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“Never Mind the Ethno Stuff— What Does All This Mean and What Do We Do Now?” “Never Mind the Ethno Stuff— What Does All This Mean and What Do We Do Now?” Ethnography COMMERCIAL —in the— Ethnography COMMERCIAL —in the—

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Page 1: “Never Mind the Ethno What Does All This What Do We ...psztar/DBC/blythin.pdf · The Case Study This article reports on a research project in which ethnography was used to inform

“Never Mind

the Ethno

Stuff—

What Does

All This

Mean and

What Do We

Do Now?”

“Never Mind

the Ethno

Stuff—

What Does

All This

Mean and

What Do We

Do Now?”

Ethnography

COMMERCIAL—in the—

Ethnography

COMMERCIAL—in the—

Page 2: “Never Mind the Ethno What Does All This What Do We ...psztar/DBC/blythin.pdf · The Case Study This article reports on a research project in which ethnography was used to inform

39

c a s e s t u d y

In computer-supported

cooperative work (CSCW),

ethnography has received serious

attention as a method

of informing system design,

bringing a social dimension to

the design process by focusing

on how work is actually done

rather than looking at these

processes through some

idealized organizational view.

However, the method has been,

for the most part, confined to

research environments rather

than more directly involved in

the commercial world.

WORLDWORLDSteve Blythin

Mark Rouncefield

John A. Hughes

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40 i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

THE SETTING

The organizational set-

ting was one of

tremendous change.

The bank, facing increased

competition from new finan-

cial organizations and a host

of niche-market suppliers, saw

a need to change its culture

from predominantly adminis-

trative, in which the chief

function was perceived as the

safe and orderly handling of

customer accounts, to a selling

culture that emphasized selling

a range of financial products.

The most significant organiza-

tional developments were

heavy investment in informa-

tion technology (IT) and the

centralization of ‘back office’

processing in centers specializ-

ing in a particular area (lend-

ing, service, and securities) and

servicing ‘main street’ cus-

tomer service branches. The

research focused on the ser-

vice center that handled the

routine, administrative work of

managing accounts. In this

particular setting the work was

spread over four floors of a

modernized office building.

Each floor was devoted to a

particular type of work, for

example, opening and closing

accounts or regular payments,

in an arrangement that was, at

least in its general detail, com-

mon to all service centers.

THE ETHNOGRAPHICFRAMEWORK

The purpose of ethnog-

raphy is to carry out

the detailed observa-

tion of activities within their

natural setting. The aim is to

provide details of the routine

practices through which work is

accomplished, identifying the

contingencies that can arise,

how they are overcome and

accommodated, how divisions

of labor are actually achieved,

how technology can hinder as

T h e C a s e S t u d y

This article reports on a research project in which ethnography was used to

inform changes in management practices within a large retail bank.

The research project was part of the Department of Trade and

Industry/Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Center Initiative

on CSCW carried out by a consortium of NatWest Bank, the Centre

for Research in Computer-Supported Cooperative Work at Lancaster

University, and Syncho Ltd., a management consulting firm. As pro-

ject manager, Steve Blythin’s role was to present the output of the

research for his superiors at the bank. Indeed, it was at Blythin’s first

debriefing that a senior executive uttered the words used in the title of this arti-

cle. It was a refrain subsequently echoed both within the bank and from other

industrialists. The ethnographers, who have a research background, tended to

believe that their role was to analyze the work setting and that the role of the

organization was to respond however it chose. It was no part of the field work-

ers’ brief to become too closely involved with the real world of organizational

change. However, with sympathetic but firm pressure from Blythin, the ethnog-

raphers began to contribute much more to the process of organizational change.

What follows is an illustrative case study of the enhanced role of ethnography

in informing real world organizational change.

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41i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

well as support activities, and so

on. The focus is social, empha-

sizing the “situated” character

of work and the judgments and

discretion routinely employed in

response to everyday contin-

gencies. This enables the ethno-

grapher to identify the

cooperative aspects of “real-

world” work, such as small-

scale constellations of

assistance, the deployment of

local knowledge, the skillful

awareness of others, and so on,

that support the actual perfor-

mance of work activities.

