CONSTITUTION OF KENYA REVIEW COMMISSION

(CKRC)

VERBATIM REPORT OF

CONSTITUENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS,

BARINGO NORTH CONSTITUENCY,

HELD AT KABARTONJO CHIEFS OFFICE

ON

3rd JULY, 2002

CONSTITUENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS, BARINGO NORTH CONSTITUENCY, HELD AT KABARTONJOCHIEFS OFFICE ON 3RD JULY, 2002

Present

Com. P.M. wambuaCom. Zein AbubakarCom. Pastor Zablon AyongaCom. Hon. Phoebe Asiyo

Secretariat Staff in Attendance:

Fatuma Jama - Programme Officer Makomere Wambeyi - Asst. Programme Officer

Lydia Moraa - Verbatim Recorder

The meeting started at 10.20 with a prayer. Com. Wambua in chair.

Speaker: Shughuli ya leo. Na kabla hatujafanya jambo lolote, ninaomba Reverend Chirchir aje atuongoze kwa maombi

tafadhali. Na tusimame zote.

Rev. Chirchir: Tuombe pamoja. Mungu Baba wetu, Mungu muumba, na mlizi ya wote tunakushukuru asubuhi hii kwa

uongozi wako bora, asante kwa kuanziza kazi hii, asante kwa yale yametendeka na Baba tunataka kujikabidhi mikononi2

mwako wakati huu. Tunakushukuru kwa kuongoza na kulinda wale wanaongoza kazi ya leo. Baba tunajua hii ni kazi ya maana

sana ambaye nchi yetu itakuja kutegemea; sisi wakati huu na hata kwa watu wa siku sijazo. Baba tunataka utuongoze na

utusaidie tujadiriane na tuchukue kila kitu kwa makini. Baba tunakubuka wale wanaendelea kwa sehemu tofauti tofauti kwa

jamhuri yetu ya Kenya. Baba upate kuongoza na hii wewe mapenzi yako ipate kujulikana ili nchi hii ipate kwendelea kwa

amani na ufanisi wa maendeleo. Tunakushukuru kwa mambo hayo yote katika jina la Yesu aliye bwana na mwokozi wetu.

Amen.

Speaker: Basi, asante reverend, wakati tunapoendelea, nawaomba ya kwamba kila mtu ajiandikishe tafadhali na mahali pa

kujiandikisha itakua ni mahali pale, hata kama hutakua na nene ambayo ungependa kusema, wewe uende tu ujiandikishe basi.

Kwa nafasi niliyonayo nitamkalibisha mwenyekiti wa committee wa North Baringo constituency ambaye ni Royeta. Karibu

Royeta.

Royeta: Commissioner Zablon Ayonga na tena ni chairman na Commissioner Asiyo, Commissioner Abubakar, Commissioner

Wambua, paradiyo kamati ya Katiba ya constituency ya Baringo North. Yangu tu ni kuintroduce wale kamati ya … kujeni

pande hii tafadhalini. Kuja pande hii halafu muende kuketi. Commissioners, nitawaonyesha wale walifanya kazi hii ya Katiba

at monitoring the civic education providers kwa kila division. Hawa .. kuna wacomitte yete mwingine ako nje? Bwana

chairman, kuanzia hawa akina mama, huyu ni Rodha Kiplangat, mama mwingine ni Presca Chepsengei, hawa wanaakilisha

Kabartonjo division. Kijana huyu ako na suit nyeusi anaitwa Erick Arare kutoka Partambo division. Anaakilisha youth kwa

Katiba. Pastor John Chebeti – yeye ni programmer wa leo, Bwana Commissioner, yeye anaakilisha Religion – Dini kwa jumla

kwa Baringo constituency. Yule anafaa Chesero, tena vile vile pastor anatoka Kabartonjo division, sio ya Chesoro Bwana

commissioner ni kutoka Kabartonjo division inaitwa Chepchesoro – jina ingine ni Lang’olat. Na commissioners, wale wengine

bwana chairman tuko na bando labda tuko watatu, tuko na mwingine anaitwa Labad kutoka Parwesa division bando ingia. Na

kuna mwingine aliomba apology Natachemi Siala ameenda kwa seminar anaakilisha Kabartonjo division. Nafikiri ni hayo tu

sina …. Na co-ordinator tuko na representative ya coordinator office. Kwa haya machache kwa sababu nyinyi hamtaki

maneno mingi, mimi tu nashukuru nakaribisha commissioners, ni nasema asante sana kwa constituency yetu ya Baringo.

Tumefanya kazi, commissioners tumefanya, tumefanya kila mahali. Tumejaribu kutembelea kila location, wacha ata tarafa,

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tumeenda kwa kila location kupeleka kazi hii ya Katiba. Kwa hivyo ______ (inaudible) kama jana Bwana chairman ulijionea.

Tulitetea kila corner na tunaamini tumefaulu na tulisaidiana na Administration. Unajua saa ingine, unajua pande hii lazima

tusaidiane na watawala kwa sababu ya milima, communication ya barabara saa ingine na security saa ingine kwani imejaa

Wapokot. Wanalalamika juu ya vita ya kuimba ng’ombe, ng’ombe. Kwa hayo machache mimi sina maneno mengi,

ninakalibisha DO ya ______ (inaudible) Baringo North ili akalibishe wageni na akalibishe Chairman sana. Karibu bwana DO.

DO: Basi chairman ya kikao hiki pastor commissioner Zablon Ayonga, commissioners ambao mumeandamana nao, yangu ni

kuchukua nafasi hii kidogo kuwakalibisha katika tarafa hii ya Kabartonjo ambao tunatarajia watu kutoka divisions mbili –

Barweza division and Kabartonjo division.

Barweza division iko na locations tatu, na Kabartonjo division locations tano. Kwa wakati huu viongozi ambao walichaguliwa

kutoka mjumbe, councillors, naamini watakuwa nasi siku ya leo. Kwa watu wetu wa Kabartonjo na Barweza, langu tu itakuwa

matatu; moja ni kwamba tujaribu tuongee mambo ambayo inahusu taifa kwa ujumra. Tusiangalie zile shinda zetu za hapa kwa

mlango, tuangalie nchi kwa ujumla, ukipatiwa dakika tano, sema jina lako na useme ile unataka, usiamke na kusema bwana

chairman, councillors, chiefs, wazee wa mitaa, chairman ya _______, nursery, nachukua nafasi hii kwetu ni salama haijanyesha,

iko nini, No! Nasijui, ukiwa na memorandum, usitusomee kila kitu, highlight please and hand it tuokoe wakati. Kwa hivyo

mwenyekiti utakuta wazee pia wamekuja hapa na watatoa maoni yao kwa lugha yao. Bila kupoteza wakati ninarudishia

chairman ili tuanze kikao hiki mapema. Tumekuja nje hapa kwa matumuni ya kwamba, tuwe wazi, hakuna kitu ambayo

tunaficha, lakini hali ya anga ikibadirika, tutamia hiyo hall. Tumekuja hapa nje kuonyesha kila mwananchi kwamba, hii

commission haina chochote ya kuficha. Kwa hivyo hali ya anga ikibadilika tutatumia kule dani. Basi, kwa sababu leo hatuna

makofi, nini na nini makofi tatu ya kilo.

Hapa la mwisho, hapa ni kortini, this is a commission, hata ukisikia matusi, usicheke. Take it as a court. Hakuna kushangilia,

hakuna kuuliza maswali, lete vile ungetaka. Asante.

Com. Pastor Zablon Ayonga: Asante Bwana DO, nataka kuwasalimu nyote kwamba Chamge tubu, tumefurahi kufika

upande wenu wa Kabartonjo na tunashukuru bwana DO kwa makalibisho, tumeshukuru, bwana mwenyekiti wa 3Cs kwa

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kutukalibisha, tunajua imekuwa kazi ngumu kwenu, kuweza kumobilize watu ili waweze kuja katika kikao hiki na jinsi ambavyo

bwana DO amesema, leo sio siku ya maswali. Leo ni siku ya maoni yako ambayo unayotuambia hivi ndivyo ungetaka Katiba

ya Kenya iwe. Maneno ya mastory vile jinsi mambo yalifanyika, hivi na vile, ndipo uje kutwambia point yako huko mwisho, hio

si haja. Tunataka ugonge point ile ambayo umetaka, na tunataka utwambie suruhisho. Si kwamba unatwambia, sasa nyinyi

commission mwende muangalie habari hiyo. Habari hiyo ni wewe unaangalia, sisi tutabeba habari ili ambayo wewe umeandalia.

Tena hata mtu kama amesema point ambaye imekuingia, hatutaki kupiga makofi, kule kotini mkienda mnapiga makofi? Hakuna.

Tunataka tu tuwe na ukimia, kila mmoja atapewa nafasi yake ile ambayo itatoa maoni yake.

Na pia tungelipenda kila mmoja anapoambiwa dakika zako zimekwisha ili upatie na mwingine nafasi ni heri utii. Usiseme mimi

ngoja, ongeza mimi dakika, unaposema hivyo, unataka kusema ni wewe tu uko upande huu. Hawa wengine wote wako hapa

wamekuja watoe maoni, kwa hivyo ukiambiwa dakika zako zimekwisha, tafadhali upoe. Temeelewana? Sasa kabla

hatujaenda kuwapa yale mambo ambayo mtafuata, nataka kuchukua fursa hii kwa kuweza kuintroduce kwenu commissioners

ambao tumekuja hapa na office staff ambao tumekuja nao. Nitawapa nafasi commissioners baadaye wawasalimu lakini kwa

kutaja, mkono wangu wa kushoto ni commissioner B. Asiyo ambaye nina ukweli kwamba wengi wenu wanamjua alipokuwa

mwanabunge na sasa yeye ni commissioner. Atawasalimu baadaye. Na hapa karibu nami ni bwana Abubakar Zein ambaye ni

commissioner, nitampa nafasi atakuja kuwasalimu na kule mwisho ni commissioner Paul Wambua. Naye pia atawasalimu

baadaye. Hata kwa office tumekuja na Programme Officer ambaye ni Bi. Fatuma na huyu ndiye kiongozi wa programme yetu

hapa na amekuja pia na wengine watatu, moja atakuwa ni Makomere ambaye yeye atakuwa anaandika, anaandika kama

machine lakini hata kama anaandika, kuna Bi Moraa hapa, ambaye yeye naye anatega na kanda ili neno lisipotee. Hata kama

unakohoa, kikohozi chako tutachukua. Kwa hivyo hakuna neno la mtu litakalopotea kwa kuwepo hapa. Sisi commissioners

pia tutakuwa tunaandika lakini mara nyingi utaona tunasikiza. Usije ukaseme bona ninaona yule commissioner haandiki maneno

yangu. Kuna naye anaandika, kuna naye anashika maneno yako kwa kanda. Kwa hivyo hakuna kitu cha mtu hapa kitakuja

potea, tunataka mkisema useme dhaili, unajua zile siku zingine mtu anaweza kusema, nikisema DO yuko hapa, nafikiri baada ya

hii mkutano nitashikwa juu juu au chief yuko hapa, au nani yuko hapa, hiyo leo hakuna. Nyinyi nyote mmefunikwa na ile

blanket nzuri ya commission, kwamba hakuna atakayeshitakiwa kwa maana alitoa maoni yake. Tumeeleana? Kwa hivyo leo ni

siku ya uhuru, na useme yale unayotaka. Ili nisije nisahau, wacha wacommissioners wawasalimu na wakishawasalimu leo

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ambaye atakalia hiki kiti changu, atakuwa commissioner Paul Wambua, ndiye ataendesha hiki kipindi. Kwa hivyo wacha

kwanza msalimiwe. Mama Asiyo,

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Asante sana commissioner Pasor Ayonga kwa kunipa nafasi ya kuwasalimia watu wote, wazee na vijana

ambao wamefika hapa Kabartonjo ili kutoa maoni juu ya Katiba mpya. Najua mnafahamu kwamba Katiba ndio amri kuu

kabisa. Ndio sheria ile kumbwa zaidi ya sheria yote. Na pia mnafahamu kwamba hii Katiba tulionayo kwa wakati huu ni

Katiba ile ilitolewa ulaya na imelekebiswa kama mara tharadhine na nane hivi. Sasa ni kusema wanakenya wenyewe (nyinyi

wenyewe) leo mnajenga nyumba mpya ya Kenya. Ndio mtajua kijana anakaa upande hii, mzee nyumba yake itakuwa pale, ng’

ombe watakaa namna gani, jee mambo ya kuheshimiana itakuwa vipi? Sheria za Kenya zitakuwa namna gani? Ndio sasa

tutajenga nyumba mpya na watu wa Kenya wenyewe. Na mimi ninashukurani sana kwa watu wa Kenya kufikia wakati huyu

wa kusema tutengeneze Katiba. Mnajua kwa Africa, hata nchi zingine, Katiba imetengenezwa kukiwa na vita, au kukiwa na

msukosuko mbaya sana – crisis mbaya sana ya nchi mzima. Watu wanashindwa kuishi vizuri, halafu wanakimbilia wanasema

tukae chini tutengeneze Katiba mpya. Ni chache sana itengeneze Katiba mpya kama President yuko na yeye aseme

tutengeneze Katiba mpya. President wachache sana wa Africa wanafanya mambo hii hapa. Ni mzuri kusema ukweli,

wachache sana wanakubali – kama wao bando wanaishi – kusema Katiba iandikwe mpya. Mimi nikisema hiyo ni mzuri maana

mimi ni mwanabunge miaka mingi, najua mambo ya siasa ya Kenya. kwa hivyo tunapeana shukurani kwa mambo haya, kwa

serikali, kwa mzee mwenyewe, kwa watu wa Kenya kukumbali kwamba itengenezwe Katiba mpya kama President yetu bando

yuko mzima na yuko kwa kiti. Na tutengeneze Katiba ambayo itaweza kuleta urafiki kati ya watu wa Kenya wote ili tuishi

kama watoto wa mtu mmoja. Maana Mungu hakuwa mjinga kuweka sisi pamoja. Alikuwa na sababu yake ya kuweka sisi

wote kutoka pahali ya Mombasa, mpaka milima hii yote ya Baringo ati sisi ni watu wa nchi inaitwa nchi ya Kenya moja. Mungu

alikuwa na sababu kubwa sana. Kwa hivyo Katiba hii kama tutafaulu kuleta urafiki kwa ajiri ya Katiba hii, itakuwa kitu ya

maana sana. Lakini mtupatie mawaidha, mtupatie fikira yenu, serikali ambayo itakuwa namna gani, je vijana, wazee, mali ya

uma na kila kitu kitakuwa je. Ninajua tutapata hekina kutoka kwa wazee mbao mimi naona hapa. Nimeshukuru sana sana

kwamba mmefika na kwamba tutaongea kama watu wazima ili tutoke na mambo itatusaidia kufanya Katiba. Nakushukuru

mwenyekiti kunipa nafasi ya kusalimia watu hawa, na mimi pia ni mtu wenu hapa, kijana yangu alitafuta wasichana Kenya yoote

akaja akaoa hapa kwenu, hata mimi ni sengee hapa. (laughter).

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Com. Pastor Zablon Ayonga: Sasa mimi naona hapa tuko ugeni tena ugeni mkubwa sana kwa maana kama mama mlitafuta

msichanaaa mpaka mkaja kupata yapa, tukimaliza kikao hiki, si mama atalala? Tunaeleana? Haya, wacha msalimiwe hapa na

commissioner Zein Abubakar.

Com. Zein Abubakar: Habari ya asubuhi? Kila wakati ninapokuwa safarini nikiwa nimeandamana na mzee Ayonga na

Mheshimiwa mama Asiyo, huwa mimi najifunza mambo mengi na ninapata busara kubwa nyingi. Na kile mnapozungumza na

kusikiza maoni ya wakenya, huwa najifunza mambo kama hayo. Kwa hivyo, kulingana na mira na desturi zetu kule Mombasa,

ikiwa mambo mazuri kama haya aliyosema mama, nikianza na mimi yangu nitakuwa nimeyaharibu, kwa hivyo mimi ningependa

tu kuwasalimia na kuwaambia kwamba nina furaha kubwa kuwa na nyinyi na tunashukuru mmeweza kuitikia mwito wa kuja

kutoa maoni ili kulekebisha Katiba yetu. Asanteni sana.

Com. Pastor Zablon Ayonga: Sasa wacha msalimiwe na Bwana Paul Wambua.

Com. P.M. Wambua: Chamge tu? Mimi kwa kawaida wazee wakizungumza huwa sipendelei kuongezea maneno, ni kama

dugu yangu hapa Zein alisoma yale niliyolikuwa nataka kusema. Nafikiria kwa kuwa niko karibu naye. Kwa hivyo sitaongezea

yale mlioyasikia kutoka kwa commissioners Zablon Ayonga na Mama Asiyo. Ni yale yale ambayo yanafaa. Kwa hivyo

kwangu ni kusema na washukuru nyote kwa kufika, natarajia ya kwamba kila mmoja wenu atayatoa maoni yake kulingana na

vile angelipenda Katiba yetu iwe. Kwa hivyo mjisikie mko huru kusema yale yote ambayo yako moyoni, yako kwa kichwa

yenu halafu tutayapokea na Katiba tutahakikisha ya kwamba maoni yenu yatakuwa yameingizwa katika Katiba. Kwa hivyo

asante sana Bwana mwenyekiti kwa kunipa nafasi kuwasalimia hawa dugu zetu.

Com. Pastor Zablon Ayonga: Asante, baada ya hayo, tuliwaambia kwamba nimemuuliza huyu commissioner Bwana Paul

Wambua ili aweze kuwa mwenyekiti kwa kikao hiki. Yeye atawapa kwanza taratibu ya jinsi tutafanya, jinsi ambavyo

unatakiwa ufanye, na jinsi ambavyo mkutano huu utaendelea. Kwa hivyo kwa sasa ninampa microphone na atawaelezea na

ataongoza kikao hiki.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana mwenyekiti, tutafuata taratibu kama ifuatavyo:-

Unaweza kuja hapa kutoa maoni ukiwa umeyaandika – written memorandum, kama uko na maadishi na hutaki kuzungumza

ama kuongezea yale ambayo umesema, tutayapokea na tutaandikisha hapo na tutaenda kuyasoma. Ikiwa ungelipenda

kuongezea machache ama kumlika yale ya mhimu kama vile mwenyekiti alivyosema, basi muda wako utapungua kidogo halafu

tutakupa nafasi tu ulenge yale ya muhimu halafu umuachie mwenzako nafasi. Tunatarajia ya kwamba watu watakuwa wengi,

kwa hivyo ukija hapa kuzungumza, lenga yale ambayo yanafaa kuhakikisha ya kwamba Katiba ambayo itaandikwa inaofaa.

Kwa hivyo tutafuata taratibu wale ambao wamejiandikisha ya kwamba kuna orodha ambayo imeandikwa, majina yamepeanwa,

tayari tuko na watu 36. Tutawaita wale ambao walijiandikisha kwanza halafu itafuatana hivo hivo. Lakini sisi tuko na haki,

ikiwa kuna mtu amefika hapa na ni ngojwa, ama ni mama mzito, ama ni mama, ama ni mzee, ama awe ni mtu ana kilema, awe ni

kilema tutampa nafasi, tuna haki ya kumpa nafasi kwanza atoe maoni halafu aende. Kwa hivyo ukiona pengine mtu amekuja hivi

karibuni na wewe ulikuwa hapa tangu mwanzo, halafu tukampa nafasi, ujuwe kuna sababu lakini tutataja kwa nini tunampa hiyo

nafasi. Na hivyo ni taratibu ambazo tumetumia kila pahali tulipofika.

Baada ya kutoa maoni yako, tutahitaji ujiandikishe huko kwamba ulifika na ukatoa maoni halafu jina lako utaweka sahihi wako

hapa wale ambao wanatakiwa waandike. Kwa hivyo bila kuharibu wakati na pia la mwisho, commissioners wako na haki ya

kuuliza maswali kama kuna neno ambayo halikuweleweka, tuna haki kama commissioners kuuliza ufafanue lakini hatutakubali

kuwe na mjadara. Wewe ni kusikiza vile watu wanasema, wao watatoa maoni yao na we utatoa maoni yako. Hata ikiwa

hukubaliani na hao, maoni ni yao au ni ya wao, kwa hivyo utoe yale yako. Sio ati utakuja kujibu vile mwenzako amesema,

apana, toa maoni yako. Hata ikiwa ni tofauti kulingana na wale walivyozungumza mbele yako. Kwa hivyo tutaanza maanake

muda hatuna sana, kwa hivyo nimekubushwa kwamba unaweza kutumia lugha yeyote, kizungu, kimombo, unaweza kutumia

kiswahili na ikiwa uko na shida kuzungumza lugha hizo mbili, tunaweza kukupa nafasi uzungumze na ile tunaita mother tongue.

Hapa tuna Ntugeni, hiyo pia tunaelewa. Na wale ambao hawaelewi, tuko na mkalimani hapa atatafusiri atatwambia yale

umesema halafu yatanaswa. Kwa hivyo tuanze mbele kabisa niko na Mariko Cheboiwo, Mariko Cheboiwo, Mariko tafadhali

fika hapa mbele, taja jina lako, tunataka utaje ndio linaswe halafu utupatie maoni yako. Nahakikisha hutapitisha dakika kumi

maanake … kwa hivyo taja jina mzee halafu uendelee.

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Mark Cheboiwo: Kainenyun ko Mariko Cheboiwo.

Translator: Jina lake ni Marko Cheboiwo.

Mark Cheboiwo: Ang’alanen kutinyun.

Translator: Ataongea kwa lugha yake.

Mark Cheboiwo: Ng’olyot nebo tai ko koboch kenam katyaknatet agoi raini,

Translator: Jambo la kwanza, tangu tulipopata uhuru mpaka wa leo

Mark Cheboiwo: kokiteb emoni eng’ kalya, kimochekoteb ku non.

Translator: tumekaa kwa amani na tunataka iendelee hivyo.

Mark Cheboiwo: Ne bo aeng’ , momeche ng’alekab ukabila.

Translator: Ya pili, sitaki mambo ya ukabila.

Mark Cheboiwo: Komoche ketebi ku yu kitebsot che bo keny.

Translator: Nataka tukae kama vile tulivyokuwa tukikaa tangu zamani.

Mark Cheboiwo: Nebo somok ne bo let,

Translator: Jambo la tatu na ni la mwisho,

Mark Cheboiwo: Chang’ lagok betusiechu en emoni bo Kenya che monget chi kwanisiek ole mi kamanik.

Translator: Kuna watoto wengi ambao wa Kenya hii ambao hawajulikani wazazi wao, baba na mama.

Mark Cheboiwo: Kimoche keib ng’alecho koba Bunge keng’alal ngiborchi lagochu.

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Translator: Tunataka hayo maneno yapelekwe kwa bunge tujue tutawafanyia nini hawa watoto.

Mark Cheboiwo: Korok ng’alekyuk ane amu kemwa kele makimoche ng’al chechang’.

Translator: Mambo yangu yameishia hapo kwa sababu umesema hatutaki maneno mengi.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana, asante sana, jiandikishe hapa mzee Cheboiwo. Na wale watakaofuata tafadhalini fuata

mtido ni huo huo sasa. Dakika ni tano, sasa zimepungua kutoka kumi. Amundanyi Kipkulei, tufuate mtido wa Cheboiwo,

dakika tano tu, hata kama ni mbili pia maliza maneno yawe machache.

Kipkulei Amndany: Ane ko Kipkulei Amdany ochome ngalechu bo rani ole keyai amu kaming’inetabkei

Translator: Mimi Kulei Amundanyi nataka maneno ya leo tufanye kwa unyenyekefu.

Kipkulei Amndany: Ne akwang’e kityo ne muo kityo mi ki achek olipokeny keiye komen che kibo gaa, rani kisor

kumik chebeny che mwochi serkali kole notobul bunu kiyai sortolak chi lemei en barabara.

Translator: Jambo linalo nishangasha sana ni kwamba zamani tulikuwa tukinywa pombe ya nyumbani na kwa wakati huu kuna

pombe aina mingine mingi baya ambayo inamaliza watu wetu barabarani. Nataka serikali itupilie mbali.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: ago komen cho ko che kosoru ak keado en dukani.

Translator: Na hayo pombe yaliingia tu hivi majuzi na yanauzwa dukani.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: ko mokinget so kebenet ne bunu

Translator: Na hatujui ni pango gani pombe hii imetoka.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: aginye serkali oker kebenet ne bunu amache asorta chile ketolek eng’ barabara

Translator: Nataka niambie serikali ifunge hiyo pombe ambayo inamaliza watu barabarani. Sasa mimi sina maneno mengine.

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Kipkulei Amundanyi: Unon, mele atotinye alak chechang’ kemwoe kele keyai Katiba ni ak koribech agoi tun, ak

korib lagokyok amu ane a chi boiyon ne kokose redio che bo sang’

Translator: Jambo ninalitaka tu ni kwamba hii Katiba tuiunde na itulinde na ilinde watoto wetu mpaka miaka zijazo kwa

sababu mimi ni mzee na ninasikia radio ya hata mambo ya nje.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: Ko countries chebo Afrika matinye kalya

Translator: Katika constinent ya Africa vijinga haina amani.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: Ko Kenya achek ketinye kalya

Translator: na sisi Kenya tuna amani.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: Kemoche koteb kalyani agoi tun. Kirok chichuk.

Translator: na tunataka amani hii ihudumu milele. Asante.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Mzee Kipkulei. Umetajaaa… ngojea kidogo mzee. Ametaja pombe ya kienyeji ambayo

ilikuwa inatengenezwa hapa awali, angelipenda iendelee ama angelipenda iwe aje?

Kipkulei Amundanyi: Aa, moendeleani kikerker chon kobek.

Translator: Anasema pombe ya kienyenji isiendelee, ifungwe.

Kipkulei Amundanyi: kimwoe chu kioldoi en tukasiek, chon mi kartasit ne teno.

Translator: Anazungumzia juu ya hii iko kwa duka iko kwa makaratasi.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana mzee, tumeyasikia. Thank you very much. Jiandikishe hapa tafadhali. Sasa tumuite

Naftari K. Chelagat. Hayuko? Endelea, taja jina tafadhali na utoe maoni.

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Naftari Chelagat: I salute you commissioners, my names are Naftari Chelagat. My proposals: I seek to introduce a system

that secure proper distribution of power. I believe I have a proposal federal system of governance as the only political system

suitable and acceptable to the people of Kenya. Centralism will bide Kenyan external unit with its internal diversity since

preserving the regional diversity is the traditional ______ of federal system. The federal system leaves room for experiments on

a smaller scale and for competition amongst states. A single state may for instance try informative methods in ____ which may

later service a model for nation quite reformed.

Preamble: I proposal that the new constitution should contain a preamble that would summarize the ______ side of the

constitution and common calls for the Kenyans. I suggest the following preamble: In the name of Jehova Jire, we the people of

the republic of Kenya endurance in the guidance of the Almight God that our forefathers, fought for independence and guided

by the said Almighty God who will also guide to the reviewing of the constitution and their substicle in amendment thereafter

wish to reconstitute Kenya into a very close sovereign democratic republic republic to secure to all its citizens, their religions,

their rights, do hereby adopt enact and keep to ourselves this federal constitution.

The Coalition: I propose that the open chapter of the constitution should declare that Kenya is of sovereign federal republic.

The federal republic will be comprised of 8 regions, that is Central, Coast, Eastern, North Eastern, Nyanza, Rift Valley, Nairobi

and Western.

Supremacy of the constitution: The supremacy of the constitution must be maintained that it has to be the supreme of the federal

republic of Kenya and in any other law that may contradict it shall be void to the extent of that particular inconsistency.

Interjection

Com. Wambua: Naftari, let me guide you, if you read that memorandum, it will take you 20 minutes, please highlight what is

important, you have three minutes to go, highlight what is important because we are going to read that memorandum in detail in

Nairobi.

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Naftari Chelagat: Thank you. The proposals contained in this paper are set out in a summary form, I believe the

commissioners the expartees have an ability to paint a clear picture of the governmental strategy structures proposed herein.

What remains for the commission to conjuct the proper and material worth and phrases to come up with a comprehensive

document that encombases the above proposal. I believe the federal structure system is the only political system which can

solve them mental problems facing Kenyans. Thank you.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much, we will read that memorandum in details Bwana Naftari, so please record it

there and give it to us. Tumuite Reverend Z. C. Chirchir.

I can see you have a written memorandum, please highlight the key points.

Rev. Z. C. Chirchir: My names are Reverend Zacharia Chirchir, chairman Africa Inland Church Baringo North Church

________. The Bible says the light of the body is the eyes. If therefore your eyes are good your whole body shall be full

obliged but if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. Mathew 6: 22-23 in the same way the light of our

country is its contribution and if its contribution is good the whole country will be full of light and vise versa.

Because I have written document let me just quote another verse and then I will just hand over right away. Regarding the

extension of parliament and the completion of the new constitution, the bible says, no one patches up an old goat with a piece of

new cloth for the new patch will shrink make an even bigger hole in the coat nor does any one pour new wine into used

wineskins for the skins will pass the wine will pour out and the skins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into fresh

wineskins and forth will keep in good conditions. Thank you very much.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much Reverend for being brief and also inciting the Bible. Thank you very much,

register yourself there and let us have the memorandum. Joshua Kipkitor. I can see Joshua you have a written memorandum,

please be very brief, summarize; we will read the memorandum in Nairobi.

Joshua Kipkitor: My names are Joshua Kipkitor from Ngantar Pastrol Parish, Baringo North constituency. Sasa

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tumeandika na vile tumeandika, kwanza tumeandika introduction na tukasema tunataka kuita Kenya yetu “The Peoples

Republic of Kenya” si the Republic of Kenya. Ni ya watu wenyewe.

Ya pili, tuliandika kuhusu Preamble, tukasema preamble ni ya maana sana.

Ya tatu tukaandika kuhusu mambo ya preamble na sitaki kusoma mtaenda kusoma.

Ingine tumeandika principles of state policy na kwa mfano, so plenty political of ____ , constitution, the law of the land lakini

yote nimeandika kwa memorandum.

Jambo lingine ni kuhusu vile tunahitaji – kwanza tungetaka wale wazee wa mitaa walipwe pesa kama watu wengine kwa sababu

hao wanafanya kazi ngumu sana. Hata wanafanya kazi ya amani na wanafanya pamoja na serikali. Kwa hivyo tumeweka hawa

wazee wa mitaa wawe wakipata payslip yao kila mwenzi.

Jambo lingine ni kuhusu elimu – tunaona katika upande huu, au Kenya kwa jumla, tuko na committee mbili katika kila

secondary school na hatutaka tunataka committee moja. Na hii committee moja inatokana na PTA. PTA sponsor, nini,

tuchague kutoka wale na wafanye kazi kwa sababu watoto ni wao. Unaweza kutoa mtu ambaye hana mtoto kwa hiyo shule,

hana interest kwa hiyo shule, kwa hivyo imbadilishwe. No Board of Governors.

Halafu jambo lingine nikuhusu masomo – tunataka free education kutoka pre-school mpaka university kwa sababu tunalipa

korti mingi, tunauza vitu kidogo kidogo, tunanunua dukani, hiyo italipa watoto wetu.

Jambo lingine, tunahitaji 85% - 85 % inasaidia arid areas wale bado wako chini lakini tukisema tuje pamoja wengine wataumia.

Kwa hivyo 85% inatakiwa katika kila district. Na pia tunahitaji kila district wawe na shule moja ya National au mbili. Kama

ile mashule ingine halafu wapate line kwa wale watoto wengine.

Na jambo lingine ni kuhusu mambo ya County Council – tunataka kusema wale ambao wanachaguliwa mayors, chairmen,

wachaguliwe na watu wenyewe directly.

Halafu ingine, tunahitaji mambo ya siasa ingawa we have freedom of speech, tunaona ya kwamba vyama zimekuwa too much

katika nchi. Kwa hivyo kama inawezekana, hata ninaona imepuguzwa, watu wana merge. They marry each other. Kwa hivyo

inakuja chini, kwa maoni yetu kama ingekuwa nne hivi, ingekuwa mzuri. Ile strong strong halafu nchi inajengeka. Serikali ile

ambayo tunataka ni serikali ya umoja, unitary government, ile kama vile iko sasa, President akiongoza, tuwe na Vice-President

halafu kama ministers kama wale wengine.

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Na jambo lingine ni kuhusu commissions – tunataka hawa kwa mfano cabinet ministers wachaguliwe au wafanyiwe proposal na

bunge halafu iwe na commission ya kuchagua hawa; tuwe na commission mahali fulani kwa sababu wale wa juu watoe majina

halafu na wanapeana commission halafu commission wanaangalia itakuwa namna gani.

Mambo wale ambao wanaenda bunge interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Joshua, maliza maliza tafadhali. Muda sasa umeisha nimekupatia overtime sasa dakika moja.

Joshua Kipkotor: Asante sana. Kwa hivyo tunaingia sasa habari ya utamaduni wetu. Utamaduni wetu ikae kama vile au

religion ikae kama vile hakuna amendments. Hakuna amendment kwa hiyo, watu wenyewe wanafanya hiyo kazi. Ile mbaya

wanatupa, ile mzuri wanafanya. Kwa hayo machache ninasema ni Asante sana.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kuna swali kidogo, lakini kabla hawajauliza, kuna kitu ulitaja na sikuelewa vizuri, hii 85% ulisema ni ya

nini?

