Committee on Un-American Activities4-1956

8/14/2019 Committee on Un-American Activities4-1956

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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6875with respect to their promotions of peace. We see here one of thepromoters of peace is Grace Partridge, executive secretary of theNorthern Cahfornia Committee for Protection of Foreign Bom inSan Francisco.There is an article here telling all about the fact that they knowwhat is going on in the Soviet Unionthat they have facts availablefor people, understanding, friendship, trade and peace.

Please locJk at this document and tell this Committee on Un-Ameri-can Activities while you arc under oath whether or not your promo-tion of peace that you spoke about is the promotional activities evi-denced in that booklet.(Document retained in Committee files.)(The witness examines document and confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. Partridge. I refuse to answer on the' grounds of the fifthamendment.Mr. Arens. Mrs. Partridge, we want to invite your attention to acall to a conference, signed by Grace Partridge, executive secretary ofthe Northern California Committee for Protection of Foreign Born.The call to the conference seriously condemns J. Edgar Hooverbecause of use of what is called here "lying stool pigeons." It seriouslyattacks the movement of this Government to deport a number ofCommunists. It calls for the repeal of the Walter-McCarran law.It condemns the frameup by our Government of progressive Ameri-cans and trade unionists.Will you look at this document and tell us whether or not it is astool pigeon document when it bears your signature as the executivesecretary of the Northern California Committee for Protection ofForeign Born who is doing all these things.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 566,'' see appendix, p. 8115.)

(The witness examines document and confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Partridge. I don't really understand what you wantwhat

you ask.Mr. Arexs. I just want you to tell us. Did you sign that document?Are you the promoter of that conference?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Partridge. Then I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth

amendment.Mr. Velde. What is the date of that document?Mr. Arens. It is anMr. Velde. I asked you what the date of the document is.Mrs. Partridge. He will tell you.Mr. Arens. It is an undated document.Mr. Velde. When was the meeting called for then ?Mr. Arens. It makes reference to a conference which, according to

the document, is to bo held in San Francisco March 5. The year doesnot appear.Mr. Velde. You could tell us that ; couldn't you ?Mr. SciiERER. She could, but she won't.(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mr. Velde. Can you tell us the date of the proposed meeting?(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. Partridge. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifthamendment.


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6876 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. Arens. Now we have a final document which we would like to

invite to your attention. It is the Sixth iVnnual Conference To Repealthe Walter-McCarran Law and Defend Its Victims.We have displayed this document to a number of people in thecourse of the several cities in which we have been, a number of peoplewho were participants, and we want to give you an opportunity tolook at it.This sixth annual conference, according to this document, has asone of the leaders, Grace Partridge, executive secretary of the North-ern California Committee for Protection of Foreign Born, a fraternaldelegate.Kindly look at this document and tell us whether or not you weretlie participant or leader in that sixth annual conference.

(See exhibit No. 102ti, appendix, p. 7273.)(The witness examines document and confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Partridge. The same answer on the gromids of the fifth amend-

ment.Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con-clude the staff interrogation of this witness.Mr. Velde. No questions.Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer?Mr. Scherer. I don't believe, Counsel, you asked the witnesswhether at this moment she is a member of the Communist Party.Are you a member of the Communist Party today, madam ?

Mrs. Partridge. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifthamendment.Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions.Mr. Doyle. I notice this exhibit, referring to a conference Saturday,March 5, without any year indicated, also includes this statement,apparently over the signature of Grace Partridge, executive secre-tary, the witness before us. This is a mimeographed copy apparentlyof the original signature, if she signed the original. This is what itsays, among other things

Abnei- Green from New York will be present to report on national develop-ments in the struggles to defend the rights of foreign-born Americans.Who, according to our record, was Abner Green, Mr. Scherer?Mr. Scherer. One of the most notorious Communists in the world.And also in this same document signed by the witness she attacks

the United States for its attempt to deport Harry Bridges.Mr. Doyle. I see on these two checks which have been presented,drawn on the Bank of America, apparently by the Northern Califor-nia Committee for Protection of Foreign Born, 948 Market St., Room417, San Francisco, one being dated October 5, 1956, one of the signa-tures appears to be Grace Partridge, and the other one, dated later,also appears to be signed by Grace Partridge.

I call attention of the committee to this fact, that apparently, there-fore, the same procedure is followed here by this Northern Committeefor Protection of Foreign Born that was followed in Los Angelesthat the sponsors of that committee, at that date were employing andpaying out of funds, which they received from the public by way ofcontribution for the protection of foreign bornsalaries to an execu-tive secretary or chairman who, as far as the record goes, was a Com-munist, a member of the Communist Party. I think that is clearlywhat the record shows.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6877So I just wish to state to the sponsors of the committee in San

Francisco, the same as I did in Los Angeles, that the contributing SanFrancisco and Bay area public to the Xorthern California Committeefor Protection of Foreign Born should know that when they con-tribute money to this committee that the person who controls the bankitccount of the organization is identified before this committee, andeven in a public record at the State capitol, as a member of the StateCommittee of the Communist Party. If that is the way they wanttheir money to be spent they can do it with their eyes open.But the Communist Party here, the same as it was in Los Angeles,is apparently controlling the finances and policy of the American Com-mittee for Foreign Born in northern California.Mr. ScHERER. It is not only true of I^os Angeles ; it is generally trueof these committees throughout tlie United States.

Mr. Doyle. That is right.Let's see who the American Committee for Protection of ForeignBorn is, which has been referred to by counsel.I have here the Guide to Subversive Organizations and Publica-

tions, published by the 82d Congress, House Document 137, Page 13thereof. And this is the parent committee, as I understand it, of theNorthern California Committee for Protection of Foreign Born andalso the Southern California Committee for Protection of ForeignJ^orn or alleged protection of the foreign born.

Plere is what 1 read

:

American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born.1. Cited as subversive and Communist. (Attorney General Tom Clark, letters

to Loyalty Review Board, released June 1, 1948, and September 21, 1948.)2. "One of the oldest auxiliaries of the Communist Party in the United States."

(Special Committee on Un-American Activities, Report, March 29, 1944, p. 155;also cited in Report, June 25, 1942, p. 1.3.)

3. "Among the Communist-front organizations for racial agitation" which alsoserve as "money-collecting media" and "as special political organizing centers forthe racial minority they pretend to champion." "Works closely witli the Inter-national Labor Defense, legal arm of the Communist Party, in defense of foreign-born Communists and sympathizers." (California Committee on Un-AmericanActivities, Reports, 1947, p. 45; 1948, p. 113.)So again we discover that when Congress is petitioned, if it is, by

either the Nortliern or Southern California Committee for Protectionof Foreign Born in those names it is, in fact, being petitioned secretlyand in undisclosed manner and method by the Communist Party inthe State of California, and not by anyone else, but by the Commiesin California.Again I wish to say that Congress must know certainly, for theprotection of the American public, whose petitions they are listeningto and whose petitions are being acted upon.We do not object to the Communist Party in California or anyplace else petitioning Congress, but we do feel that in the interest offair, intelligent legislation we are entitled to know in Congress whoit is we are dealing with at all times. And that is one purpose ofthis hearing.

Mr. Leonard. Mrs. Partridge is excusedMr. Doyle. Yes.Mr. Leonard. Thank you.Mr. Arens. Mr. Louis Goldblatt.


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6878 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONKindly remain standing while the chairman administers an oath

to you.Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?Mr. GoLDULATT. 1 do.TESTIMONY OF LOUIS GOLDBLATT. ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,GEOEGE R. ANDEKSENMr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and occupa-

tion.Mr. GoLDBLATT. My name is Louis Goldblatt. I live in Mill Valley.1 am secretary treasurer of the International Longshoremen's and"Warehousemen's Union.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Goldblatt, in response toa subpena which was sei^'ed upon you by the House Committee onUn-American Activities?Mr. Goldblatt. That is right.Mr. Arens. And j'ou are represented by counsel ?Mr. Goldblatt. I am.Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself?Mr. Andersen. My name is George R. Andersen.Mr. Arens. Mr. Goldblatt, have you ever been known by any nameother than the name Louis Goldblatt ?(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Goldblatt. I decline to answer that question on the groundsaccorded me by the fifth amedment.Mr. Akens. Mr, Goldblatt, I want to read you a little testimony thatvras given under oath before the House Committee on Un-AmericanActivities by a man by the name of Louis Rosser, who laid his libertyon the line December 1, 1953. Here is the testimony, or an excerptof the testimony

:

A. Well, in my work in tlie Youn.2: Communist League during this period wefollowed the lines laid down by the Communist Party because the CommunistParty directed the Young Communist League, and, besides distributing the WhyCommunism? we put out a pamphlet, the State committee of the Young Com-munist League, called Young Communists in Action, and this pamphlet

Q. When was this?A. This was in 1934. This pamphlet was written by a very intelligent, educatedyoung Communist named Lew Miller.Q. Was that Lewis, L-e-w-i-s?A. Yes, Lewis Miller. That was his party and Young Communist League name.His real name is Louis Goldblatt. He is now the secretary-treasurer of the

International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union.(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Arens. Was Mr. Louis Ros.ser lying or was he telling the truth

with respect to yourself in this sworn testimony before the HouseCommittee on Un-American Activities in 1953?(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Andersen. I>/et me see the wliole statement, will you.(Docmnent handed to counsel for the witness.)Mr. Arens. Counsel, page 3094, the bottom of the page.Mr. Andersen. "Where does the testimony begin?Mr. Arens. The bottom of the page where 3'our finger is.Mr. Andersen. Is that where it begins ?


