Collective interviews 1924 1926

Collective Interviews

by

Hazrat Inayat Khan

in the years 1924-1925-1926

Collective Interviews 1924-1925-1926

International Headquarters of the Sufi Movement, Banstraat 24, 2517 GJ Den Haag 2

Foreword

This is the first time that the Collective Interviews are printed in book form, for which were used the

Collective Interviews of Murshida Shahzadi. However, when I discovered that several of the Collective

Interviews were also in the series Sangathas, and the Sangathas were already digitalized, I copied

those Sangathas into the Collective Interviews, so that there was less typing to do.

It is only afterwards that I discovered that the Sangathas were edited differently from the Collective

Interviews. So how do we know what is more true to the original? The Nekbakht Foundation is working

on this question – has given out several books already - and will certainly also come to the Collective

Interviews. So I decided to leave things as they are now, and mention that when you see the word

“SaGa” with a number under a heading, it means that those are the Sangatha words.

Hamida Verlinden,

July 2004



Table of Contents (* = Collective Interviews, the others are classes)

Foreword 1 Collective Interviews 1924

17.06.24 Class 8

17.06.24 * Making a building 10

24.06.24 * Right attitude 12

24.06.24 Class: signs of progress 14

01.07.24 * Attitude 16

01.07.24 Distinguishing between reality and individuality. 18

08.07.24 The exercises considered as a winding. 21

08.07.24 * The process of melting 22

15.07.24 * The mureed: concerned with the own process or with helping? 23

15.07.24 Receipt in higher initiations. 25

22.07.24 * What offering does the Sufi Message bring to the modern world? 26

22.07.24 A seeker on the path of Truth. 27

01.08.24 The fundamental principle of esoteric teaching 29

05.08.24 * Tact 30

08.08.24 Discerning the condition of others 32

12.08.24 Five stages of life 33

13.08.24 * Mentality of mureeds 35

15.08.24 The continuity of meditation 36

18.08.24 * There are many different paths 38

19.08.24 It is most essential for my mureeds 40

20.08.24 * Attitude towards co-mureed 42

20.08.24 The creation of the battery of power 43



25.08.24 * A mureed who is on the path must have. 45

26.08.24 * Our happiness and unhappiness 47

27.08.24 * It must be known that exercises 49

01.09.24 * The main principle in the life of a Sufi 51

02.09.24 * Spirituality is the natural nobleness 52

03.09.24 * Not showing admiration for Murshid 53

05.09.24 The nature of reflection 54

09.09.24 The way of the Salik and the way of the Rind 55

10.09.24 * Attitude against people aggressive to the Message 57

Table of Contents 58 Collective Interviews 1925

01.07.25 Practices to help a person in speaking 60

08.07.25 Repetitions of Wazifa 63

10.07.25 External Zikars 72

15.07.25 The different forms and figures 77

17.07.25 On speaking 79

22.07.25 On speaking 83

22.07.25 Speaking 85

4.07.25 The idea of conducting our study groups 89

29.07.25 Phrases 94

05.08.25 Psychological points to remember in speaking about Message 96

05.08.25 Q & A: class 97

07.08.25 No rules for all 101

12.08.25 About psychology of writing letters 107

14.08.25 About the Collective Interviews 111



19.08.25 Rhythm 113

21.08.25 Concentration 116

26.08.25 The path of esotericism 118

Summerschool 1925 Zikar 121

Summerschool 1925 External Zikar 123

02.09.25 Practices 126

09.09.25 Memory 130

29.10.25 Suggestion, power of the sacred scriptures 134

03.11.25 Stones 137

10.11.25 Ecstasy – square - triangle 140

12.11.25 The Message 142

12.11.25 Collective Interview 144

17.11.25 Sufi training: imitation of the teacher 148

19.09.25 Questions and Answers 154

??.11.25 Problems that make difficulties 159

Table of contents. 162 Collective Interviews 1926

18.6.26 To practice the presence of God 164

21.6.26 The signs of the instruction papers 170

23.6.26 Thought-reading 1 175

25.6.26 Instruction papers 181

About practices 181 20 breaths of purification: 181 Wazifa: 182 The phrases: 182 External Zikar: 182 Concentration: 183



Saum and Salat: 183

28.6.26 The attitude of the mureed 187

30.6.26 What is Collective Interview. 196

2.7.26 The contact with Murshid 203

7.7.26 Clairvoyance 206

12.7.26 Postures 213

14.7.26 Thought-reading 2 221

16.7.26 The Sufi point of view 225

19.7.26 Six kinds of mureeds / silent teaching 229

21.7.26 Dreams 234

23.7.26 The effect of thought on food and drink. 239

26.7.26 The spirit of the mureed 244

28.7.26 Personal Power 249

30.7.26 the Sufi Message as the rain of this year, this season 252

2.8.26 The giving of Bayat / The living dead 253

4.8.26 One need not trouble about anybody’s fault 257

6.8.26 Secrecy on the path of truth. 261

9.8.26 Attitude of taking people in the Sufi Order 266

11.8.26 Magnetism 270

13.8.26 Relation between mureed and Murshid 275

16.8.26 The Healing Breath 280

18.8.26 The difference between mystic power and magic. 292

20.8.26 300

23.8.26 Concentration for development of the spirit. 305



25.8.26 Diet 312

27.8.26 The different gestures in the prayers. 319

30.8.26 About exercises 323

01.9.26 The difference between Clairvoyance and Mediumistic Knowledge. 327

03.9.26 The Sufi manner of sympathy 333

06.9.26 The uniformity of instruction papers. 338

08.9.26 Distinction of the words which have opposite meaning 346

10.9.26 Things to remember 351



17.06.24 Class

Class for candidates for higher initiation by Pir-o-Murshid Hazrat Inayat Khan,

Tuesday, June 17th, 1924

(SaGa III, pl. 18 - Tassawuf)

Esotericism must be considered something beyond conception. That something which is in conception

is no esotericism; it is exotericism. Often I am asked by the workers of the Sufi Order: “If anyone asks

us what is Sufism, what shall we answer? What are its tenets, what are its principle doctrines,

dogmas?” We may give the Objects of the Movement, the Thoughts of the Sufis, the ideas from our

publications; but that is not the answer. If Sufism was tangible then it would not be Sufism. All different

ideas that you receive from your initiator, they are the initiator’s ideas, they are not Sufism. You may

give them to another, because it is something you have benefited with yourself as Sufism. Yet for you

to understand for yourself you must know that Sufism is beyond all ideas. Therefore if it came to argue

on this point with those belonging to the occult, mystical, esoteric schools of different denominations

on the point of the difference between their own philosophy and Sufism you will find yourself at a loss

if you will discuss on comparative doctrines, dogmas or principles. For no doctrines, dogmas or

principles Sufis stands, calling them its own. The Sufi says: “Wisdom does not belong to me alone, or

my sect; it cannot be labeled with the word “Sufi”. Wisdom belongs to the human race, wisdom

belongs to God. I, as any other being, desire to understand better, every day more and more. And it is

my pleasure and privilege to share what I consider good and beautiful with my fellowmen”. Never in

the history of the world has Sufism been made a sect which wanted to make many of the same sect. It

has never been, nor will it ever be. It is an esoteric school of long tradition; it remains as such. Yes, it

happens that the Message born of the school is destined to reach far and wide. That gives us a

different task, of spreading the Message; which stands apart from the Sufi order which is our esoteric

school. It has been our honor that the seekers came to us in all ages; we did not go to seek them; and

this dignity we must always maintain.

Now the question is that how shall we make for ourselves intelligible what Sufism is; even if we did not

try to tell it fully to the non-initiated. It may be answered that Sufism is the essence of religion. It is like

the soul, not the body. And as we cannot grasp the soul as something material, so we cannot imagine

the essence which is spirit. Only what can give us an insight into what is Sufism is the result we

perceive from it. And what result we attain? It is a gradual unfoldment of our soul. It is the light rising

within ourselves, and illuminating for us the life outside. It is the joy that we feel at experiencing all the

beauty; and our horizon of a sublime vision being every day wider. To become more appreciative to all

that is good and beautiful. And so we express it in our thought and feeling and action. We feel a

greater energy, courage, power, patience, hope. Life becomes for us worth living. We may not find

ourselves in this world at home, but Sufism makes our visit here on earth more enjoyable.

Nevertheless, the homesickness is felt ever so much more keenly. We feel in ourselves greater power,

growing inspiration, greater self-control, and expression of our soul in all things we do. We feel



harmonious within ourselves, and comfortable in our atmosphere. It is not the medicine that counts. It

is the result that it produces that counts. Sufism is the process by which this above said result is

perceived. By making it doctrines, dogmas, tenets, principles we only make it what it is not. The simple

ones who are not content with little explanation or with no explanation may be left to please

themselves. It is not by any rigid principle that we have to attract humanity; it is by our own being.



17.06.24 * Making a building

(SaGa I, 79)

My mureeds,

The work which we are doing just now is that of making a building, a building in which to preserve the

Message for the time when humanity will be wakened to appreciate it, to value it; that it may not be too

difficult to find it, for it is preserved somewhere in the building so made. And what is this building? It is the

building which may be called in other words an embodiment of the Illuminated souls. Its parts and

particles are those who are born to serve God and humanity, who are meant to give their life to the

service of the Cause. And it is this building which is a sacred temple, and it is this building to which our life

and our work is dedicated.

If one asked, “How must the devotion of a Mureed be expressed toward Murshid, toward the Cause?” The

answer will be, “The best way of expressing devotion is by understanding Murshid and by understanding

the Cause.” One may ask, “But we serve.” Yes, service in this Cause is most appreciated and valued at

this time of need when the number of servers is so very small. Nevertheless service without

understanding Murshid and understanding the Cause may not always be satisfactory. Many work at a

building, but the architect makes a plan. If every worker of the building had his own plan and his choice of

work, the building would be broken to pieces before it was erected. Desire for work is not enough, the

understanding of the law of harmony with one’s co-workers is most necessary.

People will say, But I cannot understand why in this beautiful building, where there should be a carved

pillar, you have put a simple wood, why, when the floor is so well made, the frames of the windows are

still left unfinished? Why when the walls are so nicely made, the ceiling seems to be incomplete? Why,

when the house is so nicely painted, there is a fence standing around the house? I will only answer, as an

architect would answer, that: The building is not yet finished; you are too unjust to form your opinion upon

something which is not yet complete. Another one comes along and says, I have a beautiful pillar, carved

nicely, I had it made for your beautiful building. I appreciate the great love and I value that pillar, which is

brought with the desire to help. But at the same time I cannot use it when I have my plan before me.

When I have my plan before me I cannot accept any pillar brought even with great love and devotion by a

person who says, Remove this fence and put this pillar it is beautifully carved.

This temple of the Sufi Movement, which we build may not be compared with the material building. It is a

living building; and what is the nature of a living being? All that does not belong to him, to his system, to

his being, that does not remain with him, it falls out. And so this living building will only hold that which

belongs to it, that which is fitted in it, that which is meant to be a part of it. That which does not belong to it

cannot endure, will not remain there. If it existed today, tomorrow it will fall away; it must fall away, it

cannot remain. It must be seen at the time of its finishing, when it is completed. It is that time to form an



opinion if it is made right or wrong, not just now. Everything in its beginning has its shortcomings. A

building which will keep the Message of God for years to come cannot be made in a day; it takes a

lifetime.

Then what remains is one thing, and that is trust in the architect. You can trust the architect if you

understand his point of view, if you cannot understand his point of view then everything he does is wrong.

Since I have no doubt about the great devotion and sincerity that my Mureeds possess I must say that our

struggle is great; no end of disturbing influences and obstacles and oppositions we meet, and we cannot

help meeting them. And, with all this, we shall go on, we shall never be disappointed; we never shall give

up our task. But at the same time one thing must be understood, that against all difficulties for us to stand

together we want one thing, and that is harmonious co-operation; and that is only possible in

understanding Murshid and the Cause.



24.06.24 * Right attitude

(SaGa II, 28)

What do I expect from my mureeds? I expect a right attitude towards that motive for which they have

taken this journey in the spiritual path. What is the right attitude? In the first place to be clear as to

their spiritual motive. It is not promised to my mureeds that they will be made wonderful people, that

they will work wonders, that they will perform miracles, that they will make prophecies, that they will

show phenomena, that they will caste out devils. It is not meant that they should see colors or lights,

or phantoms, fairies or houris, in order to become spiritual. It is not wished for that my mureeds will

become so learned that they will dispute and argue, and gain a success in arguments and disputes.

What we mean by spiritual attainment is that my mureeds will try and make themselves best fitted to

serve their fellowman. If I, at the end of my life, could claim this, I will be most satisfied, and the

purpose of my life will be fulfilled. And if I will see this motive, in whatever degree, being fulfilled in the

lives of my mureeds, it is this which will bring me satisfaction.

You may ask, “How are we to make ourselves fitted for service? Do you give us any studies for it, do

you give us some exercises?” The answer is, Yes; but even the studies and exercises will not make

an effect if we shall not try ourselves to make our attitude towards our fellowman right. By all occult

studies, mystical attainments, by the knowledge of philosophy, by piety and by religion, what we arrive

at is only one thing, and that is to be best suited to serve our fellowman. And if we do not attain this,

then nothing else has been profitable, we have accomplished nothing.

Buddha has taught us as the main principle of all religion harmlessness. But how is that harmlessness

to be learnt? By considering the feeling of all those we come in contact with in our everyday life. If you

will express yourself thoughtlessly, many will take it quietly, and one may go on being thoughtless, not

knowing that one has caused anyone hurt or harm. I have not advised you yet to go and work in an

antivivisection league, to prevent cruelty to animals, for there is so much to be done for human beings.

If we cannot consider our brother, we will not consider our neighbor. If we will not be conscientious

with regard to our fellow-creature, we shall not be able to consider our duties towards the lower

creation. How often unconsciously we hurt and harm one another, by just a little thoughtlessness, a

lack of consideration. If we have no consideration for others, with all our knowledge, goodness, and

piety we cannot prove spiritual. The struggle of life is such that it gets on a person’s nerves; and,

without meaning to, he moves carelessly, not knowing if his movements cause a hurt or harm to those

who come in his way. I will repeat the saying in the Gayan, “My bare feet, walk gently that the thorns

may make no complaint, saying: We were trampled on thoughtlessly.”

If you will receive any harm or hurt from others, know that is the nature of life, you cannot expect

better. You must be thankful that it is not more; it could have been worse. Take it quietly, and veil it. It

is not for those who walk in the spiritual path to take revenge, to return evil for evil. If that is done then



what difference there is between the spiritual and material? It is true that all the pleasure and pain that

comes to man, it all comes from God, but it comes through the medium-ship of man very often. Will

you, therefore, be the instrument for punishment? No. You will be the means of reward. In this way

you will be different from others. It is this quality in my mureeds which will bring me satisfaction.

Furthermore if evil is returned for evil, it only increases evil more and more in the world. Therefore to

return good for evil is the only thing that one must try to do. A question arises how evil must be

answered. The answer is, with forgiveness. One might ask, “If the evil was greater than the

forgiveness we have, then how shall we answer it?” Answer it with tolerance. But if one thought that

the evil was greater still than the tolerance one has, “How shall one answer it?” The reply will be,

“Answer it with indifference”. Life is an opportunity, and every moment that is spent thoughtlessly in

causing hurt or harm, moved by passing emotions and impulses, is lost, it will never come again. The

best way of taking advantage of this opportunity that we have of living under the sun, is to do our best

to bring pleasure to another in thanksgiving.



24.06.24 Class: signs of progress

One often notices a tendency in the traveler on the spiritual path, who considers the change of

spiritual practices as a sign of progress. But this is an error. And it comes from the habit that one has

made by studying the knowledge of the outer world, as it is taught in the schools and colleges and

universities, one thing after another. So he is accustomed to feel that by getting a new practice he is

advancing. In reality it is quite the opposite. It is not the change of practices, it is the continuity of them

which brings it to a desired result.

One sees the same in music. The best player of music, an instrument, considers the scales as the

most important thing to play. The others will go on from one music to another, but the best player will

still continue his scales. So it is with the singer. It is not by changing of the song that the singer

becomes great. It is by singing the same song more and more efficiently that brings the singer to

fame. In this is the secret of spiritual progress.

Most often it is the lack of patience that keeps a person back from advancing. Spiritual practices in

time become a capital that brings an interest. This interest makes the capital larger and larger. In order

to be rich, therefore, one does not need a new coin every day, the same coin can make one rich. The

benefit that one derives from a practice in the first month that he has begun it, is much smaller

compared to the benefit he derives by the same practice in the next year. And the way the benefit

increases cannot be explained in words; it becomes unimaginably greater, which comes as the reward

of patience.

It is not the change of practice which is necessary to progress; it is one’s belief in the effect of the

practice, it is the centralizing of one’s mind upon it, it is the hope with which one looks forward to the

effect that the practice brings. When a person says, “No, I don’t feel anything with this practice”, he

may just as well go on saying that, and he will never feel anything from it. The fact is that it is not that

the practice does not bring to him anything, it is that he derives unconsciously what the practice will

bring to him. There is sometimes money invested which does not bring interest for some time. That

does not mean that the money is lost. The day when the interest will commence, it will come to you.

Therefore, what is needed is patience in the absence of the effect that one expects to derive from it.

I was telling a story which I shall repeat again. It is a story of a sage Bullah Shah, who is know in

Multan, near Punjab, to have been a great saint of his time. The story is when he was young he was

sent to a school. A teacher gave him a first letter, “Alif,” like the figure of “one.” (See Pearls from the

Ocean Unseen, page 23)

This give us such a lesson that the great Teacher is God. The teacher on earth teaches us a path. If

we take that path then in the end we must arrive there. Because through human God teaches. It is

God Who teaches, if we do not turn back, if we go on forward. If we have patience with the delay in



arriving at that goal which we impatiently and restlessly seek our success is sure. The Grace of God is

such that He helps even the thief, the robber, the ill-doer in his motive, to let him see what comes out

of his deed. Will He not help the one who is honestly seeking in this path? As the Prophet says that, “If

you take one step to God, God takes hundred steps to you.”



01.07.24 * Attitude

(SaGa II)

My mureeds,

I would like to say a few words on the subject of the attitude that a mureed is to have. There is a trust

between the Murshid and mureed which establishes a link between them, a link which is known by the

symbol of the sacred thread among Brahmins and among the followers of Zarathustra. They only have

a thread, but that thread in reality is that link which is established between a Murshid and a mureed. If

this link is not solid, if this link is not sincere, then there is no communication between them; then there

is a gap. The initiation is the outward sign of that link, a link which can alone maintain by the faith that

a mureed has and by the confidence which Murshid returns in answer to that faith. In the Sufi Order a

book-study is not placed on an important place, it is secondary. In the Sufi Order meditation is not

considered to be the only thing; even that is secondary. For this is not only a mystical philosophy, but

it is a religious philosophy, and in this the delicacy of this sacred thread which we call by the word

“link” is the most essential thing. A mureed may be advanced in meditation, qualified in his studies, but

that alone is not sufficient. Without the sacred thread which is this link between Murshid and mureed

the object of joining the Sufi Order is not fulfilled.

Then there is a question: is it a condition that a mureed can only prove to be a mureed, or will be

considered as a mureed, if he was a worker? And the answer is, not in the least. It is not necessary

that, in order to be a real mureed, one must be a worker for the Cause. As long as one is engaged

from the day of initiation in working out his own liberation, he is fulfilling the obligation of a mureedship.

I would consider it most unjust on my part if I asked as a return of service to a mureed his service to

the Cause. It would be give and take; I would call it a business. He alone can be a worker who in

sympathy with Murshid most sincerely wishes to take on himself some of his burden, to relieve him a

little from the heavy load he has to carry through life. Also that mureed who thinks that in working for

the Cause he does not only help Murshid but also he renders his service to God and humanity. If there

was not that reason, there seems to be no other reason to become a worker.

In what way shall a mureed show his faith to his Murshid? In the first place he has faith in Murshid’s

personal being; in the second place he has faith in Murshid’s teachings; in the third place he has faith

in Murshid’s way of working. If he lacks in either of these or any of these three aspects of faith, he

certainly does not show full capacity of being a mureed. If a mureed is a worker, then these three

forms of faith must be more developed. If absorption in the work takes away the faith in any of these

three aspects, that work will not prove of a great importance, of a great value.

A mureed with a real faith is preferred to a thousand mureeds lacking that substance. One worker

linked with the sacred thread, who has the understanding of Murshid’s point of view, his attitude



towards life, is greater than a thousand workers. Anything half done is like not done; it is better not to

do, instead of doing it half. Because half doing is a waste of time. It s better to do a little thing, but

perfectly, than a great thing without perfection. Reality is the origin of every soul, and reality it is which

every soul is seeking after, wise or foolish, … In the search of reality therefore either to be real in

every path that one goes, or not to take that path, but to avoid the unreal in everything, if one can

possibly manage it. As I have said, it is love of truth which helps the realization of truth.

Our need of workers is indeed great, but at the same time it is only the genuine workers who

understand the above said idea fully (who) will be able to answer our need. No doubt, it is His Cause

and He is responsible for it. He will provide our greatly felt need of workers. Only if it is for us to find

out in ourselves the real and the sure way of working. My mureeds, among whom there are many who

have the greatest wish to do their utmost to serve the Cause, I know, and I am most thankful for it.

And as they will know and understand more and more what is asked of a mureed, and waken to the

mureedhood, that will strengthen Murshid and the Cause greatly to go on further in spite of all the

difficulties we may have to meet.



01.07.24 Distinguishing between reality and individuality.

The principal thing in the esoteric knowledge is to distinguish between reality and individuality. What a

person knows of himself is individuality, what he is generally ignorant of, is reality. But the knowledge

of one thing for another thing is like a disinfectant. It is not the knowledge of individuality which makes

one unable to look into reality, although it keeps one’s eyes covered from the vision of reality. One

reads in the Koran that the Prophet being addressed as the one covering himself with a mantle. The

idea is that whenever the Prophet wanted to communicate with God, he used to cover himself with a

mantle, in other words, as if he meant to say that, “I am not capable of coming in Thy presence as

long as myself is before me”, that “myself must be first covered in order that I may see Thy

Presence.” When a person goes with his individuality to seek reality, it is like himself seeking himself,

and cannot find. The truth is that individuality is the cover over reality. If one wants to realize the reality

one must lift this cover from it. Therefore, the Sufi’s main idea is the pursuit of reality. It is the

knowledge of reality alone which makes him Sufi. Sufi means SAF, in other words, pure. Pure from

what? Pure from distinctions and differences. And what causes distinctions and differences? One

thing, and that is individuality. However humble a person, still he claims to be “I”. That means he is

something. He is not a big thing, he is a small thing, but he is something. He occupies a part of

existence for himself, an existence which does not belong to him. Why does it not belong to him?

Because he has no power over it. The existence which he holds fast, calling it me, may be taken away

from him. Therefore he is not the right owner of what he calls his possession, or rather himself. To

efface from one’s heart the illusion of possessing a self, which is not really oneself, but a passing

phase, a dream, a phenomenon, it is that which will open the eyes of the soul to look at reality. Once

the soul has looked at reality, it becomes reality. It rises above change and death, it widens its sphere,

it touches Heaven and earth in a moment, it spreads over land and sea. Then the self is no longer that

small self. The phenomenon of this realization is too great for words to explain. The virtue that springs

from this realization, the inspiration which rises from it, the blessing which is gained by it, the peace

which is attained by it, is beyond comprehension.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Q.: By what practice can one separate these two things?

A.: The practice is to concentrate one’s mind on an object, that in the thought of that object one may

forget oneself. That is the first and most difficult lesson to learn. And once that lesson is learned, the

further journey becomes very easy. There is an amusing story, but at the same time it is most

remarkable. This is written in the lives of the great Murshids, of the Murshids of the chain from which

we have the initiation. It is the life of a saint who has been recognized as a great blessing in the north

of India; that he was a seeking soul from childhood, and he had little education, too little for words,

except that which he learned from his mother. The mother was simple, but blessed. And when the

child asked the question, “Mother, what is the best occupation in the world?” the mother in her



simplicity said, “Son, the search after God is the first thing”. As Christ has said, “Seek ye first the

kingdom of God and all these things shall be added.” He said, “Where are we to seek Him?” She said,

“As far as I know, the seekers of God, some find Him in their religion, in their church, some in nature.

There are different ways, child, whichever suits you best.” “Will you allow me, Mother, if I take your

leave to go and search after God wherever I can find Him?” She said, “Yes, son, go wherever you like.

As you are earnest to seek God, I will let you go.”

So he went in the wilderness and after a long time he came back. His mother asked: “What did you

depend upon for your maintenance, child?” He said, “Upon the herbs and different things, fruits in the

forest.” “Did you find Him?” He said, “Not yet.” She said: “Because you depended upon something of

the earth for your life.” Next time he goes. Of course, the hunger must have something. But his hunger

became different. This physical hunger was not the important thing in his life then, there was another

hunger. He said: “I don’t know what we must be fed with, but I was fed with the thought of God. That

thought satisfied my hunger. But yet I have not found Him”. She said: “Yes, because you depended

upon the thought.” So he went again. Not even the thought he depended upon. He lived, so to speak,

in the life itself. As we read in the Bible a most esoteric phrase, that “We live, move and have our

being in God.” It was that problem that he had solved there. And then he came to his mother. “Yes,”

he said, “I have lived in Him, but yet I have not found Him.” The mother said, “You have made

preparation, my son. Now you must go and seek a Murshid.”

He went and sought a Murshid. The Murshid was deeply impressed. But the mureeds laughed and

scoffed at him, saying that he was quite abnormal, quite unnatural, quite unbalanced, they did not

know what to make of him. As for him, always living in the forest, in the wilderness, he was not well-

versed in the things of the world. So little acquaintance had he with the things of the world. The

mureeds could not understand him, nor did he make any effort for the mureeds to understand him.

The Murshid asked him one question. He said, “I was hardly in the world to like anything, except the

cow that was in the house; that was the one thing that I have always liked to serve, and have always

attended to it.” Murshid said, “Yes.” He gave him one of the rooms to sit for concentration, and he

said, “Concentrate upon the cow.” The other mureeds concentrated for five minutes or ten minutes, in

the room of concentration, and then went for walks and different things. But since he went he

disappeared and no one saw him afterwards. Murshid wondered: “Where is he?” The mureeds said,

“no one has seen him, we have been looking for him but we do not know where he is gone. Perhaps

he has taken your leave and gone and he will never appear again.” Murshid said, “No, I do not think of

him like this, I think of him quite differently. Will you go and see where he is?” They went and knocked

at the door of his room, but there was no answer, the door was closed. They came to Murshid and

said, “The door is closed, there is no answer.” Murshid said, “I will go and see.” He opens the door and

sees that the mureed was sitting in concentration. Murshid calls him by his name, his name was Farid.

“Farid, come out.” He said, “The horns are too large to come out from this door.” The object of

concentration had become himself.



That is the uncovering of individuality. That which once he had thought himself to be no longer

remained before him. The object that he has taken before him, he becomes that; that is the next step.

The Murshid said, “Those will perhaps attain to this in all their life, and he has attained to this the next

day.”

There is little further to go. For that person the goal is at hand. And it is in this way that God is sought.



08.07.24 The exercises considered as a winding.

(SaGa III, p.74)

The exercises which a mureed practices must be considered as a winding, the winding which keeps

the mechanism of the clock going. And when one cannot continue the practices at a regular time that

has been appointed to them, one fails to keep the spirit in its right pitch and regular rhythm.

Nevertheless, human being is not only a machine, that is a part of his being. Therefore a thought

which is automatically repeated in oneself by a practice, a mureed must continue by his own will, that

he does not only practice at the time of doing the exercises, but he continues the thought all along

through the day, that the same thought may be continued at night whilst he is asleep, in his

subconscious mind. It is this that brings him the real benefit of it. For instance, combining the rhythm

of breath with the steps one takes while walking and continuing mentally the thought of one’s Fikar,

repeating Wazifa with each step one takes while walking, can bring one a thousand times greater

benefit than only doing it at an appointed hour. The object is to make oneself one’s thought by

repeating it in the breath in the form of word with every action, with every movement. It is in this way

that one gets the full benefit of one’s exercises. Sufis who lived in nature interpreted the sound of the

birds in the form of their Wazifa. They took it as their Zikar. And so sitting in the nature they always

heard it. Instead of their repeating the Zikar, the birds repeated it for them. So they blessed the birds

and awakened themselves. For a Sufi no sound is without any meaning, for he interprets that sound to

himself in the realm of the meaning he wants. Besides, the sound of the nature which is continually

heard through the wind and through the running of the water, and through all things that are moving,

becomes the greatest meditation there could be if one gave attention to it, which develops wonderful

realization by which one receives the fullest benefit which comes from all the sounds around one.



08.07.24 * The process of melting

(SaGa I, 63-64)

There are certain considerations necessary while treading the path of initiation. It is a process of melting.

A personality is first put to melt by the initiator, and it is after the melting of the personality then something

is made out of it. And if it was not allowed to melt, either by oneself, or by the environments and

conditions, or by friends and associates, then the efforts would be wasted. It is the same process as the

goldsmith works with the metal. If the process is interrupted or interfered with by any influence, then the

result is not desirable.

The path of initiation is not a path of study. I have seen people who have not only read fifty volumes, but

have written fifty volumes and published them, and not yet fit for initiation. It is not an act of brain, it is a

process of the spiritual melting, going from that hard, metal aspect to the form of liquid; the ice turning into

water. Therefore the Mureed must guard himself against any disturbing influence that would interfere in

this process, knowing that it is his responsibility. The teacher would have guarded him against it if the

Mureeds were children; the Mureeds who are grown up, must feel responsible for themselves.

And there is another consideration to be taken, that the process of spiritual development is an expansion,

and this expansion is brought about by the widening of the outlook. The outlook depends upon the attitude

of the mind. If a mind is focused to thinking of small things, then this process of widening the outlook will

not be completed. For instance, if you want to look at a coin, naturally the whole sight will be fixed upon

that coin, the horizon of your vision naturally will be as large as that coin for that moment. On the other

hand, if you were looking at a wide horizon, the scope of your vision will be incomparably wider. Spiritual

progress is the lifting of the consciousness in order that the consciousness may expand to perfection.

Therefore it is a continual work of trying to look into a wider sphere. By this attitude a person, without

learning to be spiritual, will naturally become spiritual, his outlook on life will become different. Little things

that people take to heart will seem to him of little importance; things that people become confused with will

become clear to him; things that matter so much to everyone will not matter to him; many things that

frighten and horrify people will not have the same effect upon him; disappointments and failures will not

take away his hope and courage. His thought, speech and action, as his outlook becomes wide, so

everything he says or does will be different. What we call nobleness, that natural nobleness which

belongs to the soul, will blossom. For spiritual attainment is not in making life a riddle for oneself; but it is

in the solving of the problem that spirituality is realized.



15.07.24 * The mureed: concerned with the own process or with helping?

(SaGa I, 73)

There is a question which I am often asked, if it is a good thing for a Mureed to concern himself with his

own progress, or if it is a good thing for a Mureed to help others. Also I have seen some Mureeds only

concerned with their own progress and some concerned with the idea of helping others. And to my

amusement I have heard from them, “I don’t care for myself, if I evolve spiritually, if only I could be of

some help to the others.” It is an unselfish proclamation, but unpractical at the same time. He cannot help

others if he cannot help himself. And therefore in order to be able to help others the Mureed must know

that it is his first duty to help himself also. And the attitude that: I am only concerned with myself, I do not

care for the others, is also not a right attitude. Neither nature nor art can give you sufficient joy if there was

no-one to share with you your joy. To help others spiritually only means to exchange our joy, to share the

beauty of spiritual ideas with another. There is nothing more interesting in life than this, if one only has the

right notion of it. If one sees it, with pride and conceit, then not only the spiritual work but even a most

material work proves to be spiritless. To help oneself spiritually and to help others must be the right idea.

But then, to think, Yes, I will help others when I become worthy, - if he waits to become worthy he may just

as well wait for the whole life. For no-one sensible enough will call himself worthy. The day when he will

feel that he is worthy, he will prove himself to be the most unworthy. There is an idea that it is wrong to

give one’s spiritual ideas to another. Yes, if you urge upon another, it is wrong. But you cannot help

pointing out beauty which you enjoy yourself; if you are really earnest and if you love your fellowman, it is

natural for you. There is no pride in inviting other travelers to join with you while eating or drinking; it is

only a pleasure, it only gives you a fuller satisfaction of the food and drink. Waiting for perfection is

presumption. Perfection is attained as one goes along; and one must take with one those who will come,

to the same ideal that one is traveling to. Yes, one must not urge one’s belief upon others, one must not

be displeased with one’s fellowmen if they do not believe as we do. We must leave them alone if they are

content with their belief. For it is not the belief, it is the result which is important. The result is happiness,

peace, wisdom. If that is attained without one’s own belief one has no right to urge one’s belief upon a

person who is quite happy in his own belief. We do not need to trouble with those who are contented with

their own ideas, for we have many others who are not contented with their lives, we must first work with

them. If not, we could be losing our time in giving it to souls who are not yet wakened to our ideas, who

are not yet ready for them, who are not inclined to accept them.

I must repeat to my Mureeds that it is not necessary that in order to become a Mureed you must become

a worker for the Cause, this is not required of you; that the object of the Sufi Movement is fulfilled if it has

answered your life’s purpose. Whatever be your life’s vocation, if the Message has been helpful to you in

your life, has brought to you some blessing the object of the Message is fulfilled. It is nice when you feel,

out of your admiration for the ideal, out of your sympathy with Murshid, out of your devotion to the Cause

that you must serve the Cause. Then alone your service is accepted. Although the need of workers is

ever so great. When we think of the great object we have before us, no Mureed with earnest feeling of



serving and true devotion for the Cause, with sympathy with his Murshid will shrink, once he has realized

the need, from offering his services at the present moment. Although we do not bind, we shall never bind

Mureeds, making them obliged to do the work for the Cause. It must come from their own heart as a call

from within, then alone the work that we do will be of value. I have not the slightest doubt that this our

need will be granted to us. I am waiting. It is only a matter of time, He is responsible Whose work it is, we

have only to answer the call.



15.07.24 Receipt in higher initiations.

(SaGa III, p.30)

What is it that makes a mureed be received further in the higher initiations? Is it his knowledge of

Sufism, is it his gift of speech, is it his qualification in writing, is it his capability of teaching? Yes, all

these things; but the most essential thing besides these above said things is his practical application

of it in his life.

A question arises: In what way? His attitude to his Murshid, to his Initiator, his attitude to his teachings,

his attitude to his working, his way with his fellow mureeds, his fellow workers, also with strangers.

The Sufi way of the path of initiation is different, for the reason that it is acquired by reflection. The

mureed who reflects Murshid more clearly shows according to that reflection his advancement in work.

The results which have been known to us in the history of the Sufis in the past have been most

wonderful. The way how Rumi has spoken in his words the Message that Shams Tabriz brought

shows the example of what a reflection can do. Yes, in Buddhist school, also in the Vedanta school,

where there is a great deal of study attached to their cult, reflection is considered to be most

important. A Buddhist is not only a worshipper of Buddha, but he is someone who attains to Buddha-

hood. He wishes to reflect Buddha. And so it is with mureed. The first step of the mureed is to reflect

his Murshid, which is called Fana-fi-Shaikh. The next step then is to reflect Rasul, the divine ideal in

the spirit. When he has once attained to that, which can be more easily attained if the first thing is

attained, - for once a soul learns not to be himself, then he can become any self – then there is Fana-

fi-Allah, the third stage, in which a mureed loses himself in God. In this loss there is no loss, it is a

gain. In the guise of an apparent loss perfection is gained.

It is that law that traditions made the chain; that is how the chain was developed. That is why as much

as one effaces oneself, so much further one proceeds in the spiritual journey. It is not so difficult as it

appears and yet it is difficult if one has not found the way to it. It is an attainment which is gained by

someone who is firm and steady, sympathetic and self-effacing. For the whole process of the spiritual

attainment is in losing the false ego for the highest gain.

Q. What cannot be gained by questioning; that can only be gained by trusting?

A. Without trust we cannot do anything. Even when a child is born, if he did not trust what his

parents have said, he would not learn the language.



22.07.24 * What offering does the Sufi Message bring to the modern world?

(SaGa I, p. 69)

What offering does the Sufi Message bring to the modern world?

It brings intuition to the world of science, harmony to the world of art, unity to the social world, and the

divine in man to the world of religion. The Sufi Message is not only a religious Message, although

religion is the central theme, and so the Sufi Message expressed in the religious realm will answer the

purpose to which it is destined.

The Sufi Message has its work with all different sides of life; with some it will work directly, with some

indirectly, proving at the same time that in God, and in the knowledge of God, there is the answer to

every question; that no aspect of life, material or spiritual, there is which does not need God and His

knowledge. Therefore it is not necessary for my mureeds, well-wishers of the Cause, to give too much

thought as to the ways and means of bringing the Message to a success. For, as I have always said

that truth and success are not two things, although from a worldly point of view they may seem far

apart. But what is generally known as a success is that success which passes away, which is limited.

Unlimited success belongs to truth; and truth alone is the success. With this conviction we are bound

to success; our meaning of success is truth, and nothing in the world can hinder; obstacles sooner or

later will be removed, hindrances will be broken. Therefore it is not necessary to strain our minds over

difficult plans and schemes in which way to bring about a successful result. For if we did it, then what

difference is there between our ideal and the ideal of some others whose idea of success is different?

Mureeds who will faithfully stick to the Message, collaborate harmoniously and prove sincere in the

end, promise that success to which we must reach. Man’s plan will go so far and will go no further.

God’s plan will reach everywhere; nothing can hinder. Therefore our work must be to swim with the

tides. It is not effort, worries or anxieties which will bring about the object which we have near to our

heart to fulfillment. It is our faith, it is our trust, which will be our strength in our strife, and which in the

end will be that conviction in which is the fulfillment of the purpose of life. It does not matter how far we

are at this period of infancy of the Message; for it is not the number, it is earnestness that counts. By

this it does not mean that we must close the doors of the Movement; it only means we must not

overstrain ourselves. Our power is in peace, our strength is in endurance, our virtue is in forgiveness,

and the beauty of our work is in humbleness. It is the regularity of the rhythm of work and harmony of

the working forces which secure our Movement and promise success.



22.07.24 A seeker on the path of Truth.

A seeker on the path of truth often wonders if he is really progressing. But if there is any hindrance to

the progress it is his wondering about it. To wonder “if I am progressing” is like for a little child “if I am

really growing.” Certainly he is growing. The one who seeks the spiritual path is sought after by spirit.

Ups and downs of life must not confuse one. If there is any going backward it is the thinking of going

backward that causes it. There is no spiritual progress in knowing more things than one has known.

On the contrary. The spiritual progress is to be seen in the attitude one takes towards things, in one’s

outlook on life. Spiritual progress is the ennobling of the soul within and without. If there is any sign of

a person who is progressing spiritually it is that he is softened in his nature, melted in his feelings,

gentle in his doings, more thoughtful, more considerate, more knowing, therefore more understanding.

And it is the understanding which makes one forgiving. The best way of growing spiritually is allowing

oneself to grow; not pushing oneself in the spiritual path forward. Natural progress is the best

progress. One who is convinced of arriving one day at his destination must sooner or later reach it. It

is not, also, practicing the meditative exercises, but living them in one’s everyday life, that bring one to

spiritual realization. In the end an adept has an attitude that everyone is better than me. This attitude

helps him very much, for it is a humble attitude, and this gives a manure to the ground, which

becomes fertile and bears spiritual fruit.

Q. Do you not think there is a tendency to force the growth with the Western students?

A. Yes. A person becomes over-anxious to reach the goal; that his soul is yearning every

moment, not knowing that this over-anxiousness is itself the hindrance, and there is nothing else. It is

just like in running the race. A person who is over-anxious of winning the race feels his legs heavy to

run. At other times he will not feel heavy, but at that time, when he is in the race he will feel heavy. In

Persian language there is a word for God and that word is “Khuddha”. The meaning of Khuddha is

self-revealing.

Once the emperor Aurangzeb asked the great Sufi of Qualior, Sarmad, to come and join the prayers at

the state Mosque. For he knew that this man, who is venerated and revered by so many, by his

coming millions of people will be influenced. He used to live in nature, in the mountains, alone, in

solitude. He wrote a verse in answer to this invitation, in which he says, “God is called Khuddha; He

comes by Himself. If it is His nature to come by Himself, why must I go in His pursuit? He must come if

it is the right time for Him to come.” One might ask that, “Must we have that tendency? If we had that,

then we need not do anything. If a spiritual person …..” My answer is, no, we must not have this

tendency. But we must know this. For the difference between Sarmad and us is that he was in nature,

one with God. We are in the crowd, in this worldly life, every moment of which robs us from our

spiritual goal. So for us to strike the path is the only thing that saves us, or would save us.

Nevertheless, striking the spiritual path is right, but being over-anxious of progress would not prove

advisable in the end.



Really speaking the spiritual progress is easier than anything else. Because it is more natural than

anything else. All other things we do are artificial, even the action of eating, it is artificial. We seek food

which nature has made for us. We change it; and by changing it we change our body. Our natural

strength which is produced to digest raw things has been lost for ages. And so living in artificial things

which are most natural to us we have forgotten. Are the birds and animals not spiritual? Certainly they

are. They get that benefit because they live in nature, they are natural. We need striking that path

because our life is not so natural as it ought to be. Besides, spiritual realization and learning are two

things. I have told you that once after six months my Murshid spoke to me about the inner things,

metaphysics. For six months after my initiation he never spoke to me on that subject; always about

different things, ordinary things. And as my mind was metaphysical the day when he spoke about it I

jumped at it. The first thing was I began to look in my pocket if there was a note book to write it down.

And no sooner I took out my note book and pencil my Murshid finished. I was expected to keep my

heart as an open note book, that what fell upon it should be engraved in it forever. And that is true.

And so it happened. Do you think that now so many years have past I have forgotten what I was

taught? Not one word. It has been thrown as a kind of seed in the ground, which has taken its root,

and which has grown in it. Never forgotten, every word.

But there is still more shocking story, of another Murshid. And it is not very long before, it is only thirty

years ago that this happened. There was a mureed of a Murshid who lived in Hyderabad, a most

brilliant youth, with sparkling intelligence, a mind that would instantly grasp any idea that was placed

before him. And really it was most interesting for Murshid to talk with him. One day Murshid was

perhaps experiencing his ecstasy, inner joy, a moment when he was in his exaltation. This mureed as

usual asked him a question. Murshid said, “Silence!” He obeyed. And would you believe, never again

he spoke a word to anyone. Came home, the people expected him at home to speak; he never spoke.

He came to Murshid, he never spoke. Murshid never asked him to speak. And from this instance

dated the greatness of that soul. That the moment he closed his lips he was lifted up from earth to

Heaven so to speak. The power that developed in him brought the whole Hyderabad at his feet. The

people who had not known the Murshid, knew through him. People from miles at a distance began to

be healed. His presence inspired the minds, healed bodies, illuminated souls, without one word he

would speak. He was then given a name, Shaikh Khamush, which means the silent saint. And the life

of this saint was wonderful. Numberless souls were benefited by him, and it would not take one

moment for him to inspire a person. Just his glance would inspire. Of course, I do not say that this is

the principle to follow. We are in a different world, at a different time. But we can appreciate the thing

just the same. We can see the secret of it, and by it can be benefited. That from morning till evening

many unnecessary words we could avoid, and that means extra added force.



01.08.24 The fundamental principle of esoteric teaching

(SaGa III, p. 29)

The fundamental principle of esoteric teaching as suggested by Shiva Mahadeva, is of great interest

for an adept. The five senses which are occupied outwardly, perceiving outward experiences, must be

turned inward. For instance, first the organs must be turned inwardly, and then naturally,

automatically, the senses will turn inward. For instance, in closing the eyes, still the eyes are looking

outward, no, they must be turned inward. One might ask: ”Where must they be turned?” They must be

turned in three centers inward, making them one. Between the eyebrows in the center, on the bridge

of the nose, and downwards towards the tip of the nose. One might ask, “What if we turn the eyes to

the two sides, right and left, inward?” The answer is that it does not centralize the light of the eyes, it

only separates it, and by separating it, it breaks it. It is the negative and positive forces to be brought

together, not to be put asunder. Therein is the power of sight, in insight. Now one might ask, “What

about the sense of taste which is the tongue?” The tongue is turned by the adept inward towards the

palate with closed mouth. One might ask, “What about the ears?” The ears are closed and the hearing

is directed inward by closing the ears. Then one might ask, “What about the smell?” That is done by

closing the nostrils and by centering breath inward in the center of the forehead. One might ask, “What

about the sense of touch?” Centralizing the energy by closing the hands, also by sitting cross-legged.

It must be understood that man is a five-pointed star, one point is his head, two upper-points are his

hands, and the two other points are his legs. A star which is exhausting its energy, life and magnetism

by shouting out its influences outwardly, and when all the energy is centralized by all five senses, also

by the position of sitting, in meditation, then the negative and positive, the two powers which work in

man, Jelal and Jemal powers, and the seat of which is the right side and the left side of man, these

two powers unite in the center. And from that an illumination is produced which becomes the light on

the path of man, and makes everything in his path easy. A man who earnestly practices this,

preserving his magnetism and energies with faith and trust, without failing, nothing there is in the world

that he will find too difficult to accomplish. Because it is by this process that man becomes like a

luminous star.



05.08.24 * Tact

(SaGa I, p.71

Tact is a thread which connects Heaven and earth, making them one. Tact therefore, is not learnt by

worldly cleverness, earthly qualifications do not make a man really tactful. He may imitate a tactful person,

but polish is different from gentleness. What does tact come from? Tact comes from the profound depth of

the human heart. For it is a sense which is developed by human sympathy. A selfish person therefore,

cannot prove to be tactful to the end. He will perhaps begin by tactfulness, but end in losing that spirit.

Because false tactfulness will not endure. It is the real alone that can endure, object or person, both.

Tactfulness comes by our consideration for one another, and that consideration comes by our feeling for

one another, sympathy for one another. And what is consideration? Consideration is a feeling that, “all

that is displeasing, and distasteful, disagreeable to me, - I must not cause the same thing which

displeases me to another.” And tactfulness as a wisdom develops from this sense. A man may be most

learned, most capable, most influential, and yet may not be tactful. Tactfulness is the sign of the great

ones; great statesmen, kings, leaders, heroes, the most learned men, the great servers of humanity, were

tactful. They won their enemies, their worst adversaries by their tactfulness; they accomplished most

difficult things in life to accomplish, by the power of tactfulness.

One never can say that, “I have enough tactfulness”. It is never enough. A real tactful person finds more

faults with himself, having not proved to be tactful enough in his everyday life, than a tactless person. As

one becomes more tactful so one finds more fault with himself. Because there are many shortcomings.

Actions automatically manifest, words slip off from the tongue; then the tactful one thinks and sees that he

did not do right. But as Sa’adi says, “When once it is done, then you, thoughtful one, repent of it. This is

not the time to repent, you ought to have controlled yourself first.”

One becomes tactful by self-discipline, one develops tactfulness by self-control. A tactful person is

subtle, fine, poetic. He shows real learning and fine intelligence. Many say, “But how can we be tactful

and at the same time truthful?” Many look at the fineness of the tactful person and say: “Hypocritical!” But

what is the use of that truth which is thrown at a person’s head as a big stone, breaking with it his head. A

truth which has no beauty, what sort of truth is it, what kind of truth is it? The Koran says, “God is

beautiful,” therefore truth must be beautiful. If it were not beautiful then the beauty-seeking souls and

intelligent beings would not have sought after truth.

It is not always necessary that we must say things which could just as well not have been said. Very often

it is a weakness on the part of a person to drop a word which could have been avoided. It is the tactful

soul who becomes large, because he does not always express outwardly. Therefore his heart which

accommodates wisdom, it becomes larger, it becomes a reservoir of wisdom, of thoughtfulness. It is the

tactful person who becomes popular, it is the tactful person who is loved, it is the tactful person that

people listen to.



Besides, it is by tactfulness that we maintain the harmony of our lives. If not life would turn into a stormy

sea. The influences coming from all around in our everyday life are enough to disturb the peace of our

lives. And if we were tactless in addition to it, what would then become? Then there would be one

continual storm in our lives and there could never be peace. It is by tactfulness that we make a balance

against all inharmonious influences which have a jarring effect upon our spirit. If disharmony comes from

all sides and if we are creative of harmony it counterbalances it and it makes our life easy for us to bear.

What is goodness, piety or orthodoxy without wisdom, without tactfulness? What does a good person

accomplish by his goodness if he is not able to give a pleasure, a happiness by what he says or does? Of

what use is his piety or spirituality if he is not creative of happiness for those who come in contact with

him? It is therefore by tactfulness that we begin our work of healing ourselves and others.

The Sufis of all ages have been known for their beautiful personality. It does not mean that among them

have not been people with great powers, wonderful powers, and wisdom. But beyond all what is most

known of the Sufis is their human side of nature, that tactfulness which tuned them with wise and foolish,

with poor and rich, with strong and weak, with all. They met everyone on his plane, they spoke to

everyone in his own language. And what did Jesus Christ teach when he said to the fishermen, “Come

hither, I will make you fishers of men.” It does not mean that, “I will teach you ways that you will get the

best of men.” It only meant that your tactfulness, your sympathy, will spread its arms as the mother’s arms

spread for her little one, before every soul that comes. The Sufis say that, “Neither we are here to become

angels nor to live as animals do. We are here to sympathize with one another and bring them happiness

which we always seek.” Yes, there are many thorns on the path of life. But when we look at ourselves we

have the same faults, - if not more, less; the faults of others which prick as stings, as thorns. Therefore if

we spare others the thorn that comes out of us, that much help we would give to our fellowmen; and that

is not a small help. It is in tactfulness that we accomplish our sacred duty, we perform our religion. For

how do we please God? We please God by trying to please mankind.



08.08.24 Discerning the condition of others

(SaGa III, p.30)

The seer’s discerning of the condition of those before him and away from him is likened to be the

process of eating and digesting. The food, of whatever sort it may be, cereals or vegetable, sweet or

sour, it is felt in the mouth. Once it is swallowed then what is felt about it is the feeling, not outer

distinctions, but the inner essence. Therefore what is known to the mouth is the taste it has, the feeling

it has, the savor it has. But what is known to the body is the assimilation of its subtle properties. What

happens is that man’s mind is fully occupied in distinguishing by the experience of the mouth. And

therefore he remains unaware of those subtle distinctions which also he makes after he has

swallowed the food. Therefore every (good) person, every kind-hearted person, every pure-hearted

person is capable of discerning the condition of every soul. And why he cannot discern is only

because his sense is not occupied with experiencing the subtle distinctions which are experienced not

by mind, but by the soul. When the twelve apostles on the descending of the Holy Ghost learned to

understand all languages, it does not mean that they began to learn to understand English, French

and German; they understood each soul’s language, as a person with keen sense would feel that

subtle savor, the taste, and the effect of the food he eats after having swallowed it.

Now suppose there are two persons, the seer and the person whom he sees, whose condition he

perceives. His part of the work, whose condition is being perceived, is like the action of the mouth in

eating. His mind is busy in experiencing a certain condition. And the work of the seer is the condition

of the sense, that after swallowing that food how the sense distinguishes its subtle distinctions.

Therefore the seer re-analyses something which the person whom he sees has analyzed with his

mind. In the case of a seer it is becoming one with another person, experiencing what his mind has

experienced, the same thing with one’s soul. For the seer’s mind has not experienced and therefore

that part he lacks. What he gets is the subtle part of the experience which goes in the soul of the seer.

It does not mean that the seer cannot perceive mind, but by perceiving mind the seer limits his power,

because he descends. By keeping himself in the soul, although he gets subtle experience of another

person, in time the sense develops so that the seer knows the condition of a person, even more than

the person himself knows. And the language of the seer, by which he perceives the condition of

another mind, is the subtle perception in his soul which in time becomes so distinct, that for him it is

louder than a spoken word.



12.08.24 Five stages of life

(SaGa III, p.31)

As an individual outwardly passes through five different stages of life, so inwardly a soul passes

through five different stages of life. As there is infancy, childhood, youth, middle age, and advanced

years, so there is an unfoldment of the soul which shows five stages towards the ripening of the soul.

And therefore, whatever be the age outwardly, the soul can have its own stage of development; it

does not depend upon the outer age. There is one time when the life to a soul is attractive; there is

another stage when the life to the soul is tempting; there is another stage when life to the soul is

bewilderment; there is another stage when life to the soul is futile; and there is another stage when life

to the soul is most beautiful.

It is the soul’s infancy when the life to the soul is attractive. Everything, right or wrong, good or bad,

has an attraction for that soul. It is ready to jump in a pit, to fall in a ditch, to run into thorns, to fall in

mud, everything is attractive, good or bad, whatever comes along. That is the soul’s infancy. Soul at

that time is new and vigorous, appreciative and observing, just like an infant. For an infant even fire is

most beautiful, it would like to put some fire in the pocket. And that is the condition of generality. You

must never think that infant souls are seldom to be found, you must know that the largest number of

humanity is infant souls.

I will never forget one day in Calcutta I saw a Madzub standing in the midst of the street, laughing

whole-heartedly. No one would know what was there for this Madzub to laugh; there was nothing

apparent. But it took me some time to find out that what made him laugh so. And I found out that

everything made him laugh. The running of people so absorbed and involved in their little fancies and

their interest in life. The great importance that every person gave to the little things of life which

amount to very little in the end. And to see them so excited and so absorbed in their little fancies. That

was enough for the Madzub to laugh for hours together and amuse himself. Anyone turned to that

pitch sees from there how it looks. Before him it was a doll’s play.

And then comes an age when everything does not attract the soul. All that the soul has taken to heart,

it is that which attracts. “Their heart is where their treasure is.” That is the time when comes the time of

temptation. Everything that one desires, one wishes to have, one values, one gives importance to, it is

that after which one goes, and that is where is his temptation. What very often happens is a

disappointment. But still if one thing disappoints there is another temptation again to make him forget

his disappointment. There is something else. And so he goes on, one thing after another. Always

building hopes, always fixing his mind upon things, always finding that it came to nothing, and again

always ready to be given into temptations. And so he goes on through life. There is never an end to

his temptations. If not one thing, then another thing. And there is never satisfaction gained in the

things that he is tempted with; for they are only the shadows, covering reality.



And there is a third stage. That which is likened to the middle age of the soul. When life is not

necessarily attractive, not tempting; it is wonderful. It offers him an interest to look through it, to study

it, to understand it, and this very world in which he has lived several years then begins to change at

every moment. His field of study becomes vast; every experience, every condition, every action, every

person teaches him. What he has learned today he unlearns tomorrow, because there is another

experience, a new experience, perhaps contrary to what he knew yesterday. And so he goes along

the way of unfoldment; and life offers greater and greater wonder in all things one sees. He observes

and he sees and he wonders, and at times he is completely bewildered at it. Nature apart, its mystery,

its secret, its character aside, human nature that one sees from morning till evening, the ways of the

wise, and the ways of the foolish, and the ways of the right doer and the wrong doer, and how things

change and turn, and hide and manifest. It gives him so much to think about and to study and to

observe, that not one moment in his life seems to have been wasted; it is filled with a wonderful vision.

Then there is a stage further, when the soul begins to lift the curtain which hides hopes. He begins to

lift, so to speak, the curtain which hides human nature. It seems as if a veil is lifted from all things and

from all conditions, and that the colors which once seemed bright become faded, the light of gems and

jewels becomes pale. He sees behind the attachments and detachments, and love and hat thin

threads sustaining them. He sees, as Omar Khayyam says, “A hair’s difference between the right and

wrong.” Heaven and earth seem to him touching one another. Gulfs between things which are

opposite have been removed from his sight. Then he begins to feel indifferent, he begins to feel

independent. He is not hurt at the pinpricks of everyday life, nor he feels exalted by red roses. He

builds hopes, but not as every person. He has only one hope, and that hope is in reality; all other

hopes for him mean nothing. His indifference is not unfriendly, his independence is not conceited. By

indifference he does not neglect others, only his indifference is his independence. He does not mind if

neglected. By his indifference he does not avoid doing all he must do for others. Only he is

independent of the doing of the others for himself. It is that right kind of indifference and independence

which is called in the language of Hindus “Vairagya.” This spirit becomes developed.

And then follows that ideal stage of the soul’s unfoldment. When the world with all the limitations and

persons with all their faults, they are all tolerated, they are all forgiven. There is a continual expression

of sympathy and love, which continue to expand just like a little pool of water expanding and turning

into an ocean. And in this expansion the divine spirit expands; and man, with all his limitations, stands

only as a lover, hiding that divine perfection which is expanding behind it. To that soul the world is not

attracting, nor tempting, neither is it wonderful, nor futile; it is most beautiful.

“God is beautiful, and He loves Beauty.””



13.08.24 * Mentality of mureeds

(SaGa II)

What I have found in my study and experience of the mentality of mureeds is that with one mureed it is

most easy to go on further and with another it is most difficult; and I have asked myself what is the

reason of it. The one with whom it is difficult to go on very often is intelligent, learned, qualified; the

one with whom it is easy, is sometimes not so learned in the world’s sense of the word. And I have

found that always whenever there is a difficulty it is a kind of twist in his own mind, in the mind of the

pupil, that he has made a kind of knot in his mind and the thread is not smooth all through, there is a

knot. It takes a long time to unravel the knot, it takes a great effort and patience; and even then it is

not always easy to unravel it. With the one who easily understands there is also a reason for it. The

reason is that all other knowledge is acquired, but the knowledge of the divine Truth belongs to the

soul. When it is given to the soul it is not something that is new, it is something that the soul has

always known, to which the soul is wakened. I very often found with some pupils in giving them the

idea of divine knowledge, which was given, perhaps, for the first time in their lives, yet they seemed to

have had it always in their heart; it was just a kind of wakening to something which was there. That is

the real way of attaining to the spiritual knowledge; and that is the true knowledge which belongs to

the soul, which has always been there. For the soul itself is Truth, the soul itself is divine knowledge.

When the soul becomes self-conscious it understands spirituality; it does not need to learn or acquire

it, it knows it, it is its belonging. But with the children of this world the difficulty is that what is simple

they do not value; what is difficult, head-breaking and heartbreaking, something which puzzles them,

which they cannot understand, which confuses them, they think that is something, because it gives an

exercise to their mind. The simple Truth they think is too simple, but they do not know that by giving

one’s mind to the simple Truth one enters another world and the whole life changes for that person,

his attitude changes, his outlook on life changes; and so the vision of the same world which he has

once seen changes entirely, turning it into another world.



15.08.24 The continuity of meditation

(SaGa III)

In the continuity of meditation lies the secret of its benefit. The exercises which are given to mureeds,

they are to make the habit of practicing a concentration, a meditation. But to get the full benefit out of

these exercises is to continue these exercises in one’s everyday life, in one’s work. For instance,

continuing Fikar while walking, hearing Zikar in the church bells, repeating Wazifa with every action

one does. Contemplating at the time when one retires to bed, the time when one wakes up at night,

when in the morning one has been awakened. From the moment that one has recovered the sense of

the objective world, after sleep, one must begin to become conscious of one’s meditation. So that

meditation does not become a part of one’s every day life, but a continual work. In this way one

quickly profits by it and the result that is achieved in ten years’ time is achieved in one year.

One must not divide one’s everyday action and one’s meditation, for that is a very slow progress for

arriving at a fruitful result. There are Sufis who, with every mouthful that they eat, repeat their prayer,

every step that they take in the house or outside of the house, they continue their Fikar, with every

breath during the day and night their meditation is continued. The results that one can achieve by this

are beyond words. Our everyday life is full of such influences which distract us from our meditation.

From our object in the spiritual path every right and wrong thing, every good and bad thing, both, in

some way or the other distract us from our real goal. And the most important thing in our life is to keep

on the track, that nothing else might pull us asunder, may push us astray. And that we can only do by

one thing, and that is a continual meditative thought from morning till night, in everything we do. By

doing so, in a few years’ time what happens is that meditation becomes our second nature, and

without knowing, we continue to do our meditation, and that is the right process. Then meditation goes

on as a natural course, then the mechanism is started from which to expect our life’s purpose to be

accomplished.

Q.: Is that brought about gradually by connecting the meditation with the breath, then it goes on

automatically, uttered inwardly?

A.: What happens is, when breath continues to automatically repeat the meditation then all

senses begin to express the same thing and to receive the same sense from everywhere. All senses

automatically work in the same way as the breath directs them. Therefore the whole life becomes a

meditation. In the first year of course, it is difficult. The second year it becomes easy, and the third

year one accomplishes it. If a person went after it, in three years’ time a person really gets it.

Q.: Is it of importance to keep one and the same exercise for a length of time?

A.: Of course, when a prescription is given, there are two or three exercises given. At the same

time, the exercise that is to be continued must be one. Just like for a musical composer, every

composer has perhaps to think about a design to write. But a real composer, when his soul has



become a composer, he does not need to think, it is just there, there is always a composition, it is

always going on, he has just to put it down on the paper, night and day there is something going on.



18.08.24 * There are many different paths

There are many different paths: the intellectual path, by which one studies and attains to spiritual

perfection; the meditative path, in which one develops spirituality; the path of good action, which is

sure to lead to high attainment. But in spite of all these different paths, the path of devotion is great. It

is most easy and most difficult. It is easy because it is natural; it is difficult because one looks for other

paths rather than this. In the history of the great and holy beings of the world, the greatest and the

most blessed have been the devotees. There have been great scientists and philosophers, but they

have not been saints and masters – for the very reason that the power and inspiration devotion gives

is much greater than by any other way that one can obtain. Besides, devotion teaches one virtue:

sincerity, earnestness, the sense of duty, all different virtues come by devotion. A person who is

devoted to anyone in the world, to one’s father or mother or brother or sister or children or friend, has

taken his step in devotion. But the one who shows his devotion in the spiritual path to his teacher, he

has taken his second step. He has only to take one more step and he will be there. And that will be the

devotion to his ideal.

There is a story of a mureed who was known to be a great devotee of his Murshid. After the death of

his teacher a great sage came to that village where he lived, and people began to talk all around the

village that so great is the power of this sage that mere going in his presence would make a person

liberated from all his sins. This man, who was most spiritually inclined, was the first expected to visit

this sage. But everybody from the village came to greet the sage except this one. They were all

wondering why it is so; that is the man who is really deep in the idea, and the very man has not come.

So the sage went himself there and asked this young man, “What is the matter that you did not come

to see me? Everyone talked about you and I was eager to make your acquaintance. Is there any

antipathy you have for me; or what is it?” He said, “No, I would be the last person to have an antipathy

towards a spiritual soul like you. But there was one thing that kept me back.” In his simple way he said

that, “People told me that by seeing your Holiness I would be liberated from all sins. But I do not know

yet where my Murshid is going to be, in Heaven or in the other place. If by being liberated I went to

Heaven and I found that my Murshid was in the other place, then that Heaven would be hell for me. I

would rather be where my Murshid is; even if it were hell it would become Heaven for me.”

It is that attitude really which makes a mureed a mureed. There he begins on the path.

Q. How can a Murshid be in hell?

A. The perfect soul is everywhere, is it not? There is no place which is not inhabited by him. So

he could be found there also. It was the limitation on the part of the mureed who thought perhaps this

place or that place. But it is just the idea from the devotee point of view, from the point of view of

devotion. That devotion itself was his upliftment.

Q. By devotion is understood complete surrender?



A. By devotion it means a genuine link of sympathy. There is nothing that hinders it, nothing that

breaks it.

Q. In what sense is the surrender?

A. Surrender is not necessary; where there is devotion there is no sacrifice because then there is

pleasure. This is the path of freedom. When there is a willingness in service, a willingness in treading

the path, then there is no sacrifice, no surrender. A genuine sympathy with Murshid takes away that

barrier which exists between two persons. There are no two persons then. Two person is only till the

devotion is developed. When it is in fullness, then there are not two persons. It becomes the same will.

That is the true devotion. As I have said that once I was visiting the King of Hyderabad. It was the

greatest difficulty that this came about for a young man, having arrived without having established any

(achievement) in the world. And that day I felt a call from my Murshid from miles from the place. There

I was, tested between two persons: between the earthly king and the heavenly monarch. What have I

chosen? I have chosen the path of the heavenly monarch. There was no sacrifice; only there was a

call, I was there.

Q. Does one always feel the call plainly enough?

A. According to the development. The more you develop the more you feel. All else in the world

is secondary. As I say that all spiritual bliss is easily attained by the devotee. Not so easily by the

student or keen observer in life, or by a great meditative person. He may be acquainted … The

blessing is not in meditation or studying, but in devotion; because devotion is natural. It is the path of

love; by love we develop.



19.08.24 It is most essential for my mureeds

It is most essential for my mureeds to think what motive, what object they have in their working with

the teachings and meditations given in the Sufi Order. Is it that they wish to develop any powers?

Such powers are not promised. Is it that they wish to learn very much? But there is not much study

given here. Is it that they want to be good? No special principles of goodness are taught here. If they

want to be spiritual, we have not yet made solitudes and seclusions as they had on the top of

Himalayas and in the caves of the mountains, that we may give up our life in the world and retire,

neither do we wish for it. Then what is the motive that keeps us busy in the Sufi Order? What is our

object in taking this path of initiation? Our object in this is to become human. To understand the way

how to become human, how to live a human being’s life to its fullness, how to live a life of love,

harmony and beauty. If anyone calls it a religion, let him call it. If anybody says, “This is spirituality,” let

him say. If anyone says, “This is the thing we have to study, “ so much the better. If anyone says,

“That is the thing we have to achieve by meditation or seclusion or silence,” that is really the object.

Now, in order to achieve this aim of ours, what must we do? What is expected of us? Are we expected

to study much, or to meditate much, or to become very good, as they say: too good to live? Or are we

supposed to be too pious to attain to it? No. It is attained by the understanding of life. And

understanding of life is in the understanding of human nature. And it is the very thing that many in the

world neglect. What is the reason that everyone neglects it? The reason is that one is so interested in

one’s own life, absorbed in one’s own affairs, and busy in pursuing the object that outwardly a person

sets before himself, that he neglects the most essential thing to be done in life. So to speak a person

starts to build a house without building a foundation. One might ask how is it to be learned? The

answer is that every intelligent person begins it, but does not finish it. The first thing that an intelligent

person does is that he weighs and measures the other person. And so he judges another person.

Besides, what impression he gets from the other person, he unconsciously reacts, and therefore he

partakes of the fault of the one whom he weighs and measures and judges. The words of Christ we

remember, “Judge ye not, lest ye be judged,” that was the lesson to understand the human

psychology in the right way. It is to see and not see at the same time. It does not mean that one must

close one’s eyes to the faults of the others; that would be a wrong thing also. Because then one will

not become acquainted with human nature fully. If one is a student of human nature, if one is seeking

after truth, one need not close his eyes for the faults of others; but study them, and instead of reacting

one must find those faults in oneself. It is very amusing when two persons discuss about another

person’s lacks, they become such great authorities, as if each of them never knew that wrong which

the third person has done. One talks with the other as if they were faultless for the whole life. By

finding in oneself that which is lacking in the others one corrects oneself, and at the same time one

studies human nature.

The next step towards the understanding of human psychology is to find out the cause behind the

faults people have. For an average person sees only the fault, he does not see the cause which is



behind the fault. Sometimes the cause is in the mind of the person, sometimes the cause is in the

body of the person, sometimes the person is deeply rested in his spirit. As soon as one realizes these

causes, then one sees in oneself also the same cause hidden behind one’s own faults. And by

reaching the cause and by correcting oneself one is able to understand another person better. It is not

by thinking that we must be tolerant a person can be tolerant. Because knowing of the virtues is not

necessarily living a virtuous life. It is by seeing the cause of every fault in oneself that one is able to

have an insight into human nature. It is possible that another person had perhaps ninety nine degrees

of the same fault (of) which we have one grain, but generally what happens is that when we accuse

another person of a lack, perhaps there is one grain there and ninety nine in us. One must not be

surprised to see this phenomenon, because it is generally the case. It is the person who has ninety

nine degrees of the same fault who is most inclined to find one grain of the same fault in another

person, and is very happy to find it. the one who has realized even one grain of the fault of which the

other person has ninety nine grains, that person does not speak about it. He is so sorry about the one

grain that he has, that he keeps his lips closed, his eyes downcast.

And there is a step further in understanding the psychology of human nature: to see the delicate light

and shade in the picture of human life. This only comes when a person has acquired fine perception,

keen insight in human nature. It is then that the most interesting study of psychology begins. A fine

person, a person with fine perception, is really a spiritual person. Even if he was not so outwardly,

inwardly he is so. He may not show outwardly religious, spiritual, or godly, but the very fact that he has

a fine perception, he is certainly spiritual. A person who sees cause and effect of every word, thought

and action, every movement, every change of expression, that is the person who reads between lines.

That is the person whose glance is like an x-ray, it sees through a person. No doubt, it is this person

who will find more faults, lacks, wants, in human nature naturally. And it is this person who will be less

affected by it, or at least react upon it, overlook it, and rise about it. The person who sees the most

complains the least; the person who sees the least complains most. The reason is that he sees; he

does not see the lack, but he sees the cause. And when he sees the cause he sees the effect. Is there

any study, history or geography or chemistry or science, any study more interesting than this study of

human nature? The study of human nature builds a bridge between man and God.

To my mureeds therefore a word of advice that I have to give is to waken to the subtleties of human

nature. Cultivate and make your perception keen, as to get an insight into human nature. It is by this

that you will probe the depth of life’s secret, and in understanding this secret that all the mystery is

revealed, a mystery which is mysticism. It is to find this mystery that we take the path of initiation. It is

in this revelation that the purpose of our spiritual pursuit is accomplished.



20.08.24 * Attitude towards co-mureed

(SaGa II)

What attitude must a mureed take towards his co-mureed, if he does not seem to get in with his co-

mureed, if he thinks that there is something lacking in him? He, instead of correcting him, must

overlook that part and must try and appreciate all that is good in his co-mureed by showing his

sympathy. In this manner he will be able to establish a connection with his co-mureed by which there

will be a mutual help given to one another.

Psychologically it is true that two persons with different temperaments cannot get on; but at the same

time the Sufi path teaches us to try and get on with personalities which we cannot get on with. The

greater a soul, the greater power it shows in getting on with everyone. If that is the sign of the soul’s

evolution, then we must always try our best to get on with all personalities, however difficult it may be.

It is only a matter of understanding. There are things in other persons which hurt us, but they hurt us

because we take that point of view. We take them to deep to our heart. If we kept them on the surface,

then they do not need to hurt. One must make a shield by one’s will, a shield on which to take every

attack of knives or swords or pinpricks, not to allow that to touch one; and at the same time one must

take all that is desirable without shielding oneself.

In this way one can live in the world a harmonious life. It would seem very unpractical to read that

teaching in the Bible, “If one strikes you on one cheek, turn the other cheek.” But it is unpractical

because one does not know the theory of it. The theory is that if a person strikes another on his cheek,

the person who is able to turn his other cheek is the person who was able to take the first blow also on

his shield. The person whose face is struck, he surely will not turn the other side of his face. It is the

other person, he who strikes, who thinks that he is struck on his face; but it only fell on his shield. He

does not mind if another time his shield receives one more. In order to understand that lesson one

must learn this: to make around oneself a shield in other words, not to take things so seriously. Things

which we need not take seriously, one must keep them on the surface, not allowing them to enter

one’s heart.



20.08.24 The creation of the battery of power

(SaGa III)

For those who tread the path of mastery a battery of power is necessary. This battery of power, no

doubt, is created by three things: sympathy wakened, self-discipline and self-confidence. This power,

just like a plant, needs sun and water. The water, for it is purity of life, the sun, for it is wisdom. A

person, however intelligent and good-willing is incapable of possessing this power unless he observes

the above-said conditions. In order to maintain this power, one thing must be observed in everyday

life: to have control upon the desire of outgoing; because for the time, for a moment one feels

satisfaction out of the passion of outgoing. But in the end one finds that one has lost more than

gained. What use is that generous one who possesses no wealth? One must have sufficient fund of

power to use in one’s tendency of outgoing. If not you will always find that most good and kind and

sympathetic persons, by their nature of outgoing, they become physical wrecks. What is magnetism?

Magnetism is this reserved power. And the phenomenon that it shows and the wonders that are

performed by this power are too great for words to express. Nothing there is that this power cannot

conquer, sooner or later. And it is of very great importance for those who walk in the path of meditation

to preserve their magnetism.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Q.: Do you think that we should consciously preserve that magnetism?

A.: Yes, constantly, because what happens is that one is apt to lose (even) that power which protects

one from catching illnesses. If not, any cold or cough is attracted, merely by the reason that you have

given out too much, and now you have no power to prevent things from coming. A loving and giving

person always goes out to everyone and this outgoing person, sometimes he does not know how

much he has given out, and therefore he finds lacking this energy which must support him against

grosser magnetism, against disturbing influences.

Q.: Is the best way to meditate about it every day for some time?

A.: It is a good thing to think about it every day for some minutes, to reserve your forces in order to

stand the life of everyday life. But do we not see most sympathetic persons in everyday life, they are

the ones who seem to be losing the power, because owing to their sympathy and goodness they pour

themselves out and then become weak. The best way of reserving energy is to have a silence, that

picks up. Whenever one thinks that one has given away too much, just take half an hour’s silence to

relax.

Q.: Also by deep breathing?

A.: Just rhythmic breathing. Because if a person is full, he cannot take in. But if he relaxes he can take

in. Relaxing makes empty, by relaxing one is open. As soon as you relax, it is just like a vessel which

is covered on the top. There may be nothing in, but it is covered on the top. But when you take away



the cover and then put water in it, it will fill. The relaxing is really emptying oneself, making no

resistance. Relaxing is the best way of concentration. Prana is always taken from the spheres, the

essence, if we allow it to.

Q.: What thought to hold during the relaxation?

A.: I am emptied to be refilled, that magnetism is to be filled.



25.08.24 * A mureed who is on the path must have.

A mureed who is on the path must have an object before him to accomplish. If it is a spiritual object,

so much the better. If he has a material object, he must first think and find out if that object is just or

unjust, right or wrong, beautiful or ugly, profitable or disadvantageous. As Emerson says, “Know what

you ask for you will get it!” A human being retains a childish nature throughout one’s life, which he

shows in his fancies and fantasies, wrong or right, not knowing that life is a repetition, life is not an

experience which ends, but which continues, if not in the seen, in the unseen.

Once a mureed has decided that this is the object, spiritual or material, that he wants to place before

him, he must not only think of that object in his practices, he must even dream of it. And the best time

to think of it is during the night when a moment he wakes up. That time he must occupy with the

object, with his exercises. The effect of which is so great that one moment of time gives at that time of

the night is more than the meditation of the whole day.

A person who works in this manner sees the fulfillment of things which could be attained in three years

being accomplished in three days.

Q. Why is it that the night time is better?

A. Yes, you see, night is conceiving. The effect of the night time is conceiving; the effect of the

day time is expressing. A thought which is brought to materialization must be conceived first. And that

thought is conceived in the heart of the night.

Q. But if one does not wake up during the night? One cannot take the habit of waking up?

A. No, it must be spontaneous. For instance, there used to be days in my young age that I used

to wake up about two o'clock at night for my meditations, the latest three o’clock. And the sleep of

youth is terrible. At that time a person wants to sleep day and night. An alarm clock would not wake

you. And a thought used to come, “Oh,” it was a kind of distinct advice from a spark of my being,

which would say, “How cruel you are to yourself! Is there any wisdom in it? At this time when perhaps

everybody in the city is asleep, and you want to wake up. Even God will not have leisure to listen to

your prayers. He would find it very disagreeable to listen at this time of calm and peace when

everybody is sleeping.” This would be my thought. And I would say, “No, this is the devil’s voice; I will

not hear it. You are my worst enemy. Either you are myself or someone else. It is the devil who is

speaking to me. I will wake up.” And the sleep would be hanging over me; I would feel like dropping

down at every step I took, so heavy. Then I would put cold water over my face and hands and wake

up, and then would sit and be so thankful to have conquered that nature which is man’s enemy. Of

course I would not teach such an asceticism to my mureeds. Never! But I can tell you how profitable

the night vigil is. Because the best one can say (is) when one has experienced oneself.

Q. If one does not wake?



A. Just as well to sleep. Because life in the West is not as in the East. In the West it is too busy.

Better not do it.

Q. Is it advisable if one has a thought to write it if it is inspiring?

A. As soon as sleep comes then to fall asleep.



26.08.24 * Our happiness and unhappiness

Our happiness and unhappiness depends upon one thing in life, and that is how we look at life, if we

appreciate and value all we have in life or whether depreciate and underestimate all that we have. If

we think of what we have not in life, we shall find that there is so much that we have not got in life; it

will seem as if what we have got in life is not even as large as a bubble compared with the sea. And if

we try to realize what we have, then also will come a time when we shall see that what we have not is

like a little bubble in a vast sea. It is a matter of looking at it.

The general tendency is to see what we have not got in life; and rarely there is one soul so blessed

who is wakened to appreciate and to be thankful for all he has in life. When we think what we lack,

then there comes a flood of the lack, and it drowns the whole universe and we find ourselves lacking

entirely everything that it is possible to have. And if we begin to realize what we have this will be

added and will be completed by abundance, so that in the end of our realization we shall be able to

find that really speaking we have all. It is in this that there is the secret of spiritual attainment. And the

saying of Christ, “Seek you the Kingdom of God first, and all will be added,” has the same meaning in

it. that by your thankfulness, by our appreciation of life, you arrive to the fullness of life, in that bliss

you will find the Kingdom of God. And once the Kingdom of God is realized, all else will be added.

Once a dervish came before Sekundar, the great king, with a bowl of a beggar and asked Sekundar if

he can fill this bowl. Sekundar looked at him and said, “What is he asking of an emperor like me, and

he says, ‘can you fill this little bowl’”. He said immediately, “Yes”. But the bowl was a magic bowl.

Hundreds and thousands and millions were poured into it, but it would not fill. It always remained half

empty, its mouth wide open to be filled. When Sekundar began to feel poor in filling this bowl, he said,

“Dervish, tell me if you are not a magician. You have brought a bowl of magic; it has swallowed all my

treasures and it is empty still.” The dervish answered, “Sekundar, if the whole world’s treasures were

put into it, it would still remain empty. Do you know what this bowl is? This is the want of man.”

Be it love, be it wealth, be it attention, be it service, be it comfort, be it happiness, be it pleasure, be it

rank, position, power, honor or possessions in life, the more man receives the more man wants. He is

never content, he will not be content. The richer man becomes the more poor he becomes; rich with

everything, with anything. For the bowl that he has brought with him, the bowl of wanting, can never

be filled, is never filled.

Therefore the only secret of happiness is to develop how to appreciate our privileges in life. If we

cultivate that sense of appreciation, we shall be thankful, we shall be content, and we shall offer our

thanks every moment to God for His gifts are many and enormous. When we do not see them, it is

because our wants cover our eyes from seeing all with which we are blessed by Providence. No

meditation, no study, nothing can help in that direction except one thing, and that is to keep our eyes

open to appreciate every little privilege in life, to admire every little glimpse of beauty that comes



before us, to be thankful for every little love or kindness, or affection shown to us by young or old, by

rich or poor, by wise or foolish. And in this way to continually develop the faculty of appreciating life,

and to devote one’s life to thanksgiving. By doing so we arrive at a bliss which no words can explain, a

bliss which is beyond imagination. And that bliss is when we find our soul having already entered the

Kingdom of God.



27.08.24 * It must be known that exercises

It must be known that exercises which are given to mureeds, they are not only for the unfoldment of

the soul, but they are also to help one in all conditions of life. As one progresses spiritually, naturally

all things in life which are necessary to make his life easy come to him. It is wrong to say that by going

in the spiritual path one neglects his worldly duties. A real progress in the spiritual path is an

advancement in every direction of life. We read it in the Bible, “Seek ye the kingdom of God, and all

will be added.” It is not said that by seeking the kingdom of God all will be taken away from you.

Besides, the battle in life is great, and in the life of everyone there is some battle. And in order to be

strong enough to fight that battle, and to gain victory in that battle, (it) is made easy by keeping these

practices. It is not right, therefore, to think that “just now I am not well, I shall not do my exercises”, or

“just now my mind is not in a condition to do my exercises,” or “just now I am weighed by

responsibilities, pressed by work, short of time, that I shall do it when peaceful days will come.” But

you must know they will never come; they must be brought, they do not come by themselves. One

must rise to them. They will not fall at one’s feet. It is like saying that, ‘I shall save money when I shall

get more money.” But if you will always spend money, and not earn, then it is not saving. So it is with

spiritual power. It must be collected in order to be used. But one will use it always and not collect it.

Then one will always find oneself spiritually poverty stricken. One must be rich with spiritual power.

And that richness is obtained by the continuation of meditating exercises. As by eating a nourishing

food you will not feel in one day very strong, you will not in three days’ time gain a few stones more, so

by four days practice you cannot expect all the power in the world to come into you. It is a lifelong

practice which produces miraculous results.

The phenomena of these practices may not be told to you, but when you have mastered them its

phenomenon will manifest to you as a miracle at every moment of your life.

Q. If you doing one’s exercises one gets sometimes distracted, should one begin again?

A. Of course, that takes up a very long time. If it were in the East I would have advised it, but in

the West it is a different thing. My Murshid had advised me so, but I will not advise you to do it. I

cannot dare such a thing. I think if without fail one continues exercises, I think that is quite sufficient;

without letting one day pass without; that is a great thing. Because you see, continuation is life, and a

discontinuation is death. The discontinuation of a thing brings it to an end. All its power and blessing

will end. You will perhaps begin the day after, and begin anew; but this links it up. For instance, if you

must do an exercise for whole month and you stop after fifteen days, you only have the benefit of

fifteen days. Then you must begin again …. But after one day’s gap, when you begin anew, the

inspiration and power begin anew; therefore there is a great loss. One would not realize so at first, we

would not think so. It is not that every day’s exercise gives an equal amount of inspiration and power.

But every next day’s exercise brings added inspiration and power. Therefore the power on the third

day is greater than on the second day.



Q. Is the exercise also powerful when one cannot say the exercise aloud?

A. No. The power changes. Some exercises need to be said aloud. For instance Zikar. But

Wazifa which means only whispering, that is different. But repeating exercises silently or softly is

better than not to do it.

Q. Is the effect the same when our mind wanders, or does it reduce the benefit?

A. Yes, but at the same time there is a certain amount of benefit just the same.



01.09.24 * The main principle in the life of a Sufi

The main principle in the life of a Sufi is to seek every moment in his life the pleasure of another. But

one may ask that, “How can it be applied to our practical life?” and the answer is that we need not

apply this principle to the practical life; if we had this principle in mind, that is quite enough. If we do

not forget this principle in all we do, that is quite sufficient. For no doubt in the things of the world this

principle cannot be applied at all times. Nevertheless it is in the seeking of the pleasure of man that

one seeks the pleasure of God.

There is a duty one has towards one’s family. One has a duty towards one’s town, duty to one’s

nation, to one’s race. One has a duty to the whole humanity and one has a duty towards God.

In seeking the pleasure of everyone we are performing that best and highest and the most important

duty that we have towards God There are many principles that one may think of often in one’s life; but

it is this principle which one must think of every moment of his life. If there s any aim it is in this, and if

there is any virtue it is in this. In this consideration that on our part we hurt no one, we harm no one.

As Buddha says, “Ahimsa paramo dharmaha,” which means, “Harmlessness is the fundamental

principle of every religion.”