The value of ethnography in

organizational and system

design is a matter of some con-

troversy. Although the authors

strongly support the method,

the role of ethnography as we

have hitherto practiced it is pri-

marily an informational input

that can also be of critical value

in making visible the real-world

aspects of a work setting. Such

modest claims, however, also

need to recognize that there

are clearly a number of prob-

lems in enabling others—such

as designers or the business

world—to use ethnography,

not the least of which involve

time, scale, and vocabulary.

Ethnography is directed toward

producing a “rich” portrayal of

the situation. Those interested

in commercial organizational

redesign, however, will often

be primarily interested in rapid-

ly and succinctly ascertaining

aspects of a process that are

useful or problematic to meet-

ing the particular problem at

hand. They also need practical

policy recommendations, as

reflected in the statement,

“What does all this mean and

what do we do now?”

The need to increase the util-

ity of ethnography has spurred a

number of developments that

allow the results of ethnograph-

ic studies to be structured for

presentation in a manner that

makes them more digestible in a

commercial context. Over some

years we have developed a set

of thematics to help organize

the very rich materials that

ethnography typically provides.

They include distributed coordi-

nation, plans and procedures,

and awareness of work, all of

which are discussed in the fol-

lowing sections.

Distributed CoordinationDistributed coordination refers

to the ways in which work

tasks are performed as part of

patterns of activities in division

of labor. It denotes a common-

place feature of all work set-

tings, namely, that tasks,

activities, and persons are

embedded within some type

of organized ensemble. They

have to be seen not as isolated

tasks, activities, and persons

but as socially organized tasks,

activities, and persons. This

means that coordination is an

inherent feature of the work

and much of this consists in

distributing information to rel-

evant parties. Keeping a steady

flow of information as a rou-

tine state of affairs in order to

“get the work done” is a

major feature of work.

PaperworkGiven the central role of coor-

dination within work, it is

important to identify the fea-

tures that affect coordination.

Notable coordination aspects

include the ability to monitor

the activities of others and

access to shared and available

information. Most of these are

accomplished through paper-

work. A prominent feature of

everyday work throughout the

bank is the completion, pro-

cessing, and duplication of

enormous amounts of paper,

which is so significant that

completion of paperwork con-

stitutes ‘the work.’

Fieldwork highlighted sever-

al problems with the routine

completion, distribution, and

coordination of paperwork, as

the following extract illustrates:

Next:

Recall of salary— “..normally

this should be done by our

SO section—but in view of

the numbers they can’t

cope…”

“I hate it when sections don’t

do what you ask them to

do…the customer was sup-

posed to hear 2 hours

ago…(I’ll) have to check up…”

“We’re not a process section

…we’re only a contact point”

“You can’t rely on the forms

going to the right location…

because of change of

address (ISS not updated)

or they get lost in the

post…”

One of the interesting

issues here is the impact of

perception (in this case, that

Standing Orders [SO] can’t

cope with the numbers) on

team working and its contribu-

tion to a “blame culture” that

reduces confidence and trust

within the organization. For

c a s e s t u d y

“Ethnography is directed towardproducing a ‘rich’ portrayal of the situation.Those interestedin commercialorganizationalredesign…willoften be primarilyinterested inrapidly and succinctly ascertainingaspects of a process that are useful or problematic…”

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42 i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

example, many problems were

routinely attributed to mail

sorting. For those in the mail-

room, however, errors were

regarded as both relatively

small (“Our error rate is about

1 percent”) and due to using

either temporary, untrained

staff or staff from other units

who were prone to “misfiring”

(putting post in the wrong

pigeonhole), simple confusion

(“They’ve seen a credit and

some checks ... but they didn’t

see they’re on a foreign

bank”), or “dumping” the

mail when they were recalled

to their own units.

Buck Passing and theBlame CultureCentralizing many of the local

branch functions at service

centers had some unfortunate

side effects, most notably the

emergence of a blame culture,

a culture of passing the buck.

Poor communications led to

the lack of a consistent, cus-

tomer-centered approach and

discouraged team working

across organizational units.

Collocation often creates and

encourages particular, often

fierce, group loyalties and the

development of an “us versus

them” attitude, where “them”

is any other unit within the

organization who “don’t

understand the pressures we’re

working under.” The mailroom

and the Records and Standing

Orders sections were all held

responsible for work difficulties

and—a particularly sore point—

for the poor results of inspec-

tion of the service center as a

whole and its failure to secure

a bonus payment.