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6S79Mr. Arens. That is where tlie allusion begins with reference to Mr.

Goldblatt.(The witness examines document and confers with his couiiseh)Mr. Goldblatt. What was the question?Mr. Arexs. Read the question back, please, to the witness.(The pending question was read b}- the reporter.)Mr. Goldblatt. I decline to answer that question on the groundsprovided by the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Do you know Louis Rosser or have you ever knownhim?Mr. Goldblatt. Same answer.Mr. Arens. Have you ever been known by the name of Lew Miller ?Mr. Goldblatt. Same answer.Mr. Arens. Xow I want to display to you a little book written b\^

yourself under the name of Lewis MillerMr. Goldblatt. I don't like the presumptions here. Don't you makeany statement along that line. I have given 3^ou an answer to yourquestion.Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, this record reflects that this ruan has

been identified under oathMr. Goldblait^. But you are making certain statements now that Idon't like one damn bit.Mr. Arens. This man has been identified under oathMr. Scherer. I think the witness should be admonishedMr. Goldblatt. Why don't you admonish your counsel first ?Mr. Doyle. Just a minute, Mr. Goldblatt. I admonish you to ob-serve the rules of the committee and decorum of the committee and an-swer the questions when you are asked them.Mr. Scherer. I think the record should disclose that the witnessyelled in a loud contemptuous voice.Mr. Goldblatt. I would like to ask that the record also show thatthis counsel is behaving himself in a contemptible manner.Mr. Doyle. The record will not show anything of the kind because

he hasn't been. He is justMr. Goldblatt. That is merely your conclusion, Mr. Congressman.My rights are as good as yours around here.Mr. Doyle. That is right.Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest, for the attention

of the committee, that a man has identified this witness under oathas Lewis Miller.

I am now displaying to this witness a booklet written byMr. Goldblatt. Don't throw anything at me. If you want tothrow something at me, baud it.Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I want to again display to thiswitness a booklet written by him : Young Communists in Action. AndI want to invite his attention to certain language. "Young Commu-nists in Action, compiled by : Lewis Miller."

( Document marked "Exhibit Xo. 567," see appendix, pp. 8116-8132.)I want you to read certain excerpts from this booklet, aud see if thiswitness will be good enougli to confirm for the conmiittee his author-ship.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)


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6880 COMMTJNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. Arens (reading) :Today the Soviet Union stands out lilie a beacon light in a world of chaosand crisis. It is the only country in the world where the future holds promise

for the youth. * * * Unemployment and starvation do not exist, and cannotexist in the Soviet Union.

* * * we in the United States, under the leadership of the Communist Partyand the Young Communist League [shall] overthrow capitalism and build aworkers' and farmers' governmentA SOVIET AMERICA !"Mr. Witness, did you write these words I just read ?Mr. GoLDBLATT. I decline to answer under the grounds accorded meunder the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Now I would like to read still another little excerptfrom page 6 of this booklet.Mr. Doyle. What 3^ear was that written, please ?Mr. Arens. Could you tell us what year you wrote that booklet,

please, Mr. Witness ? You have the original booklet there.(Document handed to the witness.)Mr. Arens. Now I want to again invite your attention to a littleexcerpt on page 6 of this booklet written by you

:

* * * it is necessary to explain the nature of capitalist governments. Manyworkers are under the illusion that the present government is their government.Exactly the opposite is true.

I want to direct your attention to a little excerpt on page 7The working class must, therefore, form its own political party for the purpose

of destroying the capitalist state and setting up in its place a workers' and farm-ers' government.Then I want to invite your attention to a little excerpt beginning on

page 8The Young Communist League is a political organization. It is an organization

that trains the working class and student youth for struggle. * * *The Young Communist League is part of the Communist movement as a whole.Did you write those words, please, Mr. Goldblatt?INIr, Goldblatt. Same answer.Mr. Arens. Now on page 9 we see, among other language, the fol-lowing :Also, that its main job

that is, the Young Communist League's main jobis to win the masses of youth to the leadership of the Communist Party in thestruggle to overthrow capitalism and set up a workers' and farmers' govern-ment.Did you write those words, Mr. Goldblatt?Mr. Goldblatt. Same answer,Mr. Arens. Now we see here the reference to still further languageIn consequence, they are making every effort to overcome their individual

differences In order to launch a combined attack against the workers' father-land.This is with reference to the capitalistic countries.We must explain to the workers the peace policy of the Soviet Union * * *. TheU. S. S. R. is not interested in securing colonies or conquering foreign markets.Now I would like to invite your attention to a little excerpt on page

12 of this booklet written by youIn this light we


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6881Mr. GoLDBLATT. I liave told you before, Mr. Counsel, I don't lilco

those assumptions.Mr. Arens. Then deny it while you are under oath. Did you writethis booklet ?Mr. GoLDBLATT. You have had an answer to your questions. Yourassumptions here are just cheap publicity plays on your part. You

are a little two-bit publicity hound. That's all you are.Mr. Akexs. "\Ye are used to this sort of thing. We liave been upa


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6882 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. G(tLi)i'.LAiT. Tl)at is apaid professional perjurers of govern-ment never put their liberty on tlie line when they testify.Mr. SciiERER. Just a minute. Do you say that Rosser perjured him-

self? Did you say that?Mr. GoLDBLAiT. I made a certain statement because I have seendozens of perjurors used against the president of this union, usedagainst us time and time again. I have seen them trapped in perjury,caught in perjury, perjury proven against them, and never a singleaction taken against them.Mr. Schj-:rer. I ask that you direct tlie witness to answer the ques-tion wliether he said Rosser perjured himself.Mr. (toldblatt. I did not say that.Mr. ScHERER. All rig] it.Mr. Arens. You won't say it while you are under oath.Mr. GoLDBLATi'. I will Say once again I have never seen a singlepaid perjurer appearing in trials against President Bridges and

against our union ever prosecuted by the FBI and the United States.Mr. Arexs. Tell us was Rosser lyhig or was he telling the truth?Was he one of these paid perjurers ?Mr. GoLDBLATT. Same answer.Mr. Arexs. When he said he knew you as a member of the inter-national Communist conspiracy as author of this work ?Mr. GoLDBLATT. Same answer.Mr. Arexs. Now I would like to invite your attention to page 26of this publication by yourself

:

One further step is necessary to know the structure of the Young CommunistLeague. This is to understand the international connection of the Young Commu-nist Leagues throughout the worldthe unification that is completed throughthe Young Communist International. Inasmuch as capitalism is not confinedto one country, but spreads its tentacles over five-sixths of the earth's surface,it is necessary that communism be organized on a worldwide scale in order tocombat it. The international solidarity of all workers is absolutely necessary ifwe are to conduct our struggle against war and fascism, and for the defense ofthe Soviet Union.Now, while you are under oath, did you write that language ?Mr. GoLUBLATT. Same answer.Mr. Arexs. I put it to you as a fact, sir, on the basis of the sworn

testimony before this committee, and ask you to aflirm or deny thefact that you did write those words.Mr. GoLDBLAiT. Same answer.Mr. Arexs. Now we want to continue with a little of your treatise

here on page 27.Mr. GoLDBLATT. The same statement that I made before to you, too.Mr. Arexs. Thank you, sir.As we have said, the Young Communist International is composed of the YoungCommunist Leagues throughout the world. The highest body of the YCL is

the World Congress. The World Congress is made up of delegates from thevarious leagues, and lias as its job the planning of our tactics and work on aworldwide scale. Its decisions are binding on all the Young Communist Leagues,and the executive committee of the YCL, elected at the World Congress, is thebody chosen to carry out the plan of work.

I want to invite your attention still to another little excerpt fromthe treaties on page, I believe it is, 29.

