DADAVANIAwareness of the food

and the eaterEDITORIAL

In the worldly life interactions, if we ask a person who has already eaten, ‘Did you eat?’Then he will say, ‘Yes, I ate’. Then if we ask him how was the taste of the food? What wasthe proportion of spices in the food? Then he can describe the saltiness, tartness or spicinessthrough the knowledge mediated by intellect. So, in fact, there are two divisions: the eater ofthe food and the knower. Physical body complex eats, the ego suffers (bhogavey) with onlyegoism that ‘I liked or disliked’ it.

Now, as long as one is the doer-sufferer, he believes that ‘I am eating’ and ‘I am suffering’for sure. When one attains Atmagnan (Self-realization) at that time, ‘I’ comes in to the state ofthe Self, then one realizes that ‘I am not the eater’ but I ‘the non-eater’, am only the ‘knower’of this. One is not ‘the eater’ yet to believe oneself to be ‘the eater’ is considered unawareness(ajagruti) and to ‘see’ and ‘know’ that ‘the eater’ is separate, is considered awareness (jagruti).Both the gnani-agnani (Self-realized and non-Self-realized) have the nature of ‘knowing’ butas long as one has not attained Gnan (Self-realization), intellect knows and after Self realizationpragnya (liberating energy of the Self) knows.

Therefore, revered Dadashri says that after Self-realization ‘the eater’ is eating and ‘theSelf’ is only the ‘knower’. There is no problem if ‘Chandubhai’ (the self) eats but why should‘the Self’ eat? We have to eat with the awareness that ‘the eater’ is eating. This is just that,since time immemorial one becomes engrossed due to false practice, therefore, awareness doesnot remain. The eater is separate, but one believes himself to be the eater and therefore, onebecomes partial towards the eater, but how long can we let go of this mistake?

Revered Dadashri says that of the five senses, the sense of taste is the one which obstructsawareness the most. Excess food intake creates obstruction in awareness (jagruti), because thefood, which goes in the stomach changes into alcohol and under the effect of its intoxication theawareness becomes veiled. Therefore, whoever wants to progress, has to maintain awarenessin taking food, and be the non-eater in the process. There is the control of the mind while eatingand thereafter there is the control of spiritual apathy (pramaad). So then, when will we haveour control? Food that comes in your plate is dependent on vyavasthit (scientific circumstantialevidences), but it is one’s independent purushartha (the role of Being the Self) as to when andhow much to take it. Now, whose mistake is there, after becoming a Purush if we do notexercise our purushartha?

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February 2011Year : 6, Issue : 4

Conti. Issue No.: 64

Editor :Dimple Mehta

Price : Rs. 10

Printed & Published by : Dimple Mehta on behalf of Mahavideh Foundation, 5, Mamtapark Society, Bh. NavgujaratCollege, Usmanpura, Ahmedabad-14.Owned by : Mahavideh Foundation, 5, Mamtapark Society, Bh. Navgujarat College, Usmanpura, Ahmedabad-14.Printed at : Amba Offset, Basement, Parshvanath Chambers, Nr.RBI, Usmanpura, Ahmedabad-14.Published at : Mahavideh Foundation, 5, Mamtapark Society, Bh. Navgujarat College, Usmanpura, Ahmedabad-14.

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Awareness of the food and the eater{ Please note that ‘S’ Self denotes the awakened Self, separate from the ‘s’ worldly self. The Selfis the Soul within all living beings. The term pure Soul is used by the Gnani Purush for the awakenedSelf, after the Gnan Vidhi. The absolute Soul is the fully enlightened Self. The worldly soul is theself. In the same manner, ‘Y’ You refers to the awakened Soul or Self, and the ‘y’ you refers to theworldly self. This differentiation is unique to critical understanding of the separation of the Self fromthe self a/k/a the non-Self complex that is accomplished in the Gnan Vidhi of Akram Vignan.}

Why is it that we are not able to eat with awareness, which weakness is there, where amistake is happening, how would be the upayoga (applied awareness as the Self) of the one whoeats with awareness, how would the applied awareness of the Gnani Purush be in front of theeater, and how can we be in purushartha like that? This Dadavani, gives us the precise scientificunderstanding which will help us all to be in such purushartha.

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand

Who is the eater?

Dadashri: Did you eat?Questioner: Yes.Dadashri: Who are you?Questioner: I am Shuddhatma - pure

Soul.Dadashri: Then who ate the food?

Who had the meal?Questioner: Chandubhai (the name of

the relative self).Dadashri: Is that so? Chandubhai ate,

‘You-the Self’ Self would know that, wouldn’tYou?

Questioner: Yes.Dadashri: Did you have awareness at

the time of eating that this ‘Chandubhai’ (therelative self) is eating?

Questioner: No.Dadashri: There is no problem if

Chandubhai eats, You should not eat. Thatwhich is not ‘Our’ nature, that which is notour gunadharma (intrinsic property that havea specific function), why should ‘we’ do that?Did the awareness (jagruti) remain that the

eater (ahaari) ate food (ahaar)?Questioner: In the beginning of eating,

that awareness (jagruti) remains for sometimeand then again it goes away.

Dadashri: In the beginning it will boostup a lot.

Questioner: Yes, completeseparateness remains for a while.

Dadashri: Initially (after the Gnan Vidhi)for one to two years it will be like a great light(of awareness) and then, it will start to cooldown (decrease). The karma take over andwill decrease the awareness. In the beginningbecause the sin karma (paap) are burnt in theGnan Vidhi, the awareness will prevail anddominate.

Questioner: In the beginning of eating,for two to three minutes the separation remainsvery well.

Dadashri: When the hunger is intense,then everyone will remain separate. Awarenesscomes when one is burning with hunger(bhookha) otherwise one is asleep all day long.

Questioner: Once one gets involvedwith nourishing the physical self (annamayakosha) intoxication is verily the result, and

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thereafter, relative awareness (bhaan)decreases and leaves.

Dadashri: It changes into alcohol dueto that. The alcohol like effect of food leads todecrease in awareness. After the food getsdigested, after three to four hours, the relativeawareness returns. And if one eats less then itdigests early. If one eats less then hisawareness will resume early. Main thing thathinders is verily this food.

Unawareness due to food

Questioner: What is the relationbetween food and awareness (jagruti)?

Dadashri: All unawareness (ajagruti)is due to food only. And if one does not takefood then he will have plentiful awareness evenif he has not taken Gnan (The knowledge ofthe Self and of the doer through Gnan Vidhi inAkram Vignan).

Questioner: Even if one has not takenGnan?

Dadashri: Yes, he will have tremendousawareness. One gets intoxicated due to foodand he remains in its suppressive effect (ghen).He becomes just like a log of wood the wholenight.

Ask this person, ‘Did you get up duringthe whole night? Oh God! All illusions are Yours(not mine) ‘Rama tari maya’! All who sleephere, does anyone wakes up at night? It is justthat one sleeps covered with bed sheet fromhead to toe. Who is there to question you?

What is the basis of awareness?

Questioner: It does bother me insidethat I should take less food. Food should beeaten less. He (the one within) does have thatunderstanding, but yet when he sits to eat, atthat time he ends up eating more.

Dadashri: Now, let me see you takemore of this vegetable curry which is very salty.If you love to eat potato vegetable and if it issalty then let me see you take it.

Questioner: Then I cannot take it.Dadashri: So if the potato vegetable is

salty then immediately it will bring ‘him’ (theinner one) in awareness that he does not likeit.

Questioner: So at the time of eatingthe awareness is deficient, is that the reasonexcess food is consumed?

Dadashri: There is no awarenesswhatsoever. Where is the awareness at all, thewhole day? It is just that you are staying (inawareness) a little because of the energy andbrilliance (prataap) of this Gnan. For averageresults, Your awareness is very good.

The effect of food in GnanQuestioner: What is the connection

between Gnan and food intake?Dadashri: Awareness can remain if one

eats less, otherwise it cannot, can it?Questioner: How big of an obstacle is

food in maintaining awareness in Gnan?Dadashri: A very big obstacle. Food is

very obstructive because as food enters thestomach, it is converted into a form of alcoholand then its effect remains during the rest ofthe day. Otherwise, how can there not beawareness of the five Agnas that I have given?What is a big a deal in that? And I have giventhe awareness to everyone, have I not? Butthere is a tremendous effect of food on one’sawareness. ‘We’ have not asked anyone torenounce food. If the renouncing happens onits own only then it is of worth.

Questioner: Are these Agnas followedvery well by fasting?

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Dadashri: You do not have to fasteveryday otherwise all these Agnas will beeaten up in the stomach, it will go in thestomach, and all the Agnas will be burnt in thefire of the stomach.

Questioner: It will become a routine.

Dadashri: No, everything will go inhunger pangs only, in the pain of the hungeronly. Kabir Saheb says:

‘Bhookha lage tab kashu nahi sooze,gnan-dhyan sab rotimey,

Kahat Kabira suno bhai sadhu aaglago ees pothimey.

One cannot see anything when he getshungry, knowledge-meditation everything goesin the bread.

