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Managing Director/Admin Concerning Renato Real Name: Michael So, here is what you can post concerning Renato: I am writing this so that there is no confusion with regards to Renato here on WatchGeeks. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA #3. If you would like to trade one of your Renato pieces, you can do it in the trade area. Posts: 12,506 #2. If you would like to sell one of your Renato pieces, you can do it in the sales area. I hope that this clarifies the situation for everyone.
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meijin
Managing Director/Admin
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 12,506
Real Name: Michael
Concerning Renato
I am writing this so that there is no confusion with regards to Renato here on WatchGeeks.
On the evening of June the 7th, I made a post as the Managing Director of WatchGeeks concerning the
fact that Renato had sold many of their tourbillon pieces and had yet to deliver them to the members
that had paid for them. I'll refrain from rehashing the entire time line again, but suffice it to say that we
are approaching 3 months of wait time as I write this. Anyway, Daniel Mink took offense to my comments
and immediately "demanded" (his words, not mine) that his account be canceled and that all reference to
Renato be removed from WatchGeeks. After consulting with Eyal on this, we were happy to comply with
Daniel's request. So, that is the important part for people to understand. We
(Invicta/WatchGeeks/whomever) did not "ban" or otherwise remove Renato. They made the decision to
leave WatchGeeks.
So, here is what you can post concerning Renato:
#1. If you get a new (or new to you) Renato, you can post about it in the "Look What I Got" (LWIG)
portion of the forum.
#2. If you would like to sell one of your Renato pieces, you can do it in the sales area.
#3. If you would like to trade one of your Renato pieces, you can do it in the trade area.
#4. You can post the photos of the Renato you are wearing that day in the "On the Wrist" section of the
forum.
Other than that, you may not post about Renato. This includes, but is not limited to, promoting their
site(s), promoting their sales, promoting their new releases or anything else to do with the brand. This is
at their request.
I hope that this clarifies the situation for everyone.
__________________
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Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
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#2
06-18-2011, 03:25 AM
hvntgtaclu
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 537
Real Name: John
Thanks for the information.
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#3
06-18-2011, 03:29 AM
richhoff
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atmore, AL
Posts: 4,576
Real Name: Rich
Thanks Mike for the clarification.
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Two Expensive Hobbies.
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#4
06-18-2011, 03:38 AM
50mm&up
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Braintee, MA.
Posts: 16,954
Real Name: Rick
Wow, he chose to leave due to the flack over the Tourby and you questioning him on it? He has cut off
his nose in spite of his face, IMO. He will lose customers over this.
Amazing. I wish I could cancel my Tourby, but it is slated to go to someone else now. Thanks for
everything Michael.
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#5
06-18-2011, 04:14 AM
JoeGa
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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Real Name: Joe T
kinda like taking your football and going home .... truth sometimes hurts!
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#6
06-18-2011, 04:19 AM
chase16
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Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,226
Real Name: Gary A Chase
sad day.
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#7
06-18-2011, 04:24 AM
thescarletpimpernel
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 540
Real Name: Mike
Thanks for explaining it all to us...
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#8
06-18-2011, 04:28 AM
bugduck
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central VA. Blue Ridge MTNS.
Posts: 3,972
Real Name: Lynn
Thanks for the Information.
As of Now I Don't Own a Renato, Just never liked that Brand, and still do not intend to buy one !
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#9
06-18-2011, 04:30 AM
Evil Empire
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Powhatan Virginia
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Scott
thankyou Mike for the explaination but no need been done with Renanto for my own reasons,Seems like
not a very good move on his part,Leave shop ,leave the forum ,and also not deliver to dedicated fans .Its
like shooting yourdelf in the foot
Thanks for you honesty Mike
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#10
06-18-2011, 04:40 AM
GOPENNSTATE!
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lima, OH
Posts: 805
Real Name: Rob
Thanks Mike - as you recommended on 6/7, I cancelled my tourby order and my credit card has been
refunded. Like many other Geeks I grew tired of the "few more weeks" each update, and like you my
"Spidey-senses" were telling me something is not right. Thanks for looking out for us Geeks!