L?t me just be sure so we don't have any inaccuracies here.Yes, page 29.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIOX 6883Changes will take place very rapidly within the near futureand, \inless wehave a solid, disciplined organizationMr. Andersen, '\^^lat page did you say?Mr. Akens. Pa^e 29, counsel, of his work here; about the middle

of the page I am reading' now.Mr. GoLDBLAiT. Same statement.Mr. Arens (reading) :Changes will take place very rapidly within the near futureand, unless wehave a solid, disciplined organization we will not be able to react to thesechanges and fullill our revolutionary duties.May I ask you what were these revolutionary duties ?Mr. Andersen. Aren't you reading from something else? I don't

see it on page 29 of this book.Mr. Arens. Page 29, counsel, beginning right in the middle of thepage right here.Mr. Andersen. You are looking at a different page. This is page29 [handing]. Will you point it out to me?Mr, Arens. See if you can find this page. There was a little dif-ficulty in identifying the page number at the bottom of the page.Mr, Andersen. There is a lot of difficulty attendant on all of thesethings.Mr. A_rens. I respectfulh' suggest that counsel again be admonishedihat his sole and exclusive function is to advise his witness of hisconstitutional rights.Mr. Andersen. I am trying to help.Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest he be so admon-ished.

Mr. Andersen. 28.Mr. GoLDBLATT. You are scared to death of anybody talking up

here now-.Mr. Arens. Why don't you talk up then and tell us whether or notyouMr. GoLDBLATT. I have.Mr. Arens. Whether or not you did write this article. We would

like to have you tell us. We don't want to impede your conversation atall. Tell this committee while you are under oathMr. GoLDBLATT. You have had clear answers to your questions.Mr. Arens. Give us a clear answer. Are you the author of thisarticle? Did you write the language in it?Mr. GoLDBLATT. The same answer. And that is perfectly clear.Mr. Arens. Now, counsel, have you found it ?Mr. Andersen. I have found it, but I don't know where you arereading.Mr. Arens. I will start over again, counsel, to accommodate you

:

Changes will take place A'ery rapidly within the near futureand, miless wehave a solid, disciplined organization we will not be able to react to these changesand fulflU our revolutionary duties.Do you see that language, counsel?Mr. Andersen. I have my reading glasses on. I wish you would

point it out to me. I don't belitve it is on the page. It wasn't on i)age29, and it wasn't on 28. I don't see it.


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6884 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. Arens. We will underline the first word for you, counsel, right

there. There it is. Do you see the word underlined? I will readit once more

:

Changes will take place very rapidly \Yithin the near futureand, unless wehave a solid, disciplined organization we will not be able to react to these changesand fulfill our revolutionary duties.Did you see that, counsel, there ? Do you follow me now ?Mr. Andersen. Yes, I read you.Mr. Arens. Thank you.Now, Mr. Goldblatt, kindly tell the committee while jou are under

oath about these revolutionary duties.Mr. Goldblatt. Same answer.Mr. Arens. We are not afraid of 3'our conversation. You comeahead. You said Ave Avere afraid of it. We would like to have youtalk and tell us about these revolutionary duties.Mr. Goldblatt. There are so many things I would love to talk toyou about.

jNIr. Arens. Tell us about these revolutionary duties. We Avouldlike to have you do so.

In the very next sentence Ave find this

:

After all, there are 120 million i^eople in the country, and the party has only25,000 members, and the league around 7,000.Did you write all that, Mr. Goldblatt ?Mr. Goldblatt. Same answer.Mr. Arens. Now I want to ask you about these major industries,

telling here about Iioav these 25,000 can be the most etlective.And, if I misquote you, you be sure and check me and tell me youdidn't write that.Mr. Goldblatt. Same statement, too.Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir.

First of allThis is all on the same page. Counsel, so you can follow me.

First of all, Ave must take into consideration the fact that our membershipis not large. Secondly, that there are key industries and certain key factoriesin these industries. The major industries are mine, steel, auto, textile, agri-culture, oil, railroads, and marine. These industries are the nerve centers ofcapitalism. Consequently, our main activities must be around these key points.That is pretty clear, isn't it, Mr. Goldblatt? And did you care to

elaborate on that and come forAvard Avith a further statement on that?Or are you still a little bashful about connneiiting on this book.(The Avitness confers Avith his counsel.)Mr. Goldblatt. Mr. Doyle, I may have sounded a little bit irritatedhere because I am accustomed to being treated as an xVmerican citi-

zen, not badgered and not baited, and no little phony counsel usingsarcasm in his A^oice in order to try to make an impression on the press.I insist upon dignity being accorded me here.

]Mr. Sc'herer. I move the Avitness be ejected from the courtroom.He has been Avarned.Mr. MarshalMr. Goldblatt. I Avouldn't put it past you.That's all riglit. I'll Avalk. You're all right.(Whereupon, the Avitness Avas escorted from the hearing room.)


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6886 COIVIMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONNow I -want to take, while we are getting quiet, just a few seconds to

read one paragraphand I wash I had time to read morefrom adecision in the case of Quinn v. United States^ in the Supreme Couitof the United States, October term, 1954. And this again, I think,is apropos especially in view of the attack on this committee by theACLU in the Chronicle the other day.I quote

:

There can be no doubt as to the power of Congress, by itself or through itscommittees, to investigate matters and conditions relating to contemplated legis-lation. This power, deeply rooted in American and English institutions, isindeed coextensive with the power to legislate. Without the power to investi-gateincluding, of course, the authority to compel testimony either through itsown processes or through judicial trialCongress could be seriously handi-capped in its efforts to exercise its constitutional function wisely and effectively.But the power to investigateI am deliberately reading this next statement by our highest courtso that no critic of the committee can say that I have only read

the most favorable portion of the decision. So, as a lawyer, I amdeliberately reading this paragraph. I am deliberately anticipatingwhat the critics of this committee would say if I dichi't read this nextparagraph. This committee heartily agrees with this next paragraphthe same as we did the one we just read.

I read again from the same decision

:

But the power to investigate, broad as it may be, is also subject to recognizedlimitations. It cannot be used to inquii*e into private affairs unrelated to avalid legislative purpose. Nor does it extend to an area in which Congressis forbiddeo to legislate.Mr. ScHERER. I am just wondering whether the American Civil

Liberties Union will now take a position or comment on the conductof the last witness, and whether it will attempt to defend the civilrights of the duly elected representatives of the peo]^le and of thecounsel to this committee since they have been attacked by this Com-munist who just left the stand. As usual, I think they will be strangelysilent.Mr. Lawrence Speiser. Could I comment ?Mr. Doyle. I invite that committee to print some portion at least of

the article by Mr. Goldblatt under the name of Miller, I assume, fromthe testimony.

I ask that committee to print just the kernel of that to inform theAmerican public and the people who support that committee, of theattack he made on our constitutional government.Mr. Scherer. I would like to see the American Civil LibertiesUnion, after due consideration, comment particularly for the benefitof the press which has witnessed this exhibition this morning, onthe testimony and conduct of this witness before a congressional com-mittee and his attack upon counsel of this committee.Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, may I make just one observation?

I think it should be in the record that it is the unanimous opinionof the three of us here on the subcommittee that our counsel, Mr.Arens, conducted himself in good fashion all during the hearing ofthe witness Louis Goldblatt, alias Lew Miller.Mr. Sciierer. I think the record will demonstrate that. And thosein the room who have heard Mr. Arens during the last witness' appear-ance on the stand can come to their own conclusion.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6887Mr. Doyle. I will say, Mr. Velde, I am sure we all agree with you.I wish to thank the marshal for beiii


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6888 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. ScHERER. And he Avoukl promptly take the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Yes.The next self-authenticating document is with reference to a session

wliich was held in Los Angeles in wliich Lonis Goldblatt was one of thespeakers, and this session was nnder the auspices of the Los AngelesCommittee for Protection of Foreign Born, liolding a dinner to honorits legal panel. And the speaker of the occasion was, according to thisdocument, Louis Goldblatt.

Still the next document is a reproduction of the Communist DailyWorker of New York of 1952 in which Louis Goldblatt is to be thespeaker at a session honoring lawyers who were working with the LosAngeles Committee for Protection of Foreign Born.The next document is a letterhead of the Harry Bridges DefenseCommittee, on which Louis Goldblatt is listed as one of the sponsoringmembers of the committee.The next document is a reproduction of the Daily People's "Worldof December 1951, with reference to the activities of Louis Goldblattin connection with the Progressive Party of California.The next document is a reproduction of a statement by C. J.Haggerty, secretary of the California State Federation of Labor, onthe California school. It makes reference to activities of Louis Gold-blatt in connection with the California Labor School.