Oh sadhu! Listen to what Kabir has tosay, the fire has ignited in this stomach.’

What will these ignorant people say atthe end that the fire ignited in the stomach? Itis not the fault of the stomach; it is the fault ofthe eater. It is a terrible ignorance to say thatit is the fault of the stomach. One can say thatway in the worldly interaction (vyavahar). Itis the fault of the eater. What can the poorstomach do?

The one who knows the prakruti, is Purush

One dances as the prakruti (mind-speech-body complex) makes him dance.Awareness does not remain about what isharmful or hurtful to the self.

Who feels hungry? Who feels thirsty?All this happens to prakruti. Who is askingfor this jalebi (sweet and flavored golden ringsfried to crispness)? Who is asking for tea?Prakruti is asking for this.

Tasty or tasteless, is the effect ofparmanu (indivisible particle of an atom).

Some people feel desire to drink tea themoment they see it and some people do notfeel like drinking it at all, what is that? It isbecause of parmanus are demanding fromwithin.

Who is going to toilet? The Self? Allthis happens to prakruti, and what do peoplesay? ‘I went to the toilet.’ Does prakruti feelhungry or You feel hungry?

Questioner: Prakruti feels hungry.Dadashri: And yet one says, ‘I became

hungry’. There is no harm in saying this withworldly interaction view; there is no harm inspeaking dramatically. But one speaks this wayexactly, with that belief too within. One has nochoice but to say it appears in the world, inthe play of the world.

When one knows the Self, then Purush(the Self) and the prakruti (the relative self,the non-Self), become separate. Thereafter,prakruti will follow the role of prakruti andthe Purush will follow the role of the Purush.

Difficulties of kramic path

Until one makes all the senses (indriyas)nirahaari (the non-eater), one cannot domeditation (dhyan) in the kramic path (step-by-step path to Self-realization).

What do the followers of kramic pathsay? Without pratyahaar (withdrawing all thesenses from their objects and make themsteady in one place; self-restraint), one cannever attain meditation, dhaarna (mentalretention) and samadhi (the state in which nosituation in the relative world affects the innerbliss), meditation will not happen at all. Whatdoes pratyahaar mean? All kinds of foodintakes for the senses must come to a stop(nirahaari). Now how many from us can dosuch a thing? These people want to eatdahivada (fried daal cakes in spiced curds),

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batakavada (fried spicy potato balls), theywant to see and do all this, and they want to goto moksha (final liberation) too. This is a science(vignan), and therefore, the two tasks of theknowing and doing are possible. Otherwise, itis not possible to continue these two taskstogether. Therefore, one eats peacefully whenfood comes in front of him. We are saying thatwhen you get a plate with dahivada then eatcomfortably, because Atma (the Self) is theknower of this, the Self is not the eater.

This is very straightforward path. Onedoes not have to do anything, and this path isnice. This is absolutely scientific. Nothing willsprout inside. Upon slightest dullness inawareness, it will start to sprout immediately.Then it is useless to have just a little awareness.The Self is the knower of the doer-sufferer

The eater is eating and I, the non-eatersimply am knowing him. Who is eating? Theeater is eating, the non-eater knows. If he iseating very little alpahaari, would the Self(knower, potey) not know that? So would henot know all this? What he is eating, would henot know that?

Questioner: He would.Dadashri: And he would know in his

mind only that, that ‘I am eating’, he wouldfeel thus. This is because as long as he is thedoer-sufferer (karta-bhokta) there is the, ‘Iam eating,’ and the moment bhoktapada (stateof sufferer) left, he became the knower (gnata)of the doer-sufferer (karta-bhokta)! The onewho does (doer, karta) suffers. Chandubhaidoes (through doership) and Chandubhai isthe sufferer (bhokta); the Self becomes theknower (gnata) of this.One protects his side by the belief, that

I am the eaterAt the time of eating, what do you end

up eating more?Questioner: In a way I eat more rice

than necessary.Dadashri: Is it Chandubhai who is over

eating or You? What is this that just happened?You believe yourself to be the eater. What doyou believe?

Questioner: The eater (ahaari).Dadashri: That is why you are being

partial, no? Where is the need for the non-eater (nirahaari) to be partial? The non-eaterknows where this eater is becoming partial?Why are you not speaking?

Questioner: That is right.Dadashri: You say ‘right’ afterwards.

Instead, what is wrong in speaking from thebeginning?

Questioner: Is it true that the prakrutiprefers this more and is pulled towards it,prefers this other thing less. But should I speakclearly during this conversation?

Dadashri: It does not happen like that.Because he is partial, he will not give the visato speak, for fear of becoming exposed.

In the least you should say that the eaterhas a nature that is prone to over eat, and heeats rice in excess, and takes this other thingless. What is wrong in that?

Questioner: I can say. That is right.Dadashri: What is a problem in

speaking the truth? And you are speaking alie. Is it not considered telling a lie?

Questioner: Yes.Dadashri: Yes, totally a lie.Questioner: As many wrong beliefs are

there, all that became lie only, didn’t they?Dadashri: These are not just beliefs;

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he behaves as that form.Questioner: Yes. He will verily conduct

himself as that, it is in conduct too.Dadashri: He is saying that I am being

partial. It is not a matter of belief.

What concern is it of the Knower?Questioner: This talk that has come

about, is very good. This talk that justhappened about mistakes in conduct (vartana,vartan), about belief and conduct, is verysubtle. The talk about partiality towards theeater- You said that the eater is partial, but theSelf is not partial towards the eater (the self).

Dadashri: What concern the Self hasin that? This is because the eater is eatingfood. ‘You-the Self’ are the knower of that!‘What he ate, what he didn’t eat, food is heavyor light, does he eat more lemon or that otherthing’, would You not know this? ‘He drinkseven two to three cups of tea.’ How can theSelf drink anything?

Questioner: So this means that the Selfknows through that awareness that these twothings are separate. So, the one who drinksthis tea is verily this (file) only, and that is notAtma (the Self) at all.

Dadashri: The separation is there forsure, after ‘I’ gave the Gnan!

Know that the eater is eatingWill he not have the awareness of who

am I? Am I the eater (ahaari) or the non-eater (nirahaari), when this awareness is notthere, such a small (!) mistake will not happen.How can it happen?

Questioner: This cannot be called asmall mistake at all.

Dadashri: It may be big!Questioner: Mistake means mistake,

where is the question of small or big? Todaythe talk came about, that ‘I end up eatingmore rice’. So what are all such mistakes, andhow are they considered?

Dadashri: It is a language (bhasha).But because of language he says, ‘I amBhartruhari (the King in the drama).’ But whydon’t you carry out the worldly interaction(vyavahar) of Bhartruhari? Then he wouldnot do, how would he? It is just a language,and the echo of language; in fact, ‘I am notBhartruhari.’

He says clearly that, ‘the eater is eatingfood.’ He says this clearly, but he speakssentence. Alpahaari (the one who is eatingminimal food), is eating less food (alpahaar).He understands, yes, this talk is right, but heyyou, try eating minimal food. So then You cometo understand that he ate this and ate that.

Even as it is, when the neighbor is eatingthen You will be at ease (nirant), no?Otherwise he will create a hassle. ‘I want togo to that restaurant, I want to do this.’ Hewill jump here and there. And once he ate,then?

Questioner: He will not shout after that.

Dadashri: Yes. Then, there is no troubleafter that. Then he will let you do satsang ifyou want to. If he ate a little khichdee andthis little vegetable then he will say, ‘Do satsangthe whole night’. See, is he not a very goodperson? Is he better than these relatives?

Questioner: Yes.

Difference between wholesale and retail

Dadashri: Yes, once in a while worry-externally induced difficulty- suffocation willhappen but it will not do like the loved onesand relatives would do, because there iswholesale of the loved ones and relatives and

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this is called retail. Yes, that means wholesale;they say bales and bales, don’t they?

Questioner: What is that? Wholesale?What are you trying to say?

Dadashri: Is there not a differencebetween retail and wholesale? Retail meansthey will let us go with a bag full. And wholesalemeans how can we carry a whole gunny bag?

Questioner: Wholesale for whichmatter?

Dadashri: In all matters, it is wholesaleonly. We have to go because we don’t haveany choice. If we get hungry then don’t wehave to go to the restaurant or fast food place,even if we don’t like?

Questioner: We have to find some way.Dadashri: We have to find a way, don’t

we? Now we see the fritters were fried withthe spilled sweat even then we have to eatdue to hunger, don’t we? You will eat, evenyou have seen the sweat drop in the fryingpan, will you not?

Questioner: That is because we don’thave a choice.

Dadashri: Or will one remain hungry?Questioner: No, he will eat because of

the hunger.Dadashri: There is no choice at all.

And if you do not feed the neighbor (the self)then ‘You’ will get into trouble. Therefore, Youhave to tell him, ‘eat comfortably, it is good,there is no problem.’ Does sweat drop ineverything? You have to feed him some wayor another.

Who is the knower of the taste?