Q. Christ said, “I have come to bring the sword.” What did he mean?

A. That is the path of the duty, not of moral. Because a Prophet has not only to teach moral, but

also duty. It is the path of duty that the sword is held, not in the path of moral. But it is Christ again

who said, “If anyone strikes you on one cheek, turn the other.” To this extent he has taught

resignation. But if it came to duty, then even taking the sword is a virtue.

Q. Is there not a danger in seeking ,,,, You just encourage …

A. What happens is this: that by practicing this principle we develop our love nature so much that

in the beginning it may not have that command, but in the end it has. Even the most egoistic person;

because it is a melting process.

Q. In the life of Krishna, he led the army. The lives of the great souls in the world ……

A. When the time came to take the sword they could not hesitate; although it is cruel, but behind

that cruelty maybe ….. If a sword could be cancelled, then the surgery would be cancelled, which is for

the benefit of the whole humanity.



02.09.24 * Spirituality is the natural nobleness

Spirituality is the natural nobleness, and the unfolding of the innate nobleness is spirituality, a divine

heritage which is hidden in every soul; and by the manifestation of this divine heritage a soul shows

divine origin.

All the striving in the spiritual path is to bring out this nobleness. But one need not strive to bring it out;

it comes by itself if one were conscious of that divine heritage. It is that consciousness which brings

out that nobleness of spirit.

In the terms of the Sufis this nobleness is called “Akhla Allah,” which means “the manner of God,” a

manner which is unlike any other manner known to the world. It is the manner of the mother to her

child, it is the manner of father towards his son, it is the manner of man towards his friend, it is the

manner of the maiden to her beloved, it is the manner of the lord towards his servant, it is the manner

of the child towards his mother, it is the manner of a son towards his father, it is the manner of a slave

towards his king; and yet it is above and beyond all manners known to mankind. It is humility, it is

modesty, it is pride, it is honor, it is kindness, it is graciousness, it is indifference, it is independence; a

manner inconceivable to human mentality, a manner which cannot be learnt or taught, a manner

which springs itself and comes forth as a divine blossom.

It is in this manner that there is the fulfillment of man’s life’s purpose. This manner is the highest

religion, the true spirituality, real aristocracy, and perfect democracy. All disputes and disagreements,

all misunderstandings fall away the moment the human spirit has become noble. For it is the sign of

the noble spirit that comprehends all things, that assimilates all things, and therefore it tolerates all

things, it forgives al things. What use is a religion, a philosophy, or mysticism, or whatever you call it, if

it does not produce in you that spirit, that inclination which is divine? And if that inclination, that spirit,

shows in anything, it shows manifesting in divine manner.

Neither in the graciousness of a king nor in the subservience of a slave you will find that dignity and

that humility which divine manner gives. Is not man the seed of God? Is it not then his life’s purpose to

bring forth divine blossom? It is not by working wonders that man shows his divine origin, nor is it that

in possessing extraordinary powers he shows divine origin. If divine origin is seen in anything, it is in

the democracy of human ego. In the world we see there is aristocracy and there is democracy. But in

spiritual unfoldment these two become one, culminating into the real perfection. A flower proves to be

genuine by its radiance, a fruit proves to be genuine by its sweetness, a soul proves to be genuine by

its manner. This is not a thing therefore to disregard; this is something to take first notice of. All studies

and practices, silences and meditations aside, this is the main things to express God in all one does,

especially in the manner that one has towards another.



03.09.24 * Not showing admiration for Murshid

Q. Will you explain more that we should not show the admiration for you?

A. As I have said that the more one understands human nature the more one is particular about

it. Your Murshid is a human being; but even the name of God sometimes becomes intolerable. Have

you ever seen some people, when it comes to mention God, they say “gods” in order to avoid

jealousy, in order to make God tolerable. Many cases you will find, especially in France. What is it? It

is a spirit which is quite contrary to which existed in the ancient times; a spirit which is against

personality. Now for instance, come to this idea: President Wilson, the way he has been hated, the

way he has been thrown down, the way that people attacked him. Did he really deserve it? If many

thoughtful people came together and thought: did he really deserve it? it would be difficult to say. If it

was the ancient time it would not have happened such a thing. But the times are such that a person

with a highest idea, when you point that person out, there will be five persons interested in what that

person has to give, and ninety five will not be concerned with what he has to give, but with, “why this

person is appointed to us?” It does not mean that it is the spirit of the present day; it has been the

spirit of the past also. It is this spirit which has been in many people’s lives as a victim, in spite of all

the work they have done for humanity …. they have been beheaded, stoned, …. their lives always in

danger. Now this time also. Human nature is the same. It is therefore what we are concerned with is

with the work. If we are given the time and facility to do our service, is it not enough? It is quite

enough. If the work is fulfilled that is what is necessary. And that can be done much better in an

unassuming silent service. That is the idea.

Q. Is your meaning that when we meet with people that we shall try to convince them to become

your mureed?

A. that is quite contrary to what I am saying. When you meet people to convince them of the

ideal. We all serve the ideal in which we are together. Without bringing me forward. Because it is one

ideal which we all serve. It is therefore the ideal. What people do is this. What comes before them is

not the ideal, but the person. And therefore, before they think what ideal is, the first impulse is against

the person. That is the idea. It is dangerous. Only there is no danger that we are afraid of. We are in

this life, when we have taken this service of God; there is nothing that we shall not risk our life to. Only

the thing is that when we can, avoid it. When the person is interested in the idea, let that person study

it and meditate. That his own heart will guide him. Because the truth is in the depth of every heart. And

that truth itself will guide him to the right point. Therefore it is better to put him on the road, instead of

causing his antagony.



05.09.24 The nature of reflection

(SaGa III)

The nature of reflection must not only be studied by the nature of the eyes or of the mirror, but also by

the nature of a photographic plate. In the eyes or in the mirror there is a reflection, but that reflection

only depends upon the object being before it. No sooner is the object removed, the reflection is gone.

But the reflection on a photographic plate is like the reflection upon the mind. A reflection which is not

only a reflection, but becomes an impression which then can be developed by a certain process in

mind as well as in photographic work.

There is a reflection of one’s own body fallen upon one’s own mind. But this reflection fallen upon

mind is not only a reflection, but an impression. This impression forms into an object, not necessarily

into a mental object nor into a physical object. It forms into an object which is a substance and yet not

a substance. In Sufi terms this object which is formed and born out of reflection, this object which is

completely like one’s own physical body, is called Hampta, in other words, etheric double. Everyone

sees this in one’s dream; the thing one sees in one’s dream is this object. But a developed soul does

not need to dream in order to see it. He can see it in a wakeful state if he wants to.

In short, reflection may not be considered as a momentary shadow fallen in the mirror of mind, and

then with the moving of the object it is removed, but reflection is a phenomenon in the mental world,

for it is creative and it has life and action. The knowledge of this extends the horizon of man’s activity.



09.09.24 The way of the Salik and the way of the Rind

(SaGa III, p.18)

There are two ways by which seekers attain to spiritual perfection, in Sufi terms the way of the Salik

and the way of the Rind. These two ways are contrary to one another, although both ways lead to the

desired goal. The way of the Rind is that nothing matters, that “I don’t care”, that, “I am nothing”, that

“All else is nothing”. “Nothing I need, nothing I want, nothing I desire, nothing I long for, nothing is

important, nothing I adore, God alone exists, none exists save He”.

And there is the way of the Salik. The watchword of the Salik is shame. And what does this shame

mean? This shame means honor, dignity, pride, delicacy, all these combined together. There is one

Eastern word that expresses it, and that is called Laj. A sense that “No one may notice my poverty”,

that “No one may observe my lacks”, that “Before no one I may have to hang my head down”, that

“under no condition I may feel ashamed”. And out of this idea of shame rises the fountain of virtues. It

is that person who will cover the faults of another. It is that person who will screen the lacks of

another, who out of the sense of honor will have respect for another. It is that person who out of the

sense of dignity will appreciate the sense of dignity of another. He may starve, he may suffer, he may

be ruined, he may give his life, but not his pride, not his honor. You may cut his head off, but you

cannot touch his dignity. That is the way of the noble who will prove in all conditions of life (to be)

kings.

A person who has not the touch of this sense of honor, he will not appreciate it. He may see

something foolish in them, he may see something unpractical in their nature, he may see in them a

false pride, a foolish vanity, an empty honor that teaches man self-respect. Every sacrifice, every

renunciation man makes, even as much as giving one’s own life, one makes for the sense of honor. It

is not a thing to discard, it is something to value, for then this opens a way for man to enter the

kingdom of God.

Fineness is in living a life of delicacy, delicate perception, delicate ideal, delicate speech and delicate

action. There is harmony in it, there is beauty in it, there is love in it. In a person where these three

things are absent, or one of these things is absent, that delicacy lacks. When love is not enough

without beauty, beauty is not sufficient without harmony. It is these three things that balance a

person’s life. If one of these things is lacking in one’s nature, that personality is not complete.

In addition to this, what I wish to say to my mureeds is that during these days of the Summerschool

what has been given has been so simple; nothing which you did not know, for it was not supposed to

be anything different to what you already know. As Solomon has said, “There is nothing new under the

sun.” It was only a reminder to waken that knowledge which already is in your hearts, and you have

patiently heard it. It will give me great pleasure if you will forget what did not agree with you, and



remember all that agreed with you. And then you will pass it on to those you will meet, and you will

share with them your blessings. You must remember that with you, wherever you will go, not only my

words, but my blessings will be. And your stay here has established a link which with the days and

years will grow, and which will bring us closer every day, culminating into a perfect link the power of

which will enable us to serve God and man better.



10.09.24 * Attitude against people aggressive to the Message

Q. When we deal with persons who are aggressive towards the Message and you in their

speaking, what attitude have we to take against them?

A. A perfectly tolerant attitude. Not defensive attitude. The reason is this that the person who

does not understand the real, you do not need to defend for the real, because the real itself is its

defense. Only he is to be pitied that he cannot understand. For instance, there is a man who has real

gold, and he wants to sell it at the market. And there is a man with false gold …………. And when a

false gold is bought and a person makes an objection, then the man is naturally angry, because he

wants to sell his false gold. But the person who has the real gold, if (any)one says, “No, this is not real

gold, it is false,” by that you have not lost, because the real you have already …. for the tolerant

attitude is much better in all these cases than a kind of defensive attitude. Besides this, it is never in

the favor of our Message to antagonize a person. For instance, a person criticizes or looks at it with a

sneering way. And if you feel his attitude and if you say something which is displeasing to him you

lose that person forever. But if you are tolerant, perhaps this very same man, who is a raw fruit just

now, in two years may be ripened, and the very same man may come to us. To keep the raw fruit to

ripen, instead of allowing it to be decayed.

I will give you an example. There was a man in Switzerland; one of my mureeds spoke to him about

the Message, and he was only too critical. But this mureed of ours did not antagonize him, he just let

him stay there. And what happened? This man, for curiosity’s sake, wanted to look at one or two

books. And after having read these books he said, ‘Perhaps I shall try to hear the Murshid when he

comes in Switzerland.” So this man came to hear me speak at a lecture. And that gave him a desire to

meet me. So next time he came and met me. After one meeting he himself offered to become a

mureed. And next day he brought his whole family to become mureeds! A mureed, who is our very

great friend and support today, and one of our very sympathetic workers. So that is the idea. If he

would have been antagonized, before even looking at the book he would have thrown it away. He was

given a chance to look at the book by not being antagonized. Human nature is delicate, it must be

delicately reached. The whole success of the Message is in the delicacy of the workers.

Q. Can you give us some example how to deal when you come to deal with a very materialistic

person, how to awaken in him some idea of spirituality?

A. A materialistic person is a very difficult subject always to approach, because he gives us no

ground to stand upon. A godly person gives us at least God as the ground to stand upon. A materialist

does not give us that ground, therefore we must find a ground. And that ground is his own self. We

must get that ground from him. That is to say, he is not concerned with soul, hereafter or God. But he

is concerned with himself. As soon as you stand on that ground, his own life, its happiness, its

success, its balance, its real benefit, then you have a ground to stand upon.



Table of Contents

Table of Contents ________________________________________________________________ 58

01.07.25 Practices to help a person in speaking _____________________________________ 60

08.07.25 Repetitions of Wazifa ___________________________________________________ 63

10.07.25 External Zikars ________________________________________________________ 72

15.07.25 The different forms and figures ___________________________________________ 77

17.07.25 On speaking __________________________________________________________ 79

22.07.25 On speaking __________________________________________________________ 83

22.07.25 Speaking _____________________________________________________________ 85

4.07.25 The idea of conducting our study groups ____________________________________ 89

29.07.25 Phrases ______________________________________________________________ 94

05.08.25 Psychological points to remember in speaking about Message ___________________ 96

05.08.25 Q & A: class __________________________________________________________ 97

07.08.25 No rules for all _______________________________________________________ 101

12.08.25 About psychology of writing letters _______________________________________ 107

14.08.25 About the Collective Interviews __________________________________________ 111

19.08.25 Rhythm _____________________________________________________________ 113

21.08.25 Concentration ________________________________________________________ 116

26.08.25 The path of esotericism ________________________________________________ 118

Summerschool 1925 Zikar ______________________________________________________ 121

Summerschool 1925 External Zikar ______________________________________________ 123

02.09.25 Practices ____________________________________________________________ 126

09.09.25 Memory ____________________________________________________________ 130



29.10.25 Suggestion, power of the sacred scriptures __________________________________ 134

03.11.25 Stones _______________________________________________________________ 137

10.11.25 Ecstasy – square - triangle ______________________________________________ 140

12.11.25 The Message _________________________________________________________ 142

12.11.25 Collective Interview ____________________________________________________ 144

17.11.25 Sufi training: imitation of the teacher ______________________________________ 148

19.09.25 Questions and Answers _________________________________________________ 154

??.11.25 Problems that make difficulties ___________________________________________ 159



01.07.25 Practices to help a person in speaking

Wednesday (same as 22.07.25)

There are certain practices which help a person in speaking. One practice is to

breathe through the nostrils deep, and to bring the breath from the diaphragm, and then to

exhale that breath by blowing it out by the mouth. And such hundred breaths must be taken

either lying in bed or sitting on the floor cross legged or standing. Besides that, closing the

eyes and looking at the five pointed star, holding the thought of the star still, and not allowing

the mind to waver. These practices will help you to keep on your subject, on the subject that

you are speaking. Every day for five minutes.

Besides this there is a concentration which must be done just before you are

speaking. And that concentration is that with all those who are in this room I unite in God,

with my whole heart. There must not be a barrier, that this person who is sitting in that corner

is my enemy, or that person in that corner is my worst opposer. That thought must not be

there. The thought must be that all those who are sitting here are my friends, I

wholeheartedly unite with them all in God. That produces a wonderful effect. When you are

one with all there is no barrier, that is a great secret.

Q. Sometimes some people are very difficult to talk to.

A. That feeling is not right. That feeling must be put out of one’s mind. In singing also

you will find the same. It is to be thankful that you could much better than you do. It would

spoil your whole singing. When there is a thought of antagonism, the whole thing is spoiled.

You may repeat in your mind that, “You are all my friends, I sympathize with you all, and I

unite with you all in God.”

Q. Is it true if one begins a speech, does one really see the subject? I thought he looked

at the audience, but did not see them.

A. It depends, in my case, if there were a thousand persons in my audience, each

person I see separately. Not as his appearance outside, but as he is inside, his attitude

towards my lecture and towards me. Each person individually.

Q. ?

A. Breathe from the diaphragm, with closed eyes see the five pointed star, and repeat

Wazifa at the same time, “Ya Wahabo,” inhale and exhale, repeat again. Divine flow of

inspiration, means the sacred name of God. The God Who represents the flow of inspiration,

or the flow of life. In many ways a very useful word; in business, in profession, in reading, in



writing. One must picture sometimes with Ya Wahabo the flowing of life, or running water,

because that symbolizes progress, life.

Q. Is there any special time of day which is best for this practice?

A. First thing in the morning.

And now after a lecture, if anyone asks a question, there are some considerations in giving

the answer. There are answers which you cannot give, or which you must not give. In that

case it is better to say that this is a question which can be answered privately, afterwards.

Then there are personal questions, a person may ask. And the speaker must be wise

enough not to commit. If not, he is gone. For instance, “What do you believe? What is your

opinion about it? What do you think about it?” the speaker is not there to say his personal

opinion, or what he personally believes. Or perhaps his belief is so great and so high, it

cannot be put in words. Therefore always avoid it. Say, “that is a personal question.” One

says, “What would you do in this case?” Always say that, “Well, I would not advise you to do

the same as I would do in that case.”’ Because every person must do what they would do,

not what another person would do in that case. Because it is not only the case, it is the

person also to be counted.

Then there are questions in which people want you to commit yourself, and if you commit yourself then you are the loser, if you do not commit yourself then you have gained. It is just like a game. When there is a question and answer between the audience. Either he can be caught, or he can keep above it. To keep above it is never to commit yourself. As soon as once he commits himself a hundred questions will come to bring him down. So you see, he must feel at the time, “I must not commit myself.” But now you may ask, what committing means? Committing means saying something which gives you in the hand of the other in such a way that he can contradict you, and you have no support from your own self remaining there to hold your argument high. Very often you may be right, and yet you may commit. That is the dreadful part of it. It is not by saying something wrong that you commit, but by saying something right. But one is responsible for what one has said, that is what one has to be careful of. Or, committing means that from your own principle you say what is right, but from the principle of the others you could be defeated. For instance, a speaker told a story: he said that where the saint was sitting under the tree, and the thief came and said, “I want a place to hide, the police are after me,” and the saint said, “Climb in the tree and sit on the branch.” The police came and asked the saint, “Have you seen that thief?” He said, “No.” And now the speaker has said it; the speaker appreciated the part of the saint and felt that he is alright. The audience asks, “Are you of the same opinion as the saint; was the saint not against the state?” or, “Did the saint not encourage him to steal… The saint told a lie!” The saint could be accused of those things. If the speaker was strong-headed he would say, “But it was a saint.” Then the speaker has done wrong; because he thought what the saint did was right, but the others do not think so. He stands guilty before the others; that is the delicate point. The higher you evolve the less you are caught by principle of the ordinary mob. But at the same time if you commit you are attacked by all, condemned by all.

Q. But how could the saint encourage the thief to tell a lie?



A. The eyes of the saint did not see the thief; the eyes have only seen God and nothing

else. If he was a thief then everybody was a thief for the saint in one form or the other. Only

in one form it is not seen as a thief, in another form it is; he is above it. Therefore he can see

… If others follow his point of view they will be wrong; if they encourage it, they will be wrong.

For a speaker it is a difficult thing; thus the speaker’s position is difficult. He is before the

public which can condemn him and they never can understand his point of view. So the

speaker must know the game, it is a game. You must take one word and slip out; put one

word as a screen and get out. The person is looking at the screen, and he is out. It is just like

a juggler who says, “Look here, look here,” and is gone there.



08.07.25 Repetitions of Wazifa

Wednesday

About the repetitions of Wazifas.

Wazifa is a prescribed word. A word which has been given by the prophets or mystics in

order to produce a certain effect. A word which has been used by them for a long time, which

in the end produced results. There are ninety-nine principle words as names of .. But

besides that there are many more words and phrases used or prescribed by great mystics,

and their use have proved to be sure in its result. I will tell you a story, an experience of

myself. As young men have their fancies, and their little cross moments, so I had a cross

moment also. I went to the prime minister’s house in the country. He being a busy man I

could not get the time of seeing him, and my pride was very much hurt. I said, I will never go

to his house unless I was called. Childish cross. But I thought that I had a need of seeing the

person just the same. So I thought well, I am going to do the Wazifa. A Wazifa which brings

about a result in about forty days I took up, and I said, now let me see. And forty days were

too long. Three evenings only I had to do the Wazifa and the fourth day there was a

message from the prime minister that he begged he wanted to see me. I said I am very glad.

Of course these things would be too dangerous in the hands of those who use them.

Nevertheless, Wazifa has a very great power. All things become easy, and all things are

accomplished sooner or later, the one who had faith in Wazifa and can do it with patience; for

the one who lacks faith it is a different thing, for the one who has faith it is (the) most

wonderful thing there is.

But to do Wazifa regularly at the same time as the other day is advisable. And to sit in the

same place as you had before it is still more advisable. And to sit in the same position as you

always sit, it is still more advisable. And to face a certain side as you have done before is still

more advisable. You need not do Wazifa with closed eyes. There are no distinctions about

sitting or standing, or walking. You can do Wazifa in any way you like. One can mechanically

whisper, and that has less power, but if one hears the word one says, and allows one’s heart

to be impressed by it, he will have results soon. I know of a disagreeable man, who was a

great master of Wazifa, but he was so disagreeable, that no one would dare go near him. He

would always insult and always in a bad mood. And always would receive a person rudely.

And therefore people avoided going to him. But anyone who went, taking all his rudeness

calmly, and not minding his crude ways, he would say: In six weeks time, or in ten days time

all you wish will be granted. And it always would have been so.



But another experience of mine I will tell you. There are times when man proposes, and God

disposes. There is something that you want to be accomplished, and God does not wish it to

be. And that is the time of great conflict. But the power of Wazifa even there does not allow

to be feeble. In such cases either you feel tired, or annoyed, or you lose faith in the thing, or

you have no time, or something prevents you from doing Wazifa. But Wazifa retains its credit

just the same. That if you were not prevented, it could have produced results. Such is a

phenomena of it. When mureeds do not know the value of it they take it as a word to mutter

in the mouth for a certain time. And then they think, well I have done it, that is all, I do not

know what it has brought to me. But I said before you my experience of it my whole life. And I

have seen a person who had mastered a certain Wazifa, it was a phrase. For forty years of

his life, and that Wazifa had become for him a fertile land, that always produces for him rains,

all that he needed to produce through that Wazifa was made for him every year more amply.

And in forty years time his Wazifa became a phenomena, a miracle. I was closely in contact

with this person, and I have seen how this Wazifa worked on him, and on the people that he

saw in the world. It was a magic. It is in the understanding of the thing, and in the doing of

the thing that one finds right results.

Q. For each person a special Wazifa?

A. A Murshid prescribes for each person. But for each requirement there is a certain

Wazifa. What Murshid sees is the requirement for that person, and to what he sees that that

person requires he gives a Wazifa.

Q. That man who wishes to have something, and God does not wish to give it, what is

then happening? Is God forced to give what he wishes by the Wazifa?

A. No, the person cannot continue the Wazifa. And if he can continue it, the fire has no

heat. The Wazifa does not show power enough if it is against the will of God. The Wazifa

does not show its power.

Q. It gives only no strength?

A. Of course, it helps a person. One must not believe that anything is against God when

one wishes it to be. That very idea is a wrong idea in itself. Because you do not want if it was

not the will of God. The very fact that you want it, unless that your mind was so quite out of

tune, that it is against the will of God.

Q. Is the power of the Wazifa not spoiled if you do not keep silent about it?

A. Of course, the whole power is in keeping silent. That is the trouble of many people,

they want to speak about a thing so much, that a thing is spoiled before it is accomplished.



The absence of secrecy is the greatest curse there is. So few people really understand the

value of keeping a secret.

Q. Why may it never end on a zero, with ten or twenty?

A. Zero results into nothingness, although it adds to something, it adds to one and

makes it ten, it adds to ten and makes it hundred. But as an addition it gives the credit to the

figure, but in itself it is nothing. Therefore zero means nothing. Its life is with the figure, but

without the figure it is nothing. Therefore you must not end in nothing, you must end in

something.

Q. Has that an occult influence?

A. Yes, when you end in zero it means that with all the thought you have created it has

all gone to nothing. Therefore always have one more, except a Wazifa for health, when you

wish a cure, then let the illness end in zero. Or when you wish a person to be killed, which

you will never do.

Q. Is sitting cross legged better than other positions?

A. It does not matter, but it is preferable if you sit in one and the same position every

time for a Wazifa.

Q. Does it make a great difference if the person does not know exactly the meaning of

the Wazifa?

A. He must.

Q. Often the thought is very difficult to bring in a form. You give me an explanation of a

Wazifa, it was very difficult for me to make the meaning of it. It was not for a special thing,

but to give something, but without the prescription. “Success in every way.” Then very

difficult to make a clear conception of it.

A. For that Murshid gives something to fix one’s mind. For instance if I give a Wazifa that

you must imagine that there is running water, a stream of water is running before you, or a

door is opening before you, or a shower is coming from Heaven, or you are standing in the

bright sun, or any other. There is a story of Jona, who was in the mouth of the fish, that he

was a great master of Wazifa, and while in the fish he continued a Wazifa, and that by the

power of that Wazifa he came out of it. And that Wazifa has been continued by mystics even

till now. The mystics know it, and it has the same power. And when that Wazifa is given to

anybody, he must imagine himself to be in the fish,



Q. I thought it was symbolical.

A. Suppose it was symbolical, that the symbol itself is suggestive of a certain condition.

Q. Why people have fear for some animals of the lower creation? For instance for a

spider. There is a belief that if you see a spider in the morning it will give grief, in the midst of

the day it gives pleasure, at the end of the day it gives hope. What is it that these animals

give?

A. Yes, it is only the distance which is between the evolution between man, which

makes them separate. It is the strangeness between them, not only man is annoyed, but they

are more afraid.

Q. There are many little animals which are on the same level which give us not that

feeling. Still one has always a feeling. Every person has his special horror for a certain

insect.

A. Yes, it only depends upon the temperament of man. When the temperament is fine

and delicate, anything that is ugly looking, or dirty looking, a person has a repulse against it.

There is a meaning: The spider symbolical denotes perseverance, which is the sign of

success. Night is the time when a person begins his life in the world, and morning is the time

when a person opens his eyes to God. If at that time spider inspires you to worldly life it is a

wrong time to a spider. Because the spider weaves a web, and perseverance in the worldly

life is just like weaving a web, and in the midst of the day it gives a hope. Because the midst

of the day is the time when the evening is before you, that is the childhood anticipating

evening. Evening means absorption in the worldly life. You teach a child how to weave. It is

better that it comes in the evening, because it is a success. But if it comes in the morning,

when it is day-break, when there is the sun, that time is not ripe, that is the light. When the

light of God comes, it is not the time of too much perseverance in the worldly life.

Q. Do you give importance to the fact itself that you find the spider, or is it the reflection

only?

A. The reflection only, automatic impression.

Q. Then there is no impression, not even automatic impression, to a person who says

Wazifa without knowing what it means?

A. Yes, an automatic impression is still going on in the person. It will produce a certain

result. But when a person knows the meaning he will benefit by a full result.



Q. If you cannot do it each time, when you are travelling, then rather leave it?

A. In the East they do not know of leaving Wazifa. They never can imagine of such a

thing. Now the travelling is different. One has a seat in the train, everybody is looking at you.

Sometimes there are conveniences in the train, and being alone by yourself.

Wazifa means whispering. If you do it without whispering it is Fikar. No doubt there is

something gained, it is just like voice production. That if a singer has practiced for six

months, and developed his voice, and then gives up his practices for six weeks, he begins to

see that there was something deposited in the bank, the interest of which is coming. He feels

the benefit of the practices he has done before, it is never lost. At the same time breaking of

it is a pity.

Q. Is there a connection between the ninety nine names of God and the ninety nine

Wazifas?

A. Yes, there is connection. Because they are the names of the same Being. At the

same time they each denote a different aspect of the Being. There was a time that all the

different qualities were called one god or goddess. And there were several gods and

goddesses worship. Then it resulted into an absence of brotherhood, and people were

divided because of their separated gods. Therefore it became necessary for the prophetic

mission to bring them all into one God. And it was started by Abraham to do it. In the time of

Mohammed it was done to a great extent. But all the great prophets and teachers, they all

tried their best to bring this conception of unity, of oneness in every way. But then when one

God was given, people said: but what about this god and that god? So then these different

names of God were given to them as the name of one God. So they understood as each of

these names which we use in Wazifa were the names of separate gods for the people. Then

they were made to understand more, they are all different names of One, only showing

different qualities of God.

Q. But why are there ninety nine?

A. Because we human beings are so limited. Otherwise God has many more names

than ninety nine. Also hundred is a number of perfection, and ninety nine are qualities of

God. And qualities of God is less than the Being of God. Hundred is the being of God, and

therefore that name is besides ninety nine, that makes it hundred.

Q. About the language, why are they all Arabic words?

A. That which seems to be Arabic words, happens to be evolved in the Arabic language,

happens to drop in the Arabic language. Just like there are many words of the Sanskrit and



Arabic language which happen to drop in Western language. For instance: “Mr. Russell” – no

one would think that it comes from the word “Rassoul.” And there is a name, “Miss Steer”, in

Sanskrit it is “Stheer”, which means “still”. And this person became so still, that the

advancement in life, and progress in life, all stopped, because of the name. She began as an

actress, but she could not go on, the name itself stopped it. It means still.

Q. then it is a very important Karmic thing, what name we have.

A. We can never say that this word belongs to that language. There is always an origin

and a source of a word, which is behind it. We do not know where it comes from.

There is a French name “Mahmoud”. The origin of it is Mahamout, it has its meaning. Many

such words you can find in different European languages, which have their origin in old

languages. No one knows what the meaning is of it. I could gather at least five hundred

names or more which have some significance according to the Eastern terminology.

Q. In the Western world for long centuries ago there must have been also prophetic

schools and words of power; will it have been the same?

A. In the first place, how many times word has been born, and how many times word

has been destroyed. The history does not tell us this, we do not know who lived in the

Western world. Perhaps not one of these races which are called the people of Germany,

France, England, were not living there. What we can trace is a very short period. What we

can trace is perhaps a little part, a very little part of once cycle. And in that cycle, when we

come to the history, we find that it is the Aryans who went and established for action in all

these countries in Europe. Therefore the origin of the Aryans was in one place. They spread

out. Whenever the prophetic Message came, it came from the origin. Whenever the initiation

came, it came from there. Maybe, when the cycle is over, it may be changed. Every cycle

has an origin of prophetic Message, from a certain side it comes. When people have gone for

action it is quite a different thing than people who have gone for thought. It is quite a different

thing, a line of action and a line of thought.

Q. The fact that certain words have lost their strength, is it not because they have not

been kept secret?

A. No, it was not meant that they were to be kept secret. The first thought was, here is

so much cold. The first thought, how can we exist here in this cold country. Then the struggle

began, the struggle of life. How can we have a chimney, a wall over our heads, woolen

clothes, that keep it from us. The need of woolen clothes made them build factories. It made

them work in all directions, so it put them into actions, it could not be otherwise. The place



did not permit them to go into meditation. Whereas in the other places, for instance in the

East, they said, We have a piece of ground, there is a lot of ground, we shall till the ground,

get from it whatever comes, and we shall content ourselves with it. Under the shade of the

tree we live, the grass around us we can cut it, and dry it, and put it over our head to protect

from the heavy rain. Streams of water in the form of rivers, we can always go and make

ourselves clean. Not many responsibilities, and they dreaded responsibility. That still is in

that race. You will always find that in the depth of that race, it shirks it, it throws it away. It is

too heavy for that person, it does not give him that pleasure, it seems useless. Four days on

the earth, and afterwards to leave it all. To build a beautiful house to decorate it nicely, and

put the money in the bank, and have all the luxuries in life. Even that now is not to be had.

Struggle of life is so great, that few who can have, those are not allowed, because now

another phase is coming, they will not let anybody have it. They say if I cannot have it, you

cannot have it too. We shall all go without it. It is a difficult problem.

Q. How can you explain that in France there are not many mystics? More in the North,

Sweden and so on.

A. Because the earthly struggle has been less there. In France more. It was a land

around which all other lands have been busy: England, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, and

busy people all around it. It was obliged to work. It is the work, it is the life’s responsibility that

takes away from man the inclination of mystical ideas.

Q. Still it must be done.

A. For instance, I have traveled nine years in India with a little rug to sit and sleep on. No

bed, no mattress, nothing. One little sheet to take over myself, that was all. My pillow was my

head. Pillow was too much of a burden to carry, I would not have it. That shows that a soul,

and especially a soul whose thought is in the other direction, that I do not want things, the

lesser the better. But suppose, if I continued the same here, next day I would catch cold.

Q. What about the people who have in fact both the inclinations in them, action and quiet

life?

A. that is very nice. I would like very much if one side is more than the other, whichever

you like. If they were equal it would not be nice, it would ruin life, life would not have action.

Q. Young: action; old: mystical side?

A. that is what they believe in the East. That is all right. At the same time if you have

inclination to it from youth, you cannot help it. Many who are old, who have no inclination

towards it.



Q. Are we now having the fifth cycle finished?

A. Numberless cycles. Fifth, are people who want to limit them. Many root races, but as I

say, it is only limiting God’s creation into cycles. Cycle is for our conception. That we know

that the part of the past is only a little part of that one cycle.

Q. Is not a new race now coming?

A. Continually a new race is coming, in different forms, and in different ways. In the ways

we know, and in the ways we do not know. It is true also that there comes a time when there

comes an end to the whole world.

Q. Why not once cycle?

A. Because the whole life you can picture in a kind of round form. There is an infancy,

then age, and youth, as you go on like this. There comes a time that in the age one is just

like a child, the same thing comes again. In music also you see the higher and higher note,

then there comes a note which sounds the same as the one which comes before. It is the

same. It is a great phenomena when we think about it. So it is with all things. Everything has

a starting point and a culminating point, and its finish. Rising, touching the zenith, and then

setting. We call them by different names, it is just one cycle, it goes round, there is no

parallel.

Q. It will come to an end?

A. Everything intelligible has an end. What is beyond intelligence has no end. In other

words, everything that begins must end. That which has no beginning has no end. Nothing

begins, that is human. We have a name as birth and death.

Q. When there comes an end to this creation, then God has nothing more to be

conscious about Himself. When God is not conscious of Himself, who is then conscious

about anything?

A. ..

Q. Is it right that if creation is at its end…..

A. (It only means) what do you mean by creation? The world? If the world ends then

there are many other planets, it does not mean that the whole universe ends.

Q. What do you mean when you said: there comes an end to all?



A. yes, an end to all things. There are times when there comes an end to an individual,

town, city, country, to the planet, one whole planet, and so universe is subject to the same

thing. If there remains, there remains only one thing. That which is, and that which will be,

and that which was. But we need not be afraid, that end is not going to come soon.



10.07.25 External Zikars

I want to explain the nature of the two External Zikars.

In the case when you have to tell a mureed about the external Zikar that you may be

perfectly acquainted with it. We divide these two External Zikars in two grades, the first and

the second. The first is generally given to a man, the second is generally given to a woman.

But it does not restrict you to this rule. You may give the first to a woman and the second to a

man. Recognizing a very extremely fine quality in man, you may give the second to a man;

recognizing steadiness and strength in a woman’s character you may give the first. The

External Zikar may be done in three different ways: sitting on the ground, cross legged,

sitting in the chair, and standing. External Zikar must not be given to a person who is not yet

ready to understand the unity of God, who still wishes to linger on, so to speak, in the small

things of the world. That person is not yet ready for the External Zikar. A person who wishes

to rise above the small things of every day life it is that person who must be given the

External Zikar. You will say what do I mean by it, must a person not be worldly? I say, yes, it

is a mistake not to be worldly and to be in the world. I think it is more balanced if a person

can be worldly in the world. Only the thing is that it is not all important for him, there is

something else which is more important. Who attaches a greater importance to spiritual

things and less to worldly things, it is that person who must have it. For instance, there is a

person who says, you have invited me to the Gatha reading, but I have been invited to a tea-

party. I cannot help it, if I had not been invited to a tea-party I would have come to the Gatha

reading. That person may just as well wait a little longer. But the person who thinks, no I shall

not lose this opportunity; but when the tea-party is at another time I shall go to the tea-party

also. This is the person to begin with. Now I shall make before you the illustration of the

External Zikar. The illustration of the External Zikar is to fix before one one’s own image. Do

it with open eyes, it is difficult, but it is most wonderful. When once one has accomplished

this, one has arrived to a greater psychic and occult power. You cannot imagine to what

extent this gives you a power when you are once able to produce your image before yourself.

And the action that is first done is to have the right hand from left shoulder to one’s right

shoulder, making a horizontal line, then raising the hand upwards to the center between the

forehead, and then to draw in downwards, that means perpendicular line. This makes it a

cross, really speaking, this line is of a preparation, the other line makes it a cross. What one

must repeat at the time of making the horizontal line is, “This is not my body;” at the time he

is raising his hands towards the perpendicular line he says nothing; when he draws it he

says, “but this is the temple of God.” The person may have the rosary in his left hand, each

time he has made this line and repeats the word he has taken one bead, according to the



prescription given, he may do this fifty times or a hundred times. No doubt it needs a great

concentration, because while you are doing this action and while one is saying the words, if

one is thinking at the same time of something else he will not be benefited by it. One must be

able to keep in one’s mind one’s own image before one and do it in this way.

The other way, which is the second way of External Zikar, is to do with the eyes, and is to do

with the mind. That is to draw a line with the glance upon one’s own image produced before

oneself. And one must think that two eyes at the end make one line, one sight. It is just to

imagine it like a pen, a pencil. When one has done this perpendicular line and horizontal line,

the same way as one does with the hand, not moving the head too much and too violently,

but gently and repeating mentally, not speaking: “This is not my body, this is the temple of

God.”

And now I want to explain to you that the magicians of the old used to bring Satan, devils, by

making a place for the devil. They cleaned the place, put a seat there and made a place. And

when they made a place then they called the devil there. When the place is there the devil

comes; they made it do anything they liked. To make a place is to make an Akasha for the

person. When you make yourself an Akasha for God to be enshrined, that is the only

purpose for which this body was made. It was made that God may take charge of it, may be

awakened in this body. By doing this, one fulfills that purpose, one opens this place for God,

one makes it the place for God, and says now you be enshrined in this place, it belongs to

you, you made it.

It must be understood that in order to become worthy for spiritual practices one must give up

every intention to accomplish worldly things, by wonderful powers, because that works as a

sword against everything. However just we feel ourselves, and right, to attain something, to

gain something which is worldly, we must never use spiritual power. It is like giving pearls to

buy pebbles; our loss in it is greater than our gain. The higher powers must be used for

higher attainment. This is the only attainment that is worthwhile. A higher power must never

be used for a lower attainment, it is a loss. Besides, our powers diminish by the denseness

and smallness of our motives. And our powers increase by the fineness and by the greatness

of our motives. Therefore, always before making any spiritual practices one must think that I

have no worldly motives for which I would like to use my powers. But then you may say, what

shall we do in our limitations, in our earthly lives? When we have a trouble, when we have a

difficulty, what shall we do? The answer is there is a way of doing it. You can become like a

child before God and as a child asks his parents, tells them his needs, what he wants, he

wants a sweet, a toy, it is a little thing, no doubt, but at that time was great for him, he wants



it, he has the right to want it, he may have it. But in this way, not in the other way. When he

has come to a spiritual power, he has a trust with which great things can be accomplished,

high things, heavenly things, no ordinary things. No doubt, everybody cannot be resigned to

the will of God. Besides, everybody lacks those fantasies, he has not got all the toys he

wants, he may ask for it, he is perfectly right in asking for all he wants. That is alright. But it

would be prudent if a person asked that, if it is for his good, then alone grant me that; if it is

right according to Your perfect wisdom, then only grant it. For myself I do not know what is

best for me. That is still better, because that gives you with your desire and motive a

resignation, that if God does otherwise, to be resigned and think it is for the best. We human

beings are made so avaricious, that we are never satisfied, we can go on asking and asking

and asking. There comes no end to it. Therefore asking is right as long as we also develop

the quality of being resigned to what is given to us. To appreciate what is given to us and to

be quite willing to take life as it comes.

Q. Is it better to do the External Zikar in the dark?

A. Yes, I should think that one could have a little dim light. It is something, you must

imagine you look at. Glaring light is always against concentration.

Q. (something asked about Solar Plexus and heart.)

A. There used to be, when we had a … (candle?) light, we used to have a kind of

chimney, and behind a reflector, that would reflect the light outside. This piece of heart which

is on the left side is the reflector of the solar plexus. Therefore on the physical body this

place feels and what this place feels every feeling, anger, passion, wonder, laughter, grief, all

these things are felt here. But in the solar plexus they are felt more profoundly, the left side

only reflects and makes it more physical. Because people by great worry and anxiety begin

to feel in their heart something wrong. And very often many diseases follow it. When the

heart is affected, then every disease follows; and there is a cure for everything except for the

affected heart. When the heart is once affected it is very difficult to cure it. But the real light is

in the center of the breast, not on the side; the side is only the reflector. The real heart is in

the center. The piece of flesh which we cal heart we call it heart because when a person is

not sensitive to the center heart then he is only sensitive to the piece of flesh. Really

speaking, the heart is in the middle.

Q. Have we five centers? Will you name them?

A. There is a center which is the most important, it is the solar plexus. The most high

center where one feels the highest Samadhi, or ecstasy is above the head. There is a center

between the eyebrows. And there is a center in the abdomen, a wonderful center from a



physical point of view. Because the digestion and the assimilation of the food and especially

the effect of food is all made in the center of the abdomen, near the navel. The fifth center is

the bottom of man’s body. The five centers are called: Arsh, Kursi, Louh, Kalam, Arsh-ul-

Azam. The throat center is a semi-center, not a full center. Between the shoulder blades also

a secondary center.

Q. What is the best time for prayer, in the early morning?

A. Rising sun and setting sun are the best times.

Q. Is there a difference?

A. For worldly inspiration the morning is better and for the spiritual the evening is better.

Q. Better to have a dim light when meditating, but how when meditating during the rising

sun?

A. At that time you need not close your eyes. The sun helps a great deal.

If one would ask me what wish must we make with the rising of the sun, and what wish must

one make with the setting of the sun, I would say that one must make with the rising of the

sun a wish that all the struggles in life I may meet with power, wisdom and strength; and that

I may be able to better the condition of my own life and of others every day more and more.

And if you asked me what must one ask at the setting sun, I would say that, ‘let me draw

nearer to you every day more and more’.

This: ‘let me progress in my life not diminish but grow to its fullness’, and, ‘make my end in

this world full of satisfaction, full of honor and glory, that the beauty may follow me to the end

and that it may not leave me on the way’.

Q. Is for young people the morning better?

A. Young or old, there is a day; that day must not be forgotten. Among the ancient

Greeks, when they had a feast, a dance, an entertainment going on, they used to make a

dummy taken through the room that they may remember that it was not only feasting, but

that there was one day which cannot be avoided. For the persons who are all the time in

worldly things they do not think about it. But a person in spiritual things must not be ignorant

of it. It is not that one must draw it near or want it, or ask for it, but one should not be ignorant

of that day. Besides it prepares one. In Europe there is a custom of raising the hat, greeting

the dead. It is the same custom, it has the same meaning. It is not that one honors that

person, but one has honored God’s command, one has accepted God’s command.





15.07.25 The different forms and figures

I wish to explain today the different forms or figures which are given to different mureeds.

To draw by their glance over their bodies. The other day, when I told you of the External

Zikar I only gave you one figure, and that was the figure of the cross. It was for the idea, but

there are different figures used in External Zikar and in the Inner Zikar.

There is a figure of the crescent, and of the five pointed star. And this can be drawn in this

movement:

This is not my self

But this is the shrine of God

(Crescent below, and star above)

With Inner Zikar only to imagine, not to make the form with the eyes.

The third figure is the arrow and bow. The figure of the arrow you do not need to repeat, just

like the crescent. The form of the bow is quite enough to represent for one’s thought:

This is not my body (crescent from left to right,

This is the temple of God (arrow downwards)

The fourth figure is the circle: (from left to right)

Then there is the square: 2

1. This is not my body 1 1

2. This is the temple of God 1

Then there is the triangle:

1. This is not my body 1 2

2. This is the temple of God 1

The same thing must be done with the eyes.

Now I shall explain the meaning of each figure, and why it is to be given. What is generally

needed, a need of every person, is self-effacement, because that is the most difficult thing



possible. And it is for the self-effacement that is the sign of the cross. Therefore if you give

this practice then it is allowed for everyone to take it. You do not need to think it is for that

person, not for that person. Because for every person it can be right.

And then for a person who is loveless, or perhaps in the world no one is loveless, one person

may appear to have less love than another person; a human person is made of love, he

cannot be without love, but as our understanding goes, as we think there is a lack of love in

his life, then the bow. The bow is the symbol of Cupid. If Murshid would give this to a person

who is most kind, because this is the greatest gift you can give to a person, to develop that

faculty. And the arrow is supposed to strike the heart of the person who is doing it. So

therefore you must know that it is only given to the loveless, but also to the loving one,

whose path in life happens to be of devotion.

The crescent and the star, that is for the light, the divine light. When you think that the

divine light must kindle that person’s heart, then you give him crescent first which makes his

heart respondent as the crescent is responding to the light of the sun. Crescent reflects the

light of the sun, and so when man reflects the light of the sun, is the sign of the crescent. So

by the sign of the crescent man becomes reflector of the divine light. And the star is the sign

of divine light itself. The five pointed star suggests perfectly kindled divine light.

Q. Why is the crescent moon turned with the hollow to the star, because actually the side

of the moon is turned to the sun?

A. The thing is this, that the crescent in this case is only the symbol of the heart, and the

star is the thing which reflects in the heart, and when the crescent opens itself. The

symbology is when the heart opens, then the light comes into it. The crescent is the sign of

the respondent attitude, then in the heart of the crescent comes the light of God.

And now coming to the meaning of the square. This is especially given to the person whose

mind is not anchored. Because square is the sign of steadiness. It is on the four legs that

the animals walk and it is on the four feet that the chair is made to stand. If not, it would

wobble. Minds which are impressed with the square will become balanced and steady..

And the sign of the circle is the widening of the outlook. And this may be given to the

person whose outlook wants to widen. So these are given as different practices.

Triangle is to be given in whom you wish peace to be developed, because when a person

stands with his legs apart, and with his hands: that is the five pointed star, that means that he

is ready for action. When a person sits cross legged, hands on knees, that makes a triangle.



This triangle is the sign of peace. And the person who will have this, will lose the unrest of

mind, troubles, worries, anxieties.

Therefore these External Zikars must be given considering all this.

17.07.25 On speaking

(Questions and Answers given after Sangatha I, page66-68, on speaking)

Q. In a great public there must always be persons which are adversaries; one is sitting

there, one there. Now not to look at them?

A. Most often what happens is that you have someone sympathetic. One person is quite

enough. You look at that person all the time.

Q. If there is a person who would really like to disturb you, and is hiding himself, but you

feel the presence?

A. Not to look in that direction; that is always the important point. Because as soon as

you look, you open the doors of your heart to that person, and you are struck. As long as you

keep your eyes away it will not touch you, it does not strike. Sometimes it is very trying. An

antagonistic person can make the speaker quite out of balance. One person can spoil the

whole lecture.

Q. Does it matter speaking to an invisible person? Some people cannot bear to look at

the audience.

A. Yes, that is alright. As long as you see that person in the direction where the

audience is.

Q. ….. the in-between method, not writing everything down, but making a few notes?

A. That is a stepping stone to the other development.

Q. Is it a good thing to think about the subject beforehand, even if you are going to speak

without writing it down first?

A. Yes, it is better to begin. Of course after some years’ practice then it does not matter

to just start suddenly to speak. But it is a matter of practice. Those who jump from great



heights, first when they practice, then they get their balance, then they jump. When they

have practiced for some years they jump without getting balance first. It is just a matter of

practice.

Q. Is it more powerful not to repeat?

A. That is what I call exaggeration. Exaggeration is a decorative, in speech and in

poetry. As long as it is not too much.

Q. Is it not more difficult to make a finish than to make a beginning? The finish must be a

climax to find a real end?

A. It is better to find a real beginning, not to find a real finish. If you find a real finish it will

hinder the continuity of your idea. Let the finish come as an outcome of an inspiration. What

you have to build is the foundation. If you can think of the foundation, how you will start, and

then to go on, and let it finish automatically.

If you have a scheme in feeling how you will finish, it is a different thing. But if you have that

in words then extemporizing is spoiled. Extemporizing is always spoiled when you have a set

thought in your mind. A set phrase paralyses. There is one thing: to improvise words, and

there is another thing: to improvise ideas. Ideas, then you do not need to set ideas before

you. Better first set words before you to improvise ideas, next thing is to improvise ideas.

Whatever happens, a speaker must feel like a warrior. If there was antagonism, lack of

response, whatever difficulty there was, he must not allow himself to be affected, and he

must not lose his patience till he has given the whole lecture. One needs a great endurance

to do it. Sometimes the battle is so great, and you must stand through it all patiently till you

have delivered your lecture fully. And if one feels that, “Oh, I cannot endure it any more,” and

he ceases to speak, then that is a setback, that is an impression of a defeat. That impression

one takes. Next time something else….. that will make him still more impressed. The person

will become less and less interested in speech. It is always like a battle to speak.

No doubt, it is very difficult to do both things at the same time: to be considerate, and not to

care for the idea of the other. But by being considerate one rises above the opinion of the

other, because then he knows: I have done my best not to make a mistake with the feelings;

but if they have antagonistic feelings, I cannot help it. One is at least satisfied that: I did not

antagonize them.

Q. How can you shut yourself from what one feels.



A. One can get over nervousness by thinking that: I am not giving a lecture, I am only

giving a talk. To talk to one person, or to talk to many persons, that is the same, - that must

be the feeling. As soon as you are thinking that you are lecturing, that makes you nervous.

Think that you are talking to one person, that makes it easy.

Q. There are always persons who do not agree with our Message. We must not think of

them?

A. Never. In Southampton there was a clergyman, very sensitive to antagonistic people.

He sometimes felt it intuitively, and said, “Will you, gentleman, please go out of the church? If

you want to feel antagonistic there is no use sitting here.”

Q. Do you think it is good to say a prayer before speaking?

A. Yes, it is good to have a silence before.

Q. Can you say something on the working of inspiration. Sometimes in such queer

moments, when doing something very material an inspiration comes.

A. Well, one must draw inspiration at times when one needs it. By thinking that: I draw it

at this time; then inspiration is accustomed to your desire of drawing. The moment you draw

the inspiration is at hand. Then you may be without inspiration all day long, but at that

moment it will come.

Q. I have heard of one of your mureeds, he does not prepare anything, he knows that

everything will come through you. Of course that is not in a psychological line, it is another

line. It is very grand.

A. Yes, it is grand; only one must go gradually in that way.

Q. What is the correct attitude in order to get the inspiration at the moment. Is it the

negative attitude?

A. If one wishes to deliver a lecture on a spiritual matter, which can only come from

inspiration, he cannot receive it if he did not have the negative attitude.

Q. I think the greatest difficulty is when one has a negative attitude to control at the same

time with his intellect what he says. How to be negative and positive at the same time?

A. It is not controlling himself what he says. It is consideration. That is quite a different

thing. Consideration is not a control. It is a very gentle form of control. A negative form of

control. It is a regard for those who are present, that he may not say something which would

strike their sensibilities. And it is a very delicate subject. The more delicately one looks at it,



the more delicately one sees it in that light. There is a certain amount of self-consciousness,

however negative you may be. And that self-consciousness is to keep to that conventionality.

Q. ?

A. The force you are given when you are negative. There are many speaking with

undue force. But that force does not keep the audience. They listen to the lecture of that

man; they think how wonderful, but it does not go through. Too much power is a hindrance to

the impression. Besides, inspiration has a power of its own.

Q. Does it matter if the inspiration comes days or weeks beforehand? And use it later in

a lecture? Is that equally forcible?

A. Yes, but it is not regular. The regular thing is that it must come when you draw it. It is

a different subject. Inspiration sometimes comes every day so many times. And then

sometimes it does not come. Then one must not be disappointed, because it is just like ebb

and flow.

Q. How can one call for inspiration?

A. By stilling mind. By having faith that inspiration will come.

Q. You do not propose to it any subject? Leave it to come?

A. Yes, one may propose to inspiration a subject. But it is inspiration which very often

proposes a subject.



22.07.25 On speaking

Wednesday

(Sangatha I, 69-70)

Today I will repeat again the thoughts that help one in speaking.

One must absolutely give up the fear what opinion others will form on one’s speech. One

must not say anything that one is not sure of, and therefore what one says must be a word of

power, because what one says one means. That is the only speech which will penetrate

through those who listen. For someone who begins to be a public speaker one must

formulate ideas beforehand, but not too long before; just before speaking, so that they are

fresh in one’s memory. Those who keep ideas which they intend to speak for a week before

the lecture, they wear out their memory. It is too much strain on the memory to hold that

thought in it. Once you are sure of what you are going to say and of the truth of it, then never

mind the antagonistic attitude of others, but only garb your words in such a beautiful form

and soften them so much that they will not strike a person too much. For that you will have to

make a choice of words in the expression of thought, you will have to put a mute, and that

mute is a touch of humor or a sympathetic touch together with it, that it will not strike too

hard. Consideration of human feeling must be always there in the speaker; that is the

speaker’s greatest responsibility; and it comes in a long time’s practice. The speaker must

know how far he must go, and that he must not go further than that. The speaker must know

how far he must assert himself, and how far he must not assert himself; how much he must

commit himself, and how much he must not commit himself. He must know that he is

responsible for his speech, and at the same time he must stand above all that makes him

anxious and that makes him self-conscious.

The speaker must be so lost in his idea, the subject that he speaks upon, that he must not for

one moment think of himself while speaking. Anything that one has spoken that was not

meant by one must not try to bring excuses for it, one must not try to correct it. By doing so

one will engrave deeper still the idea which he himself did not like. He must pass it by, he

must not think about it, only be careful for what he will speak then.

An intuitive speaker will certainly catch the thoughts of his audience, thoughts springing from

their heart as a question-mark , and will automatically answer every question, that when they

go from the lecture they each have received their answer. This no doubt will interfere with his

plan which was made first to speak before the audience, but he must put it so beautifully in it



that it is woven inside like an embroidery work. That it seems that the work of embroidery

was meant to be there; that it is not a patch.

Never utter a word of which one is not sure, and never say something only to please the

others; it all weakens the power of speech. Often a speaker is influenced by his own

personal condition of mind to speak, and he may put in his speech a substance that will bring

him forward before others, his weaknesses, his lacks, his deficiencies, his infirmities. He

must be careful of it. In that way all that is stored in the mind will come out. Besides if there is

in the audience someone at whom the speaker wants to hit, that is still worse, because that

is again personal, and it ruins the lecture. A speech given before the audience must be

above any personal feeling of oneself or someone in the audience. The subject must be the

central theme, and one’s knowledge of the subject is the power behind it. The way one

speaks is the skill of the speaker. One must not concern oneself with the thought that one will

interest or one will win the audience after having spoken. One must only feel that, it is my

destiny to give this talk, and by doing so sincerely and wholeheartedly I fulfill my duty. A little

touch of indifference in this way will help the speaker a great deal.

Q. Is it not a gift?

A. Everything is a gift. One must never say that one has not it. God is such a Giver;

when you ask Him, He will give all you want sooner or later.

Q. but when there is too much nervousness?

A. In that case it is better not to do it.

Q. If you are speaking inspirationally; if you say, “I will speak through you,” in that case

not prepare what to say, or very little?

A. In that case one need not prepare.

If one stands before the audience, they can expect something, they have the right to expect

something and you have the right to say something. Very often, what happens, one has a

poor opinion of oneself, and that brings about a terrible poverty. It brings about an effect

upon the nerves.

Q. How to get above it?

A. Still you can feel in a way as I have said, if they think they have the right to expect

something, then we also have the right to say something. It may be poor or rich, what it is,

we are given the tongue and voice and lips, that shows that it is meant that we should speak.



Q. One feels oneself so inferior.

A. We are inferior but for God. When we think of God, then where is inferiority? We, as

human beings, we are limited; but God is not limited. We give ourselves to God. If there are

ten thousand persons standing you can speak before them the least idea. What they expect

God can give them; you can only be the channel.

Of course very often people expect stupid things. They expect very much less than what you

can give them; that very often happens. You see, in my early days of work, one day I came in

contact with a family who were supposed to know music very much. So when I went there,

they said, “We cannot have anything which is not up to the mark.” I said, “That is what I

want.” “We have heard that you can give some song.” I said, “yes,” And when singing they

said, “This is not what we want, excuse me.” Well, I thought, that a little still higher I must

sing. So I sang, “This is not quite the thing we want.” Then I understood what they want now.

So I sang a little lower thing. “That is somewhere near.” Now I thought, I know what they

want. They said, “That is the best thing, that is what we wanted.”

There are people who will say, “It is so simple, we have also known it. “ Some say, “It is not

intellectual;” others say, “It is all muddled.” But never care; as they have the right to form an

opinion, you have to form ideas. They have the right to hear, you have the right to speak.

22.07.25 Speaking

Wednesday (same as 01.07.25)

There are certain practices which help a person in speaking. One practice is to

breathe through the nostrils deep, and to bring the breath from the diaphragm, and then to

exhale that breath by blowing it out by the mouth. And such hundred breaths must be taken

either lying in bed or sitting on the floor cross legged or standing. Besides that, closing the

eyes and looking at the five pointed star, holding the thought of the star still, and not allowing

the mind to waver. These practices will help you to keep on your subject, on the subject that

you are speaking. Every day for five minutes.

Besides this there is a concentration which must be done just before you are

speaking. And that concentration is that with all those who are in this room I unite in God,



with my whole heart. There must not be a barrier, that this person who is sitting in that corner

is my enemy, or that person in that corner is my worst opposer. That thought must not be

there. The thought must be that all those who are sitting here are my friends, I

wholeheartedly unite with them all in God. That produces a wonderful effect. When you are

one with all there is no barrier, that is a great secret.

Q. Sometimes some people are very difficult to talk to.

A. That feeling is not right. That feeling must be put out of one’s mind. In singing also

you will find the same. It is to be thankful that you could much better than you do. It would

spoil your whole singing. When there is a thought of antagonism, the whole thing is spoiled.

You may repeat in your mind that, “You are all my friends, I sympathize with you all, and I

unite with you all in God.”

Q. Is it true if one begins a speech, does one really see the subject? I thought he looked

at the audience, but did not see them.

A. It depends, in my case, if there were a thousand persons in my audience, each

person I see separately. Not as his appearance outside, but as he is inside, his attitude

towards my lecture and towards me. Each person individually.

Q. ?

A. Breathe from the diaphragm, with closed eyes see the five pointed star, and repeat

Wazifa at the same time, “Ya Wahabo,” inhale and exhale, repeat again. Divine flow of

inspiration, means the sacred name of God. The God Who represents the flow of inspiration,

or the flow of life. In many ways a very useful word; in business, in profession, in reading, in

writing. One must picture sometimes with Ya Wahabo the flowing of life, or running water,

because that symbolizes progress, life.

Q. Is there any special time of day which is best for this practice?

A. First thing in the morning.

And now after a lecture, if anyone asks a question, there are some considerations in giving

the answer. There are answers which you cannot give, or which you must not give. In that

case it is better to say that this is a question which can be answered privately, afterwards.

Then there are personal questions, a person may ask. And the speaker must be wise

enough not to commit. If not, he is gone. For instance, “What do you believe? What is your

opinion about it? What do you think about it?” the speaker is not there to say his personal

opinion, or what he personally believes. Or perhaps his belief is so great and so high, it



cannot be put in words. Therefore always avoid it. Say, “that is a personal question.” One

says, “What would you do in this case?” Always say that, “Well, I would not advise you to do

the same as I would do in that case.”’ Because every person must do what they would do,

not what another person would do in that case. Because it is not only the case, it is the

person also to be counted.

Then there are questions in which people want you to commit yourself, and if you commit yourself then you are the loser, if you do not commit yourself then you have gained. It is just like a game. When there is a question and answer between the audience. Either he can be caught, or he can keep above it. To keep above it is never to commit yourself. As soon as once he commits himself a hundred questions will come to bring him down. So you see, he must feel at the time, “I must not commit myself.” But now you may ask, what committing means? Committing means saying something which gives you in the hand of the other in such a way that he can contradict you, and you have no support from your own self remaining there to hold your argument high. Very often you may be right, and yet you may commit. That is the dreadful part of it. It is not by saying something wrong that you commit, but by saying something right. But one is responsible for what one has said, that is what one has to be careful of. Or, committing means that from your own principle you say what is right, but from the principle of the others you could be defeated. For instance, a speaker told a story: he said that where the saint was sitting under the tree, and the thief came and said, “I want a place to hide, the police are after me,” and the saint said, “Climb in the tree and sit on the branch.” The police came and asked the saint, “Have you seen that thief?” He said, “No.” And now the speaker has said it; the speaker appreciated the part of the saint and felt that he is alright. The audience asks, “Are you of the same opinion as the saint; was the saint not against the state?” or, “Did the saint not encourage him to steal… The saint told a lie!” The saint could be accused of those things. If the speaker was strong-headed he would say, “But it was a saint.” Then the speaker has done wrong; because he thought what the saint did was right, but the others do not think so. He stands guilty before the others; that is the delicate point. The higher you evolve the less you are caught by principle of the ordinary mob. But at the same time if you commit you are attacked by all, condemned by all.

Q. But how could the saint encourage the thief to tell a lie?

A. The eyes of the saint did not see the thief; the eyes have only seen God and nothing

else. If he was a thief then everybody was a thief for the saint in one form or the other. Only

in one form it is not seen as a thief, in another form it is; he is above it. Therefore he can see

… If others follow his point of view they will be wrong; if they encourage it, they will be wrong.

For a speaker it is a difficult thing; thus the speaker’s position is difficult. He is before the

public which can condemn him and they never can understand his point of view. So the

speaker must know the game, it is a game. You must take one word and slip out; put one

word as a screen and get out. The person is looking at the screen, and he is out. It is just like

a juggler who says, “Look here, look here,” and is gone there.





4.07.25 The idea of conducting our study groups

Friday There is a desire on the part of some in the study group, that they must take away with them

the Gathas which are read to them, and many have their own opinion about this question.

Many think that it is more kind on our part to allow such a thing to be done. That once

reading before them does not allow them to grasp the idea, and when they have gone home

they have forgotten. There are some whose memory is not so good as to retain the Gathas in

their mind, and therefore we must let them write or have typed copies to circulate among

them. I come in contact with many workers of the Movement who have said the same to me.

And now there is another point of view to look at it. If one person takes the Gathas in type, or

written by himself, he is or he is not particular to keep them for himself. You may tell him to

do so, you may trust him to do so, but you cannot always depend upon him to do so, then

there are more than we can imagine absent-minded. They can lay a paper on a desk, in a

place where another person can come and read. Besides, physical life on the earth is so

unreliable, that those who are today living and moving, we do not know about them

tomorrow. If they happen to have the papers, they naturally go in the hands of the uninitiated.

They may not appreciate them, then they use them as they want, they may give them to

those who are antagonistic to the Movement. They may make out of them what they like,

criticize it, mock it, burn it, tear it. And there is one story of my own life which I would like to

tell you, which will give you a little glimpse how the Sufi training takes place in the East. Six

months after my initiation I continually went to my Murshid, once every week. You should

have imagined that each time I had gone there I would have been given a new 0practice, a

new lesson on philosophy. But it was not so. My Murshid talked with me on vegetable

growing, and on the Ragas and melodies and harmonies of music. All the time keeping me

on some different subject. Even if I brought him to the point, he would again take me off from

it. And six months I went steadily not asking: give me a new practice; not telling him: will you

give me some teaching on philosophy. One day after six months Murshid spoke to me of one

or two things about the metaphysics. And I so anxiously took out my notebook from my

pocket, and pencil to write the names down, that I may not forget; and so swiftly my Murshid

changed the subject, that therefore before I could write down the subject I was quite in a

different conversation. And I learnt from that day that Murshid did not want me to be so

particular about book learning. He really wanted to teach me what books could not teach. I

also learnt from it the way how a teacher teaches mysticism to his disciple. Not as one can

imagine; in friendly talks, in jokes, in silence, in testing and trying the patience, endurance of

his pupil, in playing, the teacher teaches something which very often without the knowledge



of the disciple wakens in his spirit that real spiritual development which ought to be

developed. Therefore those who become nervous of the papers, Gathas, because they are

not given at home, they only show the lack of patience. After all, the reading of the Gathas

also is a side training. The central training is different. And very often it is not at all in the form

of teaching. Very often it is not known to the pupil that he is being taught. And that is the best

teaching. Therefore the workers of the Sufi Movement must know this in order to answer this

most difficult problem.

Q. For workers, that silent teaching, what must it be?

A. The very fact of some mureeds gathering together in the thought of the Message in

sympathy with their teacher, and in order to hear the words of Murshid in Gathas, to have a

silence together, to repeat Saum and Salat, it is something different from reading the papers

of Gathas as every other book one could read as amusement or a pass-time in their houses.

The very fact of meeting together, having a silence together, saying the prayers together,

and then reading the Gathas. Besides the thought of uniting with Murshid at the same time, it

all produces this development which is necessary on the path.

Q. Do you consider better not to speak of what is read after the reading of the Gathas?

A. It is better that the meeting has passed in that way formally, conventionally, and any

individual wanting to know something about it, stays to speak with the conductor, the leader

of the group privately. Because what happens is this: suppose four persons are devoted and

understand easily, and the fifth person is difficult. For the sake of the good persons you have

allowed that there be a discussion. But the fifth person will take away all the atmosphere that

your presence and silence has created, and the impression that the teaching has given, it will

all be spoiled for others. Now there is an experience of Miss Angela Alt, who has a small

group in Florence, and there comes a person who says in the middle of the reading, “No, but

I do not agree with this.” It becomes difficult for the others; they religiously listen to it, they

wish to drink it in their soul, they wish to have time to assimilate it before analyzing it and

before they have yet absorbed it another person says: No, I do not agree with it. It spoils the

beauty of the whole thing. If that person was held in check by your conventionality by saying:

It is a formal meeting, you cannot speak here, there are other times that you can speak

personally with me. That makes a difference. Some people say: What does it matter if we

speak about it, we do not want to make a mystery of things. But I will tell you once I was

speaking in Madame Simond’s house in Paris on a subject of peace, and after my lecture the

question arose how to bring about peace, the practical side of it. And before I had answered

there was a person who answered the question. The questioner perhaps said that it was silly

what he said. Then that person became hot, and went his fist on the other also, and there



was a boxing match. It began with peace and ended in the battle. We do not know where

disputes will carry people. Besides, there are some who are so fond of talking that instead of

having your Gatha group for half an hour, you can have it for three hours. They care not for

Gathas, they care to hear their own voice. They come only to have an opportunity for

dispute. Very often a person disputes not because he knows, it is because he does not

know; he hides it in his dispute. But it does not mean that he believes the opposite thing. It

only means that he does not know it. But he does not say it. He wants to know it by dispute,

and he will go on and on, and perhaps never be satisfied. It is all right to say that it is the

rhythm of the day, that every person must have the freedom of voice. It is very good. They

have voices now in the state in everything. But in these things patience is required, where

perseverance is needed, where resignation is to be learned, where lips are to be closed, if in

this we have also the same revolution, then where is peace? There is no peace anywhere.

Q. When there are groups of newcomers, then it is very difficult to make a rule for them

not to behave in such a way. Is it not a question of tact to bring them up to that level by and

by? If the person who leads is young, and there are old persons in the group?

A. The thing is this. For the consideration of one aged person we have allowed it. There

comes a second person. We allow for one person, it is right. But there comes another

person. If we do not allow in that case, then the other says: why allow in one case, not in the

other?

There is another point of view. Murshida Green formed a class in London, and of course they

liked very much to come and listen and then they make it as a kind of debating place where

they can express themselves, so they were very glad to join. After Murshida has given a

wonderful address on a point, there comes a person who says, “I do not agree with what

Murshida has said.” And it is not once, perhaps every meeting she has given, there is that

element there. Then those who are impressed by what she has said, their impression is

shaken. It is psychological. Against an opposite remark an impression which is not yet deeply

gone in, is apt to be shaken, is apt to be broken. Murshida had a great difficulty to do

anything against it. She has continued it for some time, but there was always this difficulty.

Conventionality at once keeps things in order. Whether it is religion, or whether it is military, it

is one and the same thing. (If) in the military you allow a soldier to say before the captain:

“No, this is not the place where to go,” every soldier will show another side. There will not be

one point towards which to go. And they feel that it is the great curse of the time, and it is

getting greater and greater, becoming worse and worse. Only so far the advantages of it

seem more noticeable than the disadvantages. But as the time will go, the disadvantages will



come up, and then when one will compare, one will find that the disadvantages are much

greater.

Q. Is it advisable to read the same thing twice?

A. It does not matter. Or a mureed says, that I have not understood it well. I shall come

again and read it. Let him come and read it; four times if he wants to. And if privately there is

a mureed whom you can trust, and whom you think takes care of it, you can always make

exceptions. But to make a rule that is the troublesome part. Of course, this year perhaps we

shall have this question come in Geneva.

Q. What is the difference between the conductor and the leader?

A. the work of the leader is to answer the questions in private. The conductor is

responsible to keep the group together, and - if there is a leader - to allow the leader to

answer the question. In the case the leader is not there he can answer on behalf of the

leader. But answering the questions is the work of the leader. When Sufi Order allows that

after such and such initiation one is allowed to speak on behalf of the Sufi Message openly

before public, then only it is a matter of patience, that not on the first day, but on the last day,

when he is authorized to speak, that he can speak on the subject.

Q. Many think that as soon as they are mureed they are allowed to speak.

A. Then he is not a mureed, but a teacher. The best thing would be not to say that you

are not allowed to speak, but to practice it without saying. It is the saying which troubles

more than the practicing. When you say you are not allowed to do it, at once they are

troubled. To say: Afterwards I will see you again. But when you say: You are not allowed,

that is quite enough. To tell personally, if it is a Cherag he is allowed to speak in the sermon.

But if he is a conductor or leader, he can speak to people in private afterwards. Always this is

the point to understand, that without making them struck by the idea, that you may not, or

you must not, let them not do it, what they ought not to do.

Q. Is there any limit to the number of Gathas we may read.

A. One series is supposed to last for one year. That is the quickest.

Q. In England, in London especially, the distances are very great. If we can only read

one Gatha, they are very short sometimes, and if we are not allowed to discuss. Sometimes

people have to take two hours to come and two hours to go back.



A. In the case of peaceful mureeds who do not dispute for the sake of disputing, who

only religiously ask for the sake of knowing, and there is someone to answer, that does not

matter.

Q. Do you make a difference in the form of the Gatha class and the Gatheka class?

A. Gatha classes are for those who are initiated in the Order. In the Gatheka class there

is no form. It is very difficult to make a rule. You can always make exception. You can always

avoid that tendency that spoils the beauty of the religious atmosphere. If one .. the principle,

one need not be restricted by rules. For instance, it is my great pleasure to answer questions

after the lecture. We are here, having our conversations, questions and answers, that does

not matter. What matters is to give a fuel to some who only wish to talk, because they want

to talk, and that gives a bad principle to others.

Q. In case these people have come from very far, and there is time still, could one not

read over the first Gathas one has had?

A. Of course, it is much better. It is never enough. If it is repeated a hundred times,

hundred times more beneficial it is. Just like a song, if you sing a song for one hundred

times, a hundred times better that song will be. And if a person happens to sing a song for a

thousand times, it will produce a great effect. That is the mystery of repetition. The more you

repeat, the more the thing will open itself. The molecules will open themselves. In conclusion

I should say, that the work of the groups must be considered as most responsible work, and

it must be most tactfully handled. Because it is the leading of the souls, and that makes it a

very important work. In the work of the Sufi Order a conductor’s work is perhaps as

responsible as the work of a Khalif, a leader’s work is as responsible as the work of a

Murshid. And if he did not feel the seriousness and the responsibility of his work he will be

keeping himself back in his own progress on the path.



29.07.25 Phrases

Wednesday

I want to speak today on the subject of the phrases which are given to mureeds. The price of

the prescription that a doctor writes is greater than the cost of the medicine. In the same way

the teacher who writes a phrase, who makes a phrase for the pupil to repeat, his work is

more valuable than the words of the phrase. The phrase may seem simple, at the same time

the very reason that it is given by a preceptor, its value is great. In order to make a phrase for

the mureed to repeat, one must have the knowledge of the character of the person, and of

the nature of conditions which surround him. One must know the person’s want, what is good

for him, and what he must have, and that must be put in that simple phrase. A phrase given

to a person is suggestive, it is suggestive of a certain idea, and that phrase, striking the spirit

of the one who repeats it, will sooner or later produce an action which is done by all the

creative forces within him and without him. In other words, the phrase will act as an appeal to

heavens, where God will grant the prayer suggestive by that phrase.

Q. Since last six months everything has gone wrong with me. Everywhere I go the door

is closed, a wall before me. Is it a planetary influence, bad luck, something wrong with me or

with the others? Wherever I make a move there is a knock against it. Now I have come to a

standstill; I do not know where to move and what to do.

A. It is a reservoir of water, and all the different tubes and channels that are attached to

it, it brings water to the places that it is attached. And if ever in one particular house that

water does not reach, it does not mean that it is in any way on the part of the reservoir of

water. Because the reservoir of water cannot but flow through every channel that is attached

to it. But when in that channel there is some pebble or cork, which is blocking it, then the

running of the water becomes less. Then the person says: Why do I not get water in my

house? It is not the fault of the reservoir, it is the fault of the channel which is connecting it.

Or the pipe is not in good order, either it has become stiff, or does not move. As soon as that

pipe is oiled, the reservoir is meant to flow to send water with all the channels that it is in

contact.

Now the question comes, what this channel is made of. This pipe? This channel is made of

one simple thing, and that is sympathy. And as long as there is sympathy there is never a

………… (blockage?). But what happens generally is, - I have heard this very often from

those people who are extra imaginative, and he can imagine much in his disadvantage, - I

have heard people saying: “Perhaps Murshid is vexed with me, Murshid is cross with me,



Murshid is angry with me.” Perhaps I have taken ten days fasting, I have never known. When

the imagination goes beyond its limit, it makes extra work. It says: God is displeased with

me, Murshid is cross, everything goes wrong. That is why in spite of all the truth that there is

in the link between a sincere mureed and a Murshid, I have always said: please do not come

on my call. Wait for my telegram. For the same reason. Else there would be no reason. It is a

real thing. A telegram is not necessarily a reality. If a mureed does not feel what Murshid

expects him to do, then he is not wakened to mureed’s spirit. It is quite natural that Murshid

does not write or send a telegram. But the mureed knows what Murshid wishes. It is more

than natural. Because it only would give chance to the extra imaginative people that every

moment Murshid has called him, that would be terrible.



05.08.25 Psychological points to remember in speaking about Message

Wednesday

There are psychological points to remember in speaking about the Message. To avoid such

words in speech which produce the impression of weakness and of ill luck. Such words as

ugly or death, or evil, or sin, must be avoided if possible. In speaking you must not only think

of putting our ideas in words, but also the psychology of words. We can always convey the

same meaning which we wish to convey to our audience by putting another word which is not

as bad as the other. Psychologically to say ugly has a bad effect, but to say void of beauty is

not so bad. To say “before his death” is undesirable, but to say “before his passing from this

earth” makes another impression. It is desirable to consider the beginning and the end of the

speech more than the middle of the address, because the beginning introduces the subject

and the end gives the last impression. Any words psychologically wrong must not begin the

lecture and any words psychologically wrong must not end the lecture. If not, automatically

one does harm to oneself and those who hear it. Continual harm is being done by speakers

who are not conscientious of the psychological effect of their words. Although since they do

not know it they do not believe it, nor they who hear they know about it. Nevertheless, the

effect is there. Besides, there are words which in their meaning there does not seem to be

any objection in using them. But they are suggestive of something else. They may or they

may not suggest, but there is always a chance of a suggestion being given, innocently by

having used a word or a phrase that is suggestive of something that we would not like to

suggest.

There are two kinds of speakers. One is likened to the palm tree and the other is like the

plum tree. The one like the palm tree sticks to his subject, clings to the stem of the tree, just

like the branch of the palm tree. And the speaker who is like a plum tree extemporizes, and

goes away from his subject, and then comes back to it, and then makes a curve and comes

back, and then makes a straight line, and then comes back to his subject. And both these

stiles are natural, only one must not make the subject a skeleton by following the principle of

the palm tree speaker, nor one must go away too far from one’s subject following the

principle of the plum tree speaker. It is great art to cling to the subject from beginning to end,

to emphasize the central theme of the subject, it makes the subject as a character which

needs to be built into a personality, making out of that theme a symphony, continually

thinking about the psychological impressions that the words make, and the sensibility of the

audience.



Very often the lack of response on the part of the audience makes a speaker discouraged.

He forgets his subject, he loses his enthusiasm, his inspiration disappears, and he wants to

go away. In order to keep him you have to send policemen. And there is another one who is

so interested in his subject that he never thinks about his audience. They are tired if it is too

much for them. He goes on and on, they have forgotten all he has said, in the end they know

nothing than a tiredness has come upon them. To limit the speech to the desire of the

audience, to their interest is a work that must be done by an intuitive speaker. The best way

of speaking to the audience is to speak in the same manner as you speak to your friend

ordinarily. Not to let one’s mind feel for a moment that I am speaking to an audience. Just to

think that I could have spoken the same to one person as a conversation. As soon as one

makes out of one’s speech a conventional speech he loses inspiration. Speech must not be

artificial; as much one can make one’s speech natural so much is the effect of it on the

audience, and one is able then to draw inspiration from above.

Too long a pause between the lecture or a lecture without a pause both are undesirable. One

shows the absence of mind, the other shows nervousness. Besides, there is a thread

connected with the heads or with the hearts of the audience. And by a long pause one loses

that thread; and by no pause one tires the mind of those who hear him. The expert speaker

during his pause must hold the audience; if not that is the time when they escape, their mind

goes on something else, and the speaker has lost them. Human mind is apt to slip in a

moment, if it is not held. The power of the speaker is to hold every person while he is

speaking, or during the pause. It is this continual current that is running between the speaker

and the audience, that produces an effect which is beyond words.

Q. You mean with pause the pause between the words and the sentences?

A. Of course, pause between words is too undesirable. But pause between sentences.

But it is possible that the speaker will pause between words, and that is very undesirable.

05.08.25 Q & A: class

Wednesday

Somebody expressed his wish to develop occult power in him, and asked how to proceed.

Pir-o-Murshid:

Q. Do you feel that you have some occult power, or inclination towards it?

A. Yes, I think so.

Q. In what way do you feel that you have occult power?

A. I like to have influence upon others, and ….



Q. Have you influence upon others?

A. Yes, I have influence, and I like to make that influence stronger.

Q. Have you any religious inclination, or devotion?

A. My interest in occultism is greater. But as far as religion can help me to …

Q. What do you mean by occult power?

A. To have influence upon others, to know the laws of nature, and that I can rule and

control them. I am not a mystic at all; I like to know the thing.

Q. You wish to know the mysticism, but you are occult by nature.

A. Yes.

The questioner:

As near the heat we must keep a bowl of water in order to absorb that heat, and may (to)

keep the atmosphere nice, so with the occult power there ought to be a spiritual ideal, a

religious ideal to keep your atmosphere right. And if I were to advise you I would say, in spite

of your desire to develop your occult powers it would be better, since you have some

inclination towards religion, to take your first step through the path of devotion. It will balance

your life, and occult powers will come in their own time. The seekers do not pursue them.

They take them as the occult powers come to them. Instead of putting your mind to occult

powers you must put your mind on spiritual things, a higher realization, according to that

saying which is in the Bible, “First seek ye the Kingdom of God, and all will be added.” And if

you have patience to go through this process, this seems to be the desirable thing to do.

Another person was asked to bring forward a question:

Q. I am afraid of losing my freedom, when giving myself under the training of Murshid.

Pir-o-Murshid:

A. do you not think that what we call liberty or freedom is the fulfillment of our wish or

desire? It is the result that we wish to get. We wish freedom to be the outcome of all that we

do in life. But that which is result you cannot make it as your first step. If you begin with

liberty you end in captivity. It is the discipline that should be your first step in order to come to

that goal which is freedom. Can you honestly say after you have thoughtfully considered life

around you that you are free from influences?

Q. I suppose not, but I am afraid that the influence of the Murshid would be still stronger.

A. Yes, stronger; but better or worse?

Then that is not the time to come to Murshid. Only when you know that influence will come to

your good, that is the only time to come to Murshid; before that you are not ready.

Q. How am I to know?



A. You must know your heart, your mind, your feeling. A person who has a confidence,

he will trust a person with his life. Real confidence is such a thing that a person comes before

the person with whom he has confidence with his head in his palms, and says, “Do with it

whatever you like.” That is confidence. If that is not once learned, that person has no

success in this path.

Q. If perhaps one day one thinks that the teaching is not what I expected?

A. Better wait before you know; that what I take I take it to be something for me. If it

leads to Heaven or to the abyss, I will take it. Then only you ought to take. If you are ready to

take either that or the other, if you wish only for one thing, and not for the other, if it came to

pass, then you are not ready, you are not entitled to it. Then go to those who promise you

Heaven alone.

Q. Does not a Murshid see if a person is ready?

A. When a person comes in the Sufi Order, and when he is given an initiation, still he is

not a mureed. We call him a mureed out of courtesy. He is not yet a mureed. When he

becomes a mureed, that is the day when he may be tried and tested without him knowing.

There comes a day when he is initiated as a mureed. There are several different initiations in

the Sufi Order. That is a particular initiation. Before that we call everyone a mureed, as it

happens to be a habit, it is natural to call a person with a better name.

There came one day one of our friends, called Germain; and Fazal Mai called him Saint

Germain.

Q. Mureedship is a path of bewilderment. Why not speak in plain words; it is already so

difficult to be a good mureed.

A. There are two stages of advancement in the life of a mureed. One is that the mureed

knows and understands what Murshid says. And the other stage of advancement is that the

mureed knows what Murshid means. If the mureed is in the stage of advancement where

only he knows what Murshid says, he need not trouble about what Murshid means. If not, he

will make a mistake. He will come to see Murshid before Murshid has sent a telegram,

saying, “Did Murshid not mean that I should come?” Murshid would be surprised; he did not

wish. Murshid only means that he must know what he says, that is quite enough. There is

another stage of advancement, a little further, that Murshid will try once Murshid has felt that

my mureed feels what I mean. Then he will try with contrary words. Then he will say

something, and yet will wait if he has felt what Murshid has meant, or only taken the words

spoken. No doubt, that is a very delicate thing; that Murshid may tell quite a contrary thing to

what he means, trusting that the mureed feels the feelings of Murshid, and giving the mureed



a chance either to follow the words Murshid has said, or Murshid’s feeling. It is a difficult trial,

but at the same time it is this which makes a mureed a mureed. First, when a mureed is in

the first stage, when he needs a word, then Murshid will always say to him what he means,

knowing that he cannot feel beyond words. But in order to waken his feeling to this confusion

of life, the Murshid must become a confusion for him first. To understand this life of subtlety,

to understand the hidden laws of nature, the lights and shades, Murshid must train a mureed,

and himself become an illusion. He says one thing, and means one thing. And he trusts that

the mureed so advanced must know if the link is living there. That is the trust. Real gold must

be tested. But it is after the person has become gold Murshid will not test; when the soul is

silver.

Murshid apart; in your home, your devotion to your mother, father, children, friends, anyone

in life, - when there is a real sympathy there is an understanding of feeling beyond words.

Words are not wanted; and even contrary words will make one feel sure of one’s own feeling.

When Murshid lives on the earth, standing in his physical frame, if his pleasure and

displeasure is not understood by a developed, sincere mureed, then how will he understand

the pleasure and displeasure of God? This is the first step: what pleases Murshid, what does

not please Murshid. How can he know what pleases God, and what does not please God?

He remains in the same place. Murshid apart; - it is in the spiritual path. But in our daily life, if

we do not come to that feeling with someone or the other, that we know the feeling of the

other, that what pleasure or displeasure we call, then we are not awakened, we are asleep. It

is the sign of the friendship that the friend’s pleasure and displeasure is known to us. What

pleases our friend, what displeases our friend. But it is all a path of effacement. Self-

effacement, from the beginning to the end.