]Mr. Doyle. Was that the report in which the State A. F. of L. con-demned the California Labor School ?Mr. Arens. It is a California State Federation of Labor report.Mr. Doyle. By Mr. Haggerty. And that report condemned theCalifornia Labor School as being Communist controlled, I believe.Mr. Arens. We have still another document, self-authenticating^from the Daily Worker in which a number of people back in 1942,before the expulsion of Earl Browder from the Communist Party,intervened on his behalf. Leaders of this group include, accordingto the Communist Daily Worker, Louis Goldblatt.As I say, Mr. Chairman, these are self-authenticating documents inthat they are documents which are available to the public. But thefacts which appear in them are subject to interrogation of the witness.Then we have a final document which is self-authenticating, an orig-inal documentLet Freedom Ringof the Civil Rights Congress,referring to a conference held in Chicago. This document revealsthat one of the sponsors is Louis Goldblatt, secretary-treasurer, Inter-national Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union.(Documents marked "Exhibits Nos. 569-579a, b," see appendix,pp. 8134-8146.)Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest also that the document con-cerning which I was interrogating the witness when he was expelledfrom the hearing room, this bookletI don't have it at my fingertips at

(Jio moment^be incorporated at least by reference in the record, andiilso the application card for the Young Communist League which wasinserted in the booklet calling for the establishment of a workers" andfarmers' governmenta Soviet America.Mr. Schereh. Mr. Chairman, I understand a tape recording hasbeen made, or is being made, of the witnesses before this committee. Imove that the staif l)e instructed to obtain that portion of the taperecording on which the last witness' testimony appears, and that itbe made a part of this witness' file.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6889Mr. Doyle. Without objection.Mr. ScHERER. I want it to be played to a committee that is going

(o consider legislation in the next Congress enabling congressionalcommittees to more effectively deal with such obvious contemptuousconduct as displayed by the last witness.Mr. Doyle. Without objection, it is so ordered.And I think it would be appropriate, members of the committeeand counsel, if that part of the booklet under the name of Miller,

according to the sworn testimony by Rosser, of Goldblatt's, be incor-porated in here.Without objection, that will be done.

Call your next witness.Mr. Arens. Mrs. Clair Jensen, J-e-n-s-e-n. Kindly come forward.Please remain standing while the chairman administers an oath

to you.Mr. Doyle. Mrs. Jensen, please raise your right hand.Do you solemnl}^ swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth-ing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mrs. Jexsex. I do.Mr. Doyle. May the record show that Subcommittee ChairmanDoyle is retiring from the committee at this time until reconvening

of the committee at 2 o'clock.I have a speaking engagement with a group of security officers, and

I am leaving the committee with Mr. Velde of Illinois to act in mystead, and leaving a quorum of the subcommittee of three.Therefore, a legal quorum is present.

TESTIMONY OF MES. CLAIR JENSEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,AUBREY GROSSMANMr. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and

occupation.Mrs. Jexsen. Clair Jensen, C-1-a-i-r, 1422 Seventh Street, Berkeley

housewife.{ Representative Clyde Doyle left the hearing room at this point.)Mr. Arexs. You are appearing today, Mrs. Jensen, in response to a

subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee onVn-American Activities ?Mrs. Jexsex. Yes.Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?Mrs. Jensen. Yes.Mr. Arexs. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself.Mr. Grossman. Aubrey Grossman, 1440 Broadway, Oakland.Mr. Arens. Mrs. Jensen, are you, or have you been, secretary of the

East Bay Committee for Protection of Foreign Born?(The witness confers with her counsel.)]\rrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend-ment to the Constitution.Mr. Arens. Do you honestly feel, Mrs. Jensen, if you told this

committee truthfully whether or not you are secretary to the East BayCommittee for Protection of Foreign Born you would be supply-ing information that could be used against you in a criminal ])ro-ceoding?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)


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6890 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer this question because I honest-

ly feel that answering it might lead to prosecuting action against mv-self.

Mr. Arens. Thank you, ma'am.Now, we would like to display to you, if you please, 2 or 3exhibits. The first is Tlie Light, which is a publication identified inour record ali-eady, issued by the Northern California Committee forProtection of Foreign Born. In this publication, The Light, we seehere, on page 2, the following among other things.East Bay supporters of the Northern California Committee for Protection ofthe Foreign Born are really in line for a merit award for outstanding work.Led by Clair Jensen, they have given all-out support to the "third annual

festival of nationalities" in preparing the program, in selling tickets, and incollecting fundsand so forth.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 580," see appendix, pp. 8147, 8148.)Then also I shall display to you at the same time. The Lamp of theAmerican Committee for Protection of Foreign Born, of March-May1953, the following appears

:

An East Bay Committee for Protection of Foreign Born has been establishedin Oakland, Calif.and so forth.Kindly look at those two articles and tell us whether or not you havefirsthand information respecting the establishment of the East BayCommittee foi- Protection of Foreign Born and whether or not youare one of the leaders in that group.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 581," see appendix, p. 8149.)(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer this question on the basis of thefirst amendment and also the fifth. On the basis of the first becauseI have a complete right to always speak mj^ mind and be a memberof any organization I wish to beMr. Arens. Of course you do.Mrs. Jensen. Under tlie Constitution of the United States.Mr. Arens. Except a criminal conspiracy.Now tell this committee whether or not you know a person by thename of Stanley B. Hancock.(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. Do you consider Mr. Hancock to be a person who hasCommunist affiliations?Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ?Mrs. Jensen. Do you considerMr. Arens. Please tell this committee, ma'am, while you are underoath whether you know Stanley B. Hancock.(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I take exception to the question on the basis of the

fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Mrs. Jensen, wliat was your maiden name?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. Clair Aderer.Mr. Arjcns. How do you spell the last name?Mrs. Jensen. A-d-e-r-e-r.Mr. Arens. Now I should like to read you a little testimony and

see if you can't help this Committee on Un-American Activities. It


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIOK 6891is the testimony of Stanley B. Hancock, who was a former CommunistParty functionary in San Diego County.

Q. I haud you a list of individuals who at one time lived in the San Diego area.Will you please examine the list and identify any appearing on it vrho are knownto you to be members of the Communist Party with such identifying informationregarding them as you can giveVA. I knew a party named Clair, C-1-a-i-r, .Aderer, A-d-e-r-e-r, a young lady, Ithink, from Los Angeles, who became affiliated with our San Diego CommunistParty, and it seems to me she was engaged in youth activities.Was Mr. Hancock lying or was he telling the truth when he so

testified under oath ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to ansAver on the basis of the fifth amendment

to tlie Constitution.Mr. Arens. Now do you know, or have you known, a person by thename of Daniel Taylor?

( The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment

to the Constitution.Mr. Arens. Mr. Daniel Taylor, a former functionary of the Com-mmiist Party at San Diego, testified before the House Committee onUn-American xVctivities, on April 19, 1954. In this testimony thefollowing appears:

Q. Are you acquainted with Clair Aderer?A. Yes.Q. Was that person a member of the Communist Party to your knowledge?A. Yes. She was a rank-and-tile member.Did Mr. Taylor lie when he identified you as a member of the Com-

munist Party ? Or did he tell the truth ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment

to the Constitution.Mr. Arens. Now we display to you a reproduction of the DailyPeople's World of September 1940, respecting a fund drive for theConnnunist Daily People's World. And this fund drive quotes youas folloAvs

:

Clair Aderer, who recently came from San Diego, has personally issued a chal-lenge to Vern Lym,"^ dri\e director in the south, to get her quota in first. Thischallenge has also been accepted.

Please look at this publication, if you will, ma'am, and tell thisconnnittee while you are under oath whether or not you are accuratelyidentified in that })ublication.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 582," see appendix, p. 8150.)

(The witness examines document and confers with her counsel.)ISIrs. Jensen. 1 refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Now I have a document issued by the East Bay Connnit-

tee for Protection of Foreign Born: '-Walter'-McCarran Act ProtestRallv."'

Fourteen million foreign-burn Americans are threatened by theWalter McCarran Act. Organized labor is threatened by it, accord-ing to this. And the Constitution is threatened by it.Hear Abner Green, executive secretary of the American Committeefor Protection of Foreign Born. All to be held at Herman Sons Hall.

1 This is a reference to La Verne Lym.


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6892 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONPlease tell this committee while you are under oath, if you pre-

]iared this document and if it is a true and authentic reproduction of adocument issued by the East Bay Committee.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 583,'' se appendix, p. 8151.)( The witness confers Avith her counsel.)Mr. Grossmax. May I su


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6893Mr. Arens. Was he a stool pigeon when he si^rned this original

affidavit for the Communist Party appointing- you as a delegate tothe Communist State Central Committee at Sacramento?(Document marked "Exhibit No. 585,'' see appendix, p. 8153.)