Questioner: When the food is eaten,which part in the antahkaran knows all thephases of the different tastes of food, which

part knows the taster of the food? Does itknow which taste arose?

Dadashri: The Self knows whether thetaste is sweet or bitter, sour or bland. Its jobverily is to know.

Questioner: It is the job of the Self?Dadashri: Yes. It knows things whether

the kadhee has turned out good or bad, butit does not give any opinion that it is good orbad. It knows without any opinion.

Questioner: Is it the Self or the buddhi(intellect) that knows whether the cashew nutsare salty or spicy?

Dadashri: The intellect knows that. TheSelf also knows the knower. The Self knowswhat the intellect knows.

Questioner: Because even an agnani(not Self-realized) knows whether they are saltyor spicy.

Dadashri: It is the intellect that knowsthat. For a Gnani (Self-realized), He alsoknows what the intellect knows. ‘He’ knowswhat even the sense organs (indriyas) know.He knows what the senses tasted. He can see(know) all the different tastes.

The function of mind-chit at the time ofeating

Questioner: How does the chit, themind etc., work? When food is placed on thetongue, what is the function of the mindthereafter?

Dadashri: The mind will think, ‘overallthe food tastes good. It is sweet.’

Questioner: You said that the mindanalyzes everything and then presents it, sothen what is the function of the chit?

Dadashri: The chit has nothing to dowith it.

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Questioner: Why? The chit does nothave concern with what was just eaten?

Dadashri: The only thing the chit doesis that it latches on to good taste or bad taste.If the taste is good, it will become stuck there;the chit will get attracted there and lingersthere (najar laagi). The chit casts the lingeringhook (najar), not the mind.

Questioner: You say that the chit shouldbe present while eating food; then what is thefunction of the chit during eating?

Dadashri: To see what kind of tastesthere are in food? What tastes good?

Questioner: Is it not the function of theintellect to know about taste?

Dadashri: It is a collective function. Allthe work is in partnership. Whatever it latcheson to; if the taste is good, it gets stuck to it.Then it will come in the dream too.

No pleasure for the one in a hurry

Now what happens in the ignorant stateis that, one tastes it, that is all. Otherwise hewill not suffer (bhogavey) the pleasure ofanything. One feels that these laddus (sweetballs) are sweet, then say they are ‘nice’,‘excellent’, that is all. Poor fellow will not ‘see’what the taste is, because he is harried andhurried (raghavaat) all day long.

Now many people would just put achunk in a mouth and swallow it. They will nottaste completely. Now if they force then thewhole laddu will be engulfed in three pieces.One will just feel the sweetness that is all.Only that much can happen. In a way they willnot know the sweetness or the taste.

Now tell me, what pleasure is there ina harried and hurried life? Can a stressedand hassled person enjoy any pleasure(sukha)?

Sleeping at the time of doership;awakened at the time of suffering

Questioner: You talked aboutbecoming a bhokta (sufferer), so then at thetime of eating would one not becomeengrossed (tanmayakar)?

Dadashri: Yes, the one who becomesthe doer (karta) will not refrain from becomingthe sufferer (bhokta), will he? When we hadbecome the doer (karta) (in the past life) atthat time we didn’t know that we will attainGnan (in this life).

Questioner: Yes, that design wasdifferent at that time.

Dadashri: And he didn’t know that hewill become the sufferer (bhokta). Now whenone becomes the sufferer (bhokta), at thattime he says, ‘such thing happens to me.’ Ohmooah (Dadashri’s expression to awaken theignorant one), but you became karta that isverily why this happens.

Questioner: So I simply have to knowthat only.

Dadashri: You have to know.

Questioner: That’s all, that is over,there is no problem for that.

Dadashri: No.

Questioner: Dada, it remains like thatin the beginning. Gnata (the knower) willremain separate, but when it goes on a littlemore then it starts getting into bhoktapanu(state of sufferer).

Dadashri: Most of the time goes insuffering (bhoktapanu) only, because whenhe became a doer (karta), at that time hedidn’t have Gnan. And he became a sufferer(bhokta) and then he has attained Gnan. Gnanarose in the middle. And then he will scream

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that ‘I don’t want to become a sufferer(bhokta) and still I become that.’

But when you became a doer at thattime you didn’t have Gnan. If You had thisGnan on that day then You wouldn’t havebecome a doer at all. And You would notbecome a bhokta. Therefore, one will not haveall this awareness that on what basis it happenslike this. Everybody would not have awareness,some may have it, and some may not have it.Does awareness remain for you?

Purushartha of the Knower state

Questioner: When I start eating food,at that time I feel that the eater is eating, I amthe non-eater, but during the eating processthere is no awareness. Sometimes theawareness that ‘I am Shuddhatma’ may come.Then he will eat again, but the awarenesscomes again, otherwise it gets suppressedcompletely.

Dadashri: Now you would eatcomfortably. But compared to when you wereeating before and eating now, there is differencethat ‘the eater is eating food, I am not doingit’. It will remain in his awareness that ‘I amnot eating this food’. Before, ‘I am verily eating’that is what he used to say. The wedge hasentered through this Gnan. So that much benefithas happened.

Questioner: Continuous constantawareness does not remain that I have tocontinue seeing this only. Thereafter he wouldget involved in eating, but in the middle littlelike this will come in awareness.

Dadashri: I said, just now, in short,that when you were the doer, on that day youdidn’t have Gnan.

Questioner: And when I became abhokta then I attained Gnan. If we do littlepurushartha (being the Self through the Agnas

of the Gnani Purush) and if we make adecision (nischaya) then we can remain muchbetter in this whole process, is that right?

Dadashri: So at least do purushartha.After becoming a Purush, at least a littlepurushartha can happen. If you do certaindegree of purushartha then will the fruit ofpurushartha go away?

Questioner: We definitely can get it.

Dadashri: That too, only that the non-eater would know that the ganthia (fries ofchickpea flour, spiced) were not good. I saidthat, ‘The eater is eating. Alpahaari is eatingless’, didn’t I say? ‘Ganthia were not good’will one not know that? One can knoweverything. Even the one who does alpahaar(minimal food intake) would know thatchevado (rice-puffs, split gram, spices,cashews, raisins, nuts-all fried crisp, used assnack) has become stale. So then who knowsthat it has become stale? He will eat for sure.The eater will not have any awareness; theknower has the knowledge and the awarenessof it all. And this one (the one who has nottaken Gnan) says ‘I verily ate and I verilyknew’.

The knower and the sufferer are separate

The nature of the world is ingrained withinner pull (khench) only. Getting involvedwithin is the inner pull. Nothing will happen tothe ‘seer’ (jonaar). The taster (chakhanaar)will taste and the ‘seer’ will see. The eaterthat is eating whatever, in this body, is part ofso many accounts that are ongoing! There isthe one who tastes initially, there is the onewho savors the taste, and there is the onewho experiences! How many divisions arethere, no? The chewer will chew, the one withthe saliva will add saliva, enjoyer of the tastewill enjoy the taste (swad) and then again there

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is one agency. And then the knower will know,‘really what was the taste or what was not’!The one enjoying the taste will enjoy, he willnot know, he will become engrossed, he willcontinue to suck. That is separate. The oneenjoying (suffering) the taste is separate. Theknower is separate. Everything is separate.That is why even though very little food is tobe eaten, it takes half an hour for ‘us—theGnani Purush’ to eat! What is the reason forthat? We have to see the account all the wayuntil the state of ‘knowing’, ‘how is it, how isit not.’

Questioner: Dada, who is the boss ofall this?

Dadashri: Boss is the one who sucksthe taste (vedak, sufferer). The eater is eating,the non-eater knows.

Questioner: Who is the knower?

Dadashri: That is verily this pragnyashakti (liberating energy of the Self). It knowsthat ‘it was like this’. And until one has notattained Gnan, intellect knows that ‘it is likethis, like that’ and after Gnan, pragnya knows.‘The eater is eating food, and I the non-eateronly know that.’

So the feeling of hunger is more or less,it has started burning inside, ‘I (the Self)’ amthe ‘knower’ of that. Our science says so.How much liberation it grants us? It givesliberation in every matter.

What the knower would know?

Questioner: Dada, it happens to methat if some item is very tasty then I feel likeeating it more. I end up overeating.

Dadashri: The eater, the taster, thesufferer (vedanaar), and then the knower. Itis in four ways like this. The Self wouldcontinue to know. Vedanaar suffers, the taster

ego will do egoism, that ‘it is nice’, togetherwith intellect. Then the vedanaar (bhogavey)will suffer minimally and the Self would know.At the time of eating, ‘we – the Gnani and theabsolute Self’ eat little quantity but it takes along time, because we eat everything byknowing, staying in the state of the Self. Thesufferer-enjoyer of pleasure (here)bhogavanar will suffer (bhogavey) it, and theknower will know; we eat that way.

Questioner: What does this ‘knower’know?

Dadashri: How is this taste, how is itnot, how is this food?

Questioner: Does He only know? DoesHe not become engrossed in it?