07.08.25 No rules for all

Friday

In esoteric teachings we must never make rules for all. To deal with all those who come to

the group. By doing so we hinder the progress of some, who have every possibility to

progress. We must use our discrimination, our intuition, our reason and logic, and our

impressions of the way that Murshid has acted in that particular case. No doubt, everyone of

you will not have the same cases which come to Murshid. You will have new cases, which

perhaps do not come to Murshid, or you have different cases from what comes to Murshid.

Or that they will manifest differently than they will manifest in the presence of Murshid.

Nevertheless, for each new person you will see you will have a new impression and new

experience. And if I gave you a general rule to deal with then, it will never prove successful.

You will have to make your own rules for each one that comes to you for help. And you will

treat them with gentleness, with patience, and you will reach their heart by your friendliness,

and once you have won their heart, then you will begin to be helpful to them. It is the

psychology of human nature that once a person sees that you stand in a position to help

them, he closes his doors. You must always know mankind is very proud. Man is anything

else afterwards, but the first he is proud. If he is humble, if he is modest, if he is gentle,

patient, it is afterwards. And if that first principle is disturbed, in other words, if his pride is

hurt, then he is not longer within your reach. He may be sitting before you, he may be sitting

next to you, but he is not within your reach. Therefore never startle a mureed, never surprise

him, never give him a shock in any way, in any form, never show him too much enthusiasm,

never show him too much indifference, never show him your position as someone who helps,

who leads. But most gently work with a mureed to bring him in the end to that state where he

begins to realize his place as a mureed.

Q. That would hold good even in the case if you come in touch with someone who has

the chance to be helped, and you only can see him for one week, also then go slowly?

A. That does not matter, because quick work spoils. It is not that you would spoil it, I

have spoiled myself many cases, if (only) I would have become slower. If I have made that

mistake, you are likely to do the same. Hundred times I have made that mistake, I have been

too soon, perhaps one day sooner, even in that case I have done wrong.

Q. If you are with someone whom you would like to help, and you do not know how to

begin?



A. The question if help must be put as a secondary question. The first thing is to win the

heart of that person by your friendship, by your sympathy. One cannot help a person without

it. First establish a connection of sympathy, and according to your connection of sympathy

you are able to help that person.

Q. Some are very difficult to reach, even those you know before.

A. Yes, but there are ways to reach by sympathy. Sympathy wins, it works just like fire

works with war. As war melts before the fire, so the heart melts before sympathy. Sometimes

it wants preparation, sometimes a heart is very difficult to melt. It has turned a heart of stone,

a heart of steel, and it wants much more fire than one can give. But in that case of course

you must know the psychology of human nature.

Q. Could you begin with sympathy in some common interest, even in an ordinary,

material thing?

A. Yes, that is another way, and it is a very good way too. To be, to become interested in

their particular need or condition, that is a first step, and then to help them in their particular

need or necessity. The second step would be that they come closer.

Q. There are types of people who are too proud to acknowledge that they want

sympathy. Sometimes they were sooner to be reached by the mind side.

A. Yes, as long as you do not frighten a person. They are always like little pigeons, as

soon as you put your hand there, then they fly. Such is human nature. As long as you throw

grains far away from you, and stand yourself quite at a distance, then they will come to take

the grain. But as soon as you stretch your hand, perhaps it is for their good, but they have

the impression of the cage, that you are going to put them in the cage. In that case it is better

to throw the grain, two, three, four days, till they come near, they approach you.

Q. Too much enthusiasm is a danger for all of us?

A. Of course, that is the worst part of it. We can spoil the work very easily by too much

enthusiasm. Besides, if too much enthusiasm can be assimilated in oneself, it gives a great

power. But if it is expressed, then it makes one weak.

Q. Is it not so more with Northern nations that they are more frightened of enthusiasm?

In the South they rather like it.

A. Yes, nevertheless, the effect of too much enthusiasm is the same in the North and

South both. Of course, in the East people are inclined to enthusiasm. But at the same time it

depends, in certain things they are enthusiastic, in other things they are not.



Q. I think the Northern enthusiasm is more deep.

A. Yes, it is so.

Q. I have two cases of people who say that I do not tell them enough. Is it better not to

say?

A. Yes, but not give them the impression that there is something to say that you do not

say.

Q Must we not also be careful not to exaggerate?

A. You will never exaggerate, one word of truth is a thousand words.

There are some general tendencies of the mureeds which would be recognized, because

generally what happens is, there comes an impatient mureed who does not want to waste his

time. And therefore in a short time he thinks it is possible if you wish to give him more; and if

you do not give him more, then he thinks, perhaps you keep from him something which you

want to give him more slowly. You ought to take a longer time in that case, to give him

patience….

For instance, no one can develop voice in a few months of time. It needs some few years to

develop voice before one can sing. And a voice-teacher will naturally say that you will learn

quickly perhaps. There is a possibility. But that does not mean in two days it is practiced. It

takes time. Spiritual things still more, incomparably longer time it takes.

And the other general tendency is to doubt all that you say. Whether it is right, or whether it is

not right. And as long as that remains that mureed will not profit by the teaching. If you

accuse him of being a doubting person, you will antagonize him. The best thing you can do

therefore is not to give him the reason to doubt first. Then to show him the disadvantage of

doubt, that if time is ever wasted it is in doubting, then he thinks he is not a simple one. He is

very careful. But in this path, where he need not be careful, nothing to do with money and

properties, nothing to do with state and politics. And what is there to be frightened of?

Nothing to be too careful in this path. And if he is careful it is his disease, that he has got in

his worldly pursuit.

Q. Some people say that as soon as one begins the spiritual path all material things go

wrong. Why should it be?



A. I will tell you. When you bake the cake of wheat-flower with yeast in it, it begins to

become larger than it is. And when you bake the cake of wax it will melt and turn into water,

liquid. And that shows that a mureed gets a spiritual charge given into his body and mind and

soul. And with that spiritual charge if his impression is success, then he will be more and

more and more successful. But if his leaning is downwards, then naturally he goes down,

because there is a battery now. He goes quicker than the other, it is natural. Is it not so that a

poet after a glass of wine can write a better poetry? A quarrelsome person after a draught of

wine will quarrel more? The spiritual charge is just like a wine, a tonic. It depends upon the

direction he goes. If he goes with an impression of going down, he goes down quicker. But if

he has a tendency to go upwards then he goes upwards. For instance, just a thing has

happened which is a very wonderful thing, that a young man had an object to accomplish in

his life, and he saw and felt that the whole world was against him, everything against, every

turn he makes it is all against. There is nothing to see in the world that could give him a

reason that things will go right. I happened to see this person. Only once I had seen him. He

said, “This is the time point when I am in a condition that in a moment I will sink. And I think

that you have come just now to save me from this situation.” And I saw the condition of that

person, a terrible state. And he was made a mureed, and initiation was given. And now I hear

that all that he wants to accomplish, in spite of the whole world against him, everything went

successfully. This shows that if an upwards movement makes all things go right; downward

movement makes all things go wrong.

Q. I have not found the purpose of my life.

A. I would like to ask, have you interested yourself in any particular thing, art or science

or a profession, anything?

Q. Singing; perhaps I did not have the perseverance to practice. I have not got on very

far. But I want a real purpose, something that is permanent, I do not know what I want.

A. the best thing would be first of all to try and concentrate your mind that your mind may

come to a stage, a condition, in which you may be able to realize your mind more fully. For

that I will give you some practices for concentrating your mind. Do not bother about purpose,

it will come by itself. If I told you, it may not suit you. It is always the best when intuitively you

feel the purpose.

Q. Is it true that when we have not finished all what we would have liked to do in our

lives, that we come back to this earth to fulfill our purpose, to develop more? Or does not that

form of reincarnation exist?

A. to me it does not seem of great importance whether we return to this world or not in

the physical form. But I do not think any energy is every lost. Therefore what I want



developed in this life will in some form benefit the world in some way or other. Perhaps we

will reincarnate in spirit or to help humanity as a whole.

Q. I have no success in life, I have tried in many ways.

A. I should ask in the first place if you had any such failure that has impressed your

mind.

Q. Yes.

A. So it is the impression of that failure which continues. And it is in the erasing of that

impression from mind that you will be successful. The best thing for you would be to change

your outlook on life, make it more hopeful, and pursue your object with a greater courage.

And remember that from this moment a new page in the book of your life is turned. That

means that now you see success, you dream of success, you speak of success, success is

your object. No doubt could ever come in your mind against this idea. And the concentration

and the practices I will give you, you will do it continually with patience, hope, without

allowing any doubt to come in your mind. And you will have a success.

Q. I have been for some time a mureed, and think it all very beautiful, it gives me a great

feeling of comfort, and connection with Murshid, and the Movement. But I am a very busy

person, and I cannot say the prayers, words that have been invented, even by Murshid. It

must not be something made, it must come from the heart, not something in a definite form.

A. I will tell you. Prayer does not mean a thought. Prayer does not mean a feeling,

imagination. Prayer means words that you say in the praise of the Lord. The words that you

say are recorded on your spirit, and your spirit works like a talking machine continually. Once

you have said the prayer, it goes on in the depth of your mind continually. Therefore perhaps

you have said it once in twenty four hours, but the prayer goes on day and night in the depth

of your soul. Therefore the power of the prayer that is said is great. But since you feel

agitated against the prayer I would stop it. I tell you from today: do not say it; if you can, be

content by prayer in your feelings or thought. What do we want? Our contentment is that they

are satisfied. If a patient says: I am cured, a doctor must not give him a medicine. Medicine is

for the person who says he is ill. If a person is pleased with what he does, we do not wish

something better for him. He is already pleased, that is all we want of him, happiness. If he is

happy without saying prayers, we do not want to make him unhappy to say prayers.

Q. Would he be happier by blindly obeying?

A. No, if it is not his tendency, why must he? You must never make that principle; blindly

following is a pleasure to one; but the one who has not that pleasure he must not follow

blindly.



Q. Somebody told me he preferred to say the old Arabic prayer which the Prophet had

given.

A. What one prefers one must do. If one prefers an Arabic prayer let him do it. You must

never deprive a person of his freedom. Since Sufi Message is not dogmatic we must keep it

without dogma. We must give a person freedom of choice; in order to make others tolerant,

we ought to be very tolerant to them.

Q. The only thing I was afraid of with somebody who really could be a real help. If they

all continued, there would not …

A. But they all would not. If for instance you have been sent there as a leader, if you

gave an individual his choice in his own practices, that does not mean that you make a rule.

But there will be another person who will see the beauty of the prayers. Not to make a rule,

because one person has preferred his Arabic prayers, another person perhaps prefers this.

Besides, why does he prefer the Arabic prayer? Only because he is used to it. There is no

other reason, is there? Because for each time there is a prayer given. It is that prayer for that

time. But you cannot impose upon people. As long as you believe it in your heart, that in itself

is a prayer.



12.08.25 About psychology of writing letters

Wednesday I want to speak about psychology of writing letters.

The first rule is: you must regard your motive, and the effect your words can make on the one

who receives your letter, and to what extent your motive depends upon the impression that

the other person gets from your letter. The beginning of the letter must prepare the person to

read or to know what you wish to say. The middle of the letter must express to the person

your motive, and the end of the letter must make an impression of your motive of your

attitude, of your expectations and of your wishes. Business letters, official letters requite also

a psychological concentration, but friendly letters must be considered still more. When a

letter sent from a person to a person, it must be something living. Not merely words, but a

play of wisdom, a thought, a sentiment. Those treading the spiritual path must consider this

as one of the necessary qualifications to be acquired. One must not disregard personalities

to whom one writes. Very often too much emphasis on a point causes a failure. Very often

the lack of emphasis is the cause of failure. Very often clearness in the letter is undesirable

and very often a clear letter is necessary. And then there are positive phrases, and there are

negative phrases. You can put one idea in positive, or you can put the same idea in negative

phrase. You can affirm, or you can deny. And it all has a psychological effect on the reader.

One can change one’s own luck to the better or to the worse, by the choice of words and

phrases he makes in his letter. Knowing how to write or how to read or how to plainly speak

what one thinks or how to plainly express one’s impulse is a simple thing. Even a child does

the same thing. But being able to choose words and form phrases is as great a work as that

of a composer. You can write a letter which is a symphony from beginning to end. And you

can express the same idea with false notes all over. And so man can make one’s destiny by

the way one writes. One might ask: Is it very good to use very flowery phrases and beautiful

words and mild expressions? I do not say that. What I say is to know the value of each word,

and of each phrase, and to know the effect that it can make on the person you write to. And

for that you must rise above yourself and the other person, in order to see it as a neutral

being. And then make a choice of strong words, if a strength is required to be given, or of soft

words, if you wish to make that effect. No doubt, beauty is the watchword of the seeker,

harmony is the central theme in our life, love is the first principle that one must consider.

When we think of these three things and then write according to the inspiration we receive

we shall always find that it had a psychological effect.

Q. The great writers have they that psychological system? Is it this what makes a person

a writer or novelist or romancer?



A. Of course, but even great writers who have won a great fame in writing lack that

psychological point of view. For instance, I heard of a great writer in Paris, whose name is

very well known, and I asked his friend to translate to me something he had written. Maybe

that his French language is very good and people like him, but what he had written was so

meaningless from the beginning to the end. And there was not a speck of psychology in his

writing. Nor was there any psychology in his presence. The thing is this, that today the art of

writing is dying. Although people say that it is very difficult to make a career in writing, I say

that it is very difficult to maintain a good inspiration of writing this day. There is such a bad

taste, that people like nonsense, say absurd things, that is something for them. It does not

give them much time to think about it, as long as it gives them some sensation. Therefore (a)

good writer always suffers. That I do not mean in our practical everyday life. We in the Sufi

Order must cultivate this one side of nature, and that is a psychological writing, and a

psychological speaking. And you will find that you have a sword and a shield to go through

life, when these two things are accomplished. No doubt I cannot tell you just now in words

what benefit it will bring. But the benefit is so great that I cannot put it in words.

Q. Can writing equal the spoken word?

A. No, writing has not that power as the spoken word. But writing gives you more

possibility of making an impression than speaking, because while you are speaking you

cannot always arrange your words and phrases, but while writing you can choose the

manner of expressing yourself, and that makes a great difference.

Q. When a person writes a book or an article that is printed so many copies, do these

printed books convey the magnetism of the one who wrote the book?

A. Everything that one writes conveys to a certain extent his magnetism.

Q. Even if it is mechanically printed?

A. Yes, even then, because a word that has come out of a person, it has brought a

certain part of his personality in that word. Therefore a letter is a living thing. You can hold

the letter and feel the life in it.

Q. So even a printed book is a living thing?

A. Of course, it is a sample of his personality to a certain degree.

Q. Is it a good thing when opening a letter to begin with the word “you” instead of “I” ?



A. Yes, this is very nice, but it depends what impression you want to make. In the

negative impression it is a very good thing. But when there is a positive impression it is better

to say “I”.

Q. Is always simplicity to be advised?

A. Simplicity in all walks of life. Because simplicity is the real beauty. One must not

restrict oneself to that law: Instead of giving a person dinner, he will only give him cheese

sandwiches. Many persons do it. but that is not expected. Where a dinner is to be given, a

dinner must be given. There is a certain appetite in a person which words can satisfy.

Therefore the words that are expected to satisfy the appetite, these words must be given.

You feel at the end of an address there must be something of climax which strikes the

person, a very fine rhythm of words. The principle is that every last thing has the greatest

impression. All other impressions are beneath it. This last is the final impression. When a

person has finished the letter what remains with him most is the last word he has read in it.

Q. In our busy time …….

A. Yes, it is a great pity. But even if it is not a long letter, it be a telegram of nine or

seven words, even that you can make psychology, you can choose words which you wish to

convey in three, four letters.

Q. Is it the lack of this psychology which makes the written word so misunderstood?

A. Yes, very often one thinks, that if this kind person would not write to me it would be

much better.

A letter is a piece of music you are sending to someone, to your friend to whom you are

really sending your sentiment. Sometimes a person does not know, he has a great feeling

and affection in his heart, but he does not know how to write a symphony. We each must be

composers of our letters.

Q. When one writes often to the same person, must the ending always be the same?

A. It depends how you are going on with that person. Whether it is growing or whether it

is diminishing.

Insincerity is not good. Plain speaking, even that is not good. There are many who are so

outspoken that there is nothing they will leave, they are not satisfied before they have put the

whole thing in words. By that they have put them in a cage made themselves there. They

have committed themselves. It is not always necessary. But at the same time it is better that

one is sincere. Because it is the sincerity which gives magnetism to it. If it is only just words,

no sincerity, it is just like a dead body, it has no magnetism.



Q. What is psychology behind quotations?

A. That is another side of it. Then you have borrowed the magnetism of someone else,

and put in the letter. Perhaps someone else who is much greater than you. That magnetism

carries that weight, therefore it is not a bad thing to do. But at the same time one must

develop one’s own sense of conveying one’s thought gracefully, thoughtfully and ending

according to psychological point of view.

Q. Does the magnetism of very famous people decrease or increase?

A. It increases; the more they are liked by the people, and used , the more the

magnetism increases. The less they are liked the more they decrease their magnetism.



14.08.25 About the Collective Interviews

Friday

I want to say about the Collective Interviews.

These Collective Interviews are intended to give certain instructions, directions to the

workers. And that these instructions will be useful in their teaching in the work for the Cause.

Since this is intended only for some workers one must not give to the mureeds a wrong

impression about them. For if mureeds get the wrong idea that a special teaching is given

during these Collective Interviews then they misjudge the training. In reality these Interviews

are not meant for special instructions, these interviews are (not) made for special teaching,

special training which will be useful for the workers in their work. If there is any teaching

given, it is only in the sacred readings, not in these Collective Interviews, or a personal

teaching is given to every individual. Nevertheless, it is desirable for every worker who

comes to these Collective Interviews to speak to no one what is spoken here, not even to

speak of what is spoken here. For very often one may give an antagonistic feeling for no

reason to the mureeds who are not invited to the Collective Interviews, by saying I have

heard in the class something very interesting. That is quite enough to antagonize the other.

He thinks, “If it is interesting, I am here for this purpose, if I was not there it is a great pity.

Why is there a special privilege granted to certain mureeds. Does Murshid want some to fly

and others to walk, and others to creep?” It is better to say nothing, since it is not meant to

be a class for teaching, it is only meant that you all must rehearse the way how we must do

our work. This is a rehearsal for us to do our work in the Sufi Movement.

And now we shall have some concentrations, in this way, that you will think of something

yellow. I do not want to say what yellow, but something in your concentration, and keep the

mind steady with that object, and never let it waver.

After this we were asked to tell the qualities of different precious stones. Pir-o-Murshid said

about the sapphire: sacrifice, air element. Air element is suggestive of imagination, building

castles in the air, and because it is in the air, that is why it is celestial. Because it has a sky

color, that is why it is pure. Its effect, just like the sky, is reflected in the water, so the

sapphire is reflected in the person who sees it, or wears it. It gives that person who

possesses or looks at the sapphire the same qualities. There is no stone in the world that

gives so strongly its own quality as sapphire. In India there is a belief that if you wish to know

the direction of your luck, whether it is going to the success side or failure, you only have to

wear a sapphire for three days. In three days you minutely watch your life, you will see the

side it goes. If it is profitable you will wear it, if it seems not to be profitable you must not wear



it. Why sapphire brings such a quick effect? Because it is connected with the air element. As

air is quick, so sapphire is quick in its effect. It is a good color for a composer, poet, thinker,

for the seeker of Paradise.

Q. Has it not also to do with love?

A. It has to do with art for this reason that it is imagination. It has to do with love also

because love is fire. But the air keeps up, therefore it maintains love, it keeps the fire going,

but it does not directly represent love element. It represents art, because it is imagination.

The air does not represent light, the air keeps the light going, but the air can blow it also.



19.08.25 Rhythm

Wednesday

Rhythm of four: peace and balance, and proper discrimination

Rhythm of five: unbalanced, fight with people

Rhythm of three: negative

Rhythm of seven: lacking positive strength

Rhythm of nine: confused, people who are confused and puzzled.

The musical mystics have found this out, by creating that rhythm (in his listeners) and seeing

how it affects (them).

Q. With the walking Fikar there is always two, four, eight, mostly four. With which leg

must one begin, always with the same leg?

A. First the right leg.

Q. There were two twins, one of them died, the remaining can think of nothing else, but

his whole interest in life is gone.

A. Is it your devotion and your love for your sister that makes you think of her so much,

or is it the deep impression of her death which you cannot hold (haunts you)? Are you

holding her in mind willingly or unwillingly?

Q Unwillingly.

A. So it is not your love, it is an impression. That impression must be erased. It takes

you away from all other interest. In order to erase this deep impression is to in the first place

sit for a moment and think of nothing; bring about a kind of blankness, and then think of the

five pointed star which represents human perfection. This blankness will wipe it off. And this

new impression will give you hope, courage to rise. This you should hold in your mind, every

day two, four, or ten minutes. With a hope that every possibility of all that is good and

beautiful will be opened before you.

Q. I am disgusted with life, with my fellowmen, I always try to be friendly to all, but I

receive nothing but unkindness. Life seems not worthwhile to me. What shall I do?

A. Why must you have no confidence in your fellowmen if one or two persons have

disappointed you? How many persons have disappointed you?

Q. I always have been disappointed in my life.

A. How many, perhaps a few hundred persons?



But how many millions of people there are in the world. Can you compare with the hundred

persons the millions and millions that live on the earth? Can you not have a hope that if you

are disappointed by one hundred persons, perhaps with ten hundred you could have another

experience? There is life before you. Even if it were that all your life through you had

disappointments, still if I were you, I would be hopeful and expecting that even to the end of

my life I will meet someone in whom I can have confidence. There is no reason that you

should lose your confidence. Because with the …. of your fellowman there is every man

under the sun.

Q. Is there any concentration of practice?

A. The best practice is to forget and to forgive. Any wrong that anyone has done to

forget and to forgive. Yes, you do not need to follow that person, if you do not want to, that

person who has once disappointed you. But you can forget. In order to erase that impression

that has brought about in you that lack of confidence, you can erase it.

Q. How to erase that feeling of bitterness?

A. But you must see it in this way, that when a person is feverish, that every sweet, sour,

or salt thing, anything one tastes, it is tasteless, disagreeable. Therefore all those who

deserve your sympathy, friendship, they look like it, because you have that bitterness in you.

Therefore it is much better to try and forget that bitter feeling. Therefore suggest to yourself: I

no longer have any bitterness in my heart, I no longer blame anyone, and I no longer have

anything against anyone. I have forgotten, I have forgiven all that anyone has done to me,

except good things.

A person who expects disappointment will get it from the best person in the world. A person

who says: everybody is unjust to me, let him go to the throne of God, from there he will come

with the same blame. He sees nothing but injustice. When one begins to see wrong,

everything is wrong. To the one who sees in the right light everything is right.

Q. I feel I have not enough enthusiasm.

A. I find that you have too much enthusiasm. It is that energy that does not want you to

keep to anything, but to go on to different things. It is a greater amount of enthusiasm than

you ought to have. It is not every experience, but it is our patience with that experience which

brings us the benefit of that experience. That we can experience the outcome of what we

experience. If you will go from one thing to another, whether in your interest, no doubt you

will think that you are interested, but that interest is no interest. Your interest has never

developed. The development of the interest is to be profoundly interested in something. If

three days you play violin, and four days piano, and then say I have lost interest in music:



How long did you play? In order to play one instrument it requires life-long time to perfect. If

you have perfected it, what it becomes? It begins to give you God’s Message. It no longer is

an instrument, it is a messenger, it begins to speak to your ears God’s Message. Would you

remember, I know of a singer who sang one song, and that in India they can do with that

patience. One song for about thirty years. And when he sang it was a miracle; it was not a

song, it was a miracle. He would make the whole atmosphere spellbound as soon as the

voice reached the ears; people would go into ecstasy. And it is in everything in life, be it

business, be it profession, be it friendship, be it relationship. If your interest is profound and

deep, dependable and reliable and strong, that interest can create such an interest, that

interest of the Banks cannot be compared. Therefore the best thing is not to recognize

interest in the beginning. You must think that it is only an acquaintance with the thing, and

always think that how much you are interested in a thing, it is too little, you can be more

interested. If you can play the violin, never think that you have played it sufficiently long. No,

you could have done it even more. Interest must be continued, must be kept alive. Interest

must be cherished, watered, and given life and light. It must be guarded carefully what

interest you have. It is that which will flourish one day and bring fruits which are beyond

words.



21.08.25 Concentration

Friday

Concentration is to be made in three ways.

One way is to contemplate upon a certain image that is before you, which means to let your

mind reflect the object before you.

The second way is to group together atoms from your own thought in order to make a certain

image for your concentration.

And the third way is to imagine and form by your imagination automatically an object of

concentration.

The first form of concentration is better for those who have no concentration at all in their

nature, to sit before a picture, or an object, or an image, and to concentrate upon it.

Therefore Hindus give ideas of some God or goddess to concentrate upon.

And the next is for those who would scientifically wish to see the creative power of mind.

And the third is for those who have artistic trend of mind, who have imagination.

And all these three concentrations can be of a great importance when they are given to a

person by the teacher, considering his life’s particular need.

After this Murshid asked us to tell in turn what the two pictures in the Oriental Room,

representing the goddesses Saraswati and Lakshmi suggested to us. Then Murshid himself

said:

The goddess Saraswati represents wisdom, music, poetry, devotion, and beauty of nature.

But her life is that she is sitting on the rock, although peacock, who signifies beauty, is

standing at her feet, which means what she makes is beautiful. But what is her life, sitting on

the rock? Rosary is in her hand, that denotes concentration, thought of God. And there are

pages in her hand, that shows inclination to write, to read, to study and to learn. And that

gentle stream running on the side denotes patience, perseverance. And those who take

liking to that character have an inner inclination to it, you cannot help it. One cannot help

being attracted to something which appeals to something in your own soul.

The other, Lakshmi, is the goddess of good luck. There is comfort, there is wealth, there is

grandeur, there is abundance. The lotus upon which she stands relates all the comfort and

luxury beauty at her feet. The smooth water on which she stands denotes that not only the

earth, but even water, not only on the earth, but also on the water she reigns. And the

elephant that brings the garland of flowers denotes the grandeur. And the little swan and



water lilies around her show beauty at her side. Her open hands show love and response

and appreciation, and the two lotuses in her hand show beauty and abundance.



26.08.25 The path of esotericism

Wednesday

The word Talib, which is a Sufi word, and is recognized in the Sufi Order as a grade, denotes

respondence; and respondence means focused. The disciple who is focused, in other words,

whose heart is focused to the heart of the teacher, learns what words cannot teach. And the

great Sufis in the past, who have attained to things that one lifetime would be too short to

attain, they have attained by being a Talib, which means (being) respondent. When the pool

of water is troubled you do not see the image in it. When the heart of the pupil is wavering

you do not see the reflection also. Because the heart is likened to the pool of water, its

steadiness, stillness is the sign of faith, its troubled condition the lack of it.

No doubt, one must be sure of the value of what one expects in order to be fully respondent

to it. But something the value of which cannot be known before it is attained, is difficult to

value beforehand. And therefore it always happens that it is a capability in a disciple that

enables him to be fully respondent. A teacher may have a large number of pupils, each

having his own nature, character, disposition. But if there is in a pupil that quality to respond

fully, then the teacher becomes responsible for the progress of his pupil. The pupil is no

longer responsible for his progress. But when one expects the teacher to be responsible and

one holds to some extent one’s own responsibility, then neither the teacher is responsible,

nor oneself is responsible. The teacher cannot be responsible, because the pupil is

responsible, and the pupil cannot be responsible, because this is the responsibility for the

teacher to guide him on the right path. And therefore, instead of a positive or negative

process it becomes what we call Kemal, which means it is not going further, nor going

backwards. The pupil stands still.

Now one might ask, how in what manner can one develop that faculty to be respondent? It is

by three things, by confidence in the teacher, by sympathy for the teacher, and by

concentration on the teacher, which is called in Sufi terms Tassawuri Murshid. The first thing

is the confidence.

When we come to what we call sympathy, it is natural that there is no friend in the world,

there is no friendship in the world as great as the link in the path of truth. Because friendship

means understanding. What understanding could be better than the understanding of God, of

life, and the hereafter, and of the soul? It is the deepest understanding there is. When that

understanding is established, then there is no other friendship which can be greater and



more durable than the friendship in the path of God. And proof of this friendship is that the

Talib naturally senses the light and shade, or the pleasure and displeasure of his Murshid.

He knows when it comes to converse with people what Murshid would have said in that

particular case, what Murshid could have done in that particular case. It is natural for him. It

is not that he makes an effort for it. In every situation he is put in, that is the first thing that

comes to him. That is the proof of something. This is such a great phenomena. If I were to

tell you there are souls who give answer and who do things exactly what Murshid would have

done under a particular situation.

And concentration depends upon the first two things. Where there is confidence, sympathy,

naturally there is concentration; you cannot help but have a complete and clear

concentration. Lack of concentration means lack of sympathy. Lack of sympathy means lack

of confidence. No doubt, a person’s mind may be occupied with twenty thousand things of

the world, and one may not be able to concentrate one’s mind. It is by the power of sympathy

and confidence that one can make one’s mind still, if Talib has the desire of allowing the

reflection that falls from his teacher.

Q. All I do turns in my mind to selfish action. I want to be unselfish.

A. Anything and everything can be selfish and unselfish. It is how we mean it, and how

we take it. If a thing seems to be selfish, often it means that we look at it in that light. Very

often a person trying to do unselfish things, loses the track, and does not know what is

unselfish. Everything seems to be selfish. That shows that the whole creation is made on the

ego. Ego is the foundation; and the nature of ego is selfishness. There is a quotation of a

great philosopher and poet who says that, “It is by selfishness that I have learned how to do

good and bad both.” Those who have risen to higher planes of consciousness, their first

effort was a selfish effort. Therefore every effort is a selfish effort, only what we gain by it. But

then there comes no doubt a discrimination as we are always doing a greater and greater

and better and better ….. between two things; one seems to be more selfish than the other.

Therefore one calls the thing which seems to be more selfish ‘selfish’ and that which is less

selfish one calls it ‘unselfish’. It is only a comparison that gives two names. No doubt, as has

been said: every unselfish action has its reward. Really every unselfish action has its greater

reward. Only it is the same thing, when you compare it with selfish action, then it becomes

unselfish action. If you throw a light upon an unselfish action, then that same action becomes

a selfish action.





Summerschool 1925 Zikar

The words of Zikar are “La ella ha el Allah hu”.

The most essential part is “El”, the central word, which has an action, an influence upon the

solar plexus, when rightly done. If wrongly done, for years one can practice without any

result. If rightly done, one must profit in six weeks. Its motion strikes upon the nervous

center, which then is put to action. If not, this center is still, is not active. The intuitive

faculties and high aspirations are closed. If it is stricken joy arises, joy that is not dependent

on outer things. It is opened by the striking of “El” upon it. Among hundred person one says it

correctly. It must come from the heart. One can put ones hand there and feel the action.

Every day for five minutes, one must say that one word. When the center is wakened,

inspiration comes and healing becomes easy. Tuning a person’s life becomes easy. A

person angry, vexed, disorderly, in bad temper, one can tune by practicing this. Think of that

person, practice then and the person becomes tuned. We can ask, why? The answer is, we

are separated on the physical plane, on the inner plane we are connected like a telephone

central. This is the central, from there every message goes. If you want a connection with a

person, this is the connection. Anyone out of rhythm will be put in order. Often one hears

man say: everybody is against me, is upset with me, and there is every reason to believe it.

The person is upset himself. The whole being is to become in tune. When one says, “La ella

ha” it prepares the breath to “EL”. The breath becomes so vital, that it strikes the nervous

part like a sword, that must be moved first, then it strikes. The moving of the head makes it

more like the moving of the sword.

Another word is “Hu.” This exercise must be done by taking or producing from the depth of

the being, that will be released of all gases, and that part, the center, becomes clearer. Do it

for three minutes. It releases the solar plexus from undesirable gases; intuitive faculties

become clear; it takes away confusion, congestion and depression.

There are two things to be remembered: 1) The nerves of the solar plexus are very fine; if

they become ….the intuitive faculty is lost. 2) The gases produce congestion, and depression

comes. These things are always found together. It is because the principle center is not

active.

Now one can say, is it a material question. No, in this physical center the highest spirit

functions. It is a seat. Sufis call it the throne of God. The heart of flesh is only a reflector of

the solar plexus. This, the solar plexus, is the real heart. Artists intuitively have drawn the

heart of Christ in the center. Some sages in the East who communicate with their heart,



sitting bowed, in touch with the solar plexus, by establishing a connection by the breath and

the solar plexus, breath communicates. It helps the spiritual constitution, it is a joy, more than

pleasure, without reason it is a joy above all pleasures. It makes one fleet, rise above worries

and anxieties, that are seen under our feet. We are above them all. This causes different

ways of expression, sometimes the nerves are tender, then it expresses with tears;

sometimes it expresses with a happy smile; sometimes the forehead is shining. One sees it

in the glance. Besides that the optimistic thought comes against everything. If everything

goes wrong, if I do not conquer now, I shall conquer tomorrow, I shall surmount it; hope and

courage comes.

3) We see the confusion clearing, the path more clear. There comes a decision without

changing. I firmly, knowingly decide, never change. Intuition develops. If one is a writer one

gets inspiration.

There is a story of a master of Zikar. The master came to Hyderabad and got a fancy for

seeing the Nizam. It was perhaps to give an instruction, it was the desire of the dervish.

Nobody took notice of this desire. When he expressed his wish they said, it is impossible. He

answered something else will be possible. The Nizam began to feel that he was looking for

someone. He did not know whom, but he began to look for him. There was a sort of

restlessness. In the end, he went to the same sage and said: You are the person I was

looking for. The master of Zikar answered: So, this was possible. For a master of Zikar all is

possible. It is difficult and yet not difficult. One must have perseverance and patience, then

nothing is difficult.



Summerschool 1925 External Zikar

(Written down by memory afterwards; not Murshid’s words.)

External Zikar 1

(only for very balanced persons). Standing, (for those with bad concentration) or sitting in a

chair, or sitting on the floor.

For a man:

A person must visualize his own image before him in the way he is sitting or standing at the

moment. He must point out with his right hand on that image a horizontal line from left to

right, repeating, “This is not my body;” then drawing a perpendicular line, beginning at the

top, repeating, “but the temple of God.”

This is generally done a hundred times.

External Zikar 2

Standing, (for those with bad concentration) or sitting in a chair, or sitting on the floor.

For a woman:

The same as External Zikar 1, only drawing the lines with the eyes, not with the hand. One

must think that the two eyes form one balance, which like a brush or a pencil draws the line;

at the same time move the head very slightly and gently, repeating mentally the same

thought, “This is not my body, but the temple of God.”

Only give this exercise to intellectual and balanced people, and to those whom (we) can trust

will not speak about what they see. Because by this a second sight can be developed. One

need not be afraid of seeing one’s own double. It is the soul having become like a mirror in

which the personality is reflected.

Concentration

Take the figure 4 in mind for a few minutes, then omit the left line, so that a cross remains;

then after a same length of time omit the horizontal line; after this the perpendicular one, so

that nothing but a blankness remains.

- Try to catch the thought (for instance in the form of a precious stone or a figure) of

another person by inhaling when the one who sends the thought exhales, and by

exhaling when the other person inhales.

- Take a round of piece of paper of about 3 cm diagram. Pin it on a wall in front of one.

Take a light color of paper on a darker background. Look at it with a steady (not staring)



glance, eyes held closed. Every time cut the piece of paper a little smaller, until it has the

size of a piece of confetti. Look at it no longer than 5 minutes. The result to be obtained is

to create a mist (ether) around the object which will make everything, even oneself

disappear from one’s sight, except the object. Do this exercise for 40 days; put the piece

of paper so low that the eyes look in the direction past the point of the nose. Never longer

than five minutes.

- Same exercise during 40 days with the piece of paper so that the eyes look in the

direction past the bridge of the nose. (For five minutes).

- Same exercise during 40 days, with the piece of paper so that the eyes look in the

direction past the center of the eyebrows. (For five minutes.)

- Same exercise 3-ways during 40 days with closed eyes.

- Same exercise 3-ways 40 days only for a moment actually looking at the point of the

nose, the bridge of the nose and the center of the eyebrows.

- All these exercises are given in order to make the glance steady, and to develop a

penetrating, healing influence. To teach not only in words, but that the glance may help in

teaching.

- Every day concentrate for five minutes upon, “I am blameless,” which will act as a

refreshing bath for the conscience, because this is reality as the soul in its essence is

pure, without any blame. Also the concentration with the thought, “I am happy.” Not think

of words, only keep the idea in mind. Even do this exercise when there is no conscious

feeling of blame, because often subconsciously the mind is burdened with blame.

- In order to prevent the automatical concentration every day take an object or a thought in

mind for five minutes so that the mind will not get a state of congestion, but will remain

flowing. When taking a thought in mind, first touch with the right hand the center of the

eyebrows. When concentration is well established stretch arm in front of one, keep hand

in same position and on same level as long as the thought is held. As soon as thoughts

begin to wander wave them off by waving arm and hand. Then re-establish thought again

with hand first to center of eyebrows, then arm outstretched.

- When taking the purification breaths in the morning, if possible stand in the sunshine, and

think of inhaling divine life and divine light.

- Anything (especially things pertaining to the world) one wishes to accomplish,

contemplate upon them while looking at the morning sun. Never plan a worldly affair

while looking at a sunset; the only profitable thought at those moments are of breaking

into God. Also it is profitable to look at the crescent moon while making plans.

- There are two times at night which are specially favorable for contemplating upon

spiritual matters. Towards twelve o'clock and towards three o’clock. It is good to sit while

concentrating at such an hour, better still to stand. The nerves are connected with the



mind. Therefore by keeping one’s body under control by a certain position, one, at the

same time trains the mind to be kept under control. That is why it is better to say the

prayers standing.



02.09.25 Practices

Wednesday

I want to say about the practices.

That practice could be done mechanically, or they could be done whole-heartedly. And the

difference is much greater. I am saying it by my own experience of practices, having done

them mechanically and having done them whole-heartedly myself. When they have been

done mechanically, they perhaps take 6 months or a year to produce a little effect. It

produces the effect just the same, but that effect which is produced in twelve months

mechanically practices, is produced in twelve days practices whole whole-heartedly. Often

people come to tell me, who have no idea, that, “Is it not mechanical?” But they do not know

that they make it mechanical. It is not mechanical, but they make it.

And not to tell you what do I mean by doing practices whole-heartedly. Not to allow other

thoughts to enter the time when one is doing one’s practices, however much interesting the

thought may be and how much your life be concerned with that thought, however interesting,

it must be kept away. Then there are certain reactions that one feels from practices, one

must not be surprised at that. For instance a sensitiveness physical, mental, morally felt. For

no one can attain spirituality without sensitiveness. To be sensitive is to be respondent to

influences within and without. The lack of sensitiveness makes a person like a stone. It is not

sensitive, and so it is not respondent to influences coming from within and without. Very often

those to whom practices are new wish to imagine that it has a certain reaction upon them.

May be that the reaction is caused by something else. But that is a different thing. The only

reaction of practices is sensitiveness, if it ever comes. And if this reaction has not shown

upon the person, that shows that the person is doing the practices mechanically, and not

whole-heartedly.

The standard of normal health, according to mystical point of view is quite different from the

standard known by the physicians. Physicians consider normal health where there is no

sensitiveness. The moment sensitiveness begins, according to the physicians it is not

normal. The mystic makes a difference between man and a person by their sensitiveness.

Man is the person who is normal according to the physicians. A person is a being who is

normal according to the mystic. When you say here is a personality, that means: here is

someone who is sensitive. And if that is not wakened in that person he is not sensitive.

Spiritual path apart, even such work as the work of a teacher in the school, professor, work

of lawyer, work of a physician, work of a statesman, without the touch of that sensitiveness,



considered by a mystic a sign of spiritual awakening, that person is not fit for his work. He

may be qualified by his degree, and honors, but he is not yet a person. If that roughness, that

stiffness, that lack of sympathy is not broken, and if a new life is not created from the depth

of his being, he is not a person, even to be a worldly man, a lawyer, a physician or a

statesman. Only it must be remembered that too much of every good thing must be avoided.

Passion of will will break the concentration. It must have a certain amount of will. Very often a

person with intense will power, “I will keep that thought”, he will break that thought. I have

very often seen people with intense will on their concentration, and always failing, because

they break their concentration by their intensity of will. There is nothing like taking all as a

play, even meditation or a concentration. Play it, without being too serious about it. For

instance, “I imagine that I shall think of a large pearl. A pearl which cannot be found in a

shop. And I am amusing myself by looking at that pearl. I do not exhaust my forces, I am

playing. I look at that pearl. I am enjoying looking at it. It is a pleasure to me”. Another person

takes that pearl before him, Where shall I get it? I want it so much, I would like to have it.” He

is breaking that pearl, it is too much.

Q. Five hundred times Wazifa, each time to concentrate upon the thought?

A. As long as you do not give too much pressure of will. For instance, you are thinking

Wazifa “Fazal”. And you are saying Fazal, then you are saying inward benediction. It is not a

normal condition if a person does a practice and becomes tired. One must make the practice

so light. It is just like singing, the person who sings and gets tired, he is not doing it rightly. It

must only uplift a person, not get tired. One must take the simile of the moving picture. In

order to make one scene they have thousand pictures. The rapid following of the pictures

makes one. In order to make the picture correct it must be rapid, exactly the same with the

practices. First of all we must get accustomed to the meaning of the word. One must

concentrate in the day on the meaning of that word. One must have that benediction means

all that is good and beautiful, all that gives pleasure and happiness, all that gives joy and

peace, all that is prosperous and flourishing, all that is outcome of blessing. All foes,

strangers, al conditions I pass through, I receive from all blessing in the form of happiness,

joy, peace. Each day five minutes form this idea. The mind will then be impressed as the

essence of the whole idea and name it Fazal. And when you are doing the practice Fazal, at

that time you must not think pleasure, happiness, peace, receive from friends and foes, but

as a sum total of all things. It means blessing, blessing, blessing. That must be a kind of

essence of the meaning.

There are Jelal wazifas, for instance Ya Wahabo: spreading; and Jemal wazifas, for instance

Fazal: receiving.



One must always refrain from giving powerful wazifas, because a person who does not know

would handle it carelessly. The person need not know whether it is receiving or spreading,

the teacher must know. Ya Wahabo it is powerful, but harmless. It breaks the standstill

condition. If a person’s inspiration is stopped up, if there is a congestion in the body it would

help, if outward conditions have stopped this way. For instance, he is in an office, where he

deserves to be prosperous, but the head of the office is against him, he always keeps him

back. If that person will say Ya Wahabo, naturally his progress will come. The head of the

office will have to give him, he will be obliged, he will be compelled to give him.

Ya Fazil: spiritual inspiration. This gives all powers, especially the illuminating powers upon

the inspirational faculties, intuitive faculties.

In the Zikar the sound “Hu” makes the breath go through all the canals and gives an outlet to

the pranas which are caught in different glands. Each time it makes them free; and it enables

the mechanism to take the air more freely and fully than it does in breathing. It makes a

capacity.

Q. Why in the Zikar first the negative and then the positive?

A. To deny in order to make place to establish an idea. Denying is the clearing or

erasing from the mind. The next process is establishing.

Q. What does one deny in doing Zikar?

A. Of course it has many stages; at every stage Zikar changes its meaning, but the

central theme remains the same. As one begins with Zikar, what one first denies is self. But

which self? It is the false self, in order to establish the real self. And therefore the first thought

that is given to a mureed, when he is given a Zikar practice is to think the denying, that “this

is not my body”, or “this is not myself”; that is the idea. And then the affirmation is, “this is the

temple of God”. That is the beginning.

Q. Is meant by, “this is not my body”, this is not my real self? Or, this is not my body, my

property?

A. In the first place to disown the physical body, of course in the long run. The first

impression that one has to get is the last thing we own. Self bankrupt, self-disgrace, honor,

discharge or rank position. Therefore the only thing one possesses and one can rely upon, to

think, “at least I have this much”. But if one says, “even this is not myself”. That is the real

poverty. People take vow of poverty, but this is the realization of poverty. Then one need not

take the vow of poverty. After this realization if one lives in the palace, owned millions, it does

not matter, when once this is denied, then in what position one lives that makes no

difference. That shows that Salomon with his throne and crown was a prophet.



Q. Which is the best time for Kasab?

A. Morning before breakfast.

Q. What time is better for Fikar?

A. Evening

Q. What is the reason of it?

A. The night is the time for concentration, of going in oneself.

Q. Does it not depend upon the word of Fikar?

A. Yes, but for every concentration night is good time. And for breathing morning is the

best time.



09.09.25 Memory

Wednesday

Memory is a sign of spirituality, and to keep memory in good order is maintaining spirituality.

Because memory is the most delicate of all different faculties of mind, and good memory is

the proof of mind working in good order. Concentration helps memory, therefore memory is

the proof of good concentration. There are other faculties of mind, also thinking, pondering

upon a certain idea, reasoning, feeling, besides memory. Very often one finds lack of

balance in the spiritually inclined people, and that lack of balance comes from mind not being

in good order. To give a good proof to the world of spiritual development one must be extra

careful that the mind works regularly and in order. A spiritual teacher is not only the guide of

the soul, but a physician of mind, and in order to find out the illness in the mind of another he

must have his mind in perfect condition. If mind is treated with proper attention by practicing

it and by giving it a repose that is necessary for it, mind can be cured sooner than the body.

The body depends for its cure on physical conditions, mind depends for its cure on itself. The

healer of mind is mind itself. However strong the physical body is, however advanced a soul

may be, if mind is not in order, there is no balance. The difficulty is that because mind can

cure itself, nothing else can cure it. Therefore mind remains uncured, for always a person

seeks for cure outside things, and the mind has its cure in itself. They say in the East

Luqman did not find remedy of one disease, and that was the disease of mind. It is very easy

to get mind in a disorder and it is most difficult to get mind back in order. Before one can

think of it, it slips. For spiritual person it is of the greatest importance to stand firm against the

criticism of the material people who are so sure of their cleverness, their practicality, what

they call: common sense. The spiritual person can beat them on their own ground, if his mind

is in a proper balance. If not, the material person gets an upper hand on a spiritual

personality, which is kind and gentle and tolerant, and forgiving, enduring and patient, if he

finds the least little opportunity of handling him.

Q. Is it only concentration which strengthens the memory?

A. Yes, concentration and a good long sleep. You see, very good people know what a

blessing sleep is. It gives an equal amount of strength to the mind as meditation gives. But

because they know the virtue of meditation they think meditation can give memory and sleep

does nothing.

Q. What number of hours of sleep is good?



A. It depends upon the person. But at the same time for a person who has responsibility

in life eight hours sleep at night and from half an hour to one and a half hour rest in the day

after lunch is most desirable. Therefore the Prophet advised to his pupils in Arabic: that nap

was a good meditation. Rumi has written so much about sleep in the Masnavi. It is very

interesting to read.

Q. Can anything else be taken for memory?

A. For taking, almonds are very good to rub them on the rough stone and to get a paste

out of the almond by rubbing, then the smallest molecules of the nut are broken, therefore

the paste of almonds. It must be grounded on rough stone. Then to mix it with milk, and to

drink it. Also on the scull if a little almond or olive oil is put and rubbed. It is good for the eyes

also. The heat of the eyes is cured. Because the whole brain feeds on the oil. Two or three

times a week, or even every day. Then not to give brain too much trouble. No more than is

needed. Then one can easily do by putting things on a notebook, that one may not have to

keep all things in one’s head. By keeping away worries and anxieties, that all helps.

Q. Can one manage to send away a thought which continually comes back?

A. To talk to the thought as you talk to a person. Say, go away, keep away. Because

thought is a person. And if you allow a thought to come very often, it can turn into a person.

Therefore always an undesirable thought must be told to go away. Everything has its time. Of

course, meditative people the condition of the mind is different. That is a different mind, it is

attached to divine mind. There are souls who are very moment of the day in meditation.

There is not one moment that they are without it. It is better to keep every disagreeable thing

far away. If it is a pleasant thought it does not matter if it comes for a moment.

Q. I thought it is weakness of mind.

A. In mind no thought must be allowed than except what we will. When we will a thought

to be there, then alone it must be there.

Q. Then the cure of the mind is the will?

A. Yes, the will is there just the same; it is the energy of mind.

Q. When the mind cures the mind, where does the spirit come in, for instance in healing?

A. Spirit is healing itself. Spirit need not be directed to heal. Mind cures mind, because

mind can analyze itself. And by analyzing itself it can cure itself. Mind can prescribe for itself

what it needs.

Q. Is mind only the vehicle?

A. In order to cure mind spirit has to work through mind. Mind without spirit is no mind.

Therefore if it is said mind, it means mind with spirit.

Now I would like to say (something) about the different times for practices. Breathing must be

done in the morning, concentration in the evening, and repetition of phrases or of words may

be done during the day. This is as a general rule of practices.



The good will on the part of those who think that they must help some workers in charge of

groups in different places must have a detailed explanation of any practices, given by

Murshid. If not, to give a practice at least to interpret it fully to the other person. In my own

experience of every day life very often I wish that people taking my Message to another

person may take down my words only in their note book; if not I am very often disappointed.

The work of the Movement being in its infancy, it is of very great importance that there is a

document of different practices written, which is explanatory, and which is a great help to

those in charge of explaining practices to mureeds. Under present circumstances we cannot

do other than preparing such paper most carefully, revising it perhaps many times, and to

give it in the hand of those in charge of interpreting practices, given by Murshid.

And now I shall explain to you the opposite opinion.

Everything that is valuable is subtle and its value is in its subtlety. Besides, a practice is like a

prescription, and a doctor will not give the same prescription to every person, even if they

had the same complaint. And the doctor who does it, he is always a failure, he will be doing

the most cruel thing, by giving the same prescription to every patient which comes with the

same complaint. Although it is done like this. There are medicines made and made patent,

but it is no doubt a degeneration of the inspiration of a physician. A spiritual thing is most

fine, most subtle. Even a practice, by putting it in words, in too many words, and in set rules,

it loses something about it. It loses its spirit. Now, for instance, a simple practice, as simple

as the twenty breaths of purification, every mureed is given this practice, and if you will call to

mureeds to come and read the same explanation, which is written on the paper, each will

say, “I have been taught differently”. One will say, “I have been taught by Murshid to do the

breaths with a certain word”. Another person will say, “I have been taught by Murshid that it

must be taken a little deeper than the usual breath”. The third person will say, “I was taught

by Murshid I must take it naturally”. A fourth person will say, “between inhaling and exhaling

a slight repose”. A fifth person will say, “with window closed”. A sixth person, “the doors must

be open”. One explanation of an ordinary practice like this, can make a difference in ten

persons, and each one of them expressing their own idea about it.

Besides that, Wazifa I have given. Now in that Wazifa it is not only because it is given for a

certain purpose, but there is an inspiration which is instant, by an instant inspiration Murshid

gives a person that Wazifa. It is not because the mureeds condition is so, but the condition of

the mureeds condition is such; it is an answer of Murshid to the condition of the mureed. If it

is given like a pill, if a person is very much worried, this pill must be given. It makes a thing

which is subtle, fine, high, ideal, it brings it down to a material level. Therefore we must be



able to see the disadvantage of it. At the same time that we must have it. We must not

overlook that there are our workers sent out at big distance, without a document, in which

Murshids practices are written. This idea must not be forgotten. At the same time this idea

must not be overlooked, that a step in the direction of putting fine ideas in gross words, it is

really a great disadvantage in bringing down something which is high.

Just now it is most necessary. The paper must be given to some few, those who are in

charge of interpreting. It must not be circulated generally. We shall see to it.

(added in the handwriting of Murshida Shahzadi:)

Q. May we have ……………

A. Pir-o-Murshid cannot explain in all details that a mureeds mind can find. Sometimes

the mind of a mureed can think of some certain thing which Murshid has never thought

about. An explanation which is received by Murshid once, twice, three times. If a person

were not taught a language and if he was only spiritually advanced, he would not be able to

……….. spiritual knowledge in language. This is a language. When this language is learnt,

then they give explanation better. Just now it is most necessary. The papers must be given

to some few, those who are in charge of interpreting, not to be circulated generously. And we

shall see to it.

Now I would like to say about the different times for practices: breathing must be done in the

morning, concentration in the evening, and repetition of phrases or of words may be done

during the day. This is a general rule of practices.



29.10.25 Suggestion, power of the sacred scriptures

Q. ?

A. One can make a mistake in suggesting oneself, and in suggesting others by saying, “I

am not ill,” or by saying, “You are not ill.” Because by saying ‘ill’ it will produce illness. ‘I am

not’ will be too feeble before the word ‘ill.’ But if he said, “I am well.” Then it is alright. One

must not use the word ‘ill.’

If you say to a person, “Your pain is gone, your pain is gone,” or if a person says, “My pain is

gone, my pain is gone,” then “my is gone” these words are too weak compared to ‘pain.”

Because the pain is present there. These three words will have no effect. What will have

effect is the word “pain.” But when you say, “I feel comfortable, I feel comfortable,” or, “You

feel comfortable, you feel comfortable,” that is alright. Therefore suggestion must not be

without the psychology of words. For instance, someone had taken to a habit of saying about

his sisters and brothers, "Make them happy and well, make them happy and well.” When he

rapidly said it, it became: happy-unwell. As soon as I heard t I thought it must be changed; I

had to take away the “and” and say, “happy, well.”

Q. ?

A. All those books we regard as sacred books, as sacred scriptures, or books of

religious or moral principles, such books every child or every person makes it a habit in the

morning as a sacred thing some of that book must be read. Even if it is for five minutes, from

that book a passage which is perhaps more connected with the condition of life or affair in life

of that time, he must read it every day. By doing so a science has come out of it, and today

there are men in the East who can take up some passages of the scripture, and by reading it,

or by repeating it they can perform wonders.

For instance, I have known a man who used to promise you that in forty days’ time he can

accomplish anything for you. People used to come to him with different desires; one said: for

ten years my pay has been the same in the office; another says: I cannot make a profit in my

business; another one says: I have a case in the court; another one says: I have some

difficulty. And I have seen this man, he would say, “Yes, have you patience to wait for six

weeks?” He said yes. And that person waited for six weeks. And for six weeks this man did

not do anything else, and saw nobody. Six weeks he was drowned in this particular

accomplishment. With this praying from the scripture. He would take one passage from the



scripture, and repeat it and repeat it, and in six weeks time it was done. He would repeat it

perhaps ten thousand times a day.

Another man I have seen. He used to see, to see with his glasses. He used to have the

scripture before him. People used to go, hundreds from morning to evening, to this man. He

would not look at them, he would be reading. And when a person says, “I have this difficulty,”

he still is reading, he is not listening to him. But where there comes a connection in the

scripture in answer to his difficulty, then he makes a sign, then that person must come (go).

There are two men standing there, if he will not go, then they push him out, for everyone

comes with a big talk. But till then, until he comes to that point in the scripture, it is allowed,

people can say to him what they want to say. Maybe he does not come to that point for half

an hour, till then that person is sitting there, or continuing to speak. Then there comes a point

that he has finished, then that person goes.

Q. How to make children obey?

A. The best way of working with the grown up people is exactly the same as working

with the children. Because they all have been children once, and they all have something of

their childhood. Only you can work with the child more easily than with the grown up, you

must appeal not only to their feeling, but you must touch the vanity of their ego, and then it is

all right. When you say, “You, a wise boy, a nice boy, a princely boy like you, how you must

behave.” But that is the way to touch them, then they are touched.

Q. But there are moments they will not obey.

A. The childhood is the kingliness. When they will go out of that age, they will remember

that there was a time when they were kings. We must not deprive them of that kingliness. Of

course extreme naughtiness must be checked….. that time will never come again. It is the

only time of joy they go through.

Q. When does that kingly time go?

A. About twelve, thirteen, that time has ended. From seven years to twelve years is

wonderful time. After that twelve years, then they are in another world. Then they begin to

recognize the difficulties of life. Even if they did not recognize, still that joy is lost, there is a

joy of innocence that is lost.

Q. ?

A. There are many people who are very kind to their children, and they spoil them.

Others are severe to their children, they spoil them also. What is necessary is a great insight

into the psychology of human nature. But the difficulty is this, that now if you want to use the



psychology of human nature, in the first place you must keep the children as horses in the

circus, that nobody takes them, that they are taught exclusively by the same people. When

they go among others, many people handle them, then they are spoiled.

I had here a child given to be taken good care of. So there was something very promising in

that child. I gave that child under the direction of a friend of mine, a musician. Under his

direction the child developed every good quality, really he showed a great fineness. And then

the mother perhaps was not pleased with the person under whose care he was given. Now

the child is ruined for ever. It is just before the war that I had taken up that child, and given it

to a person here.

Q. What was the first tone manifested?

A. But this is plain, that the word was not in the form of sound, because ears were not

made to distinguish it. That word was in quite a different form. That word was audible, but not

audible to the ears. It was audible to the first intelligence, to God. Therefore a word that can

be audible to the intelligence was that word which was the first word, the word which was

God. In order to form a conception of that word the Sufis try to hear what they call the voice

of the solitude, forest, and what they call in the East, “Night’s cry.” In the East there is a

belief that the night cries. There is a sound that is the cry of the night. That sound can be

heard in the wilderness. There is a sound. The Prophets and great Masters who went in the

wilderness, they heard that sound. And through that sound they were able to rise above the

human consciousness, and enter in a higher consciousness by the help of that sound.

Q. Which came first: perception of number or perception of form?

A. Breath is formless, but breath is number, and air is formless. But the waves of air you

can count. Of course the air is audible, but it is the number which makes it audible. It is the

motion; and motion means number. Vibration means number, not form. What was first? First

was the vibration; therefore vibration was number.



03.11.25 Stones

(reported by Sakina Furnée)

Sapphire Imagination, art. When it comes to love, it is helpful, but it is not (love) itself. It is helpful in

continuing the glow of the feeling, in that way. But in itself it is not a help for feeling. It is more

for imagination rather than for feeling. Of course (the) two things are quite connected with

one another. In that way it has some feeling also, but not as a main thing.

Q. Is it helpful for mind diseases?

A. No, on the contrary, unless for one purpose and that is the paralyzing of the brain.

Because it is the air element. It must quicken. But most people go out of their mind because

of the restlessness of mind, and this encourages restlessness. It is the sign of travelling also.

Q. Is it wrong to wear for a restless person?

A. It is not good, no.

Sapphire in three days’ time shows its result. If one wants to know if it is lucky or not, one

can wear it to observe events of every day. If it proves to be successful for three days then

one should keep it always. But if things go wrong then one must know that it is not. Then one

can do it again after three or six months; it can change. But if it brings a good luck then it is a

wonderful thing. Then always it will bring a good luck. For instance a person who goes to

races, a speculator, who is playing with money, that is the kind of person who must have it.

Remark: I used to wear sapphire, and it used to change. If it was to be a good day it was

bright.

A. I have seen a stone which changed so many times in the day its color, red or blue or

green or any color it would take up; every day it was different.

Q. Was it a lucky stone?

A. It was a lucky stone as far as for the person.

Q Is opal an unlucky stone?

A. Yes, it s true that opal is an unlucky stone – For this reason it is unlucky, because it

has many colors. Many colors means ether. Ether has all colors in it. Opal has many colors.

And ether paralyses action, that is why. But to wear it once in a while is not bad.



Q. And topaz?

A. Topaz is light and wisdom, prosperity, wealth, everything. Topaz is a safe stone to

wear.

Q. Those stones that have a color unusual, for instance, white sapphire and pink

diamonds, do they have……….

A. No, white sapphire is quite a different thing. Pink diamond also is a different thing. It

has a different quality. Pink diamond is a good thing.

Q. Diamond is a good stone?

A. Very good, quite safe.

Q. Emerald?

A. Emerald is a very beautiful stone for the artistic inspiration, for beauty, for splendor. It

is a harmless stone, that is a great thing. It is prosperity also.

Q. And pearl?

A. Pearl, it depends. You see, pearl is also a question, just like sapphire. If sapphire is

lucky for a person it is alright, if a pearl is lucky for a person it is alright. There may be a

person for whom it is not right; then he must not wear it. Diamond, emerald, topaz are quite

safe.

Q. Some persons turn turquoise green; is it chiefly a moral effect, or a physical effect?

A. It is moral effect, not physical effect. But there is no physical effect without a moral

effect behind it.

Q. Whenever a person wears a pearl it used to be eaten away. She tried it even in a

gypsy setting, gold between the stone and the finger. Is that moral effect?

A. Yes, that is moral effect. It is a sign of egoistic nature.

Q. What is the saying that pearls are tears?

A. yes, but tears are not always bad. I think that a heart which is not inclined to tears has

not yet been tuned to the human pitch. What is human is sensibility to feel. If that is not yet

wakened in man then that man is not yet a human being.

Q. But it means sorrow. You can cry by sympathy.



A. Sometimes, but the thing is, the pearls are beautiful, therefore beautiful tears are

those who come from sympathy, love, devotion, beauty. Pearls are not the tears of this earth,

but of the sympathetic. Nevertheless it is the best product of the water. The earth gives so

many things different, but water gives one thing, and that is pearl. The look at a beautiful

pearl it means a great joy.

Q. Amber gives and does not take?

A. Amber people wear for magnetism. It gives a great magnetism to a person who wears

it. It is a power. It is the safest thing one can wear. Dervishes wear it in the East. Amber is

healing.



10.11.25 Ecstasy – square - triangle

(Reported by Sakina Furnée)

Ecstasy to me is exaltation, which I put above what is called sensation. I do not mean to say

that in sensation exaltation is reflected. But exaltation stands independent of sensation.

When a person is feeling exaltation he is feeling also the same sensation; at the same time it

is not only a sensation, it is an exaltation together with it. As a pitch of sound is determined

by so many notes so the pitch of exaltation can be determined by the different grades to

which consciousness rises. Sufis are fond of experiencing all its grades, whereas Yogis

experience the highest grade only. He calls this highest grade Samadhi. The Sufi calls his

every experience on his way to the highest grade Wajat. And a word which explains this

more fully in Hindustani is Hal, which means condition. There is a saying that it is not what

one says, but it is what one is which counts. Hal means what one is. One is that of which one

is conscious. I have seen dervishes who experience the same in the ordinary sense of the

word, even by having flowers by their side and perfume. I have seen dervishes coming into a

condition of ecstasy on hearing a lyric sung by a singer. Because they have prepared their

spirit to rise to that height by the help of such an earthly thing as flower or scent. There is a

sect of Yogis which is very small in number, who have tried to get an impetus to be exalted

by the dense things of the earth. However, those who soar upwards, what they have

considered as best thing to rise in exaltation is to see the divine beloved in the form of

human nature, in its agreeable form and its disagreeable form, in all its various forms and

conditions; and in this way to elevate their soul. Hafiz has provided food for them, besides

many other Persian poets. Their poetry is not understood by many in the West for this reason

that they do not make any philosophical statements. Their art of poetry is a painting of

pictures. Hafiz was an artist of human nature, and in his poetry he has made different

pictures on human nature, coloring them all with divine light, divine color, that those who may

want to take it as a means of elevating their souls may find the best means to elevate, even

staying in the midst of the world. That this worldly turmoil and the falsehood of human nature,

and the ugly side of life in the world, that nothing may disturb that soul who wishes to soar

upwards. It is a kind of opposite method to that of the Yogi. The Yogi, in order to elevate

himself, leaves the world, goes to the forest; being by himself, he naturally soars upwards,

and reaches the highest ecstasy. The Sufi takes the contrary path; he stands in the midst of

the world, and sees all the ugliness and beautiful side of it, looks into human nature on its

surface, in its depth. And such great artists as Hafiz help him by giving before him pictures;

how beautiful pictures they have made of the very life of the world which frighten the Yogi

who ran away from it. No doubt, the highest ecstasy is in the communion with God, and that



ecstasy is completed when one has forgotten oneself to that degree that there remains

nothing of himself but God. And it is in that ecstasy that the purpose of life is fulfilled.

Square

Artificial, because man-made. Incomplete, because cut in square. Illusionary, because

conceived by man in the form of four sides. Rigid because unnatural. Just, because regular.

Strong, because four sides joined together. Useful, because accommodating. Numerous,

because divisible.

Triangle

Triangle denotes unity manifested into duality and duality again rising towards unity. Triangle

is not progressive, because corners close. Picture of trinity because this form relates the

mystery of the existence. Sacred, because it is by the triangle posture that the saints like

Buddha meditated and attained peace. Symbolical, because it suggests the picture of the

wave and of the mountain, the earth and water both trying to reach upwards. Earth in the

form of mountain, and water ………



12.11.25 The Message

Q. Is not the foundation of every spiritual movement led by majority of devotional types,

people as necessary as the stones in a building, while there are less wanted of intellectual

and social value?

A. The simile of devotional type and stone is not correct. For stone is far from devotion.

Heart is far from stone. Those whose heart is like a stone, they have no devotion. Social

value, it counts in the world of matter, but it does not go very far. It goes as far as it outwardly

appears. It has outward appearance and goes so far and no further. Each time, of all those

who have striven for the good of humanity, those who stand as pillars to hold the building

they have built, have not been the intellectual ones, because the intellectual one thinks of

what he knows, he goes no further than that. It is the heart quality of the devotional which

holds that building form in hand, and which makes the foundation. When we think of the

Prophet Mohammed, it is not the thousands of millions who were his followers, who did

anything. It is three, four, whose devotion was so great, that they kept their life in their palms,

ready to sacrifice when occasion came. It is such things which keep it. If Christ’s Message

lived, it is not by those who gave interpretation of the Bible. On the contrary. I found a very

intellectual clergyman in England, who is trying to correct humanity of the idea that Christ

was ever born. He had found another intellectual idea, an idea which no-one else has; by

that idea he wants his influence to come out. I was very surprised. The Theosophical Society

has contributed to the world’s history a new idea, and that idea is that it was not one Krishna,

but there have been two Krishnas. Perhaps another Society which wants to make its name

also, will say: I have found out there were three Krishnas. That is intellectuality. It goes so far

and no further. It is the power of faithfulness, the power of sincerity, which endures all

troubles and difficulties which the furtherance of the Movement requires.

Q. Can anyone lose his soul?

A. The saying ‘losing of the soul’ does not exist in the Eastern language. If it loses

anything it is what it possesses, but it is the self, it cannot lose the self. The soul is the very

being of man.

Q. It may have come that people first said: a lost soul. Out of that is made: he loses his

soul.

A. I think there is a great reason, it must have come from the idea: a lost soul. Man is

quite capable of adding to it: a person has lost his soul.



Q. Do we attract wrong or does wrong attract us?

A. It is mutual. Why do we feel inclination to eat or drink, because that element we have

in us; therefore our body depends upon that element to be sustained. And so it is right and

wrong. We attract something which we have in us, but at the same time we attract wrong,

because it feeds the wrong in us. We attract wrong also because it has a contrary action

upon the wrong which is in us. Therefore the wrong can purify us from wrong, and it can

satisfy wrong in us. Wrong completes wrong in us, and wrong destroys wrong in us. Right

has also the same both effects. It is a mutual attraction. We say: “misfortune, be my friend,”

and misfortune says, “I was waiting for you.”



12.11.25 Collective Interview

(Reported by Sakina Furnée – 379)

Q. How to tune the heart to the keynote of the soul?

A. The heart is always tuned to the keynote of the soul. Light in the room is to the

degree that the light is in the lantern. If anybody asked me, “what degree of light is in the

room? “ “In accordance to the light in the lantern. In accordance to the light in the soul the

heart is tuned. You need not tune the heart to the soul. It is always tuned to the soul. Light is

exactly the same degree as the power in the lantern."

There is a story which explains this idea better. There was a young man who was told that by

so much time he will pass from the earth. And only the way how he could continue his life

was if he would feed a whole town, which was impossible for the poor man. That period

passed, and the man was expecting that end to come, knowing that he cannot do anything

else. A little food he was eating the last day, the day which was the person had predicted.

And that day the remaining of the food he had, he threw behind a tree. And there were ants

moving in that place, and there were millions in number. And that time passed, the day of his

end, and he was still living. He was very surprised himself, and went to the astrologers, and

asked, “Has the time passed?” “From this point of view of an astrologer every star and planet

was opposed to your life, you are still living. There was only one condition; if you had fed the

whole town.” “The only thing I have done is the remaining of my dinner I have given to the

ants.” “So you have fed so many lives, or even more lives than people you have in your

country, and that is why your life is saved.” Now this comes by action. Even if it was not an

action of intention but an automatic action, it saved his life. So it is not only destiny, but

action also.

Q. Is the destination of man …

A. Destiny is not only an old made thing, but destiny as made every moment of the day.

It is not such a thing that there is one old design. The design is never finished. As Steiner

used to say, “The temple is never finished.” People were always working. He never said that

it was finished, it needed always to be finished. So it is with destiny. Destiny is never

finished. It is being made just like a building which is continually being made. That does not

mean that in the past it was not made. In the past it is made, and it is produced; it is going on

and on. No doubt, the design which is the most important then, is made. The foundation is

laid but the building which is to be built on it depends upon the …….and the means to make

it.



Q. What means Shariat, Tarikat, Narefat and Hakikat?

A. The study of Shariat is the study of law.

The study of Tarikat is the study of logic.

The study of Narefat is the study of metaphysics.

The study of Hakikat is the knowledge that is gained by the meditative experience.

Q. Zat and Sifat are the Known and the Knower. Allah and Mohammed is as the Siraj-

un-Munir total, could be said. Is Adam the same?

A. Duality is always appropriate. Adam and Eve, these two words have come from

Sanskrit originally; Purusha and Prakriti, Purusha means the original state of God: Prakriti

means His nature. There is a story in the Koran which explains this idea very nicely. The

Lord said, “Be”, and it became. So the word was the first, and the one who said that word

was the Lord Himself. Therefore that is the real Adam, and what became was Eve. And when

we take the Trinity, then the Word and the Lord Who said it, and after that Word What came,

that makes it Trinity; that God, His Word, and what came out of the word. The same: first was

the word, then came light. The word manifested visibly, and the One who spoke the word;

that makes it three.

Q. Is Friday the 13th a bad day to start something new? Or is it an unhappy day, or

specially good, or is it all unimportant?

A. There are 24 hours of the day and night, and there are 12 hours of the day, and you

cannot put a fourteenth hour in it. There are twelve hours and there is no 13th hour. And then

coming to notes in an octave; there are twelve notes from c to upper c, by the half tones, and

you cannot put a 13th semitone in order to make the octave. It will not be, it cannot be. That

shows that nature does not give you a scope in time to put the number 13. And therefore the

reason is a very vital reason. You cannot give a stronger reason than this, that either in the

sound or time you cannot put 13; there is no possibility. There is no accommodation in time

or space.

Q. Is it unlucky to be a 13th child of the family?

A. Yes.

Q. Was the war a will of majority or will of minority?

A. The will of minority. Majority is forced by minority. Minority is forced upon majority,

and has made majority believe that this is our will. So few minds, we cannot even imagine

how few! When we come to the still more psychological truth about it we shall see it comes

from one mind. We cannot trace that one mind. But the beginning is from one mind. That one



mind must first take up ………and the majority taking it up, and each one professing that he

is doing it for his own cause. If each one was naked, was he really ………

Minority we say for the sake of convenience. It begins with one mind. It is never possible that

two minds work together. Two minds will never think at the same time. One mind creates the

thought in the other mind.

Q. Will you explain the meaning of the different ways to wear the emblem of the same

winged heart?

A. When the dove flies downwards, it is flying downwards also for some reason. It

means that it is bringing something from above on a duty, and a work. Therefore the spread

wings of a dove, even if they suggest coming downwards, it means it comes downwards with

a message. And upwards, it soars upwards. In both cases it is towards the One.

Q. How can one develop intuition?

A. By being responsive to God, by believing in one’s intuition, by meditation you prepare

these faculties which otherwise are kept….

Q. What is a person’s rhythm?

A. There is a physical movement and there is a mental movement. Physical movement

depends upon the energy that is working and the muscular and nervous action and

circulation of the blood. And the rhythm of that physical motion depends….. And therefore

every person has a certain rate of movement. Every person moves according to a certain

rate of speed, and that depends upon his blood circulation and his ….and upon that his outer

rhythm depends. His inner rhythm depends upon the rate of speed by which his mind works.

If mind works quickly, the rhythm works quickly, if mind works slowly, the rhythm is slow.

Therefore the two different actions, the action of body and of mind have also influence upon

one another. The body may act upon mind, changing its rhythm according to its own, and the

mind may act upon the body, changing its rhythm according to its own rhythm. It all depends

upon the strength of mind and body. If the body acts strongly the body will keep the mind to

its own rhythm, and if the mind acts strongly it will keep the body to its own rhythm. These

two different rhythms, harmonizing with one another, form one rhythm. Then you can see in

each person, in his movements, works, actions, tendencies, each person has a certain

rhythm. If he is acting to his natural rhythm then he is in a sound condition of health and

mind. But if he is more active or more slow then it is a disorder, either in his health or in his

mind, and it will always prove to be ..

In order to keep, therefore, a proper rhythm in life the best thing is to keep hand on one’s

own pulse, that means always to feel one’s own rhythm. I remember Musharaff Khan’s



experience. One day a person was knocking at the door. It was raining. He was on the third

floor and he had to come to open the door. Because Musharaff Khan came very slowly, this

person was annoyed. He opened the door, and found this person in a great rage. At the

same time Musharaff Khan was able to keep his …….because he was able to keep his

rhythm. If he had jumped the staircase and opened the door he would have satisfied the

person, but would have lost his rhythm.

There is a story of a Prime Minister in Hyderabad. One day the Prime Minister was sitting at

the dinner table; official guests were invited. A corner of the palace was set on fire, and since

instructions were given always to approach the Prime Minister gently, and as they knew his

disposition, a person gently came and gave the news in the ears of the Prime Minister, and

said, “There is a fire on the corner of the palace.” Imagine, there was the family, and valuable

things in the palace, built with a lot of expense. He did not even answer. He said, “” Yes”, and

continued dinner. And when the course was finished, then he excused himself to the ones

who were sitting around him, and then he walked very gently out of the dining room, and

when he saw the fire, then he gave orders to attend to it. In a moment he gave order to

attend to it, and then he came back, and attended the dinner party. No one in the dinner

party knew that there was a fire going on. They only read next day in the papers that there

had been a fire. That is called rhythm. Another person would have jumped in the fire.

There is another little story which gives you the contrary example. That there was a man

walking on the toils (tiles) of the roof, and he received a telegram while walking on the roof,

that he had won the Derby race, so many millions won. He jumped down. That is losing the

rhythm.

Q. What to do if the rhythm of the mind is not in accordance to the rhythm of the body?

A. Whether the body is strong or the mind is strong. Body depends upon mind and mind

upon body. It is one and the same.

Q. How to be least blamed by the world?

A. That is a problem that has very much occupied mystics, mystics whose religion has

been to please everyone. That in the pleasure of everyone they sought the pleasure of God.

And therefore they have felt the blame of those whom they would like to please so sorely that

no one in the world who walks in the path of life regardless of this could ever imagine. They

have got for this humility and modesty, kindness and self-sacrifice; all the virtues have come

to the mystics by wanting not to displease another. But have they succeeded? To some

extent. But the stage which made them successful in this idea was only one stage, and that

stage was a complete isolation, completely retired from the world, either living in a hermit live



or living in the caves of the mountains or in the forest, where no one can touch them. That is

the only one way out of it, and there is no other way. When Christ was crucified -–that settles

the question. there is no other question. If there was no blame there would not have been a

crucifixion. The greatest ones were blamed the most, and this time is worse than the former

times. Have we not seen before us, there was one day President Wilson; every newspaper in

every nation, he was the man who was really inspired, everybody admired it, everyone

thought it was the best thing in the world. It did not last for a long time that opinion, then

came a blame. It is not only prophets and masters, but even worldly great men, there is

blame ready, as soon as there is a praise there is blame. Of course it is unfortunate when

there is no praise, and blame alone, it is very hard to bear. But at the same time, there is no

person who has nothing to be praised in him, only people do not see it. But blame is human

tendency. It is the easiest thing to blame a person, there is always a reason to success.

17.11.25 Sufi training: imitation of the teacher

Tuesday

The main thing in the Sufi training is the imitation of the teacher.

But now to understand this more clearly, how it can be done. There are certain things in the

teacher which a pupil can only imitate when the pupil has developed so that he has reached

the evolution of the teacher. And such things the pupils may not imitate, but try to understand

them better. The things that the pupil can imitate are so many, that if a pupil was respondent

to every movement that the teacher made, and to all that the teacher did under different

conditions and situations, that the pupil will have enough to practice in life. Today this is the

age of intellectuality, and intellectuality not in the right sense of the word, but in the wrong

sense of the word. Not real intellectuality, but false intellectuality. They call it intellectuality.

They would rather learn some theories, beliefs, dogmas, speculations, conceptions written in

a book, and call it occult knowledge, and give all the importance to it, instead of taking that

path of the mystics which has always proved to be the royal road, the imitation of the teacher

whose path they have followed. All the curious minds, who seek for occult knowledge, expect

some guidance from somewhere, and those who do not see teacher in themselves and

among them, they satisfy them with such theories that they can confuse their heads in this

puzzle for a long, long time, before they are fully confused, and then they do not know where



they are, and what they are. There are numberless examples of this kind to be found today.

In the search of truth people going in the path of knowledge, and arriving at nothingness. In

the end entirely confused. Those who tread the spiritual path, they do not need to have such

curiosities. It is the path to truth, and every step one must realize reality, and not

speculations. It is going towards reality, not towards confusion.

Moral conception is the last thing that a pupil today thinks about. In the spiritual path a moral

conception is the first thing. But which moral conception? Not the ordinary moral conception,

a higher moral conception, which is seen by the essence of reason and understanding. And it

is keen observation of the life of the teacher that gives a pupil insight into that moral

conception which makes a person’s life spiritual.

This is a prophetic realization, not only a conception, that we cannot get away with anything

from this market place of the world without paying for it, and no one but a Prophet can see it

as clearly as in the light of the day how the hand of wisdom and justice is working this whole

mechanism in a way which seems quite contrary to the average man.

Now coming further to the thought of imitation. What a pupil can particularly watch in his

teacher’s way of dealing with people, is the psychological action what that person demands,

and how the teacher answers it. And if instead of observing it that way he observes it with his

limited sense of justice, then his eyes will be veiled, because before he has observed it

keenly and studied the psychological side of his teacher’s action, he has judged it

……………..what the teacher has said or done, he has judged him. And he has made the

teacher and his action as small as his width of outlook.

No one can arrive in the presence of God without self-denial. But that is far off, even no one

can arrive at the understanding of one’s teacher’s conception without self-effacement. As

long as he sees himself, then he stands at a distance, which he deserves standing, and he

cannot go any further.

There is a little story about it. Moses was travelling with Khidr. Khidr was the spiritual guide,

the teacher. And young Moses when coming near a bank of the river saw that a child was

being drowned and the mother was washing on one side. She did not see the child drown,

and when the child was already drowned, then she saw it. And Moses saw from a distance,

and said to the teacher, “Pray, go and save the child!” The teacher said, “Be quiet.” Because

it was not the place for the pupil to say to the teacher; from the heart of the teacher it must

come to save this child. Moses was very grieved over this, the child drowned and the teacher



made no effort. A little further they went, and there was a boat, and that boat was in a

whirlpool, and the boat was on the point of being drowned. And Moses begged again to his

teacher, will he not save them. And the teacher said, “You must keep quiet. The first work of

the pupil is to be quiet, and to see what the teacher does, not to order what the teacher must

do. As much as you see I am seeing also.” But Moses was very uneasy, a Prophet who was

born to sympathize with mankind, and whose kindness was very great, and eager to help

everyone.

He said, “Teacher, explain to me, I am your pupil and feel such an inclination to help. Why

you, who are compassion itself should have refrained from doing it?” And the teacher said,

“Child, there is a hand of justice working behind this all. And there are times when you can

be active, and there are times when you can be passive. For the greater power you have, the

more you must have your action in control. Otherwise your own kindness might effect into a

terrible catastrophe.” He said, “What is the explanation of it?” The teacher said, “This little

child who was drowning was going to be a leader of a tremendous struggle in this country,

and this moment the forces which were working against that struggle were trying to drown

him. If I would have saved this child it would have caused the deaths of numberless lives,

through the struggle which was coming out of this. The difference was, that Moses only saw

the child and the mother. The teacher saw the child and the future. Then he said, “What

about this boat, there were so many people?” He said, “Do you know where they were

going? That boat was the boat of thieves and robbers, they were armed, they were going to a

certain port to attach all the caravans passing through there. And since God’s justice is living

the black forces came and turned the boat round and round in that whirlpool, and then it was

drowned. If this was saved it means I would have caused hundreds of lives destruction.

“Sometimes in the guise of negligence there is a kindness, and sometimes in the form of

kindness there could be a worse catastrophe.

Q. In a case similar, what must you do, must you pray before acting in a case of

disease? The first movement is to cure, sometimes there happen difficulties.

A. The thing is this, that it is always good to help in the trouble of a person, always. Till

that intuition is so developed that you see behind the trouble. Only in that case one may

refrain from it, when it suggests to refrain of it.

Now I will tell you a bad example of imitation. Once I had a person travelling with me, whom I

told some ways about speaking with the candidate for initiation, to prepare them to know

about it. And I gave him certain questions, for instance, these are the questions upon which

you may get answer from them. But you may not appear as if you were making examination.



He said, I can manage alright. He did not pay much attention to it. We arrived in a place, and

he asked someone, a lady, “Is your husband a good person, is he really good to you?” And

the lady was so shocked, that she never came again. She was going to become my pupil.

She was most sympathetic. But as soon as she was frightened by this question she never

came again. Before asking how she was, had she taken interest in this subject, or had she

ever been a member of a society, he asked about her husband. This was going too soon.

After having seen four, five persons, who ran away after seeing him, he ran away himself. He

was so disgusted about the people running away.

At the same time for me it is of the greatest importance that everything about a mureed is

told to me, either by my Shaikh or Khalif, or the mureed tells me directly, or somebody else.

But in order to get to a person to know of his condition one must go very slowly, and it is the

most delicate question; one must proceed very gently. Otherwise the person is shocked. If

someone says, “Will you please tell me if you have any illness?” the person thinks, “I have

come for spiritual guidance, I have not come here to speak about illness.” Or to ask has your

father or grandfather been sound-minded? It would make a person feel ………….Besides,

the less one asks, the better it is. They must say themselves…………. The wiser you are the

less you ask, and the more you know that is the wonderful part of it. Then your sympathy

makes them confide in you.