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#11
06-18-2011, 05:12 AM
BigBully
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,312
Hey Mike, what about if anyone has a question...like asking if anyone has a link, or if something needs
fixing and someone needs advice, help with sizing or operating a movement, etc... should we play safe
and keep that off of here.
i know even the littlest question will and can turn into a mjor thread so i just wanted to check being ya
posted.
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#12
06-18-2011, 05:20 AM
redhonda
Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gaithersburg Maryland.
Posts: 107
Real Name: Tim
yes Michael, as you advised, I also cancelled my Tourbillon, I got tired of waiting a 'few' more weaks! I
AM getting the Android MOP Tourbillon on June 29th when it goes on sale.
that watch from Wing is stunning!!! I would love to see Invicta come out with a tourbillon Reserve piece!
I can't even imagine the design Eyal would have on that if he did!!! I can see them putting out a MOP
design with the 'beater' at the top and lumes on the bezel!
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#13
06-18-2011, 05:21 AM
dhorsfield
Senior Geek
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 429
Real Name: David E Horsfield
Shortly after Michael penned the original remarks about Renato on the release of the Tourbillion, Daniel
fired back that Renato would have their own forum. Knowing this, I'm sure questions can be posted to
that forum or contact Renato directly.
This will be my last remark about Renato on this site in response to Michael's final comments. I, for one,
am greatly dismayed as to how all of this has unfolded for a variety of reasons that may well be similar to
other watch collector's. I've collected the brand, bought into the BCM (member 004); and recently
purchase another T-Rex. I will need some soul-searching if I'm to continue purchasing the brand. For my
Christian brothers and sisters - it is true, "we reap what we sow". Thanks for viewing.
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#14
06-18-2011, 05:50 AM
merra61
Senior Geek
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: boston, mass.
Posts: 225
Real Name: anthony
Thanks mike for the clarification, and thanks for all you do. I hope that in between all the excitement of
late, that you actually had time to enjoy your b-day and vacation !
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#15
06-18-2011, 05:55 AM
BG
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
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Real Name: Barry
Thanks for the clarification. Sad that it happened, but still love the Renato brand and quality. Wish them
well!
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#16
06-18-2011, 06:16 AM
J177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
Thanks for the clarification. Sad that it happened, but still love the Renato brand and quality. Wish them
well!
+ 1
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#17
06-18-2011, 06:41 AM
doublel
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 4,942
Real Name: Larry
Thanks for the clarification Michael. I love my Renato timepieces...all 9 of them!
It's too bad that Daniel made this decision regarding this forum.
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#18
06-18-2011, 07:09 AM
JJ-WATCHES
Senior Geek
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 150
Real Name: Kenneth
Sorry to here that, Renato is one of my favorite brands they make great watches, maybe something went
wrong somewhere along the line.
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#19
06-18-2011, 07:19 AM
Evil Empire
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Powhatan Virginia
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ok
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhorsfield
Shortly after Michael penned the original remarks about Renato on the release of the Tourbillion, Daniel
fired back that Renato would have their own forum. Knowing this, I'm sure questions can be posted to
that forum or contact Renato directly.
I wish him the best but cant see it being real busy
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#20
06-18-2011, 07:20 AM
ACE
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Location: Fort Walton Beach , Florida
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Thanks for this Michael. It probably has something to do with money
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#21
06-18-2011, 07:21 AM
volscout2
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: East Texas Piney Woods
Posts: 819
Real Name: Jerry
Thanks for the update and the clarification Michael. This will help the folks here but the Mommy`s
basement haters will take no notice...so forget them
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#22
06-18-2011, 08:11 AM
rambler1
Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sumrall, Ms.
Posts: 217
Real Name: David
I still love Renato, just won't post about them here.Would love to see how they run their site.
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#23
06-18-2011, 08:41 AM
JFM
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Location: California
Posts: 1,058
Real Name: Jay Malloy
wow...