Dadashri: He will know only. The‘knower’ does not have anything else. Hewould not have bondage at all. The vedanaar(the sufferer) will vedey, bhogavey (suffer).

Questioner: So Dada, the one who isthe vedanaar, that which is written that atma(the self) is a vedak, the property of vedakata(suffering) is mentioned, so it is themishrachetan (mixture of the Self and the non-Self), isn’t it?

Dadashri: It is in the worldly interaction.It is the one verily in vyavahar (worldlyinteraction), whether you say mishrachetanor power chetan.

Questioner: He is the sufferer(vedanaaro), but is the original Atma (the Self)verily the gnayak (the knower)?

Dadashri: He is the ‘knower’. Thatwhich remains the ‘knower’ in every situationis the Self.

Questioner: The taster is the ego(ahamkar).

Dadashri: Ego, with the intellect.

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Questioner: Ego with the intellect andthen how about the eater?

Dadashri: The eater, how can he eat?

Questioner: Pudgal (the non-Selfcomplex) eats.

Dadashri: The sensory organs(indriyas) do the eating.

Questioner: The sensory organs do theeating.

Dadashri: They will eat rotlo (thickbread)! The body will eat. This body will notknow at all, what it ate. Ginger was added ornot added inside, it would not know anythingall that. Fenugreek seeds were added in lentilsoup or not, it would not know anything. Theone that does not know is the eater and theone who knows is the taster. Are therefenugreek seeds in the lentil soup or not? Thusthe one who suffers (bhogavey) is the vedak(sufferer).

Questioner: The one who suffers(vedey), there is ego in that too, is there not?

Dadashri: Yes, but the ego of suffering(vedak bhaav).

Questioner: But the ego of suffering(vedak bhaav) and the gnayak (the knower)who knows, is that the pure Soul(Shuddhatma)?

Dadashri: The sufferer (vedak) is theone who suffers (vedey). Now the taster andthe sufferer (vedak) would be together.

Questioner: The taster (chakhanaar)and this sufferer (vedak)?

Dadashri: The taster tasted and if thetrain is ready to leave then it will remain in themind of that sufferer (vedak) that it was goodbut I didn’t eat, and that is the tuber of thesufferer. The taster tasted that it was tasty but

he didn’t get to eat. Ghaari (very rich flakesof donut like delicacy) was nice but he didn’teat. When he tasted it, he liked it; now if therewas a vedak (the sufferer), then he wouldgulp it down fast (train leaving), that is calleda vedak.

Questioner: When all are eatingtogether, sharing the same plate, the hand tendsto grab more.

Dadashri: Vedak will chew fast, it willcontinue to gulp down. And if there is theknower then it would take very long time toeat. We take fifteen minutes, twenty minutesor even half an hour. But, within half an hour‘our’ chit or mind or anything will not wanderout even for one second. The taster will tastethe exact taste at one place only. The food iseaten with complete taste. That which is nothelpful to the body will be left aside. There isno hassle or conflict of any kind. I do not talkwhile eating. More food was eaten becausewe talked today.

Questioner: You talked therefore youended up eating more?

Dadashri: Yes, because knowing didnot happen, suffering did not happen, only thework of the taster happened.

Questioner: Taster is the ego, Dada,isn’t it? The one who tastes, it is the ego, isn’tit?

Dadashri: All are the forms of ego only.But, at that time it will be considered like this.‘At least taste’ says the taster. He will tastemilk, a half a cup. It takes so long for me todrink. I am talking, but if I don’t talk eventhen how long it takes for me to drink!

The eater, the sufferer and the knower

The eater is separate, the feeder isseparate, the chewer is separate, the vedak

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(the one suffering) is separate; ‘You-the Self’are the ‘knower’ are separate…

Questioner: Who are all those? Whois the eater?

Dadashri: Can this table eat?

Questioner: No.

Dadashri: The one who eats will eat.That eater is separate from all these, ‘You’ arenot that too. The eater is separate from You.Then the feeder is separate. And the hand willdo the feeding. We do not have concern withother outsiders. The external feeders in fact,come under the ‘seeing’. In a way hand doesthe feeding. The eater and then the feeder, alldone?

Questioner: Yes.

Dadashri: Then the chewers areseparate, so the thirty-two teeth will chew.Then there is the sufferer Bavaji withinvedanaara. If something sweet arrives thenhe will enjoy. When the bitter comes then hesuffers (vedey), he will suffer (vedey)adversely. He will suffer (vedey), will he not?When the bitter comes he cannot tolerate andwhen the sweet comes then it is like that.Therefore, it is called suffering (vedakata).The sufferer (vedanaaro) of bitter-sweet. Theknower is the one who knows how the sufferer(vedanaaro) suffers (vedey). The knower is‘I’, ‘the Self’. That is who I am, the Gnaniwith the vedakata (suffering).

Questioner: Gnani? You just said he isa ‘bavo’ with the vedakata?

Dadashri: As long as there is that‘bavo’ there is the suffering (vedakata). Aslong as the Gnani is with ‘bavo’, there is thesufferer state (vedakata). And the knower isthe muda Purush (original Self), kevalgnanswaroop (absolute Self state). We remain in

that state of the gnata (knower) in knowingand the one who remains in vedakata. Whois that?

Questioner: This Gnani.Dadashri: Yes, Gnani.The one who knows is the Self; the one

who suffers (vedey), is ‘bavo’ and the onewho eats, is Mangaldas.

‘I’ the knower, know that this mathiyu(crisp uniquely spicy wafer thin deep friedsnack, orange gold in color made of lentil flour)was eaten, what kind of taste arose. The onewho knows this is the Self, and the one whosuffers (bhogavey) this is ego (ahamkar), the‘bavo’; so all these are separate. It isnecessary for the Self to remain separate, andin fact is indeed separate!

Questioner: The effect (asar) of hungerthat happens, who experiences that? Is itexperienced by Mangaldas or the bavo (ego)?

Dadashri: There is no familiarity ofhunger or anything in Mangaldas at all. Onlybavo would know everything. Mangaldasdoes not have any knowledge at all. Say forinstance, if there is an engine, and if oil in it isfinished, then will the engine know?

Questioner: It will not know; that isright.

Dadashri: After knowing the Self, whenMangaldas is eating ‘You’ should say, ‘eatbrother, eat slowly, and in a manner in whichyou will not have any stomach disturbances.’Then Mangaldas (the physical mind bodycomplex) also will become happy. He is avery good person! Why starve and troubleMangaldas at all?

Both function in separationThe knower will know everything and

the doer will do. The business of both of these

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is carried out together and simultaneously. Thedrinker of tea will drink tea and the knowerwill know how the tea was, simultaneously! Itwas strong or sweet, so the knower must bepresent at that time.

Questioner: This knower will be therefor sure, Dadaji. This is because He is totallyseparate for sure.

Dadashri: Do you understand about thedoer and the knower? His knowledge is withraag-dwesh (attachment-abhorrence) and thisone is vitarag (absolutely free fromattachment-abhorrence). He also has theknowledge too, the doer also has theknowledge but with raag-dwesh. The drinkerof tea drinks tea, so does he not know that?

Questioner: He knows.

Dadashri: But it is with raag-dwesh.Then he falls on its attributes, whether it iswithout sugar or sweet.

Questioner: Therefore the one whodoes anything, is separate.

Dadashri: ‘He – the non-Self’ isseparate and often times ‘we’ do not like iteither. ‘We-the Self’ are separate from him(the non-Self), even through opinion too.

What is the tendency of the eater?

All these people will eat up the wholedish of ice cream; they will not leave at all.

Questioner: They will eat the wholedish, very fast.

Dadashri: One spoon has not beenswallowed yet, and he will shove another onein the mouth. The sufferer (vedanaar) is there;he is in the state of suffering (vedak).

Questioner: He cannot afford if icecream dissolves outside, it is all right if itdissolves inside.

Dadashri: Similarly, there is the sufferer(vedanaar) again at the time of taking bittermedicine. He will make a face, close his eyesand drink that medicine. What will he do if hehas to drink bitter medicine?

Questioner: That face will become likethat only, Dada.

Dadashri: We say to him, ‘at least tastea little bit.’ I would know from the momentthe aroma arises from the entrance of thehouse. He will do like that even when hedrinks heemaj (smaller variety of myrobalan,Ayurvedic mixtures). Forget about bitter buthe will do like that even when he drinksheemaj. One has not kept the space to formthe prakruti (the balance in three proportionsof the non-Self complex). The food meant forintake should have had the constituents of sixtastes (ras) however these taste-induced juices(salty, sweet, bitter, sour, hot and astringenttaste induced internal natural juice flow) arenot being taken by people. Are people takingin these taste-juices?

Which juice-taste (ras) did I say?

Questioner: You said meal made withsix juice-taste inductions.

Dadashri: Bitter and others and thatother seasoned juice-taste.

Questioner: Seasoned juice-taste,means how does it taste?

Dadashri: Astringent (turo), closer toastringent. Astringent is included in that.Astringent juice makes space in the body, itcreates (extension) scope. If there is no scope-space, then astringent juice will create scope.

