Blalock Geraci

8/13/2019 Blalock Geraci

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~ ~ n c ~ to • h " ~ v i ~ · · ~ l ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ c-r•re-seA ~ ~ ~ t h ~ e f l_.Y.1\IO..I. -'-- 't " -• • ' " " • - '. .44 _. ._.. f oolt .,., •• ~ ~ ~ u • \.4 :7 _ J ~ ya t tho C u b ~ n St udent D i r e ¢ t o r ~ t e ( C S ~ ) , 107 ~ ~ ~ t u r

S t r e ~ w ~ ; ; ; . s , Louisia .·.u. ... .L..:-c:< ~ d v i s a d th ·a t heacd a f r i e ~ d , ~ X I ~ : p GE RA CI, ~ e r i to the C S ~ to i : q ~ i r aabout i t s ; t i v i t i ~ s he h.:.:d h e ~ : - d it ?.J. :3 a ~ : ; . l t i - C ~ \ S T : \ . 0

C u b ~ n s t u ~ c n t o r g u i ~ ~ t i o ~ . E L A 1 0 C ~ d v i s c d t h ~ t w h ~ ~ heand _GE aAC: ~ r r i v e d a t the C S ~ . ~ c ~ t e d 3 t tho c ~ E : c J

S - c o r e ~ 107 Decat ur St rea t i t h ~ y t;,.lked wi th s. CART_.. J3E R ~ G I U S ( p h o ~ a t i c ) wto seemed to be t he leader c theCSD. While discuss ing the F U r p ~ s e s and a ~ t ~ v i t i a s o i th eCSD, :.n individu.: .l w ~ l o r l 3 L . - \ : . o c : ~ ~ : ; : t i ' i a d v.s bai:1g O S ~ ' i A . . Darr ivec ~ t t b.e s tore . ~ C : < reci l l ls 0 3i'i.-\ .J i . : : o _ u i r i : : ~ ·

~ b o u t the CSD n ~ d e x p r e 3 s i ~ ~ an i n t e res t to b c o ~ e am e ~ o e ~ ~ n a to le arn a l l he could ~ b o u t th a o r ~ c i z . : l t i c : : .

E L A L O C ~ advised t h ~ t ha a=ct h i s f r i a ~ d , GS RAC: ,had a 'b::-ie t co;:vc ::-sa. t ion w .th OSi'iA .zl, re gard :; guo:-r i l l -lo ~ e r ~ t i o n O S V A ~ D i n f o r ~ e d B L A ~ ~ ~ thn t he was a f o : ~ aU ~ r i n e t11=.t he h ~ a a ~ a r i c e G'Jido Bo0k wh ich he ha d reJ.ci

and in which cel e r ~ e d

a l l~ b o u g u e = r i l l ~ ~ ~ a r ~ t i c = s a ~ d

t a c t i c s . BL..A..LGCX raca l l s 037iALD des c r i b i ng to h i::. hc·.v

easy it V/ould b e to de:?:"ail a t ra i r . . OSW.AL l t o ld hi:::l t h a tt h i s could be ncccnpl i shed ~ y s e c u r i ~ g a chJ.ic ~ i t h a l eek

and w r ~ p p i n g it a r o ~ r . d r a i l road t r a cks . B h ~ L O C X a l soFeca l l s o s A L D : - : . e n t i o : l i ~ g tha. t h e k ~ e w r how t c b:ow U;J

b r i dGeS and a l so he knew how to oake gu n powde r a ~ d a"ZIP" zun. In a dd i io: : ·; OSWALD :neat io ned. tha t h e k : : : . a l l

· about guns but B ~ . A L G C K coul d no t r e ca l l h e exac t de t a i l so f what was d i s cus sed on the sub jec t o f guns .

B ~ ~ L O C K advised t ha t h i s conversat ion ~ i t hOSW.AL:> l a s t ed p robab ly about . f i f t e en u1i:r=.u t e s , a ~ d t ha t

OS':7.ALD z:: ever diSC ' . lSSed c o ~ r n ~ n i s w . Uarxis:::l. or a ~ y e th e rp o l i t i c a l ph i l o s cphy . O S ~ ' i A ~ ap?eared to hir;:1 as b e i ~ gwel l e ducs. te d and we : l read . Jus t pr io r to OS :;iALD e a v i ~he pro::i:.ised B;:...:.i.OCK and GE RACI t h a t in the ~ e a r f utu;r- e hewould l e t then borrow his Guide Book f ~ r ~ a r i ~ e s in which

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t hey cou ld ob ta i n all t he i c f o r ~ ~ t i o n they wanted r e g a r d ~ n gg u e r r i l l a warfa re . The l a s t t h ing 3LALOCX could r e c a l l

. r ega rd ing h i s c o n v e r s a t i o ~ with OSWALD was OS WALD m c n t i o n i ~ gt h e n ~ w ~ - 1 4 rifle wh i c h O S ~ L ~ D d e s ~ r i b e d to B L A L ~ C K aud

i n f o r m i ~ g B ~ ; L Q C t h a t moat o f t h e A r ~ e d S e r v ~ ~ e s had t h i sun a t t he p r e s en t t ime . F i n a l : y , B h ~ L D C X s t a t e d he

·- · r e c a l l s OSWALD m a k l n g some refere::>.ce t o F l o r i d a , · b u t cou ld . -fur .n i sh no d e t a i l s r egard ing CO:)Ul.r:ler:.ts OSWALD made i:-. t h i sr e ga rd . BLALOC; s ee rced to rerae;::;ber OSWAI.. ... ·

something about him r e c e n t ly v i s i t i c g t he Casa N ~phone t ic ) a Cuban o rg a n iz a t ion i ~ Flo r ida , · u his

r e c o l l e c t i o n was vague re g a rd ing fu r t he r d e t a i l s in t h i smat t e r e

BLALOCK s t a t e d th a t h e has not seen OSWALD s inc e

i s b r i e f meet ing with OSWALD in t h e l a t t e r pa r t o f _ u l y1

19 3 ,· and ccu ld fur::1.ish r.o a dd i t i ona l i n o r m ~ t i o l o f any

k i n d· regard. ing OSWALD.

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Mr. GERACI. He did see m like - guess be did seem like the type who was alittle anti social.

1\fr. LIEDELER. He didn 't seem to be too friendly ?Mr. GEnAcr. No. He see med friendly. I mean, be seemed friendly, you know,

but like he didn ' t l U\ 'e enough experience with people . Rort nf. He

seemed friendly though. That is one thing.

JUr. LIEDELER. I don 't hav e uny oth er questions.

Mrs. GERACI. Do you hav e a record of me repo rting Carlos to the F.BI? Do

yon hnY e lhnt in the record anywhere where I foun d out- he told me he wasgoing to collect money for Cuba, uu t I didn't know be was giving out th ese little

ti cke ts a s he call ed th em, and then when I found out he had collected $10 and

urougbt it clown and I saw the r eceip ts and he bad mor e ticke ts, we fo rbade

him to go down th ere, and Carlos culled the house to t ry to get him a- what isit- a license ot· per mit to go from bouse to house and collect money.

Mr . GERACI. He never culled me.Mr s. GERACI. He did ca ll me .1\lr. GERACI. He called you? Car los?

Mrs. GERAC . I spoke with him on the phone.

:\lr. GERACr. Tha t is becau ;::e I told him-when I collected. n man told metn do ROlltP thi ng likP that, that I needl'd a licen;::e, so I went and told rarlo ;:;.

"Yon have to get a license." He said , ' 'Don't collect any more until I get one."Th en h e went to city ball and got some s tuff be bad to fill out.

Mr . LIEnELER. Thi s wasn't Oswald who told you you couldn 't collect?Mr. GERACI. No.1\Ir. LIED ELER. Oswald didn ' t have any thing to do with thi s?

Mr. GERACI. No ; this was before I knew Oswald. This is a man works some

place-who works in a cleaner's, I remember. I went there and he sai rl I badto get a lic ense to do that, so I called Carlos on the phone and told him .

GERACI. Tben when Carlo " ca lled the house, I realized he was s till in ,·olved in thi s.

Mr. GERACI. I told you I was.

Mrs. GERACI. I put my foot down and told him he couldn' t do it any more, andI called the FB I.

Mr. GERACI. And the Better Business Bureau.Mrs. GERAC I. They told me to call the Better Business Bureau, but the man

nt the FB I told me be couldn't give ou t any info rmation as to whether thi s wa <

a Communist organization or no t, and the headquarters were in Miami , rmdthe best thing to do would be not to let him get in voh 'ed in it any more. Then

I call ed the Better Business Bu reau, and they were supposed to check with

l\Iiam i, bu t I never did get a report buck from him.

Mr . LIEDEI.ER. Was thi s before or after you met Oswald?l\lr. GERACI. Thi s was before.

GERAC. But he ha s the receipt at home with the da te on it . Whenhe gave Car los money, Carlos gave h im a receipt.

1\lr. GERACT. I rememb er Carlos making out a check to give th e money to

Miami too. When I gave hi m th e money, he put the monpy in hi s bunk andmarie out n to u .e headquarter s.

r ~ . GF.RAcr. Wt> met C'nrlo;:: just now in the lmll. and be to ld me the b{>st

th ing Philip could do would be listen to his parents and be a good student .Right now tha t would be the way he could help combat communi sm. And Itolfl hi lll T thOnl ht he Will < too yonnj:' to get involved in tltlngs lilct> thi <, selling

li r l;pt;:: for Cnbn anll all lh iR :tuff. Last year hP wns onl y 1 ) and too young> tobt> involved in all that Dli <R. T11e man at the FBI told me that an organization

could be a ll right tod ay and next week it would be ComrnnniRt-controlled andhow was I to know.

Mr. L IEBELER. D o you know who you talked to at th e FBI ?Mrs. GERACI. Get>. I may have his name at home wit h th<>se slips of Pape r that

I took from him .

Mr. LIEBELER. t s not really important. I just wondered if you rem embered.

1\lrs. GERACI. Well, I wa nted his nam e clt>nred for gptting mixed up with

Carlos , because I didn't know fr om beans about Carlos. He could be a Communist . I don't know who is and who isn't. When I found out be met Oswa ld,

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I nearly died. The week thi s happened be was camping with the Boy 'Scouts

and gone Friday, Saturday, and Sunday when the st uff wa s on TV .Mr. GERACI. I was in school when he got shot.1\Irs. GERACI. Dut you were in ca mp, IJut you didn't sec a lot of the fun era l and

all that stuff showing Oswald 's picture.Mr. LIEDELER. How did you fir st become aware tha t Oswa ld wa s th e fellow

you met' Did Vance ta ll to you about it? Do you remember?

Mr. GERACI. The fi.r st time was whe n the FBI agent came to my bouse and

asked did T see an ex-murine and showed a picture and all that. I didn't evenknow it before that. t was just then that. I realized.

1\Ir. LIEBELER . Did the FBI man tell you how h

1\Ir. GERACI. Got my name?

l\Ir. LIEBELER. What prompted him, why did be come to your bou se? Did

he tell you?

::lfr. GERACI. Well. be i e l he couldn't tell me tha t . I aslce<l him. and hi' sa id,well , he couldn't tell me. Of course, I guess it might have been beca use we-

m.\· utother called. you J;now. abont this Cuban business - tlley got my name onthpir li;::t or soml'thing. I guess. a nd when thpy found out that be t ried to join

t hat group, tha t must ilnve been where It came fr om. Th a t is wha t I thi nk.Mrs. GERACI. They probably had a list of people who were collecting money

for the org an lzu ion .

Mr . LIERELEn. OK. I do n't hav e any more que stions. I do wan t to thank

you very much for coming in and being as cooperative us you have , and, on

hebalf of the Commiss ion , I wan t to thank you very much.

Mr. GERAC . OK.

Mrs. GER ACI. You are welcome , so long as we don 't have any publicity.

Mr. LIEDELER. That is something you never can guarantee.