Mrs. Jensex. I refuse to answer on the basis on the fifth amend-ment of the Constitution.Mr. Arens. Noay I Avould like, if you please, ma'am, to allude to areport of a meeting of the East Bay Committee, which was heldNovember 28 of this year, just last month, the latter part of lastmonth, at the Finnish Hall, 1819 10th Street in Berkeley.Did you have charge of that meeting over there ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mr. Arens. Just about 2 weeks ago.(The witness confers with her counsel.Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the first and fifthamendments.Mr. Arens. According to the report that has come into the posses-

sion of the committee in legitimate channels

:

Clair Jensen then introduced a Reverend HerriottH-e-r-r-i-o-t-tfor some brief comments. Reverend Herriott stated tliat lie was honored to bepresent tonight. When he was asked about appearing he stated he would behappy to for he had always believed in fighting for the rights of the oppressedand downtrodden, and this was also the position followed by his church. Hestated that he believed that it was good for a person or group to have a symbolor belief to guide them, just as a ship has an emblem on its bow to guide itthrough dark, deep and troublesome waters. He wanted to read two short poemsto the audience.Are you the one who got Reverend Herriott over there to that

meeting ?JNIrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment

of the Constitution.Mr. Arens. Did you tell Reverend Herriott that you and your com-mittee are controlled lock, stock and barrel by the Communistconspiracy when you got him over there ?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fiftli amendment

to the Constitution.]Mr. Arens. Now Communist Agent Abner Green from the Amer-

ican Committee for Protection of Foreign Born gave a little speechover there just a couple of weeks ago. Isn't that true?(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-ment.Mr. Arens. Abner Green stated in this speech, did he not, that theInternal Security Act of 1950 and the old Smith Act were being usedto hamper and set back the progressive forces of this country ?Did Abner Green say that a couple of weeks ago before the EastBay Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mr. ScHERER. He said that about the Smith Act and what otheract?Mr. Arens. The Internal Security Act.


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6894 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment.Mr, Arens, And did Abner Green ^o on and talk about the presentcompany ?When Congress reconvenes there will be once again many attempts made

to change our immigration laws. This time Congressman Walter is relying onnew tactics to prevent any changes in his bill. He is using the Un-AmericanActivities Committee to argue his case. This committee is presently engagedin a road tour [laughter].Did everybodj^ laugh when Abner Green said that ?Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer that on the basis of the fifthamendment.Mr. ^'ELDE. Do you knoAv Abner Green, Witness?Mrs. Jensen. I didn't hear you.Mr. Velde. Are you acquainted with Abner Green ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Then after the laughter we see the following:

a road tour that is carrying it all over the country in an attempt to harass theCommittee for the Protection of the Foreign Born. The Un-American ActivitiesCommittee and Congressman Walter are trying to present to the Americanpeople the picture that foreign born, or at least the foreign born who object tothe McCarran-Walter bill, are Communists. The committee will come to thewest coast after holding hearings in Chicago. While in Chicago the committeewill hear witnesses from Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. The committee willbe in Los Angeles on the 5th, 6th and 7th of December. After leaving Los Angelesthe committee will come to San Francisco, then on to Seattle.Did Abner Green and you and the other comrades over at the EastBay Committee for Protection of Foreign Born hare this informationunder date of November 28, 1956, just about 2 weeks ago?(The witness confers with her counsel.Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. And then did Abner Greenand I will not undertake

to burden the record with a complete quotation here of this voluminousdocument reporting on the meetingDid Abner Green then go on and tell the comrades about Avhat allhe did to stand up to the House Un-American Activities Committeewhen we had him in Washington here about a month or so ago, or acouple of months ago? How he bested the committee, and how hediscredited the committee ?Did he tell you all about that ?(The witness confeis with her counsel.)

Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment,Mr. Ajjens, Did he tell you how he shook his finger at the com-mittee, told the committee members they Avere violating the Consti-tution of the United States, and refused to give them the informationthey required ?Mr, SciiERER. He's right about that latter part. He didn't answera question. He took the fifth amendment.Mr. Arens. Did Abner Green tell you all that ?Mrs, Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-ment to the Constitution.Mr. Arens. I put it to yo-.i as a fact, ma'am, and ask you to affirm

or deny the fact that the East Bay Committee for Protection ofForeign Born is one tentacle of the American Committee for Protec-


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6895tion of Foreign Born and that, to your certain knowledge, it is con-trolled, lock, stock, and barrel, by the Communist Party.

( The witness confers with her counsel.Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-

ment.Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist conspirato-rial apparatus ?

Mrs. Jenskn. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-ment.Mr. Arens. Now I would like to ask you, if I may, in conclusion,the names of some people who were in attendance at this little sessionover here concerning v.hich you have the dark cloud of secrecy.

Gilbert Bendix ; do you know him ?(The witness confers with her counsel.Mrs. Jensen. Do you consider that this Gilbert Bendix has Com-munist affiliations ?Mr. Arens. Ma'am, I am asking the questions here. Just tell us,Was Gilbert Bendix there ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the ])asis of the fifth amend-

ment.Mr. Arens. Grace Patridge ?Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-

ment.Mr. Arens. Was Ann Yanish there ? Y-a-n-i-s-h.Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-

ment.Mr. Arens. "Well, let's just, without being too tedious about this

matter, ask you if you will tell us who was there.(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-

ment.ISIr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude

the staff interrogation of this witness.]Mr. Vr.T.DE. An}^ questions, ]\[r. Scherer?Mr. SciiERER. The fact is that, by far, the greater percentage of

those that were at this meeting were members of the ConnnunistParty. Isn't that a fact, Witness ?(The witness confers with her counsel.)Mrs. Jensen. I refuse to answer on the basis of tlie fifth amend-ment.Mr. SciiERKR. That is all.Mr. Velde. The witness is excused. And the committee will be inrecess until 2 o'clock.(Whereupon, at 12:20 p. m., the committee was recessed, to be re-convened at 2 ]). m. this same day. Conunittee members present : Rep-

resentatives Velde and Scherer.)AFTERNOON SESSIONTUESDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1956

The subcommittee was reconvened at the expiration of the recess at2 : 35 p. m. and resumed its hearings on Investigation of CommunistPropaganda in tlie United States. For these proceedings, see testi-mony of Wilhelmina Loughrey (correct spelling Wilhelmine


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6896 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONIjoughry) and Lawrence Lowe, which is printed under the title, "In-vestigation of Communist Propaganda in the United States," Part3, pages 6135-6189, At the conclusion of their testimony, hear-ings on Communist Political Subversion were resumed.Committee members present when the subcommittee reconvened:Representatives Doyle and Scherer.Mr. Spejser. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if it would be proper to makesome commonts with respect to the comments about ACLU, on whichthey were invited, at this time ?Mr. DoYi.E. No, INIr. Speiser.Mr. Speiser. Very well.Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will beMr. Aubrey Grossman.Kindly come forward.Kindly remain standing while the chairman administers an oath toyou.Mr. DoTi,E. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole

truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?Mr. Grossman. I do.TESTIMONY OF AUBREY GROSSMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,BENJAMIN DREYFUSMr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-pation.Mr. Grossman. Just one minute, please.Aubrey Grossman, 1440 Broadway, Oakland ; attorney-at-law.Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Grossman, in response

to a subpena Avhich was served upon you by the House Committee onUn-American Activities ?Mr. Grossman. That is correct.Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?Mr. Grossman. That is correct.Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself.]\Ir. Dreyfijs. I am Benjamin Dreyfus, San Francisco.Mr. Arens. Give us just a thiunbnail sketch, please, Mr. Grossman,

of your education.Mr. Grossman. Graduated from the University of California atLos Angeles in 1932: graduated from the University of CaliforniaLaw School at Berkele}^ 1935.Mr. Arens. And when were you admitted to practice laAv?Mr. Grossman. Somewhere in the latter part of 1936 ; I believe itwas August.Mr. Arens. You are admitted in the State of California and in anyother State?Mr. Grossman. Only the State of California.Mr. Arens. Are you admitted in the Federal courts?Mr. Grossman. That is correct.Mr. Arens. And when were you admitted in the Federal courts ?Mr. Grossman. I believe soon after my admission to the bar of Cali-fornia so far as the Federal district court is concerned in this district.

I was admitted to the bar of the Supreme Court of the United Statesat some later time ; I believe around 1940.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6897]\Ir. Arexs. And as a prerequisite to your admission to practicelaw in this State did you take an oath to support and defend the Con-

stitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign anddomestic?Mr. Grossman. I don't remember the exact wording of the oath. Idon't think it read the way you describe it. But I took an oath.Mr. Arexs. Is that substantially the oath you took ?Mr. Grossman. I would rather not rely on memory.Mr. Arexs. Did you take an oath to support the Constitution ?Mr. Grossman. Yes. That I am sure of.Mr. Arens. At the time you took that oath were you a member ofthe Communist party ?(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on several groundsOne, the provisions of the first amendment Avhich protect my rightof free speech and free press ;Two, the protection of the fifth amendment insofar as the answer

to the question might conceivably lead to prosecution ; andThree, the fact that this committee is engaged in a project which is

a nonlegislative j^urpose, a project to investigate and intimidate theactivities of the people of the United States looking toward amend-ment of Federal legislation.