Questioner: So it will create a spaceso that it will throw out that other impuritieson the side.

Dadashri: It will remove out side.

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Questioner: It throws outside so thereis a space.

Dadashri: This creates space, so ourpeople should know the one who creates thespace.

Whose fault is it in the unfolding of karma?

This one is only the happy person. ThisChandubhai—Ambalal says, “‘You’ have togo deep. I will go ahead and eat.”

Bitter and astringent, one does not takein these two juice-tastes; and that is the reasonfor all these problems. But again, it is not goingto work just by knowing this.

Questioner: Then what should I do?

Dadashri: Previous karma willobstruct in the process, will it not? Yes, ifprevious karma did not come and obstructthen what was known, would have beensuccessful. Therefore, You have to say(converse with the self). Now the suffererwithin (the Gnani) vedanaar will say, ‘Thefault is not of this ganthia, it is the fault ofthis tongue. This tongue is not proper. Weknow that this is not the fault of kadhee (hotspicy soup with buttermilk, and chickpeaflour), this is the fault of the tongue. So wewould declare that ‘this is the fault of thetongue.’ Some people have a spoilt tongue,so they will say, ‘You have spoilt thekadhee.’ Hey you! Your tongue is crooked!Alas, how is going to have this relativeawareness (bhaan)? No one will say, ‘this isthe fault of the tongue,’ it will not even comein awareness. I would say to this lady that itis the fault of this tongue, your food item isgood.

What would I say? I would say that itis the fault of the tongue, and not her fault. Itis the fault of my tongue, I was saying like

that, wasn’t I?Questioner: That was not suitable

inside, other thing was not suitable. I tried tokeep changing everything, so it is the fault ofthe tongue only, is that so?

Dadashri: It is the fault of the tongue.In that, ‘we’ would know, whose fault it is.

Questioner: The fault of the tongue, isthat an effect of karma from past life(purvakarma)?

Dadashri: The fault is of the tongue!The tongue was spoiled because of unfoldingof karma. So the good thing will look (tasteor appear) bad.

Questioner: After this Gnan, how longcan one allow the intake of ice cream?

Dadashri: At the time of eating, if theeater and the knower remain separate then itcan be allowed until the end. And if the eaterand the knower become one then it shouldnot be allowed.

Questioner: In that case it is not allowedin by anyway.

Dadashri: Yes, otherwise how can we-the awakened Ones, let it in? One will pile itin, with the intense hunger! There is a scientificmethod for that, if one eats according to thatmethod, then there is no problem.

Questioner: Dada, ours is AkramVignan that is why we can actually let go of it?

Dadashri: That is verily why we can letgo. Other places, out there it will not work atall. It will not work in kramic. In kramic path,no ice cream-sweet, nothing at all, you cannottouch sweet at all. If you get tasty food inyour plate, food that you like then you shouldgive it to other person, and you have to eatwhat you don’t like, if you want to go tomoksha.

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Where does the mistake happen in thematter of eating?

When the mind asks for ice cream thenthat is what it wants; that does not harm thesiddhant (the incontrovertible principle thataccomplishes the ultimate goal) ofbrahmacharya (absolute freedom from sexualimpulses in mind, speech and body) too much.Go ahead and give it some ice cream, but nottoo much. Do not discourage it. You can evengive it two dishes. How many dishes do youneed?

Questioner: I eat as many as I like butI do not have a desire of eating more. If itcomes then ‘he’ will eat.

Dadashri: That is a race course.Questioner: But if it comes then ‘he

will eat’ means he will eat only when he has adesire, no? Is it going to go in on its own?When the stomach gets full then it stops. Butif it comes in front and if someone insists, then‘he’ will take it.

Dadashri: Yes, ‘it will come in front’!Praapt ne bhogavey - Suffer that which hasarisen in front (Sutra of Gnani PurushDadashri), one has become like that (!) Noother problem. If rotlo (thick bread) comesthen so be it and if ghee (purified butter) comesthen so be it.

Questioner: No, but Dada, he ate tenand then if eleventh (dish) comes in front, thenwhat should he do?

Dadashri: He suffers (bhogavey) whatcomes in front of him, that aspect is right, buteverything else where it slips, are all hismistakes only. The mind that wants to take itagain and again; all that is verily the mistake.You should always take its dose, whateverdose is considered in worldly interaction,otherwise would it not be offered from the

beginning? Then one will say, ‘No, we cannotgive that.’ Whatever dose is decided in worldlyinteraction, that should be taken, that’s all. Youdo not have bondage in that, but thereafter ifyou take again, then you slip. If one takesthree bowls of milk and keeps on taking thisand that, that means he slipped. I had seenthat he does not have desire the first time.May it be a rotlo or whatever, first time it isnot bondage, but second time is bondage, it isharmful. Greed (lobha) entered at that moment.

Questioner: If we have gone atsomeone’s home for satsang and they serveone-one dish ice cream to all, then all will takeit. Thereafter, again someone comes and asksthat now serve the second dish to all and theyserve second dish to everybody…

Dadashri: That is not a problem. Ourinner hook (dankha) should not be in that.But here we would have the inner hook. Forthat person I am noticing in worldly interaction,in a way he does not have desire in thebeginning but after this comes together, hewould have the inner hook. We should nothave inner hook-tendency. Do you have suchdankha?

Questioner: Very heavy.Dadashri: Yes, but You should continue

to ‘see’ that inner hook-tendency too. By doingthat, it will decrease. People cannot know evenabout this dankha, can they?

Questioner: They cannot.Dadashri: Did you understand all this,

and that later the greed happens? He lovedthe taste, so he will take again otherwise,generally he does not take. He does notremember the taste. So he does not feel that,that ‘I want this’ when it is not there.

Beware where titillation happensQuestioner: After eating one dish if

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someone insists and gives another dish and ifI refuse it, then is it considered interference inthat which arose spontaneously?

Dadashri: No, there is no problem ifthey offer with insistence. You do not haveany problem if they give another dish at all.But catch the account of your titillation(galipachi).

Questioner: Now I will mark, thatDadaji has said to watch out and check ifthere is the titillation for the next dish.

Dadashri: It happens to him, I had seenthat.

Questioner: Then it is right.

Dadashri: It happens to you, I had seenthat too. He too was sitting for dinner withme, so I had seen everything in the two ofyou. I would notice for sure. It would be inmy awareness. You did not have desire at firstthat you want to have such thing. Whatevercomes, so be it. You are right up to that point.But afterwards whatever that…

Questioner: Afterwards, the inner thinghappens.

Dadashri: That does not happen for‘us’. No matter what it is. No matter whatyou do, not anything extra. There is no problemif ‘he-the eater’ takes more food. Food is thesupport of our body. If it is good and if youate more then there is no problem. If you eatrotlo-lentil (daal)-rice-kadhee more, there isno problem. If it is tasty and you eat morethen also there is no problem. But there is aproblem of eating these ornamental (fancy)items. Ice cream etc., are fancy-ornamentalitems.

Questioner: There is a problem withornamental items.

Dadashri: Ornamental. But the mind

would be involved in the ornamental thingsonly, would it not?

It will make awareness dim

When one eats ice cream, it harms thatmuch too. How much benefit will you have ifyou drink hot water? That much harm happensin eating ice cream. Even then our people eatice cream comfortably, don’t they? And if theyget four dishes of ice cream then they willfinish them off, fast. Hey You! How can thisbe after attaining the Self? It makes theawareness (jagruti) dim. Awareness becomesdim by drinking cold drinks and all that.

Brain becomes dull by eating this icecream, cold air (air conditioning), all these.Ice and everything makes one dull. Therefore,stay away from this. You should tolerate heat,you should choose heat.

Questioner: We should choose heat?

Dadashri: Yes, because then only theawareness will start to increase, otherwiseawareness will become dim. If you eat icecream, if you eat ice then awareness willbecome dim. As long as you believe that icecream is beneficial, harm will continue. If coldair is believed to be beneficial then that willharm, if hot air is believed to be harmful thentoo it will lead to harm. You should prefer andpick warm air. We enjoy if this car is heated,because we have preferred and picked that.

Questioner: So Dada, we think that itwould be better if we have a cool airconditioned car for Dada.

Dadashri: No, no, no, no. I don’t likeair conditioning at all! I am the opponent ofthat. All this would start to become dull. Thiscold thing makes everything dull (jada) andhot things energize everything.

When we know the fact, it will stop by

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itself. By knowing and understanding well,what is beneficial, what is harmful, the selfdefinitely gains. We do not have to changeanything. We should settle whatever it is. Andif one does not have this Gnan (Self-realization)then it is better to take a vow or follow somediscipline. Those who have Gnan, they do notneed anything. They should stay close to GnaniPurush in satsang. With that, the self (atma)will cool down day by day.

Awareness of the Gnani at the time ofeating

It is not worth getting into-doing theslightest moha (illusory attachment). The mohawhich happens, should feel as if it has to be‘done’ without any recourse. Do you knowthat for many years I have been eating againstmy will?