TESTIMONY OF VANCE BL LOCK

The tt>stimony of Yun ce nJ uluck, accompanied by h is parents. was taken on

Apr il 7-8 1004, at the Old Ci\ il Cour ts Building, Royal and Conti Streets,

Xew Orleans, Ln., by J.\Ir. 'Vesley J . Lil'beler, ass istant counsel of th e Pr esi dent'sCommission.

Yance Bla lock. having been first dul y sworn , was examined and t estified asfollows:

Mr . LmnEt.ER. ::\Iy n ame is Wesley .T. Liebeier. I am a member of the legal

st aff of the Pre sident 's Commission in ve;::tigatinp: the asRaS 'i nation of President

Kennedy. Staff members hav e been author ized to tak e the testimony of wi tnesses by the Commission. pursu an t to auth orit y :'run ted to the Comm ission by

P.xecu ti Ye Orcll"r No. cn tl"cl Novpm:J 'r 2 l. 1 l ( i an( join t re 'oln tion of

Congress No. 137. I understand, Van ce, that Mr. Lee Ran kin , who i;:: general<·Otm ; el of th e Commi;:;,_ion, wrote yon 11 1Ptt t>r la st \Y<Pk- -

Mr. BLALOCK. That i s righ t.

1\lr. LrEnF.r.En. And to ld you that I wou ld be in to uch wit h you concerning

the taking of your testimony. I understand that Mr. Rank in enclosed w ith

tha t letter 11 <·opy of the I•,xeentil·e order and of th P resolu tion of C()n:rress towh ich I lHl\C just refe rred. as well as a eopy of the r u l e of pro cedur e adoptedby th e Commiss ion governing the tak ing of the tt;;timony of witnesse >. Did

you r eceive that letter an d th ose documents?

1\lr. BL ALOCK. Yes; I did .Mr. Lmn&r.ER. We wa nt to inquire very brie fly of you conc·ern ing a n event

which occur red some tim e in the summer of 19G3 here in l'iew Orleans. We

un derstand that you were prese nt at a meeting, a chance llll'eting, between LeeHarvey Oswa ld wd Ca rlos Bringuier. Before get into th e detail s of tha t,however, would :rou state your full name for the record .

BLALOCK. Vance Dougl as Blalock.

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.Mr. IJucngLER. Let the record show OHIL your mother nml father nre here in

the room with us. How old nre you, Vance?

? lr, Bf..ALOCK. I am 10.

Mr n:nEI.ER. ·where were you lJoru?1\lr. Il i .u.ocK. I ake Ohurles, Ln.,\1 1·. J,JEDEI,EU. ·whc.rc. do yon lin: now?

i\lr. _BI.ALOOK. 1\fetniric, :Ln.Mr .f;lF.REl.ER. How long have you 1h·cd there?

llr. ]3 LOCK. Less Umn n yenr.

.?.Ir. J;IERELEu. Do you go to school?

~ \ J r BLALOCK. Yes, sir.

.l\lr. T;IEBEJ.ER. Where?

1\Ir. J3LALOCK. Enst Jefferson High School.

i\Ir. LmnELim. What; grno·e nrc .ron in nt mast Jefferson High School?

.i\lr. BI..ALOCK. Tenth.

.Mr. Ln.-nEu;n. Do ron kno-.,y Carlos l ~ r i l l b , ' l l i e i ' ?i\Ir. BLALOCK. r hnYe met him once.fllr. LIEnF.r.Eit. Uow did iL http pen that you mel him?

Mr. BLALOCK. I went downtown with my friend, Pllilip Geraci. We -.,,·cut to

n store to return funds thnL Philip hacl collected for t.be organization this man

hnd hnd, nntl while 1 was there I met Cnrlos . J ~ h n t is how _[ met him.

l\ r. LumEI.Elt. Dicl you lmye anything to do with these funds thut were col-lected b\' your friend Geraci?

Mr. B·I.,\LOCK. No, s i r ; I didn't.

1\[r. LIEm:I.Im. 'J'hat wns entirely his operation?

lHr. BLAr.OOIC, Yes.

1\lr. T.n:nF.Lim. Do you remember where .ron went that day with Philip?

1\Ir. Br.AT.OCIC Yes, sir; we went to Decatur Str'eet, I helie\·e it. is. _[ :un notsure: 'l'he store is the Cnsa Hocn.

Mr. Lu:nEI.tm. What organization was it lhnt Bringulcr was running? Do

yon know?

Mr. Hr.Ar.DCIC 1 couldn't sny the Spanish I H l l l H ~ . 'l'lle :\mericnu munc of t

is the Cuban Student Rerolutionnry Organization.

Mr. ' L m n ~ > . : l ; E R . Can you tell me approximately when that was?

l\lr. BI..,\I.OCK. Lust purl of the snmmer I conldn 'L--

Mr. LJEIJEI.En. Late .Tuly or early August. would it lH.•, or some tinle in Augustof JDGB?

Mr. JJL,\I.OCI.::. August would be the closest I con](\ gel. I don't rememiJerthe C.' (IICt dale.

Mr. l;IElli>:t.ER. Tell me the con\'ersation thnt .ron mul l'hilip ha<l with Eringuier w Jcll yon went Into the store.

1\lr BI,.\LOCK. Oh, we eJJter'etl the store nud Philip iutrmluced me to Car1os,

nncl l lolcl him-1 :;nw the funds Philip hncl collected for him, nne\ I tolcl him

I wns curious about whnt t was for, and then he explained for m<.• how tlJCorJ.:"nnizaUon wm·ke£1 nml told me he receincl the fnnc\s from l)eople in New

Orlenns :wcl sent it: to li'loricln, nncl that was his totnl husiness, nne\ he explninetl

that Communism was where the kids nre supposed to tell eYer.rthing on theirJ1Hl"ents, to obey .he State nnd not .heir 1m rents.

111r. r_.mlli-:LEit. I'1·esl'nt at lhis t•onvenmtion \\Cl"< just. yon nnd I"'hilip nn£1Curios? Is thnt right?

~ \ I r . HI ALOCK. No; here was IUJOther man-must hnve worked nt the store.l-1 e \\'HS prescn .

1\lr. LIEIJELI:It. Did you kllO\\' \\'hat. his name wns?

i\lt•. BLALOCK. No, Sir.

i\lr. Tmni>;u:n. Now while you were there in the store, did you notice anybodyelse preR(•ut?

.i\Ir. HLALOCI\. Well, :t mnn from n lUOYiug compnny or some trucking·coiUpnny

en me in. He htuln rndio that needed to he li.'\e(i, :1 broken ramo, nnd Lee n n · e , ~Oswald came in. .

Mr. LIEIU:Lim. '. 'ell us, to the lJcst of sour recollection, the things thnt hnppenedns C:tr as Oswahl was concerned.

Mr. BL.Al.OCK. lie wulkecl up to us nod leaned against the desk and listened

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to the conversntion. 'J'hen he startctl nsl\ing questions nOOut the orgnn\zution,

antl we were tnlking nbout b.-uerrilln wnrfnre, just In cnse the countrs got. in war

how young students conhl help, s o m c t h l n ~ in that nnture, nml tllen 1w s t n r t e c l ~then Oswald, Lee HarYes Oswald, asked Carlos Bring:uler allahont. the orgnniza

t Ol l ancl wha . pn rt it plnye<.l in the mn in moyemeut in ~ ' l o r i d a .Mt-. T..mnEr.Eu. Dltl they say a n y t . h i n ~ else? \Vns there more to the conversa-

tion?

1\lr. HLAI.OOK. Let's see.?II r. T;IF.HET,ER. Dicl this mnn who wnlke<l Uil introduce himself hy nnme?

:i\Ir. Br.Ar.ocK. I belle\ ·e so, but J don't rememher whnt. nnme he gaYe.ill r. -Lmmn.ER. _ \ re you now convince(l thnt he w a ~ T ee Ha rYey Oswala?

1\lr. Br . LOCK. Yes, sir. I know his fnce. T recognized his face.

1\fr. L1EBEI.F;n, Hut you don't rememb('r that he mentioned the nnme Lee Harvey

Oswald nt: that time?

1\fr. Br.AI.OCK, No.1\fr. Lu:BEr.F.It. Dill Oswnhl sn)' nnything about. h:\\'illf-{ lleen n fllnrine?

1\fr. Br..\I.OCK. Yes, si r ; he tlicl, nnd he explained thnt he t.ook training in.guerrill:t wnrfnre, nntl he told us hmY to blow llJl )lid :t::>, (lerail t r n i n ~ . mnke

zip t;nns, make homemade ~ n n p o w t l e rMr. LIEnELF.It. 1-le told you a Jout this in tletnil?ilfr. BLALOCK. He told US how to blow up the Huey T'. L O l l ~ llridg-c.r-.rr. l...IEBT·:u;n. Tell ns jm<t' whnt. he told you nhout thnt·. l know yon can't.

remember the exnct. wortlf:, hut. you c:m remember t.he :mhstnn('e of the coll\'crsn

tion. lYe wnnt you to tell us :thont it.1\fr. BL .HOCH:. He tolcluf> to put powder charges at eneh encl or the bridge from

t.he founda 'lon to whe-re the. foundntion meets t.he suspension part, nml to hlo\V.thnt part up ntul the center part: of the r i d ~ e would collapse.

Mr. T_.mm::t.F.H. Did he tulk about :tll)' other aspect of ~ n e r r i l l a wnrfnre that

you can remember??1-Ir. Bl..,\l.OCK. Be said that if yon don't: h:we the mnterials you nt.>cd nlways

a >nilable. you hnd to do without stuff.

Mr. r u:nELt:tt. Did he i Y e any RllCCific exnmple of that.?flfr. TI .AJ..OCK. Gunpm\'{\er, h i ~ h eXIllosives.illr. l m ~ I . t ~ I : . Dicl he tell j'Oll h o ~ · to 1\o without n n p o w d e r in thesenct.h·ities?

?1-fr. ll I.OCic. He told llS how to derail n lrnin without. g-UIIlJOWder.

?1-Ir. LrEIIF.l,EH. \Vhat: c\icl he say nlxlul thnt1

1\rr. 13I.AI.OCK. Tie s:tid 11111 n {'hain nroum1 the rai\rontl track nnd lock it to

the truck with n lock.1\Ir. r ~ n : m ; u : l t . And then when the train hit the chain it woulcl fler:til the train?

Mr. nr U.OCK. Yes, sir.

1\lr. T..IEJJEr.gu. Did he s:t,\' that he kne\\. how to nwke u n p o w c l e r ??1-fr. :Ur.Al.OCK. YC'S, ;Sir; he tolcl ns the formuln, aml I-snltpet·er nncl nitrate--

some formu1n-I. clon't rememher.

1\lr. Ln:nET.t:I:. Did he ~ < J . Y nnythin:.:- n Jonl g-unR?~ \ l r . ]31,..\LOCK. Allout zip g : n n ~ . how o mnke them out. of t u h i n ~ nntl :1 plunger.

1\lr. LumP.LF.B. Did he say something to the effect that he knew nll abonl guns?

fill', BJ..Ai.OCK. No; he told us he had n manual that explniued nll nhout gnus,a 1\lnrine mnnunl, nncl lhnt he hntl \ J a i n i n ~ i n guns, trained with guns.

i\tr. 1.-mnt::r.I\Jt. Do you remember nnyl i n ~ else thnt he saicl?1\lr. BLALOCK. Not right oiTh:uul.1\Ir. LIEIJF.r.Ea. Did he talk to Bringuicr about helping Bringuier in this orgn

uization, or just. what wns \ll(' general context of this cmwersnUon? \Vns this

just n g-eneral discussion of guerrilln wnrfnre, or did it relnte to the nct.ivilicsof Bringuier's anti-Castro organiznt.ion? ·whnl cnn you remember?

Mr. Br.,.\I.OCT-:. _He jus t asl;:ed him nhout the nnli·Cnstro orgnnizalion and nsked

him to exp1nin t to him, and he said he wns int.ereslecl in finding out hO\\' t

opernted. Re (lldn't say 1IC wnntecl to join il: He jnsl snitl he was intere::>lt.'(l in

it. Ob, n1Hl 13ringuicr g:n·e him literature, n Ouhnu newspaper und lenflcls or

booklets.Mr. L I E H B L I ~ t t . \Vas the1·e nn:r (liscussion of politics?