Joshua: Ni ya watoto wa shule, wale wanateuliwa kuingia form one.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay, ngojea maswali, kuna mama anataka kukuuliza swali kidogo hapa halafu baadaye

Commissioner Zein.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Mzee Joshua umeongea habari ya mashule, ile boards, na wewe unajua kwamba kuna sponsors wa

shule bali bali, makanisa bali bali wanafanya sponsorship ya mashule zao, ungependa hii sponsorship iendelee au itupiliwe bali?

Joshua: Iendelee.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Iendelee. Na kama hakuna board, nani ataendesha shule, atasaidiana na walimu na wazazi kuendesha

shule?

15

Joshua: Kuna Committee itachaguliwa kutoka na PTA badala ya board halafu inafanya hiyo kazi.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Swali yangu ya mwisho sasa – umetwambia kwamba maministers yaani mawaziri, wachaguliwe na

commission ….

Interjection:

Joshua: Kwanza proposal ni kutoka kwa bunge halafu wachaguliwe na commission.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Ningependa kukueleza kwamba kuna nchi zingine ambao wabunge hawachaguliwi ministers, wao

wanajalilia mambo ya nchi tu, wanatengeneza policy na kadhalika, lakini ministers wanakuwa wale watu wa nje, wale ambao

apana sio wanasiasa, bunge ndio inachagua hawa lakini apana wanasiasa. Unieleze kama ni hiyo ulitaka kusema au ulitaka

kusema au ulitaka kusema watu hawa hawa wabunge ndio wajichague wenyewe minister au wachague watu wa nje wakuwe

minister kama America inafanya, nchi ingine tena inafanya?

Joshua: Sitaki ya nje, mimi nataka wale tumechagua wachaguliwe ministers kutoka wale.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Okay

Com. Zein Abubakar: Mzee wangu swali nila ambatana na hilo ulirudishia mama mwisho, wewe unapendekeza kwamba bunge

iteue watu watakao kuwa mawaziri halafu commission ichague katika wale walioteuliwa, lakini kulingana na miundo ya serikali,

kazi inaofanywa na mawaziri ni kutekeleza _____ ya serikali kufuatia mwongozo wa kiongozi wa nchi hiyo. Ukiwa hutasema si

kiongozi atakaye teua na kuchagua mawaziri wachaguliwe na bunge, huoni wabunge wanaweza kufuluga mwongozo wa

kiongozi huyo? Kama ni kutaka kutilia maanani kwamba watu wanaochaguliwa kuwa mawaziri, wawe ni watu wanaofaa,

wengine kama mama anavyokupa mfano, huwa wanampa kiongozi haki ya kuteua halafu bunge ikawahoji na kuwauliza maswali

kuona kwamba ni kweli wanafaa kuwa mawaziri. Lakini ukisema ni wabunge watakuwa wanajibiga kwa nani? Kwa bunge, au

kwa mtu ambaye anaongoza nchi hiyo?

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Joshua: Nafikiri sikusema mkubwa wa nchi atupiliwe bali, nilifikiria, katika bunge yeye mwenyewe ako pale, if clear, ako pale

pamoja na wale, so kwa hivyo kama vile umesema, ni mzuri yeye achague halafu wabunge wahithinishe.

Com. Zein Abubakar: Sawa.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Joshua, asante. Jiandikishe hapo tafadhali. Tutamuita Joshua Mecha kutoka KNUT.

Naona hapo una maandishi, kwa hivyo lenga yale ya mhimu tufupishe maneno.

Joshua B. R. Mecha: My names are Jushua B. R. Mecha, I’m a peace member for Kabartonjo division the outstanding

______ chief.

In our union, we have written basing on the guidelines provided by the commission, if I just go through, because of time I know

I will just highlight some few things since all what we have written is in this document.

First and foremost, we would like this constitution to have a preamble where this preamble should actually constitute end of

side A tape 1

At least at any one time, this preamble should focus on the national philosophys and state manangement. Another issue, we

look at the citizenship, the present citizenship is in order and we only like this kind of dual citizenship to be abolished.

Another factor is the President should only be responsible in terms of defence, national security and that he should be the sole

person to declare may be war emergencies, national disasters, inse____, and breakdowns of public order that the President

should have that power and nobody else to declare anything on security.

In the side of the armed forces, we should say that armed forces should observe the law of land outside the barracks that in

some cases the armed forces when they come out, at times they become indisciplined and we want them to be guarded by the

law so that when they are in the barracks they are disciplined in the barracks and arms of the barraks as any other member of

the public.

17

Another issue is on political parties – we request that this nation should have only 3 main political parties and these parties

should be funded by the government when it comes to election.

Another issue is that we adopt federal system and why do we say so? We said so because we say that some regions are well

developed and some are not well developed and those existing resources in those regions should be guarded by the federal

system of government.

On parliament we said that the parliament or the national assembly should be the sole body to visit higher posts in the

government. For the case of may be the ambassadeurs, may be state personal states, commissioners, and any other so that

when they are vetted they should be from the parliament. Proposals could be made in the house and those with good papers or

those with papers relevant to those ____ , we are going to say that they could now face the commission that will fade.

Another issue is the question of nominees of Members of Parliament should be scrapped but we are saying that special seats be

preserved for the vulnerable groups like those disabled to handle that. May be the ladies interjection;

Com. P. M. Wambua: Please summarize bwana Joshua.

Joshua Mecha: Okay, I’m summarizing. We also said that the office of the President or the President should actually be the

sole person who should be the Head of State, should also be the cammander in chief of the armed forces, he should also be the

Chancellor of state universities. We are saying this because if we appoint any other people, they may difuse the powers of the

President.

When it comesto election, we said that our President should have a direct election from wananchi.

Mayors and councillor chairmen should also be elected through direct voting. We are saying that for MPs and others, if one

has to stand for election, if this person has been working in the government, we should not first of all retire because if we want

to gather security, we are guarding that person so that next time if he is not going in, should go back and take his post in

18

whatever he has been doing.

The President should also attain a 25% votes in every federal region. Because we have written our memorandum I’m seing

may be I have run short of time,

interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: First you have exceeded by two minutes.

Joshua Mecha: So we feel that we have written our memorandum following the guidelines and we had written about 35 of

them. So

Interjection:

Com. P. M. Wambua: Just for clarification Joshua, you are definitely recommending that the President be the Executive and it

continues the way it is. Fine, Secondly, you have recommended that we have a federal system of government, and the reason

you gave is that you want equitable distribution between the regions on resources, do you have anything to say? You definitely

now there are some regions which are more developed than others, there are some which have really suffered under the present

arrangement, are you recommending anything to equit that situation?

Joshua Mecha: In some cases, you will find that when it comes to things like education and … okay, let me talk on the

divisions because we are living at the divisions in the sense that in some regions they are underdeveloped. We find that there

are some few schools and may be in terms of intake and other things, we are at a disadvantage because for a place to come up

with may be a few schools, those schools should be guarded so that they distract %, somebody talked about 85% and we are

saying that we recommend that system so that those who are in the disadvantaged areas, the few schools which are there should

also be taken up by those from that region. We are seing that may be if that it traps any scrapt those people from the low lands

or semi arid areas will be disadvantaged.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay, asante sana. Kuna swali? Ya, kuna swali lingine hapa ngojea.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Joshua umeongea juu ya dual citizenship, na unajua siku hizi na pia Katiba hii itakaa ata kwa miaka

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hamsini, miaka mia moja, sijui wengine tutakuwa tumeenda, kama tulisema hatuwezi jambo hili, nataka unipatie hekima yako

hapo, Kama kuna kijana wa Kenya ameenda kusoma America, akazaa huko, na mtoto akizaliwa America, saa ile yuko

hospitali anapewa citizenship na passport yake pale kwa maternity, ya nchi hiyo, sasa huyu mtoto akirudi hapa na baba yake,

tutafanya namna gani? Unataka mtoto huyu, atupe ile citizen ya kule alizaliwa, halafu apewe mpya ya Kenya au aje tu ile pia

aweke tu kwa mfuko yake, lakini pia apewe ya Kenya, au tusahau yeye kule alizaliwa?

Joshua Mecha: Sisemi hiyo lakini vile ninaonea ni kwamba this dual citizenship ni kwamba wengine wanaweza kuwa

registered may be in the process where may be that child is born but sometimes we have a problem, somebody could be a

citizen of America, akirudi Kenya anakuwa citizen wa Kenya, mara anaenda nchi ingine anakuwa citizen, we have seen cases

where may be some people register in more than 3 countries, and we will look at it and say, this people can cause a problem

sometimes you cannot immediately say where this person comes from.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: So can we say please in very special circumstances that this can be considered? Kuna kijana wa

Kabartonjo ameenda ameoa huko amerudi na mtoto yake kijana na ile barua ya huko, saa ile anapewa pale, ile sheria yao ni

kupeana dani ya maternity.

Joshua Mecha: Why we refuse this dual citizenship ni mambo ya security, yaani mtu anaweza kuwa … interjection:

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Umesha fahamu, unafahamu?

Joshua Mecha: Yee, ni hiyo tu ndio tulikuwa naona otherwise, kama ni …. If it is in line to in … interjection:

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: special cases?

Joshua Mecha: yaa, its okey but we only want to cut this question of somebody being registered here, registered there, and

everywhere.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Joshua, jiandikishe hapa. Tumeyapokea maoni yako na tuta ….. tumwite Shem K.

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Boiwa. Kwa hivo tafadhali naona umebeba memorandum, summarize peke yake dakika tatu, tuwapatie wengine nafasi.

Naona watu wamezidi kuwa wengi hapa.

Shem Mbigwa: My names are Shem Mboigwa, I present the FFD that means Foundation for Dialogue incorporating with the

CCR – Centre for Conflict Resolution Kenya.

Now I will just go very briefly, first of all I should say we should have a preamble in our constitution supremacy. The

referendum should be conducted by the following:

Government Representatives, regions representatives and Non Governmental Organizations.

We go to political parties – We think that these political parties should be reduced to be if possible 3 in number. This is to

reduce the division of the people in this country.

Structure of the government: This system of the government we wrote here I’m saying that we should have President as the

head of state and then the Prime Minister and the head of the

Government and wish to retain the unitary system of government.

Legislature: Parliament should vett the following appointments, Attorney General, Chief Justice, and Auditor General, and

Chairman of______ all commission, they should be guarded by the parliament.

Now we say again here, those who are seeking for presidential seat should be above 40 years, parliamentary seat 30 years,

and voters should be 18 years. Languages should be, those who require to seek for election in parliament, should be at least

form four level and above. Likewise to local authorities, councillors should also be form 4 and above. And we said here, I think

the illiterates have a right to recall their MP back if 75% of the voters in the constituency endorses. Because we have fear on

some of the MPs dissapear they don’t come to their electorates, they come looking for votes, once they will be called they

forget all about development in the constitution. So we feel the electorates have the right to recall him back. Likewise to

councillors.

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We also said their salaries should be ….. in the _____ commission should be looked into determine their salaries. It should not

be themselves who increase salaries for themselves.

Also we included here that we feel we should have two chambers in that house, that is the lower house and the upper house. A

lower house is to have one member of the constituency … interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Bwana Shem, I can see you are reading through the memorandum, three minutes are over, why don’t

you look at the head and summarize and then we will read the rest.

Shem Mboigwa: Okay, now we come to The chairmena and the mayor should be elected by the people. Also we said that

this middle area we found a mineral in my land, we feel that if the government came and ____ on that land, the ownership be

given 50% share in that area. And if he is evicted and he should be compensated fully.

The question of land property: In customary in our Kalenjin call it Tugen customary, we don’t give lands to ladies, what we can

give them is that come and caltivate and then they go. We don’t give land to them. My recommendation is that we don’t give

land to girls we give only to boys,

Com. P. M. Wambua: And you want that to go to theconstitution?

Shem Mboigwa: Yes we don’t.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Is that the end of it?

Shem: Ya.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much, ngoja,

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Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kama Mzee amezaa wasichana peke yake, hiyo shamba yake itakwenda wapi?

Shem Mboigwa: hataserve wasichana peke yake itapatikana.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: kama msichana bado olewa?

Shem Mboigwa: Kama bado kuolewa? Pengine umnunulie plot aende akatoka customary hatukumbalii kuishi kwa ile

shamba, pengine annue shamba mahali pengine.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Kwa hivyo unasema, msichana ikiwa hakuolewa, atafukuzwa toka kwa boma ya mzee?

Shem Mboigwa: Apana fukuzwa.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ndio lakini kama yuko, na hebu ni kwambie, katika nchi yetu ya Kenya hii, sasa kuna wasichana

wengi ambao hawajaolewa na wengi wamefikia kimo kile cha kusema sitaolewa, na yeye ni mtoto wako, anafanya kazi, anaishi

boma yako, utamfanyaje?

Shem Mboigwa: Problem yake ni kwamba asizae watoto na kuleta kwa hiyo boma,

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asizae?

Shem Mboigwa: Na kuleta kwa hiyo boma.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Okay, kwa maana hiyo ni culture, ni utumaduni tutawacha namna hiyo, na hiyo ni maoni yako.

Shem Mboigwa: Maoni yangu ndio.

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Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ngoja kidogo, wee una maneno. (laughter)

Com. Zein Abubakar: Bwana Shem, you are suggesting that we should have a recall mechanism for Members of Parliament?

Shem Mboigwa: Ya.

Com. Zein Abubakar: You know the first Kenyan who is making such submissions to this commission, but everytime we ask

people, you don’t have to answer this question but if you feel you have something to say about it please do. How do you

organize a recall mechanism? What procedure, what mechanism do you use? Secondly, how do you guard against abuse?

Immediately after elections, those who were the opponents of that MP will start the recall mechanism. How do you imprement

the mechanism? Do you collect signatures? What do you do and secondly how do you guard against abuse?

Shem Mboigwa: Ya I think I state here we will collect signatures,

Com. Abubakar Zein: So you collect signatures 75% you said?

Shem: Yes.

Com. Abubakar Zein: and how do you guard against abuse?

Com. Wambua: Commissioners I want to know how do you guard against people forging signatures and saying 75% so

toka?

Shem: We will appoint a chairman or somebody to come and ________ it.

Com. Wambua: Okay, we will accept that? Asante sana bwana Shem, just record your memorandum there and sign.

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Councillor Alexandar Mundani. Councillor najua kawaida maneno huwa ni mengi lakini leo yafupishwe. Lenga yale ya mhimu

ya Katiba halafu dakika ni tano tu.

Councillor Alexander Mundani: Jina ni Alexaner Mundani. Ile jambo nataka kuzungumzia ni juu ya ma-case ya mashamba.

Inaonekana ya kwamba, ma-case ya mashamba inakuwa nyingi na imepelekwa kortini mpaka high court. Ningeonelea ya

kwamba, hiyo ma-case yote irudishwe kwa kijiji. Ipewe village elders, wazee ambaye wanajua waone ya kwamba hiyo case

itamalizwa haraka iwezekanavyo.

Kuhusu soko huru: Ningependelea kusema ya kwamba, soko huru imewekwa mahidi, kahawa, maziwa, na mimea mingine.

Ningependelea kusema ya kwamba, ile soko huru ambaye imewekwa, iondolewe kisheria halafu wakulima watafanya kazi

kama vile hapo awali zamani. Na ile mahidi na vivaa vingine ambaye inatolewa nche kutoka America na sehemu zingine ifungwe

ili wananchi wafaidike katika kazi yao ya mikono ya kulima. Kuna sehemu zingine nikirudia kusema ya kwamba, katika sehemu

hii kuna sehemu tatu, sehemu ya nyada ya juu, kuna nyada ya katikati na kuna nyada ya chini na ukiangalia nyada ya juu

imefanya development nyingi; serikali ilikata mashamba na ikapatia watu title deed lakini nyada ya katikati hakuna maendeleo

yeyote ambaye imeyastawisha. Na nyada ya chini ya Soi, hakuna kazi ambayo inafanyiwa. Kwa hivyo tunataka kustawisha

sehemu ya nyada ya katikati na nyada ya soi ile hata wale ambao wanaishi huko wafaidike.

Jambo lingine ni nasema mambo ya masingira: mambo ya masingira hapo awali, wananchi au wazee wa zamani walikuwa

wakichunga misitu na kuifathi na kuangalia. Kwa hivyo tunataka wazee wapewe kazi hiyo na mkono ya serikali ipewe tu

kidogo halafu hii mambo ya masingira ichungike vizuri sana. Kwa hayo machache asanteni.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Councillor asante sana, ulipendekeza kuwe na ustawi, sawa, katika sehemu hii ya Baringo ama Rift

Valley. Unapendekeza iwe kila pahali kwa nchi ama ni hapa peke yake ambaye unazungumzia.

Councillor Alexander: Kila mahali katika nchi.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Kila mahali, asante sana councillor. Okay, jiandikishe hapa tafadhali. Okay kuna kitu commissioner

angependa kutaja.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Councillor, langu si swali, mimi nimestaajabu sana kwamba huku misitu yenu bado iko sawa sawa, miti

mnayo mizuri, kila mahali ukiangalia kijani, lakini bado una wasiwasi kwamba kuna watu wanakata miti huku?

Councillor Alexander: Sisemi ya kwamba watu wanakata miti lakini tunataka tu kuweka vikaso irudi kwa wazee, na serikali

iko mkono yake.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Sawa mzee.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana councillor. William Chebet, William Chebet, mzee naona umejiandisha uko na

memorandum, fupisha maneno ndio tuwaite wengine maanake watu wanaendelea kuongezeka tu.

William Chebet: nenyune ko amache ng’alekab kindene Katiba ng’alekab kurithi.

Translator: Yangu ni kwamba, nataka katika Katiba hii uridhi iwekwe dani.

William Chebet: Eng’ bitenyo achek ko kikochin murenik malik ko tebi tibik

Translator: Katika mila yetu ya Kitugeni mali wa wazazi hulidhiwa na wavulana wafulana na wasichana hawalidhi.

William Chebet: Ngunon komite lagok chemaitun chi ko kimoche kenai ole tononen.

Translator: Na kwa sasa kuna wasichana ambao hawajaolewa na tunataka Katiba itangaze msimamo wa kuwalida hao.

William Chebet: Kogeny ko mito mogoriot ne masiku werik

Translator: Pia kuna pachiri ambaye hajabarikiwa kuzaa wavulana

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William Chebet: ko nguno kotinye tibik ko mie koib malicho e.

Translator: na kwa sasa kama yeye amezaa wasichana, ni heri wasichana walidhi mali ya mzazi huyo.

William Chebet: Mi lagoi alake che motinye kwanisiek che menget kwanisiek,

Translator: Kuna watoto wengine ambao wazazi wao hawasaidii, wazazi wa kiume hawajulikani wako wapi.

William Chebet: kimoche kindene Katiba konyor ole motun ko tebe.

Translator: Tunataka wao wawekwe kwa Katiba yajulikane msimamo watasimama na watakuwa namna gani.

William Chebet: Ni hayo tu. Asante.

Com. P. Wambua: Asante sana William Chebet, jiandikishe hapa tafadhali. Maneno yako ni masafi, ni mazuri. Kabla

hatujaendelea ningelipenda kumtambua mwenyekiti wa Kanu Baringo district ambaye pia alikuwa hapo awali MP wa eneo ili

Bwana William Kamuren. Karibu mheshimiwa. Tutakupatia nafasi najua uko na mengi ya kusema lakini kwanza tuwasikize

watu wako halafu tutakupatia ukiwa tayari. Wawili watatu tutakupa nafasi. Kwa hivyo tutamwita Ezekiel K. Chemelil. Naona

hapa umesema utatupatia written memorandum kwa hivyo maneno yafupishwe. Lenga tu ile ya muhimu kwa summary halafu

basi.

Ezekiel K. Chemelil: Nitajaribu. Majina yangu naitwa Ezekiel Chemelil. I will go straight to the point. Nitaanza kwa those

candidates seeking for presidential seat. Qualification should be a degree and above.

Should be somebody mature enough, experienced in politics more than 10 years or if he was a civil servant he should have

served as a civil servant more than 10 years.

Kwa upande wa Bunge or Civic Local Cabinet: councillors na wabunge – Katiba hii tunaitengeneza, unajua ili Katiba ilianza

mwaka wa 1963 mpaka sasa. Hiyo Katiba was fit for those years up to now lakini Katiba tunayoitengeneza sasa ili itachukua

miaka mingine zaidi ya arubaine. Kwa hivyo, at that time, lazima tuangalie sawasawa na kwa hivyo maoni yangu should be a

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form 4 or equivalent. Mbunge ama councillor.

And then he should be tested in English and Kiswahili.

Mambo mengine ni kuhusu mambo ya land: mambo ya land kuna some communities whose land was taken for public utilities

may be to build schools or markets or hospitals and they have not been compensated although the commissions have looked

into. Tunataka hiyo iingie kwa Katiba ya kwamba kama kuna mambo namna hiyo watu walipwe kwa sababu some of the

communities have been left landless and they had land.

Mambo mengine kuhusu land tena: Sharing of property. Naungana na wenzangu wengine, although there are some customs,

yetu culture which discriminates wasichana. Hio mimi sipendelei, tunataka kama wasichana hawa watoto wake wapatiwe haki.

Kama msichana hakuolewa na kuna shamba shamba unawagawia. Mwingine anaweza kuzaa wasichana peke yake na unaona

according to our Tugeni culture, ati mali ya baba ichukuliwe na brothers and sisters na hawa watoto wawachwe nje. Hio

wakati huu tumefikia wakati hatutaki namna hiyo. Lazima kila mtu apatiwe haki kama akiwa ameapata nyumbani. Na hata wale

watoto wamezaliwa nyumbani na hapo na niwako.

Kuhusu commissions kama hii ama ingine tunahitaji iwekwe kwa Katiba. Ikiwa commission is like this one or ata ile ya Njonjo

juzi to look into things ama ile ingine ya clashes, tunataka ikiwekwa kwa Katiba, why is it not implemented? If it is

recommended na imewekwa kwa Katiba, kwa nini haitekeleshwi? Mambo which was recommended ama iletwe kwa raia wale

walitoa hiyo maoni? Tunataka iwekwe kwa Katiba, ikiwa kitu inapitishwa ipelekwe mahali ilikuwa imetoka.

Kuhusu appointments to managers ama directors to parastatals – hapa Kenya uchumi imeend chini, imeharibika kwa sababu

those who have been appointed hawana qualification ya hiyo kazi, so kwa hivyo ningependekeza ya kwamba people to be

appointed to the right positions. Ikiwa manager wa parastatal fulani awe na ujuzi ya hiyo kazi ama kuwa chairman ya hiyo kazi

other than appointing people without looking into whether they are qualified for those posts or not.

Customs zingine za Kalenjin, sisi tulikuwa na siraha zetu kama mishale, mikuki na nini. We would like to retain such things.

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Those cultures kwa sababu hiyo ni protection, hatuna siraha zingine.

Mambo ingine kuhusu communities kutahilisha wasichana na nini, there are some good cultures and bad cultures. Na hizi

zinaendanga na communities. Ingine faith yao is against, others are accepting kwa hivyo let us go by the communities’

recommendations. Kwa sababu tukisema ifanywe namna hii for example kama sisi kama wengine wakristo tunahitaji kama

wasichana hawajatahiliwa, iwekwe kwa Katiba ya kwamba, there should be a clause or a seminar (iwekwe nini

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Bwana Chemelil, muda umekwisha kabisa. Naona umeandika memorandum kwa hivyo nitakupa half

a minute umalize halafu utuachie memorandum tutaisoma.

Ezekiel Chemelil: Kenya should be majimbo – that’s for the government. Na boundaries we follow the current provincial

administration board lakini tureserve as headquarters.

Kwa hayo machache zingine nimeandika kwa mkono, kwa hivyo the writing may …. But I’m ready for a quation.

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: ngoja kidogo kwa sababu utaulizwa maswali.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Umehimisa sana habari ya elimu kwa waongozi, umesema mpaka mtu awe na degree ndio akuwe

President au awe na form four ndio akuwe councillor, lakini hujatwambia mambo ya heshima ya mtu kama mwongozi. Sasa

unataka Katiba iangalie elimu tu na isiangalie desturi ya mtu yule ambaye anatakikana kuwa mwongozi? Kwa maana hapa

Kenya hii Kenyatta hakukuwa na degree ya kutoka university, watu wengine walifikiria alikuwa nayo, hakukuwa nayo, huyu

amekuwa na degree tatu ya honorary, sasa unatwambia tupate mtu wa degree ile ya university na hutwambii desturi zingine ile

inahitajika kwa mtu kweli anaweza kulinda mioyo ya watu na nchi kubwa namna hii …. Na elimu tu, elimu peke yake?

Ezekiel Chemelil: I said or equivalent, nimesema the word equivalent, hivyo kama ana ujuzi in equivalent to that form 4 level

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Interjection

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Lakini mimi ninaangalia chombo ya ujumbe si degree peke yake.

Ezekiel Chemelil: Nitayaeleza tu nimesema or equivalent, unajua Katiba ku …

interjection

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kama ni mlevi je na ama degree? (laughter)

Ezekiel Chemelil: That why nimesema mature enough and experience. Na Katiba hii tunaitengeneza, in 40 years to come, I

don’t think in Kenyan , hakuna mtu hatakuwa amefika form 4, wote, hata saa hii karibu three quarters

Interjection:

Com. Zein Abubakar: Let me just clarify Mama’s question, shuld there be moral and ethical qualificans for leader?

Ezekiel Chemelil: Nitafikiria, hata mimi niongezee hapo ndio uelewe kile unachotaka kujua.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Utasema ni elimu peke yake tu, ama ungelipenda kuwe na elimu lakini tuangalie mambo mengine kama

vile mtu ujuzi aliyonayo, desturi yake, tabia yake?

Chemelil: Hiyo yote tutaangalia,

Com. Zein Abubakar: Iangaliwe yote?

Chemelil: Yes that’s why I’m saying there should be an abstitute taste, that’s how to _____ kuona kama physically need.

There are so many qualifications.

Interjection:

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Com. Abubakar Zein: Asante sana, nimeelewa sasa, Chemelil asante sana.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Tutamuita hapo Aaron Ruto.

Aaron Ruto: Bas, nenyun ne amwae ko amwae en nwogindo ng’alekab soko huru.

Translator: Yangu ni machache nitasema juu ya soko huru.

Aaron Ruto: Ngebo kemwa soko huru ko ng’et bik alak kobokobu tugun eng’ sang, si iro ko umian bik chemito

Kenya amatakoyai maendeleo ne kakimoche nebo tugukyok che kiyoei

Translator: Kwa sababu hili soko huru lilipoingia, watu wengi wakaenda nje kununua vitu halafu mazao yetu hayakupata

mahali pakuuziwa.

Aaron Ruto: Ye amwae kou agot ng’alekab bandek, ngano, momi san nebo Baringo mzima ko kikerta tugukab sang’

chebogeibunen Uganda anan ko oldage.

Translator: Ile ninaosema ni sana juu ya mahidi ingawa hapa Baringo hatupandi mahidi kwa wingi lakini hata kwa pahali

pengine watu wanaenda nje Uganda.

Aaron Ruto: Ko anyun kemoche kochop serkali kabisa ng’alekab soko huru ko mo kibu agot betut ne mite rur emet

kerwai bik alak che yae ng’alekab ukulima. Chamdayat koyai bik eng’ emeng’wan.

Translator: Ili jambo soko huru, serikali iangalie kwa makini isiendelee kwa sababu watu wetu hufanya kazi zao za mikono

kwa mashamba yao na wakati huu wakati wanatoa, wengine wanatoa kutoka nje ili watu wasipate faida ya kuelimisha watoto

wao kutumia mazao ya mashamba yao.

Aaron Ruto: Nebo aeng’ ko ng’alechon bo soko huru ko kit ne kikisas kityo ko ye kichamda soko huru koyai bik

tugun alak che makichome kou ng’alekab maiywek chon, komik, miten alak kartsi rain.i

Translator: Hili jambo soko huru imeleta madhala kwa sababu ilipoingia watu wametoa hata uuzaji hata wa pombe ya

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karatasi na imetuharibu.

Aaron Ruto: Ko agere agot amut chito age kabisa ne kichuten chini simakechut amune si kechut chichi kelenchon

kiye komen alak che mi kartasi che kioldoi.

Translator: Jana nilimuona mwingine akifulutwa alikiwa anaenda Kitale kabisa kwa sababu ya kulewa zaidi ni nilipouliza

nikaambiwa amenunua amekunya ile iko kwa karatasi.

Aaron Ruto: Ko yoteb chi chebo kumichoto kele bo bik che echen, bik che echen ko ng’o ako kiumiyan achek,

kiyumiyan bik. Kimwoe achek kot cho mi ak kele yach, chomi kartasi ne bo nee?

Translator: Na nilipouliza hii pombe imetoka wapi nikaambiwa ilitoka kwa mtu mkubwa nami nikaauliza huyu mtu mkubwa

namna gani huyu mtu mkubwa analete na agali huko sisi kule nyumbani tunakataa ile ya nyumbani? Na huyu mtu mkubwa

mwingine kuleta pombe kuharibu watu ni nani?

Aaron Ruto: Kole koro kandoik chebo division anan ko kirwogonon anan ko DO kasit ne yae ko bo kwong’ut alakini

nga mi alak che keibune kartasinaik che kakile nam yo ang’kimokochame ng’etu yo

Vernacular

Translator: Viongozi wetu wanafanya kazi juu chini ya kuona kwamba hii pombe imalizike kama DO na viongozi wengine

lakini sasa nani huyu mwingine anakubaliwa kumpa

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Can you please advise him to give us a proposal. Atupatie mapendekezo.

Aaron Ruto: Ko chechuk asase ale mamache anyun tugun che u chon

Translator: Hayo tu ndio nilikuwa nimesema tunakataa.

Aaron Ruto: Kimoche kecheny chichoto kekochi kasisiek alak, momoche komek chon.

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Translator: Huyu mkubwa akataliwe ______ kama hayo. Katiba isema halafu afanye kazi ingine ile ambayo haiharibu watu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana mzee,

Aaron Ruto: Ng’alek ko chon. Mami alak che amwae mising.

Translator: Maneno yangu ni hayo sina mengine ya kusema.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay, Alfred Komen

Alfred K. Komen: Thank you very much. My names ar Alfred K. Komen. I’m one of the leaders from ____ location, one

of the church leaders, I present here my own views and also the occupation of duty.

Commissioners we thank you for coming to this area and my personal points first are these:

In Kenya we have three types of marriages. That is, one through the Attorney General’s office and the other through religious,

and the other one is traditional. My suggestion, my personal feeling is that we should have only two. We have two types of

marriages in Kenya to avoid confusion and cheats. The ones that I recommend are those which are organized by religious

groups. The other one is traditionally organized but the one through the Attorney General’s office should be omitted. Reasons

are these:

That in tradition, these ones are closer to the people and they check according to their own tradition.

The other one, that’s through the religion, the religious group, they are organized but the one through Attorney General which

are done through the DC’s offices, this one bring a lot of confusion and cheats because some are people who are considered

adults because they have the age that requires their own personal witnesses without the presence of their parents. They do their

own wedding without the concent of their parents and as such, this one brings some disunity in some families and that is the one

I’m suggesting that we get lid of. And again there are other things which have not come even to .. bando haijaingilia katika

sehemu za watu wenyewe katika community zile ambayo zinafanyika kama unaweza kupata mwanaume akioona na mwanaume

mwingine, unaweza kupata bibi akioana na bibi mwingine. To avoid those ones, nikutoa hiyo sehemu watu wanaweza kuoana

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bila watu wao kujua.

Jambo lingine ambalo ningetaka kutoa kama maoni yangu binafsi, ni juu ya government officials ambao ni retirees ambao

wanatumikia serikali kwa muda mrefu baada ya ku-reture baada ya kufanyia serikali kazi kwa miaka zaidi ya miaka salasini.

Unapata somebody is retired lakini hajapatiwa pension benefits kidogo lakini mambo ingine kama housing, mambo mengine

kama medical inakataliwa halafu mtu anaenda kupata frustrations na anakufa haraka. Kwa hivyo ningependekeza kwamba,

iwekwe kwa Katiba ya kwamba civil servants ______ ichunguzwe na kuwekwa kama mambo ya housing, mambo ya medical

and so on kwa sababu hata wengine wanalipa pesa through NHIF, pesa zinaenda, pengine hata hawatumii na hata hawapati

chochote during their old age. Kwa hivyo mimi ningeonelea hapo.

Jambo lingine ambayo tulisema kama location ni kwamba kuna wajumbe na councillors ambao tunawachagua na baada ya

uchaguzi wanawacha watu wao na wanaenda kukaa kugojea tu miaka 5 yaishe ndio warudie watu kwa uchaguzi tena. Lakini

tungependelea iwekwe kwa Katiba ya kwamba, kama wenye kuchaguliwa wanawacha watu wao, basi waitwe ikiwa hata

kama ni mwaka mmoja ama miaka miwili, waitwe na watu wachague viongozi wengine. Watu wasiende kukaa kwa bunge kwa

miaka tano bila kufika kwa watu wao na mwishowe wanakuja wanawanunua halafu ndio watu wanakaa bila leader. Kwa hivyo

tumeona kama location tupendekeze tupitie kwa Katiba ili kama mtu anawacha watu wake anaitwa na elections zinafanywa.

Kwa mambo ya education

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: malizia malizia mzee, malizia manake muda umeisha. Malizia.