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#24
06-18-2011, 08:54 AM
Knifemaker
Veteran Geek
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Live Free or Die NH
Posts: 982
I do not understand no posting about Renato. That is kind of queer to me
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#25
06-18-2011, 08:55 AM
Braatzman
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,780
Real Name: Nathan
Although I am perplexed by what has transpired and there are many questions unanswered I wish
Daniel and his company the very best and thank him for producing an excellent product and prior to
recent discrepencies, good service.
njsaintsfan Senior Geek
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nutley , N.J. Posts: 124
Real Name: Dan
Bad move for them as a company the only thing keeping the brand fresh in our heads was
this forum . Oh well .
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#27
06-18-2011, 11:37 AM
TimLovesWatches Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Enola Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,630
Real Name: Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
Thanks for the clarification. Sad that it happened, but still love the Renato brand and
quality. Wish them well!
ditto!!!
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#28
06-18-2011, 11:39 AM
Azel88 Master WatchGeek
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Location: chicago Posts: 3,035
Thanks uncle Mike
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#29
06-18-2011, 11:51 AM
bkacher1063 Veteran Geek
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 624
Real Name: Barry Anderson
Michael,
Thanks for what you do. This has to be getting old when adults continue to act like
preschoolers.
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#30
06-18-2011, 12:01 PM
silversparks Senior Geek
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: san jose ca
Posts: 130
Real Name: bill
I have stated in the past I dint trust D.M. a lot of bad history in the family.
Bill
PS I am an owner of Renato
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#31
06-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Sir Charles Super Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,970
Didn't see this one coming. Surreal.
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#32
06-18-2011, 12:11 PM
stevemayer Senior Geek
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 123
What an amazingly idiotic turn of events from a business management perspective. This all
could have been avoided had Daniel Mink handled the tourbillon rollout more professionally
and effectively. Who knows how many thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in sales he
will ultimately lose because of this.
Sad.
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#33
06-18-2011, 12:27 PM
timeman True WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 7,202
Real Name: Jerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemayer
What an amazingly idiotic turn of events from a business management perspective. This all
could have been avoided had Daniel Mink handled the tourbillon rollout more professionally
and effectively. Who knows how many thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in sales he
will ultimately lose because of this.
Sad.
Agree. His handling of the Renato Tourbillon has greatly hurt his business and reputation. I
think he was looking for a way to get out of watchgeeks, because he was forced to give
meaningless updates by repeatedly saying delivery would only be a few more weeks, over
and over again. By not being on the forum the amount of negative posts and publicity has
now stopped.
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#34
06-18-2011, 12:58 PM
ekirn Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois Posts: 151
Real Name: Ed
ahhhh free speech at work again....the king has spoken
Thanks Michael
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#35
06-18-2011, 01:07 PM
the B True WatchGeek
Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida
Posts: 6,301
Real Name: Jim B
Was not aware of this thanks for the imformaton ...sorry to hear about it
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#36
06-18-2011, 01:10 PM
WatchWacko Super Geek
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,423
Real Name: Rick
yup... great post.
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#37
06-18-2011, 01:11 PM
karns944 Veteran Geek
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ohio Posts: 881
Real Name: Matthew
Wow I always thought you wanted your name in as many places as possible if you owned a
business? Maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with that decision Renato.
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#38
06-19-2011, 06:32 AM
RipitRon Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver, Wa
Posts: 4,587
Sad day for some, and a Great day for others. I watched it unravel from the start to the
finish, and Mike did a what Mike was supposed to do......Good work Mike. You handled the
situation the way it should have been handled, looking out for the best interest of the Geek
community was your intent...........a blind man could have seen that.
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#39
06-19-2011, 06:35 AM
soberdave09 True WatchGeek
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Real Name: david b.
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#40
06-19-2011, 06:37 AM
BG Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 3,224 Real Name: Barry
Don't think it's a great day for anyone.
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#41
06-19-2011, 06:57 AM
Invictus H-D Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 232
Real Name: Don lagroix
O well. I wont cry over spilt milk. My opionion of Renato watches was "not for me". Seems
like bad business for renato to pull the plug. Thanks Mike for the info.