1\Ir. Br u.omr. Not to my recollection

.i\Ir. L I E : I l i ~ I . I > ; H , Was there any mcntion·or P1·esiclent Kennedy?

83

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Mr. BLALOCK. No, si r. I couldn't say for surE' therE' wa :« no mention of Presi

dent Kennedy. I don't think there was.Mr. LIEDELER. What did you think of Oswald ?Mr. BLALOCK. H e seemed like a 1·ery intelligent man to me. well spo ken. looked

we ll drt' 'f<ed , well groomed.Mr. LIEBEJ.Ert. Did you think anything else about him , o·r is that ahout it?1\ r·. BI.ALOCK. That is the imprrssion that I got right n the moment.Mr . Lu:nELER. Did be say anything about F1orida?Mr BLALOCK. J ust mentioned the Cuban anti-Castro organization there.Mr. LrEDELER. What did he s a ~ · about that?

1\lr. BLALOCK. I don't remember exactly, but I think he ~ a i d be bad heen there

ami he had noked into t I couldn't say for snre on that.

Mr. LtJ::DELER. Did he mention the nam e of the organization?

l\lr. BLALOCK. No, sir . No. I don't recall any name.1\lt·. LJF:nELER. Do remember heing intcr>icwed about this subject hy an

FBI ngent?

Mr. RLAUJCK. Yt>s, l'ir : I do, cluring the l l l i ~ t m n s hnliclnys.Mr . LIEDF:LER. Do you remember his name?

1\Ir. B ~ . o \ L O ~ o . si r ; I don't. All I k DOI\ is n Lieutenant r something lil;etha t.

1\Ir LJEDELER. Do you think ~ · o u would t·emE'mber hi :: nnme if I mentioned it

to you?)Jr. nL\LOCK. I nr ig-ht, or my mother might. She was lJI'P><ent.l\Ir. LJEIJELF:n. Your mother was present when you were inteniewed the

FB I ?l\lr. BLALOCK. Yes.Mr. LIEilELEn. Would it refr esh your recollection if I told you that the report

that I ha,-e of the interview thnt you had with the FBI agent indicates tb11tthe mao':« name was Kevin J. Hen-igan?

i\Ir. BLALOCK. HPrrigan? ~ o . l\'o; I don't remember that name.

l\Ir. I. EDF:LER. Do you remember ta lking to the FBI agent about Oswald's

remark concenting having been to Florida?

:\Jr. RLALOCK. No, sir; I don't remember wbnt I told the FB I agent. I don't

tcmember anything about Oswald ;:aylng-only that J think be sai d he had

been there.

:\lr. Ln:nELEn. Well, the repa r t that I ha •e here says thftt you ' ' '"'lied to remember Oswa ld mentioning something about having re<>entl ) ,:nted something ca lled the Casa ~ o s t r a C-a-s-a N-o-s-t-t·-n. Do yon rememher saying

nnything ahout that to the FBI man?

:\Jr. IlLALOCK. Y<'>', sir; I rPmemb<'r nreut ioni ug the or;::ani:r.ati on, hnlcouldn t reme mber the name. Th nt orgnnl?:ntion was mentioned in the Cli ll

rersation with Carlos Bringuier an<l Har•ey Oswald.~ [ r LIEDELEil. t WIIS?

~ I r BLALOCK. I believe SO.l\ r. LTEUELEn. Do yon remember tllfit it wus Oswald who men t ioned it?i\lr. Br.ar.ocK. I don't rc•member which one mentionecl it first.

l\lr. LmnELEn. And it was U(•ntioned as being a Cuban organization in

Florida? Is that your recollection?Mr . IlLALOCK. Yes. si r; I thin ' thnt is th<' name the.v mentioned. It coulcl

be something s imilar. I know I got this J\Iafia name mixed ttll with a Cubanorganization n Ulle.

i\Ir. LIEDEJ.En. Well, yon know that that name that I JUSt mentioned , Casa

Nostra, il vNy similar to the Co >a Nostra. Do you tb.ink yon may ha Ye beenconfused at the time you talked with him?

1\Ir. BLALOCK. Well, I meant the Cuban organiwtion. I may hn>e said the

:\la.fia, the Cosa Nostra.Mr. LIEnELER. You may ba•e IL>ed that name?Mr. BLALOCK . But I meant the Cuban - -

Mr. LrEDEL F:R. Yon meant some Anti-Cast ro Cuban organization?Mr. BLALOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEJJELER. So the best you can recall, Oswald didn't say that be badrecently 1isited someone In the Cosa Nostra?

84

1\fr. BLAT.OCK. No, s ir . Yes , sir.~ t r . LrEBf:LF:R. But you do recall ':Ort of vaguely thnt Oswald did say that

h<' hac been in Florida and h cc had visi tl<l an ~ u t i - C a Cuban organization

there?1\fr. BLALOCK. Yes, sir; I do.:'lfr. LIEDELER. Can you r cc>member anytl1ing elsP nhout this Incident in the

store that day when Oswalrl came in?Mr. BLALOCK. Oh. he said he lived on Magazine Street.:\Ir . Ln:RELF:R. Did be give h is exact add ress to you? Do you remember?

1\tr. BLALOCK. T don't J)elieYe be ga>e his exact address, but I couldn 't say

for ':Ure.~ I r . LU:D ELER. Did he 'ay anything about whether he was working or not ,

whether be bad a job?Mr. BJ .ALOCK. I don't remember if he said nnything about hi ' j ob.l\Tr. LIEDELER. Did he tcc>ll you anything about hi s background? Did be say

he was from Kew Orleans or anything about that?Mr. Br.ALOCK. sir; I don't remember anythi ng about that.

Mr. LIEDELF:R. Can you think of a n ; ~ t b i n g else that happened?

~ r . BI.ALOCJL Philip Geraci and I started f o l l o w i n ~ r him home after weboth left the store. O s ~ > a l r l . Ph ilip and I both left the store about the same

time. We ;:tarted to follow Oswald to his bou se just out of c·urios ity . and Irecollect thnt Oswald sa id he would give I L ~ his Marine manual if we eve r

c:une bucl;, if we contacted him

1\fr. LIEBET,ER. T hat be woulrl gi'l'e you the Marine manna if you snw each

•lther at the store again?~ f r . Br.ALoCI<. At the store or ju <t saw each otbe1·, if we would contact him

nutl get it, we could bnYe it. If he saw us a ~ t a i n , he would give it to us.

Mr. LJ ERELER. Huw lon l did you continue to fol low him home? Did youjust wall; ou t and 1>alk down the st reet with hi m, or did you ':ort of shadow

him r

Mr. BLALOCK. Ko, si r. We walked out the door. W e both started differentdirections, and Philip and I sa id. Why don't we follow him and get the Marine

manual now. uothing else to do." We sta rt ed to go to the corne r, and we didn't

see him, so we went on our way.Mr. LIEBELF:R. Did you ('ver see the Marine manual?

Mr. BLALOCK. 1\'o, si r ; I d idn 't.Mr . LIEBEJ.ER. Did you e1·er talk to :'llr. Uriuguier again after that?

i\Ir . BLALOCK. ~ 0 . sir.:'llr. LIEDF:LER. You never ':aw Car los a ~ r a i n until just t oda y -

)lr. BLALOCK. Ko, si r.~ l r . LIEDELER. Whe.n you saw him r·ome out of this room and leaYe the building?

Mr. BLALOCK. Yes, sir.~ I r LrEDELER. Are you and Ph il ip ~ o o d f r i e n d : ~ ?

RLALOCK. I wou ldn 't say real close friends, hut we are friends.

l\fr. LIEnF.LER. Did you talk a i.Jout this inciucnt or talk about Oswald at all

after tll is time but prior to the a s ~ a s s i n a t i o n '/1\'[r. B LALOVK. 1\o . >:lr; I <on't believe we tl id. We tnlked about the Cuban

Student Organization.1\fr. LTEDET t:Jt. \\· Pre you aware of the fact that Oswald was subsequently

arrested here in Kew Orleans in connc<"tion wi th his aclil'ity on behalf of the

Fair P iny for Cuba Committee'l\Ir. BLA .OCK. 1\o; I didn't know about tbut un t il after Ute assassination.

LlF.RELER. You didn't· bear Oswalrl delmte C:lrlos on the radio progra 1\lr. BLALOCK. 1\'o, sir.Mr. Ln;nF.LER. Or you didn't see Oswald on television?

i\Ir. BLALOCK. ).'o, >:ir. I m i ~ b t ha ve. I ju st don't remember it

1\lr. LIEDELF:R. Did Philip sny a n y t h i n ~ t about h u v i n ~ r : ~ e e n these things?

Mr. BLALO CK. ).'ot to me he didn ' t.Mr. LrEnE J.ER. So you neyer had any real disr:u;:sions. as far as you remember,

with Philip about Oswald until the tim e of til<' assassinntion? Is tbut corre ct?

Mr. BLALO CK. T ha t is correct.

85



Mr. LIEBELER. You must haYe talked to Philip about Oswald after the

assass ination.

Mr . I3LALOOK. Yes.Mr . L:rrnELER Did you recall to ea ch other and discuss with each other the

meeting that you had with Oswa ld in the s tor e on Decatur Street at that time?:\:lr. Br.ALOCK. I think I was the one tha t recognized him. I called it to

PbiJlp's at tent ion, and the next day at school he said, "Yes, tha t is the man

we met a t the store." I recog-nized Oswa ld late one night when T was ju st

a bou t going to bed. I told my " I went uptow n a nd met tha t man up

there."

1\fr. LIEnELER This was shor tly aft er the assas 'in a tion?Mr . BLALOCK. Yes ; during the ti me they didn 't ha,·e a ny shows bu t the

funeral anMr. LIEDELER [Exhib iti ng pboto g:raph to witness.] Let me sh ow you a pic

t ure tha t has been marked as Ex hi bi t 1 to the a ffid a-.it of J e '."e J . Gamerta ken a t New Orleans, April 6, 1964. nnd I ask you if you recognize theindiYd ual portrayed in tl1at pictur e.

Mr. BLALOCK. Yes, sir ; I recognize him .Mr. LIERELER. And do you r{CO-Tlize him as the mun yo u met in the sto r e

that da y ?Mr. BLALocK. Yes, sir ; Lee Han ey Oswa ld .Mr. LIEnELER. Ca n you th ink of anyth ing else now a bout your conta ct with

Oswal d, or can yo u thi nk of nny th ing else that you lmow about h im tha t Ihaven' t a slted you about and you thinlt the Commi ssion should kno\\' abo nt ?

i\Ir. BLALocK. I can't think of any thin g e lse.Mr . LlEJJEI.ER. I don t have any other ques tions. f you can ' t th ink of

any thl.ug else, we will termina te the deposition. On behalf of the Commission,I wnnt to tbank you very much.

TESTIMONY OF VINCENT T LThe tes timony of Vincent T. Lee was taken a t 1 :30 p.m., o n April 17, 1964, a t

the U.S. cour th ouse, Foley Square, New York, N.Y . by Messrs. J. Lee Rankin,

General Counse l, and Wesley J. Llebeler , as sista n t counse l of the PT esident 'sCommis sion. Vin cent T. Lee was accompanied by his attorney, Stanley F aulkner.

Vincent T. Lee, having duly affirmed, was examined and test ified aR f ollows :Mr . R ANKIN . Mr. Lee, thi s depositi on is being taken by the Commission under

the a uthori ty of Executive Order No. 11130 and jo int resolution of the Cong-ressNo. 137. l\Iy nnm.e is J. Lee Rankin . I nm general counsel for the C ormnis:<ion.Mr. Liebeler is as sociated with me in this work. You have a right to have acopy of your testimony if you wish to pay for i t and you may ask the reporters tomuke such arrangements.

During the ex-amination you have a right to ha ve counsel, which you havehere, and counsel may object to any of the que stions. At the close of the examina tion by myself, If counsel wishes to ask you questions to clarify or make clear

any particular part of your testimony or corre ct It, if you wish to call a nythingto his attention, why, he is free to do that.