Alfred Komen: Kwa hivyo ikiwa ninamalizia, ni kwamba sisi tutatoa hiyo memorandum kupatia nyinyi na kwa hayo machache

nafikiri nitawachilia hapo.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kuna maswali hapa kidogo. Na kabla ya mzee Ayonga kukuliza, kuna moja tataka kukuuliza

mwenyewe. Ulisema hizi ndoa zinafanyiwa kwa Attorney General’s office ziishe, lakini kulingana na vile naelewa, kuna wale

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watu ambao hawaamini Mungu, kwa hivyo huwezi kuwalasimiza waende wakaoane kwa makanisa. Na pili hawa watu pia

wanaweza kuwa hawaamini, pengine wanatoka katika kabila tofauti tofauti kwa hivyo hata ili tradition, hawezi kuwa ako

bound. Kwa hivyo watu kama hawa wanataka kuoana tu, utawafanyaje, naile sheria ilikuwa inawekwa ndio wapate na nafasi

bila kwenda kwa makanisa na bila kwenda kwa tradition?

Alfred Komen: Vile sisi tulifikiria kwa sababu kulichukuwa muda kuongea juu ya hiyo, katika Africa, sithani ni Kenya peke

yake. Africa nzima kuna traditions ya Africans themselves, kwa hivyo hakuna kabila katika Africa ambayo haina tradition yake.

Kwa hivyo hiyo sisi tulifikiria ya kwamba, tukiwa na religious groups inaorganize wale ambo wanaambudu Mungu na

wanaogopa Mungu, basi wapitie kwa makanisa yao, kwa organization yao ya religion, lakini wale wengine waende kupitia kwa

tradition yao kwa sababu tunaamini wana tradition yao to avoid ile traditions ambao zitatoka katika nje ya Kenya, pengine

kutoka nchi zingine kama European countries, inakuja kuingia kama zamani kwetu hatujawahi kusikia mwanaume akioona na

mwanaume mwingine. Hatujawahi kusikia mwanamke akioana na bibi mwingine. Hio si African tradition, kwa hivyo hiyo ndio

wanaweza kupitia kwa maana watu ambao hawaogopi Mungu watapitia kwa Attorney General’s office.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante ngoja kidogo, while we are on that three types of marriages, je, Bwana Komen unajua

kwamba certificate inayotolewa na office ya Attorney General is the same certificate that we give when we conduct marriages in

the church and it is binding?

Alfred Komen: Thank you very much Bwana commissioner, you have even reminded me a point that I had in mind, that one

lets say kwa traditions, hatukuwa tukipeana certificates lakini kwa point ambayo tumeweka hapa ni kwamba wale wa tradition

wapatiwe (Katiba should allow a certificate to be given out by the elders of the tradition.) halafu

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Basi hiyo ni vizuri kwa maana hiyo (that was my second point, kwamba bona harusi za kitradition

siziithiniswe na office ya Attorney General wale watu wawe na certificate?) Thank you.

Alfred Komen: Okay thank you very much.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Sasa tutachukua nafasi hii kumuita Bwana Mheshimiwa William Kamoren – chairman KANU Baringo

district atupatie maoni yake pia.

William Kamoren: Asante sana commissioners na wasikilizaji wote, viongozi, DO wa area hii ya division ya Kabartonjo.

Yangu nitachukua machache kwa sababu watu wamesema mengi na sitaki kuchukua muda kwa sababu nasikia ile muda kila

mtu anapewa ni kidogo sana. Kwa hivyo nitaanza kwa kusema kwamba Katiba hii ni kitu ambacho kitakuja kusaidia watu

wetu wa miaka mingi kuliko ile Katiba tumekuwa naye tangu mwaka wa 1963. Ile ya 1963, iliundwa na kutengenezwa katika

Lanchestor House na imetuchukua Kenya miaka arubaine ikitulinda na amani ilioko katika nchi hii. Kwa hivyo hii ni Katiba ya

kwanza kujadiliwa kupelekwa kwa raia na ijadiliwe katika bunge la Kenya na wanakenya wenyewe na commissioners hawa ni

wanakenya wenyewe ambao watatekeleza aina ya Katiba itakayo wekwa na iweze kuendesha Kenya hii kwa miaka mingi

ijayo. Hiyo ni shukurani.

Yangu ni kuanza hivi, katika zile nguvu za President, President ako na nguvu tatu, ambaye ni Executive, Legislature, na

Judiciary. Katika nchi yetu ningependekeza kwamba President apewe nguvu zake zote zifaazo kama vile President wa kwanza

hayati Mzee Jomo Kenyatta alikuwa nazo. Na aendeshe naye kwa sababu tukipeana powers na tuondow zingine, awe na

_____ powers ama nguvu kidogo nchi haitaenda vizuri sababu yeye ni decision maker wa nchi yake na lazima akiwa na ile

organ inaitwa cabinet, wakati watakapokata yale wanakata, haitakiwi iwe ni kidogo huku na pale lakini apewe awe President

atakaye kuwa incharge ya Executive, ya Judiciary na vile vile ya Legislature ili aweze kuvuja bunge jinsi inavyosemekana na vile

ilivyo katika Katiba. Na tena na watu waende uchaguzi kama Katiba ilivyo. Hiyo ndio pendekezo langu commissioners.

President awe na nguvu zake zote katika Katiba. Asinyang’anywe hata kidogo. Akitaka kusema Chief Justice wa High Court

ni fulani, achukuwe nafasi yake na kuappoint huyo. Akisema Speaker wa National Assembly ni fulani, na yeye asikizwe na awe

na nguvu zake katika legislature. Akisema tunataka parmanent secretaries na head of civil service na parmanent secretaries wale

wengine wanaofuata wawe ni fulani na fulani awe na nguvu zake hizo. Katika Kenya hii, head of state should have ll the powers

as contained within the constitution. Asante sana.

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Ya pili, IPPG iliondoa nguvu za chiefs katika Kenya na ndio ni mbaya kwa sababu wakora wanaweza kufanya mambo hovyo

hovyo. Kwa hivyo chief awe na powers zake zile zinaitwa chief’s Act. Chief awe na nguvu zake, arudishiwe nguvu zake kama

vile inawezekana halafu aweze kuchunga location yake, aweze ku-discipline ama kumpa adaabu watu katika location yake

kama inavyotakikana kwa sababu kama chief anaenda akiwa na nguvu kidogo huku na pale, itakuwa ni gumu yeye mwenyewe

kutawala location hiyo. Kwa hivyo huyo chief ama chief yeyote katika Kenya nzima warudishiwe nguvu zao na kufuatana na

vile ilivyokuwa zamani ama hapo awali. Na ile ya IPPG watu wa Katiba ama commissioners watusaidie iondolewe jambo

iliyotokea katika IPPG.

Ingine ni kwamba bunge la Kenya iongezwe kwa sababu Katiba vile ilivyo si karatasi ambayo inapelekwa huku na pale, Katiba

ni kitu inatakiwa kupelekwa pole pole, ikimalizika, irudishwe tena kwa watu hawa hawa ambao wako hapa, waja wasaishe ni

nini walisema. Ikiisha, irudishwe katika bune kujadiliwa. Na hapo President aweke sahihi kabila ya hiyo Katiba mpya kufanya

kazi yake. Kwa hivyo wakati huu ikiwezekana Katiba ama nafasi iongezwe katika bunge letu wakati huu. Waendelee mpaka

Katiba hii ikwishe mpaka Head of State ama President wetu aweke sahihi hiyo Katiba. To accent his signatur one tie is a

problem. Kwa hivyo ili tuwe na Katiba iliyo na maana, na ambayo itatulinda katika nchi hii. Hii watu wanafikiria Katiba ni kitu

ya kuzungumza hapa na kuwacha, ni kitu ambaye inatakiwa kuangaliwa kwa vyovyote. Both sides of the coin must be

observed and looked into security wise. Hiyo ndio kitu ya maana. Kwa hivyo, naikiongezwa bunge, tunataka registration of

voters kwa wale hawajashika, vile vile kwa sababu kama ni kuongezwa itaenda mpaka mwaka wa elfu mbili na tatu.

Na registration of voters vile vile wapewe nafasi ya kujiandikisha vile vile. Na hiyo itoke katika commissioners, halafu iende

katika Kibuitu’s department ambaye ni electoral commission, wawape nafasi vijana wetu ambaye hawajapata kura waweze

kushika kura na ID cards ili wapige kura kwa uchaguzi ujao. Kwa sababu kama inakuwa extended iende kwa muda ile inafaa

ikiwa itafika mwezi wa sita mwaka ujao, na kama itakuwa ngumu kwa bunge kupitisha, tupewe raia. Mimi vile vile nilikuwa

mbunge na mimi leo ni raia. Turudishe kwa raia, tuwape nguvu wabunge ambao tulichagua waende wapitishe kwa muda ile ya

kutosha. Halafu nyinyi commissioners vile vile, wakati bunge inaendelea, mnaendelea kwa mwaka huo wa 2003 kwa kazi yenu

mpaka mnaakilisha tupate Katiba iliyo bora kabla ya President kuweka sahihi. Na tutawashukuru. Ya hapo ni kwamba

parliament mara kwa mara inaongezwa siku zake kama kuna vita, when there is war and if the country goes to _____

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parliament inaongezwa lakini hatuna vita katika Kenya na hakuna shida yeyote katika Kenya, tunakaa kwa amani ya serikali ya

President Moi. Kwa hivyo tunataka Mungu vile anatuongezea hii amani, tuongezewe vile vile mwendo wa bunge kuendelea

ndio tupate Katiba nziru. Sisi hatuna vita sasa, hatuna taabu yeyote lakini parliament iongezeke iendelee, waendelee wale wako

katika bunge mpaka Katiba iwe tayari.

Tuliongezwa wakati mimi nilikuwa bunge 1963 commissioners, niliingia bunge nikiwa na miaka na 24. Wakati ilifika, I’m a

commissioner of zenith na house of representatives, mimi nilikuwa katika house of representatives. President Kenyatta alituuliza

tufanye nini kwa sababu zenith ilikuwa ni kutakiwa kuja kutengenezewa constituencies ya kukatwa katika zile constituencies

zilikuwa ni existing constituencies. Sasa tulikubaliana bunge iongezeke, uchaguzi ambao ungeendeshwa ama ungekuwa

umetangazwa 1967 from 1693, tukaongezewa wakati huo tukakubali kuongeza wakati huo mpaka 1969; nailiongezwa 1968 na

1969. Na 1969 uchaguzi ukafanywa, na Kenya iliendelea! Na zenith ilikuwa imefujwa halafu twende sasa kukata sehemu ya

constituencies za wale senators kuja kurepresent vile vile, na Katiba iliendelea na tukaendelea mpaka wakati huu. Kwa hivyo

mimi nilikuwa ninaona, wacha bunge iongezwe wakati huu itusaidie kwa nafasi ya kutosha wakati nyinyi commissioners

mnaendelea kutekeleza zile zimebaki halafu uchaguzi ufanywe wakati unaofaa kwa wakati umefika na commissioners na

electoral commission wachukuwe nafasi yao to liase na commissioners kwa Katiba kwa wakati huu mpaka Katiba iwe tayari.

Katika upande wa constituencies: Constituencies katika Kenya ikatwe katika sehemu zingine na isiende katika sehemu za watu

wengi peke yake. Kuna sehemu watu ni wachache lakini constituency ama sehemu mbunge anarepresent ni kubwa sana na

watu ni nomadics, wanachukua ng’ombe mpaka Maralal, wanachukua ng’ombe mpaka Kerio Valley, wanachukua ng’mbe

mpaka masaai lakini watu wakitembea wanafikiri watu hawako, mvua ikinyesha watu wanarudi na ng’ombe zao, watu tayari

wako katika sehemu zao. Sehemi zingine ni milima na maponde, sehemi zingine ni semi-arid areas. Commissioners ama Katiba

itusaidie; ikiwezekana, sehemu zingine zikatwe zipate constituencies zingine. Niliona juzi katika gazeti proposal ya kwamba

Kenya ipewe constituencies zaidi ya tisaine. Kama vile Uganda iko na zaidi ya mia mbili na kitu na Tanzania wako na zaidi ya

mia mbili na kitu. Sasa East Africa community imeunganishwa na parliament yake iko Arusha. Kenya iko na mia mbili na kumi

peke yake. Kwa hivyo kama ni kuongeza, tafadhali tuongezewe hata sisi katika sehemu hizi. Si kwamba hili likamiliwe katika

bunge. Nikisema hivyo, nataka iangaliwe kinaganaga ikiwezekana sehemu zile zakuongezwa. Hapa katika semi-arid areas

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katika Pokot, Baringo East, ni sehemu kubwa kutoka Kolol mpaka Churo na kutoka Luyamlo mpaka Tiriopo. Mimi nilikuwa

mbunge wa kwanza huko. Mpaka wakati huu ni mbunge mmoja tu. Hapa North Baringo, kutoka Temwai mpaka Kenai

ambaye inapakana na Loiwa kwa upande wa Luyamlo. Hii ni sehemu kubwa mpaka upande wa North Baringo mpaka Kerio

Valley. Hapa ikikatwa kutoka Temuai na kwenda kutelemka, constituency ya pande hii itakuwa ingine na ya upande ule

itakuwa ingine. Watu wa sehemu hii watashika watoto ama vijana wao to represent katika parliament na kazi ya serikali ama

ya kutekeleza iwepo development itakuwa ni rahisi kwa kazi ya sehemu hii. Na watu hapa North Baringo ni wengi. Sisemi

hapa ni kupigania wapate constituency ya pili, ama kuongezwa constituency, nasema katika Kenya nzima. Hiyo tisaine

ikikubaliwa, sehemu ambayo ni semi-arid areas, hata kama watu ni wachache wakatiwe constituency hiyo sababu sehemu hiyo

ni kubwa.

Kwa hivyo mimi singekuwa na mengi commissioners, yangu tu ni kusema kwamba, wakati mwingine mbunge anachaguliwa

kama ______ baada ya uchaguzi unapotea miaka yote tano unakaa Nairobi na raia wanakaa hawaoni yeye. Iwepo sehemu

ingine katika Katiba ya kusema, kama mbunge anapotea kwa muda fulani, wale walichagua wapewe nafasi kuita yeye na

kupitisha resolution na waweke referendum ya watu elfu moja aondolewe katika bunge, ______ nyumbani, mwingine

achaguliwe aende kurepresent watu. Hiyo ni kitu, wewe usisema, ukitaka kusema kuja hapa kwa sababu hii ni commission.

Hiyo ni kitu ambayo unaweza kuona katika sehemu ingine, mbunge anachaguliwa anakaa Nairobi anakula mshahara, anakaa

huko, watu hamuoni. Mimi sisitaki mtu, mimi nasema maoni yangu kama Kamrel. Kama Kamrel ni huyo, huyo mtu, watu waite

mkutano yao, waweke referendum, waandike watu elfu moja waweka sahihi, huyo mbunge anaitwa Kamrel arudishwe

Kabartonjo. Aachwe hapa na watu wapewe nafasi kufuatana na Katiba mpya. Wachague mwingine wa kwenda kutekeleza

mambo yao katika bunge hii. Na yeye asione ni vibaya kwa sababu kuna msichana moja commissioners anaitwa Mrs. Chebrol.

Mrs. Chebrol huyu ni msichana anapewa kila mbunge akiweza kuchaguliwa, anapewa anaenda naye huyu msichana. Uchaguzi

ukija msichana yule anakuja anapewa huyu mwingine. Kwa hivyo huyo msichana, kama anaenda kukaa na mtu katika Nairobi

miaka tano na huyo mtu hapana rudi, msichana vile vile arudi kwa Kapigoi. Huko nyumbani kwa wale waliomzaa yeye na

kusema huyu bwana yangu hawezi kufanyia nyinyi chochote, na msichana akumbaliwe na wazazi wake. Arudishwe huyo

mwanaume ili uchaguzi ifanywe representation iwepo. Kwa hivyo yangu sitaki kusema mengi ni hayo tu. Mungu awabariki na

muendelee na kazi yenu kinaganaga.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana mheshimiwa, tumekuongezea muda maanake yale ulioyasema yalikuwa ya kupendeza

lakini kuna maswali kidogo tafadhali.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Mheshimiwa Kamoren, umesema yule mbunge ambaye haonekani katika constituency yake watu elfu

moja wakikusanyika wanaweza kurecall this person home. Nataka pia uangalie hivi, Kamoren aliposhinda kura, kuna mtu

fulani aliyekuwa amebaki hapa nyumbani alikuwa anataka kuingia bunge, na huyu mtu atakuwa anatafuta mambo against

Kamoren ambaye yuko huko bunge na atakusanya watu elfu moja ili warudishe Kamoren nyumbani, sasa, ni safeguard gani

ambayo tungeweza kuwa nayo kwamba huyu ambaye aliyeshidwa kura hapa nyumbani, kazi yake isiwe ya kuhubiri against

Kamoren arudishwe?

William Kamoren: Asante sana Bwana Commissioner, hiyo section ama clause ikiwekwa katika Katiba, sikusema kwamba

lazima italazimiza yule yuko bunge kukimbia hapa nyumbani ama kuludishwa baada ya hiyo watu elfu moja kuweka sahihi

kusema arudi. Ni kwamba, akisha jua kuna sehemu ya Katiba ambaye inampa nguvu raia waliyemchagua yeye, yeye vile vile

atafanya kazi yake kinaga naga, atakuwa Nairobi nakurudi nyumbani kila wakati. Kwa hivyo yule number two yake hawezi

fuata yeye vile vile nafasi. Atakaa akijua yule yuko chojo kila saa anarudi anakwenda anarudi. (laughter)

Com. Pheobe Asiyo: Hata mimi nina swali ingine Bwana Kamoren, umesema kwamba nguvu zote ambazo President wa

Kenya wawili wamekuwa nazo, ikae vile ilivyo, na pia unajua kwamba tabia ya wale Presidents tumekuwa nao ilikuwa ni bahati

ya Mungu tu. Sasa ukisema nguvu hizi zote wawachiwe wale watakao kuja, na pia tunaambiwa wawe ni watu wana elimu ile ya

juu, huoni kwamba pengine huenda kama kuna mtu ambaye siye mwaminifu sana kwa watu wake au mtu ambae anamuamini

Mungu, anaweza akatumia hizi nguvu kwa njia mbaya mpaka nchi ikahalibika, kwa maana ni rahisi kwa nchi kuhalibika. Kwa

sasa tuna watu wengi, we are dealing with a very sophisticated group of people in this country, if we go on, okay we have done

very well until now, if we are to leave the entire Executive that one perhaps can remain with the Presidential okay, but the

Legislature and the Judiciary, are you really happy that the arrangement should remain the same as they are to day for the next

50 years? Are you sure that Kenyans will accept it in the next 20-30? We are hoping that this constitution will remain with us

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for another 100 years. Are you happy that this should be the case?

William Kamoren: Asante sana commissioner. Commissioner huyu anayeniuliza swali hili, tulikuwa naye katika bunge, na

yeye ni commissioner, very brilliant, na asante sana kwa kuuliza swali hilo. Kwa nini nimesema hivyo commissioners ni kwa

sababu zangu zifuatavyo:

Kuchaguliwa kwa kiongozi huchaguliwa na watu wawili, kunachaguliwa na Mwenyezi Mungu kwa kutawala watu wake na tena

Mungu anapeana nafasi ya pili kuchaguliwa na wale watu ambao huyo kiongozi atamtawala. Kenya na kabila hizi arubaine na

mbili, tangu mwaka wa 1963 mpaka wakati huu, ile akili iko katika Kenya hii ni kubwa sana, its so enormous kwamba watu

wakituu kwa kiwaja kutafuta uchaguzi, tayari watu wa Kenya watajua ni nani anaweza kuchaguliwa. Na yeyote

atakayechaguliwa, hiyo ni kweli commissioner, wengine wakipata kiwango fulani ya masomo wanaweza kufika utawala

kiwango fulani ya kuweza kunyanyasha watu. Hiyo ni kweli kabisa lakini akichukua nafasi ya kuchukua ile nguvu kidogo

kufuatana na hizo three organs of the system of government, itakuwa yeye vile vile atakuwa akitabataba mahali pa kushika,

kama ni kufuja bunge, na kuwa ngumu. Kwenda kuappoint wale judges wa High Court, inakuwa ngumu, na tena kurudi tena

kwa Executive itakuwa ni mtu ako na sehemu moja; ikiwa ni Executive, atalalia hapo, lakini hizi zingine, lazima yeye kama ni

Head of State akitaka kuweka country iwe kitu kimoja, yeye lazima awe na hizo powers tatu. Huenda pengine President yule

mwingine ambaye anaweza kushikilia nchi hii awe pengine ni kijana kuliko wale Presidents wa mbele, na huyu President wetu

yuko sasa, pengine akishika wale watamzunguka, huenda unaweza kuona ni lika yake. Lakini President wowote akiwacha

office, yule atashika, lazima awe na wazee wengine kwa kuendesha kazi hiyo pamoja. Hawezi kuwa yule peke yake. Kwa

hivyo wale wataendesha pamoja watamsaidia huyu kuona ya kwamba ako na nguvu zake za kuendesha kazi. Na kweli

hatutaki mtu ambaye atashika awe na hizo powers zote tatu na aweze kunyanyasha Kenya, hatutakubali kwa sababu tumekaa

kwa amani kwa hii miaka arubaine.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kwa nini bando huwezi kurecomend kwamba hata President akichagua judge, bunge ilidhimishe

uchaguzi? Kama hujui kama huyu kijana President atapenda wazee, atapenda rika yake juu ni rika yake tu, hawezi penda

wazee pengine.

41

William Kamoren: Basi, kama ni hivyo, kusaisha urimi kutoka urimi ingine ni nzuri. Kwa hivyo kama ni kuhidhimishwa katika

bunge, judge wa high court ili aweze kujulikana ni nani anaweza kushikilia kiwango hiyo na kukaa katika office hiyo kuu ya

sheria, huletwa katika bunge halafu unawekwa ile kichungi vizuri, hiyo naweza kubalia wewe hiyo commissioner. Thank you

very much.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Mheshimiwa kwa maoni yako. Tafadhali jiandikishe hapo, tumeyapokea ya muhimu na

tutahakikisha ya kwamba tutayaangalia wakati wa kuandika report. Charles Katepesi, Charles Katepesi.

Charles Katepesi: Kwa majina ninaitwa Councillor Charles Katepesi. Yangu nitasema ni machache kwa sababu wale

walitangulia wamesorota sorota zangu. Basi hii mambo ya Katiba nimefurahia kwa sababu inasemekana Katiba inarekebishwa

sio kuanzishwa. Nikisema namna hiyo ni kweli kwa sababu tangu miaka ya sitini na tatu mpaka leo, ni miaka mingi iliopita na

nyinyi commissioners mnaona watu wa Kenya vile walivyo, wana afya nzuri, inaonekana hiyo Katiba ilichunga hawa mpaka wa

leo. Kwa sababu nitaruka ruka yale nilikuwa nikifikiria nitasema, nachukua nafasi hii kusema, kiongozi safi ni lazima siku zake

ziongezewe. Kama mtu amekuwa kiongozi, ni lazima siku zake ziongezewe. Kama mtu alikuwa kiongozi hasa kwa raia yetu,

kama mtu amekuwa kiongozi mzuri na wakati muda wake umekwisha, raia wawe na haki ya kuongezea kwa sababu ya kazi

yake nzuri.

Jambo lingine, wale wazee wa mitaa, ile mwenzangu mwingine amesha sema, ni shirt au ni mzuri, wapewe rupu rupu baada ya

kazi yao kwa sababu hawa wanachunga kazi kutoka masinani.

Jambo lingine ambaye nataka iingizwe kwa Katiba, ni watoto wa shule wapewe discipline kama zamani kwa sababu mtoto

asiopigwa kiboko kama zamani kwa utaratibu ya mashule, mtoto asipokuwa na discipline hawezi kupita kwenda shule ile nzuri

kwa hivyo hiyo ningeoma irudishwe wapewe mwalimu ndio mtoto akikosa afanyiwe kazi zake na walimu, na head master aajua

ni nani atapiga huyu mtoto kiboko halafu apate kufanya kazi zake nzuri.

Jambo lingine, kwa sababu nilisema hii Katiba yetu ilituchunga kutoka wakati ule mpaka leo kwa sababu inalekebishwa,

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ningelitaka nyinyi commissioners kwa sababu hata nyinyi pia ni watu wa hapa Kenya, muone katika dunia ni nchi gani ambayo

imekuwa na maendeleo nzuri sana na Katiba yao ilikuwa namna gani? Kwa sababu hata sisi pia tukiwa watu wa Kenya

tunataka Katiba ambayo inaweza kuingiza sisi tufanye maendeleo ili tuinue nchi yetu haraka.

Kuhusu mambo ya bunge sasa, ningeonelea, kwa sababu Katiba inataka kulekebishwa ili ipate kuchunga watu wa Kenya

ifanywe pole pole mpaka itosheke kwa sababu ikifanywa haraka na hii ni maisha ya binadamu haitaweza kuwa mzuri. Kwa

hivyo ifanywe pole pole hata ikiongezwa bunge ni sawa.

Jambo lingine ambayo karibu ninamaliza sasa, nataka pia iingie kwa Katiba kwa sababu wazazi au wananchi kwa jumla

wanaweka kusomesha watoto wao na baada ya watoto kupata kazi kubwa kubwa wanaenda hao huko bila kujulisha hata

wazazi wao na mtu anakaa na bibi yake. Mzee kule nyumbani utakuta anakunakuna chawa tu peke yake kwa sababu mali

yake yote ilikwishia yule kijana au wale watoto wake. Kwa hivyo nataka ifanywe Katiba ambayo inaweza kumpa kijana atunze

wazazi wake. Na kama ikikuwa hataki kusaidia wazazi wake, basi inaweza kutoa sehemu yake kidogo tu hata shiringi elfu tano

nne kukatwa kwenda kwa mzazi ili asiangaike sana.

Basi ya mwisho

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Nilikuwa nafikiria hiyo ndio ilikuwa ya mwish mzee. Taja hiyo ya mwisho halafu tumalize.

Charles Katepesi: Basi kiongozi mzuri baada ya kazi yake ni lazima au ni vizuri achugwe. Na nitaka hiyo iandikwe kwa

Katiba kwa sababu wale wzee wetu viongozi hayati Jomo Kenyatta alituchunga miaka kumi na tano, na mtukufu rais Mai

alituchung mpaka lea miaka ishirini na nne hivi. Tunataka baada ya yeye kwenda retire, achungwe vizuri sana isije ikakuwa

asante ya punda ni teke. Basi kwa hayo machache nasema asante.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Councillor. Jiandikishe hapa tafadhali. Sijui, sioni majina ya akina mama kwa hii list,

kuna mama ambaye amejiandikisha na hajaitwa? Ambaye anataka kuzungumza? Yuko? Wakina mama, kuna mama ambaye

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angelipenda kuzungumza na kutoa maoni yake? Wanasema je? Wanajitayarisha? Basi, na kuna mwenzetu mwingine tulimuona

hapo aliketi pande ile ambaye alikuwa na ulemavu, tungelipenda kumpatia na nafasi kama anataka kuzungumza. Unataka kutoa

maoni? Na wale ambao wangelitaka kuzungumza na hawajapeana majina yao kujiandikisha kwa orodha, tafadhalini endeni

mjiandikishe ndio tukikufikia tukiita jina uje hapa utoe maoni yako. Hata ukiwa umekuja hapa kuzikiza pia, unatakiwa

ujiandikishe ndio tujue ni kina nani aliyefika hapa kwa hiki kikao. Kwa hivyo hakikisha jina lako liko kwa orodha – kwa list.

Taja jina mzee na uendelee.

Kiptalam Masirben: Kainenyun ko Kiptalam Masirben. Ya ubatizo ni David Masirben.

Translator: Jina langu ni Kiptalam Suruben na majina mengine mabatizo David ama Surube.

Kiptalam Suruben: Shida ne kitinye achek bik che maimuche ke ko kemuche ketinye lagok ko lagok komoche school

fees. Keba kecheng’u ko makinyoru kabisa.

Translator: shida zetu sisi ambao ni walemavu, tuna watoto ambao wanaenda shule lakini hatuna pesa za kuwaelimisha ni

shida.

Kiptalam Suruben: Nebo aeng’ ko mi kartasisiek che kikakitoretech bik che mei muchegei, kemuche kenyit ago

kakikere kiy age tugul. Kiyoktoi kityo kobetos, makikere.

Translator: Wakati mwingine tunapewa form ya kujaza ya wale ambao hawajiwezi na tunajaza kila wakati, tunatuma, na

hatupati majibu.

Kiptalam Suruben: Kwa hayo machache tu sina mengi ya kusema.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Mzee, umesema David?

Kiptalam Suruben: David ama Suruben

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kongoi?

44

Kiptalam Surben: Kongoi Mising.

Com. Wambua: Jiandikishe huko. Sasa tutamuita – naona hapa tumepewa majina ya akina mama. Nasikia Evelyne Kandie

ako tayari. Anaweza kuja hapa? Evelyne Kandie, aje tafadhali hapa.

Everlyne Kandie: Kongoi mising.

Translator: Asante sana

Everlyne Kadie: Kotom ang’alal achame akatak en kainetab Jeiso.

Translator: Ningependa niwasalimu katika jina la Yesu

Everlyne Kadie: Kotom amwa kiy age tugul achame amwa kongoi agobo ng’alechu bo raini.

Translator: Ili niseme ninataka kushukuru kwa ajiri ya mambo ya leo,

Everlyne Kadie: Ng’akekab raini ko ng’alekab Katiba chebo ng’atutik chebo bikyok chebo Kalenjin.

Translator: Mambo ya leo ni Katiba ambayo inahusu watu wetu hasa hata watu wetu wa Kelenjin.

Everlyne Kadie: Kobotoi choton ko ng’alek che chang’ mising ko bunu lagokyok ak chepyosok ak murenik

Translator: Na hayo mambo yote yanahusu watotot wetu, wakina mama na wanaume na wazee.

Everlyne Kadie: Ko ng’atutioni ko kimi koboch Musa kobunu emetab Misri.

Translator: Hili sheria ilikuwako tangu wakati wa Musa walipotoka kule misiri.

Everlyne Kadie: Ko kimite agot koboch kemwochini Joseph koboto kanyin Maria kelenjin wui chitugul ib kesir

kainenyin en emenyin koboto kanyin ak bik tugul chebo emonoton.

Translator: Hata ilikuwako wakati ule wakati Yusuf na Mariam walipoambiwa kila mmoja aende ajiandikishe kwao.

45

Everlyne Kadie: Ko ng’atutioni bo Kenya ko kimoche keng’at asi kobit korib lagokyok asi tun konyor ng’atutik che

kibo koboch eng’ taunet.

Translator: Katiba hii ya Kenya basi ni Katiba mzuri ambayo inatupasa tuiunde vizuri ili watoto wetu waufuate.

Everlyne Kadie: Kimi ng’atutioni agot komi bikab House of Lords an House of commons en kotab ng’atutik ne kibo

Parliament.

Translator: Katiba ilikuwa hata inatoa muudo wakati kulikuwa na house of roads na house of commons kwa parliament ya

wakati huo.

Everlyne Kadie: Ko ng’olyot ne amwae ko konamge ak chepyosok.

Translator: Na jambo hili basi ninataka kusema kwa juu ya hata akina mama.

Everlyne Kadie: Ko ng’alekab chepyosok ko kimoche kerib lagokyok. Neranik ak tibik asi kobit konai ng’atutik

chebo betusiek che bwone.

Translator: Akina mama Katiba inawapase iwafundishe wasichana sana wajue namna ya kuishe, na kwa maisha yao ya

baadaye.

Everlyne Kadie: Amun ng’akekab raini ko melen to keyae tumotinwek kou ye kikiyoe koboch keny en ng’atutik.

Translator: Kwa sababu kwa wakati huu ati ufanye mambo kulingana na mira ile ilikuwako desturi ya zamani.

Everlyne Kadie: Amin ki keny ko kikiyae tuguk chechang che kikerge ak soro koboto agot ng’alekab kipili.

Translator: Kwa sababu zamani katika utamaduni wetu tulikuwa na serehe za kitamaduni mbali bali ambazo zilikuwa

zikiranywa.

Everlyne Kadie: Ko bik alak ko kiyae ng’alekab teldel ko bik alak ko kiyaei kwang’et.

46

Translator: Hiyo siwezi kuelewa, wengine walikuwa wakifanya serehe bali bali ya kitamaduni.

Everlyne Kadie: Ko kibetusiechoi ko ki katikondo melen kikiyoe kobo buch.

Translator: Lakini kwa hiyo yoote, kwa utamaduni ilikuwanga hari ya kukuza na kufanya watu wawe wazuri.

Interjection:

Com. Wambua: Utaeleza mama, kidogo kidogo tafadhali, mwambia atupatie proposals maanake tungelipenda kuwa na

pendekezo Angependa tufanye nini?

Everlyne Kadie: Ko kit ne amache anyun ko amache katikanutik, ye kitikon lagokyok ko tun mwishowe ko rube

tuguk che kakitigon kong’eten betut ne bo raini.

Translator: Kwa hayo yote na ningetaka ielezwe kwa Katiba kwamba tuwape watoto wetu mafunzo kamili ili wapate

kuelewa namna ya kuishi.

Everlyne Kadie: Komoche si ye kiiko lagokyok agot en sugulisiek korib ng’atutik chebo kong’eten ngunon asi kobit

konyor ripest ne bo baadaye.

Translator: Hata na watoto wetu kule shuleni wakifundishwa na wafindishwe vizuri ni dhamu na ili wapate kukuwa wazuri

baadaye.

Everlyne Kadie: Alen abochini yon, matamuchi amwa alak.

Translator: Hapo ni mwisho.