It is just that when you serve, I eat alittle, so it will not look bad that I am wastingeverything. But that, I would be taking againstmy will and the day when the snack comes alittle stale then I would say, ‘very good thinghappened today.’ So instead of taking more,this much less is taken in.

What is the religion (dharma), nature ofthe physical body is that it will continue eatingif the food is good. However, I have (at mealtimes) certain restrictions. In one plate, thereshould be twenty tola (one tolo = 11.66 gm),including vegetables and everything else. Ifsomeone brings one tolo chutney (tasteenhancer mixed sauces, crushed, red or green),then I have to take one tolo of other thing(food item) out. If one tolo rotli (thin flat bread)is excess then I have to take out the other. Itshould not exceed 20 tola. Such is mydiscipline. Even at this age I should feel hungryat four o’clock.

My nature is such that when all the

‘petrol (petroleum-crude gasoline) is finishedthen I like to eat. Now if there is still thismuch ‘petrol’ (food energy) inside, they askme to eat. So every time I like to eat after thehunger arises. But often times I have to dosuch thing. So many times I eat very less eventhen many times…

Questioner: You do not feel hungry.Dadashri: No. So the hunger should

arise at the exact time. This has been the specialhabit.

When ‘we’ were doing business, onthose days ‘we’ were eating at ease at five-thirty. And there was no problem. Hunger didnot happen to rise at night either. This is justthat I ate in time in the evening, but even thenwith the concern that, will it digest or not?

Questioner: Should one not take carefrom the worldly interaction perspective if thisis harmful for the self?

Dadashri: We should instantly keep inour attentive mind (dhyan) that I will be ableto take only this much food. Before I used totake one rotli and this much rice. At this timewe stopped rotli but now I have to take onerotli and this much rice, in that if some personsays that I have brought this much food, andthis much of this, and when she comes toserve, then I would remove either rotli or riceor vegetable.

If someone leaves half a rotli extra inmy plate then I would remove vegetable ofthat equivalent weight, or I would remove daal(lentil soup), or kadhee, but I have never eatenmore than the (fixed) proportion, even onescheduled time. Now if you ask me to eatagain at your home, if I have come here aftereating, even then I can eat one laddu (sweetball) nicely.

Questioner: Dada, you know about

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DADAVANI

your proportion (pramaan; quantity level) butwe would not know what our proportion is atthe time of eating.

Dadashri: Therefore, I do plus-minus.If someone left something extra then I wouldnot say no to her, I would not be disrespectfulto her. And I would deduct that other fooditem, if I want to remain aware! ‘We’ remainawake during the whole night.

Questioner: Dada, mathiya came afteryou finished dinner, so how did you balancethat?

Dadashri: I eat so little that I can eatif I want to eat, again.

What does the principle say? Eat a hotsnack; don’t eat a cold one. But despite thisI feed ‘him-the eater’ two mathiyas (crispsavory thin fried wafer snack). If the mindsays it wants five; then ‘we’ say ‘later, notnow. After this Diwali’; I will even say thatmuch.

Questioner: No, so you had not keptthe space for mathiya from the beginning, didyou?

Dadashri: I had kept space enough ifI want to eat again. Some person says, ‘Please,can you sit again? No, you must take.’ Ifsomeone asks me to eat second time, thenthat much space we would have kept. That iswhy I say many times that ‘hunger is burningwithin’. Otherwise will he speak?

Questioner: No, he will not speak.

Dadashri: If he filled up the stomach tothe full, then will he say, ‘hunger is burningwithin?’

Questioner: No, he would not speak.

Right way of eating

Questioner: Dada, if hunger is burning

within for you and if it is possible to eat thenwhy do you not eat until the stomach is full?

Dadashri: Then what difference remainsbetween ‘us’ and a water buffalo? A waterbuffalo eats all that comes in front of it.

Questioner: But if you take a little morethen your health will remain better.

Dadashri: But then one becomes like awater buffalo.

Questioner: What happens to me isthat I end up eating less, I feel like there is stillsome space in my stomach. And then troublearises.

Dadashri: You have to make solutionfor that too. If you eat by chewing and chewingthen whatever amount you are eating now, eatthree-fourth portion of that by chewing, thenwith that much only the stomach will besatisfied. And you will derive the taste of thattoo. This is without taste, like the buffalo iseating a haystack, grass!

Questioner: Yes, it will be possible toeat by chewing.

Dadashri: Then why are you not eatingby prolonged chewing?

Questioner: I will eat from now on.Dadashri: We have to eat all things in

certain proportion. I have eaten only this muchkhichdee (dish made from the mixture of riceand lentil), that too by chewing a lot!

Questioner: Yesterday, the last portionof rice was left, and you made two portionsfrom that.

Dadashri: I had made two portions, soI can eat by chewing and again with awarenessof precise separation (joodoo-joodoo).

Questioner: This much cooked greenchick peas were there. You ate four-five times

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by chewing and we would finish them in justone spoon.

Who is in control in the matter of eating?

Questioner: My mind would showverily this that that much is not enough to fillthe stomach.

Dadashri: Mind will show all kinds ofthings.

Questioner: So what kind of adjustmentshould be taken there?

Dadashri: But do you have authority-control (chalan) in Your home or not? Noteven a little!

Questioner: Mind goes against thecontrol.

Dadashri: Just say that your control isnot there!

Questioner: Of course! I do have anycontrol- authority.

Dadashri: Oh, here comes the one withan authority! How would you have any control?

Questioner: But it goes against me, Iadmit that.

Dadashri: You do not have controlwhatsoever, do you?

Questioner: So from the timeimmemorial mind has formed a habit.

Dadashri: Why keep going around?Why you are not saying that, you do not havecontrol?

Questioner: How can the authority-control (chalan) come?

Dadashri: Authority comes, when Youkeep it (mind) under control.

Questioner: What should I do to keepit under control?

Dadashri: Starve it to death, do not letit touch food at all.

Questioner: It will be the stomach whichwill remain hungry, will the mind remain hungry?Who will remain hungry in that?

Dadashri: Whoever may that be!

Questioner: This body will remain, willit not?

Dadashri: We let it starve to death, sothen the mind will say, ‘If it is less even thenit will be all right. Can you give a little, it willsay. Give a little!’ Then it will beg for food. Sothen the authority-control will be yours.

Questioner: In this matter of eating, isthis the ultimate kind of awareness?

Dadashri: You do not have control, andyou are screaming for no reason. It is betterthat you have not got married yet. Aftermarriage you will not have control over theone who will you be married with too, noteven in the house. And you do not have controleven in this body. Should we not haveauthority? What do you think?

Questioner: We should, but when I sitto eat, I eat until the stomach is full.

Dadashri: That happens because thereis no chalan (authority-control). Even whenthis much food item comes extra in our plate,‘we’ take out other thing-food item. I tookeven this buttermilk, I took two spoons. Is thebuttermilk going to bite inside?

Questioner: What will be the problemwith buttermilk?

Dadashri: It will add more poison thanall those other items, so it will take controlover the whole night! If it is in excess then itwill take over control. But if ‘we’ let it add inexcess, then only, no?

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Questioner: This mind would be sayinganything inside, and I can see that. It will say,‘Often times I may or may not get breakfastin the morning.’ Again it will say, ‘If I eat lessthen my weight is not proper so I should eat.And sometimes if I didn’t get to eat food onone scheduled time or if I got late then therewould be trouble inside. The whole lamp willbecome dim.’ So it will show all such things.And then if some food item comes in frontthen he will eat until the stomach is filled andsatisfied.

Dadashri: Yes, but should we have ourcontrol or not?

Questioner: We should.

Dadashri: Or should you defecate rightthere in the conference where you have goneto listen?

Questioner: No, that cannot be done.

Dadashri: Should you relieve yourbowels right when the mind sends the signals,regardless of where you are? Should we nothave our control? If you had to empty yourbladder, then should you do right there only?Would you tell everybody that, ‘Excuse mebrother, I would like to go to the bathroom?’

Questioner: It remains straightforwardthere. It does not remain straightforward wherethere is loophole for insincerity.

Dadashri: There you keep it in control,then why don’t you keep it in control here?

Questioner: There I have that fear, thefear of insult that people will notice.

Dadashri: But there is a lot more insultin this. You do not have authority, is it just anordinary insult?

Questioner: Here there is nobody toscold us.

Dadashri: Oh! They are scolding a lot,but you are not able to listen at all. You do nothave control of your home (your world of thisone self). Why do you keep wanderinguselessly? They keep pestering; even then youare not able to listen.

Take over your control

Did you ever not hear that? You do havecontrol, don’t you?

Questioner: I should not listen to thatmind. But once in a while it happens. Hefollows some times according to the mind only.

Dadashri: He follows sometime only,not everyday, does he?

Questioner: In a way, not everyday.

Dadashri: For this person, it iseveryday, once in a while it is all right.

Questioner: But it happens like thatonly in the matter of eating.

Dadashri: This one does not haveauthority in the home (self) at all.

Questioner: That must be a weakness.How did that weakness arise? There is nocontrol; from where did that weakness arise?