Q. How far is a mureed justified to tell about another mureed?

A. Mureed is only justified in telling me of another mureed, who is appointed on that

mission. If not, the mureed is not justified to tell about another mureed. Only the Shaikh and

Khalif, they are entitled to tell. But in the absence of Shaikh or Khalif I give that part to a

mureed to perform. It is not always I give this work to a mureed, because I want to know, but

because also that this mureed must get some experience by being able to do this work for

me. If not I do not depend upon the account that I hear from anybody else, or from that

person; I depend upon my own intuition. Yes, it is a great pleasure for me to hear from that

person account which exactly fits in with my intuition, because it is just like filling with color

and design; a design is already there, and it is filled with color and it is a very great joy for me

to have it. Just like a physician who from the first sight has gathered what condition this

person is in, and then the person begins to tell him also, and he has already known the

condition of the person. Therefore it is a great satisfaction to him, because it confirms what

he has intuitively felt about him. And diagnosis about a person’s spiritual condition is the

most important thing in giving initiation. It is very amusing that some mureeds think that if we

know more practices to give to the mureeds, those who work, some workers, the more rich

we are. But I say it is not true. The more you are capable of diagnosis, the further you are in



this path. That is the most important thing. And this diagnosis can be made by three things,

by the outward impression you get of a person, by the thought-reading – what you read from

the mind of the person – and by feeling the vibrations, atmosphere. And by these three

things what you gather that is the most interesting thing, because that will inspire you to give

the prescription, to give a practice. But if that is not so, then it is just like a doctor without the

knowledge of diagnosis, and with twenty thousand medicines in his store, that he can every

day kill a person. If not, theoretical person is just like an ordinary orthodox preacher. That is

all. I have heard a preacher preach in the public that those who are wicked, and they do not

fear God, there will come a day when on their bare head big stones will be thrown. So that is

very easy.

Q. How to practice thought-reading?

A. Thought-reading is practiced by emptying the mind. The more one can empty the

mind and be passive. It is a practice, the practice of blankness, that enables one to read the

mind. One day I had a visit from a man who was very clairvoyant. It was in India. I sent for

him, and he came. And we had three, four persons sitting in the room, and he looked at a

person and said, “Yes, yes, yes (that was his way) you have lost your job, and you are

seeking for it every day. Yes, yes, you are very tired. Yes, yes, yes and you are promised,

yes you are promised.” And it was alright, what he said was correct. Yes, and then to the

other person, “Yes, yes, yes, my son, that will not do, you want to get away with as much

money as you can, is it not? But it cannot last, you will have to get out one day.” And this

man was so embarrassed. Yes, yes, and then to the third man, “Yes, yes, you like to go

drinking, all right, enjoy, enjoy.” And there was a boy of twelve years sitting there, and he

said, “Yes, yes, yes, three days before you had an examination, and you failed at that

examination. You had written that example rightly on your slate, and then you saw on the

slate of the other boy, if not you would have passed the examination.” And it was true. Where

it all comes from? It was mind reading, he read mind, he was so concentrated that he read

mind.

Q. Did he lead a special life?

A. On the contrary, he had a bottle in his hand, when he came there, and a glass in the

other. But he was most concentrated.

There was a dervish in Hyderabad, he used to smoke hashish with a little pipe. After having

a good sip of it he would throw the smoke in the space, and then he would say, “Now what

do you want me to tell you?” “Tell me about my aunt who is living in Bombay or Calcutta.”

“Where does she live? All right, I shall find her out.” And then he says, “from the station now



here is the road, and from this road the right hand side lane, is it not?” “Yes,” he said. “This is

the number of the house.” He said, “Yes. And the drawing room, I now go in the drawing

room.” Then he finds out, and he says, “she is sitting there and she is doing this.” And then

they wrote a letter and found out that exactly it is so. What happened was, he first read the

mind, and through the mind got to the house, then got to the aunt, and so what the aunt was

doing. He followed the mind of the person, and smoke was concentration. But intoxication is

always a concentration. Anything like this concentrates a person’s mind. In the East sages

never take this way, they practice concentration.



19.09.25 Questions and Answers

Q. How can we make God intelligible?

A. Where I have said of making God intelligible is with quite a different point of view. I

have said it simply as it stands in words. You can make this chair intelligible by touching, by

looking at it, and see how it is made. You can make a house intelligible by seeing how it is

made. You can make a tree intelligible by seeing how it is, its stem, fruits, appearance,

leaves. Then what comes out of it. The word ‘intelligible’ means: through our senses we feel

a thing, we know a thing, we have a conception of a thing. That is to make it intelligible. To

make anything intelligible is to make a concrete conception of it.

And now the question is: how to make God intelligible. This is impossible, to make God

intelligible really. But at the same time it is in order to make God intelligible that Egyptians

made Sphinx; it is in order to make God intelligible that the fire worshipers make the sun in

their belief; it is in order to make God intelligible that people have made idol worship; and it is

also in order to make God intelligible that people esteemed their divine ideal with their

devotion, as those worshippers of Jesus Christ. All these forms are attempts on the part of

man to make God intelligible. And man can only make God intelligible in the form that seems

to him the best. That form must be seen by him, and must be imagined by him, and must be

known by him. And he knows that form as a person; he calls it Christ, or some other name he

gives to it. He makes him the King, because he thinks that the king is the greatest person; he

gives Him the throne and crown. He calls him the Master of the Day of Judgement, because

he knows there is no justice in this world; so he thinks it must be the Judge. He thinks all that

is beautiful surrounds Him with angels, conceives the form of angels as human beings. He

pictures God in the form of man. Or there have been attempts of putting all sorts of things on

one being: the Chinese used to make a dragon to which all things were attached: fish, lion,

tiger, man, everything that existed, in order to make one form intelligible to all. Every effort is

a failure, but every effort to make God intelligible is worth while.

Now there have been two stages of making God intelligible. One stage was idol worship, and

the other stage was ideal worship. One was primitive stage, the other a stage forward. One

was primitive stage, in order to make God unusual, but at the same time intelligible. A further

stage was that they made God an ideal. Instead of making Him a God of form they made him

a God of attributes; and then they said, “All the beauty, goodness, wisdom and justice belong

to Him. All things that we can conceive in our mind we give those things to God, and

consider all those things in God in their perfection.” This is the highest form of making God



intelligible. That all that our intelligence, our mind, thinks as beautiful, as good, as valuable,

to see all that in perfection in one Being, and to idealize that Being as the greatest and the

highest of all beings. That is what we call ‘to make God intelligible.’ But at the same time in

the spiritual path that is the first step. In religious path that is the last step. In spiritual path

that is the first step.

Q. What is Heaven?

A. I would define it in three ways. One way is the conception of creeds. As in Arabia,

when the Buddhawans came to the Prophet and asked him, “What is Heaven?” “Heaven is a

place where there are rivers of milk, tanks of honey, and emeralds and pearls and rubies and

diamonds are to be found, and all that is good and beautiful is to be found there.” So they

said, “That is the place we are looking for.” And the Prophet said, “That place you will only

enter if you will do good. But if you will lie and steal and rob you will go to the other place.”

Then he showed the other place with all kinds of torture. That is the place which is taught to

the ordinary men.

Then there is a Heaven which is ‘reaching above’. What is above us is Heaven; the plane

where we stand is the earth, and the plane to which we look forward is Heaven. And we all

look forward to something, not only human beings, but also the earth is reaching upwards in

the form of mountains and hills. The water is reaching upwards in the form of rising waves.

Birds try to reach upwards by flying, and the animals try to reach upwards by standing on

their hind legs. And in this way every creature is trying to reach upwards, though he does not

know where he wants to and what he wants to reach. But he wants to reach upwards. And

when we look upwards what do we find? We find stars and the moon and the sun. And it is

more pleasant to look at it than to look at the earth with all its beauty. And it is the climate in

the Western countries which would not allow us to look at heaven. But in the tropical

countries they can sit for hours. That is the only thing which can lift you up and make you

free from all the worries of this dense earth. What do we see? We only see light. The light

inspires us, attracts us, and gives us such a feeling of upliftment, that nothing can give. It

shows us that light is the thing that we seek after. Even light in its visible form as we see in

the heaven. But that is symbolical Heaven. Real Heaven is where there is no light that our

eyes can see. But there is light that our soul can see, and that light is the Grace of God. That

light is the soul’s unfoldment. That light is wakening to the secret of life. And it is that

wakening which is Heaven.

And there is a third description, which is the description of Omar Khayyam, that the Heaven

of each person is what gives him a joy. As in the Vadan it is said, ‘Whether you are at the top



of the mountain or at the foot, if you are happy where you are, that is all that matters.” If you

are happy at the foot you are just as much in Heaven as when you are at the top. And if you

are happy at the top you are just as much in Heaven as when you are at the foot. It is the

…experiencing something, wakening to a certain consciousness which gives one a joy. And

that joy comes as a fulfillment of life. And it is that joy which can be called Heaven.

There is a story of the Beni Israel, that a very pious man was one day grieved over the

injustice of life, and said, “Well, all through life I have been a good person, and I have done

all that seemed right to me, and I have lived a religious life. And now I would like to know

what will be the end of it all. Moses, will you ask God this question for me?” Moses said,

“Yes, when I come back from the top of the mountain I shall give you the answer.” This man,

as busy as ever in his prayers and vigils, he was waiting for Moses to come and give him the

tidings. And as Moses went a little further there was a man sitting with a bottle and a glass by

his side. And he said, ‘Moses, come here, come! Where are you going? I know, you are

going to ask for this man. Will you not ask for me where He is going to put me? Has he any

place for me somewhere?” Moses was very astonished by the manner of his asking; but he

was enjoying his little glass. Moses went on the Sinai, and came back with answer. Moses

told this man, the pious man, that, “for you there is a good future to look forward to, and

therefore your prayer is granted.” He says, “Well, that is something after having done all this;

if I can look forward to something after having done all this; if I can look forward to

something, that is something.” Then Moses came to this man, and he said, “What answer

you had for me?” And Moses said, “for you the worst place in hell.” He said, “Yes.” He began

to dance. He got up and began to dance with his bottle and glass, and said, “Thanks, Lord,

that You have remembered me, a wicked person like me for You to remember! I thought that

God Who is the Greatest would not remember a wicked person like me! I do not care where

You put me –if it is in the worst place – I am only glad that God knows of me. That is the

thing that gives me the greatest delight!” The result was contrary. And Moses wanted an

explanation from God why was the result contrary. And the answer was that, “No piety nor

goodness can be equal to Our gifts. You cannot buy them by piety and goodness and

spirituality. It is Our Grace. That man wanted to buy Heaven. It is too precious for all the piety

that one can give for it. That man, he was content. He was resigned to Our Will. That is the

way to come to ……….it is the (resigned one) who attains it.

It is a great lesson. In the first place that our goodness and our piety, it cannot buy for us

God’s Grace or spiritual upliftment. It is good for us, that is all. But we cannot buy with it

anything; it is too small a price for any great gift. It is a lesson again that resignation and



contentment, and to be conscious (of) one’s own smallness and faults, and humbleness; if

there is anything that brings upon us Divine Blessing, it is that which brings it.

Q. What is meant by the saying of Christ: to abstain from vain repetitions in prayer?

A. There was an old custom among Jews to repeat the sacred Name for so many times,

as we do Wazifa. And this became a profession every often of those who wanted to establish

their reputation as pious. It is for that reason that Jesus Christ said not to do vain repetitions,

because it was done for show. Also there was a custom among ancient Jews, of anything

that they said, to say, “by God, I do this.” In order to make you believe that it is true they say

‘by God.’ And therefore with truth and lie both this word was being used. Therefore this rule

was pronounced. But why this custom came to existence was from mystics. In all old

religions there was the psychological science that by aphorism and by their repetition and by

the repetition of the sacred names wonderful things were accomplished and conditions were

brought about. By understanding this teaching of Christ wrongly, people have given it a

special protestance (??), and thereby lost the great secret and benefit that one could derive

by repetition, if done rightly.

Q. Is it true that there cannot be development without pain?

A. We do not need to look for pain; because there is enough pain as it is, is it not? If we

forget that we need it, it is still better. Because pain always follows us; and as soon as we

say, “We need you,” then it comes closer. And life has enough pain. The best thing is to

forget it, and in this way only we can keep it away. By pain we arrive at a higher realization,

but we do not need to seek for it. Life gives us enough pain, more than enough; we need not

look for it. Therefore, instead of admiring pain we need not look for it. Therefore, instead of

admiring pain keep indifferent to it. Instead of thinking about it best to forget it. The best way

of getting over pain is by not acknowledging it.

Q. Which is the way to control uncontrollable children?

A. The only thing to control children is to connect currents with them, currents of one’s

feeling with them. That is the only thing to control them.

Q. How to avoid fear?

A. When we come to confidence and realization. I have heard a story that some young

men were talking among themselves about ghosts. One said, “I do not believe in it.” “Well, if

you do not believe you ought to stay the night in the cemetery, and if then in the morning you

say that you did not believe, we shall believe.” And in the East those places are very

frightening; one cannot imagine here how much more frightening those places are. This man



said this with confidence, that there is not such a thing as ghosts. And the period of

confidence passed, he sat there for six hours. And now before the breaking of the morning

he got up from his seat, fully comforted that there is not such a thing. Unfortunately his long

robe was caught in a cactus plant, and when he began to go he found his garb pulled. And

as soon as he arrived after this confidence to this realization, he fell down with horror, and it

was difficult to save him.

But there is another little story which gives the mystic solution to it. A chela was going with a

Guru. Teacher was going to the forest, and this pupil had also decided to meditate in the

forest. But as soon as they left town and they went through the wilderness this pupil looked

here and there, and said to the teacher, “Teacher, I fear.” The teacher said, “Throw it away!”

Pupil could not understand, how can one throw away one’s fear? Then they walked a little

further, and he said, “Teacher, I fear.” He said, “do you fear; why not throw it away? Throw it

away for once and for all.” The pupil could not understand. And third time when he asked,

“Teacher, I fear very much,” he said, “I told you twice throw it away. Have you got anything

in your purse?” “Only a few gold bricks I have saved.” “Throw it away. The fear is in your

pocket. Once you have thrown it there is no fear.”

As you have said: it is detachment which results into fearlessness. As much as we attach

ourselves to the things of this world, so much we have fear. Because we have attached

ourselves to them. When we have detached ourselves from them there is no fear. Of course,

the fear of life, when it comes to life, then it is realization. But that realization comes by

knowing it.

There is a story that a person was clinging to the branch of a tree. And the whole night he

shed tears, and he was so frightened at every moment of the night that he did not know what

to do. Because he did not know whether there is abyss or a sea beneath his feet or what

there is. Or there is a hollow or there is water beneath it. And when the morning broke and

the sun came up, then he saw that he was not one foot distant from the earth. All that fear

vanished in one moment. In this way the realization of a condition takes away fear.



??.11.25 Problems that make difficulties

The problems that make for each person difficulties are of two kinds.

The first difficulty is that a person says, “The authorities above me do not allow me free

working.” That is one problem. And the other problem is that, “Those who assist me, or help

me, that they do not do as I wish them to do.” These are two problems just now before us of

the individual workers. And when I am gone to the United States, and when I am not here on

the spot, it is natural that in a co-operative working as we are doing there will arise such

problems now and then.

And we must find a solution for such problems. I think that a willing worker can do a great

deal of work under any capacity and it is not necessary for that person to imagine that he is

not allowed, or he is suppressed to do it. In order to do the work a person need not have a

special authority. And if a person had a special authority and the person did not do the work,

then what about it? So it is not necessary that a person should wait for that authority. When a

person is willing to work he must work as much as he can, and as harmoniously as possible.

If they do not regard the authorities above them, then they spoil the work, but if they did

harmoniously the work …Suppose a mureed comes to Baroness d’Eichtal, “I want to do so

much work, but I have no authority to do it.” Baroness shall say, “I shall be very glad if you

will do it.” It is the doing of the work, and not question of authority in the matter. This I am

saying because I have received some letters from Geneva, and there this problem has come

up of the authority. But this problem has come up because some of them think about

authority instead of thinking about the work. If one would think about the work one can do a

great deal of work. I know of some people in India, of very ordinary class, and their work is to

go about in the street somewhere and take the earth. And by looking into the earth they find

gold and silver and metals; and very often some of them become rich by doing it. If such a

useless work as that which no one can think about can produce such results, there is every

scope in (that) the Sufi Movement can produce it.

Therefore we need not think about what appointment we have, but we must think that the

work is before us. And in whatever way we can be useful we must do.

Besides that, there is another problem, and that problem is for the officials. Since our need of

the workers is great the best thing is to give every encouragement and every help to the

workers to make them feel content and to make them feel enthusiastic, and that their work is



appreciated and valued. Because that is a great secret of keeping their hearts in the

condition of working. These two things must be done at the same time.

Besides, now our attitude towards those societies who could feel inclined to oppose us, and

who would feel inclined to join with us. Naturally the societies which are weak and feeble and

are drowning into the water will be very glad to cling to us in that condition, to be saved from

being drowned. Naturally they will ask our co-operation. And there are other societies who

think that this particular movement is beginning to flourish a little bit. They will be afraid that

one day it will stand opposed to us; and before that day comes we must knock it down. It is

natural. The best thing therefore is not to be tempted by the co-operation of these societies

which want to cling to us, nor to become conscious of those societies which want to oppose

us. By being conscious of it we shall lose the strength of our society; and by giving in to the

other societies we shall also diminish the power of our movement. The best thing is that our

movement stands as it is, and whatever its work is, it does, instead of seeing co-operation or

to give strength to other movements. Because in the present time our movement is such that

itself it is infant. It wants a bringing up. And if this movement takes up other movements it will

go into nothingness.

I heard from our National Representative from Germany that those who come now to the Sufi

Movement they have not found its innate motive and object of working. They have not the

grasp of our work. They are appreciative, but they have not the grasp of the work. That

Representative writes that “New Thought”, which is something like us, is a movement worth

recognizing. But we have never refused to recognize any movement. It is not necessary that

a particular movement we should recognize. Furthermore he says that by bringing this

movement together we shall vitalize our power. But this is not true also. Why? Because we

shall prove ourselves to be a movement that can be opposed by those who oppose “New

Thought”, because we stand near that particular movement. Or if there came any other

movement it would be the same thing. To go together with them, we do not need it. We shall

go slowly, and ourselves. It is a distraction. Therefore co-operative work is with all; we

sympathize with all, we oppose no one. We would like to do any service, for any society,

institution. But we do not need to especially unite with any movement. It is not necessary.

It was a desire also on the part of our National Representative that we shall go hand in

hand, the “New Thought” and the Sufi Movement. We are not responsible for the “New

Thought”. For a movement for which we are not responsible, how can one? Besides, it only

gives dependence. Just like the singer in India, they always avoid to sing with an instrument.



They sing themselves, for the voice to stand on its own feet. If we are stable we shall try to

stand on our own feet. If we shall, so much the better.

In England there was an attempt of the Theosophical Society to see if the Sufi Movement

could work hand in hand with the Theosophical Society. But what does it mean? Will the Sufi

Movement become a part of the Theosophical Society? For a little child to walk with a grown-

up person it means that: will that grown-up person take care of the child. Since our

Movement is in the child condition it will be always that way. Theosophical Society had now

more than forty years to work through the world; and we did not have even ten years,

because the years of the war have been unfavorable for us, and the years of the peace

mean unrest. So till now we have never had a time to breathe to do our work. Only we have

existed through this all, and that is to be thankful for. To unite with us now that we are just

starting, we would be swallowed in it.

When Abdul Baba came to Paris he said, “You are doing a very nice work; I have always

admired the poetry of Hafiz, Jami. Why not work hand in hand?” As soon as you work hand

in hand you lose that freedom of expression. However ….we must keep it. Since our faith is

that truth must succeed one day or other. God helps.

So I will tell my workers to keep this in mind and know that always the best thing is to avoid

co-operation with any society. Show them sympathy and kindness, and no opposition

whatever.

Now comes another question. There are many who, without being members, would like to

read Gathas. There are man who without taking much trouble would like to take the

advantage of the teachings and meetings. Of course, this is a matter which must not be

noticed too carefully. Outwardly we must not break the law, and inwardly we must not break

our sympathy. Those who want to take in that way, let them take what they will. Not

recognize it, not take notice of it. The best thing is not to accept that fast that it is so …, not to

discourage them… After all, it is for the benefit of mankind. It is not for what he does not, but

we are meant to serve. That principle in our heart, but not on our lips. As soon as we have

that principle on our lips, then we give in.

But now about those workers of ours who have perhaps left us for some time, and have not

resigned. We must still regard them as our friends and we must still regard them as

members. And unless a person has resigned we must not consider them him as someone

who has gone out. If they are inactive that does not mean that they are outcast.



Table of contents.

Table of contents. ________________________________________________________________________ 162

18.6.26 To practice the presence of God _________________________________________________ 164

21.6.26 The signs of the instruction papers _______________________________________________ 170

23.6.26 Thought-reading 1 ____________________________________________________________ 175

25.6.26 Instruction papers ___________________________________________________________ 181

About practices ________________________________________________________________________ 181

20 breaths of purification: _______________________________________________________________ 181

Wazifa: ______________________________________________________________________________ 182

The phrases: __________________________________________________________________________ 182

External Zikar: ________________________________________________________________________ 182

Concentration: ________________________________________________________________________ 183

Saum and Salat: _______________________________________________________________________ 183

28.6.26 The attitude of the mureed _____________________________________________________ 187

30.6.26 What is Collective Interview. ___________________________________________________ 196

2.7.26 The contact with Murshid ________________________________________________________ 203

7.7.26 Clairvoyance __________________________________________________________________ 206

12.7.26 Postures ___________________________________________________________________ 213

14.7.26 Thought-reading 2 ___________________________________________________________ 221

16.7.26 The Sufi point of view _________________________________________________________ 225

19.7.26 Six kinds of mureeds / silent teaching ____________________________________________ 229

21.7.26 Dreams ____________________________________________________________________ 234

23.7.26 The effect of thought on food and drink. __________________________________________ 239

26.7.26 The spirit of the mureed _______________________________________________________ 244

28.7.26 Personal Power _____________________________________________________________ 249



30.7.26 the Sufi Message as the rain of this year, this season ________________________________ 252

2.8.26 The giving of Bayat / The living dead ______________________________________________ 253

4.8.26 One need not trouble about anybody’s fault _________________________________________ 257

6.8.26 Secrecy on the path of truth. _____________________________________________________ 261

9.8.26 Attitude of taking people in the Sufi Order __________________________________________ 266

11.8.26 Magnetism _________________________________________________________________ 270

13.8.26 Relation between mureed and Murshid ___________________________________________ 275

16.8.26 The Healing Breath __________________________________________________________ 280

18.8.26 The difference between mystic power and magic. ___________________________________ 292

20.8.26 ________________________________________________________________________________ 300

23.8.26 Concentration for development of the spirit. _______________________________________ 305

25.8.26 Diet ______________________________________________________________________ 312

27.8.26 The different gestures in the prayers. ____________________________________________ 319

30.8.26 About exercises _____________________________________________________________ 323

01.9.26 The difference between Clairvoyance and Mediumistic Knowledge. _____________________ 327

03.9.26 The Sufi manner of sympathy __________________________________________________ 333

06.9.26 The uniformity of instruction papers. ____________________________________________ 338

08.9.26 Distinction of the words which have opposite meaning ______________________________ 346

10.9.26 Things to remember __________________________________________________________ 351



18.6.26 To practice the presence of God

Friday

HOW IN THE EAST, IN THE ANCIENT SUFI SCHOOLS, THEY PRACTICE WHAT IS CALLED TO

PRACTICE THE PRESENCE OF GOD.

The first stage is called Fana-fi-Shaikh, and that means the thought of the Pir, the Murshid. The Pir is a

screen, so to speak, before God, God is to be found behind that particular screen. It is therefore that the

importance of this path is much greater than any other practice known by the mystics. No doubt among

Yogis also the Guru is the first form of concentration, which leads to the higher realization; but that is more

from a metaphysical point of view. But among Sufis there is sympathy together with the metaphysical

point of view. Their sympathy first manifests in the form of devotion for their teacher, and in the next form it

expands.

And now, how does this devotion manifest, in what way? In the first place in concentration; in the second

place in remembering the words that the Pir has given, that all other things of the world come afterwards,

the first thing and the thing of the greatest importance is to remember the words that the Pir gives. And the

third is to act upon the direction that is given to them by the Pir; and the fourth is the belief in Pir; and fifth

is the appreciation of the Pir.

I have told you the story of Farid, when he was told to think of the cow. That after some time he answered

his Pir in the sound of a cow. And the Pir said, “Come out of the door.” He said, “My horns are too long, I

cannot go out.” When the same concentration is on Murshid, on the Pir then one is the Pir, then the

quality of the Pir one gets. Therefore the knowledge of the Pir comes by itself, without studying, without

learning, one inherits what Pir possesses, by itself, by a spiritual right.

And the second, this develops memory and makes the sight keen, that on everything, every condition of

life, when a person looks at it one penetrates through it, one sees what is in the depth of it. For instance, I

was given by my Pir a little idea of the planes of manifestation and the inner planes in a few words, and

thinking on those words, I developed in four years time the knowledge that could not be contained in a

book. It was much vaster than a book, because the words were living and those words became just like

plants that flourish and bring forth fruit. Every word was just like a seed that brought trees and fruits and

flowers. To the other people they are words like any other words they hear from anybody and let it go; but

for the real Chela the words of Guru are living, it is a phenomenon in itself. They are never forgotten;

anything in the world they forget but the word of Guru.

And the third is acting upon the direction of Guru. Hafiz has said in his book, that, “If your Pir tells you that:

sprinkle your prayer-rug with liquor, do it.” For in the East the liquor is considered unwholesome and

impure, and the prayer-rug is considered most pure; and to sprinkle liquor on the prayer-rug is the worst

thing one can advise anybody. Therefore it is against the reason of the Eastern man. But Hafiz says, “If



your Pir say it, do it, because the Pir knows the ultimate result of the action, you only know the immediate

result of it.”

And the fourth is the belief in the Pir. That is more difficult than anything. It is easy to remember Pir’s

words, it is easy to act on his direction, but to believe is the most difficult thing. And that is where many

stumble; because the reason is always an enemy of belief. Once I asked a Mureed, “If I told you that for

one year you must wander in this beautiful spot, will you do it?” The Mureed said, “Murshid, I am afraid I

cannot.” I had only asked the Mureed in joke. And the same year was so bad, for that Mureed, that in his

great grief and sadness he came to Murshid and said, “Murshid, I want to wander in that forest. If I had

known that I had to go through a still worse punishment!” To take the words of the Pir deeply, seriously,

and to act in his direction, therefore, is much easier, because it is the belief which is the first thing and the

most essential thing.

And the fifth is the appreciation of the Pir. The appreciation comes by the lack of judging the teacher.

Because that is the fault that very often manifests, even not knowingly manifests. No Mureed can say that

he has not gone through it in some way or the other. Other Mureeds apart, once I remember to have seen

Murshid’s golden shoes and I wondered why Murshid must have gold shoes. It was not a lack of

appreciation, but it was an insolence on my part. No doubt the answer came very soon, from the lips of

my Murshid, because there everything is known. And his answer was that: “The wealth of the earth is at

my feet.” Gold is the wealth, that at the feet; that is the symbolism. Therefore a Mureed who does not

guard against that judging quality, which brings about lack of appreciation, may develop the tendency not

to appreciate fully, and in that case he cannot be fully benefited. You cannot be benefited by something

which you cannot appreciate. It is the appreciation from which benefit comes. What is benefit after all? It is

the greatest appreciation, it is the culmination of appreciation. If you cannot appreciate a jewel, it has no

benefit for you, no value. It is appreciation which makes the jewel precious. Therefore appreciation which

comes by not judging is the great quality that a Mureed can develop.

A Mureed may so develop that he may see the form of Murshid everywhere, that is the beginning of his

development. And it is then that he finds within himself, within his heart, the same treasure which has

attracted him to learn and to possess it from Murshid.

Q. What do you mean; the pupil will see Murshid? With his eyes, or in his mind?

A. Mind has become so concentrated that it may become a reality. First it may become next to

reality,

but afterwards it may become reality.

Q. Concentration on Murshid, and an idea that comes then, can one accept it coming from Murshid?

A. It depends how far one has grown in it. May be one has concentrated on the form of Murshid.

And

yet not been so at-onement with Murshid. But the more you advance the more you feel the same

as Murshid feels. There is another wonderful part about it. That if a Pir has left his mureed for twelve



years, and the mureed has never seen him, and the mureed has developed his concentration, and all

these twelve years the mureed has always felt the Murshid in every way; the mureed may have so

changed outwardly that Murshid not even recognizes that mureed brought before Murshid, appearance

absolutely changed. What Murshid will feel, do you know? That: Myself is coming before me. That is the

thing. What Murshid will hear from the mureed will be his own thought, his own inspiration. What Murshid

knows he knows already. His atmosphere will become Murshid’s atmosphere, his word will become

Murshid’s word, his glance will become Murshid’s glance. It is an experience for thousands and

thousands of years; all the Sufi schools know it, and they have seen unlimited examples of that.

Q. Does it help for people who find concentration difficult to take a photograph?

A. Better to avoid it. In the good singing school they avoid accompaniment, then the voice becomes

feeble. The voice must develop by itself. So for the thought to become well developed, there must

not be anything to help. Of course, in some cases it can become easier and better. At the same time it is

much more beneficial to do it without.

Q. Even in concentrating which faculty should one use, when eyes shut, the very inside one or the

one not so inside?

A. There are three stages of concentration. Suppose I consider this chair is the object of my

concentration. The first thing is that I see it before me, that is the first stage; the second thing

is that I see it within me, that is the second stage; the third is that I see that: this is me, that is the third

stage. (That is a higher stage. At first before me, more developed within me.) The story of Leila and

Majnun is a wonderful story. Majnun has longed for Leila all through his life, and gone through all

difficulties. And there came a time when Leila had promised that: I will come. So he waited near a tree.

And then waiting there for many years, having no food, nothing, just the hope was his sustenance, that

sustained him, that was his life. But his hands and feet turned into wood. He was one with the tree

and, his eyes closed, was waiting there. And once the woodcutter went, and instead of chopping the

wood, he struck against his knee, and then Majnun, instead of saying: I am pain, he said “Leila”. That

man was frightened, and ran away; he thought it was a Jinn ghost. He found Leila, wandering about;

she did not think she will ever see Majnun. She wanted to make a pilgrimage to the place where she

had seen Majnun, and promised where she would come. In that feeling she went there. He said: “Do

not go near there, there is a ghost near there”. She was not frightened of a ghost; she said: “That is

the place where I must go”. As she comes there she asked: “Majnun?” He said: “Leila”. She said:

“Here I am”. Majnun answered: “I am Leila”. There was no more Leila outside; by that time Majnun’s

soul had become Leila. Even the other Leila was outside Leila. The soul had turned into the object that

it had thought about. Life is a wonderful phenomenon. This process is a process to come into reality.

Because from one illusion you come into another illusion. That is the stepping stone to reality. Neither

was he Leila, nor Majnun. But by becoming Leila Majnun lost his Majnun identity; one illusion was lost;

then the other illusion becomes a stepping stone to reality.

Q. Is this the process on earth, where the soul goes down?



A. It is the same process. That is the nature of the soul. What the soul thinks it becomes. What

the soul is impressed with, that it becomes.

Q. If working for you, for the Message, I think it is rather easy to see your image. But in business,

with people with not the slightest idea of spirituality, I do not know where I shall combine you.

A. Combination is not necessary. When the concentration is greater, then every tree and every

leaf and every branch and every rock it all turns into the same form which you see. Picture is

not necessary; every rock is the same.

Q. How about the people; do you see the Murshid in all the people also?

A. Yes, there was a mureed of a Pir, who called every person Murshid. And once he called me

also Murshid. And I was thinking that he thought I was really Murshid. I was at that time

beginning my work with my Murshid. I thought what a wonderful impression he has of me. But a little

further we went, and a policeman he called also Murshid. That is a wonderful stage. But the difficulty is

that people become universal before time. In that way they make a great mistake. For instance, now in

New York, a person said: “Murshid, I wish to make a school for you here, that will be chiefly your

school, and everything you need I can provide for that school. Only any idea or anyone who wants to

bring before the public any spiritual idea must be given a chance in that school.” So I said: “It is a very

good thing that you engage me to wash dishes; if you keep someone to wash them, then they are

washed and clean. Then everyone who comes may put in something also, so they never will be

washed.” That is too broad. People become too broad before having accomplished what they must

accomplish by the first idea. That is the difficulty. As I said the other day, a mureed went very, very far,

and met with the Bahais, and said: “Bahais are very good people,” then he met the Theosophists,

“They are very good workers;” then he saw the New Thought people: “Wonderful work they are doing.”

He came home, wrote a letter to Murshid, and said: “There are Bahais, Theosophists, New Thought

people, they all are doing God’s good work. Now why should we add to it? It is not necessary. Why

should we work? I do not see any reason.” I could not discuss with him. If I discuss I defeat my own

teaching. If I discuss, that person will be stronger in the discussion; everybody will believe him, not

me. Yet he does not understand that he has become too soon broad. Broadness must come in its own

time. If a child becomes as large as a middle aged person, then it is unnatural growth. The child must

grow normally, naturally, and come to that condition.

Q. What about that same mureed, who said that the best thing was to try and come in touch with

God without any intervening [ladder]?

A. You must say that it is a very good thing too. If one can go upstairs without a ladder, it is a

very good thing, it is a wonderful thing. If you will do it, why not? If you can go on without

something, it is just as well; if you can it is a good thing.

Q. Is the Madzub an exception? Is it true that Madzub has never a Murshid?



A. No, a Murshid may become a Madzub in the end, but Madzub is not a Murshid. Murshid’s

work is different.

Q. Has a Madzub no teacher?

A. That is what they call a soul who is born in a cosmic consciousness. That soul is not a human

being; only in appearance. That soul has not fulfilled the purpose of life. The purpose of life is

from human to rise to divine ideal. If a soul is born ideal, that is not a credit. A child that is born with

cosmic consciousness, who has not striven for it, who is born with it, that was not the purpose. The

purpose is that we are born without it, and we grow towards it. This person never becomes a human

being; was not born a human being; he is only the cosmos in a human body. The whole Cosmos,

Absolute. It always wants to tear the body, he always wants to break it. One day it will break it.

Sometimes they do not eat for months and months. You must not be surprised if a Madzub flies

through the air, and walks over the water, or sits here and works in America. Madzub is a cosmos

itself. Before us it is a human being, within himself he is all.

Q. If he has [been] born so, it is not a purpose?

A. It is a kind of soul that is born. Just like a dwarf; a dwarf is grown and never grows. Madzub is

born like that, born perfect. But there is no meaning in his life, because he does not become

perfect. The wonder is in becoming perfect. From imperfection to perfection, that is the most valuable

thing in life. To be born perfect, then there is nothing to accomplish; it is most uninteresting. They are

always the greatest enemies of their own body. A Madzub used to sleep near mad elephants, but

elephants would not dare to kill him. Eating the bread of the wild elephants. He was very pleased to be

in the association of the elephants, because the elephants understood him, and he understood the

elephants. He would not move about with human beings, they were too wicked for him; elephants

were his associates.

Q. Are Madzubs holy?

A. We cannot call it holy, because holiness comes by development. A person who is born in that

way, it is nothing; everything and nothing.

Q. There is no consciousness?

A. There is God-consciousness. He is conscious, but his consciousness is not a human

consciousness.

Q. Why do thy come?

A. They are born like that. They have their purpose just the same.

Q. Do we have them in the West?

A. Sometimes they are. But in the West there are such laws that they will put them in the

asylum. But in the East one sees more, especially in India there are wonderful Madzubs,



wonderful, at the time of the Mogul dynasty; his picture is in the British Museum in London. He was so

wonderful that the lightening and thunder and the rain and everything, it was his command. They

command nature, they play with it, just like children play with it. “Go on, go on, lightening! Stop, stop,

clear away!” They play with the sky just like the child, with the sea, with the tides, with all those things.

Q. The Masters can do the same?

A. Yes, the only thing is that the Masters arrive to it, the Madzub is born with it. May be that a

Madzub may show a much greater thing still. Maybe that there is a Master in a Madzub. But

their self discipline is so great sometimes. I have seen a Madzub who never looked at any person,

eyes cast down all the time. I never saw him look at any person. I never saw such a concentration.

The eyes are there and yet not used. Even if anybody spoke with him, he was always looking at the

Solar Plexus, there was the mirror. The whole universe reflected, the whole world is reflected there.

Q. So if they are speaking they see the person reflected?

A. Yes, the soul of the person reflected.

Q. Is it an incarnation of God?

A. Why call it incarnation of God?

Q He has cosmic….? What is the difference between Rassoul and Madzub?

A. Rassoul is just like in us there is an energy, in us there is a breath and power, but at the same

time there is one element that is in our mind, knowledge. A sacred thing. And so the Rassoul

is the perfection of knowledge, the knowledge of the whole thing.

Q. But the Rassoul has more than that?

A. Rassoul is a very great function, the greatest function. It cannot be compared with Madzub or

master. Because Rassoul accomplishes that which God desires to be accomplished in the

world. Rassoul is the educator of humanity. He finishes the education of humanity for so many

thousand years. The work of Madzub is a different work, because it is the work with the elements, with

fire, water. They will ask a mountain to break into a volcano, they will play with it. They will play with

air, climate, with the water, with flood. Therefore a Madzub can cause apparently a great disaster,

cause floods, anything, earthquakes, volcanic eruption, thunderstorms.

Q. Is every thunderstorm the result of the work of a Madzub?

A. That is not wrong to say that, because there is nothing that works automatically. It all has a

command behind it. And the work of the Madzub is the command of God.

……



21.6.26 The signs of the instruction papers

Monday

I will speak this evening of the signs of the instruction papers.

In the first place the size of the instruction papers must be just the same. Besides that, the form must

be just the same. There must be the place at the top for the heading and the address. And beneath it

two lines (of) which I shall show an example, with four spaces in it; in the first place the year, in the

second place the city, in the third space the country and in the fourth space what initiation is given to

them.

This instruction paper may be continued for one year, and during that year if you wanted to give a new

exercise it may be given on the same paper. But then the next year the paper of exercises must

change.

Those who receive instructions, if they are progressing, next year they may be given another initiation,

the third year another initiation. With each initiation a new practice may be given. But the giving of a

new practice must not depend on the initiation. It must depend on the need and the progress of a

person. Also it is not necessary that they be limited to one year, but this is the general rule, that every

person receives another initiation if he proves to be progressing, year after year.

On the instruction paper it is better to have the same abbreviated terms as I have used in order to

keep a uniformity between us, that the instruction paper of one initiator may be read by another

initiator. Suppose in the future we arranged in the same way as now it is being arranged (and Tagore

is promoting the idea that the professors of one country must go to another country), maybe we may

come in a few years to the stage where the initiators are exchanged. In that case there must be a

uniformity of abbreviated forms.

It is necessary for the beginner and for the most advanced to do the twenty breaths of purification. It is

also necessary for every member of the Sufi Order to receive the Saum and Salat. But besides Saum

and Salat now there come in Vadan three added prayers. For the first three initiations the prayer which

is headed with the word “Pir” must be given. After that, which is headed “Nabi” may be given to the

Advanced Circle. And to the Inner Circle the prayer which is called “Rasul” may be given. And the

psychological and mystical significance of these prayers is to balance the power of Saum. The power

of Saum is very great; and for all the members the power of Salat balances the power of Saum. But

the members who are initiated, and who are becoming more ethereal every day, for them the power of

Saum is too great. In order to balance there must be the negative prayer. Saum is positive, the other

three are negative. So the first three initiations “Pir”; after that three initiations “Nabi”; next three

initiations “Rasul”, which will balance it.

Then there are phrases given. Next time when we meet I shall explain more about it. But in Vadan,

which is now coming out, there are Alankaras. Under this heading there are many sayings; and these



sayings are to be used for phrases. This does not mean that the initiator must restrict the prescription

to these phrases. The initiator has the power to make phrases as the opportunity presents. But at the

same time the Alankaras are already there to choose from these, and it is to help the initiator with a

supply of already made phrases which may be prescribed to those who can be benefited by them.

Now about sacred words. Wazifas may not necessarily be given with the first initiation. You can as

well give a word in the language that (of the country in which) the person lives. Because sometimes, if

a person is not evolved enough, to him a sacred word means nothing. Perhaps a word which has

some meaning, and he knows it, that word makes a greater effect upon his mind than a sacred word

the meaning of which he does not know. So for the first year the initiators may use such words as

come to them intuitively, and prescribe them to the initiate. By then next year he is entitled to the

Wazifa (sacred word). For by this time you know that the person has respect for the sacred word. But I

should recommend very much while giving a sacred word, you will explain to him something about

sound, something about its power, something about its meaning, something about its result. That he

may know very well what to expect from it. Very often a word given to a person who does not know

anything about it, he thinks it is a kind of mechanical repetition. And by that he cannot profit as much

as we intend him to profit by it. It is true that no one can give his own faith to another, but one can do

one’s best in explaining to them. And sometimes explaining is convincing. It is one’s own faith which is

the power behind it. But explanation sometimes convinces a person very much.

As to the concentration with YA WAHABO, there must be the concentration of running stream of water

always. With YA FATHA there must be the opening of a door. The EXTERNAL ZIKAR must be only

given to those whom the initiator thinks are advanced enough and are spiritually inclined to go in the

spiritual path. What generally happens is that people come to the initiator with their difficulties. They

do not come for spiritual development, most of them. They come with a certain difficulty to a mystic,

and mystic must get that opportunity that: this is the opportunity, that the person has come with his

need; give him what he needs. But at the same time show him the way which is still better. The Sufis

have always done this. They became healers, inspirers, sometimes teachers, but their work was

always to guide men into the spiritual path by any excuse, by any way; even to such an extent that the

Sufis have become servants, waiters, and worked in that guise. Waiters in this sense, that they used

to have a bag of water on their shoulders; and in the hot countries, where people are very thirsty they

took water for the people to drink. Naturally people were satisfied by drinking water. Naturally they

looked at him, “Why has he given?” And the Sufi had a chance of saying a word to him, a word that

guided to the spiritual path. Sometimes they worked as a guide to the travelers, to take them from one

village to the other village. While taking to the other village they had an opportunity of talking with him.

When talking with him he helped him on the spiritual path. In every excuse, in every guise they have

always seized an opportunity of doing some good to the person they meet in the path of Truth. We

must be thankful for our opportunity, that instead of going after them they come to us everywhere.

Because today there is a spiritual awakening; everybody is looking for it. And this is our great



opportunity. In every way we can get a moment. Instead of considering it is their privilege to come to

us, we must think it is our privilege to do what we can for them. That must be our attitude.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q. I thought the initiation was given by you, Murshid.

A. No, no. You can give three initiations. Shaikha can give three initiations. The Murshidas can

give six initiations.

Q. When a person comes to you, and you have the feeling that what he really asks is to get his

health, and he wants to become a mureed in order to get health, it is very hard to know how

to help him.

A. The first thing is this: no doubt the work of Shaikha is esoteric work. It is not the healing line.

Therefore Shaikha is not responsible to heal anyone. That must be made clear first. But at the

same time, those who work in the spiritual path must do the work just the same. And there is a most

beautiful way of doing the work, and that is to do it without telling them.

Q. But if they want to be taken up as a mureed?

A. Yes, but at the same time, the moment you give an initiation, that is healing too. Then the

spiritual practices given to them: Saum and Salat every day, twenty breaths of purification,

and any words to elevate their soul. It all helps, it is all healing. It is a greater healing too. Because the

other healing is only a local healing, but this is a general healing. No doubt, the healing line is a

different line. And I think that it is just as well that those who are given to the esoteric line must keep

their concentration on this line. Because if you give more time to the healing, then your work is

delayed. There is much to think about teaching work, isn’t it? Much to be thought about. And if one

gives one’s thought to healing work, then that much time is taken away. And if I had thought that

healing was your work, then I would have sent you in the healing work.

Q. If someone came and asked to be initiated, and if he were interested only from a physical

point of view; if he thought more of his body than of his soul?

A. If first they think of their body, then next they think of their soul. I do it just the same. Among

hundred mureeds I make, nearly fifty there are who have come for the healing. Many of them

without a special healing are helped as soon as they begin to practice their practices.

Q. Perhaps not a good ……………. to be taken up!

A. Even as a mureed it is a blessing; it is just as well.

Q. Must you never refuse a person who wants to become a mureed?

A. Never refuse him. But at the same time the organization can only allow a person to be a

member. The organization cannot impose upon an initiator to initiate anyone. As members

they are not entitled to initiation at all. As members they come into the Movement, and they are

members of the Movement. To be initiated, it is only the Grace of God and it is the pleasure of the

initiator. If the initiator is pleased to accept him, as an initiator, he may; and if he refuses, the

organization has nothing to say about it.

Q. People want to be initiated only by you.



A. Very often people have bad habits. Bad habits must be cured. It is a bad habit. Because

Murshida Green has seen how in England some mureeds were very spoiled. There was a

great difficulty to get them to work. They were accustomed to work with Murshid, and they would not

work. And it took a great deal of time.

Q. ……

A. The initiators become conscious of this fact that Murshid gives them the power of initiation.

And they must feel in their own spirit the spirit of Murshid. They must not think they are

themselves. They must think Murshid’s spirit is working through them. And by Murshid’s spirit they will

convince the person who comes, and they will take the initiation quietly. Remember, the one who

refuses the initiator of the Sufi Movement, to be initiated by him, I will not accept him; because he has

refused me in another form.

Q. If we think you are coming to England and if they specially desire to be initiated by you?

A. The idea is this. That at certain times I can be in the initiation ceremony when I am there. But

it must not be arranged, it must not be encouraged that they must be initiated with my hand.

When I am in England or in France, naturally there will come some people that we can have a meeting

of initiation, that I can assist in that meeting. I can do one thing, give the blessing, or something. That

is all. Because it is a matter of habit. If you give them, they will always have that habit, they will always

take it.

Q. There is no objection, but there is a wish?

A. Then there can be one thing or another thing arranged. They may be given initiation, and

when Murshid comes, Murshid can give them the blessing. So they have received something.

If you present him those who are newly initiated, after their initiation, then that can be done.

Q. Is it the wish of Murshid that all those mureeds come together at one time? Try to have them

together all at once? There are many now in Switzerland who would like to have the blessing.

A. That is very good, certainly.

Q. Then sometimes I have the feeling some are perhaps very high souls, that I do not dare to

take them in myself. So I am trying to keep their interest in the meantime.

A. The thing is this: do not say about it. The best thing is you must know that Murshid is giving

them initiations, giving them blessing through you. You must not think you are giving it.

Murshid is giving. Then it is all right, no matter who it is. That must be always the spirit.

Q. I never say I am Representative. Is that right?

A. In the formula it is said. So the thing is to realize it in one’s own heart, that Murshid is giving

the initiation. Not to say it because the others think you will be stronger now. There is a story

of Sham Tabriz, the story of healing. That Shams Tabriz was called to heal the son of a king, who

was ill. And Shams Tabriz was so to speak the king of healers at that time. The greatest power that

man can possess was of Shams Tabriz. And he said, because all the religious authorities were

standing there, the priests, and Shams Tabriz came to save their lives, because the king was a cruel

one, and had little faith in religion and he said that, “If you all priests have no power to cure this man, I

will cut off your heads and give up the religion.” So they thought that, “Even if we died it is not so bad,

but if the king gives up the religion the whole country will become degenerated, that would be worse.”



So they went to find a godly man, and they found Shams Tabriz, the Murshid of Rumi. Shams Tabriz

came there and saw all the priests standing in helplessness. So he looked at the prince and said,

“Awake, by the power of God.” But this boy did not awake. And then he came in his realization, and

said, “Awake, by my command.” And the prince awoke.

The explanation that Rumi gives about it is that Shams Tabriz was a man when he said, “Awake by

the power of God”. Then he was different from God; he was a man, his power was limited as man’s

power is limited. But the time then Shams Tabriz said, “Awake by my command”, at that time he and

God were not two. He was realizing at that time, “This is not Shams Tabriz, this is God Himself.” And

there the prince arose. But the king was against the religion. So he brought up an objection. He said,

“Then is the power of God of no use? Is this against religion or not?” They said, “Yes, it is against

religion.” “Then”, he said, “he must be flayed.” Then Shams Tabriz was flayed. So after he did that

healing he was flayed. It says that when Shams Tabriz walked from there, insects entered his flesh

because it was not covered by skin. When an insect would fall, then he would take it is his hand and

put it in his body. He said, “Here is the food made for you. Partake of it. It is your food.” He was

feeding them. That is called Nirvana. When Buddha has said Nirvana, that is Nirvana. It is the proof of

it. It is not only an intellectual realization of the soul being all, but it is the realization, actual realization,

that the soul is all. For him the insects eating other food is just the same as they eat his flesh. Because

for him the plants, the trees, the rocks, the mountains, all is his own body, as much his own body is his

own. That is the stage of Nirvana.

Q. Because in truth body is only a covering of the soul?

A. That is the thing. The body is nothing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



23.6.26 Thought-reading 1

Wednesday

This evening I would like to speak on the subject of thought reading; that thought reading is practiced

by two principal exercises. One exercise is to focus one’s mind on the thought of another in a

receptive attitude; and another exercise is to get into an active rhythm that would create a fineness in

the physical body influencing the centers, the nervous centers, to be open. It is the practice of

concentration which enables man to focus his mind. The one who cannot concentrate cannot focus

one’s mind to the thought of another.

The mind is likened to a plate, a photographic plate, and it must be kept open that the impression of

another person’s thought may fall upon it. That makes the impression.

Mind reading can also be looked at from one’s everyday experience; that in our everyday life at such

moments when we catch without intention the thought of another are such moments when our mind is

open, when our mind is not occupied with any other thought, when our mind is in a passive, negative,

respondent condition. As we catch the thoughts of others in our daily life, so we catch the thoughts of

others in our dream. It is easier to catch the thought of others in the dream than in the wakeful state,

because in the state of dream our mind is naturally focussed; in other words, the mind easily becomes

focussed, automatically; if the mind has the habit of concentration, then the thought of others is taken

from distances in the dream. When the mind is focussed and is open to impressions, the thought of

another comes as a reflection just like a reflection falling on a mirror. One might ask: “When we are

not intending particularly to catch the thought of another, what does our mind do at that time?” At that

time our mind is occupied with something or the other; it is incapable of taking reflections of others

when it is occupied with other thoughts. But when the mind is absolutely blank, then the mind is open;

when the mind is absolutely blank, then it is open to impressions which fall on it.

And now one might ask what do I mean by opening the nervous centers. In the first place I mean that

a person must be more ethereal rather than more dense. A dense person is naturally incapable of

receiving, for the reason that his nervous centers are blocked. It is therefore that mostly those who

have the gift of clairvoyance are nervous people, in other words their body is less dense, their body is

finer. It is necessary to have a body susceptible and inclined to receive the thought of another. It is

also necessary that one must be so concentrated that one can focus well on the mind of another. And

with all this it is necessary that one must be in any way inclined to get the thought of another. If there

is no inclination, then with all capability it is impossible, because inclination has a great force in it. By

being inclined I don’t mean one must be anxious, or that one must force oneself to get the thought of

another; by inclination I mean one must whole-heartedly engage one’s mind in receiving the thought of

another.



Q. Would you explain to me this instance. I traveled with someone. We were sitting for three

hours opposite to one another. The air got very close. I always have the habit of taking my hat off; the

other person did not. I looked at him and thought, “Put off your hat, it is bad for your hair to keep it on.”

He took off his hat. I thought, “You exhaled.” I would like to know if breath is necessary to it?

A. Yes, it is. The breath is a bridge that can connect two spirits. And by the connection of breath,

sometimes automatically there comes a connection especially when two persons are sitting

opposite one another it is more likely that breath becomes one. The moment the breath

becomes one, the positive mind – that means the active mind – at that time impresses

thoughts on the negative mind, and the negative mind received it. Perhaps you have read in

the Bible there is a place where the breath is inhaled. In the Old Testament very often the

breath is spoken of. And that is a great phenomenon, really speaking, because the breath

takes with it the knowledge that the spirit has.

Q. It is said of one of the Prophets, Elijah, that he stretched himself three times over the body of

the child who had died. What is the meaning of stretching himself all over the body of the

child who had died? A. Stretching oneself is only extending one’s breath, not the body. It only means that he

extended, projected his breath upon him. Breath is a stretching too, a wonderful stretching.

Q. You spoke of the nervous centers. Are they the same centers as the chakras?

A. Yes; it is therefore that nervous people are more ethereal very often, and that ethereal people

are more nervous. It is a nervous temperament which takes interest in the higher pursuits.

Q. When the thought vibrations come to a person, does first the mind take the vibrations, or do

first the centers catch the vibrations?

A. On the chakras it comes afterwards. First it is reflected in the mind. But if the chakras are not

open, then it has not become clear to the body. When it is not clear to the body, then it is sub-

conscious. It becomes conscious when mind is reflected to the body. And when the body is

not conscious of it, then it is called sub-conscious. Then one is conscious and yet not

conscious.

Q. Sometimes we remember the thought of other later.

A. There is a very good simile now attached to the inventions of new telephones. If you

telephone and the person is not there, then the telephone keeps a record when the person is

not there. When he comes home, he goes to the telephone, which gives the message. Mind

is exactly like that. Mind is not conscious but keeps the record, and some day or the other it

speaks. Now, for instance if a person has a bad thought about another or a favorable thought

about another, it has not reached that person immediately. When they saw each other, they

spoke very nice, kind words. But then after that person has gone home, after a week, or a



month, or a year, that thought will come to this person. He has received it; he does not know

it, but the thought is there, the bitter thought is there, and this person will know it just the

same. Persons apart, even animals can feel thoughts. And sometimes by a thought either a

plant can grow or it will die by the power of thought.

Q. Is the thought always brought by the breath?

A. Mostly it does, yes. Breath has much to do with the thought. For instance, a person who is

sitting in front of you, that person is more capable of receiving your thought than the other

person, because it is the breath current. But then also it depends upon the direction of

breath. Sometimes the breath is going upwards, sometimes downwards, sometimes to the

right, sometimes to the left, sometimes straight forward; and therefore the direction is not

always the same.

Q. I looked at horses, and I saw that good horses’ breath was upwards, and bad horses’ breath

was downwards.

A. Human being is such a horse that his breath goes all sides. It is a different kind of horse.

Upwards and downwards, to the right and left, below and above, all directions. It is a different

horse.

Q. Would you kindly explain, is this a question of breath? Once I made an appointment with a

friend to meet him at the station. He was going to a wrong street. I saw him standing on the

tram going too far, with his back towards me. I ran after the tram and missed it. I tried to

catch his attention; I looked at him, and then he turned around. A. Your breath tickled him. Besides that, at the back of a person there is a center, and that

center is very sensitive. When this center is touched by the breath, a person fees the thought

influence of the other.

Q. It puzzles people very much, how is it to be explained that a person who is put in a deep

trance, quite an illiterate person, that he can speak languages which he never heard of, which

he had not learnt in his youth. Have we got every knowledge in our sub-conscious that, if

one is put in a trance, it manifests? A. No. The whole thing is that if one is put in trance, the boundary of the limitation of his

individuality is removed. When the boundary is removed, then in his soul the whole sub-

conscious mind – that means the Divine Mind – does reflect. And therefore he can get all the

knowledge.

Q. Will you please explain once more what the relation is between our mind and the Divine

Mind. Is our mind a part of the Divine Mind?

A. Yes. Divine Mind is the stream of the fountain, and our individual mind is just like a drop. But



each stream of the fountain is connected with the stem of the fountain, is it not so? The stem

is one, and so our minds are just like different streams of one principal stream of the

fountain. The principal stream of the fountain is Divine Mind, and each of the various streams

are our minds. Therefore in this way we are connected with the Divine Mind.

Q. When a soul dives deep, does he then reach the Divine Mind?

A. The deeper he dives, the nearer he comes to the Divine Mind.

Q. I thought we ought to still the mind.

A. Yes, that produces the tendency to focus, and it is the stillness of the mind which is

concentration. The concentration is given to still the mind.

Q. How must one change one’s rhythm to open the nervous centers?

A. Well, if one rudely says, one can say, by being excited. But that is not the proper explanation.

The Sufis have different means to do it, such as Zikar. By Zikar one tunes oneself to a

condition which is similar to excitement. It is not an excitement in the ordinary sense of the word, yet it

is an excitement of nervous centers just the same. By Kasab, by other exercises, by Fikar, it changes

the rhythm of the body and of the nervous system. As it is said in the English language, highly strung,

too nervous – that means an instrument which is tuned to a higher pitch. It is by tuning oneself to a

higher pitch that naturally one opens the centers. For instance, the instrument of gut, the violin, by

tuning the string to a higher pitch means opening the string just the same. It opens some part of the

string. The more it opens , the higher sound it makes.

Q. Is it desirable to make oneself highly strung in this way?

A. By this practice one produces it, and yet one produces it in a normal, in a spiritual form. If not,

a highly strung person is either nervously ill or on the verge of a nervous breakdown, or

something else.

Q. Why did you say that inclination has a great force in it?

A. Inclination is will power, and that brings about the desired result.

Q. Is it allowed to be very anxious to know other people’s thought?

A. Well, if one is anxious to know other people’s thought, in the first place he has no value of his

time; everyone has so much to think about, different things, that he may just as well not think

about other persons’ thoughts. But at the same time, in order to practice, one may practice it.

For instance, there is a person who earns, and there is a person who robs. One can go and

rob another person’s thought, and that is not right. Whenever we make an attempt to know

another’s thought, it is robbing. If one earns, it is another thing. What is earning? For

instance, many people come to me; they are desirous to tell me something and they cannot



tell, and they would be most thankful if I could tell them, if I knew without them telling me.

And at that time this is most useful. Besides this, if you are developed in that way, without

your trying or wanting to know another person’s thoughts, you know them. In the East, when

you go to see a person, and then for you to think you must go somewhere else, it is an insult.

Perhaps in the West also. Once I went to my Murshid: I had some engagement somewhere. I

just thought about that engagement. At once my Murshid said, “Yes, it is all right.” They

don’t need to read a person’s thought; it is there.

Q. Very often we know the thought of another and we do not read it.

A. Well, that is reading in this case. Reading and knowing is one thing. Because the reading of

the thought and the reading of the book are two things. When you read a book, you read from

the first line to the last page. When you read a thought, it all comes as one page, printed at

once. It is all at once expressed without reading from the first to the last. It comes in quite a

different sense.

Q. I mean there is not the will to do it.

A. But I think it would be very unjust if a person thought, I should read the mind of another

person, whether a person is favorably inclined to me or not favorably inclined to me, or

wishing to empty my pocket. If one always felt that way, in the first place one will become

selfish; in the other way, it is just like examining other people’s pockets. It is worse than that.

Q. How can this be understood, we imagine a house. Now this thought must be reflected in the

centers. Is there some capacity in the brain in which a picture is made of the house?

A. Yes. It is not a picture in the sense that we understand it is made, but a sort of impression

which the actual physical cells have got from the mind and that makes it more intelligible to

us. For instance, I thought of a lion and you don’t know it, and I think that you must know of

the lion, and I hold in my mind the lion and think that you must know about it. The first thing is

that it comes in your sub-consciousness. By that it will not be known to you; it will only be

known to you when your mind is reflected on your brain cells, and on the brain cells the same

picture is then intelligible. For instance, first you will get the feeling of a lion, if I held a lion

before you. The first thing you will have is the feeling of the lion, the strength of the lion, the

horror of the lion, the tendency of the lion, the courage of the lion; everything that belongs to

the lion will come to you in the form of feeling; not in a concrete form. When your mind reflect

itself on your brain cells, the lion will become an intelligible thought to you. Therefore in order

to make a thought concrete, mind acts as well as body.

Only, in sleep it is more convenient for the mind to reflect upon anything, because the senses are not

occupied with the things outside when the eyes are closed. When a person is sleeping, the mind is



free to think on any thought exclusively. But when the senses are occupied or invited by outside

things, that we see and hear … Therefore mind has not in a wakeful state so much chance as in a

dream. Very often all day long a person may go on doing things, and yet make a thought which is not

concrete. But then at night, when a person is asleep, then that thought becomes concrete.



25.6.26 Instruction papers

Friday

ABOUT PRACTICES

Today I will speak about reading the instruction papers. While reading the instruction papers for those

who are sent to you, explain everything to the person’s satisfaction. But two considerations must be

made: one thing is that you explain to his satisfaction, the other that you do not explain to a sleeping

person so much that he may wake up. Because if he wakes too soon he will be difficult. Better that he

sleeps till the time for waking. The practices are given to him to prepare him for the waking, and if you

read him the instruction anxiously to satisfy his curiosity and to convince him, perhaps your

explanation will finish him. He thinks he no more requires the practices, the explanations are quite

sufficient and he will never come again. These are two opposite considerations.

20 BREATHS OF PURIFICATION:

In explaining the 20 breaths of purification observe the following points:

a) breath must be rhythmic

b) the rhythm of breath must not differ too much from the natural rhythm; a little slower.

c) the thought must be repeated with each in- en exhaling. It is: I inhale divine light and life.

And with exhalation: I radiate divine life and light.

d) tell the person that from the air he draws the essence of light and life and love, and that he

radiates it.

That is the point to begin with, because for an ordinary person space means nothing. That is where

your convincing comes in. There will come a day when he will reach to the highest understanding; one

day he will realize that all, that earth, water, fire and air are phenomenon of the space, that they all

spring from the space. All merge with the space. And what was, is and will be is the space. In this way

in the very first lesson you give a spark of the highest philosophy, at the same time you do not explain

too fully. For instance, if you explain more about the space, one who is not ready will say, “If space is

everything, then there is no God, then there is nothing in the space, then the space is nothing also”.

Once I found a person most disappointed when I explained to him a little more about God. In the end

he said, “If I had known that this was your God, I never had come to you; for the God I believed in was

a different God. To follow your God means to become quite a heathen”. I said, you are quite right and I

was wrong. I realized the wrong and I never committed it again. Never give the idea to the person who

is not ready for it. Wait, and when the time comes, he will take it.

After the 20 breaths the healing prayer may be given. If the healing prayer is not on the paper do not

add it. There is always a tendency to try to do more good. Like a generous chemist might add to the

prescribed medicine and easily do harm. I often do not prescribe the healing prayer, the reason is

either that he does not need it or that by temperament he is not suited for the prayer, or that he has



not yet come to the understanding of prayer, cannot value it. The 20 breaths will prepare him for one

day appreciating the prayer.

The 20 breaths must be practiced early in the morning, the first thing before breakfast. Why early in

the morning? Because we can draw from the space more than at any other time. The space has more

to give before sunrise than after, because then the sun occupies the space. Before the sun has risen,

the Prana in the space is there in abundance and you can draw it more easily. Therefore sages prefer

early morning for breathing practices.

WAZIFA:

When Wazifa is given to a person you must ask him to repeat as many times as written, no more, no

less, exactly like a doctor’s prescription. Often people benefited by it do more, or they think less will

do. Also that repeated so many times makes it mechanical, it is not like a prayer. They do not know

that the law behind the whole universe is mechanical and the law of the whole cosmos is

mathematical, and by doing this the spirit accomplishes something. Exactly like the physician

prescribes a certain dose, so much no more, to produce the deserved effect. Don’t be surprised if you

find 500 times on one paper, 100 on another, 20 times on the third; according to the condition of the

person, to his need in life, they are prescribed.

THE PHRASES:

Sometimes they are said 5, sometimes 20, sometimes 100, sometimes the number is not said, then

once. Why before and after meals? In the first place by meals you remember, because food is the first

we remember, you cannot remain hungry. The other reason, the inner, is different, it is that food is

assimilated by the body, therefore it is the same when done by the mind. Any thought taken before

and after a meal is assimilated by the mind because the action of the spirit is assimilating at the same

time. Whatever you may think or say at the time is assimilated. Therefore the wise in the east have the

rule not to speak during meals, not before and after. There are others who especially speak at the time

of food, they think that is the best time.

EXTERNAL ZIKAR:

External Zikar is of two kinds. One the pointing with the fingers, making the cross with the fingers. It

must be like holding a pen in the fingers and while doing it slowly the person must repeat: “This is not

myself, this is the Temple of God”. If one does it with one finger it is not right, only half done. This

action is negative and positive. It is therefore that the blessing in church is given with two hands,

negative and positive, both show perfection. The same with this, two fingers complete the figure.



External Zikar is with the glance. Horizontal first, raise the head perpendicular high; while doing it

repeat the same; always whispering, need not aloud. Some use an hour for hundred times; that is not

necessary. Not so slow that it tires, also not too quickly that it is finished in 5 minutes. Zikar 1 is manly.

Zikar 2 is womanly.

CONCENTRATION:

Any figure, say the five-pointed star, given must not only be seen as a figure but as a luminous star

shining in the form of light.

SAUM AND SALAT:

When prescribed twice: in the morning and evening; the last thing after all practices and with

movements. There are two movements, one standing, another kneeling. I would be very glad if you all

know both forms. The first is that one we all make in the elevation ceremony. But there is another and

that must be learned thoroughly. It is very important that the movements in Saum and Salat must be

uniformly in all countries. Therefore they must be carefully taught. In the world of Islam, many million

people, all movements are the same. And no one can say that they have no form, for the form is

printed in the booklet, both kinds. And if we each one make an effort to help every Sufi member to do

them rightly, it can be done.

Often a person is puzzled of the idea of movement because he never did such a thing before. Has he

been in masonry he may understand that movements have some importance, or in the Catholic

church, where at least the priest does the movements, so to him it is of some importance. But one who

comes straight form the Protestant church, for him the idea of movement is very difficult. A thoughtful

person perhaps does not criticize, but he does not feel the need of it. But is it the same? Now I am

speaking to you with gestures and if you heard my voice in the phonograph telling you the same thing,

do you believe it would be the same? The movement completes the meaning, which without it would

be incomplete.

The movement completes the meaning, which without it would be incomplete. There is a certain

impression which only movement can make. What is prayer? It is nothing outward, not something

before us, but within us. Just as our voice makes an impression upon ourselves, so our movements

have an effect also on ourselves. Thought is completed by words, words are completed by gestures.

These three things make an idea complete; besides these movements are magic. The early Christians

knew it and used different movements in their payers. Arabs and Hindus also. To say, “we must be

motionless because it is so serious”, then you must not only be motionless, but thoughtless, not even

think because it limits. Perhaps it is more spiritual neither to move, nor think or speak. If movements

were meaningless then the different religions would not have taught them. The Brahmins would have



been the first to stand against it, because they are meditative people. They stand in a position for

many hours, many days. History says that Shiva stood in one position for 12 years, never sat, never

slept, but continued to stand. If it were thus, then they are the people who would have objected first.

They the right who can stand for 12 years, they have the right t say movement is nothing.

We are moving from morning till evening for our daily bread. For us movement is everything. But in

explaining all these things we must be very careful about people’s susceptibility. For one who comes

for the first time is like a piece of clay that has not gone through the test of fire. You may just touch him

and he will break. You may just have said one word than you would have said and that has spoiled

everything. One must know intuitively, be very delicate in handling a new person. One who has been a

member for a long time is different. He is accustomed to us. If he does not like something he will have

patience, he knows us, he is our friend.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q. If one has concentrated on a certain form and you do not see the form but you see a certain

color?

A. You see the color, that is objective. That is not physical, but that is the ethereal plane, that

has no connection with your concentration. Suppose you are thinking of the moon, and the

sun was rising. You were thinking of the moon and the sun comes out from behind the clouds. That

does not mean that it should take away your thought from the moon, because it is the work of your

thought to think of the moon. It was the time of the sun to come. You have called the moon from your

thought, and the sun has come because it is its time. At the same time the color comes, because it is

the time. It is a certain condition which brings the color, but the work of your mind is to bring before

you a particular form, because if you see a color, it is a phenomenon of the ethereal plane, it has

nothing to do with the thought, it has to do with the condition of the spirit. It is your own self, your own

breath, which has formed into a color.

Q. In the healing prayer, is it always to be said after the twenty breaths?

A. Yes, if it is in the instruction, that is the best time. It is always best afterwards.

Q. Last year you spoke about when somebody wants to bring something about. For instance, to

call a person. You could combine it with Zikar, that a master of Zikar could do this.

A. Yes, but it is better not to call anybody by the power of Zikar. The Zikar must not be used for

anything else. Zikar must only be used for one purpose, that is: this is not my body, this is the

temple of God, to establish that thought deeper in oneself; only for that purpose, for no other purpose,

because as soon as we use it for another purpose, then we go in another line. The thing is this: one is

pulled back from the spiritual path if one uses spiritual powers for any other purpose. No purpose,

however good that purpose seems to be.

Very often people tell me that they say, “Murshid, you can show me some way that I can have the

money that I want. I will give my whole life to the Sufi Movement if I only had the money that I want.”



Well, I tell them, “If by power you get the money, instead of that I would put that power in getting the

Message spread”. The idea is that money is gained in a certain way. The best thing is to gain it in that

way. But if we say, “I shall gain it in another way”, then he has, no doubt, stopped his progress

spiritually. But no doubt, as Christ has said, “Seek the kingdom of God first and all will come to you, all

will be added”. That is quite true. By going in the spiritual path everything you want will come by itself.

You have only to want it, and it will come. But you must not want it by spiritual power. We are human

beings, there are times when we say, “Yes, I want a comfort”, or “money”, or something else. It is

needed and that need comes, and you do not think because…………………….. thinking, it must come

automatically. Think that it comes. But apart from all that, I wish to tell you that it would not be an

exaggeration if you really need it, it is given to you, whatever you need. Very often people say, “I need

this”. They do not know the thing they need. A person who needs anything he gets it. The need itself is

so powerful, it draws anything you need, but if you really need it. Very often when we say “I need it”,

we just say it. To need it is different, and to say it is different. Then how shall I need it? You cannot by

an effort or intention. Need must come by itself, “O need, come to me !” I want to need something. The

need is there, it is the condition. Yes, one fancies, “If I had this, it would be very good”. It is not a

condition, it is a way one ……….

But that is not need, that is a fantasy. Sometimes one feels, “Oh, if I had that money !” Even that is not

need. It is a deep fantasy. Where there is a need, the answer is there.

Q. We must not pray then?

A. Praying is right. The less things you want the better it is.

The children were very interested in the candle in the Cherags’ class. So each came to me

and said, “We want to make a wish”. Each one so eager to make a wish, and yet one of them knew

what wish to make. They asked everyone what to wish. One says, “Shall I ask for something?”

Another says, “Shall I ask for something else?” After going there they perhaps made impossible

wishes, and then came back and said, “Our wishes did not come”. I said, “You must really wish it”. I

said, “You cannot wish, the wish must come by itself, and when the wish comes by itself, then the wish

is there. There is a wish and there is the answer for every person. God is not so cruel as one thinks,

that we have all such pains and lacks and needs in life, that we do not get what we wish; there is a

great cruelty from the other side. There is no cruelty. It is a kind of lack on our part, because either we

are contented with things or we do not long for things or we do not need them properly. That means

that our mind says, “Yes, I would like to have something, but that is not sufficient”. “I would like” is not

sufficient.

Q. A person who is ill for years and wishes to get better.

A. Yes, he wishes it, but he gets accustomed to his illness. He wishes it only from the mind. That

contentment that has to come to him, that stands against illness always, because if a person

gets accustomed to the illness, every day he says, “Well, perhaps I shall be well. Now I can stand it

better”. He puts his mind in different things. The illness is there, the thought is somewhere also. He

wants to keep away his thought from the illness. In that way he rises above illness and the illness is



there. That is the automatic action. But if the person has thought of health, a continual thought, then

illness cannot stand, because he does not give place to the illness.

You see, illness comes by us giving it a place. We welcome it, not knowing that we welcome it. We get

friends with it, we get accustomed to it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



28.6.26 The attitude of the mureed

Monday

The wrong attitude of a mureed.

I would like to say a few words on the wrong attitude of a mureed, because that is the one time when

the initiator is most tested.

The half test of the initiator is when a person asks to be initiated and the initiator knows that this

person will not do. But in that place the initiator has some little facility. In our particular Sufi Order it is

difficult for the initiator to refuse anyone, whoever comes; and however much difficulty the initiator may

find with anyone, it is difficult for the initiator to refuse him. But in the Sufi schools in the world it is not

difficult for the initiator. He simply says, “I am sorry, I will not take you”; because they have the

esoteric school, we have a movement. We cannot refuse a person who comes to us; they can. But

when one finds that it is most unwise to take a person whose influence will spoil the mureed, in that

case we may also refuse the person, saying that, “Please wait till your period of probation is finished.”

And naturally a person who is not fitting for the initiation will not have patience enough to wait.

But when a person is initiated and then he begins to show himself, that is a still more difficult position.

And it is not necessarily that the initiator has not known him before; but very often the initiator's

compassion, sympathy, optimism, his hope will accept him. The greater the initiator the more he will

risk difficult mureeds, but at the same time he ought to be conscientious that the mureed who is not

yet ready to be trusted with good practices must not be given those practices. Even after the initiation

he must be trained and tested and tried till you have found that that person is now ready to be given

the practices; but if you saw that he is not ready, then to let him wait. In the end he will lose his

patience and leave. Waiting is the greatest test, no one can wait except the faithful. You can put no

greater test in the way of giving service or putting a burden on him and giving him responsibility; what

he will not do is: he will not wait. But then again, the power of the initiator must work all time. He must

turn a pebble into a diamond, slowly, but in time; and must maintain the hope of helping a person. But

to maintain a hope and to persevere with a person is one thing, and to trust a person who is unripe

with practices is another thing. The first is strength, the other is weakness. It is the work of the initiator

to persevere and to go on with patience - it does not matter how long, for our service is for eternity,

there is no limit to the time we have at our disposal - and to persevere sincerely, without being

annoyed with an unsuitable person; because our duty to that person is much greater than to those

who are fitting. Yes, we have not only our work of initiating and training individual, but we have the

work of the Movement that must have also a consideration, that a bad influence must not be spread

among the others. To keep that influence separate, and to work with him just the same. If not, while

we are trying to improve one person, perhaps twenty persons are spoiled by that influence and that

will not be desirable. To keep that person apart and to work with him, because that is the initiator's



enterprise; to work with the most difficult object, hard-subject, and to try to turn out of him something

really worth while. Never to be hopeless about it, and yet keep him separate.

And now there is another situation one often meets, and that is a mureed is not inclined to do the

exercises given to him. But this is not a serious matter. If the mureed has a good feeling, a desire to

progress, respect for his Teacher, sympathy with his fellow-mureeds, wishes for the spreading of the

Cause, only, because of his pressure of work or some other reason, he cannot do the practices, that

does not matter. The initiator must not allow such a thing to trouble him, and yet he must continually

bring to the ears of the mureed that the practices are the most valuable thing in the world. Not to

command that it must be done - if not, the very command will spoil the whole thing - but to bring

before him the benefit of it, and to convince him again and again of the importance and value of

exercises. It is this which will pick him up. I have seen that after my patience of many, many years that

the mureed did not do practices then there has come a day that he is quite wakened to the importance

and value of it and he began doing them, and it is never too late.

It is very necessary also that mureeds must be warned; instructed, that they must not discuss practi-

ces with their fellow-mureeds. And, even, it cannot be too strict if the initiator says to husband and wife

not to speak about their practices to each other; because in the spiritual things the relation of each is

towards God. Neither the husband has the power, nor the wife to give her practices to the husband. Of

course, in the case where the wife or the husband is advanced in the Order, then he, or she, may help

the other; but if they are beginning, and both have different practices, by their discussing with one

another they may spoil it. So if there is such a strict rule, it must be observed by friends. Mureeds,

even, often discuss among themselves, and wrong ideas spring out of discussion, and the things

which should be kept secret and sacred are talked about everywhere.

There are mureeds who will overdo all you give them. They like it so much that they want to do it twice

or thrice. It is like taking the doctor's prescription three times over. It can be of the greatest

disadvantage. The practices done too many times can wreck their nervous system and can produce

all sorts of difficulties in their lives. They must be warned, therefore, - do the practices exactly as

given. If they did less, it does not matter; if they did more it matters.

Then about self-discipline. Some mureeds think that it is a good thing to fast all day long, other

mureeds think that it is a good thing to fast for three or four days. They prescribe for themselves. But

mureedship is not for that. When there is an initiator and the mureed, then the mureed must consult

with the initiator whether it is good or not. Fasting is very good, but not always a virtue; sometimes it

proves to be a disadvantage, without having taken the advice of the initiator. Besides, when a person

fasts without accomplishing anything, what is the use of such fasting? It only weakens. There are

many such things that in order to make a self-discipline, they prescribe themselves. It shows neglect

of the initiator when the mureed prescribes himself self-discipline.



And now there is a very delicate and difficult question. That question is that certain mureeds will come

and ask the initiator to give them advice on their delicate home affairs. And the initiator thinks that it is

his sacred duty and he thinks that the mureeds come with the desire of being guided by the initiator,

he must tell them. And if they are not trained in proper manner and thought, what do they do

sometimes? They go and speak to the others about it. And then, sometimes, if things go wrong, they

blame the initiator. And in that way, by trying to do good to someone, the initiator gets the blame, and

a blame of a serious kind. If there are people in the home, all turn against the initiator; and that means

the blame comes upon the whole Movement. While the initiator has tried to do his best, trying to take

interest and give thought to their well-being and welfare and give them wise advice; perhaps the home

has not understood it; and yet he is placed in the most delicate position; and when a mureed goes

against the initiator he can turn the whole family, the whole community against. And therefore in this

question one must be very extremely delicate. One must know and analyze and study the mureed tho-

roughly in order to give one advice on his personal life. But one might think that, if you see that the

person is not desirable and he asks a question pertaining to his homelife, his personal affairs, what

must we do? I say that it is better to say that, your affairs are your own, you are responsible for them.

Our work is to light the torch and to illuminate the path, and it is the work of your own eyes to see your

way. We must not give you eyes; as long as we have lighted the path, that is quite enough for you to

take a step. In this way the initiator can protect himself. And since our Movement has a world service

before it, for us it is most difficult, because we can have many enemies; whereas an individual

Teacher, whose work is with a certain school, he can have enemies, but he will not have so many

enemies. But then there are others who you think are most anxious to hear the words of your

guidance and who value it and do consider it secret and most sacred, in that case you may give them

some advice. But I shall repeat again that when you can say without saying, that is the best.

Q. I think, Murshid, that most of the mureeds coming with their little personal affairs, that

is the first thing that they will ask. They do not ask for their soul, first, they ask, “What shall we

do; we have difficulties here and there.” If we send them back, will they come back to ask other

questions? Can we not take them in this way to go on the spiritual path?

A. That is always the problem. That among one hundred mureeds who come to be

initiated, there is hardly one who comes to have spiritual attainment. But ninety-nine come with

a certain problem. And as Madam Meyer says: “Shall we take then the way that they are coming?” I

say, “Yes, if you feel confident in yourself that you can guide them so that you don’t commit. (…?)

Then it is all right.” But as soon as you guide them in the way that you have committed yourself, then

there is always a danger, a risk, because it does not take a mureed to turn after four days. Very often

it happens…….

Q. What can one do if a person is initiated and still there is a great difficulty all around

her? Must one keep her just the same? If she turns all people against the person who is at the

head? If she makes all sorts of difficulties in the Movement, still guide her is very difficult.

A. Well, as to the guiding, I say we must continue to guide. It is our work.



Q. Then there comes animosity.

A. That also we don’t need to think about. However much animosity comes, let it all

come. We can drink it all, just like Shiva drank poison, it can be done. The difficult part is this,

where the greatest difficulty comes, and that is where the teacher’s intelligence is tested, that the

teacher works without committing himself. If that tendency is developed, then it is all right to guide

them, direct them, advise them, teach them and not commit yourself. But that is the most difficult thing,

that if your words are brought before ten thousand people, you can stand before ten thousand persons

and answer them what you have said. Just now I will give you an example. In Detroit: I sent a mureed

to take charge of the group in Detroit, and this mureed went. First of all she did many wrong things.

The first wrong thing of all was that she wrote that “Murshida is coming”. The first great wrong thing.

They received her as Murshida. And then Murshida Martin had to write that the word “Murshida” is

perhaps not understood by all. Well, then she said, “If I am not a Murshida, then when Murshid will

come he will turn me into a Murshida.” When I went, when I saw my mureeds, they came in rage,

some of them. He says, “What she said to my wife is quite foolish.” Then another wife comes, “What

she told my husband, since then his head has gone off.” Now I am in a terrible situation. Here I sent

this person to take charge of a new group, because this person was supposed to be a teacher in

another direction. Then she came there and brought all that difficulty. I had the greatest difficulty to

answer, to right the wrong she had done in one month’s time, the greatest difficulty. So I asked her:

“What this person says, what have you said to them?” She said, “It was just out of my sympathy that I

told them. What of it?” then I said, “Now if you are brought before a thousand persons, and this man

comes and says what you have told his wife, can you answer it before a thousand persons? If you

cannot answer it, then it is wrong. If you are able to stand up and answer before a thousand persons

what you have said, then it is all right.”

There is always a risk, and a great risk. People are sometimes quite mad. They come to you with such

devotion and desire to be guided, and when they have got your answer, then they change mood and

say, “What has she said, what has he said! It is all wrong. I have never believed in it!” So now it goes

before the third person. One must be able to see that situation beforehand.

In the end in Detroit, then I had the difficulty of getting this teacher out. That is the greatest difficulty

still. And what she had done? She had a great power of attraction1 and she attracted perhaps twenty-

five or thirty mureeds at once, new mureeds. She has a power to attract them, but afterwards

gradually they go away. But the first thing is that she says some things that attract everybody, then

people come in gatherings. If she could have worked in propaganda she could have got hundreds of

mureeds in one month. That is the person who is not good for teaching. That is the person to go in

propaganda. But as soon as you leave her in charge of teaching, she spoils. People must not know

her more than only on the platform.

1 The person in question was Mrs. Whiting Taylor



Q. There is a mureed, a very difficult person, who will always discuss everything. He has

studied too much every part of Christian religion, and when he hears something, I am careful

what to answer. He goes to professors at the university and tells them what I have spoken to him, and

discusses it with them, and then writes to me, “You are wrong”. I think I am careful …. I was glad to

hear he had found some other one ….. After a little time he came back; he asks the same questions.

How to deal with him? How shall I go on with him?

A. That is what I am saying: without committing. Another experience I had in Detroit is

also interesting to know. A mureed was given a paper of instruction. She took that paper of

instruction to be confirmed. To whom? – To the priest. The priest took it away from her. Then she

began to cry her eyes out. She cried every night, because she was so afraid that “Murshid’s curse will

fall on me”. Then all night she would cry. She would go to the priest to beg him to give the paper

again. The priest would not give it. He said he had torn it off. “What face shall I show to Murshid?” She

went to other mureeds and told them all, and everybody knew that she had taken her instruction paper

to the priest.

Q. This person has never given the instruction paper?

A. But since our instructions are in abbreviated terms it does not matter where it goes.

But if they take words, then it is different.

Q. We have to put phrases

A. That does not matter

Q. But what about the Wazifas?

A. Only Wazifas, it does not matter. The priest does not know what it means. It does not

Matter.

Q. That mureed who gave all that trouble, did she remain, or did she go away?

A. She said, “I am very sorry that I did wrong, but I shall do right next day.” She said so

to me. But the same day she again did something wrong. Every day it went on like this. In the

end the old mureeds were very much annoyed and disturbed. They said, “The sooner you get rid of

her the better it is.” Well, I said, “Can you not help me all, if you could lift her up?” But she was

stronger than any of them, in talking, in everything. So I told her, “These people do not appreciate you

fully. I am very sorry. A king cannot reign over subjects who will not take him to be a king.” She said,

“There are only three or four, but all thirty, forty people whom I have attracted by me lectures, they

send all for me. Those who are annoyed with me are three or four.” I said, “They are the pillars of the

Movement, they are the old mureeds.” But then she said, “Then you will make me a Murshida.” That

promise she wanted before going. Well, I said, “It wants another experience. It is not this experience

which you have had.” And then I said, “Will you, you are leaving here.” She said, “Yes, I am leaving

here after ten days.” I said, “It is better to go away from here.” So that promise was taken from her,

that is all. I do not know what has been after that. It is very difficult.



Q. Can she not go on to do wrong for the Movement?

A. Yes, much damage has been done to it.

Q. Can she not continue to do?

A. Well, she is a very strange person. She has such influence with people, Murshids.

What shall I tell you; such influence.