Com. Wambua: Mama tafadhali, asante sana, jiandikishe huko. Tutamwita, yule atakayefuata kulingana na orodha ni Mr.

Silas Chepseregon,

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Silas Chepseregon: Thank you commissioners. The proposals that are going to make are personal. My names are Silas

Chepseregon.

The first proposal that I want to make is equal distribution of national resources to post the government and the opposition sides

equally not to the ruling party areas alone first.

Secondly, I would propose a government of national unity.

Third is a law which is protecting the President to be honoured and be respected whichever ethnic group that he comes from or

any party.

Fourth I would propose a vote of no confidence to an MP who does not deliver to the people. If in any case he does not

deliver to the people there should be a vote of no confidence given by their constituents and stopped from continuing as an MP.

No registration of any religious parties or any parties which are affiliated to ethnical lines. Partaining that:

a) No formation of religious laws or tribal.

b) No segregation or flagmentation of national unity that should protect (I’m saying that to protect the national unity in

this nation, no reliogion should say we want to have laws, partain it to ourselves or protect us to segregate from

other communities or any tribe.

Decentralization of office of Members of Parliament. It should be in the constituency level. Apart from they said they should

attend parliament, they should be in the constituency level and should always be present with the constituents.

We should have a partilize system of democracy

The constitution on individual basis. I’m saying this because I just want to propose that when there is an election, somebody

should be standing not being backed by any political party. He should stand as a sole person that is known by the people he is

a favourite of the people should be selected as a personality not a party status.

AIDS – laws are protecting both parents and children and strict rules in schools including training should be called back to

schools again. I’m saying this because of one thing again. We are seing that there are laws which were taken to parliament

recently and children can now take their parents to court. That one should be discontinued. Parents should be given the

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mandate to lead their children to discipline their children and this law to protect the parent also not the child alone because I

understand the parents can be taken to court and be jailed and the child is set free.

International anthem is a prayer to God. No ungodly laws should be legislated in this nation in any way:

We have seen many nation laws which are not end of side a tape 2

Every law that is registered today should be those who fear God and it honours God in this nation.

Swift anticorruption laws affecting all people including the three organs of Government, that is Executive, Judiciary, and the

Legislature.

Impeachment of a President should also come in if there is offer or is mentioned or is done in a scandle. It should always be

impeachment by the government. Also ministers should be impeached if at all they are caught in a scandle and corruption

and also those who are in the organs of the government.

Provision of public schools equipment: The government should provide to all public schools equipment like before and

education for all because we understand some parents are not able to pay even little. Now,

Com. P. M. Wambua: You must summarize now because the time is up now on

Silas Chepseregon: I’m summarizing, I’m just mentioning a point.

_________ and broking of federal government law proposal the same and enhance national unity.

The President should be head of the state and commandar in chief of the armed forces

Appointment of a retired general, interuptable track of record to parliament to be aid the same and there should be the ministry

of defence but this person should not be an MP who is ___.

Those seeking political asylum in this nation should always follow the right channel. Not to have an abide after quoting

_______ in their nation and come and hide in this nation.

The last one is state land, population and law protecting all people. There should be no squatters and anybody should be

everybody including those who are in the arid areas should be considered to be given land in urban areas. Thank you.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana. Kidogo. Umetaja impeachment ya President should he misbehave, does not

perform,ukasema MPs if they don’t perform they should be recalled and you said nothing about a councillor. Suppose the

councillor doesn’t perform?

Chepseregon: I’m sorry I didn’t mention that, but all the legislative posts, that one should apply.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay, kuna swali nyingine hapa.

Com. Abubakar Zein: In your proposals you have envisaged the existent of political party but you are saying that candidates

should not belong to party. What will be the role of political parties there?

Chepseregon: All the political parties should be denounced and cancelled.

Com. Abubakar Zein: So you don’t want any political parties? Because my understanding, you will say the abolish?

Chepseregon: Yes

Com. Abubakar Zein: There should be no political parties?

Chepseregon: Yes

Com. Abubakar Zein: So you are envisaging only independent candidates.

Chepseregon: Yes.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Okay.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay Asante sana, jiadikishe hapa tafadhali.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: In the beginning you really advocated the unity systems of government, and towards the end may be I

didn’t understand you correctly, you also said nothing about a federal system of governance, we

Chepseregon: I said the federal system of government should not be there but there should be a government of national unity.

Thank you.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Very good. Thank you.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Tutamwita Laban Rotich, Laban Rotich na atafuatiliwa na Raphael K, sijui ni Katia ama Kadia. Halafu

nyumae aje Job Seng’enge.

Laban Rotich: Thank you commissioners. I think people have exhausted what we were supposed to say but what I could

add is concerning the Members of Parliament.

Laban Rotich are my names. We want to give them probation period of two years may be so that they can be able to be

recalled.

Another issue is concerning religion, churches, they are so many; I don’t know which panel they use to create these churches.

A panel should be created in the Attorney General’s so that they can interview these people who wants to start their churches.

Thank you very much.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you. Laban, jiandikishe hapa. Next.

Raphael Katiya: My names are Raphael Katiya. Thank you very much to have visitors to this area of North Baringo. My

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proposals are as follows:

1. We want the cnstitution to deal with education. Education in our area is very important. Most of the people are not

able to be pay fees. So what we want is free education for all to up to secondary level.

2. Civil servants who are heading big offices should always declare their wealth. There are so many people who have a lot

of wealth and so we want them to declare how they acquired their wealth.

3. Land Act: We want to review land act and we want everybody to have land (most of us do not have land) We want

the white highlands to be distributed equally.

4. Kuna swali?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much, jiandikishe huko tafadhali. Tutamuita – amefika tayari) jina tafadhali utaje.

Job Senyenge: Asante sana commissioner. Jina langu ni Job Senyenge. I’m a councillor. Na commissioner ninaomba radhi

kwa sababu jana niliahidi nitakuletea ile memorandum yangu na hivi nakubalia uende kama nitachelewa ingine, uenda unikubalie

nisema mawili ama machache ingawa mtaniongezea dakika mbili.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Itakua moja kwanza.

Job Senyenge: Asante sana. Katika Kenya wanacommissioners ama commissioners watu wa form 4s ama watu wa

madegree, mahali popote nimechunguza mulipotembelea, ikienda kwa mambo ya councillors kila moja anasema councillor form

4. Natukiona Bwana commissioner, Kenya inasimamiwa na Kenya elders. Kenya elders nikisema ni kama umri wa

commissioner mheshimiwa Asiyo. Na ni hawa ni muundo ama ni msisi wa Kenya kwa sababu tuko nje kama Turkana, Masaai,

kijana alisomea Nairobi hajui nyumbani anaposikia councillor yuko, yeye hafiki kwa bunge, anaeda kuongoza councillor.

Anaondoa mzee kama yule (wapi mzee huyo? Yule mzee wa mwisho, yule Senyan ambaye ni kiongozi wetu, hebu simama

mzee) mzee kama huyu, ukisikia North Baringo anasimama, (tuko na wazee kama hawa karibu kumi na kitu) sasa watu kama

hawa wangeingia kwa sheria ya Kenya wawe council of elders. Kwa hivyo mimi nipendelea council of elders iundwe katika

Kenya. Na mimi nataka kwa sababu council inazungumza Kiswahili, iwe ni mtu anaelewa Kiswahili na anaheshimiwa na watu

wake.

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Wanacommissioners? Tukiona mahali kama Marakwet, mahali kama Turkana, mahali kama Pokot, hii shida ya ng’ombe

mnavyosikia, inachochewa na macouncillors. Inachochewa na wale wengine wanataka kuondoa mbunge. Anaambia watu

make hivi na hivi, serikali inaanza kutoa mamillion kupeleka pale. Na ni mtu mmoja tu – kijana mmoja anachochea. Mwisho

mnaposikia wazee mkutano ya pande yote mbili, anakaliza wazee, akisha sikia vijana 25 wakutana although inajulikana wazi ni

hawa wanachochea. Kwa hivyo mimi nataka council mnavyoende kuketi chini katika Nairobi, complement yale mmesikia

katika Kenya, councillor awe ni yule mtu ambaye ameaminiwa na anasikia Kiswahili na anaheshimiwa.

Jambo la pili, mnasikia relief saa yote ng’abo relief, President omba relief. Tungetafuta njia ingine ya kumaliza mambo ya relief.

Tunaona mahali kama Nyanza, kila mwaka maji inapatia watu matatizo pale. Inafunika watu. Kenya ingeendelea kuomba

msaada kama Israel ama nchi ingine n maji iko Lake Victoria na inaweza kuingizwa katika sehemu zile kavu kama Baringo,

Saburu, Pokot, tunaweza hii wizi baada ya kupata kimaendeleo. Ndio mimi ninataka irrigation ianzizwe katika Kenya – kila

mahali. Sehemu zingine kama Ukambani, ndio tufukuze hii mambo ya relief.

Jambo lingine, tunapokuja kataka Kenya, DDC Baringo umepitisha pesa gapi? Projects, Nyanza, Ukambani, Kikuyuni, kila

mwaka ikikalibia mwezi wa sita ati ile mwezi budget inasomwa, zile pesa zote hazikutumika, inaenda kwa mifuko ya

Wakumbwa. Kila wakati tunalalamikiwa na watu wa ng’ambo wale wanatupa musaada wanasema sisi ni wezi, Tungekubalia

DDC ambaye ni empty project ya Kabartonjo ya water. Hakuna watu wamekunywa maji hapo na tayari imepitishwa pesa ya

ke imepeanwa na haifiki kwa project. Tulikubaliana niongeze, pole pole.

Kitu kingine, msichana nipozungumzia Mrs Asiyo, hebu nikuje kwa macho ine Bwana mkubwa yule alitusimamia jana,

amesomesha msichana yake, ameenda America, anaporudi kufanya kazi Nairobi anakuta kijana anakunywa pombe na

hatakikani kukunywa pombe na hatakikani akunywe pombe, ako na degree, unasikia ameoa huko, haifiki kwa wazazi. Baba

ya yule msichana anagoja apatiwe msaada ama ni haki kwa vile alimsomesha. Wengine ni wakora wanakuja wanasema, “wee

Mzee wacha”. Sheria inasema kama ushaoa msichana ushaoa hata kama ako na degree umeoa, ameenda. Sasa yule mzazi na

hata nyumba yake inabomoka, kwa sababu tena ameenda kwa taabu huko anapotea. Kama aliolewa Mombasa kwa

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mheshimiwa commissioner kijana huyu, na msichana ni mkalejini anaenda anaonewa anaonewa, ulitoka wapi, ulitoka mbala,

unaonewa, unaweza kutobolewa hata macho. Msichana vile vile kutoka kwa meru akiolewa hapa Baringo, anaweza kuolewa

na mtu mlevi ama ni mtu fulani kama mimi, hujui kama niko na elimu category gani, nimeoa msichana, si mi ni bwana? Mtafanya

nini? Nashorota sheria ya mtoto ya mwenyewe ingawa hata Mungu hakubali. Waheshimiwas, Wanacommissioners, mutuundie

sheria ya kuchunga watu kama hawa ndio mwenye aliyemzaa msichana afaidike.

Kitu kingine msichana wacommissioner, macho ine huyu kijana, bwana anasema wewe ni kijana saa hii lakini katili. Msichana

wako anasoma hapa kabartonjo, kijana yangu anadanganya hapa hivi hivi, labda alikosa school fees, unasikia amepata mimba,

alikuwa form 4, wewe huko unasema, “Ah si amepata Mtugeni, Mkalejini, iko nini, na mimi siwezi kubali kijana aingie kwa

mboma yangu, nakomboa nyumba hapa anatangatanga, na wewe umepotesha pesa mingi. Sheria iundwe ya kuchunga

wasichana wetu wasiolewe hovyo hovyo na isitumiwe hovyo hovyo.

Ingine ni ya kwamba, mnapotwambia katika Kenya ni mbunge. Mbunge tunaamini aende akaunde sheria ama apitishe yale

tumepitisha kwa bunge inakuwa sheria. Wabunge sisemi mbunge hapa maana nikisema mbunge mtu atasema ametaja mbunge

wetu, hapana, bunge yote, tunajua Kenya tuko na wabunge mia mbili na kitu. Mbunge kwenda huko alikuwa anakula elfu mia

moja ishirini na marupurupu. Kuingia huko tunasikia mshahara yake ni elfu mia sita, elfu mia saba. Na sisi hapa watoto

wanaomba ile kitu inaitwa bursery. Watoto wa masikini wakiomba bursery, hakuna mtu anakibisha bursery mpaka Nairobi,

councillor anakula hii pesa rupurupu kidogo kidogo, inaishia Naivasha, na ako na karatasi ine za wale watu ambao wanaomba

bursery. Yule mbunge anakula bursery yote anamalizia Nairobi naye huyu councillor hafiki Nairobi, na hata akifika Nairobi

anapata lodging ni kutoka mia mbili mia tano, hana kitu. Kwa hivyo tuundie sheria ambayo inaweza leta hiyo bursery isimamiwe

na village elders ama kamati fulani katika division ama district. Ikiwa chairman ni chief ama sub chief ama DO kwa division

hiyo, itaenda vizuri.

Kitu ingine ningeomba ni katika Kenya mnatuambia leo niko, mnatuambia tumeomba msaada ng’ambo ya projects ………..,

Baringo million tana inaweza kuingia, nikisema Baringo sina __________. Baringo inaweza kuingia million tana na inaishia

kwenye hawa watu wenye matumbo hapa watano. Na mtu anapelekea bibi yake anaweka kwa mattress halafu anatoa moja

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moja anatisha nayo watu wengine. Kama alikuwa anang’ang’ana shamba na mwingine, anaenda anatafuta lawyer. Si wewe

unapotea, unalala nje. Mimi na tena Kenya inasema imesolotika kwa sababu gani na pesa ilikuja? Mimi ningependelea kuwe

na marekebisho kwa hizo pesa. Maana anayeuza matunda Kabartonjo apatiwe elfu tano, kama inawezekana apatiwe elfu

kumi, mwingine huko na huko ndio wawezeshe kusaliza hiyo pesa kwa sababu hiyo pesa itaingia kwa city council itaweza

kuingia kwa serikali maana inaingia kwa kulipa _____. Na tena utajiri kidogo kidogo unaanza kulekebishwa lakini hizo pesa

zetu za Kenya zimeishia kwa watu wawili hiyo ndio madhala.

Kitu kingine,

Interjection

Com. Abubakar Zein: Ya mwisho mzee wangu

Senyenge: Kitu kingie commissioner

Com. Abubakar Zein: Ya mwisho mzee wangu

Senyenge: Asante sana. Kitu kingine ya mwisho ninamaliza tu kwa sababu bando ninatuma hiyo memorandum yangu.

Kitu kingine ya mwisho ni ya kwamba mimi ninapoona katika watoto wa shule, mashule hizi tuko nayo – shule za Primary

nimetembelea sehemu zingine, shule kama Kabartojo primary iko na secondary katika sehemu zingine. Tungekumbaliwa

muongezwe muda wa kuunda sheria na msaidie upande wa education maprimaries zote katika Kenya waweze kufungua

masecondary schools. Tusigojee kusema ati hamjamaliza kutengeneza hii sheria, na hii, na mashule hii kubwa kubwa kama

Kapropita na mashule zingine kama Mang’u ziwe National watoto wetu wachanganyike kwa sababu tumeona hiyo mashule

zinasomewa na kabila moja, watoto hawawezi kuwa na akiri. Na hiyo mambo ya 80% iendelee. Asante sana commissioner.

Sina mengi.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Asante sana mzee asante sana. Tafadhali ukimaliza kuandika memorandum, iwe kabla ya mwisho wa

mwezi huu kwa sababu ikifika mwisho wa mwezi huu nafikiri tutafunga kupokea memorandum, tutakua tumemaliza mkoa wa

magharibi mkoa wa mwisho. Tutakuwa tumeanza kuandika report. Kwa hivyo utume kabla ya mwisho wa mwezi huu lakini

kwa sasa jiandikishe pale jina tafadhali.

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Senyenge: Asante sana, nitakibisha hii memorandum yangu.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Sasa, kwa niaba ya Mwenyekiti ningependa kumuomba Bwana Samson Chemoitich, Samson, Kama

Samson hayuko karibu, kiasi anaitwa Job Chesaro. Mwanasiasa Karibu bwana. (laughter) karibu sana, tulikuwa na yeye jana

huko akinionyesha hizi mipaka ilivyo kati ya hapa na Baringo.

Job Chesano: Asante Bwana commissioner. Langu ni mengi lakini kwa sababu ya dakika tano haiwezi kuniruhusu nisome

zote lakini ningeomba tu nitaje kuhusu ardhi. Ardhi ya nchi hii haikuangaliwa vizuri katika Katiba ilie iko saa huu. Sasa

ningeomba commissioners Katiba hii inaingia sasa ionekane vizuri kama hii sehemu ya forest. Hii sehemu ya forest ilikuwa

shamba za wenyewe na wazungu walivyo fukuza hawa, wenye shamba hili hawakupewa compensation. Sasa Katiba hii

inatakikana ionekane wazi wazi ya kwamba hawa watu wenye walifukuzwa haki yao iko pande gani.

Katiba ya pili tunataka kuonekana katika madini ile iko nchi hii wenye sehemu hiyo wafaindike na hii jambo la 75% iwe

mwenye alikuwa na own hiyo land. Kwa sababu tunaona hata sehemu za nyada za chini zile zinaonekana mahali ya mafuta,

_______ aina bali, bali. Kitabo ile ikipatikana _________ mambo mengi dani ya hiyo ardhi, hakuna mtu, county council

wanakimbia straight wanasema hapa ni sehemu ya serikali. Kwa nini Katiba isionekane wazi wazi ya kwamba mwenye ardhi

hiyo afaidike kwa sababu hata Mungu naye amempatia hiyo mamlaka iwe yake.

Kwa kukamiliza kwa sababu hii ni sehemu mrefu sana, ningeonelea kwa memorandum yangu ya kwamba, kama sisi wakenya

tuangalie kuhusu vijana wetu kutoka watoto kutoka ….

Upande wa elimu: Elimu ionekane wazi wazi ya kwamba iwekwe sehemu ya kusomeshwa kutoka pre-school mpaka class 8 at

least iwe free education na pia hata form fours. Iangaliwe sana sana kwa sababu eonomy ya nchi inaongozwa na elimu. Kwa

sababu sehemu ambayo haina elimu haina nguvu. Bwana commissioner, finally kwa sehemu ya memorandum yangu mimi

ningeonelea ya kwamba hii mambo inaitwa ya majimbo. Selikali hii iwe serikali ya majimbo. Federal government. Na hii

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majimbo inamaanisha kila mtu atatabulika mahali atapokuwa ko. Ninaweza kuwapatia memorandum wanacommissioners, sina

mengi kwa sababu nikisema yote itachukua muda na mi nasema asante Kwa si kusema jina saa ile, jina langu ni Job Chesaro

naakirisha network ya _____ Association, Po.Box 729 Kabartonjo Thank you very much.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Bwana Chesaro, jiandikishe huko tena. Kuna mama ambaye angelitaka kuzungumza,

kuna mzee alikuwa na mzee alikuwa ametajwa? Samson basi endelea hapo.

SamsonChemwetich: Ane kegurenon Samson Chemwetich.

Translator: Mimi ninaitwa Samson Chemoitich.

SamsonChemoitich: Ko anyun tuguk che amache ateb ko ng’alek somok.

Translator: Mambo ambayo ninataka kuuliza ni mambo matatu.

SamsonChemoitich: Che bo tai ko somanet.

Translator: Jambo la kwanza ni elimu,

SamsonChemoitich: Togu somanet ko woin sait age.

Translator: Naonavyo masomo huenda wakati mwingine hapa unaonekana hauendelei vizuri.

SamsonChemoitich: Amun mito somanet ne somani chito ago kiruchi kwandanyi timdo anan ko kikoalda tuguk

chemi kaita kobek ak ye kaiyakonam somanet ko kwo timin koam ak korket en olio.

Translator: Kuna elimu ambayo mtu hupata baada ya mzazi yake kupambana kabisa juu chini baada ya yeye kuelimika na

kupata mapato, anapotea.

SamsonChemoitich: Koyaga anyun korshe chon koyam tutu ak koam keser

Translator: Na yule mzazi anapata kuwa na giggers pamoja hata na chawa.

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SamsonChemoitich: agot kwiyo ko matyeche, tyeche ng’wony ako kisoman lakwenyin.

Translator: Hata viatu hana anakanyanga ardhi bure na mtoto yake amesoma.

SamsonChemoitich: Ko agenge noo.

Translator: Hiyo ndio jambo la kwanza.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Proposal, proposal, Pendekeza ni nini hapo. Ungelipenda tufanye aje?

SamsonChemoitich: Ko non ko amache anyun ketoben kele yon kele ara ngo tesu banan somanet.

Translator: Hiyo anasema inaonekana hata elimu huenda unachangia kwa upande mwingine umasikini.

SamsonChemoitich: Amache keng’at ng’atutiet ne kimoche chin ne kisoman kwan agot agine kayaton che bo kasit

ne kiyai. Chi ne kisoman ko mechei koam sigik agot agichek chebo kasit ne kiai kosomesani bichu.

Translator: Kwa elimu mtu akishaelemishwa vizuri na wazazi wake anapatwa kuwapa wazazi sehem ili hata na wao wapate

kufurahia matunda ya elimu ya mtoto huyo.

SamsonChemoitich: Amun ki bitetab tugun en achek ko cham keenye tuga anan ko nego ko mite banyek ab boonde,

kelenen banyekab boonde chu.

Translator: Katika mila yatu ya tugeni, wakati ng’ombe anachijwa, kuna sehemu ya nyama ya mzee ambayo lazima mzee

apate.

SamsonChemoitich: Ko u non chebo Chepyoset, tinye kora chepyoset che chik, chebo chebo chepyosoi. Amache

anyun konyor bichon banyekwak chebo mushahara, kimoche konyoru mushahara agot inye chebo kasarta nyin.

Translator: Hata hivyo hivyo hata kwa mama kuna sehemu za nyama ya ngombe ya mama kwa sababu inasemwa hivo. Basi

kama hivyo, tunataka mama na baba wapate sehemu yao ya nyama yaani kwa elimu mapato ya mtoto wao.

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SamsonChemoitich: Nebo aeng’ anyun ko ni, mi ng’olyon age ne aroti, mi makosa che yaei alak kerat

Translator: Jambo la pili ni hili, Kuna makosa watu wengine wakifanya wanawekwa korokoroni.

SamsonChemoitich: Korok kenam kebokeratchi district age ne mo emenyin.

Translator: Na wanawenda kuwekwa korokoroni kwa district ingine ambayo si kwao.

SamsonChemoitich: Ko makararan iman, moche keng’alalen kio, amune si komokirotyi bik district ne ng’wai?

Translator: Naonavyo si jambo jema kwa sababu gani hao wasiwekwe kwa jera kwa district yao.

SamsonChemoitich: Motinye ole kirotyin anan motinye tuguk che kiyoi?

Translator: Kwa hiyo district hawana mahali pa kuwekwa kwa jera au hakun akazi ya kufanya katika district hiyo.

SamsonChemoitich: amache ye kirat bik kerotchi district ne ng’wai.

Translator: Watu wakifungwa wakishafanya makosa wafungwe kwa district yao.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Umemaliza?

SamsonChemoitich: Oret age ko nebo kumik.

Translator: Jambo lingine ni pombe,

SamsonChemoitich: Emoninyon ko komen kitor gie ng’o.

Translator: Kwa inchi hii yetu, pombe ilikuwa na kazi fulani.

SamsonChemoitich: Ko kibo maana, kibo tumwotin.

Translator: Pombe ilikuwa inatumika kwa wakati wa serehe za utamaduni.

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SamsonChemoitich: Ko kibo tumwotin ago kimakichamchin chepyosok che tagomengechen ak murenik che

mengechen.

Translator: Kwa sababu katika kitamaduni, haikuwa inaruhusiwa akina mama ambao ni wachanga na watoto wanyue

pombe.

SamsonChemoitich: Amun bichon kokirkyini bik, che ribe lagok chepyosok ko murenchu ko ribe emet en bunik anan

ko tyong’ik.

Translator: Kwa sababu wakina mama ni wachungaji wa watoto na wanume ndio wanalinda nchi.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Can you please encourage him to give us proposals inrespect of those issues which he think are

problems so that we can give somebody else an opportunity.

SamsonChemoitich: Ko raini anyun ko kokomelmoo komechon kikuren tugul bo boisioi ko kiyakitun en bik che

mengechen. Kora anyun ko amache keyai kele en bichon bo che kisomesoneko mwisho konyor kebebertanyin. Wektoi

komen emoni kowo let.Kolyan makibir marufuku bichon yachen?

Translator: Kwa sababu pombe basi imeenda kuharibu watu katika nchi, constitution ipige marufuku unywaji wa pombe.

SamsonChemoitich: Hasa chu yachen chu bo kartasi ko chekatar agot lagok cheb sugul.

Translator: Hata zaidi hizi ziko kwa karatasi zimemaharibu watoto wa shule

SamsonChemoitich: Ko amune si kochamchin serkali bichon licence bichon?

Translator: Asema, Bona serikali inapeana licence kwa hao ambao wanatumia vitu kama vivyo kuharibu watu wetu?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ambia mzee, tumesikia mzee kwamba unataka kwamba pombe ipigwe marufuku. Tumeandika tayari.

SamsonChemoitich: Mamiten ng’olyon age, nga’lekyuk chon.

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Translator: Hakuna jambo lingine ni hayo tu.

Com . P. M. Wambua: Sawa.

Asante sana, jiandikishe huko tafadhali. Nasikia kuna mzee mwingine hapa ambae ako umri. Ako wapi? Anaitwa Musa

Samukwo. Na kweli ni mzee. Tumekupa nafasi hiyo mzee lakini maneno yafupishwe ndio tumwite mwingine. Na kuna mama

mwingine hapa ambaye tutamwita baada ya mzee kuzungumza, Lina Chesoni Mrs. Yuko? Tutakupa na nafasi mama baada ya

mzee Samukwo kuzungumza halafu atafuatiliwa na Peter Kiboweni. Akae chojo. Keti mzee kama unataka. Wacha

unasimama vile unataka au unakaa chini.

Samson Samukwo: Bwana mwenyekiti Bwana commissioner, nakuomba uchunge saa kwa sababu mimi kweli sikusoma

vizuri. Nasoma kidogo tu lakini mimi naona watu wanaingiza hapa maendeleo sijui hii sasa ni kuweka sheria au ni maendeleo?

Hapo ndio mimi naona wengine wanaingiza maendeleo lakini mimi nafikiri kwa maoni yangu nikutunga sheria. Basi

wanacommissioner, nyinyi wote wazee na wamama hamjambo? Bona mnanyamaza? Hamjui jambo ni ya Mungu.

Basi Bwana Commissioner, maoni yangu: mimi nataka hii siku, hii miaka imewekwa kwa sheria ya kwamba Rais anakaa miaka

tano na kama anaongeza ni miaka ingine tano halafu inatosha. Mimi nataka ifunjwe kwa sababu tunaweza kutupa mtu wa

maana sana. Unaona wakati wa Kenyatta, Kenyatta alishika nchi hii Miaka kumi na tana, pengine kama ingekuwa miaka tano,

miaka tano, pengine mwingine angetuangusha sisi. Sasa tukipata mtu wa maana, bora kura tu inaamua. Sasa mimi nataka

ifunjwe.

Ya pili, mambo ya majimbo: mimi nataka sherikali ya majimbo kwa sababu kuna majimbo ingine inafurugafuruga watu na kuna

majimbo ingine watu wanakulia. Kwa hivyo serikali ya majimbo mimi naona ni mzuri lakini si kutenga watu. Kama watu wako

sasa majimbo kama Rift Valley, kama kabila yote iko Rift Valley, naheshimu na mali yake, hakuna kusema ati inafukuza, bora

yeye anaimba nyimbo ya hiyo province. Sio mtu kukaa na mali yake.

Ya tatu, mimi nataka serikali iheshimu mtu na mali yake. Kama inatakiwa shamba fulani au kitu fulani, isiulize mtu kwa nguvu na

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kama mtu anataka kitu fulani anapatiwa kitu fulani. Si kuchukua bure.

Ya nne, mimi nataka sheria ipitishwe kimila, hata sasa vile nazungumza sasa. Mimi nataka Katiba ya Muafrica, sitaki Katiba ya

mzungu. Mimi nataka mtu akiwa na bibi wake wawili, au watatu, afunge ndoa yote, kwa sababu ikifungwa ndoa moja na wale

wengine wanakaa tu bure, wakati yule mtu anaenda, hao wengine wanaweza kunyanyashwa.

Ingine ya tano, kwa mila yetu watoto ni wa mwanaume sio wa mwanamke. Hata ukiona kwa Bibilia jina ya watoto ni ya

mwanaume. Kwa hivyo watoto ni wa mwanaume.

Mimi nakuja tena kwa upande ya hii mambo mnasema usawa. Kweli elimu ya msichana na mvulana ni sawa. Kazi ni sawa,

lakini usawa ya uongozi, siwezi kukubaliana ati mwanaume na mwanamke ni sawa. Mimi nakataa kwa sababu mila yetu, kufika

jioni, mwanamke anatandika kitanda sio mwanaume anatandika kitanda na mwanaume haendi jikoni. Wacha hii maneno ya

wazungu. Sisi kweli ata kama tukiishi kama bibi ni P.C. jioni anatandika kitanda na anaenda jikoni. Wanaume apana enda

jikoni.

Mimi nasema nakuja tena kwa kijana na msichana. Kijana kwa sisi mila yetu, huwezi kugawanyia shamba kijana na

kugawanyia shamba hata msichana, halafu kijana anazaa halafu msichana anazaa. Sisi kwa mila yetu tunasema hapana. Hawa

watoto wa msichana ni hata damu sasa itapotea kwa sababu huyu msichana analeta damu ya kila mahali halafu na haleti

shamba. Sasa huyu kijana kwa shamba, hiyo mbegu yake itakuja kunyanyashwa na hawa. Kwa hivyo mimi nakataa lakini kwa

kupatia msichana yangu ng’ombe, kwa kupatia pesa, ama kitu fulani aende asikae nyumbani. Hiyo ni mila yetu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Imemalizika? Umemaliza mzee? Eh.

Samson Samukwo: Sasa, nimemaliza.

Com. P.M. wambua: Asante sana kwa maoni yako hayo mema, tafadhali jiandikishe hapo halafu …. Mama Lina, tafadhali

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taja jina na utupatie maoni yako.

Lina Chebun: Kwa majina mimi ni Mrs. Lina Kibuni. I have come here to present personal feedlings or observations.

Nimeonelea ya kwamba watoto ni wa kila mtu, thus says the parents. The parents are responsible for any child’s welfare but

today we find that most of the responsibilities are left to the mothers. So there should be a constitution that whoever will not

have taken the responsibility, if you are a man or the father, then steps should be taken.

Another thing is that you find that in the constitution, the MPs in parliament are the ones who discuss on what they are supposed

to get. That should be left to a body. A body should be set so that they discuss on any other _____ use because if that is to be

allowed, then every working sector should be given that right to discuss on their own salaries. So a body should be set to

discuss the salaries of the MPs. I also feel that the councillors who are very much near to the people are given too little and yet

they are the ones who work more than the MPs. You find that an MP goes even for 2 years without knowing what is going on

in his constituency. So it should be backed that as people have said, they should stay for at least may be 2 (I’m talking of the

MPs now) they should be visiting their people regularly. They should not be given even two years. They should go for an

allowance of one year and if they don’t come back to the people, then the people are empowered to recall him and may be

pass a vote of no confidence. Also an MP who moves from one party to the other should seek the mandate from his people

that is from those people who voted for him. So a constitution should be set so that nobody should be shifting from one party

to another.

On nomination, I will say nomination be there but because ladies are people who (may be I turn them as may be cowards) they

don’t like to express their feelings. They should be given the chances when nomination comes if there will be but I feel

nominations should be there and should be looked at on gender issues. Again we know ladies may be looked down by men

when they are contesting, so when they are nominated they are just silenced especially following the culture. We have come

here and I have also very many people talking of the culture and if you look at it, the ladies will shy off that is if they follow the

culture. So when nomination will be allowed, then I wish the ladies could be considered.

I want to go back to the MPs. We find that in our secondary schools there are so many children who are unable to pay school

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fees and the schools suffer so much because of the balances. The MPs in every constituency should be given the responsibility

of those who are unable because of the poor conditions of those areas, they should be given that responsibility so that they just

be going there to check whether there is anybody who is suffering so much because in a school you find a child having may be a

balance of over 100,000/- and the parent has not been able to pay that. You find that the MPs when they go to the parliament

they say that children should not be chased. So I want a constitution to be set so that the MPs are given that responsibility of

this balances in schools so that they give burseries to those schools which they find there are so many children who are unable

to pay fees.

There is also the mandate, because there is this national maendeleo, may be it is not supposed to be there in the constitution but

I want to add that a constitution be set so that those who elected ladies who have been elected on the line of maendeleo should

also be coming back. They are almost like the MPs, so they should be coming back to the people who voted them in to hear

their views and also their feelings and may be to look at their welfare also because there may be a ______ or even … let me

have a project which was started by the ladies but you find that the top ladies are the ones who are benefiting leaving those ones

on the crowd. Up to there that is.