Dadashri: Ask him only, will You? Hedoes not have control then where did theweakness arise from?

Still take over the control. Whereverthere is no control, start to exert your authority.Then You will be able to become independent,otherwise you will not. Other people havecontrol and you do not have control, how isit possible?

Questioner: I definitely want to createcontrol.

Dadashri: Then make it starve.Thereafter, slowly the mind will say, ‘Give at

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least some for the sake of living.’ Then yousay, ‘Yes, wait.’ It will say, ‘Four pooris (friedbread)’. Then you say, ‘No, only one.’ Thenit will say, ‘No, no, give me three, give methree.’ After then you can feed it three.

Questioner: This happened in thematter of food, did this not?

Dadashri: Then for which other matterdo you want?

Questioner: Other matter, many othersremain.

Dadashri: Once it settled in the matterof food, once it came under the control here,it will be under the control everywhere. Mind’scontrol is gone then there is no problem. Ifyour control begins on the mind then there isno problem. Then some day you will let themind have some self importance (rof) and say,‘I will feed you just for today.’

Questioner: I don’t understand exactlyhow much food should I take?

Dadashri: You keep singing your ownsong for no reason. Just see that Your controlis there.

Take food in accordance with theresolution

Questioner: Our control means this.‘He’ will decide that ‘I want to take this much(food) today!’ He will take according to thatonly, not more than that! Now by whichaccount and how to decide that I want to takethis much only?

Dadashri: You do say, don’t you, thatyou realize at the time of going to bed at night,that you ended up overeating.

Questioner: That I know at the end. Ido not know that at the time of eating.

Dadashri: Yes, but you do know the

next day, don’t you? That yesterday this hadhappened, therefore remove three pooris outof seven today. Does it follow you or do youfollow the dictates of the mind?

Questioner: For me too, ‘he-the eater’takes food as the mind dictates.

Dadashri: Is that so? Then it is goodfor you! Your salvation is done for sure then(!), no?

Questioner: But now, sometimes Istarve the mind and tell it, ‘you will not getanything to eat today.’

Dadashri: Yes, that is right. Then onlyit will remain in control!

Questioner: We don’t know suchexperiments. We feel that these are grossexperiments. Renouncing food, to eat less, oneshould not follow as per mind’s dictate, wefeel that all these experiments are gross-obvious(sthool).

Dadashri: But, where do you do suchthings?

Questioner: Now that you said, Iunderstood the importance that ‘this mind canbe completely subdued with this.’ When ‘my’authority arises then the mind gets subdued.

Dadashri: Right now it is only thechalan (authority-control) of the mind for sure.When the chalan becomes yours, then themind becomes subservient. These people donot have control even in eating. Therefore, theydo not have control even in this body, and noteven in the home and not even in the office.No control anywhere at all. What can theydo?

Questioner: Which one is difficult in allthese? Which one is the toughest out of three?

Dadashri: It is difficult in the matter offood. If you do not have control over the wife,

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DADAVANI

then you can gradually find some solution. Youcan get someone to show you the way. If youdo not have control in the office even then youcan find the way. Real control however, shouldbe on food.

Questioner: Authority-control (chalan)on the mind, does it mean I have to keep themind under control?

Dadashri: If you have decided that,‘Brother, today I want to take this much foodin this proportions’, then you should takeaccording to that. Others’ interference shouldnot be there.

Questioner: At the time of makingdecision, the mind will show me again, will itnot?

Dadashri: Once you have decided, afterthat, what?

Questioner: Who is the decisionmaker?

Dadashri: You.Questioner: Pragnya (liberating energy

of the Self)?Dadashri: No. Ego and intellect.

The method of coaxing the mind

Questioner: In which matters do I haveto keep control and in which matter I shouldnot?

Dadashri: When the mind gets veryirritated then you should give in once in a weekwith, ‘Brother, I will do according to yourwishes.’

Questioner: But that is very difficult.Dadashri: Why?Questioner: If I decide like this

everyday that I want to keep my authority andthen one day I have to let it be free, again the

next day I have to keep control, then therewill be a problem. Then the mind will takeover.

Dadashri: It will understand that ‘hewill stop completely therefore at least one day,so be it!’ If it understands your strictness, thenthere is no problem. It will totally get stoppedinstead one day is open, leave it, will you!What will it do on that day? It will not ask formore food, but it will say, ‘Let’s eat a littledosa (large crisp crepes stuffed with spicevegetables, common in South India)’. Thenyou say, ‘Everything, let’s go!’ So it will askin the middle for dosa too, so on that day youshould feed it a few.

Questioner: Ego plays a role in keepingone’s authority, does it not?

Dadashri: Ego and intellect, both.

Questioner: Does pragnya (liberatingenergy of the Self) play a role in that? Pragnyashakti will alert inside, will it not?

Dadashri: Pragnya is for mokshacurrent and ultimate liberation. What concerndoes it have in this?

Who cheats? Deceptive intent

Questioner: Who cheats that ego andintellect?

Dadashri: The mind, who else wouldcheat? That is because of not having control.No one is cheating. One does not have control,therefore stay and sit defeated. If this one hascontrol then he will shout, ‘Hey, who is it?Who is asking for more at this time? Be quiet.It is night, don’t you understand?’ You have tospeak like that inside.

Questioner: How can I bring aboutthat control? I cannot understand that controlexactly.

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DADAVANI

Dadashri: If you are not able tounderstand then let it continue the way it is!Am I going to scold you? Are you going toget a letter from income tax department forthis? Let us continue as it is!

Questioner: I cannot let it continue. Iwant to come in this satsang; that controlremains. Mind may show perhaps that ‘let’stake rest at home, for today’, but at that timemy control remains that ‘I definitely want tocome here.’

Dadashri: So you are exercising controlwhere you like and you don’t where you don’tlike, therefore your intent is deceptive. That iswhat I am saying, am I not? Otherwise, Youare the owner and how dare the mind shout atyou?

Questioner: Then I would not let itshout even a little. If that friend says, ‘I havethis work of five minutes,’ at that time, I wouldnot let it shout even in the slightest, I definitelyhave to go.

Dadashri: Yes, the intent is deceptivein this so the mind will ‘know’ that, ‘I havesucceeded, let’s go.’

Once your control is there, then there isno problem. Your control should be there. Thencontrol will be in celibacy (brahmacharya)too. Otherwise, one will follow inbrahmacharya according to mind’s dictatesonly. You cannot follow according to mind’sdictates in brahmacharya. Over there, youhave to follow according to goal, even throughego.

Questioner: There too sometimesweakness arises. It happens as per dictates ofthe mind.

Dadashri: May be, it may becomeweak. Whoever will have to lose, he will lose,what is your problem?

Questioner: I will be the loser for sure,will I not? The intent is deceptive, that muchhas been confirmed. What am I saying? If Ido this test then I will understand how it is.

Dadashri: You should not tease themind either. You should take work from themind with much care. And if you end up teasingand harassing it, then feed it a little ice cream.

Questioner: That is right. But if the mindhas to be controlled through ego and intellect,then mind will get irritated too.

Dadashri: If it gets irritated then youshould give it something. Again we wouldexplain and tell it, ‘Take ice cream, takesomething.’ Then it will say, ‘Give me threedishes.’ Then you have to say, ‘No, you willget half a dish’. It will say, ‘At least make afull dish, at least make a full dish. Will half adish work?’ Then you should make a full dish.

Questioner: So does it mean that Ishould do completely contrary to the mind.

Dadashri: Do whatever suits you! Idon’t have to do that. I showed you just now,didn’t I?

You succeed everywhere if you havecontrol here in this one thing

Questioner: That’s all, now I want tobecome independent. Now I understood thatI do not have control in matter of eating at all.

Dadashri: All those others, you haveconquered, have you not (sexual faults)?

Questioner: That I have conquered, ahundred percent.

Dadashri: Is that so? You haveconfidence of that? You conquered one, nowyou will win this. If you ever take control thenyou will not have problem in practicingbrahmacharya (complete freedom from

24 February 2011

DADAVANI

sexual impulses through mind-speech-body); Ihave confidence of that. If the mind has controlover the body then finished. If the control comesto the Self and the control of mind dissipates,then one is assured of everything else.

So then where is one’s own independence?

Questioner: Because the mind was inthe controlling role in the matter of eating, lotmore unawareness (ajagruti) was arising. Sothen I cannot win over anything else.

Dadashri: Then?

Questioner: So I have to conquer thismain fort. Once this fort of mind is conqueredin the matter of eating, I get control, then theother thing can become easy.

Dadashri: Yes, and if you do not havecontrol over body then your control will notremain in practicing brahmacharya at all.

Questioner: That is right. Now ‘on thebody’ means is that only in the matter of thisfood?

Dadashri: Then which other matter?

Questioner: I need clothes to wear,no?

Dadashri: No problem for that. Whatis the problem of clothes? This matter is themain thing. If the matter of tongue (food) istaken care of, then celibacy can be preserved!