Where do you live, Mr. Lee ?

Mr . LEE. 37% St . Mark 's Pla ce, New York City.

Mr. RA NKIN . You are entitled und er the rul es of the Commiss ion to 3 da ys'

notice, and I assume s ince you are here you are willing to waive that and goahead with the deposition.

l t1r. LEE. Yes .

Mr . RANKIN . Do you have an official conn ection with the Fair Play forCuba Committee?

1\Ir. LEE. The Fair Play for Cuba Committee Is no longer a functioningorganization.

86

Mr. RAN KrN . Did you a to ne t ime have such a connection ?

Mr . LEE. Yes; I did .1\lr. R ANKl N. During what period ?1\:lr. LEE. F rom the yea r of 1963-yes, las t yea r .

Mr . R aN JCIN. Wh en was i t closed up ?Mr . LEE. OfficiallY the office wen t out of exi stence Decen1ber 1963.

Mr. R ANKIN. I n 1963?l\lr. LEE. December 1963. Ev iction notice was ser Ycd a nd the o ffice was closed.

l\I r. RaNKIN. Did you ha> e some commu nications with Lee H a n ·ey Oswald ?

·l\lr. LEE. Yes; I did .l\lr. R ANKIN. H a-.e you made a search of you r files fo r all comm unicat ions

that you had with him?Mr. LEE. Upon being commun ica ted with by the Feder al agents. fr om the

Fede ral Bureau of TnYestiga tion. at thei r behest I made nn exhausting sea rch

throughout the whole F a ir Pl ay offices fo r a ny and all commun ications which

were there, and find ing cer tai n commu nications 1 tu rned them o-.er to the

F ederal age nts. pa rtic ula rly F ederal Agent Kennedy. in ea rly December 1963.

l\lr. RANK IN. Wben did you make that sea rch ?1\lr. Lr:E. Wi thi n a day or two af ter bein g contacted by the F ederal agents.Mr. R AN KIN. Ca n you tell us the approximate date of that con tact?

Mr . LEE. I beli e-.e it was the first week of Decembe r .

Mr. RANKIN . 1963?1\Ir. LEE. 1963, yes. I am not positivE>. I am pret ty sur e it w as somewhere

ar ound tha t time .Mr . RANK IN. W as that sear ch made by y ou persona lly?

Mr. LEE . Yes, sir.1\:lr. RA NXJ N. Wa s it a thorough and complete sea rch ?

Mr. LEE. Well , I went thro'ugh ever y scr ap of pape r down to the last li ttle~ c r a p beh ind the desk and under radi ators an d In i n e t ~ and in drawers and

under desk blotters and e,·ery possible conceiva ble place any piece of paper

mig ht haYe been stored or fa ll en to and l aid do'lm or any th ing else.

Mr . RA NKI N. So you a re f i eMr . LEE .d.s fa r as I knO\\' I went through every- to the best of my knowledge

I went th rough ever ything I could find and everything t11at I found I tu r ned

ove r to the a gen ts af terwa rds, after h aving copies made.Mr. R AN KI N. D id you or anybody on behalf of you r committee have any

or al con1 mun ica tions with L ee H arvey Oswald that you know of ?1\lr. LEE. T o mr knowl edge there was neYer any suc h comm uni cation. I can't

eYe r r emember eve r h aving such communication myself . I don't know that

anybody else did. tha t I ba -.e kno\\'11 has ever men tioned such n thi ng

to me.(Document ma rked Le > Exh ihit No 1. )l\lr. RA NK IN . I han d you Exhibit Ko. l and as.k you if tha t is a letter that you

or your commi ttee received fr om L ee H a n ·ey Oswald ?Mr. LEE. Th is looks very much like UCh a letter . sir.1\Ir. RA NK IN. Dill yo n receive it near the dat e tha t it bea r s?Mr . LEE. Ther e is not a date--i t is not dn terl. Th iR pnrfkula r letter is not

date d. E vid.ently her e on the bottom is a no tnt iou wh ich is made. '.rhiR letterr equests tha t the organiza tion send some li tera tu re which the organ ization

had publ;shed and t here is a notation on th e bottom which sa:>s the materi al

was sen t. t says "Sent 4/19/63," wh ich I assume was quite 'some ti me ago.I can r emember when people wrote in, we bad many, ma ny communications

from many parts of the coun try, and when they asked for something we would

sen d it to them and we would ma rk the thing "Sent so and so ," so we wouldknow the communication bad been ans wered nn l what bad bee n done about i t.

Mr . R A::-<KJN. Do you know whether that notation "Sent 4/ 19/63" and alsothe circlin g of the "50" was done by you?

Ur . LEE. Th is is doubtful because at tha t t i l t H let's see, at tha t time I was

not in the Ne"' York office. I was out on a national to ur , I believe I was onthe west cons t a t tha t t ime . We have ha d other people coming in to volunteerto, you know, wr ap packages and address envelopes and th ings like thatcome in for an hour or two, and go on a bout their bus iness , whate,·er i t is:

87



TESTll'tiONY OF PWLIP GERACI III

The testimony of Phl·llp Geraci III, accompanied by his mother, was taken on

April 7-8, 1964, at the Old Civil Courts Building, Royal and Conti Streets, New

Orleans, La., by Mr. Wesley J. Lleheler, assistant counsel t the Pre s ident'sCommission.

(Reporter's Note : The witness, Philip Gerael, was accompanied Into the hearIng room by his mother. )

PhUip Geraci, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

follows:

Mr . Ln:IIELEB. My name is Wesley J . Llebeler. J am a member of the legal

sts1r of the President's Commission Investigating the assassination of President

Kennedy. Staff members have been authorized to take the testimony of wit

nesses by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to the Commission by

Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29, 1063, n.nd joint resolution ofCongress No. 137.

I understand that Mr. Lee Rnnkln wrote you a letter last week In which hetold you that I would contsct you, did he not?

Mr. GEB.AOI. A letter? No.Mr . LIEBELEB. You did not receive a letter from 1\lr. Ra.nkln?

Mrs . GERACI. Would you please give us one. We would Uke to have It to keep.Mr . GERAci. Somebody said they sent one.

Mr. LIEBELEB. You didn't rec eive It ?Mr . GEBA.CI. No.

Mr s. GEBAOL We did not receive it.Mr . LIEBEIE t Now I think In point of fact that ls right. I think that the de

ciBion to take your te stimony was made subsequent to the time that the letters

were sent out to other witnesses. Now you are

Mr s. GERACI. May I make a statement before we go any tnrtber?Mr. LIEBELER . Let the record Indicate that Mrs. Geraci Is tn the bearing room

at her request to assist her son n.nd give moral support.Mrs . GERAci. And we want no publicity at all, please.Mr . Ln:IIELEB. We have already given to the reporters the names t some t

the wit nesses who came In , but we have already been advised that you did not

want any publicity at this point, and we did not give your name to the newspaper reporter or make any statement about Philip's appearance here.

Mr . GEB.Act. Does that mean I can't tell anyone abo ut It?

Mr. Lu:BELER. That is something you can settle among yourselves.

Mr. GEB.ACI. I told everybody I went to a doc tor's appointment this evening.Mr. LIEBELE t. [Handing documents to witness) Now I want to give youR copyt the Joint Resolution t Congress and t the Executive order that I have j ust

referred to, and also of the Rules of Practice adopted by the Commission concerning th e taking of testimony of witnesses. Those rules provide that technically you are entitled to 3 da ys' notice before you appear to have your testimony

ta ken, bnt you are entitled to wal'l"e that notice. and I assume that, since you arehere, you would be . wl llng to waive it with regard to the testimony . Ia that

right, Pblllp?

Mr . GER.Act. l don't know.Mrs. GEB.Acr. Yes. Well, th ey did not notify us 3 days ahead of time, but thatIs all right. We are here. They ca lled yes terday.

Mr . LIEBELE l. You have Indicated that you are willing to go ahead with the

testimony instead at waiting for the 3 days' notice?

(Mrs. Geraci nodded assent.)Mr . L EBELER. Phillp, would you state your full name f or the record, please?

Mr. GERACI. Philip Geraci, the Third.

Mr . LrEnELEB. What Is your address?

Mr. GERACI. 2201 Green Acres Road .Mr. LIEBELES. New Orleans?

Mr. GESACI. Metairie.

Mr. L IEBELE.R. When were you born?

Mr. GERACI. February 21, 1948.

74

Mr. LIEBELE.R. So you are now ab out 10 yE'nrs old or 17 yea rs old ?1\fr. GERACI. Yes . Well. I am 16.Mr . LIEuELE t. Do you go to ~ c h o o l ?Mr . GER.Aoi. Yes, si r.Mr. LIEBELEB. Where ?Mr. GERACI . East Jefferson High School.Mr. LIEDELER. And you are what? a jun ior thP r£ now, or a senior ?Mr . GERACI . No, sophomore, lOth grade.

Mr . Ln:IIELES. l Oth grade. Do you know a man by the nome t Car los

Brlngu1er 7Mr. GEBA CI. Yes, si r .

Mr. Ln:IIELER. Wh en did you first meet him ?Mr. GERACI. Well, this wa s summer, last summer , some place a round th e be

ginning o It, and- you want me to tell you everything about It?Mr. LIEBF:LER. Yes.1\fr. GERAOT. Well, J was down there with a friend. [Addressing mother.)

Do you th ink I should give his name?

(Mrs. Geraci nodded assent.)

Mr . LIEBELER . Please do. You wer e clown where?

Mr. GERACI. D<>wn there In New OrlennR, I men n on Cun ni Street. We bnd togo to some radio shop. t wns Bill Dwy('r. T bnt Is a fri end. And we weredown there and we wanted to go In radio shops and E Ve rything, so 1 saw- going

down the re I saw. looking to the side, tha t thr•y had n Raying Casa noca ,"and I took Spanish in school, so I waR lnterestE'd, a nd J went in there a nd- well ,he was a little reluctan t , but we went anyway.

Mr . LrEBELER . Your friend was a littlE' reluctant?

Mr . GERACI. Yes, a little bit. He didn 't get mixer UJ In th is o r anything. Andthen, well , when we WE're In the re, we looked around n little at e\·erything, thE'n

I asked the man there--1 didn't know it wns C'nrlos flrlnguier tben-1 asked himwas he a Cuban. He said yes , he was an exile. and every thing, you know. I

asked him a few tblngs, I guE'SS-I don't know exa<'tly wha t you know, just nlittle conversation like. ThE'n I nRk him was there h i n g tha t I as an American could do. He said. well, he didn't know. to romE bnck Inter. You know, heacted as though maybe--like- -ju st like he just didn't want me to help or something Ike that , I guess. so we left anrl went home, ami that was lt.

Mr. LIEBELER. And when dhl you see him ngnln, if you did ? You did see himagain, did n't you?

Mr. GERAor. Yell.Mr. LIEDE .E t. When ?Mr. GERACI. I don 't rememher wht>n . I r('rut>mbt>r I Rnw him n few times, I

couldn't exactly suy how nu1ny, hnt I went bark another time when I was intown, I stOP )ed otr and saw him, ancl I snw him another t ime. Th en I think it

was about the fourth time that I wns there that I saw Lee Harvey Oswald·.Mr. LTERELER. Now before we get to that. did you ever raise any money for ·

Cnrlos' act ivities?

Mr. G&B-\01. Not until the th ird ti me.Mr. Ln::nEr.F.n. What happened?

Mr. GERACI. No; \Wilt. C0111e to think of It , r think It about. the fifth timethat I saw O lwnhl; Rometh lng lik e thnt. 1 rPmember I went ba ck- It was

abou t the third ti me- -after nHking hlm-1 nsked him, "D r you think it Is pas·slble to rni IE rlonntlons? Ami hl' < lid, \ \ 't ' l l . It p < > H ~ I h And he

showed me these little yellow slips, sort of like yt>llow, and they were Ikereceipts If you pnld, nnd he Mid I could get tbem-you kno w If I wanted to,I could, you know, go. nnd he could give th t>m ttl ml', nnd go a nd get donationsand give tbe people this receipt and bring the money back to him.