Com. P. M. Wambua: You have finished? Okay, thank you very much Lina. Please register yourself there. Ningelipenda

kumtambua Bwana Ezekiel Komen ambaye alikuwa hapo awali Managing Director Kenya Pipeline. Bwana Komen ukiwa

tayari utujulishe tutakupatia na nafasi ya kutoa maoni yako. Kwa hivyo kwanza pengine uwasikize wananchi kidogo. Utataja

jina Bwana Komen, inaswe kwa machine halafu utupatie maoni kwa kifupi.

Ezekiel Komen: Asante sana Mheshimiwa, commissioners ambao wako hapa, hata mwenyekiti ako hapa wakati huu na

viongozi wote Bwana DO na viongozi wa talaka bali bali. Mimi Bwana Mwenyekiti naitwa Ezekiel Komen, natoka sehemu hii,

huku nyumbani naitwa Lokoloti Bosi na mimi ni mzaliwa wa hii location Kerio, constituency ya North Baringo. Kweli

umesema na ni juzi nimestaff kwa kazi baada ya kutimisa ile miaka inatakiwa na ninashukuru Mungu sana kwa kunifikisha hapo

na kushukuru pia sherikali for providing and enabling environment kutoka wakati nilianza shule mpaka wakati huo wote nilifanya

kazi, na kushukuru tena mtukufu Rais maana katika kazi ya maofisi ya mwisho ambao nilitimisha kwa miaka karibu nane, ni kwa

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ajiri ya appointment yake.

Basi bila kupoteza wakati kwa sababu nafasi ni ya watu wote, naenda kwa kuwasalimia wananchi wote, hamjambo? Asante

sana. Hii ni kikao cha heshima sana na hii ni sababu nimetoka Nairobi Bwana Mwenyekiti kwa kuheshimu kazi yenu.

Kwanza nilipojitabulisha nilisema mahali natoka na kwa ratiba hiyo, ningependelea pengine sitasema kwa Kingereza zaidi kwa

sababu nikisema pengine maana ninatoa maoni ambayo inawakilisha maoni ya hao watu na ningetaka pia wawe informed wajue

ninasema nini. Ningependelea Bwana Mwenyekiti hiyo Katiba ya Political ama boundaries ya kawaida kutoka sublocation,

location, district, mkoa, na sisi kwa Kenya iheshimiwe. Isiwekwe na wakati wowote wa kusema nchi imekuwa free hakuna

boundaries. Na ili sisi tujue ya kwamba tunatoka sehemu fulani na tukiheshimu hiyo mpaka juu kule tukiwa watu wa Kenya na

inaenda kama East Africa na African na ulimwengu ambao sisi ni jamii moja. Napenda hiyo ifuatiwe. Na kwa hali ya

kugawanya sehemu hizo iendelee Bwana Mwenyekiti kulingana na diversity, kulingana na population, kulingana na watu, watu

wakiongezeka, location ya Kerio igawanywe, District igawanywe kulingana ili ipatane na mahitaji ya wananchi ili pia serikali iwe

karibu na watu. Hiyo iwe dynamic, iwe ikiendelea, isikome iendelee mpaka maana tuna watu na kuzaliwa kwa watu, mambo

ya family planning iko lakini sikusema watu wasiendelee kuzaa. Sisi tunaamini watu lazima wazae wajaze dunia maana hili ni

Mungu alitupa, kwa hivyo watu wanapoongezeka igawanywe, igawanye, bora tu watu wanapanga kulingana na uwezo wao.

Jambo lingine Bwana Mwenyekiti ni uongozi. Katika hali ya uongozi, uongozi ianzwe katika village; kuwe na elders ambao

wanachaguliwa na assistant chief wa sublocation, location chief awe na location na team yake pia. Sublocational team ya

wazee, ya elders, si wazee peke yao, representatives ya wazee, youth, na watu wa kanisa, na watu wa taraka bali bali ili

watatue maneno ambayo inakuja. Kwa nyumbani na kuelekea huko mbele ili kesi isipelekwe tu kortini kila wakati, kufunga

watu maana watu wanatumia hali ya kisirani tu kupeleka hata mtu ambaye anajua. Nikipeleka nakufanya maneuvering mtu

anafungwa bure kwa sababu ya uwezo ya…. Lakini waze wanajua hii inakaa namna hii, desturi ni hii, na wanafunga, iko

maneno ya kufunga watu. Iko njia yetu ya kufunga na mtu akifungwa na wazee ama elders hiyo ni kali kuliko hata ile ya kortini

maana unakuwa identified right from home na utajulikana. Pahali halitasikia iendelee kwa viongozi iwekwe chief, iwekwe

assistant chief, iwekwe DO, mpaka DC, mpaka huko juu, PC. Hatuwezi kukaa, watu wetu wamezoea hiyo, wamezoea hiyo

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routine ya kuwa na viongozi wa kutawala watu. Maana ukiambiwa tutapeleka wewe kwa chief, mtu anaanza kusilahi didogo,

ananza kuogopa na watu wanaanza kutunza sherias. Lakini kama hakuna chief, hakuna DO, hakuna DC, dunia itakuwa mbaya.

Kwa hivyo hali ya utawala iwekwe. Right up to home. Ni kama hata kwa mama, kwa boma, mzee wa mboma ni mzee wa

mboma, mama ni mama wa mboma. Wakati mzee hayuko, mama ndiye anaongoza mambo yote na kadhalika. Kwa hivyo hiyo

uongozi iwekwe na hiyo mimi naung mkono kabisa.

Jambo lingine ni hali ya kuchagua hawa watu, hawa viongozi. Viongozi wa location, sublocation, mimi nataka irudiwe ile ratiba

ya zamani ya mlolongo kusema huyu ni kiongozi wetu. Assistant chief ni hiyo tu. Mambo ya DO na DC hiyo serikali iangalie ni

sawa lakini ile local ni very effective, ichaguliwe na wananchi. Line mrefu, kama hakuna line, basi unarudi nyumbani hapana

kuwa chief, utakuwa chief wa nani na we hauna mtu ambaye anakuamini maana watu wetu wanajua ni nani anaweza kuongoza

vizuri. Wanajua kulingana na tabia yake. Wanajua tena kulingana na ukuu, watu wa fulani fulani wamekuwa wakituza inchi,

watu fulani wakichuna inchi, inchi inabalikiwa. Kuna watu wengine, s(isemi walioko ama nini,) lakini wakiongoza inchi inakuwa

na mafurugano. Kwa hivyo those ones should give way, its not allowed, waforce watu na kudictate, hapana. Kuna hii vitu

inaenda na baraka ya watu. Hiyo uongozi tena ipewe hata akina mama. These days hata akina mama wamekuwa educated,

kwa hivyo, hata kama ni assistant chief, crown mama anapewa kama anauwezo. Bora tu aende kwa line na wazee wabadirishe

ile mwenendo ya kusema “mimi apana enda kusimama nyuma ya mama”. Lazima kama yeye anaongoza na ichi imbalikiwe,

basi, unataka nini ingine? Na hivyo hiyo mpaka location iwe viongozi kama hiyo. Hii utawala tena Bwana Mwenyekiti

ningetaka kutanja ya kwamba, utawala ya inchi pia iende kulingana na uchaguzi. Location sawa, na kila location iwe na

uchaguzi, kila location iwe na councillor na wawe councillors wenye kuform ile council ya district. Wenye kuchunga rasimali ya

nchi, boundaries ya nchi. Kuchunga pia forests, hii forests Mr. Chairman maoni yangu sikupeana kwa central government, ni

kutoa kupeana kwa wananchi ili watu wa Kerio wanajua forest yao ni hii, wanachunga kwa maslahi yao. Kwa ajiri yao

wanajua na central government kazi yake ni ile technical provision, ile ya kusema tupande miti namna hii namna hii lakini utunzaji

hata ukisema nataka kukata sehemu fulani iwe kwa shule, iwe na mahitaji ya wananchi, wawe wanachunga, wawe na county

council, wawe na uwezo, wachunge forest yao, maana hii forest ilikuwako tangu zamani. Miti wazee wanajua ni miti gani

inachunga nchi na nini. Na hiyo utawala nikienda juu tena Bwana Mwenyekiti, constituency iwe na mjumbe ambaye

anachaguliwa na watu.

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Kuchaguliwa iwe uhuru na huyo mjumbe aende kwa miaka tano hiyo – kutoka huko tuwe na President ambaye tunachagua sisi

kwote pamoja. President awe kwa miaka tano ili ya kusema after two terms ya President Bwana Chairman, mimi napinga hii

kwa sababu uongozi, huwezi kutoa watu kama hivi hivi, huna store ya kuweka viongozi kusema mi nawakili wakitoka 5 years,

two terms naenda kutoa huyu. Kama President Moi tungewacha bado ya term mbili, hii Kenya haingekuwa vile iko. Sisi

wengine tulisomea wakati wake, tumefanya kazi wakati yake, mpaka sasa tumeenda retire wakati yake. Tunataka watoto wetu

pia wafanye kazi peaceful environment na grand children pia. Kwa hivyo mimi napendelea, kulingana na uwezo ya mtu, na awe

achaguliwe kulingana na uwezo wake, akionekana hawezi, basi wananchi wana-vote yeye out, hiyo inatosha. Na hii system ya

wakati huu iongezwe, iwe na Prime Minister, President awe na Vice wake, ambaye anatoka kila mkoa. Kila mkoa uwe na

vice president, ili kutawala iwe kamili, balanced. Na prime minister awe na executive powers ili nchi ipate kuongozwa.

Na nikirudi tena kwa hali ya culture, nikisema ili nimalize, culture values ndio imechunga sisi mpaka wakati huu. Wakati huu

tunaona imeanza kupotea kwa sababu watu wameanza kusema sisi tukae vile tunapenda. Apana, culture iwe culture, rika iwe

na heshima ya rika ingine, tuko na rika, tukifika mahali fulani, watoto hutahiriwa, vijana apana wasichana. Wasichana

wanakumbaliana na mtido wa sasa ya kwamba wasichana wa kae. Wavulana watahiriwe lakini si kila mtu atahirishe mtoto

wake kwa jikoni na kuweka jikoni. Inatakiwa ile rika ya sub location, wawe wakiangalia, na tosha, angalia nyota ile ya nchi,

kuna dariri fulani fulani. Kuna wakati mwingine huwa ni mbaya, apana tahirisha watoto kama hewa ni mbaya, tahirisha hawa

wakati hewa ni mzuri na hio inatokana na nyota; unaangalia nyota ya nchi, unaangalia nchi kama iko chakula, kama iko nini, na

watahirishwe kulingana na ratiba hiyo – group, na heshima iwekwe. Kijana akishatahiliwa ajue ametahiriwa, amekuwa mtu

mzima, achunge heshima. Na hali ya wasichana wakae, hali ya wasichana kupeanwa, kuolewa ni kawaida. Lakini si kawaida

ya kwamba watakuwa wakiolewa kila wakati. Kwa hivyo kulingana na mimi kama mzazi, ningependa watoto wangu ni watoto

wangu. Kama moja ana kwama, apana olewa, shamba mi nakata kidogo napatia yeye. Hiyo ni shamba yangu, na hao ni

watoto wangu, apana tupa watoto. Na wale wataolewa ni sawasawa lakini kupea hiyo shamba iko right ya wazee kuchunga,

hakuna mtu kwisha kama huyu msichana yangu analeta mtu, basi hiyo shamba iko under the name ya family. Pana iko name ya

huyu foreigner ambaye anakuja kuishi na yeye. Huyu mtu analetwa, lazima akae kulingana na desturi yetu. Akifanywa mambo

baya baya, awe divorced kulingana na sheria. Msichana asiwe divorced kila wakati peke yake, hata mwanaume awe divorced.

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Yule mwanaume ameenda, sio mwanaume ambaye amekaa kwa _____ kama mimi, mimi niko nyumbani, nakuwa divorced

niende wapi? Lakini yule mtu ambaye amekuja kuishi ______ kwa sababu ya msichana yangu na kuchukua shamba yangu

atakuwa divorced akicheza. Kwa hivyo hiyo kulingana na ile desturi yetu, culture iwe maintained. Oa kutoka familia hii, apana

oa kutoka hii, hiyo ni kawaida, apana enda kuoa ovyo ovyo, hawezi enda kuoa msichana ya mhindi ama ya mzungu, ______

hiyo nikusema unakuja kuanza, naye wazee watafanya kitu kidogo kidogo watasema may be kumaanisha ya kwamba pengine

awe posted halafu pengine miaka ingine tutafuata hiyo, I mean tunaenda kwa hiyo kuleta, wazungu tukileta hapana mbaya lakini

oa kulingana na ujamii ile wazee wanasema. Hapana oa kwa hii, hapana oa kwa hii, si vizuri kuoa sisters, si vizuri kuoa kutoka

uncles, nini, hiyo ni kawaida maana watu wanaweza kuharibika kwa kila hali yao ya tabia.

Basi hali ya dini bwana chairman, wawe wawe na freedom ya dini, mtu akae kulingana na vile anapenda, ukiwa Mkristo, kanisa

gani anafuata, aende hiyo na akibaki kama ya nyumbani wazee nafikiri yao wako na tabia yao ya kusema sisi tunakaa

tunachunga, heshima ya Mungu ni mingi, wanaogopa Mungu. Hiyo wakubaliwe.

Hii freedom ya express, its wrong, iwe limited, freedom ya express, ya mtu kuandika maneno chafu kwa mtu, unakuta mtu

anaandika hata anasema fulani kama mimi nikiongea lugha ya kikalejin kwa hapa, mtu mkalejin anaweza kutafusiri kwa mtu

mwingine anaenda anamwambia Komen alisema hii. Hiyo ni uongo.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Bwana Komen malizia malizia, tayari tuko na watu wengi.

Komen: Basi wacha nimalize bwana mwenyekiti, hiyo freedom of expression iwe limited. Also democracy iwe limited, isiwe

kila mtu aseme vile anapenda. Apana, iwe respected to an extent, democracy ya kila watu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kama hujenda Bwana Komen kuna kidogo maswali ningelipenda wewe ufafanue maneno fulani.

Kwanza ulisema ungelipendelea chiefs waendelee kufanya kazi na subchiefs________wawe nazo, lakini sana sana kunatokea

wakati ambao hawa machiefs wana-abuse office ama wanatumia madaraka yao vibaya. Ungependekeza nini ndio tuhakikishe

ya kwamba wakipewa hizo nguvu hawatatumia vibaya?

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Ya pili, ulizungumzia sana mambo ya county council na sikusikia pahali unataja municipal council, ungelipendelea municipal

councils na town councils ziweko ama nini? Kuwe na county council peke yake?

La mwisho ni question ya Terms of the President, ulisema, President kusikuwe na limit ya terms, aendelee tu. Lakini kitu kimoja

tulikuwa tunataka kusikia juu yake ni kama kutakuweko na retirement age ya President. Ni kweli ninaweza kusema terms,

ihesabiwe, lakini kuna age fulani atafika iwe sasa sheria inasema utasimamia hapo, ama iwe open, hata akifikisha miaka mia

moja anaendelea tu?

Komen: Asante sana, naweza kubuko hayo Bwana chairman asante. Ile kwanza ya chiefs, wakiabuse office kuna elders

ambao watareport yeye kwa Provincial Administration. Wenyewe waseme huyu chief amekuwa ineffective na awe reported,

aambiwe, halafu wenyewe wata-sort out how to discipline that chief ama wachague mwingine.

County councils isiweko na municipal councils pia na city councils kulingana na ratifa hiyo.

Ya President: President kulingana na afya yake, kulingana na bado yuko normal, bado yuko na uwezo, unajua mpaka miaka

karibu themanine na tano hivi, mtu ambaye ata katika kikwetu hapa, unaweza kupata wazee wa miaka themanine na tano na

bado akili iko timamu. Asionekane bado mpaka hiyo miaka ya themanine na tano bado yuko na akili timamu anaendelea vizuri

effectively ifike hapo na mtu alitire kwa hapo. Asante. Asante sana Bwana Mwenyekiti.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much Bwana Komen. Peter Kiboen nilikuwa nimetaja jina lake. Taja jina yako na

utupatie maoni.

Peter Kiboen: Jina ni Peter Kiboen. Maoni napeana ni opinion yangu tu.

Kwanza ni mambo ya madini. Ikipatikana katika community fulani hasa kwa hapa Baringo kwa sababu hii nchi yetu, kubwa ni

_______ , mawe, sasa tukipata ni madini, mimi naonelea hiyo industry, It takes a lot of interest on the local people and this

should be changed in the law. That employment kwa wale watu wanatoka hapo lazima wapatiwe priority ili mambo ya general

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development- infrastructure, kama ni barabara, maji, electricity, telephone, na mashule na hospitals hawa watu wasaidiwe. Na

ya mwisho hapo, ikiwezekana local people should be compensated. Wapatiwe mahali pengine pa kuishi mahali pengine, kama

itakuwa madini ya kuchukua land kubwa.

Ya pili ni inheritance, na ni mtu tu amesema hivyo. Kwa sisi ni watu wa Baringo, mali inapeanwa kwa vijana na wasichana

wanaolewa lakini pengine msichana mwingine amezaa nyumbani bila kuolewa. Kwa hivyo mimi naonelea hii iwekwe kwa

sheria, sisemi hivi, huyu msichana amembaki, apatiwe mali kama hawa vijana wako nyumbani, na kulingana na desturi yetu,

hataishi katika hiyo land ya familia. Ata anaweza kununuliwa shamba pahali pengine kwa sababu hawa watoto sio wa hiyo

familia ya msichana.

Kuhusu land also, taking over of a community land na serikali, I will state,I’m proposing that if it is important that the

government has to take that piece of land, and then it has got to come also into terms with the elders and the local leaders, they

must talk and understand each other and see the importance of that land being taken so that there will not be some kind of

________. _________ na mambo kama ya tourism, _____ and so forth. So mimi ningetaka watu wawe satisfied as per law

and they are good according to the executive where possible.

Kuhusu land also, mimi ningeonelea wale wamepata land kubwa katika nchi hii, and its very potential, in production, should be

made to utilize that land and cause proper production all over the land. Failure to do that one I see no reason why that land

should not be taken by the state and given to other people even if it is on your ownership. There must be some kind of

insecurity in the law to do that.

Now I’m coming into the high ranking of the provincial administration right up to the head of state and I will start by saying:

maoni yangu ni haya, mimi ningetaka wale wako kwa hiyo offices, kutoka chief, mpaka provincial headquarters, wawe watu

elected. Nasema hivi kwa sababu katika hii stage yetu tumekuwa na corruption kubwa sana ambayo tunaijua, inajulikana, kwa

dunia yote. Ata saa ingine we are being lugged somewhere among the top, na mimi nafikiri watu wakielectiwa ______ kwa

muda fulani kama miaka tano, then wale wanafanya kazi ya muhimu watajulikana wakati watarepeat tena election. So this is

why I’m saying, we need to have governance, a provincial level and this governance should be electable every five years. Say

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the man who is leading the district – I could have said that admiring that the DC should be elected, those with _______ or

something like that and all the personnel that are within the district will not need the security have got to revert and ______,

judiciary, security, and all departments for that five years. I believe this because I tend to think that this elected person

atakuwa akichunga hiyo miaka yake tano, afanye kazi clean, halafu sasa wale watu watakuwa wakifanya corruption kama vile

tunaonanga tukiingia kwa matatus. Hatakuwa na

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Na Kiboren fupisha maneno maanake tupeane nafasi.

Kiboren: Okay, I think I will will be very quick So that is what I’m recommending. As for the Head of state, I also believe

that they have to be elected for the five years period and at the same time we have to have a limit for the head of state because

anything has to have a limit. So whatever limit have to be reached at, it should be a limit that will be convenient for him to rule

and then you will have to hand over to other people.

As for any mistakes in the country right now we see that the Head of state is above the law, I believe the law should be made in

such a manner that possibly if somebody is in that office, and then he has a lot of eccesses (kufanya makosa mingi) and then he

has to be impeached and taken to the court of law for punishment. So whoever takes the ushukani kama Head of State will

always be morally upright and physically upright.

And for the election of the councillors, I maintain that the people to be elected should be above form 4. Same applies to the

Parliamentarians. There shouldn’t be any, so that we now operate kwa level ambayo watu watakuwa wakielewa ni vitu gani

inaendelea katika hiyo constituency. Mayors na chairmen wa councils should also be elected by the whole district nd the

township so that he becomes a mayor for all the people. Chairmen for the council for the whole district

Interjection:

Com. P. M. Wambua: Apana, time imeisha, vile utafanya juu naona uko na memorandum hapa, utatupatia na hiyo

memorandum tutaisoma. Nafikiria yale ya muhimu yote umeyataja, kwa hivyo utupatie memorandum halafu tutaenda kuisoma.

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Kiboen: I will do that because I have already written I will give you this.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana. James Kiprop, yuko? Councillor Isaac Chemobo or Jemobo. Taja jina vizuri halafu

utupatie maoni.

Councillor Isaac Chemobo: Mimi ni councillor Isaac Chemobo kutoka Oseo location.

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Tafadhali fupisha maneno naona umembeba memorandum mrefu sana. Kwa hivyo tafadhali adika yale

ya mhimu dakika ni tano tu.

Councillor Chemobo: Asante bwana commissioner. Ya kwanza, Katiba hii tumepokea na tunasema asante ili tutoe

mapendekezo yetu. Tunapendekeza ya kwamba bunge ikikutana kwa uwaja fulani, ili ipitiswe, ile 65% iongezwe kuwa 69% .

Uraia: Tunaomba Katiba iwekwe ili mwanamke yeyote ambaye ataolewa na mtu wa Kenya, awe raia automatically.

Usalama ya nchi ipewe Rais kama kawaida.

Vyama vya siasa ifupishwe kutoka ya wakati huu 43 au 47 mpaka 3 kwa sababu vyama zikikuwa mingi, itagawanya wananchi

wa Kenya.

Miundo ya aina ya serikali: Wakati huu tungependekeza miundo ya serikali tuwe na Rais kufika head tuwe, na waziri mkuu na

tuwe na serikali ya majimbo.

Mahakama: Tungependekeza Katiba iundwe kwa upande ya mahakama, korti isisikize kesi ya mashamba kwa sababu kule

kortini, hawajui mipaka yetu, irudishwe kwa wazee wa mitaa, assistant chief, na chief na DO ili watu wale hawajiwezi,

hawawezi kufika Nairobi.

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Serikali ya mitaa: County council au mtu akiwa councillor mpaka awe na masomo ya darasa la nane mpaka University. Wale

wanahitaji kuwa mayor na vitu vya county council, lazima wawe na form 4 na kwelekea juu.

Haki ya kimzingi: Elimu – tunataka Katiba iwekwe ili masomo iwe free kutoka nursery mpaka kidato cha nne. Na serikali

igalamie school equipment kama zamani.

Haki ya Ardhi na mali: Tunaomba Katiba iundwe ili serikali lazima ilipe compensation kwa wale ambao shamba zao

zitachukuliwa na serikali. Wanaume na wanawake wawe na uwezo wa kumiliki ardhi. Katika sheria zetu za Tugen au mila

zetu, msichana hawezi kupewa shamba na tungependekeza iseme hivi, ile familia ambayo haikujaliwa kupata kijana, aruhusu

msichana aamiriki shamba. Mtu yeyote ambaye anaye shamba hatumii kikamilivu tunaomba Katiba iwekwe ili hiyo shamba

ipate kuteuliwa na serikali na kugawanyiwa wale ambao hawana.

Pade ya ardhi kwa ukulima: Katiba iundwe ili price control iletwe, mfano, price ya mahidi mbegu, mbegu ni bei kali kuliko ya

kukula. Kilo kumi begu ni shiringi elfu moja mia tatu ishirini na ile ngunia moja ya 90 kilo ni shilingi mia tatu mpaka mia nne.

Katiba iangalie hiyo mambo.

Haki za wana jamii: Kutahirisha wasichana ipigwe marufuku lakini vijana iendelee vile ilikuwa. Katika sheria zetu za Tugeni,

kijana mkubwa ndiye atakayemshika baba wakati atafaliki na yule kijana mdogo amshike mama. Tungependa Katiba imruhusu

jamii yake imushike au ifanye mashizi kwa watu wao, sio kwa binti yule analetwa kutoka nyumba ingine. Tena tungependa

sheria ya kuweka mtoto kiboko irudishwe kwa shule watoto wawekwe kiboko. Hata kwa bibilia kwa kitabu cha Methali

22:15 inatwambia kwamba lazima mtoto aoje kiboko akikosa.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Councillor tafadhali fupisha maneno maanake hiyo memerandum tutaisoma.

Councillor Chemobo: Ninaenda kumaliza, kwa desturi yetu tena ya tugeni, hatuna divorce. Tunaye separation, yaani mtu

akioa bibi yake, wakati wanakosana hakuna kufukuza yeye aende kwao. Anajengewa nyumba kule na anakaa kama bibi yako

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lakini mzungu alipokuja akasema wacha hiyo bibi arudi kwao. Kwa hivyo tunataka hiyo iwe sheria ya kwamba kama

umeshaoa, umeshaoa weka yeye kando kule aendelee awe bibi yako hata kama utakosa kwenda kule.

Ya mwisho: masirahi ya walemavu iangaliwe. Watoto wao wapate kutunzwa na serikali kuanzia primary mpaka university.

Urithi Upokesanaji wa uwezo; Rais yeyote amestaff apewe ulinzi, mshahara na asishitakiwe katika mahakama yeyote akiacha

kazi. Asante bwana commissioner.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much councillor. Please register your memorandum there. Your views are very

good, we will take them into the account. Tunamuita Jacob Chetalang. Hayuko? Charles Chepchien, He is not there?

Tutamuita Bin Sein Kirop. Hayuko? Joseph Cherop, Joseph Cherop, yuko? Joseph Cherop, ameenda? Samuel K. Kale.

Samuel Kiptui Kale: Asante sana commissioners kwa kupata nafasi hii. Yangu neno la kwanza ni juu ya elected leaders. Jina

ni Samuel Kiptui Kale. Ningependa kuongea juu ya elected leaders ambao wanatoroka watu wao baada ya kuchaguliwa.

Hawa watu kuwe na sheri ambayo wakipotea kwa muda fulani waondolewe kwa uongozi kama vile nasikia hata bunge akikosa

siku nane anaondolewa. Kuwe na sheria ambayo itasaidia kuondoa watu kama hao. Wasiwe wakikula pesa na huku

hawasaidii watu.

Neno ingine ni juu ya minerals ambayo inapatikana kwa nchi. Tunasikia sheria ilioko sasa ni kwamba chochote itakapopatikana

chini ya ardhi inch sita si mali yako ni ya serikali. Na wale wakaaji wa sehemu hiyo, watakuwa wakiona mali ikienda na

hawapati chochote. Ningeomba kuwe na sheria ambayo wale watakuwa wakifikiriwa watapewa nini au kuwe na society fulani

ambayo itasaidia hawa wapate mali hiyo.

Ingine ni mambo ya communication: Katika Katiba iliyoko sasa, tunaona sehemu zingine hakuna barabara, hakuna simu, na hali

wakati wa …. Hata mali kugawanywa mali kwa serikali kufanyia maendeleo, sehemu kama hizo zimesahauliwa. Kwa hivyo

kama Katiba itakuweko itasema sehemu kama hizo isaidiwe ama mali ambayo ni ya nchi iwe ikifikia sehemu kama hizo kwa

kutengenezewa barabara na hali ya simu. Communication kwa jumla.

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Mambo ya free education: Kuna sehemu nchi kavi ambayo watu hawana mali na wangehitaji watoto wao wasome, tungeomba

Katiba ya Kenya iseme ya kwamba, watu kama hawa wawe wakipewa free education mpaka darasa la nne ili kila mtu awe na

elimu sawa katika nchi.

Nyingine ni juu ya afya: mfano juzi kulikuwako na immunization ambaye ni ya misciles, pengine kuna sehemu ingine haikufikiwa

kwa sababu imekuwa bali hakuna barabara hakuna hata hospitali. Sehemu kama hizo ziwe zikifikiliwa katika Katiba hii mpya

ya kwamba ifikiwe sehemu zote katika mambo ya afya kama vile Katiba ya mbele inasema tulitaka kuondoa ujinga, ugojwa na

umasikini. Na wanakuaga pengine hiyo Katiba haikutimiza End of side A tape 3

Councillors katika nchi ya Kenya wawe wakilipwa kama wabunge kupitia national assembly kwa sababu county council

inaonekana mara kwa mara tunasikia councillors wanalia hawana pesa kwa sababu council yao hakuna pesa. Iwe kwa sababu

ni viongozi wanachaguliwa na wako na wananchi zaidi kuliko hata mbunge, pesa yao itoke kwa national assembly kama vile

wabunge wanavyofanyiwa.

Mambo ingine ni koti: Local authority wana charge koti pengine mimi nikiwa mfugaji, ninafuga ng’ombe yangu kwa shinda

mingi lakini wakati napeleka auction nakuta mtu hapo anataka koti na ikiwa n hivyo, local authorities wawe wakisaidia kama ni

wafuganji, wasaidiwe kwa njia zingine kama madawa ya kutibu ng’ombe zao na wawe na madaktari ambao watakuwa

wakiangalia masirahi ya hizo mali ili kesho tukilipa koti tunajua tunasaidiana na hawa. Kwa mfano, kama wakulima wa

mashamba, mtu anafuna mahidi yake anaweka store anakula sawa sawa, hakuna kodi analipishwa. Hawa wakipeleka soko

kama hapa pengine hakuna kodi analipishwa lakini mimi nikileta ng’ombe yangu kwa sokoni nadaiwa, inakuwa black _____

kama nitauza elfu mbili ni ______ na yule ameuza elfu ishirini. Hata hapo hakuna usawa. Kodi pia kwa biashara hizi dogo

dogo kama viosk, maduka, unakuta pengine, katika Katiba, haitabui ya kwamba yule ana ifaa katika duka lake ya shiringi elfu

ishirini, na yule anaprefer ambaye ni elfu mia moja. Pengine nadaiwa kodi inakuwa sawa. Tuwe na tofauti hapo ambaye ni

kama vile hii mambo ya Value Added Tax. Mali ya mtu iwe valued ndio indaiwe kodi.

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Ya mwisho ni mambo ya kazi. Kwa wakati huu tunaona watoto wamemaliza mashule, wengi wao wako barabarani wakitafuta

kazi. Katika Katiba, iwe kuna njia ambayo kwa mfano kama National Youth Service, iwe ni compulsory ambaye watoto

watakuwa wakipitia huko wakimaliza secondary education wale hawakuweza kwenda university. Wapitie mahali fulani ambao

watakuwa wakipata mafunzo – courses bali bali halafu kuwe na record ambayo kuajiriwa nafasi za kazi hizo zikipatikana

wanajulikana wako. Nafikiri hayo ndio ni nayo. Asante sana.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana. Tafadhali jiadikishe hapo. Tunamuita Mama Damaris Cherelko. Ako wapi Damaris?

Damaris Cherelko – Kenya Women Political locals, Johana Kibet, Johana Kibet .

Johana Kibet: First of all my name is Johana Kibet. Mr. Commissioner, the first point is the council of elders who deal with

issues in our communities or sublocation should be recognized by the government and be paid. Everybody in Kenya regardless

of position and authority should be charged equally. The powers of the President should be reduced and the ministers should

be chosen by the cabinet.

Anti-corruption authority should be formed and should have a right to prosecute any corrupt person found receiving or giving

bribes.

In terms of education, the government should priorize the needy children who come from poor backgrounds for burseries and

should be clear from the routes. The parliament should not be extended since the law states clearly that a term that is 5 years

there should be an election which should be done to elect new leaders unless there is crisis like war. That is when the life of the

parliament will be extended but in Kenya there is no crisis. Those are the only ones.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana, thank you very much. Ezekiel Tuigon.

Ezekiel Tuigon: Thank you commissioners, my name is Ezekiel Taitu Tuigon. I have come here with some few points to

make.

Ya kwanza ningependelea kutaja juu ya muda wa serikali. Mimi ningependelea tuwe na muda wa serikali wa federal system of

governemtn. Hii ni mana ni serkali ile ya majimbo ambapo itahakikisha ya kwamba rasilimali zote za nje zinagaiwa sawa kwa

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kila upande wa nje.

Upande ambao ningependa kugusia vile vile ni upande wa basic rights. Hapa ningeomba constitution iwekwe ya kuwa shule ya

lazima kwa kila mtoto na iwe free kwanzia primary mpaka university. Na pale pale ambapo kwa upande wa watoto ningependa

kutaja ya kwamba watoto lazima wapewe discipline. Hii inamaanisha kama upande wa kuchapwa viboko kama mtoto

amekosa, hiyo lazima ikuweko. Halafu upande ya watoto vile vile sheria ipitishe kuwa watoto ambao wamepata elimu

kutokana na juhudi ya wazazi yao, wawe wakilipia kitu kidogo angao wasitupe wazazi kwa vile wazazi wamemaliza mali yao

yote na watoto wameelimishwa wamemaliza mali kwa nyumba, lazima mtoto akumbuke wazazi anapomaliza shule, na sheria

ipitishwe kuwa awe akipeana idadi kidogo ya pesa yake kwa wazazi na iwekwe office ambayo masirahi ya wazazi

inachunguzwa.

Upande wa mali na shamba: Kwa upande huu ningependelea kama kuna shamba yeyote serikali ingependelea kuchukua kutoka

kwa wananchi lazima kwanza serikali ilipie hiyo shamba kabla ya kuchukua kutoka kwa mwenyewe; lazima compensation

ilipwe kwanza na hiyo ifanywe agreement kwa sababu ukienda bali kuna watu kama hii watu wa ______ forest zamani. Kuna

wale watu walinyang’anywa mashamba yao na bado hawajalipwa mpaka wa saa hizi.