Q. Has she gone to another place where the Movement is established?

A. She has such influence; wherever she moves people will follow her. And at the same

Time she does such foolish things.

Q. Can she not be changed?

A. No, that is impossible.

Q. I suppose she only wants to be a leader herself, or form a movement herself.

A. No, she cannot do that; she is not for that. There is much good in her; at the same time

there is quite the contrary mind. She has two minds, two persons in her. One person is

very desirable and fit for good work, for leadership; and the other mind is quite the contrary.

Q. Did she do her exercises?

A. She confessed that she never did them. It is very strange, a very strange personality.

Q. I suppose she has a very strong personality.

A. Very strong personality. Such strong personality she has that my mureeds who were

against her, when they saw her, then they were lenient to her. To one mureed she said, a very

old Mureed2. When she went to see her, she said, “You cannot be a Catholic and a Sufi at the same

time. Either give up one thing or the other.” She became very cross and said, “I am not going to come

to the Sufi Order.” When she heard that I had come she came to see me. I said, “Yes, you can come.”

Then she saw this lady again and she followed her lectures and courses and everything. Influence!

This woman was going to come to the Summer School. And you would have seen, if she had come to

the Summer School, she would have created a revolution. By the time she would walk from here to

there she would make fifty friends. When she comes back they all follow her. And then all confused, all

of them confused. Such influence! Strong influence. And at the same time undesirable.

Q. I hope she is not preparing to come.

A. Well, she was preparing to come. We cannot say to anyone, “Don’t come.” I advised

her to leave; it was a gentle advice. I do not know in how far that advice has been carried out. I

have not heard yet what she has done.

Q. She may arrive here yet!

Remark of someone: I have just received a letter this morning, that she was following Swami

Yogananda.

2 and her husband was the chairman of the Executive Committee there, the person in question was Mr. Lowe, the president in Detroit



Q. Did she call a large meeting and give a lecture?

A. Her way was such that after my lecture she spoke a few words, and then she says, “There is

going to be my lecture. I am going to speak in detail the philosophy Murshid has spoken.

Those who will come must raise their hands.” So they raised their hands, some of them. “And those

who are against my philosophy must raise their hands.” So nobody can raise their hands. No one

wished to tell. “Those who are with me must raise their hands.” So everybody raises their hands. Even

one’s friends apart, even other persons think it is unkind not to raise their hands. Then she said, “You

all say, “I am strong””. So everybody says ‘I am strong’. In that way she goes on making them get fully

acquainted with her. There is a kind of connection that is made by all these words. And then she has a

large following. Only, it does not last long. It lasts for three, four, six months. It cannot last long. Then

they find out. It is strange.

Those who have the Sufi Order in their hands, she puts them out. It is just like going to

somebody’s house and saying, “Please go out”, and they go out. They say, “She has taken it in her

charge, and told us to go out.” I told them, “But who told you to go out?” It is very strange. She first got

their help, everything. Through them she got all the other mureeds and got hold of them, and then told

them to go out.

If I have to have that experience, naturally you will have to have that experience also, sooner

or later. It is better to know them very well just the same.

Q. Is there no help against such persons?

A. We cannot call the police and put them out! It is very difficult to put them out, very difficult.

Q. One does not know directly?

A. There is a side, perhaps, in them which is a very good one.

Q. We had a case in Southampton, in the Universal Worship one evening. There was a

man who came who had been a clergyman, turned out of the Church for evil living, a man very

well known in Southampton. He came to the door, “I wish to perform the Service. I once was a priest.”

Somebody3 went out and told him that it could not be. And he persisted in coming to the Universal

Worship Service. We locked the door.

A. But we cannot always close the door.

Q. Was she wrong to close the door?

A. No, in this case it is all right. But if there is a public lecture we cannot close doors.

This time in my travelling I met many people who were eager to take up the work of the Sufi

Movement and do it. And they came in the first visit with their eagerness of doing it. But I, in spite of all

my difficulties of workers, I refused, for the very reason that the person who comes to you first day

with such eagerness, he does not know you nor your philosophy; only he has a motive to work with his

own object in view. Therefore the person may not suit. Therefore, in spite of my greatest need, deep-

felt need, to further the work in the United States, I had to refuse such people. And it becomes very

difficult.

3 Murshida Green



In Chicago a person wrote to me first, before my going there, that he was eagerly awaiting my

coming. He read all my books and studied them before my coming. But what was there? There was a

competition between the wife and the husband. The wife wanted to be the teacher; she would not let

him. He did not want her to be the teacher. So now the wife had the greater influence. Now she

wanted to become a greater teacher still. She had a little influence, he had a …….. But by nature he

was a pupil, not a teacher. So when I reached there I met this couple. This man was eagerly waiting

for me. He knew his wife was a teacher. He tried, he wanted to be one day something. He was not

made for it. But that was the idea in his mind. Well, I told him that one cannot be a teacher the first

day, one has to be a pupil. But he was very eager to be a pupil only for a week or ten days. But before

I left he wanted to be a teacher. When he found that it was not possible, then he turned quite against.

Then such difficulties sometimes arise. When he turned against, he was extremely opposed to us in

every way.

Q. What about his wife?

A. The wife, she was in the Bahai Movement. So he wanted something else for himself.

But the wife really was a good person and inclined to do this work, more suited for that.

Q. In case some person comes in a gathering, Universal Worship, or in a class or so, to

make a row, and you find that he really comes with the intention to make a difficulty, to spoil

the congregation, has one a right to put him out?

A. Well, I would try several ways to get rid of him without putting him out.

Q. Even if he spoils the lecture?

A. Yes, putting him out is a very bad thing. One must adopt some easier method and more

polite method than putting him out.

Q. If they come only with the intention to disturb?

A. It is better to do it very gently, without any show about it. For instance, when the

Service is finished, then to take him aside, “This is not something for you. Please do not come,

because your influence disturbs the congregation. You will not be welcome if you come next time.”

Q. I had it in my Service. First the telephone rang all the time. Then she was in the Service.

In the Church she stood up and said, “He will tell you most terrible things in the Service. I am

going to tell you the truth.” I asked her if she please would not come any more. “Yes, I will tell you the

truth.” I said, “This is the truth for us. We have not invited you. You will be quiet.” One of the mureeds

became so angry and began to fight. “The only question I ask you is if you kindly will not come.”

“Certainly, I am not going to come any more.” “That is the only thing I wish.”

A. I heard of a clergyman, perhaps it was in Southampton, or somewhere, that when he

felt that somebody was antagonistic in his Church, the first thing he would announce, “Anyone

who is antagonistic, please go out.” But when the person did not go out he would find out who it is,

and then say, “Will you please go out.” Of course, we must not do this. We must try our best to wait for

the chance. There are many people mentally disturbed; they like to disturb other people.





30.6.26 What is Collective Interview.

Wednesday

(See CI 6.8.26)

First of all I would like to say what Collective Interview is. Collective Interview is not a class; Collective

Interview is Murshid’s wish to speak to three or four or five of his mureeds together. If you come on a

particular day or another day or another day, that does not take you in a particular class, for it is not a

class. Only, I wish to avoid a feeling, a bad feeling, when one of you will go to the other mureeds and

will say, “What a wonderful teaching Murshid gave last evening at the last Collective Interview.”

Instead of a compliment, it will put me in a difficult situation. For they will think, “Why did Murshid not

ask us?” “Why are we not invited for a Collective Interview?” Besides that, each person thinks that he

is entitled to as much sympathy and kindness as another. They do not understand that this is neither

sympathy nor a kindness on the part of Murshid. It is as Murshid sees the need of a certain thing to be

told to a certain group; therefore he calls a certain group. Therefore, neither I like this Collective

Interview to be known to the others, nor I like recommendations to reach me, friends coming to tell me,

“Will you take this person to the Collective Interview, will you take another person to the Collective

Interview?” It takes away the fineness of my answer if I have to say no. It is too bad for Murshid to

have to say no. It is much better that such a thing may be avoided, that I may not have to say no.

There is no particular function or ceremony or ritual to be performed here, that anybody should be

called here. Instead of seeing one person whom I would like to see, I call three or four persons to see

them together. So it must not be looked at as a class, but as a Collective Interview. Instead of one I

have seen four or five persons. That is all. Please therefore remember never to speak about it to

others.

The spirit of mureeds, how much developed they are, there is always understanding wanting, very

often. There is a humorous story of a mureed who was going to Mecca, and someone, when going to

shake hands with him, found a hair of his beard on his robe. So he took it and put it in a silver box and

showed it to his friend, saying, “Look here, what a sacred thing I have got!” He said, “What is it?” “The

hair of Murshid’s beard.” “Ah, how could you get it? How much I would like to have it!” So they said to

the other people also. When they all came to Murshid, each one wanted one hair from the beard. In

the end Murshid had to go without it.

Devotion is one thing; understanding is another thing. Understanding makes people wait, when their

time is there things come by themselves. Devotion! They are very eager, devoted; they would like to

go forward, to progress .. When they are not called they are vexed. But they don’t know that if they are

not called, it is not that Murshid is not pleased, that Murshid is not anxious, not eager for their

progress. It only means everything has a time.

Now today I would like to speak on the subject of what they call psychometry.



Very often people claiming clairvoyance are supposed to know the history of an object. No doubt it

comes as a person advances spiritually. It comes by itself; you do not need to learn it. And at the

same time there is one way of developing in that direction. That way is by distinguishing between

intuition and imagination. No sooner you separate intuition from imagination then you begin to come

closer to what is called psychometry. For instance, when you look at this chair and say: its appearance

is like if it was made in the Orient. Then you go into detail and say how it is carved and how it is made,

and what is inlaid in it; all this is from the Orient, in that particular part of the country particular people

made it, a certain person used it, a certain atmosphere comes from it, a certain history I see at the

back of it. That comes from intuition. But in order to make your intuition clear, the best thing is to stop

your imagination. As soon as you mix your intuition with imagination, then psychometry is impossible.

And now I will tell you about the ordinary faculty which many show in clairvoyance. Most of them are

nervous people, and some of them quite unbalanced. And it is the very fact that they are unbalanced

that they are more clairvoyant. The reason is that either some unbalanced people have lost intuition,

and then they are imaginative and talkative. They dispute, they seem to be very intellectual, always to

dispute and argue. They seem to be very balanced, but they are unbalanced. There is another

unbalanced person who is not intellectual and yet who keeps his mind blank. By nature it happens to

be. And that blank mind functions intuition more clearly. That person begins to see the history of an

object. When this faculty is sensing from an object its history, its origin, its nature, its condition is

developed, then in the second stage one begins to sense the condition of the house. In any house you

go, as soon as you enter you feel the house; as soon as you go in a room, the room begins to talk to

you, to tell you its history, what was there, what is there now, and how it stands. And when you go still

further, then you begin to have a kind of insight into past, present and future.

There is a story of Firdousi, the author of Shah Nameh: that the Shah of Persia wanted the history of

Iran, his country, to be written. And so far there was not tradition to be had in order to make a book

like this. And a great poet whose fame was all over known in Persia, Firdousi, was attached to the

court. He said, “I will do it.” After six months or a year’s time, after he had gathered intuitively all the

records of the past, he brought the manuscript to the court. And everyone who could not understand

the possibility of getting such a record denied the truth of it. And the King, who had promised one

ashrafi for one verse (meaning one gold coin for one couplet), refused on hearing the criticism of all

the people. So Firdousi got up in the court and called one of the men who were opposing Firdousi’s

work. He put one hand on his back and said to the other man, “Now you read.” Firdousi pointed out in

the space, in the sphere. He said, “Now do you see?” All that was being read this man was seeing

actually before him. He said, “In this way I have seen; what to you is blank to me is living, for me is

going on. I look into the past, and in such condition that it is going on; it is the same process.” And

after one he got another person and another person and he showed them by their own eyes what he

saw. And then the King thought that Firdousi really deserved one ashrafi for each couplet. But when

the ashrafis were brought to be given, he refused it. He said, “No, from someone who does not know



the value I will never accept.” Then he made one verse, one word of insult; it was a slap. And then he

went. That is the book which is called Shah Nameh.

Furthermore, you might ask: something which is past is past, how can you see it? Where is it? And if it

is, it must be stand-still. All is going on. But in reality there is nothing that is past. All that is past is

working on. In the photographic plate we see that it is standing still; but in the spheres it is acting, it is

working. The sphere is such a photographic plate, where reflection falls; it is going on working in the

same way. Therefore every word we speak is going on repeating itself, every action, every

imagination, every thought; if we let that thought out, it is working on toward its desired goal.

Q. I have heard that some persons when they happen to come to a certain place where they

never have been before, they say, “How queer, I must have been here (as they say) in a

former life.” They can describe the whole surroundings exactly as they are, and they have

never been there. A. That is to be explained; either they have an insight into the past, or they have brought with

them the impression from the Djinn-sphere.

Q. Is it not true that they have been there previously?

A. Yes, in that case yes, if they have brought it from the Djinn-sphere. What the others call

reincarnation I call impression. Therefore that person has got the impression from the Djinn-

world just the same. Call it his previous experience if you will.

Q. How can it be understood that the vibrations, for instance, of a battle that has been fought in

the past, does it vibrate in the air? How is it possible that the vibrations are not scattered and

go away in all directions, but remain there on that place? A. Yes, it is because of the attachment of those persons, those persons who have done

something on a certain part of the world – whether they have fought, or drunk, or have

enjoyed their life, or lived in a place – there they have left their vibrations and their soul is

there and their soul is touching it. For instance, a living person who had been in the

Himalayas and then come back to Europe, what he experienced there and enjoyed here, and

what he liked in that sphere, that takes his soul time after time to that place. Although he is in

Europe, his soul goes time after time to that place, because he has become attached to that

place. Where one has suffered and where one has enjoyed, that is a place where the soul is

attached or bound. If the soul has enjoyed, then it is attached; if it has suffered, then it is

bound.

Q. Does the soul know it?

A. Certainly. The soul, so to speak, frequents that place.



Q. Is psychometry possible without the so-called fourth dimension?

A. Well, the fourth dimension is within ourselves. That is what I have explained. When

imagination is kept away, then that dimension is open, then comes out. What is reflected is

the mind, one is able to see it.

I have seen a dervish who used to smoke a very heavy smoke. After having smoked he used to throw

the smoke into space. And you said, “My aunt is in Bombay.” “Yes,” he said, “I have arrived at the

station of Bombay. I come there. Wonderful station. And where is the house of your aunt?” And then

he says, “It is near the fort.” “Yes, I have come to the fort now. Is it opposite the fort that your aunt

lives?” “Yes, on the third floor.” “Yes.” Then he is going on the third floor. He comes on the third floor.

He says, “Well, now there is a lady who is sitting there on the chair, sewing, is that your aunt? She

looks like this….” Everything about her this person would say. No doubt to some extent he read the

thought of this man. He asked about his aunt, he went to this man’s thought, he followed this man’s

thought, and he let this man’s thought bring him to the fort and then to the house of the aunt. As soon

as this man said “Bombay” then he said, “Now I have come to the house of your aunt.” This man then

gets the thought of the aunt’s house. He got the thought of the aunt, so he came in the house of the

aunt. And so in the mind of this person reflected the house of his aunt; he saw the aunt also. And now

he was face to face with the aunt. Now it was easier for him to see at that time what she was doing; a

little effort on his part of inspiration, and the other part is thought-reading. By these two different works

he was able to find out.

Q. When a person, for instance, when I think of London, is any vibration from that moment

there?

A. It is. As soon as you think of any place, your thought is there already.

Q. It flies through the air?

A. It flies. It just reaches in one moment’s time

Q. The vibration?

A. Yes

Q. What did you mean by saying that the vibrations are going on in the space till they reach their

goal?

A. Their goal means that everything has a certain purpose, and until the purpose is

accomplished the vibrations will go on, go on till the purpose is accomplished. Every thought

you give, you let out, that thought goes on working, working, working, till it has worked out its

destiny. In a longer or shorter time it must bring about its result.

Q. Is it on that principle that the phenomenon of memory is based? Can it last for hundreds of

years?

A. It can last even longer than hundreds of years. It only depends on what vibration it was.

Q. An accident in the mountains, when a party is killed, would it be possible that their soul is



bound to that place where they were killed?

A. Yes, that is so. They are bound; specially those who are killed are most bound to that place.

Q Not always there?

A. Yes, but you see, it depends on the impression, to what extent soul has impression on that

place.

Q. Not always there?

A. Yes, but you see, it depends on the impression, to what extent soul has impression on that

place.

Q. Is it possible that the mental part is attached there?

A. Yes, there is no doubt. But the soul is attached to the mental part.

Q. How can the soul go on towards the goal when it is bound by such an accident?

A. Yes, it has to dwell a certain time there and then after it has finished (because it will not

always be there, it will be a hundred years, two hundred years), afterwards it will be released.

Q. In that way all the haunted places can be explained?

A. Yes, that way.

Q. Sometimes I thought, how can it be tolerated by God that such terrible evil influences can

dwell in old houses? I have heard so many of those stories. There was an old castle and there

was one room with a very bad influence. And once there was a wedding; all the rooms had to

be used. There were three gentlemen and they said, “We don’t believe in that; well, we don’t

care.” They just had a nice drink and then played bridge, and they went to sleep in that room.

Next morning one was perfectly mad; the second dead on the floor, and the third squashed

between a cupboard and the wall. A. That is quite possible.

Q. Is it only sufficient that a severe murder had occurred?

A. We had, my people had, taken a house in Baroda. It was a very old house. They said it was a

haunted house. And since that house was taken, every year on a certain day of the month

there would be one death. Every year at the same time. It went on for about ten years, and then they

said that something must be done against it. Since it was done against it, then that spirit was released.

But till then every year one person died in that house. The influence can do a lot of harm in that way.

Q. The death of all these people, the spirit has to account for that?

A. Yes, just like a drunken man who has very much drink. If he looks at you favorably, the first

thing he will ask of you is to please take a glass with him. And therefore it is the friendship of



the deed who went another person to die. It is very pleasant for them. They don’t want a

person to live here on earth and enjoy himself on earth. When they are dead, they want that

person also to die. Their heart is attached to the earth. Of course that is usual. But there are

others who turn their back to the whole humanity when they die. They say, “Now our course

is different; we go forward, we have nothing to do with those who are left.” They only bless

them and wish them good life. So they are people of goodwill.

Q. Is it not that those places can be changed by prayer and meditation?

A. Yes, they can be changed if one knows how to change it. But then there are many who are

really attached. Then their condition is again different. When there is such a gulf formed as

the other side of life and the earth, then there is some kind of attraction that brings them to

the earth in a moment.

It is said that there was a man who had been to pilgrimage. He was newly married. And someone, a

mischievous man, in order to cause trouble, told in the family that the young man was dead. The

newly married wife got such a shock that she could not live any longer. She died and was cremated.

Since she was cremated, a big ball of fire would manifest always on the cremation ground. Always

every night people saw it, and they were so afraid of it. And this young man came home and heard

that she had died. So he began to go out of the house. They thought he was so much shocked that he

had almost lost his mind. They were hearing him in the house. From that time he never spoke to

anybody; he was just out of his thought. And one day he broke his chains with which they had tied

him. He ran to the grave yard. They ran after him. He went so speedily no one could catch him. Before

they could catch him he approached the fire. The fire began to circle around him; after three circles

made around him this man was brought down; and those who were coming to catch him found him

dead. The people saw the fire three times circling around him and then they found him dead. That is

something different again.

Q. In which way do the unseen influences come in contact with gross matter? For instance, a

story is told that a person is caught in the neck by a spirit. How can a spirit grasp matter?

A. His inner neck is caught, not his outer neck. But he feels that his outer neck is caught. There

is ethereal body, there is the inner body. That inner body is caught from the inner grip. But

when that inner body is caught, he outwardly thinks that his body is caught.

Q. Is it enough to make the physical body have impressions? That gives physical accident?

A. Yes, it has.

Q. A soul cannot be kept back against its will? It may be bound through that great shock, but it is

not natural?

A. Every soul is inclined to go forward. Nothing can keep it back. But that is all the work there is.

Zikar, Fikar, Kasab, Shagal, all these exercises, prayers, meditations, they help a person to



become independent of any bondage like this, that one may feel free to go forward instead of

being bound by the things of the earth.

Q. There are stories too that spirits can materialize out of space flowers.

A. But very often the case is that even the materialization of the object is an inner work. That it

is not materializing in matter as we see. It is only materialized half way, between matter and

ether.

Q. When they see out of the mouth of a medium something white, you see it rolling out, you see

it change, what is it? Cras? It has been proved, and new book has been issued in France.

Several doctors have proved that it was absolutely fair. But the white stuff from the mouth of

the medium could get a form and become as hard as wood. After taking a certain form, it

went back again in the medium. What is that? A. Well, even if the scientist, all the doctors, have proved it true, it is not necessary that from his

mouth it must have come, because it has a body of its own. Well, I should think that it is a

more hypnotic medium than something else, that they hypnotize people that they are able to

see it. There is no need of any substance coming out from the mouth.

Q. Is it often not transmission of thoughts, of one’s own thoughts in the mind of others?

Suggestion?

A. Yes, but this medium must be thinking of a river of Paradise. Because the river of Paradise

was of milk. A stream of milk flows from his mouth. Nevertheless, it is quite true that

substance can be transmuted. The invisible can be brought into visible and the visible can be

taken into invisible.

Q. There was a man; all people said he was a medium; Master Moria, and then told all terrible

things.

A. Quite possible.



2.7.26 The contact with Murshid

Friday

(SaGa II, 36,40)

I would like to speak on the subject of the contact with Murshid.

By concentration, by single-mindedness, by sympathy one can establish a contact with Murshid, when

distance would make no difference. And it is for that reason that to some, capable of concentration,

are given to contact in their thought with Murshid. The qualities of the teacher manifest after that in

the mureed. And as the mureed goes onward he feels in himself the heritage of his teacher. As if he

has inherited from the teacher the power and inspiration which would help him in the path of truth.

Many ask, can one not take the direct road to God, without the help of a teacher? I say, there is

nothing impossible. Ladder is only a means to go from the ground floor to the upper floor. But if one

can climb without a ladder it is not impossible. As ladder is a convenience, so the teacher takes the

same place in the spiritual path. It is therefore that in the East a great importance has been given to

the guidance under the teacher. And that guidance is considered so sacred, as sacred as one could

consider one’s own faith. Because the faith in the form of religion is a conception, but when the faith is

given in the form of allegiance to Murshid, then that is a living faith. Therefore in the East it becomes

easy for a Murshid, since those who come under his guidance know beforehand what Murshid

means. They do not need any more for their object of concentration the idols of the temple. Once they

have come to Murshid they have found the living example which they wish to follow.

There are three forms of concentration. The one form of concentration, or the first stage of

concentration, is when one sees Murshid before one. The next form of concentration is when one sees

the teacher within one, and the third stage of concentration is when one forgets oneself in the

realization of teacher’s presence. It is after these three concentrations that one is able to soar

upwards. The concentration on objects has a different aspect from the concentration on a living being.

Concentration on objects helps one to gather one’s mind, and to focus it on a certain object. But it

takes one no further, because an object is something dead. Concentration on a living being is life, and

by that concentration one touches the same attributes which have brought him under the guidance of

one’s teacher.

Q. If one were asked a difficult question, then to make a special concentration?

A. It is usual concentration enables one at the time of the question. At that time you do not need

to have a special concentration. Usual; it is a matter of habit, and it is something so

wonderful, that it is a phenomenon in itself.

Q. The answer is in the question?

A. Yes

Q. If one prays to Murshid?

A. No, the concentration on the Murshid is not the prayer to Murshid. Because prayer only

belongs to God. And no man deserves prayer.



Q. But with a picture of Murshid before one?

A. No, I would not advise that. Because the thought must be without any picture or anything. In

the East, when we have singing practice, we do not have any piano or harmony, or anything

with us. Only singing without it. By singing without it the voice becomes stronger and truer. You touch

all notes you wish to touch. In the same way, when you have a photograph, it is a help, without it the

mind is put to exercise.

Q. Will you please explain something more of the last way of concentration?

A. The first stage of concentration is that the teacher is before you. Just you see the teacher

before you, visualize it. The second way of concentration is that you lose yourself. You do not

even think that you are you. It is the presence of the teacher that is all there is. Rumi says on this:

“Beloved is all in all. The lover only veils him. Beloved is all there is, the lover a dead thing.” What he

means, that when there is an object, when in that object you lose yourself, you do not live, but then

you live as that object. In connection with the teacher you rehearse that. When you rehearse then the

performance is different again. Then there is God. After the rehearsal there is God. Only you cannot

begin the same thing with God. Because God is formless. When you are able to do this with the form,

then the next step is to do the same with the formless.

Q. Do these three stages of concentration develop by themselves?

A. Yes, they develop naturally. One must not think because the other stage is a higher one: I

must leave one and go to a higher. Because one helps the other stage.

Q. This is something not at all known in the West?

A. No, the thing is this, that the esoteric schools happen to be in the East. Therefore there have

not been many ways. There have been either the way through the guru, or the way through

the idol in the temple. Only, there have been these two ways. The third way was through the sun. To

look at the sun, to worship the sun, that was the ancient way of the multitude. Even through the sun

they got the vigor, life, power, energy. But not that human tenderness, gentleness, all the human

qualities are got from the human being, not from the sun.

Q. Images in the Roman Catholic Church, is that the same idea?

A. There is much of the same idea, but that idea has been mixed. Two things have been mixed.

The Sufi idea is there too, but at the same time there is a mixture of the other idea.

Q. What is the mixture?

A. Well, the mixture of the idea is this, that there is attached a particular story. That story takes

away the mind from the form, takes away the mind from the person. Besides that, when you

have pictures of a great many saints, then the mind is not focused on one object. Now in America, to

my great disappointment I found this one great drawback. It seems that thousands and thousands of

people are every day after the spiritual pursuit. One day they go to one thing, another day to another

thing. Just like one goes to one of the many theaters, so they go to a great many discussions on the

subject, anything new and sensational. Therefore even the spirituality has become sensational, it is a

diffusion of the whole thing. It is a kind of stage that they are going through; that they really do not

know what they are seeking. After hearing a hundred lectures, and after having read five hundred

books they really do not know which is which. Now there is a book which is very popular, of the



masters of the east, written by a man who never went to the east. Everybody has read it, everybody

asked me have you read this book? It is such a wonderful book. Really speaking, this book has helped

me very much, because wherever people have read this book they came to hear me. It helped me

very much in advertising. At the same time how many people are deluded by it. It is like a novel. He

has made a very nice novel. It tells about the mahatmas, masters, sitting in the caves of the mountains

of the Himalayas, scenery in imagination. He is a good play producer. He has made a beautiful play

out of it, made a book of it, this book is read by hundreds and thousands of people. But then, when

something impresses them, do you think they will leave him alone? No they will follow him, they

pursue him and pull him to pieces. He never even went to India once. Suppose fifty, hundred persons

have found it. And ten thousands have read his book, they all believe in him. It is a state of chaos.

Now there is so much spiritualism going on in the United States. And there is a man, whose name is

Hudini. Now he does magic performances, something like a juggler. He has a great name. Now he is

after spiritualists. He wants to see every spiritualist in every town. Now I think, one thing is that people

are interested in spiritualism, another thing is that people are interested in Hudini. I thought, what

interest Hudini has in it? The whole interest Hudini has in it is to make a sensation, and make his

performance known, also a monetary interest. The man who is after truth does not care, must not

pursue after falsehood, a man who is after truth, he has no interest in it. He is doubting if he can find

truth in the garden of falsehood somewhere.

Q. Is he a fakir?

A. It is a false fakir. Would you think that a true fakir is so less evolved to disbelieve in the

hereafter, and soul in the other side? Hudini disbelieves it. He has no belief. He is in the

pursuit, and wants to find belief somewhere, if he can. At the same time some material gain, because

it makes him known.

Q. The man who has written the book about the masters of the East, is it not a good thing that

some people get interested in these things?

A. He helped me in my advertisement very much. But at the same time, anything that you

further by falsehood, it leads to falsehood. Besides, success of falsehood is false.

Q. You said the apostles on Whitsuntide together, and it stands in the Bible that they spoke

different languages. You explain that they spoke the language of the heart. I have met a

woman who has never learned English, she was very interested in it. I give her your photo, she got in

a trance, by helping someone else, and when she had done that, she turned to your photo and took it

in her hand and addressed beautiful things in very good English to it.

A. Yes, that comes from obsession. That has nothing to do with spiritual revelation. There may

be an ordinary person obsessed. Anyone who is obsessed can speak the language of the

person who obsesses him.

Q. So you have obsessed her?

A. I never obsess anybody. If not she would have spoken Hindustani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~



7.7.26 Clairvoyance

Wednesday

Clairvoyance

Today I would like to speak on the subject of clairvoyance.

By clairvoyance is meant a clear vision. In Sufi terms it is called Roshan Zamir, and that is a more

expressive word. It means a sphere that has become illuminated; in other words a sphere which is

manifest to you and yet it was not clear, but it has been made clear. In other words, what was before

you and you did not see, is now shown to you. Clairvoyance therefore is not really a mediumship.

Often people have understood by clairvoyance to communicate with spirits. Clairvoyance, really

speaking, is the knowledge that comes by throwing the light of one’s soul on the sphere.

And now there is a question which light is it which is thrown in the sphere in order to get the vision

clear? It is the light of the soul, the soul which is light itself. And it is thrown by the breath. And now the

question: how certain practices you have developed your breath, you begin to realize that you are like

a search lantern, and before you you will always see a light thrown. Where ever you cast your glance,

a light is thrown before you. Sometimes people have thought that it is a spirit or a ghost or some entity

before them. But it is not true; it is their own light falling before them. Sometimes that light begins to

show itself in different colors. Therefore, when some say that they see colors and others begin to

laugh at them, both are in error. Because the first one, he does not know that it is something natural,

and the other one does not know that it can be possible.

In New York I met a man who was seeing colors for a long time. And he was very earnest, very

sincere. And at the same time people began to laugh at him, hearing his story. But he was so sincere

and earnest about it, that he spoke before everybody. Some were entertained by his speech, some

were amused by it, and some thought that he was losing his mind or something. And then when he

spoke to me about it, I told him to come and see me. And he came and saw me. First I told him to

make a diary for one week of all the colors he saw. So he made a diary of one week. And every day

and at different moments of the day and night he brought me the diary of the different colors he saw.

But what he had thought about it was that he was meeting in the form of those colors Mahatmas who

were coming to see him, because he had just read the book of Mahatmas. So this phenomenon was

fitting into his attitude because he had been reading this book. Because he was looking for Mahatmas

and then he found those colors. So then I told him – I did not want to disappoint him very quickly after

eight days’ diary. Then also after eight days’ diary he wrote, I did not tell him what it is.

This will give you a key to deal with mureeds. You might think that on the first day you meet a mureed

you can correct him; but that is not the time. After eight days’ diary that he brought to me, I told him,

“Now tell me the history of every day, all you have experienced, whether it was a sad or a joyous day,

or what it was.” Then he told me what he could. Then next week, when he had more confidence in me



and got a little more acquainted, then I said, “Now this week, those who come to see you and bring a

problem to you (he was a commander), whatever problem they bring before you, you must consult

with your color. Then write it down while you are seeking after a certain person’s problem” He did so.

After one week’s diary that he wrote he brought the diary to me. Then I began to tell him, “This

problem that you brought to me on Monday, it cannot go on; it must finish.” Then he looked at me very

surprised. Then I said, “This problem can be successful.” Then he was surprised because he saw that

it was so. Then every problem when I said, “This problem will take time,” he was very astonished, or

“This problem will be immediately solved.” He asked what relation the colors had with every problem. I

told him that every color is narrative of the condition of that problem; that from the color I found out the

condition of that problem. He was very astonished. It was living proof, it was a diary he had gone

through by experience. The whole week he had seen it, I had not told him. Then he began to say,

“What are these colors? I thought they were Masters, that Masters came in the form of colors.” I said,

“But what have Masters to do to come in the form of colors? If they want to appear, why should they

come in the form of a color?” I explained to him, “Your soul is light itself, as every soul and it is clearer

because you begin to see the colors. But every color is a certain condition of your soul. Because it is a

certain degree of light that produces color.” Then he said, “What has it to do with the problem of

others?” I said, “The first week you saw it was related with your condition, your glad, sad, sorrowful,

joyous attitude; whatever experience you were going through, that was the predominant color.” He

said, “What is the significance of the other persons?” I said, “The hearts are like mirrors, and therefore

the condition of another person is mirrored upon your soul.” But, he said, “Why is not my condition

mirrored on other persons’ soul?” I said, “Because the other persons’ soul is not so clear as your own.

Therefore yours is clearer than the others. What you see before yourself is the color mirrored.

Therefore the color of the other person falls on your own; you see the colors mirrored on the other

person’s character. The problem that the person brought before you has connection with the colors at

that particular time when a person comes before you.” He was very astonished; he said, “Can it be

true?” I said, “Next week come again.” In three weeks’ time he was really convinced. (he was a most

pessimistic military man; he did not think about mystical things). After three weeks he was fully

convinced. Then he began to see from day to day, everything that came in his life, about his future

what will happen; because the vision was clear. The knowledge was absent; as soon as the

knowledge was there he began to see.

That is one phase of clairvoyance. This is seen in the ethereal plane, which means that every person

has before him his own breath, either on the right side or on the left side, or above or below, or straight

before. It only depends upon what element he is breathing. The time he is breathing water element,

the breath is going downwards; the time when he is breathing the air element, the breath is going

zigzag; the time when he is breathing the fire element, the breath is going upwards; when the person

is breathing the earth element, the breath is going straight. It is therefore that one cannot always see

in the same direction. But by seeing in different directions one is able to find out which direction breath

takes. From that day one can see the influence of which element is in the breath. By finding it out and

connecting it with a certain problem, he is able to find out the effect and result of conditions.



Now this is one kind of clairvoyance. The other kind of clairvoyance is more of the character of thought

reading, and this way of thought reading is to keep one’s heart focussed on another and at the same

time passive and blank. And if one can harmonize the rhythm of one’s breath with another, then this

can make it stronger still. In this way one can get a reflection from the thought of another.

There was a dervish not long ago who lived in Hyderabad, and this dervish used to smoke strongly; he

used to smoke hashish. After once he had smoked very deeply and then thrown the smoke, in that

smoke he could see everything you would ask him, everything. And people used to ask him, “Please

tell me about my aunt in Bombay.” So he would begin saying, “Yes, now I take the train for Bombay.”

And then he would say, “Now I arrive at the station, and now I am looking for a taxi; now I go; I have

gone from that lane and come to a house three floors high. And there is a narrow way to go upstairs.’

And this man says yes. And then on the second floor there was the maid working; and on the top floor

the aunt was sewing. And now he gets the condition of the aunt and tells everything about her.

Now one might say, “How has he gone there? How has he reached there?” The idea is that the whole

problem from the beginning to the end is thought reading. As soon as he said, “I am going in the train,”

as soon as he said it, that man thought about going in the train; his thought began to lead the reader

and the reader followed the thought of this man. He said, “Now I have come to Bombay.” So he led the

leader, he pushed the leader to Bombay; he pushed his thought onward to the house of his aunt, and

he followed it. So far it was thought reading. But when he had reached the aunt, then it was the other,

the mirror, because then his mind was carried to that place where he could get his heart mirrored by

the condition of the aunt. So that was another process. The process with which he reached there was

one process; the process with which he gained the knowledge was another process.

Then there is a third aspect, and that aspect of clairvoyance is intuitive aspect; intuitively you can feel

about a person or a problem or past, present or future. And that intense development in intuition, and

your confidence in intuition, is again a different thing. No doubt it is quite true that those who are

mediumistic also gain knowledge from the other side. Very often they mix up word clairvoyance with

all these things. But at the same time it is true too, because clairvoyance is to get the knowledge of

things clearly before one’s vision, which ordinarily is not known to everybody.

Q. That commander in America, when he saw colors did he have his eyes open or shut?

A. Open. But with eyes shut he would have seen just the same. Because it is seen with both

eyes, the inner and the outer eye. The inner eye sees it, and the outer eye thinks it sees it. So

he sees it with inner and outer eyes.

Q. Sometimes eyes shut?

A. The reason is that when the eyes are shut one is more concentrated and one is able to see

more clearly. But it does not matter. Once the vision is clear, it does not matter; whether your



eyes are shut or open you see it clearly.

Q. What does it signify when you see one color all the time, always the same color?

A. It is not possible. Yes, there is one color predominant sometimes, but that is a condition. That

can remain for a month, when a person is in a certain……… When the breath is in Kemal,

there is a standstill, not change. That is a very bad moment. There is an amusing instance that a mureed told me. She said, “I do not know what has happened to

me. I have bad experiences. Plates break, saucers, glasses break in this house. My cat has run away,

and I have cried for the whole week.” This lady was so sad about it. So I told her. She said, “Is it a bad

luck, or a bad star?” I said, “No, it is the condition of your breath.” She was horrified to think she had

such bad luck in her breath. Then I told her to examine it herself, and she found that both nostrils were

breathing. When there is that condition, then it is called Kemal. That Kemal will destroy everything;

whatever you touch will break; whatever you think, that thought will not come true. If there is a wish,

that will not come true. During Kemal one must not wish, not begin anything, not do anything, but be

quite quiet. There is a Kemal breath and Kemal period. In that period nothing will succeed. During that

period one cannot progress; it is a standstill condition.

Q. Can you know that time?

A. Well, if you cannot know it, then the effect of that time will show it.

Q. How can one avoid it?

A. Sometimes you cannot avoid it. Only the disaster you can avoid. You cannot avoid Kemal.

The best way of avoiding is not to begin a new enterprise at that time, not to do too much,

eat, sleep, be quiet. It may remain one day, or some hours, or some moments. Always when

there is such a time, never take an enterprise. Every step you take, every turn you make,

there is nothing but failure.

Q. How can you know when it is ended?

A. You can know by its effect. There comes an effect, when there is no more standstill, there is a

progress.

Q. Is there no possibility of changing that period?

A. Very little possibility of it. Suppose that period comes in breath, it does not come longer than

ten days. It cannot be longer than ten days. A person could not live, for he would die. But if it

is a Kemal from planetary influence, some other influence, that Kemal lasts for months, for

years. That is very terrible.

Q. In one of the Gathas you speak of Kemal as a meeting point, as perfection.

A. Yes, but perfection is destruction, because perfection is the destruction of limitation. Since we

are limited, we are not when we are not limited. Therefore perfection and destruction both are



relatives, for both are conditions of life. The best thing is that the period of Kemal, either of

breath or thought or of life, during that period you must meditate, think of higher things,

occupy your mind with God, with prayer, with meditation, with higher ideals. Then it will not

have effect; then this period will be shortened also. But if that person occupies with small

things, then there is always a disaster.

Q. About the story of the dervish who followed the thought of that other person by railway

towards Bombay. When you imagine that all one’s impressions, thoughts, are so scattered in

the space, how can we say, “My mind” and “another person’s mind” if that is all scattered? A. Yes, but as the body is formed and held in certain space, is it not? It is not scattered.

Although the body is made of atoms, it is not scattered, it is composed, it is a being.

Q. But the mind of another is a great distance too.

A. It interpenetrates. The more one sees the wonderful phenomenon, the splendor of it, the more

one sees that all time and space have nothing to do with it.

Q. I know a well-known somnambule; she treats people who are ill. A lady went with a portrait of

her husband. She puts herself into a trance; she travels to the other town if they say where a

person lives, and she tells everything about the person. When she travels, what is the

procedure of this phenomenon? A The same procedure exactly. First she gets it from the person’s thought. When she has got

there, then she gets it from the reflection, from the impression. First introduction must be the

thought of a person.

Q. In instance I sent note to anyone about it who was living in a certain town.

A. Then she can travel and go there because you have said it.

Q. Why do they always ask for an object from a person?

A. That object unites them too. That object gives a greater confidence; there is nothing else. For

instance, there are some clairvoyants you give a person’s hair (t). As soon as you give that

hair in the hand, they can touch that person. Or a letter; when a letter is there, they can touch

that person. The reason is that, that this objects brings them a confidence that that person is

in their hand. It is for their own self. They have the person in their hand. As soon as they

have got that confidence, they have reached that person.

Q. This woman, if it is a nice day, she can go a long distance. If it is raining, then it is hard for

her. If there is a hard wind, then she cannot leave the town.

A. That is also in her thought, more in her thought; besides that, the denseness of the

atmosphere. Naturally, just as when there is sunshine you feel lighter, enthusiastic; and when



there is no light you feel gloomy, like staying in bed.

Q. Does it depend upon breath?

A. Well, maybe. In that case it is not necessary about the breath. In that case what is necessary

is the focussing of the mind.

Q. In the process of manifestation, in what moment does the principle of space evolve into the

process of emanation from the Abstract?

A. Well, the first condition, or the original state of being, is unconscious consciousness; in other

words, the pure intelligence, an intelligence which is not even known to itself; that is the first.

The next process is the intelligence being conscious of itself, but there is nothing to feel

conscious of except of the consciousness, of getting the knowledge of existence. The first is

called in Sufi terms Ahadiat, the second Wahdat, the third Wadaniat. And that third is that as

soon as the consciousness occupied to feel itself, its existence, the life begins to become

audible; and the next stage is it becomes visible. Audible in the form of sound; visible in the

form of light. After these three planes, then there come three other planes, and those three

other planes are the soul, or the angelic world, the djinn world, and the third world is the

material world, the physical world. Sometimes they say seven planes; the seventh or

finishing plane is the human plane. That makes it seven.

Q. In an urgent case, may one call before a patient a clairvoyant?

A. In the first place I would say that Sufism does not restrict anyone to do what he likes. If they

want to go to a clairvoyant or someone, there is no rule in the Sufi Order, no teaching. But at

the same time “Sufi” is “wise”, the meaning of “Sufi” is “wise”. The first principle of the wise

is to develop so that he has not to depend upon others, that he does it himself. The other

thing is that when the wise who is beginning on the path of wisdom, then he takes the hand

of a guide and then the first thing he will do is to ask his own guide, his Murshid, his teacher,

“What shall I do about it?” Anything else he will do afterwards. Even that is not a rule. The

initiation does not restrict a person that he “must” ask his Murshid.

Q. I said, ‘an urgent case’.

A. In that case, if a person feels a great need of that kind, there is nothing to restrict him,

nothing. Only, one thing must be taken care of: not to allow oneself to drift on the way of the

so-called clairvoyant medium, fortune-tellers and soothsayers.

Q. Has that science been lost? In some cases when doctors are quite at a loss and cannot find

anything and say, “You are puzzling science,” sometimes those people can give herbs that in

three or four days they are quite better.

A. That is quite true. I quite believe in it. In that case there is no objection to it.





12.7.26 Postures

Monday

Now today I would like to speak of the importance of giving the different postures to the mureeds.

There are four principal postures. One is used in the Zikar and Fikar, and that is called the posture of

the cupid. This posture is given to make the heart melted. I do not mean to say that without that

posture the Zikar does not work upon a person, but at the same time with that posture it has a greater

effect. And that posture is to take the muscle of the chord of the left leg under the knee between the

two toes of the right foot, and to sit cross legged. This posture has an influence on the heart, it makes

the heart respondent.

And the second posture is a simple cross-legged sitting, simply cross legs with two hands on the

knees. This helps one to have ease and comfort and inspiration and peace.

And there is a third posture, that is to sit on the left heal and the right heal taken inwardly. This posture

is the posture of the adept. Yes, the posture before is the posture of the king, because it gives

happiness and comfort and pleasure to those who are accustomed to sitting cross legged. But the

third is the posture of the adept who gains self-control and who practices self-discipline.

The fourth posture is the posture of the sage, and that posture is to take one foot on the thigh and the

other on the other thigh. It is a most difficult posture, but it is a posture by which perfection is gained.

And now you might ask: what is the reason? The reason is that as the two legs are two currents going

outwardly through the heart so are the two hands, and by putting the two feet on the thigh you have

closed two currents. And then by closing your palms and the thumbs, you close four currents, then the

heart which is the sun has no way of sending out, of releasing its current. Therefore what it does, it

begins to expand within itself, and it begins to become larger in itself. And therefore it becomes more

illuminated and more powerful; and all that is latent in it comes out, and by that means perfection is

gained.

Four postures therefore are the most wonderful postures to be remembered. But besides these four

postures there are many small postures about which I shall speak at another time. No doubt adepts

stand and worship, I mean meditate on both legs and on one leg. Adepts stand on their head and

meditate, and each one of these ways has their very great importance. The adept that stands on his

two legs and meditates, he also helps to sustain those currents that are going out through his legs, by

standing on them. Sometimes, while doing this, adepts raise one hand or two hands. By that also they

sustain the magnetic currents. Standing on two legs and raising one hand or two hands, it all helps to

sustain magnetism. And those who practice it with breathing they are very much helped.



Those who stand on their head or on their arms, these are two acrobatic practices which the mystics

have introduced in mysticism, and by that a great amount of power is gained. By the fact of letting the

brain touch the ground the head attracts all the powers from the earth, all the magnetism of the earth

in the head, because the head attracts more than the feet. And if the head is touching the ground, the

head attracts much more. Besides that a control is gained over nerves and muscles, and that control

gives mastery. And therefore those who gain mastery, they begin in that way. These practices can be

given to young man who are supple and who are trained in gymnastics, and who can do them more

easily, and they can be immensely profited by these.

Besides these two acrobatic postures, there is walking which also is included in the practices. That

with each two steps to inhale and to exhale and in this way to practice Fikar for fifteen minutes or

longer. In this case the initiate must be warned that he may not make a mistake by doing this practice

in the street where cars and wagons are passing, because he may risk his life by it. One does not

know in meditation how much one can be conscious of oneself and all around one. Therefore never

make a mistake. It must be always done in a garden or somewhere. This practice has proved the most

profitable, a wonderful practice. There is not one sage, advanced sage, who has not done this

practice. Because in the end this practice becomes a nature. Every person does it without difficulty.

Every person is able to. Once a person has done this exercise for about six months, then it becomes

automatic. When this practice becomes automatic, it can even develop so that a person, without

knowing, goes to sleep in that practice, and when that person is awake he finds his mind in that

practice. And when he wakes up and sees himself doing that practice that is a sign of great

advancement. Then that person is not doing a prayer, but he himself is a prayer.

Q. In doing the third posture, is it possible to make the knees more supple so that one has not a

great pain in them?

A. Well, practice makes it easy. It needs one, or two, or three months practice, but it makes it

easy afterwards.

Q. Because with great pain in the knees it is very difficult to concentrate, when one has great

pain.

A. But if he did it for five minutes every day.

Q. Can one not bring injury to the knee?

A. Never. The knee is meant to bend. If it does not bend it means that there is something wrong

with it. And if one’s hands and knees did not bend to our soul, then how can one expect the

nature to bend before it?

Q. Even with rheumatic knees still persevere?

A. Yes, it will help to cure rheumatism. I do not mean to say that one must torture oneself too

long. Five minutes that is all. It is not natural to be so stiff.



Q. Murshid, is it allowable to practice the fourth posture till one acquires it?

A. Yes, it is allowable . Not to the others, but it is allowable to those who come to this group. In

three months I am sure a person will acquire it. But at the same time one must know that one

must not torture oneself too much.

Q. Murshid, in the walking Fikar when it is almost impossible to come to a quiet place, is it

allowed to continue as long as there is no traffic, as long as there is no great movement?

A. Yes.

Q. Fikar two steps?

A. As I said: if the steps are slow, two steps. If they are moderate generally four steps; if they are

quick, eight steps. I would not go in a place where one comes and speaks to you.

Q. Then with you?

A. That does not matter.

Q. For the fourth posture, does it matter in what order the legs are crossed on the thigh?

A. I would put the right leg first, and the left leg afterwards. To put it with the hands, because it is

difficult for the leg to go by itself. But with the hand one can do it.

Well, and now we are coming to another question. We want to in the first place discuss this idea: how

to give a mureed some belief. To give him in writing some book, or to tell him in words, or in what way

to give him. If I were to give you my answer, I will say give him the belief without even speaking. See

in him where the belief is developed, and then water it, rear it, and let it rise gradually. And the other

point is: how to develop a mureed’s faith, if the mureed has not yet got it. Not by discussion, nor by

arguments, nor by teaching, nor by correcting. But appreciating the little faith, the tiny little faith

somewhere in his heart. Appreciate it, take notice of it. As soon as you have taken notice of that spark,

then you will blow it to a blaze in time. But if you are annoyed and disappointed, and discouraged with

things, that the mureed has no faith, which is often very discouraging, then the mureed goes from bad

to worse, but if you see somewhere hidden, somewhere a slightest spark of it, blow it continually and it

will……..

And now the third point: how to make a mureed work, means: do his practices. Because very often

mureeds are so despondent, that they begin to do practices for four, eight days after their initiation.

After eight days they see no result. Ten days is to long and have no results. Then they think that, “If I

would have sold matchboxes I would have so much money gained in so much time. This he would

have thought that it is something, it is an exaltation. But a mureed who is counting beads, he thinks,

“What is it!” He does not know, “what it is bringing about, what do I gain by it.” He gives it up. He may

have a great faith in the initiator, a great belief in the teaching; yet he is not interested in the practices.

In order to make him do his practices, the first principle is never to blame him. If he says, “Murshid, I

do my practices once in a month,” say, “that is very good!” But if he said, “I would like if I could do



them oftener than once a month,” I would say, “I appreciate it very much.” If he says, “How often shall I

do it?” I would say, “How often can you do it? Can you do it four times a week? That is good too. But if

you can do it every day it is ten times better.” Never to force upon him, never to urge upon him that he

“must” do it. But let him appreciate himself and come to the understanding, come to the realization that

the practice is a great thing in his life. And remember that once the mureed gets into the rhythm of the

practice, even if one asked him to leave it out, he will never leave it. Very often mureeds come to me,

trembling, “Murshid, I hope you will not take away this practice. I enjoy it very much. I want to keep it.”

They get into the rhythm of it, they enjoy it, they get the benefit of it once they have got into the rhythm

of it. As long as they do not get into the rhythm of it, then they are neglectful. If you force upon them,

“Do it,” then that spoils the whole thing.

As I say, in short, the initiator’s work, the Teacher’s work is of a very subtle and difficult nature. It is so

difficult to answer every demand, and it is so difficult to keep them on the work which is given to them

for their own good. It is so difficult to make them do something and yet not to say it. And the less they

are forced to do anything the better it is. That is the power which sustains their faith, their beliefs, their

enthusiasm. But if they are forced that they must do it, “it is for your good, you must,” then there is

another result. The result is a disappointment, even if it is for their good. The Teacher has nothing to

get from it; but at the same time they do not see it in that light. They only see that the Teacher has

forced his will on me; and that they cannot bear. Therefore as gently, as finely, you can guide a

person, so much the better it is.

Another thing: sometimes a mureed comes and says, “Teacher, have I done wrong?” He just asks.

And if you said, “Yes, you have done wrong,” as soon as you have accused him he has gone from

your hands. He asked you, “was it wrong?’ and you say, “yes, you have done wrong,” and he is lost.

And can you say that, when a person has done wrong, “No, you have done right?” That would not be

the right thing also. And how gently you have to act in that situation. Here the mureed wants to have

done wrong. It is not that he is eager to know that he has done wrong; he only wants you to commit.

As soon as you commit you have lost your hold on the mureed; he is lost. Ordinary people can be

judges, his friends can be judge, his relatives can be judge, but the Teacher cannot be his judge. As

soon as the Teacher is his judge he has lost his Teachership. The Teacher must judge the lest of all.

And what he judges he is not even allowed to say. Then he is a Teacher. And suppose you said, “Yes,

you have done wrong,” what good has it done to him? And granted that he has accepted; no good has

been done. The correcting of a Teacher is the most delicate way of correcting. To correct, not in an

abrupt way, not in a way that it insults, that it cuts, that it jars upon the susceptibility of the mureed, but

without any shock given to the mureed, must (just) gently lift him. At the time, when the person has

asked, “Murshid, have I done wrong?” that is the wrong time to answer him, that is not the time. The

answer will come from his own lips. And that will only come from his lips if you will close your lips.

Then the answer will come from his own lips. And the day when the answer has come from his own

lips, then you must know that your Teachership has worked in him. It is a better position. And a

miracle too. And when his own heart feels it, and when he says it, and when he accepts the wrong that



he has done, well, that is the real correcting. Because now he is on the way. He has accepted, he has

told you with his own lips. You never accused him, you never showed disapproval of him. He is

corrected without your apparent effort; and yet there is your effort from within. But not outside. If we do

not (act) differently from the others, then what is the difference between us and the other people?

Q. Murshid, would you tell us to what extent one can praise a mureed? Is it encouraging, or

dangerous?

A. In some cases it is dangerous. If a person cannot digest it, the praise, (and there are many

who cannot digest praise), and in that case it is dangerous. Besides that, it is not right to

praise a person for something he does not deserve. Because then it is the Teacher’s

responsibility to have praised a person who has not deserved. And yet a Teacher has a great

facility, a greater scope to praise than another man. Because a Teacher can see the good

outside and what is hidden, that others cannot see. He has a greater facility of finding God

things in a person than another person can. And when one finds a spark of good to a pupil,

and one appreciates it, it is like blowing the spark of fire to a blaze, or it is like watering a little

seedling which is there and which will come up and which will manifest all that is latent there.

Q. If there is a mureed who in everyday life is doing something you think is wrong; at the same

time you realize that if you tell him it may hurt his feeling, what is the best thing: let him go on

doing the wrong thing, or hurt his feeling in telling? A. It depends upon what wrong the person is doing, and who the person is, and what way the

Teacher has. Because if there are four Teachers, each one of them may have a different way

of training. And you cannot say that the way of the one is not as good as the other. And the

way of one Teacher may be that he will tell it; but the way of the other Teacher is that he will

not tell. And a third Teacher will tell to the one and not to the other. Now for instance, if I saw

my two mureeds acting wrongly every day, and I thought that it would be better for their

benefit to correct them, maybe that to one I will say, and to the other I will not say, and the

result will be the same. By my not saying to the one and by my saying to the other, the result

will be the same. I will see whom to say and whom not to say. Sometimes by keeping lips

closed one corrects a person, sometimes by saying one corrects a person. Sometimes if you

wait for ten days you have a better position to correct the person than when you did it at the

moment when you feel the reaction of his doing. Sometimes waiting is necessary. By waiting

you make your position so strong that one day he cannot refuse what you say. But if you said

one day before that time comes, there is a chance of his refusing. Of course, it is very subtle,

and yet it is my every day experience.

Q. Murshid, if people bring problems of their lives, and they say about two courses of actions,

“Shall I do this or that? One is more profitable for worldly advantages, and the other is less



profitable; the one enables me to study mystical life; one is success on the earth, the other a

success in the spiritual realm,” is it wise to advise them, to recommend a thing?

A. Now for instance a person says that, “Teacher, by sitting at your door I can do the most

spiritual work, because I have my time to do Wazifa, Zikar, Fikar, any mystical practice,

everything possible, and by going to work in a certain place, then I have only a few hours; and then I

get tired, and then I cannot do the practices. Now what is your advice?” I will say, “Will you sit

constantly at my door, without doing anything? If you are content with the condition, with the position

that you are in, it is better that you are content and prosper spiritually. But if you are discontent, “Oh, if

I had something else,” then it is better to go and to get what you want first. Then when you are

content, then come and devote your life to this.” But at the same time there are numberless cases that

I am always coming in contact (with) for many, many years, cases where there is a person’s personal

benefit or the benefit of the Cause. And I will tell you that in each case I have first considered his

personal benefit and thought of the Cause the next. Because I think our Movement is working to help

humanity, and those who come to us and those who have faith in the Movement, in the Message, and

those who wish to render some service, some help to the Cause, if their happiness is not considered,

is neglected or overlooked by the enthusiasm for the success of the Cause, I would not think it right. I

think it is not just. Yes, if they themselves are so devoted that they would sacrifice anything, but give

their thought and their life to the Cause, I appreciate it beyond words. But for myself I would always try

to look for their happiness and welfare first, before thinking of our work.

Q. Murshid, even if the Cause would suffer from that?

A. Yes, even then, because their happiness is our first motive; our Cause is the second.

Q. Murshid, in some cases the persons do not really know what they want. That is why they

come and say, “Will you advise me” – Is it right to advise? It is a great responsibility. The

man does not know really what he wants. A. Well, when a person does not know what he wants, it is very difficult to tell him what is right to

do. I think in that case one should leave it to time. Sometimes time decides. But about many

difficulties I should like to say that sometimes we act and do impatiently with difficulties. If we

left difficulties which cannot be solved, just now, to a later time, it would make a great

difference. The greater the difficulty give it more time, and it comes right.

Q. Murshid, this particular case is suffering in his health simply because he does not know what

is right. I mean is it right to give a definite guidance? I cannot be sure if that is the line which

is for his ultimate happiness. Help silently? A. That is the thing. As long as the inner conviction does not come, so long to wait. When there

is an inner conviction then to advise. But then that is divine advice.

Q. Murshid, what is the psychology of waiting like that?

A. Divine wisdom works from within. If you let things wait for another time divine wisdom works



out its way. And it is always advisable, whenever you are confronted with a very difficult

problem which you cannot solve just now, it is always wise to leave it till tomorrow.

Q. I think it is the hardest advice to give, we are so impatient.

A. But it is the hardest thing to be patient, and one is never patient enough, never. To soothe

them to calm them, because it is a fire.

Q. Is every problem solved by time, Murshid?

A. Yes, there is no problem that time will not solve. Because the solution of a problem is like

death. It is a release, it is a change. And time is death; times causes that release. In the

Sanskrit language time and death have the same word: “Kala”. Time means “Kala” and death

means “Kala”.

Q. If someone is coming and telling you, “I would like to know about my nature. I cannot know.

How do you find my character? Please tell me about it.”

A. Yes, they come with two motives. One motive is entertaining them, they want you to

entertain; and the other motive is that they want you to commit yourself. As soon as you

commit yourself you give into their hands an instrument to you with, a weapon. Because any word that

he has not expected from you, then you have given into their hands an instrument to fight against you.

Therefore such a kind (of) request like that, very kindly refuse it. It is always best to avoid prophecy

and to avoid character-reading to the person who asks. Besides a spiritual teacher is not always a

fortune teller or a character reader. They must go to the palmist for that. A spiritual teacher is much

greater than that, and he knows more; and therefore he says less. Those who know less they say

more; the more you know the less you say.

Q. To ask such a question is a form of self-love, to inflate their nubs?

A. They want entertaining, they want a pastime, they want a little amusement. They are

examining, they are testing the teacher. But whatever happens never become annoyed,

never become displeased. How could you become displeased with little children? However much

wrong they make, they are children; we love them just the same. And the same must be the attitude of

a teacher toward the pupils. Their little faults one must not mind; one must never bear them in one’s

heart. One’s heart must always be kept pure from it; then only the pure love will go to them and

harmonize them in time and take away all that is undesirable there. Then there will come a time when

they will ‘take’ your word too. Then when you give them advice they will listen because their hearts are

impressed and convinced (then their heart cannot refuse the proof of your love). First their heart must

be convinced and impressed of your love, and then, whatever you say, they will listen. But you must

first give time for that love to impress them. And always keep annoyance away; never be annoyed. I

mean to say the good morals, the good manners, good ways, a mureed learns by acting with the

same attitude towards his teacher. But at the same time all the great virtues and sagely and saintly

character that a teacher develops is by practicing the same with his pupils. He can do the same with



the others, but the first place he has to practice is with his pupils. Because they come nearer to him

than all the world. In short, what I wish to make clear is that the first thing is not commanding, or

correcting, or teaching. The first thing is making an abode in the heart of your pupil. If you teach it

goes to his head; if you command it goes against his nature, if you correct it displeases him. That will

not do any good You first make your abode in the heart of your pupil, and then if you want to correct,

even without your words you will correct him (he will be corrected). He will feel what pleases you and

he will begin to feel it. When you are displeased and you have said no word, he will feel it just the

same. So you do not need to correct. And your teachings you will impart to your pupil without words,

beyond words.

The education of the mureed is of the greatest importance, and there is nothing else in this world

which is more difficult than the molding of a mureed. It is just like the work of a gardener who waters

his plants and who keeps them in the sun and puts them in a glass-house, and in every weather

knows when to put them in the air, when out in the sun, how to guard them against all things. In this

way delicate care (is) continually given to little plants. In every way he knows what care to give them

and bring them up. And then they bear flowers and fruits. And such is the work of the teacher.



14.7.26 Thought-reading 2

Wednesday

Today I would like to speak a few words on thought-reading again.

Thought-reading may be divided into two kinds: thought-reading in the presence and thought-reading

in the absence. The thought-reading in the presence needs two principal things: right focus (right

focus means the person is before you exactly, instead of being on one side), and the other principal

thing is that your mind is absolutely passive to read. Besides these two principal things, thought-

reading requires a uniting of breath. I do not mean to say that without this thought-reading cannot be

done, but if one knew the way of connecting the breath, then a current is established.

Now thought-reading at a distance may be considered differently again. There the focus is only the

focus of mind, and if from both ……. (sides?) the minds are focussed, it becomes easier. And yet the

reader of the thought can even read the thought of a person who is absent if his concentration is great

and his passiveness is great enough. Then a desire on the part of the person whose thought is read is

not necessary. The breathing is principal in this case; also because the breath reaches further in

space than a person can imagine. What is voice? Voice is audible breath. If the voice can reach so far

that people from one country to another country can hear it only by the mediumship of radio, imagine

then the breath, which is the silent voice, reaches still further. But one might think that the current of

the radio carries the waves of the voice, but the current of breath carries it still further, carries the

waves of thought still further. And therefore those who are able to read thought, for them distance

means nothing.

And now the last point: are we entitled to read the thought of another? It is just like treading on

forbidden ground. A person of just nature always asks this question. It is a good question, but this is a

moral question; it has nothing to do with metaphysics. Nevertheless, I answer this moral question by

saying: are we entitled to look at all things that are shown in the street? We are, because we have got

eyes and they are exposed before us; we cannot help it. But we are not entitled to go and open

somebody’s box because we are given eyes, because it is kept hidden from the eyes and we should

leave it alone. That is forbidden ground in the same way. For one to try to read the thought of another

is no doubt the same as trying to open the box of another. Yet to develop the faculty of reading

thought is just like making the sight keen. In order to read you don’t need to try and read anybody’s

thought. Besides, that person who must reach that stage of reading the thought, must rise above that

inclination of curiosity to look into the mind of others. He must be much above it; he must not concern

himself with the thought of others.

Now again coming to metaphysics. It is not in the voice that the thought is spoken, but the thought is

spoken in the atmosphere, and the thought is spoken in the expression of the face, and the thought is

spoken especially through the eyes. And therefore the one who develops thought-reading has many



different ways of reading it. He can read it from the eyes of a person, he can read it from his

expression, he can read it from his atmosphere.

And now one might ask: are there any definite signs by which I can distinguish the thought, the signs

of the eyes, of expression, or of the atmosphere? Naturally the change of tranquillity changes the

condition of the eyes, the situation of the eyes. And how do they become different? They lose their

natural place. As soon as they lose their natural place, then they have no other place and they waver.

Therefore unrest, uneasiness, lack of tranquillity, are at once traced as soon as you find that the eyes

are not in their proper place. Then the action of the eyes expresses restlessness, the activity of the

eyes expresses restlessness, instability of eyes expresses perplexity, confusion, fear, distress,

despair. When the eyes are downcast then it is discouragement, disappointment with oneself, with

another; and if the eyes are turned upwards, then it is indifference, then it is a barrier created. When

the eyes go right and left, then it is utter confusion. It is like saying, “What to do! I do not know. What

to think! What is it all about? I don’t know what it is.” And in the expression the slightest humor shows

the joy and courage and strength and pleasure, happiness, love and affection. And contraction of the

face shows revenge and spite and malice and prejudice. And the expansion of the muscles of the face

shows the joy of the person.

Eyebrows play a great part in revealing the thought one is reading. Eyebrows can smile without

smiling, and eyebrows can shed tears without crying. Fear, anger, doubt, confusion, pride, conceit,

humility, modesty, everything you can see in the eyebrows. And the thought that is going on in the

mind is just as if it is written on the board; it goes on in the face; while the person is thinking there is

something going on in his face. And you can read it all. Only if one studies it keenly, then one gets

accustomed to read by the different actions and conditions of the face a person’s thought.

Besides that, every often when a person is at the telephone telephoning someone, you only hear this

person speaking, not the other person. But by hearing this person you can hear what the other person

is saying, and in the same way, by seeing the action of the face, the change of the countenance as it

takes place continually, you can trace the thought that is going on and which is the re-action in the

face. No sooner you read this, no one can tell a lie before you. You at once know it. Because words

cannot hide the thought. Mostly words are the cover over thought. But when one can read it in the

face, then the words have no power to contradict. You can see it just like a mirror.

Besides, there is a thought of humility, there is a thought of guilty conscience, there is a thought of

shame. And however powerful a person may be, he cannot hide it. It is so strong and you can see it in

his face just like a moving picture.

And now I am coming to physiognomy. Physiognomy is made by a continual expression. If a person

has an expression twenty times a day, a certain expression caused by a certain thought, in twenty

days that person’s face is formed according to the thought. And in this way the thought makes the



countenance, very often. There are many other reasons, but very often the thought makes the

countenance. In the Eastern language there is a word in Persian and in Hindustani called “Aberu”,

meaning, “The water of the face”; in other words, “the radiance of the face”. And the poets and the

writers and the literary people connect it absolutely with the thought of the man, that the thought full of

self-respect, of honor, of pride, of enthusiasm, of hope and of energy, produces a radiance, and by the

radiance you can find there is energy, enthusiasm, honor, pride and hope. And when that radiance is

less, then all these things are less in proportion t it.

And now I am coming to the reading of the atmosphere. The reading of the atmosphere is both easy

and difficult. I tell you why it is easy. It is easy because it at once strikes you. You don’t need to

examine the feature, or the reflection in the thought of the feature, nothing. Nothing to delude you. It is

simple. You only have to be passive and it strikes you at once, just like a shock. In that one shock you

know everything; not like a record, it comes at once. One impression and you know all. That

impression is revealing. But one might say, In what way is atmosphere revealing? The atmosphere is

not audible to the ears, but it is audible to ears of the heart. The atmosphere of every person speaks,

and the deeper the person is in his thought, the louder the atmosphere speaks. If the person is afraid,

if the person is doubting, if the person is suspecting, if the person is thinking of revenge, if the person

is joyful, cheerful, hopeful, courageous, the atmosphere talks louder than words, if one can only hear

it.

And in conclusion, thought-reading is as simple as everything else in life, for it is only difficult because

we are so much concerned with ourselves, with our affairs, our duties, our thoughts and our beliefs,

that we never give a thought to it. If not, that is a natural faculty in every person; and every person is

supposed to read the thought. It is not a wonder if a person reads a thought, but it is a surprise if a

person does not read the thought. It is simple because it is a natural faculty. It is difficult because man

has lost it in his everyday life, in his everyday activity, and by not having the knowledge that this power

is latent in man.

Q. Vibrations, the breath vibrations that are perceived by thought-reading in the presence, are

they the finest vibrations of this plane, or mental vibrations?

A. Finest vibrations of this plane; they are between mental and this plane.

Q. And of thought-reading in the distance, are they mental?

A. Mental.

Q. Reach far wider?

A. Yes.

Q. When one has developed the faculty of thought-reading, can one at the same time develop

the faculty of hiding one’s thoughts?

A. Yes, there is a way of hiding one’s thoughts also. That way is of control of expression of the

countenance and a control of the breath. But no one can control atmosphere, no one. The



atmosphere will be just the same, and if a person can read the atmosphere, then he can read

anybody’s thought. Only there are two things, the expression one can change, also the voice; but

changing the expression and voice apart, the general tendency is to give away their thought by words.

They cannot hold it back, they cannot hold back that thought behind their lips, they cannot.

It is said that there was an attendant of a king, and there was some secret that the king had given. He

had no one else to give that secret, so he gave it to an undeserving person. So as soon as the

undeserving person had the secret, he became ill. So he thought, if I give that secret I am cured, and if

I keep that secret I get ill. He was very uneasy; he got pain. He could not eat, he could not sleep, he

could not do anything since the king had given that secret to him. He was almost mad; he wanted to

die. He went to a wise man and said, “I am dying, I am dying. I know a secret, I want to speak it before

somebody; I have such a pain, I am uneasy. And if I spoke before anybody, the king will take my life;

and if I keep my life I am ill.” So the wise man said, “Now go in the forest, far away, and tell the secret

to a tree.” So when he went there and told the secret to the tree, he felt easy. From then the illness

had gone.

Such is the case of ninety-nine persons among a hundred, or even more. To hide the thought before

others is a difficult thing, but even not speaking thought before others makes them ill. They cannot

help it. That is lack of control.

But in Turkey, in good families, a special education was given in the home, in all good families, and

that education was that however much pain or trouble or sorrow and worry or anxiety you have, as

much as you can bear you must bear and not tell anybody. And the second stage of that control, you

must not show it in your face, you must bear it inwardly. No matter if you are going through the

greatest torture, keep smiling to the world. And there are to be found wonderful examples of that

practice. There is a nobleness in it. A person whose heart is crying and laughs before the world is a

brave man; a person whose heart is laughing and whose tears are coming out is a hypocrite.



16.7.26 The Sufi point of view

Friday

Now I would like to say a few words on the idea of the Sufi point of view. It differs very much from the

general point of view. It is not because of its difference from the others, but because of its

profoundness. In the case of dealing with people, treating people, in whatever way one has to treat

them the first thing the Sufi thinks is: In what way I must spare the person’s susceptibilities, how can I

avoid bringing the person displeasure by avoiding in saying a word, or by avoiding in doing something.

How I can say to someone without saying something that will hurt the person. How can I act so that it

will not hurt or it will not touch the person wrongly. In other words, it is a delicate point of view to think

delicately, and that is what generality overlooks. It is not simple to be thoughtful, it is not easy to be

considerate; it requires a great deal of delicacy, skill; one must know the art of approaching another.

And the other point of view of the Sufi is still more difficult. And that is to maintain sincerity, to maintain

faithfulness, to maintain truth. False flattery, polished politeness, made-up refinement, these things are

against the Sufi’s idea. And therefore, on one hand he must be extremely fine and polite and delicate,

and on the other hand he may not prove to his own conscience in any way insincere and external,

superficial. Very often there are some sincere people, but with their sincerity there is an abruptness.

You will find many people saying, “Well, I tell the truth. If it cannot agree with them, it shows that they

cannot digest, their digestive power is not great.” A person very proudly says that, “I have given him a

good talk. He feels that I am quite sincere.” But sincerity has no value without fineness. If one

overlooks the law of fineness, of gentleness, and one wishes to be very truthful, that is unbalanced

condition. On one side fineness, on the other side sincerity makes a balance in life.

Another Sufi attitude is to be resigned to the past, to be attentive to the present, to be hopeful to the

future. What is done is done, what is the use of grieving over it. It is past, it is gone. Turn your back to

it and forget it. And what is being done, be attentive to it wholeheartedly. Give your whole being to it to

make it good. And what is to come, be hopeful towards it. In this way a person is able to have the Sufi

attitude.

Sufism teaches tolerance. But by tolerance, it does not mean that: defend the wrongdoer. By

tolerance, it means the Sufi spares himself from judging someone whom he does not know. Whether

the person is in the right or in the wrong, to judge whether a person is right or wrong – let him go. That

is the attitude. It is not the attitude of indifference. But very often by judging people, you spoil people.

As soon as you accuse a person of wrongdoing, you have thrown him down deeper. If you let him

loose, his wrongdoing will become his greater teacher. And by interfering with that teaching which a

person is getting in life, a person spoils the other person’s life. That is intolerance. Besides, one is

never sure whether a person is in the wrong or right. What we can see is from one’s own point of view



. One cannot see from the point of view of others. One does not know what is hidden behind it.

Reason can take so far and no further. Therefore the Sufi tries to keep himself backward in judging

persons and their actions. For himself his standard of right and wrong is what he thinks to be right and

wrong for the moment. But by that standard he does not judge others. He says, “Maybe they have

their own standard according to their particular evolution. I am not the person to judge it.” People

might misunderstand a Sufi, owing to this; because either people are without a rule, or they are the

slaves of the rule. And there are very few who take the rule for their use without being its salve; who

make rule, and who use rule, and yet are not restricted by it.

And now comes Sufi’s religion. The religion of the Sufi is one, and that is to prove to his conscience

true, in having dealt with every one who comes in contact with him kindly. Kindly, not for his

disadvantage or for the disadvantage of his own, but kindly as far as life can allow him to be kind.

Because kindness has no limit. There can be very little things which you can call kindness, and there

can be great things which you can call kindness.

There is a story of Rohella; Rohella is a sect of the mountain people. One Rohella was travelling in the

same railway compartment with Brahmins. And he was trying to understand Hindustani language. And

the Brahmins were speaking about kindness. So Rohella wondered what kindness was. The Brahmins

all the time used the word “kindness.” So he asked, “What do you mean by kindness?” They said,

“Kindness. What! Do you not know? To be good to people, to be loving, to be sympathetic.” He could

not understand. He said, “I cannot understand; explain more.” They tried, and tried, to explain more.

“Ah yes!” he said, “now I understand. I was once kind. I was kind also, once in my life.” They were very

amused to see that he was kind once in his life. They asked, “How were you kind?” He said, “Yes, yes,

I remember. One day in the war I saw in the battle field a horse in a great torture. And I felt like this,

just as you say.” “What did you do?” they said. “I took my sword and took his head off, relieved him.”

That is his kindness!

Every person’s conception of kindness is as far as he can feel. Nevertheless, for the Sufi there is one

thing which he would rather like to avoid. And if there is any sin, it is that one thing which the Sufi

would perhaps consider to be a sin. And what is it? It is to avoid unknown cruelty. Unknown cruelty is

that by in-consideration, by thoughtlessness, by the misuse of words and by thoughtless action, and

unconsciously sometimes, a person gives pain, or trouble, or hurt, or harm to another. And everybody

hardly knows about it, hardly thinks about it. And yet he has done the harm just the same. It is such a

delicate subject, and it requires such a great thought and consideration not to cause that harm. As

Buddha says that, “the essence of religion is harmlessness.”

Q. If someone asks what definite teaching the Sufi has to offer?

A. You must say that Sufi has no definite teaching to offer. It is the essence of all teaching.

Q. You said, we must not defend the wrong-doer. If we do not know, if we doubt?



A. If we have a doubt that he is a wrongdoer, the best thing is not to defend him. Why to

defend? We might be taken as someone who promotes wrongdoing. Sometimes we think it is

wrong what a person has done, and owing to our kindness we are defending him. It is just

like defending something which we think wrong.

Q. Could we defend the person without defending his action?

A. It is so very difficult to divide the person from his action. It is very difficult. Nevertheless, if

you separate the person from his action and defend him, you may.

Q. We have a saying, “Love the sinner, but not his sin.”

A. That is very good, very wise.

Q. Murshid, what is the wisest way to treat some person who has followed a wrong course of

action. Yet we know they thought they were doing right. And we do not want to be unfriendly

to them. And yet, as you say, if we pay a particular attention to them, people think we were

defending their action; and if we do not gentle and Christian-like, they turn their back and say

we are condemning them. A. Yes, if you are in that position it is just as well to be silent. Silence is a great protection.

Q. So you advise avoiding persons like that?

A. Yes.

Q. How could we help these people who are in the wrong way?

A. It is a very difficult question. You cannot always help them. There is sometime the time helps

them. Sometimes their own wrongdoing helps them. Now I will tell you a little story of a man

in the Mosque. That there was a good person, very pious person, and he was praying in the Mosque.

And there came a lad, a mischievous lad, and he entered in the Mosque. He saw that person devoted

in his prayers. So he came and gave him a slap or a blow in his back, and ran away. Of course they

are engaged in the prayer, and they are asked not to go out of the prayer. Therefore that pious man

continued his prayer. And this boy ran away. But when this man came out, he saw this boy standing

and laughing. So he put his hand in his purse and gave him a penny. So the boy was very glad. Next

time a soldier was offering his prayer. Of course the soldier’s mind was half in his prayer and half in

his drill. When the boy came and gave him a slap, the soldier was conscious of it, and as soon as he

got the slap he was ready to answer it. And he gave him a blow and threw him down. From that the

boy learnt never to do it again. One blow was enough for him to finish. Both did something towards his

improvement. The first was that he let him learn from his own vice, his own weakness. The second

one completed that teaching. Therefore we are not the only responsible ones to accomplish the

……….. Let another one come and complete it. Life will teach just the same. Why we take the

responsibility of the teaching?



Q. Christ teaches us first to correct our own faults and mistakes. Would it not be good, a good

plan, to try and extend one’s own self toward another, really feeling where the other person is,

and working from that bottom, if we feel what he should do, influencing the other in a special

manner? A. Yes, but that is the work of the Teacher. When a person reaches the stage of Teachership,

then he may do it. But when we come to a general Sufi idea, what every Sufi must have, if

that Sufi can have this point of view which I have explained, that begins the Sufi-life.

Q. If one has received a dress, a beautiful dress, and one does not feel worthy to wear it, what

would you advise to do?

A. If it was the fashion of the day, I would wear it.



19.7.26 Six kinds of mureeds / silent teaching

Monday

(Sangita II, page 36-38)

I class the right kind of mureed into two classes, and the wrong kind of mureed into four classes.

Always the wrong kind has more classes.

There is one of the wrong kinds who is only following the teacher for the satisfaction of his intellectual

craving. And so long as the teacher has the food for his intellect, he will be content. The day when the

teacher’s idea does not fit in with his intellectual ideas, he will have difficulties. There is no other side

of the teacher that will appeal to him except one, and that is the teacher’s intellectuality.

There is another of the same kind, who is curious, who wants to find out what phenomena can be

traced in the doings or in the life of the teacher. If there is anything wonderful, if there is anything

curious, if he can satisfy his curiosity, so long he will stay. The day when his curiosity is not satisfied,

he will become discontented.

The third kind is a victim to the teacher’s influence. The teacher’s influence is so strong that he is

attracted to that influence as something is attracted to the magnet. He himself does not know why he

is drawn to the teacher, yet he cannot help being drawn because he is a poor victim.

Now here I will halt and tell you a little story, because that will make it interesting. Once I had a

mureed who quarreled with me every day. And why did she quarrel? Because she did not want to

continue to be my mureed, and yet she could not help it. I said, “Dear lady, if you don’t want to

continue it, you may just as well leave. The world if full of wisdom, wherever you go you will find it. You

are a seeker after truth, and truth always comes to those who seek for it. You may just as well go.”

She would be absent for three days, and the fourth day she would be there again. She would not like

to be a mureed, and she would not like to be away.

Then there is a fourth kind, who wants to be a mureed because it is a good pastime to be able to tell

someone his difficulties, troubles, to be able to pour upon someone his restlessness, his uneasiness,

to be able to get somebody’s advice in difficulty, in trouble. That is all he is concerned with. Neither is

he for truth, nor for God, nor for evolution.

I do not mean to say that these four types of mureeds should be given up; and especially in our Sufi

Movement which is for humanity. They must be taken in just the same and they must be helped. But at

the same time one must be aware not to count them in one’s heart. Only on the register, only on the

list. But in one’s heart one must know that these are the four kinds which will take a long time to be

tuned to a certain pitch.



And again there are two right kinds. One of the right kinds is the one who is little interested in the truth

of it or in the ideal part of it. He is a devotional kind; and his devotion is so real that he is sincere, that

he is faithful, that by his devotion he is (in) at-onement with the teacher. He does not know, does not

trouble himself to ask if it is true or not true, high or low; it does not matter. That is what matters to

him, that he has devotion, that he has the faith. That is a most desirable mureed, for the reason that

this mureed will inherit; this mureed will not have to earn by his actions, or his studies, or his

meditations. He will inherit what the teacher has as a spiritual treasure. Because he comes with

childlike faith, with sincerity, with faithfulness, simplicity. Therefore this mureed may never be thought

that he is a simple one, or be overlooked. No, he must be valued; he is a pearl, a diamond; he must be

appreciated.

There is another kind who makes his reason as sponge to absorb the reasoning, the teacher is his

master. Just like the sponge absorbs all the water that comes, so his spirit, hungry for the truth,

absorbs all the teaching that comes in it and then assimilates it. That mureed is a great satisfaction to

his teacher, because as enthusiastic as the teacher is to give, so enthusiastic is the mureed to

receive.

And now I would like to speak something about the silent teaching. A teacher can elevate a soul much

sooner by a silent teaching than by an oral teaching. No doubt every mureed is not ready in the same

degree as the other. Nevertheless, if the teacher cannot use this method with all, he can try this

method with many. I have seen myself some of the great teachers in the East who kept this method of

teaching by silence as their main method of teaching. And what a mureed can learn in one year's time

by oral teaching that mureed can learn in one month's time by a silent teaching, or even sooner. No

doubt a mureed must have inclination to learn this way, and there are only the right kind of mureeds

who will profit by this method; the wrong kind of mureed, even if you tried to, they cannot be helped

fully. Then one can do them some good, but one cannot inspire them fully, because they are not open.

No teacher may be told of this principle, since every teacher is inclined to adopt this principle, the

principle of testing his mureeds. The greater the teacher, the more delicate his temperament, the more

capable of testing, because his work with the mureed’s progress entirely depends upon his testing. It

is his testing that gives him the conception of the right measure of the teaching that should be given.

Therefore the testing and the reaction is his help. By this help he goes on.

But one might think, does a teacher test every mureed? It is not necessary. There are some mureeds

who are beyond test; you cannot test them. There is no necessity of testing them. There are other

mureeds who are tested. If they are tested, it does not mean that they are wrong mureeds. On the

contrary, it means that they are very …… that the teacher is interested in their progress. That is why

he tests them. The more the teacher has interest and feeling for the mureed, the greater he tests

them. And sometimes the test is very bewildering. Wit is not everyone’s portion, and a spiritual

teacher is supposed to have it. And his great wit is the test that he gives to his pupils.



Q. Murshid, is the test used directly to stimulate progress in the pupil, or is it only a barometer for

the teacher?

A. Both. Sometimes one thing, and sometimes the other.

Q. Murshid, about silent teaching: is the teacher concentrating upon what he wishes to develop

in his pupil, or is it that by ………. it shines upon the pupil?

A. It shines upon the pupil. But besides that, a teacher’s control, it needs a great power. For

instance, if a person who is not inclined to speak, if he does not speak, there is no effort on

his part because he is not inclined. But the one who is inclined to say, whose soul is forcing upon him

to say, to teach, to give out, if he controls himself and keeps back, then the same thing comes as an

influence and goes deeper still. And the person to whom it is directed is inspired wonderfully.

Q. So silent teaching is keeping the truth back?

A. Yes, keeping back. It is so illuminating sometimes that the pupil begins to speak the same

things that the teacher says. If it was orally taken, it might be put in his notebook, kept for ten

years and not understood. But in the other case the pupil begins to say, to speak about it. It comes to

the pupil as an intuition. He begins to see it, to know it, it comes as his own thought. It is simply a

reflection of the teacher’s spirit fallen in the heart of the pupil. It is a most wonderful phenomenon. My

experience shows me this phenomenon every day in many, many different forms, and it is so

wonderful to watch it. It is as if my words are coming from mureed’s lips. I exactly hear my words,

coming from there: the same ideas, the same teaching that I thought. It is a wonder. And yet t is not a

wonder. It is the proof of the oneness of the whole Being.

Q. Murshid, if a mureed fails in a test, can it be put again?

A. Oh yes, it can. There must be no end, and there must be no limit to teacher’s compassion,

because then that is teacher’s test. God is testing the teacher by giving a difficult pupil, and if

teacher loses his hope and inspiration and his sympathy and his eagerness, then the teacher

is coming short of his test.