Mr : LIEBEI.Ea . So die you take some of the receipts?

Mr . GERACI . Yes.1\Ir. LtEnELEn. Ancl did you get sowe money?Mr . GERACI. Yes.1\Ir. LIEBELER. And you ga \·e It to Ca rlos?

Mr . GERAct. Yes; It was nbont $10.Mr. LIEBELER. And you turned that money over to him?

7fi

--- ~ . _ ____________ ________________



Mr . GERACI. Yes, sir.

1\Ir. LrEBELF.n. Now , is It correct that on the day that you cnme Into the Casu

Rocn to give thlt< mon 'y to Carlos thnt you met Lee Oswnld?

Mr . GI;RAci. I don't know If I turned In th e money or not. No; I don't think

I turned lu money, but I couldn' t be sure. I remember I went there, and thnt

Is the time the lust guy, Vance Blalock, cam e olong with me. I t wa s hi s first

tim e nnd everything. And we went in t h e r ~ mlgiJt have tu rned it In, I am

not too sure. Mnybe I did; maybe I didn't. I can't remember too much , but

I was in there anyway ta lking to him and th at Is when I me t him .

Mr . LIEBELER. Th at is when you met Oswald ?

1\Ir. GERACI. Yes; you want me to tell all thot?

Mr . LlEBELER. Yes; tell me all the circ umstances of how O sw nl d-Mr . GERACI. Everything I know ?

Mr . LIEDELER. Met you and everything you know about It, what the conve rsation wa s, who was there.

Mr. GERACI. Well , we w e r ~ V n n c e and me went In there, Vance nod I, we

wi nt Into the re , I Introdu ced Van ce to Carlo s, and Ca rlos st arted talking to himabout, you know, freedom nnd all th a t. democracy nod el"erythlng. Then lat eron while we were ta lking, Lee Oswald came In, yon kuow, while we we re ta lk·

lng, an d be cnrue in n littl e while Inte r. He was by hlmsel and. he seemed ali tlle nervous. I remember he was dr essed just like ln tbnt picture th ere shows.

[lndicutlng photograph.]

llr. LIEBELER. Yon are re ferring to a picture here on the table?llr. GERACI. Yes, si r; well he wa s dr essed something lik e tbot

l\ r. LrEBELER. Which has previously been marked as Exhibit 1 to t.he affidavit

o Je sse J. Gn rner. I show you that picture . [Ex hlbltlug photogra ph to witness.]

You sn y Lee was dre ssed something like tl t:ol when you met him?

Mr . GERACI. Yes; you know, he had on n tle and a shirt, short s leeved shirt,

and so rt of like dress pan ts . I don't know the color of them, but they were sort

t like pants, just about as much ns th is. [In dieating photograph.]

Ur . LlEnELER. Do you recognize that indlvldunlln the pictu re ns being the m:mthat you saw in the store that day?

l\ r. GERACI. Well, tell you the troth, when I first heard about it in the papers

and on U1e TV, I didn ' t recognize him . See, I f orgot tha,t I met thi s guy overthere, you know, I forgot about it, and 1 t h o u ~ h t I clidn't meet him . I t wa sn 't

until th e FRI mnn came to my house a nd he showell me a pic tu re of h im when

be wns fir st under a r rest. nud he got a rr es ted in August, the 4th I think.

l\lr. l.IEDEI.F.R. H e showed you a picture th at bad been tak en of Lee wbe.n he

had been under arrest here in New Orleans?

Mr . GERACI. Yes: It was one of those th ings with lhree things, showing him

rom tl e front, the side, and his faN'.Mr. Lu:nEJ.ER. Did you then recognize the man in the picture that they showed

yOU OS heing thP man tha t you met in the sto re tbnt day?

Mr . GERACI. WPll, you seP, I dl<ln t exactl y recogn ize him maybe, but nnywny

I was pretty ~ u r c It was b.im though. He so ld- he showed me thnt and sn ld," Do you E'l"Pr rem ember an · m a r l n then I remembered therP wns n guy

who wns d r e s ~ < e c somPth lng like thn t who was nn ex-marine who came in, nnd

hP llld hnve a fuuny nnme, you know, like J.ec. It's a tlttte unusual, it' s k ind ofrllre, nncl I remembered the lnst nam e was n little hnrd , so it just fits that that

wns him .lllr . I . m n t o J . ~ Now wbnt kind· o conversntlons dlrl you hnve with this fellow

or whnt dlcl yuu tn lk nbout?

Mr . GERACI. Well, flr s t Mr . L rEDELER. As I understnncl it now, there were this mnrin e, Lee Oswald,

a nd Cur ios, and Vance Blalock nod yourself. Is tha t right?

1\lr. GERACI . Yes, si r .Jllr. LIEDELER Wns there nnybody else th ere?

1\fr. GERACI. Well , while we were talking, thi s man came up. H e was In n

big t ru ck, some hlg tr uck. I ne, ·er lookP<l n t it closely. He came np and stoppe rt,nod th e mnn rushed iu , and he was Wl:aring- well, be was wearing one or

a cap like you see them wearing ove r In England . I don't knowwhat ki nd. It is, but anyway It Is th e kind that truckdrlvers wear, I guess, and

76

be looked kind of Spanish. Maybe he was a Cuban exil e. He was k ind of tn t,and be ca me In and showed Car los this broken radio t bnt he had, so Ca rlosle tl and he star ted flxlng tlw rndto and IPft us In tnlk to o u rs IVE fl, L<'e nod me

nod mr friend . Well, hi the nuly ot her pe rson I know tha t came ln . I

don't know if be knew wha t was going on .

Mr. LIEDELER. Now tell us the ronl"ersn tlon tha t you nod r,ee nnd Van ce and

Carl os had. th e best yon can re call it.

Mr. GERACI . Well, Ca rlos nod me and Vnnce were klncl of talking nmong our

selves. and he ca me In and sa id, "E xcuse me," and, you know, he acted n little

nervous and things like that. He asked, " Is th is the Ctibnn headquar ters, Cuban

exile headquarters?" And , "Are you a Cuban exile?" You know, the way Iacted when I flrst went lh th ere. J ust asked him a few questions, was he a

_ . Quban exile, and Carlos sa id yes . H e asked him some questions like was he

connected with the Cosa Nostra , L n Cos Nostra .

Mr . LIEBELEB. Who asked tha t?

Mr . GERACI . Oswa ld ; he a sked that .

Mr . LIEBELEB. Of Carlos?

Mr . GERACI . Yes ; and Car los said no, he wasn ' t . Oswald then naked where

was hi s headquarters - I n Mlnml? And C'arlos snld tt>s : and he sa id-let 's then Oswald asked. l'ald something like, I t Is kind or ex(' \tlng meeting

someone"- don't know I he snld exciting- but he expri'SSPd something like

that. H e sold , yon know, he expressed wondt>r or something like that nt meetlog somebody who was a rl'al Cuban exile, you know, someone who Is r eally

trying to do som ething to help tree Cuba and all that. He didn t re ally snymuch. In the papers th ey said he t ried to j oin nnd all that. That mu st have

been Inter; because this wa &--

Mr . LIEoELEB. He didn't do that when you were there?

Mr . GERAO. No. This was his fi rs t v ls tt. As tar as 1 ca n make out, It must

have been , and he as ked a ew questions like that. Car los ju st an swe red rea lsimply and all that, be didn't go Into any big speeches, you know, w ith the m,like he d d or me and Vance, ju st answe red his questions s imply. Th en when

the man cam e In with the broken rad io, Ca rlos lett, nod that left Oswald, me ,

and Vance by ourselvee.

Th en , well , we nsk ed - )·ou know, we were a little Interested In glll'rrilla

wnr are ourse lves and th ings like that, and he snid, well , hr wns nn ex-ma rin E',

said he was In the Marines on<'e. He said he lear ned n li ttle bit about that

stu ', a nd be said a ew things about guerrllla wa rfare I remember, Jtke he

said th e wa y to derail a t rain was to wrap chain a round thE' ties of the tr ack

and then lock It with a padlock nnd the train would de ra il. He said the thinghe lik ed best o nil woe IE'arnlng how to blow up the Huey P. Long Bridge. H e

said yoo pu t explosll"e nt ench end on the banks and blow It up, and thatlea ves the one column standi ng. And he so ld how to make a homemade gun

and how to make gunp owder, homemade ~ u n p H e just went Into those

real simply. He didn't rea lly , you know, tell us how to do It or an ything, just

said like l you wont to make a homemade gun, you know, do so me thing t k ~you know , tbe . thlng you pull back [demonst ro tlng] nnd It goes forward, Jtke

on doe t th e pinball machines. He just said something like tha t. He didn treally h:ito deta il or anything. We didn 't a sk blm. And by t.bls ti me Car loscame back f rom the other gnr, nnd come bock, nnd he ltstenlng, and, well ,

th at Is a bout all .Ob , there was one Important t h i n ~ : Oawn td snlcl smurthl ng like that he l10d

a military mnnunl rom when be wns In the Marines, nod hi' he would giveIt to me, and I sold, "T hnt Is oll r l ~ : Yo u don"t hn, ·p to. You cnu gl\·e Itto Ca r los.'' He 811id, "WPII , OK. he will ~ h · e it to C'nr lns next tl111e h P <O IIIPs. "

And a ter tbat- well, everybody left . Tha t Is as t a r as I can make out.

Mr . LIEnELER. Do you remember- -Mr . GERAC I. And he said he was going to <'Orne ba Ck la te r and give Car los

thls military ma nual from when be was In the Ma rines.Mr. LIEBELER . And was be going to give this to Carlos for Carlos' benefit, or

was he--Mr . Gr:B.ACI. For Carlos' benefit, I guess , Carlos' or the Cuban exiles'.

77

f o ~ \ vtd liLA ';J



Mr. E n ~ : Dill yon la•ur nny conversutl on uhout tralnln ( gul'rrlllas to

oppose Cas t ro?

Mr. GERACI. No. He didn't sny nn.rthing about being an exr1ert rUle shooter,nev er sa id an ything nbout going' to Russin or join ing or training or anything

Ike that.Mr . LIEBELER . ·w ell , wns there n conversntl on conce rning the trnlning of anti

Castro tr oopH or guerrillas to oppose Cost rn?

Mr. GERACI. No; that must ha\"e been later , may be when be came bock someother tlme.

Mr. LIEBELEB. Now were you prpsent at a li times while Oswa ld was there?

Mr. GERACI. We got there before he did an d we left at the same time be did .Mr . LIEOELEB. So, as far as you know, there wouldn't ha ve been ony oppor-

tunity t r Oswald and Carlos to taLk am ong themselves where you wouldn thave beard wbnt they so ld ?

Mr. GERACI. That is right; because we were the re all the time.Mr. LIEBELER . And yon ha \·e no recoli eetion that Oswald told Ca rlo s that he

wonted to he lp train anti-Castro guerrillas to fight again st Castro?

Mr . GERACI. None at al l ; none thot I remember.Mr. LlEBELER . All right. Now wbnt wos Oswa ld going to bring thi < mn rl ne

book back fo r ?Mr. GERACI. Well , I guess to give to Ca rlos to help him out or l n g .

FirAt he was going to gh·e It to me and Van ce. I guess be wanted us to blow

up the bridge or something . I don't know. We snld no ; and so he sa id, "OK.I will gh ·e it to Ca rlos," yon know, becnuse otter ali Cnrlos- I guess be coulduse it better thou we could , you know, blow up bridges In Cuba or something ,and I gue ss he was ju st going to give it to him so be could learn some st utr

fr om it . r ·wouldn't know.

Mr. LIEDELER. Now when you lef t the store did you tr y to follow Oswald

at all?

Mr. GERACI. Well , we had some though t about lt. Wh en be left, he was going

to go down- be crossed Canal Street and he woR - he kept on going thot way, Ithink on St. Charles or Cioiborne-wa y down there near the end-w hich one iscloser to the river? St . Cho rl es?

Mr. LIEB ELER. I om not famili a r with New Orleans, so I get them mixed up .