Tukienda upande wa environment and natural resources, ningependelea constitution iwekwe ya kwamba natural resources, kitu

kama forestry, minerals na nini iwe ikilindwa na wenyeji wenye area hiyo na kama kuna faida yeyote inatokana na hiyo sehemu

hiyo pesa irudi kwa kusaidia wananchi wa sehemu hiyo. Asanteni.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana Ezekiel. Tunamuita sasa Helen Kibigon ambaye ni official Seagull. Ako wapi? Helen

Kibigon.

Hellen Kibigon: I’ve got a written memorandum but I’m just going to address a few issues.

Culture diversity and communal rights: Traditional security that are harmful to the health and welbeing of the people especially

that are ______ the oppression of women and girls such as female circumcision should be outlawed. There should be a

mandatory _______ requirements over several months before a marriage can be solemnized during this period of HIV killer

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disease especially for new marriages. A mandatory health insurance policy subsdised by the state be there to ensure good

health and medical treatment to cover the whole population especially the old generation and low income families.

Medical attention should also be the privilege of all the nation but not for the rich only.

Good governance: The constitution should atrace the idea of transparency and accountability. The principle of gender equity

and equality should be ensured by the constitution so as to be applied in the appointment of sub-chiefs and councillors. The

state to be entrusted with their duty and responsibility of ensuring and enabling environment where every Kenyan regardless of

gender can feel free and protected in politics. The electoral commission should be a truly independent representative and

neutral in the process of its elections.

Cultural education: the constitution should outlaw cultural education practices that perpetrates discrimination against girls in

education and society which support in leading to early pregnancies, forced and child marriages for the girls. The constitution

should ensure the existence of a universal compulsory and mandatory primary education for all children regardless of gender or

physical status. The constitution should also strengthen the child’s bill of rights.

Land and property ownerships, taxation and emergency rights: The constitution must clearly address the consent of ownership

and custody in matters of land and property control, access and management as well as the element chain of ownership where

this is applicable as in marriages or cohabitation equity should be ensured to occur not only to be applied. The principle of

gender equality should be applicable on issues of inheritance, administration and ownership of property. It should take into

consideration the recognition and protection to the inheritance rights on equitable basis, the rights of widows and their children,

girls and boys equally. The new constitution should take care of the male dominance and manipulation in ownership left to

widows and orphans.

The family: The constitution to come should establish and protect laws pertained to marriages, cohabitation, separation, and

divorce. The laws of Kenya should recognize the family types.

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Last but not the least, the constitution must refill the ampiquities that have led to negative interpretation given to it and thereby

the loss of the country that are perpetuated the colonial mentalities that are the basis of our status which are discriminatory

mainly against women and children.

The last I would like to comment something on the people with disabilities. I could comment that the constitution should

recognize the needs of the disabilities for example if you go to post office, the booths we have, there is no booth which is meant

for the disabilities. If a disabled person wants to go and make a call its always very impossible. I have not seen. Also the

architects: with the new constitution to recommend them to decide the building and make sure they put some stairs for the

disabled persons. If you go to the district headquaters for example you will find that it is very impossible for the disabled people

to crimb up the stairs because it is not designed according to their nature.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: So what is your recommendation?

Hellen: My recommendation is that the constitution should recommend to the post of fice people to make some telephone

booths which are comfortable for the disabled person. That’s what I have.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Thank you, thank you. Iko swali kidogo. Unataka yambomolewe ili yatengenezwe upya au yale

ambayo yatakayojengwa yawe na facilities?

Hellen: Yale ambayo awe na facilities.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Umesema vizuri sana juu ya watoto wa kiume ili wawe protected lakini kuna kitu ambacho ningefikiria

kwa protection of orphans, ungeeleza zaidi, kwa maana kwa sasa, kuna wakati fulani baba na mama wanakufa na kama jamii

hiyo haina watu wema, wanachukua ile shamba ya hiyo baba na hiyo mama halafu hawa watoto kama wanakuwa wakubwa,

wanakosa mji yao. Ungependa tuseme namna gani kwa Katiba? Juu ya shamba tu ile ambayo jamii wanachukuwa halafu hawa

watoto wakishakuwa wakubwa wakirudi kwao hawana hata mahali ya kujenga nyumba.

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Hellen: Ningependekeza sheria iwekwe ya kwamba, ikiwa wazazi wa watoto watakufa, the rest of the family wawe

responsible for the orphans and a law should be made that any land left by parents of the orphans should not be sold.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante sana. Alfred Komen, Alfred Komen yuko? Alikwisha tangulia? Okay. Wilson Kandago,

mlikuwa mnapewa dakika gapi? Ilikuwa tatu au gapi?

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Asante sana commissioners, kwa majina ni Councillor Wilson Kadago kutoka Kabutie location,

Bariweza division. Basi nasema asante sana commissioners kwa hii Katiba ambaye tunapokea. Basi langu ni kuanzia freedom

ya waumini katika makanisa ni kwamba katika Katiba yetu ya Kenya, freedom ya expression iweze kuendelea vile ilivyokuwa.

Ya pili, ni mambo ya wavulana na wasichana ni kwamba mvulana kawaida ndiye mridhi wa mali na yule msichana ambaye

hajaolewa pia baba yake aweze kuangalia, lakini yule ameenda kwake mahali anapata uridhi wake aweze kwendelea kule.

Yaani iwe na equality kwa yule hajaolewa.

Kitu kingine, tunaye game reserves ambayo zimetengwa katika sehemu zetu, vile ninatoka sehemu kavu mimi katika bonde la

Kerio Valley, serikali yetu tukufu yaweze kusaidisha wale right holders kutoka sehemu hiyo kuwapatia kitu wale wametoa hiyo

sehemu.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Wasema wapatiwe kitu, kitugani?

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Yaani, icompensate hawa watu wamekaa sehemu hiyo surrounding those reserves kumpa may

be zawadi kama pesa au shamba mahali pengine. Nimesema sehemu yangu lakini katika Kenya pia.

Kitu kingine ni nchi kafu: Nchi kafu tungeomba serikali yetu tukufu au Katiba hii iweze kuangalia nchi kavu. Katiba iweze

kukolotesha nchi kafu wapewe education ya dunia ili nchi kafu iweze kupata chakula kama sehemu za Kerio Valley, sehemu za

Mocoswop na sehemu zingine katika Kenya na wapatiwe pesa kutoka sehemu zingine au wale watu ambao wana ujuzi ya kazi

hiyo waweze kusaidiwa. Pamoja na hayo, ni mahali pa mawe, mawe Katiba iweze kuwangalia watu wa mawe ili waweze

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kupatiwa industries halafu mawe katika sehemu hii ya Baringo au sehemu zingine za Kenya ambazo ziko na mawe waweze

kuexport sehemu zingine za dunia.

Kitu ingine ni mambo ya public utilility zao, forests pamoja na maschools and etc. ni kwamba imekuwa sehemu za watu

kunyakuwa. Kwa hivyo tungeomba Katiba iweze kuangalia hiyo ratifa na iweze kuitekeleza vizuri kuweka line ili vitu ambazo

zimetegewa raia ziweze kuchungwa vizuri kwa wale watu ambao wanaweza kunyakua sehemu hizo. Wana commissioners, mtu

wangu ambae angesoma memorandum hajafika, kwa hivyo uniruhusu tu one minute ni seme kitu sababu nimetoka bali sana.

Kitu ingine ni mambo ya pombe: Tungeomba Katiba mambo ya pombe ya kienyenji ipigwe marufuku na pombe ambaye watu

wanasema ni ile pombe halali, hiyo iende kwa towns. Sehemu za reserves zipigwe marufuku kabisa, hata hiyo pia.

Neno lingine ni land attribution section: Tuweke Katiba mambo ya kuandikisha mashaba, (muda) kama sisi watu wa Kerio

Valley tuliandikishwa 1980 mpaka saa hii hakuna kitu ambacho inaweza hata kufikiliwa kama title deed. So iwekwe muda

wake basi sehemu popote katika Kenya ikiisha, basi title deed yake itakuwa imeoloteshwa kuwa ya haraka.

Neno lingine ni mambo ya Katiba: Mambo ya term ya bunge – ningeomba kwa sababu Katiba yetu haijakuwa tayari sasa,

iweze kusongeshwa mpaka mwaka wa 2004 ili Katiba iweze kuwa na nguvu na

Interjeciton

Com. Pastor Ayonga: isongeshwe mpaka

Councillor Wilson Kadago: mpaka 2004

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ni Katiba au ni bunge.

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Bunge, bunge, ni bunge ili Katiba iwe tayari, na meanwhile, mambo ya IDs pamoja na voting

card ipate nafasi ya kurudiwa tena kwa wale vijana ambao hawajakuwa na hizo vitu.

Kitu kingine ne nominated members kutoka national assembly pamoja na local authorities. Iwe short listed kwa sababu hawa ni

wengi na iende kwa wale special interest kwa wale wa local government au ya national assembly.

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Kitu kingine ni chiefs act iweze kufanya kazi kama zamani na wazee wa mita waweze kupatiwa kitu. Hawa wanafanya kitu ya

mhimu sana katika sehemu zetu.

Kitu kingine ni fahari pamoja na forest. Najua nasikia hiyo inamilikiwa na United Nations, ipewe katika serikali inayotawala

katika sehemu yake iwe akiangalia mambo ya forest pamoja na fahari kwa sababu kutoka sehemu za nje zitakuwa ni vingumu.

Karibu ya mwisho commissioners, MPs wetu ambao wako katika lile bunge wapewe tume wakuchunguza pesa zao; wasiwe ni

hao kwa sababu wakati wanataka kufanya maendeleo ya sehemu, wanapingana. Wakati wakungeza pesa wanasikilizana.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Thank you very much Councillor Wilson Kadago, kuna kaswali ambalo tutakuuliza. We keti kwanza

kuna swali.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Umesema habari ya pombe, kwamba itolewe iwekwe mahali, lakini kuna pombe ingine ile mbaya sana,

hii wanasema ati shiringi kumi na tano iko kwa packet, lakini kuna kitu dani ya hii mambo, kama umeona television,

wanatangaza hiyo pombe ya shiringi kumi na tano na wanatangaza ile pombe kali sana. Kwa dunia hii, iko nchi zingine serikali

imekataa kikatiba, hawawezi kutangaza hawawezi kufanya advertisement ya pombe kali. Hujasema kitu juu ya hiyo na unajua

watoto wakiona kitu inasifiwa sana kwa television, wanaona hiyo kitu ni mzuri. Pengine ungependekeza hata television isitoe hii

mambo ya kuonyesha pombe kama ni kitu mzuri – ile pombe kali.

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Asante sana commissioner, nafikiri vile umesema, ni ukweli, yote ambayo inadhulu maisha ya

binadamu ni napendekeza vile umesema ya kwamba isionyeshwe katika television na hata iondolewe kwa sababu hiyo ni chang’

aa tayari. Iondolewe kabisa hata kwa sehemu hizo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Na unaposema chochote ambacho kinadhulu maisha, si kuna na vitu vingine ambavyo vinatangazwa na

pia vinadhulu maisha? Bona hukuvisema?

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kama sigara pengine inaweza kudhulu maisha ya ______(inaudible)

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Bwana commissioner nafikiria hayo, unajua

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Aa Sijui

Councillor Wilson Kadago: vitu kama hizo hata mimi sitaki.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Lakini tusiwe tunaviita vitu kama hizo, tuseme jina la kitu.

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Vitu hizo kama sigara, kama chang’aa, ata nicotine, basi viondolewe.

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Com. Pastor Ayonga: Vitu kama hivyo viondolewe?

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Viondolewe

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante.

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Isitangazwe katika vyombo vya kutangaza

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Inaudible interjection

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Na kule kutangaza pia kuna husikana pia na habari ya kuweka mapicha katika masoko, hiyo pia

unajua ni matangazo?

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Ni matangazo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Kwa hivyo hayo yote huyataki?

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Iondolewe.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Iondolewe?

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Ndio.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante.

Councillor Wilson Kadago: Basi Bwan commissioner asante.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante sana councillor, uweke kidole ndipo uende kuchunga pale pahali ulitoka. Sasa mwingine Kuna

naye anaitwa Charles Kulei, ni wewe? Kulei una dakika tatu. Basi wewe mzuri sana. Sema majina yako kwanza.

Charles Kulei: Mimi naitwa Charles Kulei, nimetoka upande wa Kathiamo huko chini. Naongea yangu kuhusu mambo ya

President.

Ningependa sheria itungwe ya kwamba (unajua kama nyumba ya mtu hakuna baba, hiyo nyumba si nyumba). So ningetaka

President kama amefika cheo ya President aendelee mpaka wakati atakufa. Ya kwanza hiyo.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Life?

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Kulei: Life. Kama amefika cheo hiyo ya President.

Ya pili ningependa mambo ya plots, county council unajua zamani wakati sheria iliundwa hatukuako sisi. Tulikuta ukoloni ndio

iliundwa na wakati huo watu walikuwa wachache. Wakati huu watu wamekuwa ni wengi wengi sana. Plots zigawanywe 50 by

100 iwe 20 x 100 ndio kila mtu apate kidogo kidogo. Hiyo iwekwe kwa sheria.

Mashamba: Shamba unakuta, example moja, minister au assitant minister anakula mshahara elfu mia mbili au million moja sijui

mishahara yao ni gapi. Unakuta anatembea na gari kubwa kubwa, shamba yake ni kutoka chini hapa mpaka kilometer kumi.

Ningesema ya kwamba, kama inawezekana, yule mtu ako na shamba ambayo anakaa bila kushitawishwa ingwanyiwe wananchi

ndio kila mtu apate shamba kidogo kidogo.

Interjection

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Ile hafanyii kazi au ile anafanyia kazi?

Kulei: Ile hafanyii kazi, kama unalima yote ni sawa, kama ni kidogo unalima unawacha ile ingine basi. Ipewe yule masikini

ambaye hana shamba.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Apewe bure bila kulipa?

Kulei: Apewe bure na serikali, apewe bure, kama mzungu yuko na shamba yake kubwa kama hii ya Lord Dalamere kwa

sababu unakuta iko giraffee iko nini, iko nini dani, inagaiwa wananchi wale ambao hawana shamba kwa sababu tumekuwa

wengi.

Ya mwisho, ya mwisho ni hii: Kwa government unakuta wamefirishika na kuchunguza unakuta wako na magari ambao

zinakunywa mafuta shiringi elfu mia mbili kutoka hapa mpaka Mombasa for example.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Elfu mia mbili?

Kulei: Example kitu kama two hundred thousand. Kama hii intercooler na kitu ingine.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Kama hii yetu?

Kulei: Kama hiyo yenu hiyo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Inakunywa elfu mia mbili?

Kulei: Inakunywa pesa mingi kwenda, kwa sababu mimi sina gari sijui ile inakunywa kiasi gani. Mimi najua inakunywa mafuta

mingi.

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Com. Pastor Ayonga: Lakini elfu mia mbili umetoa wapi basi?

Kulei: Nimefanya hesabu kulingana na hii nasikia super kuweka kwa mkebe unakuta inayeuika inakwisha. So kuweka kwa

gari naona inayeyuka vile vile.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: (inaudible)

Kulei: Basi, nigesema namna hii, hii company kama hii ya ministry of work, ministry still ni dogo dogo.

interjection

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Sema tu point unayo tafadhali.

Kulei: Wanunue magari dogo dogo badala ya kununua magari ya pesa mingi.

Interjection

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Na kwa milima?

Kulei: Kwa milima watatumia landrover. Iko 4 wheel landrover na inakunyua mafuta kidogo. So ndio tusafe mambo ya pesa.

Halafu iko ya mwisho kabisa nimesahau. Ya mwisho ni hii: tuko na vijana ambao wamesoma, na unakuta mtu kama mimi

labda niko parliament, mshahara yangu ni mingi, ningesema serikali itunge sheria ya kwamba, pesa, kama wewe ni mbunge,

pesa yako ni kiasi fulani na ile inabaki kwa hiyo mshahara ilipwe watu wale wamemalisha shule.

Com. Paster Ayonga: Asante sana.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kulei kuna kitu umesoma mimi nataka uniambie.

Kulei: Endelea.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Unasema juu ya life presidency. Kama sasa tunajua tumekuwa na Presidents wazee, tukipata President

maana mwisho mumetuambia ni 35 years ndio awe, kama yeye ako na miaka 35 na mungu ampe maisha mazuri aendelee

mpaka miaka themanine, unataka aendelee tu?

Kulei: Vile tutafanya hapo, utapata wakati tunapiga kura, anakutwa ako na watu wengi, hii inaonekana kichwa yake inafanya

kazi, so hapo kuna maparmanent secretaries wengi, kuna makamu wa Rais hapo, na si watasaidiana wanaendelea wanaendesha

nchi. Kama nchi iko na usalama hakuna ubaya.

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Com. Pastor Ayonga: Mtu aendelee mpaka ubango unakwama?

Kulei: Bora uwe President uendelee.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Okay, lakini si mpaka amekufa?

Kulei: Akikufa basi yeye anazikwa na wengine waendelee.

Laughter

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante

Kulei: Okay asante sana.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kwa sasa tunataka Bwana Wilson Ruto. Wilson Ruto, karibu.

Wilson Ruto: Basi, nashukuru commissioners kwa nafasi hii. Jina langu naitwa Wilson Ruto, ninatoka upande wa Lake

Baringo na nimefurahi kufika katika mkutano kama huu ili nitoe maoni yangu. Maoni yangu ningeanza nayo ni haya:

Tangu tulipopata uhuru Kenya tulikuwa jamii majo na wakati tulipokuwa jamii moja tulikuwa na wabunge ambao tunaita

nominated MPs na wakati tulipoingia kwa multi-party, unapata nominated MPs wanakaa kulingana na parties. Kwa hivyo

ningeonelea sasa, mtu akichaguliwa anaenda huko kuakilisha party yake. Maoni yake anatoa kulingana na party yake. Kwa

hivyo nominated MPs kwa wakati huyu wa multi-party ningeona ni vizuri iondolewe.

Hata nominated councillors waondolewe halafu wachukuliwe watu ambao wanawakilisha professionals, saa ingine watu

wanaakilisha kama civil service, watu wanaakilisha kama waalimu, na watu wanaakilisha kama youth na wengine wanaakilisha

masilahi ya akina mama. Kwa sababu tangu tulipoingia multi partys tunaona wabunge wanashughulika sana na vyama vyao.

Wakati tunafungua bunge tunauliza tu, tunasikia wanauliza tu maneno ya party; mtu anatoka party hii anaingia hii party. Kwa

hivyo sisi kama watu ambao tunawakilishwa, tunaona ni vizuri tukuwe na watu ambao wanatuwakilisha.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Point yako umeishafanya. Sema ingine.

Wilson Ruto: Basi, sasa ya pili tena ni elders. Ninaona tuko na mto kama hizo ambao zinatelemsha maji kwa lake na kuna

watu wanatumia hiyo maji wengine wanaosha magari, wengine wanaosha vitu kwa hiyo maji na hii maji inatelemka kwa mahali

pale inakunyiwa. Kwa hivyo tunaonelea ingekuwa ni vizuri mto kama hizo kuwe na sheria ambayo inalinda maji

ambayoinatililika kwa mto, mtu asichafue. Na hata mtu akileta gari yake kuosha kwa maji ambayo inalala kama ile iko kwa

bahari kama Lake Baringo, basi kuweko na sheria ambayo tunaweza kushtaki na tukuwe na mtu ambaye anaimplement hiyo

sheria kwa sababu kuna mtu anaweza kuona na anawachana nayo. So tungeomba iwekwe sheria na iwekwe mtu ambaye

anaweza kuimplement hiyo.

86

Na kuhusu watoto wa shule kwenda kortini: tunaona wazee mtu akiwa na umri wa miaka 18 na kwenda juu ndio anatakiwa

aenda kortini. Kwa hivyo watoto wakiwa chini ya hapo, hakuna kwenda kortini na mambo yao ni kiboko. Kwa hivyo hiyo

kiboko iludishwe. Asante sana

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Thank you so much. Chebet Sumukwo, Peter Chesire. Okay mzee sema.

Peter Chesire: Yangu tu ni machache kabisa. Kwa hivi sasa watu wameshaongea mingi. Jina langu ni Peter Kimosop

Chesire.

Kwa upande wa Katiba: Kwa maoni yangu naona Katiba, sijui hii Katiba ni ya kuchunga au ya kupamua. Sababu moja hii,

mwaka uliopita au miaka ingine imepita, tuliona begu kilo kumi ni shiringi elfu moja na mia tatu kwa kilo kumi. Kwa ngunia mtu

akitaka kuuza ni shiringi mia nne. Katiba inasema kweli imeenda mbele au imerudi nyuma?

Interjection

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Sasa tuambie mzee ungetaka je?

Peter Chesire: Nataka bei ya begu iwekwe chini sana maana kilo kumi mbegu haiwezi kuwa sawa sawa na ngunia moja.

Nataka hiyo iangaliwe sana kwa Katiba.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ungetaka begu ingewekwa bei gani hiyo ya kilo kumi?

Peter Chesire: Kilo kumi ingekuwa kama shiringi sitini na kwelekea chini hata mia mbili peke yake. Ili wananchi waweze

kufaidika nayo kwa maendeleo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Point ingine mzee.

Peter Chesire: Point ingine ni upande wa forest. Kutoka mwaka wa 1944 au 1939 serikali ya wabeberu walifunga misitu

kutoka So_____ ya nje, dana yake walikuwa na watu wa right holders na mpaka siku hiyo walikuwa wanafanya agreement

kwamba wewe ni right holder. Mpaka sasa hiyo right holder haijakamilika na bado inanyanyashwa. Kwa hivyo nataka hao

watu wapatiwe haki yao kikamilifu.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Na ya mwisho?

Peter Chesire: Ya mwisho ni hiyo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante sana mzee. Ujiandikishe. Kuna Peter Kibowen? Solomon Chelono, Solomon Chelono?

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Yuko? Councillor umejiandikisha?

Councillor Vincent Kipkiror: Asante sana wanacommissioners kulioko na sisi siku ya leo,

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Sema majina yako!

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Kwa majina mimi naitwa Councillor Vincent Kipkiror kutoka Kaposkei location na location

ingine inaitwa Kipkator katika tarafa ya Salaman. Yangu yatakuwa mafupi. Kwanza kabisa mimi ningependelea kuhusu

mambo ya Rift Valley especially province ya Rift Valley. Kwangu ningependelea igawanywe iwe mara tatu na ningependelea

iende namna hii: North Rift ingekuwa Turkana, Saburu, na kwa Central Rift ningependelea iwe Nakuru, Laikipia, Wasingishu,

West Pokot, Baringo na Koibatek. Ya tatu iwe … Lengo ingine ni kwamba North Eastern also should be divided into two

regions.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Hukusema ya tatu. Rift Valley ya tatu.

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Niko nayo. West Rift, ya tatu ni Kajiado, Transmara, Narok district.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Na Kericho umepeleka wapi?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Na pia Kericho.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Unapeana Jaluo hiyo.

Laughter Tape 4

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Ingine ni kuhusu mambo ya T. Falls. T. Falls mara kwa mara wanaume huwa wanapenda

kufukuza mabibi zao waende mahali walipozaliwa. Nami pia ningependelea ya kwamba hata nao akina mama wakiona wazee

wamecheza, wajiforce.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Waende wapi?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Waende kwao,

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Na kwao ndio hii jina T. falls mzee?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Yaani kila mwanamke na mwanaume wanakaa, ikifika mahali kama wakikosana, mwanamke

anaenda kwao, mwanaume anaenda kwao?

88

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Na kama bwana yuko kwao?

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kwa mzee ni wapi?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Kwa mzee?

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ye.

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Kwa sababu hapo awali tulikuwa tumekubaliana kila mtu awe anapewa right ya kuwa na

shamba.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Na shamba iko na jina ya nani?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Shamba?

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Ee iko jina ya nani?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Itakuwa kwa yule mwenye anahusika.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Lakini, hayo ni maoni yako, nadhani hata bibi yako amesikia,

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Laughter

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Kwamba anaweza kukufukuza na yeye. Lakini wanaume wengine hapa nawao wakae na maoni yao.

Endelea.

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Ingine ya mwisho ni kuhusu mambo ya kifo. Mara kwa mara, mwanaume akifa unakuta mama

ni yeye ndiye anaweza anakatalia kusema mwanaume huenda kama ako na wanawake wawili, yule mwenye ako na nguvu zaidi,

ndio unaona wanajaribu kupinga mahali pa kuzika huyo mwanaume. So kwangu ningependelea kwamba, mtu akifa awe kwa

mikono ya familia. Isiwe kwa mambo ya kusema mama fulani.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Hayo ni maoni yako Asante.

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Asante.

89

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Lakini bona husemi mzee ….. (inaudible)

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Hebu rudia tafadhali.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Si niandike will vile anataka awekwe.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ili mambo yasije yawe magumu baada ya kifo, kila mtu aseme nikifa, ninataka nifanyiwe hivi.

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Ndio, ningependelea hivyo pia kama inawezekana.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Lakini kijana wewe unajua, mambo ni gumu sana Kenya sasa, mtu anaweza kukaa akiwa maiti kwa

muezi moja kama familia bado inajadilia kule atazikwa, sasa unaturudisha pale pale kwa familia ndio weseme kule mzee

atazikwa, na familia ndio sasa inaweka watu maiti mwezi moja. Hii Katiba ni nyumba mpya ya Kenya, twambie kabisa kabisa

unataka tufanye namna gani kwa maiti?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Kwa maiti wakati mtu amekufa, ya mzee kwa boma, mtu akisha kufa, kwangu ningeonelea iwe

katika mkono ya familia kama madugu zake ama

interjection

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Si saa hii iko namna hiyo ndio ________

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Saa hizi katika Katiba yetu ya Kenya especially ile inatoka kwa Attorney General, kama mtu

ameoa na amepata certificate, na huenda ako na bibi alikuwa ameoa mbeleni, wakati anakufa unaona kutakuwa na mafurugano

ya kusema ni yeye ndiye anasitahili kuamua pahali penye yeye anaweza kuzikwa.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ndio, lakini si ndio tulisema wanaume waseme wakifa watazikwa wapi kabla hawajafa?

Concillor Vincent Kipkiror: Lakini Kifo huwezi sema namna hiyo.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Wewe sema tu vizuri, unajua sasa, mwanaume anaweza kufa hapa halafu bibi mwingine anatoka pande

ya Kabarnet, mwingine anatoka huko chini pande ya Lake Baringo kusema hata mimi nilikuwa bibi ya huyo mzee na pengine

bado hajaoa lakini amepata mtoto mmoja na yeye. Sasa huyu mze mmoja, mwanamke mmoja anafluta pande hii, mwingine

anafuta pande hii, na ni kwa ajiri ya mali tu. Hatuwezi kuwacha dunia hii inakaa namna hii. Lazima tuandike Katiba itasaidia

watoto, vizazi vijao. Kwa hivyo utueleze vile unataka.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ndio hiyo mimi nasema, kwa mfano kama hiyo, angekuwa anahusika kwa baba yake kama bado

ako hai ama madugu zake bado ako hai, ama jamii ya hiyo familia wawe wakiamua.

90

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Wacha nikusaidie, hii maneno hukufikiri utaulizwa, kwa hivyo kwenda ufikirie vizuri na uongee na

wazee halafu ututumie kwa maandishi yale ambao umepata. Si lazima utujibu saa hii kwa maana haya maneno kutazamea. Si

ndio? Ukweli wa mambo ndivyo hivyo. Asante

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Kwenda uongee na wazee kwa maana, hatutaki kuwacha Kenya uchi. Kaa chini na wazee useme

habari hii kabisa kabisa halafu andika barua kwetu.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante , sasa unaweza kwenda uweke kidole hicho. Maneno yako tumeyachukua lakini kubuka

kuna wazee. Huyu anaitwa Elijah Chebon. Umesha ongea? Wee ni Chebon? Basi Dakika tatu.

Elijah K. Chebon: Majina yangu naitwa Elijah K. Cheboni kutoka Subleon sublocation, Katolen location. Chebon.

So mimi mimi nitaenda kwa maoni yangu straight, sina maneno mingi. Nitaanza right from the central government, pale bado

_____ of ministries. Ministries zile ziko huwa zinatakiwa in one time ziwe not more than 18 ministries in the future government.

The other thing ni ya kwamba tuwe na wajumbe ambao watakuwa elected right from the electorate.

Kitu ingine ni ya kwamba hao wajumbe nao

Interjection

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Unaposema kwamba wajumbe wanaochaguliwa na electorate, kwa sasa unataka kutwambia

wajumbe hawachaguliwi na electorate?

Elijah Chebon: Wanachaguliwa lakini wako wale nominated. So hiyo ndio mahali nilikuwa nataka kutoa nominees wakae

kando na parliament kabisa, waondolewe.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Yaani ulikuwa unaonge juu ya nomination?

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Elijah Chebon: Yes.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Haya.

Elijah Chebon: So the other point ni ya kwamba ukiangalia mambo ya ministries, unakuta responsibility ya minister is no

longer addressed. There is somewhere interfered with right from outside the ministry. It does not take care of the ministry.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Unataka je?

Elijah Chebon: Nataka ya kwamba, the minister awe responsible of any inventualities in the ministry. Anything ile ambayo iko

kwa hiyo ministry iwe ni his responsibility. Kama ni mbaya afutwe – aondolewe kwa hiyo ministry. Isiwe cared from other

places.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Haya ingine.

Elijah Chebon: Ingine ni ya kwamba unakuta katika parliament hii ya sasa, inakuwa na problems mingi. Unakuta mjumbe

anaongea mambo ya sehemu zingine ambayo haijui, for instance there was a case in parliament one time baina ya kutoka

upande ya Marsabit, Mjumbe wa Nairobi anaongea mambo ya Marsabit and he has never been to Marsabit where he was

talking of. So I don’t know how he got this information.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Wajumbe ni watu waliosoma na wajumbe ni wajumbe wa Kenya na wana uhuru wa kuongea yeyote

kwa Marsabit. Kama sasa nikuulize kama mjumbe kutoka upande wa Nyanza alikuwa anazungumzia maneno ya hapa, habari

juu ya Wapokot na Watugen, na hawa wanaleta dawa ya kusema tunataka waishi hivi waishi hivi ili kuwe na amani, huyo

mjumbe atakuwa amekosea? Ataambiwa kwa maana yeye ni toka Nyanza, hatutaki aongee juu ya amani? Si kuongea kwake

ni kweli? Basi mjumbe ana uhuru, parliament ni ya Kenya ingawa huyo mjumbe ametoka constituency fulani lakini ni mjumbe

wa Kenya na parliament ni moja. Na huyo mjumbe atapigia kula for or against chochote ambacho kitasema. So, wambie

Interjection:

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Com. Phoebe Asiyo: hata mimi nilikuwa huko na nishaleta maswali juu ya Nakuru maana mjumbe wa huko alikuwa analala

siku hiyo. Na mimi natoa swali kwa ____(inaudible)

Elijah Chebon: So, asante

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Kwa hivyo mama alikosea?

Elijah Chebon: Hakukosea kwa upande mwingine, but always

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Ni upande gani alikosea?

Elijah Chebon: Yeye alikosea kwa sababu alisema ya kwamba huyo mjumbe alikuwa amelala. So kama amelala si

aondolewe na aende nyumbani. Itarudi ya kwamba nitoe maoni ya kwamba huyu mjumbe kama amekaa may be more than 3

consecutive times bila ku-appear in parliament, sababu pale parliament watu wamefanya kama ni biashara. So let me come to

that point ya kwamba, parliamentarians wawe wakiattend parliament sessions.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Okay hiyo ni point. Vizuri sana. Ya mwisho? Ulisema maneno yako ni machache lakini yamekuwa

mengi.

Elijah Chebon: Niko nayo mingi.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Dakika zako zimekwisha, wazee wengine wako hapa pia.

Elijah Chebon: Okay asante. Ingine ni ya kwamba tuwe tukiangalia security ya nchi hii, iwe inakuwa concerned na minister

mmoja kwa upande ya security. Na hii security iwe kwa upande kama ine tano. Ya kwanza iwe ni ya parliamentarians

wenyewe. Any parliamentarian should be given security. (2) Any Kenyan citizen should be protected. (3) Any property or

any farm inputs zenye ziko nchi hii, ziwe zinalindwa kwa biashara competitive business from outside world.

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Com. Pastor Ayonga: Thank you so much. Thank you, unaweza kujiandikisha kule. Sasa next ni Joshua Komen. Dakika

tatu tu Joshua.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Na si tulimuita sana? Hakuwa ko.

Joshua Komen: Thank you commissioners. I am going to present the views of Baroza division, Baringo North. My names

are Joshua Komen. First and foremost, I would like to make the observation that as has evident, not many people know what

the constitution is and what the constitution says about certain issues. So I think the need exists for sustained civic education

until the awareness has reached everyone about what a constitution says so that they can be in a position to know what they

want altered. Straight to the points.

This constituency for example consists of the upper line wealth areas and the low line poorer areas. In my views, the low line

areas have been marginalized because from the beginning the MPs have always come from the upper line areas, the areas of

Kabartonjo especially and specifically. We saw one time people from the valley attempting to contest their seats and the votes

that were ganered did not exist a hundred. So I think the constituency need to be redrawn in such a way that rather than ethnal

historical reasons, people should be put in the same constituency because of social economic reasons. So the people of the low

line areas need a constituency in which their interests can be represented in parliament.