The attenuation of lines of

communication was not helped

by spreading the center’s activi-

ties over four floors. Often this

meant that the bank was not

able to respond quickly or in a

particularly informed fashion to

urgent customer requests. With

processing so dispersed,

responsiveness depended on an

individual’s recognizing the

urgency of an issue and arrang-

ing to have the relevant docu-

mentation taken around to the

different sections. For example,

one of the mishandled sorts in

the mailroom was a check for

£1.5 million, which, if the

supervisor had not understood

its importance and arranged for

it to be delivered immediately

to relevant sections, would

have simply waited until the

next mail run.

Plans and ProceduresPlans and procedures refer to

the means by which distrib-

uted coordination is support-

ed. Project plans and

schedules, instruction manu-

als, job descriptions, formal

organizational charts, and

work flow diagrams are mani-

festations of some of the orga-

nizational artifacts designed to

make work orderly. Their pur-

pose is to provide a statement

of responsibilities, timings,

schedules, and interdependen-

cies through which coordina-

tion can be achieved. They try

to make a division of labor

coherent and may well also

claim to meet various efficien-

cy criteria.

For much of the time, pro-

cedures are routine and carried

out without undue reflection.

But there are occasions when

the procedures become explic-

it, as in the following example,

in which a worker is justifying

why a check cannot be

processed at that time.

On phone to xxxx Center:

“No you can’t…because it’s

past 3 o’clock and the cut-

off time and they won’t

accept the instructions…”

“…that’s why you’ve got a

cutoff of 12 o’clock…so

that we’ve got 3 hours to

get the paperwork and

phone work done..”

“…sorry about that but it

is the rule…”

Plans and procedures quin-

tessentially concern coordina-

tion. However, “the plan” is an

abstract construction that, to

be given life, will require prac-

tical application to the specifics

of the circumstances in which

it is to be followed. ‘Following

a plan’ will always require

more than can possibly be

specified within it. The use of

plans in real-world, real-time

activities typically involve

spelling out the plan by those

familiar with the circumstances

who are sufficiently trained in

the tasks involved, and a host

of other considerations.

Plans, Procedures, andLocal KnowledgeAccomplishing a plan depends

on the practical organization’s

members practical under-

standings about what the plan

specifies in these circum-

stances here and now, using

these resources, these people,

along with the other relevant

specifics. The ‘just what it

takes’ to implement the plan

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43i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

or procedure is what it takes to

‘make the plan work’ through

all the various contingencies

that can and do arise as the

‘unplanned’ obduracies of

organizational life.

Real-world, real-time work

often involves the use of local

knowledge, sometimes inter-

preted as cutting corners or

bending the rules to support

the overall objective of the

rules or procedures, as in the

following example.

Filling in Query Form:

“That’s one of our regulars…

she always has queries…

because she doesn’t bother

to look it up” “Also, if she

doesn’t get an answer quick-

ly enough she does the

query again and doesn’t tell

us so that 2 of us can be

doing the query…”

“She said she hadn’t had an

answer and I couldn’t

remember it so I looked in

the Query log…”

When plans and procedures,

and their associated decision-

making, are placed within their

social context, they come to be

seen as elements that enable

workers to make sense of their

own and others’ work and to

decide on appropriate courses

of action. It is important to see

how plans and procedures are

interwoven into highly variegat-

ed patterns of social organiza-

tion. How and in what ways, for

example, plans and procedures

are related to the sequentiality

of work; how and in what ways

they formulate the interdepen-

dencies of work; how they

identify problems of various

kinds; how they make work

accountable, open to criticism,

and so on. Plans also develop in

real time as it becomes clear

what the plan ‘really’ specifies

and its interdependencies. In

the process, additional work

loads of coordination are often

created.