Q. Murshid, do mureeds very often know that they are being tested?

A. If they know, it is a great pity. Besides, not so interesting. For the teacher it is not interesting.

The best and the greatest wit that the teacher can use is not to let the pupil know in the least

that he is being tested. If you look at a person and you see him, there is no wonder about it.

If you see him, if without a person knowing that you see him, if you do not look and see him,

that is the most interesting part.

Q. Suppose a mureed is very bewildered, if that mureed really is faithful, if he has faith in

Murshid, would he not believe that he is being tested?

A. Yes, if they knew it. Yes, that is a great thing, faith is everything.



Q. When they have faith they know it?

A. Yes, sometimes they know it. But it is not interesting for the teacher for them to know it. For

the teacher it is more interesting when they do not know it.

Now I shall tell you an example. Someone came to me and told me many, many difficulties that a

friend was going through. Someone’s friend was going through many difficulties. This person came

and told me. And this person who was going through difficulty never had time to explain to me, nor

courage to tell me. This is today’s case. That is why it is fresh to be fully interested in it. Now every

difficulty that this mureed was explaining to me about the friend I knew, and more, when I saw the

friend. Only I was giving the time, I was making a test, I was waiting for the moment. I was thinking

and planning about it just the same. And what I knew from this mureed who told me of his friend, was

one hundred times less than what I had already known of this mureed without having had any

conversation. If I had not had any conversation, that does not mean that I did not see the condition; if I

did not say anything, that does not mean that I was not busy, eager, to help him. Only the difference

was that I was busy, that I was aware of his complaint and difficulty, that I was doing what I could, that

I was waiting for that time that comes when I can help the person more.

On the other side, this mureed thought that perhaps Murshid has so many mureeds and so much work

to do that he may never have the time even to think of his friend, who is perhaps in some corner. But

that is not the case in reality. In appearance it is; but in reality it is not so. Perhaps there are many

mureeds with whom I have not spoken yet; there are many mureeds whom I have seen perhaps once.

But at the same time, as soon as I have seen the person, that I know his need. I know what is needed,

what is wanted for this person. And if I let it go, if I put it off, it only means that it is given a time; a little

time is necessary. Perhaps it is for a test. Perhaps that person thinks, “Murshid never thinks of me.

Murshid has no time to think of my condition.” Perhaps he goes to other people to tell them his

difficulty. He does not know that Murshid knows more than he can explain, more than he perhaps

knows about himself. That is the idea, that is testing.

Now there is another thing. Perhaps I have seen a mureed three times in the week, suppose, and

have shown every interest in this mureed and his condition and his difficulty, apparently. But maybe

there is another one whom I have not seen once in a fortnight, and I am more particular and more

busy and more thoughtful about that person whom I have not seen for fifteen days. That is again

testing. One sees with his own eyes the third week that I have spoken with him, that I am interested

with his affairs. He knows so much, he knows no more. And perhaps I am more interested on

someone whom I have never seen in fifteen days, in his affair, in his difficulty; have not spoken with

him. That is the inner work. Inner work stands quite apart from the outer.

And as it is in the Summer School, so it is in the world. One might think that there are mureeds before

Murshid who have come here and they are learning here, Murshid sees them every lecture they have



come there. But they do not know that there are many mureeds who have not come here, and

perhaps their need is greater. My thought is even more with them for the very reason that they are

away. It is not their fault that they did not come. Some situation, some …. has held them back. My

heart goes to them. If in my watch there is no time, but my heart has all the time there is. The difficulty

of the time is only in my watch.

Q. Murshid, what about those mureeds whom you have never seen?

A. Even with them a link is established from the day they have had union with Murshid. From

that day a link is established. Sometimes you will see a great phenomenon. When they come

here, having not seen me once, when they are brought, then something in their soul, some of

them specially, realize the link. And they cannot say it in words; sometimes it comes in their

tears. You can see it in their expression; in their atmosphere you can see it.

Here (is) Miss Angela Alt, she brings mureeds, she knows, she sees it, what reaction comes from new

mureeds who have never seen me before. Because the contact is established.

Q. Sometimes they feel it before they come; they have never seen you.

A. Yes, of course.

Q. Murshid, I have brought you one mureed who had never seen you and who for two years daily

has felt your presence.

A. Oh, yes. The inner link is such a subtle subject that it is very difficult for words to explain. It is

the world of heart, of feeling. It does not belong to earth; it belongs to heaven. And we cannot

see it from earthly conditions. There is no separation in that sphere; all the separation is in this outer

sphere, physical sphere.

Do I not feel for souls who are eager to come to the Summer School and cannot come? I feel them,

their longing, their enthusiasm. And the most wonderful thing is this, that just like with the heat the

thermometer goes up and down as the heat is, so I feel about the mureeds everywhere, the waves of

their devotion which raise the thermometer and the waves when they are going down. My heart, it is

just like the thermometer; it feels it. Every mureed is a current, and that gives the heat. And the degree

of the heat I feel exactly, exactly. Distance makes no difference; never it has made a difference. Many

think, “Oh, I have never had the thought of explaining my difficulties to Murshid.” But they do not know

that there is no need of explaining; their difficulty has a greater affect upon me than on themselves.

That is the true link of the mureed and the Murshid. They talk about twin souls; there is no greater twin

soul than the Murshid and the mureed. They are born twin souls, and they will become twin souls in

the end. For I have always heard my Murshid say that a friendship in the path of God and Truth cannot

be compared with any other friendship, because every other friendship has some or the other reason

for it; but this friendship is higher than any other friendship, because it leads to perfection.



21.7.26 Dreams

Wednesday

I would like to speak this evening on the subject of dreams: that dreams, no matter what kind of dream

it may be, are always significant of something; that there never is a dream without meaning. Only,

either it is revealing of the fact or of the opposite of the fact, or it is revealing of the condition of the

mind. But whatever the dream be, it always has a certain significance to it. The wise, therefore, by

knowing the dream of a person can find out exactly his present condition. And finding out this

condition from dreams is called psychology – it comes in psychology.

The first principle that is to be understood in a dream is that the track is made before the dream in the

sub-conscious mind, and then on that track mind goes automatically, making, covering that ground;

and by covering that ground one sees the whole trend of mind – how the mind began and how the

mind went through a certain track, and how it moved, and how it came back. And that track is the sign

of your sub-conscious mind, what your sub-conscious mind has been doing in the wakeful state, and

in sleep.

In some cases the dream is merely the reflection of another person’s thought; someone who is afraid

of you, someone who is against you, someone who is in favor of you, someone who is trying to help

you, someone who is thinking of you, someone who is going against your wishes, someone who is

standing for you – all this you can see from a distance if your mind is as clear as a mirror. But then if

your mind is upset, then you cannot see it, then what you see is the opposite effect. Friends turn into

enemies and enemies into friends, and everything you see you see upside down; right appears wrong

and wrong appears right.

And then there is a symbolical dream. The symbolical dream is most interesting, because it produces

before you symbols from which we reveal facts, facts in the past, in the present and in the future. And

what interests me most personally in symbolical dreams is that each person has a symbolical dream

according to his particular stage of evolution. If the person is fine, he has fine symbols; if the person is

gross, he has gross symbols; if the person is subtle, he has subtle symbols; if the person is deep

according to his depth; if the person is superficial, his dreams are superficial. The symbols follow

according to the mentality of man, the stage of man’s evolution. And that is the most interesting part of

it.

Q. Murshid, how do we know when the dream is to be interpreted upside down?

A. Well, it is very difficult to distinguish, yet you can know from the condition of your mind. No

sooner you are upset always there is that upside-down dream. As soon as you are afraid of

somebody, doubting, suspecting somebody, somebody has hurt you, disheartened you, discouraged

you, you are quite upset. I think you can be certain that is the dream that always comes; all that you

see is quite contrary to what it ought to be or what it is.



Q. Murshid, the situations in the dream, for instance the world we experience in the dream in the

space, these towns, are they in the space, somewhere in the sphere? The world we

experience in dream, does it exist as fine matter in the sphere? A. Yes, that sphere is another dimension, another sphere.

Q. But dimension of this sphere?

A. No, another sphere, but there is a correspondence between that sphere and this sphere. But

dream is exactly the same as imagination; there is no difference, no difference between

imagination and dream, except that with imagination our senses are conscious of the outside

life and with dream our senses are closed and the dream is clear. So if you call dream

imagination or imagination dream, both are right.

Q. Why do you dream in symbols? When you dream in symbol, next time it is no symbol any

more, you dream it directly, not in symbol.

A. Yes, but maybe that next time you will not dream of that symbol. If you dream of that symbol,

it only means that that symbol made a deep impression upon you; that symbol comes again

and again.

Q. Why do we dream in symbol and not directly?

A. I will tell you, that there is a part of mind which is subtle, and there is a part of mind which is

poetic and loves symbol, and because it loves symbol unconsciously it works into symbol.

Therefore the more a person loves symbols, the more symbols are in his dream.

Q. If three people have the same dream, are they of the same evolution?

A. Not necessarily. It only shows that they are under the same influence.

Q. There were three people who dreamed of a bishop who was dancing. The second and third

invented a fun in that time … which corresponded to that as a symbol …

A. Yes, it is one influence over them.

Q. What is exactly the difference between the dream and the hereafter?

A. It is exactly the same. Only the dream is when you make the dream clear; it is made clear in

comparison to this world, the world of senses. And therefore that becomes dream because

this contradicts the other. The hereafter is not contradicted. It is the contradiction which makes it

dream, and the outer world contradicts the world which you have seen. But hereafter exists and

therefore there is nothing to contradict the hereafter. But the sphere, the dimension is the same. You

dream in the same dimension where the soul will live in the hereafter.

Q. Is the hereafter also in symbols as the dream?



A. The whole life is a symbol. Everything we do and all that happens is a symbol, if you know it.

Q. In the night, when you wake up, sometimes you have the feeling that you have learnt

something, you have a strong impression of some experience. Is there anything you can do to

get it back? A. When a person has it, then the teaching is there, you need not remember it, you need not try

to remember it, you strain your mind for nothing, because that teaching you have received is

assimilated by your spirit; you will express it in the form of intuition, in the form of inspiration.

Q. Murshid, is imagination symbolical too?

A. No, you never imagine with will. You think when there is a will, then you think. When there is

no will, then there is imagination. Imagination is that action of mind which comes without

invitation. The mind being attracted is moving, is making something. That is imagination. But

when you have directed the mind.….. Suppose I am sitting here and thinking or I thought …

Q When we dream do we get in the plane above this one, or in a still higher sphere, in djinn

plane?

A. We can be in any sphere. But in reality we are always in all spheres. Only we are not

conscious, and it is not possible to be conscious of two spheres at the same time, as it is

impossible to hear two sounds at the same time. Your ears can never discriminate, your ears can

never enjoy fully the vibrations of two sounds together. Never. It is only one sound that your ears can

fully experience and get a profit by it.

Q. Therefore complicated chords and inharmonious chords have a confusing effect?

A. Not only complicated chords, but even most harmonious chords. It is not possible.

Q. When we are sleeping, are we in the dream sphere always?

A. No, not always. Sometimes you are in the dream sphere, sometimes in a still higher sphere.

Q. Even the ordinary person?

A. Even the ordinary person.

Q. Sometimes we have a vision which is of great importance for our life and it is not always in

sleeping state. We are not wakened and not sleeping. Is it another sphere?

A. Yes, it is a condition of Kemal. Kemal is between two states, between physical dimension and

the dimension of the djinns. It is between mental and physical planes. Vision sometimes ……

That only means that the senses are almost covered, although not fully covered, and then that

condition comes.

Q. Just something of the future happens; we see things very clearly. It often happens some



years later in life.

A. It is either the past or it is present or it is future. It is not always one thing or the other; it is not

always future or past or present. It may be anything.

Q. Murshid, are there souls who immediately after the physical death remain for some time in

the sphere between the physical and the mental?

A. Yes. They don’t remain, but they are more inclined towards the physical. Therefore they

attach themselves to the plane where they are buried or burnt, or the place where they died or

the room or place or house or the people they loved or hated. They are attached around.

Q. Do they experience those conditions?

A. They can experience, for instance, just like the living person who is deep and who is evolved

can experience other conditions, through the mediumship of another person. So the dead can

experience through the person who is inclined to become a medium for them. That means that

through the eyes of others they can see, through their ears they can hear, through the tongue they can

speak, through the hands of the other person they can write. They have to find a medium in order to

come closer to the earth.

Q. Once they are wakened in the mental plane, do they forget the earth plane?

A. No, it is not everyone who forgets. That is the Sufi education: to try and keep detached from

all that belongs to the physical and to try and study and know that it does not belong to us, it

is not ours, always keep detached.

Q. Murshid, if we must keep detached, why must we experience the physical life?

A. To experience the physical life is different from attaching. If we did not experience, then there

is no occasion for detaching. We can only detach after attaching ourselves.

Q. Must we take for granted that the spirit of all human beings leaves the body during sleep?

A. Not entirely. But just like a mother who is patting the child to go to sleep and while patting the

child on the back she is nodding. But while she is nodding she is patting the child just the

same. The same condition it is with the other sphere, that when a person is asleep he is in another

dimension. Yet he is patting his physical just the same, “You are there, my being, I have not yet left

you.” A soul is most particular of his own being, so particular the person is holding it tight. If not, the

soul would fly. The soul is so eager to leave the body, it is so eager to fly from the body. But the mind

is so attached, it is holding it so tight and fighting. The mind is saying, “Keep here, keep here, I am, I

am the body, this is myself, keep it, keep it!” The soul is eager to fly away all the time.

Q. If a person is very unhappy, worried after a night’s sleep, exhausted in the morning, or ill, and

the whole morning always feeling very tired, might it be accounted for the fact that he is

holding in some way to himself?



A. Perhaps you mean indifferent, disinterested. Well, of course it depends in what way it

manifests. A sick man may be tired, also a worried person, a guilty person who has to go

before the court. A person who is ill can be tired. But a person who has so evolved that he feels

indifferent to everything, that is a different thing. Than that is a kind of soul. Soul wants to fly. That is a

greater strength (struggle).

Q. Murshid, what is the condition of a person who dreams his daily life, but in a changed

condition?

A. So there is some impression in you about those persons. That impression is there, is a fear, a

doubt, a suspicion, an imagination about the other person; and that makes the person who

dreams, that person, in that condition.

Q. Sometimes it occurred to me that I was thinking about something, a certain matter, suddenly

there came an impression of something that has passed long ago at a distant place. How do I

get that sudden flash of impressions? It seems to have nothing to do with the things I was

thinking of. Where is the connection of the past? A. Well, sometimes it is from the thought of someone, and sometimes your subconscious mind.

That impression is rooted in your subconscious mind. At that time it manifests to view.

Q. …. road with stones, half way ready, then piles of stones lying ready …

A. There were stones and bricks ready to be laid down. You have seen the difficulty because the

road was not paved. Then there was some way made. That which was made was the

smoothness and easiness in life. And then there is a little difficulty, but the solution of the difficulty is

there, because everything is ready. That means that there was a difficulty and solution both.

Q. A person in a balloon, first high, then above and down, then lower. Then he saw a white

fortress, soldiers shooting at him, could not touch him. He landed in a scenery so beautiful as

we do not see it here. A. Well, it is near to it. A person was exposed to opposition, and either by planetary condition or

by his own evolution he kept above the oppositions; and that he was saved from being

touched by opposite thoughts or acts.

Q. A person standing in the sea. There came waves higher than himself. Every time the waves

came at his feet, they broke.

A mureed: I think it is life. The waves are the difficulties. I think when you look at them with faith they

break.

A. When you dream it you need not have faith. Dream itself is the proof of your faith.



23.7.26 The effect of thought on food and drink.

Friday

I would like to speak this evening on the effect of thought on food and drink.

There is a sacrament given in Church, and it is meant that it has the blessing; may be that

interpretations may be different, but at the same time that is the main thought in it. Among ancient

Sufis they called Tabaruk, and that was a glass or syrup, or a piece of bread or cake was given with a

certain thought, thought for cure, inspiration, or for the well being of the person. And the same showed

itself in blessing. I have seen a healer in India who used to give almonds upon which he wrote a

certain name for the people to eat. And there is an illness in India, a fever that comes alternatively

after four days, or after eight days, or after ten days, and then it makes a habit each four days or each

ten days or each three days it comes. After eating the almonds for three days it was finished, never

came again. But there is a still more interesting story, that I came to Hyderabad, a young musician

without any letter of recommendation, without any help, to go to the Nizam of Hyderabad. And I had a

great difficulty, even such a difficulty that I could not speak about it to anyone. They thought what a

presumption for a young man who has not yet made his name and built his reputation to even imagine

such a thing. And since then I gave up seeing people and asking them for help. But the motive was

there. And then I happened to come in a place where a woman lived under the shade of a tree. They

say she was in age, she was more than hundred years, some said she was three hundred years of

age, but I do not know. And she never spoke with people, she just sat there. And a friend brought me

to see this woman, and I at once felt that there was something wonderful about her. And at that time

she had an earthen bowl in her hand, and she was eating from it, and as I went near her to greet, in

answer to my greeting she took a little food with the same hand she was eating and gave me. She had

no fork. I first looked here and there, and my friend said, “Take it”, so I at once stretched my hand and

took what she gave. And the same week I was called at the court, I was presented at the court, and

had what I desired at that time.

Often I have seen people most restless, disappointed, heartbroken, down hearted, depressed, were

given a spoonful of milk-pudding by a saint or sage, I have seen it, and after having that spoon of milk-

pudding they were all right. Outwardly it was milk-pudding, inwardly it was the life itself that was given.

But as there is a magnetism of thought so strong that it goes in the food, so there is a magnetism of

bad thought, that can go in the food also. If you make the cook angry in the house, and when she is

grumbling in the kitchen, and cooking at the same time, that means that it is sure that somebody in the

house will be ill. Naturally, because she is cooking her thought together with the food.

And then there is directed thought which is given in food or drink, and that comes from black magic.

Those who wish to cause a hurt or harm to a person, they give a person some food or drink, but that is

poison. And they give with the thought it will become poison for them. No doubt evil rebounds and if

the other is ill, they are killed in the end. But at that time it has its effect just the same.



And then there are thoughts which work unconsciously in the food. In Persian language it is called

Nazr abad, that means evil eye that falls in the food, in the water. But that is unconsciously.

Sometimes evil eye falls on the water or food because the man is thirsty, or the man wants to eat it.

He would like for himself. Unconsciously; he has no desire to cause a harm by it. Merely by think that:

I would like to have that food or that drink. That itself can cause a terrible reaction, imagine; in the East

there is the understanding of this, and therefore although they live in the tropical country, but when it is

to take food, they sit in a place where evil eye cannot fall. Here, in Paris, where climate is different,

here people would like to sit in the street to eat or drink. One might think they never have the

experience of the evil eye. They have not the experience because they do not know it. But they have

the experience just the same. When a person is eating outside the house, and everybody is coming

and going, looking at him, naturally one person looks at it, and that has an effect just the same. If a

person’s eye has bad effect, that effect goes into the food. And what generally they do in the East if

someone has seen it, then they call that person to join them and partake the food, or they give that

person, that he is satisfied. Then there is no bad effect. Or some of it they leave in the corner, that the

insects or animals will eat. And they make a thought that all the bad effect is gone in the little part that

they have put away. Of course that is a good feeling, but at the same time it has its effect just the

same. Sometimes it can be avoided by that process. It is also for that reason that there has come a

custom in the East, that anyone who is eating in the railway compartment or somewhere, he calls the

other man who is there, whether he is rich or poor, he calls him, “Will you partake of this?” No doubt

one might think does it not come from his feeling of hospitality, or does it come from his wealth, from

his evil eye? But there is that idea just the same. Out of this customs have come which have made

people more hospitable. If one touches something that is eatable, or something that one drinks, then

that has an effect; effect of the same thought that is put in it for the cure or for well being, or for

success, or for illumination, or for upliftment, or for comfort, or for sleep, or if there is a thought on the

contrary. It is therefore always wise to know of this, and to keep one’s food and drink pure from

influences which could be harmful, and especially when you are meditative, when you are seeking for

truth, when you are busy practicing spiritual practices, then you are more negative naturally. When

you are more negative you are more susceptible to influences, and if you do not discriminate between

it, it is very bad.

Q. If you have to eat in a restaurant where everyone looks at it, how can you neutralize that

effect?

A. You can neutralize it by saying, “Towards the One, ….” In mind. Because then you are

directing the food also to the One, the spirit of oneness and the illuminated souls; that purifies

it from all influences.

Q. There is a custom in the West that servants go round and serve it, is it not very good?

A. It is not very good. They must be given that. If there was a wise landlady she must give the

servant first.



Q. The healing effect through food, can that not be given in other ways just as strong? For

instance by blessing? Healer has given healing through food.

A. Yes, that is not the only way; that is one of the ways.

Q. In restaurants they have another dreadful habit, the waiter shows the food, looks hard at it,

breathes on it, and then at last he gives it. What is a thorough……

A. A thorough reaction is to say three times, “Towards the One……”

Q. I am interested in the management of the Sufi boarding-house, we want to make the kitchen

nice and pure.

A. The chef must be told and say, “Towards the One……..”

Q. Murshid, will you please explain from a scientific point of view what takes place when the food

is spoiled, is it the vibrations?

A. Well, you see, it is the inharmonious vibration enters in the vibration of the food. Because

food is vibrating just the same, and thought is vibrating. IF it is an inharmonious thought it

turns the food in inharmonious vibrations.

Q. How is it that in the West we do not know about it?

A. It goes on every day, only people do not realize it, they do not know the cause, and they do

not see it.

Q. In Italy they have a custom of keeping the fingers in a certain way when they are afraid of the

evil eye.

A. It has a meaning no doubt, that it is equalizing the rhythm; the rhythm which has become

upset, it makes a kind of balance, it equalizes. But that is not sufficient. What is sufficient is

the mantra, affirmation, because the affirmation turns one’s thought to act upon the food. For

instance, a Moslem never eats without repeating certain mantras, certain Surahs upon the

food.

Q. What occurred with the food that the old lady gave you?

A. That was only symbolical action; she had the symbology that the food was the support, the

patronage. And as I came to her she was supposed to be the Representative of the higher

kingdom, and that was the gift of the higher kingdom. In return to that I was presented at the

court, and received from the king exactly the same gift.

Q. How could the king know about it?

A. That has nothing to do with this. She was only a symbology. In answer to that another

incidence came, that was symbolical, that was the reaction.



Q. The food was a symbol of divine blessing?

A. Of the blessing; divine blessing.

Q. If it had been another woman, would it have had the same effect?

A. Every person’s evolution gives a greater effect. But I think that the bad thought of anyone can

reach you. It is the difficulty in reaching the good thought. But bad thought, that person may

be of the lowest evolution, if he has a bad thought it at once reaches you.

Q. If you feel that someone is sending you bad thought, how can you protect yourself?

A. Well, the best thing for that is to do the Zikar. Zikar is the greatest protection.

Q. Would you explain about Zikar still more?

A. Well, that is all; by the Zikar you make a sign with your glance over your body, and on your

body, and that keeps away every influence.

Q. Murshid, would it be advisable to say “Towards the One…”at all meals?

A. Oh, yes, safe, secure, always for everyone. I think everyone must make a habit always to

begin, a habit with everything, even if you go out, to say that formula, when you go to eat,

when you go to bed, when one gets up. It is the best formula, the best habit to take away bad

influences, and it puts you on the track of the illuminated souls, and leads to God. Even if you

do a worldly thing it leads to God. Therefore everything you do it leads towards the highest; it

is the best formula you can say.

Q. “Bismillah” also effective?

A. Yes, but this is the present formula. It is the formula of this time, therefore its power is

greater. One must always use the greater power. The power of Bismillah was when the

Message was given before. Now this is the current coin; it is the same said by the Muslims, this is said

by us.

Q. If someone has the evil eye, then has it no effect when one says the formula?

A. No effect, because your thoughts have harmonized the whole atmosphere, then you are not

influenced and touched by other person’s vibrations. Your vibrations will become stronger

because your vibrations will be directed by the vibrations of God, the perfect Being, and the

illuminated beings. You at once give yourself in the hands of God and of the illuminated beings.

Therefore you are protected from all sides.

Q. Murshid, also say the prayer before every meal?

A. Yes, that is very good. “Towards the One…….” first, and that is the second.



Q. If a member of the Star of the East comes and asks, “Do you believe your Murshid to be the

incarnation of Christ?”

A. First of all I would like my mureeds to know that the Sufi Message apart, and the work that

God has destined us to do in the world apart, when it comes to your Murshid, the first thing is

that your devotion to your Murshid must be incomparable and to the other person. It is natural. Just

like a child who is devoted to his mother or father; what the child’s mother is to him is something so

deep and it is something so great, and it is something so wonderful, that no one else can ever

conceive or feel what it is. It is something beyond words, the child to his mother, and for the child the

mother is something beyond explanation. Is it not so? It is so. Words can never…… you can never

weigh it, you can never measure it, you can never find its end. Exactly the same it is with the real

mureed with his Murshid. To what extent there is depth in the devotion and their feeling, and in the

sympathy and in the link, that no other person can understand it; and therefore you are always free to

say that this something which is something sacred to me and deeply felt in my heart, is not something

that I can discuss and compare with you and explain to you in words.

Now besides this, if I were to tell you that I am so and so and so and so, this would not give you

anything, and if I told you that I am this or I am that, then it would be a taught belief, a belief which I

have taught you to believe; I would rather not do it. Besides, truth is its own evidence. What is true will

sound itself in every heart sooner or later. Either the heart is not ready yet, or little ready, or fully

ready, as the sound will reach (echo) through a gong, me the truth will echo through hearts. Message

of God is the truth, that must echo sooner or later through the heart, and no claims, no proclamations,

no recommendations, no pleadings will make anything true which is not true. And what is true cannot

be spoiled or denied or stopped. What is true will prove to be true in the end. That is our situation. You

learn the path of ……… of God, the path of philosophy without any claim on my part. Let your heart

tell you about the Message, about your Murshid. On the part of Murshid there is not attempt to let you

feel to know what Murshid is. Besides, is it not enough to know that Murshid is your friend, your father,

your counselor, someone who understands you, someone who stands by you in struggle, in sorrows,

in joys? That is enough. We shall work together, we shall stand hand in hand, do the service to

humanity. We do not want any claims, we do not want to say I am this or I am that.



26.7.26 The spirit of the mureed

Monday

I wish to speak on the subject of the spirit of the mureed. The teacher has two responsibilities: to look

after his fragile spirit, and to look after the spirit of the mureed, which very often is asleep, and

sometimes a conflict arises, that the teacher is very often on the point of breaking his own spirit while

wanting to maintain the spirit of his mureed. Very often it is that the mureed, without knowing is

holding the glass-like spirit of his teacher, and unconsciously is on the point of throwing it against the

rock. And the moment the teacher says, “please do not throw it”, the teacher has lost his spirit as well

as the spirit of the mureed. Why has the teacher lost his spirit? Because the moment the mureed

knows that the teacher’s spirit is in his hand, and he can throw it in a moment, no more the teacher is

a teacher in the eyes of the mureed. The mureed thinks that the teacher’s spirit is stronger than the

rock, but he cannot know that in spite of the strength that the teacher’s spirit has, it is more fragile than

glass. A conflict which may always arise and no one knows it. People talk about delicacy. There is no

greater delicacy than the relation between the teacher and the pupil on the spiritual path.

In the East they have a fighting of birds, partridges, and they enjoy this fight very much. But when the

two birds are fighting, the owners of these birds are looking, watching carefully the fight. And as soon

as one of them sees that, “my bird may lose”, before allowing his bird to know that he may lose, he lifts

him up and tells the other man, “I accept the defeat”. But he does not let the little bird accept the

defeat.

That is another thing that the teacher should consider, that the enthusiasm and the vigor of the

mureed in life’s conflict may not be injured, may not be broken; his spirit may be maintained under all

conditions in life, and no one can do better than the spiritual teacher. There are strong mureeds and

there are weak ones, there are clear-minded ones, and there are confused ones; and there are those

who are delighted by one word, and who are dead by another word, as dead. And if their spirit is not

looked after, instead of going forward they may go backwards.

But as I have said that the teacher must take care at the same time of his spirit. Thousands and

thousands and thousands of teachers have lost their spirit for this reason, in the conflict of maintaining

the spirit of their mureeds. It is a hard struggle, and only the power of Truth can sustain the teacher in

this terrible struggle. And as I have already said that if for the true one it is so very difficult, how much

more difficult must it be for the false one! He must be pitied most for doing the profitless work. And the

real profit that could be got from it is lost from his hands. The ideal, which is Truth, he never gets,

because he starts with falsehood and ends in falsehood.

Now very often there is a wobbling faith, most often, and the pupil has no power to balance himself.

He goes on wobbling, wobbling, and the teacher has to hold him. If the teacher holds it with both

hands his own spirit may drop. He has to hold it with one hand, and in one other hand he must keep



his spirit. Because even the greatest teacher, in the presence of the one who has lost his belief, his

faith, has a great difficulty with his own spirit. Because the universe is automatic, it is just like a fish

without water. The one who expects response and has no response, and the one who expects

sympathy and has no sympathy, the one to whom faith is due and has no faith, he feels without

sustenance. So he must keep his (own) spirit and at the same time the spirit of the one that has lost

the faith. His task is difficult, and if he says, “I do not care”, then that shows that there is no teacher

there. The teacher must care, it is his work, how can he not care? Then the mureed feels disappointed

if things in life go wrong with him. And it is very often that when you are on the spiritual path that things

go wrong with you. Because now you have adopted another rhythm and now you are striking another

path. Naturally things go wrong. And the mureed begins to think that “since I have taken the hand of

my teacher, now I am going backwards.” Perhaps his health has something wrong with him, or

perhaps money matters wrong, business not right, or his friends not as sympathetic as they have been

before. And when the teacher wants to give him the hand, the teacher must know that he is in the

water at the same time. It is not that the one who is sinking is sinking; but he himself is in the water.

The sinking pupil may drag him also with him and make him sink. He must be moving his legs and

hands at the same time while picking up, while holding the mureed from sinking down.

And the third thing is that there comes a time when a mureed gets an idea which does not fit in with

the teacher’s idea. It does not mean that it does not fit in with the teacher’s idea, but he does not allow

the teacher’s idea to fit in. In the teacher’s mind an idea is always fitting. But the mureed does not

allow the teacher’s idea to fit in with his own. That is a hard time for a teacher too. By trying to fit in

with the mureed he may lose his spirit, and if he does not fit in with the mureed, then the mureed is

lost.

And besides these three examples which I have given, there is a fourth example which is apart from

these three usual cases, and that example is when one has to do something with a moody mureed. In

one mood he is on the top of the clouds and in the other mood he is at the bottom of the ocean. In one

mood he considers you higher than heaven, and in the other mood you are nothing whatever to him.

His ideal rises and falls very quickly. He can praise you one moment. He can believe you one moment

and he can disbelieve in you the other moment. And there are many of that type; and the most of them

are mediumistic. It is a mediumistic type. And sometimes there are still more wonderful phenomena of

this type; that this type has got a vision that, “My teacher was the greatest mahatma”, that he was

sitting on his throne of gold and diamonds and rubies around him, and all light shining everywhere.

After that vision this mureed comes and says, “Your are like God. There is no one, there is nothing like

you. You are everything: I have seen the vision.” And perhaps next day he has seen another vision;

that vision is quite different. And that vision makes his faith destroyed. - What about that teacher who

with this vision would feel so confident and so proud and pleased with the mureed? He will be beneath

the ground. When the mureed says, “I have seen a vision, from that time I have lost my faith”, what

can you do? And remember, there are numberless examples of this. And then there is a third type in

the mediumistic type again, (these are to be classified as mediumistic types) that at one moment this



mureed thinks that, “All my teacher says is right, all my teacher says is good”, and then other times he

has a different idea. In that particular time, when he is in favor, there is nothing he will not do. But