So, for those three grounds, I decline to answer that question.Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Grossman, do you honestly apprehend thatif you told this committee truthfully whether or not you were a mem-ber of the Communist Party at the time you took an oath and wereadmitted to practice law in these courts, you would be supplying in-foi-mation that might be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

]Mr. Grossman. Well, I don't read the United States Supreme Courtdecisions the way you do, counsel ?

I say that I, in good faith, believe that if I answer this question itmay tend to lead to prosecution of me.Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Grossman, do you know a man by the nameof Mr. Lou Eosser, R-o-s-s-e-r ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds oftlie first and fifth amendments, those particulars of them that I spec-ified.Mr. Arens. Mr. Rosser took an oath and testified while he wasunder oath that you were a Communist, a member of the Young Com-munist League in 1934."Was Mr. Rosser lying or was he telling the truth ?{ Tlie witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on tlie grounds ofthe first and fiftli amendments, those parts of those amendments tliat

I have specifically referred to.Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, Mr. Rosser testified that you were

not only a member of the Young Communist League but you were aleader of the Young Communist T^eague at Berkeley. Was he lying orwas lie telling the truth ?

]\fr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the same i^ro-visions of tlie first and fiftli amendments.

]\rr. Arexs. Mr. Rosser continued in his testimony by saying Hintafter lie had known you as a ineni])er of the Young Coninninist Leaguehe knew you as a member of the Communist Part}'.


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6898 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION"Was Mr. liosser lying at that point or was ho telling the truth?Mr. Di{i:yfi's. Excuse lue. Could you tell us -where the testimony

conies from ?Mr. Akens. I would be very glad to. I am sure Mr. OrossmanknoAvs. It was testimony of December 1, 1953.Mr. Dreyfus. Before this committee ?Mr. Arejss. Yes.Mr. Dreyfus. Thank you.Mr. Arexs. Now was he telling the truth or was he Ij'ing ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question, using as mygrounds the same provisions 1 have referred to, of the first and fifthamendments.Mr. Arens. Now do vou know a man by the name of Dickson,

D-i-c-k-s-o-n, P. Hill?Mr. Grossman. I would like to ask the committee whether the com-mittee considers that this man who has been named is a member of, oraffiliated with, any Communist organization.Mr, Arens. jMr. Chaiiinan, I respectfully suggest the witness beordered and directed to answer that question.Do you know a man b}" the name of Dickson P. Hill ?(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. In the light of the fact that I presume the commit-

tee is not playing games and must be naming this name having someevidence in mind, or some statement by this person in mind, and inlight of the fact that the committee will not tell me whether or notthey consider this man has such affiliations, I am obliged to decline toanswer this question, basing myself upon the first and fifth amend-ments as specifically referred to in previous answers.Mr. Arens. All right. I would like to read you some questions andanswers of Dickson P. Hill while he was under oath before this com-mittee on Decenlber 2, 1953.

Q. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting where the Duclos letterwas discussed?A. Yes.Q. Where was this meeting held, and who was the principal speaker?A. That was held in San Francisco, when an attorney, I believe, by the name ofAubrey Grossman, I believeGrossman, yesQ. A-u-b-r-e-y?A. That is right.Q. G-r-o-s-s-m-a-ii. Is that correct?A. Yesand William Schneiderman spoke at that meeting.Q. Did you know later, at that time or later, Aubrey Grossman to be a memberof the Communist Party?A. Yes, I did ; I mean through intraparty communications ; yes.Does that help to refresh your recollection, Mr. Grossman ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answ^er that question on the samegrounds I set out before, relying upon the first and the fifth amend-

ments.Mr. Arens. Do you recall being in a little meeting in which you andWilliam Schneiderman spoke with reference to the Duclos letter?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofAHolation of the first and fifth amendments as specifically referred toin my previous answers.Mr. Arens. Do you know Mrs. Bessie Honig, H-o-n-i-g ?


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COMMUXIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIOlSr 6S99

Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Mrs. Bessie Honig testified under oath and laid herliberty on the line and stated while she was under oath that, whileshe was a former operative for the FBI in security work, she knewyou as a Communist. Did she lie or did she tell the truth ?Mr, Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofviolation of the first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness eitherinvoke the fifth amendment properly or be directed to answer thequestion.Did Mrs. Honig lie or did she tell the truth when she named youunder oath as a member of the Communist conspiracy ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on several grounds

First, it violates my rights under the first amendment of the Con-stitutionMr. Arens. You know it doesn't violate any rights.Mr. Grossman. Just one minute, please. Just a minute, please.In particular, because it violates my right of free speech.I am also entitled to a privilege under the fifth amendment, which

I assert, the privilege of refusing to answer any question which, ifI answer it, might tend to result in a prosecution.Mr. Arens. Now I would like to invite your attention, please, sir.to several of your activities as evidenced by certain Communist j)ub-lications. First of all, have you been connected with the NorthernCalifornia Committee for Protection of Foreign Born?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on three groundsOne, that the answer to that question might tend to result in prosecu-tion. Therefore, I rely on the fifth amendment. No. 2, that myrights under the first amendment, my right of free speech and theright to petition Congress for redress of grievances, would be violatedby that question. And, No, 3, that this looks toward a nonlegislativepurpose of this committee ; to wit, the purpose I have previously re-ferred to, the purpose of attempting to investigate and impede theactivity of the people of the United States looking toward amendmentof legislation in general and, in particular, amendment of the Walter-McCarran Act.Mr. Arens. In particular what kind of people ?Mr. Grossman. All kinds of people.Mr. Arens. You wouldn't say just Communists then ; is that correct ?Mr. Grossman. I would not.Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in October of 1955 youwere the master of ceremonies at the Festival of Nationalities, heldby the Nortliern California Committee for Protection of ForeignBorn at Berkeley, Calif., at the Finnish Hall, 1819 10th Street.If that isn't true, deny it while you are under oath.Mr, Grossman, I decline to answer the question on the same groundsas my previous answer. Does the chairman of the committee wish meto itemize again my objections? Because counsel apparently wasn'tsatisfied with my brief statement,Mr, Doyle, Just make it clear you plead the fifth amendment,Mr, Grossman. All right. Exactly the same grounds as I declinedto answer the previous question.


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6900 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION

Mr. Arens. Now I would like to invite your attention to the Com-munist Daily People's World, Thursday, March 22, 1945, and readyou a little article hereAn Institute on World Security, sponsored by the San Francisco Communist

Political Association, will be held herethat is in San Franciscoat the St. Francis Hotel.Among those who are listed as leaders of this world security pro-gram sponsored by the Communist Political Association is AubreyGrossman, identified here as an attorney.Kindly look at this document and see if that refreshes your recollec-

tion with reference to your participation in this world program underthe auspices, so the article says, of the Coimnunist Political Associa-tion.

( Document marked "Exhibit No. 586," see appendix, p. 8154.)( The witness examines document.Mr. Grossman. Which part of the page there ?Mr. Arens. It is marked there. We put the red around the Com-

munist activities.Mr. Grossman. Thank you.(The witness examines document and confers with his counsel.)(Representative Harold H. Velde returned to the hearing room at

this point.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of

tlie first and fiftli amendments.Mr, Arens. Who was Earl Browder, and what was his line ? Canyou help us on that'^ Does that mean anything to you?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of

the first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Well, so we don't impede your free speech, we wantvou to speak up freely now and tell us if this account in the DailyPeople's World of Thursday, Julv 19, 1945, is truthful.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 587," see appendix, p. 8154.)Here is what the article says:

California Communists Repudiate Browder LineState headquarters of the Communist Political Association of California an-nounced today that a special State convention of the association last Sundayendorsed the main line of the draft resolution submitted by its national com-

mittee and elected 10 delegates to the special national convention of the asso-ciationand so forth.And I skip a paragraph or two, and here is what I see. And. foryour enlightenment, I have marked it in red, too.The Northern California convention elected the following delegates to the

national convention : John Hughes, Steve Nelson, Ray Thompson, WilliamSchneiderman, .Tolin Morgan, and Mickey Limawitli Aubrey Grossman as one of the alternates.Kindly look at this document and see if it is truthfully setting forthwhat liappened, and, if so, kindly tell tliis committee while you are

under oath whether or not you were the alternate delegate to that Com-munist convention.(Tlie witness examines document and confers with his counsel.)


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6901Mr. Grossjean. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of

the first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. And, comino- up chronolo


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6903Mr. Arens. Now I invite your attention to still another document,an advertisement appearing in the Daily People's World of September1946:Communist Party Friday Forum, Friday, September 13, 8 p. m.And tlie subject that is going to be discussed there, according to

this, is

:

Is Palestine the Answer?And the orator who is going to enlighten the listeners is identifiedhere as Aubre}' Grossman, educational director, San Francisco Com-munist Party. And the admission is free.Kindly look at that document, if you please, sir, and tell this com-mittee while you are under oath whether you are appropriately identi-

fied.