It will come as no surprise

that plans and procedures can

also be a source of immense

frustration and annoyance,

particularly when they are

strictly implemented. The field

work identified ample

instances of the use of local

knowledge, “gambits of com-

pliance,” and so on, as fea-

tures of everyday work of the

center. A noticeable feature of

the center was its fairly rigid

adherence to plans and proce-

dures. As one assistant manag-

er commented:

“We piss a lot of people off

because we do things

right…(in the old days of

the branch) (a big customer

could phone up for money)

and whenever they phoned it

was singing, dancing and

taking your clothes off…

when we came here and they

phoned up and said can we

have £2 million today I said

‘No.’ ”

“We do things right, we do

things by the book and it

upsets people…particularly

people in Corporate…they

can’t use their superiority

and clout to do things…“

Or another, and frequent,

example from Records:

Next: Mandate from XXXX

Center not properly com-

pleted

On phone to XXXX Center:

It’s not my rules…

Audit… aren’t going to

accept that…”

Awareness of Work

“I think I’ll put a note saying

‘please put something

because we’re not psychic.’ ”

Another perspective on the

social organization of work—

and one obviously closely relat-

ed to the themes of distributed

coordination and plans and

procedures—is awareness of

work. This notion refers to

how work tasks are made

available to others and the

importance that this can play

in real-world, real-time work.

Awareness of work is a theme

that also involves interactional

subtleties and is a significant

means by which the coordina-

tion of work tasks is achieved

as a practical matter. The vari-

ous ways in which awareness is

developed, in which it is made

public and available to others,

are essential ingredients in

‘doing the work.’

One aspect of awareness

that was particularly important

to the bank, with its complex

and highly distributed division

of labor, was an awareness of

what work had been accom-

plished before it was handed

c a s e s t u d y

“Real-world, real-time workoften involves the use of localknowledge, sometimes interpreted as cutting cornersor bending therules to support the overall objectiveof the rules orprocedures…”

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44 i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

on to someone else and,

importantly, what happened to

that work once an individual or

a team had done its task suffi-

ciently so that others could do

their work. In this respect, field

work revealed a number of

failures, such as the following.

Chat with colleagues re:

codes; have been returned as

wrong; looking at Action

Sheets and reading out

codes:

“…they say it’s causing

inaccuracies to the bank’s

regulatory and statistical

reporting…they should tell

us what they think it is…“

Still looking at Action

Sheets: “What do we do if we

think the codes are right?”

“Give them a ring and ask

them.”

Phoning…explains “…so I

don’t know what you want us

to change it to…it just says

here it should be changed…

so if I think it’s right I just

leave it?”

Talking to colleagues:

On the phone again: “…t is

on the code grid.”

Goes to get Action Sheets

again: “…have we got time

to piss about with this?…

she says it’s on Table 3…”

Looking at sheets: “Where’s

Table 3?”

On phone: ”It comes under

EU? Even though it says

National Bank of XXXX?”

(Because they do not have

offices it comes under “‘over-

seas.’”) Writes number on

sheet: “Where’s that listed in

the codes then? Cause we’re

going to get loads of these.”

Talking to colleague: “Have

we got time for that?…”

“What a palaver… I don’t

know why they don’t just

write it on.” “Because it’s

easier to just send it out.”

One way in which visibility

and intelligibility are achieved is

through the ecological distribu-

tion of work and its activities.

This refers to the ways in which

the physical location of work

sites can facilitate or hinder the

ability of workers to gauge the

state of each other’s work by

seeing what colleagues are

doing now and how this fits

into their own pattern of work.

Many of the affordances that

arise from the physical layout

of activities arise simply by the

collocation of a collection of

persons ‘doing much the same

things’ or who are performing

interdependent activities. Being

able to ‘ask for advice’ just

when it is needed, updating

colleagues as one is passing, or

dealing with an emergency

when ‘all hands are needed’

are all informal, often intermit-

tent events that can be facili-

tated by the appropriate spatial

layout of work areas. Similarly,

the condition of desks, looking

in a particular filing cabinet,

working through a pile of

paperwork, and more, furnish-

es information about what the

person is doing, where he or

she is in the stream of work,

and how busy he or she is. In

subtle ways, this information is

available as a resource for judg-

ing whether, for example, “we

are on top of the work” or

whether “we are behind.”

The point we want to make

is that these affordances are

not necessarily planned or

designed—although they can

be—but are rather features of

the ecology of work that can

be used in the day-to-day col-

laborative ‘doing of the work.’