Third, the people of this constituency by and large are pastoralists. That is following numbers. The issue of security coming

from the Northern frontier of the constituency, it comes in the form of cattle rustlers. Cattle rustlers should be viewed by the

constitution as violent robbers like any other and should be accorded the seriousness the constitution should provide for the

hunting. Serious hunting and prosecution of those people according to the same law that prosecutes persons who commit

robbery with violence.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: You want them hanged?

Joshua Komen: Exactly. For the Legisration, in utilizing the provisions in the constitution, the electoral commission should

register everyone that is above 18 years of age without sticking to the issuance of IDs.

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Academic certificates, leaving certificates and birth certificates should be used when issuing voters cards so that persons do not

have to wait for the ID cards before obtaining voters cards.

The electoral commission should also fulfil its constitutional provision and obligation of educating voters so that they can know

the obligations of their leaders and know who to elect as leaders so that they can know the persons that will best serve them

when elected to offices because the way things are at present is such that nobody knows the responsibilities of a councillors and

MP and even the President. Some people do confuse the responsibilities of those three.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: How do you know that these people are confused?

Elijah Chebon: When people elect their MP, when people elect their councillor, when people elect their President, they do it

out of their knowledge. I am a civic educator and I collected views from Baroza division. In the cause of collecting the views, I

came across a good number of people who didn’t know what their councillors are supposed to do, who did not know what

their MPs are supposed to do, same with the President. So mine are views from the people.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: And please sammarize your time is up.

Elijah Chebon: Okay, just a short time. The local authorities should be stipped of the influence they have over land falling

under the areas. County councils have not displayed sensitivity to the people whose land they are guardians. A case in points is

a piece of land called Lekamoro Game Reserve which was gazetted almost two decades ago. Although the constitution makes

it clear that people are supposed to be compensated for lands taken over by local authorities, that have never never happened.

Wildlife conservation is a thing we like all of us. However there is also the constitution prosection accorded to people the right

to live. People have been killed by wildl animals here in the valley and no compensation has been forthcoming. I would like

therefore the consitution to be clear about how people can be compensated by the government. I would like the constitution to

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make it a compassion for the government to compensate people whose family members have been killed by wildlife and people

whose property has been destroyed by wildlife.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Sasa utasema ya mwisho.

Elijah Chebon: Okay, I have heard that. Last, the office of the Executive should shield much of the powers and to appoint

the AG, to appoint the CJ. Qualified councils should be charged with those responsibilities.

The police force to be removed from the OP and place them under a body that enjoys a certain measure of autonomy that can

effectively train and equip policemen and reinumerate them well so that they can take good care of the security of Kenya.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: What is that body?

Elijah Chebon: Previously there was

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Because police fall under the office of the President and now you want that to be removed?

Elijah Chebon: A commission, a body that will do purposes similar to those performed previously by the police commission.

Police have this commission when it was there.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Thank you, please some _______________ (inaudible)

Mzee Lazaro Tuigon Mandela? Jina hili la mwisho ni Mandela? Wacha yeye mwenyewe aseme.

Lazaro Tuigon: Jina langu ni Lazaro Tuigon, lingine ni Mendela. Kwa sababu inafanana watu wanaitwa namna hiyo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Okay, endelea,

Lazaro Tuigon: Bwana commissioner, achekTugen ko…

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Umesema Mandela tena umegeuka?

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Lazaro Tuigon: Ng’atutikab tugen ko ngele i boiyo nebo kap chi ngo yos kong’alalei, ko ng’elenyerei lakyech

Translator: Sheria za Tugen ni kwamba hata mzee akiwa na umri gani, akiwa amezeeka namna gani atakuwa na urimi ya

kuzungumza. Ya kuzungumzia watoto wake.

Lazaro Tuigon: Ko betusiechu ngunon kegere kele kanyolchi kong’alal chi age tugul komwochi lagokyech si ye yosit

ko kakonai tugitayatugul kokochini mali.

Translator: Basi ni heri hata wakati huu watu waendelee kuongea na watu wao, watoto wao, ili hata wakizeeka na kwenda

watakuwa wamewaambia uridhi wa mali yao.

Lazaro Tuigon: Amun kikose betusiechu ngo ru chi komuchi koteb en Mortuary agoi betusiek koteben ole kikisutyi en

mortuary betusiek chechang. Ko kion ko makitinye achek tugen non.

Translator: Hivi sasa kuna ma-case ambayo mtu akifa mwili ukae kwa mortuary kwa muda mwingi, na sisi Tugen hatukuwa

nayo mwanzoni.

Lazaro Tuigon: Tugen ko mache ye ru chi ketupchin korenyiny

Translator: Sisi Tugeni mtu akifa anazikwa pale pale nyumbani kwake.

Lazaro Tuigon: Ko kimwachini bikab betusiechu kelenjini koribei boiyon kaitanyiny ago ribe bikap orenyiny, family.

Translator: Tunataka kusema kwamba, mzee huchunga boma yake, na yeye akikuwa yeye huchungwa na familia yake.

Lazaro Tuigon: Ko ne sirei ko lakwet ne o. Ngotinye chi korusiek aeng’ ko lakwet ne o, kaita ne o, werit ne o ne

mwoito kiy age tugul, ne mwochin kiy age tugul.

Translator: Lakini sana sana mzee anachungwa na yule mvulana wa kwanza kwa hiyo nyumba katika mila ya Tugeni.

Lazaro Tuigon: Ko ngunon kemoche kendona ng’atutik si kole ng’atut ne kiboisien en emoni nyon nebo tugen.

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Translator: Kwa hivyo anatupasa tuweke katika Katiba ili itulinde sisi Tugeni.

Lazaro Tuigon: Ko kimi ku non gong’eten ngap kikilsoti achek ko mokiwole non, tepyei ko u noo.

Translator: Ilikuwa hivyo hivyo tangu tulipozaliwa sisi na akae hivyo hivyo.

Lazaro Tuigon: Ne rubei ko emoni nyon ni bo tugen ko betusiechu ko kitesak bik, matesak emet, ko asome kou imwae

kele kimoche kebar nyalil, kebar kemei, ko mongen ale kiboren nee, asome kou ni, kimoche kebchechi bik imbarenik

che mi emet, kou emoni kibo chumbek at kinye komi bik che motinye mbar agot kitikin, ibinda nebo betusiechu che

mengech, ibindab Kipkoimet ak Kaplelach ko motinye imbar.

Translator: Kwa wakati huu watu wamekuwa wameongezeka wakawa wengi lakini ardhi haijaongezeka na pendekezo ni

kwamba wale watu ambao hawana mashamba watafutiwe mashamba kwa wale wazungu walikuwa wakilima.

Lazaro Tuigon: Alen matotinye chechang’. Chechuk ko chon.

Translator: Yangu ni hayo nimemalizia hapo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante sana Bwana Mandela kwa mawazo yako. Sasa enda huko uweke kidole.

Com. Phoebe Asiyo: Thank you Bwana Mandera, ulisema namna gani ________ (inaudible) Ni nani ulimi yake itakuwa ya

mwisho?

Lazaro Tuigon: Nebo musyondoni kimwae ko chito ne amuane ko chicho, ole kakomwa kole kitupchinon.

Translator: Kwa maiti, kama mwenyewe alikuwa amesema kwamba atazikwa mahali pale itakaa hivyo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante mzee. Samuel Kipngetich, Joseph Cherop, Sasa Bwana Joseph Cherop unaweza kutaja jina

halafu utupatie maoni.

Joseph Cherop: Thank you commissioners, my names are Joseph Cherop. First and foremost I have a written memorandum

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on behalf of Kerio location but I wish to add my personal views.

(1) The constitution should be written in every tribe’s language for example the bible so that every person from each tribe

can be able to read and understand and in addition it should be written in a very simple language.

(2) Cost sharing: Cost sharing as at now has not actually enabled many people to for example acquire medicines from the

hospitals. So my view is that it should be eradicated and the government to provide health care free of charge.

(3) Ministers: I believe that a minister should be elected who should actually have the know how of the ministry concerned

for example if somebody is to be a minister of health, he should be trained in that profession.

(4) The Military: currently or during times of when we do not have war the service of the military should be utilized such

that for example the building of roads and institution like the GSU, we should not be having GSU in council only, they

should be doing something else.

(5) Inheritance: I believe that there should be equal inheritance for both sons and daughters in case where the daughters

are not married.

(6) Parliament: I believe that the term of the current parliament should be extended so that a constitution should be in place

before any elections are made. Thank you very much.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Asante sana. Hapa kuna announcement ningelipenda kufanya, imeandikwa kuna mtu amepoteza barua

ambayo imeandikwa Margaret Ebiogon Chepkonga from Eritrea. Please pass it to Mr. Wilson Kiptisya. Tutamuita mutu wa

mwisho kwa orodha yetu naye ni Charles Toroitich.

Charles Toroitich: Asante sana, mimi naitwa Charles Toroitich natoka Kapchekuow sublocation Simu location. Michango

yangu kuhusu Katiba ni mambo mawili ama matatu.

Ya kwanza ni juu ya President. Kenya hii President vile Katiba iko saa hii vile inaendelea, kuanzia President, PC, PS mpaka

chief mpaka assistant chief, hawa ni kama wako na title deed hata ya maisha yako. Tungetaka Katiba ambayo wananchi

wenyewe wanaweza kuamua mambo yao. Kwa sababu saa hii hakuna kitu tunafanya. President can decide anything. Kama

anataka kupeana hii office yote atapeana. Kama hata wewe bwana commissioner leo President akiamua mambo yako, hakuna

kitu unasema. Kwa hivyo tungetaka Katiba ambayo which is more responsive to the citizens of the country. Kama wananchi

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wangeamua namna hiyo, itakuwa mzuri.

Ya pili: Bwana commissioners kuna mambo ya elimu katika nchi hii. Elimu ya nchi hii wanachi wanachangia wanafanya

harambee, wanauza mali yao, wanasomesha watoto wao, serikali pia wanafanya hivyo, mwisho hatuna guarantee ya kwamba

hata mtoto wako akipita namna gani wazazi ama wananchi wa nchi hii watafaidika juu ya hiyo elimu. So we have got at no

place, we are almost getting on hopeless society. Kwa hivyo tungetaka Katiba ambayo inampatia wanavijana wa Kenya hii

surety ya kwamba wakimaliza elimu yao at least wako na kitu they are assured of life, wanajua wataoa wakati mmoja,

wataoana, watakuwa na manyumba, hata mtu atakuwa na gari. So ikikuwa na hopeless society, itakuwa namna gani? Katiba

iangalie vitu kama hizo.

Ya tatu: Ni mambo ya health – mambo ya afya: Commissioners, mnajua dunia hii maisha inaanza kuwa ngumu. Sasa

tukiendelea kama vile tunaendelea saa hii, cost sharing ya hospitali, sasa inaonyesha ya kwamba, kama huna pesa, uko na

surety ya kwamba mambo yako imeisha. Si ndio? Kwa sababu huna pesa. Huwezi uka-afford hospitali, so tunataka Katiba

ile inakuja, tuwe na tax kama ile ya county council ya juzi, walikuwa wanasema service charge. Hiyo ilikuwa ya councillors,

there was nothing, it was a useless thing. So tuwe na kitu kama health ya ile inatake care of health kama hii ya saa hii ya

National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) ili ikuwe accountable na iwe accessible to all the citizens of the country in governance

of the financial whatever, hiyo inasaidia.

Hii iwe ya elimu tena. Tuwe tu-create a tax kama hiyo ya petroleum levy. Hii watu wanasema ni ya barabara, sijui inatuwekea

mafuta, tuweke kodi kwa Katiba ili inacater for education ya all citizens of Kenya. Halafu kila mtu aende shule, watu

waendelee namna hiyo.

Ya mwisho kwa sababu yangu ni machache sana, Commissioners asante sana. Ya mwisho ni mambo ya Local Authorities in

Kenya. Hii mambo ya local authorities ukiangalia Baringo County Council, Baringo County Council ingawa kuna macouncillors

wengi hapa, na sitaki iwe siasa, hii leo ni ya Katiba. Baringo County Council, hakuna kitu ya kufanya hapa, inacollect charges

hapa, nini nini, nini, ukweli yake ni kwamba everyday, si wanasema hakuna pesa, sijui nini, sijui nini, but our resources are very

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important. We do a lot to them. Tunataka councils iwe accountable na kama haiwezekani local government authority iwe

transferred to the central government. Halafu badget iwe ikifanywa kama zile za ministries. Badget ikifanywa watakuwa

accountable. Walipwe kama MPs. Councillors everything to be gathered kwa sababu ninasema hivo kwa sababu ukiangalia

nursery schools in Kenya, Pre-schools, serikali wanasema ooh wanataka watoto waende course, waende nini, waende abroad

school, mwisho, how do you train people when you cannot pay them? When you cannot even employ them? It is irritable.

Tunaangalia councils kama Narok County Council the richest in this country. Malindi, sasa hata ______ rahisi kuchimba choo.

So hi mambo yao, iwe hii taxes yote ile tunaokota hapa ipelekwe Nairobi, central government halafu central government

wanabadget kwa hawa. Mambo inaweza kuwa mzuri. Kenya inakaa safi. Mwisho, commissioner ni mambo ya udogo.

Com. Pastor Ayonga: Mwisho kabisa sasa.

Charles Toroitich: Hiyo ni mwisho kabisa, How do we own land in this country? Yaani tunapata udogo kwa njia gani?

Nilikuwa nimeanza ku-ask mapema title deed. One person can own, anaweza kupatia wewe shamba, anaweza kukunyang’

anya, now, tungetaka namna hii: kwa Katiba ya wakati huu, Katiba ile tunatengeneza saa hii, tuone ya kwamba at least if you

are a Kenyan by birth, by naturalization or whatever, you have a right to owning land in this country. So ukiwa na right ya kuwa

na land, then you are sure hii ni nchi yako. Otherwise ukipata mtu anakuwa chokora hapa hana kitu, analala verandah na

unaambiwa yeye ni mtu wa Kenya. Afadhali mwisho hatungetumia hiyo kwa siasa wakati wa kura unaingia, unaambia yeye

Hoo hoo,

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Nilikuwa nataka kujua, kwanza ungelipenda kuweka kiasi gani maanake kuna pahali ingine tuliambiwa

kuwe na ceiling ama minimum ile mtu anatakiwa awe nayo, acre tatu, acre mbili, nitataka kujua maximum ownership ya land iwe

ni kiasi gani?

Ya pili, ukisema kila Kenyan awe na shamba ama awe na plot, je itapeanwa bure na serikali ama unataka hiyo sheria iandikwe

namna gani? Na nikizaliwa kama vile ulivyosema ukiwa Kenyan uwe guaranteed right to own land, hiyo guarantee itatokea

namna gani? Yaani serikali ndio ipatie watu mashamba bila malip ama nini? Ungefafanua hapa hivi.

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Charles Toroitich: Asante sana, kwa upande wa mashamba, najua kweli watu wanaongezeka, shamba haiongezeki, at least

some minimum you have something to own, na ni ya serikali, it should be free. Hiyo iwe free, kama unatoka Kakamega, unajua

DC ako Kakamega ata chief yako, na unajua serikali iko, unapewa kitu kidogo. Maximum – the most …. If you have a

hundred, ukiwa na acre elfu moja, kuna mtu anaweza kuwa na acre elfu moja na ile anatumia ni mia mbili. Hii mia nane, kwani

alizaliwa namna gani? Kwa hivyo maximum two. Sisi tuko 30 million saa hii na Kenya ni kubwa sana. Bado iko mzuri. Hata

mtu akipata tu acre tano tano, hii sio mbaya

Com. Wambua: Maximum five acres:

Charles Toroitich: Yes, maximum for kuna land purpose. Kuna hawa watu wana.

Interjection

Com. Wambua: Minimum 5 acres.

Charles Toroitich: I’m sorry please, minimum ni 5 acres. Maximum can be as much as you can utilize. Unaweza kuwa na

shamba, unapanda vitu kama kahawa ukiwa Nyeri ama Kiambu. Large scale farm.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay tumeelewa sana hapo bwana Toroitich. Asante sana, thank you very much kwa yako ambao

mazuri kabisa. Sasa tumepata mwingine tulikuwa huyo ndiye wa mwisho lakini tumepata mwingine Wesley Cherop. Ako

wapi? Alikuwa amechelewa kidogo lakini tutampa nafasi. Cherop taja jina hapo na utupatie maoni kwa kifupi. Sasa kabla

hatujaanza na Cherop, kuna mtu hapa ambaye alijiaandiksha na hajaitwa kutoa maoni? Wako wapi? Waje hapa mbele.

Wapatie nafasi hapo. Wapatieni nafasi hapa tumalize na hawa ndio… hapo hapo hapo ndio niwambie vile tutafanya tafadhalini.

Hata mama? Mama ndiye utaanza. Mama wewe ndiye utaanza kama unataka kutoa maoni. Kwa hivyo Basi hawa sasa ndio

tutamalizia na wao. Wa mwisho ambaye alikuwa amejiandikisha hapa ni Bwana Cherop. Kwa hivyo tutaanza na Bwana

Cherop halafu ndio sasa tutaanza na mama pande ile, halafu tuje namna hii tuishie hapa. Na mkija hapa tafadhalini mseme yale

ambayo ya kusemwa. Kama jambo limezungumzia na limetajwa na likaingia kwa machine na tumeandika, usirudie. Lakini kama

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ni kuja tu kusema hiyo jambo ni moto moja lazima tulitaje, taja tu kwa nusu dakika halafu tumalize. Kwa hivyo Cherop endelea

hapo halafu tumuite mama.

Wesley Cherop: Asante sana mimi ni Wesley Cherop. Bwana commissioner kile itu mimi ninasema, asante kwa kukuja

tarafa ya Kabartonjo kusikia maoni ya wanachi. Sisi ni watu young bus tunangojea vile nyinyi uamuzi yenu inaenda. Basi maoni

ile kitu mimi nataka kusema, ni maneno ya kazi watu wakimaliza shule, wako nyumbani, wameingia kwa maneno ya busaa,

pombe, nimi, na

Interjection:

Com. P. M. Wambua: Unataka je?

Wesley Cherop: Kitu ile mimi nataka ni kama iko vacancy ama kazi yeyote ile wanaweza pata, waandikwe.

Maanake Katiba ya sasa, mimi nasikia ______ aseme namna gani, lakini mimi naona sisis tumekuwa tukijali nini, nini, kwa

sababu uchumi umeenda chini saa ingine.

Com. P. M. Wambua: (inaudible)

Wesley Cherop: Ya pili kitu ile mimi ninasema, kuna watu wameandikwa Kenya. Wako sasa wanafanya kazi wako over age

almost 60 years, 65 years, 55 years, na siku ingine wako nyumbani. Wawe waende retire wahesabiwe pesa yao waende

nyumbani na wengine waandikwe.

Com. P. M. Wambua: hawa ni old turks?

Wesley Cherop: Ee old turks.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Unataka waondoke au anmna gani?

Wesley Cherop: Waondoke ndio young turks waigie.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay, jambo la tatu Bwana Cherop.

Wesley Cherop: Jambo la tatu tunataka maneno ya shamba: Kuna mtu amesema maneno ya shamba lakini mimi sioni kama

hiyo shamba iko kwa sababu wakubwa wakubwa wamechukuwa hiyo mashamba – almost one thousand acres, two million

acres lakini mtu anachukua hiyo?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ungelipenda tufanye nini?

Wesley Cherop: Hiyo, proposal yangu sasa ni hiyo maneno ya shamba hiyo, kama hii Katiba inasema ikiwa mtu hasemi nini,

yangu mimi binafsi, mimi ni mtu wa Kenya na nimezaliwa Kenya. Hatutaki maneno ya kula watu wanakula mbele halafu mabaki

inaingia hapa.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Cherop tupatie proposal. Ungelipenda tufanye nini?

Cherop: Tubadirishe vitu ziwe new. Kama unakuwa

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Nataka kufuatilia jambo hii la shamba, ulisema haiwezekani maanake wakubwa wako na wamechukua

na hakuna. Ungelipenda tufanye nini kwa hiyo jambo? Tuambie.

Cherop: Hiyo proposal ni kama imepangwa, kama ni Baringo, apate kama acre tuseme elfu hamsini, aende kwa wenye

hawajiwezi. Kama ni mtu hajiwezi hana shamba, apewe hata two and half acres, five acres, hiyo ndio itasaidia hawa.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Cherop, wewe unapendekeza ikiwa kuna ardhi inatolewa wasipewe matajiri, wapewe watu

wanaositahili kupewa kwa sababu hawana ardhi.

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Cherop: Ya.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Basi

Cherop: Ipewe wenye hawajiwezi, halafu hao maofficers wanatumia pesa, watumie pesa, kama ni shamba, alete shamba

pande hii.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Jambo la nne.

Cherop: Ya nne ni maneno ya ufisadi (corruption)

Com. P. M. Wambua: Endelea.

Cherop: Mimi nilikuwa Nairobi hata mimi. Nilisikia vile watu wanaongea sio watu – tusema hawa watu wameokoka, kube

hakuna wakubwa. Vile mimi nataka ni kusaidiana. Kama ni mwingine ako na cheo fulani fulani mahali fulani wasaidie wengine.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Proposal ni nini hapo?

Cherop: Ya hapo ni kusema hii mabadiriko ya …………. Eh eh

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ujue inarecordiwa tu. Tupatie proposal.

Cherop: Sasa, kitu iko kwa upande wa kwetu hapa tuko nyuma sana. Hiyo mashamba serikali imetusongesha mpaka

imemaliza shamba kabisa. Hakuna shamba. Hata nikikupeleka saa hii Bwana commissioner huko nyumbani kwangu mimi

napanda wimbi na sijui kama nitaweza kula mwaka huu kwa sababu hakuna _______.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ulimaliza mambo ya land ukasema serikali ihakikishe kwamba wale ambao hawana mashamba

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wamepewa, halafu kutoka kwa shamba, ukaingia kwa corruption, ukasema ufisadi, sasa ukataja ufisadi na ukarudi kwa

mashamba, ufisadi unasema tufanye nini? Corruption?

Com. Abubakar Zein: tena ukasema ulienda Nairobi ukakuta watu wengine wanasema wameokoka lakini hakuna wokofu?

Cherop: Yee, hakuna wokofu, kwa sababu end of tape 4 side A

Ufisadi haiko ndio tupate hata kazi.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Haya, ya tano bwana. Kuna lingine lolote umebakisha?

Cherop: Ya mwisho ni maneno ya general election. Ilisemekana ati inafanyiwa mwisho ya mwaka huu na tumesikia inafanywa.

Kitu ile mimi nataka ni ifanywe the end of this year kwa sababu itaenda mpaka mwisho wa mwezi wa tatu kwa nini?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kwa hivyo election ifanywe mwaka huu?

Cherop: Mwaka huu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: December?

Cherop: Yes, ifanywe.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Basi, ya sita bwana.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Alisema ni la mwisho.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Lile lilikuwa la mwisho?

Cherop: Eee.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Haya basi tumeandika hiyo election on time December.

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Cherop: Isiende mbele.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Haya. Asante sana bwana Cherop. Mama tafadhali kuja hapa. Taja jina na utwambie yale ambao

hayakusemwa. Kama yanalingana na akina mama tutajie tafadhali.

Priscah Chepsengei: Kwa majina mimi ni mama Prisca Chepsenge. Bwana commissioner sir nitazungumza kwa kilugha.

Priscah Chepsengei: Amwae commissioner alenchini ne amache kinde Katiba ko en achek Tugen, desturi yetu nebo

Tugen ko wakati msichana, wakati tunaenda kupoza msichana, ko Commissioner ko kimoche kende Katiba kele sait

ne kakibe kebe koito, ko ye kakebe koito ko kimoche kende Katiba amun ye kibe koito ko moginoe kele tos wo kotun

weri chebi anan ko mayachin harusi ko kimache kele sait nebo koito kinde Katiba kele nyoru certificate kony’eten sait

no bo koito.

Translator: Tungetaka kwa mila yetu wakati tunapo-oa kama vijana, wazee wanaenda kwa pale msichana yuko na

wanaongea na wanaelewana. Na tunapenda Katiba ieleze kwamba siku hiyo wakati hiyo agreement inafanywa hata certificate

ifanywe kwa sababu ni masikizano ya kamili.

Priscah Chepsengei: Amun ki kere kele saisiek alak kimoche kende Katiba ku non amun sait age ngwo lakwet

komuche agot ye kakeba ng’alekab divorce kemuche ke-divorcen ak kowo buch ama kinae kele tos betut ne kikibendi

koito ko kikisir nee, so kimoche kinde Katiba kou non.

Translator: Nasema hivyo kwa sababu, mara baada ya muda huyu mume anataka kufanya divorce lakini wakitaka kujua

wakati ule walifanya kuposa mtoto, agreement ilifanywa namna gani, haielezwi, kwa hivyo inaleta tatizo.

Priscah Chepsengei: Ya pili amache amwa agobo kinde Katiba ng’alekab wazee anan boisiet. Betusiechu kekere kele

king’et muren ko bisto responsibilities chekwache cheyoe en gaa, kobibisyi kityo wamama. Ingen kole mi lagok,

kiyagik, mi tugul tugul che katoyoei, mi agot karwa ne katokerei, mi kasisiek tugul chebo muren ko lakini mi tuguk che

mayaei mama, che mamagat en sheria chechok chebo Tugen lakini kikere saisiek alak motun agot isoru chepyoso ile

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kilany kosyep kot ago kilen keshep kot ko ma sheria chechok cho.

So kimoche kende Katiba kele muren age tugul ne ingen kole a chi muren ne murenot koyai kasinyin komamge ak

murenotenyin.

Translator: Kulingana na mila yetu kuna mambo ambayo kazi ambazo mume hufanya kwa nyumba kama kuzeeka nyumba

kupanda juu na mama _____ lakini kwa wakati huyu wazee wamewacha kazi zao – hizi responsibilities zao. Tungetaka Katiba

ieleze kinaganaga vile wazee lazima wafanye halafu akina mama wasiende kufanya ile kazi halafu mila isiwaruhusu.

Priscah Chepsengei: Nebo somok ko amache amwa upande wa wamama amache amwa ale wakati ne mi uchaguzi

nebo wamama, amache amwachi wama alenji wakati huo kemoche keroo mama ne kichakwani ko mama ne tinye

mfano mzuri kong’eten gaa agoi ne ribe lagokyik, korib boisionikyik en gaa, kemuche huyu mama kemuche koek

kiongozi ne kararan amu iborto mfano ne kararan. Si makibe ngemi katikati olon ye kiro ne kilachge, keo netinye

rabia, kekwai anan keroo ne tinye kaitanywan kook, kekwai kou kaitanywan. Kimoche kekwai mama ne tinye mfano

kong’eten gaa ako family che chiche komi gaa tugul.

Translator: Tungetaka Katiba ieleze vizuri uchaguzi wa uongozi ya akina mama. Kwamba mama ambaye atachaguliwa kuwa

kiongozi ni mama mwenye heshima, mwenye nadhili nzuri ambaye anahesimiwa nyumbani ambaye akitegeleza wajibo

anategeneza ile inapendwa. Si kwamba waone wale ambao wamejifaa vizuri wale wana watu wao, labda na wanatoka kwa

ukubwa, hao wanatoka mahali wamesoma, Ee, apana, lakini ni mama yule ambaye ana hekina anastahili kuongoza.

Priscah Chepsengei: Thank you very much sir.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Nilikuwa naambiwa ianze kule inaishia hapa, sasa wewe unaanza huku . Mzee utaje jina, halafu

utuambie maneno yale ambayo hakusemwa hapa, yale mapya.

Jacob Cheptaalam: Mimi ninaitwa Jacob Cheptalam. Mwachi anyun kole ko en ng’akekab katiba ko kikimi achek

koroni komite bik alak che kilelach. Kou ye kokwan commissioners, kimi bik alak che lelach koroni.

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Translator: Kama vile nyinyi wanacommissioner mumefika hapa leo, mimi nilipokuwa mdogo niliona wale walikuwa

wazungu, watu weupe walikuwa upande huu.

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ko en yoton ko kikiyochin achek kasit.

Translator: Tulikuwa tukiwafanyia kazi.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Fanya hivi mzee, hata wewe, just get the idea which he want to communicate to us, translate and tell

him what we want is proposals. Atupatie proposals in respect of issues which have not been stated here. Ako na dakika mbili

na moja imeenda.

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ilenchin ng’olyondet ne amache, ne kaker ko ng’alekab fees.

Translator: Jambo ambalo ninatka nilitaje ni juu ya fees – karo za shule

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ilenchin kelipan fees raini ko kito ne korom.

Translator: Ulipanji wa karo ya shule imekuwa jambo ngumu sana upande huu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Mwambie mzee kuna watu wamekuja hapa wakapendekeza kwamba elimu iwe ya bure. Yeye

anataka nini? Ungependa iwe ya bure?

Jacob Cheptaalam: Kakomwa bik alak

Translator: Ndio.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Basi hiyo imeingia. Mpaka darasa gani? Au mpaka university?

Jacob Cheptaalam: ikiwezekana iwe mpaka university.

Translator:

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Na ya pili?

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ya pili ko boisiekyok, chemi kazi asikobwa gaa…

Translator: Jambo la pili ni wazee watendaji kazi lakini wameenda retire huko nyumbani.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo sasa tuliisikia tukaambiwa kwamba retirees wale ambao wametoka kazini na wamefanya retire

wachungwe, wapewe allowances mpaka wafe. Unataka kuongezea?

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ndio, mimi nataka kuongeza hapo. Saidia hawa.

Translator:

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo imeingia . Ya tatu mzee.

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ya tatu ko ng’alekab kirwokik. Kirwogik ko amune si ma konech kekwai echek eng yu.

Translator: Kwa nini tusipewe jukumu la kuwajiri chiefs?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo sasa nilisema, na watu wakasema hapa na tumeandika chiefs na assistant chiefs wachaguliwe na

watu N kama wafanye, na tena wafanye kwa mlolongo wakionekana mchana. Unataka iingie hiyo? Kuna lingine?

Jacob Cheptaalam: Ingine Ni hayo tu

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana. Jiandikishe hapa tafadhali. Sasa kijana utataja jina na utwambie yale ambayo

hayakusomwa.

Fred Kibet: Kwa jina ni Fred Kibet.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kama ni kuongezea ile tunasema kuongezea uzitu, useme nimekuja kuongezea uzito na yangu ni hii, hii,

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na ile basi.

Fred Kibet: Yale yamesemwa hatutaongezea uzito, nitasema tu zingine.

Com. P. M. Wambua: haya asante sana. Sema jina tafadhali kwanza.

Fred Kibet: Fred Kibet, Yangu ya kwanza mimi naonelea siku ya campaign kwa bunge ama councillors wasitumie pesa kwa

sababu ni kama kupeana hongo. Mpaka unabadirisha akili ya mwenye angetaka kuchaua mtu. Na hiyo isitumiwe pesa hata

kidogo

Com. P. M. Wambua: Sawa.

Fred Kibet: Ya pili, saa ile tuseme mtu amefanya makosa, officer akitumwa asike yeye asitumie nguvu. Ashike kwa heshima,

kama ako na watoto wake kama wanakula, askari akuje tu pole pole, akuje aombe ruhusa amwambie iko report anatakikana

afikishe huko lakini sio kushika yeye mpaka watoto washtuke wapate heart failure, amshike pole pole.

Ya tatu ni political parties. Tusione party ingine ni adui tuseme KANU kama upande mwingine hakuna (ni kama marafiki tu)

tusione party ingine kama ni mbaya kuliko party ingine. Yote ni yetu kwa Kenya.

Ya nne ni elimu: unakuta mtu amepita ako na points nzuri lakini hawezi kufika university kwa sababu hana pesa Lakini unakuta

akikutana na mtu mwenye ako na pesa, pengine ako na C- anaenda private university na kesho ni graduate. Sasa mimi

ningeonelea Wakenya tutakosa mean grade tukifanya hivyo.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Sasa unataka je?

Fred Kibet: Nataka tuseme graduate should be kama ni B ikuwe B. So long as hata kama ako na pesa ama asikuwe na

pesa, asiingie university kama ako na less grade.

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Ingine ya mwisho ni malipo kwa wafanyi kazi: Tuseme certificate, a certificate skill B skill iwe karibu equal kwa kila ministry

hata parastatals. Sio ati mtu akiwa security anashinda mtu mwenye alienda _______ kwa ingine. Salary scale ikuwe sawa per

certificate.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kuna na jambo nataka kujua, umesema ile arrest, iwe na heshima. Kuna pahali ilitajwa ya kwamba ni

mzuri kama mtu anajulikana. Ukija hapa, sasa unakaa hapa na unaishi hapa na unajulikana kama umefanya makosa, vile

inatakiwa kufanyika ni chief ama yule mzee wa mtaa anaambiwa, mwambie fulani anje kwa police station. Ungependelea

hivyo?

Fred Kibet: Si hivyo,

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ungependelea ashikwe tu lakini ashikwe kwa heshima.

Fred Kibet: Police akuje tu kama ako na watu sio ati ashikwe kama anakula hata kama hajamaliza kula, Sasa ni hayo tu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana. Yako yalikuwa mageni kweli. Mzee tupatie mageni pia ambayo hatukuyasikia tangu

asubuhi. Taja jina na uendelee.