Mr. Grossmax. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arexs. And have you, in addition to your educational activitiesin the oratorical field, also been a writer? Do you recall any of yourpublished w^orks?(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossmax. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arexs. I observe here in the Communist Daily Worker of June1948, that is published, as we all know by the Communist Party, anarticle

:

Some of Our Fundamental Tasks, by Aubrey Grossman, organizer, Mission Sec-tion, San Franscisco.

I will read just a little of it here, and see if it refreshes your recollec-tion.

As the preconvention resolution points out, our party has tremendous tasksbefore it. Task I is to stop world war III before it develops. Though theAmerican peoi)le do not want war, they have been misled into support of theMarshall plan which constitutes the highway to world war III.Then I observe here frequent references in the article to "our party"

and:Our experiences today in the United States demonstrate that "only a partywhich has mastei-ed the Marxist-Leninist theory can confidently advance andlead the working class forward." What is true for the party is true for eachindividual member. Marxist-Leninist theory will enable us to "understandthe inner connection of events, to foresee their course, and to perceive not onlyhow and in what direction they are developing in the present, but how and inwhat direction they are bound to develop in the future." That is why we muststudy the history of the CPSU.

Tlie ('(Mnmunist Party of the Soviet Union.AA'hile you are under oath here, Mr. Grossman, won't you unburdenyourself with some of these experiences wliicli you indicated liere

will lead the world toward peace and serve your (xovernment in thatcapacity ?(Document marked "E.xliibit No. 592," see appendix, p. 8157.)(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossm.\x, Does the chairman rule that is a question ?Mr. Arens. It is a request if you would kindly do so.Mr. Grossman. Is it a question ?


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6904 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. Doyle. You have heard what counsel stated. It is a request.Mr. Arens. Tell us if that is what you said. If it is, tell us all about

this Communist Part}' that you are commending there as the vanguardof the working class.

(The witness confers with his counsel.Mr. ( trossman. I do not heed the request.Mr. Arens. Did you write the article appearing in the document

to which I was just alluding and which is now displayed to you?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer the question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Now we have still another document here, a list ofsigners of a statement defending the Communist Party.

It appears by this article that the Communist Party is beingpersecuted in the United States, and its constitutional rights are beingimpeded, and apparently the rights of its free speech likewise. Anumber of people sign a statement protesting the treatment of thisinnocent little party. And in the list of people here who are defend-ing the Communist conspiracy we see Aubrey Grossman of San Fran-cisco, Calif.Kindly look at that and tell the committee whether or not yourecall that enterprise of yourself.

(See exhibit No. 58e, appendix, p. 7192.)(The witness examines document and confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. What was the question?Mr. Arens. Did you sign the statement whicli appears there?Mr. Grossman. I did.Mr. Arens. Thank you sir. At whose solitation did you sign it?Do you recall ?Mr. Grossman. I have no recollection whatsoever.Mr. Arens. Now I would like to innate your attention to still an-

other document.Mr. Grossman. Just a minute. I wonder if this may be introducedin the record.Mr. Arens. We have a general order, Mr. Grossman, for all of thesedocuments to be introduced in the record.Mr. Grossman. Thank you. Would you like to read it ?Mr. Arens. The next one I will read and we will introduce it in the

record, too.Mr. Grossman. Would you like this read ?Mr. Arens. Did I give a fair summary of it ?Mr. Grossman. Would you like me to read it ?Mr. Arens. No. It takes too much time. I am not taking timeto read all of this.

Mr. Grossman. You don't want to read it ?Mr. Arens. I would suggest not.Mr. Grossman. Mr. Chairman, may I read it in the record ?Mr. Arens. It will all be in the record.Mr. Grossman. All of it is going in the record, but still a good dealof it has been read by counsel.Mr. Arens. My mistake. You take issue with me ?Mr. Grossman. Does the committee not want me to read this inthe record ?Mr. Doyle. It will all go in the record. I will assure you of that.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6905Mr. Grossman. May I read it in the record ?Mr. Doyle. There is no sense in taking 20 or 30 minutes.Mr. Grossman. It won't take that long.Mr. Doyle. We will get it all.Mr. Grossman. Perhaps the press is interested in the statement.Mr. Doyle. The press can have it and read it. They can use it rightnow if they want. Put it over on their table. They can get it.Mr. Arens. Go ahead and put these others over there, too, please.Now I want to invite your attention to this one, and see if you want

to take time on this one.I will read a good deal of this one. It is short. We can cover this

one pretty quickly.Grossman to Head Coast Civil Rights Congress.This is in the Daily Worker of January 1949.Aubrey Grossman, 37-year-old attorney who left an important law practice

to educate and organize in the struggle for human rights, has been appointedPacific Coast Director for the Civil Rights Congress.Grossman, who has been associatetl intimately with the battle for civilrights in California for more than a decade, said today, upon announcementof his appointment, his first job will be coordination of the campaign to defendthe twelve indicted Communist leaders whose trial opens in New York January 17.His biggest civil rights case was the deportation case of Harry Bridges, whichhe feels is "a landmark in establishing the rights of non-citizens and the con-stitutional rights of aliens in general." He also helped establish the invalidityof autipicketing ordinances and represented hundreds of union members in casesarisin;;- out of the labor struggles of the 1930's.

Versatile (he played halfback and fullback for UCLA in 1929, 1930, and 1931),Grossman was one of the founders of the Bay Area Council Against Discrimina-tion and of its successor, the Council for Civic Unity. He was chairman of theLawyers Committee that drew Governor Olson's legislative program in 1939.He was an active member of the Simon J. Lubin Society, an organization in-terested in the State's agricultural problems.He left his law practice in 1915and I want to emphasize the last couple of lines now, if you please,sir.He left his law practice in 1945 to become a full-time officer of the CommunistParty of San Francisco.Now would you kindly look at that article and see if that is a

trueI don't mean to be throwing it at you, Counsel. I am trying to get

it over this wire liere.Mr. Dreyfus. I appreciate your difficulty here.Mr. Arens. Kindly look at that article and see if that is a true andcorrect biography of your principal activities in the course of the lastseveral years.(The witness examines document and confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer the question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Now here is another article that is rather interesting.It is about the FBI. You know what the FBI is, do you not, Mr.Grossman ? That is the intelligenceMr. GuossMAN. The answer is yes.

IMr. Arens. The intelligence agency.Mr. Grossman. Yes.


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6906 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONMr. Arens. The greatest intelligence agency that ever existed.Mr. Grossmax. Is that a question ?Mr. Arens (reading) :If the FBI should bother you

The civil rights expert tells people what to do if this great FBI shouldbother them.This is in the Daily People's World of May 6, 1949.If the FBIMr. DoYi.E. "V\^at was that, please ?Mr. Arens. The title of this article is

:

If the FBI Should Bother YouCivil Rights Expert Tells What To DoThe Civil Rights Congress warned progressives today to beware FederalBureau of Investigation agents and their "investigations."Aubrey Grossman, West Coast director of the congress, said that after thor-ough discussion with attorneys, the congress was advising those approached by

the G-men to refuse to answer any questions."Any person these agents seeli to question or have a discussion with has theright to refuse to talk to themand so forth. I will not take time to read the entire article.But do you have a recollection, as the west coast director of theCivil Rights Congress, of issuing that little instruction to all of thecomrades with respect to how they should react to the FBI ?(Document marked "Exhibit No. 593," see appendix, p. 8158.)(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossbian. I decline to answer the question on the gi-ounds

of the first and fifth amendments.Mr. Velde. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel.Mr. Grossman, did you know that you were being investigated by

the FBI?Mr. Grossman. Did I know when ?Mr. Velde. You said the FBI, what kind of an organization it was

in answer to a question by counsel.Did vou know you were beine investigated by theFBI ?Mr. Grossman. Are you telling me that I was ?Mr. Velde. No. I am just asking you if you knew whether youwere or not.

I think you know that I know that you are a Communist and thatyou were a Communist for a long time because I was a member ofthe FBI stationed here in San Francisco back in the days when youwere doing all these things that were designed to destroy our Constitu-tion.Mr. Grossman. And what is the question ?Mr. Velde. Did vou know that vou were being investigated by theFBI?fThe witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Scherer. When he issued that statement?Mr. Velde. Yes. That is ricfht.Mr. Grossman. The answer is "no."Mr. Doyle. I think tho committee is fortunate to have Mr. Velde's

experience as a former FBI agent on the committee in attendance atthis hearing.Mr. Arens. Here is a little thing. May I have that exhibit?Mr. Dreyfus. This one?