For example, members of

teams would often recognize

the ‘busyness’ of colleagues

and take on some of their

load. The physical separation

of supervisors from their teams

in some sections meant that

they relied on this type of

informal teamwork or constel-

lations of assistance because

they were in no position to for-

mally determine the progress

of the work. Awareness of

work in the ways we have just

sketched was not facilitated by

the distribution of the work

over the four floors of the

building and did much to

encourage the blame culture

discussed earlier.

The categories just dis-

cussed loosely align with

potential organizational design

issues and recommendations.

The emphasis on distributed

coordination highlights sup-

port for action and tasks with-

in the system.

Highlighted here are the

manner and means by which

work is coordinated and its

implications for support, rang-

ing from simple coordination

mechanisms to more proce-

dural work flow systems. The

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45i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

emphasis on plans and proce-

dures highlights the relation-

ship between users and the

formal representation of their

work. This relationship is rich

and complex, emphasizing the

difference between formalized

descriptions of work and ‘get-

ting the job done.’ Knowledge

of this distinction and what it is

to ‘do the job’ is central to

design decisions. The emphasis

on awareness of work reflects

the importance of the public

nature of work and its visibility

to others. This need for aware-

ness contrasts with traditional

individualistic approaches to

work design. Highlighting the

need for sharing promotes an

awareness of the activities of

others and emphasizes the

fundamentally social and

cooperative nature of work.

c a s e s t u d y

Mark Rouncefield

Centre for Research in

Computer-Supported

Cooperative Work

Department of

Sociology

Lancaster University

Lancaster LA1 4YL

+44-15-2459 4186

Fax: +44-15-2459 4256

[email protected].

ac.uk

Steve Blythin

Project Manager,

Support Services and

Design,

NatWest Bank Plc.

Network Strategy &

Development,

101-117 Finsbury

Pavement

London EC2A 1EH

+44-374-245375

Fax: +44-171-7148617

[email protected].

co.uk

John Hughes

Sociology Department,

Lancaster Universtiy

Lancaster LA1 4YR.U.K.

+44-524-594174

Fax: +44-524-594256

j.hughes@lancaster.

ac.uk

The preceding description of the casestudy barely does justice to the find-ings of the field work. However,

through discussions with the bank’s projectmanager a set of recommendations was for-mulated for the management group of the ser-vice center. What became clear was that thelarge-scale strategic changes that the bank wasundergoing had created organizational prob-lems that impinged directly on middle levelunits and their managers who were ultimatelyresponsible for implementing the necessarychanges in working practices. This level ofmanagement was involved in managing con-current changes in procedures, culture, andtechnology that were not and could not be inphase with each other. “Implementing theplan” was, in effect, ‘fire fighting.’

Accordingly, the role of the field workturned out to be to provide senior manage-ment with a picture of how the work was cur-rently carried out, which then served as abaseline for recommending changes in thepatterns of working. Among the more salientaspects was the lack of communicationbetween the various units of the center andhow “functional baronies” and a blame cul-ture served to hinder the smooth interdepen-dence of work flows. However, “lack ofcommunication” is hardly a diagnosis specificto the particular problems faced by this ser-vice center. A set of practical recommenda-tions was required that, if not spectacularly

radical, at least offered the prospect of“doable” incremental changes for this center.

CommentsIt would be wrong for the reader to infer thatall of the specific recommendations set outabove were directly derived from the ethno-graphic field work done at the center beingstudied. They were also informed by researchin other areas of the bank. When tried else-where, for example, the job swaps at the cler-ical level were viewed as successful; the mainbenefit was an increased awareness of thework of employees at other sites. As one cler-ical officer summarized the experience:

“…It was a good eye opener because

I’ve never worked there when it was a

Branch… and it really shows you up all

the problems that they can have…we

think that they do interview and then come

out and then write the interview up…

whereas they come out from doing an

interview and find that they’ve got to go

to the counter or answer inquires:so it was

very helpful for seeing problems for the

other end.”

Besides this general empathy was a devel-oping recognition of work as a cooperativeprocess and knowing its importance for com-pleting work and passing it on in a state thatenabled others to do their work effectively.Similarly, the multifunctional managementteam also proved to be such an effectiveforum for discussing areawide progress and

R e c o m m e n d a t i o n s

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46 i n t e r a c t i o n s . . . m a y + j u n e 1 9 9 7

• Establish a management review system to

regularly review the performance of individual

units and of the service center as a whole. This

recommendation was intended to improve the

integration of the management team and break

down the functional baronies.