Mr . GERACI. t mus t ha ve been St. Charles he went down, nnd Vnnce sold. " Hey ,let's follow hi m, see wh ere he Jives." He told ns whe re he Jived, bu t the way

he to ld us the addr ss

Mr . LIEBEI.ER. You don't know what It was?

Mr. GERACI. Wheu the FBI man came by my house thot da y, he as ked me, nnd

I could just bare ly remember it. I re member it was to the left of Conal Street.t was Magazi ne Street.

LIEBELER . 1\lagozine Street? 1Wbat number ?

Mr. GERACI. Well , I remembered the number a little. I couldn't remember italtogether, hut I r emember

ol\fr. LIEoELER. Do you remember that h e hod told you the number?

Mr. GERACI. Yes; ond I could -I had n few- I mea n I had a little recollection

obout whnt It wos, li ke it was a big number sort of lik e and had two zeros In

i t or Aomethl ug. I don't even remember. Jt seemed that his number dld ha vethat. We decided-we th oug ht ma ybe we can follow him for fun, but we decided no, we had bet ter not, yon know, because it was not good or an ything, so

we ju st went up Cnnal Street.lllr. LrEDELER. Do you remember whether Oswald sa id any thin g abou t ha ving

been In Florida?Mr . GERACI. In Florida?

Mr. LIEBELEB . Yes.

Mr . GEBAcr. I am not too su re about that.

Mr. LIEBELER . You don 't remember one way or the other whetber- -

Mr. GERACI. T he only thing I remember ab out Florida Is when he asked wash eadquarters dow n th ere . H e could have, but I don' t know.

Mr. LIEBELER . Now did you ever see Os wald a f ter tho t?

Mr. GERACI. No; tha t was the last time; firs t a nd last .

Mr. LIEBELER. H ow about Carlos? Did you see btm after that?

78

Mr. GERACI. Yes. Thn t time when we round out thnt it w nR Oswa ld who killed

him , well, th en I went the re. you know, to g 't th ln.:s s t r n l ~ h t l n c d ou t nud ta lk

with Curios a little nhnn t him, yon kn ow.lllr. LrEnEr.En. You wl'nt bock nnd tnlked with Corlos. ab out thi s meeting with

Oawnld, ot ter th e assnsslnntl on? Is that right ?l\Ir. GERACI. Yes .Mr . r,u;;nEt . R no yon r 'nletnber whe the r yon snw Cnrlos behvcen the tlme

that you met Oswald nnd the nssossinatlon?

Mr . GERACI. Corl os?

Mr. LrEDELEB . Yes.llfr. GEDACI. Not th nt I remember.

Mr . J IEnELER . Can you t 'll us app r oximately wbt'n it wa s that you met w a l dWas it J u ly or August?

Mr . GERACI. Well, lns t tim e th e FBI man rn me. l r R t i m a round la te J uly .r couldn't remeut ber now , so I wi ll just s tick with lnt1 .July. Thnt 'lt>ems tos tick pret ty Vnn<'e la id the snme thing hhnRclf whl'n the Fni man questioned him , so r nm pretty sure it was between late Jul y- middle J uly to lateJuly.

Mr . LIEBELER . D id you form any opi nion n bout Oswald when you met him ?

Mr. GERACI . When I me t him?

Mr . LIEDELER. Yes. Whnt dill you think of hiru 'l

l\fr. GERACI. Wt>ii, whPn h ' went in there, I noticed he wos a little nervous.

Mr. Tn: nEt.ER How rlld he Ahow his n e r v o m m e ~ s Do you remember?

llfr. GERACI. Wl'li. the wa.r he talked, you know . Well, you know, the way hetal ked J gtli'SA, kind of, you know, searching nround for words nod all that,ond I rem ember be lea nerl on th e ta ble, nnrl I remember r pndin g once tha t, youknow, if you exert some pbys ienl exe rtion, It k ind or helps you tend to calm down

or so mething like tbnt. Anyway , I could t ' ll by the wa y be wns leaning on

th e tahle that mnybe he wos \ O U ~ .1\fr. J, reur::t.ER. Othpr thnn thi" v o n s n e H ~ . rlid you form any other opinion

about It ?

Mr . 0ERA CI. Not particula rly.

l\Ir. LIEBEr.ER. D id he appea r to be an intell igent pt>rson?

Mr . GERA CI. In telligent person?

Mr. LIEB EI.ER. Yes.

llfr. GERACI. Sort of. H e didn' t oppPar s tupid or any th ing Uke that . He

seemed OK. you know. He did n t seem like a Communist. Seemed like he justwanted to, you kn ow, help out too, sort of.

Mr . LIEBELER. D id you sub <eqnentl y learn t hat Oswald wns a rrested by the

New Orl ean s Pollee Depor t ment for rl ist.ribu ting Fair Play for Cuba Committee

leaflets?

Mr . GERACI. I didn't know that until after he k illed KE'ntJedy an d it was inthe papers.

Mr . LIERELER. You didn 't hea r it?

Mr. GERACI . On the radio?

Mr. f.IEB ELE R On lh l' rn1ll0 or li'IP'I'i <inn.

.Mr. GERACI . No.Mr. LrEnELER. Do you thiuk :rou hn\ ·e now to ld us everything that you cn n

remembe r nbout this meeting you had wi th Osw nld and Carlos? Is th ere any - · rbl ng l.'lse that you can think of?

Mr . GERACr. No. There might be one thing. Cnr los. wh en e talked to me

and Vonce ond my f r iend. Hill Dwyer. tlt ' firs t t ime. you know, he made speechesa nd nil th at. When he met bim- I don 't know- s eemed like maybe be didn 'twant him or something. r om not too sur e.

Mr . LIERELER . didn 't seem to open up to Oswa ld ?

Mr . GERACI. T hat Is righ t . Be opened up enough, you know, but he did n tgive him an y spe(>{'h 's or anythi ng like thnt.

Mr . LIEIIELEB. If you can think of anything else that occur red , we would Uketo ba ve you te ll us.

GERACI. OK.

Mr . LJEBELER. t you can ' t , I don 't have nny oth er questions.

79

- - - - - - --



••Mr. G ~ : I I A C I , Tle did HCCl l l ku-T guess w did seem l ike ti le type who wns u

little nntiHtx:lnl.

Mr. r ~ u : m : u : n . He cllcln't. seem to he too friendly?

Mr. GF.IlACI. ~ T o . lie ~ c e u w c l friendly. 1 menu, he seemt:d friendly, ron know,

hut IH.'--mU,I'im lilw lit} clltln't. i l l l l 'e e n o n ~ h CXJtt•rleuce with people, :;ort of. lip

Bcemed friendly thong-h. Tlmlls one tiling.

Mr. LIEnt:u:n. I don't have uny other questions.~ I r s . G ~ : H A C I •. Do yon IHl\'e H record of n1e reporting Curios to lhe F.BI? Do

you hnve thnt. In the record anywhere w Jere I found out -he told me he wnH

~ o l n g to collect money fot· Culm, hut r clldn't know he wns giving ont these little

tickets Ill' he called them, and then when I found out he luul collcctctl $10 nne

hron).:hl It clown Ull(l r snw the recelptB nod ]1( hnd more t i c k e t ~ . we forllntlehim to go tlown there, nnd Cnrlns cnllctl the house to try to get him a-what is

i t - n license or permit to go from hom;c to house ami collect money.

Mr. a ~ : K A C I . He nc"cr cnlled me.Mrs. O ~ e n A o t . I l c tlld call me.Mr. Or.nACI. I lc culled yon? Carlos?

Mrs. o ~ : K A C I . 1 spoke wlth him on the Jlhone.• lr. C : E n . ~ c r . 'l'hnt ht:en\1 -'C 1 tnhl him-when I eollt:t•tetl, n uuw told me

to do H i l m P t h l u ~ l\lcc tlmt, thnt l ucctled u 1\ceuse, I went anti told Cnrlo-t<,"Yon •hnYe to get n llcenRe." He sn cl, "Don't collect nny more until I ~ e t one."

Then he went to city bnll nnd ,I Ot some stnll' he had to fill out.Mr. r .n:nEL£R. '.rhts wn::m't Oswnld who told you you couldn't collect?

1\fr. GERACI. No.

Mr. Lll.:UELEH. Oswald t itln't have nnytbing to do wltl1 this?

~ l r . GF.RACI. No; this wns before I knew 0Hwald. 'l'hls is u nlfln work l some

JllfiCE'--Who works In 11 clenner's, 1 remember. I went tl1ere nu<1 l1e Aflitl 1 hntlto , ~ ? ; e t n llcemw to do th11t, flO I culled C11rlos on the phone and told hiru., I r K GERAcr. 'J'hen when Carlo.'l called the house, I realized he w n ~ ~ ; ; t i l l ln·

volred in this.

Mr. GERACI. I told you I was.

.Mrs. GERACI. I put my foot down and told him be coulc1n't do it. any more, and

T cnlled the FRI.Mr. 0F.RAC1. And the Retter Business Burenu.

Mrs. GERACI. ~ r b e y told me to Cllll the Retter BnRiness Burenu, but the ruau

nt the l ~ r n told llHJ he conldn't. g-ive out- nny nformnlion a:; to whether this wns

fl. Communist orgun znl on or not, nnd the headr lmrters were in 1-l nmi, not\the best thing to do would be not to let llim get hwolved In it. nny more. Then

I cnlletl the Better Business Bureau, nml they were r>upposcd to check with

l\1\nml, but I ne"er did get n report hack from him.

1\lr. LTEnEI.r:n. Was this hefore or after you met Oswnld?

Mr. GERAcr. This wns hefore.

Mr l. Or.nAcr. But he hfls the re<:eiJll. nt home with tlw tlnte on tt. \VJ.n:nhe ~ n Y c Cnr os money, Cnrlos ~ H v e him n re<:eipt.

l \lr. GEnAar. I remember Curios making out n check to ). 'i>e the money to

1\l umi too. When g:11"e him the mone;;•, be put the money in h i ~ lmnk and

mnde out n check to the beadqun rters.

l \ l r ~ . OF: tACI. \Ve met Cnrio l just now in the hnll, nntl he told me the \){>flt

t h i n ~ Philip could <lo would he listen to his pnrents nnd he a goo<l Btudent.

l l l ~ h t now tlmt woultl he the way he could help combnt communism. Anti l

(O\tl hiut J' thongobt he Wafl too yonng to get Jnvolvetlin thing'S 1\k e hit>, selJln). 'llrket.s for Culm und nil this flt.uiT. T..nst. year he wns only 1fl ntltl too yonng t.o

he Involved In fill thnt. mess. The runn nt the Fn1 told me tlmt nn org:nnlznllon

could be nll right totlny nntl next week It would he C o m u n m l ~ t - c o n t ~ o l l e d nnd

how was to know.

Mr. LtF.IIF.LF:R. Do you know who yon talked to nt the FBI?

Mrs. 0ERAC1. Gee, 1 mny hn;•e his nnme nt home with these slips of paper that

took from him.

1\Ir. LtF.IlEl.ER. t Is not renliy important. I jusl wondered if yon rememhered.

:Mrs. 0F:RACI. 'Yell, I wnnted his nnme clenred for g-etting mlxecl np with

Carlos, hectlUSe 1 didn' t know from benm; nhont Cnrlos, I le could be n Com·

mnnist. 1 don't know who Is and who isn't. When I onnd out he met Oswald,

80

1 nenrly tllctl. The week this hnppcne<l he WHil cumplllJ.: with tlle Boy Scout.sunci gmu: l<"r tlny, Sntunlny, nnd Sunday when lhe Htnff w a ~ on 'l'V.

Mr. OF.Il.\CI. l wns in sehoul when he g-ot shot.

MrH, Gr:HAcr. l \ut you were In l , l l l iJI, hnt you tlltln't. ~ t . t n lot. of tltc funerul uud

ull thnt fltltiT showinJ.; Oswnlti'H picture.

Mr. T.Ir.m:u:R. How dlrl you nrst ilt.><:ome nware thut O lwnld wus the fellowyou met·? Did Ynnce talk to you nhout It? Do yon rememher?