Don
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#42
06-19-2011, 07:31 AM
watchdude1 Moderator
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 3,522
Real Name: Matt
It is a great day from the perspective of integrity, particularly the integrity of our forum.
Mike was acting consistently with not only Mr. Mink's wishes, but with what had to happen.
It seems to me that one of Mike's number one responsibilities is to keep members safe from
questionable business practices from anyone who participates as a vendor on this forum.
Notice I used the word questionable. For those who feel flat "taken" then you know what I
am talking about. For those who feel that Mr. Mink did nothing wrong, then fine, but when
integrity gets called into question and people are wronged either actually or potentially, one
can't sit back and allow that to happen. From that perspective, kudos should be given to
Mike for leading in manner consistent with protecting those values. Let us NOT FORGET, it
was Mr. Mink who requested for the relationship between WG's and Renato to be terminated.
Mike honored that request. Whether you agree or disagree is really irrelevant as that was
what had to happen. Your opinion on whether it is a "good day" or not, well, that remains
your opinion.
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#43
06-19-2011, 07:56 AM
jeff meade Veteran Geek
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 585
To get respect you must give respect ----- thanks for all that you
do Michael !!
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#44
06-19-2011, 08:28 AM
garyh Super Geek
Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,210
Real Name: Gary
Thanks for the update Michael enjoy watchgeeks but not sure abot being prohibited about
sharing comments about Renato afterall it is the sharing of thoughts and knowlege that
helps us all enjoy this insane hobby!
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#45
06-19-2011, 08:32 AM
strutn45 True WatchGeek
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Location: "Da Swamp" LA.
Posts: 13,138
Real Name: John "DID DAT"
Sounds good to me, nodda problem... zip, zero.
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#46
06-19-2011, 08:51 AM
Jaybray1 Veteran Geek
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Location: Roanoke,Va.
Posts: 676
Real Name: Bobby
they have fell off anyway good riddins!
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#47
06-19-2011, 09:01 AM
spunky798 Master WatchGeek
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Boynton Oklahoma
Posts: 4,682
Real Name: Dan
WOW bummer but thank you Michael for letting us know.
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#48
06-19-2011, 09:03 AM
meijin Managing Director/Admin
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 12,506
Real Name: Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by garyh
Thanks for the update Michael enjoy watchgeeks but not sure abot being prohibited about
sharing comments about Renato afterall it is the sharing of thoughts and knowlege that
helps us all enjoy this insane hobby!
I agree with you. However, you should remember that it was not WatchGeeks that made this
decision. Renato did. We are looking to provide as many options as possible to allow
members to discuss Renato. As a matter of fact, I just added another section that I forgot
about and was reminded by another member. If you don't like the situation, I suggest that
you contact Daniel directly as he is the one that made the decision and issued the demands
to be removed from here.
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Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
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#49
06-19-2011, 09:03 AM
Ronko Man Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,138
Real Name: Doug
Seems strange that Daniel would want no promotions of his products on the site?
I respect that & wish Renato well.
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#50
06-19-2011, 09:14 AM
bundamania Senior Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 232
Real Name: Eric
Oh Well...Never did think much of them because of their dual deployant bands!
hawk27 Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 107
It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about
their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a
network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention
another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a
"freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement
is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information,
i.e., this website and who owns it).
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#52
06-19-2011, 09:48 AM
strutn45 True WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: "Da Swamp" LA. Posts: 13,138
Real Name: John "DID DAT"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk27
It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about
their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a
network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention
another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a
"freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the
statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the
information, i.e., this website and who owns it).
WG's is a private site not public.
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#53
06-19-2011, 11:04 AM
hitch Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 337
I didnt percieve that hawk was questioning whether the owners/adminstrators of WG have
the right to set and enforce the forum's TOS. It seemed like he was wondering if the WG
forum authorities would be liable to another company for a members statement made about
that company in the forum. Than he wrote that it might be a transport thing i.e.
responsibility lies with those who actually transport the post to the internet.