when he is in disfavor, then he can stand against you, he can criticize you

~~~~~~~~~~

Q. Could you explain perhaps a little more about the teacher’s spirit being also broken? It seems

such a very difficult thought.

A. What I would like to say is this, that the teacher’s spirit is no doubt harder than the spirit of the

pupil; it must be. But at the same time the teacher’s spirit is more fragile than the mureed’s. If

it were not fragile it would not be so transparent to let the divine light come into the world. It needs to

be transparent. In order to be transparent it is fragile. Therefore it always takes the risk of breaking. As

I say, the path of a master, the path of the saint, who starts apart from the world, is easier in this way

in that they do not knock against the world. But the path of the Prophet, of the teacher, is most difficult,

because he has to be in the midst of the world, in the midst of the whole struggle, and he has to be as

fine as one can be fine, and at the same time as gross, as strong as one can be. And that is a great

struggle within oneself, with one’s own self. Because it is two contrary things. How could you be so

strong and at the same time so fine? It is easy to become strong and not fine, it is easy to become fine

and not strong. But to become both is kemal. Kemal is a great destruction.

There was a fine king, his name was Tamasha, that when he was conquered they said, “He must be

killed”. Somebody said, “Why do you want to kill him with the sword? It is most easy to kill him”. They

said, “How?” “Take something which smells bad, somebody should take it in his presence, he will pass

away. That is all.” And certainly he died after that.

So, as I say, that a man can be so fine and someone can be so gross, but to be so fine and at the

same time so gross, that is most difficult. It is the greatest difficulty there is. And therefore the same

example the representatives must adopt, that they must be aware of the struggle. That is the destiny

of the teacher. And it is that continually. It is not rare, it is always that, always. Minds that you cannot

depend upon change quicker than weather, and you have to deal with those minds, and train them,

and rear them and water them and take care of them.

Q. Murshid, that is the saint and the master both?

A. Yes, that is kemal, as I say.

Q. Murshid, can the teacher really love such minds as that?

A. You see, the Teacher - there is a stage when the teacher arrives to the point where it is not

that he loves, but he becomes love, he turns into love. Then alone he can stand. That is the

fineness and the grossness. It is the great power of love that is the grossness, and it is the great

feeling of love that is the fineness. It is out of love that he can forgive and tolerate and withstand. If

there was no love he could not do it. That is his power, the secret of the teacher. No other magic, it is

the love-power.

Q. Murshid, what is the condition of that woman who did that? Now she will not trust any teacher

any more. Her faith seems to be shattered, completely shattered. (the little woman in Detroit



who in an open meeting accused her teacher.)

A. Besides that it is something very wrong done to the person. Granted that the teacher was

undeserving; yet it is very wrong to have done what she did. If I would have thought that the

devil was my teacher and found him out, I would have bowed before him, for even once having called

him my teacher. And perhaps my faith would have turned him from a devil to a saint.

Q. She thought she was doing good to others.

A. Yes, but even Christ has said, “Judge ye not”. Who knows? If one thinks that the person is not

right, the best one can do is to retire from there, say, “Good bye, now we have nothing to do

any more with one another”. That is all. It is too hard for a person to strike. She struck him too hard.

Q. Murshid, does that mean that if you are along with a person you should never tell him he is

wrong, in words? Or unspokenly tell him not in words?

A. I find it so very difficult to correct anybody, even the little child. Correcting is so very difficult.

And when it comes to correcting a person in words, it makes me feel that it is really

descending to the deepest depths of the earth, and therefore I think that the only correcting is

patience, patience. Let time come, let time correct them. Wish for it, hope for it; that is all.

Nevertheless, I will always advise my representatives to be extremely conscientious in correcting

mureeds. It does not do in the end to correct them roughly. Besides it is not in the spiritual path. It is all

right for the factory men to be told by their chief that they must do this or that, or for the soldiers to be

told by the captain to do this or that. But when it comes to the initiator and mureed, it is most delicate.

The mureeds must be trained, if they cannot be trained, then you must wait that they see from your

eyes your pleasure and displeasure. Because for the spirit of the teacher it annihilates it, for the

teacher to be so gross as that, so dense as to have to say to the mureed, in words. It simply makes

the heart so heavy that it drops down to the ground, a heart which should be so light as to levitate.

Because it is the heart that is the sign of resurrection. When the body is left here, it is the heart which

will rise upwards. This heart must be kept light on its wings that it may rise the moment it wishes to

rise. And that is the teacher’s responsibility.

Q. Murshid, can the tie between a mureed and the teacher ever be entirely broken after

initiation?

A. Well, if it is ever broken it is on the part of the mureed, not on the part of the Murshid.

Murshid will always maintain the thread, the tie, no matter what happened. But if the mureed

does not wish the tie, then that is the mureed’s fault. But still Murshid takes care of the mureed, just

the same even then.

Q. Some day he will wish it?

A. Yes.

Q. If you have mureeds that drop away, and you perhaps do not think that they are very

desirable, still try to get them back or leave them?

A. No, I would not try to get them back. I would leave them for life to teach them more. But

inwardly I would be wishing their welfare and well-being. And inwardly I would wish in every

way that they will be protected, that I would not let them go out of my sphere of prayers or thought.

Only that they are holding themselves back, it is their responsibility.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



28.7.26 Personal Power

Wednesday

I would like to speak on the subject of personal power. By personal power what do I mean: the power

of thought, the power of will, and the same expressing itself outwardly. It is therefore that the sages, in

order to develop personal power, give one key, and that key is the whole mystery. This key is the

control of impulse; every impulse, whatever it may be. And specially in order to practice this control,

one must check a wrong impulse, even as small as the thought of eating something that one likes, the

wish to drink something that one wishes, an impulse to talk back to a person who insults, an impulse

to pinch a person by saying a word, an impulse to hurt a person by cutting words, an impulse to get

into the secret of others, to find out the secret of other, the impulse to criticize; all such undesirable

impulses can be mastered. And it is not that one has mastered them, but one has gained a power over

himself. That is another advantage.

In the court of Akbar (you know Akbar was the wisest Emperor in the Mogul dynasty), because he was

witty and appreciation of all wisdom and beauty, he had chosen nine persons to keep close to him.

You might think: an emperor who could have at least fifty persons in his presence! No, no, through the

whole empire of so many millions of people he had nine persons selected to be around him. What

were they? They were personified wits, a wit which is personified in a human being.

The power lies in refraining from the impulse of speaking. Often one gives one’s secret to another

uselessly; afterwards one repents for it. Sometimes one uselessly has a quarrel with another; neither

the other has gained nor he himself. Sometimes one criticizes another before someone, and then it

goes to a third one and fourth one; everybody knows about it. Nothing is gained, only lost. Sometimes

also there is a desire for food, a desire to drink, to sleep, to walk, or a desire to sit. Everyone of these

little desires can be checked, and by checking them, by keeping them back, by controlling them, one

can attain to this power of personality. By power of personality your words become living; by glance,

by touch, by speech, by every move you make an effect.

Very often people like to find by occultism or by psychic science the way of developing will power. But

will power is only developed by refraining from impulse. A person who refrains his impulse can be free

from all insolence. And what is insolence? Insolence is the germ of bad luck. And insolent person will

always have bad luck, because insolence is a kind of cloud. It always brings a person down. Very

often insolent person is a slave to his impulse; it is his impulse at the time. He cannot help it. And

afterwards he repents. Especially when a person is not able to keep his secret, he has much to suffer

in life, because that power is most helpful, the power of keeping secret. Besides that, if there is a

desire, an ambition, an expression, if it is kept in secret it flourishes, it grows, it rises, it becomes

fruitful. But if it is spoken about it is lost.

Q. Murshid, what is the difference between inspiration and impulse.



A. Inspiration is something which comes in the form of beauty: poetry, music, some idea; and

impulse is that there are grapes on the table and when I look at them I feel like taking one at

once; or there are two persons speaking about something and there jumps up a desire that I should

answer it too, I should join in. Or there is someone a little sympathetic, more sociable to you and then

the impulse is: I shall pour out all my heart to him and be empty. Then he feels lighter, he feels lighter

then, but lighter what? Lighter without treasure, empty purse, the purse he had is empty. But there are

strong impulses, such as a person makes an insult, that there is an impulse to speak back or a person

tells a lie – there is the impulse to tell the truth; or a person does wrong and there is an impulse to

correct him. But it is an impulse just the same.

Q. What is the origin of impulse?

A. Impulse is a reaction of something which is going on outside. You react; that is an impulse. As

I have said, when you look at grapes, what do grapes suggest to you? That suggestion comes

again as an impulse, that you must have them.

Q. In mind?

A. Yes, our mind reacts to what is before us.

Q. Murshid, how can we find the balance between this principle you told this evening, and the

idea that asceticism for its own sake is not advisable; that we should enjoy life and the beauty

of life, all. A. Well, as I have said, when I say anything like this, it does not mean that this is the principle

for all. This is only said in connection with increase of personal power; and when it comes to

asceticism, it is quite another question, quite a separate thing.

Q. Asceticism is a principle necessary in the spiritual path for every person?

A. Yes, but a weak person cannot tread the spiritual path; the person must be strong. Because it

is a battle all through. When he is weak, a person will be shattered to pieces on the way, his

nerves will be shattered to pieces. He cannot go on. It is a terrible battle. And in order to get

strength we must gain strength; we must develop it; we must get it.

Q. May we do it systematically?

A. No. But suppose you found out there were five bad things in you, or ten bad things, impulses

which you should check, just go on working with it every day. Take one; suppose a person

found out that, “I have the weakness of being hurt immediately by anyone, that a person says

something hard to me, and then answering it back. If a person has realized, then take that one thing

and then practice it every day.

Q. How does this person practice this principle? He has worked for hours and hours, he is very



hot and thirsty, he comes to a place where he can drink very fresh water. Is it advisable not to

drink?

A. No, it is not that. Impulse is different. When you are thirsty and when you are really in need of

water, when a person is dying without water, when he is refraining from drinking it….

Controlling of impulse is something different. Sometimes the day is very warm, you feel like drinking

fifty times a day, and you know that if you do you will not be able to eat, you will not be able to digest,

it will not do you any good; it will only for that moment quench the thirst, but it will not be good for the

system. If you refrain that impulse, you will be doing some good and at the same time increasing the

power. But when you are thirsty and it is necessary for your body to have water, and then say you do

not wish to have it, that is not the idea.

Q. If somebody has become quite indifferent, what to advise him?

A. The first thing is that anyone is not in a position, I mean that anyone cannot keep the interest

in the same things. Insight changes. As a person evolves, so a person rises above things.

Maybe the person is not interested in the things in which he was interested. That person is more

interested. If he is not interested, it means there is something of more interest and that person says,

very politely he says, “I am not interested. I am very sorry.” Many people say politely, “I am very sorry,

I cannot take an interest in the things in which I took interest last year. I cannot take interest this year.”

Maybe the person has risen above it. He may have found something finer as an occupation or study or

thought, or as something. You must inquire into that person. A person who brings his complaints, this

person will never say the depth of his heart. And very often a person will not say, “I have risen above

things;” that he cannot enjoy any more. If a person is fine he will say, “I am sorry, I cannot enjoy it any

more.” A child who says, “I have risen above my dolls” is right, but it is not beautiful to say. But

someone who says, “I would like to see now the others play with the dolls, the little ones,” that is

another thing. It only depends upon the spiritual growth of the person. We never can judge. Besides,

why this year should be the same as it was yesterday, or why the person would be the same as he

was yesterday? Life is every moving and changing. Why should not a person go forward?



30.7.26 the Sufi Message as the rain of this year, this season

Friday

Sufism as a philosophy is one thing and Sufism as the Message is another thing; and when you take

the Sufi Message, it means the rain of this year, the rain of this season. And if a person says that the

rain that came three years ago, from that rain I filled my tanks, and I have sufficient water to last for

twelve years more, yet you still have an argument to make that the tanks which were filled by the rain

three years ago, that water is water, and yet that magnetism, that electricity, that life, that vigor, that

energy which is to be found in the fresh water coming from the sky is different, it cannot be compared.

And if it was meant that the rain of five years ago or ten years ago must be the answer for the demand

of the earth, then every season there would be no rain. Because it rains every year, that itself proves

the theory that every year needs a rain. As it is necessary that every year there should be a rain, so it

is also necessary that every cycle must have at its end God Message. Sufi Message therefore is not

Sufi philosophy. Sufi philosophy is apart, Sufi Message is the rain of this season. It comes to answer

the demand for the rain.



2.8.26 The giving of Bayat / The living dead

Monday

I again wish to say a few words on the same subject I have once spoken before, the giving of the

Bayat, of initiation.

In the Sufi schools where there is a Murshid and who receives those who come to his schools it is

different. There is this tendency that: “I should become a mureed of this particular Murshid” is right.

But where there is a world Movement, and Representatives are appointed for different places, and if

this tendency in a mureed is cherished it gives a bad example to those who will hear about it. And

therefore in the same time not acknowledge it and not allow this tendency to cause us a greater

inconvenience and trouble. Mureeds who will not value the authority given to Representatives will

always make difficulties. By this I do not mean to say that we must strictly follow this rule. No, there

are exceptions. But in making exceptions, if we allow this tendency to develop among them and

spread among mureeds, it will result to our disadvantage. Suppose in a country mureeds wait for six

months or a year till Murshid came there to give them initiation. In that our work is hindered, their

progress is hindered, and besides, an idea which is not the right one is promoted by us acknowledging

that.

And there comes a question whether a person should force them to do it. No one can force them.

Even myself I cannot force them. Those who do not wish to take initiation with me, I have to wait

patiently till they will be ready. None of us can force them; and by forcing it will not be a good result.

But we can make them understand, without reasoning with them too much, by just saying that the first

initiations are given by the Representative, and the later ones, advanced initiations, are given by the

Pir-o-Murshid, and that when they will see Pir-o-Murshid they will receive blessings. So that they have

something to receive from Pir-o-Murshid; so that they are not depressed by having taken initiations in

the hands of his Representatives. But even that must not be considered an incomplete initiation. If not,

one might say, “it will be completed when Pir-o-Murshid will bless you.” That impression must not be

given. Only you must say, “When you go to Murshid you will receive blessing. You will say, “This

initiation will entitle you to special blessing of Pir-o-Murshid.”

And now coming to the subject of individual initiations and collective initiation. How much people like

individual initiations, later on it will be as difficult for me as it will be difficult for my Representatives.

When a large number is coming, and when you will have to give a collective initiation, and when there

are individuals who have enjoyed an individual initiation, they will tell them of their privilege. And those

who had collective initiation will be very displeased that they did not have it. Therefore it is always

advisable, in whatever country it is, to have a ceremonial initiation. Give them the habit. It is an

organization, it is not a school like in the East. Even in the East, Murshids to whom thousands of

people come, how can they give an initiation to an individual? They have to throw a rope, and that

rope is held by hundreds and thousands of people, and the two ends of that rope are held in the hands



of the Murshid. And in that way collective initiation is given. We must not think of today. We must think

of ten years afterwards. And from now on we must give the example. No doubt, now we do not find so

many difficulties and yet there are difficulties and inconveniences with the growing of the work which

we did not find in the beginning. Therefore as it is an organization we must keep all things in their

proper form and with proper ceremonies, and according to the existing rules.

Q. Murshid, there are at the present moment in England several people who are waiting because

they think and hope that if they wait the initiation will be by yourself. Do you desire that they

be told that this will not be the case? That Murshid gives through his Representatives, must

this be clearly stated? A. Yes, but it is a great pity that it happened like that. Yes, but what I say, that belief must not

exist, not to give an existence to that belief in the Sufi Movement. And where there is a

difficult case, it is an exception. But exception is not the rule.

Q. Then, Murshid, even for one person, you wish the ceremonial initiation to be done?

A. Well, that is too much trouble to be taken. I think the best thing is to give that one mureed

privilege of other mureeds, and wait till you have five or more candidates for initiation, then to

give. Let them come before, and give them all privileges. But from the day you have given an initiation,

then to give practices. They can come to the group, they can come to the silences, they can come to

the Gatha meetings.

I again want to repeat that there are three new prayers in Vadan under the heading Gayatri. One is to

Pir, another is to Nabi, another to Rassoul. And they are prescribed first to those initiates who receive

first three initiations. And the prayer to Nabi is used by those who take second three initiation, of the

Advanced Circle. And the third prayer is given to those who receive the third three initiations, of the

Inner Circle.

Q. Is that instead of Saum and Salat?

A. No, it is together with Saum and Salat.

And not today I desire to ask each of you, you are to tell me your impressions about the play you have

seen.

(following is the final interpretation of “The Living Dead” , the interpretation of Pir-o-Murshid himself.)

If I were to say the object of writing this play is that firstly, a real person is often misunderstood, and he

must suffer for it. And at the same time a real person will draw to himself not only the real, but the

unreal, also, all. Thirdly, that responding attitude is the sign of the nobleness of the spirit. The boy

would have got up and said, “Well, I have done nothing, I am innocent; why do you take my life?” He

would have come back and said to his father, “Is there any proof for me having done any wrong? You



look into it and see what I have done.” But there was no effort on his part to defend himself. It is not an

ordinary attitude. It is an exceptional attitude, it is an attitude of a noble soul who does not defend

himself. He gave himself in the hand of destiny, obeyed his father and consoled his mother and took

all upon him which he did not deserve. That all cannot be done if he was not a noble soul.

And then in the prayer, that is the Siraj-un-Munir total of the noble spirit which he has shown. In the

prayer he says it to God. And you can see that it is a noble soul. There is no complaint, there is no

grudge against anyone. There is nothing but good will towards those who cause him displeasure. No

wrath to the father, no complaint to the dancer. And there is not the slightest sense of displeasure

against those who wish to kill him. Perfectly resigned. And that is the sign of the saintly spirit. This is a

lesson on our spiritual path. This is the lesson. Because all these experiences we all have to go

through. As soon as you take the spiritual path, this is the experience you have to go through.

And then, when you go on further, then it shows that how people are drawn by a real sage, and at the

same time how dissatisfied they remain. They are drawn because it is a living magnet, and yet they

are dissatisfied. They are dissatisfied because they cannot understand this language. And no sooner

the man of the ordinary evolution comes and he talks to them, then they can understand and follow

him. This has been the case in all history, and the same case will be always in life. Where there is any

real, people will be drawn, but they will not understand. It will take time. And when there is a false one

come there, he wants to take them away, he can take them away in a moment’s time. Because his

mentality belongs to them, and their understanding belongs to him. Everybody went, just like birds, at

once….. value …. It is such wonderful picture of reality. That is the reality. And who remained? The

one who had suffered, the one who had gone through life’s experience, the one who was serious and

sincere; that one was left. Before him all others seemed children. There was someone beating the

drum, and all went after him to see what he has to say.

And then there is a picture that how much a person may be in the wrong, there comes a time when he

feels dissatisfied with it. And that was the time when Naeka, that she unconsciously felt dissatisfied.

She was wanting the palmist or a soothsayer to come. But it was the dissatisfaction. And therefore the

relationship, the connection, the friendship, that was built on a false foundation did not prove in the

end satisfactory. She found out in the end that the Maharajah did not care so much. The Maharajah

perhaps found out that she was not worth that attention which he gave her before. And that shows

false connection, false friendship, false relationship. How long does it last? It has no foundation, it

cannot stand on its feet. If it was truth it would have stood throughout all tests and difficulties and

troubles. But there was no truth in it; so it fell flat.

And then again it shows the mistake that the Maharajah made. It kept alive and kept Maharajah

uneasy about it. And it drew him away from all that had no truth in it. He was seeking for truth, and

truth was coming in the form of his son. But the seeking was from the part of the Naeka and from the



part of the Maharajah. There was only one seeking, and that was the seeking of the truth. Both were

looking for it. It had to come in the form of the son.

And then it shows that incomparable and limitless love that a mother has for her son. That for her the

whole world, the kingdom and the palace and the comfort, it was all nothing. Without her beloved son

there was nothing for her in the world. And therefore, if there is to be seen a love which stands above

all passion, it is the love of the mother. It is therefore that it has a touch of heavenly compassion,

because it is not an earthly love.

But then it is according to what I have said in this evening’s lecture, that: what are conditions?

Conditions are a preparation a process by which something is accomplished by destiny. And what was

this all, this whole story? This whole story was a preparation for this young man, for him to see fully

how false is the life of the world. And he saw it, and said not one word that it is false. He did not

condemn the world. That is where again a noble spirit is seen. If not, a person who is annoyed with the

world says, “It is all false and wrong and unreliable, unstable.” He said no word. He only said, after

having drunk all the hurt and harm and trouble and pain that fell on him, he said, “Now I am going to

seek another kingdom.” That is all. He does not even say that, “I am going to seek the Kingdom of

God.” Only he says, “another Kingdom.” Even there he does not wish to compare the other kingdom

to the kingdom that his father offered. Even till then there is a humility, a modesty, continued from the

beginning till the end.

That is the way of the saint.

You see, we have given the three plays:

The way of the Prophet: “Ameen”;

Then there was the way of the Master: “The Bogeyman”;

And now this is the third: the way of the saint: “The living dead.”

Q. I remember in Detroit, Swami Yogananda, after you left, he drew hundreds and hundreds, and

received and formed classes of so many that there was no standing room for them. A person

asked me why it was that we could not arrange our Sufi Message to attract people like that.

A. If there was no difficulty with Truth, it could not be Truth. It is Truth because there is so much

difficulty about it.

Q. Murshid, Puran was really one of those you call “Blessed souls”, who never felt the call of the

earth very strongly? Because in the beginning he never felt the attraction of the dancer?

A. That is so. “Puran” means “perfect” in Indian language.



4.8.26 One need not trouble about anybody’s fault

Wednesday

When one is developing on the spiritual path, what must be remembered most is to let everyone else

go on his own path. The treaders on the spiritual path must always remember that by criticizing

another they are not doing any good to themselves or to the others. If another person has a fault, an

adept must know that his very fault will teach him, sooner or later, or his fault will ask of others to

teach him, and to let another get that privilege of correcting him. As soon as an adept exerts his power

to correct others, he loses his path. An adept must be concerned with his own path, and not

concerned with others.

You might think it is a lesson of remoteness, it is an advice to be exclusive, it is a teaching of

indifference. Whatever you may call it, that is the way. It is so heavy on an adept to keep his own

personality in the right way, as it ought to be; in other words to keep his own heart in tune, to keep his

own spirit in the right rhythm. And instead of doing that, when he troubles about another, he loses his

path. There is no kindness, there is no goodness in trying to correct another. There are many in this

world to correct him. The first thing that will correct the wrong-doer is life itself. Life slaps a person

stronger than a person may punish another person. One need not trouble about anybody’s fault. And

however far one has advanced, one must know that the more advanced you are the more faults you

will find with oneself. I do not mean that advancement adds faults; I only mean that advancement

makes your sight so keen that at every stage further, more faults manifest before you, which were

perhaps unknown to you before.

The attitude of the treader on the spiritual path toward the wrong-doer must be of tolerance, of

forgiveness, also of indifference. Just like the Japanese symbol of three monkeys, “See no evil, hear

no evil, speak no evil.” From the moment one takes his first step in the spiritual path, evil finishes.

Finishes in what sense? That he recognizes no more evil! What does it mean? Does it mean he

encourages evil; does it mean he recognizes evil as good; does it mean he loves evil? No, far from it.

It only means he does not judge! And by not judging, does it mean that he knows no more justice? No,

it means he knows more justice, he is now a greater judge. The moment one has left judging, from

that moment he becomes judge. Then he knows what justice means. Does justice mean to condemn

anyone, does justice mean to criticize anyone, does justice mean to insult anyone, does justice mean

to correct anyone? No, justice means to know without knowing, to see and not see, to hear and not

hear! And one might think that, ‘will this negative state not make a person quite a different being?’ And

what does it matter if he becomes a different being! What is one striving after? Is it not truth? That is

what one is striving after. If you are going toward truth, you engage your personality, your attitude,

your outlook, your action. What does it matter! On the contrary, it is what it ought to be. You should

change. Life means change!



But one might say, “Shall I not be different from others?” Yes, naturally you shall be different from

others. You ought to be glad to be different from others, as long as you do not show to the world that

you are different from others. When you begin to show and cry aloud, “I am different from you all,”

then you will fall. And if you do not fall, they will pull you down. But in being different from the others in

your outlook, you do not harm anyone. The principle of anyone who journeys on the spiritual path

must be that he is unassuming, that he is not inclined to judge, that he is not trying to be a teacher; in

other words is not trying to correct others, that he is ready to tolerate, that he is ready to forgive. Also,

he makes no pretence of anything, of knowing something or of being something. Outwardly to be like

everyone, inwardly to be what one is.

Q. Murshid, what you have said just now, does it … good, does it count also for good friends?

A. No. When you are good friends, then there is some responsibility for one another. And where

there is responsibility then you are entitled to say something to one another. But those who

criticize, they don’t criticize their friends, but they criticize their enemies.

Q. I have not understood well in the play that the father condemned his son and that he asked

for forgiveness.

A. Is it not a good thing to ask forgiveness for one’s fault?

Q. Murshid, in the case that at the moment of child-birth the doctor says that either the mother or

the child must be sacrificed, what is the thing to do?

A. I should think that instead of trying to choose one or the other, one should try to save both in

every way possible. In that struggle whoever can be saved is saved.

Q. What exactly happens is that the doctor goes to the husband and leaves the entire

responsibility with him. The question is that invariable he says, “Save my wife.”

A. Well, I would still say that no man has the power of deciding one thing or the other. I think the

best thing is to leave it to God and do every effort to the most to save both lives.

Q. Sometimes an operation is necessary.

A. That is only because mankind goes as far as an action of operation. Therefore that action of

operation becomes just like a wall to go further. But if human mind was not allowed to be

hindered by this wall (he only sees before him the operation and nothing else), then human kind can

do still greater things. For instance, if I were to tell you that among a hundred operations today, if the

human mind were not so lazy as to stop at the operation, ninety-nine operations could be avoided. But

what happens is this, that human kind has invented operations and says, “that is the last process and

there is nothing else.” As soon as mind is fixed there, there is a wall to knock against it. In ancient

times physicians did not stop there. Human mind, when it is striving further and further, can reach a

point, can find a remedy better than operation. But it is psychological; it is the mentality of our day. We

just stop at a certain remedy; we think, there is only one. And if that cannot do anything, then nothing



can do. There is no doubt that the last thing one can think is to do operation. But that again is

limitedness of the thought. If effort and will were greater than that, then that will could do still better,

something that operation is not needed.

Q. Is it really so that the mother or the child must die?

A. I do not see that anybody can say, anyone can say, the mother or child must die.

Q. What about a person who has no other interest in life than the study of philosophy?

A. I should think that that person is philosophy itself: he does not study philosophy, he has

become philosophy.

Q. A mother lost her child …. gone to spiritualist. How to take her thought away from going in

that direction?

A. Naturally, not at once. First to meet with her idea, first to sympathize; it is a mother. You

cannot separate a mother even from the thought of her child. But then gradually after some

days, some months, after perhaps some years, bring her to your idea very (gently) gradually without

her knowing.

In my work I get scientific people – I mean who are just soaking in science – and intellectual people,

most of the Theosophists and mediumistic people, and I have a very good time with them. What

happens is that the scientific man is not at all interested with the moral or ethical ideas, or spiritual or

higher realization. He is not at all interested. What he is interested in is the phenomenon of life. And

do you think I refuse to take him? I take him in the Sufi Movement just the same. I give him an

initiation, and try to speak with him, and if it comes to phenomena … and interest him in that way. And

then there come Theosophists who call the five things they have read in the books, they call it

intellectuality. All the different beliefs that they have taken in out of their reading, they call

intellectuality. Imagine! If the intellect is made lame by what they have learnt from books, they call it

intellectuality. A lame intellect.! For instance, the third, fourth, fifth, sixth root-race. They talk about

Atlantis, stories of Atlantis, about the Himalayas, a certain Mahatma in Tibet, and from that center

comes a command to another center, and such things which make out of the crazy, mad. And that

person comes to me and says, “Murshid, do you believe this, and this and this?” And he thinks, that

person that he is intellectual. And if I say no, then they say, “What is Sufism!” Just like any other

church: have devotion! And what you are asked: faith! Two things; Well, there is very much talk about

personality, personality, personality. What is it? Nothing! They have talked about Mahatmas! Nothing

but different incarnations, certain fixed hierarchies, cosmic hierarchies, much about different planets,

preaching new morals, new races springing up, and all such things. What is there to learn, and what is

there to study? And if I do not give them that, then they say, “That is lacking in the Sufi Movement.

What is lacking in the Sufi Movement is intellectuality.”

“Yes,” I say, “that is true.” But do you think that I let them go out of the Sufi Movement? No, I hold

them still. I say, “There will come a time when you will be intellectual. It does not matter. We shall



forget about the sixth root race. We shall think about the human race just now, what we can do for this

race.” In this way bring them, bring them by patience. Ten, twelve years taken with one individual;

even after twelve years it is very difficult for him to get out of his intellectual puzzle.

You will be very amused that I saw a Theosophist in the United States. He was supposed to be a

great student. He had read a great many books and was talking many things of this kind. And he said,

“Murshid, now you know that I have studied and I have been a member of the Theosophical Society

for twenty-five years. I am not coming as a new person to you. I have some knowledge of it. But now

what I have come for, to ask you just one question. I am not as anybody else coming with many

questions; one important question I want to ask you.” He first made himself so independent that he did

not need to come to me. He just had one question. I said, “I am very glad.” So he said, “I want to know

what is the difference between Theosophy and Sufism?” I said, “They are the doors of the same

puzzle, the one is exit and the other is entrance. Enter by one and come out by the other.”

And then there comes a third person, and that is a mediumistic person. The difficulty with mediumistic

person is more than with anyone else, because a mediumistic person comes and says, one day he

says, “My spirit guide has said that you are my teacher and you are everything, and my spirit guide

has said that your path, the Sufi path, is my path.” And then I say yes. “And you are everything!” Then

after a month he comes and says, “My spirit guide has said that this is not the path for me.” You

cannot reason with him, because the same guide which has come for him, the same guide does not

come. You cannot reason any more. He can even say so far as, “My spirit guide says that this is the

wrong path.” You cannot say anything. One day the spirit came and said, “You are everything.” And

the next day the spirit said, “You are nothing.”

If there is a spirit guide, in a hundred cases ninety-nine are imaginative spirit guides. Maybe that in

one case there is a spirit guide. But if there is, ninety-nine among mediumistic people imagine that

there is a spirit guide. Besides, if anyone had to learn from spirit guides, why should Jesus Christ have

come to the earth. God …. Then the Prophet who is meant to walk on the earth, would not have been

sent; to walk on earth with the same difficulties and troubles to go through as man. That is the source

that God has given to man to follow, instead of following someone in the other world. What is the use?

In that case they become dead; their faces become dead, their atmosphere becomes dead, their

words become dead. One who sees the most advanced mediumistic people, their atmosphere is

dead. Because they have to come to a point, a negative point, in order to connect themselves with the

other side. And therefore this dead point keeps them dead, simply dead. I wish that they would die

before death in order to reach spiritual perfection, instead of dying before death to get connection with

a spirit. And what do they get from the dead? The same thing that it has; it gives death. No, that is a

wrong tactic, that gives a great trouble to the teacher.



6.8.26 Secrecy on the path of truth.

Friday

Today I would like to say a few words on the subject of secrecy on the path of Truth. On the first place

when you have come to the Collective Interview it is not a class, it may not be called a class, and that

one must not speak about it with others. (see CI 30.6.26) What happens is that the others feel

discouraged because they are not called at the Collective Interview. Because they consider this is a

class; and this is an interview when I speak to some few workers on certain points which I wish them

to know. As soon as you show your appreciation before other, “How wonderful the class was last

evening in Murshid’s room; what a beautiful point was discussed and the point of discussion was so

and so, such and such,” the person thinks, “I was deprived from that paradise; I am an exile.” That will

certainly take away your pleasure by the displeasure of another. If I had time enough for Collective

Interviews, perhaps I would invite the whole of Paris; because there is nothing more pleasing to me

than giving the Message to souls who are seeking after it. But, alas, there is only so much time at my

disposal. I can not do any more than that. In this little room you can only accommodate so many

people. You can not accommodate any more. Besides, this is not a class of teaching, this is not a

public lecture; this is only a circle of some workers whom I call here to give some hints which will be of

use for their work.

But it is not only in the Collective Interview, but in every day life, the further you go on the spiritual path

the more secrecy you must have. Without having a secrecy, you can stand nowhere. And it is easy to

laugh, for many people, at the sight of secrecy, they say: ‘What necessity is there, if it is something

true, right or good, for it to be secret?” Because what one is accustomed to know as secret is

something which is not worth mentioning, and which is untrue, and which is false, and which is

worthless, and undesirable. But you must know that your pebbles you will keep before your house in

the street, and your jewels you will keep in the safe. If that is true, then all that is valuable you will

keep secret. All that you value you will not bring it before others. Very often people are surprised at the

idea of secrecy, “why in the Sufi Movement you must have so much secrecy?” I say, “without the

control of your lips you will not be able to develop inspiration.” As a poet has said, “When the shell

closes its lips, then the pearl develops in it.” A person who pours out all that is in his heart to everyone

he meets, he is not a person to rely upon. You can not trust that person with your secret, nor that

person can trust himself with his secret. The more you will be experienced in life, the more you will find

the worth of secrecy.

And are the out-spoken people always wise? They may be truthful, and many I have heard boasting

over their way, that, “I tell the truth. I do not mind how anybody takes it.” Is it the truth, or is it a whip?

Truth must be healing. Truth must be soothing. Truth must be illuminating. Truth must be uplifting. And

if Truth is such a bad thing that as soon as you have said something to someone he gets displeased,

he goes to another who gets displeased. And by your one truth perhaps twenty persons get

displeased. What value has that truth? How much true it may be, it is not Truth. What is it? It is



foolishness. Besides, the more you are able to keep your secret in your heart the greater you become.

You have more weight; your personality becomes more reliable, more dependable. As it is said in

Vadan, that, “It is best to say something without saying.”

Q. Murshid, how can one develop a quality of knowing when one can speak and when one

cannot speak?

A. The first lesson is to seal the lips. And when this is well practiced a sense of discrimination

will develop, making one see when to speak and when not to speak. In the first place,

whatever you say, for it there is a time and there is a place. And when you say at the time

when it should be said, and when you say in the place it should be said, it is right. And then

there is a person, when you say to that person then it is right. And when you say the same

truth to another person, then it is wrong. So that you can understand: first beginning by

keeping secret, absolutely secret. Then you develop it.

Q. Murshid, would you say: when one has a weakness and sometimes one says a thing which

one very well knows it is better not to say? How can one stop it?

A. By the habit of silence. Every day make a habit of silence.

Q. Should one never say a truth when it is disagreeable? Never or sometimes?

A. Well, I say that every manner that is hurting must be avoided. Every action that is hurtful,

every word that hurts must be avoided, even if it hurts a little child.

Q. Can it never do good?

A. Sometimes the knife also does good in the hand of a surgeon. But at the same time I would

rather that surgery was avoided, and medicine could cure. If you can open a package by

cutting the knot, it can be done, and it is soon done. But if you wish to save the string and the

package both, the best thing is to open the knot. That takes time.

Q. In the case of old friends and relations, if they have a harpoon in their hand and pull out the

string. They know one’s weakness and feelings. Then they knock at that. It is most difficult to

be silent with those.

A. Yes, but if one makes a habit of silence, then against it you also are silent.

Q. Then they say you are cold and disagreeable.

A. No, you can be warm just as well, and yet not be disagreeable, and yet answer.

Once in America a person asked me such questions that anybody would have felt insulted. And I

listened to it all, and I did not answer. And then the same person came to my public lecture. There he

received his answer. You might have thought, “Why did I not answer him there in the room?” But that

would have been a great loss of time and loss of words for that one man, to give all that wisdom there.



It is not economical. I said to him, “Yes, you have reason.” And I meant it. He had his reason peculiar

to himself. I gave my reason in the public, that so many hundreds of persons know, including that

person also. That is the thing. That is economical idea. But you might say that, “We have no occasion

to speak to many people;” well, so much the better; so much energy reserved.

Q. Murshid, sometimes mureeds complain that nobody speaks to them. They walk round with a

miserable face.

A. This is a great pity. This must not be. Because this is a lack of friendliness. And I am the last

person to encourage it. And for that reason Mrs. Bhakti Eggink has commenced now a social

meeting, that they may all meet one another; that they may speak to one another. I wish that

among mureeds there was a spirit of outgoing, of making acquaintance, of making them feel

at home. That people may not think that, “We are coming from a distance; there is no one to

speak with us.” That must not be the spirit. The spirit of the Sufi must be sociable. And I will

try in every way, and I shall do everything to promote that idea. That is the most essential

thing for our movement.

Remark Two ladies have come yesterday, they feel so at home.

A. Yes, but I am not satisfied about all the good that is talked about us. I am concerned about

the bad that is talked about us. We must be conscious of it. We must not be unconscious of

what people say. If we are unconscious of people’s need, it is not right. We are responsible about it. If

people say good about us, it only lulls us to sleep. If people say what ought to be there, that makes us

awake. That is the point we must consider all the time. But by secrecy what I mean is not to let them

feel bad in any way. Suppose one talks before them that there is a Collective Interview, that only

makes them feel bad; or any such points, that will make them feel bad. It is better to avoid it. Only

speak with them things that will please them, that will give them more consciousness of our

Movement, of our work. We must think that we are hosts whose work it is to welcome guests, to

develop them into hosts, that next year they will be hosts to welcome others. We are one family and

we must feel it, be conscious of it.

Q. Is it better to have all come, or in groups?

A. I think that anything we do here, we must do it by giving people freedom. Not compel them to

do it. As soon as you compel you take away the pleasure. Just say, “It is better that you

come.” If you say, “You must come,” then it is all spoiled. Make them see the need, that how

essential it is.

Q. Lucifer has come to a point of self-redemption. Ariman is the opposing force. Would you

please explain more about the temple? …..

A. But it is not said that it was not wrong. It is said that psychologically it is against the object

with which the temple was made. The temple was made to exist. And these two forces



brought before one another will consume, will assimilate. The power of these opposing forces is to

push it backwards, to push it towards nothingness. But nothingness is everything. But according to our

point of view of the earth, anything that is physical will be non-existent before two opposing forces.

Now I want to tell you another thing. That we always confuse between negative and positive: opposing

forces. For an instance, negative and positive are not opposing. For instance they call “opposite” sex,

male and female. But it is not true. That word is not appropriate for it. “Opposite” means: what is

enemy to the other non-existent. And these two forces are working towards one another, to make one

another non-existent. That means conflict, that means war. The picture of these two forces must

sooner or later bring about a conflict, an opposition, which will result in annihilation.

Q. What about the picture of Jesus Christ in the middle?

A. That has nothing to do. These two opposing forces around Jesus Christ, even that is not a

harmonious thing. Jesus Christ was the harmonizing spirit that was sent to the world. Two

opposing forces to put around Jesus Christ, that in itself makes, from a psychological point of

view, not a harmonious whole. It does not blend. Jesus Christ came to bring harmony, not

opposition. This picture represents opposition.

Q. For the Sufi idea evil is the lack of something? It is not a positive thing, is it?

A. No. You see, when we say “evil” in reality evil does not exist. But when there are two things of

which one thing eats the other thing, for an instance, the water and the fire. The fire

consumes the water, and water extinguishes fire. Well, there is opposition. And if you will

have in your picture fire and water, wherever you will keep that picture, it must bring

destruction. These are two opposing forces. But if you had water and earth, that is not

opposing. Water helps the earth to become fertile, and water embraces earth wherever it

comes. There is an inclination of one element to another.

Q. I once met Dr. Steiner, and he showed us this picture. When he was making this very picture,

it broke, he said.

A. Ariman threw a stone at it. There you have the proof of what I have said.

Q. Why do we want more than we need?

A. We have need in us, we have want in us. We need and we want, because it is in us. There is

not only need, but there is a want. And need comes from outside, but want comes from within.

And therefore it is not that all that, we need; but there is much that we want. But behind it all, it is

better if we wanted something that is worth while. And perhaps it is not good not to want. Is it not, all

that is made, was made for the soul of man, all the jewels and gems, he needs it. Not only he needs it,

but he wants it. If he needs it, he must have it. If he wants it, he must strive for it. But in needing, in

wanting, what each person is striving after? He is striving after perfection. He does not know it. If he

knew this short road to perfection, he would not want things worthless, only things worth while. Until



he will know, he will want worthless things. But where does this inclination come from? It comes from

the deepest depth of his heart, the soul seeking for perfection.



9.8.26 Attitude of taking people in the Sufi Order

Monday

What attitude we may have, and what attitude we may not have towards taking Communists and

Bolshevists in the Sufi Order.

Since Bolshevism and Communism are spreading (they will spread because it is the season), we will

always be confronted with that problem, (and - hv) it is better that we solve it now.

Each Bolshevist is a missionary of his ideal; and therefore in some way he will try to introduce his

point of view to our people. Communists apart, a lady has come to the Summerschool, and she came

with a good will, and she expressed her good will to me by saying that, “I wish to bring about a closer

connection between Anthroposophy and Sufism. And I would like to be a bridge.” If we allowed

different bridges like this to be made between every other society and ourselves, we shall have to

make many thousand bridges. And whether the bridge is made for the wave of that society to come

and sweep us, or the bridge is made for our society to go and inspire the, that is a question.

Now there is another experience of that kind. Last year, or the year before last, we had one person

come to us, and by some of our friends, who were also his friends, with their broad point of view they

arranged his lecture. And what did we find? One of the most devoted workers and mureeds and

representatives (the person in question was Murshida Martin, and the one who gave the lecture was

Mr. Reesink) came raving about it that, “Murshid, how wonderful! That is what it is, if there is anything!

He has struck the right note!” And what was it? It was a bomb thrown at the Sufi Movement that does

not mean that that representative was not sincere to us; that does not mean that there was any

devotion lacking on the part of that representative……….. and yet there was no comprehension,

wisdom was missing. That is one thing that we must think about, and if we show in any way that we

take precautions the others think we are narrow. At once we come in a position where we are

criticized. We cannot go and plead before everybody, they will have many to agree with them, we will

have none. Now that is the question.

As I have said, (if -hv) it is a communist, he is a missionary of his point of view. When there is a

question towards the government under which we live and work. The French Government is most

sensitive toward this question. So will the English Government be, so is the American Government just

now, and everywhere there is a difficulty of that sort. Even the Swiss Government, which is supposed

to be the most ancient democratic government, is most sensitive on this point just now. Whenever

there is a question of Russian Bolshevists, their first desire is to send them out. I should not make that

someone should come and make propaganda for any other society. Some, if they join the Society,

they join with that motive. We have no set government policy – the idea is this, that in every place that

our Representatives have to work, they are confronted with this problem. They must know in their own

mind what they must do about it. It is a good method to try and have patience. But what about the



damage in two years? Here the man (Mr. Reesink in 1924) was for a few days. It was very good that

we had that experience at hand, but it is very difficult to make a rule; very difficult.

Now it is among (………?), and it has never been spoken out, it is very secret, that last year I was

trying to arrange to go to Russia. Because it is for some years I was trying to arrange to go to Russia.

Because it is for some years I have an intense desire to go to Russia with the Message, a desire

which I have been keeping back, and then it urges me to go to Russia, in spite of all difficulties that

there are. And there was a society here of Russians who invited me to go and speak for them. And

they are perhaps a society that is working against the Russian government. They don’t say it, but

maybe. I did not know much about that society. And when their invitation came, I appreciated it very

much, but I did not accept it, but that does not mean that I have sided with the Bolshevists. It only

means that I do not wish to appear before Bolshevists a friend of a Society which is against them. That

is the principle. If we begin to refuse Bolshevists or Communists openly, there stands before us a very

great danger. And that danger is, ‘we being opposed by them’. And it is an increasing and spreading

movement, and it would give us a great deal of trouble. It does not mean that they could hinder the

message; on the contrary, whoever will stand in the way of the Message will be very much tried. But at

the same time it can increase our trouble; there is no doubt about it. And therefore it is a problem to

consider very wisely, and to find such a solution that may not come upon us as a Movement which is

opposed to Communism or Bolshevism. That is one delicate point.

Besides, we are opposed to no movement, only our ideals are different from theirs; that is all. We are

not opposed, our ideals are different. The only solution that seems to me the best is to give them a

probation, as Sirdar has suggested, then we have not openly refused them. Give them a probation,

and they will not have patience, they cannot have patience. If we give them a probation with a promise

that when they are ready for us then we shall take him, he will not have patience with us. He will go by

himself, and we shall not commit ourselves as being against Communism or Bolshevism. It would be

most dangerous for us to commit ourselves in this way. Besides it would be against our principles,

because we are not against anybody, only we have our own ideals. We do not wish to take other

people’s ideals, we have our own ideals to spread in the world.

Fikars are of five rhythms

Now there is another subject: that is the Fikar given to different people.

Fikars are of five rhythms: the rhythm of 4, of 3, of 5, of 7 and of 9.

4: In order to bring about a balance

3: In order to bring about action

5: In order to develop a force, a power.

7: In order to harmonize the spirit.

9: In order to keep steadiness.

There is a great mystery that belongs to the science of rhythm.



Q. You told about the person who became agitated and said, “I never do it. ”Is it a case of

obsession?

A. It is possible, but sometimes it is a nervous case. A person is nervously ill when the person

has irritation. There is an illness, and that is the irritation of nerves. It does not show

anywhere a kind of pain, a particular pain, or it cannot be located anywhere. It is an illness which is all

over. It is a kind of irritation of nerves. And that results in unbalance of mind, an unbalanced condition.

Q. Would you give that person first the rhythm of four, to give balance, would it make it right?

A. Yes, four is always advisable.

Q. Never two long breaths?

A. Yes, the two belongs to four, or eight belongs to four, and six belongs to three.

Q. If a person is lazy, maybe he is lazy for different reasons, maybe illness of body or mind.

A. Yes, but this will give a tonic, always. This will always be good.

Q. Will it always cure the source of the illness?

A. Yes, it is a very and extremely powerful exercise. Or when you will give the rhythm of five, it

is extremely powerful. But this person will develop very slowly in the spiritual path, because it

always draws towards matter. The rhythm of five is so powerful. It has its relation with matter,

therefore the spiritual progress becomes slow; but it gives a great power. For instance if a person said

that, “I am sent at the front to go to war, I am called for the war and I want some practice which will

make me strong and courageous and powerful enough to fulfil my duties,” in that case I would give

this exercise, the rhythm of five. The rhythm makes a very great difference in a person. It changes

man’s whole character.

Q. Do the multiples make it stronger or weaker? Is two stronger or weaker? Is two stronger or

weaker than four?

A. Two is stronger and six weaker.

Q. Murshid, do you have a special thought with that practice?

A. Of course, Fikar means a special thought given with the breath.

Q. One can give the rhythm of five with a word which turns the power into spiritual power

A. Yes, that would give a balance. It harmonizes.

Q. May the members of this class use this rhythm when there is a need for it? Just for the time?

If there is a danger before them? May they give it on the prescription also?

A. Yes, on the paper, I will commence now to write on the instruction paper in brackets 3, 5, 7, 9

or 4. Then you know what is meant by it. But if there is no rhythm written, then it is 4.



Q. Murshid, how do they keep the rhythm when it is not a walking Fikar?

A. They must count in mind.

Q. As a help, may one count with the feet?

A. Why not count with the mind?

Q. Is it necessary to count when one has entered into the rhythm?

A. I do not think so. You do not need to count. One day, or two days, or three days, then you

don’t need to count. First two or three days it is as a physical exercise before one keeps with

the thought. The pulsation is going on and therefore one can very easily count. The pulsation helps

one to count.

Q. For instance, if the rhythm if 4, you need not count?

A. No

Q. Could one practice, before giving the thought, only the rhythm?

A. Yes.

Q. Is one to count the pulsation?

A. I said that the pulsation enables one to count. Because it is a natural counting going on all

the time. Therefore two beats of the heart, or four beats of the heart, make you count one.

Unconsciously the pulsation helps you to count.

Q. Murshid, I have been asked twice in the last week which way the stream of running water

should be seen; from left to right or from right to left?

A. That is very good. It is better to see the stream running from left to right.



11.8.26 Magnetism

Wednesday

Today I would like to speak a few words on the subject of magnetism: that every person, either

consciously or unconsciously, has a magnetism. When a person is conscious of it, its work is more

powerful. When a person is not conscious, the work of magnetism is slower. Because it is the

consciousness which allows the magnetism to work.

Magnetism can be considered as of five different kinds. Physical magnetism, which people call animal

magnetism, depends upon the good condition of the circulation of the blood, of the better condition of

the skin, of the working of the pulsation, of the muscular development; also it depends upon

cleanliness. This magnetism depends upon form and feature and on movements.

And then there is intellectual, mental magnetism, which is connected with intellectuality. If one has a

brilliant mind, wit, if one’s perception and conception is keen, then intellectual magnetism works, and it

manifests into wonderful manifestations. Intellectual person will always attract because the magnet in

him is his mind.

And then there comes the magnetism of the heart, which depends upon the heart quality. If we have a

sympathetic nature, if we have deep feeling, naturally there is a kind of force which draws people near

to us.

Then there is the magnetism of the soul, and that magnetism is of innocence. There are people with

innocent qualities, and that attracts very much, and that attraction lasts longer. They may not be clever

and may not have all the other means of drawing, but at the same time they can draw.

And the next is spiritual magnetism, when the soul has reached a spiritual realization. That magnetism

is such that if that person will sit in the midst of the wilderness, that wilderness will become a town.

The Prophet Mohammed began in the desert, which had no attraction whatever. There was no

possibility of industry or business; there was no culture, no university, there was nothing that could

attract art. And if there was anything it was the Prophet who attracted the whole world there. People

came from Arabia, Persia, from Egypt and China. That is spiritual magnetism. It has a great drawing

power and it lasts longer.

What takes away magnetism? The first magnetism is taken away by illness, disorder of the physical

body. And the second magnetism is taken away by worry and anxiety. It eats the magnetism; however

intellectual a person may be, once he begins to worry the mind becomes eaten up, all the brilliant

nature of mind is ruined. And the magnetism of the heart goes away when once a heart breaking

comes, a disappointment comes, indifference comes. The magnetism of the soul is taken away as



soon as a person has become a little more clever than he is. As soon as he becomes worldly wise,

then that magnetism is going away. You will very often see those whom you know, whose innocence

attracts you, no sooner they become a little more worldly they have lost it. And then there is the

magnetism which is called spiritual magnetism. That increases and decreases according to the

expansion and contraction of consciousness. But that is a magnetism that you can depend upon and

that is the magnetism that lasts.

Each magnetism, which I have said before, is less lasting compared to the next, and so increasingly

they develop. And the last magnetism which I have mentioned is the everlasting magnetism.

Q. Murshid, I should like to know, if two people, both of a very high character, dislike each other

very much and are hardly polite, is that because the magnetism does not agree?

A. Yes, it is quite possible. Sometimes people hit one another without actually hitting. As soon as

they come before one another they hit. That is a kind of discord of the spirit. It has little to do

with magnetism. Really it is a discord of the spirit. They don’t meet, they don’t co-ordinate. And when

such a thing unfortunately happens in friendship, it kills friendship. And if it is in marriage, then it is the

worst thing in marriage. If it is in partnership, in business, then it is the destruction of business.

Q. Murshid, magnetism is made up by vibrations, or by finest substance, or by both?

A. Chiefly by vibrations. But as dense vibrations the more substance they have. The less dense

vibrations the less substance they have. In reality it has substance, but it is not the same as

what we consider earth, water, fire, air.

Q. If a person radiates magnetism, does this vibration produce new matter, the atoms that we

call substance?

A. Certainly, new matter every time. I would not call it matter, but I would call it new fluid.

Q. The moment it is created it is radiated?

A. Yes

Q. And is it again absorbed?

A. Ah yes.

Q. Someone went to a Christian meeting … go to a certain part of Paris. …. Became ill, perhaps

for six months…. If so very fine…. What sort of magnetism is it?

A. It is not the magnetism; it is the denseness of the crowd. What the crowd vibrates is so dense

that a fine person who is not accustomed to live in that air will be suffocated. In other words, if

you lived on a very very high tower for twenty years, when you walk on the earth you will feel ill,

because the air of the earth will be very dense. And so the vibrations of the crowd will be so gross that

the person who has made himself so very fine will feel very bad.

Q. Do people take magnetism of the fine person?



A. No, it is not always the case. And if they take any magnetism of the fine person, the fine

person will have a continual fountain of magnetism. It is not lost. The higher the magnetism,

the less lost; the lower the magnetism, the most lost. For instance, the physical magnetism

can be taken, the intellectual magnetism can be taken less, and so on less and less.

Q. Murshid, how is the magnetism taken, the intellectual?

A. “Taken” is this, that your mind begins to feel tired.

Q How can anyone take it?

A. In this way: If a person argues with you and asks you questions and enjoys what you say, and

so it goes on. Then you become tired, and that person becomes pleased. It can go so on that

your capacity of thought is lost, and that person is quite capable then to discuss. But, as I said, one

can lose physical magnetism much more, but intellectual magnetism less, and magnetism of the heart

quality still less, and so on. It does not mean that another does not take it. He takes it, but you lose

less, because there is an ever-going fountain creating magnetism all the time. The better the

magnetism, the more ample it is created.

Q. Is it created by the breath?

A. Yes, breath is one of the principal centers, I mean principal currents.

Q. Murshid, the spiritual magnetism, does it effect the spirit or the body more?

A. All. It affects the body, mind, soul and consciousness.

Q. It heals all together?

A. Yes.

Q. If somebody possesses spiritual magnetism, that is, the highest magnetism, does he possess

the other kinds also?

A. He may or he may not. But it provides for it; the last provides for the others. But the others do

not provide for the last.

Q. Is there an organ in the physical body which produces physical magnetism?

A. The whole body.

Q. Why do people like complexity?

A. It is human nature.

Q. What is the psychology of the confession in the Catholic Church?

A. It is the old way of psycho-analyzing. But only the difference is that today a psycho-analyst

hardly has a spiritual attitude. But then there was a spiritual attitude there, and at the same

time it was psycho-analysis.

Q. Why does spiritual beauty not manifest outwardly in form always?



A. Yes, but it is reflected in something. But even in the physical formation what happens is that,

that the person has borrowed a vehicle inherited from a certain family. If the spirit is evolved

very much, still the vehicle is the same. Therefore the vehicle changes, but not so much. But it shows

outwardly also; perhaps a person cannot see it, but it does.

It will interest you to know that I knew a person who, after a hundred years of age, got new teeth and

black hair. From gray to black it turned, and the eyesight became as in youth. I have seen this person

myself. It was spiritual awakening. If that is true, as I have seen it myself, with this person very closely,

then you can believe that the condition of the soul can manifest in the physical. Only there are many

questions connected with it. There is a question of heritage, of condition, of the point or the direction

which the person has taken. But at the same time you can see the beauty; how much inner beauty it

may be, it shows outside. Only it wants a certain way of looking at it. One has to learn the way of

looking at it. Then one can see outside also. It really manifests outside.

Q. Could it be a precious body, not perfectly aligned?

A. Oh yes, possible.

Q. I have a friend, a Sufi, who I think does not quite understand the Sufi idea, and speaks and

makes propaganda for it in his way.

A. This will always come up. If there is one thoughtful person among a hundred, there will be

ninety-nine quite the contrary. And this will always be the difficulty. But if we go and correct

that person, that means that we do greater harm to the Movement., because correcting that person

may have such an effect that the more you correct the worse he becomes. And most are like that;

most have this effect, so contrary. By correcting, the little harm that he made was not so much as the

harm done by correcting him. And if I were to tell you, my policy in such cases is to just drink it. You

see, any impulse that comes, drink it, take it and let it be left to time to correct him, and your patience

will correct him one day.

But now you might say: is there any place for advice or suggestion? Yes. Or if there was willingness

on the part of that man, if the person came himself and said, “Have you some word in it, have you any

suggestion?” You will wait for that time. Or, if he is your friend you can, not directly, but on the side,

say it in such a way that you don’t hit him directly and at the same time give him your suggestion, that

perhaps he could have done it better. Or maybe that you will take it upon yourself, saying that problem

has come to me, and in such a case what I think about it, how I would answer, how it would be right. In

that way you would do better than by telling him how to do it. Always remember this, that grown up

people apart, even a child does not want to learn. To teach a person is worse than to hit a person. And

the human ego cannot tolerate correcting. A person may not be right, it is his mistake; but as soon as

you begin to correct that person, he will not do it.

I will tell you the story of Ali who corrected a person. There is a certain way in the Mosque which is

shown by the Prophet, that in such a way, in a certain way the hands must be washed for the service,



and the face must be washed in a certain way. There are rules of ablution among Muslims. And this

young man was always doing the ablutions without considering those little ways that are necessary,

and Ali was by his side. So Ali, instead of telling “You must not do it this way,” kept it in his mind, and

one day it happened that this person was close to him. Ali said, “Will you help me to take ablution?”

and he was very glad, he thought, “It is a great privilege to help Ali.” Therefore he took the bowl and

stood before Ali, and Ali made ablutions before him. And this man knows how to do it.

This story tells it, this will always hold with every person. One must try ones best not to correct

anyone, no matter what position you are, position of guardian, father, mother, teacher, even then the

further you go in the path of wisdom the less you feel inclined to correct anyone or teach anyone. The

only good way is to teach him indirectly, that has a great effect.



13.8.26 Relation between mureed and Murshid

Friday

I am going to speak a few words on the relation between the mureed and the Murshid.

That this link which exists between Murshid and mureed is more delicate than a thin thread, and at the

same time much stronger than the steel wire. And the only way to preserve it is to keep that delicate

feeling about one’s teacher living in oneself. And now you might ask: what delicate feeling? Delicate

feeling is this, that you may not allow the teacher to tell you something in words. You must understand

his pleasure before he says it. Because once he has said, then what is remaining now? Besides,

delicate feeling is this, that you may not wobble in your faith, that you may not show a lack of

confidence against your teacher, that you may feel that in word, in deed, in thought you may not hurt

your teacher. A mureed who is regardless of this is a drunken one, he is not sober. And drunken of

what? Drunken of self. If one does not learn delicacy with one’s teacher, with whom will one learn it?

One can use it after one has learnt with all persons. But the first thing is to practice with the teacher,

with the spiritual teacher who can appreciate delicate feeling. Besides that, you must know that before

you point out the teacher sees it, anything. Before you speak to him he knows it, before you think

about something he feels it. and if you know this with delicacy you will not make things rigid.

Another delicacy is exactly the same as it was in the aristocracies. And that delicacy was that when

there is a time proper to it, then you talk and chum and laugh and joke. And then there is another time,

then you are in that attitude which is due to that time. That must be the idea, because the teacher and

the pupil, exactly that. You may never think for one moment to picture your initiator just like a

professor or a doctor or a teacher in the College. That is a different thing; in the college when one

passes from one teacher to another, then one forgets. But this is something too sacred to take it like

this.

Once a great teacher whom I went to see saw that it would be nice if I would become his pupil, and

said to me in poetry delicately put, that the spring has almost passed before you have seen the

blossom. And that was a hint, and in answer to that hint I said, “When from one it becomes two it loses

the charm.” So I did not take the picture of my Beloved. This is a saying, that is a poetry, and by which

I meant that I was always, I was already a mureed of a Murshid, and once I had taken that allegiance,

even if a person came from Heaven directly, descended from the sky, I would not change. If that is not

the attitude of a mureed he does not know what mureed means. If one does not feel the pain of death

by having caused the slightest little displeasure to the teacher, his heart is not yet awake. And at the

slightest little displeasure to the teacher, his heart is not yet awake. And at the same time one must

know that it is very easy to cause a displeasure to your teacher. One might not know it for ten years, if

one did not pay attention to it. Yet the pain is caused just the same. And it is delicacy of nature, of

mind, of feeling that makes you perceptive. And that comes by a clear and solid cord of sympathy.

Q. Murshid, do you mean by this that by any action we do in our lives against the ideal, that is



also something to hurt the feeling of the Murshid?

A. That you must know yourself. Murshid must not tell you. It might be anything, the slightest

thing. You may have a fan and hurt an insect. That insect may be Murshid’s.

Q. I find it difficult, I speak to someone who does not know you, they have some other ideal, I do

not want to offend their ideal. I mean to say, that by hurting a fly you may hurt Murshid, that is

the thing many cannot understand.

A. In that case to cut short the speech, and patiently wait for that time to come that they will

understand.

Q. Murshid, it is so with every mureed? Are there some who are called mureed more in name?

A. Yes, I will tell you. Each mureed, every mureed who has once followed the path of the Sufis,

and who has once thought of the Pir-o-Murshid, has come in my fold. Whether that mureed is

before me or whether that mureed is at a distance, I am responsible for the well-being, well-fare, and

the progress of that mureed. But this current which I have told you, this link, that delicate link which

exists between Murshid and mureed, with each it is different. It is according to their understanding, it is

according to their devotion, it is according to their feeling, and each mureed differs from the other. And

in accordance to the strength of that and to the living power of that link that mureed is benefited.

Q. I know of mureeds who do not understand it at all; they do not know what it means.

A. Yes, but innocence is always a bliss.

Q. Murshid, once you told a mureed that if it happened that they did something which offended

very much, it was like a vase being broken, which could be mended, but it would be a sin.

A. Of course, it is true. Yes, but you must always know that on the side of Murshid there will

always be an attempt made to make the vase the same again. There will not be left one stone

unturned, and no effort spared to make the vase solid again.

Q. If a mureed that is accepted by you makes a link with someone else who is not a mureed, will

that person also have a link with you?

A. Murshid has nothing to do with it, because the link with Murshid is the link of Murshid and

mureed. And also this link is broken or this link is hurt when the mureed has shown a lack of

confidence by going to another teacher, or another person for guidance. But if there is some mureed

who has an attachment for the marriage or something, that is all right, that is another relationship

altogether. But when the mureed has an attitude of looking at another person also with the same

attitude of being guided or being taught by some excuse or the other, when he thinks: “perhaps

Murshid has not time, perhaps somebody else can guide also, with every person we can learn,” then

that delicacy is hurt in that way.

Q. Those members that have gone out of the Sufi Movement, for instance I know of someone



who has been a mureed and has left. Does the thread still remain, or is it broken?

A. Well, it is almost broken, because the mureed has left, the mureed has broken it. Murshid’s

hand of blessing still remains stretched, but the Mureed has turned his back. It does not mean

that Murshid’s hand is withdrawn. Murshid’s hand is still stretched out. But the mureed has turned his

back, by the very fact of turning his back he has harmed himself. He can come back. Even if he came

back, the very fact of turning once is a blow just the same. Things do not always mend, it is very

difficult. If there is a cloth you can mend it a little. But when it is a glass it is different. If there is a cloth

you can mend it a little. But when it is a glass it is different. The quality of the heart is a glass. And you

must know that Murshid’s heart is the most delicate, most fragile that can be. That perhaps mureed

will not know for twenty years that he has knocked against the heart of Murshid, and Murshid will not

tell for twenty years, but it has happened just the same. Extremely fragile. If it would not be so, it would

not be Murshid. The more transparent the heart, the more fragile it is. And you do not know when you

know, and how you do it. In the East there is a saying: When once turned away from the door of

Murshid, turned away from everything in the world. That is true. Where the sympathy is given, where

knowledge is given, where the Message is given, when the person has turned his heart from there,

then where will you go? There is no other place.

Q. It is the most terrible thing.

A. They are to be pitied.

Q. How about mureeds who have never seen Murshid?

A. They have a greater credit for their devotion, they have a greater credit. They say that

Mohammed had a friend who had never seen him. And he lived at a great distance from the

Prophet in another town. His name was Oes, and he was always eager to get the news of the Prophet.

And when the news reached him, he would be most happy to hear something about him. And one day

they said that the Prophet was in the war, in the battle, and one tooth of the Prophet came out in the

struggle. When this mean heard, he said, “One tooth of the Prophet came out! How could I have teeth

in my mouth! I feel uncomfortable.” All the teeth he took out. “For one tooth of the Prophet I will take

out all my teeth.” He would not go to see the Prophet for one command of the Prophet: if your parents

are old, helpless, then even sacrifice your privilege of coming to me, and serve me. And this command

he was obeying. And in the end, before he could reach the Prophet he died. And when the Prophet

was dying, among his millions of followers he thought of Oes. And said, “My mantle must be given to

Oes.” One friend who never saw the Prophet, and always was the greatest friend.

Q. Could he not come for one day?

A. In those times there were no trains.

Q. Could it be that the mureed who left the Murshid, that it was by lack of understanding? I

cannot understand that a mureed would consciously hurt Murshid?

A. That is true. But all things we do in our lives we hardly consciously do them. All these things



that are wrong, or a weakness, mostly we do them unconsciously. Nevertheless, the

consequence is the same. But it must be understood that no one in the world you will find so ready to

tolerate, so ready to forget, so ready to forgive, than Murshid. If Murshid would not forgive, who would

forgive? But remember, even the forgetting of it, even the forgiving of it might leave the sore there just

the same. Anything that is delicate, there can come a crack. It is very easy to get a crack.

Q. Murshid, the further we go, the more responsible we become.

A. Of course, but here it is not a question of deed, here is a question of conscientiousness, it is a

question of delicacy, not of deeds. Because in the spiritual path, and before the Murshid

every deed is forgotten. It is not a kind of religious path, where a clergy says, this is wrong, wicked, by

this law or by that law. With Murshid there is no such thing as that. With Murshid it is to keep the

delicate feeling alive. It is more delicate, more poetical, more lyrical, not rigid as a rule.

Q. If a person before coming to you had such a feeling towards Jesus Christ, then came to you,

is it of no hurtfulness to Christ that we have taken you as a living teacher?

A. No, it is not, because shall I tell you, one day my Murshid sent a man, a servant, with a

message to me, and I was going in my usual way, and this servant when he looked at me he

thought that this man must be so proud that he will not even look at me. The way that I was dressed,

the independent way I was walking, that all showed to him that man will not even listen to me. He was

a poor servant, a porter. And so perhaps he saw the manifestation of this. As soon as I come home I

asked: What is it? Where do you come from? From Madani Saheb. As soon as I heard I took his

hands, pressed them to my eyes, wanted to kiss his feet. This man was bewildered, he could not

understand how should he be so disappointed in his feeling. Why? It is not the person, it was from

whom he came, whose message he brought, whom he represented. It is the same thing.

Q. Murshid, in this Western world people have not always such delicate form as in the East. But

if the heart is just the same?

A. But I should say that if it is in the heart right, it must be put in the right form too. One must

make an effort.

Q. In the play it says, Four days moonlight, after that dark night.

A. It is an Eastern imagery. They call this life of four days before death, that is what it means. It

only means that when you are living for four days on the earth, then you are known, people

know you. It is all an illusion. After that all is blank, you have gone. It is a dark night. Those before

whom the person is known, that person has appeared for how long? Four days is a kind of expression;

like one says: hundreds of people. There may be thousand or less than hundred, that is what they say.

Q. If all criticism was stopped, would not progress be hindered?

A. Suppose a criticism worked as a knife which cuts the fruit. But it is just as well that another

person were that knife and not oneself. If one can avoid being that knife, someone else may



be it. Nothing does always harm, and perhaps in the harm there is always some good. I think as far as

I have experience in the work of teaching and in my own work, I have always seen that blame and

desire to correct, I mean correcting is not always fruitful. I think one can correct better without

correcting, and one can help a person without blaming.

Q. Some people are so hard that they are only able to feel by criticism.

A. Yes, but there are many methods of doing it. May be that one can find out a method by which

one will not hurt anyone, and yet do it.

Q. Murshid, for an actor for instance, criticism is necessary.

A. Yes, but that is another thing. That has nothing to do with every day moral principle. That is

teaching.

Q. Yes, but when we use our discrimination, can we not sometimes criticize openly?

A. Yes, but a silent criticism is till more. Perhaps the one who silently criticizes may inspire a

person to do, better than the one who criticizes openly.



16.8.26 The Healing Breath

Monday The instruction paper

The authority of initiating others making you part of hierarchy

I

I would like to tell you something about the healing breath.

Some mureeds, those who desire to be healed by doing practices, may be taught to make a Fikar of

YA SHAFI - YA KAFI, inhaling and exhaling, repeating it mentally, and to direct their breath to the part

of the body which need to be healed.

But this is not only a teaching for healing, but this is a general teaching, that every adept who seriously

studies and practices Sufi exercises, must be able to consciously direct his breath to the painful part. It

will require at least six weeks, or sometimes three months, to be able to feel breath touching the

painful part in the body.

The best way of doing this exercise is to consciously direct first to the feet, to the bottoms of the feet.

Because the bottoms of the feet are sensitive. When one is able to direct the breath to both bottoms of

the feet, then next thing would be to direct the breath to both palms of the hands, and when that is

done, then to direct the breath towards the forehead, and when (that) is done, then to practice to direct

to the solar plexus.

When these practices are mastered, then the adept becomes a controller of breath. Then he can

operate the breath in any part of the body which needs healing. This practice must be done lying

down, and first thing in the morning. Many who seek true health and cure will be helped by it. It is not

only that, but it is a tuning of the body. It brings about a desirable condition of health.

II

Now there is another outer practice. You may give to the adept an outer practice of operating with

breath. First to project the breath imagining that the breath is a current of light, in front of oneself,

sitting (two meters away from the wall, at the same time feeling the wall). Then to send this current to

the right side and to the left side, and upwards and downwards. By practicing the projecting of the

breath as currents of light in five directions, one will be able to develop not only the healing power, but

at the same time the inspiring power, the power of helping more and more. In this way one will be able

to communicate mentally with others by the means of breath.

III

The third practice is the practice of unfoldment. This can be done by projecting the current of breath

on the left side of one’s breast, on the right side and in the center, which means on the solar plexus.

By projecting the current on the left side it will bring about the development of personality. By

projecting the current on the right side it will give power of action and by projecting the breath in the



center, means to the solar plexus, it will help the soul to unfold latent inspiration, and power will

develop. But these three practices may be given only to the most trusted mureeds.

With the first practice which I have said, the word of Fikar must be YA SHAFI - YA KAFI. With the

second practice any word of power, such as YA JALIL, YA KADIR, may be used. With the third

practice such word as YA WAHABO, which is the word of progress, and YA FAZIL (accent on FA

(note)) which is the word of illumination, that may be used.

The first practice may be done lying down.

The second practice and the third practice may be done sitting.

Q. 1 How does one feel that the breath has gone to the right place?

A. As I have said, either by a continual practice you will feel within six weeks; and if you do not

feel in six weeks, then certainly in three months time. Certain person who is very ethereal may

feel it the first day. That is very different.

Q. 2 What are the five directions of the second practice?

A. The first direction is center, next is left, third is right, next is above, and next is below. It may be

done in one foot distance; that means from the center one foot above, or one foot on each side,

and one foot below.

Q. 3 Murshid, do you mean that you choose a spot?

A. Yes

Q. 4 Should you try to see something particular?

A. No, only imagine first that you are projecting the current of breath, which is light itself, and

force, and power, on a certain point. By doing this you will get the use of breath power, the use

of magnetism which is there

Q. 5 How many times, please?

A. You can do a practice like this for five or ten minutes.

Q. 6 To any rhythm of breathing?

A. Breathing must be to the rhythm of four.

Q. 7 Murshid, always feeling that one is inhaling, one must imagine, from the starting point?

A. Yes.

Q. 8 If one wishes to send the breath to right or left, must one turn the head?

A. A little turning of the head.



Q. 9 Thinking of that part is enough to send the breath there?

A. Yes, that is the wonderful part of it, that breath works under the command of the will.

Q.10 To look at the feet when one wishes to send breath there?

A. No, at will, just to feel; to try and feel.

Q.11 Breathe entirely through the nostrils?

A. Entirely through the nostrils, because that is the natural breath. Through the mouth is a practice

which brings about a certain result. But mouth is not meant for breath, only nostrils.

Q.12 When you inhale, do you direct the breath to a particular spot?

A. No. When you inhale there is a will. You will. And when you exhale there is action. Because it

is quite contrary to the two other practices.

Q.13 Murshid, do you not think of drawing it in and then pointing it or directing it?

A. Yes, only the thing is that when you have to send it to a certain part of the body, the breath

must touch there while inhaling. But when you send it out, the breath must touch while

exhaling.

Q.14 That is permitted always to practice, even if it is not given as exercise?

A. Yes, it is either for self-healing, or for the practice of healing others, or for the practice of

operating one’s breath.

Q.15 A hundred times?

A. No, one need not count. Four, five minutes, or ten minutes the most.

Q.16 Five minutes for each practice?

A. Yes, five minutes for each of these three. But I should think it is too much to do all these three

practices together. If a person had much leisure, in that case I should advise them to do one

practice in the morning, the other in the evening, the other at night. To divide them like this. But

if one had no leisure, in that case one practice for three months, then another practice for three

months, and then another for three months.

Q.17 In the morning?

A. Yes, that is the best.

Q.18 If you give practices to invalids, only prescribe the Wazifa lying down, or sitting, or standing?

A. Mostly to the invalids I gave Fikar lying down, not the Wazifa. But if they are not in the condition

to sit, in that case it may be done lying down. Because Wazifa had a positive effect, and it is



more effective when a person is sitting.

Q.19 When you give a phrase and do not give any number of times, nor “before” or “after meal”,

does it mean once a day?

A. That only means that I have forgotten. It means: five times before and after each meal. (5

BAEM)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



GENERAL

I would like to tell you something about the healing breath.

Some mureeds, those who desire to be healed by doing practices, may be taught to make a Fikar of

YA SHAFI - YA KAFI, inhaling and exhaling, repeating it mentally, and to direct their breath to the part

of the body which need to be healed.

But this is not only a teaching for healing, but this is a general teaching, that every adept who seriously

studies and practices Sufi exercises, must be able to consciously direct his breath to the painful part. It

will require at least six weeks, or sometimes three months, to be able to feel breath touching the painful

part in the body.

These three practices may be given only to the most trusted mureeds.

11. Breathe entirely through the nostrils?

Entirely through the nostrils, because that is the natural breath. Through the mouth is a practice which

brings about a certain result. But mouth is not meant for breath, only nostrils.

18. If you give practices to invalids, only prescribe the Wazifa lying down, or sitting, or

standing?

Mostly to the invalids I gave Fikar lying down, not the Wazifa. But if they are not in the condition to sit,

in that case it may be done lying down. Because Wazifa had a positive effect, and it is more effective

when a person is sitting.

PRACTICE 1.

The best way of doing this exercise is to consciously direct first to the feet, to the bottoms of the feet.

Because the bottoms of the feet are sensitive. When one is able to direct the breath to both bottoms of the

feet, then next thing would be to direct the breath to both palms of the hand, and when that is done, then to

direct the breath towards the forehead, and when (that) is done, then to practice to direct to the solar plexus.

When these practices are mastered, then the adept becomes a controller of breath. Then he can operate the

breath in any part of the body which needs healing. This practice must be done lying down, and first thing in

the morning. Many who seek true health and cure will be helped by it. It is not only that, but it is a tuning of

the body. It brings about a desirable condition of health.

With the first practice which I have said, the word of Fikar must be YA SHAFI - YA KAFI.

The first practice may be done lying down.

1. How does one feel that the breath has gone to the right place?



As I have said, either by a continual practice you will feel within six weeks; and if you do not feel in six weeks,

then certainly in three months time. Certain person who is very ethereal may feel it the first day. That is very

different.

9. Thinking of that part is enough to send the breath there?

Yes, that is the wonderful part of it, that breath works under the command of the will.

10. To look at the feet when one wishes to send breath there?

No, at will, just to feel; to try and feel.

13. Murshid, do you not think of drawing it in and then pointing it or directing it?

Yes, only the thing is that when you have to send it to a certain part of the body, the breath must touch there

while inhaling. But when you send it out, the breath must touch while exhaling.

14.That is permitted always to practice, even if it is not given as exercise? Yes, it is either for self-healing, or for the practice of healing others, or for the practice of operating one’s

breath.

15. A hundred times?

No, one need not count. Four, five minutes, or ten minutes the most.

16. Five minutes for each practice?

Yes, five minutes for each of these three. But I should think it is too much to do all these three practices

together. If a person had much leisure, in that case I should advise them to do one practice in the morning,

the other in the evening, the other at night. To divide them like this. But if one had no leisure, in that case one

practice for three months, then another practice for three months, and then another for three months.

17. In the morning?

Yes, that is the best.

PRACTICE 2.

Now there is another outer practice. You may give to the adept an outer practice of operating with breath.

First to project the breath imagining that the breath is a current of light, in front of oneself, sitting (two meters

away from the wall, at the same time feeling the wall). Then to send this current to the right side and to the

left side, and upwards and downwards. By practicing the projecting of the breath as currents of light in five

directions, one will be able to develop not only the healing power, but at the same time the inspiring power,

the power of helping more and more. In this way one will be able to communicate mentally with others by

the means of breath.



With the second practice any word of power, such as YA JALIL, YA KADIR, may be used.

The second practice may be done sitting.

What are the five directions of the second practice?

The first direction is center, next is left, third is right, next is above, and next is below. It may be done in one

foot distance; that means from the center one foot above, or one foot on each side, and one foot below.

Murshid, do you mean that you choose a spot?

Yes

Should you try to see something particular?

No, only imagine first that you are projecting the current of breath, which is light itself, and force, and power,

on a certain point. By doing this you will get the use of breath power, the use of magnetism which is there

2. What are the five directions of the second practice?

The first direction is center, next is left, third is right, next is above, and next is below. It may be done in one

foot distance; that means from the center one foot above, or one foot on each side, and one foot below.

3. Murshid, do you mean that you choose a spot?

Yes

4. Should you try to see something particular? No, only imagine first that you are projecting the current of breath, which is light itself, and force, and power,

on a certain point. By doing this you will get the use of breath power, the use of magnetism which is there

5. How many times, please?

You can do a practice like this for five or ten minutes.

6. To any rhythm of breathing? Breathing must be to the rhythm of four.

7. Murshid, always feeling that one is inhaling, one must imagine, from the starting point?

Yes.

12. When you inhale, do you direct the breath to a particular spot?

No. When you inhale there is a will. You will. And when you exhale there is action. Because it is quite

contrary to the two other practices.



8. If one wishes to send the breath to right or left, must one turn the head?

A little turning of the head.

13. Murshid, do you not think of drawing it in and then pointing it or directing it?

Yes, only the thing is that when you have to send it to a certain part of the body, the breath must touch there

while inhaling. But when you send it out, the breath must touch while exhaling.

14. That is permitted always to practice, even if it is not given as exercise?

Yes, it is either for self-healing, or for the practice of healing others, or for the practice of operating one’s

breath.



16. Five minutes for each practice? Yes, five minutes for each of these three. But I should think it is too much to do all these three practices

together. If a person had much leisure, in that case I should advise them to do one practice in the morning,

the other in the evening, the other at night. To divide them like this. But if one had no leisure, in that case

one practice for three months, then another practice for three months, and then another for three months.

17.In the morning?


PRACTICE 3.

The third practice is the practice of unfoldment. This can be done by projecting the current of breath

on the left side of one’s breast, on the right side and in the center, which means on the solar plexus.

By projecting the current on the left side it will bring about the development of personality. By

projecting the current on the right side it will give power of action and by projecting the breath in the

center, means to the solar plexus, it will help the soul to unfold latent inspiration, and power will

develop. But these three practices may be given only to the most trusted mureeds.

With the third practice such word as YA WAHABO, which is the word of progress, and YA FAZIL

(accent on FA (note)) which is the word of illumination, that may be used.

The third practice may be done sitting.

9. Thinking of that part is enough to send the breath there?

Yes, that is the wonderful part of it, that breath works under the command of the will.



13.Murshid, do you not think of drawing it in and then pointing it or directing it?

Yes, only the thing is that when you have to send it to a certain part of the body, the breath must

touch there while inhaling. But when you send it out, the breath must touch while exhaling.

14. That is permitted always to practice, even if it is not given as exercise?

Yes, it is either for self-healing, or for the practice of healing others, or for the practice of operating

one’s breath.



16. Five minutes for each practice?

Yes, five minutes for each of these three. But I should think it is too much to do all these three

practices together. If a person had much leisure, in that case I should advise them to do one

practice in the morning, the other in the evening, the other at night. To divide them like this. But if

one had no leisure, in that case one practice for three months, then another practice for three

months, and then another for three months.

17. In the morning?


The instruction paper

In prescriptions, on one side of the two lines, the double line on the right side, on the right hand, I write

abbreviations such as: 1S, or 2S, or 3S, which means: First Study Circle, Second Study Circle, or

Third Study Circle, that the person may be initiated once or twice or thrice, according to the number.

And when I say: 1A, 2A, 3A, that means First Advanced Circle, Second Advanced Circle, Third

Advanced Circle; which brings a person to the sixth initiation. And when I say 1I, 2I, 3I, that means

First Inner Circle, Second Inner Circle, Third Inner Circle; that brings to the ninth initiation.



Name

Address

Town

Date

August

1925

Suresnes

France

2.1

Degree of initiation

Purification

Breaths

Wazifa

Zikar

Fikar

Kasab

Saum

Prf. 20 Hlp. Twice

Waf. Ya Habib 100

Zkr: 1-2-3-4 50

Fir. Rasul Mabul 100

Ksb. “Fazil” 30 twice

SM SLT

Un.

Healing Prayer

1 = La Ellaha El Allah Hu

2 = El Allah Hu

3 = Allah Hu

4 = Hu

Salat

Union

Q. It depends on the development of the person when you give initiation?

A. Certainly. It does not depend on how long they are with us. It depends on their development.

Because I have sometimes seen that after five years only the first initiation was continuing, and I

cannot see anything else. But in other cases it is again different.

Now I am coming to another question. That the initiation which entitles you to initiate others, this

authority makes you a part of the hierarchy. And when there is a hierarchy there is a certain discipline.

Either it is in connection to the Pir-o-Murshid, or to Murshidas, or in connection with Murshidas and

Shaikhs and Khalifs. It goes on like this. And to maintain that discipline is not only to maintain for those

who are above, but it is to maintain for one’s own turn also. In other words, the children who have

learnt what it is to obey, they will be the ones who will teach their children to be the same. There is

always a likelihood of disregarding this principle. I am telling you from my experience (with) which I am

faced again and again. It is not only an idea, but my personal experience. And that brings about

several difficulties. And we among ourselves must be prepared and ready to maintain this principle.



Because as long as this principle is maintained, so long there is the power of hierarchy. When this

principle is disregarded, then no longer the power of hierarchy works.

And if you ask: why does this question arise? There is in the whole world a spirit of revolt against

authority working continually through all directions of life. And this spirit can manifest in any person or

in any situation. It is manifesting so rapidly and in so many places that one would be simply surprised,

how is it possible. This spirit is manifesting among children towards their parents, and among younger

ones to the older ones, and among less cultured to more cultured people and among the people

towards the people of distinction. And as this is working invisibly through the minds of people it is

always inclined to take up the minds of those attached to hierarchy. And even one person so

influenced may cause a great deal of harm. And unless we among ourselves did not think about it and

bind ourselves together in one strength maintaining the dignity and the principle of the hierarchy of our

Order, we shall not be able to keep that dignity of the Message and of the Sufi Order as it is necessary

to be kept.

In this class we shall talk about things of greater importance; that is why I shall not say more about this

question. But those who want to know what made me say this, they may see Shaikha Susanna

Kjösterud at some leisurely hours, and she will tell them about the letter she has just now received.

That will acquaint you with the need of this principle.

In the East a Pir never had to say this; it is understood. He need not speak about it. But I have to say

it. I am very sorry. But even if by saying, if it can be done I shall be very glad about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now coming to the subject of psychological instruction; what the initiators will develop in themselves,

and what they will help to develop in those initiated.

The initiators will develop more and more insight into the human nature. The more they develop this

faculty, the more they will be able to work more successfully. And this can be better accomplished by

making it a point of spending so much time in the study of human nature. To take every person that

comes before them as a book, and to read in that person what they can read. And by doing this

practice they will be able to get an insight into human nature, and they will be more able to answer his

life’s demands. In order to get an insight, the best way is to make oneself negative. The more negative

the initiator is, the more he is able to understand his mureed. And the question: how should one make

oneself negative? The first thing is to let the mureed speak, instead of speaking oneself. To first let the

mureed act, instead of acting oneself. Give an accommodation or occasion to the mureed to express

himself. And in that way the initiator will be able to grasp the condition of a mureed. It would be a great

mistake on the part of the initiator if he wanted to express himself. Because that is where many make

a mistake. And in that way they are found out that that is not a Teacher. And really speaking, always



the false Teacher does it. Because he thinks that that is they way to dominate. But that is not the way

to dominate. And if that is the way of dominating, it is the way of the king, not of the spiritual Teacher.

His way is not the way of the hammer; his is the way of the water. Hammer can only make a way of

breaking the rock; but the water can only make its way by embracing it and pass above it. And that is

the way of the initiator.

And what the initiator must try to develop in the heart of the mureed is not the love of power or

phenomena, but the love of wisdom. And how must one do it? Not talking to the mureed wisdom, but

adding wisdom wherever and whenever it is lacking in his life, in everything he says and does and

thinks. And when he realizes that it is lacking (there is something lacking) that is the occasion for the

Teacher to add to it that which is lacking. The mureed will appreciate it enormously. Because every

soul looks for perfection. And when the want is filled, then that is the best help that one can give to the

mureed. But this wants patience on the part of the initiator: to wait till there is an occasion of adding

wisdom to the heart of the mureed.



18.8.26 The difference between mystic power and magic.

Wednesday

I would like to speak of the difference between the mystic power and magic. The difference is that the

mystic inclination is to develop the consciousness, expanding it and helping it to reach high. Therefore

the mystic is concerned with the service of others and with his own development. And magic is a

desire to have power over another, for one thing or another.

Therefore these two things have no connection whatever; one is leading toward perfection and the

other is leading to limitation. One uplifts and the other throws one down. And I have not seen one

person who has worked magic and had a good end. It never has happened and it never happens.

Magic is of six kinds: attraction, separation, grief, death, exile and discomfort. Attraction means to

draw a person, no matter how far distant a person is. The one who knows magic can attract that

person from a far distance; and that person would unconsciously come to this person without knowing,

without any feeling, without any thought, just like the cobra that just looks for the chicken, and the

chicken falls in its mouth. That is called attraction, that belongs to magic.

If a person wants to cause a separation of two loving friends he can very easily do it. Those loving

friends begin to feel distant from one another, from the time that that spell is cast on them, and they

would separate. Perhaps afterwards they would realize, but at that time they would separate.

And however happy a person may be, by the spell of magic that person may become unhappy. He

may have wealth, he may have power, he may have position, everything in the world he may have, but

if the person who causes magic wishes to cause harm, wishes him to have grief, everything would

seem troublesome to him, every condition turn into such a state that he would feel a grief in his life,

everything in the world would become as nothing to him.

And the one with magic power can very easily cause death. It is easier to cause a death than anything

else for a person with that power; and even to such an extent that even if that spell was cast on a tree,

the tree would die; if an animal, the animal would die. Even while doing that magic, if anyone came

before a magician, a person, an animal, a bird, a tree, that his glance would be cast on, that would die.

And then there is a power of making a person exiled, that a person who casts a magic on a person,

that the person may leave his country and go away. Something would come about that this person has

to leave. He cannot help it. He would be obliged to leave, and nothing in the world can keep him. And

suppose if this person was put into prison, then he would simply die because the inner urge of being

exiled would urge him on, urge him on till he was dead.



And a discomfort. The discomfort caused by a magic is a discomfort which has no remedy. No

medicine, no healing, nothing can touch that person.

But by explaining to you, what I want to say is this: that if magic, which is a small thing, a limited

person can do it, has such a great power, how much more power could be in the mystical thought.

There is no comparison! Thousand and million times more power. Only that the inclination of the

mystic is not to use the power. The inclination of the other person is to use it. He wants to experiment

it, because he has no faith. His faith comes by experimenting. The faith of the mystic is in God; he

need not experiment, and therefore all experiences are obtained as a result of his faith.

Q. What is the role that magic plays in manifestation, in life; what is the purpose of it?

A. It is a kind of craving for power. And you will see that there is such a craving for power in

people. They think that if by thought-power, or will-power, or magic power, they can master

things or master conditions or situations, or can do as they wish, they would like to do it. And

then before they are developed enough to have compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, if they

want to use that power for selfish purposes, that power is called magic. It is nothing!

Q. When a mystic uses that power for good purposes, can you call it magic power too?

A. No. Of course, Theosophists have called it white magic and black magic, but they have

coined other words too. They have made several races before they were born. That is another

question. But the mystic, he thinks, he believes in one power and that is the power of prayer,

and the power of spiritual influence. When a person is spiritual, naturally his influence will be

working for the benefit of others, whether he knows it or (does) not know it.

Q. Does the magician work by getting hold of some djinns?

A. There are many different ways. That is a very good question you have asked me. The

magician can produce Mawakuls, that means elementals. They can be produced by the

magician. But they become his enemies, just like the lions and tigers and elephants. When the circus

man trains them, they work under his control. They work as long as they are in that influence. But

there comes a day when the lion kills the circus man. He is always waiting for that opportunity when

he can kill. Therefore elementals are not friends; they are enemies. They are always waiting for the

opportunity when they can finish him. And that power can be so great in a magician that he can get

things by transmutation, that they are transmuted into the space, into ether, and then become again

objective. Even to such extent when this power of magic increases, even human beings can be made

in that way.

Q. Then for a short time?

A. Yes, for a short time.



Q. Is it true that these magic powers are still used by some religious orders?

A. The religious teachers have never taught magic power, nor Christ, nor Mohammed, nor

Moses. They have taught simple prayers. All the magic has come form the other people who

have made perhaps a community, or they have wanted to keep that community in a certain order, or

they wanted to keep their church as a prominent church … of all other churches. In that case they

have made magic. But really speaking what relation is there between a spiritual … and magic? There

is no relation.

Q. What can one do to get rid of the magic influence?

A. He must become a magician himself to get hold of him. A spiritual person can relieve a

person from any magical influence. By prayer much can be done.

Q. Must not every magician one day change his point of view, because the longing of every soul

is ….

A. Maybe, but before he changes his point of view he is dead, because the magic power hits

back terribly.

Q. Is the person always conscious of magical influence?

A. Sometimes he may not be conscious at all for years and years.

Q. So everybody is constantly in a danger, everybody can become a victim? What to do in order

to avoid this?

A. Yes, but everybody does not know magic! One must not always dream of magicians and

casting spells upon one, not to dabble with it. Just consider it as a superstition. I tell you

because you are esoteric students and you must know about it. The best thing is to keep it away. For

other people it is better not to think about it. Because for years and years their own thought will cast a

spell on them. The best thing for an average person is not even to believe in such a thing. But for you

it is better to know what it is, how many kinds of spells can be cast. It is better to have the knowledge.

But at the same time the best thing is to remove all such influences by the power of prayer. Besides,

once you do Zikar, then no magic spell can touch you. Zikar is the best practice to overcome any

undesirable spell. It cuts it just like a sword. Every movement of Zikar cuts away any spell, any

influence that is undesirable.

Q. If a mystic comes in contact with a magician……..

A. The magician will be ruined. They don’t come in contact, but if they do, then his power is

annulled, the magician’s power is annulled.

One day, it was a very amusing happening. I was giving a lecture and a monster-like face was just

sitting in my audience; such a monster-like face that everybody in the audience could be frightened by

it, a giant man with a monstrous face. He had his pupil with him, his chela. And as I was speaking I



was feeling as if a big rock was put upon my breast, that I could not breathe; and every word I would

speak was so heavy upon me. And I could not understand what was the matter. It was just like lifting

one big rock, every word that I would speak. I looked here and there.

I thought that there is some soul there is here … But this man was so attracted, and I could not help

looking at him. As soon as I found him, “Ah yes,” I said. As soon as I found him, then as soon as I

became conscious of him I averted the influence. Then I felt …. Then I gave a very good lecture,

afterwards.

Afterwards it was announced by the chairman that those who would like to see Murshid can come and

make acquaintance with him. So before anybody comes, I saw this monster-man coming toward me,

and his chela very proudly walking with him. And he had his magic wand on his palm. And first this

chela came and said, “Here is a wonderful soul.” I said, “You need not tell me! I feel it.” “I am so glad

that you two persons meet!” this chela added to me. I said, “It is very kind of you to feel like this.” And

then this magician came and shook hands with me, and when I shook hands with him there was a

magic wand in his hand. I at once looked. He nodded like this. So I said … The chela also was happy

to think that: there is a kind of communication between them! Nevertheless the power did not touch

me. But the house where I was living in that country, in that house there was a lady who told me that,

“There is a man who has a very bad influence on the whole town.” I asked her, “Who is that man? Is it

not the same monster-like man who came to my lecture?” “Yes,” she said, “It is a living plague; it is a

personification of devil in human form, who takes interest in causing hurt or harm or loss to another.”

And very often there are such people, and one does not know it. But always you will … If one is fine

enough to feel one will feel a kind of unclean atmosphere. That is the sign of it, and atmosphere which

gives discomfort, inharmony, unrest, uneasiness, and it takes away all the joy and peace from a

person. It is a feeling of death, the presence of that person is a feeling of death. And yet it is a power.

Q. Is it possible for a magician to make use of a real human being to use him to work against

others?

A. Ah yes, he can make one person kill another person without him touching him. And that

person goes to jail or life’s sentence! He need not kill another person. If he wishes to kill, he

can kill. But even for a magician it is not necessary that he should kill another person through

another person; he can do it without.

Q. Did he not get destroyed himself, that monster-man?

A. Every step in that path is toward destruction, every hour, every day, every moment this

person is going toward destruction. There is no doubt about it. Because when a person does

something that man cannot punish him, then God begins to punish him!

Q. Are many misfortunes caused by that?

A. Certainly!



Q. You have answered one of the questions; you said that life grows ever more mechanical. But

now there is another saying, that everything grows towards perfection as it goes on. How are

these two points of view to be understood? A. It can be understood in this way. One person takes a way from here to Etoile straight, strikes

a very straight, and easy way and a road which is safe. And there is another person who goes

first to Val d’Or, then he goes to Saint Cloud, then he sinks in the Seine, from there he is

taken out; then he goes to Auteuil, then he goes to St. German, then to Chatou, from there to

another country. And after having traveled like this for one month or two months, having

dropped into ditches, fallen in pitches, fallen in the water and mud, then in the end he

reaches the Etoile, the same place that the other person has reached by striking one clear

cut. So with humanity it progresses by experiences until it comes to the right place. Both

come to the same place in the end.

Q. Then humanity has reached old age?

A. That is the thing.

Q. Modern psychologists treating a person want to take away the feeling of shame in order to

cure a patient. Mystics have another idea about shame. How have we to look at it?

A. Mohammed has said, “Al Haya wal iman” – where there is shame there is religion, there is

faith. – And in saying this what he meant was: shame is self-respect, the spirit of honor. And

this is a subject which has interested me for my whole life, because whenever there is a wonderful

character, there is always shame behind it. It seemed as if the shame has helped the person along

throughout the whole life in order to become what it has become, a character which can be called a

piece of art, this character has been built by the sense of shame.

When the psychoanalyst has given up his feeling of shame, also others; he only knows one thing, the

way of surgery. The physician is not necessarily the way of surgery. There is medicine for everything

also, and if I were to tell you further: there will come a day when medicine, the science of medicine,

will so develop that they will see that surgery is a sin. That in the space, in the air, in the fire, in the

water, in the earth, there is every element that can be used for cures. And that is where the science of

medicine will culminate. And as long as the surgery is developing, you can be sure that medicine is

not going forward. It is a stoppage from soul’s evolution.

It is the same thing with psychoanalysis. It is mental surgery. When they see there is congestion, they

cut it, break it, let the blood go. But they do not know that by doing this the whole nervous system is

upset. And therefore one good and so much harm is done. Besides, perhaps one terrible thought of

fear, or doubt, or depression, or whatever it may be that is there in the subconscious and it is

congesting; in order to break that congestion the psycho-analyst has taken away the shame. That



means he has given a scratch and the matter has come out. But what about the whole nervous

system, the mental system which is built and sustained by honor.

Besides that, let us come to another question. So many people, outspoken, shameless, bold, foolishly

courageous, without any knowledge of secretiveness, are they all very sound in their minds? I should

think quite the opposite. They are the ones unbalanced, foolish, stupid, strong-headed and ill-

mannered. Because there is no manner of honor, of self-respect. When they have no sense of honor

and respect for themselves, they have not got it for another. Because they don’t know it, they have no

respect for another. It is going the wrong way.

The mystic, therefore, thinks that with this you can get a self-control; but the mystic also gives help.

That help is not psycho-analysis, but self-analysis. He trains the mureed in a way that the mureed may

analyze himself. And that is the best, the best analysis. The great Sufi poet Sa’adi in his Gulistan, has

a simple prayer, and I have always loved it. In this prayer he says, “Lord, let all my faults and

shortcomings be only known by myself and you, that I may not have to take them before others and

uncover them.”

The wife who has a sense of shame, honor, for her husband, the man who has a sense of shame,

honor for his family, the young man who has a sense of honor for his parents, all these different

conditions, the man who has the honor for himself and self-respect, is much superior to the one who

has none of these things, and who brings everything out that could just as well be kept behind. The

things of heart belong to the heart, they should not be placed before others. When your secret is

known to the others, then there is something in you that is broken. It is not only the secret, but it is also

the poverty, the weakness, the shortcoming. Why can one not manage to get above it, why must one

speak to others about it? there is no use in that.

Q. If he is a great psycho-analyst, he does not make people drop their shame as much as let

them become aware of the fact that they are ashamed.

A. Yes, that is very good, but at the same time this can even go so far that he makes them

aware of what they are ashamed of and says, “You do not need to be ashamed of it.” So that

little spark of shame which is there in the form of honor and respect, that is lost.

Now coming to another question, you might say that, “What is it after all, what is honor and pride, what

is it! Who knows it! How long does it last?”

Well, the thing is that the ego which is the main thing in the whole being, which is the principal being,

what is it? It is honor, it is respect, it is self-respect. That ego itself, from perfection to limitation, the

whole range of the ego is honor. For the reason the ego is created, the universe is manifest. For that

reason everyone in his own way is trying to reach perfection, because of that little spark of strength

which is in the soul. Therefore the ego is all. If there is anything of God, any spark of divine in man, it

is the ego. And what is ego? The attribute of ego is shame. And what makes one better? It is this



which makes one better, if one thinks, “Oh, my parents have made their name, shall I do anything that

will spoil their name?” – “I am looked upon as such and such; shall I do anything that will degrade that

reputation of mine!” And it is that which helps one to be what one should be. It is that sense. And if

that sense were not there, one would become bold and courageous, foolishly courageous. And then

what is the end? The end is that he is nothing, nothing for himself, nothing for others.

Q. Murshid, you should advise us never to say to a person to go to a psycho-analyst?

A. I would not go so far.

Q. It brings a great weakness in a person?

A. Of course. It brings not only weakness, but dullness. It makes one stone-like! Instead of one

living more, it makes one more deadened.

Q. What makes so many people false Masters just at this time?

A. They call themselves Masters.

Q. Why are there so many people who call themselves Masters?

A. They are like false diamonds.

Q. How is it meant: man, who is more dense than woman, has been the prophets and saints.

A. Man is denser, more dense. And that is why a girl of fifteen is wiser than a fifteen year

old boy, much wiser. That shows that if woman is not wise, it is a surprise; and if man is wise,

it is wonderful. Man has been the means, the process. But at the same time when you compare man

with woman, man is denser. And because man is denser, he is more dependent. Man is all his life

dependent upon woman; woman is not. I mean an infant cannot be taken care of by the father, or by a

man. He needs the mother or a woman to take care of him. Man cannot do it. Therefore an infant,

whether boy or girl, is dependent from his childhood, for his whole life, in some form or another, on

woman.

Q. Is not the intuition of a woman that ………..

A. Yes, intuition is the sign of fineness. Man in his make is coarser. Naturally the same thing is

the mentality. And that is why when a woman is prudent, she is most prudent. When a man is

prudent, he may be wise yet there is something lacking. Woman can complete it.

Q. What is then the reason, although women are more fine than men, they seek their ideal in

man?

A. Well, but man looks to see up to a woman also, does he not? He may proudly not confess it,

but at the same time man as much, or even more, looks at the ideal in a woman. The more

wise he is, the more thoughtful he is, the more intellect he has, the more he looks up to a

woman. Imagine the mother. The child never has in his life one person in the whole world



whom he can look up to in the same way as he does to his mother. It is natural. As soon as

one becomes thoughtful, he cannot help looking up to a woman.

Q. A girl in her infancy has very often very great respect for the father. When she becomes

thoughtful, her respect for the mother grows more and more.

A. Certainly. But there is a saying; it is not a psychological or philosophical saying, there is a

belief in the East that the girl who is like her father will be lucky, and the boy who is like his

mother will be lucky. Because the reason is different. The reason is that they make balance. The boy

like mother makes a balance, and the girl like father makes a balance. It only indicates balance.

But I should say any child, no sooner it will become thoughtful, they will know what sacrifice mother

has made and what sacrifice father has made. As soon as they become thoughtful, they esteem

mother more than the father. If they don’t, their eyes are closed, they don’t know it, because it can be

seen by the sacrifice. The sacrifice on the part of father is much less than on the part of mother.

Q. Both sexes are balanced?

A. Yes, it is true.



20.8.26

Friday

What attitude Mureeds will take towards those who have their own opinion

about Pir-o-Murshid and the Cause.

You cannot expect all the people in the world to have the same opinion. You will always find some

appreciative, some sympathetic, some ignorant, and some opposed. May be that a person who is

opposed to the Cause and to Murshid will make you revolt and will make you indignant towards him by

his remarks. Someone ignorant of Murshid and (the) Message will have his point of view. Someone

who is sympathetic may show perhaps more sympathy than you have, and that will be also a surprise,

and maybe that he will show much less sympathy, and that might make you feel strange. And then

you might come in contact with someone who is devoted, but whose conceptions are not as your own

perhaps. He raises Murshid too high in your estimation, or perhaps he keeps Murshid too much

beneath the conception that you have of Murshid. And even in that case it will be disagreeable. And

therefore the best thing you can do in facing such different situations is to agree with the one who has

the slightest feeling of friendship and sympathy. If he shows a higher conception of Murshid and the

Cause than you have, you must know that it is his business. You are not obliged to have that

conception; and if he takes a lower conception than you have, you only will feel that: one day he will

have the same as I. And the one who opposes the Message, you will think you will try and make him

see in the right light with patience, with endurance. You will tolerate all his opinions, your tolerating will

help the Cause more than your revolting against him. And if the person is ignorant of the Cause and

Murshid, that is still more easy for you to acquaint him slowly, patiently, hoping that one day he will

come to the same conception. But gradually not at once. Sometimes a sudden shock given puts a

person off from his equilibrium. It shakes his whole nervous system before he can be brought to a

normal condition. Never, therefore, give him a shock. Nothing can give a greater shock than an

opinion suddenly expressed, good or bad. Do not mind if another person gives you a shock, you will

be prepared for it. But you may never give a person a shock, because know that by having a shock,

he will never recover from it, and you will never be able to bring him again to a normal condition of

mind. The best thing therefore is a gradual development. Wait with patience, and hope, tolerate and

endure every opinion that comes before you. Face it, that will give you strength, and courage to

another person to reach to the height of your opinion.

Q. Murshid, do you mean that we should not at once tell a person how much we are devoted to

this Cause?

A. Yes, stand on the same level where the other person is standing. That means, never stand on

a higher pedestal when the other person is standing on a lower level. Stand with him first,

quite close to his opinion. For instance, suppose a person says, “What is it, is it not all silly?” Suppose.

People are quite ready to make an opinion, express their opinion. If you say, “What do you say, how

dare you say such a thing, have you any sense, you are quite ignorant, you are a fool, you are stupid,



you are strong-headed.” Well, then it is broken. But if you say, “Maybe there is another point of view,

one might look at it from. There are many silly things which appear to be silly, but at the back of it

there is something worthwhile, it is as we look at things.” As soon as you say, there are other silly

things, that, if we knew them better, we might find out something, you at once come nearer to this

person, and yet you do not commit yourself, you do not say, this is silly, with them, but at the same

time you say that there are other silly things also which are better. In this way you raise the standard

of your own word, and do not call it silly. You are on the same level. In this way you can raise a

person. But as soon as you say you are silly, this is stopped. Now, this is the worst example I have

given, this is the worst case; but I would not be surprised that you will face this thing in your life.

Q. Once a person came to me and said, “I do not understand you, you give that much time."

A. Yes, but you have such an easy answer for this. Can anyone understand anyone’s

devotion? Even if you have devotion for a stone, for a rock, no one can understand devotion; no matter

for whom … of devotion, another person can never understand. Please tell me that a person

has a devotion for something, and another person understands him. It is impossible.

Devotion is the one thing that is not understood by another. It is very easy. There at once he

will meet you. But if you say, “What is devotion?” Instead of raising it, you have thrown it

down in his heart, because you are defending something which has no existence for him. In

order to make it living for him you must fight him on his own grounds. Devotion is the one

thing that no one can understand.

Q. Often when one speaks with people they have so many questions, always more questions.

They are very difficult to deal with. They will not understand, still they have the desire to

understand.

A. You must go with them very slowly. Now I shall tell you one instance; I had many instances,

but I will just give you one instance, that a lawyer came to see me who had heard about me

from an adversary, and as many bad ideas (as) could be given were given to him about the Cause,

and then he was a materialist, he had never believed in God or soul or the hereafter, and he always

thought that anything that has the slightest appearance of religion or sacredness is nothing but

humbug. And a friend, a mureed, brought him to see me, thinking that all his arguments and every

discussion that he made, perhaps Murshid will answer, if there is anybody to answer it. And when this

man came his whole atmosphere was throwing knives before he spoke. His eyes, through his glance

you could see that spears were going towards me. Then he asked me questions. And every question

he asked me was rooted out with a soft touch of a sharp knife in three words. I did not ask him one

question. And what was the end of it? After his fifty questions he began to smile, and after twenty-five

questions more he began to feel comfortable, and after a hundred questions, would you believe that

he shook hands with me and said, “I feel sympathetic towards your Cause.” In that way he went out.



Do you think how beautiful our Cause is, do you think how wonderful our work is, how right we are and

you are all wrong, how strong we are in our argument, our dogmas, principles, tenets, are so

wonderful, so true; nothing of it.

Do you think that I contradicted any question that I asked? Never. Then what did root it out? Just a

soft, gentle reasoning. That is the idea. There are two ways. There is one way of the hammer to make

a way. When there is a rock standing, the hammer breaks it, breaks it, breaks it, then it makes its way.

If the rock is too strong, then the arm breaks, hammer breaks and the rock still stands. There is the

other way of the water. It rises, it goes, it makes an attempt, perhaps after a hundred attempts it

reaches the rock. Instead of breaking the rock, it sweeps over it and surrounds it and drowns it in the

end. That is the soft way. The way of the mystic must be the soft way. If our way will not be soft, then

whose way will be soft?

Q. Sometimes people inquire about the Cause in a humorous way and a rather disrespectful

way, and yet behind it all there is the desire to find out. It is difficult to answer.

A. A humorous answer can come just like a wind which blows away the dust. The question like

dust when it comes up sends the wind to throw them off. Therefore humorous question must

be answered humorously. But it must be such a wisdom put in that humor that one wind may

blow it out, and when he asks the next question he will have a different mood. But that needs

wit.

Q. If you have to do with people who are not exactly opposing the Message, but who have a

resisting influence?

A. I would not bring on the prominence of the Message, the Movement, the Society. But I would

bring ideas to the prominence first, and if they are interested in ideas, then that is the net,

they have to come into the net, and secondly it will develop. When I was coming from New York I

never spoke to any passengers on the steamer, because I was wanting to take some rest, and they

did not know who I was. And there was an evening I was asked to speak. There was a concert to take

place, and I was asked to speak. I could have spoken about Sufi Message, and I would have talked

about our Movement, but I did not think (it) proper to do so. I took the opportunity just in speaking on

the general subject. But the effect was that next morning many came to ask me if there were some

books they could get, and I gave them the address where they could buy books. Naturally, if they

would have bought books, then the third step will be that they will understand the Movement. And I will

give you another example. When visiting Los Angeles lately, I met a very interesting man, and who

was going to organize a very interesting society which could be of a great importance for our

Message. Do you think that at the first moment I spoke to him about the Message? Not at all. I did not

even tell him that we have a Movement. Then what I did? I heard all he had to say. That is all. And

appreciated all he had to say and then sent him the books as a gift, and I never saw him again. And

today I have received a letter from Los Angeles, saying that this man was looking for the Movement,

where it is, and where he can find some people, and he has found. And he says he will do his best to