Mr. GF.HACI. The first time wns when the FBI n . ~ ; e n t cnme to my h o u ~ e nod

asked tlhl r see nn ex-mnrine nnd showed a picture nntl nll thflt. I tlidn't cren

know it before that. I t WH 'I just then thut I renllzed.

Mr. Ln:m:I.F.R. Did the Fil l mnn tell you how hc

1\fr. Of:H,\CI. Got my unme?

Mr. Ln:u,:u:n. Whnt Jlrompted ldm, why tlld he t•ome to your house? Did

he tell you?

,\Ir. G ~ : n A c i . 'n•l l , he flHid he l'OUitln't h•\1 nw that. 1 uslced h w, nnd ht> folHitl,

well, he couldn't. tell me. Or collr le, 1 ~ e S It might hn;·e heen hecauf;C wt...___

111,\' mother cnllcd, you knnw, nhout this Cuhuu h u : ; i m · ~ - l h t - y 1-:nlmy lllllllC ontht•lr l ~ t . nr R O U H • t h i n ~ , l g U f ' l i ~ , an( Wllt'll tht'y fOllll(\ ont IJlfl\. ht• l.r e.l to join

thnt J.;roup, thnt must itnve heen where it. enmc from, ~ r h n t Is wlmt r t.hlnkMr l. G•:nACI. ~ ' h e y prolmhly hncl n list of lk Ople who were c n l \ e c t l n ~ money

for the orgnnlzutlon.

Mr. LIEHEI.F.H. OK.]

don't lmve nny moref]Ue lt om;, I

<lo wnnt to thunk

you very much for c o m \ u ~ In nntl helng IHl cooperntlve as ynu huve, nntl, onbehHlf ()(the Commission, [ WHOt to thnnk you very I ll l lCh.

Mr. GERACl, OK.

Mrs. GERACI. You nre welcome1 so long as we don't. hnve any publicity.

Mr. LrEBELF.R. That Is something you nevercnn g-unruntee.

TESTIMONY OF VANCE BLALOCK

The testlmnuy of \ 'nnce B\nlock, aet:ompnni'e-<1 hy ltis p:trentH, waR tnken onAtJr l 7-8, J{)(M, nt the Old Ch·Il Court.H Bn \dlng, Roynl nnd Conti S t r e € t . ~Nt'W Orlf'nns, Ln., hy Mr. WeRley T T.Ae Jelcr, nssiHtnnt c o n n ~ or tlle PresiUent'HCommission.

.\'nnce Blnlock. hnYing heen flrRt. duly Hworu, w uR examined and tcstlfletl 1111

follows:

Mr. L r E n ~ < : u : n . My nnme ls Wesley .T. Lieheler. 1 nm n member of the le).:nlstn T of the President's C o m m t ~ s l o n l n v e : - l t l g a t l n ~ - : the Ufolf.lllHSinnt. nn or President

Kennedy. Stnff ruemherH llll;'e h e ~ n n u t h o r i z t ~ d lo tnke the te:<t mony of wit

nesfiCl:l hy t h < ~ C o w m l ~ s i n n , llllrl'llnnt. to nnthor ty gruntt•cl to tlw C l l l l l l l l i : < ~ l o n hy

ICxeculive Onler No. 1 1 1 : ~ 0 . tlutt•d No\'('m:x•r ~ ) . I Hi:l, nntl joint rt'>«llotlon of

Congress No. 137. I understuml, Vance, that Mr. I...ee nankin, who Is genernl

l'Otmsel of the ConuniR'>ion, wrott.• J'OII n ·Ji'tter last wcek - -

Mr. BI.AI.OCK. 'l'hnt Is rig:ht.

Mr. L n w ~ : ~ o r . R . Anti told you that I would he in touch with ynu concerning

the t a k n ~ o : of your teRtlmony, I nntlcn tnml t.hnt Mr. Hnnkin enclosed with

thnt letter n eopy of the I-:xt'<'llth·e order nne of lhP n > > ~ o l n t l o n of Conh'TCSH tn

which I Jun·e just referrctl, us well as n C'opy of the rules of proct."lure ndOJllcdby the Commission gm·erulng the taking of the tt:::t numy of witncs:;cf.l, Didyou recel\'c that letter and those dtH:tlmenls?

Mr Rt.AI.OCK. Yes; I dhl.

Mr. l.n:IIF:r.ER. We want to Inquire \'Cry hrlefly of ;;·on concerning: nn e;•cnt

which occurred some time In the summer of lfH.J.: l here in New Orlcnns. We

understnnd thnl you were present1tt n meet n ~ - : , a chllnce mcetinJ.;, hetwceu Lc'eHnrvey Oswa.ld nnd Cnrlos Urinh'llier. Before "'e get Into the tlctniHl of tlmt,

howeYer, would you state your full nnme fnr lhe record,

Mr .BLALOCK. Vnnce Douglns Bin ock.

81



- _ :.__ . .. ·- -·- - - . - · - - --... .... . : ·-- •._ ' - - - : .. . ; ~ ~ - -... · -:,, 0 - • 0. - - . . . '

F c . D ~ i V , L B U ~ = A U 0? INVC:STIGATION

· c = ,.,... _...__ ..- _D- 1 . 1_. _·.· .·

-• - : , .. · :

: . •· . . ,.. ·.· "··

. . .. ·:· . ,. . .. .. " ; • • .. ·- . ..·. : :· : .. _;:. : . .... ... · : : ~ ;. , ./. ·_, . . : :.: : .

-: . . ·.- ... ...;' .. .... .

.,- I.. • • •

. :. 11/I')C/6..,Dot. . - __ , ..)

~

Acres Read, f u r z ; . i s b . e ~

{ ; l - ~ C I vie' ; ed ~ p h o t c . · g r 2 . ~ b . c f LEE nA?.IJ'"EY OSO'A ..l)and s t ~ t e ~ O S ~ ~ was i d ~ n t i c ~ l t c a ~ i ~ d ~ v i d u a l with ~ ~ ~ ~he ~ d a b ~ ~ e f c c ~ v e r s ~ t ~ o ~ a s t i ~ 6 a b ~ u t t en m i ~ u t e s , whichtook p l a c ~ a t the .· cuban s tud ent Direc tcr a t e :csD) . 107

e c ~ t u r St ree t , ~ ~ e ' W Orlear:.s1

: .n t he l a t t e r par t of Ju ly ,

1963 . G. :.P_.;t; . , age 15 a s o p h c n o r ~ a t Eas t Je f fe r s en :lishSchool , :=.:etairie 1 . .cuisiana, advised t ha t a t t he ti>:;:.l.e_ hemet OSWALD a t the CSD h e ~ CE P .-\CI, was v i s i t i c.g ths.t r l ~ c efo r · t h e f i r s t tli:le fo r the purpcse c f obtait : i :g i:c.fo:-Bs.ticnregard ing the C S D ~ ~ h i c h he had heard ~ a s an a n t i - C A S T ~ ~CUban o r g a ~ i z a t i o n . G E ? ~ C s t a t ed t ha t he d i s ~ ~ s s e dan:t_i-'cASTRO a c t i v i t i e s with a CARL'JS. BR K::us · phone t ic ) ,

who owned the · Cas a : ~ c a S1:0re, 107 Deca t'..l: St r e e t , whichwas t he h e ~ d q u a r t e r s fo r the anti-CASTRO c : - g a ~ i z a t i 0 ~ ~known as the CSD. A c c c m p n ~ y i ~ g G ~ ~ ~ C I a t tha t t i ~ e was af r i e nd o f h i s ,· VANCE BL.A ...OCX, 5708 Bouta l l St ree t , ~ e t a i r i e ,Louis iana .

While t a lk ing w: .th CARLOS BRlN2: US, an i : .dividualwhose photograph GEP ;CI advised was i d e n ~ : . - - : a l to LES HARVEYOSWALD, c a ~ e i n to t he s to re and ~ a d e i ~ q u i r y of B R N ~ l U Sregard in'g anti-CAS:'RO l : i . ter; . ture . OS i'/Al..D expressed a ~i n t e r e s t in l ea rn ing a l l ' about the CSD an1 indica ted ad e s ~ e t o j o i n the o r g a ~ i z a t i o ~ . F o l ~ ~ w i ~ g a br i e fd i scus s ion of the CSD , its pU.:..poses :a:::d ob j e c t i·J'es

9OSTIA ..:D

beca-.: e en:;;aged io. another c o n v e r s ~ t i o n with GERAC: and h i sf r i end , BLALOC:{. GZRACI r e c a l l s OS'/iAL. >, ll e ltio:ling t h a t hehad in hi s posse ss ion a Uarice G u i ~ e Book which c o ~ t a i n e d

· in forwat ion regard ing g u e r r i l l a t a c t i c s , f i rearms a:c.j o t ~ e rs ub j e c t s . G:SRACI r e c a l l s n e n t i 0 n i ~ g to O S W A ~ t h a t he,G :Rl-.CI, h:: .d done ~ little read ing rega "ding guerr :i. :la w:::> "'fare 1a f t e r w h i c ~ 0Si7LLD infor;:ued h i e t hat he was : f a ~ i l i a : ; : with

var ious types o i g u ~ r r i l l a t a c t t c s . CSI'lA ..D in fo rmed GER.-\Clt h a t he knew enough about explos ives to be able to blow u ~

~ h enew bridge which

c ~ o s s e dthe

~ i s s i s s i p p iRiver

f ~ c ~New Orleaus 'to A:: .gie r s ; Louis iana . OSi'lAL > a l so m e n t : . o ~ e : it h a t he knew how to d ~ r a i l a t r a i n which c o ~ l d e ~ s i y bea c c o ~ ; > l i s h e d by p l ~ c ~ n g a cha in arcu:1d the r a i l road t r acksand secur ing it with a lock. ·,

c.. __ ._• . . l ~ / . . . : 2 ~ C l . : . . l . . . : . h . ; . ; 3:::._ ct _ _ _ _ , _ ~ : : : :e : ; . . . . ; t : : : . . ; a = i c = r - = i = - e : : . . . . o . ~ L 0 = : . - = . 1 - = i : : . . : : : : ; = - ~ = - · : : . : - = : : . . : :3.;:::._ f i le '# _ = ?: : ;iO= : : : 8 ; . . : : 9 ~ - ~ S - = 9 : . . . _ . _ ______

hy S .; ~ { E V I : ; J . E . . P . . ? . . ~ A N /jo Dat9 dictated · 11 /29 /53

- : - : ~ ~ ~ c : cu c : .n t c o t c t : : . ~ n:oHh•r r e c o c :::;<>nda t lona n o r eoncl , .uloo • o t £ ~ ~ t [ t t s

theproper ty o ( tb• FBC ar>' 1.. loaocd toy o ~ cc;.oc.ey; U co 4 i :a co.:>t.,nta a r e not to be datr.:C \Hed o-. t .1de yo-.r a11ency.



.· · . . : - : : : . - ~ : - f \ ~ : : : ; - ~ ~ ~ a ; . ~ t - . - ~ . ~ r ) : ~ : · : ~ > : ~ o p - ~ l · J . - ~ : ~ ,.• ..

.t

¢IU·;_X : 5 ; · ~ ~ ; c £ { c · : : ; ; , ~ ~ , ~ ~ ~ , W i ~ ~ · ~ · Y ~ ~ . ~ · - 2 ~

lTO 8 9 ~ 92

..

GEPACI a ~ v i s e d that the b=ie f co4versat ion with

OSTrALD l a s t ed about t e ~ or f i f t e e n micutes and t ha t i n

add i t i on t o d i s c us s ins t he CSD and a. b r i e f d i scuss ion

regarding g u e ~ r i l l a t a c t i c s ~ o t h i n g e l s e was di scussed .