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#54
06-19-2011, 12:37 PM
RipitRon Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wa
Posts: 4,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk27
It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about
their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a
network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention
another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a
"freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the
statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the
information, i.e., this website and who owns it).
It doesnt really matter, the rules are the rules and they arent ours to make! Truly makes me
happy to be honest with you!
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#55
06-19-2011, 12:48 PM
texasdoug Senior Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 185
Real Name: Doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braatzman
Although I am perplexed by what has transpired and there are many questions
unanswered I wish Daniel and his company the very best and thank him for
producing an excellent product and prior to recent discrepencies, good service.
+1
__________________ Veni vidi vici
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#56
06-19-2011, 04:10 PM
MedicineMan Senior Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: South Florida
Posts: 104
Real Name: Billy
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchdude1
It is a great day from the perspective of integrity, particularly the integrity of our forum.
Mike was acting consistently with not only Mr. Mink's wishes, but with what had to happen.
It seems to me that one of Mike's number one responsibilities is to keep members safe
from questionable business practices from anyone who participates as a vendor on this
forum. Notice I used the word questionable. For those who feel flat "taken" then you know
what I am talking about. For those who feel that Mr. Mink did nothing wrong, then fine, but
when integrity gets called into question and people are wronged either actually or
potentially, one can't sit back and allow that to happen. From that perspective, kudos
should be given to Mike for leading in manner consistent with protecting those values. Let
us NOT FORGET, it was Mr. Mink who requested for the relationship between WG's and
Renato to be terminated. Mike honored that request. Whether you agree or disagree is
really irrelevant as that was what had to happen. Your opinion on whether it is a "good
day" or not, well, that remains your opinion.
You have a point, but the concern most had was the fact that there is a conflict of interest.
While MD is Managing director of the site, he's an employee of Invicta. A direct competitor of
Renato. To tell people, helpful or not, to cancel purchases with another company, when
you're about to release your own version of a Tourbillon..is questionable at best.
We all know the risks of buying anything from any company, watches or not. But whatever
the reason the delay happened, I doubt Renato wanted it that way. I'd rather wait and enjoy
a nice product. Just my .02
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#57
06-19-2011, 05:19 PM
Chief68 Moderator
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Staten Island New York
Posts: 14,467
Real Name: Nick
Quote:
Originally Posted by MedicineMan
You have a point, but the concern most had was the fact that there is a conflict of interest.
While MD is Managing director of the site, he's an employee of Invicta. A direct competitor
of Renato. To tell people, helpful or not, to cancel purchases with another company, when
you're about to release your own version of a Tourbillon..is questionable at best.
We all know the risks of buying anything from any company, watches or not. But whatever
the reason the delay happened, I doubt Renato wanted it that way. I'd rather wait and
enjoy a nice product. Just my .02
There is no conflict of interest , if that was the reason we would not have any other watch companies on here .
Android is here how many tourbillions did they make . The problem is when someone makes statements like
this and starts false rumors. Renato was questioned on behalf of our members all they had to say was they
were sorry for the delay and are working on it.They instead requested to be removed from here and never
allow anyone to speak about them again. In as far as being asked to cancel your order that was because the
information did not seem good that the watches would be ready any time soon. If you would rather wait that is
your choice but everyone else is free to make up there own minds as well without your conspiracy theories.
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#58
06-19-2011, 05:22 PM
BIG T LI Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: North Shore of Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,653
Real Name: Tommy
Well, I'm glad we've got that all cleared up, thanks Mike....
Peace out Renato !
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#59
06-19-2011, 05:47 PM
meijin Managing Director/Admin
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 12,506
Real Name: Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by MedicineMan
You have a point, but the concern most had was the fact that there is a conflict of interest.
While MD is Managing director of the site, he's an employee of Invicta. A direct competitor
of Renato. To tell people, helpful or not, to cancel purchases with another company, when
you're about to release your own version of a Tourbillon..is questionable at best.