Questioner: In the matter of food, is ittrue that one should take simple food or anysuch thing?

Dadashri: All is simple only. You donot take ghee-milk or heavy products like thatso it is simple only. One should not take oilyfood.

Questioner: Yes, he will take less oilyfood. He will take less sweet and savory dishes.

Dadashri: Even if not, if he takeseverything regularly, if he takes as per ourinstructions then there will not be problem. Hecan take a little milk, but as per our dictate,not as per mind’s dictate. Someone may saythat, ‘my stomach is not getting full!’ Heybrother, eat some bread so it will swell up likea balloon.

Now did you understand what mistakeremains?

Questioner: Yes, I saw the faults, sawthe mistakes and pratikraman for mistakeshappened with the live presence of ‘DadaBhagwan’ as my witness.

Dadashri: How far has it happened foryou?

Questioner: It is making progressfurther. It became very clear in the matter ofthis food. In the matter of food, the control ofmind became very up to date.

Dadashri: Did you take in experiencetoday?

Questioner: I decided that I want toeat this much and I want to eat by chewing alot.

Dadashri: Now you do not forget then!Did you ask or not, to the one (mind) within?Is it controllable or not? Should you not ask?

Questioner: That is right, I should ask.

Dadashri: Do you not ask? Stuffing injust like that! That fat man was very strong,how many dishes (ice cream) had he eaten?

Questioner: Fifteen dishes.

Dadashri: He will take fifteen. And ifone tells you that, ‘Eat third dish instead ofsecond.’ Oh brother, I am a skinny man, Icannot eat, and he is a big (fat) man, isn’t he?He ate fifteen dishes.

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DADAVANI

Questioner: Dada, I have contrary tothis that I cannot eat more at one sitting.

Dadashri: That is a different thing.Questioner: But, I like to eat if I get at

every alternate hour.Dadashri: Yes, but mind will feel (desire)

like eating, will it not? You are not eating, areYou? You should not follow the dictates of themind. You should do only that much which isbeneficial for your body, according to mind’sguidance. It will not benefit more than that, itwill cause harm. Mind will make you quit yourproportion but you should set your proportion.What is the mind going to lose? Only youhave to suffer the consequence, don’t you?

Questioner: Mind will move awaythereafter. If I follow according to the mind,then I am considered slave of the mind, am Inot?

Dadashri: So where is our indepen-dence?

Questioner: Not at all, slave (dependent)only!

No desire, yet mandatory

Spiritual lethargy (pramaad) means tokeep eating food for no rhyme or reason andso there is no order or discipline in anything.The whole day long he keeps stuffing himselfwith whatever he can put his hands on. Forso many past years I have been eating as alast resort.

I do not have any inclination and innerliking (ruchi) in eating any food item yet it ismandatory for me to eat. I do not like but Ihave to eat. I do not have any liking in all thisbut to suffer and become free from it. Even ifI don’t want to eat vedhami (wheatenflatbread with stuffing of mashed split pulseand jaggery topped with clarified butter), I

have no choice but to suffer (bhogavey) it.

Someone says to ‘us’, ‘Dada, do youwant this? You take this, take this.’ But forwhat I want all this? Just one rotlo and thislittle vegetable is good enough for me. Why allthis trouble, thirty-two varieties of delicacies?But it is her wish so she will serve. She willserve, so we will take a little. We do not needany such thing because the eater is eating, isn’the! Where am I eating? The eater will eat. Sothe eater does not say that ‘I want this.’ Yes,the brokers say like that, the brokers!

Cancelled the brokers

Questioner: The middlemen brokerssay that, ‘I want such thing to eat and likethat?’

Dadashri: Yes. So all those brokerswere there, we cancelled them. We do notwant you to do the pleading, if you want tostay then stay. So then all are gone. What canthey do otherwise? How many days they canstay at one place?

However much Dada earned thebalance that much he will show it to others,how much he will show, however much balancecame, that much he will show. It will showless if it came less and it will show more if itcame more. Did balance come for you a little?This is for highly elevated living beings tounderstand, for the one who has sharp intellect,minute understanding.

We have value for even two minutes,don’t we? If upayoga (applied focusedawareness as the Self) goes out for twominutes even then we do not like. We do notlike if it goes outside to wander needlessly. Ifone is hungry, even then if upayoga goes outthen it is considered a fault. When it (food)comes in your plate at that time You have tokeep upayoga.

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DADAVANI

This is how upayoga is lost while eating

Questioner: You are constantly insamadhi (state of being unaffected despite allexternal or internal turmoil and in oneness withthe Self), You are in the upayoga, are Younot?

Dadashri: Fruit of upayoga is samadhi.So there is no need to remain in samadhi.Just remain in upayoga. If You remain inupayoga, then the fruit of that is samadhi.Samadhi is the fruit.

Questioner: Yes, now when You werein upayoga, and desire to eat shingoda (boiledwater chestnuts) arose; was it while remainingin upayoga?

Dadashri: No, upayoga stopped there.

Questioner: So then, is there not adesire to eat shingoda while maintaining theupayoga?

Dadashri: No, that upayoga stopped.

Questioner: Upayoga stopped, howis that possible? Dada’s upayoga is alwaysthere, is it not?

Dadashri: There cannot be twoupayoga at one time. Upayoga can be insome situations and not in some situations, butin the case of shingoda, I did not have theupayoga.

Questioner: So then, that means that,whenever one has such a desire, upayogastops.

Dadashri: No, it is not even like that.That desire is different thing, and upayoga isa different thing. Many times, upayoga doesnot even stop, even when there is a desire. Itdepends on what kind of internal force thereis.

Questioner: When you are eating,certain things are in front of you, and you feelI want to take this, I want to take that…

Dadashri: He can remain in hisupayoga and eat. One will lose his upayogawhen it is something that he loves. When Idecided to eat shingoda I lost the upayoga.

Questioner: So it is like lovingsomething a lot.

Dadashri: No, not love, but it is slightlove for it, and that is why ‘he- the eater’(Ambalal) got up. Otherwise, he was nothungry. One can understand that he got upbecause he was hungry. Therefore, it is stillconsidered upayoga. This was ordinary.

Questioner: He (Dada) is eating andat the same time he is talking…

Dadashri: Upayoga cannot bemaintained at that time, how can it?

This is how upayoga is maintained whileeating

What does upayoga mean? How is theeater eating? What is he becoming restless in?What does he derive most pleasure from?How does he eat some things and not others?What exactly is its taste? He maintainsupayoga like that. One should eat withupayoga. I have not seen anyone eat withupayoga. He eats fast like a machine. Eatingand drinking should all be with upayoga. Thereis no problem if you cannot, but it is worth ifjagruti arises. ‘We’ do not tell you to correctthe mistake. Just make sure that You have theawareness not to do it again. Mistake will stillhappen again. You still maintain jagruti, thatwhat Dada has said, it does not happen. It isstill considered jagruti. ‘We’ never talk whenwe are eating. Whole upayoga is lost whenwe talk.

February 2011 27

DADAVANI

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Questioner: Ours goes into the talking.

Dadashri: Yes. But it is the same.Upayoga goes away into wrong direction forthe people. You do realize that you cannoteat while maintaining upayoga?

Upayoga (applied awareness) means;who am I? Who is the one eating? What is theone eating, interested in? If he does not likethe taste, tell him that it is good. You have toknow all that, with awareness. But if you canremember this much, we tell you that it is morethan enough. Even if you say, ‘Whatever Dadatells, I am not able to do that’, then that ismore than enough. That upayoga does notstay.

Questioner: But Dada, if we haveguests, they are talking to us while we areeating, we have to talk to them.

Dadashri: If they try to talk, tell them,‘Why don’t we discuss later with ease’.

Questioner: If we are sitting across eachother, and the other person keeps talking, thenwe have to talk to him.

Dadashri: Tell him to first finish eating.What is the hurry, we can talk at leisure later.Have you ever maintained jagruti while eating?But it does not. Whoever’s beginning is notcorrect, then he will not have the jagruti,upayoga will not become still.

Questioner: But that upayoga shouldremain in every kriya (that which happensthrough mind, speech and action); the shuddhaupayoga (pure applied awareness of the Self),no?

Dadashri: What I am saying is that itshould remain in certain actions. It shouldremain in the large actions like eating. Butupayoga does not remain, and chit hasbecome lose. It cannot be maintained ineverything, but it should remain while eating.Then talking should also be done withupayoga.

Questioner: When one starts talkingwhile eating, he loses the upayoga. Now, ifone does not have such understanding, thenhe thinks that he is properly in Gnan, he hasthe awareness. But he does not realize theseintermediate mistakes.

Dadashri: Lots of mistakes. Manymistakes will happen. Awareness will makeYou aware, but many other mistakes are there,are they not? That is why we keep talkingabout this. Awareness will go there if Yourecognize the mistake. Until one recognizesthe mistake, darkness remains. That is why‘we’ repeatedly caution you. So that you canrecognize your mistakes from that and thenYou can remain aware of them.

~Jai Sat Chit Anand

28 February 2011

DADAVANI

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