• Assign a team of assistant managers to

(1) address problems arising from the reviews

under strict deadlines, (2) report back to the

whole management team, and (3) implement

and review any changes. Again, the aim of this

recommendation was to improve team working.

• Rotate assistant managers’ roles to provide

wider experience with and objectivity about

he center’s work and to encourage a common

outlook.

• Create cross-sectional teams at the clerical

level to examine lower-level process problems,

thereby promoting a greater awareness of each

unit’s problems at the level at which the work

gets done.

• Ensure that all changes be accredited within

the center with full and regular communication

on success rates and reviews.

• Pay attention to the location of assistant

managers and supervisors relative to their

units. Bank supervisors should work close to

those for whom they are responsible in order

to deal with contingencies as they arise.

• Arrange job swaps at the clerical level

between sections and between the center and

other units. The aim of this recommendation

was to improve the awareness of others’ work.

For example, knowing and experiencing

customer pressure at a branch between noon

and 2:00 p.m. suggests that telephoning during

this period is pointless unless the task is

urgent. Everyone saves time, and customer

service at the ‘front end’ is improved.

• Hold regular monthly meetings of a multi-

functional management team with guests

from other units whose agenda is to review

performance, service standards, and areas of

current concern and to instigate and review

activity across the units. Again, the purpose

was to improve communication at the highest

level and generate the feeling that the center’s

problems were shared by everyone.

T h e f o l l o w i n g i s a s u m m a r y o f t h e m a i n

r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s t h a t e m e r g e d f r o m t h e s t u d y .

S u m m a r y

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c a s e s t u d y

improvements that the bank is now consider-ing translating the idea to other sites.

The main virtue of ethnography in thiscontext was its abilityto portray the work asit was actually doneand experienced dailyby those doing it.This was preferable torelying on variousindices of perfor-mance. Importantly,the bank was also ableto gain sufficientfocus on the interde-pendencies of workand place them with-in their subculturalcontext, a context inwhich, before the rec-ommendations werecarried out, failed toprovide effective sup-port to the smoothworking of the inter-dependencies.

Despite the impor-tance of the fieldwork study, the appropriate presentation ofthe materials to those responsible for manag-ing the service center was key. Because thestudy concerned the work as it was actuallydone, the team was able to use presentationalmaterials that resonated with the practicalexperience of the managers, who needed to beconvinced of the nature of their problems.Once the researchers could see the managersthrough the fieldwork results, the managerscould then better see what sorts of thingsneeded to be changed and improved by bettercommunication. They came to “own” theproblems and take steps to share them as ameans of coming to an agreed solution.

Apart from the field work reports anddebriefings, which are the main methods of

ethnographic reportage, it became clear thatthe use of “what if ” scenario planning wasenhanced by the inclusion of the ethnograph-

er in the discussions.After all, he or shewas in a position toprovide insights intooption generation orto the implementa-tion of change. Inaddition, once astrategy had beendecided on, ethnog-raphy could providesenior and middlelevel management,indeed, all levels ofstaff, with“vignettes” thathelped ground pro-posed changes in theknowledge of theactual work. Oncemanagers began tosay, “I can relate tothat,” the wholedebate changedfrom “so what” to

“do what...and when.” Also important, espe-cially given the tone of urgency in much ofthe commercial world, allowing ethnogra-phers to work closely with an organization’smanager can mean that much productivedetail is assimilated at an early stage and theresults of the field work are interwoven withproposals for change.

Of course, none of this is perhaps so radi-cal, nor is it suggested that by these meansorganizational change can be guaranteed tobe more effective. There are too many factorsinvolved to make any method for effectingorganizational change a panacea. However,we believe that ethnography can make a sig-nificant contribution to managing organiza-tional change.

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Once a strategy had

been decided on, ethnography

could provide senior and

middle level management,

indeed, all levels of staff,

with “vignettes” that helped

ground proposed changes

in the knowledge of the

actual work. Once managers

began to say, “I can relate

to that,” the whole debate

changed from “so what” to

“do what...and when.”