We all know the risks of buying anything from any company, watches or not. But whatever
the reason the delay happened, I doubt Renato wanted it that way. I'd rather wait and
enjoy a nice product. Just my .02
Nice try, but your logic is a bit flawed here.
While technically you could say that any company that sells watches is a competitor to
Invicta, I really would not count Renato as much of a competitor. I don't mean that as an
insult in any way to Renato. It has to do with their business model. They cannot produce
enough product to be a competitor. They produced 150 tourbillon pieces. Quite honestly,
who cares? It is 150 watches. That is, literally, a drop in the bucket when it comes to sales.
Android and SO are producers of tourbillons. They have already made many more tourbillons
than Renato will ever make. They have more tourbillons in the works. They have and will be
advertising and marketing them here on WatchGeeks and will be selling them on SNBC. We
are happy that they are. And they are more than welcome to do so (as far as WatchGeeks
goes). Ask either Wing or Larry if they have ever even been remotely inhibited when it
comes to that. They will tell you that they have not. As a matter of fact, both Larry and Wing
can tell you that I have personally told them to do more here on WatchGeeks. I have
personally told the both of them specific things that they should try to do. For that matter,
even outside of the tourbillons, ask Stan from Deep Blue or Avi from XOS. I have done the
same with them. This site is for any of the vendors to advertise their products. To promote
their products. To interact with the fans of their brands. This was true before Invicta owned
the site and this has been true since Invicta bought the site.
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Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
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#60
06-19-2011, 05:56 PM
Drops Super Geek
Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Warwick, RI
Posts: 2,273
Real Name: Jason
who cares they keep making great watches i will keep picking them up ..nuff said
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#61
06-19-2011, 05:59 PM
Alarmguy Veteran Geek
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Central, Ca
Posts: 748 Real Name: Gary
Wow, also.... I have over 16 Renato's.... oh well...
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#62
06-19-2011, 06:03 PM
meijin Managing Director/Admin
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 12,506
Real Name: Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarmguy
Wow, also.... I have over 16 Renato's.... oh well...
And I hope that, if it please you, you own another 16. And as you purchase each one, you
can show them off here.
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Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
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#63
06-19-2011, 06:08 PM
mrspa Super Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DeKalb IL.
Posts: 2,297
Real Name: Dave Newby
Thanks for the heads up Michael typical DM MOVE
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#64
06-19-2011, 06:17 PM
ekirn Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Illinois
Posts: 151
Real Name: Ed
Originally Posted by hawk27
It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about
their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a
network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention
another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a
"freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement
is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information,
i.e., this website and who owns it).
That's what happens when a competitor brand owns a website forum, eventually competing
brands will start to slowly disappear for one reason or another and of course the admins will
say that it is above board.
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#65
06-19-2011, 06:19 PM
Chief68 Moderator
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Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Staten Island New York
Posts: 14,467
Real Name: Nick
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekirn
Originally Posted by hawk27
It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about
their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a
network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention
another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a
"freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the
statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the
information, i.e., this website and who owns it).
That's what happens when a competitor brand owns a website forum, eventually
competing brands will start to slowly disappear for one reason or another and of course the
admins will say that it is above board.
Is that what you really believe ED ?
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#66
06-19-2011, 08:41 PM
MamboKing Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Quad Cities (Moline, IL.) Posts: 3,001
Real Name: Joe
Mike, I appreciate hearing first hand from you what happened and how it went down.
Thanks.
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#67
06-19-2011, 08:55 PM
Pete Super Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: King of Prussia, Pa
Posts: 1,241
Thanks allot Mike for looking out for us watch geeks.
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#68
06-19-2011, 09:36 PM
watchluv Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,990
The way I remember, Mike posted that Renato would be banned from WG's because of the
sales of the Tourbillions not being delivered. That he was protecting the members and Daniel
never responded back to his e-mails. So, Daniel read this and responded back that he was
insulted and wanted to be removed from the site and was opening his on web-site. I just
think it got out of hand. But I understand the decision and respect it. I wish them well and
still will support them. Their quality and C/S is outstanding from my experiences.