He ca>J.::ot rec:1ll OSTIALD d i s C 1 . S S i ~ g 1:a:r-xisr:1 Colnmunisn

or ~ n y other p o l i ~ i c a l p h i l c s o p ~ y at the t ime. G3RACIr e c a l l s OS71AD me.c:::ioni .g th a t he .- as l i v i n g o ~ Magnzine

S t ~ e e t exact address u r r : - e c ~ l : . e d . , and a l s o that he was "lookingfo r - a j ob . n a dd i t i on G E ~ ~ I advised t ha t o ther than

t h e b r i e f co lversn t ion h e had w i t h OS7L: l I.tl in J u ly 1963

he had no fu r t he r contac t wi th O ~ J A L D and had not seen him

s i n c e t h a t t in e .

··.... f1·.

'

...

. -. .

.-



I• J; U 10: It A I . U U l l 1:: A U 0 1,. I N V I G ......" l' \ ( ) '4

New Orleans , L o ~ i s ~ a n aMay 6, 1965

PHILIP GERACI, III. I '

Deputy S h e r i f f Don Borne of the Juven i le Divi s ion o f

the Je f fe r son ·Par i sh S h e r i f f s Off i ce , Gretna, Louis iana,

t e lephon i·ca l ly advised t he New Orleans Off ice of t he Fede ra l

Bureau of Inves t iga t ion on May 1965, t h a t in connect ion

with the miss ing persons no t ice placed wi th h is department in

connect ion with Phi l ip Gerac i , I I I , a 17 year old high schoo l

s tuden t r es id ing a t 2201 Green Acres Road, Meta i r i e , Louis iana ,it had come t o h is a t t e n t i o n t h a t Geraci had an i n t e r e s t ing u e r i l l a warfare , exp los ives and t he organ iz ing o f groups .Deputy Borne s t a t e d Geraci i s a menta l ly di s tu rbed youth who

rece ived p s y ch i a t r i c t r ~ a t m e n t s , i s ra t ed ~ s being a lmost agenius , and i s repor t ed to have been an acquaintance of LeeHarvey Oswald, the assass in of Pres iden t John F. Kennedy.

In connect ion with a previous i nves t iga t ion ,Car los Br ingu ier , ope ra to r o f Casa Roca Store , 107 DecaturSt ree t , New Orleans , Louis iana, advised on November 25, 1963,t h a t he i s ac t ive in ;:tpti -Cas t ro Cuban groups in New Orleans ,

Louis iana . He s t a t e d t h a t on August 5, 1963, he met LeeHarvey Oswald when he came in the Casa · Roca Store and volun tee red

to · a s s i s t in an t i -Cas t ro Cuban mat te r s . ~ h e next day he r e tu rned

and l e f ~ U. s .. Marine Mapual a t the s t o re , but he .did not

meet him. ·

On August 9, - 1963, Bringuie r s t a t ed he observedOswald pass ing ou t pro-Cas t ro l e a f l e t s on C ~ n a l St ree t and .he at tempted to t a l k to him and t h i s conversa t ion subsequen t ly

r e su l t e d in a i s t f igh t which r e su l t e d in· h is a r re s t andtwo othe r an t i -Cas t ro Cuban f r i ends of h i s as wel l as LeeOswald. He advised t ha t Osw.ald a p p ~ ; : t r e d a t l (unicipal Court~ n d en te red a plea of g u i l t y and was sen tenced to pay · a f i n e

o f 10.00. He s t a t e d t ha t w h he ap_peared· in MunicipalCour t , he took a se a t among the Negro people who wer e p ~ e s e n tin cour t and was not r epresented by an a t to rney and of fe red

no de fense . S u b s e q ~ e n t to t h i s a r r e s t , Bringu ier s t a t e dtha t he ar ranged fo r a debate on l oca l r ad io s t a t i o n _WDSU

in which they debated the e f f e c t s of C a s t r ~ s a c t i v i t i e s in

Cuba.

- - - - - - - ·- ---------- - - - - -- S 3 f l 1VNOI1VN 3H1 V 3 : : > n 0 0 - - . - - - -

.1., ,. 1 r··:·1:; •l Rl · · '-·.J. . l . l ~ · · .t.. . - · - -· - · , .

/./tl/:.5. "': :[J,\ ' 1 : · · " ' · • •



On

Deputy S h e r i f f DON BORNE of the Juven i l e Di i if f

. . . v a ono f t h e Je er son Par1.sh S h e ~ · J . . f f s Off1.ce, . located in t h e o l d

Gre tna Courthouse Bui ld ing , .200 Huey P. ·Long Avenue, Gre tna ,

Lo u i s i an a , adv i sed on May 5 , 1965, t h a t PH LIP GERACI, I I Ihad been r epor t ed to h i s depar tment as missin 'g s ince Apr i l 20·,

1965. His pa ren t s had r e p o r t e d he had r u n away from home andh' is schoo l , t he Eas t J e f f e r s o n J u n io r High School , wher.e he

was •an 11 th grade s t u d e n t .

Deputy BORNE s t a t e d he had a l s o in te rv iewed and

ta . lked wi th some of t h e GERACI y o u t h ' s schoo l mates i n the

Eas t J e f f e r s o n High Schnol concern ing PHILIP GERACI, I I I . He

s t a t e d t he schoo l mates of GERACI wi th whom he had t a l k e d

were 16 and 17 years of age . These were WII.L AM BILLWXNFJ[ELD DWYER, JR. , 4009 B is s o n e t Dr ive , Met<J.irie, Louis i ana ,

age 16, ···JESSIE LAFONTAINE, 450 Upst ream, J e f f e r s o n P a r i s h ,

Lo u i s i an a , age·l6_, and RAUL UAVAS·; 713 Houma Bouleva rd ,

Meta i r i e , Louis iana , age 16 o r 17 . ·

These youths and p o s s i b l y some o t h e r s had a s s o c i a t e d

to .gether f rom t ime. to t ime and somet imes c a l l e d t hemselvesThe T o r t , Sons o f t h e Confederacy , · ·or· The Marsh Maurauders ,

They would engage in camping and h ik in g t r i p s and f r equen t ly ·engaged i n . o r amused themselves in p lay in g g u e r i l l a · w a r f a r e

and o t h e r war games, These : ~ o u t h s c a l l e d t h e i r a c t s p l a y ,

Some had combat boots or o the r a r t i c l e s probab ly purchased froma.Ymy s u r p l u s s t o r e s , but · were nc;ot l}cnown · t o own ·or p o s s es s any ·arms·, w.eapons, ammunit ion o r exp los ive s , I n v e s t i g a t i o n developed ,

however ' t h a t it ·had been s u g g es t ed amdng them . that they shou ld

v. l .s i t t he Alv.in Cal lender A :b: Ji':j.eld, .Bel le Chasse , Louisian:>. ,:a.o.d t h e Michaud Plan t o f th•b Nat io n a l A er o mw t i c s ·SpaceAd m in i s t r a t i o n (NASA), Nsw llJ·J:e:ans, Lo u i s i an a , and concea l , ·

· · h i d e o r h ' av e · in some. i nconsp icuous p l a c e a t · t he se i n s t a l l a -t i o n s , an ,empty rita t c h bo:X contai i l ing t he message This co u ld

have been a bomb. I t was a l s o p l a n n e d . t h a t one member mightu s e a m in ia tu r e . camer:<J. and t ake some p i c t u r e s . This would

have been fo r t he av<(liWed purpose o f showing t he pub l i c t h a t

the. s e c u r i t y r e g u l a t i o n s were not s t r i c ; t enough a t t h e s e two

i n s · ~ a l l a t i o n sGenera l ly , t hose wi th whom Deputy.BORNE had t a l k e d

· · -- - - - - - - - - -

7

5 /5 /65 Gretna , Louis iana NO 100-2467______ at · , :c i ·---· -·-------------

SA J , WOO DR.0 /1 GII,J,l:ORE : sms 5 /6 /6 5y - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - -D a te dictated

This. docurol}nt containl'l nelthor recommendutiona nor concluoiona of tho F'BL It iH the j JrCJper\y ot the POI and a; loaned to

your OQency; it and ltl l contontl l oro not to btr dlntribu od outside your uqency

S3AIH:J :llf 1VNOJl.VN 3Hl l l f 3 : J n O O ~ d 3 1 : l

\



NO 100 ·-2467 sms

.;1.

f e l t t h a t in th i s c ount r y people a r e not s ev ere enought ~ i t hcommunists in t h i s count ry and it wou l d b e wor thwhi le if they

cou l d ma k e some c o n t r i b u t i o n i n br ing ing to the p u b l i c poss ib le

l ax i ty o f secu r i t y r egu la t io ns in v a r i o u s es t ab l i shment s . thad no t been p l a n n e d h o w e v e r ~ t o p lan t any ac tu a l bombs o rto do any a c t ua l damage in such ac t i o n s as t hey might t ake .

Depu ty BOmm secured from school mates and s t u d en t swhom he ha d i n t e rviewed some books which appeared t o begene ra l ly :a.rmy or Gov e rnment p u b l i c a t i o n s concerned p r i n c i p a l l y

w i t h war f a re , inc lud i ng guerilla warfare . He found in ~ o m e o f

these books var ious re fe rences to the use o f x p l o s i v e s Thebooks we re s a id by s tude n t s i n t e rviewed by Deputy Sherif fBORNE t o b e t he p ro p e r t y o f PHILIP GERACI, I I I .

( l )

(2)

(3')

(4)

( 5 }

(6 )

(7)

Ti t l e s o f t he se books are as fo l lows :

Master s o f Dece i t ' 9 by J . EDGAR HOOVER.

'0Sma ll Uni t T:a c ti c s . I n f a n t r y Including Combat

Format io ns , Si g n a l s » Appl ica t ion o f F i re , 1 s t

e d i t i o n 9 1948.

00Bas ic F i e l d Manua l , S o l d i e r s · Handbook, 9 p u b l i s hedby ·Government P r i n t i n g Of f i c e 1941 .

vo150 Q u es t ions f or a Gue r i l l a by General · Alber to

B o y d pr:i.nted by Cypre's s P r inting Company 0 e n e rCol o ra d o 1 1963 . ·

Spec i a l W a r f a r e ~ U.S. Army Pub l i s he r .

vvThe Gueri. l l a - and How · to Figh t Him , 9' by Lt .

Col . '1' . N. G r e n e 1963.

nwar Dept.. F l.e l d a n u n l t Corps o f 'Enginee r s p

Cr .m.o.u'f l ag e o f B v o u a c Command P o s t s Supply

Poin t s , a nd Me d i .ca l I n s t a l l a t i o n s a wardepar t ment pub . , 5/ 44

8

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - H : : J I J . V N 3HJ. J V : : J n O m d 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

i l .- - ~ . L . I \ , i , \-

\; - h t . I

. ,., · .



NO 100-2467/sms

5

whereabouts s ince Apri l 20 , 1965. He advised GERARI may bealmost a genius but i s mental ly d is tu rbed . He i s underpsych ia t r i c t r e a t ~ e n t and apparent ly must · ha te h is f a t h e r

with in tense pass ion . GERACI would n ot ·ea t o f f p la t e s usedby h i s f a th e r o r put ·h i s hand on apy door knob which had beenhandled by -h is f a t h e r without f i r s t wiping of f the ·door knob.

· l l is i nves t iga t ion r e f l e c t e d GERACI had of fe red toj o i n Alpha 6 ~ , a group of Cuban re fugees who wished to goback to · cuba and over throw CASTRO. GERACI's s e r v i ce s werer e fused . GERACI a l s o of fe red to , join t lw Morgan

Brigade , a group ox Americans who wished to go back t o Cuba

and overthrow CASTRO, and was a l s o re fused .

The mat te r of ·GERACI as being a miss ing person i sc a r r i e d as Item #4-2733-65 with ' the Je f fe r son Par i sh S h e r i f f ' s

Off ice . Deputy S h e r i f f ·BORNE s t a t e d GERACI i s Glassed merelyas a runaway in t ha t he i s of l ega l age in the s t a t e o f

Louis iana . There are no charges aga ins t GERACI. There hadbeen ind ica t ion GERACI may have been assoc ia ted -a t one t imewith 'one MARIO , otherwise unknown, who was repor t ed to bea homosexual. ··

10

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[ Rl - - - · · . , ..... ' J·I·:L . .

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Documents

Blalock Geraci