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVEKSiON- 6907Mr. Arens. Yes. Has he answered the question with reference to

this ?Mr. Grossman. The answer is "no.'*Mr. Arexs. Have you answered the question with reference to the

attack on the FBI?Mr. Dreyfus. That was answered.Mr. Grossman. I declined to answer tliat one.Mr. Arens. Here is somethino: I have a Httle difficulty with. Maybe.you can help us.In this exhibit which I have just displayed to you, I see an attackon the FBI with reference to informers and the like. Then I see herethis question posed under the authorship and byline of Aubrey Gross-man. Pacific coast refjional director, Civil Rio;hts Congress.Here is the questionDo Stool Pigeons Rate Civil Rights Defense?Could I ask that questionIn your opinion, do stool ])igeons rate any kind of civil rights?Or are civil rights onlv for Conmiunists ?( The witness confers with his counsel.)]\[r. GRoss3rAN. The question is, Do stool pigeons rate civil rights

defense ?Mr. Arens. That is right.Mr. Grossman. The answer is that stool pigeons are generally per-jurers, are generally paid perjurers, are people, no matter what line

they may tell on the stancl, who need not fear prosecution. And Ican give you the names and the dates and the cases if the committeewishes to hear it.Mr. Arens. Do youMr. Grossman. Just one minute. Let me finish my answer.And I say that those people who will perjure themselves under oath

in order to put other Americans in jail or have them deported, who willlie under oath for those purposes, cannot, under any stretch of theimagination, deserve civil rights or have their civil rights defended.As a matter of fact, their civil rights never can come mider attack.Mr. Velde. "V^Hiat stool pigeon put you in the Communist Party?Wliolied?

. Mr. Grossman. What are you assuming, Mr. Velde, in your ques-tion ?Mr. Velde. You just referred to stool pigeons that lie under oath.Mr. Grossman. What is the question ?Mr. Velde. During 1943 and 1944 and 1945, will you tell this com-

mittee whether or not you were a member of the Communist Party?Mr. Grossman. Is that the question now ?Mr. Velde. Yes.Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the groundsof the first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Were you a stool pigeon against yourself here when youwrote this little aiticlc about the comrades and "our party" and whatyou are doin g as a comrade ? Were you a stool pigeon then ?Just answer that question and help us on what is a stool pigeon,

and tell this committee now while you are under oath Avere you a stoolpigeon on yourself?


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6909Kindly tell us whether or not that publication was a stool pigeon

or was it telling the truth when it said you were going there to theeast to assume your new responsibilities ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first andfifth amendments.Mr. Arens. I want to invite your attention to still another document.This is just before the attack at Pearl Harbor, September 4, 1940.It is the Communist Daily Worker in New York.We see here the headline reading as follows : "GB Prominent LawyersHit Draft Bill as un-American, un-Constitutional." And these 63lawyers are all part of an emergency peace mobilization, and theygo and protest to the House Military Affairs Committee. The sub-head tells about prominent signers and participants in this emergency

peace mobilization, including one Aubrey Grossman.Kindly tell us if you recall your participation in that enterprise.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 596," see appendix, p. 8162.)(The Avitness examines document and confers with his counsel.)Mr. Gross]max. I decline to answer the question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. You will observeMr. Grossman. Wait a minute. Excuse me. And the additionalgrounds that it violates my right to engage in legislative activitiesunder the protection of the first amendment and the ninth amendmentof the Constitution.Mr. Arens. You were strong for peace and strong for disarma-ment here on September 4, 1940. Do you recall any change in your

position after Hitler attacked the Soviet Union?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer the question on the grounds ofthe first and fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Now we see here still another document from the DailyWorker in 1953.We are moving along and won't take too much longer, Mr. Gross-man.

It seems, according to this article, 302 delegates lay plans for a bigMay Day parade in New York Cit}'. Among those who are leadei^in the arranginents, is one Aubrey Grossman of the Civil RiglitsCongress down there. They are going to have a big May Dayparade to coincide Avith the May Day in Moscow.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 597," see appendix, p. 8163.)(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Arens. Nowdid you answer the question ?Mr. Grossman. Was there a question? I thought it was a speech.Let's have it read back.Mr. Arens. Why don't you make a speech and tell us whether or notyou were one of the leaders in this May Day parade in New York City?We don't want to interfere with your freedom or right to petitionCongress or anything else. You just tell us now. Did you do that?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and

fifth amendments.Mr. Arens. I have still another exhibit from the Communist DailyPeople's World: Meet the People Around the Bay, with -reference tothe Council for American-Soviet Friendship and one of its big affairs.Among those who w^ere participants in the activities of the Council forAmerican-Soviet Friendship is Aubrey Grossman.


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6910 COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSIONKindly look at that document and see if it refreshes your recollec-

tion with reference to your participation in that affair.(Document marked""Exhibit No. 598," see appendix, pp. 8163, 8164.)(The witness examines document.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and

fifth amendments.Mr, Arens. Now I have a document here from the Daily People's"World about a symposium of the California Labor School and one ofthe big forums is going to be on the development of American democ-racy along certain lines. Participating is going to be Aubrey Gross-man, attorney for the CIO, member of the legal staff of the NationalAssociation for Advancement of Colored People, and member of theCouncil for Civic Unity of San Francisco.Kindly look at this document and see whether or not you were hon-

estly and accurately identified there in thise symposium at the Cali-fornia Labor School.(Document marked "Exhibit No. 599," see appendix, p. 8164.)

(The witness examines document and confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first andfifth amendments.Mr. Arens. Here is something that is a little curious. We havehere another exhibit from the Communist Daily People's World. Ithas a quotation from the father of this country, George WashingtonPromote then as an oJiject of primary importance, institutions for tlie general

diffusion of l^nowleclge. In proportion as the structure of a government givesforce to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.Apparently that is from his Farewell Address. That is here at the

top of the picture. Below that picture we see the following

:

Leaders in the arts, professions, as well as the vital-to-labor trade-union field,make the faculties of the State labor schools outstanding among American edu-cational institutions. Shown above are (left) Aubrey Grossman, labor attorneyand expert in civic affairs, who'll teach at the San Francisco schoolthen they tell about others wlio are going to teach at the CaliforniaLabor School in Snn Francisco.Kindly look at this document and see if you recollect your profes-sorial activities as recounted there in that Daily People's World.

(Tlie witness examines document and confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first andfifth amendments.

IMr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Gregori Kheifets?Mr. Grossman. I would ask the committee whether that man is, inthe committee's opinion, affiliated or was affiliated with Communistgroups.Mr. Arens. Not only that, he has been identified as an espionageagent. Do you know him ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofthe fifth amendment.

]Vfr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist conspiracy?('The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of

the first amendment.


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COMMUNIST POLITICAL SUBVERSION 6911Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that concludes the

staff interrogation of this witness.]\Ir. DoTLE. ]Mr. Velde. any questions?Mr. Velde. Yes, I have several questions.Mr. Grossman, did you know Gregori Kheifets?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of

the fifth amendment.Mr. Velde. Did .you know that he was the Eussian consul ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds ofthe fiftil amendment.Mr. Velde. Did you knoAv Steve Nelson ?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of

the fifth amendment.Mr. Velde. T don't think I will be violating the lawyer-client priv-ilege in asking this question :What other clients have you represented who have been chargedwith violation of any of our internal-security laws besides Mr. HarryBridges?(The witness confers with his counsel.)Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the groundsthat it violates the attorney-client privilege.

jVfr. Velde. Noav m.ay I ask you another question."What do you expect to gain in the future by being a member ofthe Communist Party or member of the Comnninist conspiracy?Mv. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the groundthat it violates my rights under the fifth amendment.Mr. Velde. Do you know Louise Bransten, now Louise Berman?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that question on the groundsof the fifth amendment.

]Mr. A'elde. Did you, on May 12, 1944, attend a meeting betweenGregori Kheifets, yourself, and John Tripp McTernan, M-c-T-e-r-n-a-n, at the home of Louise Bransten here in San Francisco?Mr. Grossman. I decline to answer that c[uestion on the groundsof the fifth amendment.Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, I don't have any more questions to askof this witness except to say this much, that I am satisfied that Mr.Grossman has been identified, and I can identify him, as a formermember of the Communist Party. I am satisfied that he is a memberof the Communist Party at the present time by his demeanor in an-swering the questions here. As a professional man, I am satisfied thatMr. Grossman is very dangerous to the internal security of our coun-try. I hope that the FBI and all the other security agencies that wehave investigating acts that are designed to overthrow our form ofgovernment continue to be on the alert on Mr. Grossman.Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer, any questions or statement?

]\rr. Scherer. No statement.You are now a practicing lawyer here ?Mr. (trossman. That is correct.Mr. Doyle. May I be privileged to just take a minute.Are you a member of the American Bar Association?Mr. Grossman. Xo, sir.Mr. Doyle. I wish to say that your declaration here, that, beca