoline. It's, we had the bat, bat cage, remember

that? And the, and the Par Three. There was stuff to do. You know, we, and it was just

60

always something to do, constantly. Of course, it's a big sports town, just, just, you

name it, it was here.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Squeaky Sheridan ran that bat cage, and had that Par Three golf

course.

MR. BRUNER: Squeaky?

MR. HUNNICUTT: Uh-huh.

MR. BRUNER: You ... It ...

MR. HUNNICUTT: Sheridan, was his last name.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah, we called him, "Squeaky."

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, right.

MR. BRUNER: I can see him as plain as day.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Short man.

MR. BRUNER: He was, he was a, a mail carrier.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, he was a postman, and it's right about where K-Mart is, I

mean, Wal-Mart is today ...

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: ... right there, in that area.

MR. BRUNER: I can see him. He'd go up there, had something he'd punch in there to

give you, you know, a free game. I could see, he used to walk, you know, 90 miles an

hour. Wouldn't run, he'd just walk fast. But there was a lot of people here in town, you

know, that were interesting people, as well. We talk about that, too, you know, a little

bit with, with, you know, with the Oak Ridge Memories.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, Carl, thank you again, for, for being here with us today.

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MR. BRUNER: My pleasure.

MR. HUNNICUTT: And, it's been a real treat to talk to you.

MR. BRUNER: Yeah.

MR. HUNNICUTT: Ok.

MR. BRUNER: Same here.

[End of Interview]

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