help the Message. He has bought several books and is giving to the people presents here and there.



That was a very good thing, for the person himself to come and find out, instead of saying, “We have a

Movement, we have a Society, please come there.” Reality will make its effect one day. If not today it

will make it tomorrow.

Q. What to write to a person who would like to hear about Sufism?

A. I would write in a letter “Sufism” a hundred times.

Q. What can we do if we feel like asking forgiveness of a person who has already passed to the

other side of life?

A. The best way to ask forgiveness of a dead one is to ask forgiveness of God. God’s

forgiveness will reflect on that person. That is the best way, that God’s forgiveness will reach.

Anything that feels uncomfortable we must ask God’s forgiveness, may God forgive us. To

say it to oneself. In that way God’s forgiveness reflects through that person, and then all is

forgiven.

Q. Does God not always forgive?

A. Yes, but by asking consciously God’s forgiveness, Gods’ forgiveness comes in our

consciousness. God has forgiven already, but by asking God’s forgiveness it reflects in our

consciousness. Also in the consciousness from the one whom we wish that would forgive us.

In the East there is, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers that, no matter how much good you

have done, but if your parents remain dissatisfied with you, you are not forgiven. The meaning is that

God always forgives, and who does not forgive is man .And that parents, we owe to them the most,

and by asking their forgiveness only that debt can be paid. But not paying it back, because we can

never pay it back. In the same light we can see this idea with every person. It is easy for us, for one to

forgive another, but it is difficult to get the forgiveness from another. Because we can forgive another

person if we want to forgive, but another person cannot forgive. Therefore to forgive is easy, and to

ask forgiveness of another is most difficult. And God’s forgiveness is always there, but man’s

forgiveness must be obtained. That can be obtained by making our consciousness saturated by God’s

forgiveness. And that person who has not forgiven will come to us. And if a person is clear of vision he

will feel it; just as one feels cold or heat one will feel the forgiveness of another person. And it is so

very easy to offend, and it is so very difficult to make up. In just a lest little thing w can offend another

without knowing it, and to make up it is so difficult. It is just like lifting a mountain, you can ask and

ask, and you can do and do what you like, and may not be forgiven. Because many people are unable

to forgive. The cannot forgive, they are not capable of forgiving. They cannot forgive, because they

cannot forget. The first step in forgiving is to forget, and everybody is not capable of forgetting. It is an

impression which can be deeply rooted in a person. Even if a person wanted to forget he cannot

forget. And if one cannot forget, then one cannot forgive. If a person says, “Oh yes, I forgive you,” that

is not enough. He must first forget. Then only he can forgive. And the one who has got the key to get

the forgiveness of others, that is the man who conquers the world.



Q. How to give a person courage?

A. By appreciating all the good they can do, you can give them courage.



23.8.26 Concentration for development of the spirit.

Monday

For the development of the spirit, concentration is the first thing that is needed. But the initiator must

know which concentration would be best for the mureed. A mureed who is materially inclined and yet

asking for truth needs spiritual inclination. In order to give him spiritual inclination he should have the

concentration of the heaven. Now there are three objects: the sun, the moon, and the stars. In order to

produce the Jemal quality one may give the concentration of the moon; but it must be crescent, not full

moon. In order to create Jelal quality you may give the star; in order to create Jemal quality you mage

give the crescent. In order to produce Kemal quality you may give the sun.

It is always dangerous to produce Kemal quality in anyone. It is only good for someone who wishes to

stay in retirement and develop spiritually, and has nothing to do with the world. And therefore the sun

must not be given to everybody, except someone who is willing to live a hermit’s life, and who is willing

to go into the retirement, and who would be inclined to go away from the world.

The star must be given to everybody mostly. Because life is a conflict; and in order to be able to

struggle along everyone needs power. And therefore the concentration of the star is always advisable.

And then there is a concentration of the crescent. It must be given to a person who is helpless before

his passions and emotions and wrath and anger. That, who cannot control himself, and cannot be

gentle and thoughtful and considerate, and mild; it is that person who should be given the

concentration of the crescent.

And now coming to the other kind of persons, who are too much spiritually inclined, and who must be

brought to the earth. There must be another concentration, earthly concentration. They must be made

to stand on the earth, and their attention must be drawn from the sky. And in doing so one may give

the concentration of different colors: in two forms. Either in the form of flowers or in the form of

precious jewels. In the form of flowers the concentration must be given to such persons who are Jelal

in nature, in other words, who are strong, positive, hard in nature. And you must not think that spiritual

persons are not strong, not hard in nature. They can be. So by giving the concentration of flower you

will soften them, and a balance will be brought about.

And if the person is of a Jemal character, in order to strengthen him, in order to give him power you

will give him the concentration of the precious stones. That will bring a powerful quality.

Now, which stones must be given for what purpose? And which flowers must be given for which

purpose?

Stones

- By giving topaz one will produce harmonious quality in a person



- By giving diamond one will produce righteous quality, righteousness.

- By giving emerald one will produce the progressive quality, progress; also outgoing

nature.

- By giving ruby one will produce in a person warmth and vigor and life and loving quality.

- By giving sapphire you will produce in a person imagination, rapidity in action, progress,

activity and intellectuality.

Flowers

- By giving the concentration of the sun-flower one will produce love of Truth, and

- perfection, and insight.

- By giving rose-flower one will help the mureed to develop his personality.

- And yellow flowers will bring about a balance between spirituality and worldly life.

- And by giving the concentration on white flowers, one will develop the character of the

person.

- By giving fragrant flowers you will help the mureed to develop his character, his

personality.

- By giving orchids you will develop artistic faculty in the mureed.

- Any color that is mauve, or scarlet, or crimson, any flower of that color will take away the

lightness from the nature of a person, and give a weight to the character.

- And by giving saffron flower to concentrate one will produce joy and pleasure and

happiness.

A consideration must be given to the need of the mureed. One must first see into his life, and inquire

all about his condition, and then see what is required in his life.

Q. Murshid, in the concentration on the fragrant flowers, should the scent be imagined?

A. No, even the thought of sandalwood will create the scent of sandalwood. You cannot think of

sandalwood without its fragrance.

Q. The flower need not be in front of the person?

A. It is always a poor concentration when a person takes a thing before him. As great singers

always sing without an instrument, and that gives a great power to their voice.

Q. Would you explain what it could mean when a person always sees an object they are

concentrating upon, the opposite color to what it is? For instance, a white object they see it as

black. Complementary? A. Their mind is upset. Always that is so.

Q. Is there any cure for it?

A. Yes, it is a mind which is upside down. As I have … in the play of “Bogey-man”, the woman

who saw the color of the Guru. First she thought the Guru had gold around him. Then it



became red. Then scarlet; then the Guru disappeared. That is again the same example, the

example of the confused mind.

Q. About how long give the concentration for beginners?

A. Five minutes. Too much concentration is again undesirable.

Q. Is it good for beginners to establish at first in the mind, then holding concentration? For

everyone?

A. Yes, for everyone. That is the easiest and best way of concentration. The movement always

helps. As soon as you say, “Think of the rose,” and a person puts his hand here: (here he

showed how to touch one’s forehead, just in the middle, between the eyes, with the index and thumb

of the right hand). As soon as he puts his hand he can help mind to concentrate on the rose. And then

he can take it just like this: (stretching one’s right arm, keeping the hand in the same position and on

the same level as it was when touching the forehead, straight in front of one.) And this action of

stretching his hand and keeping it before him, this action runs as a current into the mind. And by

holding this way the mind is holding the thought, the concentration.

It is most wonderful how the Teachers of concentration taught people in the East. A person went to a

Teacher of concentration and said that, “My beloved friend is very much displeased with me. Please

give me a concentration. Give me some way how to do it.” And the Teacher said, “On the day of the

first moon, before the sunrise, you must wake up and then you must go near the Ganges. And there

you must wash your hands. And then, with washed hands, you must go and find the plant of the

champak-flower. And then you must pick the champak-flower before the sunrise, and then come back.

And when with that champak-flower you will go to your beloved, she will forgive you.

Now what is it all? It is all concentration. When a person will think that he has to get up early in the

morning before sunrise, all the twelve hours he will sleep in that concentration. Perhaps he will not

sleep all night. And then early in the morning he goes to the Ganges. And then while going there is the

same thought. And when he washes his hands with the same thought in that action. Then he goes to

see for the plant of the Champak; it is the same thing. And then he brings the champak flower in the

same thought. Therefore, if the thought is held in the mind by the help of some action for twenty hours,

naturally that thought brings about the good result.

I will tell you a little story, a very amusing story. One day a young man came to me in England and

said that, “My young girl is displeased with me, and she is not the same as she was always.” Poor

young man, he was really very disappointed. I said, “What is the matter?” He said, “She is not kindly

inclined to me. She is quite changed. I had not seen her.” I said, “I cannot believe it.” As soon as I

said, “I cannot believe it,” his face beamed. Because he had believed it. He was so glad; he was most

happy. But he said, “I see it; every day I go she is not the same as she was before.” “Do you really

believe it?” I said, “go just now and see.” “Do you really mean it?” And he went there and was received



very cordially. He was so happy. Next day he came to me, “Murshid, I am so happy, I don’t know how

to thank you; I am so grateful to you!” But after eight days he went again, and then she had a long

face. Next time when he came back he said, “Murshid, I want to take my life. She is again changed.” I

said, “Changed? I cannot believe it.” “Murshid, how shall I tell you! It is true. I have been twice there;

she is quite changed.” “I cannot believe it! You go just now and see.” And the day he went the whole

thing was changed, she was quite all right. He was very pleased.

What is this? It is the concentration. It is on his part concentration and my concentration is the strength

behind him. My thought was his backbone. And when he went it was that concentration. And when he

went there it was quite all right.

Q. Would that be permanent?

A. It may not be permanent. But even a transitory change is a very great change. Besides, what

is life? Life is a change. It may be permanent. But in the end I told that what comes naturally,

where there is a natural sympathy, that is more dependable. And where there is a kind of

desire to force one’s concentration and thought upon another person, in the first place it is

not right. It is a wrong thing. But only in order to give him faith in concentration I told him what

is possible, in order to show him the possibility what can be done, what is possible in the

world. Because his mother was a mureed, and he was always doubting. And then his mother

took a chance at the time when he was in utter despair.

Q. Because you told us one cannot change one’s nature.

A. Nature is the foundation, character is the building, and personality is the furniture, decoration

of the house.

Q. What is temperament?

A. Temperament is nature.

Q. Is it a part of nature?

A. It is a part of nature. It is nature itself. But this is the most difficult thing to find out why people

become friends. Sometimes they are so different from one another that you cannot imagine.

Q. Is it not some attraction of the soul?

A. But they may have such a difference of nature, is it not so, very often? They may have quite

an opposite nature, absolutely, and then they are friends. That is the most difficult thing, to

find what is it. And if there is any explanation of it, it is only that there is a lack, there is a

want, and that want is filled by the other.

Q. What is the strongest friendship, where there is a lack, or where there is sympathy?

A. Where there is sympathy. Because whenever there is a lack, when this lack is answered or

filled, then there remains friendship. But if that lack is more amply filled, then that friendship



can break. But where there is a sympathy, that lasts.

Q. Do you mean by sympathy, where there are alike, similar qualities?

A. No. For friendship it is not necessary to have similar qualities. But sympathy may help them

to have similar qualities. When there is real sympathy people become the same. And it is

most wonderful to notice, especially in the Order of the Sufis, that I have been initiated in

personally the Chistia Order, that for five hundred years or more we find the mureed, the

Murshid and his Khalifs have become so alike in their character, in their personality, that we

can trace back seven hundred years record of finding the likeness of character and

personality. It is wonderful to feel that twenty saints have been the same in all ages, in their

personality, in their outgoing, in their sympathy. It is simply wonderful.

Q. What is reflection, Murshid?

A. Reflection.

Q. Only one?

A. Only one, perhaps may be more, the principal mureed. But still in this school there is a great

influence of the character, more than in the other schools such as Qadiri, Naqsh Bandi,

Surawardia and other schools. In the Chistia School there is very much likeness.

Q. Less difference?

A. No, not in the main teaching, but in the ways. And I think this school of the Chistia is

developed more by the love of art and poetry and music. That this gives a new life to it.

Q. Naqsh Bandi …

A. Naqsh Bandi, they are concentrative. It is quite a different side of mysticism. But Chistia are

more artistic. Besides, this color, this yellowish color, this belongs to Chistia.

Q. Are we allowed to say that we are derived from Chistia?

A. Certainly. And besides, Chisti saints have done wonderful work in harmonizing the many

different sects. It is in this way that in their homes there was welcome to all alike. And the

courtesy and the sympathy that went out from the Chistis was equal to the Moslems, Hindus,

Buddhists, Christians, Jews, always. In the world’s history you can always find.

Q. They are more numerous than the others?

A. Yes, today there is a large number of Chistis, and their sympathy and courtesy is very great.

As a rule in the East they are not in the habit to have many woman Teachers. Although, among Sufis

there was Rabia, a saint very well known. And there have been many other women, great souls, who

have been saints; their saintly qualities have been recognized. In spite of all that, when Murshida

Martin went to India in one of the biggest and most distinguished houses of the Chistia Order she was



welcomed and a great sympathy and homage was paid to her. And when she gave a lecture there

were five thousand people present. And the head of the Sufi School of Delhi, who never goes out

except in special cases, he went there to take the chair. ( This is what Murshida Martin has said about

Khwaja Hassan Nizami, who lives near Nizamuddin.) That shows that the sympathy of the Chistia will

always be there. In the same way in Ajmer where there is another great school of the Sufis: there

Murshida was invited, and they held for her the Sama, sacred meeting of music, in which other

persons are not allowed. So you can see, with the Eastern ideas, exclusive, having their own

particular ways, still they are open and desirous to honor, to recognize the Sufi flame wherever it is

lightened, isn’t it? That is the proof of it. We have the proof of it there.

Q. Is it enlarging much in India?

A. Yes, it is, very much. But the idea is that the Sufi School is one thing, and the Sufi Message

is another thing. If the Sufi School is spreading in India, of course it will make it easy for us.

But it is the Sufi Message that must spread there.

We have not yet some workers who will take it up there. It is a very difficult place and an easy place at

the same time. Once it is started it will go among thousands and thousands. There is no end to it,

once it is started. But the greatest difficulty is to start.

Q. Would they take it from a Western person?

A. But she made a mureed in Delhi, (the mureed was Ahsan ul Hnq.) and she did not stay there;

she was just a traveler. I am sure that Western initiators will be able to do a great deal of work

there. Only the time must come, is not there. First something must be prepared. Besides, the Message is universal, and it is quite different from what the Sufi Schools can do. And

when the Message reaches, it will reach all different classes of people.

Q. Murshid, it will satisfy the Indian soul in greater number in the East than the European soul?

A. Yes; but the thing is this that for every country there is a certain need. And the Message is the

answer to that need; for every country, for the East as well as for the West.

Now another example. There came the other day a Shaikh here, the Arab. (the Shaikh from the

Mosque in Paris.) He had never heard about such a universal Message, and he is a man who himself

is initiated in the Sufis. But at the same time the universality of the Message and the Message itself,

he had never heard about it. First he heard from me; and then he came here and heard the lecture I

made, translated into French. He corresponded a little. And when I explained my ideas, his pupil was

getting very much annoyed. Because he thought, “It is too broad!” but this man always tried his best

not to be annoyed; all the time I was speaking with him he tried his best not to be annoyed. And he

was able to do so. And the next thing he came here. And after coming he expressed his joy here

(note: in the oriental room after the Sunday public lecture of August 1st). He said, “In my whole life I

have never heard such a lecture. It was wonderful!” A person like that, who says, he really means it.



He said, “I wish that this Message should spread all over. And anything I could do I should be glad to

do.”

Now that is the evolution of that particular race, it is a hundred times denser than the people of India.

And when the Message reaches the people of India, they will begin to sparkle. Because they are born

in that in Vairagya. They are born with that idea of the spiritual ideal and devotion and reality and

Truth. No matter what religion they belong to, they are born with it. So you can see that if success

begins in India it will be the greatest success. The only difficulty is the beginning.

He was telling me – the Shaikh – that the people, who have worked in the Mosque, have not yet

finished. They will be here for six months longer. If I remember that it makes me so uncomfortable.

Imagine after six months they will go! In order to get these workers we may have to spend thousands

and thousands of rupees.

But this particular idea of the workmen being here, such a tempting ideal – Specially what I like is the

inner work, the inside.



25.8.26 Diet

Wednesday

Today I was going to tell you about the diet in connection with your spiritual work.

Since Sufism does not urge, does not enforce, any principle or dogma upon its members, naturally this

cannot be said much in public. But when it comes to some few who sincerely devote their life to

spiritual advancement, it is necessary then to speak about it. The question is: has food any effect on

man’s character, on man’s mentality, on the spirit of man? Certainly it has. Vegetarian food gives

vegetable qualities, animal food gives animal qualities. But besides that, there are herbivorous animals

and there are carnivorous animals. They are herbivorous because they are by nature harmless, and

they are carnivorous because they are not harmless. Therefore the food of any animal gives the same

quality to the person. Animal food and vegetable food apart, even vegetables or spices or other

eatables which have earthly qualities, water element, fire element, air element, give the similar quality

not only to the body, but also to the character. For instance, in the East very often one sees that a

person addicted to eating pepper in the long run develops an angry nature; a person addicted to

spices develops a fiery temperament, and so on.

Now in animal food the most harmful one is that of the pig – pork or ham. If not, Moses would not have

anything against it, because he was as kind to the pig as to the other animals. If Moses said, “You

must not eat,” that only means that one partakes the character of that particular animal. And very often

people now give an excuse, that at that time, the time of the Prophets, pigs were not clean, but now

pigs are clean. But I say that it is not only the cleanliness of the pig, it is the character of the pig. The

pig in character lacks dignity. That is why. Besides, the inclination of the pig is toward the dirt; it likes

to sit in a dirty place. By nature it is dirty. Therefore by the eating of it, it gives the same character in

some form or the other. Other bad animals are not eaten by people, only this one animal is eaten.

Whereas other animals have harmless qualities, and they live on the grass or corn, and therefore their

meat is allowable from every point of view, except that it is always a pity when man has to kill animals

for his own food. The teachers of all times allowed this because of the famine; in the famine there was

not enough grain. And therefore this was allowed, the flesh food. It is only allowed for that purpose.

And then they had battles, and in travelling they could not get food. Then they could hunt; they could

get what they wanted from the animal world for their subsistence.

Of course, when you come to the point of view of the saint of Baghdad, which I told the other day, who

has asked his mureed to fast while he was eating chicken, that is another point of view. The story tells

that it became alive. But that is symbology. One need not be a juggler to make a hen alive in order to

prove oneself saint. But the symbology is that the soul who is going forward toward perfection,

everything that he partakes is added toward that perfection. In that way everything he has eaten has

not become dead, but has become living. That which was meant to be dead even has become living

because he has taken it. But that is not the point of view which one can teach.



There then is another point of view, that there are some persons who live to eat, and there are others

who eat in order to live. And these two persons are different. To become immerged in the spirit is to let

the substance which is material become etherealized. The whole secret of spiritual development is in

the etherealizing of the atoms of the physical body. The reason is that the mind is not only the source

of thinking, the heart not only the source of feeling, but even the body is the medium of feeling and of

thinking. In other words, the mind alone does not think, but the body thinks also; the heart alone does

not feel, but the body feels also. In other words, as the mind is a vehicle of thinking faculty, so the

body is a vehicle also of the faculty of thinking and of feeling. The more, therefore, the body is made

thinking and feeling as mind, the more a person becomes spiritualized. The sign of spiritually

advanced person is not only that he feels by his heart and thinks by his mind, but that he can feel by

his touch, that he can think by the sight. In other words, the body, mind and soul come together, and

three become one as one advances towards spirituality.

Q. Murshid, what do you mean by ‘the atoms of the physical body are etherealized’; do you

mean ether? You can touch it; but the body of a spiritual person can be seen and touched just

the same. A. Etherealized means they become more feeling; they feel more. The nerves, the flesh, the

skin, feel more.

Q. Finer?

A. Yes. They say that Moses had a radiance in the palm of his hand and whoever he would

touch would become well. Now that is symbolic also. It is not necessary that there should be a

lantern burning in the palm of the hand; only it is the etherealized condition of the palm. The

palm was so etherealized that the touch of Moses could heal.

Q. In this way can the body of a spiritual person think and feel and perceive while his soul is

centered in a higher plane?

A. No. Without the soul the body is dead. If the soul is not conscious of the body, the body is not

conscious of itself. Because soul itself is consciousness, and the consciousness of the body

comes from the soul. For instance, a person is sitting quietly and wood from the ceiling

suddenly falls. Before the mind has time to think, the consciousness of the body tries to

protect itself. That shows that mind does not think alone, but the body can think also. But at

the same time, when the body thinks, the mind is not absent; the mind thinks also, by the

body, and the soul thinks also. All three act together.

Q. Murshid, that is why Hinduism says that there are bodies covering each other, the mental

body and the physical body?

A. Yes, it is so. But in other words the soul can act without the mind, but the mind cannot act

without the soul; the mind can act without the body, but the body cannot act without the mind.



The lower the existence, the more dependent upon the higher existence. The body depends

upon the mind and the soul, but the mind and soul are not absolutely depending upon the

body for their existence. In other words: eyes can see better through the telescope, but the

telescope cannot see without the eyes. So the soul can see better with mind and body, but

the body cannot see without mind and soul.

Q. Is the mind the cover of the soul, and the body the cover of the mind?

A. Yes, that is so. But they are vice versa too. The body is the cover of the mind, and the mind

of the soul. And soul is a cover of the mind, and mind is the cover of the body. And that

picture you can see better in “The Soul whence and whither.”

Q. Is that the principle why we need our physical brain to think?

A. It is a vehicle to make things clear.

Q. There is a principle of nature, law of sacrifice, that every life lives on life. Why is it for the

spiritual person not nice to kill animals when this law is universal?

A. Please know that there is nothing which is not nice for the spiritual person. That principle

always remember. All that the spiritual person does is all right. But to become spiritual there

are some things which are not nice. That is the idea. It is to attain it. When you have attained, then

there is not such thing as “not nice.”

But now, why is it not nice for the person who wants to attain to the spiritual ….. I shall explain. The

process of being spiritual is to find the key to open the inner plane. That means: first to find the key of

the mind, then to find the key of the soul. And the key of the mind is consideration, thoughtfulness,

harmlessness, kindness. As soon as you take advantage of another for your benefit, love has gone. In

any way, killing animals or profiting by another person’s disadvantage, or in whatever way one shows

selfishness, that has an effect of closing one’s heart. That is the principle. In order to go far in the

spiritual path, one has to become kinder and kinder and kinder.

Q. If a person thought that it really also was an unkindness on the part of the cook to chop, to

cook onions?

A. But that is very difficult. Our bodies are made by the food, that the forefathers have eaten. If

not, it was not necessary for the soul to live even on the vegetables. But Adam in the Garden

of Eden lived without anything. The day he took he was exiled from there. That is the

meaning of the soul. As long as he was independent of material food, independent, he was

happier. As soon as he took material food it became subject to all illnesses, pains and

troubles.

Q. Why eat? Why did they start this awful thing? Why did they start it?

A. Just that desire to experience everything. There is curiosity. Children can eat poison



sometimes. If they saw there was a poison in the form of food, they would like to experience

it, no matter what becomes afterwards.

Q. Do you mean it symbolically or do you mean really people who only fed themselves by

breath?

A. It is so. So it began, so it began.

Q. Of course it was necessary for the redemption that all that interaction and reaction should

take place?

A. Certainly.

Q. At the time when man was living by breath, animals were eating other animals?

A. No, animals were finer still. All lived happily breathing.

Q. Was it the influence of man?

A. No, the influence of the material age.

Q. What does the snake mean in the story of Genesis, in the story of Eve, that Adam got the

apple from Eve?

A. Snake is the mind.

Q. Murshid, has there really existed such a thing as the golden age?

A. Well, today also the golden age exists. Infancy is golden age. And then comes the silver age:

childhood. When you are young, copper age; when youth has gone, iron age comes. Even

today it is so.

Q. All people going through the same experience?

A. Every individual has all these times. For years infancy is the golden age; childhood is the

silver age; youth is the copper age; and afterwards comes the iron age. And then again the

reverse; then iron age repeated, then copper age, then silver age, then golden age.

Q. Does the whole planetary system?

A. The same thing. The whole human race goes through the same things as …

Q. The universe too?

A. Yes.

Q. Murshid, please may I ask a question: what is the symbology of the cobra?

A. When it is connected with the body, there is a seven-faced cobra; they call it seven-mouthed

cobra. There are the two eyes, two nostrils, mouth, two ears – seven. And the head of the

cobra is this. The Cobra is the spine, which they call Kundalini. The cobra sits in a sort of coil.

Therefore human being is the cobra. That is the real symbol. Cobra means human being. And the

more the senses, the sight, the breath and the hearing, become keen, the more man becomes wise.

Therefore a cobra is the symbol of wisdom. And man is the symbol of wisdom just the same; but man



does not call it man, he calls it cobra. That always makes the cobra of the seven mouths, always, in

the Hindu symbology. And the spine is the body of the cobra.

Q. The cobra vibrating, swaying, rhythmically, does it symbolize the activity of cobra?

A. To move means to change. When you hear music you feel like moving. When you

understand something, when you are joyous, when you are intoxicated by some feeling, then

you move. Any feeling that intoxicates a person, then a person begins to move. And

therefore when man realizes the meaning of breath, and the world becomes a realization

from it, then he moves just like a cobra.

Q. Murshid, I read in “Akibat” these two ideas about Kemal, as the climax and utter extinction of

activity, and balance of Jelal and Jemal. How do they agree, these two aspects?

A. Yes, well, these three can be seen in this way, that every day and at each time one nostril

breathes, never two. But there comes a time when one nostril changes its breath into two (to

the other nostril). Then that is the time of Kemal. When right breathes it is Jelal; when left breathes it is

Jemal. When there is a change between them it is Kemal. Really speaking, Kemal is the change

between one aspect and the other aspect. Then Kemal is death, because it is the changing of one way

of life to another way of life. It is the change between these two ways of life; one way of life to which

one was, is, accustomed, and another way which is unknown to man. One goes from one way to the

next way of life. Then that change which comes we call death. It is really Kemal. So there is a Kemal

in everything. In love there is Kemal, in hate there comes a stoppage, and from the stop you go

downwards. Joy, you laugh, you laugh too much; then the laughing becomes less and less and less.

There is a point to which laughter reaches; then you come down. There is a point to which cry

reaches, and then from that point you come down. So it is with everything, even hate. You can hate a

person for so many years, for so many days, and you do everything possible to take revenge, to hate

and despise. But it has a limit and reaches that point; then from that it becomes less and less. Nothing

therefore can go on steadily more and more and never become less; there comes a point when it

becomes less.

Q. Is the nature Kemal when it is twelve o’clock in the day, and midnight, and full moon?

A. Dawn is a Kemal, morning is a Kemal and evening is a Kemal. And at each time, whenever

there is a Kemal, when you make a prayer that is the best thing you can do. Because it is

negative, it is a negative condition at that time. At that negative time you may not do anything, not

even thinking, planning, working. That is why Moslems have five prayers. And most of each time is a

Kemal time. Early in the morning it is a Kemal, when the sun is in the zenith it is a Kemal, then in the

afternoon there is a between-time, because the sun, and in the evening there is again Kemal, evening

Kemal, sunset I mean. And then at night before midnight there is a Kemal. The Prophet taught at that

time you must pray, because you can do nothing better than praying at that time. It is wonderful to

have found those five points of nature when you should pray, because anything else you do at that

time will lead to nothingness.



Q. Is that also the idea of celebrating New Year’s Eve?

A. Yes, it is a Kemal.

Q. …….

A. I would say that one could wait till he was unhappy. As long as he is happy … first of all in this

world, if he says that he is happy, then let him loose, till there comes a loss, till there comes a

time when he is not happy.

Q. In Catholic monasteries one of the ways is that of greatest resistance. It is one of the lines to

bring them to perfection, that they have to go against their own inclination. What is the Sufi

point of view in this respect? A. Yes, that is a way that I myself would not advise everybody to follow. But maybe out of a

hundred I would advise it to one, and not to the ninety-nine. It is a way that is not the way of

least resistance; on the contrary, it is the way of resistance. It is very hard on a person. For instance, a

philosophical person who finds a delight in finding out philosophical things, through philosophy will find

a way out and go forward. But the person who is philosophical and is told to cut the grass and cut the

wood and tie it in bundles and sell it at the market, to his soul a whip is given . And you know when the

horse gets a whip it goes four times quicker than it would go otherwise. And by this way of resistance,

a whip is given to the spirit and the soul becomes so uncomfortable; it goes much further than a

person will go comfortably. That is not an easy way, but a difficult way of going. That was the way for

Shiva also. Shiva used that principle.

Q. Are there souls who are born for this way?

A. Yes, there are some souls. This is one of the many ways. I myself don’t prefer it, but I myself

have practiced it for years and years and years. I slept on the hard floor for nine years; never

had I slept in bed for nine years, travelling throughout India. That is the same way. Because I would

have been the last person to do it. I was very addicted to comfortable things, very, but did the

opposite. Besides that, when I had taken my career as a musician, it was the hardest thing for me to

do, because those who cannot understand, who cannot appreciate, who are not worth singing before,

before them to be exposed. I would have preferred death to such a situation. And I had to go through it

for years and years. So in the life of some people God compels. You cannot help it. You are thrown

into it and you have to go through it. For me it was just as if the feet which were always accustomed to

velvet shoes were made to walk barefoot on thorns. That is the way I looked at it and went through it

for many, many years. I could have gone away, tried to resist. But I thought, “No, that is my way, it is

meant by God. I am put in this situation, go through it.”

And some teachers put a person also in this way. It is a very hard way. The souls begins to cry. It cries

of pain, and it suffers torture, just like going through crucifixion. But if you have once gone through it,

then you are the master.





27.8.26 The different gestures in the prayers.

Friday

I would like today to explain the meaning of the different gestures we make in our elevation service.

For every movement has a meaning. It must be understood that a prayer is not offered to God in order

to give Him the pleasure, but the prayer is offered to God in order to lift our own soul. Therefore

everything connected with the prayers, concerns with oneself. If the prayer is only in the feeling, it is

not yet expressed; if the prayer is put in the thought, then it has gone one step further in expression.

When the prayer is in words, it has taken two steps in expression. If the prayer is in movements, then

it has taken three steps. But a prayer of movement without thought is of no use, and a prayer without

words is of no use, and a prayer in words without thought is of no use, and a prayer in thought without

feeling is of no use. And that shows that the feeling first, and the thought next, and the word next, and

the movement next, that makes the prayer expressed fully.

When standing for prayers one must fix one’s gaze just in the front of oneself, one must not look here

or there, because it is possible that a person stands for the prayers, but looks right or left; as long as

he does not move his head he does not mind, but the eyes are moving. But the eyes must be fixed

first, because the eyes represent the mind, the eyes must be fixed first on one point. The head must

not be too much lifted up, because God is not only up in Heaven; nor head must be bowed down too

much, because the spine must be erect in order to breathe properly. The movements must not be

done stiffly, it must be made easily. And those who make their body stiff in raising hands and getting

them down, they lose the influence of the effect of prayer, which could enter in every atom of the body.

Raising the hands upwards, that is raising the ideal of God high in one’s own estimation, and taking

hands downwards is saluting that ideal. Folding both hands, one hand in the other, is regard for the

divine law. Bending and putting one’s hands on the knees is the thought of surrender to the will of

God: resignation to God’s will. And raising oneself from that position, is the thought of being raised by

God after the surrender. Putting one’s right hand on the left side is acknowledging that the heart is the

temple of God, and then taking the hand to the right side is acknowledging that: my soul comes from

the divine source. Making the sign of cross means: this is not myself, but this is the temple of God.

Then again saluting to the perfection of God, it is the same salutation as the second gesture, it is the

same gesture again. (Then) raising one’s hand heavenwards (13) means asking for blessing, asking

for help. And joining hands (14) together means asking for the greatest thing there is, not only help,

not only blessing, but communication, unity with God and thinking at the same time that the uniting of

the two hands means uniting oneself with God, making God and oneself as one cup. Besides, the

hands are towards the One. And that means the prayer-offering, what is it? The offering of this cup is

within, it is not held like this (as in 21, so high) but like this (hands lower down, on level with the solar

plexus). That God is within, therefore it is held before oneself. And then afterwards making hands in

this way (22 and 23) it only means the sign of exaltation that is received from the prayers.



By this we are bringing that offering of the prayers held in the cup of these two hands to the temple of

God which is the body. When hands on the knees it is surrender. Just like by showing I am little, I am

small. It is a comparison, it is making oneself small. When the hands are down below, that is: This is a

kind of desire to come towards you, towards God. It is just like a bird would make its wings like that in

order to fly. It is a kind of attempt to go towards God, to approach God, and at the same time it is a

salutation. Joining of palms is: the getting the soul and the body both together. That means it is not

only physical body, but my soul, that my soul and my body are before you. Raising hands to front that

means: I raise God to my highest comprehension.

(N.B. The numbers and words between parenthesis have been added by me, in order to make clear

what gesture Murshid made in showing us how to do it. The numbers correspond with those

accompanying the drawings of the movements of the prayers in the little book: “For Mureeds”. –

signed Sakina)

Q. Should the eyes always be open?

A. Yes, one day I told the children, that the children used to close their eyes at the dinner table

when the prayer is said. I said, “Why is this prayer said? Prayer is said for thanksgiving for

dinner. The best thing is that you should be looking at it.” But that was for the children. The

idea is that our eyes must pray at the same time. Why must they be deprived of praying?

Opening of the eyes is right, because then a person is normally awake. If the eyes are closed

then you do not know if a person is asleep or awake. Just look before one, and yet not bend

the head.”

Q. Murshid, is it not better not to do the movements too strong?

A. Yes, that is quite true. One must do it softly, easily. Not too hard, because that shows the

hardness of the character if one does them hard. One must make them soft.

Q. Can we explain the movements to people when they ask?

A. Yes, you may.

Q. Will you please say once more: That from the heart I surrender …. From the left side heart,

and the right side the side of the soul?

A. The mystics have considered right side the soul and left side the heart, the seat of the heart.

Q. Must we make the cross from left to right, or from right to left?

A. Cross made from left to right shows that right is perfection, left is imperfection: I am going

from limitation to perfection.

Q. Murshid, would you please explain the difference between mantra and prayer?



A. Prayer and mantra are the same. Only some mantras are so short that it is only one word, but

it is like a prayer, one might say it is a sacred word instead of calling it a prayer, but really speaking

both are the same.

Q. If someone of bad reputation wishes to enter the Movement, others are against him coming

in, what to do?

A. I very often am put in a position either to take or not to take a mureed about whom people

have not a good opinion. It depends how much bad name a person has. He may have a little

bad name, or much bad name. Suppose we have ten mureeds only, and if we have one

person of bad name, it is better to avoid it. But if there are twenty mureeds we can consider

it, but if there are hundred mureeds then it is still more possible. If there are thousand

mureeds, then it is still better. The idea is that the little bad name that he has must be

drowned. It can be drowned in a larger number. The larger the number the better it is. We

must not take interest in a person’s good or bad name. Our interest is in his soul, if his soul

receives help, no matter what name he has. It is our duty to do our best. But for the sake of

the organization, in the beginning it is better to keep such things away, because when the

plant is growing, just a little seedling, the fowl can come and cut the plant and it will never

grow. But if it turns into a tree, then let the fowls come, nothing can touch it, it will remain and

grow. So in that way we look at it.

Q. If you wish to make peace and be harmonious with everyone, and a person wishes to criticize

and wants you to join in his opinion?

A. Most wonderful thing is that very often people say, “This person is unintelligent, this person is

quite undesirable, that person is quite stupid, do you not think so?” And before you can think

about it you have to say yes. “This movement or that society, it is simply black magic.” They have at

once expressed their opinion. But as soon as they have said, “Do you not think so?”. The

psychological part is you have to say ‘yes’. They try to automatically make you say yes, before

thinking about it. And therefore for the thoughtful person it is a kind of battle, that he must learn the

warfare in words, that no one may be able to get out of you the word that he wants. I will tell you, once

a person told me a phrase that could bring me to say what he wanted to say. He very seriously said

(about the Message, about the Movement we were speaking) he said, “It is everything, or it is ,,,,,,,,,,,”

How clever! Imagine! And the last (was) what he wanted to get out of me, and I said, “Everything.”

There are very clever people sometimes. Very often they can turn you against your own friend, against

your dear ones, your relations, your teacher; against someone whom you really honor or respect in

life. In one sentence they can make you say something that is against, that impresses on you, and

then you can go on.

Q. If a person is fallen in love and is so far gone that he does not come to attend the lectures of



Murshid?

A. Well, coming to the lectures would bring a balance to his madness. Because Rumi calls, in

his Masnavi, love “sweet madness.”

Q. What would be the best way of giving the message to a community of people who are doing

practices that are undesirable, such as communication with spirits which we have heard Pir-o-

Murshid speak of as undesirable? A. If I were confronted with this position, with this situation, I would first get myself acquainted

with all that they do, with all their interest, and I would not even hesitate to try and appreciate

some of it that they did, and in this way, once I would form friendship, and after that I would make

them tolerant to our lectures. And in our lectures I would never encourage their point of view, nor I

would criticize it. And so I would go on for six months or a year. By that time, if that person were not

prepared, then I would go on still more. Would you believe that I had seven years patience with a

person, a spiritualist. In the end he came to be a mureed. And spiritism is just like gambling: once a

person is into it, it is a great enjoyment a person gets out of it. Even after seven years it was very

difficult for me to take away that idea from him.

Then there is another situation, that sometimes a person comes to you when you are representing the

Message and asks you a question, which can involve you into many subjects in order to explain to

him. And even then he may listen to all of it and then he would say: I do not know. Many times it so

happens. And in such cases what have I done? Wherever I have been and seen some person who is

intellectual and asks a question which could involve me into so many subjects, and only he asks, “Do

you not think so?” I said, “Certainly.” I did not say that I think so, I said, “Certainly.” And perhaps the

same evening I gave a public lecture, and there I gave him the answer. Why? Because perhaps five

hundred people have been benefited by that whole explanation, to prove that argument, instead of one

person who could in the end have shrugged his shoulders and said: I do not know. Now that is the

time to put it, and that is the place to express it. That is the economical way of doing the work, that

when there comes a blow and you put it in the corner, no use. Let there be a boxing match where

hundred persons come, where thousand persons come, where a million people come. Then give the

box, that is of use. When a person comes alone with a principle which you have to discuss for an hour

or so and then in the end he is, perhaps, not ready to understand it, to not trouble much about it; but

give back in the open meeting, with the strength of conviction. Let him hear there. If he has to ask a

question, let him ask there, where there are hundred persons to listen and judge whether you have

answered rightly.



30.8.26 About exercises

Monday

Zikar, Fikar, Kasab and Shagal must not be given to the mureeds belonging to the Study Circle and

Advanced Circle. The Zikar practice must be given with the Inner Circle. That means, when the

seventh initiation is given to a mureed, then begins the Zikar, eighth initiation Fikar, ninth initiation

Kasab. And the practices, which are given afterwards, belong to the tenth initiation.

Very often, when a person receives Zikar or Fikar before time, he does not appreciate it; also he does

not benefit by it. Now that in Vadan there are so many Alankaras which can be very well used for

phrases, these Alankaras may be prescribed to those belonging to the first three initiations. And the

next three initiations of Advanced Circle make mureeds entitled to Wazifas. I do not mean that the

initiators must strictly observe this rule, but it is better to give practice to a mureed in its right time.

When the mureed is prepared for it. If not, the practice is wasted to the mureed.

And now I would like to say something about Kasab as next thing. Kasab can be practiced standing,

lying and sitting cross-legs. Standing Kasab is done in the open air, in warm weather, and on the bank

of a river or on the seashore. And while doing this Kasab, standing Kasab, one may draw breath from

the sun. In other words, to inhale sun-currents. And a care must be taken that one does not expose

one’s eyes to the currents of the sun. There are certain practices to be done with the sun. But they

must not be prescribed to the mureeds because there is always a chance that a mureed will abuse

them. And the result will be grave with his eyes.

The sitting practice of Kasab may be done in the house. And in the case of tiredness and illness, one

can do this Kasab lying. But I do not prefer practices being done lying. There are many who are too

tired to do their exercises sitting. Only in that case lying down is allowed.

And now about the rhythm of inhaling and exhaling in Kasab. It must not be restricted to four or to five

or to six or to seven. Because the rhythm of breath must be taught with Fikar. But with Kasab the

initiator must know to what degree the breath of a person can be held, can be drawn deep. And by

calculating that rhythm then he must give him the practice of the deepest breath. Or if the initiator can

trust the mureed who is given this practice, in that case he may trust the mureed to take the deepest

breath he can in practicing Kasab. I have always emphasized in teaching Fikar that in Fikar breathing

must be natural. By the very fact that a person is practicing Fikar, that he is conscious of breath, he

will take it a little longer than naturally it is. And therefore Fikar need not be done with deep breathing.

But Kasab must be done with deep breathing. The breath of Kasab need not be natural. The breath of

Kasab must be deepest that one can. Because it is the Kasab that prepares one for still higher

practices of breathing.



And now about the concentration in Kasab.

It is better if one gives in Kasab a different concentration to that of the Fikar. In the Fikar there are

earthly objects, including the image of Murshid. But in Kasab heavenly objects may be concentrated

upon. And that is the color of the rainbow. That is to begin with. One of these colors. And that is to

develop insight into the ethereal spheres. But then objects such as five-pointed star, the sun, the

moon, the crescent, objects belonging to Heavens may be given to be concentrated upon with the

practice of Kasab. Very often a mureed is not capable of doing Kasab and at the same time

concentration upon a certain object. In that case it is not necessary that a mureed must hold before

himself a certain object. Because the very fact that one is practicing Kasab makes it beneficial for him

to develop insight and all the psychic and occult powers, as well as inspiration. Very often a word, a

sacred word as used in Wazifas or in Fikar can be practiced with Kasab also. But even this is not

necessary. Kasab may be practiced without a word and without an object of concentration, and it can

be beneficial. But by adding to it a sacred word or an object of concentration, one has a greater

benefit. But in case one is not capable of doing it, it is just as well to avoid both keeping the practice of

Kasab pure.

Q. How long must it be, Kasab, and how many times?

A. In the case of a beginner, three times.

Q. How to take the breath?

A. The depth of the breath of each person is different. Suppose I keep the breath by counting

twenty-five or fifty; but if another person keeps the breath till he has counted fifty, perhaps he

will become suffocated.

Q. Has one to look at the sun while doing the practice of Kasab?

A. No, looking at the sun must be only that Kasab when one is standing, looking in the direction

of the sun. Looking in the sun is not good for the eyes.

Q. You often give in Wazifa the words Ya Shafi Ya Kafi.

A. Yes, in the case when a person is not well; only then. To help him in his illness.

Q. Inhaling through the right and exhaling through the left nostril?

A. With right or left, it does not matter. With inhaling Ya Shafi, with exhaling Ya Kafi.

Q. How has one to divide the two words, Ya Shafi Ya Kafi while doing the practice of Kasab,

which consists of three parts?

A. The idea is that while inhaling: Ya Shafi, and while holding, you must retain the same thought;

Shafi. And while exhaling the thought: Ya Kafi.

Q. When can one prescribe Wazifa?



A Wazifa is to be given to the one who is in the fourth initiation.

Q. How is it discovered that one is apt to have the fourth initiation?

A. That is to be discovered by the Murshida of the country. The esoteric leader must

discover. But I should think that every year one initiation can be given, as a general rule. Second year,

second initiation, third year third initiation. But then there are rare cases, exceptional cases.

They are above the rule.

Q. Till now I have not given more initiations to those whom you have initiated.

A. I think it is better now to continue to give initiations, even if I have begun; it does not matter.

You will give the sixth initiation. Then I shall take over myself.

Q. (An experience was told about hearing Murshid’ voice)

A. Well, this case comes very often before me. And sometimes it has troublesome phenomena.

Once a person came straight to my house telling me that, “I have heard your voice,” that “You

had called me, so I have come.” – And I was very surprised. I was in a terrible state. If I said

to this person that, “You have not heard my voice,” that would lead that person to absolutely

lose faith in me and in herself. Another time I was in some other country and this person

came and surprised me. And I said, “How strange.” It frightened me. Third time I was in a

country and this person again appeared on the surface, on the horizon. And I became simply

spell-bound with the surprise, with amazement. I asked this person, “How you happen to

come here?” She said, “Murshid, I have heard your call.” I asked, “Did you receive a

telegram? Please never come again till you have received the telegram.”

Now as to hear the voice, here Miss van Braam has told us just now. Her heart and soul were with us.

There was the link of initiation. When there was the talk of the Temple, she dreamed it. That is the

voice of the heart that tells what is going on. She was with us. The life proves that she was with us.

And the greatest sign of the link with Murshid is to feel his pleasure and displeasure. That is the best

proof of the link. To be able to look at life from His point of view. To understand the meaning of His

ways and words. That is the link. We are thankful to live in this time when telegrams are so less costly

and there is air-mail and there is express-correspondence, and there are telephones. It is not

necessary to communicate in this way. But now you might think from the story of Murshid’s biography

that I used to reach in my Murshid’s presence whenever my Murshid thought of me. But neither there

was a desire on the part of Murshid to call me by thought. He did not call for me. Only it was the effect,

9it was the influence of his wish of seeing me. His fancy, his pleasure, reflecting upon me, no matter

where I was, no matter at what distance, I felt a drawing, and I went. But when I went, I did not say,

“Murshid, did you call me, did you send for me?” Never. It is the servants in the house, the son



perhaps who was standing outside, and he said, “Murshid was remembering you this morning.” And I

had felt it. That is the link. To be psychic and at the same time to be normal.

And now the idea of feeling a connection with Murshid and a disconnected feeling. If it came on the

part of Murshid, I would not call myself Murshid. I would be the first person to deny this claim. No

matter how undesirable my mureed be, no matter how disobedient, no matter how ill-mannered, no

matter how opposed, I would never turn my back. I could not call myself a Murshid if I would. And

therefore on my part there can never be any attempt to cut the connection. And if the connection can

be separated, it is on the part of the mureed himself. Automatically he has done, and he does not

know it. His own thoughts, his own feelings, his own doings, his own attitude has perhaps made it out

of focus. It is only getting out of focus. When a person is before the camera and removes his chair a

little away from it, then he is not in focus. That is the only disconnection there is. Therefore you can

always say with faith and conviction, “never think that Murshid will withdraw his blessing, his feelings,

his sympathy. It never shall be, one can be sure.”

And the day when the mureed will come in focus, he will find the same thing there as it has always

been, perhaps a little more. Because love is growing; love that does not grow is dead love. Yes, I

would, if I thought that instead of sugar, salt is better for the mureed, I would give a spoon of salt. And

if I thought that instead of a hot cup, I should give a cold cup, a cup of cold drink, there would be some

meaning in it. And if the mureed has faith, he will understand that, “Murshid thinks that by giving the

cold drink just now, in this there is my benefit.” If he does not understand he will wonder, “Why?

Murshid always gave me a hot cup; why does he give me a cold drink?” But he must have faith; never

to think. That if Murshid gives a cold drink, Murshid has his reason for it. It is not that Murshid’s

sympathy is lacking. It is that he needs at that time a cold drink. But Murshid will not say when giving

the cold drink, “I think that it is proper for you, it is best for you.” If I had to say everything in words,

then where is the subtlety of method? The method of Murshid is most subtle and fine and deep. It

cannot be put in gross words of explanation. Even if Murshid appears to be displeased it is never in

truth. Really, Murshid is not displeased. Maybe it might appear or perhaps a mureed’s imagination has

made it so. Very often it is so. One day, after the silence-class, a mureed came out and said, “Murshid

has looked at me harshly.” Imagine! Maybe that in the silence there was a Jelal power, or one day

perhaps there is a Jemal power, or one day there is a Kemal power; one day an influence, a ray of a

certain plane. It is not necessary that for that particular person that I had a displeasure or anger. And

especially, could I have been angry in this time? That is the last time and show my displeasure there.

That is the unripened thought. That is the time of benediction, of blessing. Anger cannot reach there. It

has no strength, it has no power to approach near.

So they imagine; it is their own imagination, their own feelings come up and trouble them. They only

have to make some excuses, to name it such and such. But it is their own.

Besides that, how much a mureed may be displeased with Murshid – yes, it is possible, very often:

You must not think that the parents are displeased with the children, but the children very often are



displeased with the parents. How much they may be displeased, but I can never imagine for one

moment that their devotion to me has become less. They can come to me, and talk to me, and behave

in a way that they should not have behaved, in all conditions I never allowed myself to think for one

moment that their devotion, their love, their sympathy is any less. I think it is their way; they are

playing their own instrument. I let them play their music; that is all. It is their music for that time. And

therefore is never a possibility on the part of Murshid to remove a mureed from the current he

receives.

Unless he himself turns his back to it.

01.9.26 The difference between Clairvoyance and Mediumistic Knowledge.

Wednesday

Today I would like to speak about the difference between clairvoyance and mediumistic knowledge.

Clairvoyance is seeing clearly; in other words, clear vision. And this vision comes by two different

ways. With individuals this vision comes by the passivity of mind, when a person is passive, whatever

thought is in the mind of another reflects in his mind. If you can concentrate will, and if you can focus

your mind, it is better.

And with situations in the same way. A certain situation which is at a distance is reflected in the mind

of a passive person, if he is ethereal enough. And in the same way the knowledge of past and of

present and of future is reflected. And that is called clairvoyance.

Clairaudience is not necessarily the hearing of a word or of a sound, but the hearing of the inner voice,

the voice of intuition, of inspiration, of revelation, also the voice of the mind of another.

The difference between clairvoyance and clairaudience is that clairvoyance manifests in the form of a

vision that one can see with the inner eye; clairaudience manifests as a word, a voice, that one can

hear with the inner ear. The mediumistic knowledge therefore differs from it. Mediumistic knowledge

comes either by a continual obsession or a momentary obsession, by a voluntary obsession or by an

involuntary obsession. Those who make a profession of a medium voluntarily give their spirit to the

knowledge that comes from the spirit. And those who do not voluntarily give it, then they are called

obsessed. It is not that they have voluntarily given themselves to the obsession, but that they are

obsessed by a certain spirit.

It is easy for a mediumistic person to have clairvoyance also, because the mediumistic person who

has the same tendency of allowing himself to be obsessed by the spirit can allow the thought of

another to obsess him. And in that way he can also know the thought of another. Only the difference

between the clairvoyant and the medium is that the clairvoyant need not necessarily be a medium,

and a medium need not be clairvoyant.



Q. Murshid, is it possible that it can be combined: clairvoyant and mediumistic knowledge?

A. Yes, it is possible, because they are both negative tendencies. It is after being negative that

one is mediumistic. And it is by negative condition of mind that one is clairvoyant. But I

should consider clairvoyant as a natural effect of spiritual progress, and mediumistic is a kind

of temperament. It can be a kind of unbalanced condition.

Q. Cannot it be developed, medium?

A. Yes, it can. But one must have something in him first. But I think every fine person has a little

spark of mediumistic tendency, every fine person. But if he develops that tendency, then he

can go astray.

Q. Murshid, does it now show sometimes when people are writing handwriting, as if something

took hold of them and they say things they don’t know at all, which are true?

A. Yes, that also comes from clairvoyant tendency. That can be also mediumistic tendency. If

there is a mediumistic person, then he can also do this.

Q. Murshid, is it possible that somebody who is not spiritually evolved is clairvoyant, or is that

always the case that he is then mediumistic?

A. It is mostly the case that he is mediumistic. But rarely it is possible that a person is

clairvoyant and not spiritually evolved, because it is a temperament.

Q. People who are card-players or take a cup of coffee, do they read thought?

A. No, that is clairvoyance also. It is an elementary clairvoyance, because they take the help of

something outside. Therefore it is not complete clairvoyance; it is elementary. But at the

same time from something outside one cannot see unless one was clairvoyant. For instance, from the

card or tea cup one cannot see properly if one were not a little clairvoyant.

Q. Is it a question of concentration?

A. Not only the power of concentration, but a kind of passiveness of mind, by a kind of

concentration naturally by passiveness of mind one partakes that condition; or that the

conditions are reflected upon one and the mind of a person is reflected and that it becomes

clear to a person.

Q. Murshid, there are certain methods of laying cards that a person takes out of cards. For

instance, he finds a king and says it means a good luck. But it finds it in the cards, it does not

reflect in his mind, but he finds it in the cards. He has a certain system: this means this, and

that means that. A. But that is another question. That has nothing to do with clairvoyance. This is a question of

life, that as I have said, life is self-revealing and life is the answer to every question. Only, the



person is accustomed to see it in cards. But if people have accustomed to see from everything in the

whole life, you can stand on the staircase and look at the street and see every person going out,

getting in, standing, see what he is doing, you can get the answer to your question. You can open a

book, a spiritual or a religious book, and you can get the answer to your question; look at the sky, see

birds coming from this side or that side, clouds, clear, sun – it has nothing to do with your question, but

it has a relation just the same.

Q. Is nature symbolized to show to man …

A. Absolutely. It means that the whole universe is working, one thing is working in connection

with another. It is one mechanism, one perfect mechanism, that is working with another

perfectly. Therefore every question has its answer in life, whatever side you look. Look at the earth, at

the space, at the sky, to the right, to the left, before or behind, whatever way you see, that is the

answer to your question. Because the variety of names and forms makes things so many forms. In

reality there is one Being, one Spirit, one Life. And therefore it is all working together.

It is like this: if a person has fever, then his pulse is going badly, the beats of the head are going badly,

the heart is going badly. Every sign of the body will say that he has fever. The tongue says it, the lips

say it, the appetite says it. Every condition in him says that he is not in order. The same thing with the

Absolute. The Absolute is going on with one rhythm, in one way. Each person is a particle of the

Absolute. Everything that is going on has its effect on every being. The wretched beggar crying in

China has its effect upon the Czar of Russia, who is perhaps enjoying himself in his palace. He does

not know it, he may be enjoying, there may be a ball going on, or a dinner; and the wretched beggar in

China may be crying. The effect of it is just the same. Therefore the effect of every being is upon all. If

we understood that, we would not have so many troubles, we would be more lenient towards one

another, consider one’s interest as others’ interest. That is the reason why a person can get the

answer to his question from anything or anybody he sees.

Q. If everything is a perfect mechanism, how then is it possible that somebody could be out of

tune with the will of God?

A. The idea is this, that as an individual he becomes two parts: as an individual and as the will of

God as well. Every person’s will is the will of God. But at the same time there is the perfect

will and the imperfect will. The imperfect will is working beneath the perfect will; in the

beginning and in the end it is the perfect will. In the end the perfect will will govern, but in the

middle the imperfect will takes its chance also to change things. That is why Christ taught in

the prayer, “Thy will be done on earth as in heaven.” This prayer is a suggestion that every

man must say, “Thy perfect will will govern my imperfect will, and so we will work

harmoniously.”

Q. Murshid, are the stars undeveloped planets? Do you mean in the same manifestation all

these millions of stars will grow to planets?



A. If they lived till they get developed; just like a child lived till he can mature, till he is grown up.

Q. Is that sure?

A. Is one sure of the life? So one is not sure of the stars. If the stars lived for so man years, then

they will turn into a world, they will turn into planets. Therefore this idea of the astrologers that

there are stars and planets, they separate. In reality star is the same as a planet; star is a minor

planet. When mature it will be a complete planet.

Q. It will create in itself a world, a human world? It goes rotating round the sun from that

moment?

A. Yes, that is so.

Q. What is the meaning of the falling of the stars, its influence upon the whole universe?

A. Well, it is exactly just like death of a person, a person’s death, exactly the same.

Q. We often see it in August, in the month of August.

A. Maybe that in the month of August you may see because the sky is more clear. It does not

depend upon any particular month.

Q. What must be our attitude towards persons who are obsessed?

A. It is difficult for everyone to know or to distinguish between an obsessed person, a mad

person, an epileptic person, or what they call a witch or wizard and what they call a vampire.

It is very difficult for every person to distinguish between these persons. And it is possible that

sometimes you will answer them, and by the time you have answered them they have done all the

harm they could do you. Because what they can do is they ask you something, and while they ask you

they have finished their work; all the damage that was to be done is done just merely by asking. And

therefore in the East every child is told that: remember, if there is a knock at the door, or if somebody,

a stranger, comes and speaks to you, first see if it is a queer person. It is better to avoid it.

And now I will tell you a story which will interest you still more. A friend of mine who was very obstinate

by nature and mocking at all such ideas which seemed queer, for the thought, “Well, what is it? It is all

humbug!”; in this way he always thought about it. One day he was coming in his dogcart with a friend

sitting at his side and a servant at the back of the cart. And he was coming from a place like the fields

which are there (note: which were near the end of the Rue de la Tuilerie when these words were

spoken) just before midnight. There was a queer woman walking in the street. She began to call,

“Please, please, please, take me in the cart.” So this kind man said, “Well, stop and take her in the

cart.” So they made her sit with the servant who was sitting on the other side of the cart. And as she

sat, every moment her face began to shine, her teeth began to shine and her eyes began to shoot out

fire. And this servant became very frightened. This servant said, “O master, master, what have you

done? I am most afraid! Who is this woman? Who is this woman? And what is coming out of her



eyes?” Then he looked back. As soon as he looked back his nerves became shattered. And the lips of

the man who sat near him became closed. He did not speak. He became so frightened to look at her.

They lost their strength to drive the cart, because she had the power of robbing the energy, all the

magnetism, that these people, all three person, three men in the carriage, were all so frightened they

were near to death. And with a great difficulty this man who had the carriage and who always said “All

this is humbug,” this man after all tried to run away from there with his cart. And even the horse was

trembling, because the horse feels more than human beings.

So please remember that it is not always a great kindness to kindly speak with everybody you meet in

the street.

Q. I know an artist who has great inspiration, at the same time he does things that are

not moral. Sometimes he is a great person, sometimes quite the opposite.

A. I should think that a person cannot be a most wonderful artist unless he was a little

unbalanced. And if he is unbalanced, naturally one side is developed and the other side

remains undeveloped. And perhaps it is the unbalancedness that makes him a good artist.

Nevertheless, it is not something to promote or to encourage and appreciate.

I always say, appreciate the art and not the artist, very often. But at the same time if the artist with his

gift could have a higher moral conception, he could be a most wonderful artist, ten times greater,

hundred times greater sometimes. But then there is to be seen what the moral conception is.

Sometimes a person has much higher conception of moral and yet his moral is not understood.

Nevertheless, the higher the moral the more difficult to carry it out. Maybe the world will not estimate

the moral much. And yet you can test it, you can recognize it as a moral because it is high, if you had

patience, if you had keen insight into human nature.

Q. If somebody is going and making concentrations, they can see a person or things in another

town. What is it, clairvoyant or mediumistic?

A. Yes, it is clairvoyance. But it is so near the mediumistic knowledge. Mediumistic knowledge

and clairvoyance are very difficult to differentiate. It can only be differentiated by seeing the

depth of a person. The action of both is so close. It is just like typing and printing.

Q. Does a magician make use of clairvoyance or of mediumistic knowledge?

A. He acts by another thing: it is a power over elementals. It is another art, it is quite different

work. It is not clairvoyance nor mediumistic.

Q. …. A person very interested in Sufism, but she will not hear speaking of God.

A. I would take the other way, not to talk about God, only talk with her about principles. One day

a person came to me and said, “I have heard the whole series of your lectures, and it all went



through me, everything you said. It just fits in with my ideas and I would like to be your mureed, on one

condition, that you will not teach me God.” Well, I accepted him to be my mureed, and instead of just

saying, “God bless you,” when going, I said, “Bless you.” Instead of taking the name of God or using

the word God in initiation ceremony, I omitted it. I accepted him just the same. And what happened?

This person has for many years been busy translating my literature, studying it, digesting it, thinking

about it. I am waiting. Perhaps in ten years time he will come out of his intolerance against this idea. It

is not that he cannot understand it; it is only obstinacy. He will not believe in it because he once

mocked at that idea. Even if he will become wise he will not believe in it, because he once mocked. It

hurts his pride. I have taken out that idea. Let him study. That is the way we can take this person.

Q. Is it ever good to punish a child?

A. I would repeat the same as I said this afternoon. Never punish a child when he is in a rage,

when a child is angry, because that punishment is wasted. The child will never learn from that

punishment when it is given when he is angry. Avoid that. Calm him down by love, and by

sympathy, and then when he is calm, then bring his fault before him, explain to him. First

appreciate his good points. Then if even it does not do, the last resource is good punishment.

But as a last resource, never when he is angry. Boys especially. It is better not to punish a

girl, because a girl can be managed. But a boy sometimes requires ear-tuning.

Q. If an obsessed person asks you, “Is it true? They say that I am obsessed,.” Must I tell him

that it is so or not?

A. I would say, “I don’t know, I don’t think so.”

Q. If one realizes one is obsessed, is one not very near to being cured?

A. Who knows! I will tell you my experience one day. A woman came to me. She was brought to

me as having a very bad obsession and asked if it could be cured. So I said, “Instantly it will

be cured. Your friend must go out, and you stay here.” And then she sat there and afterwards her

ghost came on her. She really was obsessed. She jumped and stamped on the ground and all the

devil-dance that could come manifested on the horizon. And I saw that whole devil-dance and that

spirit was told to go away. As soon as the spirit departed from her, next day the woman became very

unhappy. The third day she came to me crying, in tears, that, “Please send back to me my spirit,

because I don’t want to be without him. I am most unhappy!” I said, ‘Yes, you will have him, you will

have your spirit. If you love that obsession to remain in you, then it will remain.”

So there are some who love obsession. It becomes their second nature. They are so delighted with it,

they don’t want to part with it. Here in Paris the same thing happened. First a woman came who had

many influences of obsession. And I said, “yes, do you want them to go away, do you want to get rid

of them?” And first she said yes. But then she said, “But they are very interesting; they are my great

friends. I don’t want them to go away. My life will become very monotonous.” I said, “All right, keep

them.”



03.9.26 The Sufi manner of sympathy

Friday

I would like to say something about the Sufi manner of sympathy: that it is the first and most essential

thing for the Sufi to have (a) sympathetic attitude towards all. And by towards all I mean towards those

who expect sympathy, towards those who will be helped by sympathy, and towards those who do not

yet deserve, and yet it is better to give them sympathy.

But now there is another question. In what way you must show your sympathy. You must be ready to

show your sympathy where it is welcome, and you must keep your sympathy for the time in some

cases when it will be welcome for that time. And you may give your sympathy without making the

other person know of it. The real sympathy does not need any manifestation, all the expression of

words and action, all these expressions must follow sympathy, but sympathy must not follow them.

The greatest sympathy that one can show to anyone is the regard for that person’s pleasure and

displeasure. And that is the first lesson, and most often people try to learn the last lesson and omit the

first lesson. Everybody is anxious to become perfect at once. As soon as they feel sympathy in their

heart they want it to be complete. But in reality sympathy must grow slowly, it must be reared, it must

be watered. Where there is a deep sympathy it is not even so much profitable to another person as it

is to oneself. And that sympathy which is for reciprocity is worthless from a higher point of view.

And now I would like to know how you will show your sympathy to the workers of the Movement, to the

mureeds and to Murshid. You will show your sympathy to Murshid by having a full regard for his

pleasure and displeasure, covered or veiled in his silence. And how will you show your sympathy to

the workers of the Movement? By giving them due respect, knowing that they are the helpers of

Murshid. Suppose a mureed has a great regard for Murshid an no regard for those who are his

collaborators, who are authorized for a certain office, to hold a certain office. It is like loving Murshid,

but shaking his whole house by moving the pillars of the house. And if the Murshid is disturbed by it a

mureed will say, ‘I have every devotion to Murshid, I do not wish to do the least little harm to Murshid.

But this pillar is ugly, I want to shake it off, it does not look good in the house. This window is out of

place here.” But there also a regard for Murshid is necessary. It is Murshid’s house, he has put those

pillars, he has made these walls, he has put those doors there and he knows who is the architect of

his own building.

And then the way how one can help one’s co-mureeds is that those who stand in need of some

service, some help, some advice, some assistance, you give them. And those who do not stand in

need of anything, leave them alone. But if a person is standing in the garden of the Summerschool

and you, out of your sympathy, thought that he must be brought tea, maybe that this person will

become ill by drinking tea. He is not standing there looking at a tree to get tea. He is standing there in



his own thought, perhaps he is meditating. By your giving his tea you are not doing any good.

Therefore kindness must be bestowed in the place where there is need. Suppose a person is sitting

under the shade of a tree, perhaps meditating upon a word that he has heard from Murshid, and if you

go near him and say, “I want to know what is the trouble with you. What is the matter with you, I feel

sympathy with you, I would like to know. What is the matter with you, I feel sympathy with you, I would

like to know, I want to help you.” He will say, “If you feel sympathy towards me, please leave me

alone. I meditated, I was quite happy.” Therefore sympathy must have sense with it. Wherever

sympathy is needed there it must be given, and there is the value of it.

And now the question in what form it may be given. Now suppose if a mureed says that, “Tell me all

that you have heard in the Collective Interview, I would like to hear it from you.” And you feel very kind

and sympathetic and you pour out all you have heard here. That would not be nice, because what has

been spoken here, taught here, it is your trust. You may not speak about it to another person. But you

may profit by it yourself, and then inspirational what comes to you that must help your friend; in that

way sympathy may be given. Or perhaps you thought that a Gatha or a Gatheka, or some papers you

have, another co-mureed is very sad because he has not got it. “Will you please copy it?” It is a

sympathy, but at the same time it goes against it. Besides there is a mureed who is saying I do not like

that person, I do not like the other person, the other person has done this, has done that harm; you

are so sympathetic to say: you are quite right, I quite believe, I have the same opinion also. That

sympathy will not do any good.

Sympathy must be to console a person in his disturbance, when his mind is disturbed, when he is

restless, when he is sad, when he is sorry. When he has some pain or when he stands in need of your

help in any way, that you will be ready to give him.

And now in conclusion to what I have said I wish to add one word more, and that is: you cannot show

a greater and better sympathy than being considerate to every person you meet.

Q. Do you not think it a good form of giving sympathy to let the person not feel that the person is

in want of it?

A. In what way can you? I mean sometimes it is possible to help without him noticing that he is

helped; that is the best help, that always is the most valuable help.

Once a mureed came and he said that: my friend, I would like so much that my friend would join, it

would be the greatest pleasure to me if he joined the Sufi Order. But when I told my friend will join the

Sufi Order he said: I am happy as I am. I said: when your friend is happy as he is you do not need to

put something else on him to make him unhappy. Wait till he is unhappy, then you bring him to the

Sufi Movement. Therefore, as I say, that one must not try to help the person who thinks that he does

not need the help. But if without knowing, if one can help in any way without his knowing, that is the

best way.



Q. Often we do not know where the need is. Is it permitted to get into an ordinary conversation

with somebody, and try to make him come out with his need? Most people do not show their

need.

A. Of course, it is a work of great consideration. But if one thought that by having a little talk, if

one can draw someone’s sympathy, or once can sympathize with one, that is a good thing.

Q. Every person has something or the other.

A. Yes, but one must first feel one’s own powers to what extent one can help another. If one first

felt that I can help that person in some way, then it is all right.

Q. If one’s intuition says another thing, something that is not the same that one of your

Representatives says?

A. Yes, well very often our elder ones, uncle, or aunt, or father or mother say something which

does not agree with our intuition. It is the same rule. If we say, well but I do not believe in it,

well I am quite against it, well I will fight it, well all these expressions are not becoming to a Sufi. But if

one says well, if my intuition says something different I will wait till I will intuitively feel what this

Representative says. Till then I will keep quiet about it. that is al the younger one’s quality. Instead of

taking the position of the elder one it is just as well taking the position of the younger one. One does

not become less by acting as young, one becomes deeper.

Q. Must not one in the first case obey one’s own intuitions?

A. Well, it depends. Sometimes one feels that it is an intuition but it is nothing but a kind of

impression. One day perhaps more than twenty persons, twenty of my mureeds, each one

thought that it was their intuition, it was their inner voice. But it was nothing but a deep

psychological impression of one person. And all twenty took fire. They all thought very

sincerely that it was their intuition.

Q. How can you tell the difference between psychological impression and intuition?

A. The difference is that the more self confidence you have, the more intuitive faculty develops.

Q. Is it not in such a case if it has to do with the work of the country one must always follow the

Representative, even if it is against one's own individual development?

A. That is the idea. One must judge in that case to what extent I can follow my intuition and to

what extent I can regard the one who is at the head of the Movement. For instance, if every

captain thought, whatever my intuition says I will do, I must not follow the general, I will not listen to

the voice of the general. One captain will go to the North, another to the South, another to the East,

and another to the West. And the general will remain alone, and the battle will not be fought, if every

captain follows his intuition. When it comes to organized effort in furthering the Cause there is a

certain effort to be made … response to those … reign over a certain group. By that we learn

discipline, self-discipline. And sometimes it may be that our elder one is not in the right. But by our



patience we can get him in the right much better than being impatient about it. I have very often seen

that by patience you can do much better.

Q. Do you not think that it is very often in the case of helping others the best to let it go as it

goes, that it is guided from above? In some small signs one sees how it has to be worked out.

That it is sent to us. A. Yes, intuitively. Yes, intuition comes from above. As long as you call it intuition. But if you will

call it another name you may.

Q. Circumstances?

A. There is an inner guidance, there is no doubt about it.

Q. If someone came to your house, and injured you, and went away, and sent you a present;

what would you do?

A. I would answer you from the Gayan, “Take all that is given to you, and give all that you have.”

Q. …

A. I would continue to answer it in the same way. I have answered sixteen years ago the same

question of reincarnation. Three years ago she asked me the same question. Now I went

there, she again asked me the same question. If I went to America twenty times I shall answer her the

same question, because she likes to ask, and I like to answer.

Q. I am an actor and priest and the same time. People cannot understand; how to answer them?

A. I would answer that this is the Message of the present time. And therefore as the clergy and

the priests kept themselves aloof from all the different activities of the world, that was for that

time. For this time it is meant that whatever be your profession or work, in spite of that you

have the religious duty, that people may not become exclusively priests of this special

Message. But people whose wishes or life compels them to do other work, they may do other

work, and at the same time be the priest. As soon as you give them this, they will find out

that they are three hundred years backward.

Q. What is the greatest illness of this present time?

A. I think the greatest illness is the thought of self. The person who is concerned with his own

self, is more ill than any ill person in the world. And at the same time you cannot make him

believe that he is ill, because he thinks that everyone else is ill, but he himself. Because he considers

himself to be practical, someone who has common sense, who is concerned with his won interest,

with his own self. And if he sees another person who forgets his interest and who is devoted to

another person, who sacrifices himself to another person, for him it seems that the other person is

mad, he has lost his head. Because another person must be as self-centered as this person is, in

order for him to recognize him as a man of common sense. Therefore not only many, but most of the



people are in that condition of spirit today. It is a kind of general attitude, and it is the curse of this age,

this iron age, that everyone thinks to be a man of common sense, or to be clever, or to be wise, that

means to guard one’s own interest. But to sacrifice for another, to have sympathy for another, to give

up one’s pleasure and comfort and convenience and interest for another, he thinks that is simply mad,

it is mad to be so. And therefore if one finds the remedy for this it seems that one finds the remedy for

the whole world. And as it is said in Gayan that self-pity is the worst poverty, there is no greater

poverty than when a person says: My poor self, how terrible, in what a terrible situation I am. Then a

person thinks that he is the poorest man in the world. How much richness he has, and how much

comfort, nothing counts as soon as he thinks: my poor self. He is gone to the depth of the earth. But

the whole Sufi teaching, the whole esoteric teaching, wherefore is it given? To remove the false self in

order to bring the real self.



06.9.26 The uniformity of instruction papers.

Monday

Now today I would like to speak on a practical point: the need of a great necessity of the uniformity of

instruction papers.

When in Geneva I am going to ask the Headquarters to issue an official form: that on the model of that

form the instruction papers may be printed or typed. And that all the instructors who will give

instructions to those initiated will give it on that paper. Besides, it seems that in all different centers of

the Sufi Movement it is not sufficiently distinguished which initiation a person has. Maybe that partly in

the past I have not written in the instruction papers that which ought to have been written. Partly

maybe that many initiators and instructors have not thought about it. But now the time has come that

we have a large number of mureeds, and it is getting larger; and it will become difficult to divide them

in groups if we did not give distinctly the marks of the mureed’s grades. Therefore, will Shaikhs and

Khalifs from now on make a point that every paper or instruction they give, that they will distinctly mark

on it the initiation that the person has received. And at the same time every Murshida will make a mark

on the initiation that is given in her hands. Beside, those initiations which are in my power, I will make

them, so that every instruction paper is marked with the grade of the persons. It will also enable us to

know to which group of the initiated a certain person must come. Because now there will be readings

of the three different series of Gathas and of Gitas, and also of Sangathas. And every mureed who is

distinguished by his instruction papers to which series of Gathas or to which group he belongs.

Now, since the number of mureeds is becoming larger, it is also becoming necessary that the Pir-o-

Murshid may only give the initiations, also instructions, from the degree of Talib. All other initiations

may be given by Shaikh within their reach, and Murshidas within their power. But at the same time,

suppose in a country where there is a Murshida and if there is a ceremonial initiation, then Murshida

will take a part in it, also the Shaikh or Shaikha, or Khalif of that country. But if the Khalif is in a certain

province of that country, then the Khalif can give the three initiations in his charge, and then for the

fourth initiation he will wait for the Murshida. And the Murshida, when she visits that part, will give

fourth, fifth, sixth. When it comes to the initiations after that, then Murshida will bring the person, or

she will wait when the Pir-o-Murshid comes to give it. So in this way the work will be divided, and

everyone will do that which is in his power to do.

Q. It is sometimes very difficult to know if one should give someone a high initiation, yes or no, if

the time is there.

A. But the power is given with the trust that the Shaikh will choose it. The power is given with

that trust, that the Shaikh will choose from his own discrimination which initiation to give.

What I would do is to give a person a normal progress, each year one initiation, at least for

the first three initiations. Then I would think otherwise. First one after the other at a year’s



distance. For a slow person I would make it two years, for a person who is slower still, three

years. That is nine years’ time he finishes the first initiations. We must not hurry a person.

Because by hurrying we spoil the journey. No one will be detained if we give slow initiations.

If a person is progressing he will progress just the same. But it will be a good thing that a

person is not given too soon. If he is given too late, it does not matter; his progress will not

be hindered. But a person will be much hindered if initiation is given too soon.

Q. Where can we find the exact classifications? In a book?

A. Esoteric work cannot be written in words. It must be done more individually. You see, the

initiation of the Shaikh, that distinction, that trust, is for the Shaikh, for himself to find out

whether the person has reached that stage or not. And if we make cut and dry rules about it,

on that standard we cannot go. Esotericism must not be put in written standards. Yes,

besides that, it is not always advisable, nor is it necessary, that the one who is given different

initiations knows to much about it. Because if he knows, he will be so anxious. If he is in the

first initiation he will be so anxious to get to the last initiation that he will always, some of

them, will be always revolting against it, and very often very uneasy about it. Besides, as a

respect to human nature, it is better that this subject is not brought too much to the thought of

the mureed.

Q. In the beginning, would you say, if it is better for the mureed not to know that there is more

than one initiation at all?

A. Yes, it is not necessary to be told. Because maybe they will have to wait ten years before the

second initiation is given. Why ten must that mureed know for ten years and be excited about

it? Terrible! Besides, the initiator must feel his responsibility, that a person who is not up to it may not

be given. Because the initiator’s whole responsibility is to Pir-o-Murshid and to God for the initiation he

gives to another. Therefore it is a great responsibility and a most sacred task.

Q. May I ask what these initiations are: what is the special significance? (Question by Shaikha

Gregory from Detroit, who had not yet worked in the Movement.)

A. Yes, there are four sections, divided into three initiations. The first section is called the Study

Circle. And therefore the first initiation is merely an admission into the Order.

Q. Is he not a mureed?

A. No. As we call citizen everybody who is in the city, so everybody in the Sufi Order, every

member, we call Sufi. But Sufi is ninth initiation. A person as soon as he is admitted is called

a Sufi, but to call it by a good name because they will develop to it. Therefore the good name is

always good. But when it comes to the degree, it is the ninth degree, Sufi.

The first three degrees are the:



Elementary section

Junior section

Senior section of the Study Circle

The second three are the:

Associate,

Licentiate

Initiate of the Advance Circle

The third three are the:

Talib

Mureed

Sufi of the Inner Circle

The fourth three are:

Khalif

Murshid

Pir-o-Murshid Higher Circle

In this way these degrees are divided. For them different papers are given for their studies. For each

degree there is a different literature. And now we need very much to distinguish these degrees in

order to utilize the literature to its best advantage.

Q. The paper you speak of as being prepared for Geneva, will that be clearly stating what letters

we put?

A. If you like I will explain it again. As I have said, Elementary section, the first, is the Study

Circle. What we put is:

1 S., 2 S., 3 S.,

The next three I put: 1 A., 2 A., 3 A.,

The next three I put: 1 I., 2 I., 3 I., And so on.

Then it is a higher circle. Besides, there is always another danger, of a dispute between mureeds.

They will dispute among themselves if they know that the degree of one is this and the other is this.

They will say, “You are not worth this.” They will dispute and discuss, “You have been so many years,

I was so many years. You have not studied or practiced so much as I have.” Therefore there will be a

discussion and disagreement between mureeds. Therefore the graduation, when there is a large

number, it becomes a means of dispute and misunderstanding and revolt. The best will be try and

avoid this: to adopt a method of subtle working.

Q. When every inquisitive mureed says, “What is it, what does it mean: 1 S?” What to say? “It is

a private number” ?



A. No. “Reference number for the initiator.” That is better.

Q. Must the Gatha classes always be arranged according to the initiation? Sometimes a person

who has studied thoroughly would be better in another group. If you put him in a group with

people who have not studied it discourages him very much. A. For that, what is generally done is this, that if it is within the power of the Shaikh to initiate

thrice, he can give even the three first initiations as admission initiation. He can give even

their third initiation in the same year to make the qualification. Even the Murshida can give

the sixth initiation within the same year. Pir-o-Murshid will not come to ask, because it is a

trust. Because power given is the trust given to them to use according to their own

discrimination.

Q. Are those Gathas, Sangathas, Sangitas and Gitas all to be read in classes?

A. Yes, they belong to certain degrees for different classes. Shaikh must read them.

Elementary initiation has the first series of Gathas

Junior initiation has the second series of Gathas

Senior initiation has the third series of Gathas

Associate the first series of Gitas

Licentiate the second series of Gitas

Initiate the third series of Gitas

Talib the first series of Sangathas

Mureed the third series of Sangathas

Sufi the third series of Sangathas

So on it goes.

Q. What could be done in a rather small group where they seem to be mixed in their

development? Perhaps one or two who had not studied at all, and two, three who had studied

a great deal and have been considered advanced students. And if there would not be time or

opportunity to conduct separate classes for each of those?

A. Yes, it must be. Even if there were two or three.

Q. The lower ones must not be permitted to enter the other classes?

A. No. Those in the first must not be permitted in the second. And when people are mixed up

they make a wrong use of it. For instance, Mrs. Taylor, she came to Detroit and she called

mureeds there. Maybe that there were mureeds who were just admitted once. Not the second

initiation, only first initiation. She gathered them all and taught them, “La Ella ella you,” a new Zikar. It

is worse even than Baron Howen (in Nice in 1925). Did his Zikar with all strength he had possible: that



changed his voice and word to such an extent that it was difficult for Sirkar even to listen to it. (Sirkar

could not hold his breath when telling him to do it.) but he only did for himself. But this lady, she made

a new Zikar and she taught them. So now it must be all avoided.

And now there are many Alankaras in Vadan, also in Gayan. And I am going to issue a paper from

Headquarters that will give an idea of each Alankara and its purpose of different people, that if they

repeat that Alankara for two hundred, three hundred times a day, what effect it will produce. And

therefore, the Alankaras of Gayan and Vadan both may be utilized for the best purpose. Besides I

wish to ask the Murshidas and Shaikhs of different countries if we cannot make a kind of distinction or

a way o appreciation for someone in the Sufi Movement who will make it a point of learn one saying of

Gayan or Vadan by heart every day. Those who can say, in the Summerschool or in the end of the

year, that every day of the year he has taken one saying and he has learnt it by heart. When the

Prophet Mohammed gave the Message there was this distinction given. And it was this distinction

which was called Hafiz. Because this will do more good than any study or literature. If a mureed learnt

it by heart, then he has made a meditation of that one saying. And if each day of the year he has

made one saying of Gayan and Vadan by heart, he has acquired a great spiritual enlightenment. And I

would like to ask Murshida Green if she will kindly tell us what is the best way of bringing this into

practice.

Q …

A. One can do one saying of Gayan every day by heart. If it takes one year, or if it takes more

than one year, or less than one year, it does not matter.

Q. He must repeat it also? Then next day one repeats two sayings?

A. No, he need not repeat it if he has learned it by heart once. Next day … Every week once a

repetition. Then in one year’s time he has to read the whole Gayan once. It is a kind of

meditation. It is being engraved in his spirit. The thing is this, that they do not need to pass an

examination. They need not come and say, “I have mastered it and I know it.” Only if each one

practiced during five minutes, and every day the page before, he gives five minutes to it, and every

week perhaps he will give half an hour or one hour to read the whole book, to repeat what he has

learnt. What he has learnt by heart once repeat in one year.

Q. Murshid, some sayings interest people, some are forgotten by people.

A. Even those that are forgotten still remain in his subconscious mind. The time comes and that

saying is pertaining to a certain situation in his life. At that time that saying will spring up in his

mind, in the dream. That will become a kind of torch in his hand.

Q. Could they be called Gayanis?

A. That is very nice.

Q. Would you take the Gayan first?



A. I think so. Yes.

Q. Would you begin at the beginning?

A. With the beginning. Yes.

Q. Not leave one?

A. No.

Q. Must these people take a vow that they will dot it?

A. No. If they just … but they must do something. Of course next year we shall add it in the vows

also. But what can be done? That is what I am asking.

Q. Is there no danger that, when there is not something done people forget… unless there is

some system.

A. Can we make it perhaps a part of the Confraternity. But Gayan and Vadan are in the

Universal Worship. So they have not to take two vows: only one, with the admission into it. It

is supposed that they will try. It is not incumbent upon them that they should try to do it.

Because if we make a special vow they will say, ‘How many vows in the Sufi Movement!”

Maybe. I am so afraid of vows. If at the same time when they have taken the blessing of the

Confraternity, when they take it together with it. This also is an inner contact. It is one of the

duties. This is not an obligation, but a duty.

Q. Some people are not able to learn by heart, some people cannot remember anything.

A. They are excused, because it is not an obligation. Well, some of them can take one saying in

a week, some of them make take it for a week. Next week another saying. But regularly.

Q. …

A. but in the teaching of Islam there are two things: it is called Faraz and Sumnad (?). Faraz is

something that every Moslem must do, and that is five times prayers. And there are five, the

tax of the State, and other things too. Faraz they must do. And there is Sumnad (?). Sumnad

means: one may do it. And if we made the distinction of the two things: what one must, and

what one may. So then it will make it right.

Q. Must it be added in the paper which is being printed, or only told? I had understood that the

paper was to be printed.

A. The thing is this: that I think it may be explained. Because they will get confused. Then they

will not know which is which. Do you not think so? So please explain it after a Confraternity’s

lecture to them. Or perhaps in every country the head of the country will explain. That is the

best. So perhaps Murshida will make out a little announcement how it will be given to the

people in the different countries.

Q. If we called it just Faraz and Sumnad?



A. Duty and task. The duty one must do, and the task one may accomplish. So we can

distinguish the two part of the work.

Q. The person who leads the silence, what must he do?

A. He must think on his Murshid.

Q. But is there a way in which he can make the silence stronger? For instance, if he does it

perhaps by inhaling pulling the people to him, and by exhaling sending them….

A. No, nothing of that kind. The leader who leads silence, he leads it on behalf of the Murshid.

Therefore at the time when he is leading silence he forgets himself and he establishes the

thought of Murshid’s presence and forgets himself. That only enables him to become the

channel of the Message. But the thought that he keeps before him is the thought that the

Message is being given in silence through this channel: that he is, to those who are just now

sitting in his presence. That is the idea. That just now he has become a kind of channel of

Pir-o-Murshid to give the Message to those who are sitting before him in silence.

Q. If somebody asks, “What must we do in silence?”

A. You must tell them that they must not think of anything: only a passiveness, a passive attitude

and a receptive attitude. That with the receptive attitude, without thinking of anything, they

must feel that they are receiving the Message, the part of the Message which can only be

given without words. That they are receiving, their subconscious mind, their heart, their soul

is receiving the Message which cannot be given in words; the part of the Message which can

only be given in silence.

Q. Not to give them a picture of light, radiance?

A. Nothing. As soon as you give them an object, that is concentration, not a silence. You may

have another class, maybe another division, where you give them an object of concentration.

That is a concentration class. You can tell them to hold the picture of light or of radiance or of

a flower or something. That is another thing. That is a practice of concentration, an exercise

of mind. But when you give the sacred silence, at that time you become the channel to give

the Message. Neither you think of anything nor you ….Only automatically, from the external

channel the Message runs into their subconscious mind.

Q. How often must that silence be held?

A. Once a week is all right, for half an hour. Sometimes, if they are very restless, then make it

twenty minutes or fifteen minutes. On the sacred reading, silence for five minutes. But if it is a

special silence you give half an hour. In the Gatha class a silence of five minutes.

Q. Is it desirable to have with some mureeds, those more advanced, a Zikar?



A. It is better not to. Only in an exceptional case: among hundred or two hundred mureeds you

think once a mureed you can help giving ….

Q. I mean a collective Zikar (question asked by Murshida Green)

A. No. Zikar as a practice in the instruction.

Q. No, that I am not asking. I mean those to whom Zikar has been prescribed. May we have a

collective Zikar with them?

A. (the following answer was extremely reluctantly given)

Yes, you may, to those to whom Zikar has been prescribed.

Q. Is it not desirable?

A. It is not desirable to give a collective Zikar. Who have already Zikar, you may give. That is

why I have stopped the Zikar here. But then I saw every day new mureeds come. If they have

done Zikar in congregation, they will ask for Zikar as a practice. That is a practice given to

seventh initiation: to Talib initiation. Because Zikar is like a sword. A person can use it this

way or that way.

Q. We have had had collective Zikar in London. There were some present to whom it has not

been prescribed. I have explained to them they were only allowed to do it together with others.

A. From now, Murshida, I would like it to be restricted.

Q. Collective Wazifas? Or collective Fikars?

A. Not desirable.

Q. If you hold a longer silence, can one also hold another silence in which they do for instance

the Fikar: Ya Shafi Ya Kafi each?

A. Better not. Because one is holding Ya Shafi Ya Kafi, another Ya Wahabo. Each one his own

thought, each his own Wazifa. The whole atmosphere will become an atmosphere of great

conflict if everybody did it. Confraternity is different.



08.9.26 Distinction of the words which have opposite meaning

Wednesday

The points that I would like to speak on today are of the distinction of the words which have opposite

meaning, and at the same time give the sense of the same meaning, words such as pleasure and

happiness, and fact and truth. If not all, at least Sufis must distinguish between pleasure and

happiness, between fact and truth. When people going on the spiritual path use these words wrongly –

in place of fact they say truth, and in place of pleasure they say happiness – then others must

necessarily make a mistake. But it is not only understanding of these two different words, but knowing

of them.

This morning I was talking with some persons who were giving a great emphasis on telling truth. They

were so pleased about the principle they were mentioning, saying that “I always tell the truth” they

defeated their meaning. They could have just as well said, “I speak of facts” instead of saying, “I am

telling the truth.” In the first place what a difficult thing it is to know truth; and if you know it, then it is

still more difficult to tell it. Besides, that false pride that many people have of being “truthful”, and they

are very soon titled by others, saying that they are straightforward, whether they are bold, or whether

they are outspoken, or whether they are abrupt, or whether they are insolent, as long as they

thoughtlessly or out of weakness give an expression to certain fact that they could have just as well

held back, they are called “straightforward” very often. Straightforwardness is a great ideal, but abused

by those who do not understand what straightforwardness means. Is it straightforwardness to be

insolent? Is it straightforwardness to hurt a person’s feelings? Is it straightforwardness to insult a

person? Is it straightforwardness to pull him down from the position that he wishes to be? No. Can one

be straightforward by cutting words? No. Once can be straightforward only in such situation when by

telling he sacrifices his own pride and his own benefit. Then he is straightforward. Insolent persons are

not necessarily straightforward. He is a simpleton; he does not know better.

And now the same thing is with pleasure and happiness. If once calls happiness a happiness, then his

happiness is much that it comes in a moment and passes away. That happiness on which you cannot

depend, which does not belong to you, it is no happiness. Every pleasure is a pleasure; it is only a

shadow of happiness. Happiness is something you can rely upon; you own it, you can depend upon it.

It never leaves you once you have found it. How few know happiness such as this! They always use

for intense pleasure the word happiness. Happiness is not a sensation. Happiness is the original

freedom-feeling, feeling of harmony, peace, intelligence; feeling of ease and comfort and strength. It is

that which can be called real happiness.

Then by our work what are we seeking? We are seeking for that happiness. By doing our practices we

are seeking for that happiness. But one might ask, “Where does that happiness belong? Is it within

us?” Nothing in the world can give it: money, position, wealth, anything that is given to us, that is



bought by us, or gathered in some way, nothing. There is only one way of getting happiness, and that

is discovering it within oneself. All such practices given to you, as Zikar, Fikar, Wazifas, they all

prepare you to find one day or the other that happiness which is meant to be yours.

Happiness is called Ananda in the Sanscrit language. Sanscrit metaphysics tell us that our very being

is Ananda, that means happiness. We seek for happiness, yet our self is happiness. And in seeking

for happiness what are we seeking? We are seeking for ourselves. Therefore striving in the spiritual

path is not necessarily for a great power or wonder-working or for knowledge of things that others do

not know. It is to deepen the inspiration, insight; it is to find that latent power which is within ourselves,

which we can use on ourselves. It is to find that happiness which is beyond all pleasures; it is to gain

that knowledge which cannot be gained by study; and it is to arrive at that peace which is the seeking

of every soul.

Q. Murshid, by joy you mean the same thing as pleasure?

A. Yes; only pleasure has some coarseness in its meaning, but joy has some fineness in it.

Q. Murshid, and the heavenly joy of which you speak in “The mysticism of sound?”

A. It is a joy that leads to happiness. It is a joy which is a kind of ladder which leads to

happiness.

Q. You can never say that happiness is a sensation? It is not a sensation?

A. No, no. Pleasure is a sensation. It is the essence of feeling. It is not this feeling or that feeling,

but it is feeling itself.

Q. Joy is also no sensation?

A. Joy is finer sensation. You may not call it sensation. It is between happiness and pleasure.

Q. Can a soul have that happiness when on earth?

A. The soul is that happiness. And that happiness is felt when the soul feels itself independently

of outer being.

Q. Study and read books, or not?

A. I would say that there is one thing: to make physical exercises and develop muscles; and

there is another way: to learn the way of wrestling, to learn how to bring a person down. These are two

different things. The person who does not want to wrestle … he can only build his muscles and keep

in perfect. But the one who thinks it is necessary, he will meet some thieves or robbers in his daily life,

there will come an occasion for boxing, then it is better to know it. Exactly the same with the Sufi. In

order to be a Sufi you do not need to read books and develop your knowledge. You develop your

intuition and … your daily experiences will teach you wisdom. But if you have to do the work of the

Sufi Movement and teach and preach, then it is like wrestling. You will have to wrestle, and you must

know the way of wrestling, how to defend yourself, how to expose (express) yourself, how to stand

firm on your feet. And all those ways can be learnt also by studying more.



Now I shall tell you one little story that will explain more. During the way I lived in England for about six

or seven years and never had a chance of speaking at the University. And there came a professor

from the United States. He was a scientist, and he came to hear my lecture. After hearing my lecture

he said, “I have never believed in God, or soul, or hereafter. So please know that I am an unbeliever. I

have come to hear your lecture because you are form another country; I wanted to hear what you

said. And what strikes me in your lecture is not what you have said, but only what has been given

without saying. And now what I want to ask you is, what is it? What have you given? I have felt that I

have received something more tangible than words and their meaning. Now you must tell me what it

is, because I do not know what soul and spirit and God are. You have given me something spiritual,

but I want to know it scientifically. Do you call it magnetism?” I said, “Please do not call it magnetism.

That is quite different.” He said, “Excuse me, I have no other words to use. Therefore please have

patience with me. I want to know more about it.” I said, “All right. If you want to know more about it I

shall allow you to have silence with me alone.” So one day he came to have silence with me. When I

was going to sit for silence he said, “Shall I feel your pulse? Or put the thermometer here?” “Please do

not put any machine.” But he said, “I have got all these machines….” put them all on the table. I said,

“If you want to put it, put it on yourself.” So he was very amused also. He said, “All right.” He put it on

himself. And after the silence he found the rhythm of his pulsation and of his heart and of his

circulation quite changed. In half an hour’s silence, after having been sitting, his rhythm was quite

changed. So afterwards he was very surprised and said, “This is something that science has not yet

discovered. But I want to catch it.” So I thought the man was very eager and sincerely seeking for

something. So I told him the three different breaths, Jelal, Jemal, and Kemal, and their influence on

the rhythm of breath, and their influence on the body and its influence on the atmosphere. And he

listened. Imagine, after listening that much he took that principle and went to the zoological garden

with the same machines, and tried the tigers and lions from the point of view of Jelal, Jemal, and

Kemal, got all the experiences, and wrote two books on that subject, and went to the university. On

London University he made such an impression. They said it was quite a new idea; they had never

heard about it. He was a stranger but he was given a chair in the university. And then he published

books and presented them to me, about Jelal, Jemal, and Kemal. And here I said, “Seven years I have

lived in England; the university has never even inquired if I lived there. Here this man comes, hears

about Jelal, Jemal, and Kemal, weaves upon it, puts it in university terms, and there is has become a

great science.

So in support of Mr. Salamt’s saying that it is a necessity that our Sufi members, especially the young

members who have the time and energy and inclination, to study; they can be such a great help to the

Sufi Message. Then they can interpret the Message in terms of science and technical terms, and this

can make all the difference.

I shall give you another example. A doctor in England4 was trying to find the origin of medicine for a

long, long time. One day he was speaking to me and I said that the origin of medicine was of

4 Ameen Carp: this is doctor C.G.Gruner, an early mureed, who wrote a book on Avicenna



Avicenna, the great Sufi in Persia, and on his principles modern medicine was based. He was very

surprised and said, “Can it be true!” So he went to the library and got Avicenna. After studying it he

found out that really modern medicine is based on the Sufi principle. If I had said that before people

they would never have believed it. They would think that in order to advance the Sufi Movement now I

am dragging medicine also along. But the man has studied now for seven years and he has published

another book. He is an M.D. In technical terms he writes, never mentions soul, or God, or the

hereafter. Now that the terms of Avicenna, which are mystic, have been rendered in scientific

language they all become so interested in it. I have just heard from this man, this doctor, that he is

writing a second book on the same subject.

Q. Is this man unconsciously a help to the Message?

A. He is a help consciously and unconsciously, both, although he is not working for the

Movement. Also for the world it is a very good thing. If medical world hears from a medical

man in their own terms, they hear. This man was such a book-friend; from morning till evening he read

books. He was getting tired of reading books. And then one day, in order to take a little rest from his

reading, he came to hear my lecture. He was so impressed by it that he wrote down every lecture I

gave, just to remind him. After six or ten lectures he presented that book on his wife’s birthday. So his

wife thought, ‘How wonderful, my husband is never interested in anything religious or spiritual, but he

has written down six lectures of Murshid. How wonderful!” This brought him to see me. He was a very

shy man, wonderful personality, God scientist. And at the project of being a mureed, he very readily

became a mureed. And in three years’ time from then, by the practices he did, a new inspiration came

to him and during these three years a spiritual awakening. All that he has done really worth while in his

life has been done in that period; books on the science of blood and on the origin of medicine and on

many different points he has written with greater inspiration. And that shows that spiritual development

is not only to make a person a retired ascetic. If a person is a scientist, artist, musician, engineer,

literary man, in business, industry, politics, in every walk of life it will be useful.

Q. What is the tendency of a kleptomaniac?

A. It is a deep impression in childhood or before he was born. If the mother had that idea, then it

is impressed upon him, and then without any reason he has the tendency to do it. But there

are many madnesses which are not known by the doctors, and in many people you can find.

A person may be quite normal in everything, and then there is something wrong somewhere.

Perhaps it will take you twelve years to find it. That person seems quite normal. But all these

things come from impressions.

Q. It is the greater part that one can consider insane in that way?

A. the greater part, yes. If I were to tell you, you would be simply shocked at what number, what

percentage in the world is insane. If I were to tell you, you would be simply surprised.

Q. …



A. I think by a friendly advice one can correct, not be teaching her, but by talking with her. But

by talking with her in such a way that she does not feel that you are teaching. The …. always

of (off) the point. The best way is never to come to the point. As there is the saying, “beating around

the bush.” All is said and yet you have not said. Always off of the way; you do not commit yourself.

Always tell him, and you have not told; he can never catch you. And so continue for a long, long time,

for a year or so, then …. I have done it with one person for ten years. And I had the patience to do it,

and never spoke to that person clearly about it. So it is a work of patience. But in the end one

succeeds.

Q. Is it anxiety of the person that he will not allow you to come to the point?

A. No, no. Sometimes a person is by nature, his mentality is such that as soon as you come to

the point that person becomes antagonistic to you, that person feels displeased. No person

wishes his weakness to be touched. How many mistakes he makes, he knows that it is a

mistake, and as soon as you touch…

Q. Is it pride?

A. It is the ego. It is the habit of the ego. From a child to old person it is the nature; servants …

strangers, friends and all.

Q. Murshid, but it is not everybody’s art to manage with a person in this way.

A. Of course, it is art, a great art. Even the work of a lawyer is much smaller in comparison to

the work of the teacher. For the lawyer all facts are plain, straight, logical, without wit or

fineness; but for the Teacher whose work is one of great Art in psychology, there is a large

place for subtle communication, with wit, fineness and delicate understanding.



10.9.26 Things to remember

Friday

Now today I would like to speak some of the things that you will remember after having gone from

here.

It is never possible to tell you in words how much devotion you may have for your Murshid an how

much you may not have. Nor is it possible to tell in words how much faith you may have in Murshid

and how much you may not have. And it is also impossible to say in words that what you may think of

Murshid and what you may not think. Only, if you will not measure it with a meter and will not weigh it

on a scale, so much the better it will be.

I would leave to all mureeds and workers their own idea about the teachings. If there is anything I

have taught which has not agreed with you, you will bear with me. Maybe that one day you will

understand. And if there is something that you have appreciated or understood, you must know that it

belonged to you, that it was yours. And when an occasion comes to defend the Cause, the Message,

Murshid, only remember that you need not say or think or feel what you yourself do not naturally think

or feel of Murshid. You must not consider that you are bound under a duty to think of Murshid to be so

and so, and to feel your Murshid to be so and so, and to keep Murshid on a certain height. It is not

necessary. If you consider your Murshid your friend, your comrade, your counselor, that is quite

enough. Only, the best way of respecting Murshid and holding him high is your sympathy and

devotion, is not to compare Murshid with anybody. Whatever you think of him, good or bad, high or

low, it does not matter. But still, comparison is not necessary.

And now the question: what will you tell people about it, how will you present Murshid to people, how

will you tell about the Message to people, how will you speak about the teachings. I leave it absolutely

to you. At that same time I suggest: do not say anything about Murshid, the Message or the teachings

that will antagonize people. If instead of coming they run away by your talk, you may just as well not

say. Besides, sometimes, if you tell a person in words, he is terrible to have interest. If you tell a

person whose vanity will be touched, whose pride will burst against, and whose ideas will shatter, with

that person you must go very gently, quietly. If you thought that a person is against, you must not

make a hurry to turn him for. Because you must know that it is difficult to turn a person for, and that it

is easiest to turn a person against; go slowly. There will come a time when the person will interest

himself more. Sometimes your reserve will win the person more than your words. And your gently

going toward him will attract him more toward you than if you tell hastily. Because you will knock him

down. One can bump against a person and make him fall just because one was in haste. It is exactly

the same picture of those who are in haste to win a person for us.



And the last thing: that you will consider your Teacher with you wen you are away. Murshid goes still

more with you, for the very reason that you are away. And therefore you have no reason to think that

you are separated or far away from Murshid. But you must feel confident that, for the very reason that

you are away, and space has divided us, that Murshid is so much more near.

Q. Sometimes when one is confronted with a person one has a feeling that one must go very

gently, and in other cases that one must make more haste. Is it in such case wrong to make

haste?

A. Often haste has a bad result. Of course, I do not say that always it has a bad result; but often

is has a bad result. You must not say that I am telling you this. But in many cases, in my own

work, I have found that whenever I have made haste, things go wrong; whenever I made

haste the thing is spoiled. As they say, “haste makes waste.” That is so.

Q. There was an opportunity for a man to become a mureed and he at once became it. He was

very happy. Will he have a bad effect afterwards perhaps?

A. No, that is not necessary. In some cases you will find successful a quick decision or a quick

effort. But not always.

Q. Is it possible that in a future period the more intellectual type will come in the Sufi Movement?

A. May I tell you that when Krishna said, “I am in the heart of my devotee,” I wonder why did he

not say that, “I am in the heart of my students”? what the students will keep is the theories in

their heads; what the devotee will keep is the Teacher in his heart. The two persons are different. And

on the foundation of devotion, if intellectuality is built, then it is most wonderful. But if it is not built on

that foundation, then it is the most difficult thing possible.

Now I shall give you some examples. As much as my brain I give n giving lectures and answering

questions and seeing visitors, so much of my brain has been eaten up by one intellectual person

discussing his problems of which he is not decided, of which he is not sure himself. Besides that,

sometimes intellectuality is understood quite differently. One man said, “I want so much that

intellectuality is introduced in the Sufi Order.” I was rather wondering what he means by intellectuality.

He said, “Some brain work. That is why many people do not come to the Sufi Order. They have no

food for the intellect.” I thought, “What he means is really something substantial.” I very seriously took

it. He said, “Really, there must be something intellectual introduced.” I said, “for instance what?” He

said, “Some such idea as a fifth root-race, a sixth root-race, a seventh root-race, the race that is to

come.” And then he said that, “In Himalayas there is a center where Mahatmas live and the name of

that center is Madamohan. Is it right or not? There five initiations are given and the sixth initiation is

given in another center which is at the South of Kashmir. – And then the Bodhisattva. What is

equivalent to Bodhisattva, Nabi or Rasul? And what about Maitreya who is another Master. And I

would like to know who is the Master of the Masonic. He must be another Master again.” I listened to it

all. This is the intellect they call! They consider this an intellect. And what is it? It is the top of the



children. Their brain has become a top. It wants to more and more and more. It does not want to stand

still. That is what they call intellectuality! I was simply filled with it. I did not discuss with this man. I

said, “We shall wait one day.” “No, no,” he said, “I have a great desire that there should be

intellectuality in the Sufi Order.” Well, this fellow went here and there. He was a great well-wisher to

the Movement. He really wanted to do some good. One day he brought some intellectual person. He

said, “Now this intellectual person will introduce in the Sufi Movement some of that part which is

missing.” So this intellectual person came. He began to tell me about different centers which are in

different mountains. He first spoke to me about those mountains, about different schools in different

places. What Blavatsky had said in that particular period in that mountain. And that there was a

Mahatma who gave his message to another Mahatma, that this Mahatma got occult power; and that

an occult center was created. He was connected with all these centers. And what he wanted to do was

nothing but to put people out of their faith and their devotion and their ideal. That only was the work he

wanted to do. Everything was wrong; and he wanted to put out everything and in its place there was

nothing else. Only these stories of different centers and Mahatmas. That this Mahatma flew from that

center to the other center. And that is all. The whole thing was most intellectual. He was a professor

and doctor and many things besides; what they call a book-intellect. So far as the university intellect

goes, it goes; as far as the university intellect. But when you go beyond university intellect they say,

“Those are ideas which have no foundation.” And when you tell them something about foundation,

they say, “It is so simple. What does Murshid say? It is so simple.” But if one of these simple things he

will meditate upon for his whole life, he will not need one other book, he will have enough for his whole

life. And if he will think of one of these principles which I told, he will be quite all right.

One day – I will tell you another surprising thing: it will interest you; and besides, it will be useful in

your work – I was giving a Sunday public lecture and in that public lecture, in an inspirational moment,

I poured out some most valuable conceptions that anyone could have used for his whole life and

contemplated upon them, and inspiration would have flown like a river. Immediately after that I have

seen some of our people. And he was saying that, ‘Now in the Summerschool there must be

something given, something which is quite esoteric must be given.” I said, “What do you mean by

esoteric?” “I mean not these public lectures which are given before people, where everybody comes

and hears. But to some selected people some esoteric teaching must be given.”

I looked up and down and right and left and I said, “God, God, how is it! Here I have poured out my

heart, opened my soul. They have heard words they can meditate upon their whole life and never it

will be enough, never it will be less for them. And yet here he wants something, esoteric teaching? If I

would have said that, “there is going to come a race and from that race there is going to be born a

great Mahatma, and that Mahatma will go to Tibet and he will throw out the Dalai Lama from his

throne, and he will get the throne, and he will produce without a machine flying in the air,” they will

say, “That is something interesting, some new thought, quite new and intellectual.” Anything

maddening tell them – they will believe it.



Therefore I pray God that my mureeds and collaborators will have that heart which the collaborators

and mureeds of the Prophet had; that they will give me strength and courage in my life, and stand by

me in my life’s strife, instead of having many book-intellects who have perhaps learned much. That is

of no worth or use to me or for my Cause. I am quite satisfied with the intellectuality of my devoted

mureeds. If they have not learned many books, if they have not read about Mahatma – if they can

think of simple things in life and know how to do them best, that is quite enough.

Of course, when there is wisdom’s Message given, simple ones will come also. But there is a food for

them also. Where will they go if they will not come to us?

We will not send them away. It is sometimes the simple one whose faith has held the church, not the

intellectual ones. They discussed, they fought, they disagreed and they went away because it did not

fit in with their own ideas.

But then one might say, “Shall we always get the devotional people and not the brainy people?” I say,

“No, they will come.” But what must be done is that those among us who are intellectual, they must try

their best to put before intellectual people the Message, in intellectual form.

Q. I know a person who studies all the masters. She sees them at night. They seem to tell her, “If

ever you see any Sufis, go to them, come in touch with them.”

A. Of course, that Master must be very kind to us. We ought to respect that Master very much. It

is simply wonderful. One day a man came to me; he was very humble, gentle and very, very

kind. He says, “Murshid, you are so very kind, I am so grateful to you, I am so inspired by all

you have said. Only one prayer I have now, and perhaps by our blessing it will be granted;

ant it is that one day I will see the master.” I said, “Certainly. Amen”

Q. Is it good to be humble toward people when speaking about the Sufi Message?

A. It depends upon with whom you are talking. Once in Munich a man came to see me and he

said, “What is Sufi Message, what is Sufi Movement? I have never heard about it.” I said, “It

is a little effort to serve humanity.” Do you know what he said? He said, ‘If it is a little effort to serve

humanity I have nothing to do with it. I want some great effort to be done for humanity. That is what I

am looking for.” I said, “You must find it somewhere else.” And I was very glad that he did not come

with us. So humility sometimes brings quite a surprising result. But at the same time it does not matter

much. They do not belong to us.

Q. Sometimes people want to see powers.

A. Our strength is not our pride, our strength is our conviction. We can be humble and yet be

strong on the foundation of our conviction, our faith.

Q. Murshid, people so often speak of clairvoyance. Is clairvoyance a soft heart that can feel with

people, that feels when we are speaking with people. We feel their long and desire to know?



A. Yes, it is clairvoyance. It is a better kind of clairvoyance rather than tell them their fortunes, to

feel interest of going and telling them their fortunes.

Q. Why is nature more beautiful than human being?

A. I have heard a wife admiring nature to whom her husband said, “I love you, and you love

nature.”

The idea is that nature is a direct revelation and human being is a veiled revelation. And you ought to

have a keener insight in human nature in order to admire it and appreciate it. And you do not need to

have so keen an insight in order to admire nature. You are directly in communication with it. But those

who have come to admire human nature and had insight in human nature, they would sacrifice the

whole world for one human being. Al the mountains and hills and dales and plants and rivers and sea,

the whole can be sacrificed for one human being. Because human being is a nature too. It is a greater

and deeper nature and a more wonderful nature. But one must be able to see it.

Q. Is not nature nearer to the Divine Being?

A. Human being is nearer to human being, more near than to nature. But as much as human

being is attracted to human being, so much he is repulsive to human being. So much he

attracts, so much he repulses. And sometimes when he repulses a little more, then it is all wrong.

Q. Is there more divinity in nature than in human being?

A. Human being is closes to Allah than nature. Nature is far removed. Only, nature is easy to

communicate with, and human being is most difficult. At once you feel peace of mountains,

joy of trees, harmony of water. At once you can feel. But to feel a human being, it takes a

long time.

Q. First a struggle arises very often before one can communicate with a human being. This you

do not feel in nature.

A. There is no struggle in nature. You see, it is the quickest mechanism; everything is going on

so quickly; mind body, soul and sprit; they are so quickly working that it jars upon another

person. But if you know the fineness of the mechanism, if you throw a light upon it, well, that

is something which really takes one closer to God.

Q. Is it for every person one could sacrifice all the nature. Must it not be for the perfect?

A. Neither your “must” sacrifice for the perfect, nor for the ordinary person. You must not

sacrifice because it is good to sacrifice or because it is a virtue to sacrifice. Sacrifice is not a

virtue. Sacrifice is only a virtue when you feel like sacrificing.

Documents

Collective interviews 1924 1926