Paul Cheptoo: Kwa majina naitwa Paul Cheptoo kutoka sublocation ya Kabtele na ile kitu mimi ninasema ile haijasemwa na

watu ni haya:

Kuna watu walikuwa wanaishi especially kwa dani ya forest, waliacha watu wao, na manyumba yao ilichomwa na hawana

shamba mahali inging. Kwa hivyo ningeomba kwa hii sheria ya constitution, watu hao warundikshwe mahali walikuwa wanaishi

kwa kuchunga watu wao wale waliwachia wajukuu au mababu yao.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Warundi pahali walitoka huko kwa misitu ama wapewe pahali pengine pakuishi?

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Paul Cheptoo: Warundi mahali walikuwa wana ishi maana hapa kwisha a_____________________ mashamba yao. Kwa

sababu hata sasa wameteseka. Hawana mahali popote wanakaa, wanakaa tu kwa manyumba ya watu wengine.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hata ikiwa ni kwa misitu warudi huko?

Paul Cheptoo: Yes, warudi mahali walikuwa wamezaliwa.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Lakini nisaidie mzee, shamba liko dani ya msitu?

Paul Cheptoo: Yes, tangu babu ya mababu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Okay, hiyo tumesikia, jiandikishe hapa Bwana Cheptoo. Ni kama wanaongezeka, walikuwa watatu

sasa ni …

Paul Cheptoo: Kuna kitu ingine ningependekeza, sijui kama hiyo kitu imeingia vizuri, unaoma kijana anaweza kwenda kwa

mzee fulani, anachukua msichana (kama vile yule mama alikuwa amesema hapa) halafu baadaye anafukuza yule msichana

anarudi kwa wazazi na ako na watoto. Mtu kama huyu ningeonelea afuatwe maana anajaribu kutesa watoto.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hayo mzee alisema lakini umeyatia moto kwa hivyo asante sana bwana Cheptoo. Anayefuata hapo.

Taja jina Fred halafu utuambie mapya.

Michael Cheptumo: Kwa majina ni Michel Cheptumo, kutoka hapo Simu Location. Mimi naenda tu straight forward kwa

point ile niliandika hapa. Yangu zaidi ni juu ya ugawaji wa utajiri. Natoa upande moja – kwa wafanyi biashara tu. Tuko na

mhindi ambaye yuko na wholesale kubwa, amebeba kila kitu, P______ iko huko, majani iko huko, chumvu iko huko, sukari,

kila kitu, so mimi ningeomba commission iwekwe kwa Katiba ya kwamba usawa ya utajiri tugawe. Mtu wa kusupply sukari

awe mtu mmoja, ugawaji wa chumvu iwe mtu mmoja, ugawaji wa majani iwe kitu moja, Halafu isibebe pesa zetu kwa mtu

mmoja. Ukiangalia karibu kwa wholesale zote katika tarafa yetu ya Kabartonjo, hawa hata Sheik mwenyewe, utakuta ni mtu

mmoja tu anabeba kila kitu na kuna watu wengi walienda retire na wako na pesa chungu mzima wamekosa kitu ya kufanyia.

Nataka kwanza hii

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo tumesikia.

Michael Cheptumo: Imesemwa?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo tumeisikia na imeingia tayari.

Michael Cheptumo: Asante. Ya pili, nataka mambo ya jua kali. Nataka pesa za jua kali ile inatolewa na serikali ipelekwe

moja kwa moja kwa division. Halafu wana kamati wa jua kali wa division wagawane hiyo pesa kwa ili members wa division

wafaulu kwa biashara yao. Lakini kitu ingine, kuna pesa ikitolewa kutoka kwa serikali inaenda kwa mtu binafsi. Tunaambiwa

ya kwamba kuna mtu anaitwa NGO anakuja kusimamia ile pesa, Sasa kusimamia hiyo pesa, unaona haina usawa, unaangalia

line ingine unaangalia line ingine na kwa kila ingine, maoni yangu ni hii pesa iletwe tu moja kwa moja kwa wale registered to a

division. Isimamiwe na division.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Pesa ya serikali, ngoja ngoja mzee wangu, unasema pesa ya serikali huenda kutolewa kwa serikali

ikapelekewa NGO igawanyiwe watu?

Michael Cheptumo: Nasema hivi, hii pesa ikitolewa kwa serikali ipelekwe (kama hata juzi imetangazwa) pesa ile itapatiwa

NGO halafu wapate kuja kusimamia,

Com. Abubakar Zein: Ndio nakuuliza mzee wangu, wewe unasema, kuna wakati pesa ya serikali inatoka kwa serikali

inaenda kwa NGO

Michael Cheptumo: Ni mfano kama hii ya KMF. Ililetwa kutoka kali, Batiwa division Kabartonjo kwa jua kali.

Com. Abubakar Zein: Kenya Management Assistant Programme?

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Michael Cheptumo: Yah, so sisi tunaomba serikali iwekwe katika Katiba pesa iletwe kwa division. Thank you very much.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Asante sana bwana Chetumo. Naona hapo unabeba memorandum,

James Kiprop: I will just read it briefly.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Usisome, utatwambia yale ambayo hayakusemwa tafadhali. Tutaenda kuyasoma yote yale hakuna

kitu tutabakisha hapo. Yale ambayo hayakusemwa tafadhali.

James Kiprop: My names are James Kiprop. My views are as follows:

The provincial administration in Kenya should be scrapped and their powers be given to the Local Government.

The administration police post should also be scrapped and their duties be handed over the police to avoid implication of

services.

Human rights commission should be formed in Kenya and be given the power to prosecute those who abuse other people’s

rights.

Another one, the judiciary should confide a way of protecting those poor and illiterate Kenyans in court because these people

can be charged unfairly.

Councillors and mayors should be chosen directly by the people.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo ilisemwa, endelea.

James Kiprop: Death sentense should be abolished in Kenya.

Anti corruption commission should be formed and Kenya and be given the boss to investigate and prosecute

If a Kenyan citizen is illegally arrested and subjected to unfair treatment in a police cell, he should be compensated.

Traditional brews should be legalized as a way of preserving our African culture and at the same time assist those Kenyans who

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cannot afford to buy the commercial brews.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Endelea

James Kiprop: The last point is that the parliament as we near the general election, the parliament should not be extended

because we are sure that we are going to chose leaders who will continue with the same duties like the current parliament.

Thank you and his honour.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Thank you very much Bwana Kiprop. Sasa tuko wa mwisho, Utataja jina na tafadhali huyu ndiye

atakuwa wa mwisho kabisa atufungie kikao. Yale ambao hayakutajwa ndio utatuambia mzee. Maanake kama yametajwa

tayari, yameingia na tumeyaandika.

Ruto Kipkemei: Mimi niliingia nyuma mimi sijui kama imetajwa kwa hivyo nitasema tu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Nitakwambia, utasema na mi nitakueleza. Endelea.

Ruto Kipkemei: Kwa majina ni Ruto Kipkemei kutoka Barto division. Jambo la kwanza ni jambo

Ruto Kipkemei: Kwanza, ko netai, ko mi ng’olyon ne amache amwa agobo ng’alekab imbarenik.

Tlanslator: Jambo nataka kuliguzia ni juu ya mashamba.

Ruto Kipkemei: Kingenyoru uhuru,

Tlanslator:

Com. Abubakar Zein: Mzee wangu, asubuhi tulipoaanza, tuliambia watu, historia ya Kenya sisi tunaifahamu vizuri, kuja kwa

mzungu, kunyang’anywa kwa ardhi zetu, kupata uhuru, yote hayo tunayajua. Ngoja mzee wangu, wewe tupe mapendekezo

yako tu, kile unataka tutie dani ya Katiba. Kama ni ardhi sema nataka ardhi hivi na hivi na hivi.

Ruto Kipkemei: Amache imbare ne kiib serkali en forest kolenchon kiliboni

Tlanslator: Kuna shamba ambalo serikali ilichukua kwa forest, nikaambia italipwa.

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Ruto Kipkemei: Kosir kole kikuren right holder.

Tlanslator: Serikali ikaandikwa inaitwa right holder.

Ruto Kipkemei: Kenyisiek sosom che kakosirto.

Tlanslator: Miaka therathine zilizopita.

Ruto Kipkemei: Ago ngunon togonye amache imbarenyun.

Tlanslator: Mpaka sasa bado nangojea. Basi nahitaji shamba hili

Ruto Kipkemei: Konyo koker imbarenon kwangen ole mi mbarenon kwa amache ameny imbarenyun.

Tlanslator: Na nisipopata shamba ninajua mahali shamba liko na nitaenda kuishi.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kuna watu walikuja hapa wakasema, shamba la mtu likichukuliwa na serikali kutumiwa kwa mambo

ya public, yule ambaye alikuwa mwenye shamba apewe compensation, pesa ama apewe shamba lingine. Angelipenda hayo

yafanyike?

Ruto Kipkemei: Amache kou non keleliban, agot ndo kilibonon ko so so.

Tlanslator: Nataka hivyo hivyo ata kama nilipwe au nipewe mahali pengine ni sawa.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo imeingia sasa. Aende kwa number la pili.

Ruto Kipkemei: Ya pili awendi agobo kirwok.

Tlanslator: Ya pili nataka kuguzia juu ya chiefs.

Ruto Kipkemei: Ki keny ko kisirei raia kirwok.

Tlanslator: Zamani raia walikuwa wakiandikisha machief.

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Com. P. M. Wambua: Watu wengi walikuja hapa wakasema wanataka chiefs na assistant chiefs wawe wanachaguliwa na

watu na wafanywe kwa mlolongo jinsi ilivyokuwa inafanywa hapo awali. Angelipenda hivyo?

Ruto Kipkemei: Ko non.

Tlanslator: Asante

Ruto Kipkemei: Ko ya tatu, neso somok ko amache sukul somanet, amache kesoman kong’eten kilas nebo sisit agoi

university ko ker serkali kole libandano, memuche bik kolipan.

Tlanslator: Ya tatu nataka masomo shuleni

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kuna watu walikuja hapa wakasema wanataka elimu ipeanwe bure na serikali mpaka university. Hiyo

iliingia?

Ruto Kipkemei: Free agoi University.

Tlanslator: Ni hivo, alikuwa anataka.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Angalia kwa karatasi kama kuna lingine. Chukua muda uangalie.

Ruto Kipkemei: Kerichek.

Tlanslator: Mambo ya madawa.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kulikuwa na watu walikuja hapa wakasema wanataka ziwe bure kwa kila mkenya.

Ruto Kipkemei: Nebo mwisho ko barabara.

Tlanslator: Jambo la mwisho ni mabarabara.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Nilisikia hapa watu wanasema mabarabara yatengenezwe ndio wale watu ambao wako huko kwa

mashinani wafikiwe – infrastructure ikataja. Atataka hivo ama anataka vingine? Mazao yao wauze kwa urahisi.

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Ruto Kipkemei: Kimoche kou non.

Tlanslator: Atataka hivyo hivyo.

Ruto Kipkemei: Nebo let ko komen.

Tlanslator: Jambo la mwisho ni pombe. Nataka kukuuzia pombe.

Ruto Kipkemei: Mi komen che kikosoror raini.

Tlanslator: Na pombe ambayo imeingia wakati huyu.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo pia imetajwa. Kuna chupa dogo cha plastic zile whisky zile zinauzwa haraka haraka ziondolewe

zipigwe marufuku.

Ruto Kipkemei: Chon che amache.

Tlanslator: Hata hivyo akasema hata ile ya kienyenji pia ipigwe marufuku.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Basi, kwa hivyo tutapata wa mwisho ambaye ni rafiki yetu hapa. Na yeye pia atafupisha maneno

manake nasikia ako na memorandum, lakini kwa record huwa atataja jina liingie kwa machine halafu utupatie kwa ufupi tu.

Umesikia vile tumefanya, yale ambayo yametajwa yasirudiwe. Taja yale ya muhimu ambayo ni mapya halafu utupatie

memorandum.

Nathaniel Barmotio: My names are Nathaniel Barmotio. Mainly I will touch on education. On free education there is a

problem kwa hii mambo ya burseries. If possible we form a special unit in every district which will be seing into the burseries

whether they have gone to the right children.

There is also the issue of format of taking students to colleges. In the former system when somebody was good in languages he

could go directly for courses in languages. People who were good in science went for science but now the ministries are trying

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to say that schools are doing very poor in languages and yet there are many students who are good in languages but they have

given them restrictions. They may say they need somebody who will speak languages, who have passed in all the languages

plus mathematics. What is the use of that mathematics and yet that person will not come and teach mathematics for life. So

they should change the format that we should have colleges for languages and colleges for other pagadies for diploma and any

other courses.

Lastly is what I’m shortening. I had done some others in the memorandum. Lastly because of the cost of life, you find that

people are complaining on the issues of fees. One method, I was thinking that if possible we introduce day secondary schools

so that our people will be able to pay their fees easily and people will be able to take their children to secondary schools by

introduction of paying secondary school. Thanks.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hayo kweli ni mafupi kabisa na yamefaa kwa hivyo asante sana jiadikishe hapa na utupatie

memorandum. Kuna mtu hapa ambaye ako na mapya. I’m talking of new things which have not been said. Kwa hivyo huyu

ataenda pale na akienda hapo ahakikishe yale ambayo ameyataja ni mapya. Tutayasikia hayo mapya. Shika hii na uendelee.

Philemon Kirui: Commissioners asante. Yangu ni mapya lakini sitasema mengi kwa sababu naona muda umeenda, saa

imeenda, yangu tu ningependa kusema kwamba katika hii Katiba ya sasa ambaye …. Jina langu ni Philemon Kirui. Tume ya

Katiba ya sasa isije tena ikafanya kosa kama ile ya mwaka ishirini na tatu ya Lanchaster. Hii shida tunayo sasa si ya leo,

mambo ya Katiba ilikuwa Lanchasta 1963 na viongozi hapa Kenya walienda Lanchesta wakarudi na hiyo Katiba kutoka

Lanchesta na kufika hapa sijui ile Katiba ilifanya namna gani. Na siyo ajabu, hata hii ya leo ikuwe kama ile ya Lanchesta.

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ngoja kidogo Bwana Kirui, hio historia tunaijua sana. Ile tunataka kusikia ni proposal. Utupatie

proposal na iwe ni proposal mpya ambayo hatukuisikia tangu asubuhi.

Philemon Kirui: Asante, proposal yangu ni kuhusu ningependa kusema mimi naona kama saa imeenda ni ardhi na kortini na

sheria. Mamulaka ya Rais ipunguzwe. Kenya iwe na waziri mkuu executive Prime Minister.

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Kuhusu ardhi, sheria ya ardhi ipewe shula mpya kwa sababu sheria ya sasa imeruhusu unyakuzi wa ardhi.

Kuhusu ardhi, nchi zingine ardhi zimekuwa dogo lakini housing haijakuwa dogo. It is mandatory in Kenya that every person be

provided with shelter, medicine, and food. Hapa Kenya, watu wa Kenya hawajui haya na ni vitu ambazo ni basic rights ya

binadamu yeyote katika ulimwengu. Kenya we don’t have such

Interjection

Com. P. M. Wambua: Philemon, wewe unapendekeza basic needs should be basic rights, in

Philemon Kirui: Yes, basic rights, that’s what I mean.

Com. P. M. Wambua: including housing?

Philemon Kirui: Yes housing and water and shelter.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Una mengine mapya?

Philemon Kirui: Unajua naona kama mnaniharakisha sana. Sasa mimi naona tu nimalizane nayo kwa sababu saa imeenda.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Aaa, tunasema yale ambayo yamesemwa natukayaandika hakuna haja ya kurudia maanake sio hesabu

tutafanya.

Philemon Kirui: So, ni mimi nimesema shelter, medical and What? And food. That is the basic right ya kila mtu kama wewe

ni Mkenya.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo tumeandika dugu.

Philemon Kirui: Hiyo mmeandika? So, kuhusu mambo ya ardhi, nimesema kwamba the current land policy is weak. It has

permitted what we call what? Corruption.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Na ukasema, Presidential powers zipunguzwe.

Philemon Kirui: Yes, Presidential powers should be reduced.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Zote tumeandika hizo.

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Philemon Kirui: Yes, and then the country like Kenya, the future leadership should have a Prime Minister who is Executive.

He should not be appointed. An appointed Prime Minister have problems because he works under somebody. So the

Executive Prime Minister will have independent powers.

Ya mwisho ni judiciary – Legislature: Judiciary should be independent to empower to prosecute looters – people who loot our

economy right away from the treasury. You loot today in Kenya, people loot our resources and then go with it. No court of

law that says this person, if you have looted our economy you have looted our resources. You must be prosecuted but if

judiciary is not independent, still under Executive President, then still we will have problems. We cannot manage to prosecute

these people.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kidogo, kwa sasa kuna judicial service commission ambayo inaappoint judges. These are the judicial

service commission recompliment the appointment of the President, huwa ni Attorney General and Chief Justice yuko dani.

Ungelipenda ku-rearrange hiyo mpango ndio iwe more independent ungepropose nini?

Philemon Kirui: I propose ya kwamba wawe wakisimamia wenyewe mambo ya sheria bila kuwa under Executive. Should be

independent from what? From Executive.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Hiyo nimeweka sasa.

Philemon Kirui: I mean the chair is the President because the current judiciary is under the President. So what I mean should

remain independent, s

Com. P. M. Wambua: Tumeelewa sasa. Yenyewe mapya.

Philemon Kirui: Land transaction: The current land policy kwa sababu hainiluhusu unyaguzi wa ardhi, sheria ipewe jamii ili

jamii wapewe ili jamii watawale utumishi pamoja na upanguzi kwa sababu saa hii kuna mtu mmoja ana shamba moja hapa moja

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Eldoret, Nanyuki, Kitale, Mombasa. Hii mtu mmoja ataifanya nini?

Com. P. M. Wambua: Kidogo tafadhali, hiyo ilitajwa, na wakasema mambo yanaohusia mashamba yarudishwe kwa

wananchi na village elders hao ndio wanaamua. On a _______ na kama kuna dispute. Na hiyo tumeandika.

Philemon Kirui: Kuhusu forestry, forestry ifiche ikae kwa mkono wa _______. Mimi nataka namna hii, I propose that

forests and lakes should be handed over to United Nations because forestry ni kitu cha muhimu. Forestly goes also with

______. These are dangerous trends and most people will not understand the difficulties we are in because of the dipression of

_____. If I say _______ ___________________ from other people. But __________ the current climatical changes shows

that the future will not be good. So forestly should be handed over to United Nations for protection and management. Okay

Thank you very much.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Ngoja kidogo kuna swali kwa hiyo mambo ya UN. Kenya is a sovereign nation, we are sovereign

people, hii ni nchi huru kabisa. Under what basis would you want to give a foreign body to control over our resources?

Philemon Kirui: Hapa Kenya tuna makabila albaine na nane and I know 42 tribes, sisi tukienda kama commission,

tunaambiwa Marakwet haijahesabiwa, tunaambiwa watu hawajahesabiwa, lakini nasema kwa kabila yote 42 kila mtu kuchunga

forest yake. This one will not be possible. Let me guide you this way, vile vitu zimetendeka hapa Kenya kutoka huko mbele

haiwezi kuwa ni tofauti. Kenya ni nchi ambayo imewekwa na Mungu kulingana na ukabila yake ambayo siyo mbaya, its our

heritage but still we cannot protect our forests as tribe based. No.

Com. P. M. Wambua: That’s your view lakini kitu nilikuwa nataka kuestablish ni kwamba, the only thing which have really

impressed me when I came to Baringo district is how you have looked at the environment, and if your justification for giving the

people the right to land, you are saying that, because the people who live on that land ____________tape unclear. Then that

same urguement can be used to say they can take care of the forest.

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Philemon Kirui: No, no, what I mean is that there is land for – kama hii imekatwa, kama shamba za ______ and whatever.

Hiyo inagaiwa watu lakini forestry, ukipewa community, haitawezekana let me tell you this. People will tend to use forest as

part of ____. So if we hand over to United Nations for protections, I plea it cannot be only Kenya. It has to be other

countries which will support such a policy to protect our forests, to protect our indegineous trees.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Tafadhali tumeelewa sasa. I think we take that as your proposal, except to register yourself. Na

wewe ulizungumza jana, lakini ulizungumza jana. Haya ongezea lakini dakika moja tafadhali.

Aaron Kipchumba: Kwa majina ni Aaron Kipchumba. Ningependekeza ya kwamba parliament iwe na parmanent timetable,

sio Rais anafikiria ni siku gani ataivuja na siku gani ataiamsha.

Ya pili ningependa wazazi wa watoto walio na ulemavu ambao hawawezi kusaidika wapewe social support.

Ya tatu ningependekeza ya kwamba wale waliona mahitaji ya kimatibabu ya maisha wapate matibabu hayo bila garama yeyote.

Asante.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Jiandikishe hapo maanake tume… Ni kama tumemaliza sasa, nafikiri tumefika mwisho wa kikao hiki

na ningependa kwanza kuwashukuru nyote ambao mmefika hapa na wale ambao tayari wameondoka maanake mulipima

wakati na sasa ikiwa ni kama saa kumi hivi na dakika saba tumemaliza, na hiyo itatupatia muda nasi twende kujitayarisha kwa

kikao cha kesho, nanyi mtarudi nyumbani mkaangalie ng’ombe, na nini ingine? Na kodoo, na buzi mhakikishe zimerudi

nyumbani ama wamerudi nyumbani wakiwa wasalama. Kwa hivyo ningependa kuwashukuru nyote kwa niamba ya

macommissioners wangu wawili ambao tayari wameondoka commissioner Mama Phoebe Asiyo na Commissioner Pastor

Zablon Ayonga ambaye alikuwa mwenyekiti wa kikundi hiki na mwenzangu hapa ambaye tuko naye ambaye nitampa na nafasi

naye pia azungumze kidogo, commissioner Zein. Tafadhalini kubali sisi tungependa kusema asanteni sana kwa kuja hapa kutoa

maoni yenu. Maoni yenyewe yalikuwa yanafaa na mlipima wakati vizuri na tunataka kuhakikisha nyinyi kwamba yale maoni

yote mliyatoa yataingia kwa Katiba. Tutakapofika kutengeneza report, tutahakikisha ya kwamba views presented to us, maoni

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ambayo yalipeanwa na wananchi wote yameingia kwa hiyo report na tutatayarisha report kwanza ya constituency. Baringo

North, wale ambao walikuja na walisema nini. Na hiyo report itarudishwa kwenu muiangalie, muichunguze mhakikishe ya

kwamba kweli tulipofika huko Kabartonjo Chiefs Camp tulisema haya. Mtayakaguwa yale ambayo yatakuweko na kama

kwa kweli kutakuwa na mengine ambayo hayakuandikwa na mliyasema, mtapewa na nafasi tena kusema haya tulisema

hatukuyaona.

Vile vile kutakuwa na national report, na sheria ilioko inasema kwamba hiyo national report tutakapoitengeneza basi itarudishwa

kwenu tena na pia mtaishoma. Ikiwa sheria haitapiduliwa, ikiwa sheria itakuwa vile bado ingali iko, report mtapewa muda

muisome halafu mtatupatia maoni tena, halafu hiyo report tutaipeleka tena kwa national constitutional conference kikao cha

kitaifa ambako kutakuwa na representatives kutoka Baringo districts, MP wenu ambao ni mjumbe atakuwa huko, nasi

tutakuwa huko. Halafu tutazungumzia hiyo report tuangalie kweli kama itafaa Kenya. Tukisha kumbaliana, basi itapelekwa

bunge na itapitishwa iwe Katiba mpya.

Ikiwa hatutakubaliana maanake kunawezekana tusikumbaliane, hawa wanasema hivi na wengine wanasema hivi, basi sheria

ilioko sasa ikiwa ndio itakuweko, tutatakiwa tufanye referendum; wananchi waamue wenyewe. Waseme kwa wingi tunataka

hivi. Kwa hivyo Katiba ambayo itatokea hapo mwisho, itakuwa kweli ni ile Katiba ya wananchi sio itakuwa Katiba ya

commission, itakuwa ni wananchi maanake tumehakikisha ya kwamba kila stage wananchi wanakuwa involved. Kwa hivyo

msije mkaona sasa tukitoka hapa mambo ya Katiba yameisha. Apana, tutarudi tena na hiyo report mtaletewa, mtapewa na

nafasi ya kuisoma halafu mtahakikisha ya kwamba yale yote mlioyasema yako humo dani. Kwa hivyo tutarudi hapa na

kutakuwa na nafasi nyingine tena lakini haitakuwa ya kupokea maoni kama jinsi mlivyofanya leo. Kwa hivyo kutoka hapa

mkoa huu tutaenda Western. Ule mkoa ambao umebaki ni mmoja tu, Rift Valley na Western, tutamalizia huko Western na

kulingana na programme ambao tumetayarisha, tutamaliza Western hapo mwisho wa mwezi huu wa saba. Halafu sasa tutaanza

kutengeneza hiyo report. Kwa hivyo ikiwa vile tumepamba mambo hayabadiriki, tunafikiria tukifika hapa mwezi wa kumi

pengine hizo reports zitakuwa tayari, na tutarudi hapa ndio mpewe na nafasi ya kuisoma na hivyo na hivyo. Lakini sheria

ikibadilika basi tutawaeleza halafu tutajua jinsi tutavyoendelea. Kwa hivyo hiyo ndio sehemu ambayo inabakia kuanzia leo lakini

kwa sasa tumefanya kazi nzuri na ningelipenda kuwashukuru na sana sana wale members wa 3Cs. Wako wapi? Kujeni hapa

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tafadhalini.

Hawa wazee kama mnavyowaona, hawa ndio walikuwa wanashughulikia mambo ya civic education kuhakikisha ya kwamba

mumefikiwa na materials, mmeeleza jinsi tutakavyokuja kupokea maoni kuhakikisha ya kwamba maswala na maswali ambayo

tutakuja hapa kuyasikiza na yale ambao mtatolea maoni yenu kweli imefanyika sawa sawa na kazi yao ilikuwa nzuri, hata nyinyi

mtakumbali. Kwa hivyo kwa niaba ya tume ningelipenda kuwashukuru hawa members of 3Cs na district co-ordinator nafikiri

hayuko hapa. Ako? Kuna muakirishi. Kwa hivyo kwa niaba ya tume, kwa niaba ya macommissioners ambao tulikuwa na wao

hapa, kwa niaba ya tume nafikiria hao wakaaji wa hapa Baringo North Kabartonjo division, ile division nyingine ilikuwa

inaitwa? Kipsalam. Kwa hivyo mtapokea shukurani zetu na hiyo kazi mliyofanya ni nzuri. Kwa ile stage ambayo imebakia

tafadhalini mhakikishe ya kwamba kazi inaendeshwa tu vile mlifanya. Kwa hivyo kwa niaba ya tume asanteni sana. Na kabla

sijasahau, tumemaliza hapo. Bwana DO provincial administration nasikia hapa kweli ilifanya kazi vizuri. Kwa hivyo kwa niaba

ya tume pia, tafadhali pokea kwa niaba ya DC, Provincial Administration kwa ujumla upokee shukurani. Tutakupatia nafasi pia

uzungumze yako, nafikiria tuko kwako utapata nafasi pia, useme machache. Nafikiria nitakoma hapo maanako yale yote

ningelisema pengine tumeyasema na tumekubaliana tusirudie. Si ni kweli? Leo tumesema tusirudie maanake hamkurudia, na sisi

hatutarudia, kwa hivyo nitamuuliza mwenzangu hapa aseme machache halafu tutamuuliza Bwana DO aseme machache halafu

tutafunga kwa maobi maanake tuliaanza na maombi, halafu kikao tukifuje ama tukihailishe. Kwa hivyo

Com. Abubakar Zein: Yangu mafupi sana. Mimi ni kuwashukuru sana kwa kufika na kutoa maoni yenu vizuri sana na

kutokea jana tumekuwa na siku nzuri jana na leo siku nzuri na tunawashukuru sana wakaazi wa Baringo North kwa kujitokesha

kwa wingi na kutupa maoni ambao yanafaa na tunawahakikishia kwamba tutayatumia maoni haya kama mzingi wa kujenga

Katiba yetu mpya kama tutavyotumia maoni ya Wakenya wengine katika sehemu zingine katika jamhuri yetu hii tukufu ya

Kenya.

Pengine ambalo mwenzangu hakutaja na mimi ningependa kulitaja, ni kwamba jana yeye na mimi na wale macommissioners

wengine tulipata fursa ya kukutana na yule mwenyeji wa Kipsalaman aliyekuwa ameishi million sita iliyopita. Kwa hivyo tulienda

tukakutana na yeye huko, na sisi tukafurahi sana na badhi yetu tuna hadithi nyingi za kupeleka nyumbani kuwaelezea wazazi

wetu pia kwamba tulikutana na mtu aliyeishi miaka million sita iliopita huko pande za Lake Baringo, karibu na Lake Baringo.

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Asanteni sana na Mungu awambaliki.

Na mwisho kabisa ningependa kusema kwamba tulipokuwa tukiendelea na kazi yetu, tulipata aalifa, we received information

from the honourable member of parliament from this area giving his apologies that he had been held up at parliament due to

important business in parliament today. Kwamba tulipata aalifa kutoka kwa mbunge mheshimiwa Kiptuni wa area hii kwamba

ameshikika na kazi bungeni leo na akaomba watu wamuie ladhi kwamba hakuweza kuwa na sisi hivi leo. Na sisi tulikubali

hivyo na tukasema, kabla hatujaondoka tutawaelezea mambo tulioalifiwa sisi. Asanteni sana.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Huyo rafiki yetu alitajwa na commissioner Zein hakutupatia maoni maanake hali yake ni ile hawezi

kutoa maoni lakini tulisoma na tukachukua maoni kutoka huko. Kitu kingine ambacho pengine ningelitaja ambacho Bwana DO

amenikubusha ni kwamba ikiwa umekosa na nafasi ama mtu mwingine amekosa na nafasi ya kutoa maoni leo, baado kuna

nafasi. Anaweza kuandika maoni yake na apatie district coordinator ama one of the members of the 3Cs na hayo yatatufikia

huko Nairobi na tutahakikisha ya kwamba yataingia kwa ile orodha na tutafanya analysis. Kwa hivyo usione kama ni mwisho.

Ikiwa kuna mtu alikosa na nafasi kuja leo, anaweza kuandika halafu apeane na ikija huko itaingia kwa ile orodha ya wale

ambao wametupatia maoni.

Ya pili, ikiwa unaweza kufika pengine neighbouring constituency maanake tuko hapa tu, kesho tuko Baringo Central hapo

Kabarnet. Ukiwa unaweza kujisqeeze, pengine uamke mapema, uwe mbele, pengine tunaweza kukusikia. Lakini ukifika huko

ikiwa watu wameandika na hautafikiwa na nafasi, bado bado nafasi iko utaandika maoni utuletee. Kwa hivyo hayo ndio

nilikuwa nataka kusema maanake nimekubushwa na bwana DO. Kwa hivyo Bwana DO unaweza kusema machache halafu

tufunge kikao.

D.O.: Basi langu ni kuwashukuru kwa hii kazi ambayo imefanyika tangu jana mpaka leo. Vile mwenyekiti wa kikao hiki saa

hizi amesema, mumeona mwenzetu Aaron Kipchumba, jana alikuwa Kipsalaman, kuna kitu alisahau, unaona amepatiwa nafasi?

So kwa hivyo vile vile amesema ikiwa leo umepata shida lingine, still you can present at Kabarnet kesho. Sitaki kuchukuwa

wakati mwingi, langu tu ni kushukuru wakaaji wa area hii, constituency ya Baringo North kutokea jana mpaka leo mumeweka

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amani katika kikao hiki ambacho kimefanyika siku ya leo, na hapa Kabartonjo tumefanyia nje mahali ambapo kila mtu alipata

nafasi yake kutoa maoni yake. Tungefanyia dani ya hall lakini tuliangalia ya kwamba wacha tuje nje mahali kila mtu ako na huru

kutoa maoni yake. Kwa hivyo nashukuru nasema asanteni.

Com. P. M. Wambua: Tumpate mtu mmoja atuombee.

Speaker: Tutasimama zote. Basi natuombe, Mungu Jehova Baba wa bingu, asante baba kwa sababu ya wema wako, asante

kwa ajiri ya msaada ambao umetupa, twaungama wazi ya kwamba, kama si wewe hatungeweza kufikia mahali ambayo

tumefika. Asante kwa kila jambo ambayo ilifanyika tangu jana tulipokuwa kule Kipsalaman mpaka hata na leo tumekuwa hapa

Kabartonjo, twakushukuru Mungu Baba kwa ajiri ya amani, twakushukuru Mungu baba kwa ajiri ya yote mema ambayo

umefanya kwa ajiri yetu. Hata kwa ajiri ya maandishi, mazungumzo yale yote ambayo tumeyazungumzia kuhusu nchi yetu, baba

tunakuhitaji na tunakuita ya kwamba kila jambo na kila kato ambalo litakatwo na wanakenya lipate kutufaa na kufaa hata na

wale ambao watatufuata baadaye. Uibariki nchi hii, uibariki kila mmoja iishie katika nchi hii na hata kwa siku sijazo baraka

hizo zipate kuandamana pamoja nasi. Asante Mungu kwa ajiri ya wageni ambao wametutembelea, wanaporudi manyumbani

mwao au mahali ambao wataenda kikazi uwabariki uwasaidie wapate kuona uzuri wako na uzuri wa kuwa pamoja na Mungu.

Baba tena wale watabaki wawe chini ya neema yako, utubariki tunapokaa, hata wanapoondoka uwe pamoja nasi.

Twakushukuru kwa hayo machache kwa jina la Yesu ambaye ni mwokozi wetu. Amen.

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