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#69
06-19-2011, 10:50 PM
football Member Geek
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rockville, Maryland
Posts: 55 Real Name: Harry
The Renato/Daniel Mink back story
For those who have expressed conspiracy theories, don't forget that this tourbillion fiasco is
not the first time that Daniel Mink has perpetrated what seems to be less than honest
Renato business practices, ie: Daniel's personal definition of what an advertised NUMBERED
LIMITED EDITION is. Remember, he denied Geek questions several different times here on
Watch Geeks that he was reissuing and selling the exact same size, color, dial configuration
and even Model Number watches that had sold through their originally advertised maximum
limited number production. After initially ignoring these questions, Daniel finally responded
here in the Forum and denied that Renato was doing this until several Geeks were able to
produce photographic evidence that newly built models that, for example, may have been
originally engraved with a maximum of 64 were now being reproduced/reissued and sold
showing a maximum number higher than that which was originally stated on the original
production run. When confronted with the photographic evidence, his response was that
ShopNBC made him do it because it was a popular watch. Upon reading through all the
replys to this topic, I noticed that some of the people who where questioning
Michael's/Invicta's motives were relatively new to the Forum and should be made aware of
why there are Geeks who are not mourning Renato's departure from the site.
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#70
06-19-2011, 11:07 PM
Rodeoboy Veteran Geek
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 988
While who did what in what sequence is always interesting there is a way bigger issue here.
The failure to learn what Freedom of Speech means. It has NOTHING to do with a private
forum. It is a contract between the citizen and the government of the UNITED STATES that
we are free to criticize them without any retribution. Watchgeeks is not the US government
and has the right to tell us to shut the hell up. Don't like it ? Go start your own forum and
see how you like everyone telling you how to run it.
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#71
06-19-2011, 11:11 PM
bpsnow Senior Geek
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Outside of East Lansing, Mi
Posts: 441
Real Name: Bryce
We should have all learned our lesson months ago. I questioned Minks business model and
called his Black Card Club exactly what it was, a cash grab. Got looked at as a troublemaker
and rabble rouser then. Probably will still get looked at that way too, as long as the TOS of
this site prohibits free exchange of ideas.
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#72
06-19-2011, 11:39 PM
chalklit1 Senior Geek
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 236
Bummer, but i understand, business&'s must go on!!!
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#73
06-20-2011, 06:17 AM
oltime Member Geek
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA Baby! #1 Bklyn - NJ
Posts: 50
Real Name: soon to be revealed
KUDOS to all responses this is why I prefer this site, good debate, varied opinions and
carried out in a civil manner. If this issue was carried out on the other "free" sites much of it
would read like a bunch of street punks hanging on the corner. I'm a newbie here so I don't
know all the issues or history @ hand. But I can still purchase what I like and discuss it
here.........sounds good to me. Thanks to all who help keep WG flowing and to the WG
members who keep it "sane". (Joe aka oltime)
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#74
06-20-2011, 06:26 AM
Panda03Bear True WatchGeek
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Silver Spring, MD.
Posts: 11,372
Real Name: Adam
clarity received. thanks michael for the update.
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#75
06-22-2011, 11:43 AM
TheMatrix True WatchGeek
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 7,335
Thanks for the info Michael. I like the Renato brand but am a bit disappointed about how
things have turned out with some of their products. With that said, their Mostro 7750 is
simply awesome!
brimsauce Senior Geek
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Baltimore Maryland
Posts: 319 Real Name: Brian
Until this happened, I thought Invicta, Renato, and Sthurling were all the same watch
company, just different lables smacked on the watches. Now I know I was wrong.
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#77
06-22-2011, 12:17 PM
meijin Managing Director/Admin
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 12,506
Real Name: Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by brimsauce
Until this happened, I thought Invicta, Renato, and Sthurling were all the same watch
company, just different lables smacked on the watches. Now I know I was wrong.
Why in the world would you think that? The companies do not have have never had anything
to do with one another.
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Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
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#78
06-22-2011, 12:50 PM
bwag829 Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: West Springfield, MA
Posts: 3,151
Real Name: Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by brimsauce
Until this happened, I thought Invicta, Renato, and Sthurling were all the same watch
company, just different lables smacked on the watches. Now I know I was wrong.
I always wondered if Coke really owns Pepsi
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#79
06-22-2011, 02:37 PM
nolad Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Signal Hill, CA
Posts: 413
Real Name: Watch-out-there-now
All righty then, since like you are all saying -- Bill Gates owns everything...Then I am on my
way to KFC to order a Big Mac and Coke...LOL!!!
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#80
06-22-2011, 03:09 PM
watchfriend Senior Member
Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 119
Real Name: Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by meijin
Why in the world would you think that? The companies do not have have never had
anything to do with one another.
Almost makes you want to rethink the screening process to become a WG! lol
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#81
06-23-2011, 09:58 AM
imcir Member Geek
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: WV
Posts: 88
Real Name: Dale Leoni
Thanks for the info.
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#82
06-24-2011, 05:51 PM
repedros Member Geek
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 46
Real Name: Rene
Awesome
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#83
06-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Faisal Anwar Veteran Geek
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bridgeport CT
Posts: 629
Real Name: Faisal Anwar
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .. sad to see renato go. Altho , I was never a big fan but still
... Well Good Luck
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#84
06-24-2011, 06:28 PM
heavyjumbo Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,517
Real Name: Paul
With all due respect, if I were Daniel I too would likely ask for the removal of my company
from this forum after being criticized or my integrity otherwise challenged by the owner of
the forum particularly where the forum was doing absolutely nothing to "police" the pure
speculation that my company was going out of business or there was an impending
bankruptcy when nothing could be further from the truth. I could go on and on and on...I'm
just calling it like I see it. Dont kill me for it, just my opinion.
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#85
06-24-2011, 07:27 PM
watchluv Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,990
I still have my order for the tourbillion and will post it when it arrives. There was a part that
had to made over and is almost ready to be assembled. I really wish it could have been
worked out better.
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#86
06-24-2011, 07:29 PM
timely1 Super Geek
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baltimore MD Posts: 2,216
Real Name: Joe
Everyone else seems to be giving their opinions here, so why not, I'll throw in my two cents
too.
IMO, Renato asked to be removed from Watchgeeks because they were getting a lot of
negative publicity - yes a lot of speculation, but also factual info, such as with the Tourbillon
delivery issues. I think they were trying to protect the company's reputation from getting
damaged any further than it already had been.
I'm sorry the Tourbillon problems came about, for those Geeks who ordered one. I will say
that I got a Mostro 7750 and love it, even though "ready for immediate shipment"
apparently meant shipment 6 business days after ordering. IMO, Renato has not always put
the customer first with some of the decisions the company has made; but they do make a
fine product.
For any Geeks still awaiting the Tourbillon, I hope you get it soon and it blows your socks off
when it arrives!
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#87
Yesterday, 01:13 PM
strutn45 True WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: "Da Swamp" LA.
Posts: 13,138
Real Name: John "DID DAT"
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyjumbo
my company was going out of business.
I'm just calling it like I see it. Dont kill me for it, just my opinion.
Won't be too much longer.
Yeah, me too.
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#88
Yesterday, 01:41 PM
watchcrazzedrookie Senior Geek
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: OHIO,columbus for now
Posts: 233
Real Name: richard,rick is cool too
thanks michael for the heads up,i for one was thru when daniel promised interchangeable
straps would be on shop for months for the t rex. never saw them on shop but months later
a few cheesy looking straps showed up on thier site. im sorry for all the geeks who were led
down another sorry lane by daniel he has alot to learn about customer relations i personaly
glad i wont have to pass by any more sorry posts about a farse of a company.
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#89
Yesterday, 02:07 PM
watchfriend Senior Member
Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 119
Real Name: Michael
Wish we could at least "talk" about Renato here. If there's a great deal, we want to
share. If there's a problem we also want to share.
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